Well then.....can't imagine with all the theories out there, that anyone guessed it would be MIB and his 'mother'.

Nice twist.

And now I can see the debates that will follow.....
Was this the plan from the start or did TPTB just wing it til now?

Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I was just satisfied with an answer.

Well then.....can't imagine with all the theories out there, that anyone guessed it would be MIB and his 'mother'.Totally! I would have bet my eye teeth (if I knew which teeth those were :34853_huh:) that it would be Rose and Bernard. At least I figure we won't be reading too many posts along the lines of "well, we all knew that, already!"

Well then.....can't imagine with all the theories out there, that anyone guessed it would be MIB and his 'mother'.I totally and completely did NOT see that one coming!

Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I was just satisfied with an answer.Again, totally and completely agree! If they planned it 2 weeks ago, I don't care, lol. It was nice to see it all come around. (Actually could have done without the 'reminder' of Jack/Kate/Locke scene from S1, as if we didn't remember Adam and Eve!)

Yes, it was good to get an answer. Nice scene, too, but calling a mother/son duo Adam and Eve makes me think tptb didn't have this worked out back in S1. Too strange, but then so was the whole epi, imo.

why did Jack said they have been dead for 50 years?

Also, I think this episode was supposed to take place in the year 23.

Well then.....can't imagine with all the theories out there, that anyone guessed it would be MIB and his 'mother'.

Nice twist.

And now I can see the debates that will follow.....
Was this the plan from the start or did TPTB just wing it til now?

Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I was just satisfied with an answer.

Obviously they were winging it. What a terrible episode.

Midichlorians, anyone?

Well then.....can't imagine with all the theories out there, that anyone guessed it would be MIB and his 'mother'.

Nice twist.

And now I can see the debates that will follow.....
Was this the plan from the start or did TPTB just wing it til now?

Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I was just satisfied with an answer.

LOL, well of course not!!! We only met MiB/Jacob's mother in this episode and MiB in the last episode of S5.;)

Regardless, I did like the answer, it was pretty consistent with most of the info we've been given so far.

I came to post what Fierro said. Shows that they didn't have it planned all along. And of we won't be hearing "we knew that all along" because it is impossible to guess something that the creators just pull out of thin air

why did Jack said they have been dead for 50 years?

I'm glad you brought this up Fierro because I certainly didn't want to!!:biggrin:

I totally and completely did NOT see that one coming!

Again, totally and completely agree! If they planned it 2 weeks ago, I don't care, lol. It was nice to see it all come around. (Actually could have done without the 'reminder' of Jack/Kate/Locke scene from S1, as if we didn't remember Adam and Eve!)

Seriously! Did they think we wouldn't be able to put it together!! :rolleye1:

why did Jack said they have been dead for 50 years?

Also, I think this episode was supposed to take place in the year 23.

He said, "at least 50 yrs".
And I wouldn't think Jack would be an authority on dating the bodies based on their clothing.

Obviously they were winging it. What a terrible episode.

Midichlorians, anyone?

Probably one of the 10 best ever. Pitch perfect.

He said, "at least 50 yrs".
And I wouldn't think Jack would be an authority on dating the bodies based on their clothing.

***mod edit*** It doesn't take an expert to tell the difference between 50 and 2000 year old corpses

Obviously they were winging it. What a terrible episode.

Midichlorians, anyone?

I came to post what Fierro said. Shows that they didn't have it planned all along. And of we won't be hearing "we knew that all along" because it is impossible to guess something that the creators just pull out of thin air

I really don't see how this proves they didn't have it planned all along - and I'm certainly not going to say that they did have it planned because honestly, we'll probably never know.

But are you guys thinking that because we didn't meet MIB and Jacob until S5 and their 'mother' tonight, that TPTB didn't have their characters planned out back in S1?
Personally I can't imagine that Jacob and MIB weren't part of the big picture from the start. But maybe that's just me. :shrug:
100%
***mod edit*** It doesn't take an expert to tell the difference between 50 and 2000 year old corpses

Well it certainly could point to the fact that they didn't have it planned, but again, I'm not certain Jack is qualified to be dating the bodies.

