My thoughts on this are still forming - but here it goes

In the Black Rock - Locke makes a comment about mining/drilling equipment.
The Others have a fuel powered boat - where are they getting fuel for it?
The hatch - reveals a shaft

Could the others be mining for some sort of fossil fuel - coal, oil, or natural gas? I lean toward oil.

Now why they would need Walt is beyond me.

Thoughts? 8)

agreed--walt obviously has some special powers , but why do they keep taking kids? how did the "others" even get to the island in the first place? (are they with danielle?) soooooo many questions...atleast we have some time to talk about it ...

I don't think that the others are mining at all.* It seemed like the Black Rock may have been heading elsewhere (South America, maybe) on its mining expedition when it was snared by the island (or the crew could be the original source of the others).* The reason I think so is that if they were actually mining on the island, wouldn't they have used up that dynamite decades ago in the normal course of a mining project?

well however the hole for the hatch was created , i would imagine some dynamite was used for that --(just a guess without knowing what the hatch really is)
arzt said that it could have been washed ashore by a tsunami...the others are definative using it though- did danielle store the dynamite there or does the dynamite belong to the others-i cant remember..

Dynamite could have been used for the orginal tunnel / shaft system that seems to be under the island. However, those Others had a motor boat, and it was running on something - my guess is diesel fuel. How much dynamite was there to begin with? Perhaps the Black Rock people were just the beginning, and the "others" are the ones who came later with the equipment. Based on the monster sounds, they have some sort of mechanical equipment there, and I doubt all of it came via the Black Rock.

Anyway - here's some info on locating natural gas for mining
In the earlier uses of seismology, dynamite was used to create predictable vibrations from known locations. These vibrations were then recorded by seismographs, and by placing these electronic devices over a large area, geologists are able to create a model of the rock layers beneath the earth's crust. Today, exploration companies often use specialized trucks that produce vibrations on the surface, rather than explosions of dynamite. The trucks produce more reliable, and less obtrusive vibrations than dynamite explosions. In off-shore exploration, ships often pull arrays of sensors, along with an 'airgun' that shoots out highly pressurized air into the water, creating vibrations that can be measured by the array of sensors, and then used to create the same profiles of the rock layers beneath the surface.
taken from : http://www.montello.com/s/OilAndGasFundamentals.asp

Notice how dynamite was used in earlier times, but not now. Now, the specialized truck rolling on the surface - could that be our beastie/security system?

Walt does have special powers...remember his "adopted" father told his dad that things happen around Walt, that Walt scares him?
And remember with the bird, Walt made it die in front of his parent's window?

Lia - I am not sure how your post ties into the theme of the thread. Could you explain a bit more. Thanks. -- Bess

bess-i am intrigued by the "trucks that produce vibrations" there are some seriously strange noises on that island so it is kinda hard to tell but if it isnt a "truck" it is definately some sort of machine :-\(you can hear the gears) :-[

bucki4life2003 - I know very little about mining, but am frantically reading about it now! My thought is that you would need something that would at least act like and cause the same effects as one of those special trucks. It may not have to be a truck.

bess- i am no miner myself...lol.. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:..lemme know what you find out...

Bess, weren't there a good number of large drill segments in the hold of the ship? As I said, I don't think that they're mining on this island, because all of that equipment would have been removed from the ship long ago, especially the dynamite. However, if you're looking for the type of resource that the miners who originally sailed the ship were targeting, I think those large drill pieces might be a clue.

The drilling equipment in the Black Rock may not be what they would be using in today's climate. In fact, as I pointed out, the dynamite would not even be used at all with modern technology. I know you don't agree with this theory, patch. But it's mine, and I'm sticking to it. May take a couple of days to fully research, but I'll get to it. I would even be willing to entertain mining of a different sort- like gold or copper. The capped shaft reminds me of a capped mining shaft. It's not meant to get into from the outside anymore.

Lia - I am not sure how your post ties into the theme of the thread.* Could you explain a bit more. Thanks. -- Bess


Sure. I was responding to the quote --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
agreed--walt obviously has some special powers , but why do they keep taking kids? how did the "others" even get to the island in the first place? (are they with danielle?) soooooo many questions...atleast we have some time to talk about it ...

They want Walt because of what he can do with his mind. He can make this happen by thinking them. That came out when Michael met Walt's step-father. Why they took Danielle's baby I'm not sure....

to comment on the mining theory -- maybe they need children becuase of their small size -- to access areas not passable by adult bodies (i'm probably not the first person to think of this, but nothing in this thread about it)

Hey Bess,

Great thread here. And I'm with thebull. I think they need Walt, and needed Alex, more for their size and ability to get into small spaces than anything else. Obviously, Alex would have been raised to it. Walt will have to learn.

Oh, and we've had a couple things about birds on LOST. First with Walt and then the CGI bird on the finale part II. Birds used to be sent into mines to test the levels of breatheable air. Don't know if they still do it, but those birds could be foreshadowing.

i was thinking about the movie, the beach... not the best flick in the world, but the idea was that there was this awesome, amazing island. on one end, there were these gangster-like drug lords growing tons of thai stick, and on the other end of the island, there was a peaceful contigent of hippies, smoking the stuff.

for some reason, the pirate seabilies seemed reminiscent of jungle mafia drug lords to me. maybe the others are mining drugs or something.

drugs - that would make sense as well...taking the slang of "black rock." Those creepy boat people seemed to be strong and armed, and were not adverse to using violence.

yeah, maybe it was their pistol-packing that made me think of drug lords. they were scarie than a "monster" or extraterrestrial presence...

They were frightening. The way they said "Is that so" and "We'll have to take the boy." So cold and matter of fact.

more reading

They're certainly not mining for oil or coal on a volcanic island, as oil, gas and coal can only be found in a completely different type of rock. The fact that they're on a South Pacific island suggest there's not much point in mining at all.

However, I'm not saying there's nothing exiting to be found under the ground. A volcanic island often has lots of caves and tunnels, and the others might need Walt down there because of his size.

By the way, did anyone notice the quick lava-like shot in the Season 2 preview from oceanicair.com? Looks like molten lava in a crater or something. And Danielle's map has a crater marked on it...

How do you know it's a volanic island? Anyway it wouldn't matter --* there's alot of mining that goes on in the South Pacific - gold, copper, nickel, oil, and natual gas. On Vanuatu as well -- - which are volcanic islands.* *;D*

http://www.news.vu/en/news/national/050204-french-mining-company-research.shtml* talks about the French exploring Vanuatu for pertroleum mining possibilities.* *;D

I really don't think this is the right path.* Why would Locke say the 'monster' is the most beautiful thing he's ever seen?* Most mining equipment isn't even ascetically pleasing, it's a blight on the landscape when I see it...

Why would everyone else run from a sonic emitting truck?* Wouldn't they just look for/talk to the operator and say "Hey, I'm out here in front of you, could you kinda, please, like not run over me, or eat me?"

Furthermore, it just doesn't jive with everything else we know about the Others.* Like, how does one guy, of normal stature, be so super-strong, strong enough to kidnap both Claire and Charlie, somehow restrain Claire whilst binding and hanging Charlie.* And also somehow erase Claire's memory?* Not miners...

Also, I don't know of any mining colonies that have NO shipping import/export.* Whats the point of mining with no outlet to unload it?* Or to bring in new supplies (machines break, consume fuel, mining bits break ALOT, and people break)?

Why would miners be running around the island giving whispers?* Maybe they are really happy little elf miners and they tell whispers to strangers for fun while the main Keebler guy is away?* :P

Well... what is the right path?* There's a whole lot to this island that we have not seen - how do you know they don't have a way to get anything out or off the island?*

The monster may not be the mining devices - but something put up to keep people out or away.* *:P

In anycase, you seem to have nothing constructive to say or contribute. Why* on earth did you even bother reading this thread?* ::)*
Not funny.

I responded because I wanted to poke holes in your pathetic theory.

There are so many problems with it, but hey, if you want to draw conclusions to stuff we dont know, be my guest, read every website ever created on mining if thats what interests you.* I am merely stating what we KNOW.* Feel free to add conjecture, thats your prerogative...

Bess, when did you get elected the Fuselage board Nazi? you get to decide what gets posted when and by who, get over yourself.

This theory seems a little offbeat, what is the point of mining coal or oil on an island so far from civilization, and how the hell are they going to move mass quantities off the island, that would be the only way it's possible. And why would the miners/others try to hide their activitty from the survivors that doesn't make sense either

I responded because I wanted to poke holes in your pathetic theory.

There are so many problems with it, but hey, if you want to draw conclusions to stuff we dont know, be my guest, read every website ever created on mining if thats what interests you.* I am merely stating what we KNOW.* Feel free to add conjecture, thats your prerogative...

Bess, when did you get elected the Fuselage board Nazi?* you get to decide what gets posted when and by who, get over yourself.


Totally inappropriate response. We do NOT attack other posters here. The Nazi comment is totally out of line. I don't want to see any similar posts coming from you.

Somebodys hurt, someone call a waaaaaaah-mbulance. Ban me if you must, I'll be back, this is stupid.

It is a stupid theory, and I exposed it as such!
Get over yourself Bess, watch how easy it is (I just got over you). Do you run to a Mod everytime someone disagrees with you?

http://cooltech.iafrica.com/science/361443.htm one reference to gold
http://www.amex.com/?href=/newsDetails/CmnNewsDet.jsp?id=XpressFeed_NewsDetails_111460772 5836.html Pacific rim Mining Corp American Stock Exchange

http://www.newint.org/issue291/plunder.htm Other things they are mining in the South Pacific

Somebodys hurt, someone call a waaaaaaah-mbulance.* Ban me if you must, I'll be back, this is stupid.

