Shouldn't they be studying Gabriel's book a bit more?

Also - Caroline (fish lady) asked Janis is they were "buying" what Gabriel was saying - are we assuming Gabriel is correct?

I still don't think so. I think Gabriel is being used. Why are we assuming the timeline Gabriel wants to happen is the "right" timeline? The timeline has been different since they were at the coffee stand and Gabriel said "you never say that" to Vreedee. If Olivia is "always" with Lloyd in Gabriel's timeline - Gabriel is off. Why not ask him if Charlie exist is the "correct" timeline - if not, shoot him in the head because next he will be trying to drown Charlie for the "greater good".

I think what Gabe saw all those times was the, perhaps, 'original' timeline.
Others, including Frost and Henninger (and maybe others) have manipulated lives, changing paths for their own ends.....maybe to save the World?......or not.

But who's to say, at this point, that what Gabe saw was 'original' and not someone else mucking about with timelines.

Agreed. I think what Gabe has seen are past iterations of the timeline but I think that this too is part of the plan. Gabe is the link now to the past and even though he states thigs now are "wrong" they will be "right" for the endgame, which sadly will be coming now all too quickly. It's a tragedy for entertainment history to see this story cut short. If I had even a small grasp of it I saw a deeply and well thought out creative tapestry that would have been wonderful to see described how it would have connected together in multiple closed loops of retrocausality. Circles within circles.

The only thing fictional about this series were the flashforwards as science is now learning that retrocausality and quantum entanglement are real. For example, cryptochrome in bird eyes is being thought to allow them to see the Earth's magnetic field for use in navigation (enabled by quantum entanglement) and photosynthesis is being linked to QE as well. John Cramer is currently doing experiments in retrocausality and backwards in time signaling so much of the show's "fiction" would have been very much talked about in discussions between fans and helped add to the buzz. Sadly, the network has no imagination for such leverage of timely science topics to draw people to the series as they are throwing it away. What were they thinking. :frown:

Has it been cancelled then?

As far as Gabriel goes, I agree with you all that I'm not convinced that just because he sees it as right, that it is right. He has seen many possibilities of futures. The question has always been whether that means that they are somehow destined to come true one way or the other, or that people make decisions that will make those futures come true.

I liked what you said about Charlie. If Olivia is always with Lloyd, then where did Charlie come from and how does she fit in? She certainly isn't Lloyd's daughter.

Update: I found the answer to my first question in the "Talk" thread. How disappointing.

Has it been cancelled then?

As far as Gabriel goes, I agree with you all that I'm not convinced that just because he sees it as right, that it is right. He has seen many possibilities of futures. The question has always been whether that means that they are somehow destined to come true one way or the other, or that people make decisions that will make those futures come true.

I liked what you said about Charlie. If Olivia is always with Lloyd, then where did Charlie come from and how does she fit in? She certainly isn't Lloyd's daughter.

Update: I found the answer to my first question in the "Talk" thread. How disappointing.

This iteration of history allows for the "creation" of both Charlie and Dylan (and perhaps the last one too) and we see how "somehow" fate is not trying to erase them from existence. I think fate has been "fooled" by the use of non-linear thinking and that retrocausality is "bilking" fate into allowing humanity a way to escape what is coming on Dec. 12, 1016.

Expertly written and well thought out series arcs are not given more than a season to get their feet under them and are chopped in half only to drive away viewers. And yet the network keeps this plan for series after series. What a waste of a fantastic potential and something I would have watched loyally for years and years. What a shame.

This show would have been a lot of enjoyment to watch how the PTB would have unveiled their endgame on us as I think I had a grip on the plan. I expected to see tragic theater as part of the mythos but not of this sort delivered by the network.

Agreed. I think what Gabe has seen are past iterations of the timeline but I think that this too is part of the plan. Gabe is the link now to the past and even though he states thigs now are "wrong" they will be "right" for the endgame, which sadly will be coming now all too quickly. It's a tragedy for entertainment history to see this story cut short. If I had even a small grasp of it I saw a deeply and well thought out creative tapestry that would have been wonderful to see described how it would have connected together in multiple closed loops of retrocausality. Circles within circles.

