So Jacob brings people to the island and some eventually join the others, some are killed off (ie most of the tail section) and a few become loners (Danielle and claire). My question is. ...were the people That were allowed to become part of the others and not killed or exiled on Jacobs list as potential candidates? Was Cindy a candidate? Just curious....

It's random

I think it's the opposite. I think that the people who were taken and incorporated into Jacob's group were NOT candidates. They were "good" people, not broken like Jack and Hugo and the rest of the candidates. That's why they needed to be protected and taken into the fold. Just my thoughts...

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, about the Others makes any sense.

Why was the first mention of Jacob, Pickett saying "Shephard's not on Jacob's list?"

Why does Richard always ask Ben what Jacob's been saying, when later it's established that only Richard (and not Ben) can talk to Jacob?

What's up with the cabin? If we're supposed to believe it was MIB in there all along, why didn't Richard do his super-important Jacob-job and, like, tell Ben and the other Jacobians about it?

Why the elaborate plan to abduct Jack in order to do surgery on Ben? Jack asks Ben why he didn't simply leave the island to be treated. Ben's answer is that they can't leave the island ever since the 'sky turned purple.' This, however, happened immediately after they'd already abducted Jack.

Why do they dress up in their primitive island people costumes, since they are like super ninjas and aren't seen unless they want to be seen anyway?

How did they get to be super jungle ninjas in the first place, anyway?

How do they have, like, phone calls with the outside world just fine, even though:
- There is a jamming station underwater (oh right, it only jams some things and not others)
- There is a crazy time bubble around the island
- The French transmission is also jamming transmissions? (oh right, that also only jams some things and not others)

Since they can leave the island anytime they want, and they hate when people crash on the island, why don't they just politely round up people when they crash on the island and ferry them off the island? Why do they prefer to pointlessly wear fake beards and terrorize them?

Why do they keep their fake beards and beard glue in an otherwise deserted 'medical station' far away from their little suburban paradise?

Why does that 'medical station' have a secret door in the locker room that leads to a normal-looking exam room with an ultrasound machine?

None of this ever got explained. Screw 'what is the island;' the biggest mystery to me was what any of the non-survivor characters motivations, like, ever were.

I believe there never was a concrete explanation of the others because the writers only have a vague idea of who they are and what they do. You can tell they change their concept of the others on the fly, here's an example:

In season 3 we see Colleen's strange burial ceremony, and Locke being asked to stab his father in front of everyone. Now in Richard's story we find out the others are not nearly ancient enough to have developed customs like that.

All we know about the others is that they're brought there by Jacob, much like the oceanic 815 candidates. Some are candidates and some are just Jacob worshippers.


Why the elaborate plan to abduct Jack in order to do surgery on Ben? Jack asks Ben why he didn't simply leave the island to be treated. Ben's answer is that they can't leave the island ever since the 'sky turned purple.' This, however, happened immediately after they'd already abducted Jack.


Ben just doesn't like to leave the island, he never leaves while he's in charge. He even criticized Widmore for periodically leaving. Once he found out there was a spinal surgeon on the plane he thought Jack was brought by the island just for the operation.

Ben just doesn't like to leave the island, he never leaves while he's in charge. He even criticized Widmore for periodically leaving. Once he found out there was a spinal surgeon on the plane he thought Jack was brought by the island just for the operation.

If that were the character's motivation, wouldn't he have told Jack that instead of the nonsense about the 'sky turning purple'? Since he's clearly a smarmy, superior sort of guy, shouldn't it have gone something like:

Jack: Why didn't you just leave the island, since you people can come and go as you please?
Ben: Because, Jack, that would be the easy way out. I am faithful to the power of the island, and you being here is clearly my destiny, and blah blah blah.

Seems like the no-brainer way to write that dialog. But, instead, he blames the failsafe key, which seems to indicate that the writers intended the 'failsafe' event to really be the setup for all of Season 3's events, without giving much thought to exactly how that would work.

Ben just doesn't like to leave the island, he never leaves while he's in charge.

Given all the different passports he owns, all the foreign currency, and the fact that people in that hotel in Tunisia know him as a prior guest, it seems like he left on quite a few occasions, although it's true that we can't verify that it was specifically during his time as leader.

