In my opinion, this episodes shows me that these guys can tie together anything to make the fans believe that they had this planned all along. I mean its kinda dumb, as much as I want to, to believe that they had this story planned all along, since the discovery of adam and eve. Its funny how much us, as true fans, want to buy into this with all the posts of Locke "looking into the heart of the island and it was beautiful" and thinking that they were meaning this all along. However, the reality seems to be much less contrived. I can just imagine the writers meeting where someone has a list of unanswered questions from S1-present and feeling the pressure from the fans to answer them whether there is a true answer or not. What do you guys think? Was it planned all along or are they just scrambling to answer these old questions?

I think the Locke/MiB thing was planned. That's about it.

I think the Locke/MiB thing was planned. That's about it.

I think a Smoke Monster wanting to escape the island to do his evil was planned since the very first day. You don't put a misterious monster on a misterious island for it to only knock down trees.

I've said it elsewhere, but I'll say it again.

The Damon and Carlton stance right now reminds me of a bad magician who does a great Pledge and a fantastic Turn, but can't actually pull off the Prestige. So he covers by saying that the end of the trick isn't important because everyone knows that the woman sawed in half goes back together in the end. And what kind of idiot goes to a magic show and expects to see a completed trick? And you didn't really come to see the trick anyway, just to see the pretty female assistant in the short skirt...and, hey, it's the journey not the destination.....and...

I think a Smoke Monster wanting to escape the island to do his evil was planned since the very first day. You don't put a misterious monster on a misterious island for it to only knock down trees.

I think you're right Fierro. I think their initial idea had to do with an evil presence trapped on the island. But I think a lot of fans get so tied into the details that the writers feel they will let them down if they do not answer every single questions whether it really makes sense to or not. Maybe I will be wrong and we will find out that these answers and this issue was so important that they needed to spend 45 minutes of the last three hours expaining it. I sure hope so!

I think you're right Fierro. I think their initial idea had to do with an evil presence trapped on the island. But I think a lot of fans get so tied into the details that the writers feel they will let them down if they do not answer every single questions whether it really makes sense to or not. Maybe I will be wrong and we will find out that these answers and this issue was so important that they needed to spend 45 minutes of the last three hours expaining it. I sure hope so!

what was the biggest mystery of the Pilot?;)

what was the biggest mystery of the Pilot?;)

3-way tie: Monster (which no one had actually seen yet, only heard), Polar Bear, Transmission.

Wasn't Eko supposed to have a big part in the end game? I think that he was probably going to be/become the Smoke Monstor and when the actor left they had to scramble and make it Locke - and completely change Jack to the Man of Faith (new Locke).

The Pilot's mystery came down to one question, stated by a character.

"Where are we?" All those other mysteries were smaller ones tied to the bigger question.

Personally, I would have loved, for the Smokey answer...that it actually was a pissed off giraffe.

You know what I'd like answered? Why does smokey make a mechanical clanking and grinding sound when he shows up?
In the pilot, when he 1st showed up, Rose said it sounded like something she'd heard before.

I dont know, who cares. Jacob has been the most important bloke on the show since s3 now it seems he doesn't know anything much about the island either, it's so stupid

I dont know, who cares. Jacob has been the most important bloke on the show since s3 now it seems he doesn't know anything much about the island either, it's so stupid
I think it's great. The all-powerful being everyone lives in awe of is clueless. That's a fantastic twist.

I beg to differ, but fair play

The Pilot's mystery came down to one question, stated by a character.

"Where are we?" All those other mysteries were smaller ones tied to the bigger question.

Personally, I would have loved, for the Smokey answer...that it actually was a pissed off giraffe.

Did all that happen in the pilot? I mean the transmission, the polar bear etc?


I really can't remember. But I think the fact that there was an invisible MONSTER (apparently huge) on the island was the most weird part.


I think all the rest came after....

Does anyone really think that Darlton, who negotiated a pre-determined end for the show (virtually unheard of in television) are scrambling to answer OUR questions? This show is playing out exactly the way they want.

I think it's great. The all-powerful being everyone lives in awe of is clueless. That's a fantastic twist.

That happened 2000 years ago. Then he did have no idea what the heck was going on. He had 2000 years of figuring things out. Besides, he was able to leave the island. I think he even had a pretty good scientific vision of the island and its mysteries....

That happened 2000 years ago. Then he did have no idea what the heck was going on. He had 2000 years of figuring things out. Besides, he was able to leave the island. I think he even had a pretty good scientific vision of the island and its mysteries....

Right, I mean Alpert went from simpleton sugar cane farmer to Dr. Alpert-Mittelsos Biosciences rep in the span of about 150 years.