2000 years old? What am I missing.... you know that how exactly?

I don't think that Adam and Eve was the proof, but the stones and what they represent. And Hurley has the stones now! I believe that we will see the stones again.

***mod edit*** It doesn't take an expert to tell the difference between 50 and 2000 year old corpses

I think we can all agree that this Island has all kinds of bizarre characteristics. Couldn't the Island preserve items longer not having been exposed to "reality" all this time (think snowglobe)? It's quite possible that 2,000-year-old corpses would look like 50-year-old corpses. I'm not trying to convince you that I'm correct but simply making the point that both are equally possible.

Having said that, I get the feeling something was planned for Adam & Eve but not quite this. It seem that has happened a lot with the show, where a plot point is tweaked due to various outside factors (actors wanting to leave, writers' strike, etc.). Maybe Adam & Eve were meant to be similar in a mythological sense but the details were changed. Maybe they were originally meant to be a couple and Jacob was their son, and there was a whole father/son thing going on rather than Mother and brothers.

I do agree that we'll probably never know if or what they had planned at the beginning, but I'm giving them two more eps to show me they had some semblance of a plan.

As well as Jack dating the bodies as 50 years dead, they were also in seperate parts of the caves. They only came to be side by side because the Losties put them together when they moved into the caves.

Obviously they were winging it. What a terrible episode.

Midichlorians, anyone?

you're missing the point... look deeper than the surface plot, it all speaks to something greater, deeper!

I think we can all agree that this Island has all kinds of bizarre characteristics. Couldn't the Island preserve items longer not having been exposed to "reality" all this time (think snowglobe)? It's quite possible that 2,000-year-old corpses would look like 50-year-old corpses. I'm not trying to convince you that I'm correct but simply making the point that both are equally possible.

That is a possibility. But what else has it preserved? 15 year old crackers?

Adam and eve means a couple, not a mother and son.

As well as Jack dating the bodies as 50 years dead, they were also in seperate parts of the caves. They only came to be side by side because the Losties put them together when they moved into the caves.

Really? I thought they found the bodies together, with their hands intertwined? Which was why they made a point of showing Jacob place their hands together in this evening's episode.

I was a twist-calling machine when I was watching this episode. I called that MiB and the mom would be Adam and Eve right when the twins were born. I also knew she would give birth to them right when I noticed she was pregnant. I've got no idea how I knew either of those things.

That is a possibility. But what else has it preserved? 15 year old crackers?

I thought some of those journals from the Pearl station looked pretty good for being outside for several years. *shrugs*

I came to post what Fierro said. Shows that they didn't have it planned all along. And of we won't be hearing "we knew that all along" because it is impossible to guess something that the creators just pull out of thin air

Are you sure that's where they pulled it out of? ;)

Adam and eve means a couple, not a mother and son.

This. Having them now be mother and son can logically be concluded as a change to their original intent.

I thought some of those journals from the Pearl station looked pretty good for being outside for several years. *shrugs*

I never had noticed that. Now that you mention it the journals are a bit ridiculous too, considering how hard it rains there.

Adam and eve means a couple, not a mother and son.

Are you sure that's where they pulled it out of? ;)

This. Having them now be mother and son can logically be concluded as a change to their original intent.

Except that I think it was Locke who first dubbed them Adam and Eve. We all just assumed that they were a couple, we were never told in any fashion that, yes, they were indeed an Adam and Eve by definition.
It was more of a nickname than anything else.

Are you sure that's where they pulled it out of? ;)


I figured I should play it safe:angel:

Anyone good at mythology? Since our skeletons are not Adam and Eve they need better identification. The only thing I can come up with at this hour is Oedipus and I know that isn't right.

Really? I thought they found the bodies together, with their hands intertwined? Which was why they made a point of showing Jacob place their hands together in this evening's episode.

No, they were at least a couple metres apart, in seperate crannies of rock.