The Others were originally clearly supposed to be spooky indigenous island inhabitants who kept getting retconned as the plot demanded, particularly in S3 when they were desperate for more plot and plot twists to fill up a season that turned out to be about them.

After all is said and done I would say that it makes the most sense that the Others were "collateral survivors" who would get trapped on the island and were not either candidates or dangerous "diggers of holes" who might try to exploit the island's properties in ways that would jeopardize the light. Because they didn't have access to Jacob's full plans, they tended to view anyone he did not tell them to protect as potential dangers and act accordingly toward them. Richard tried to manage them as best he could, but Jacob wasn't fully up front with him either. My only guess as to why they moved into Dharmaville would involve Ben's Dharma connections, pregnancy obsession, and perhaps a ruse to keep the off-island Dharma folks (if there are any) from learning about the Purge. As to why Jack wasn't on Jacob's list, MiB I think was giving Ben some false info on that front.

Cardie

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, about the Others makes any sense.

Why was the first mention of Jacob, Pickett saying "Shephard's not on Jacob's list?"

Why does Richard always ask Ben what Jacob's been saying, when later it's established that only Richard (and not Ben) can talk to Jacob?

What's up with the cabin? If we're supposed to believe it was MIB in there all along, why didn't Richard do his super-important Jacob-job and, like, tell Ben and the other Jacobians about it?

Why the elaborate plan to abduct Jack in order to do surgery on Ben? Jack asks Ben why he didn't simply leave the island to be treated. Ben's answer is that they can't leave the island ever since the 'sky turned purple.' This, however, happened immediately after they'd already abducted Jack.

Why do they dress up in their primitive island people costumes, since they are like super ninjas and aren't seen unless they want to be seen anyway?

How did they get to be super jungle ninjas in the first place, anyway?

How do they have, like, phone calls with the outside world just fine, even though:
- There is a jamming station underwater (oh right, it only jams some things and not others)
- There is a crazy time bubble around the island
- The French transmission is also jamming transmissions? (oh right, that also only jams some things and not others)

Since they can leave the island anytime they want, and they hate when people crash on the island, why don't they just politely round up people when they crash on the island and ferry them off the island? Why do they prefer to pointlessly wear fake beards and terrorize them?

Why do they keep their fake beards and beard glue in an otherwise deserted 'medical station' far away from their little suburban paradise?

Why does that 'medical station' have a secret door in the locker room that leads to a normal-looking exam room with an ultrasound machine?

None of this ever got explained. Screw 'what is the island;' the biggest mystery to me was what any of the non-survivor characters motivations, like, ever were.

Begone, blasphemer, for questioning the unwavering perfection of the Lost writing crew! As penance, you shall sacrifice 23 ounces of your own urine to shrines of Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, about the Others makes any sense.

Why was the first mention of Jacob, Pickett saying "Shephard's not on Jacob's list?"

We learn later that Ben was operating a big sham - claiming to be following Jacob's lists and directives, when he was really following his own personal agenda and calling it Jacob's.

Why does Richard always ask Ben what Jacob's been saying, when later it's established that only Richard (and not Ben) can talk to Jacob?

See above - Ben bluffs that he does indeed receive direct instruction from Jacob, and in order to maintain the Jacob as all powerful scenario, Richard (like Widmore, and like Ben himself) must back off when Jacob's will is invoked.

Ben learned from Richard when Richard saved his life that simply saying "Jacob wants this" is enough to stop the questions. It's what Richard said to Widmore. It's what Ben says to Widmore when he saves Alex.

What's up with the cabin? If we're supposed to believe it was MIB in there all along, why didn't Richard do his super-important Jacob-job and, like, tell Ben and the other Jacobians about it?
It didn't always contain MIB - that happened after the ash line was broken.

Why the elaborate plan to abduct Jack in order to do surgery on Ben?

Ben said it himself - he needed Jack to want to do the surgery, and lacking social skills, felt that extreme manipulation was required. Sadly, had Ben any empathy at that point, he would have realized when 815 crashed that by helping the survivors, Jack would have INSISTED on "fixing" him.

