For those of you who thought the baseball from Kate and Tom's timecapsule had Locke's signature on it, here is another baseball clue.* Its an excerpt from the transcript that deals with the boar hunt Locke went on with Michael and Kate.

Shot of Locke, listening to boar noises.]

Locke

* * * * * Shhh.

[Locke sees tusk marks on a tree. Gives hand signals to direct the others.]

Michael

* * * * * Hey, quit giving us the steal signal.

That's the first I heard of Locke's signature being on the baseball.* Are these people's lives intertwined all the way back to birth?* *:laugh:* *That's what, three baseball references now?* The Red Sox, the time capsule, the steal signal... that's all I can think of offhand.* Is the baseball theory in spoilers?* (I guess I can read that section now, unless they've already started on the next season.)

(It would be an interesting experiment to see how many of us on this board have crossed paths in real life, wouldn't it?* Find out whether any of us were ever in the same airport at the same time, or something?)

There was a thread about the time capsule, but I think maybe it was in BTR. I can't remember. Anyway, there was a picture of the timecapsule contents. One of the items was a baseball that looked like it might have John Locke's signature on it. Most of the names looked like the names of children. Some of us wondered if Locke might have been Kate's baseball coach at some point. Maybe she lived in California sometime? I thought I saw the name Reyes too, but someone else saw it differently. There was also a red baseball cap that said Westhills something or other, a Minnie Mouse, and the airplane.

I was going to put this in another thread, but it didn't seem appropriate.*

Maybe the title of Born to Run, besides being Kate's m.o., is a referrence to baseball?

Maybe it is.* Maybe there are more references than I've noticed overall... run, steal, hit... all these things apply to things happening on the island.* There has been a whole lot of hitting, running and stealing going on.* And drugging, too.* Which is not officially connected with baseball, but...* close enough.

post to follow

There was a thread about the time capsule, but I think maybe it was in BTR.* I can't remember.* Anyway, there was a picture of the timecapsule contents.* One of the items was a baseball that looked like it might have John Locke's signature on it.* Most of the names looked like the names of children.* Some of us wondered if Locke might have been Kate's baseball coach at some point.* Maybe she lived in California sometime?*


* * She did mention standing on the beach and sinking in the sand with her Mother , letting the tide
pull the sand from under their* feet.

She did mention standing on the beach and sinking in the sand with her Mother , letting the tide
pull the sand from under their feet.

Yes, A2M. It sounds like they spent at least some time at the beach.

There's also that cap. Westhills...I know there's a Westhills community in CA. Coincidentally, I was driving through Knoxville last week and noticed there is a Westhills there too.

There's also that cap. Westhills...I know there's a Westhills community in CA. Coincidentally, I was driving through Knoxville last week and noticed there is a Westhills there too.


Knoxville does relate back to Sawyer's letter. Is there a Westhills in Tustin, California?

*must research Westhills*

There's a Westhills of California, Inc. near Tustin. It's in Huntington Beach, about 10m West of Tustin, from the Google map.

Interesting JohnnyReb. I wonder what their business is.

According to mapquest, Tustin and the Westhills community are about an hour apart.

Another thing that has puzzled me for a long time, is that shocked look on Kate's face when Locke called her Helen. At first, I thought maybe she knew someone named Helen, but maybe she recognized Locke as her old coach. I wonder why she wouldn't have identified herself if that was the case though.

I have a Helen theory .

I thought it was Kate on the phone with Locke when it first aired. Of course, everyone thought
Helen was a phone sex operator, but what if she were a phone psychic .Remember the
conversation between Claire and Kate about astrology . I thought the reason why Kate was so
disregarding of the topic was because she knew it was just a lot of baloney.

Kewl theory addicted.

shoot, I've got a question for you and everyone. Why do we assume Ethan's Ontario is Ontario, Canada? Just because of ROM and the museum reference? The reason I ask is that Ontario, California and Tustin are 38 minutes away from each other. Westhill and Ontario are 1 hour 7 minutes away from each other.

The reason I thought it was Canada was because Ethan went along with Hurley and didn't
try to correct him.

True, but I think that was probably some sort of subversion on Ethan's (and the writers') part. Naaaaah....They wouldn't do that to us. Would they? :o

Oh, and Westhills of Calif, Inc. is an Import and Export business.

Hey, that is a cool theory A2M.

