Here's a theory:
What if when asked about Kate, Diane would answer: "My sister, my daugther..."

In other words, what if Wayne were Diane's father and Kate was born of Wayne's abusive, incestual relationship with Diane?

This would explain Kate's alternately calling her Diane and mom. It would explain why she would almost take for granted that Sam would want to kill Wayne. Wayne's sins go way beyond infidelity, and the purpose of killing him would be to protect Diane. That is probably how Kate thought when she eventually did kill him. It would explain Kate's disgust at the whole idea of being his "daughter" because she may have known that he was her maternal grandfather. It would explain the hints about incest/abuse in the family while at the same time flat out denials that Wayne ever touched Kate. It was Diane he was abusing.

Ok, I admit that this totally goes against the Juice theory (i.e. mercy killing), but I felt it belonged here in light of the discussions about Kate, Diane, Wayne and Sam. Just some food for thought....

Equator Just when I thought we had made Wayne as icky as we possibly could, along comes Equator and turns the ick-factor up a notch.

I really don't think Wayne is old enough to be Diane's dad, but I like the twist.

Also both Diane and Wayne are wearing wedding rings in WKD and though no one said outright the Daine and Wayne are married, except the Marshal, it think that information is true.

As for the, mercy killing, that was just one idea as to what the "Juice" could mean.

Just when I thought we had made Wayne as icky as we possibly could, along comes Equator and turns the ick-factor up a notch.

I really don't think Wayne is old enough to be Diane's dad, but I like the twist.

Also both Diane and Wayne are wearing wedding rings in WKD and though no one said outright the Daine and Wayne are married, except the Marshal, it think that information is true.

As for the, mercy killing, that was just one idea as to what the "Juice" could mean.

The thing is Wayne would have to be really bad in order for the nice, helpful, somewhat mixed-up Kate that we know on the Island to hate him so much. More than anything, she hates the fact that he's her father. Until she knew that, she could tolerate him. Even Sam Austen understood that Kate would want to kill Wayne if she found out he was her father.

Wayne would have to be terrible to reconcile the two Kates: the one with murder in her heart, and the one we know from the island.

Equator

Now back to Juice and Kate.

I think Juice is slang for gasoline but gas? I still don't think we've seen what inspired the "Juice" line.

Kate's breaking point was when she was making the photo album for Sam.(other photo album was at Sam Toomey's) Something that Wayne did, was tolerated because Kate thought he was her step-father but intolerable as her father? She said he never touched her? If she had a child that she suspected he had done something to? (yuck, yuck, yuck)


I was reading this thread and noticed you mentioned the other photo album was a Sam Toomey's. I had made a reference in the Rebellious Rabbits thread linking Toomey, Austen and another Austin.

This may be way OT from your quote but what photo album were you referring to?

I was reading this thread and noticed you mentioned the other photo album was a Sam Toomey's. I had made a reference in the Rebellious Rabbits thread linking Toomey, Austen and another Austin.

This may be way OT from your quote but what photo album were you referring to? The one Kate made for Sam's(Austen's) birthday.

where is everyone, thought this place would be jumping..
feel like i have a hang over.. a joyful hangover..

I'm still digesting it all and have to watch again before I can really comment on what it means to me.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=723[/url]
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=721
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=732

Sorry I have taken so very, very long in checking my messages. If you are still interested in Sam's uniform and the details about it, I'll try my best to answer any questions.

Sam's a member of the Infantry. This is indicated by the crossed rifle disc on his left lapel. If he was serving in the infantry at the time of the picture, then he would have blue discs around the discs on his lapels and an infantry "rope" off his right shoulder. However, the patch on his left shoulder indicates he is currently on recruiting duty. The rifle in the blue rectangle surrounded by the wreath is the Combat Infantryman's Badge or CIB. Because there is no star at the top of the wreath, Sam has only seen combat during one conflict.

As for his decorations, Army regs specify that they be worn in a specific order. Sam's are not in regulation order. The ones I recognize immediately are the Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Ribbon, Army Commendation Medal, NCO Development Ribbon and the Overseas Deployment Ribbon. The remainder are not quite clear enough to get a good read on. I hope this information was helpful. If you have additional questions, I will try to be more diligent about checking the forum.

Sorry I have taken so very, very long in checking my messages. If you are still interested in Sam's uniform and the details about it, I'll try my best to answer any questions.

Sam's a member of the Infantry. This is indicated by the crossed rifle disc on his left lapel. If he was serving in the infantry at the time of the picture, then he would have blue discs around the discs on his lapels and an infantry "rope" off his right shoulder. However, the patch on his left shoulder indicates he is currently on recruiting duty. The rifle in the blue rectangle surrounded by the wreath is the Combat Infantryman's Badge or CIB. Because there is no star at the top of the wreath, Sam has only seen combat during one conflict.

As for his decorations, Army regs specify that they be worn in a specific order. Sam's are not in regulation order. The ones I recognize immediately are the Good Conduct Medal, National Defense Ribbon, Army Commendation Medal, NCO Development Ribbon and the Overseas Deployment Ribbon. The remainder are not quite clear enough to get a good read on. I hope this information was helpful. If you have additional questions, I will try to be more diligent about checking the forum. Thanks Alrany. We will take information at any time.

We either have another case of different characters sharing the same name or a connection.

In the pilot ,Kate talks to Charlie about her friend Beth who is a Driveshaft fan.

In Live Together,Die Alone, when we see Libby meeting Desmond she tells him her name is Elizabeth.Throughout this episode they really pushed that name.It was on the boat and in the whispers.

I always wondered why Kate had gotten so upset after Libby's death but maybe she just couldn't hold in the hurt of losing another friend even though she did not let anybody know she knew Libby. . She also seemed to take care of Hurley at the funeral ,possibly because she knew he was good for Libby.

We know that Libby's appearance has changed throughout the years from roughly 3 years ago giving her boat to Desmond, then when she was in the mental institute,to here on the island.

It has been said that Libby's story would be told through flashbacks ,so what better way than to tell them through her friend's.

It is odd that Kate and Libby barely interacted with one another but this could be explained by the fact maybe they did not recognize each other until Libby's death .It also could be that there are some bad memories there that neither one wants to bring up so they avoided one another. Kate has been on the run so it is kind of hard to be friends with a fugitive so they could have lost touch and just were not really friends any more.

Kate was very reluctant to let Claire talk to Libby in Maternity Leave,saying that they really did not know her. Maybe Kate knew she was not a real psychologist.She stayed with Claire as she explained what had happened to her.

Also in Maternity Leave when Claire is talking to Libby in private ,trying to remember things ,Kate stayed within ear shot of what was going on. As soon as Claire screamed because she remembered Ethan ,Kate was quickly there and wanted to know what Libby had done to Claire. When the taillies showed up that is when Kate seemed to get really protective of Claire and Aaron which was weird since she had no interest in the baby before.

Libby told Claire that sometimes when bad things happen there is a switch in the back of our heads that we flick on to protect us from what happened. That could explain why she did not recognize Kate,she chose not to.

The final thing is that Kate told Michael she had crewed J-boats for 2 summers. Libby owned a boat so did Kate work for her on that boat and that is how they met?

It may all be a coincidence but you never know.

Macainickle
I like this connection. We have established that many people on the island have gone by different names. Although, there doesn't seem to be any recognition between Libby and Kate, Kate is certainly more upset by Libby's death than expected.

When Kate mentions her friend Beth to Charlie it sounds like a current relationship. We don't know who sent the letter to Kate, and it could have been Beth. There may be a reason that Kate and Libby didn't want anyone to know, they knew each other. Libby may have been there to help Kate get away from the Marshal, or all three of them were in something together.

Shannon and Kate both had sailing experience. Kate may know the Elizabeth very well, because the J boat line wasn't just thrown out there, not to be referred to again.

Libby is dead..... but in the rehelm of LOST she may get more of a chance to tell her story now. Just look at Christian.

I came looking specifically for a Libby thread today, I was thinking about her and Desmond. Desmond's loss at sea probably was what pushed Libby over the edge. She had lost her husband and I expect we will see Libby and Desmond together again. He had 8 months of training to get into the best shape of his life, before he left. I think they became good friends, not lovers, and the loss of her husband and her friend was more than she could take.

I'm certain Desmond will be back in Season 3 and we will eventually find out how close he came to seeing Libby again. That's a set up for a very emotional scene.
Was Libby in Australia trying to find Desmond? Did she have an idea where he might be? Could she have been there, with Kate, to try and find Desmond? Could Desmond be the person or thing Kate's has been looking for?

With the Beth/Libby/Elisabeth, Kate and Desmond possibilities we have a much better chance to see Libby, again.....next season.
I was wondering why Kate was crying (like she lost her best friend or a family member in Sawyers arms) when she had not "known" Libby for very long as compared to Boone and Shannon and I dont remember her shedding a tear for them or AL for that matter ?

While your theory would answer that, I agree with LostPack about why would they hide their relationship ? Unless they were others (I personally do not like that idea) As far as Libby and Elizabeth I always assumed Libby was just her nickname or maybe the name she went by and her husband only called her Elizabeth and she no longer went by that after her died.

But overall.... I am ... intrigued and think your theory is very interesting !! :redface:
We know, from past experience, that people that are mentioned in this series eventually show up. It's a great way to connect Libby and another character . There are many places in Kate's story for Beth to appear.

Kate had help getting the information about what bank where the Marshal hid the plane and getting the key to the safe deposit box. Someone was sending Kate information about her mother's health and sending her money. Maybe Kate and Libby did have a private encounter after the Tailies got to camp, we just haven'r seen it yet. Kate was busy in the Hatch with Sawyer for quite a while, when was the first time Kate encountered Libby? I do think there is something to Kate breaking down and crying. She did it in connection with the plane & after seeing the horse. She didn't break down and cry when she said goodbye to her mom or Sam Austen, what made it too much with Libby?
I cried for Libby but mostly I was crying for Hurley. If Libby was also Beth that gives Kate a better Hurley connection. What if Libby remembered the Numbers from Santa Rosa and sent them to Kate? Kate made some kind of connection with 23. I'm bringing these over from the Beth/Libby/Elizabeth thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=52409) because I think this could be the Beth Connection to Kate.

the human mind has the ability to remember over a million different faces.
we may not remember names, but faces yes, as in i had not see a boy in over 5 years, but knew him and he had changed. so if kate knew libby then she would have had some rememberance because we also carry physical personallity trates.
Just IMO, so jesus sticks please...

the human mind has the ability to remember over a million different faces.
we may not remember names, but faces yes, as in i had not see a boy in over 5 years, but knew him and he had changed. so if kate knew libby then she would have had some rememberance because we also carry physical personallity trates.
Just IMO, so jesus sticks please... We know why Libby knows Hurley and why Hurley should remember Libby, yet he doesn't. There could be a reson why neither Kate or Libby want anyone to know they knew each other. We just haven't been shown that piece. Maybe, Libby isn't Beth but there is a possibility.

one too many beers, sorry..
has anyone questioned why jacks dad iin white rabbit is wearing white shoes? that really preplexes me. unless jack dressed him that way. but if he wore his suit down there, he have left his good shoes at the hotel with his suit.
I am alway intriged by that, like it somehting the "others" forgot.

one too many beers, sorry..
has anyone questioned why jacks dad iin white rabbit is wearing white shoes? that really preplexes me. unless jack dressed him that way. but if he wore his suit down there, he have left his good shoes at the hotel with his suit.
I am alway intriged by that, like it somehting the "others" forgot. I always linked it with the white sneaker that was hanging in the tree in the pilot episode.
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=3&pos=22

This is a classic man's sailing shoe.

Also, I think it was meant to represent the white bunny feet that you are following... white sneakers... white rabbit...
it was a slightly more subtle way of showing us the Rabbit, than just putting Christian in an all white outfit, I think.

All the way back to why Kate started calling her mom Diane, I have known several people who, having lost respect for their parents, began calling them by their first names.

Of all reasons to lose respect for a parent, committing adultery and robbing a child of a beloved parent (foster or natural) is probably the worst from the child's point of view.

All the way back to why Kate started calling her mom Diane, I have known several people who, having lost respect for their parents, began calling them by their first names.

Of all reasons to lose respect for a parent, committing adultery and robbing a child of a beloved parent (foster or natural) is probably the worst from the child's point of view. It seems the point came later than that. When Kate goes to see her mother after Wayne's house blows up, she still calling Diane mom. It's when she is going back to see her mother is in the hospital, that she refers to her mother as Diane to Tom.

Hey guess thats why im not writer, never thought of the shoes to be a symbol of the rabbit..
answers that question. is October here yet, this is mind numbing waiting, wondering, and hoping.

There's also the David possibility with the J boat. Widmore could also be involved, he had a sailboat, maybe more than one.
100%
So next season we are going to learn about Kate's marriage. Is there anything we can try and figure out now?

Before or after she went on the run?
Pregnancy test - Posssitive or Negative?
If there was a child where is it?
Possible husbands? or mystery man?
Is Kate's ex-husband alive, dead or missing?

What Gregg Nations said about Kate and Season 3 (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1044086#post1044086)

What Gregg Nations said about Kate and Season 3 ("http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1044086#post1044086')

That link isn't working (at least for me). :confused:

That link isn't working (at least for me). :confused:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1044086

Fixed . Doesn't work if you put in ' instead of ".

maybe that is who she is running from. conned him out of alot of money and ran.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.phpname=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=238&pos=362 Homecoming. I can't believe it I'm still finding more references to orange.

Let's throw this line out and see if we catch anything:

Kato, like you said, if it were a terminal case they probably wouldn't do an autopsy. But, what if the person (let's say Kate's Dad) was diagnosed with a terminal disease. Now, said terminal disease doesn't have a cure and the only means of holding it off would consist of years of therapy, possibly chemo, and Daddy would be dependant on others for everything. Kate could realize this and decide she doesn't want her Father to go through that. So, the orange juice comes into play.

Alternatively, Daddy could be going through those medical procedures in order to stave off the disease, Kate could see him and the effects the chemo/whatever is having on him and decide to end it.

Edited to add that the alternate theory would happen mere months into the therapy instead of say a year or more.

