There is ample evidence that basically everything that happened in season 1 was just tossed in to create a scary, confounding ambience, not tied together in any overarching manner. "Hey, I've got it - let's put a polar bear on this tropical island! THAT'LL really mess 'em up!", etc.

TPTB threw a lot of spaghetti at the wall. Some stuck, some didn't. They eventually realized they had to start connecting the strands, and you gotta know that they finally realized they had a serious problem. Too much spaghetti, too many strands.

They've been saying all along that the island isn't purgatory or hell, and this season they are saying that the alt-verse isn't, either. Both are "real", whatever that means. Yet all the theorizing and all the clues seem to be pointing to some sort of "spiritual/redemption/death-isn't-really-death/afterlife/morality/immortality/ghosts/religion-mixed-with-scifi kind of thing" (I don't even know what to call it...), and even if they don't want to call it heaven, hell, purgatory, or whatever, doesn't mean it's not. Remember if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Do you think TPTB have been deceptive about their ultimate meaning for the show?

I am certain of it, I trust David Fury

As much as people like to bandy Fury's quotes about, he was only there for the first season. And this one from the same interview never gets mentioned:
There was an exchange (pitched by J.J. when he and I broke the story) in an early draft of “Solitary” when Rousseau tells Sayid she had been part of a research team. Sayid asks her what they were researching. She replies: “Time.” The network saw that draft and asked us to remove the line. They were very timid about anything that smacked of Sci-Fi during the first season. I can only assume they’ve come around. I'm sure a lot of the S1 stuff was random; JJ and Darlton have said as much recently. But to say they lied because a few fan theories suggest an afterlife surprise ending isn't fair or even logical at this point, I'd say.

Anyway, they didn't just say it wasn't Purgatory; they said that idea would be stupid. To say there's no time travel and then have time travel is one thing. To completely slam an idea outright and then use it anyway, I don't see happening.

ETA: Oops, not the same interview, but a later Lostpedia one, where he said a lot of the same things as the Rolling Stone one

I am certain of it, I trust David Fury

David Fury is one of the best writers on TV. They should have never let him go.

Didn't they say that everything on the show was going to have scientific backing to it? At least theoretically.

Even if what the OP says is 100 percent accurate, so what?

1) The only thing that matters is what is in the text. Extra-textual comments should be disregarded. 2) Don't judge the text based on what you THINK is going to happen. See what actually appears on screen and THEN you can go back and make judgments about how it all fits together.

Just my 3 cents

If the losties turn out to be hooked up to some virtual reality machine, then the writers/producers would be vindicated about saying it isn't hell/purgetory/etc, not to mention proving correct their earlier comments about time travel.

But I think most fans would be disappointed. The writers are very good at making weird things seem real and keep this story compelling at the same time (hello? smoke monster?), so I trust them. They could pull that off, but I know a lot of folks would be mad.

TPTB threw a lot of spaghetti at the wall. Some stuck, some didn't....

Maybe somewhat true. I think of things like: the Dharma drops; the "security system" -- the vine like thing that grabbed Charlies in the Pilot; Jack relatively unscathed in the bamboo chutes many yards from the fuselage;. the little black orbs on the plane; Cindy ending up in the tail.

Some of these were continuty errors. Some of these are spaghetti strands that didn't stick. Some are ones that did stick, but have not been explained (or I forgot the explanation :redface:). Putting that aside, TPTB probably had a broad blueprint, but one that was very mallable. A possible illustration of that is as time went on DHARMA became less important and scientific explanations couldn't possibly suffice for all the strange phenomena. Was that part of the original plan all along? Who knows? (Anybody have any quotes from TPTB in this regard?)

... I think of things like: the Dharma drops; the "security system" -- the vine like thing that grabbed Charlies in the Pilot; Jack relatively unscathed in the bamboo chutes many yards from the fuselage;. the little black orbs on the plane; Cindy ending up in the tail.

Some of these were continuty errors. Some of these are spaghetti strands that didn't stick. Some are ones that did stick, but have not been explained...

and some of that was nothing more than the overactive imagination of fans. "the vine like thing that grabbed Charlies in the Pilot"? HUH?
:confused:

the little black orbs on the plane;
I missed this one. Can you get a screen shot of this?

