I watched the episode with a couple of friends, and once it finished, the snap judgment was "So they were dead the whole time?" It was a long day of Lost, and many beers were consumed so I initially agreed. I absolutely loved the ending, but the idea that they were dead the whole time didn't sit well with me, and so I had to take some time to think about how I'd felt about the series as a whole. Fortunately, the aformentioned beers did mean that occasional bits of dialogue were missed, most notably a good chunk of the discussion between Christian and Jack with relation to when they died.

Looking for some answers, I came here. Wading through threads from folks who, like me, didn't get it, and through threads from folks who didn't want to get it, I finally started getting a picture of things clearly. And thankfully someone, somewhere had pointed to the Christian conversation. So after a re-watch, a few days, and reading a bunch of great deconstructions here I finally got a handle on it.

The conversation occurs in front of this window:

http://img715.imageshack.us/i/windowf.jpg/

Christian: Hey Kiddo.

Jack: Dad?

Christian: Hello Jack.

Jack: I don't understand. You died.

Christian: Yeah. Yes I did.

Jack: Then how are you here right now?

Christian (sighs): How are you here?

Jack: I died too.

Christian: It's okay. It's okay. It's okay son.

Jack: I love you Dad.

Christian: I love you too son.

Jack: Are you real?

Christian (chuckling): I sure hope so! Yeah I'm real, you're real, everything that's ever happened to you is real, all those people in the church, they're all real too.

Jack: They're all...they're all dead?

Christian: Everyone dies sometime kiddo. Some have been before you, some long after you.

Jack: Why are they all here now?

Christian: Well, there is no now here.

Jack: Where are we Dad?

Christian: This is a place that you all made together so that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time that you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone Jack. You needed all of them, and they needed all of you.

Jack: For what?

Christian: To remember, and to let go.

Jack: Kate, she said we were leaving.

Christian: No, not leaving. Moving on.

Jack: Where are we going?

Christian: Let's go find out.

Many of the obvious misunderstandings about when they died and why they are all there together are cleared up by reading the dialogue. However, I feel that there is a little more of clue in there that we are missing. When Christian says that they created "this place" he looks up and raises his hands. It strikes me as more of a 'this building we are standing' in, as opposed to the entirety of the sideways.

I was initially onboard with the idea that they created the sideways, but upon further rumination, I'm not so sure this is the case. Let's take a brief look at the evolution of the sideways.

The best magicians know that in order to pull off the biggest tricks, the setup must be impeccable, and the writers once again pull off an amazing misdirection in the space of one to two minutes. In LAX, we start off seeing, for pretty much the sixteenth time in the leadup, Juliet bloodied and banging on that damn bomb. The screen fades to white and we close in on clouds and the soothing sound of purring jet engines. We've immediately been forced into the incorrect mindset that the two events we have seen have a correlation, which, it turns out, they do not.

Following a where's Waldo of 'spot the change', we're dragged down into the murky depths of the Dharma-shark infested waters to see the Island on the bottom of the sea. This pretty much cements us for it until we zap back to the Island. We're sure that the bomb worked and they are in a new timeline! Oh..Island them. Okay...split timelines then. Those devious, clever....

In hindsight, I think we can all agree that the Oceanic 815 transport was representative of our characters' entry into the afterlife, with a few exceptions. These exceptions provide additional clues to the nature of the final reality in which we see our losties. The initial cluster of season 1 people that were on the plane had the strongest connection. There were only two married couples, Sun and Jin, and Rose and Bernard. Both sets were on the plane. Desmond was included on the plane because he was in the same situation as these people, but he was alone up until the opening of the hatch (Kelvin excluded...RIP buddy..hope you made it off the Island, though I doubt it) but once he was released, he forged his lasting connection with these people, hence his odd inclusion.

Shannon and Ana Lucia aren't on the plane because they don't have that connection with these people either. Both their lives were cut short and Shannon didn't really get involved with anyone except Sayid, while Ana Lucia was constantly at odds with all these people, and also met her end quickly. So while there are other folks out there, such as Libby, who were originally on the plane and do have some level of connections, they were basically dead in a few weeks or months in Island time. And the other folks who weren't on the original flight, such as Ben, Daniel, Juliet, and the list goes on, didn't have that as the key event in their lives, which is why they are tied to other people, and probably have another entry point in the afterlife. Michael not being on the plane is obvious, and by extension, Walt. Michael's spirit is still stuck on the island, and Walt is not tied to these people.

So what is the nature of the afterlife? Is it simply created by our losties, like many of us originally believed? That seems a bit of a conceit that our Losties are special and can only forge this world. So what I think they are presenting with their idea of the afterlife is this: This is an alternate state of being, a nirvana, a purgatory, a parallel dimension, call it what you want. It's not the final destination, if there even is such a thing, but it is an important waystation between our world and whatever the next stopping point is. When Christian speaks to Jack of the place he created, Kate holds the answer to what he means.

Kate: Do you know where we are?

Jack: This is where I was going to have my father's funeral. He died in Australia.

Kate: I'm sorry.