Okay let me add my two cents here. As a possible scenario, Kate's step-father ( the military one) is dying. Kate can't stand to see him suffer any longer. She decides to assist in ending his life- suffering- with poisoned orange juice. As he is dying, Kate's father whispers to her something about a secret military base on a convert island constructed by Widmore to test new high tech by Hanso. This now links..Kate and her father to Joe Inman to Sayid and to Desmond..

If Jack's father was also at the hospital where this incident occurred - perhaps Jack's father exposed her "murder" then we can link Jack- his father- to Kate, to Anna-Lucia ( bodyguard).

By making her privy to information that Widmore didnt want the world to know, she was doomed to be on that particular flight. Like Santa Rosa Health Institute, the island is being used to warehouse people that Widmore considers too dangerous to allow to wander about the rest of the world. Maybe that is the real connection of the Losties on the island. They all know something that Widmore would prefer to keep secret.

This could explain The Others too.. (The last of the dharma initiative staff stuck on the island after Widmore took a controlling interest in Hanso's corporations.) This also explain why the other's keep insisting on being the good guys. They have taken Kate, Jack and Sawyer because they suspect them to be a spy sent from Widmore. But why do they suspect those particular people?

Therefore, they were all carefully shuttled by handlers, (Libby for Desmond, the marshal, Edward Mars, for Kate, the psychic, Richard Mankin for Clare) into that particular flight. Also, who says. the marshal was REALLY a marshal at all? Maybe he was a bounty hunter hired by Widmore.

One question that has bugged me from the beginning, if getting these particular people to the island was so important, then how could they have been so sure they would have survived the crash? The writers say the crash was real, right? It would make so much more sense if the crash had been faked.

orange juice is my favorite.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/sos_avenger/wheel_of_life.jpg my new tattoo.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/sos_avenger/wheel_of_life.jpg my new tattoo. Wow! that's a pretty intricate design.

One question that has bugged me from the beginning, if getting these particular people to the island was so important, then how could they have been so sure they would have survived the crash? The writers say the crash was real, right? It would make so much more sense if the crash had been faked. The crash was real but were they on that plane?

A flower that looks like an orange blossom has showed up in one of the LE videos. We looked at Juice but not the orange. http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1057912&postcount=42

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_(fruit)

A single mutation in 1820 in an orchard of sweet oranges planted at a monastery in Brazil led to the navel orange, also known as the Washington, Riverside or Bahia navel. A single cutting of the original was then transplanted to Riverside, California in 1870, creating a new market worldwide. The mutation causes a 'twin' fruit, with a smaller orange embedded in the outer fruit opposite the stem. From the outside, the smaller, undeveloped twin leaves a formation at the top of the fruit, looking similar to the human navel. Navel oranges are almost always seedless, and tend to be larger than other sweet oranges. They are produced without pollination, through parthenocarpy.

I knew they had that picture up there for a reason! Thanks for looking into this, Sam....I just knew it had to be important! They slip this innocuous little pic of a plant in there, which everyone's going to ignore in favor of some of the more alarming pics, but that plant has meaning. Especially considering its placement next to that pic of the ova.

:orange: :orange: :orange: :orange:

ETA: Cmcd and I were just saying this morning that Rachel Blake reminded us of your girl Kate here. (http://stophanso.rachelblake.com/img/wig/WEEK1POST5_still.jpg) What with the wig and all...

Hmmm...all of this makes me wonder if Kate ever did any investigating a la Rachel Blake in the past? We've discussed what Kate did (no pun intended) in the past over in Tiberius and this would pretty much cover it...

ahhhh... I think this makes sense... and Locke with the orange in his mouth ...brilliant, I always felt weird about the look Kate gave him.

:orange: :orange: :orange: :orange:

Interesting theory. I've heard the mercy killing rumour but this really strengthen the idea and if it does turn out to be true than it'll also prove the writers really do plan everything long in advance and dont just make it up as they go along.

alot of talk over what the others are going to do the three amigos. so i had this thought.
in hunt for red october. jack is taking a shower, talking himself waht the commander said. then he says how to do get solders off a nuclear sub. bingo, you make them want to get off. so we have three most influencal parties. jack is a doctor, sawyer though a con man seems to have the ability to get folks to do his bidding, and kate - into stuff she may run, but she is first involved.

Ok, so the others, create an inviroment that pushes the limits of human tolereance, forces them to change, "for the greater good". cleanse them of symbols, strip away any thing that reminds them of thier lives, then mess with their minds.
give them visions, sounds and dreams. maybe even imprint false memories to get them to react a certain way. of course the clue is to what end? why. or are they thinking they are lucky and got some real live rats.

no doubt thinking to much, but all i could hear was jack say how do you someone to want to get off a nuclear sub. how do you get folks to do your bidding, fake a situation.
just a thouight..

I started watching season 1 again, looking at it with what we know now.

Walkabout

Jack: Those boars were looking to feed. We have to get rid of the bodies.
Charlie: Bury them? There's a whole bunch in there.
Sayid: More than 20. Digging will be difficult without shovels.
Jack: We're not burying them. We need to burn them.
Kate : They're people.
Jack: I know they're people, Kate.

What does this tell us about Kate's actions in WKD concerning Wayne?

I think this may have been mentioned before but we have no introduction to Locke's first name. It is never mentioned until Kate calls him "John" and we have never seen her with him, until they went on the boar hunt with Michael. When he goes after the boar alone and Kate calls "John" it sounds like she is very familiar with him but when she goes back and tells Jack she refers to him as Mr. Locke as if she doesn't know him very well.

Someone else has suggested this also, that Kate is Phone Sex Helen. I could almost see this happening but for the fact that Kate was in Australia for almost 3 months when Locke talked to Helen in Walkabout. They have been talking for 8 months already. It's possible that Kate had an global cell phone-with a good rate and $89.95 and hour would more than cover that. Locke calls Kate, Helen when he is knocked down. Both of them recognized each others voice, without thinking about how impossible the probibility of that would be.

(for later reference.)

Sam G, often wondered about that too, kates surprise at being called helen.

Wow!!!

HOTRS

Jack: Hey. It's almost time to go.
Kate : I don't want to be Eve.
Jack: No one's asking you to.
Kate: I just can't... dig in.
Jack: Why not? Someone else can stay here, keep a look out, wait for rescue. Why does it have to be you?
Kate: That's not it.

(This goes back to the idea that Kate is on a very important quest. She can't let herself "dig in". She has to keep focused on getting off the Island as soon as she can. In a way, it of reminds me of how Michael was acting about Walt, except we don't know what it is or who Kate is searching for.)
100%
Just read the script for Walkabout and they do have a scene that either was cut or never shot that John introduces himself to Kate.

www.pressexecute.com
KATE: Mr. Locke, how is it you-- (smiles; then)
Sorry... You have a first name?

LOCKE: It’s John.

KATE : John Locke. Like the philosopher.

Locke eyes her, appreciatively. That grin --

LOCKE : Like the philosopher.

KATE: (searching her memory) “Good and evil, reward and punishment, are the only motives to a rational creature...”

She sees Locke and Michael just looking at her, suddenly becomes self-conscious.

KATE:Minored in college.

MICHAEL: Great. And I got an art degree.
(looking around, ironic) Who says higher education doesn’t
prepare you for the real world?

KATE: And where’d you learn all this stuff, John? Tracking, hunting...

Locke continues to look at her before answering...

LOCKE: Well, let’s just say I’ve had time to minor in a few things myself.

Locke continues on, moving past frame as we stay with Kate
and Michael. They follow several steps behind.

MICHAEL: (sardonic, re: Locke) Huh. International Man of Mystery.

Still doesn't mean Phone Sex girl isn't Kate. Most of us know that Evie's other big claim to fame was being a Chat room girl in Canada before she got cast on Lost. This could be an inside joke. They cut from the Helen/Locke scene to commercial and return on Kate and Michael. If you have the DVD it's clearer that this is a possibility.

Locke: I thought you understood Helen. You know me better than anyone.
Helen: John, if we talk any longer, I'm going to have to charge you for another hour. That's another 89.95 and you can't afford that.
Locke: Look, I don't care about the money. I just...
Helen: I'm sorry John, I've got to go.
Locke Helen, Helen. Helen! Helen! He!
[Shot of Kate helping Michael back to camp]
Kate: Hey, hey wait a minute. Let's rest here for a minute.
Michael: I thought the guy with the gimpy leg should be deciding when we rest. What are you doing?
Kate: Trying to boost the transceiver signal. I'm going to climb this tree and attach an antenna.

SamG, I was reading a thread this morning and the snowman joke was mentioned, which made me think that a carrot is orange!! Have we considered this already? I searched this thread for the word Carrot, but the one post that showed up had nothing to do with this.

I have nothing intelligent to add to this observation, but thought with the cool areas your taking this thread and Tibs thread, you may find a way to add this into your searches.

SamG, I was reading a thread this morning and the snowman joke was mentioned, which made me think that a carrot is orange!! Have we considered this already? I searched this thread for the word Carrot, but the one post that showed up had nothing to do with this.

I have nothing intelligent to add to this observation, but thought with the cool areas your taking this thread and Tibs thread, you may find a way to add this into your searches. I hadn't thought about the snowman's carrot but I did think of the canned Dharma carrots.:biggrin:

I hadn't thought about the snowman's carrot but I did think of the canned Dharma carrots.:biggrin:

Only thing I have on carrotts off the top of my head is how good they are for eyesight. And we all know Kate's got killer eyesight, she's a tracker. But that's just an abstract connection, really.

HOTRS

Jack: Hey. It's almost time to go.
Kate : I don't want to be Eve.
Jack: No one's asking you to.
Kate: I just can't... dig in.
Jack: Why not? Someone else can stay here, keep a look out, wait for rescue. Why does it have to be you?
Kate: That's not it.

(This goes back to the idea that Kate is on a very important quest. She can't let herself "dig in". She has to keep focused on getting off the Island as soon as she can. In a way, it of reminds me of how Michael was acting about Walt, except we don't know what it is or who Kate is searching for.)
100%
Just read the script for Walkabout and they do have a scene that either was cut or never shot that John introduces himself to Kate.

www.pressexecute.com
KATE: Mr. Locke, how is it you-- (smiles; then)
Sorry... You have a first name?

LOCKE: It’s John.

KATE : John Locke. Like the philosopher.

Locke eyes her, appreciatively. That grin --

LOCKE : Like the philosopher.

KATE: (searching her memory) “Good and evil, reward and punishment, are the only motives to a rational creature...”

She sees Locke and Michael just looking at her, suddenly becomes self-conscious.

KATE:Minored in college.

MICHAEL: Great. And I got an art degree.
(looking around, ironic) Who says higher education doesn’t
prepare you for the real world?

KATE: And where’d you learn all this stuff, John? Tracking, hunting...

Locke continues to look at her before answering...

LOCKE: Well, let’s just say I’ve had time to minor in a few things myself.

Locke continues on, moving past frame as we stay with Kate
and Michael. They follow several steps behind.

MICHAEL: (sardonic, re: Locke) Huh. International Man of Mystery.

Still doesn't mean Phone Sex girl isn't Kate. Most of us know that Evie's other big claim to fame was being a Chat room girl in Canada before she got cast on Lost. This could be an inside joke. They cut from the Helen/Locke scene to commercial and return on Kate and Michael. If you have the DVD it's clearer that this is a possibility.

Locke: I thought you understood Helen. You know me better than anyone.
Helen: John, if we talk any longer, I'm going to have to charge you for another hour. That's another 89.95 and you can't afford that.
Locke: Look, I don't care about the money. I just...
Helen: I'm sorry John, I've got to go.
Locke Helen, Helen. Helen! Helen! He!
[Shot of Kate helping Michael back to camp]
Kate: Hey, hey wait a minute. Let's rest here for a minute.
Michael: I thought the guy with the gimpy leg should be deciding when we rest. What are you doing?
Kate: Trying to boost the transceiver signal. I'm going to climb this tree and attach an antenna.
Watching "Confidence Man" in the end Sawyer couldn't burn the letter he wrote because that would admit giving up on the quest to find the real "Sawyer" and that is why he also stayed on the beach, hoping to continue his search.

:orange: :hb2: :orange: :hb2: :orange: :hb2: :orange:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, SAM G!

:orange: :hb2: :orange: :hb2: :orange: :hb2: :orange:

Happy Birthday, Sam!!! :hapybday: :holiday: :bdaygrin: :bdaybigr:

Thank you.

Looks like we're going to have a party at "Juice" today. Todell has brought the oranges and cake. (hopefully feeling fine from yesterday.) It looks like Tabby has brought me some mystery present :biggrin:

I'm bringing the champagn. Mimosa's this morning.
:champagn: :champagn: :coffee: :coffee: :hersheys: :hersheys:

:heart::kisss:

Thank you.

Looks like we're going to have a party at "Juice" today. Todell has brought the oranges and cake. (hopefully feeling fine from yesterday.) It looks like Tabby has brought me some mystery present :biggrin:
You're very welcome. It's the secret of LOST...will you be able to resist opening it?;)

:birthday: SamG!!! Have a wonderful day!! :hug: :party:

:birthday: SamG!!! Have a wonderful day!! :hug: :party: Thank You GB!
You're very welcome. It's the secret of LOST...will you be able to resist opening it?;) I hope to resist for at least 6 or 7 seasons but really whatever feels right. I love mysteries. I love this show but would never want them to make it longer than they planned. When they go out I'd love to see them be at the top of their game. I think they already have a place in history as the show that changed TV viewing. It's multinational, multimedia and just starting to probe where the internet and TV will merge. With a TV Network you can only broadcast one show at a time, on the internet you can broadcast all your shows at one time and people can pick and chose when and where they want to watch them.

Got the Birthday Juice Party memo ;)

:hapybday::party: Sam!