Hmmm....going back to read transcripts.

JohnnyReb, you ask a really good question. * Maybe it was because Kate mentioned being Canadian, which I think was a big lie. *Also, because Hurley owned a sneaker factory in Canada, but that really doesn't have anything to do with Ethan at this point, does it?

OT- Why is it everytime I think about that sneaker factory, I'm reminded of Locke's statement that he's sneakier than he gives himself credit for?

I'm also playing around with the idea that the baseball team might have been a program for foster children. *Locke, having grown up in foster care, would be an ideal volunteer for such an organization. *We have heard Locke refer to his foster family members as his brother, sister, mother... *Maybe Diane was Kate's foster mother? *It would explain why half the time she referred to her as Diane. *

Having said that, maybe Kate and Tom grew up in the same foster home. If Brennan with the key was Tom's father, and he didn't make it home, it could explain why Kate and Tom were so close. It could explain why she wanted to run away. She might have run away from various foster homes because she believed her father was alive somewhere.

There seems to be some discrepency between Kate's and Tom's ages. It seems strange to some people that Tom would have a friend as young as Kate, if Shannon's estimation was correct. If they were in the same foster family, though, they would have been kind of forced to spend time together.

I never thought of Kate and Tom as foster kids together and I did wonder why she referred
to her Mother as Diane, when she was talking to Tom. I was thinking that Diane was her
stepmother, but had been her stepmother from when Kate was young.

thinking about the Canada thing* --- What I find interesting is that we have things that are "All American" type of objects etc..* Now, I am sure Canadians have and like/d these things as well...after all there's the Toronto Blue Jays!*

Baseball - nationwide
Minnie Mouse - has two "homes" Disneyland in Anaheim, CA* (which is only 15 minutes from Tustin) and Disney World in Orlando, FL
New Kids on the Block* - a "Boston" based band

what else?

Maybe it is.* Maybe there are more references than I've noticed overall... run, steal, hit... all these things apply to things happening on the island.* There has been a whole lot of hitting, running and stealing going on.* And drugging, too.* Which is not officially connected with baseball, but...* close enough.


Baseball players take steroids. What do steroids do to you? Or could it be a clue to DNA tampering, or experiments on children in foster homes, through the administration of "orange juice"?

wow waltisfuture could be :)

Even though Sawyer's grandparent's were mentioned and an uncle . He could have ended
up in a foster home after the death of his parents.

Yes, but the timecapsule was burried in Iowa. From the conversation on the tape it sounds like they've been growing up there. I would think the Westhills baseball cap was from someplace in Iowa. It's already hard to place Kate in Washington State. Unless we need to believe what the Marshal said. "Don't believe a word she says."

Someone from a foster home might make up stories about their parents

can't find a Westhills, Iowa. But, there is a Westhills, in Calgary Alberta Canada.

can't find a Westhills, Iowa. But, there is a Westhills, in Calgary Alberta Canada

Bess, I did a google search on that a long time ago. The only Westhills anything I could find in relation to Iowa was a realtor. Of course, it could just be a fictional place, but none of the other places in the show have been fictional.


Young Tom

Okay, this is Kate Austin and Tom Brennon and this is our dedication for our time capsule, here on August 15th, 1989. Hey, give me that back.

Young Kate

Why are you putting this stupid plane in there?

Young Tom

Because it's cool, Katie. I got it when I flew to Dallas by myself.

Young Kate

That is cool, just like this time capsule.

Young Tom

It'll be totally cool when we dig it up in like 20 years.

Young Kate

How do you know we'll be together?

Young Tom

Because we'll be married and you'll be a mom and we'll have 9 kids.

Young Kate

I don't think so. As soon as I get my license we should just get in a car and drive. You know, run away.

Young Tom

You always want to run away, Katie.

Young Kate

Yeah, and you know why.



The only thing in the conversation that sounds like long-term knowledge of one another is Tom's comment, "you always want to run away, Katie." That could just as easily mean that she has runaway from foster care several times. If we apply the CIA's logic to this situation, there are only two reasons she would want to run away all the time. Either she's running from something, which is unlikely given her age unless it's an abusive parent/stepparent, or she's looking for something. Is she looking for her father?

The realator isn't even in Iowa - it's in Virginia. There's just a listing of other Iowa realtors on the same page. Click on the link - Shenandoah Valley pops up! lol

West Hills is also a retirement community - seems there's several of them across the counry.