Jack: Why did you bring me here?

Kate: Because this is where you were going to have your father's funeral.

This is the place they created to find each other. This multi-denominational church that is their jumping off point into the next forever. Had this been a plane full of missionaries that had gone down, it likely would have been a different place. I think that the people that come to this waystation of the soul do have the ability to create certain parts of a reality for themselves. We see this on numerous levels throughout the sideways.

Once they debark the plane and begin to go about their separate ways, events occur that keep bringing them within orbit of each other, but as they sweep towards and away and back towards each other, they continually make new reconnections, bringing new souls along with them. Some of those souls (and I'm not naming any names or pointing any fingers here Locke and Sawyer), are pretty hardheaded and are going to take quite a few orbits before they finally wake up to what is going on. The sideways is the place to let go of the last bit of baggage that you had from the life before, so you can move on, enabling the strengths you gained through life's tribulations to be preserved, and allowing you to let go of whatever stumbling block impeded you.

We see small glimpses of this. Ana Lucia taking bribes. Eloise blaming herself over her actions with Daniel and still over-mothering by trying to keep him in the dark about things for as long as she can so she can fulfill his every wish. These people are not constructs. They are souls as well and they are just as real as the world they are inhabiting. David, and possibly Aaron could be exceptions to this. I'm almost certain David didn't exist, and Aaron likely had other people he made connections with beyond Kate and Claire throughout his life.

With these thoughts in mind, let's zip back to the church. As people start to regain their knowledge, they pretty much all know who the toughest sell is going to be. That old rascal Jack. Sure he got open minded at the end of his tour of duty on the island, but they know that's just how he is. So hey guys, since he's going to be last, why don't we all meet up at the church. That's the place they made. As their knowledge grew, they were all drawn to the only place that they knew the last member of their group could have his realization. But it was a place for all of them. All faiths represented, and you could almost feel a nod to science with the inclusion of the (wheel of life?) donkey wheel imagery. Maybe that's why they went with a donkey wheel in the first place.

So if the sideways has all this depth, and everyone ends up there anyways, what was the point of seasons 1-5? Furthermore, why is the Island sunk? Many folks before me have postulated that the whole idea of the danger of destroying the island is that it is the connection between this world and the sideways. A port of exit for those that are ready to move on to the next existence. A bridge, a BEAM if you will. I think this is dead on, no pun intended. Not everyone has to do time on the island. But the island has always been, and must always be protected, because it is the only connection between here and there. This has already been shown to us. The island has a copy in the sideways as well, but that copy is at the bottom of the sea, and the transmigration of the soul from earth to the sideways is obviously a one way trip.

In closing, I just want to say that I have always been a fan of this show, warts and all. I don't really think they could have finished it any better. They have painted a non-denominational, non-religious, all-inclusive afterlife that is whatever you bring with you (or at least a stepping stone), nothing more, nothing less. An existence beyond this world that, once realized, is nothing but light and love. To me, that's about as hopeful and beautiful a message as they get.

Just wanted to say cool find on the "multi-faith" window. Didn't catch that... Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism (wheel of karma), Taoism (yin yang), and not sure what that sixth one is?

I still have to think more about the rest of your theory... very very nice post tho :biggrin:

Brilliant Read Enigma420.
I personally did not think I'd be satisfied with any finale.

I was Wrong,...The was the greatest ending to the greatest story and will still live on forever

Thanks Lost

By reactivating the light, Jack made it possible for the Losties to move on...evidently they wouldn't have been able to without the "light". Where they traveled to is unknown...a new mystery box to be left unopened? Or not...I can think of all kinds of cool scenarios.

I do wonder how long ago the Losties began this eternal afterlife traveling together. The ankh makes me wonder if they started traveling together back in ancient times. Or does the ankh indicate that from this death forward...they will travel together in eternity. New meeting place each time...so many thoughts.

I think you are totally onto something here - and I would agree with your assessment completely. The sideways timeline for me was the path to the end that the characters were heading for. I didn't know what that end was - and I guess now I do.
The problem I have with the way the show ended was NOT with the resolution of the characters though. I did think that was done, and done well. My issue with the series is that I wanted answers to mysteries, to questions, to why things were as they were. Didn't get it. But we did character resolution :) so its not all bad

The problem I have with the way the show ended was NOT with the resolution of the characters though. I did think that was done, and done well. My issue with the series is that I wanted answers to mysteries, to questions, to why things were as they were. Didn't get it. But we did character resolution :) so its not all bad

I still think that a re-watch of the series, knowing the whole picture, will yield a lot more answers than we think right now. Excluding the sideways, we did get a lot of clearcut information on certain things, most notably how much MiB was interfering and how little Jacob was. Also seeing the nature of the island through Jack and Desmond, Jacob and Mother, and the scientific approach of the Dharma initiative, we have a lot more information with which to figure things out than prior to the last half of season 6.

I don't think all the answers are there though, because ultimately, it's a show about life, from the inception of a society, the losties, all the way through their tribulations, growth, and finally death, and we even got a peak into what's beyond that. But it's beyond our power as humans to be able to answer all those questions, and I think that's part of the message of the show too. After all what is religion and science but different perspectives of the same search for truth?