:champagn::champagn::champagn: :orange: :orange: :orange: :orange: :orange: mimosa.... YUM. :drunk:

Seems there's a spoiler about the first episode of season 3

The first eps. of the third season is called " A Tale of Two Cities". It will be Kate-centric with flashbacks featuring two new recurring characters. Amelia is a warm motherly type in her 60's and Karl is 20 yrs old and is handsome and sardonic. We have always tried to place who would have sent Kate the letter and money, we may have found her. Karl?

that is deliciously intriguing

that the recurring characters are in a flashback

I'm excited the casting breakdowns are starting to go out. Spoilers will start to come in again and make speculating what's going to happen much more fruitful.

yeah we could all do with some fresh info to chew over

interesting,
the charles dickens novel 'a tale of two cities' begins with the lines
'it was the best of times, it was the worst of times'
or someting like that

Maybe we will see that there is a connection between Kate and Locke? We've been looking for that.

Locke's phone sex girl can't be Kate because that happened right before Locke came to Australia. Kate would have been running for her life, and wouldn't have been able to settle down long enough to have established Locke as a regular client.

Locke's phone sex girl can't be Kate because that happened right before Locke came to Australia. Kate would have been running for her life, and wouldn't have been able to settle down long enough to have established Locke as a regular client.Yes, we've discussed that. Unless, Kate was running with an international cell phone it's highly unlikely. If there's a connection, I think it of n older standing than that. We like connecting Kate, Baseball and Locke.

Love being able to watch the DVD's.
I caught something I had missed before. I'm sure one of many.
In EHH Kate says.

Kate : Jack told me about your job. At least we have jobs again, right?

Never thought about what Kate might have been doing before she was on the run.

She worked in a heath food store; she was the juicer :biggrin:

She worked in a heath food store; she was the juicer :biggrin:
ouch! Maybe we will find out soon.

Hey everyone! I've been away from the boards all summer, but was so glad to come back and see some new discussion on here. I CAN'T wait for Oct. 4th! I'm especially excited that the first episode is supposed to be Kate-centric.

Happy Belated Birthday, Sam_G!

BioGal,

You are Welcome. It's so nice to see people coming back to the boards.

Love being able to watch the DVD's.
I caught something I had missed before. I'm sure one of many.
In EHH Kate says.

Kate : Jack told me about your job. At least we have jobs again, right?

Never thought about what Kate might have been doing before she was on the run.

Very interesting find. From what we've learned about Kate, I've never pictured her working a 9 to 5 job. I've never even envisioned her working. Hopefully well get some info on this in the first eppy. Is it ever going to be Oct??? :chillpill:

Regarding what BioGal said about the first episode:
Probably should have been spoilerfonted that it's rumored to be Kate-centric. But actually it's been spoiled anyway that it will be Jack-centric afterall. There were foilers released by TPTB, and the Kate-centric spoiler appears to be one of those foilers.

Wonder how the Dharma juice injection will hold up without refrigeration?

Wonder how the Dharma juice injection will hold up without refrigeration?
I'm sure it expires when the twinkies do.

I'm sure it expires when the twinkies do.

That means it will be good forever ! :biggrin:

Did we know that Kate was apprehended in the bus station, in Iowa? Because the Season 2 DVD "On Location" segment about "What Kate Did" had a producer (or somebody) talking about converting a post office into a bus station in Iowa.

Did we know that Kate was apprehended in the bus station, in Iowa? Because the Season 2 DVD "On Location" segment about "What Kate Did" had a producer (or somebody) talking about converting a post office into a bus station in Iowa.
I don't know if we were positive the bus station was in Iowa. It does seem to contradict

WKD
Edward It's a long drive back to the arraignment. You comfy? Why now?



Even if is was on the other side of the state it just isn't that long a ride.


http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=8464 oldie but goodie thread

I don't know if we were positive the bus station was in Iowa. It does seem to contradict

WKD
Edward It's a long drive back to the arraignment. You comfy? Why now?

Even if is was on the other side of the state it just isn't that long a ride. Just corney. (sorry)


http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=8464 oldie but goodie thread
Well we think we know that the pictures from Korea set Kate off. The why now pharse kind of haunts me in relation to the over all plot. Why does our adventure begin, in the when ever now is, at the awakening on the beach. What components were necessary to raise the curtin for act I ?

Easy answer the plane crash and button not being pushed/ which I don't buy but even so the above question holds. Why were they assembled for 'why now' ?

Hi guys!! Just thought I would pop in here after the summer break. I am planning on trying to get through all of S2 DVD over the next week. (Yeah, I am slow...I mean I have 4 kids...who has time to watch 14 hours of LOST with 4 kids?!?! LOL!) I was really happy to find out there is commentary of some sort for WKD. Cant wait for more numbers sightings...wheeeeee!!!!!

Hi LostApril

Good to see you back. I haven't watched everything yet. I hope to get it in before the season starts.

More Juice (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1163&pos=338)Tale of Two Cities

more juice

just can't get too much 'hydra' tion

Or Juice the recurring prop.

Thought of this thread last night, Sam. Knew you'd post something about it.

Also, in Lost mag #7, Fredric Lane is interviewed, and he discusses how he didn't know much about Kate and the Marshall's relationship with her, so he didn't know what kind of emotion to put behind certain lines. He specifically cited the Juice line from the airplane, as him playing it with a high level of seriousness because it might imply a lot.

Or Juice the recurring prop.

heh! I'll have to run that by the Others...

More Juice (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=19&pos=80) I was looking at TR and noticed there was more Orange Juice in the episode.

More Juice (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=19&pos=80)I was looking at TR and noticed there was more Orange Juice in the episode.
Good find!

Random thought on juice in LOST: maybe it's an allusion to power, as in the phrase "give it more juice!". Perhaps it's the pursuit of and obsession with power (Benry), or maybe even that the associated person(s) is powerful or important (Kate).

ok now new spoiler stuff. Cassidy will be back in the Sawyer episode and we've wondered if maybe Kate learned her abilities from Cassidy. Why Sawyer mentions this "Birthday Wish" also in Kate's episode it seems the Marshal is going to show up. Also. Kate's Husband. We have speculated about other ways Kate might be associated to the Marshal, being married to his son was one way. Or could Cassidy be related to the Marshal? all interesting possibilities.

i dont remember who cassidy is...

The woman in "The Long Con" with Sawyer.

about kate's possible partner
nathan fillion who plays kevin - kate's husband to be - is one of my favorite actors from one of my fave shows - firefly ( and the film serenity ) and he plays a 'baddy' in buffy called caleb.
i would strongly suspect that he will play a 'baddy' in lost - possibly a bent cop ?
i reckon he may be the one that led kate from being a corn fed girl to having murder in her heart.
( just my speculation ) - but he does 'evil' incredibly well
im quite excited about him being on lost
* resists the urge to go into a rant about the folly of firefly being cancelled *

Ages ago I read the first pages of this thread and I've been going back through the last ones, but I'm afraid I haven't got time to read the 30 / 40 pages in the middle right now, so I'm afraid I don't follow Sam G's earlier post, and I'd like to know what it means.



Sam G >
Cassidy will be back in the Sawyer episode and we've wondered if maybe Kate learned her abilities from Cassidy. Why Sawyer mentions this "Birthday Wish" also in Kate's episode it seems the Marshal is going to show up. Also. Kate's Husband. We have speculated about other ways Kate might be associated to the Marshal, being married to his son was one way. Or could Cassidy be related to the Marshal? all interesting possibilities.




I understand the gist of the thread, but would someone be so kind as to give a brief explanation of, first, if there's a particular reason for wondering about a Kate - Cassidy connection, or is it just a stab in the dark based on all the other tie-ins we've seen, and second, the "birthday wish" comment.

Ages ago I read the first pages of this thread and I've been going back through the last ones, but I'm afraid I haven't got time to read the 30 / 40 pages in the middle right now, so I'm afraid I don't follow Sam G's earlier post, and I'd like to know what it means.

I understand the gist of the thread, but would someone be so kind as to give a brief explanation of, first, if there's a particular reason for wondering about a Kate - Cassidy connection, or is it just a stab in the dark based on all the other tie-ins we've seen, and second, the "birthday wish" comment.

Lucidity can you please go back and spoiler font what I had written? We are in General Theories.

Kate has learned how to be a good fugitive. We speculated that she may have learned this from Cassidy. The Long Con took place somewhere around where Kate lived since Diane showed up in the episode. Sawyer may have seen Kate before although she has never seen him.

There was the person that sent Kate the money and it looked like the letter was written by a female.

We've speculated that Kate may have another connection to the Marshal. Either by being married to his son. The Marshal may have fallen for Kate.

Sam G,
Oops, sorry about the spoiler thing. Don't know why, but it just totally slipped by me that that was a spoiler.

Thanks very much for the catch-up. What about the "birthday wish" though?

The reason the Sawyer comment caught my eye, is a silly little line from way back that's always bugged me : "I made this birthday wish 4 years ago." Is that what you were referring to?

On the subject of Kate and letters, I also always wonder what she put in the raft bottle that she was so desperate to get back.

And yeah, I could definitely imagine a bigger history between the marshall and Kate. There has to be more reason for him hating her so much.

Sam G,
Oops, sorry about the spoiler thing. Don't know why, but it just totally slipped by me that that was a spoiler.

Thanks very much for the catch-up. What about the "birthday wish" though?

The reason the Sawyer comment caught my eye, is a silly little line from way back that's always bugged me : "I made this birthday wish 4 years ago." Is that what you were referring to?

On the subject of Kate and letters, I also always wonder what she put in the raft bottle that she was so desperate to get back.

And yeah, I could definitely imagine a bigger history between the marshall and Kate. There has to be more reason for him hating her so much.

The "Birthday Wish" line has always been important to a bunch of us. It meant to me that Sawyer was aware of Kate before the island but she was not aware of him at the time. He had seen her before or a picture of her and was told about her. Like Sawyer seeing Christian, Sawyer had an idea it might be Jack's father but it wasn't until the last minute that Sawyer decided to tell Jack.

We have been looking for the connection Sawyer could be related to Tom or the Cassidy thing.

I don't think that Kate put a note in the bottle, I think she was looking for Sawyer's.

We have also not seen Kate's response to "Why did they call you James?" Kate may very well know who James Ford is, even though she didn't know what he looked like now. She might have seen childhood pictures of him if he is related to Tom and his trip to Dallas.

Sam et al. new spoiler indicates that for Ep 7, Juliet's FB will at least partially take place in Miami at a university setting. Kate's FB will take place in Miami. Possible cross-over situation, leading us to finally know more about this girl.

Sam et al. new spoiler indicates that for Ep 7, Juliet's FB will at least partially take place in Miami at a university setting. Kate's FB will take place in Miami. Possible cross-over situation, leading us to finally know more about this girl.Sawyer has the "Tampa Job" so we are at least moving things together.

Yes, yes. Finally.

Her next flashback is about . . .
her wedding, isn't it? We've seen shots of her in the dress.

Sawyer's birthday wish comment makes sense if he knew Kate from before, but the fact that Kate doesn't respond by saying "What do you mean?" would imply she wasn't surprised by it, wouldn't it? I suppose she might have just thought it was Sawyer making a Sawyer joke, but it could also be because she knew him, albeit loosely, from before too, and perhaps knew he liked her. It would seem strange that she never said anything about it, but it's possible.
A question, have we seen how Sawyer knew about Kate being a fugitive? I'm referring to the time he told everyone about Kate being a criminal so she didn't get his place on the raft.

With regard to the messages in the bottle, I'm pretty sure Kate did put one in, and as it says on the LostPedia page (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Bottle) :

Kate pours out the messages and reads her letter silently, and seems slightly disturbed by it.

Her next flashback is about . . .
her wedding, isn't it? We've seen shots of her in the dress.

Sawyer's birthday wish comment makes sense if he knew Kate from before, but the fact that Kate doesn't respond by saying "What do you mean?" would imply she wasn't surprised by it, wouldn't it? I suppose she might have just thought it was Sawyer making a Sawyer joke, but it could also be because she knew him, albeit loosely, from before too, and perhaps knew he liked her. It would seem strange that she never said anything about it, but it's possible.
A question, have we seen how Sawyer knew about Kate being a fugitive? I'm referring to the time he told everyone about Kate being a criminal so she didn't get his place on the raft.

With regard to the messages in the bottle, I'm pretty sure Kate did put one in, and as it says on the LostPedia page (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Bottle) :

That is Lost-Pedia's interpretation of the scene. Anyone can write or add there. As for knowing Kate was a fugutuve - Sawyer overheard the Marshal and Jack. I think that's what Sawyer said.

...and Found

Sun: Kate! Those are private. Kate, stop. What are you doing?
Kate : We didn't, uh... I didn't say goodbye.
Sun: Sawyer?

I have to do this, Clementine's are a variety of oranges.

Florida oranges

sorry to keep banging on about this but

with nathan fillian playing kate's partner in ep 6 i think we will see why kate is attracted to sawyer - both are a similar physical 'type' and similar in charisma.
i think there will be a lot of parallels between the two characters...

OMG it's spoilerpalooza in the juice thread!! Oh but go ahead and keep discussing, I'm not complaining about being left out of all these spoiler fonted posts, it just tell me that something juicy is about to happen :)

Well we know she can drug people useing juice...

...God i love this show.

Was it definitely not iced tea?

Btw, Kate's color in the FB tonight was *yellow*. Everything on her and around her was yellow. I think to represent how happy she was with Kevin.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1196&pos=662 Juice shows up. It looks like ice tea is what whas used to knock out Kevin.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1196&pos=662 Juice shows up. It looks like ice tea is what whas used to knock out Kevin.

Oh man! When she came out with those tall, cold ones I ghasped & chanted (albeit in my head...) "Juice! Juice! Juice! Juice! Juice!" :biggrin:

Yeah, I agree that it was iced tea, but I do think we can link her actions there back to what the Marshall said in the Pilot about Juice. He knows her history of lacing drinks. :smile:

Yeah, I agree that it was iced tea, but I do think we can link her actions there back to what the Marshall said in the Pilot about Juice. He knows her history of lacing drinks. :smile:Yes, and we picked up on that a long time ago. We went through the possibilities of what Orange Juice would do mixed with certain things. Safe road, mix it with ice tea.

Yes, that is Kate's MO.

As you both said it more important that Kate puts drugs in drinks, but regarding the drink that she serves Kevin, I'm not sure if it's ice tea with a possible lemon in it or apple juice.