Does anyone really think that Darlton, who negotiated a pre-determined end for the show (virtually unheard of in television) are scrambling to answer OUR questions? This show is playing out exactly the way they want.

Which is what makes it all the worse, IMO. They had a timeline. They had a chance to start tying things together, answering some questions (in a non-stupid or half-:censored: fashion) and bringing the story to some sort of sense. The puzzle should be 99.5% complete at this point, with only 3 episodes left to go in the entire series.

Instead we get an entire season of pointless filler crap (S5) and this season 6 chaotic nonsense, with no real sense of the puzzle being anywhere near complete, assuming it's not a complete Picasso. No one has a clue wtf is going on, to include Jacob, and he's been on the Island for two freakin' thousand years. It's beyond ridiculous at this point.

:twocents:

Which is what makes it all the worse, IMO. They had a timeline. They had a chance to start tying things together, answering some questions (in a non-stupid or half-:censored: fashion) and bringing the story to some sort of sense. The puzzle should be 99.5% complete at this point, with only 3 episodes left to go in the entire series.

Instead we get an entire season of pointless filler crap (S5) and this season 6 chaotic nonsense, with no real sense of the puzzle being anywhere near complete, assuming it's not a complete Picasso. No one has a clue wtf is going on, to include Jacob, and he's been on the Island for two freakin' thousand years. It's beyond ridiculous at this point.

:twocents:

sigh. I think some people should just stop watching the show right now to save some money on anger management....

I'd just like them to answer questions that they posed themselves. I'm not hung up on Henry Gale and the balloon, or who built the Statue. These questions I assume are just part of the aura of strange. I just want them to answer stuff they, themselves spent time developing. And questions, they themselves posed.

I'd just like them to answer questions that they posed themselves. I'm not hung up on Henry Gale and the balloon, or who built the Statue. These questions I assume are just part of the aura of strange. I just want them to answer stuff they, themselves spent time developing. And questions, they themselves posed.

Yeah, no kidding. I don't care how (pick a person in the past) lost an arm, but I do care about the central mysteries of the island. Why can't women conceive? What is the temple and why does the smoke monster protect it? Do the cast members actually have free will? What is the relationship between Jacob and the Others?

or what is the relationship of Jacob to the Dharma Initiative...

I think a Smoke Monster wanting to escape the island to do his evil was planned since the very first day.
Considering there was a point where the same monster could be used to "judge" people, I wouldn't be so sure. And "Cerberus" isn't exactly a name you associate with "evil trying to escape".

You don't put a misterious monster on a misterious island for it to only knock down trees.How does that tell you it was supposed to be evil and want to escape though?


Alpert went from simpleton sugar cane farmer to Dr. Alpert-Mittelsos Biosciences rep in the span of about 150 years.
No that he really seemed to know more about the island after all that...

I dont know, who cares. Jacob has been the most important bloke on the show since s3 now it seems he doesn't know anything much about the island either, it's so stupid

To be fair, that was Jacob way back when he first got his powers. Until then he was just a regular person, raised by Psycho Mom. By now he obviously has a good grasp of what is happening.

To me, some of the most disappointing moments were when it was clear that both Ben and Guyliner knew next to nothing about what was going on ... having been set up to be all-knowing master players.

The Others in general seemed to have little clue as to what they were doing and why. Yet early on they were portrayed as super-powerful agents of the Island. Very disappointing. And we really learned very little about Dharma too.

Considering there was a point where the same monster could be used to "judge" people, I wouldn't be so sure. And "Cerberus" isn't exactly a name you associate with "evil trying to escape"

The only people that called him cerberus was the one who wrote the BDM. They referred to a 'system'. So while it seems so, perhaps Smokie was not what they call Cerevberos.

And if it is....I beleive that his behaviour by killing people and being a menace on an island, add that the dog-like growling and the fact that it could split itself, and the presence of ghostly whispers and ghosts themselves, it is not that hard to see the similarities...

To me, some of the most disappointing moments were when it was clear that both Ben and Guyliner knew next to nothing about what was going on ... having been set up to be all-knowing master players.



"Guyliner"! :rotflmao2:

I've never heard that one! (We've all been watching Sawyer too much! We're coming up with better nicknames than he ever has!)

The only people that called him cerberus was the one who wrote the BDM. They referred to a 'system'.
Indeed. And there was that Rousseau line, too.
'Just pointing out that the nature of the Smoke Monster, as revealed recently, doesn't really jibe with the few hints that were given before that. So how you can be sure the writers knew from the beginning that the Smoke Monster was some evil entity trying to escape from the island is a bit of an enigma to me...