Does anyone have a screencap of the baseball? I'd like to see these signatures!

Does anyone have a screencap of the baseball? I'd like to see these signatures!

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=450&pos=704

It does look like the signature on top is John Locke :)

could Tom have lived out in CA, and moved to Iowa? If the tie is to Locke - it would be fitting to be Tom Brennan who has the key! ;)If that's the case, perhaps then his mysterious vacation was to go back to CA to visit old friends/relatives?

Was the airplane in the time capsule from a trip to Dallas or somewhere in California ?

It was a trip to Dallas.

If the tie is to Locke - it would be fitting to be Tom Brennan who has the key! ;)

That would be cool too, but it would kind of take some of the fun out of the steal sign he gave Michael and Kate on the boar hunt. :laugh:

Was the airplane in the time capsule from a trip to Dallas or somewhere in California ?

From what I can recall, it's from the trip to Dallas

Was the airplane in the time capsule from a trip to Dallas or somewhere in California ?


A trip to Dallas he made by himself. For some reason that he went alone is important.

I've been studying that pic. Has there ever been a mention of anyone named Mandy on the show? One of the signatures reads Mandy Y____.

Or maybe Amanda? Mandy could be short for Amanda.

Westhills on red baseball cap, with a big W, and I see a W on Toms blue shirt, right elbow.



I totally see John Lo...which could be Locke. At the top I see Ch, which could be Charlie. I don't see Reyes, but I want to. I see Mandy and what looks like Ying below that. Could be Ying/Yang. Six... or Sir..Stru...

I've been studying that pic. Has there ever been a mention of anyone named Mandy on the show? One of the signatures reads Mandy Y____.

No mention I know of but wouldn't be surprised if she poped up as the person that sent the letter to Kate.

If you were a kid, and traveled by plane by yourself somewhere - it is a big deal!* Speculatiing ---- Whom did he visit? A parent or grandparent?

If you were a kid, and traveled by plane by yourself somewhere - it is a big deal!* Whom did he visit? A parent or grandparent?

Doesn't say who he went to visit. Kate knew who it was.

I used photoediting software and a negative enhancement to see it. It's on the left side of the ball. Looks like faded blue marker.

I used photoediting software and a negative enhancement to see it.* It's on the left side of the ball.* Looks like faded blue marker.


I'm not sure if your referring to seeing Reyes? I looked at the blue and saw a definate S. Maybe I should look at it upside down, for the word to end in Reyes?

Can you show us your pik? :-[

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/shootfire/timecapballneg.jpg

Here's my negative effect pic.

Edited: Reyes looks kind of pinkish in the pic.

Or could it be a clue to DNA tampering, or experiments on children in foster homes, through the administration of* "orange juice"?


:o :oThat is very interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or maybe that is how they sedated the children in order to run tests on them (by putting sedatives in the OJ).

Insert Quote
Quote from: Bess2728 on Yesterday at 04:08:13 PM
If you were a kid, and traveled by plane by yourself somewhere - it is a big deal! Whom did he visit? A parent or grandparent?

Doesn't say who he went to visit. Kate knew who it was.

Yes, I know it wasn't said. Just wondering - speculating.

A trip to Dallas he made by himself. For some reason that he went alone is important.


The guy in the pool hall called Sawyer, "Tex" it could have just been a nickname, but Sawyer
could have lived in Texas at one time.

The American Youth Baseball Hall of Fame, Cooperstown Dream Park, lists a team from Westhills, CA. The team is called California Gold. Interesting considering all the mining talk circulating.

Wow, that could definitely link Kate to California :)

We know she's accurate in throwing rocks. Ask Sawyer.

Yep, almost busted his damn knee. :lol2: :lol2:

shootfire...I thought that writing said "815" and posted that somewhere...a few of us thought so but couldn't make out what the letters before the (alleged) "815" are...

108 is the number of stitches in an official major league baseball. Goes along with the baseball theory.

WIF, 1+0+8 =9* *& 4 bases in a baseball diamond. ;)

shootfire...I thought that writing said "815" and posted that somewhere...a few of us thought so but couldn't make out what the letters before the (alleged) "815" are...