By reactivating the light, Jack made it possible for the Losties to move on...evidently they wouldn't have been able to without the "light". Where they traveled to is unknown...a new mystery box to be left unopened? Or not...I can think of all kinds of cool scenarios.

I do wonder how long ago the Losties began this eternal afterlife traveling together. The ankh makes me wonder if they started traveling together back in ancient times. Or does the ankh indicate that from this death forward...they will travel together in eternity. New meeting place each time...so many thoughts.

I sort of got a feeling from Kate's, "I've always been with you, Jack" that this was just one of many trips together. And, I feel the sideways is another one, on a different level of existence. My thought is they move on to yet a higher plane or place. If the light is life, death and rebirth, then certainly the cycle continues. I love the idea that Jack saving the light on the island is what allows them to move on. It makes it all relevant.

I sort of got a feeling from Kate's, "I've always been with you, Jack" that this was just one of many trips together. And, I feel the sideways is another one, on a different level of existence. My thought is they move on to yet a higher plane or place. If the light is life, death and rebirth, then certainly the cycle continues. I love the idea that Jack saving the light on the island is what allows them to move on. It makes it all relevant.

I do too. That was a major concern to me after I finished watching, but fortunately the rockin' posters here set me straight on that. I like the idea of the always been with you statement being linked to it all.

First off, great thoughts, but I'm still having some trouble completely accepting that the last ten minute sof the show was all spiritual. I guess this is a profound testament to the show--having it's audience debate or try to reconcile to the two most prominent themes in the series: science and faith.

I watched the finale with a room full of people and I would say that each of us had drastically different opinions on what it meant. One thought it was "bull", another thought it was a literal Christian purgatory, and so on. For me, I was immediately shocked, not thinking for about two minutes and just introspectively taking a moment for myself. It was over and I wasn't quite sure if what I just saw was satisfying.

Then the 'man of science' side kicked into me. At that point, I asked myself, what if Jughead really did create the sideways? Let us assume that it did and this whole separate reality exists, in which our characters and their love ones actually live, breathe and are as real as the island timeline. On top of that, add the mystical secrets of the world, like the island (the source of all life and death) and the fact that we know that consciousness can travel through spacetime (a universe in which time is a fourth spatial dimension). Combine these two aspects:

SCIENCE (the sideways that was created by variables who were unlocked from time and space) + FAITH (the idea of spiritual redemption and 'moving on') = our conclusion

So what is the conclusion? I would say that the sideways was a man-made scientifically implausible creation that was somehow created due to loopholes in spacetime and candidates acting as variables, but was spiritually utilized by our traveling consciousness' to move on more peacefully and joyfully with the people they love. Long story short, the sideways is a metaphysical, but manmade, meeting ground for our souls which gives us a second chance to reconnect with those who matter and move on in a more peaceful state. Theoretically, this sideways exists for every single one of us and it is up to us to be "enlightened" to "move on".

absolutely, ATGR. I think by using the light as their means of "travel" leaves it open-ended...on whether to use science or faith as an explanation. We still don't know what the light actually *is*...we are left to create our own interpretations. The more I think about this way of thinking...the more I love it.

First off, great thoughts, but I'm still having some trouble completely accepting that the last ten minute sof the show was all spiritual. I guess this is a profound testament to the show--having it's audience debate or try to reconcile to the two most prominent themes in the series: science and faith.

I watched the finale with a room full of people and I would say that each of us had drastically different opinions on what it meant. One thought it was "bull" (to be fair, he was a casual viewer and tends to think Grey's Anatomy is the best show ever), another thought it was a literal Christian purgatory, and so on. For me, I was immediately shocked, not thinking for about two minutes and just introspectively taking a moment for myself. It was over and I wasn't quite sure if what I just saw was satisfying.

Then the 'man of science' side kicked into me. At that point, I asked myself, what if Jughead really did create the sideways? Let us assume that it did and this whole separate reality exists, in which our characters and their love ones actually live, breathe and are as real as the island timeline. On top of that, add the mystical secrets of the world, like the island (the source of all life and death) and the fact that we know that consciousness can travel through spacetime (a universe in which time is a fourth spatial dimension). Combine these two aspects:

SCIENCE (the sideways that was created by variables who were unlocked from time and space) + FAITH (the idea of spiritual redemption and 'moving on') = our conclusion

So what is the conclusion? I would say that the sideways was a man-made scientifically implausible creation that was somehow created due to loopholes in spacetime and candidates acting as variables, but was spiritually utilized by our traveling consciousness' to move on more peacefully and joyfully with the people they love. Long story short, the sideways is a metaphysical, but manmade, meeting ground for our souls which gives us a second chance to reconnect with those who matter and move on in a more peaceful state. Theoretically, this sideways exists for every single one of us and it is up to us to be "enlightened" to "move on".