Jack asks Ben why he didn't simply leave the island to be treated. Ben's answer is that they can't leave the island ever since the 'sky turned purple.' This, however, happened immediately after they'd already abducted Jack. See - Ben is a liar. That's what he does. He casually lied to Jack later that his mother taught him to read. Lying is like breathing for Ben - it's automatic. The whole "sky turned purple" thing is just another lie.

Why do they dress up in their primitive island people costumes, since they are like super ninjas and aren't seen unless they want to be seen anyway?
Just a guess - perhaps to make people underestimate their abilities.

How did they get to be super jungle ninjas in the first place, anyway?
What else are you going to do with eons on an Island? Practice, practice, practice.

How do they have, like, phone calls with the outside world just fine, even though:
- There is a jamming station underwater (oh right, it only jams some things and not others)
- There is a crazy time bubble around the island
- The French transmission is also jamming transmissions? (oh right, that also only jams some things and not others)

They, like, control the jamming devices. Satellite phones got around the time bubble issue - maybe their communication with the outside world was based on similar technology.

Since they can leave the island anytime they want, and they hate when people crash on the island, why don't they just politely round up people when they crash on the island and ferry them off the island? Why do they prefer to pointlessly wear fake beards and terrorize them?
Anyone who arrives does so because Jacob brought them there. Let the merriment begin.

Why do they keep their fake beards and beard glue in an otherwise deserted 'medical station' far away from their little suburban paradise?
Location, location, location.

Why does that 'medical station' have a secret door in the locker room that leads to a normal-looking exam room with an ultrasound machine? That equipment's expensive, you don't want just anyone fiddling around with it.

None of this ever got explained. Screw 'what is the island;' the biggest mystery to me was what any of the non-survivor characters motivations, like, ever were.

Actually, much of what you list was outright explained, while other bits are easily inferred.

We learn later that Ben was operating a big sham - claiming to be following Jacob's lists and directives, when he was really following his own personal agenda and calling it Jacob's.

I thought what we learned later was that Ben was being manipulated by the Monster, who was masquerading as Jacob?

See above - Ben bluffs that he does indeed receive direct instruction from Jacob, and in order to maintain the Jacob as all powerful scenario, Richard (like Widmore, and like Ben himself) must back off when Jacob's will is invoked.

Yeah, but since we know that Richard has actual, literal conversations with Jacob, why is Ben able to lie to him? To think that Jacob and Richard don't regularly share notes goes against everything we learned in Ab Aeterno. To think that Jacob would install Richard as his 'representative,' and then for Richard to fail so miserably at that job by letting Ben circumvent the will of Jacob, all because Ben claims to speak directly to Jacob even though Richard knows full well that Jacob doesn't talk to anyone but Richard? How does that make any sense?

Ben learned from Richard when Richard saved his life that simply saying "Jacob wants this" is enough to stop the questions. It's what Richard said to Widmore. It's what Ben says to Widmore when he saves Alex.

Yeah but again, Richard and Jacob are, like, Island BFFs. Before they decided to show onscreen the relationship between Richard and Jacob, it was possible to imagine that perhaps no one was able to speak directly to Jacob, and so Ben could lie to Richard. But, Richard knows for a fact that Jacob doesn't speak to Ben. He only speaks to Richard. The only way for this to make sense is if Jacob also lies to Richard. Which, actually, would go a long way in explaining why he's sad enough to wear eyeliner...

It didn't always contain MIB - that happened after the ash line was broken.

I'm pretty sure that's never even implied on the show. I interpreted Ilana's scene at the cabin as her saying that MIB had been trapped by the ash circle, and escaped when the ash line was broken. But, we don't know. I posit that's because the writers didn't know, either. We still don't even know how the ash worked at all.

Ben said it himself - he needed Jack to want to do the surgery, and lacking social skills, felt that extreme manipulation was required. Sadly, had Ben any empathy at that point, he would have realized when 815 crashed that by helping the survivors, Jack would have INSISTED on "fixing" him.

But, Ben leaves the island. That's shown. If his life was in jeopardy, why wouldn't he just go make an appointment at a real hospital? Why bother with a doctor who hates him, in a hospital room build in the 70s?

See - Ben is a liar. That's what he does. He casually lied to Jack later that his mother taught him to read. Lying is like breathing for Ben - it's automatic. The whole "sky turned purple" thing is just another lie.