It is a stupid theory, and I exposed it as such!
Get over yourself Bess, watch how easy it is (I just got over you).* Do you run to a Mod everytime someone disagrees with you?


Fine you are banned.

i dont no if anyone has already said this cause i didnt read any of the repsons but we already no that walt has some sort of special powers. we will hopefully find more bout that next season. but maybe the need him cause they cant fit so they need someone small to get down their?

just i thought

Nanotech mining going on in Utah. Maybe not mining coal or oil or natural gas

http://www.atlasmining.com/releases.html
Mining and Nano Tech? Atlas mining company

From auto parts to barrier packaging, the race is on to commercialize nano-clay thermoplastic composites. Just a pinch of these infinitesimally small particles can dramatically raise mechanical, thermal, barrier, and flame-retardant properties.

My thoughts on this are still forming - but here it goes

In the Black Rock - Locke makes a comment about mining/drilling equipment.
The Others have a fuel powered boat - where are they getting fuel for it?
The hatch - reveals a shaft

Could the others be mining for some sort of fossil fuel - coal, oil, or natural gas? I lean toward oil.


I think they WERE mining, many years ago. They went deep enough and awakened a black cloud of killer intelligent nanites :laugh:

Now, they do what the nano-monster wants, and it lets them live. like King Kong

And what it wants are children

For certain types of nanotechnology research, they've been using Halloysite Clay which is mined. This clay is found in Utah, but also in New Zealand and other parts of the world. It's also used to make china. (go figure)

Hmm...

Here's my thoughts. There was some group mining, using nanites to get to their goal. Something happened in the nanites programming -- perhaps they evolved a sort of communal intelligence/awareness. Thus, they took over and like nym said, the Others (miners) do what the nanites want. And for some reason they want children.

YEah, I see. The mining and wanting children may not be directly connected. But, connected in the sense that whatever they are doing in the bigger picture wants/needs children. There could be a mining operation on the island (now I am leaning toward clay) feeding the bigger operation.

Bess, everyone, check this thread out please.

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=18803.new#new

I did some hunting on Edward Mars -- the Marshall's name. Long story short, through some work I came to the Milky Way Pit, a mining pit in Australia around 2000. The link states 19 July 2000.

here's a bio on Edward Mars and the info from the link on the pit:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0771966.html


The son of the man who invented the Milky Way candy bar, Forrest Mars left the country after a disagreement with his father. The younger Mars settled in Britain and created a business of manufacturing pet foods. He ventured into foods for humans during World War II when he returned to the U.S. and bought the Uncle Ben's rice concern. He encroached into his family's niche when he introduced M&Ms, and in 1964 merged with the family candy business, Mars, Inc. The resulting company, M&M/Mars, produced some of America's most popular candy bars, including Snickers. He retired a billionaire and left the business to his sons.

HILL 50 GOLD (19 July 2000)
Fourth Quarter Activities Report

After the wash-out experienced in the previous quarter, the operations performed within the Board's expectations for the June quarter.

The underground mines were strong contributors during the quarter with the Hill 50 mine continuing to increase in grade within the virgin northern lodes. The average grade for the quarter from Hill 50 was over 5.0 g/t Au and more importantly the increasing trend in each month of the quarter saw the grades in June average 6.0 g/t Au. Hill 50 has been developed to the 11 level (approx. 790m vertical) and will over the next year reach the virgin main lodes at the 12 level.

The Star mine continued its intensive level development campaign to set the mine up for stoping the smaller blocks, following the decision in the previous quarter to abandon bulk long-hole open stoping. It would appear from simple analysis that Star is producing at an annual rate of 500,000tpa. However, it should be noted that over 30% of the Star production came from development during the quarter, which is a disproportionate amount to what would be typical in the normal cycle. This is a function of setting the smaller stopes (post bulk stoping abandonment) to contribute a regular and increased ore flow. The Morning Star cluster now has nearly three complete levels developed in advance of stoping.

Open pit mining was completed in the Milky Way pit. This pit underperformed from the beginning and its completion was welcome. The open pit production at Titan continued but was slowed down to be commensurate with the requirement of this ore for mill blending. The remaining strip ratio is under 0.5:1 and in the month of June, mining for one shift gave the ore requirement for the whole month.


As well as Titan, the bulk of open pit production is now coming from Black Cat South and the recently started Reno Pit. These will provide the open pit feed into the blended ore stream for the next year.

The expanded Checkers plant began to perform strongly during the quarter with throughput averaging over 330tph and record tonnage and bullion production targets being broken during the quarter. Processing costs averaging $8.53 per tonne (quarter) reflected the performance, despite continued high power costs (fuel price).

Exploration activity was subdued as resource drilling took centre stage. However, a new discovery was made at Quasar NW, Jinx was drilled out to a stage where an open-pit mine looks likely, and O'Meara continued to show promise. Work around the old Perseverance open pit revealed a likely pit extension and Reno and Black Cat south continued to yield encouraging results for underground development.

http://www.reflections.com.au/MiningandExploration/ExplorationNews/July00.html

This may be nothing, but I think it's leading somewhere.

JohnnyReb - fantastic research/find! They were mining gold? Someone else on another thread speculated gold. And it is mined in the South Pacific.

Thanks Bess!

Yeah, they were mining gold at the time. It seems that that pit* (Milky Way) wasn't doing very well, though. It may not be about the gold. I think it is, but it could also just be a reinforcement about mining on the island.

I went and did some more research on Milky Way pit and Australia and came up with this.

Regolith geology and geochemical exploration around the Stellar and Quasar gold deposits, Mt Magnet, Western Australia
Authors: Robertson I.D.M.1; King J.D.2; Anand R.R.1
Source: Geochemistry: Exploration, Environment, Analysis, November 2001, vol. 1, no. 4, pp. 353-364(12)
Publisher: Geological Society Publishing House
< previous article | next article > View Table of Contents


full text options
Abstract:
The Boogardie Synform, at Mt Magnet, in the NE Yilgarn Craton of Western Australia, is difficult to explore due to structural complexity in the basement, a variably truncated, residual regolith beneath a complex, transported overburden and high geochemical backgrounds from numerous mineralized settings. The distributions of Au and associated elements in the regolith around the Stellar and Quasar deposits, within the Boogardie Synform, have been studied to identify optimum sample media and an analytical suite for continuing exploration of this district. Regolith–landform relationships and geochemical dispersion in the district were established by mapping the regolith of an area of 25km2 around the mines and investigating drill cuttings and pit exposures.
Mining and drilling at both sites revealed a partly eroded lateritic regolith incized by a fluvial palaeochannel, all concealed beneath 5–10 m of polymictic colluvium–alluvium. The sediments have all undergone post-depositional weathering. The Au mineralization is poor in As and Sb, but there are weak anomalies in Bi and Pb in the upper part of the weathered basement. There is no expression of the mineralization in the palaeochannel sediments or colluvium, nor between nearly adjacent layers within the colluvium and its overlying lag. Comparison of data from samples taken from the top of the basement with those from the unconformity, or interface, between basement and colluvium, indicates lower order but broader (200 m) and more consistent anomalies in the interface for Au, Bi and Pb. Useful anomalies can be improved using additive indices of Bi, Pb and Zn. The interface sample is, therefore, the preferred sample medium in this area of buried, truncated regolith, except where there are palaeochannels. Where there has been less regolith truncation and a buried, ferruginous duricrust is present, as at Stellar, duricrust is the optimum sample medium.
Elevated concentrations of Cr, Ni, Cu, V and, possibly, Zn in the basement regolith indicate mafic–ultramafic rocks. The saprolite and mottled zone on the basement rocks have a significantly greater Cr/Fe ratio than the transported materials. Regolith differentiation can be improved by robust canonical variate analysis; the most useful elements appear to be Al, Fe, Ni, Cr, Ga, Y, Zn, Th and Cu.
Language: English
Document Type: Research article
Affiliations: 1: 1CRC LEME, c/o CSIRO Exploration and Mining, Private Bag 5, Wembley 6913, Western Australia 2: 2Weston Consultancy Group, PO Box 64, Maylands, 6931, Western Australia

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/geol/geea/2001/00000001/00000004/art00006

Definitions of some of those words. I sure had no idea what they meant :).