The only thing fictional about this series were the flashforwards as science is now learning that retrocausality and quantum entanglement are real. For example, cryptochrome in bird eyes is being thought to allow them to see the Earth's magnetic field for use in navigation (enabled by quantum entanglement) and photosynthesis is being linked to QE as well. John Cramer is currently doing experiments in retrocausality and backwards in time signaling so much of the show's "fiction" would have been very much talked about in discussions between fans and helped add to the buzz. Sadly, the network has no imagination for such leverage of timely science topics to draw people to the series as they are throwing it away. What were they thinking. :frown:

ITA! What Gabriel has seen are past iterations of the loop. The "right" timeline will be the one which saves the world in 2016.

I've got the FF wind knocked out of me today since I've learned of the cancellation. :sob: Now that Lost is just about over, FF would have inherited many of the fans who are interested in more than just superficial dumbed down plots.

Unfortunately protesting by FF fans will not be effective. :sadwalk:

I've got the FF wind knocked out of me today since I've learned of the cancellation. :sob: Now that Lost is just about over, FF would have inherited many of the fans who are interested in more than just superficial dumbed down plots.

Unfortunately protesting by FF fans will not be effective. :sadwalk:

There are rumors that Channel 5 in the UK is looking at picking it up. Channel 5 is apparently affiliated with SyFy. People are talking about the possibility of SyFy picking it up.

Also, I heard something about HBO owning FF?

Whatever the case may be, there's a page devoted to the subject on a certain social networking site (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Bring-FlashForward-Back/121212861233658).

There are rumors that Channel 5 in the UK is looking at picking it up. Channel 5 is apparently affiliated with SyFy. People are talking about the possibility of SyFy picking it up.

Also, I heard something about HBO owning FF?

Whatever the case may be, there's a page devoted to the subject on a certain social networking site (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#%21/pages/Bring-FlashForward-Back/121212861233658).
I hope it's the UK's channel 5 and SyFy that pick it up because I don't subscribe and won't subscribe toHBO.

I'd take the series however I could get it as long as it kept the storyline envisioned by the creators. I don't have HBO but would find a way to see it through relatives that would have HBO. I'd find a way. I'm glad to see you sticking around FS. Jessika Borsiczky said on Twitter that the last two episodes are like a movie and it should be a great sendoff.Obviously it will be bittersweet. I'll be saluting the hard work of all who worked on the show over the next two episodes.

Agreed. I think what Gabe has seen are past iterations of the timeline but I think that this too is part of the plan. Gabe is the link now to the past and even though he states thigs now are "wrong" they will be "right" for the endgame, which sadly will be coming now all too quickly. It's a tragedy for entertainment history to see this story cut short. If I had even a small grasp of it I saw a deeply and well thought out creative tapestry that would have been wonderful to see described how it would have connected together in multiple closed loops of retrocausality. Circles within circles.

The only thing fictional about this series were the flashforwards as science is now learning that retrocausality and quantum entanglement are real. For example, cryptochrome in bird eyes is being thought to allow them to see the Earth's magnetic field for use in navigation (enabled by quantum entanglement) and photosynthesis is being linked to QE as well. John Cramer is currently doing experiments in retrocausality and backwards in time signaling so much of the show's "fiction" would have been very much talked about in discussions between fans and helped add to the buzz. Sadly, the network has no imagination for such leverage of timely science topics to draw people to the series as they are throwing it away. What were they thinking. :frown:

I'm sure you noticed the sign on the homeless man. The end is the beginning is the end. Loops!

Too bad this great series has to end so soon. :frown: I should post something in the VIP section but you summed it up so eloquently.
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There are rumors that Channel 5 in the UK is looking at picking it up. Channel 5 is apparently affiliated with SyFy. People are talking about the possibility of SyFy picking it up.

Also, I heard something about HBO owning FF?

Whatever the case may be, there's a page devoted to the subject on a certain social networking site (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Bring-FlashForward-Back/121212861233658).

That would be so COOL! I think the SyFy channel would be perfect for FF. Thanks so much for posting this.