People who think there was some overall master plan are fooling themselves. The vast majority of shows get cancelled after 6 episodes. And every once and awhile a show breaks through and becomes popular. But I guarentee that the creators of this show were surprised at the shows success in the beginning. And they weren't thinking about where the show would be in a year let alone 6 or so seasons. Sure they had ideas here and there. But nothing was set in stone..

I simply will never believe they had this planned. And I think after the finale we will have proof of it. The show got away from them. And now they are trying to set it up in a way, as if the lack of answers was the whole point in the first place. That it was the ride we should be happy about. Noone has answers. Not even Jacob. To me it's the creators giving the fans who want things to actually make sense and be written in a cohesive way, the old middle finger. I'll watch the finale. I've come this far. But if my suspicions prove true with the finale. I will never waste another minute on any creative endeaver from these two people.

I wish they were scrambling to answer questions. But as it sits they aren't really answering anything. Just throwing a bunch of possible answers up in the air with no explanation so that we the viewers might be able to pull some of them together to make a complete story. As writers they have left themselves alot of outs.

Yeah, no kidding. I don't care how (pick a person in the past) lost an arm, but I do care about the central mysteries of the island. Why can't women conceive? What is the temple and why does the smoke monster protect it? Do the cast members actually have free will? What is the relationship between Jacob and the Others?

Pitman some people would say you are a jerk and even insult you for wanting those questions answered but I agree with you. I want the plotholes filled. I want a story that makes sense. Why couldn't Ben kill Widmore when we know he would do it? If they don't answer that then it derails so much of the show.

Indeed. And there was that Rousseau line, too.
'Just pointing out that the nature of the Smoke Monster, as revealed recently, doesn't really jibe with the few hints that were given before that. So how you can be sure the writers knew from the beginning that the Smoke Monster was some evil entity trying to escape from the island is a bit of an enigma to me...

Like I said, millions of posters around the boards came up with that theory early....So why do you think the runners of the show couldn't???? It is their job after all....They are writers and producers....

I think a Smoke Monster wanting to escape the island to do his evil was planned since the very first day. You don't put a misterious monster on a misterious island for it to only knock down trees.I specifically remember Season 1 writers stating that the Smoke Monster was defined as a defense mechanism, and its only purpose back then was to have a "mysterious danger" lurking around in the island. You are giving the creators WAY more credit than they deserve.

I wanted to respond to this Cerberus thing. I guess the Dharma guys, and I don't even know how they found the Island unless they were brought here at first by Jacob, felt they had to apply a meaning to the creature as we did. That is closely matches what Rousseau's fella said is coincidence, I guess....And It's also coincidence that it communes with a judgement god like Anubis in Egyptian glyphs. I guess that could all be attributed to Brother's capricious nature.....but wait, he "became" Smokey after the Egyptians were done...So there was Smoke before him. And he seems to do different things at different times.

The whole thing, if you apply too much....not even logic, but memory of events.... to it, is so shaky as to be ridiculous.

These two fella inherited the show, did they not? Sort of like someone taking over a franschise? THey saw that people liked all the mystery and took credit for that, and kept producing mysteries because it made everybody happy. Like Aesop's grasshopper, they were having fun today, and didn't plan for tomorrow. Sooner or later they had to pay off....but who cares? Today, I'm having fun. They just kept shoehorning in story lines...This show is weak? Put in something unexplained! Everybody'll focus on that...and then we can focus on "character" (But, with two and a half hours left--commercials, kiddies--did they finish the stories of OUR Losties? Nope. Forgotten in favour of these other people we don't even know. Same name, different people....right down to their back story) Make sure it's completely ambiguous, so that we can make up anything later, and then say that's what we meant.

This situation we find ourselves in is no different from politics...Just try to keep the plates spinning and hope that people stop focussing on you. Then, if you get caught---Lie Lie and Deny. " I have no knowledge of that". " I never explicitly said that." " I do not consider that act sex."

The really sad part is that this particular pair of grasshoppers get to fly off to a tropical island, while the ants still struggle to make the mortgage. We stuck it out, we did the work. They had an obligation to complete their task. All they have to say is that this is what we meant, book their tickets, and get gone.

Funny, every time I try to respond to this thread I go off on a tangent....I just wanted to answer the Logline question....I really think that George and Gracie have made a conscious decision NOT to scramble to answer anyone's questions. Not even their own.

I specifically remember Season 1 writers stating that the Smoke Monster was defined as a defense mechanism, and its only purpose back then was to have a "mysterious danger" lurking around in the island. You are giving the creators WAY more credit than they deserve.