Laterite is a red-colored clay rich soil found in the tropics and subtropics. It is typically an infertile soil. Bricks made out of dried or baked laterite make a good building material. Most of the temples of the Khmer empire in South-East Asia are built with this material and have survived for over 1000 years.
The name laterite derives from the Latin word later, meaning brick, referring to the soil's red brick-like color. Laterite needs the high temperatures and rainfall of the tropics to form. The water washes out the sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, and other metals, and enriches the soil with aluminium phyllosilicates, aluminium oxides, iron(III) oxides and hydroxides. The iron in particular provides the typical red color. Laterites particularly rich in the aluminium oxides called bauxite are mined as aluminium ore.
Laterites that form on areas underlain by mafic to ultramafic igneous rocks often result in the secondary concentration of nickel in the form of nickel-bearing limonite and the silicate mineral garnierite. These nickel bearing laterites form an important orebody class and are a major source of nickel.

http://www.answers.com/lateritic&r=67

Regolith (pronounced re-go-lith) is a layer of loose, heterogeneous material covering solid rock. Regolith is present on Earth, the Moon, some asteroids, and other planets. The causes of regolith on Earth are erosion, weathering, and biological processes. On Earth, regolith is mainly composed of sedimentary rock. On bodies without an atmosphere, regolith is caused by the gravitational reaggregation of debris resulting from impact with other objects.
On Earth, the presence of regolith is one of the important factors for most life, since few plants can grow on or within solid rock, and animals would be unable to burrow or build shelter without loose material.
On the Moon, regolith has been formed by the action of micro-meteroids breaking down surface rocks into a powder. This powder is more reflective than the basalt that makes up the lunar maria, and therefore looks brighter when viewed from Earth. There were (apparently) concerns before the landing of Apollo 11 that the regolith would not be supportive enough to cope with the weight of the lunar module and that the module would begin to sink beneath the surface.

http://www.answers.com/regolith&r=67

The word fluvial is used in geography and earth science to refer to all topics related to flowing water. Fluvial usually refers to rivers, streams and sometimes through flow, overland flow and percolation. Fluvial may also refer to glaciers and oceans, though these are usually known as glacial, oceanic and coastal.

http://www.answers.com/fluvial&r=67

Alluvium is soil land deposited by a river or other running water. The structure formed is called an alluvial deposit. Glaciers may also deposit alluvium, see glacial till.
A river is continually picking up and dropping solid particles of rock and dirt from its bed throughout its length. Where the river flow is fast, more particles are picked up than dropped. Where the river flow is slow, more particles are dropped than picked up. Areas where more particles are dropped are called alluvial or flood plains, and the dropped particles are called alluvium.
Even small streams make alluvial deposits, but it is in the flood plains and deltas of large rivers that large, geologically-significant alluvial deposits are found.
Alluvium is typically made up of a variety of materials. The finer material, or silt, consists of sand and mud. Larger particles, or gravel, are also typically present in a wide range of sizes.
The amount of solid matter carried by a large river is enormous. The names of many rivers derive from the color that the transported matter gives the water. For example, the Huang He in China is, literally translated, Yellow river and the Missouri River in the United States is also called Big Muddy. It has been estimated that the Mississippi River annually carries 406 million tons of sediment to the sea, the Huang He 796 million tons, and the Po River in Italy 67 million tons. Alluvial deposits often contain valuable ores such as gold and platinum and a wide variety of gemstones.
Throughout history many shallow lakes have been filled in with alluvium, leaving fertile plains. Alluvial soils are almost always very fertile. The alluvial mud annually deposited by the Nile has enabled the Egyptians to grow crops since at least the 4th millennium BC without artificial fertilization.

http://www.answers.com/alluvium&r=67

Colluvium or hillwash is the name for loose bodies of sediment that has been deposited or built up at the bottom of a low grade slope or against a barrier on that slope, as a result of rainwater or downhill creep. The deposits that collect at the foot of a steep slope or cliff are also known by the same name.
Colluvium normally forms fan or wedge-shaped deposits that seal former ground surfaces, making it an important phenomenon in the field of archaeology. Ancient sites can be preserved beneath colluvium if later changes in the landscape such as deforestation encourage a downward movement of material. This build-up process is called colluviation

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Colluvium.html

Maybe they're with Michael Jackson? :lol2:

Holy crap, Mt. Magnet is part of the Kalgoorlie Gold Fields! Kalgoorlie, where there is a connection to Sam Toomy. And I think Locke's walkabout was supposed to go through there. I'm not sure about the latter, though.

http://www.kalgoorlie.com/tourism/travel.asp

Merde!* Great find, Johnnyreb!* In reading over some of your information - this one: Laterite is a red-colored clay rich soil found in the tropics and subtropics. The name laterite derives from the Latin word later, meaning brick, referring to the soil's red brick-like color. Laterite needs the high temperatures and rainfall of the tropics to form. The water washes out the sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium, and other metals, and enriches the soil with aluminium phyllosilicates, aluminium oxides, iron(III) oxides and hydroxides. The iron in particular provides the typical red color. Laterites particularly rich in the aluminium oxides called bauxite are mined as aluminium ore.
Laterites that form on areas underlain by mafic to ultramafic igneous rocks often result in the secondary concentration of nickel in the form of nickel-bearing limonite and the silicate mineral garnierite. These nickel bearing laterites form an important orebody class and are a major source of nickel.* Naughty Paws had a thread that talked about red rocks - wanting to know if they were painted. You should bring this info over to her on that thread. She would be pleased.

The Kalgoorie find - words cannot describe!* :smiling:

Just added this info to NPaws thread at : http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=18236.0

I'll take that right over to her. And thanks. Man, today's been fun. And fairly productive!

Great researching! There's some interesting stuff here.
I'll be keeping up with this thread.

Cin

with that titanium bunker (the hatch), I'd guess they are mining uranium. even there is the old ship (black rock), the hatch is government issue - high end - cold war looking...

how long do you think the "hatch " has been there? the technology for such a thing must be fairly new....

What's interesting is that one can still purchase these type of hatches for home use in case of a nuclear holocaust. They are a bit more modern, but the design is still similar to the one on the island.

Uranium mining - there's a mine in Ranger, NT. Not far from Darwin.
http://www.uic.com.au/emine.htm with a nice map showing Darwin and the mine. And Kalgoorie as well! The Ranger mine and associated town of Jabiru is about 230 kilometres east of Darwin, surrounded by the Kakadu National Park, a major tourist attraction. This is a monsoonal part of Australia, with pronounced wet season from December to April. The first orebody is now mined out and the second one (#3) adjacent is now being mined. In the longer term the Jabiluka orebody, 20km away, may be more significant. Uranium mining has been going on for a while....definately during the Cold War (50s and 60s) just when it started, I can't locate that info yet.

thanks, bess and johnny!

very interesting stuff.

one question: when did we find out rhe marshal's name and from where? i saw on the imdb website a name, but that wasn't it, and i dont trust that site to begin with, so i just dismissed it. did i miss something else? was it said in Ex2?

Naughty,

the name came from the oceanic website's seating chart. Click on seat 27G I think and a picture of a marshall's id comes up with Edward Mars and the Marshall's face.

http://www.oceanic-air.com/seatingchart.htm

Bess, you might find this interesting. According to this site, uranium mining began in the 1940s. No exact date, though. I'm gonna say 1942, because...well....42 :)

What I'm trying to do is, to situate Australia in the context of the global uranium market. Uranium mining began in Australia back in the 1940's, very significantly for the United Kingdom Nuclear Weapons Program. Much of what was exploded on the Monte Bello Islands, at Maralinga, was, in fact, mined in Australia from 1954 at Rum Jungle and from 1956 at the Mary Kathleen Uranium Mine in Queensland. Mining actually started at Radium Hill, and 40 percent of the miners who worked at Radium Hill have subsequently died of lung cancer.
Australia has probably got the largest single slab of uranium reserves in the world, and this is the critical point that I want to make in this presentation. . . . So, Australia has somewhere between 480,000 tons of yellowcake and 1.3 million tons of yellowcake plus. Now, in comparison, South Africa, the next largest country in terms of reserves, has 317,000 tons, Niger -- I'm reading this in descending order of how much they have according to the official OECD estimates -- has 173,000 tons, Canada, although it is the largest producer, is only the fourth largest in terms of actual reserves with 139,000 tons, the U.S. which used to be the largest producer has 111,000 tons, Namibia between 90,000 and 100,000 tons, all at Roessing and France way down the list at between 46,000 and 50,000 tons.
. . . What I try to do is, simply give you an idea of what Australia has got and why the nuclear power industry sees Australia as important. Now, there are a lot of contradictions in the position that Australia has. On the one hand, it is seen as a potential uranium bonanza as it has the largest and amongst the richest deposits in the world. But on the other hand, Australia has been unable to penetrate the yellowcake market very much. . . . We have the same bizarre, nonsensical situation in Australia that exists in Canada where the companies want to expand production very considerably, even though their own market analysts tell them that there is a glut on the market, that the current spot prices for uranium are well below the cost of production, that the contract prices are moving down . . . Contract prices which make mines like Ranger and Roxby Downs viable are moving down and are approaching the cost of production.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



John Hallam
John Hallam, Australia. Member of Friends of the Earth, author.

Goofing around and found this. August 4, 1942 - 8/4/42!

AMERICANS INSPECT OUR URANIUM DEPOSITS
IN AUGUST 1942



visits since 30 March 2000




On 4 August 1942, General Kenneth Walker accompanied a civilian from Washington on a B-17 Flying Fortress from Townsville in north Queensland to Darwin where they were met by a party of Australian officials. On 6 August 1942 they travelled to Alice Springs where they were met by more Australian officials. After a few hours at Alice Springs they flew back to Townsville that night.

The "Native Labour Company" were employed by the Australian government in a mine "near" Alice Springs. Could this have been the Uranium mine? The "Native Labour Company" comprised about 500 chinese labourers who were professional labourers who had been rescued from the Japanese from some island possibly in the south west Pacific area.

General Kenneth Walker was in command of the Allied Air Forces in the Northeast area with the assistance of Group Captain Garing of the RAAF.

Can anyone help me with more information on this visit
and what may have eventuated!!



ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

I'd like to thank Kevin Parkes from Townsville for supplying me with the above information on the "Native Labour Company".



REFERENCE BOOK

Byrd, Martha, "Kenneth N. WALKER - Airpower's Untempered Crusader"

"Bayonette of Australia"

JR- super work. the 42 date makes sense in lighrt of t he race for the bomb during WWII and then the nuclear arms race in the Cold War. And of course, it's 42. ;)

Thanks Bess. I'm pretty proud of that find. And it's not just 42 -- It's 8, 4, and 42

4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42. Probably straw grasping here. But, I think it sounds pretty good.