What would happen to the finale on ABC if another network picks up the series? I wouldn't want the story line to be cut short and reveal the "end".

I'm sure you noticed the sign on the homeless man. The end is the beginning is the end. Loops!

Too bad this great series has to end so soon. :frown: I should post something in the VIP section but you summed it up so eloquently.
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That would be so COOL! I think the SyFy channel would be perfect for FF. Thanks so much for posting this.

What would happen to the finale on ABC if another network picks up the series? I wouldn't want the story line to be cut short and reveal the "end".

Yes it's good of you to mention that clue and I did indeed take notice of it. I fully expect to see a kangaroo and oranges again soon.

I hope HBO picks it up because we don't get Syfy in Canada...we get "Space" but it's not the same, it pretty much just shows repeats of sci-fi tv and movies.

I hope HBO picks it up because we don't get Syfy in Canada...we get "Space" but it's not the same, it pretty much just shows repeats of sci-fi tv and movies.

Or miracle of miracles a groundswell too large for ABC to dismiss will rise up to say this chess game ain't over yet! Yes, I'm going through wild mood swings lately. :biggrin:

I am so PO'd that the network didn't give FF a chance. They put it in bad time spot and then broke it up so that people lost track of it. Here's hoping that some one with insight and intelligence picks it up for another outlet. :fingersx:

Syfy would certainly be a good thematic fit for FF, but I don't know if they have the kind of budget to sustain a show with high budget actors and fx like FF has. Maybe if they stopped making all those TV-movies about megashark and stuff, they could pool their money and actually produce a decent show.

Syfy would certainly be a good thematic fit for FF, but I don't know if they have the kind of budget to sustain a show with high budget actors and fx like FF has. Maybe if they stopped making all those TV-movies about megashark and stuff, they could pool their money and actually produce a decent show.


Oh I "liked " Sabretooth" it had Sawyer in it. (It was terrible)

Or miracle of miracles a groundswell too large for ABC to dismiss will rise up to say this chess game ain't over yet! Yes, I'm going through wild mood swings lately. :biggrin:

Well another show I was a big fan of (Firefly) at least got a feature length film (apparently might be more as well) based on their support after it was cancelled. Same with Arrested Development which has a movie in the works...why do all the good shows I like get cancelled!?

One thing I thought we could maybe organize through this site and "Save Flashforward" and the like is maybe we could all buy like 10 copies of the first season at the exact same time to launch its sales numbers through the roof...then like two weeks later everyone can just return them. Nobody loses any money and it looks like the show is a massive hit. Kind of deceptive but whatever :cool:

Agreed. I think what Gabe has seen are past iterations of the timeline but I think that this too is part of the plan. Gabe is the link now to the past and even though he states thigs now are "wrong" they will be "right" for the endgame, which sadly will be coming now all too quickly. It's a tragedy for entertainment history to see this story cut short. If I had even a small grasp of it I saw a deeply and well thought out creative tapestry that would have been wonderful to see described how it would have connected together in multiple closed loops of retrocausality. Circles within circles.

The only thing fictional about this series were the flashforwards as science is now learning that retrocausality and quantum entanglement are real. For example, cryptochrome in bird eyes is being thought to allow them to see the Earth's magnetic field for use in navigation (enabled by quantum entanglement) and photosynthesis is being linked to QE as well. John Cramer is currently doing experiments in retrocausality and backwards in time signaling so much of the show's "fiction" would have been very much talked about in discussions between fans and helped add to the buzz. Sadly, the network has no imagination for such leverage of timely science topics to draw people to the series as they are throwing it away. What were they thinking. :frown:

I was so stunned at the bad news that I forgot to ask what your ideas are regarding Gabe knowing Nhadra. He said that Nhadra was there at Raven River. Was she a patient or what? :confused:

Well another show I was a big fan of (Firefly) at least got a feature length film (apparently might be more as well) based on their support after it was cancelled. Same with Arrested Development which has a movie in the works...why do all the good shows I like get cancelled!?