KATE: Who is he. How'd he get here?

JACK: I can't exactly perform an autopsy but there doesn't seem to be any major trauma to the bones. There's another one over here. Someone laid them to rest here.

But Adam and Eve are just the names the Losties gave them...just because they were male & female skeletons together. The Losties assumed (and you know what happens when you assume!) that they had died together and were thus a couple. I don't think from the "Adam & Eve" name you can conclude that Darlton came up w/ this storyline recently. I'm not saying they didn't, I'm just saying the Losties calling them "Adam and Eve" doesn't prove anything.

***mod edit***

Adam and eve means a couple, not a mother and son.


How would Locke, who named them Adam and Eve, have known their real relationship when he named them? He only made an asumption and he turned out to be wrong.

For them to be called "Adam and Eve" suggests parallels that don't exist. I don't see how they're at all like Adam and Eve in the Biblical sense. I guess that was a misnomer and a red herring.

I prefer this answer much more than it being Jack/Kate from the past or something.

why did Jack said they have been dead for 50 years? Jack's a spinal surgeon, not an archeologist.

Also, I think this episode was supposed to take place in the year 23.Hey, wow! Not being facetious, here, I'm really curious as to how you came up with such an exact date!

Adam and eve means a couple, not a mother and son.True, but how would the Losties have known that? All they saw were a male and a female skeleton. Fairly natural assumption, I guess -- if you found a male and a female skeleton alone in close proximity in a cave, you might make the assumption that they had been a couple.

Really? I thought they found the bodies together, with their hands intertwined? Which was why they made a point of showing Jacob place their hands together in this evening's episode.No...I just rewatched the scene. They were about ten feet apart.

And BTW, Jack's only suggestion of the age of the skeletons was that "it takes 40 or 50 years for clothing to degrade like this." Clearly, he's not speaking from any area of expertise, there.

How would Locke, who named them Adam and Eve, have known their real relationship when he named them? He only made an asumption and he turned out to be wrong.
So then this should be labeled as sloppy writing, shouldn't it? TPTB often referred to this point that Adam & Eve would always be their "proof" that they had a plan from the very beginning, once it was revealed who they were. But now that they were revealed to be Mother and Son, it leaves absolutely no hints from Season 1, of who these people were.

At the very least, TPTB could have attempted to make it appear they were writing in some clever foreshadowing by making them a couple, as Adam and Eve were. Otherwise, them making the point for Locke to suggest Adam and Eve has absolutely no reason to be in the script from a writing stand point. If Locke had said something along the lines of "Well clearly this pair loved each other", because they were holding hands, it'd foreshadow that these people had some sort of relationship to each other. But for the writers to make him suggest Adam and Eve, makes no sense at all.

And the black and white rocks in the bag have so little to do with their relationship, it also again, didn't foreshadow anything. Had it been Jacob and MIB lying there, then absolutely the writers could have a "Ha, Told you so!" moment... but as it is now, it really adds to the debates of whether or not they had been making it up as they went along...

I was satisfied with the answer. The stones indicated that the writers had an idea where to take this thematically, but Jack assuming they were 50+ instead of close to 2000 years old tells me TPTB didn't have this planned all along after all.

And actually I'm not sure why a number of people (Damon and Carlton themselves included) find this to be so important? :confused: It's obvious that some advance planning is required to pull some of the stunts the showrunners do off - but generally I don't think I care particularly whether they came up with this when they were writing the episode, writing the original episode Adam & Eve appeared in or somewhere in between as long as it makes sense. We had so little original information on these two, that it was fairly difficult for the writers to mess up whenever they cared to elaborate on this (apart from the age thing).

Yeah, i agree it doesnt make sense that Adam and Eve is the MIB and his Step-Mother?

Adam and Eve and the black and white stones suggests a Male and female couple..perhaps who was involved in the origin of the Island

but MIB and his step mom? huh?

and like you said... Jack makes it clear that the clothing looks like it is 40 to 50 years old? why have such a profound statement for it to be false?