So, Ben is a compulsive liar? That's never established in the show. What's established in the show is that Ben is a devious manipulator, who gets what he wants via lying. He doesn't lie just to lie. Supposedly, he lies to get what he wants. So, why would he lie about this? Also, several Others mention the 'sky turning purple' as the event that severed their ability to communicate with the outside world, and leave the island. If it's not true, then it makes very little sense for the Others to lie to each other about it, when no Lostaways are around to hear them, even.

Just a guess - perhaps to make people underestimate their abilities.

Yeah, but my point was, they have the ability not to be seen. Why bother with costumes at all? Why not just...stay out of sight?

Also, why would they invite their 'enemies' (read: hapless crash survivors who just want to get rescued) to underestimate their abilities? That would just encourage attack, right? Shouldn't they be making a show of strength in order to discourage attack?

What else are you going to do with eons on an Island? Practice, practice, practice.

Yeah, but ninja training? I mean, once you get to know the Others, they're not so bad. Personally I would have loved if Tom had focused on his dreams of the stage. He'd have been a great replacement for Pavarotti.

They, like, control the jamming devices. Satellite phones got around the time bubble issue - maybe their communication with the outside world was based on similar technology.

Yeah...let's not think too deeply about that whole satellite-phone-calls-not-being-time-shifted-but-rockets-are thing.

Anyone who arrives does so because Jacob brought them there. Let the merriment begin.

Jacob = protector of the island. What's he protecting it from? Men. Evil, meddling, meddlesome men. Solution? Bring as many as possible and give them rifles. Done, and done.

Location, location, location.

You're kidding. Everyone knows the middle of the jungle is terrible feng shui for one's theatrical supplies.

That equipment's expensive, you don't want just anyone fiddling around with it.

The underground bunker with the concealed entrance wasn't cover enough, I guess.

Actually, much of what you list was outright explained, while other bits are easily inferred.

Ehhhh...

Ever since this series ended it amazes me how people can make up their own answers and act like those of us that still have questions are out of line or just plain stupid for asking. Kitten, if you want to believe that Ben thought that beating Jack was the way to get him to perform spinal surgery that's OK. If you believe it makes sense to bury a medical facility (that was designed for OB/GYN) in the middle of the jungle that's OK too. Just don't act like it's cannon and we should have figured this out.

What else are you going to do with eons on an Island? Practice, practice, practice.

But the Others haven't been on the island for "eons." They've presumably been on the island for less than 150 years--people who arrived sometime after Richard becomes Jacob's emissary. So who taught them those ninja fighting skills?

Also, the Others did include some candidates--Friendly's name was on the compass in the Lighthouse.

So Jacob brings people to the island and some eventually join the others, some are killed off (ie most of the tail section) and a few become loners (Danielle and claire). My question is. ...were the people That were allowed to become part of the others and not killed or exiled on Jacobs list as potential candidates? Was Cindy a candidate? Just curious....

Whatever the non-sock others are doing as tasks for those higher up than them, haven't we established that many of them were in the dark and also didn't know what was going on? The "powers that be" seemed to be trying to gather special people--Walt ended up being too out of control for them, but the implication is that they were gathering "good" people who had special qualities.

It's easy for "Locke" to take over the group and march them all to Jacob's Foot because the Others crowd were kept in the dark and also told a lot of crazy stories...and minus maybe one or two, it appears they accepted it without that much question. They have different tasks--Cindy and the kids are there "to watch."

However, if we look at the template for how the Dharma Initiative worked and how the show works (matrishka dolls, boxes within boxes), I think that it's likely what they told the Others they were doing was not actually what they were doing, or at least not all of it. We saw the cameras at their houses. The Others are being watched as well.

In the "?" hatch (a.k.a. "The Pearl" or "Station 5") we see that people were watching Jack in our first hatch ("The Swan"), and that apparently they had access to watch other hatches as well (but currently the monitors to most other locations were inoperable). The person in the first hatch was pushing a button and "saving the world," keeping this loop of numbers going on and on and on. There was also the failsafe key that we saw Desmond use to reset everything that happened (right after Kate finds the costumes and realizes that Friendly's beard is fake--Mr. Friendly: "I think they know.").