Putting that aside, TPTB probably had a broad blueprint, but one that was very mallable. A possible illustration of that is as time went on DHARMA became less important and scientific explanations couldn't possibly suffice for all the strange phenomena. Was that part of the original plan all along? Who knows? (Anybody have any quotes from TPTB in this regard?)
This GQ article (http://www.gq.com/entertainment/movies-and-tv/200912/jj-abrams-flashforward-lost-star-trek) has a ton of interesting quotes about the creative process. It confirms some things that the most disappointed fans are saying, it shows that some stuff really was planned well in advance, and it explains why planning in so far in advance really isn't practical. I almost get the impression that declaring that everything is scientific was as much for the network as anything*. Of course, if you don't believe anything they said before, this shouldn't be any more believable.

I'll warn sensitive readers that it's riddled with F- and S-bombs, and if you haven't watched Fringe's first season but plan to, it has spoilers for that.

* this is another thing people forget: the story isn't written in a vacuum. Men in suits who don't even watch the show have input into where it goes.

I find it weird when people want so desperately for the story to be completely laid out since the Pilot. That just would have been impossible. Damon and Carlton have already admitted that it was only after the ending of Season 1 that they gathered with the other writers and went like: "OK, the show is a huge success now and we probably have a bunch of seasons to adress. Let's discuss some general details of the mythology in order to keep some consistency until we know exactly when the show is going to end."

Then, during the 3rd season, Damon and Carton negotiated with their ABC bosses and came up with a precise date to end the show. From this point on it was much easier for them to decide how to adress the loose ends in the mythology. I believe that's when the whole concept of Jacob VS MIB was detailed. As well as the whole time travel thing and its consequences.

Let's keep it real, people. It would've been impossible for them to concept a whole and detailed mythology without really knowing when (and if) the show was going to end.

Let's just say the TPTB did what they needed to do to get ABC to pick up the series, and to find an audience for the show. I was hooked right from the pilot. I loved the characters and the mystery surrounding the island, but I was worried. I didn't think that a show about people crashing on an island could last more than a year, maybe two years tops before it would turn to crap.

Look where we are now.

I've greatly enjoyed what we have been given. We've had some wonderful characters, some mind bending twists, and some excellent performances. But TPTB could have handled their long term plot better - see Babylon 5. Before a single episode was written, J. Michael Straczynski sat down and wrote a 5 season series bible that detailed the overall story, and the smaller seasonal archs. He also wrote all of the characters with a what he called a "trap door." If the actor had to leave the series, there was already a plot element in place which allowed the character to be written out cleanly AND there was a plan for which remaining character would take over that part of the plot so the overall story could still be told. Basically, he always knew where the plot was headed and how to get his characters there. And that was a network show from 10 years ago. It can be done!

Not impossible, it just takes careful planning - see Babylon 5. Before a single episode was written, J. Michael Straczynski sat down and wrote a 5 season series bible that detailed the overall story, and the smaller seasonal archs. He also wrote all of the characters with a what he called a "trap door." If the actor had to leave the series, there was already a plot element in place which allowed the character to be written out cleanly AND there was a plan for which remaining character would take over that part of the plot so the overall story could still be told. Basically, he always knew where the plot was headed and how to get his characters there.
There are significant differences in the shows, though. The bolded part above, for one. He knew how long his story was going to be (at most -- he was actually very lucky he got the full five years he wanted, in no small part to Ted Turner being a fan). Lost would always have to guess at how soon or late to reveal things.

Babylon 5 was also an expansive enough universe that, had it been a roaring success and the network demanded more seasons, it really could have gone on forever. My understanding is that he knew the mythology for centuries on either side of the series, not just the five years in which it primarily took place.

B5 didn't have a big, central mystery. Each season was mostly self-contained, and the show could have ended satisfactorily at just about any point. If some stuff didn't get told, it wouldn't spoil anything.

Not all of JMS's trapdoors would have worked on Lost. For example, Ivanova, central to the show from the beginning, was removed from the show with a single line of voiceover narration. They had to do this because they didn't know if the actress was returning or not at the time of filming. And it was very well done. That would never, ever fly on Lost. People are still screaming for Annie's story.

this link helps debunk David Fury a bit and gives way more credit to TPTB for having a plan

http://leethomson.blogspot.com/2005/10/lost-and-found.html

Here's how I look at it (you can look at it this way, too, if you're so inclined....):

TPTB would never tell anyone they were right, even if they figured out everything after the pilot. TPTB had to keep the mysteries as mysteries. Just imagine them saying "yeah, Boopoo29 was right-- it is purgatory" or "oh, wow, Tinkerfinker was correct, you won't ever see Walt again".... Who does this with this type of show? Wouldn't that spoil it for anyone else who hasn't figured out or just goes along and doesn't really try to figure it out? Of course they are going to deceive you and trick you and fib. The only other thing they could've done is said nothing at all. Maybe there are some people who wouldn't have minded that. Their aversion to come clean on their story, revealing the mysteries until they wanted to reveal them, is, well, how it works.