Ok...Time is different on the Island...ok fine...we can throw out the 40 to 50 year old clothing issue...fine.

but

MIB and his Step Mom??? as Adam and Eve?????? with black and white stones? a duality.

Im so hoping there is more to this.....

the only way for this to be a twist ..is if there is still more to it....

that maybe a fleeting thought that i had when I seen Step-Mom might be true?

that the MIB's and Jacob's Step-mom is somehow....Kate.

and the MIB body in the cave is either Locke or Jack....

then....THEN...we have our twist!

Kate - "I sure wouldnt want to be Eve"

No, they were at least a couple metres apart, in seperate crannies of rock.

KATE: Who is he. How'd he get here?

JACK: I can't exactly perform an autopsy but there doesn't seem to be any major trauma to the bones. There's another one over here. Someone laid them to rest here.

This. Although I guess we can ***mod edit*** that some wild boar came into the cave at some point and chewed one of the corpses to bits and pulled it 10 feet away huh? And why bother to have Jack say "they are 40 or 50 years old"? Why say that at all unless the writers were giving us a clue at the time? Did they have a different Adam and Eve in mind and then it didn't work due to going so "off-track" with the story?

Isn't there a difference between island time and real time? The losties were on the island a mere 100 plus days and that was years of realtime....

Did MIB and Jacob's Step-mom have a name?

imdb doesnt list one. The real mother was named Claudia.

so they refuse to give us the real names of both the MIB and the Step-mother.

that is telling me more and more...that they are someone we know already...

Kate and Locke ? or Kate and Jack?

So it's MIB and the fake mother that we only met this episode. It might as well have been Frogurt and the sheriff for all it means to us.

Well it's obvious to me that Mother's name is Eve and Nameless is ADAM!
So now we know his name!

why did Jack said they have been dead for 50 years?



If they were (sort of) immortal while alive, it makes some kinda sense that the decay of their bodies wouldn't be that of a normal person.

The only way we can know for sure that they had it 'planned' is if we see a screen shot of a white board from Season 1 or someone finds a date stamped copy of a story board that reveals this.

I suppose if we had been given hints about Jacob and the wayback story earlier it might have seemed more satisfying to some. If we had seen 'Mother' lurking about the island telling people to be 'good' or whatever. Jacob was introduced in Season 3 and I'm not sure when we first saw reference that the Smoke Monster could take human form.

The answer makes sense but the lead up to it doesn't.

Part of me was letdown with the revelation of Adam and Eve, but part of me was also delighted.
Think about this:
Season 1: Kate, Jack and Lcoke discover the bodies. At this point it is clearly a very early inhabitant of the island layed to rest.

I think most of us only started assuming that it was our main characters when talks of time travel started and was only reinforced when time travel was pretty much confirmed.

Sun & Jin, Desmond & Penny, Jack & Kate, Rose & Bernard etc. etc.

But the writers had the task of creating an island history to explain the most early inhabitants and I think they did an ok job.

However with all the soul sucking and body snatching going on, I still think we will get a twist.
Locke=MIB ~ Jack=Jacob ~ Kate=Claudia

I wish it had been someone we knew and cared about. It's one character who we just saw for the first time in this episode, and another who we met in last season's finale. Yawn.

And why bother to have Jack say "they are 40 or 50 years old"? Why say that at all unless the writers were giving us a clue at the time? Did they have a different Adam and Eve in mind and then it didn't work due to going so "off-track" with the story?

Completely agree. The writers control what the characters say, so to avoid this confusion when it's revealed who Adam and Eve are (because their dead bodies are obviously older than 50 years) back in S1 when Jack is asked how old the skeletons are, the writers could have made him say "I'm not sure, but I would guess a very long time." Completely leave out the comment about the clothing. That way the viewers have been introduced to TPTB's "proof that they knew what they were doing from the beginning" without being cornered into a specific timeframe.