TabbyRasa, I've stared at that ball so much, I can't see anything but Reyes anymore.* *:lol2:

It looks to me like a capital R at the beginning.* The e's look like backward 3's.* I know the s is large, but that's the way my son writes.* Poor penmanship seems to run in the family.* ;)* * * * * * I guess it just looks familiar to me.

I though this was interesting:

Seeing the girls at the airport wearing the jerseys with the NUMBERS on them got me thinking about teams with those numbers and came up with this:

New York Yankees Retired numbers (this is the only team that had retired all the Lost NUMBERS):
4 - Lou Gehrig
8 - Yogi Berra
15 - Thurman Munson
16 - Whitey Ford
23 - Don Mattingly
42 - Jackie Robinson (played for the Brooklyn Dodgers, but Jackie Robinson's #42 has been retired by every major league club, to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his breaking baseball's color barrier.)

I dont know much about these players (with the exception of mattingly), but I wonder if we could match up the personality traits, physical traits, or anything else of these players with the main characters on Lost.

dmf, that is extremely interesting, considering that 42 was a special number on Hurley's lottery ticket.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~arie777/lost/index.html

If you click on screencaps of maps and details and scroll to the bottom you'll see a cap of Hurley's ticket. The 42 bubble was green, but all the other bubbles were white.

wow, that is very interesting. Good catch Surefire. So 42 was like the bonus number. And 42 in baseball is the number that cannot be used by any player.

I am going to look into the bios of each player and try to make some more connections.

I thought this was interesting:

Seeing the girls at the airport wearing the jerseys with the NUMBERS on them got me thinking about teams with those numbers and came up with this:

New York Yankees Retired numbers (this is the only team that had retired all the Lost NUMBERS):
4 - Lou Gehrig
8 - Yogi Berra
15 - Thurman Munson
16 - Whitey Ford
23 - Don Mattingly
42 - Jackie Robinson (played for the Brooklyn Dodgers, but Jackie Robinson's #42 has been retired by every major league club, to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his breaking baseball's color barrier.)

I dont know much about these players (with the exception of mattingly), but I wonder if we could match up the personality traits, physical traits, or anything else of these players with the main characters on Lost.


dmf, that is extremely interesting, considering that 42 was a special number on Hurley's lottery ticket.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~arie777/lost/index.html

If you click on screencaps of maps and details and scroll to the bottom you'll see a cap of Hurley's ticket. The 42 bubble was green, but all the other bubbles were white.


Lou Gehrig # 4:
Primary Position: First Baseman
Born: June 19, 1903
In the spring of 1923,* he signed with the Yankees, receiving a $1,500 bonus
"The Iron Horse."
First player this century to hit four home runs in a game
Holds the record for career grand slams at 23
Died at his home in Riverdale, N.Y., on June 2, 1941, exactly 16 years to the day after he replaced Pipp at first base.

Yogi Berra #8:
Position: Catcher
Born: May 12, 1925
signed with the Yankees in 1942
served in WWII - D-Day invasion
Fifteen-time All Star
he drove in 23 runs during one game
"He picked up his nickname from a friend who said he resembled a Hindu holy man (yogi) that they had seen in a movie. Young Mr. Berra apparently liked to sit on the ground while waiting for his turn to bat with his arms and legs crossed in a yoga-like position. "

Thurman Munson # 15:
position: catcher
Born: June 7, 1947
His baseball career was cut tragically short when he died in an airplane accident while practicing landing.

Whitey Ford # 16:
position: pitcher
Born: October 21, 1928
"The Chairman of the Board"

Don Mattinlgy #23:
position: 1st baseman
Born: 4/20/61
Awesome player, never won world series (I had to add that in because I think he deserved to win one)

Jackie Robinson #42:
position: Second Baseman
Born: January 31, 1919
First athlete in the history of UCLA to letter in four sports (baseball, football, basketball and track) in the same year
After Pearl Harbor, he was drafted into the Army and wound up a second lieutenant.
Diabetes and heart disease weakened him and he was almost blind in middle age;* died of a heart attack at 53.


ABOUT YANKEES STADIUM: at 161st Street and River Avenue in the Bronx, New York City, from 1923 to the present, excluding two years in the 1970s during renovation.

Dmf, there are some striking coincidences (no pun intended) in that information, if they are coincidences. Nice work! The prevalence of 23 I think is interesting since that's one of the numbers that seems to be significant to Kate.