In "Live Together, Die Alone" Locke explains to Desmond that the ? hatch is a research station where people take notes on other people and send them in pneumatic tubes (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Pneumatic_tube).

LOCKE: The Pearl is a psychological station full of TV monitors. And two men sat in viewing chairs and filled notebooks with observations on what happens in here. And then they put the notebooks in pneumatic tubes and send them back to their headquarters so they could evaluate us—as an experiment...what?
DESMOND: What if you've got it backwards?
LOCKE: Backwards?
DESMOND: What if the experiment wasn't on the two men in here, but on the two men in there? I want to see that tape, John?

I agree, there are many inconsistencies when it comes to the Others - i.e. rules, jamming devices, satelites, time distortion, the correct bearing for leaving the Island. I'm not caught up on those so much as I am the irritating knowledge that everything that Jacob did was not just to weed out his replacement, but to prove his brother wrong about something which the writers never showed me was Jacob's true nature...

The Others (those directly chosen by Jacob- i.e. Richard and Dogen- as well as those unfortunates who happened to get caught in the Island's net) blindly follow the set up Richard arranges as Jacob's facilitator. Ben becomes an Other because Richard makes a decision to save him.

Ben deposes Widmore by virtue of some rules that have evolved and which the Others continue to make and to follow. Ben as leader is ambitious and the goals he seems to have inheireted: 1. protecting the Island from evildoers (the DI, Widmore, anyone he doesn't like- i.e. Goodwin Stanhope) and 2. taking care of the hapless mismash of blind followers are not his only goals. Foremost he wishes for validation from Jacob.

Ben is free to make up his own personal agenda. He raises Alex as his daughter and focuses in on the pregnancy problem (which got dropped).

Jacob was also left with the freedom to govern the Island as he saw fit, so he decides to "prove" that not all people are as bad as his brother thinks they are. (His adoptive mother, Mother, who was the previous protector, eventually killed the people who threatened the Island's light, and even murdered her children's birth mother to find her replacement).

Jacob's goal of proving his brother wrong actually makes little sense given Jacob's story as a boy raised with his twin brother in isolation from other people; in fact, his "birth' people were on the Island trying to survive, and it is his runaway brother who tells Jacob that their people were pretty much greedy, corrupt, and evil. It's not something Jacob experienced for himself. In fact, if the brother found other people so infallible why did he still want to leave the Island? If Jacob was so moral, why did he throw his brother down the light cave or refuse to help people?

While the Monster most certainly will try to manipulate the bad in people, Richard will do what Jacob doesn't feel he should have to do, which is to help people make the right choices... (yet he is seen asking Ilana to do something for him; seen helping Kate not get arrested at 9 years old). Jacob himself murdered his own brother or at the least turned him into the smoke monster by default. So again, Jacob hopes that there is someone out there who will do the right thing no matter what because he wants to believe in redemption.

Jacob doesn't tell Richard that the end goal of his little human experiments is really to find his own replacement.

The Others try to pretend that they are just rag tag survivors, so they don rags and fake beards and threaten to kill any 815er that tresspasses on their side of the Island... hey, they are willing to share half. This rag tag survivor hoax comes to light after they kidnap Walt... why they do so seems to be connected to what they have noticed about the Island over the decades... it seems to attract "special" people, and I guess they wanted to build their ranks with "special" people. Jacob's lists seem to coorborate this, so Ben uses the old DI equipment to his advantage. He even uses it to brainwash Karl.

Inconsistencies are there to be found because the players in the story so seldom explain the truth as they only pretend to know it, and as it turns out most of them, even those behind the curtain (Mother, Jacob and Smokey) were making up their own rules and missmatched agenda from the get go.

I think it's the opposite. I think that the people who were taken and incorporated into Jacob's group were NOT candidates. They were "good" people, not broken like Jack and Hugo and the rest of the candidates. That's why they needed to be protected and taken into the fold. Just my thoughts...

Yeah, Goodwin offing Nathan to avoid suspicion because Nathan wasn't 'good', combined with Ethan's hanging ways wasn't just good, it were awesome!

The writers tried to rehab the Others' image afterwards, but they dug themselves their own hole.