That's how I see it all.

I am certain of it, I trust David Fury

Yes, let's trust a disgruntled ex-employee who has so little class that he felt the need to bad mouth his former co-workers.

David Fury is one of the best writers on TV. They should have never let him go.

They didn't. He left, which was very telling. IMO, S1 is still Lost's strongest season. Every other season has had really good episodes, but wasn't as strong overall as S1.

To answer the OP, I believe you are right. They bit off more than they could chew. Now they're mad at the audience because we expect them to bring their "A" game, but they can't. The Candidate was more evidence (for me) that they're just dialing it in this season. They're not even trying.

As much as people like to bandy Fury's quotes about, he was only there for the first season. And this one from the same interview never gets mentioned [...]
I'd be perfectly willing to bet that thing about Rousseau's team studying time was just more spaghetti to throw on the wall...


during the 3rd season, Damon and Carton negotiated with their ABC bosses and came up with a precise date to end the show. From this point on it was much easier for them to decide how to adress the loose ends in the mythology. I believe that's when the whole concept of Jacob VS MIB was detailed. As well as the whole time travel thing and its consequences.
Considering they couldn't even plan a few episodes ahead to have Daniel's first appearance in the Orchid's past make sense in context later on...
And was it really supposed to be Locke's corpse, in that box? Notice how they were preparing the box while Smocke was right there, on the beach? How they were bothering to carry the corpse at all, for some reason? Or how they went to the cabin instead of going to the statue ("what lies in the shadow of the statue?" if you know he's there... ah, well, good thing someone left a completely unexplained hint to direct you there, huh?)?


Yes, let's trust a disgruntled ex-employee who has so little class that he felt the need to bad mouth his former co-workers.
Why assume he was disgruntled or lying?
Besides, when it comes to "class", Darlton isn't exactly exemplary ("no, we didn't get the dates wrong: it was all Rebecca Mader's fault!")...

To add more to this story, from a blog post:

http://quadrivium.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/has-lost-ever-had-a-master-plan/


Ain’t it Cool News (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41954) recently asked first season co-producer Jesse Alexander if the notion of time hopping the castaways to 1977 (a major story arc last season) was ever discussed during his tenure in the writer’s room. His answer? An emphatic “no.”

Even if what the OP says is 100 percent accurate, so what?
I have enjoyed the ride like with no other TV show. LOST will set a bar so high that it will be very hard to equal, most of all regarding TV and Internet interaction....

Also, you could consider TPTB also characters of the show (heck, they can pretend and even use that as a excuse)...And we know how many good liars are on the show.....Do we get mad at them? Do we feel disappointed? No. Because it is all part of the game.

I'd be perfectly willing to bet that thing about Rousseau's team studying time was just more spaghetti to throw on the wall...
If it fits a particular worldview, of course. At this point, I imagine if everything came together beautifully in one unified conclusion, some people would still say that.

At this point, I imagine if everything came together beautifully in one unified conclusion, some people would still say that.
I think it's pretty safe to say that precisely because it's been clear for years that there's no chance in hell everything will come together beautifully in one unified conclusion.


LOST will set a bar so high that it will be very hard to equal, most of all regarding TV and Internet interaction....
Lost didn't "set" anything, really... That "TV and internet interaction" thing? That occurs on a regular basis for Japanese TV series, for example. And you could find other examples in the States, like Arrested Development. Sure, it was a lot less successful, but the viewers' attention to details was actually rewarded.

Also, you could consider TPTB also characters of the show (heck, they can pretend and even use that as a excuse)...And we know how many good liars are on the show.....Do we get mad at them? Do we feel disappointed? No. Because it is all part of the game.No, because they're not real people, actually. I mean, if the writers were to actually kill somebody, for example, I wouldn't give them a pass because that was "in-character for them to do so" or anything. That's quite the bizarre argument.
Claiming you have the series' mysteries planned out when it's not the case is false advertising, simple as that. It shouldn't be considered "fair game".
Had they managed to improvise efficiently and tie the loose ends anyway, it wouldn't have been so bad, but that's not even the case...

LOST will set a bar so high that it will be very hard to equal, most of all regarding TV and Internet interaction....