Hello all!!
I know I said I would post this a little while back (I hate working all the time!!) & I apologize for not getting to it sooner. Without further adieu, the excerpt from Lost Magazine from Fredric Lane (Edwars Mars):

LOST: Do you have any theories about the show?
LANE: During the pilot, JJ Abrams would say things like "When you pick up that glass of water and drink it, it is very important." And you stop asking "Why?" really quickly because they wouldnt tell you. You would say "How important? On a scale of 1 to 10, important in a good way or in a bad way?" They'd give you "Well, it is in a life or death way, at about 8.5." For me, everything has to be specific. I had to make up things like Kate is an alien or Kate is a biological experiment. In the very first scene I ever did with Evangeline - which was the first scene she ever did as an actress - I say to Kate "Are you sure you dont want any more juice?" Now that seems like a simple line but when you dont know what is going on or that she might be an alien or an experiment, maybe this juice suddenly becomes very important like the sugar water in the original Men In Black. I did things like that which made the lines interesting.

*******************
Now it seems 8.5 was very fitting indeed.

what a great vindication for this theory we saw in I Do

i doff my hat to sam and all involved.

i love it when those small details end up meaning something important 2 years on !

( and it seems i had it all wrong about kate ! )

Perhaps an obscure reference...but with all the "Orange" references in LOST...and the Time anomalies (or at least hints at such)...and the documented
PTB reference to the show and post-9/11 (there is an interview about such), and the color-coded security level system of the U.S was apparently adopted post-9/11...
Is this why "Orange" is so embedded in LOST?

To clarify,
Is it meaningful that the Orange security level was adopted AFTER 9/11/2001 in Real Life, and there are "Orange" and "Time Anomaly" references in LOST?
If not, disregard;) and I will resume grasping at straws...;)

Tabby, without reading your spoilers, I just had an image of you grasping a straw, plunging it into an orange and drinking some juice :D

Tabby, without reading your spoilers, I just had an image of you grasping a straw, plunging it into an orange and drinking some juice :D
That makes me think of Florida (where you can get orange juice in plastic oranges with straws, LOL)...and wasn't Kate in Florida?;)

:LockeOranges:

Hello all!!
I know I said I would post this a little while back (I hate working all the time!!) & I apologize for not getting to it sooner. Without further adieu, the excerpt from Lost Magazine from Fredric Lane (Edwars Mars):

LOST: Do you have any theories about the show?
LANE: During the pilot, JJ Abrams would say things like "When you pick up that glass of water and drink it, it is very important." And you stop asking "Why?" really quickly because they wouldnt tell you. You would say "How important? On a scale of 1 to 10, important in a good way or in a bad way?" They'd give you "Well, it is in a life or death way, at about 8.5." For me, everything has to be specific. I had to make up things like Kate is an alien or Kate is a biological experiment. In the very first scene I ever did with Evangeline - which was the first scene she ever did as an actress - I say to Kate "Are you sure you dont want any more juice?" Now that seems like a simple line but when you dont know what is going on or that she might be an alien or an experiment, maybe this juice suddenly becomes very important like the sugar water in the original Men In Black. I did things like that which made the lines interesting.

*******************
Now it seems 8.5 was very fitting indeed.


That was well worth the wait. :73happy:
How cool is it that it was Evangeline's first scene ever. Props to Sam G for the funnest and longest running theory ever. :biggrin:

Perhaps an obscure reference...but with all the "Orange" references in LOST...and the Time anomalies (or at least hints at such)...and the documented
PTB reference to the show and post-9/11 (there is an interview about such), and the color-coded security level system of the U.S was apparently adopted post-9/11...
Is this why "Orange" is so embedded in LOST?

To clarify,
Is it meaningful that the Orange security level was adopted AFTER 9/11/2001 in Real Life, and there are "Orange" and "Time Anomaly" references in LOST?
If not, disregard;) and I will resume grasping at straws...;)


I saw that today too but didn't think of this thread. *grasps at straws*
I think your onto something.


I did come across a possible orange spoiler
A Clockwork Orange will be referenced in Lost. One of the possible meanings of the title is that the Malay word for "man" is "orang" (Anthony Burgess spent some of his life in Malaysia), hence words such as "orangutan" which literally means "man of the jungle". This means "clockwork orange" can be taken to mean "clockwork man" which describes Alex, the story's main character after he is brainwashed and essentially becomes an automaton with no choice.

Was Joop an Orangutan?

I did come across a possible orange spoiler
A Clockwork Orange will be referenced in Lost. One of the possible meanings of the title is that the Malay word for "man" is "orang" (Anthony Burgess spent some of his life in Malaysia), hence words such as "orangutan" which literally means "man of the jungle". This means "clockwork orange" can be taken to mean "clockwork man" which describes Alex, the story's main character after he is brainwashed and essentially becomes an automaton with no choice.

Was Joop an Orangutan?

Yes, I believe that he was! (OMG, did we--I--miss that connection?)

And great catch on the "A Clockwork Orange" spoiler...I saw it but did not think of this thread! Perchance the "clockwork" is another clue (TIme)?

Perhaps an obscure reference...but with all the "Orange" references in LOST...and the Time anomalies (or at least hints at such)...and the documented
PTB reference to the show and post-9/11 (there is an interview about such), and the color-coded security level system of the U.S was apparently adopted post-9/11...
Is this why "Orange" is so embedded in LOST?

To clarify,
Is it meaningful that the Orange security level was adopted AFTER 9/11/2001 in Real Life, and there are "Orange" and "Time Anomaly" references in LOST?
If not, disregard;) and I will resume grasping at straws...;)

I like it. I was debating whether or not it was dumb to bring up the recent reference to A Clockwork Orange, with Karl. My conclusion: yes, it's too dumb ( or at least too much of a stretch, as it's not directly mentioned on the show), but the meaning behind the title phrase is interesting enough to distract from the dumbness:

from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange):Burgess wrote that the title was a reference to an alleged old Cockney expression 'as queer as a clockwork orange'. ¹ Due to his time serving in the British Colonial Office in Malaya, Burgess thought that the phrase could be used punningly to refer to a mechanically responsive (clockwork) human (orang, Malay for 'person').

Burgess wrote in his later introduction, A Clockwork Orange Resucked, that a creature who can only perform good or evil is 'a clockwork orange—meaning that he has the appearance of an organism lovely with colour and juice, but is in fact only a clockwork toy to be wound up by God or the Devil; or the almighty state.'

In his essay "Clockwork Oranges"², Burgess asserts that 'this title would be appropriate for a story about the application of Pavlovian, or mechanical, laws to an organism which, like a fruit, was capable of colour and sweetness'. This title alludes to the protagonist's negatively conditioned responses to feelings of evil which prevent the exercise of his free will.


Interesting that 'orang' is Malay for 'person,' I thought. And let's not forget Joop, orang as they get. :smile:
100%
That was well worth the wait. :73happy:
How cool is it that it was Evangeline's first scene ever. Props to Sam G for the funnest and longest running theory ever. :biggrin:




I saw that today too but didn't think of this thread. *grasps at straws*
I think your onto something.


I did come across a possible orange spoiler
A Clockwork Orange will be referenced in Lost. One of the possible meanings of the title is that the Malay word for "man" is "orang" (Anthony Burgess spent some of his life in Malaysia), hence words such as "orangutan" which literally means "man of the jungle". This means "clockwork orange" can be taken to mean "clockwork man" which describes Alex, the story's main character after he is brainwashed and essentially becomes an automaton with no choice.

Was Joop an Orangutan?

LOL, I must have been typing at the same time!
ETA: or didn't read down the page enough!:redface:

It seems very appropriate because my first post ever on the Fuselage concerned Orangutans. The merging of Juice & Joop.

Yea! to Fredric Lane he knows how to deliver a line and to Evie, who is really turning into a fantastic actress. JJ knows how to pick 'em.

Jennifer Garner doesn't get the credit she deserves, but if you will watch the pilot episode of Alias there is one scene that will show you what a wonderful actress she is.

lucky4me8: your quoted definition from Wiki
about "Clockwork Orange" is quite interesting, especially with regard to the "good or evil", "mechanically responsive human", and "prevent the exercise of his free will". It seems in keeping with some of the LOST theories being discussed, and some of the themes and references on the show.

PTB reference to the show and post-9/11 (there is an interview about such), and the color-coded security level system of the U.S was apparently adopted post-9/11...
Is this why "Orange" is so embedded in LOST?


There is orange but there is also Green, Blue, Yellow, Orange, and Red, from lowest to highest threat in that order. Orange means high, but the color is not particularly relative to 9/11 or the chart

I do hope we see a flashback where she poisons the Marshall, it would be very fitting
Some silly speculation but I have heard people say the Marshall could be Tom's (her exboyfriends) father.
In that scene in Post 1 he seems to be treating her like a little kid, like he's known her for years.
But in What Kate Did it seems she's meeting him for the first time( at the train station) either that or when she looks back at him she's hoping he'll let her off the hook or she can make a run for it or something.
But in the car when he's telling her life story her "You don't know me." quote throws me off

Just throwing this in here because its about Kate and maybe an orange connection
2 Weeks Kate was suppoe to be in for a bad time. Alex said she wasn't supposed to be in the cage. Maybe like the main character in A Clockwork Orange she too was to be treated. The treatment to deviolentize (sp) took 2 weeks

Just throwing this in here because its about Kate and maybe an orange connection
2 Weeks Kate was suppoe to be in for a bad time. Alex said she wasn't supposed to be in the cage. Maybe like the main character in A Clockwork Orange she too was to be treated. The treatment to deviolentize (sp) took 2 weeks

Other than Sayid (and Jin), Kate and Sawyer are probably the most violent on the island. That would explain why Jack originally supposed to be there (if that's the case).

Other than Sayid (and Jin), Kate and Sawyer are probably the most violent on the island. That would explain why Jack originally supposed to be there (if that's the case).Interesting how you look at violent. Jack had a hand in Sawyers torture. He has also attacked several people on the island. Locke after Boone died, His dad when he suspected Christian might be having an affair with Sarah, Ethan...there is a list. Although we see Jack may have had reason, he reacts violently.

Perhaps an obscure reference...but with all the "Orange" references in LOST...and the Time anomalies (or at least hints at such)...and the documented
PTB reference to the show and post-9/11 (there is an interview about such), and the color-coded security level system of the U.S was apparently adopted post-9/11...
Is this why "Orange" is so embedded in LOST?

To clarify,
Is it meaningful that the Orange security level was adopted AFTER 9/11/2001 in Real Life, and there are "Orange" and "Time Anomaly" references in LOST?
If not, disregard;) and I will resume grasping at straws...;)I wonder if each of the Losties (or groupings of them) have a special color associated with their tendencies toward violent actions? I wonder if when we see Orange and Time Anomalies together, it means that Time is dangerous on the Island?

That was well worth the wait. :73happy:
How cool is it that it was Evangeline's first scene ever. Props to Sam G for the funnest and longest running theory ever. :biggrin:

I saw that today too but didn't think of this thread. *grasps at straws*
I think your onto something.

I did come across a possible orange spoiler
A Clockwork Orange will be referenced in Lost. One of the possible meanings of the title is that the Malay word for "man" is "orang" (Anthony Burgess spent some of his life in Malaysia), hence words such as "orangutan" which literally means "man of the jungle". This means "clockwork orange" can be taken to mean "clockwork man" which describes Alex, the story's main character after he is brainwashed and essentially becomes an automaton with no choice.

Was Joop an Orangutan?Wouldn't it be strange if Ben had a lot of the Others brainwashed, like what's being done to Karl, and Juliet didn't know about it? Her comments about thinking that Free Will still existed on the Island may play a bigger role than it seems. Maybe, Free Will does exist, but Ben is playing with it with his mind-melding movies.
Yes, I believe that he was! (OMG, did we--I--miss that connection?)

And great catch on the "A Clockwork Orange" spoiler...I saw it but did not think of this thread! Perchance the "clockwork" is another clue (TIme)?Someone has made time a dangerous thing on the Island?

I like it. I was debating whether or not it was dumb to bring up the recent reference to A Clockwork Orange, with Karl. My conclusion: yes, it's too dumb ( or at least too much of a stretch, as it's not directly mentioned on the show), but the meaning behind the title phrase is interesting enough to distract from the dumbness:

from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange):

Interesting that 'orang' is Malay for 'person,' I thought. And let's not forget Joop, orang as they get. :smile:
100%

LOL, I must have been typing at the same time!
ETA: or didn't read down the page enough!:redface:What is the brainwashing movie that Karl is watching supposed to do? Make him less violent? His actions less violent or his thoughts of wanting to leave Otherville and rebel against Ben less intense or nonexistent?
It seems very appropriate because my first post ever on the Fuselage concerned Orangutans. The merging of Juice & Joop.

Yea! to Fredric Lane he knows how to deliver a line and to Evie, who is really turning into a fantastic actress. JJ knows how to pick 'em.

Jennifer Garner doesn't get the credit she deserves, but if you will watch the pilot episode of Alias there is one scene that will show you what a wonderful actress she is.I didn't think that Evie was that impressive in most of Season One, but by the end of the season, I had a higher opinion of her acting abilities. I think that she has really grown as an actress in the past few years.

lucky4me8: your quoted definition from Wiki
about "Clockwork Orange" is quite interesting, especially with regard to the "good or evil", "mechanically responsive human", and "prevent the exercise of his free will". It seems in keeping with some of the LOST theories being discussed, and some of the themes and references on the show. This makes me think of Juliet and the bookclub again. Has Ben somehow damaged the Free Will of Otherville and it's villagers? How does this connect with Ben saying to Jack, "I want you to want to do the operation..."...was that some sort of trigger comment that would make Jack decide to want to do the operation (even if he decided to do it because it would help Kate and Sawyer if he did it successfully)?

There is orange but there is also Green, Blue, Yellow, Orange, and Red, from lowest to highest threat in that order. Orange means high, but the color is not particularly relative to 9/11 or the chart

I do hope we see a flashback where she poisons the Marshall, it would be very fitting
Some silly speculation but I have heard people say the Marshall could be Tom's (her exboyfriends) father.
In that scene in Post 1 he seems to be treating her like a little kid, like he's known her for years.
But in What Kate Did it seems she's meeting him for the first time( at the train station) either that or when she looks back at him she's hoping he'll let her off the hook or she can make a run for it or something.
But in the car when he's telling her life story her "You don't know me." quote throws me offMaybe, some Losties are more prone to physical violence than the rest of the group...and they are being color-coded to label them...