The most disenchanting thing about this reveal for me, is that it was billed by the creators as the thing that "will show they were planning it all along," and yet the degree to which this actually seems to have been planned is minimal.

By comparison, what about the things that were less 'planned from the start' than this? It's the raging irrelevance of much of what we have been shown that grates me. I think the finale will be TPTB sitting naked in front of a camera for two hours, laughing hysterically and rubbing each other with money. The twist is, of course, that they had planned this from the start.

I tried rewatching the episode the producers mention here, but I still don't see anything that implies that the MIB and his evil stepmother are in the cave. Maybe they imply that the "nature of the timeline of the island" is different, but how can we have an anagram when we don't even know their names? The only 2 anagrams people found were the Mittelos "lost time" and the one about Amelia Earhart -

Question: "What is the meaning or significance of the two skeletons that Jack (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jack) and Kate (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Kate) found in the cave of season 1?"


CUSE: The answer to that question goes to the nature of the timeline of the island. We don't want to say too much about it, but there are a couple Easter eggs embedded in "Not in Portland (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Not_in_Portland)", one of which is an anagram that actually sheds some light on the skeletons and hints at a larger mythological mystery that will start to unfold later in the season.

LINDELOF: There were certain things we knew from the very beginning. Independent of ever knowing when the end was going to be, we knew what it was going to be, and we wanted to start setting it up as early as season 1, or else people would think that we were making it up as we were going along. So the skeletons are the living -- or, I guess, slowly decomposing -- proof of that. When all is said and done, people are going to point to the skeletons and say, "That is proof that from the very beginning, they always knew that they were going to do this."

I think that quote is a pretty good indicator that Adam and Eve's identities got changed along the way. Cause I'd put money on the anagram they're referring to being Mittelos/LostTime which refers to time travel (the larger mythological mystery that started to unfold later in the season). But why would that shed some light on the skeletons being Jacob's mum and brother?

I think there is probably more going on here than we know yet. The frustrating part is that there are only 3 show hours left. At the very least this has us talking as I think someone alluded to similarly in another post (not sure if it was this thread).

Why the need for a literal "Adam and Eve" though? It is just a naming referring to 2 earlier people, and there still may be more to come. I like that this raises questions, but I am afraid we won't get all the answers we desire.

So then this should be labeled as sloppy writing, shouldn't it? TPTB often referred to this point that Adam & Eve would always be their "proof" that they had a plan from the very beginning, once it was revealed who they were. But now that they were revealed to be Mother and Son, it leaves absolutely no hints from Season 1, of who these people were.But why would there have had to have been hints in S1 for it to not to have been "sloppy writing?" The only reason there would have had to have been such hints would be if TPTB had intended for us to figure out who Adam and Eve were. It was we fans ourselves who took up that task; nobody ever told us to. But the presence of the bodies in S1 and in S6 ties it together. And more than that, the presence of the black and white stones does so, since they've been a recurring motif since S1.

Actually, while I won't suggest that I'm expert enough to label it good or bad writing (I will say that I liked it), I'll suggest that it was successful writing, in that it did what the writers have always sought to do -- mislead the viewer without actually lying. Damon and Carlton have said that their favorite device is to have a character provide exposition, but for that exposition to turn out to be wrong. If I can say I caught on to anything about this show early on, it was this point -- I always found myself asking "Yes, but how would that character know this? Why should I assume he/she is correct?" For instance, why should we have assumed anything from Locke having called the bodies "Adam and Eve?" How many other things was Locke wrong about throughout this story?'

By the way, the idea of not giving the characters names is a standard writing device called "alienation." The intent is to keep the viewer from being able to identify with the character, to keep us from getting to familiar with him/her and so, liking him/her. In this case, I'd say it worked. Most viewers thought MiB was the bad guy. I've seen this technique applied to entire shows in which none of the characters have names, but never in this way in which all but a few aren't given names. I'd say if anything that it worked better, here, since by comparison with all of the other named characters, the nameless MiB seemed even more menacing. Still not sure why they didn't reveal a name for him in this ep, though, since it would allow us to feel for him better. But I feel like we've gone for so long without a name that it would almost be meaningless to give him one, now.