One thing I thought we could maybe organize through this site and "Save Flashforward" and the like is maybe we could all buy like 10 copies of the first season at the exact same time to launch its sales numbers through the roof...then like two weeks later everyone can just return them. Nobody loses any money and it looks like the show is a massive hit. Kind of deceptive but whatever :cool:

Truther, do you know what utilitarianism is? :biggrin:

Hmm, sort of like letting the NAZI mass-murdering Rudolph Geyer free? Truther, I didn't take you as an "ends justifies the means" person, lol. See, this great show is having its effect on you, lol. ;)
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I was so stunned at the bad news that I forgot to ask what your ideas are regarding Gabe knowing Nhadra. He said that Nhadra was there at Raven River. Was she a patient or what? :confused:

Well, in re-watching the episode today Mark did ask who was running Raven river other than Dyson. Gabe said "Big Guy" (Hellinger) but did not mention Nhadra so we are led to believe she was a patient I suppose. Nhadra sure didn't seem to be in a "patient" role though in Hong Kong as she was trying to protect Dyson and that of course does not perfectly mesh. We have an interesting juxtaposition where Dyson kills some patients (Kent) but is befriended by others (Nhadra). Gabe is playing the victim role pretty well with "the early worm catches the bird" when hearing of Dyson's death in Arizona and in this episode where he mentions Dyson telling Gabe's mother that he'd take care of Gabe but "didn't do that very well" (paraphrasing).

Oh I "liked " Sabretooth" it had Sawyer in it. (It was terrible)

LOL
I actually randomly saw that when I was up late one night. I was like... hey... it's Josh. Man... Lost really saved his *** from b-movies! lol
Funnily enough, that movie also had Jonathan Rhys-Davies in it, who I love. Although I guess he fits in kind of well with b-movie crowd.

Well another show I was a big fan of (Firefly) at least got a feature length film (apparently might be more as well) based on their support after it was cancelled. Same with Arrested Development which has a movie in the works...why do all the good shows I like get cancelled!?

One thing I thought we could maybe organize through this site and "Save Flashforward" and the like is maybe we could all buy like 10 copies of the first season at the exact same time to launch its sales numbers through the roof...then like two weeks later everyone can just return them. Nobody loses any money and it looks like the show is a massive hit. Kind of deceptive but whatever :cool:

Oy... I'm hoping the Arrested Development movie gets scrapped. I loved the hell out of that show but I honestly think a movie version would be awful. Generally, I'm of the opinion that tv shows in to movies are bad ideas. Mostly because do to the nature of the movie, you either have to create a story that is completely out of continuity with the show, or make up some dumb self-contained side story that fits in to the continuity but ultimately feels pointless. Flashforward might only work if it were given a multi-part treatment or something.

Well, in re-watching the episode today Mark did ask who was running Raven river other than Dyson. Gabe said "Big Guy" (Hellinger) but did not mention Nhadra so we are led to believe she was a patient I suppose. Nhadra sure didn't seem to be in a "patient" role though in Hong Kong as she was trying to protect Dyson and that of course does not perfectly mesh. We have an interesting juxtaposition where Dyson kills some patients (Kent) but is befriended by others (Nhadra). Gabe is playing the victim role pretty well with "the early worm catches the bird" when hearing of Dyson's death in Arizona and in this episode where he mentions Dyson telling Gabe's mother that he'd take care of Gabe but "didn't do that very well" (paraphrasing).

Something nobody has yet commented on that I found pretty odd was when Mark and agents were raiding Hellinger's place, before Hellinger realized that Mark wasn't Gabriel, he said "welcome back in to the fold" to "Gabriel." Maybe he was just trying to be nice to a mental patient, but it almost sounded as if Gabriel had worked with Hellinger before on a higher level.

Something nobody has yet commented on that I found pretty odd was when Mark and agents were raiding Hellinger's place, before Hellinger realized that Mark wasn't Gabriel, he said "welcome back in to the fold" to "Gabriel." Maybe he was just trying to be nice to a mental patient, but it almost sounded as if Gabriel had worked with Hellinger before on a higher level.