I think herein lies the problem for the legacy of this show. Watched 10 or 20 years from now it will hold up about as well as Gilligan's island when taken out of the context of an online fanbase who are creative, intelligent and curious enough to patch the story with their observations and theories. With no Lage and other sites, kids then will just scratch there heads and wonder what kind of morons we all were to love this show.


Ok, let me be fair, the first two seasons will always hold up as some of the best television ever but the rest? See above

I think it's pretty safe to say that precisely because it's been clear for years that there's no chance in hell everything will come together beautifully in one unified conclusion.



Lost didn't "set" anything, really... That "TV and internet interaction" thing? That occurs on a regular basis for Japanese TV series, for example. And you could find other examples in the States, like Arrested Development. Sure, it was a lot less successful, but the viewers' attention to details was actually rewarded.

No, because they're not real people, actually. I mean, if the writers were to actually kill somebody, for example, I wouldn't give them a pass because that was "in-character for them to do so" or anything. That's quite the bizarre argument.
Claiming you have the series' mysteries planned out when it's not the case is false advertising, simple as that. It shouldn't be considered "fair game".
Had they managed to improvise efficiently and tie the loose ends anyway, it wouldn't have been so bad, but that's not even the case...

it is not false advertisement because you are not paying anything for their 'product'. It is free.
And I don't care about Anime. Lost was probably the first massive (world-wide)TV show in history to be discussed the way it has been on the Internet by not only nerdy teenage videogame players or whatever. Period. If the internet would have been what it is when the X-files were the hottest thing on earth, it would have gotten closer to what Lost is. The same goes for Twin Peaks.

And if you think that Lost hasn't set the difference or the bar higher or even gotten to be 'unique', I don't know what show you are still watching or even why you are still watching...Because you are, are you?

it is not false advertisement because you are not paying anything for their 'product'. It is free.
Video releases.

And I don't care about Anime.
OK? 'Doesn't make my argument any less valid though.

If the internet would have been what it is when the X-files were the hottest thing on earth, it would have gotten closer to what Lost is. The same goes for Twin Peaks.
Yup. It's not so much that Lost was exceptional. Just that it came later.

And if you think that Lost hasn't set the difference or the bar higher or even gotten to be 'unique', I don't know what show you are still watching or even why you are still watching...Because you are, are you?
Well, it is hilarious. And yes, I guess it's kinda "unique" in how overrated it is...

Video releases.


OK? 'Doesn't make my argument any less valid though.


Yup. It's not so much that Lost was exceptional. Just that it came later.


Well, it is hilarious. And yes, I guess it's kinda "unique" in how overrated it is...
man, from the way you speak, I can believe you have even taken your time every week for 6 years to watch this overrated, non exceptional, falsely advertised, non-japanese TV show?:confused:

some people can't do anything but sneer. the internet gives them an outlet to do so in perfect anonymity. they are best ignored.

man, from the way you speak, I can believe you have even taken your time every week for 6 years to watch this overrated, non exceptional, falsely advertised, non-japanese TV show?:confused:
80 hours or so over six years? That's manageable, really. I even watched some Uwe Boll movies on the side, imagine that!
I still have more than enough time to watch good stuff, so it's not a problem. Besides, it's actually enlightening to see (and discuss) both ends of the spectrum. More so than to bother with what sits in the tepid middle, one might argue...


some people can't do anything but sneer. the internet gives them an outlet to do so in perfect anonymity.
"Olivier Hague" happens to be my real name, "Coyote". ^^

80 hours or so over six years? That's manageable, really. I even watched some Uwe Boll movies on the side, imagine that!
I still have more than enough time to watch good stuff, so it's not a problem. Besides, it's actually enlightening to see (and discuss) both ends of the spectrum. More so than to bother with what sits in the tepid middle, one might argue...



"Olivier Hague" happens to be my real name, "Coyote". ^^
so Lost is not 'good stuff' for you?

so Lost is not 'good stuff' for you?
No, it's not "good stuff" at all, as far as I'm concerned. The actors and overall production values are up to par (I see a lot of criticism directed toward the CGI stuff, but I guess I'm forgiving for that kind of stuff, when it comes to TV shows), but the writing really isn't and the plot is a complete mess as a result.

Does it REALLY matter if the authors had a masterplan or if it was made up in the way?

Isn't the show extremely cool anyway? Isn't it unanimously one of the best shows ever made for television?

Again: does it matter, really?