This. Although I guess we can ***mod edit*** that some wild boar came into the cave at some point and chewed one of the corpses to bits and pulled it 10 feet away huh?Yeah, that part troubles me. Maybe MiB came and moved his own body or unMom's because he found it distasteful for them to be holding hands throughout eternity.

And why bother to have Jack say "they are 40 or 50 years old"? Why say that at all unless the writers were giving us a clue at the time?Another case of the inaccurate expositor. Jack didn't say the bodies were 40 or 50 years old, he just said it takes at least 40 or 50 years for clothing to decay like that. And again, I asked "why would Jack know that?" When he said there was no trauma to the bones, I believed him because a doctor would know. But in terms of his assigning a date to the bodies, I didn't believe him for a second. There are bodies in catacombs in the Ukraine (I've seen them) that have naturally mummified, and stayed preserved for hundreds of years without intervention from humans -- nobody tried to preserve them. And yet, some bodies that lay along side them in the same catacombs decayed normally (the Orthodox monks of the particular monastery I'm thinking of declared that the bodies that didn't decay were those of saints, who had attained salvation). So in such an unpredictable situation, why should anyone ever have believed any suggestion from Jack that he knew how old they were?

And as I said, TPTB have been telling us this right along -- don't believe exposition that you don't have a good reason to believe! So when they follow through on this, why is that a problem?

Just wanted to add regarding the "Adam & Eve" angle - I suppose it's completely understandable to expect them to have been a couple - but if you look at it more symbolically - then MIB and Mother are actually first of the significant characters that the Lost timeline started with - so I find it fitting in that aspect.

You can argue that there's still a lot of things that predate even them (all the Egyptian stuff), but for the show's purposes, they were the beginning of the conflict.

I prefer this answer much more than it being Jack/Kate from the past or something.I couldn't agree more!! I am so glad the skeletons didn't turn out to be Jack/Kate, Rose/Bernard, etc. I never thought they would be and I'm glad I got that right.

Adam and eve means a couple, not a mother and son.


The Losties were the ones to nickname them Adam and Eve , they had no way of knowing it was a mother and son...

why did Jack said they have been dead for 50 years?

Also, I think this episode was supposed to take place in the year 23.


I thought the same thing, but then it occured to me that Jack probably meant to say "at least 50 years."

Taken from Wikipedia transcript of House of the Rising Sun
JACK: Where'd that come from?
KATE: Any idea how long they've been here?
JACK: Long. It takes 40 or 50 years for clothing to degrade like this.

I thought the same thing, but then it occured to me that Jack probably meant to say "at least 50 years."

Taken from Wikipedia transcript of House of the Rising Sun
JACK: Where'd that come from?
KATE: Any idea how long they've been here?
JACK: Long. It takes 40 or 50 years for clothing to degrade like this.

I would agree but then again why even put a number like that on it? Did Darlton not expect us fanatics to nitpick things like this? Jack could have just said "very old" or if Darlton indeed knew who the skeletons were going to be could have had Jack say something much higher than 40-50 years old...

And as I said, TPTB have been telling us this right along -- don't believe exposition that you don't have a good reason to believe! So when they follow through on this, why is that a problem?
Ed, I am loving everything you have had to say on this episode. I agree with your whole long post, especially the parts about unreliable narrators, which is one of their favorite writing devices. Locke was especially a character we weren't supposed to be sure of for the first several seasons. And Jack too. In this case, they were both wrong.

I am satisfied with the reveal. It has always been quite clear to me that the skeletons were meant to be original island inhabitants, characters from the beginning of the island's story. The idea that it would be Jack and Kate was always hollow to me. I am good with this. The island's story reaches way back in time, and we've always known it did.
100%
I would agree but then again why even put a number like that on it? Did Darlton not expect us fanatics to nitpick things like this? Jack could have just said "very old" or if Darlton indeed knew who the skeletons were going to be could have had Jack say something much higher than 40-50 years old...
Well, this episode was SO early, before they had even hired Gregg as the continuity guy. Perhaps they really weren't expecting this level of nitpickery, if I can invent a word.