The '42 date would also fit in with the estimated ages of Adam and Eve.

Okay, I've got a wild idea here. What if Adam and Eve actually found the island on purpose? Well, they weren't looking for that particular island, but for an island to do nuclear testing on during the war. The hatch was to keep them safe from the radiation from the testing. The mining would still be an important part of it -- perhaps there was uranium in the island? I know, it's a lot of conjecture. Just tossing out ideas.

Not all that wild, JohnnyReb. I like it..esp. in light of all the nuclear testing that has gone on in that part of the world.

I posted this in the Tiberius thread. Thought it would be useful here as well.

I found these quotes here:

http://www.dfat.gov.au/dept/annual_reports/97_98/subprog14.html



development of further trade and investment opportunities in Africa, especially southern Africa, through a successful initial Joint Ministerial Commission with South Africa, expanded links with Australian mining companies and constructive outcomes from the meeting of Australian Heads of Mission in Africa



The Department hosted a number of regional business visitors, and sponsored and participated in a series of seminars in most Australian state capital cities to promote Australian private sector awareness of commercial opportunities in Africa. Also it took advantage of a visit by the Angolan Vice-Minister for Petroleum to expand links between Australian mining companies with interests in Africa.

Entrepreneurial Beginnings


Halliburton, Brown & Root, Dresser Industries and M.W. Kellogg were all founded early in the 20th century and shared a dedication to technological leadership, operational excellence, innovative business relationships and a dynamic workforce.


All four forged fearlessly through the first half of the 20th century, patenting technologies and products, developing new services and supporting and facilitating the growth of the energy and E&C industries. All enjoyed significant growth and diversification during World War II and the post-war boom. The four also effectively managed through cycles of record prosperity and serious recession, intense competition and rapid technological advancement through the second half of the century.

Halliburton and Brown & Root
Halliburton grew from the risk-taking entrepreneurialism of Erle P. Halliburton, who established the New Method Oil Well Cementing Company in Oklahoma in 1919. Simultaneously, the Brown brothers, George and Herman, partnered with their brother-in-law, Dan Root, to found Brown & Root in Texas.


By Erle Halliburton's death in 1957, the Company had 201 offices in 22 states and 20 foreign countries. Five years later, Halliburton acquired Brown & Root following Herman Brown's death. At the time, Brown & Root was renowned as a road construction company, general contractor and builder of the world's first offshore platform in 1947.

Dresser Industries and M.W. Kellogg
Dresser Industries also prospered during the first half of the 20th century. Inventor-entrepreneur Solomon Dresser founded the company during the nation's first oil boom late in the 19th century. A patent for a cylindrical packer in 1880 launched Dresser's oilfield products manufacturing business. Dresser Industries evolved over the next 100 years into a major energy industry provider.

In 1988, Dresser Industries acquired M.W. Kellogg, a pipe fabrication business started by Morris W. Kellogg in 1900. Kellogg created technology for petroleum refining and petrochemical processing and built facilities based on those technologies. The Kellogg legacy remains an important part of KBR today.

Read about Halliburton in the 21st Century.

Back to Top

I wonder if a Halliburtonish fictional company has had something to do with the island? Some talk about Halliburton got started on page 122-23 of the Tiberius thread. Or maybe the companies aren't important, just their technologies in relation to the island (those technologies being pipe fabrication, and off-shore oil platforms. Whatcha think Bess? Everyone?

Edit: Sam Grant has a thread on atomic numbers that might could coincide with this thread -- http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=19000.0

I agree, JohnnyReb. If there are any conspiracies going on here, I'm leaning toward a large company in lieu of any government. We've seen alot of money being thrown around (there's a thread on this somewhere) and we've seen the power of one man - Mr. Paik - to control gov't officials.

Whatever is on that island - I think it has the interest of a large corporation. And that interest may be something that is mined - or an experiment (but I'm leaning away from anything research based for now).

I wonder if the radio tower is situated on top of an oil-platform like base? And perhaps they used pipe fabrication tech to build the hatch tunnel somehow. Maybe even to create whatever dragged down poor Joanna (I just don't think she drowned).

JohnnyReb - Look at this - there's mining talk on this thread. (and people said my idea was far fetched ;))

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=19285.0

I've read that thread, Bess. Reading the links right now. Now, to get away from everything else that's been posted on this thread, I'm wondering if Locke wasn't trying to divine some treasure in Australia whilst on his walkabout. Perhaps he'll find a greater treasure on the island -- the same treasure that our nefarious Others and the Corporation is trying to find.

I've read that thread, Bess. Reading the links right now. Now, to get away from everything else that's been posted on this thread, I'm wondering if Locke wasn't trying to divine some treasure in Australia whilst on his walkabout. Perhaps he'll find a greater treasure on the island -- the same treasure that our nefarious Others and the Corporation is trying to find.

Might explain why Locke had a geiger counter in his room in Walkabout.* I'll get the screen cap
.http://www.lost-tv.com/pictures/displayimage.php?album=4&pos=327

I have to say that in some aspects I like Lost-media and in others I hate them. I find it very strange that they are missing some of the most important caps.
Lost-tv and Lost-theseries have caps but they don't expand enough. Lost-theseries is the only other one that has all the episodes.

The Best CAPS are on the HDTV site and you can't link to them. One the HDTV site (their cap, that is basically this shot) the geiger counter is yellow in the front of the big table.

Thanks, Sam!

Major drawback of the HDTV site - but I am sure glad it's there!!

Sam - I have been wondering about that geiger counter since starting this thread.

Major drawback of the HDTV site - but I am sure glad it's there!!

Sam - I have been wondering about that geiger counter since starting this thread.*

I was one of the lucky people that got a copy of the Hollywood Reporter that had the DVD with the Pilot episode part 1 of LOST and Walkabout on it for Emmy consideration. I watched Walkabout today and zoomed in on the geiger counter, because that's what it is. It even has a little radioactive symbol on the side of it.

In tha same picture you see the big American flag on the wall. On the table under it, there is a plate on a plate stand. It sure looks like a military commorative plate. It's had me wondering. There is also a picture on the wall of what looks to be a bunch of people hiking. A rifle case against the wall.

...I just have to jump in and say that this is the most thought-provoking thread, with the most well-researched contributors...thank you guys. :-* Thank you muchly!

I am now doomed to months of speculation as to which writer got all hot and bothered over the actual Haliburton Co. and found strange little links...then put it into play with an island survivors story. Or which shaft we'll see Walt being forced into come next season. Or how Locke has a commando past and is out to find the holy grail via seismographs. Or none of the above. Thanks for putting out some great food for thought and also a friendly attitude that anything can be right or wrong...who knows, ya know? ;)

...off to research...

8i8

Thanks, Beth8i8. JohnnyReb has done a TREMENDOUS amount of research, and it's fantastic! :) Please visit this thread often. Love to have more thoughts.

Thanks Beth! Like Bess said, visit often. Post often!

The mining is on Desolation Island! Check this out!

O'BRIAN, PATRICK
#05 Desolation Island
c. 1811 FP 1978 Captain Aubrey and Maturin sail off to rescue Governor Bligh of Australia. With a load of convicts, a nasty disease, and a beautiful spy, they flee a Dutch man-of-war all the way to Antarctica, where they find Desolation Island. Priced $180 to $1,250 on Internet for this first American edition (NAP, "first published" on copyright page, price intact on DJ) Nice copy, no flaws, marks or cuts. Hardcover Stein and Day FAE VG/VG $175.00
NFTSBPO050FE

http://www.bazillionbooks.com/sail.html

Desolation Island
Desolation Island is located in the Antarctic region (49 degrees 20 minutes S, 70 degrees 20 minutes E). James Cook ran across the Island in the late 1700s. He noted in his journal that he would have called the island "Desolation Island" if another explorer had not reached it first. Yet, in English minds, the name stuck. The island seemed desolate at the time, even though it teems with arctic animal life, mosses and even an unusual variety of cabbage that is exceptionally high in vitamin C. (It was used by sailors and whalers throughout the 1800s to avoid scurvy.)

The man who reached the island before Cook was a French sea captain, Kerguelen-Tremarec. He made two expeditions to the area while looking for a continent that was supposed to "counter-balance" the great northern continents. He made more of the discovery than was perhaps warranted. Early efforts to exploit the island by the French proved abortive and they left it for nearly 100 years to the Whalers and the occasional lost sea-farer.

While the English called it Desolation Island the French named it after its discoverer and call it Kerguelen Island. It is currently a French colony and has a base for geologic research and also for the French Space program (mostly tracking satellites).

The island is situated in a zone where the warm waters of more temperate oceans meet the cold waters of the south. Thus precipitation is fairly constant with snow or rain for most of the year (300 days on average). High winds are frequent - 68 mph is common. The island is the largest of an archipelago consisting of some 300 islands. It is a geologic formation resulting from volcanic activity in the region. The terrain is fairly rugged. It's most prominent feature is Mount Ross (1850 meters) which is a dormant volcano

http://www.indepthinfo.com/desolation/index.shtml

Editorial Reviews

Amazon.com
Captain Bligh (yes, the guy from the Bounty) needs to be rescued, and the Royal Navy has the perfect man for the job: Captain Jack Aubrey. With his friend and cloak-and-dagger expert Stephen Maturin in tow, Aubrey sets off for Australia. Several factors, including an attractive spy and a small-scale epidemic, conspire to change his plans, and before long his frigate is being pursued into Antarctic waters by a Dutch man-of-war. Five installments into the series, the Aubrey-Maturin story remains (to quote The Observer) "the best thing afloat since Horatio Hornblower."