Just throwing this in here because its about Kate and maybe an orange connection
2 Weeks Kate was suppoe to be in for a bad time. Alex said she wasn't supposed to be in the cage. Maybe like the main character in A Clockwork Orange she too was to be treated. The treatment to deviolentize (sp) took 2 weeksI wonder if Ben was going to make Kate and Sawyer watch the same movie that Karl is watching...because they are prone to violence and Karl was, too, in that he was interested in disregarding the type of life that was going on in Otherville and seemed to think what was going on is wrong...
Interesting how you look at violent. Jack had a hand in Sawyers torture. He has also attacked several people on the island. Locke after Boone died, His dad when he suspected Christian might be having an affair with Sarah, Ethan...there is a list. Although we see Jack may have had reason, he reacts violently.The difference that I can see is that Jack has been less physically violent on the Island and off versus Kate and Sawyer. I know that we will see him in a fight in a future episode, but does he start it? Jack seems to be prone to violent thoughts, but not violent actions...he gets very angry and comes to a boiling point, gets verbally violent, but not physically violent. It's very interesting since his dad was emotionally abusive, IMHO, that Jack is this way...he's passive aggressive, in a way...but, some say that emotional abuse is worse than physical abuse...

I think Kate managed to knock out the Marshal one time, by putting something in his juice, and getting away. We shall see


I haven't read the other replies yet so I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but I have also wondered if Kate doesn't have more of an involved history with the Marshal then we already know about. He seemed to take a very personal interest in her, as though something she has done affected him on a very personal level, and I am thinking of something more than just drugging his juice. I can't put my finger on it just yet, but I am convinced that there is a lot more to their story!

Junie,

Jack does answer with violent actions but so do many of the males on the island. He has also handled Kate roughly. Kate and Sawyer are secretive but I don't see them being more violent than Jack has been on the island.

Then there is
I dont think they had Karl 2 weeks wonder what the effect of interupting the treatment will be?

Junie,

Jack does answer with violent actions but so do many of the males on the island. He has also handled Kate roughly. Kate and Sawyer are secretive but I don't see them being more violent than Jack has been on the island.I think that I mesh the pre-Island personalities and the since-they've-been-on-the-Island personalities. Jack does seem to have become more aggressive since he's landed on the Island, although we will see him in a fight in his fb, as I know that you know...
Then there is
I dont think they had Karl 2 weeks wonder what the effect of interupting the treatment will be? That's an interesting question, coupons...

LMAO. I can't believe (and am AMAZED) that this thread is still going on...not only still going on but still as interesting as it is.

It's enough to drive a person mad reading the 'juice' thread alone.

Good work JJ. YOU RULE.

:eek2::hide:


So does anyone think she will poison anyone else?

I mean at this point it's a little alarming whenever Kate and Sun decide to sit beneath a tree together...you just know someone is gonna fall sick!

:74happy::clapping::ntworthy::biglaugh:

I find it ironic too that she seems to be the official "fruit-picker" for the group (or was at least awhile back)...

Wait... oranges? what about a clockwork orange? It could be related with the brainwashing video...maybe...

Wait... oranges? what about a clockwork orange? It could be related with the brainwashing video...maybe...
Nice catch!!! Kinda relates to Locke's orange peel smile in the Pilot!!! :biggrin:

We discussed the possibility of Sawyer and Tom being connected.

We now know that Kate got married after she was on the run and was living around Miami.

Well according to the Spoilers (not a big one, for those who don't like to read major Spoilers) :

Cassidy is coming up in an ep soon, and, according to the people who keep track of whose fb is going to be each ep, it is supposed to be a Kate fb. :ohmy:

Luc It's here:

Somewhere we did mention maybe that where Kate got he running skills from

Sam G,
Yeah, I've read all the talk here about the possible Kate - Sawyer - Cassidy pre-Island connection, that's why I thought the potential Cassidy / Kate flashback was so interesting.

I also read recently a comment from Gregg Nations that Sawyer's "That was my birthday wish x years ago" WASN'T just a throw-away comment. But I guess you guys had already mentioned that here, right?

Luc,

I don't think you were here when the N.U.M.B.E.R.S thread started. You got LOST a year later in Spain?

Anyway, any 4,8,15,16,23,42 reference was jumped on and there were lots of 4 year ones for the Losties.

I'm happy. No line like that could posssibly be a throw away line.

I meant that it's interesting because for Sawyer to say that he had that birthday wish 4 years ago (I put in the x because I didn't know how many years he had said) seems to imply he knew Kate before the island, i.e. when he had wished for her jumping on top of him. But I imagined it was probably just a Sawyer comment, but Gregg has said that it wasn't, i.e. maybe it WAS a clue that he knew Kate before.

And yeah, I got into Lost just before last Summer. Funnily enough, it was this board that got me interested so I downloaded an ep and got hooked. I don't think they even show it on Spanish TV.

I meant that it's interesting because for Sawyer to say that he had that birthday wish 4 years ago (I put in the x because I didn't know how many years he had said) seems to imply he knew Kate before the island, i.e. when he had wished for her jumping on top of him. But I imagined it was probably just a Sawyer comment, but Gregg has said that it wasn't, i.e. maybe it WAS a clue that he knew Kate before.

And yeah, I got into Lost just before last Summer. Funnily enough, it was this board that got me interested so I downloaded an ep and got hooked. I don't think they even show it on Spanish TV.

Oh, I agree I think Sawyer was aware of Kate but I don't think Kate knew Sawyer.

There's still the mystery woman that wrote to Kate and told her her mother was dying and sent Kate money. Cassidy was added to the list. 4 years before the plane crash also means Kate wasn't on the run yet.

And yeah, I got into Lost just before last Summer. Funnily enough, it was this board that got me interested so I downloaded an ep and got hooked. I don't think they even show it on Spanish TV.

Hi, yeah, Lost is on SPanish Tv as "Perdidos".

lacenaire,
Yeah, but is it on?
I don't watch TV, only some programmes downloaded from the internet (Lost, Smallville and The O.C., so I'm not sure. But I think they showed some of Season 2 and then stopped. Certainly Spanish people aren't aware of it as a series.

Well, yes WE are.:rolleyes:
My location, Hesperia, is just the old Greek name for EspaÑa.
El Jardín de las Hespérides debería andar por la huerta murciana ;)
We can see it on Sattv. TVE1 aired season 1, the beginning of season 2 but you are right they have discontinnued it. TVE is an expert in destroying hit shows with sudden change of airing times, airing 4 episodes in a row one day and then nothing for two months and so on.

Qué le vamos a hacer.
The real fans watch it on line.
I make subtitles for the show for everyone to watch for 0,0€.:cool:
Visita esta página para más información
http://www.sharerip.com/index.php?topic=20079.msg163777#msg163777

What I really like is that LOST is very international.

I thought of something that might be a clue, or not. About Hurley...he wears an orange T-shirt a lot...and his apparent real first name "Hugo" is how you pronounce the Spanish word "jugo", and "jugo" is Spanish for "juice".:biggrin:

And of course, Hurley's family is Hispanic and probably speak Spanish. Btw, "orange juice" in Spanish would be "jugo de naranja".

lacenaire >
Well, yes WE are.:rolleyes:
My location, Hesperia, is just the old Greek name for EspaÑa.
El Jardín de las Hespérides debería andar por la huerta murciana ;)
We can see it on Sattv. TVE1 aired season 1, the beginning of season 2 but you are right they have discontinnued it. TVE is an expert in destroying hit shows with sudden change of airing times, airing 4 episodes in a row one day and then nothing for two months and so on.

Qué le vamos a hacer.
The real fans watch it on line.
I make subtitles for the show for everyone to watch for 0,0€.:cool:
Visita esta página para más información
http://www.sharerip.com/index.php?to...3777#msg163777 (http://www.sharerip.com/index.php?topic=20079.msg163777#msg163777)




Are you Spanish then? I'm English but been living in Spain for about ten years now.
I work in an English school, and NONE of my students have ever seen more than a couple of eps of Lost. I totally agree that TVE (Spanish National Television) did a terrible, terrible job of promoting the show. Real shame. Whereabouts is Hesperia then?

TabbyRasa,
Clever catch on Hugo = Jugo, but I'm afraid Jugo isn't really the common term for Juice. Orange Juice would be Zumo de Naranja, for example.

Hi Lucidity

Glad to know a little from you. I can't think of any proffession more useful than being a teacher.

I am a Basque who lives in Spain with Catalán, Navarre and Asturian roots. That makes me 100% Spanish.

In European Spanish we say «zumo», that is true, but «Jugo» is the common term in American Spanish. Jugo comes from the Latin, zumo from the Greek.

If you are suggesting
Hugo -> Jugo Juice / Reyes King
I got a nice synchronicity for you.
There's a Company in Sevilla (La Florida) that uses that brand name.
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3021/labeljuicekingdo3.jpg

My bet is that if the writers of Lost are introducing Spanish ciphers into the show they would use terms used in all nearby Spanish speaking countries: US, Cuba, Méjico or Puerto Rico. Javier Grillo Marxuach is Puerto Riqueño for that matter.

Hi Lucidity

Glad to know a little from you. I can't think of any proffession more useful than being a teacher.

I am a Basque who lives in Spain with Catalán, Navarre and Asturian roots. That makes me 100% Spanish.

In European Spanish we say «zumo», that is true, but «Jugo» is the common term in American Spanish. Jugo comes from the Latin, zumo from the Greek.

If you are suggesting
Hugo -> Jugo Juice / Reyes King
I got a nice synchronicity for you.
There's a Company in Sevilla (La Florida) that uses that brand name.
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3021/labeljuicekingdo3.jpg

My bet is that if the writers of Lost are introducing Spanish ciphers into the show they would use terms used in Cuba, Méjico or Puerto Rico. Javier Grillo Marxuach is Puerto Riqueño for that matter.

Wow! and I love their logo

Lacenaire,
So in South America they call Orange Juice Jugo de Naranja ? That's weird.

I remember another Spanish term that seemed to mix in with everything was "the Vela Incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_Incident)" (in case anyone doesn't know about it it happened the same date, though not year, as the Oceanic crash) - Vela meaning Candle, as in Marvin Candle.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1269-490.html Juice in a death scene

How about spider juice?

The spider kind of squished orange.

Getting ready. Crossing my fingers I think we may have called a few things right a while ago.

Sam, I don't know if anyone posted it, but Ben had OJ in his rearranging fridge, in TMFT.

We got the OJ on Zuckerman's table but totally missed the OJ in the frige.
100%
The Long Con
Sawyer: It's all in the details.

WTCMB
Kate: Don't hold back. He won't talk if the details are off.
Jason: You and your details, Maggie. Okay, hero... shut up.

I think I'm seeing through the Long Con. Kate learned the Con game from Cassidy, who learned it from Sawyer. Cassidy could be the person that sent Kate the letter and the money when her mom was sick.

Kate also didn't like being played and I think she understood the Long Con.

Ding, ding, ding!!!!!!I think we called this winner. It is only a short step to see how Sawyer may have run into at least a picture of Kate so he could make his birthday wish.

Ahem. Has anyone read Insider Scoop's synopsis for One of Us? Apparently...
...Juliet is brought to the Island after drinking OJ mixed with tranquilizers.
Ha!

Ahem. Has anyone read Insider Scoop's synopsis for One of Us? Apparently...
...Juliet is brought to the Island after drinking OJ mixed with tranquilizers.
Ha!

Now TPTB are just copying us. We mentioned that about, maybe, Kate and her dad. We even got into the interaction certain medications might have with OJ.

Very funny!

So, in One of Us tonight (spoiler because it hasn't aired all over the country yet) Juliette drinks down some laced OJ before taking her trip through "time and space." I know some of you probably knew this before due to spoilers, but were you guys shouting at your screens?

Yeah, I couldn't believe it.

If Juliet's OJ knocked her out for her trip to the island, did Kate's OJ on the plane actually keep her awake for some reason and that's why she was the only one who didn't lose consciousness when the plane dropped?

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1272-179.html

That was really strange how Richard openly poured the tranquilizer into the cup and casually told
Juliet he drugged the drink, but it does go along with the others desires to have people choose to do things of their own "free" will

everytime i see orange juice, even in my own fridge, i think of Sam G. :)

Yea!!!!

How many show have a theory around a food item? The layers of LOST.

Yea!!!!

How many show have a theory around a food item? The layers of LOST.

I'm wondering whether the theory reflects the show or the show reflects the theory? Interesting in either case.

I'm wondering whether the theory reflects the show or the show reflects the theory? Interesting in either case.
I think this was Sam G's shout out from TPTB. Very cool Sam, I thought of you too when I saw that scene. :biggrin:

Cin, I too would love to think this a great shout out to Sam!

Can we really believe that it was simply a tranquilizer added to Juliet's "drink"? And why did she ask no questions why only she had to take the concoction and not Ethan? Why would "undersea travel" only affect her, or only a first-timer to require sedation (one would thikn travel through time and space would be more akin to requiring sedation, if one were not trained as an astronaut)? A more plausible excuse to surreptitiously deliver some medicine would have been a cocktail of oral immunization or somesuch.

First we have to ask who was or wasn't given the tranquilizer. Then, what if the cocktail is the cause of inability for all of the Others to conceive, or "be infertile", and what other horrors will it do? Is fertility the desired effect, or a side effect? We have long surmised that the Others have super strength, and intellect, inhuman in factwhat if this were some serious genetic mutation agent, for example, for genetic re-engineering, and the strains on the body caused by such change was the reason for restraint, not "the bumpy ride".

That was some morning screwdriver!

Why didn't I take the Blue pill?
-Mang

exactly Mang,, why should we trust richard albert about what he was putting in the drink...

he's probably slightly capable of lying

medusa powder?

exactly Mang,, why should we trust richard albert about what he was putting in the drink...

he's probably slightly capable of lying

I suppose it stated somehere on a consent form that drinking the screwdriver was a binding contract representing her direct consent to willingly forego all legal rights as it relates to her trek, her research, her tasks ahead, and perhaps trifle things like her humanity, motherhood and her soul...