We have two episodes to learn if Gabe is doing a "Keyser Soze" on the viewers. A friend mentioned KS to me a few weeks ago when I mentioned how I thought that Gabe was saying how things were "wrong" about present events when I took the new iteration as a way out of the trap for humanity. I was taking it as just Gabe wanting things the way he saw them before but you and my friend might be onto something that makes our current take on Gabe as a victim be instead a cover for a much bigger player. Are you thinking Gabe is really the "Big Guy" of the cabal? Then I wonder who Dyson's "Plan B" was from the chalkboard? Perhaps we'll never see that develop. I am quite anguished at losing the series despite its foibles. Overall the series has nothing to match it and it will be missed- a lot.

I don't know that I think he's the "big guy," but I think there is more to him than meets the eye, and that he might not be all that innocent and helpless as he seems.

Did the pictures with Gabe in them from Olivia's past remind anybody else of 12 Monkeys and the picture with Bruce Willace's character in WW1?

LOL
I actually randomly saw that when I was up late one night. I was like... hey... it's Josh. Man... Lost really saved his *** from b-movies! lol
Funnily enough, that movie also had Jonathan Rhys-Davies in it, who I love. Although I guess he fits in kind of well with b-movie crowd.



Oy... I'm hoping the Arrested Development movie gets scrapped. I loved the hell out of that show but I honestly think a movie version would be awful. Generally, I'm of the opinion that tv shows in to movies are bad ideas. Mostly because do to the nature of the movie, you either have to create a story that is completely out of continuity with the show, or make up some dumb self-contained side story that fits in to the continuity but ultimately feels pointless. Flashforward might only work if it were given a multi-part treatment or something.



Something nobody has yet commented on that I found pretty odd was when Mark and agents were raiding Hellinger's place, before Hellinger realized that Mark wasn't Gabriel, he said "welcome back in to the fold" to "Gabriel." Maybe he was just trying to be nice to a mental patient, but it almost sounded as if Gabriel had worked with Hellinger before on a higher level.

Perhaps Hellinger was financially supporting Gabriel at one time. Although Gabriel said that Frost promised his mother that he would take care of him but it wasn't good care. I think there is a connection between Gabriel and Hellinger but we don't have enough info yet to pin it down.

Nhadra was protecting Frost but from whom? Hellinger? Frost and Nhadra may have tried to break away from Hellinger and his organization. We did hear Hellinger tell Simon that at some point he would cut his losses. Also, Frost heard Hellinger tell Alda just about the same thing. If Hellinger didn't need what you could provide or were unwilling to cooperate, you would be eliminated. The "fish lady" told Janis that there is no getting out.

I still have a sense that Hellinger may not be at the top of the ladder.

I don't know that I think he's the "big guy," but I think there is more to him than meets the eye, and that he might not be all that innocent and helpless as he seems.

Did the pictures with Gabe in them from Olivia's past remind anybody else of 12 Monkeys and the picture with Bruce Willace's character in WW1?

That works pretty well. I had been thinking of Jack Torrance from "The Shining" as my visual allegory.

As to how to resolve the explanation of how Gabe would "just happen" to be time-stalking Olivia without it being coincidental (unlikely), it might be that using the knowledge that the cycles repeat someone might begin to set circumstances so that somehow Gabe would be near Olivia. Only by being near her would Gabe be able to observe Livy's movements in her life preceding her commitment to be with either Lloyd or Mark. So what we have as a component of the overall mythology is a meticulous plan by one faction to manipulate Olivia from her previous path traveled in history to another one. If Gabriel is only observing Olivia and not the one that is altering her future (from a past perspective), who might that be? I had thought that it would be fun to discover it was Mark from 2016 pulling the strings but the ansible would need to exist in the past as well as be more than a set of blueprints on the Mosaic wall in Mark's office. And it seems that 2016 Mark would be using other connections in the past (perhaps Stan) to transfer Mark from Boston to LA.

Syfy would certainly be a good thematic fit for FF, but I don't know if they have the kind of budget to sustain a show with high budget actors and fx like FF has. Maybe if they stopped making all those TV-movies about megashark and stuff, they could pool their money and actually produce a decent show.

I don't know, beema. They have shows like Caprica, Eureka, Warehouse 13, SGU, etc... all shows with pretty large budgets and fairly good casts. I think they could do it. I think it would be great if it were on SyFy.