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/039330812X/ref=pd_sxp_f/104-8065290-5416710

I'm placing this here because I think they might just be mining treasure now. But, I'm going to create a thread in General Theories about Desolation Island, too.

The island is situated in a zone where the warm waters of more temperate oceans meet the cold waters of the south. Thus precipitation is fairly constant with snow or rain for most of the year (300 days on average). But, the climate on that is on the cold side (snow) we have tropics on our island - but I do think most of the other geography matches up. Oh, don't tell me they "borrowed" from O'Brian as well! :)

I think so. They left out the snow and kept the rain.

Maturin - does he lose an arm in the O'Brian books? I've never read them.

I don't know. I'll go see, though. And I really like this island for the setting. Haven't been this excited since page three of this thread :lol2:

Jack is shot in the arm pg 120-121, but presses on with a splint. He suffers fever, pneumonia, chronic pain, but retains a dogged determination to remain cheerful

"Jack's left hand blow, delivered with all his strength and all his weight, flung the man's arm and cutlass into the sea and his body into the waist of the ship" pg 328

page 326: Jack tried to take a left-handed shot, missed, and the enemy then chopped off the old bosun's arm, "The bosun passed the turn – the knot was tied – the cutlass flashed down:* Jack and Watt fired together and the man dropped between the ships. But too late: the arm was gone, severed, still clinging to the Chesapeake."

http://www.hmssurprise.org/wa.cgi?A2=ind0409a&L=gunroom&F=lP&S=&P=4316

I thought this was pretty interesting. Jack and Watt (Walt?)

I should add that this is a series, starting with Master and Commander, I think.

Shootfire mentioned in the Desolation Island thread in General Theories that the Others were wearing cold-weather clothing. Perhaps due to the temeperature there and possible snow on the island? This island is just too good for our island.

The island is situated in a zone where the warm waters of more temperate oceans meet the cold waters of the south. Thus precipitation is fairly constant with snow or rain for most of the year (300 days on average). High winds are frequent - 68 mph is common. The island is the largest of an archipelago consisting of some 300 islands. It is a geologic formation resulting from volcanic activity in the region. The terrain is fairly rugged. It's most prominent feature is Mount Ross (1850 meters) which is a dormant volcano

Shootfire mentioned in the Desolation Island thread in General Theories that the Others were wearing cold-weather clothing. Perhaps due to the temeperature there and possible snow on the island? This island is just too good for our island.
I like the Desolation Island thoughts, although it may be too far east for our calculations, if the pilot was on the up-and-up. Note that they say that it's the largest of an archipeligo consisting of some 300 hundred islands. Well, what if Desolation is one of the southern most (coldest below the equator) and Craphole island is the northernmost. It might be hard to differentiate that it's warm there due to being near the equator, as Sayid said to Shannon (he also told her she'd never fired a gun before and she debunked that theory in a hurry) as opposed to it being the beginning of spring in September. I do think that they have to be in the tropics, from the flora.

Good ideas patch.

So, if we go with this pseudo-Desolation Island location for our location, what could they be mining and is there any special equipment they'd need (something not mentioned in previous posts)? I know I said digging for treasure in my first post about this, and that's a distinct possibility; but, does it make the most sense in relation to the other ideas we've posted about -- minerals, etc.?

I know, a lot of questions to answer. But, we can do it 8)

I've been trying to locate the island - is it real? Can someone point to a real map with it located? Many thanks.

When looking up Lost stuff yesterday, I came across some mining references.

plutonium and ? (uranium) are from deep down in the earth.*
This was from a site talking about God saying "Don't tear asunder. . . ", in reference to splitting the atom and creating bombs.* *Could they be mining for it?

MICHAEL: Okay, we can't safely make that tunnel any bigger, but since Jack can't get out, one of us is gonna have to go in and unpin him. HURLEY: What, crawl through that? BOONE: I think he means someone smaller. (Jin starts talking rapidly in Korean.) JIN: (in Korean) (untranslated) HURLEY: (interrupts) Dude, we don't understand Chinese.

Is this foreshadowing Walt being kidnapped and used to fit in a small space?

Doesn't Sayid point out they are very near to the equator.? That is something almost anyone would be able to tell from the sun.

On the other hand it would be heading in the right direction for the sunset to be before the plane crash.
Maps
http://www.discoverfrance.net/Colonies/Kerguelen.shtml
http://www.discoverfrance.net/Colonies/Kerguelen.shtml#
http://www.discoverfrance.net/Colonies/Crozet.shtml#

http://www.africa-atlas.com/indian-ocean.htm* * * *Really big picture

Back to mines or mineral deposits.
Why the compass was off

http://www.rescuedynamics.ca/articles/MagDecFAQ.htm#DECLINATION

More D-Island thoughts on temps---the Others, true, were dressed in warm clothing, but they also had a means of transportation. And how the flip are they getting the diesel/petrol/whatever to power their boat?

Could they be from one of the other reachable islands in the archipelago, one that is colder but less dangerous, making it a better home base? Whether mining for their fuel (which would help keep them alive in many ways, making it an essential) is done on Craphole or another island, they would still most likely need small people to work the mines. Hence the need for children. They could have set up the security system in order to know when fresh meat was around. Are they unable or unwilling to get back to civilization, since they have a means of transport? Perhaps it can't get them far enough...or maybe they're not into going back. Lord knows Kate, Walt and Sawyer weren't, at first.

So, working from the (holey! hehe) theory that they're based on another island, 2 things: 1) how do they hear the security system? (Perhaps the CGI bird flies to them?) 2) what of the whispers? (Are there giant parrots that are mimicing what they've heard? lol)

Just thinking in text form...

8i8

2) what of the whispers?* (Are there giant parrots that are mimicing what they've heard? lol)


What if? It's definately possible, well maybe not the giant part, but there are birds that can mimic.

Sam Grant:

Thanks for all the links. I'm attempting to look through them now.


I love the idea of the Others being from another island in the archipelago. It does open up some questions as to how they know things, so I'm going to throw out a couple probable answers:

1. They were at the island first, found some of the equipment around the hatch area and scavenged it for their own use. Some such equipment could be used to alert about new individuals (fresh meat) on the island.

2. They set the island in the first place, but something went wrong and they've gone feral.
2a. Danielle ain't the victim we think she is. She's actually an Other and the smokey fire from Exodus was built by her to let them know to come get Walt.

Now, I don't know if any of that is true, but it could be feasible.

As for the birds mimicking, thus creating whispers. I guess it could be true. However, how would they know what to copy: "It'll come back around"?

Having this island be part of an archipelago fits in with LostbyLost's theory that the others are from another island. Beth8i8 also mentioned that.

The idea of uranium or other sorts of mining makes sense in light of what they may want to build - nuclear technology etc.. I guess if you go with the "there's a large corporation with their hands in all this island stuff" what would they most want nowadays?

Great thoughts all!

A list of minerals at the Kergueln Islands

http://www.mindat.org/loc-30703.html

Mineral List:

'Albite-Anorthite Series'


Armalcolite


Augite


Chromite
var: Titaniferous Chromite


Diopside
var: Chromian Diopside


Forsterite


Ilmenite


'Kennedyite'


Loveringite


'Olivine'


Phlogopite


Rutile


Spinel

I'm looking up the minerals in this database : http://www.mindat.org/index.php* Very cool info to* be found.

FYI - Halliburton is into mining - via it's company KBR (Kellogg Brown and Root) !!* :) Halliburton in 2001 also partnered up with a Canadian company called "Micro Mining" TRying to find what "Micro mining" is. All I found so far is : Micro Mining is a publicly listed high-tech industrial company, which is presently commercializing its technology into the oil & gas, mining, and power generation and environmental sectors. Micro Mining's mandate is to provide sound environmental solutions through advanced technologies for public and private industry.

Ok, I had to rescan the whole thread to make sure this wasn't mentioned.
Sawyer oil scam in Confidence Man.* Looking for the pages in the transcript.

SAWYER:* Just trust me. There isn't any time to explain.* I'm already late.* If
I miss this meeting, the whole deal's a bust, all right?* That's everything I
have.* A hundred and forty thousand.* There's an oil mining operation in the
Gulf of Mexico.* Drilling platforms.* Three hundred thousand dollars buys you
one share.* But as soon as you invest, a government-sponsored fund kicks in and
triples your money in two weeks.* Triples it.

JESSICA:* Three hundred thousand?

SAWYER:* Yeah.

JESSICA:* You got $140,000?

SAWYER:* I found an investor in Toronto.* He wants in fifty-fifty.* Two weeks,
we'll be splitting almost a million bucks.* Jess, this is my chance.

JESSICA:* There's another option.

SAWYER:* Yeah?* What's that?

JESSICA:* That I give you the hundred and sixty thousand and we split the
profit.

(Sawyer looks at his reflection in the mirror and starts to tie his neck tie.)

SAWYER:* Yeah, and how in the hell are you gonna scare up a hundred and sixty
thousand bucks?

JESSICA:* My husband.

LATER

DAVID:* Louisiana will invest two-thirds of the drilling costs. What is this, a
loophole?

(David has the contract in his hand.)*

SAWYER:* Look, David, you're reluctant.* I get it.* You got your lumberyard.*
You don't need this.