The '50 years' was in reference to the degredation of their clothes, and nothing to do with the rate of decay of their bodies.

'House of the Rising Sun':


[Shot of skeleton.]
KATE: Who is he. How'd he get here?
JACK: I can't exactly perform an autopsy but there doesn't seem to be any major trauma to the bones. There's another one over here. Someone laid them to rest here.
KATE: Who?
JACK: I don't know.
KATE: Where would they come from?
JACK: Didn't you guys shoot a polar bear last week?
KATE: Yeah.
JACK: Where'd that come from? [Shot of skeleton.]
KATE: Who is he. How'd he get here?
JACK: I can't exactly perform an autopsy but there doesn't seem to be any major trauma to the bones. There's another one over here. Someone laid them to rest here.
KATE: Who?
JACK: I don't know.
KATE: Where would they come from?
JACK: Didn't you guys shoot a polar bear last week?
KATE: Yeah.
JACK: Where'd that come from?
KATE: Any idea how long they've been here?
JACK: Long. It takes 40 or 50 years for clothing to degrade like this.
[Jack finds a pouch in the clothing.]
KATE: What is it?
[Jack dumps a white stone and a black stone into his palm.]
LOCKE: [approaching] Hello? Anybody there? Everyone all right?
JACK: [nodding] A few stings aside.
[Jack puts the stones back into the pouch, but we can't see what he does with the pouch.] [Jack finds a pouch in the clothing.]
KATE: What is it?
[Jack dumps a white stone and a black stone into his palm.]
LOCKE: [approaching] Hello? Anybody there? Everyone all right?
JACK: [nodding] A few stings aside.
[Jack puts the stones back into the pouch, but we can't see what he does with the pouch.]

(Actually could have done without the 'reminder' of Jack/Kate/Locke scene from S1, as if we didn't remember Adam and Eve!)

I thought the same thing when I saw that.

I like this Adam and Eve better that any of the "time traveling losties" theories.

This was a cop out to a question not many people cared about. Why answer the little questions when there are much bigger fish to fry.

However with all the soul sucking and body snatching going on, I still think we will get a twist.
Locke=MIB ~ Jack=Jacob ~ Kate=Claudia

Kate=Step Mom, Claire=Claudia

Well then.....can't imagine with all the theories out there, that anyone guessed it would be MIB and his 'mother'.

Nice twist.

And now I can see the debates that will follow.....
Was this the plan from the start or did TPTB just wing it til now?

Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I was just satisfied with an answer.

I think they showed season 1 to hammer home the point and for the people who didn't start with season 1. Mother was Eve who tempted MIB/Adam into wanting the forbidden fruit (use the power/light) and that unleashed the darkness.
Whether that's because Mother was both the protector and smokey and now that was split into towo roles or because smokey was born at that time, but that is when evil was brought into the island world that could threaten all existence. That's when the threat to humanity was born, when MIB went down the river.

This was a cop out to a question not many people cared about. Why answer the little questions when there are much bigger fish to fry.
I think the question of who the skeletons were was on every single Questions that Must Be Answered list I have read in the last year. It was on my list personally.

As for bigger fish, I think the questions of why the island is special, why there are candidates, what is the relationship between MiB and Smokey were all big ones that were addressed.

***mod edit*** It doesn't take an expert to tell the difference between 50 and 2000 year old corpses

The rules are a bit different on this island.

I think the question of who the skeletons were was on every single Questions that Must Be Answered list I have read in the last year. It was on my list personally.

Exactly! If who Adam and Eve were wasn't on your list, I don't think you've been asking the right questions, lol. (and by 'your' list, I mean your, in general, not you, specifically)

As for bigger fish, I think the questions of why the island is special, why there are candidates, what is the relationship between MiB and Smokey were all big ones that were addressed.