See I look at it more as the bomb was a method of closing the time loop. Cause and effect are hard to distinguish inside the loop, but there must be a distinct entry point and distinct exit point right? I look at the failsafe and the bomb as being the two ends of that loop. The bomb was set off, initiating the rollercoaster ride through the ages, and Dharma, prior to getting wiped out, took Faraday's notes and setup the failsafe to duplicate the conditions of the bomb when the time came.

But I look at the Island as something more meta than that. I'll speak straight to your science side on that. I basically consider the sideways a parallel universe that has echoes of ourselves in it until we die and are awakened. Then we move on, but it could again be just consciousness transfer to another set of dimensions. If you are a Lost fan and a science fan, I'm sure you've seen Michio Kaku's stuff. He's got a great episode of Science of the Impossible on parallel universe, at one point in the show arguing that there may be a duplicate universe separated from us by a dimension. I think the Island is the one way portal to that dimension. The Island destroyed in the sideways indicates that there is no going back, but also suggests that maybe at one point there was a link.

And I think their ultimate message was a synthesis. Like I said earlier. What is religion and science other than differing perspectives on a search for truth. That's not to say they both can't be corrupted. That too was addressed in the show. But the source of those things, how they came to be. It was just people trying to explain a world they didn't understand. Religion and Science are simply the two strongest competing philosophies. There are as many commonalities amongst the tenets of religion and the findings of science as there are differences.

But I look at the Island as something more meta than that. I'll speak straight to your science side on that. I basically consider the sideways a parallel universe that has echos of ourselves in it until we die and are awakened. Then we move on, but it could again be just consciousness transfer to another set of dimensions. If you are a Lost fan and a science fan, I'm sure you've seen Michio Kaku's stuff. He's got a great episode of Science of the Impossible on parallel universe, at one point in the show arguing that there may be a duplicate universe separated from us by a dimension. I think the Island is the one way portal to that dimension. The Island destroyed in the sideways indicates that there is no going back, but also suggests that maybe at one point there was a link.

And I think their ultimate message was a synthesis. Like I said earlier. What is religion and science other than differing perspectives on a search for truth. That's not to say they both can't be corrupted. That too was addressed in the show. But the source of those things, how they came to be. It was just people trying to explain a world they didn't understand. Religion and Science are simply the two strongest competing philosophies. There are as many commonalities amongst the tenets of religion and the findings of science as there are differences.

I like the idea that the island is some sort of meta stepping stone toward the ultimate goal of "letting go" and "moving on". Before, I always thought the importance of the island comes from the idea that it is the source of all creation (life death and rebirth), but in addition to that, the island being some sort of spiritual gateway is appealing. I have watched a lot of Kaku's stuff (mostly on YouTube) and much of what he talks about is the basis for my very young and fledgling interpretation. There's also this great Radiolab interview with physicists Brian Greene about multiverse, or the idea that every single scenario that is possible in our world does exist in this extraordinary large, but finite, universe. Here's the link if you want a good listen (http://www.sffaudio.com/?p=3072)

I wholeheartedly agree about the show being about, amongst many other things obviously, synthesis. I grew to love the finale as I realized that the last ten minutes (hell, the whole show) was a marriage of these two competing ideologies. When TPTB said that the ending was going to be up for itnerpretation and polarizing, I was worried. I thought it was going to end on a purposefully vague way without any connection to the larger themes on the show. The more and more I think about the finale, the more and more I believe it couldn't have ended any better.

...but fortunately the rockin' posters here set me straight on that.

I'd be interested in a link where this is being discussed.

I'd be interested in a link where this is being discussed.


This thread, I guess. :biggrin: There were a few threads around talking about variations of this idea.


And Goldrush:

I dig both Greene and the Multiverse idea...listening now. Thanks for the link

What I like to believe is understanding science is a religious experience because it reinforces MY belief in an intelligent and loving God. That's why I could all see the distinct contrast between science and faith on the show. Both sides only had it partly right, as evidenced through the DI, the Jack/Locke fued, etc. To gain true insight doesn't man abandoning your viewpoint, just embracing the other. That is what I think Jack accomplished at the end of the series. He had the faith to accomplish what I interpret to be a scientific feat (the re-sealing of the Light).

Here you go seaque:

http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=126743
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What I like to believe is understanding science is a religious experience because it reinforces MY belief in an intelligent and loving God. That's why I could all see the distinct contrast between science and faith on the show. Both sides only had it partly right, as evidenced through the DI, the Jack/Locke fued, etc. To gain true insight doesn't man abandoning your viewpoint, just embracing the other. That is what I think Jack accomplished at the end of the series. He had the faith to accomplish what I interpret to be a scientific feat (the re-sealing of the Light).

I think it's more a comment on the fallibility of man. We can not understand everything, I don't think we will ever be able to. I think the point the show is trying to make that both those ideas have their strengths and weaknesses. They come from fallible humans, and therefore the institutions themselves are fallible. In the modern age, at least, we will not answer life's biggest questions, even though we are trying to do so through science, religion, philosophy. The questions are biggger than us. We don't possess the language or the mindset to understand the nature of that which we can not see, and so religion fills that void. We also don't have the ability to understand by rationalization without careful observation, so we have science.
100%

I don't think all the answers are there though, because ultimately, it's a show about life, from the inception of a society, the losties, all the way through their tribulations, growth, and finally death, and we even got a peak into what's beyond that. But it's beyond our power as humans to be able to answer all those questions, and I think that's part of the message of the show too. After all what is religion and science but different perspectives of the same search for truth?