One way or another the juice should have run it's course.
So I think that opens the door to why not. Maybe the Others are invincible maybe not. I just think they would put her through a complete physical before letting her on 'the island'. Where they may or may not of implanted something. During the process body functions would be handled.

I'm watching the streaming video and the commercials are for the Florida Orange Juice.

Hey Sam, I don't recall if we've discovered this already, but I came across an interesting tidbit yesterday.


Q. What is the colour of the black box in a commercial aircraft?
A. Orange.

Hey Sam, I don't recall if we've discovered this already, but I came across an interesting tidbit yesterday.


Q. What is the colour of the black box in a commercial aircraft?
A. Orange.

I've been posting in several threads about the black box being in the tail section of the plane. I knew it was orange but never managed to get that over here. Thanks Walt, as always, you are equsitely detailed.

Raised Catholic (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=75191)

One more piece of information on Kate

Looks like Jacob has some kind of 'juice' in those containers on the table

Just putting several things in here.

We've mentioned many times before that Kate says she remembers the whole plane crash, she seems to be the only one.

It's starting to look to me like people's FB's are changing since Desmond's button pushing.
Several points in Charlie's FB's don't match information we were first given.
Can't swim/Swim
How he got the Drive Shaft ring
Relationship to his father

Juliet drank juice and she knew what was put in it.

Is it going to turn out that the people that seemed to be so bad in the beginning are actually the good ones. Kate and Sawyer? The better you were the wose the memories they gave you?

Hey Sam


I popped in just to change the post count ...... it was 666, and found your most interesting post.


I have never read a theory about this and I'm intrigued. Have you come up with any more examples.


In case no one has told you lately .... you rock! :biggrin:

Walt,

Although, it was in a FB, Kate told the Marshal he didn't know anything about her.

Edward: You look worried. I'd be worried, too, I was you. But you've got to stay positive, kiddo. You know, there's always that off chance that they'll believe your story. I know I sure did.
Kate : I don't care what you believe.

S2E9
Kate: Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
Edward:I do have you all figured out.
Kate: You don't know anything about me.

drinking the screwdriver was a binding contract

It echoed Kate's drinking the juice offered by Mars as they were enroute - which might have symbolized her reluctant resignation to some task on the island.

Walt,

Although, it was in a FB, Kate told the Marshal he didn't know anything about her.

Edward: You look worried. I'd be worried, too, I was you. But you've got to stay positive, kiddo. You know, there's always that off chance that they'll believe your story. I know I sure did.
Kate : I don't care what you believe.

S2E9
Kate: Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
Edward:I do have you all figured out.
Kate: You don't know anything about me.

this conversation has always gotten to me.. he pushes the why now issue!
clearly there were issues before that should have warrented kate's reaction. or possible reaction.

does the color orange have any memory inhancement qualities.. like some smells, that color brings out either emotion or memory!
could that be the reason the color of the black box - its about memory!!!
Locke smiling at her with orange peel.. an unsciousce attempt to produce memory??

this conversation has always gotten to me.. he pushes the why now issue!
clearly there were issues before that should have warrented kate's reaction. or possible reaction.

does the color orange have any memory inhancement qualities.. like some smells, that color brings out either emotion or memory!
could that be the reason the color of the black box - its about memory!!!
Locke smiling at her with orange peel.. an unsciousce attempt to produce memory??

Zatherran you may like Lucidity's The Sewing Kit (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=66980) thread. If you haven't checked it out already, you might bring this up there. We have been talking about the colors that are used on the show.

Doing the REWIND. Rewatching season 1 right now. Wondering if the pilot episode is actually when Kate and Jack went back to the Island? Like FBYE Desmond doesn't remember everything only certain things in regards to Charlie.

morning Sam G I just went to the circle theory and wow.. puts alot of puzzle pieces together for me..
but we are on the right path, i believe that.. its taken us 3 years, but we are finally seeing things that make sense now.. what a great show... :)

Walt,

Although, it was in a FB, Kate told the Marshal he didn't know anything about her.

Edward: You look worried. I'd be worried, too, I was you. But you've got to stay positive, kiddo. You know, there's always that off chance that they'll believe your story. I know I sure did.
Kate : I don't care what you believe.

S2E9
Kate: Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
Edward:I do have you all figured out.
Kate: You don't know anything about me.



Holy crap Sam you've done it again. Do you have any thoughts on why Kate told Sayid/Jack? that she was awake for the whole crash?




Zatherran
does the color orange have any memory inhancement qualities.. like some smells, that color brings out either emotion or memory!
could that be the reason the color of the black box - its about memory!!!
Locke smiling at her with orange peel.. an unsciousce attempt to produce memory??


You definately have to talk about this on the Sewing Kit thread. Lucidity has been trying to associate the colors with specific powers. AWESOME

WIF

I think Kate was awake for the whole crash, at least this time around, thanks to her handcuffs. The oxygen mask things is still a puzzle. When they go to the cockpit we see three bodies, none have oxygen masks on, or seat belts.

I think Kate has better memories of events and that why she wants to go certain places, just like Desmond, but Kate is keeping things to herself because if she said more she would be changing the course of how things went.

Just putting several things in here.

We've mentioned many times before that Kate says she remembers the whole plane crash, she seems to be the only one.

Um, interesting theory...i think. Havent read all of this thread, but I did read a good 20 pages or so. Not sold on your orange theory just yet though Mars' words about juice are peculiar.

Anyways, while i do remember Kate saying that she was conscious for the whole crash, I cant say I remember too many people stating that they didnt remember the crash, besides Jack who said he blacked out. Could you give some examples?

Also, could you clarify your examples of Charlies past changing (ie. the Driveshaft ring, swimming, dad)? I know he said he didn't swim before but then again, sometimes people lie...

Isnt it just possible the Juice comment....was because where shes going...she might not get juice again or least like this?

I mean shes going to Jail...shes not going to get menu options anymore.

WIF

I think Kate was awake for the whole crash, at least this time around, thanks to her handcuffs. The oxygen mask things is still a puzzle. When they go to the cockpit we see three bodies, none have oxygen masks on, or seat belts.

I think Kate has better memories of events and that why she wants to go certain places, just like Desmond, but Kate is keeping things to herself because if she said more she would be changing the course of how things went.


Sam G, I noticed this from the start.. and mentioned it, but seems i was the only one who noticed, but the bodies in the front of the plane, if it was first class were not dressed right, no seat belts, and no external injuries - marks and stuff.
I swear they focused on them because they were others scanning the plane, and got caught. they played dead, and when the everyone was in the cockpit, they scrammed, and caused the monster to appear...
thats my theory and I am sticking to it..

I noticed it the first time around also. Interesting that no one checked to see if anyone was alive.

Hum..... Ben sent Ethan and Goodwin off for the Fuselage and the Tailsection but no one to the cockpit? Did we see that break off in A Tale of Two Cities (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1163-57.html)?

ethan could have let them know they were headed for the cockpit.
and the camera's really make an serous long pan over the bodies, pointing to no seat belt.
could have been something they were going to use later, or changed their minds about. taking the show a different direction.

I watched the first half of season 1 yesterday, and no matter how many times I see the pilot and white rabbit, I am impressed...

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=520

No sign that they ever tried to put on the oxygen masks and they would have had it easier than the people in the Fuselage.

Never too late for something to show up again.

If the Pilot survived, and usually they don't, you'd think someone from the cockpit section would have survived. Very odd.

yes.. agreed..something fishy in demark if you ask me..
they dont even looked beat up or have blood on them..
and why would they pan over them.. to show no seat belt?
but only time will tell if we get some more great flash backs.

Anyways, while i do remember Kate saying that she was conscious for the whole crash, I cant say I remember too many people stating that they didnt remember the crash, besides Jack who said he blacked out. Could you give some examples?


Ahem....anyone?
100%
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=520

No sign that they ever tried to put on the oxygen masks and they would have had it easier than the people in the Fuselage.

Looks to me like he had put on his oxygen mask, put perhaps it came off in the crash. I mean, its around his neck, isnt it (as opposed to dangling from the overheard compartment)?

The only person that talked about the crash was Sayid. Shannon is remorseful because she sees the guy that wouldn't let them have their seats in First Class but no one else mentions what they were doing when the plane did crash.

Sayid was talking to Kate

S1E7 Sayid Not like this one. The tail section broke off when we were still in the air. Our section cart wheeled through the jungle and yet we escaped with nothing but a few scrapes. How do you explain that?

I have not, only thing i have heard mentioned is that its a mircle they survived.
sayid and michael made serious notes on that in the first 3 shows.
but seems that only kate and jack actually have discussed the crash - well that the powers at be have let us hear.

The only person that talked about the crash was Sayid. Shannon is remorseful because she sees the guy that wouldn't let them have their seats in First Class but no one else mentions what they were doing when the plane did crash.

Charlie talks about the crash to Claire, when he calls her a "newbie." He also mentions to Hurley that he was in the john doing H when the turbulence hit.

I guess I see what you guys are getting at, but I dont think that their not talking about it is evidence of them not remembering/blacking out.

In Rewind for Whatever the Case May Be - Liplocked and lightmedark both said that the people in the pool reminded them of Kate and the Marshal.

With the time loop possibility, we've mentioned that there seems to be a closer connection between Kate and the Marshal than what is on the surface. We've also commented on the Marshal's wedding ring, the picture of the older child on Tom's refrigerator. Could these be the outcome of different loops. Kate was married to the Marshal in one, had the baby in another.

We spent sometime in trying to figure out Kate's timeline. How so many things could fit into a certain space of time. If it's looping we can fit all the different possibilities.

seaquelost posted this in the Sewing Kit thread. It needs to be here too.

eta: The con association comes from scam artists beating each other with bags of oranges to pull insurance fraud. The oranges supposedly leave bad bruises but don't cause internal damage.
The bag of oranges scam played a major part in the classic con film "The Grifters" . Long before Lost premiered, fans of the con-story genre used "bag of oranges" as shorthand for "all is not as it appears".

seaquelost posted this in the Sewing Kit thread.


Actually, that was my post. It's an old theory of mine:
I associate oranges and orange in Lost with cons & deception.

lostmio,
seaquelost did say that it wasn't her info but couldn't remember who had said it.

Lostmio

It's a great observation.

Lostmio

It's a great observation.

I thought so too....I had saved it as a word doc in a file named "lost stuff". Unfortunately, I failed to copy the posters name.

Remember back in BTR there was a picture on old boyfriend Ton's refrigerator, with his wife and 2 young boys? One was the one that Tom referred to, In "Juice, the theory" we speculated the other child was Kate and Tom's.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=37933&fullsize=1

Could this be the "He" who is wating for Kate? That she went back to the loop she was able to be with her son in?

I think her "He" is Tom Brennan (If Shephard's Alive, So is Brennan (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=82375)).
But the idea of a son she had with Tom is pretty cool too.

I'm putting this here because I don't want to get into a big debate about it.

Long ago we mentioned the possibility of Kate already being a mom. The older little by in the photos on Tom's refrigerator.

This whole thing about Kate being pregnant, I don't think she can get pregnant again. In 2.16 (TWT) when Kate and Sun are wating for the results, Sun aks Kate if she's ever taken on before, Kate seems rather whisful to me, there's a look.

I think she mentions it to Sawyer in 3.23 as a kick in the pants. (You big oaf, you should be a little concerned by the possibility but "No I can't get pregnant". ) I don't think Kate wants that out there yet, for safty reasons (The Others don't want to kill potential mothers.) if they find out Kate can't conceive she becomes just another target. I also don't think Kate wants to go into the details of why she can't get pregnant either. All it would take is one examination by Juliet to know Kate has already had a baby.

The other thing I'm noting here. I said it when all of the talk about Charlie dying was going and still is going around, in defending Damon and Carlton's choice in telling a story, you need the depth of tragedy to be able experience the complete joy of the miracle. I believe Charlie will be back one way or another. I told Pacejunkie this long ago, I see she may be starting to believe.

We saw Kate taking a pregnancy test in "I Do", so if she isn't able to have children it would have to be something that happened after that, or she was unaware of the fact until after that.

Something to do with Mars maybe? (The Marshall, not the Planet)

I think Sawyer might be infertile - he was so convinced Clementine couldn't be his daughter.

This has to be THE definition of overanalyzation. You lika tha juice?

Sam - How do you think that Charlie will come back? Willl the Losties ever find his body, do you think? Or, did someone else that was in TLG find his almost-dead body in the ocean and bring him back into TLG and revive him.

Also, I heard that Dominic said something about the viewers finding out if he's coming back in about one year or so...did you hear that?

Somewhere I said quite a while ago:

We don't know who the Whisperers are, we've heard Boone's voice with them. I told Pacejunkie, when we first heard Charlie might die, that I thought he would be back. We have to let TPTB tell the story, if we don't have great sorrow, we won't be able to feel great joy.

Wow, I had to join just to say, this is the worst theory ever! Seriously, come up with something that isn't completely insane. Kate, oranges, time loops, etc??? Umm, the show would never be that complicated because it wouldn't make sense.

Hi Welcome to the Fuselage.

Not a very promising 1st post. I don't know where you've posted before but I think if you keep in this vane you might run into a few problems.

Maybe you'll fare better if you start your own theory.

Thanks for stopping by.

Wow,
4toedsock,
That really is pathetic. To join up only to make such a negative post.
And what's worse, you're totally wrong. The writers have actually confirmed the premise of the thread by having Kate drug Kevin with Orange Juice.

And that the show would never be "that complicated", well, keep watching and you might get the idea.

Wow,
4toedsock,
That really is pathetic. To join up only to make such a negative post.
And what's worse, you're totally wrong. The writers have actually confirmed the premise of the thread by having Kate drug Kevin with Orange Juice.

And that the show would never be "that complicated", well, keep watching and you might get the idea.
Not to mention Richard drugging Juliet with OJ + tranquilizers. I'm actually surprised by the prescience of Sam's original post.

Hello Gentlemen

Thank you for the support.

The whole pregnancy debate going on about Kate and now her non-reasons for killing Wayne.