I don't know the writers giving Smokey a job description, but I do remember Danielle's;)

And again, from their points of view, had never talked or heard about Jacob and the light, that black thing chasing and killing new comers does sound like a defense mechanism....doesn't it?;)

Like I said, millions of posters around the boards came up with that theory early....
Based on what?

I don't know the writers giving Smokey a job description, but I do remember Danielle's;)

And again, from their points of view, had never talked or heard about Jacob and the light, that black thing chasing and killing new comers does sound like a defense mechanism....doesn't it?;)Here you go:

"There was no mythology to speak of in place during the early episodes of the series. We were building it as we went along, discussing possibilities. Metaphorically, the monster was just the great unknown threat, the imminent danger around the corner that potentially haunts us all… Some thought of it as a monster of the id, much like in Forbidden Planet -- that maybe it appeared differently to everyone who saw it. The most tangible thought, as explained later by Rousseau, was that it functioned as a security system set up by the island’s creators/early residents… whatever we later decided the answer was. For Locke, clearly, the monster was the “soul” of the island that was responsible for his “miracle.”"

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lostpedia_Interview:David_Fury

What more proof do you need?

This also dispels the theory that Locke was able to see the magical light during Season 1. The original idea was that the monster would appear different to everybody, which is why Locke said it was beautiful. Mystery solved.

Here you go:

"There was no mythology to speak of in place during the early episodes of the series. We were building it as we went along, discussing possibilities. Metaphorically, the monster was just the great unknown threat, the imminent danger around the corner that potentially haunts us all… Some thought of it as a monster of the id, much like in Forbidden Planet -- that maybe it appeared differently to everyone who saw it. The most tangible thought, as explained later by Rousseau, was that it functioned as a security system set up by the island’s creators/early residents… whatever we later decided the answer was. For Locke, clearly, the monster was the “soul” of the island that was responsible for his “miracle.”"

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lostpedia_Interview:David_Fury

What more proof do you need?

This also dispels the theory that Locke was able to see the magical light during Season 1. The original idea was that the monster would appear different to everybody, which is why Locke said it was beautiful. Mystery solved.
if that makes you happier, go with it!
100%
Based on what?

what has driven most fans during these 6 years: Imagination, gut feeling, common sense, shared thoughts, discussions, etc.

I can't speak for every single one of them, though. But I can tell you that I personally had that idea and posted several times over the years. This was long before we knew that SMokie was a person.

if that makes you happier, go with it!It doesn't make me happier, it's just the truth. Stop grasping for straws, and stop making excuses for the piss poor handling by the producers.

what has driven most fans during these 6 years: Imagination.
And nothing from the show? Some theories...
Basically, I'm asking you why you think the writers knew from day one that the smoke monster was some evil entity trying to escape from the island. Is it just faith in the writers, or is there something else?

And nothing from the show? Some theories...
Basically, I'm asking you why you think the writers knew from day one that the smoke monster was some evil entity trying to escape from the island. Is it just faith in the writers, or is there something else?

It is an island lost in the middel of the ocean where there is a god-like, devil-like creature that stalks and kills its inhabitants. Then we have, very early on some comments from a crazy woman stating that 'it' killed them all and then that they were crazy and that she couldn't let her friends 'leave' the island because they could spread the sickness. At the time we didn't have anymore info about this sickness. But again, I clearly remember that me and many other posters came up with the idea that the black smoke was related to this sickness.

I don't know how long you have been on boards like this, but I have spent quite a long time reading other people's theories and sharing them. I know that these ideas were proposed a long time ago, for a fact.

So if we (who are just viewers) came to that conclusion, why do you think the writers of the show didn't also have something like that on their minds and were just leaving us very subtle and indirect clues about it??? That is why I don't get from you and other people who seem to have a very irrational anger towards the creators of the show...

if we (who are just viewers) came to that conclusion, why do you think the writers of the show didn't also have something like that on their minds
Some strange "logic" at work, there... ^^;
Just because some viewers came up with a theory, it doesn't mean the writers had necessarily thought about it as well. And it certainly isn't evidence that it's what they had in mind.

So, once again, what makes you think the writers knew from day one that the smoke monster was some evil entity trying to escape from the island?

you and other people who seem to have a very irrational anger towards the creators of the show...
"Irrational anger"? They're successful charlatans, that's all.

The show got away from them.

Perfect. That sums it up.

I think I am just a little sad that the show is almost over. I want to feel satisfied with how it ends and feel at least a little closure and understanding. I dont really need a jaw-dropping "a-ha" moment but I would like for the main storyline to, at last, be clear enough to be happy with it.

I think it's great. The all-powerful being everyone lives in awe of is clueless. That's a fantastic twist.

/agreed
-ik