What a great post!! I'm speechless :)

What a great post!! I'm speechless :)

Thanks thaifly. I come from a bit of a religious background but my interests lie in science. I had to rationalize that dichotomy in myself first, so seeing it in Lost was a nice surprise. It's one of the reasons I've always loved the series.

This is where I'm hung up as well. Was the show suggesting that the alt-verse is a form of what happens for everyone, or was it consciously created by the Losties, and therefore an exception to the rule? When I first watched the episode, after scratching my head for a good 20 minutes or so (which is exactly where I hoped to be by the end of the show), I came to the conclusion that the alt-verse must be something created by Hurley as part of his way of doing things differently than Jacob. It also made sense through Ben's suggestion that he do what he does best and take care of people. Creating an alternate reality where his friends could be kept safe, even as they were dying in the island-verse, made sense to me.

Then, watching again, with this perspective, I started to think about what was going on with the Losties in this alt-verse. Some things, like Hurley being lucky, seemed to be a form of wish-fulfillment. Like they did have a say in how they lived. Locke had his love. Ben had his dad. Jack apparently had a better relationship with his dad, etc. The scene that really made me think I was on the right track was the scene where Sawyer went to Sun and Jin's hospital room. If the alt-verse was something created by the Losties, then the smirk on Jin's face at the idea that Sawyer was a cop takes on a whole new meaning because that would mean Sawyer basically chose to be a cop, probably just for the irony.

I've sense started leaning the other way, but am still torn, and I like that. I'm torn just like I am in life. I, too, come from a religious background, and while I'm not one of those Christians that denies the existence of dinosaurs and evolution, I'm also not going to take a theory like the big bang as something that against all odds created the universe we know in all of it's complexity without some sort of guiding hand, like blowing up paper and ink with dynamite and ending up with a dictionary.

This is where I'm hung up as well. Was the show suggesting that the alt-verse is a form of what happens for everyone, or was it consciously created by the Losties, and therefore an exception to the rule? When I first watched the episode, after scratching my head for a good 20 minutes or so (which is exactly where I hoped to be by the end of the show), I came to the conclusion that the alt-verse must be something created by Hurley as part of his way of doing things differently than Jacob. It also made sense through Ben's suggestion that he do what he does best and take care of people. Creating an alternate reality where his friends could be kept safe, even as they were dying in the island-verse, made sense to me.

Then, watching again, with this perspective, I started to think about what was going on with the Losties in this alt-verse. Some things, like Hurley being lucky, seemed to be a form of wish-fulfillment. Like they did have a say in how they lived. Locke had his love. Ben had his dad. Jack apparently had a better relationship with his dad, etc. The scene that really made me think I was on the right track was the scene where Sawyer went to Sun and Jin's hospital room. If the alt-verse was something created by the Losties, then the smirk on Jin's face at the idea that Sawyer was a cop takes on a whole new meaning because that would mean Sawyer basically chose to be a cop, probably just for the irony.


I'm thinking everyone who moves on goes through the Sideways stage... the castaways are not a special exception (We saw that Eloise, Daniel, Ethan, etc... were also there).

I think that everyone's Sideways existence (life circumstance) is custom designed to let them heal from old wounds, redeem past mistakes, and let go... it is also designed to some extent around your deepest yearnings (i guess this is part of the healing process). All this is to prepare a person to move on.

Additionally, there are some groups of souls that are connected in such a way that their Sideways is designed so they can find and help each other as they move on to the next stage. This was the case with the castaways.

I'm thinking everyone who moves on goes through the Sideways stage... the castaways are not a special exception (We saw that Eloise, Daniel, Ethan, etc... were also there).

I think that everyone's Sideways existence (life circumstance) is custom designed to let them heal from old wounds, redeem past mistakes, and let go... it is also designed to some extent around your deepest yearnings (i guess this is part of the healing process). All this is to prepare a person to move on.

Additionally, there are some groups of souls that are connected in such a way that their Sideways is designed so they can find and help each other as they move on to the next stage. This was the case with the castaways.

I totally buy this reasoning, but I feel the context is a bit weak. I think for the writers to purposefully mislead the audience into thinking the sideways was created by Jughead and then have us interpret that it is not is narrative trickery. I understand that, if this theory is all the way true, it was done for plot momentum and convenience, but to me, it somewhat weakens the integrity of the ending (which is part of the reason why I am so adamantly sticking to the whole "Jughead created the sideways timeline that now acts as a symbiosis between spirituality and science".

Again, the writers know this and they want us to be debating over whether or not the ending was all science, all faith, or a little bit of both. From that respect, the ending is a stroke of genius. If one day, Darlton comes out and says, "No, this is all a world Hurley created" or "Jughead had nothing to do with and it is a red herring" or "This world has nothing to do with multiverse or any other scientifit reasoning", I'd probably be gravely hurt.