The older boy on Tom's refrigerator, alway's thought that it was Kate's. What if it's not Tom's but Wayne's. However it's arranged Tom takes the baby because Kate mentally cannot, not then. Going from worse to Worse. Then finding out the creep who was your stepdad is now your father "and well...you know." "Why now, why'd you kill him now?" It's now incest and is that enough to push you over the edge and make you want to kill someone?

Of course I went to sleep and this started to make more and more sense. All the things that people said to Kate or things she said that didn't make sense all started to fall into place, when you add this one little piece of the puzzle.


WKD - (This starts to make sense - Take into consideration the possibility that no one knows Kate had a child except Tom. Diane doesn't know, Wayne doesn't know, Sam Austen doesn't know.)

TR
S1E2 Edward: You look worried. I'd be worried, too, I was you. But you've got to stay positive, kiddo. You know, there's always that off chance that they'll believe your story. I know I sure did.


At the beginning of WKD, there's a possibility that she hadn't been there for sometime.

Kate: Can you hear me? Sawyer? Wayne? I'm probably crazy and this doesn't matter, but maybe you're in there somehow. But you asked me a question. You asked me why... why I did it. It wasn't because you drove my father away, or the way you looked at me, or because you beat her. It's because I hated that you were a part of me... that I would never be good. That I would never have anything good. And every time that I look at Sawyer... every time I feel something for him... I see you, Wayne. And it makes me sick.


Edward: White trash mom divorces dad, starts up with some guy who's a drinker. Maybe he knocks her around a little bit and so she marries him, because, you know, that's what happens. And then this drunk, this Wayne, he moves into your house, and you get to lay there every night and listen to him doing your mom right there in daddy's old bedroom. And even that wouldn't be so bad if he didn't beat her up all the time. But she loves him. She defends him. If that don't make a person want to kill somebody I don't know what does. But the question is now, why now? Why after all these years did you just decide to blow poor Wayne up? He come knocking on your door late at night?
Kate: He never touched me.
(The Marshal also said "S1E3 Edward Listen to me, no matter what she does. No matter how she makes you feel, don't you trust a word that she says. She will do anything to get away.")

Left Behind - the sin is compounded
Kate: She's a Saint. I memorized them all in Sunday School so I figure they're probably still...rattling around my brain.

It's why Kate says the things she says to Claire about the baby. The things she says to Sun. (She has been there.)

We have spoiler info on Kate:

There are pictures of Kate (http://bp2.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Rwcwtp8rEkI/AAAAAAAAJlg/ZvU_2uS0f9M/s1600-h/DSC03187.JPG), she looks to be be dressed as a lawyer but who knows for sure? It's a FF and that would certainly be a twist. When the Losties first got to the Island, Sawyer had the Marshal's badge and gave it to Kate and called her sheriff. (Kate looks very Sydney Bristow from Alias)

S1E5 Sawyer: Water has no value, Freckles. It's gonna rain sooner or later. And hell, I'm an optimist. Hey, you forgot something. Seeing as you're the new sheriff in town. Might as well make it official.Now that would be an interesting turn.

Well, as we discussed on The Sewing Kit, Kate's new Blue look in the Finale was a total opposite to her previous Orange flashbacks. And what could be more opposite than what you've suggested there, Sam.

And I agree with what you're saying, the photos do make her look that way.
Giving up and Spoiler-tagging . . .

I think the fact that she had a case is a big clue - defendants don't carry files to court.


But what could be the explanation? I mean, what steps could lead to that happening?

SamG, I am spoiler free. to include looking at photes, but your point is good.. it strike a cord with me.. that there is more to kate than meets the eye. my juice theory is she is a good guy - a planned set of events. after watching wkd again and listening to it,
the look of fear on her face that "someone" was listening or watching.. the scene with sawyer before he wakes up... she looks around the room.

my biggest guess for the producers is they must be having a blast, knowing we are all digging deeper in to the show now.. watching and rewatching the epis..
come the new season, we will be slamming new shows down like crazy, feel our selves get dizzy at times, and as soon as the buzz wears off, it will be a new show to drink. 16 epis that will feel like a full week at spring break!

If Kate hadn't told to Sawyer/Wayne that "you asked why I did it?" I would still think she was set up or that someone else really killed Wayne.

If Kate hadn't told to Sawyer/Wayne that "you asked why I did it?" I would still think she was set up or that someone else really killed Wayne.

Kate to Cassidy, in Left Behind:
He used to get drunk, and beat up my mom. So, I blew up his house. I made it look like an accident. A gas leak. Took out an insurance policy on the house, for her. Set her up for life. And then she gave me up. Chose him over me. So, the reason I need to talk to her is someone I love - someone who's supposed to care about me - betrayed me, and I want to know why.

What if the sceen with Wayne and the house blowing up were at different times?

Unfortunately we have the Marshal:

S2E9 Edward: Nice, corn fed farm girl like yourself... no history of violence, straight A's, no record, couple of speeding tickets... just got to wonder, why'd you kill him now? Oh, right, yeah, don't tell me. You wouldn't want to incriminate yourself, not after you were so smart planning it. That jury back in Iowa sure ain't going to get hung up on pre-meditation. And a gas leak, come on, it's... it's amateur hour from top to bottom.

S2E9 Edward: I do have you all figured out.

S2E9 Edward: White trash mom divorces dad, starts up with some guy who's a drinker. Maybe he knocks her around a little bit and so she marries him, because, you know, that's what happens. And then this drunk, this Wayne, he moves into your house, and you get to lay there every night and listen to him doing your mom right there in daddy's old bedroom. And even that wouldn't be so bad if he didn't beat her up all the time. But she loves him. She defends him. If that don't make a person want to kill somebody I don't know what does. But the question is now, why now? Why after all these years did you just decide to blow poor Wayne up? He come knocking on your door late at night?

Unfortunately we have the Marshal:

S2E9 Edward: Nice, corn fed farm girl like yourself... no history of violence, straight A's, no record, couple of speeding tickets... just got to wonder, why'd you kill him now? Oh, right, yeah, don't tell me. You wouldn't want to incriminate yourself, not after you were so smart planning it. That jury back in Iowa sure ain't going to get hung up on pre-meditation. And a gas leak, come on, it's... it's amateur hour from top to bottom.

S2E9 Edward: I do have you all figured out.

S2E9 Edward: White trash mom divorces dad, starts up with some guy who's a drinker. Maybe he knocks her around a little bit and so she marries him, because, you know, that's what happens. And then this drunk, this Wayne, he moves into your house, and you get to lay there every night and listen to him doing your mom right there in daddy's old bedroom. And even that wouldn't be so bad if he didn't beat her up all the time. But she loves him. She defends him. If that don't make a person want to kill somebody I don't know what does. But the question is now, why now? Why after all these years did you just decide to blow poor Wayne up? He come knocking on your door late at night?
I see all of that as getting their story straight. Rehearsing. That's why on the plane he says, "Maybe they'll believe your story. I know I do." They're sharing a little joke.

HELLO!!

WOW!

I read all the theory on Kate from the beginning of this subject… really have thought everything to it…

It scares to think to me about the possibility that something of this is real. I prefer to continue thinking about Kate like a fugitive one to kill its father nothing else and.

But really all this would contribute to Kate a different touch!

Unfortunately we have the Marshal:

S2E9 Edward: Nice, corn fed farm girl like yourself... no history of violence, straight A's, no record, couple of speeding tickets... just got to wonder, why'd you kill him now? Oh, right, yeah, don't tell me. You wouldn't want to incriminate yourself, not after you were so smart planning it. That jury back in Iowa sure ain't going to get hung up on pre-meditation. And a gas leak, come on, it's... it's amateur hour from top to bottom.

S2E9 Edward: I do have you all figured out.

S2E9 Edward: White trash mom divorces dad, starts up with some guy who's a drinker. Maybe he knocks her around a little bit and so she marries him, because, you know, that's what happens. And then this drunk, this Wayne, he moves into your house, and you get to lay there every night and listen to him doing your mom right there in daddy's old bedroom. And even that wouldn't be so bad if he didn't beat her up all the time. But she loves him. She defends him. If that don't make a person want to kill somebody I don't know what does. But the question is now, why now? Why after all these years did you just decide to blow poor Wayne up? He come knocking on your door late at night? Agree, but what has proved his case. Did Wayne's body ever show up? Did it diapppear it a puff of smoke? (ala Artz)
Why is always refered to by profession rather than name Edward or Mars?
We have no real proof of what he is. The picture of him on the phone with Kate when she was in Fla was her projection not necessarly fact.

What if the sceen with Wayne and the house blowing up were at different times?

I'd never thought of that. The wording is odd, hmm? Either Kate wasn't entirely honest with Cassidy, or there's a twist coming...

The Marshal has never sat well with me from the first episode. I think in he beginning of this thread I mention how unprofessional he acted and I am not convinced he is what he claims to be. There are things like when Kate is caught in the Bus station, the Marshal appears to have backup, he has it again when he is trying to catch Kate at Diane's with Cassidy. We mentioned bounty hunters before and by the time we see the Marshal in Australia, he's acting alone? It wouldn't take much to sway me. I'm just looking at the information that we've been shown. (It's the little pieces that have been left out that are the killer.)

But there is a connection with Kate beyond all of this. When he knew he was going to die and he was in great pain, he asked Kate to kill him and she couldn't.

So, you're saying that he was possibly a bounty hunter-type posing as an official U.S. Marshall? This would mean that he was kind of like a private contractor versus a federal official...

So, you're saying that he was possibly a bounty hunter-type posing as an official U.S. Marshall? This would mean that he was kind of like a private contractor versus a federal official...Yes, byt the time he got to Australia the Marshal was acting obsessed. He may have been very frustrated by several things, I think he was attracted to Kate at one point and probably was still fighting it.

Mars is certainly acting unprofessionally. His treatment of the case seems to have become personal and possibly an obsession. But legitimate officials in all branches of government have been known to act unprofessionally. While it's possible that he's not what he claims to be, unprofessional behavior is still plausible for a legitimate official. It's just not the kind of behavior that's conducive to a stable career.

The Marshal has never sat well with me from the first episode. I think in he beginning of this thread I mention how unprofessional he acted and I am not convinced he is what he claims to be. There are things like when Kate is caught in the Bus station, the Marshal appears to have backup, he has it again when he is trying to catch Kate at Diane's with Cassidy. We mentioned bounty hunters before and by the time we see the Marshal in Australia, he's acting alone? It wouldn't take much to sway me. I'm just looking at the information that we've been shown. (It's the little pieces that have been left out that are the killer.)

But there is a connection with Kate beyond all of this. When he knew he was going to die and he was in great pain, he asked Kate to kill him and she couldn't. Couldn't (didn't have murder in her heart) or wouldn't to end his suffering or it was beyond her pay grade or orders? Was it to make us think she isn't a killer? The next phase was why couldn't or wouldn't Sawyer get it done. Than the question did Jack actually do it? Why off in a secret spot for the 'body'? Was the body Edwards or an'others' costumed in his garb?

Question did anyone else besides turbine guy die from effects of the 'crash'?

Question did anyone else besides turbine guy die from effects of the 'crash'?

Didn't they set fire to a portion of the fuselage because of the bodies buckled up inside it?

In the tailsection people died but besides Joanna going missing a couple of days in, and not from the crash, I don't remember anyone besides the Marshal dying. There were the bodies in the cockpit and the pilot who died of unnatural causes.

I have to say that it is still totally unnatural for that many people to have just scratches from the crash of flight 815. I saw what looked like the beginning of a plane crash with the plane breaking up in what looked like mid-air, but we never saw the actual crash. Also still strange in my mind is that Kate and Jack, the two "main main" characters, were so far away from everyone else. It just doesn't add up and never has...

Also, why were all the dead bodies only in the plane after the plane crash? What made the people that landed outside of the plane, on the beach or in the jungle, land there as opposed to the people who never even fell or got thrown out of their seats?

None of the passengers n the Cockpit section had on seatbelts but they were still sitting in their seats???

None of the passengers n the Cockpit section had on seatbelts but they were still sitting in their seats???That's a little bizarre, to say the least. If the impact of the crash was strong enough (and I'd think it would be) to blow their seatbelts off of them, how in the heck were they still in their seats?

I'm going to go look at some of the pictures of dead people in the plane...
100%
I can't find any clear pictures of the inside of the plane after the crash (like a view of the dead bodies in the middle of the plane, like when Jack, Kate and Charlie went back to the plane. Josh and Jorge look so much younger than now in 2004...

Looking at the Dead (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=8990&highlight=looking+at+the+dead)

I have them here.

There aren't any pictures inside the Fuselage. We only have the one picture with the arm hanging down from the pilot episode.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-3-132.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-3-135.html

Somewhere - on the S1 dvd commentary? - tptb discussed the scene where Jack's looking at the bodies and the arm hanging down. They said they wanted to convey the horror of what he was seeing but of course couldn't directly do so on prime-time tv.

There were scripted references to the dead: the b-o-d-y-s (Hurley's spelling) and someone said the fuselage interior was "grim". Sayid initially expressed some disagreement about burning the bodies; I think the boars were what convinced everyone.

So - yeah, there were plenty of allusions to the dead inside the beach wreckage..

Yes, I remember that commentary also. The fact that they didn't want to show a lot of blood so that when we did see it there would be an impact.

I still think that it's funny that we don't have any pictures of inside the Fuselage of the dead bodies. Also, as we've said before, why did we see people in the seats without their seatbelts? How could they have stayed in their seats if their seatbelts were blown off of them?

The only time they went in the Fuselage was to get drugs (Jack and Sawyer) dark and with flashlights and the quick look inside when the boars were rooting around. Then they decided that they needed to burn the Fuselage.

Did anybody ever think the metal in Mars, which was in a critical area was done to him after the 'crash'?

Yes, I believe it has been suggested.

Reminds me so much of Sarah, with the steering column sticking out of her.

Yes it's true that the people who survived the "Crash" are those who (as far as we can tell) landed, or awoke, OUTSIDE of the plane. did the impact sent them out of the plane onto the beach? or were they never in crashed plane to begin with? no survivers were found in the fuselage, isn't that odd? noone within the plane lives, only the people forcefully tossed out of it?

