View Full Version : JOHN and JACK same person...
06-01-2005, 02:51 AM
The names John and Jack are the same name, Jack is short for John.* I think that these two characters represent one person and the two different sides of their personality.* Has anyone posted anything about John Locke the poet yet? Locke's Essay is one of the classical documents of British empirical philosophy. His official concern is with epistemology, the theory of knowledge. Locke sees the universe as made up of material bodies, which in turn are made of "insensible particles," which interact mechanically. There are also immaterial substances associated with human bodies. These bodies have sense organs, which when stimulated produce "ideas of sensation." These ideas are operated on by our minds to produce "ideas of reflection." These two types of ideas are the material of our thoughts, perception, and consciousness, which are all derived from experience; we can have no knowledge beyond our ideas. In perception, according to this view, we are not directly aware of physical objects; we are directly aware of the ideas that objects "cause" in us and that "represent" the objects in our consciousness. Our ideas of primary qualities of objects, or the mathematically determinable qualities of an object, such as shape, motion, weight, and number, actually exist in the world. Secondary qualities, those which arise from the senses, do not exist in objects as they exist in ideas. According to Locke, secondary qualities, such as taste, "are nothing in the objects themselves but powers to produce ideas in use by their primary qualities." When an object is perceived, a person's ideas of its shape and weight represent qualities to be found in the object itself. Color and taste, however, are not copies of anything in the object. Genuine knowledge cannot be found in natural science since the essence of physical objects that science studies cannot be known.
06-04-2005, 05:13 AM
yes, I've actually pointed out their names to folks.
I'm not that familiar with the real Locke's philosophies, but the little I've read
makes me feel that the writers are giving OUR Locke some similar beliefs.
06-04-2005, 06:05 AM
That was a good read. I'm ashamed to say I haven't looked up any of the philosophy stuff, but it sure is everywhere. I think it will come into play more in season 2.
06-08-2005, 06:23 PM
the 1600's poet Locke
Learn real Locke teachings: http://www.philosophypages.com/locke/g0.htm
Book on Locke:
John Mackie, Problems from Locke, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1976.
This book covers a range of issues which are closely connected with Locke's philosophy - primary and secondary qualities, representative theories of perception, substance and essence, abstract ideas and universals, identity and personal identity and innate ideas.
JOHN and JACK same person?
This might be if u consider Jack's profession and the real-world Locke in the 1600's as both were physicians. The Lost Locke seems to possess all the philosophy sides of the Late real Locke.
06-08-2005, 07:04 PM
Adding this to my post... consider the state they are in on Island , and look at this text, it might give u an idea of what is happening:
"As for our own existence, we perceive it so plainly and so certainly, that it neither needs nor is capable of any proof. For nothing can be more evident to us than our own existence. I think, I reason, I feel pleasure and pain: can any of these be more evident to me than my own existence? If I doubt of all other things, that very doubt makes me perceive my own existence, and will not suffer me to doubt of that. For if I know I feel pain, it is evident I have as certain perception of my own existence, as of the pain I feel: or if I know I doubt, I have a certain perception of the existence of the thing doubting, as of that thought which I call doubt."
what if their existence is in peril, and the physical is just a perception ?
06-08-2005, 07:29 PM
Well, interesting as it was, could it actually be possible? I have a feeling that the writers won't go that far-out ? Have you heard of the KISS theory?
( I am not saying you are stupid! Someone else made the name up )
06-10-2005, 05:41 PM
handcuffs, I get what you're trying to say, but it seems to me that tenacious meant more that jack and john as characters are meant to be foils of one another more than alternates in that whole cliched "Identity" style (which theory has already been ruled out by the writers, so I've read). I think discussing these characters and the way they juxtapose one another might be the original intent.