I'm thinking everyone who moves on goes through the Sideways stage... the castaways are not a special exception (We saw that Eloise, Daniel, Ethan, etc... were also there).

I think that everyone's Sideways existence (life circumstance) is custom designed to let them heal from old wounds, redeem past mistakes, and let go... it is also designed to some extent around your deepest yearnings (i guess this is part of the healing process). All this is to prepare a person to move on.

Additionally, there are some groups of souls that are connected in such a way that their Sideways is designed so they can find and help each other as they move on to the next stage. This was the case with the castaways.

I've been thinking about this too. I wonder, what about the souls that are stuck on the island? Are there other areas on Earth that also hold 'bad' souls, or do they all come to the island?

By reactivating the light, Jack made it possible for the Losties to move on...evidently they wouldn't have been able to without the "light". Where they traveled to is unknown...a new mystery box to be left unopened? Or not...I can think of all kinds of cool scenarios.

I do wonder how long ago the Losties began this eternal afterlife traveling together. The ankh makes me wonder if they started traveling together back in ancient times. Or does the ankh indicate that from this death forward...they will travel together in eternity. New meeting place each time...so many thoughts.

The more I think about it, and the more I read here, I think that many of our key losties played a role in creating the sideways. I think we are meant to believe that Jughead created the sideways. Daniel says so. Why put it there otherwise? I think that Des' time traveling conscience allows them to begin to wake up and find eachother. Des alludes to this before he accidentally puts out the light. I believe that Jack's self-sacrifice in the name of his friends allows them to move on together, and allows our Losties to prove MIB wrong, which seems a key part of them fufilling their destinies with the island and with eachother. Finally, I think that the reign of Hurley has something to do with our church of light. Ben says something about how is reign can be about new rules. I think he even says something about bringing people together. So, the creation of the alt was literally a group effort, based largely on self-sacrifice for those they loved.

And, in that light, how could we have asked for a more poingant or powerful ending for our losties???

I think that the idea that Jughead created the Altverse is a red herring to throw us from what was actually taking place. I think we saw Jughead blow before we knew Jughead existed..ie the failsafe.

WHH, you dont get do overs...We got these words of wisdom from Jack to Des in the end.

My take was that we all go the sideways world to work out our issues and find those that meant the most to us and what we watched was our LOSTies adventures in sideways world. Maybe they created the church or maybe they just created their own existence in the world, until that point at which they are enlightened.

I like the theory that the light is a connection to alt verse..A little of the light is in all of us and if it went out, so would our path to the altverse and salvation.

I believe that Jack's self-sacrifice in the name of his friends allows them to move on together, and allows our Losties to prove MIB wrong, which seems a key part of them fufilling their destinies with the island and with each other.


I agree, Jack told Des that "this matters" at the cave entrance. And it seems that Jack had some sort of enlightenment and he knew that they couldn't move on without the light.

Maybe they created the church or maybe they just created their own existence in the world, until that point at which they are enlightened.


I like to think that the creation of the afterworld was a gift from the island to Jack and the Losties. A place that was made possible and one created out of their own wants/needs to achieve their final path to redemption.

I like to think that the creation of the afterworld was a gift from the island to Jack and the Losties. A place that was made possible and one created out of their own wants/needs to achieve their final path to redemption.


I like that idea, its just that we saw so many other people in that world, maybe the island created it for everyone. I think its important that Eloise asked Des if he was going to take Daniel. Eloise was aware, just as Ben is now..but neither is ready to move on..I think Ben said something like "I still have some things to work out".

Michael Emerson brought up a 12 to 14 minute bonus scene that's supposed to be on the Complete Lost Series Blu-Ray that apparently gives some insight to the time between when Hurley took over and the end. I wander if whether or not the alt-verse was by his design or not will be alluded to.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45259

I like that idea, its just that we saw so many other people in that world, maybe the island created it for everyone. I think its important that Eloise asked Des if he was going to take Daniel. Eloise was aware, just as Ben is now..but neither is ready to move on..I think Ben said something like "I still have some things to work out".

H-m-m-m...maybe the island did create it for everyone. I'm trying my best to keep the island as a character in this story. I so want to find evidence of the island having a hand in all of this.

Michael Emerson brought up a 12 to 14 minute bonus scene that's supposed to be on the Complete Lost Series Blu-Ray that apparently gives some insight to the time between when Hurley took over and the end. I wander if whether or not the alt-verse was by his design or not will be alluded to.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/45259

Too bad it's on the Blu-Ray series. Good for those that have Blu-Ray, though. I guess I'll have to be satisfied with watching the bonus on youtube. I'd love to see that Hurley had a hand in the afterworld events.

H-m-m-m...maybe the island did create it for everyone. I'm trying my best to keep the island as a character in this story. I so want to find evidence of the island having a hand in all of this.