The other thing they are ravaging in the world is trees. The rain forests in Sumatra an Borneo.

Could it be the other way around? That this is sacred ground and somehow a defense system has been put up to stop any destruction on the island? (Just a thought that's beginning to form.)

Sam,

Nice work finding that. I'd actually forgotten about the entire scam from that episode -- knew there was one, but what it was is filed way back in the recesses of my subconscious.

The other thing they are ravaging in the world is trees. The rain forests in Sumatra an Borneo.
Could it be the other way around? That this is sacred ground and somehow a defense system has been put up to stop any destruction on the island? (Just a thought that's beginning to form.)
Well, if they are trying to protect trees, they need to get another security system because this one would seem to cutting off it's nose to spite it's face. We've seen trees uprooted and just plain disappear underground in the path of the monster. Still, the "sacred ground" idea has some real merit. If there are some places on the island that are specifically being guarded, like the territorie noire, there has to be a reason why it's happening there and not elsewhere.

This one pops out of the list of minerals,* cuz Tibs is talking about love between them, and we know it never means what we think.

Loveringite* - Loveringite from Jimberlana Intrusion, Norseman, Western Australia, Australia

Colour: Black, white in ...Physical Properties of Loveringite Lustre: Metallic Colour: Black, white in reflected light. Hardness (Mohs') 5

Localities: * * * *
Algeria
Wilaya de Tamanghasset
Central Hoggar
Laouni
Laouni West stratified intrusion J.P. Lorand and J.Y. Cottin, Bull. Minéral. , 1987, 110, pp. 373-
Australia
Western Australia
Norseman
Jimberlana Intrusion (TL) [Nickel & Nichols, 1991 - ; AM 1978, 28-36
Austria
Salzburg
Hohe Tauern Mts
Rauris valley
Hüttwinkl valley
Lohning quarry Lapis 2003(1), 48
French Austral and Antarctic Territories
Kerguelen Islands Contrib. Mineral. Petrol., 122, 174-190 (1995)
Russia
Northern Region
Murmanskaja Oblast'
Kola Peninsula
Khibiny Massif
Kaskasnyunchorr http://maurice.strahlen.org/kola/khibiny.htm

Webmineral
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6238073
Titanate ceramics for the immobilization of sodium-bearing high-level nuclear waste
Reminds me of the talk of nanoclay, and us wondering what it's uses could be.*

Optical and misc. Properties

History
Authors/Auteurs (inventeurs) : GATEHOUSE & AL.
Discovery date/Date de découverte : 1978
Etymology/Etymologie : Dédié à J.F. LOVERING
Town of Origin/Localité-type : NORSEMAN, INTRUSION JIMBERLANA, AUSTRALIE OCCIDENTALE
Country of Origin/Pays : AUSTRALIE


That's as deep as I can go on something like this.* Could someone look into it, that has knowledge of science.

Well, if they are trying to protect trees, they need to get another security system because this one would seem to cutting off it's nose to spite it's face.* We've seen trees uprooted and just plain disappear underground in the path of the monster.*


Oh. My. God. I'm so sorry if I'm taking this thread off topic, but that got me thinking JUST now, and I HAD to post...if they're blasting underground on Craphole Island, the "roaring" alarm sound of the Security System could be just that--an alarm for the people doing the blasting.* This might account for the trees being shot straight out of the ground.* Also, the birds and flapping wings we see or hear right before the "alarm"....don't animals usually know when something is changing in the atmosphere, like when cows lie down before a storm?* AND AND AND...the folks doing the blasting may as well salvage the trees they've uprooted for wood, so the thing that dragged Locke could be what they usually use to drag the wood!* The "Monster's" black smoke could be eminating from the underground tunnels/blast sites.*

I will try to come up with something more on topic to make up for this, lol!* :lol2:

Brilliant

beth8i8 - I really like it! you just combined a couple of thoughts into a larger one. Good going.

The tree thing has bothered me since we first saw it being done.

waltisfuture:

Great find! Thank you for posting all of that.

beth:

Freaking brilliant idea!

That's all for right now. I'll come back in a bit.

Oh, you're GOOOOOOD

Thanks, guys! :)*

Bess--I KNOW! The tree thing has been debated a LOT on the 'lage, and the imagery is so striking that it has to be something...a blast from underground might be just the thing.* I thought my inkling out and made a more logical post in Gen Theories, which was.........(heheh, rambly at best, har har)........

****Okay, new thought I had today after a thread by Bess2728:

Consider for a moment that Danielle is just wrong.* She doesn't KNOW it's a Security System, she has just assumed as much because when she gets to certain points on the island it goes off...or whatever she thinks makes it one--doesn't really matter.* Just assume she's wrong.

If there is a system of underground passages, perhaps accessable via the Hatch, and we know there's dynamite and drilling materials on the Black Rock, why not consider this:

There is blasting and mining going on underground, by a group (Others?) who inhabit the island and use its resources to stay alive generation after generation.*
Before the "monster" does its "roar/alarm" sound, we hear the flapping of wings.* *Birds and other animals sense when an atmospheric change is about to happen, such as when cows lie down before it rains.** What if we hear wings before the "alarm" sound because a blast is about to go off underground and the birds nearby sense it?*
Immediately after the wings flapping/bird sightings, we hear the loud "monster" noise.* This may very well be an actual, logical warning noise--warning the underground miners that a blast is about to go off, and in no way intended to frighten the bejesus out of castaways.* (But how are they to know that?)*
Soon after the noise, trees are blown straight out of the ground.* The blasts from underneath could cause this.*
Sometimes, we hear mechanical noises and see trees being sucked INTO the ground.* Maybe the same mechanical device that almost hauled Locke into the ground (the mining shaft? the vacant tree-root hole leading to the mining shaft?) is a sort of automatic-retrieval winch that the miners use to harvest the trees that they've uprooted--good for firewood, building things, etc.* When on an island for years, you use what you find--especially if it's a huge piece of wood that you could never cut down on your own.* Maybe Locke was in its path.*
As for the black smoke, this could be either 1) a cloud of smoke from the blasting itself, or 2) an emission from some sort of mining transportation, like a small-scale rail car used to carry blasting material from site to site and transport what is being mined.* The latter could explain why Kate and Jack see the weird smoke before the big monster encounter in the finale...the underground transport has just gone by, dropping off blasting charges which will soon become the "monster" they encounter, and a bit of its emissions have leaked upward and outward through holes in the ground.* (Again, wicked spooky to our lostaways because they have no idea what it is!)

This is something said before the show even premiered, and I think it's well-known, but I'll SpoilerFont just in case...

* the creators have said that they are not delving too deep into parapsychology or the paranormal or all of that...they are trying to keep everything "within the reasonable realms of science."* That doesn't mean they might stretch it a bit, like Walt's specialness, but still...*
this may be a way to fall into that logic.

So..............throw tomatoes, if ya must!* But whaddya think, fusebunnies?

8i8* ******

theory is great. the only part that doesn't sit well with me is the birds thing. we hear the wings not only before the monster comes, but as it leaves also. then when it returns. if birds were sensing stuff and flying away from it, they wouldnt be coming back and then leaving again. that's the only part that's odd to me.

Not really anything big about mining per se, but shootfire posted something pretty interesting in the Kate, Locke and baseball thread:

The American Youth Baseball Hall of Fame, Cooperstown Dream Park, lists a team from Westhills, CA. The team is called California Gold. Interesting considering all the mining talk circulating.

Cool, huh?

Well, mining doesn't explain black smoke that seems to be sentient, but it's an interesting theory I suppose. Certainly no real evidence to the contrary. But, based on what has been established on the show so far, I think they are going in a different kind of direction than evil miners stealing kids for slave labor. :)

The producers have said that season 2 will be "getting wierd" so, maybe they ARE miners with powers. Who knows? :)

Njc----------------

Noeland - I don't thonk evil miners are stealing kids for slave labor either. I do think something is going on there - the more I think about it, the more I think the creepy boat people and their fire, may not be related to what I believe is mining going on there. Do I think a large corporation is involved - yes...we've had too much focus/hints on money/commerce/wealth to ignore.

Do I think a large corporation is involved - yes...we've had too much focus/hints on money/commerce/wealth to ignore.

More thinking. I don't think we've heard the last of Anthony Cooper or Mr. Piak. We may not see them again but maybe something they invested in?????? Hurley?

Sam,

I think someone theorized that perhaps the watch Jin has/had was supposed to go to Hurley or a business associate of Hurley's.

don't think we've heard the last of Anthony Cooper or Mr. Piak Totally agree.

Throw the gov't aspects into the mix - we have business manipulating gov't (Mr Paik) the CIA and the Aussie counterpart in the terrorist ring, the "Marshal" and Kate....etc...

More thinking. I don't think we've heard the last of Anthony Cooper or Mr. Piak. We may not see them again but maybe something they invested in?????? Hurley?

Sam,
I think someone theorized that perhaps the watch Jin has/had was supposed to go to Hurley or a business associate of Hurley's.
Has anyone suggested that the watch Mr. Paik wanted Jin to deliver in Los Angeles was supposed to go to Anthony Cooper? That would be a real corker. Also, I could see Locke's dad being more than willing to have made his money in less than scrupulous ways.

Hey patch, I wasn't able to find a Hurley/Jin/Cooper connection, but I did find this thread on the watch and Jin and Hurley.

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=8790.0

I read that thread too. If Hurley is connected there's a good chance he doesn't know it. He didn't know what his money had been invested in.