Did anybody ever think the metal in Mars, which was in a critical area was done to him after the 'crash'?I never thought of that, coupons, but that just shows you what I know! What did he know that someone wanted to stop from getting out? Could Kate have done it to him, if he was slightly injured a bit beforehand? That would have been gruesome, though...

The only time they went in the Fuselage was to get drugs (Jack and Sawyer) dark and with flashlights and the quick look inside when the boars were rooting around. Then they decided that they needed to burn the Fuselage.I might be confusing the word Fuselage with what I really meant. I meant the part of the plane where most of the people sit, like in the regular class section, like where Jack and Rose and Locke were sitting. Jack, Kate and Charlie had to walk through the part of the plane that I'm talking about and walked by dead people that were still in their seats, but they didn't have their seatbelts on anymore - which I thought was interesting...

That also reminds me of someone's theory about that there might have been more than one flight 815. The reason that the poster thought this was because in the fb for the plane scenes, not everyone seemed to be shown...and it would seem like we would have caught a glimpse of everyone somehow...

Yes it's true that the people who survived the "Crash" are those who (as far as we can tell) landed, or awoke, OUTSIDE of the plane. did the impact sent them out of the plane onto the beach? or were they never in crashed plane to begin with? no survivers were found in the fuselage, isn't that odd? noone within the plane lives, only the people forcefully tossed out of it?Yes, how come everyone that we saw in the plane after the crash was dead and everyone that ended up outside of the plane was still alive and only had scratches?

I might be confusing the word Fuselage with what I really meant. I meant the part of the plane where most of the people sit, like in the regular class section, like where Jack and Rose and Locke were sitting. Jack, Kate and Charlie had to walk through the part of the plane that I'm talking about and walked by dead people that were still in their seats, but they didn't have their seatbelts on anymore - which I thought was interesting...



Cockpit/Front of the plane - Charlie, Kate and Jack went to where the Pilot was, that is where they walked through the plane and we saw dead people without their seatbelts on. We never saw any dead people from the center section/Fuselage except for the hand hanging down.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=520
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=462

Fuselage - Center section of the plane that was burned on the beach
There's the dead guy that Shannon stares at and the guy Kate takes the shoes from.

Tail Section - Anna, Eko and all.
Eko drags the bodies from the ocean.

There's the dead guy that Shannon stares at and the guy Kate takes the shoes from.

Cockpit/Front of the plane - Charlie, Kate and Jack went to where the Pilot was, that is where they walked through the plane and we saw dead people without their seatbelts on. We never saw any dead people from the center section/Fuselage except for the hand hanging down.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=520
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=462

I guess that I'm talking about the dead people in the front of the plane then. Perhaps some of it was the First Class section because J, K and C had to climb and crawl through it to get to the cockpit. I don't see any logic in the dead people still being in their seats without any seatbelts on. You'd think that they'd at least be on the floor of the plane somewhere...

All this discussion of the dead and no mention of the couple still in their seats at the bottom of the swimming hole? (sitting atop the Marshall's briefcase)

Yes, how come everyone that we saw in the plane after the crash was dead and everyone that ended up outside of the plane was still alive and only had scratches?

Let's look at all the possibilities:

If you were in the plane and dead, you would have remained there -- as has been shown.

If you were in the plane and alive, you'd have left and joined the other survivors on the beach. This may have happened to some survivors; we don't know the story of each and every one. The exception would be if you were in the plane and too injured to move, as was the case with the Pilot. So we see at least one case of this; there may be cases where other people were found alive and removed; there was nowhere nearly enough footage to show what every walking survivor did at every moment.

If you were out of the plane and alive, (like Jack was) you'd have found the other survivors at the beach. As has been shown.

If you were out of the plane and dead, you were likely dropped somewhere in the jungle, and would not be visible. There are probably a lot of these out there. The only other situation would be of a corpse that just happened to land on the beach. As the story revolves around action, and corpses are not often given to much action (maybe being saved for the Zombie Season :redface:) the cameras may not have been directed at them.

As for people outside having only scratches, I seem to remember at least one immobile person being dragged away from the plane (right before the wing fell?) and then there's the marshall, too. To show large numbers of other injured would likely bog down the action, but they could have been there.

In any case, while this idea is still worth following up, we may at least want to consider the possibility that everything's normal, for once on this show...

All this discussion of the dead and no mention of the couple still in their seats at the bottom of the swimming hole? (sitting atop the Marshall's briefcase)You know, as creepy as that scene was, it strikes me as more plausible than the dead people in their seats, but not wearing any seatbelts...

wesb...you bring up a lot of great, realistic points. My biggest question out of all of these that I've brought up is why have a dead person in a seat still, but no seatbelt - as it would seem that if the crash blew the seatbelt off of the person, the person would have also been blown out of the seat or at least on the floor...

By the way, I don't bring up this idea to critize TPTB. I think that it might be a clue that the planecrash is not totally what we think that it is...

As for people outside having only scratches, I seem to remember at least one immobile person being dragged away from the plane (right before the wing fell?) and then there's the marshall, too. To show large numbers of other injured would likely bog down the action, but they could have been there.
That's the guy who was trapped under the piece of the wreckage.

This is a plane that carried around 350 people, never nearly enough bodies.

You know, as creepy as that scene was, it strikes me as more plausible than the dead people in their seats, but not wearing any seatbelts...

wesb...you bring up a lot of great, realistic points. My biggest question out of all of these that I've brought up is why have a dead person in a seat still, but no seatbelt - as it would seem that if the crash blew the seatbelt off of the person, the person would have also been blown out of the seat or at least on the floor...

By the way, I don't bring up this idea to critize TPTB. I think that it might be a clue that the planecrash is not totally what we think that it is...

And it's very much worth exploring. I'm just pointing out alternatives. I hope my little analysis doesn't come across as being critical; that was never my intention. Please keep looking by all means...

As far as the bodies being in their seats without seatbelts, let's again look at all the possibilities. We'll presume that there were many passengers who were seated but not belted in. Some were shaken clear of their seats, and some were not. Those who were shaken clear will have fallen out, and would be scattered in the jungle, or in the water. There are likely a great many of these; more than they've needed to show, though they have shown some. Those who were not shaken clear of their seats remained there, and were shown still in their places. We saw these as the survivors entered the remains of the wreckage. I'd expect that we'd see some of both, and I think we have. We might make an argument out of the _proportion_ of those who remained in their seats, and there, I would have to withdraw from the discussion, as I can give examples of all relevant possibilities, but would leave the gathering of statistics to someone more patient than myself...

Well, another reason to maybe think the flight or the crash never occurred: Rose is the ONLY person to have seen John Locke in his wheelchair? They originally explained this by having him be the first one on the plane. I can buy that, no one saw him get on. But we see Rose see him in her flashback, meaning at least SOME of the passengers were already waiting for the flight in the loading area. Of course, John was a stranger, and you don't remember every stranger you see , but if you saw Mr. Clean in a wheelchair, and then the next day you saw him hunting boar, you wouldn't remember that?

In all 3 POV's of the pre crash, Kate's, Jack's and Charlie's (I think that's all) we have the seat belt announcement 3 times, 3 different ways, (we've discussed this on another thread recently.) Plenty of time to get your seat belt on. When the plane broke apart from the tail seaction we saw a few people fly out the back, we never saw the front of the plane break off.

Oh, the other strange thing noe of the bodies in the front section had their oxygen masks on.

There is one other shot in the front section, there is no screen caps for it, of another body it's a woman (http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b389/SamG1/?action=view&current=lost1x01-crystalkirk-1155.jpg).

And it's very much worth exploring. I'm just pointing out alternatives. I hope my little analysis doesn't come across as being critical; that was never my intention. Please keep looking by all means...

As far as the bodies being in their seats without seatbelts, let's again look at all the possibilities. We'll presume that there were many passengers who were seated but not belted in. Some were shaken clear of their seats, and some were not. Those who were shaken clear will have fallen out, and would be scattered in the jungle, or in the water. There are likely a great many of these; more than they've needed to show, though they have shown some. Those who were not shaken clear of their seats remained there, and were shown still in their places. We saw these as the survivors entered the remains of the wreckage. I'd expect that we'd see some of both, and I think we have. We might make an argument out of the _proportion_ of those who remained in their seats, and there, I would have to withdraw from the discussion, as I can give examples of all relevant possibilities, but would leave the gathering of statistics to someone more patient than myself...No worries, wesb. I definitely didn't think that you were trying to be critical (in a negative or mean way) and I agree that it's definitely worth looking into all sides of an idea or theory. I will stop beating a dead horse
:horse: after saying for one last time today that I just think that it's strange that there were people in their seats still, but they weren't wearing seatbelts. How could the seatbelts get blown off of the people, but the people didn't get blown out of their seats? Come to think of it, how could anyone have been able to stay in their seats during the plane crash? I guess that I don't know enough about planecrashes and the impact that they have on the planes' passengers to really comment with authority. The topic is really thought-provoking, IMHO, though...

Well, another reason to maybe think the flight or the crash never occurred: Rose is the ONLY person to have seen John Locke in his wheelchair? They originally explained this by having him be the first one on the plane. I can buy that, no one saw him get on. But we see Rose see him in her flashback, meaning at least SOME of the passengers were already waiting for the flight in the loading area. Of course, John was a stranger, and you don't remember every stranger you see , but if you saw Mr. Clean in a wheelchair, and then the next day you saw him hunting boar, you wouldn't remember that?I have wondered about this situation, too, mikebinos. Locke is a pretty striking figure with that bald dome for a head, those piercing bluish-green eyes (more green, I think) and wheeling around in the wheelchair. He definitely would have caught my attention and then if I saw him hunting a boar on his own two feet after the crash...
100%
Oh, no! I just noticed that that horse smilie that I put into my post is going to the bathroom...sorry about that...
100%
In all 3 POV's of the pre crash, Kate's, Jack's and Charlie's (I think that's all) we have the seat belt announcement 3 times, 3 different ways, (we've discussed this on another thread recently.) Plenty of time to get your seat belt on. When the plane broke apart from the tail seaction we saw a few people fly out the back, we never saw the front of the plane break off.

Oh, the other strange thing noe of the bodies in the front section had their oxygen masks on.

There is one other shot in the front section, there is no screen caps for it, of another body it's a woman.I remember that discussion, Sam, and thought that it was really cool. Wasn't it's implication that there could have been 2 or 3 flight 815s were everything was somewhat duplicated in order to make the Losties on the different flights think that they were on the same flight later on when they "crashed" on the Island? I know that it could have been a production error or two, but I don't think that TPTB would be that careless, especially for such a pivotal scene.

Also...I think during that discussion that someone looked back at the fbs of each of those characters and documented how many different Losties appeared in each "version" of the beginning of the planecrash and wrote down if any of the same characters appeared in all three POVs...now THAT is very interesting to me...

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and am all for the (maybe) wild, tangential speculation about Kate, the Marshall or the plane. I don't think anyone has mentioned that orange juice is a great source of folic acid, a nutrient considered necessary during pregnancy and even the period leading up to conception. I seem to remember it being one of the most frequently recommended foods when I was pregnant and people were always forcing it on me.

If the Marshall was actually trying to get Kate to drink the juice, then this might support the theory that the plane's destination was the island all along, and the Marshall was tasked with bringing Kate to the island for a specific purpose - the pregnancy experiments.

He kind of smiled in reaction to that one bad patch of turbulence that occurred moments before the plane started breaking apart. Very odd, as if he was expecting the ride to get rough and was in on a secret.

His excessive number of guns has been mentioned before, but maybe he knew they would come in handy on the island.

In the Tabula Rasa script, when the Marshall first regains lucid consciousness (as opposed to when he was deliriously rambling) he says to Jack "we crashed." Strange that he didn't also ask "where the heck are we?" as if he already knew. So maybe the crash was unexpected but the destination wasn't.

And when Kate tells him "I did escape," he replies "you don't look free," which is a strange way of describing her situation.

If this is all true, why was Kate in particular wanted by the Others? I think, as others have speculated, that Wayne/Diane are not really her parents and her real parents were either Dharma, Others or someone else associated with the island. Sam Austen knew this and was keeping it a secret from Kate so he didn't contradict her when she confronted him about Wayne.

I love the spec that Kate was on a mission in Australia. She told Sun that she was heading to Bali, which is interesting because Naomi said that the official story of flight 815 was that it crashed off of Bali. Is this where the island is? Maybe Kate learned that her real parents were on the island, or suspected that they were somewhere around Bali.

Leading up to my pet theory, that Ben is Kate's father. I know he's a little young to be her father, but technically not too young. There are so many similarities between them. And they still have some 'splaining to do about Ben's weird beach-side breakfast with Kate in season 3.

I also love the spec that Kate's little plane has more significance than we know of thus far. The Marshall's story about the plane told to the aviation official in Exodus may have been more than a simple summation of Kate's past - full of double meanings and half-truths. It's strange that if he did intend to use the plane to bait Kate in New Mexico, that he wasn't there waiting for her when she robbed the bank.

I think there's so much more to the Marshall's involvement. It seems TPTB have every intention to tell us eventually. In season 3 they went to the trouble of having him briefly appear when Cassidy knocked on Diane's door (along with Cassidy's line "if he ever gets his hands on you it's either you or him") when some non-descript agents could have accomplished the same task. With only 3 seasons left, and assuming that Kate gets only 3 more centric episodes, I'm really hoping they still follow through with the explanations.

:orange: I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Jack's OJ yet. I think the time it was on screen and the focus it was given make it the most blatant Juice moment to date.

:orange: I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Jack's OJ yet. I think the time it was on screen and the focus it was given make it the most blatant Juice moment to date.
I LOL when I saw him pouring it while watching aerial footage of a car chase on TV. No Bronco, but my friend John pointed out the vehicle was named for another horse.

My temptation would've been to use a Barracuda to glom onto the Nash Bridges running gag with Cheech, but I think they made the wiser choice, more viewers being familiar with OJ than with "Cheech y Don". See how far ahead they plan the gags?

Robert

:orange: I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Jack's OJ yet. I think the time it was on screen and the focus it was given make it the most blatant Juice moment to date.

I immediately thought about this thread when I saw the OJ..and thought it was going to pan up to reveal Edward Mars.