We could look to the light as evidence. Desmond was hit with EM from Widmore and was able to travel to the FS, Juliet was also hit with a large dose of EM during the incident and was also able to travel to the FS (ie "it worked").

So there is a small amount of proof that at the very least the Island is connected to the FS, it could have created it or it could be the gateway to it.

The light is in all of us and leads us to the FS, if the island source went out, "our" light would have no where to travel or perhaps would go out as well thus the line from Widmore that we all ceast to exist or Eloise's warning of God help us all.

In this sense the island would be the "source" of all life.

H-m-m-m...maybe the island did create it for everyone. I'm trying my best to keep the island as a character in this story. I so want to find evidence of the island having a hand in all of this.



Too bad it's on the Blu-Ray series. Good for those that have Blu-Ray, though. I guess I'll have to be satisfied with watching the bonus on youtube. I'd love to see that Hurley had a hand in the afterworld events.


"On G4’s “Attack Of The Show” today, Michael Emerson described the unaired sequence that will appear on DVD and Blu-ray Aug. 24 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FLost-Complete-Collection-36pc-Blu-ray%2Fdp%2FB0036EH3WK%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Ddvd%26qid% 3D1264976438%26sr%3D1-4&tag=aintitcoolcoa-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325)http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=aintitcoolcoa-20&l=ur2&o=1:"

It's on both

It's on both

Yea! Thanks for the info.

I totally buy this reasoning, but I feel the context is a bit weak. I think for the writers to purposefully mislead the audience into thinking the sideways was created by Jughead and then have us interpret that it is not is narrative trickery. I understand that, if this theory is all the way true, it was done for plot momentum and convenience, but to me, it somewhat weakens the integrity of the ending (which is part of the reason why I am so adamantly sticking to the whole "Jughead created the sideways timeline that now acts as a symbiosis between spirituality and science".

Again, the writers know this and they want us to be debating over whether or not the ending was all science, all faith, or a little bit of both. From that respect, the ending is a stroke of genius. If one day, Darlton comes out and says, "No, this is all a world Hurley created" or "Jughead had nothing to do with and it is a red herring" or "This world has nothing to do with multiverse or any other scientifit reasoning", I'd probably be gravely hurt.

I see your point about Jughead, but these kinds of misdirections are what Lost is all about from the beginning - showing us one thing and then flipping it around on us. Plus I think they gave us enough clues to figure out that Jughead did not create the Sideways, and Christian's speech to Jack confirmed it. "this is the place that you created for yourselves together so that you could find one another..." That was definitely not their intention in detonating Jughead - the expected result of Jughead was that they would land in LAX and never have known eachother, so Christian must be talking about something else, something spiritual that they did after death together.

I think your science/faith view of the sideways is very cool, but to me it doesn't ring true to what we saw in The End.

I see your point about Jughead, but these kinds of misdirections are what Lost is all about from the beginning - showing us one thing and then flipping it around on us. Plus I think they gave us enough clues to figure out that Jughead did not create the Sideways, and Christian's speech to Jack confirmed it. "this is the place that you created for yourselves together so that you could find one another..." That was definitely not their intention in detonating Jughead - the expected result of Jughead was that they would land in LAX and never have known eachother, so Christian must be talking about something else, something spiritual that they did after death together.

I think your science/faith view of the sideways is very cool, but to me it doesn't ring true to what we saw in The End.

I'm quite used to, in fact I love, the misdirections that the writers employ on the show. It's what keeps the show fresh. What I can't accept is what I call "narrative trickery". They've used it once before in 'Ji Yeon', where Jin's sole purpose was to trick the audience into thinking he was still alive (other than that, his story had no real relevance whatsoever to the progression of the characters). To me, the sideways is the same deal. They gave us a full season that started at LA X (the point in which the lives of our 815ers would drastically change forever) and showed us how lives were profoundly different since the bomb went off (why focus on character traits when they were just plot devices to trick us all along?). My main point of contention is, if the sideways really turned out to just be a separate plane of existence with no relevance to what happened on the island, the progression in the sideways story line lacks any real weight; in other words, it didn't matter that Sun was shot in the stomach, Keamy beat up Sayid's brother, David exists, Helen wants to get married, etc.

Moreover, is this whole world just a replay for our characters to organically find each other? Was Desmond always supposed to unlock these people? What if he was never sent into that world by Widmore in the first place? Empirically, Desmond is the one and only catalyst for our castaways to wake up. Was he just a boost in the inevitable process? If they never found each other, would they have moved on? In essence, this metaphysical waiting room all seems so arbitrary, with the sole purpose in tricking the audience.

That's why, to me, it makes perfect sense (both narratively and thematically) that the sideways world was an effect of something that happened on the island (it doesn't even necessarily have to be Jughead). I interpreted the "place you've made for yourselves" line to mean Jughead, or at least a place that was created by the ramifications of some sort of physical decision. I'm not exactly sure if Christian, or any other ghosts/spirits, knows for sure what this metaphysical waiting room is. What they do know, however, is that once they are unlocked and can see in their previous life, they understand fully that this separate reality is not their original lives. Instead, with the power of an unlocked conscious, they find a way to move on. And hey, why not find the people you love and bring them along?