I'm thinking that the investing is alot older than Hurley's money. It might go back to WWII but didn't TPTB say that the Island has been there for millennium?

I think so, Sam. I think they said the island had been there for a while, and various people/groups had found their way to the island over time.

I think so, Sam. I think they said the island had been there for a while, and various people/groups had found their way to the island over time.
And no one ever left the Island.

Large companies that could play a part due to their history : ;)

Dutch East India Company - one of, if not the, largest companies in the world in the 17th and 18th centuries.
Hudson's Bay Company - the oldest corporation in Canada (indeed North America) that is extant
Halliburton - founded around 1900 and continues today.

Hudson's Bay Company - the oldest corporation in Canada (indeed North America) that is extant



Can you picture the Hudson Bay Company colors? Blankets and Jackets of cream color background with bright red, yellow and green. I think? Correct me if I'm wrong please. I mention this because of the Primary colors thread.

waltisfuture, I found this. Nothing current, but it's a flag used by HBC when the company was first created, I think:

http://collections.ic.gc.ca/albertametis/history/flag.htm


Here's the Seal of the Hudson Bay Company:

http://pages.infinit.net/cerame/heraldicamerica/etudes/hudson.htm

I've never seen them with the background a different color, but they are in this picture.* The original ones that I'm talking about are the ones on the bottom of the pile. Red, Yellow and Green.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson's_Bay_point_blanket

http://adsnews.blogspot.com/2005/02/missing-halliburton-radioactive.html
I found this while looking up some Halliburton stuff.

(the Americas) Americium was the fourth transuranic element to be discovered; the isotope 241Am was identified by Seaborg, James, Morgan, and Ghiorso late in 1944 at the wartime Metallurgical Laboratory of the University of Chicago as the result of successive neutron capture reactions by plutonium isotopes in a nuclear reactor. The luster of freshly prepared americium metal is white and more silvery than plutonium or neptunium prepared in the same manner. It appears to be more malleable than uranium or neptunium and tarnishes slowly in dry air at room temperature. Americium must be handled with great care to avoid personal contamination. The alpha activity from 241Am is about three times that of radium. When gram quantities of 241Am are handled, the intense gamma activity makes exposure a serious problem. 241Am has been used as a portable source for gamma radiography. It has also been used as a radioactive glass thickness gage for the flat glass industry and as a source of ionization for smoke detectors.


Doesn't mean much to me. Hoping it means something to you. ;)

WAltisfuture - interesting about the Hudson blankets. Where is that primary color thread?

It keeps getting buried. When something colorful comes up, someone goes and finds it. I can't remember what category it is in though.

The problem is, that in order for the Hudson blankets to be relevant, by this logic, we'd first need some proof that the colors THEMSELVES are relevant to the show's story and not just chosen for aesthetic reasons which is, obviously, quite a bit more likely. This is an interesting idea, sure, and I'm behind the mining concept in a BIG WAY, but right now, you're basing an entirely new theory on something that is, in and of itself, still theoretical by nature. This is the Leaning Tower of Conjecture in action again.

I got nothing better to do than lean of the tower these days. :lol2:

This is the Leaning Tower of Conjecture in action again.

Maybe - but the thought would work better in the colors thread where the meaning of colors and use of color is discussed in depth.

It keeps getting buried.* When something colorful comes up, someone goes and finds it.* I can't remember what category it is in though.

WIF I'll add the Primary Colors thread to the LOST Library. Just bookmark it I'm trying to keep threads for everything we use all the time there.

Thanks Sam Grant :)

Ok, I had to rescan the whole thread to make sure this wasn't mentioned.
Sawyer oil scam in Confidence Man.* Looking for the pages in the transcript.

SAWYER:* Just trust me. There isn't any time to explain.* I'm already late.* If
I miss this meeting, the whole deal's a bust, all right?* That's everything I
have.* A hundred and forty thousand.* There's an oil mining operation in the
Gulf of Mexico.* Drilling platforms.* Three hundred thousand dollars buys you
one share.* But as soon as you invest, a government-sponsored fund kicks in and
triples your money in two weeks.* Triples it.

JESSICA:* Three hundred thousand?

SAWYER:* Yeah.

JESSICA:* You got $140,000?

SAWYER:* I found an investor in Toronto.* He wants in fifty-fifty.* Two weeks,
we'll be splitting almost a million bucks.* Jess, this is my chance.

JESSICA:* There's another option.

SAWYER:* Yeah?* What's that?

JESSICA:* That I give you the hundred and sixty thousand and we split the
profit.

(Sawyer looks at his reflection in the mirror and starts to tie his neck tie.)

SAWYER:* Yeah, and how in the hell are you gonna scare up a hundred and sixty
thousand bucks?

JESSICA:* My husband.

LATER

DAVID:* Louisiana will invest two-thirds of the drilling costs. What is this, a
loophole?

(David has the contract in his hand.)*

SAWYER:* Look, David, you're reluctant.* I get it.* You got your lumberyard.*
You don't need this.

The other thing they* are ravaging in the world is trees. The rain forests in Sumatra an Borneo.

Could it be the other way around? That this is sacred ground and somehow a defense system has been put up to stop any destruction on the island? (Just a thought that's beginning to form.)

So David has a lumberyard more tree trivia

Good catches, Sam Grant and Coupons!

http://www.calderares.com/news081804.html

Chelle posted the above link in the Tiberius thread. It's pretty interesting. I don't know how or if it will affect this thread. But, it's definitely worth looking into y'all.

http://www.calderares.com/news081804.html

Chelle posted the above link in the Tiberius thread. It's pretty interesting. I don't know how or if it will affect this thread. But, it's definitely worth looking into y'all.

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/diamonds/found.html

I remember that Diamonds are found in kimberlite and it's called a pipe. I think I remember reading that geologists believe that all the kimberlite pipes are connected. (Old school work. I'll see what I can find.)

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/diamonds/pipe.html - some basics on kimberlite pipes. Great reading. And Sam Grant - you changed your name! :D

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/diamonds/pipe.html* *- some basics on kimberlite pipes. Great reading. And Sam Grant - you changed your name!* :D


Yeah, It was a silly mistake when I first signed on. I couldn't figure out how to change it without starting over and finally just asked Karri if she was able to change it.

Black rock could be coal and diamonds are carbon. Superman could change a piece of coal into a diamond. Everything always has more than one meaning on this show.

Hey y'all,

Good information. I've been thinking, if there is something to do with this Caldera company on the island (bif IF I know), then wouldn't Ronald Winston have had to be in contact with Warren Truss at some time during the negotiations? Warren is the Agriculture Minister that Sawyer head-butted. I bring this up because of the Farming reference in the link I posted.

Not to push on the Leaning Tower of Conjecture too hard, but ... :lol2: (I really like that Su La Terre. Clever!)


Nigeria is known for both coal and oil deposits. Internal strife has kept them from really being able to capitalize on them though. With all the African referrences in the show, I though it might be something to consider. Of course, I'm off on one of my tangents right now, but I think some of you know why I mention it. ;)

HEy - check out this thread http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=20286.0

Interesting stuff that ties in to many things.

Metex Resources Ltd
ASX Code: MEE
Description: Metex is a Perth based ASX listed mineral exploration and production company that has commenced its first mining venture at the Whisper Project. Metex's interests include the Gladiator and Mt Crawford Projects, the Laverton Exploration Joint Venture. At Roe (east of Kalgoorlie), the Tiberius prospect has led to a new $4 million joint venture with leading Australian gold producer Newcrest Mining Ltd.

http://www.e-cbd.com/110607.php

kimberwing posted this in the Tiberius thread. What do y'all think?

Why aren't we mining anymore?

Why aren't we mining anymore?


My headlamp burnt out :rolleyes:

Hey y'all,

Man, I haven't seen this thread in a while. Any new ideas? What do y'all think about the Tiberius thing in Kalgoorlie?

Hi my buddy

How's things? I'll be MSNing as soon as school starts.

What about Tib and Kalgoorie? I missed that

Metex Resources Ltd
ASX Code: MEE
Description: Metex is a Perth based ASX listed mineral exploration and production company that has commenced its first mining venture at the Whisper Project. Metex's interests include the Gladiator and Mt Crawford Projects, the Laverton Exploration Joint Venture. At Roe (east of Kalgoorlie), the Tiberius prospect has led to a new $4 million joint venture with leading Australian gold producer Newcrest Mining Ltd

That *points up*

And get your butt back on MSN!

There is only on skeptic to the theories...If you notice, the Black Rock is similiar to ships of those in the parlimentry period.

I found this the other day, but didn't think of this thread

http://www.es.ucl.ac.uk/research/desmond/


What is DESMOND?
A NERC funded consortium aimed at understanding the composition, chemistry, and dynamics of the deep Earth through an interdisciplinary study of the core-mantle and inner-outer core interfaces.


Desmond is a new character for season 2

Silver and Bronze were mentioned in "...andFound". Would Alvar Hanso be mining on this island?

"the black rock" was just the name of the ship they found-apparently the french chick can read spanish. and station number three "the swan" is only one of six stations. if the swan has all of those guns and that well stocked pantry-that hasnt been restocked in years. then i can only imagine that one of the other stations has a stock of gas and a generator-as well as guns. im just wondering why anybody would need that much firepower to defend against a few dharma initiative polar bears and sharks.

might i add that ive read a bunch of speculation that station number one (the one where the people from the tail section were hanging out) was code named the raven-being from baltimore i would love if that were true. even if we are two and five.