The ONLY thing that matters to me is that the ending is satisfying character and mythology-wise. I don't need the authors to feed me like a baby with detailed info. I just want the whole ride to make sense in terms of story arch.

No, it's not "good stuff" at all, as far as I'm concerned. The actors and overall production values are up to par (I see a lot of criticism directed toward the CGI stuff, but I guess I'm forgiving for that kind of stuff, when it comes to TV shows), but the writing really isn't and the plot is a complete mess as a result.


you don't think its good and yet you come on a message board about lost and post. i guess that says a lot about you.

Does it REALLY matter if the authors had a masterplan or if it was made up in the way?
Well, it kinda does considering the writers have been claiming for years they knew the answers to their mysteries. If they didn't, that means they were lying to their audience. False advertising, basically.
But ignoring that for a moment, you're right: it doesn't really matter. There's nothing wrong about improvising, as long as it's done carefully. Unfortunately, in the case of Lost...

Isn't the show extremely cool anyway? Isn't it unanimously one of the best shows ever made for television?I'd answer "no" to both accounts, sorry...


you don't think its good and yet you come on a message board about lost and post.
Who said you had to like something to be allowed to talk about it?

Well, it kinda does considering the writers have been claiming for years they knew the answers to their mysteries. If they didn't, that means they were lying to their audience. False advertising, basically.
But ignoring that for a moment, you're right: it doesn't really matter. There's nothing wrong about improvising, as long as it's done carefully. Unfortunately, in the case of Lost...

I'd answer "no" to both accounts, sorry...



Who said you had to like something to be allowed to talk about it?


no one ever said you have to like something to post about it. i simply said it says something about you if you use your time watching a show you dislike and then use more time posting about a show you dislike and even more time talking about a show you dislake. it just says something about a person. either they really like the show even though they claim otherwise or they have a lot of free time, a lot.

Does it REALLY matter if the authors had a masterplan or if it was made up in the way?.

As a matter of principle, no. I've known for awhile that Darlton didn't have a plan from the beginning and I could care less

However, as the story and, more importantly the characters, have meandered and fallen apart it has disturbed me as a matter of practical storytelling.

I didn't mind that they made it up as they went along but I didn't want it to be painfully obvious that made it up as they went along and I think in season 6 it has been

If Darlton want to be infatuated with how clever they are and how they have had it all planned out all along then fine with me...we all have egos...but damn, bring the goods...at least enough to fake it

Why assume he was disgruntled or lying?

Well for one thing, when a person leaves a job, it is VERY poor form to whine and moan in public about it, as Fury did. Cut his former co-workers down, make fun of the show he was a part of. When you have a person like that, who is stupid or mean enough to go down that road, you want to be cautious and skeptical.

no one ever said you have to like something to post about it. i simply said it says something about you if you use your time watching a show you dislike and then use more time posting about a show you dislike and even more time talking about a show you dislake. it just says something about a person. either they really like the show even though they claim otherwise or they have a lot of free time, a lot.
Or they enjoy spotting inconsistencies in a plot, as they consider that a stimulating mental exercise.
Or they think failures may be as interesting as successes.
Or they like watching bad movies once in a while to laugh at them.
Or they're concerned about overrated shows and the causes / consequences of their success.
Or all of the above.

Yes yes, Oliver, good for you. Can we all stop talking about your motives for spending so much time on a show you don't think is good? I don't get why you are prolonging such a silly discussion. I doubt your need for attention requires it. So drop it, eh? Everyone just drop it. People come here to talk about the show. The end.

Well for one thing, when a person leaves a job, it is VERY poor form to whine and moan in public about it, as Fury did. Cut his former co-workers down, make fun of the show he was a part of.
Was it really what he was doing (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lostpedia_Interview:David_Fury)?

Lostpedia: Are you surprised that the characters you wrote for - Locke, Michael/Walt, Sayid and Hurley - have become even more important to the “Lost” mythology as the seasons go on?
Not surprised, but gratified. Damon and J.J. created vivid, original, characters, embodied by terrific actors. If I had some small part of securing the place of these characters in the firmament of the show’s mythology, color me happy.

[...]

Lostpedia: Who came up with the famous catchphrase “Don’t tell me what I can’t do”?
That would be The Talented Mr. Lindeloff [sic].
Can we all stop talking about your motives for spending so much time on a show you don't think is good?
Sure. I'm not the one who brought that up.

Sure. I'm not the one who brought that up.

What are you, five? That's right up there with "He started it." How about you actually drop it, by not responding to this or any other silly comments about your motives? Ok?
100%
Was it really what he was doing (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lostpedia_Interview:David_Fury)?