Again....Exactly! Thank you, jenny. :clapping:

With the season 1 flashbacks interspliced, it was obviously meant to be a "holy shit!" moment for the audience, but it could not have fallen more flat.

Again....Exactly! Thank you, jenny. :clapping:
Haha, you are welcome! I'm always here to bring the positive.

Now that you mention it the journals are a bit ridiculous too, considering how hard it rains there.Weren't they all enclosed in those plastic capsules you use at the bank drive-thru?


It might as well have been Frogurt and the sheriff for all it means to us.What a twist!


Actually, I think they were originally supposed to be Amelia Earhart & Copilot. But once the show got renewed they came up with some other plan, then a few months ago came up with this new one. Or maybe we still have a scene where Rose & Bernard kick out those old skeletons then die in the cave themselves...

... I think they were originally supposed to be Amelia Earhart & Copilot.

Fred Noonan and Amelia Earhart ... I agree that they had that ill-fated flight in mind when they dropped those anagram clues on us. And I still think that would have been pretty awesome. Booga-booga to you BoogaFrito.

The first thing that came in mind after seeing the epi was kate saying "i don't want to be Eve" and i think it makes perfect sense cause there's a big parrallel between Claudia/Claire and Kate/MIB's mom with Aaron being Jacob or MIB. And i think at this point she succeeded cause she left Aaron to his grand mother and came back to give him back to his mother.... "Eve" killed the real mother to take the two childs and it ended up very badly when MIB discovered the truth!;)

But they didn't choose to show this sentence from season 1....they show us Locke saying "our very own Adam & Eve" and jack taking the stones.....does that mean that Jack will be the new MIB and not the new Jacob?
Does that mean that Adam is MIB's name? And "Eve" is mother's name? Someone mentioned it earlier and i think it would be kinda cool!
Judging by the 40/50 years jack told us about, i think we still don't know everything!!!;)

I'm going to rewatch Not in Portland if there's a clue in it! maybe it's the womb thing...

I think I would have been more ok with this reveal IF the writers had simply said in Season 1 "you will eventually find out who they are." Instead of "this is proof we planned it all along!"

Having Adam and Eve somehow be characters we met and got to know in Season 1.... yes, I can see that as being planned.

But having them be people (one we just met 40 min earlier) we dont meet until the last bits of Season 5....

I dunno... there are a lot of characters you can create for the purpose of dying and being left (unburied) in a cave.

Maybe the more important piece is that there has been an emphasis on burying the dead, and these bodies were clearly not buried.

It was nice that it was a twist I wasn't expecting... but I don't buy it as being proof. If the finale puts the puzzle fairly together, then I find that to be more proof of planning than random bones.

I think John Locke's naming the skeletons Adam and Even ties in very well with this epsiode. Adam and Eve is a story that is familiar to the viewers so we have the motif in our head of garden of eden, forbidden fruit (knowledge), etc. Along comes an alternate mythology of a mother and 2 sons also struggling with the concealment or revelation of forbidden knowledge. The only complaint I would have would be that it is a little trite - a rewriting of an already established storyline (stealing from the tree of knowledge, stealing fire from the gods, opening Pandora's box, etc).

I think though that the message is ironically in step with the viewers unending search for Lost answers. We (humans) have this sense of entitlement when it comes to knowledge. How dare the writers not tell us what MIB's name is, how dare I be told not too eat the forbidden fruit, open Pandora's box, and so on. I deserve to know. I believe the word is Hubris. Very clever I think.

Adam and Eve is a story that is familiar to the viewers so we have the motif in our head of garden of eden, forbidden fruit (knowledge), etc. Along comes an alternate mythology of a mother and 2 sons also struggling with the concealment or revelation of forbidden knowledge.

Very well said! Especially the "forbidden knowledge". A lot of people were talking about the allegory of the cave in LOST, we also got philosophers from the enlightment like Rousseau. So the idea of having light in a cave was pretty good....a forbidden cave!