"the black rock" was just the name of the ship they found-apparently the french chick can read spanish. and station number three "the swan" is only one of six stations. if the swan has all of those guns and that well stocked pantry-that hasnt been restocked in years. then i can only imagine that one of the other stations has a stock of gas and a generator-as well as guns. im just wondering why anybody would need that much firepower to defend against a few dharma initiative polar bears and sharks.We really don't know when the last supplies were delivered. New washer & dryer seem to indicate somethings were delivered quite recently.

"the black rock" was just the name of the ship they found-apparently the french chick can read spanish. and station number three "the swan" is only one of six stations. if the swan has all of those guns and that well stocked pantry-that hasnt been restocked in years. then i can only imagine that one of the other stations has a stock of gas and a generator-as well as guns. im just wondering why anybody would need that much firepower to defend against a few dharma initiative polar bears and sharks.
Given Hanso's background - the firearms stash is not surprising to me. And there is more to the Dharma initiative than polar bears and sharks. Maybe something was unleashed whilst mining on the island years before the Dharma thing started.

I just reread the whole thread. Great read. This popped out from something Johnny posted.

this is a series, starting with Master and Commander

Captain Aubrey and Maturin sail off to rescue Governor Bligh of Australia. With a load of convicts, a nasty disease, and a beautiful spy, they flee a Dutch man-of-war all the way to Antarctica, where they find Desolation Island.

When this was posted, we didn't know about Alvar Hanso. (Dutch)

Regarding the boats power source, this will make you laugh but I think the boat is not of this world-its part of the Lost Universe. Did you notice it was either snowing or maybe volcanic ash on the boatbillies raft and snowing on the others? Maybe the boat is powered by a geothermal engine (generates steam, and volcanic ash.snow) or maybe the strange snow (and knit cap on mr degroots) can be explained as a remote viewing experience?

Utopian:

I don't know much (heck anything) about how geothermal engines could work on a boat. But, I like the idea. Kewl.

WiF:

I'd forgotten I'd posted that! What do ya know, maybe I was actually on to something *lol*.

ETA: Went searching and found the Desolation Island thread in case anyone's interested:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=15206&highlight=Desolation+Island

black rock miners excavated the current Dharma hatches and tunnels in exchange for "life extension" and trip home.

Boats do not use fossil fuels-did you notice the "snow" in the abduction scene? I think that is ash byproduct of a geothermal reactor.

I just reread the whole thread. Great read. This popped out from something Johnny posted.

When this was posted, we didn't know about Alvar Hanso. (Dutch)Isn't he Dainish? The DeGroot's Dutch?

One of Them

Henry Gale made his money in Non-metallic minerals

Non-metallic minerals are usually industrial minerals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_minerals) such as gravel, clay, etc. I find it interesting that gypsum is on the list in that link, perhaps he was the supplier of the plaster we saw sitting in the hatch? Sulpher is also on the list....and I don't think they need any sulpher on a volcanic island, maybe he was mining it?
I don't know anything about mining (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mining_by_mineral), but here is a link if anyone is interested.
I do know that if you are mining for gemstones, some of the best places to mine are in areas where a geologic event brought the minerals you are looking for up to the surface. Some of the best is the pipe/pillar from a volcanic eruption. (Perhaps mining would have left a series of tunnels for the "others" to live in.)

The allotropes of metals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal) tend to be lustrous, ductile, malleable, and good conductors, while nonmetals generally speaking are brittle (for solid nonmetals), lack luster, and are insulators.

Minerals: non-metallic, potash, clay, gypsum
potash, salt, specialty clay, bentonite, kaolines, pumice, anthracite, zeolite, mica, perlite, pumice powder, talc, calcium carbonate, calcium sulfate, feldspar, farrite, ilmenite, magnesium oxide, gypsum, calcite, barytes, dolomite, muscovite.

Oil and petroleum are also included in this list.
http://website.lineone.net/~webrex/commonmins.html and more

So we know what we're dealing with.
Non-Metallic minerals:-
Limestone, Nitrate, Potash, Dolomite, Mica, Gypsum, Coal, Petroleum.

Distinguish between Metallic and Non-metallic minerals.
Metallic minerals:-
* After processing a mineral ore if the substance we obtain is hard, lustrous and sonorous it is catagorised as a metallic mineral.
* Metallic minerals are malleable, ductile and have high melting and boiling points.
* They are associated with igneous rocks and are generally found in lumps and loads.
* Examples:- Iron, Copper, Manganese, Nickel, Silver, Gold etc.

Non-Metallic minerals:-
* If the substance obtained is brittle and dull, it is called non-metallic mineral.
* These cannot be drawn into sheets and rolled into bars and have lower melting and boiling points.
* They are associated with sedimentary rocks and are found in layers.
* Examples:- Limestone, Dolomite, Mica, Gypsum, Coal, Mineral Oil.

I was hoping someone would bring this thread back up! I about jumped out of my chair when Henry mentioned mining.

Okay, so out of the list of nonmetallic minerals the one that jumps out to me is sulfur. Kate, in an episode earlier this season, mentioned the smell of suflur as she showered. At the time I just took it to be a problem with their water system. In hindsight, it could have been (and most likely was, in my opinion) a hint to lead us in a nonmetallic mining direction.

One of Them

Henry Gale made his money in Non-metallic minerals
I watched this again and I believe he said "non-metallic metals".

Thanks for the clarification, that would be the term that the industry uses for that type of mining, but I find it funny that they would say non-metallic metals when the term non-metallic means no metal.
You could still go by the periodic table to determine the "essence" of the material and the list for non metals is:
Hydrogen
Carbon
Nitrogen
Oxygen
Phosphorus
Sulfur
Selenium
Non-metals are insulators not conductors of electric current, and they have no magnetic properties.

I watched this again and I believe he said "non-metallic metals". I watched it again too, I wish iPod had CC. He turns his face to the side but does say minerals.

Hey all - glad to see this thread going again. A big smile came on my face when mining was mentioned this week.

I did some research a ways back about one type of substance that was used in nanotechnology and in explosives. I do believe it was a non-metallic substance. The name eludes me now, and I don't have the energy to comb through the archives. I'll see about looking it up and re-posting it. I also seem to remember that deposits were found in Nigeria and Australia.

that all. :-)

Bess

Bess,

Hey! Is this what you were talking about?

For certain types of nanotechnology research, they've been using Halloysite Clay which is mined. This clay is found in Utah, but also in New Zealand and other parts of the world. It's also used to make china. (go figure)

Yes! That's it! Many thanks.

My pleasure :)

I asked to have it pulled out of the Past Spoiler Section. I hate to see some of the threads that are there. We have so much information in some of those threads and the newbies wouldn't know about them. You can ask a mod or mini-mod to release a thread for you, it is obvious that this thread would become active as soon as mining was mentioned.

So glad you mentioned this again Johnny.

Hey Sam,

I was glad to have a reason to mention it again. A lot of minin' stuff is makin' more sense now that we know about Widmore Construction and that other company (the one on Henry's balloon) -- what was it again? I have a horrible memory sometimes.

Hey Sam,

I was glad to have a reason to mention it again. A lot of minin' stuff is makin' more sense now that we know about Widmore Construction and that other company (the one on Henry's balloon) -- what was it again? I have a horrible memory sometimes.Minnesota Mining & Mineral. I think that's it.

Yeah, let's talk about mining some more. Personally, I'm not into what may have been mined just yet, but trying to nail down if there are mines, and looking at what evidence we have at this point, just before season 3.

I posted this earlier today when Briolette pointed me to a Tiberius thread. Something TabbyRasa in said got me going off on Danielle:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1149933&postcount=726

well it also makes u wonder what they are mining and why.............

Now that mining is making a comeback, we had a bunch of great information on this thread. From the Darlton podcast it seems the ship was naturally drawn to the island because it was carrying so much metal. If not for the metal on board it could have sailed by the island and not been attracted to it.

Locke's comment in 'The Brig'
"My guess is they captured the slaves and brought them here to try and mine the island."

If they were mining something, it would have been gems (Adam & Eve's stones?) or a precious metal of some kind. Coal was too plentiful elsewhere, and there was really no market for crude oil in the mid-1800's.

This is only Locke's guess through. They might have been en route to mine elsewhere.

Darlton suggests that the Black Rock was drawn to the island, Locke thinks they intended to come there.

Neither explains why the boat is in the middle of the jungle.

More research

http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/property/magnetis.htm
http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/oxides/magnetit/magnetit.htm Magnetite is a black rock
Notable Occurrences: South Africa, Germany, Russia, USA (Michigan, Utah), France, Germany, Norway, Finland, Brazil, Isle of Ischia, near Naples, Compania, Italy.

And a little something interesting about Birds and magnets.

Birds are biologically sensitive to the Earth's weak MAGNETIC FIELD [emphasis mine]. Robins caged just before migration perch facing their destination, even in a blackout, but are disorientated by distortion of the surrounding magnetic field. BETWEEN THE EYES of the homing pigeon, able to wing 1,000 kilometers straight home even if blinded by frosted glass contact lenses, lies a tissue containing over a million BAR-SHAPED lumps of MAGNETITE (lodestone), a permanently magnetised mineral of iron, anciently used as a crude compass - sufficiently sensitised for the bird to detect variations in the magnetic field. That the magnetite works as a compass is unproven; no neural pathways have been traced. But pigeons with bar magnets strapped to their backs get lost, while those carrying an equivalent, but non-magnetic brass bar get home as usual.