There was more than one interview where Fury yammered on about the writers not knowing anything. Fury upset a few people on the show, and one writer got so mad at him for spreading his nonsense that he wrote a long rebuttal. Of course, having class, that writer took his statement offline - but left us with a detailed look at the writing process on Lost all the same. It's earlier in the thread, and I believe it more than the schmoe who left the show and then said the writers were clueless.

Or they enjoy spotting inconsistencies in a plot, as they consider that a stimulating mental exercise.
Or they think failures may be as interesting as successes.
Or they like watching bad movies once in a while to laugh at them.
Or they're concerned about overrated shows and the causes / consequences of their success.
Or all of the above.

then you must have a lot of free time to do all this and watch good shows, like you said you do. most people only have the time to watch and talk about the shows they like. to put in the time and effort for six season of a show you don't like is quite the feet. not to mention the amount of time spent watching, talking and typing about said show you dislike.

i just wish i had that much free time on my hands.

What are you, five?
Old enough not to appreciate that or your reference to my "need for attention". I was merely explaining/defending myself, in both cases.

Fury upset a few people on the show, and one writer got so mad at him for spreading his nonsense that he wrote a long rebuttal. Of course, having class, that writer took his statement offline - but left us with a detailed look at the writing process on Lost all the same. It's earlier in the thread, and I believe it more than the schmoe who left the show and then said the writers were clueless.But why?
I mean, you're stating Fury's claims were "nonsense", but you don't really know that, do you? For all you know, he might be the one telling the truth, there. And if he is, what is wrong with that? He's not going along with the lie, and that's not classy of him?

Old enough not to appreciate that or your reference to my "need for attention". I was merely explaining/defending myself, in both cases.

Oh, I see, so when you agreed to stop making this all about you, you meant it, but now, ten minutes later, you feel the need to keep talking about it? STOP TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF. Ignore anything which mentions your motives. Don't even respond to what I am writing here. STICK TO THE POINT OF THE THREAD (this applies to Havok and everyone else too). Good day.

Well, it kinda does considering the writers have been claiming for years they knew the answers to their mysteries. If they didn't, that means they were lying to their audience. False advertising, basically.
But ignoring that for a moment, you're right: it doesn't really matter. There's nothing wrong about improvising, as long as it's done carefully. Unfortunately, in the case of Lost...
Who said you had to like something to be allowed to talk about it?

Dear Olivier,

Of course TPTB lied directly to you! I'm sure that all of the writers, producers, directors, actors, cameramen etc., spent over 18 hours a day working into the early hours of the morning for over 6 years - away from their families, did all of it just for fans like you! How Lucky you are Mr. Hague that this extremely talented group of people would dedicate so much of their time and energy just so you can be entertained for one hour a week. After all, you are doing them a tremendous favor! You watch their show even though you don't it like or appreciate it. And then you spread your love here on a Fan Website. Wow! What a sacrifice.

These were people, who in doing thier jobs, were trying to give the audience the best entertainment on television. The word here is GIVE.
The last time I checked, when someone tries to give you something nice, it is proper and customary to just say Thankyou.

Mrs. K. McDowell

aka thruthefog

Oh, I see, so when you agreed to stop making this all about you, you meant it, but now, ten minutes later, you feel the need to keep talking about it?
Er... Well, so do you, it seems? ^^;

STICK TO THE POINT OF THE THREAD (this applies to Havok and everyone else too). Good day.You mean, you're not going to reply to that other part of my message, about Fury?

You said you believed the rebuttal more that Fury's claims, apparently because you don't think he's trustworthy... because he's lying... because he's not trustworthy. I mean, that's the impression I got from your messages, anyway. Is there something more to it?
As for me, I'd believe Fury's claims over the rebuttal, based on the many inconsistencies I've seen on the show.


These were people, who in doing thier jobs, were trying to give the audience the best entertainment on television. The word here is GIVE.
The last time I checked, when someone tries to give you something nice, it is proper and customary to just say Thankyou.Er... It's a job. They're not Santa Claus.
I don't see why I should thank them for (I believe) lying to their audience and being careless with their show, especially considering the colossal exposure they got from that when other, more honest and careful writers would be more deserving.

Hi, Thru, I just Private messaged you. Great response. As much as I have been underwelmed this year, now I still have hope for a great conclusion that will make everything fall into place.
I thought one of the rules was not to keep posting the same idea over and over, and beating others over the head with it? Guess not.