Long story short (and I feel like I'm beating this theory to death), the sideways was scientifically manmade that was utilized by the people who wake up as a stepping stone toward the inevitable path to solace.

I like it, great stuff. The idea that the Light gives one the means to travel to the next plane and find salvation makes perfect sense. The SW was definitely the place where one could resolve the very issues that had plagued them through life. Locke and Cooper: quite apart from reversing roles and guilt, might not it have also been a means of vengeance on the man who'd taken everything from him? Of retaining control?

Then Jack and David, giving Jack the chance to be the father he felt Christian hadn't been; Hurley's luck, Kate actually being innocent even as she ran.... it all fits so well.

And beautifully, once they were awakened and remembered their actual lives, what they'd done, how they'd lost and won, and once they connected again with those who'd meant the most to them, they were able to move ahead, wherever that might be.

I'd also love to think that JH did create the SW, in some way, just as it appeared initally too.

The best part, as ever, about LOST is the fact that we're still mulling over it, wondering, and talking. :)

I'm quite used to, in fact I love, the misdirections that the writers employ on the show. It's what keeps the show fresh. What I can't accept is what I call "narrative trickery". They've used it once before in 'Ji Yeon', where Jin's sole purpose was to trick the audience into thinking he was still alive (other than that, his story had no real relevance whatsoever to the progression of the characters). To me, the sideways is the same deal. They gave us a full season that started at LA X (the point in which the lives of our 815ers would drastically change forever) and showed us how lives were profoundly different since the bomb went off (why focus on character traits when they were just plot devices to trick us all along?). My main point of contention is, if the sideways really turned out to just be a separate plane of existence with no relevance to what happened on the island, the progression in the sideways story line lacks any real weight; in other words, it didn't matter that Sun was shot in the stomach, Keamy beat up Sayid's brother, David exists, Helen wants to get married, etc.

Moreover, is this whole world just a replay for our characters to organically find each other? Was Desmond always supposed to unlock these people? What if he was never sent into that world by Widmore in the first place? Empirically, Desmond is the one and only catalyst for our castaways to wake up. Was he just a boost in the inevitable process? If they never found each other, would they have moved on? In essence, this metaphysical waiting room all seems so arbitrary, with the sole purpose in tricking the audience.

That's why, to me, it makes perfect sense (both narratively and thematically) that the sideways world was an effect of something that happened on the island (it doesn't even necessarily have to be Jughead). I interpreted the "place you've made for yourselves" line to mean Jughead, or at least a place that was created by the ramifications of some sort of physical decision. I'm not exactly sure if Christian, or any other ghosts/spirits, knows for sure what this metaphysical waiting room is. What they do know, however, is that once they are unlocked and can see in their previous life, they understand fully that this separate reality is not their original lives. Instead, with the power of an unlocked conscious, they find a way to move on. And hey, why not find the people you love and bring them along?

Long story short (and I feel like I'm beating this theory to death), the sideways was scientifically manmade that was utilized by the people who wake up as a stepping stone toward the inevitable path to solace.

I see your point. And I think it's a legit interpretation. But it just doesn't ring true to me.

I thought that the purpose of the Sideways was illustrated beautifully throughout the season and especially in The End. It was a place where the Losties could find healing, reconciliation, grow past their mistakes and ultimately get ready to move on to the next state (wherever that is). Yes, the awakenings as to their Island-world existence was a huge part of that - accepting and letting go - but we saw how it worked and it made sense to me the way it was portrayed. Personally I found it very well done and emotionally satisfying. We saw how the Losties life circumstances in the Sideways were custom designed to help them work through their issues and find healing.

I'm not sure that everyone in the Sidways world was "real"... that is - Keamy, Helen, the Oceanic delivery mullet dude... it seems like they may have been "empty shells", not souls on the same journey in this particular sideways?? But Eloise and Daniel definitely seemed to be "real" - souls working through issues so they can move on.

All that to say, it seems that the Sideways was a universal experience that all souls-in-transition go through. This particular Sideways reality was custom designed for the Castaways and who knows how many others. But there are probably millions of other Sideways realities custom made for other groups of soul-mates, depending on what they need to move on together. This is what Christian meant when he said "this is the place you made together." He was referring to this particular sideways reality that is custom-designed to bring the Castaways together so they could remember and move on.

That's my take on it.

Edit: Also, I think if Sideways Desmond didn't awaken the Castaways, they would have eventually been awakened, he just sped up the process. I think the importance of Desmond's consciousness travel was more for Island-Desmond, so that he would be motivated to pull the cork.

I agree... How did Desmond get awakened in the Sideways? By Charlie. Charlie had already had visions of Claire, kind of like Jack's visions before finally fully awakening. Charlie didn't seem to fully awaken until the concert when he was with Claire and Aaron.

It makes me think of the stories about people who have had near-death experiences who see the "light" and their dead family members and such. Kind of fits in here because Charlie had this vision when he had a near death experience in the sideways by choking on the heroin baggie.