Yes, especially with the first two players.* I moved the thread to here: http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=20124.0* *Let me know if you mind, I'll delete it.

dmf, I think it's a terrific idea!* Put some spin on that ball! :lol2:
It opens up the topic for people who may not be interested in the Locke/Kate connection.

kewl. thanks!

The Yankee numbers and Yankee stadium are another connection to NY. And remember we have BRONX tool and die company too!

interesting about the numbers!

There is no "Westhills" California within an hour of Tustin. "West Hills" California in the San Fernando Valley is a part of Los Angeles that didn't really exist prior to about 1990 (I think it broke off from Canoga Park). Oh, and if you think it is within an hour of Tustin, you had better be driving at 3:00am. :lol2:

There is no "Westhills" California within an hour of Tustin.* "West Hills" California in the San Fernando Valley is a part of Los Angeles that didn't really exist prior to about 1990 (I think it broke off from Canoga Park).* Oh, and if you think it is within an hour of Tustin, you had better be driving at 3:00am.*

Mapquest strikes again!* *:lol2:

ETA: ChiefTanLost, how long would that commute take? I take it you're a native Californian. Where did the West Hills name come from? Around here communities get named for things like historic school sites and old churches and such. There's a park up the street from me called the Old Rock School Park. There's no school there anymore, but the name sticks. When anyone asks me where I live, I say in the Old Rock School Park district. There's no community by that name, but everyone knows where it is. Perhaps that's close to how Westhills got it's name?

I don't think Westhills vs West Hills makes that big a difference. On the cap all the letters are in capitals IIRC.

Mapquest strikes again! :lol2:

ETA: ChiefTanLost, how long would that commute take? I take it you're a native Californian. Where did the West Hills name come from? Around here communities get named for things like historic school sites and old churches and such. There's a park up the street from me called the Old Rock School Park. There's no school there anymore, but the name sticks. When anyone asks me where I live, I say in the Old Rock School Park district. There's no community by that name, but everyone knows where it is. Perhaps that's close to how Westhills got it's name?

I don't think Westhills vs West Hills makes that big a difference. On the cap all the letters are in capitals IIRC.

Commuting time, it could take you two+ hours. 3am, maybe an hour. West Hills is in the western part of the Valley, so you are at the mercy of the 101 freeway, which is the absolute worst of the worst here.

The name is just made up, I think. Communities in the Valley are always breaking off of larger areas with bad name reputation. North Hills broke off from Van Nuys, West Hills broke off from Canoga Park, etc.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/shootfire/timecapballneg.jpg

Here's my negative effect pic.

Edited: Reyes looks kind of pinkish in the pic

I thought it says WESTHILLS again on the ball. That's what I see anyway.

I think all this talk of Locke's signature on the ball is really something. It is entirely feasible that locke was a baseball coach or something similar.

Do they have baseball summer camps in the USA? I ask because as my name suggests I am from the UK.

Add in the 'steal sign' comment from Michael to Locke, Kate's prowess with throwing rocks, and I think we have something.

I also thought that the orange peel smile was pertinent. Locke doing that, seemed to be totally strange at that time, but now if you look again at Kate's reaction to it, it seemed to me that she was vaguely recalling something from memory, but couldn't quite get it. If we go with the theory that Locke was involved with the baseball squad in some capacity, then it is possible that Locke would do his orange peel smile for the children to amuse them. Something Kate remembers that she has seen someplace before but can't put her finger on where.

The orange smile theory is interesting because I have always wondered about Kate's expression. I was confused by how she looked at Locke. I couldn't tell if it was disgust, confusion or if she was just thinking that Locke was plain old crazy!!

Normally (outside of Lost world) people would remember their baseball/softball coaches and if they ever saw them again, they would say hi. But in the Land of Lost, this doesn't happen. Everything has to be a puzzle!

Normally (outside of Lost world) people would remember their baseball/softball coaches and if they ever saw them again, they would say hi. But in the Land of Lost, this doesn't happen. Everything has to be a puzzle!

I don't know. There are some people that I knew when I was, say 10, that have changed so much that when I have seen them as an adult I don't recognize them.

I do think there's something up with the orange peel smile. I really thought she looked kind of puzzled. It's just such a subjective thing though. :)

The Yankee numbers and Yankee stadium are another connection to NY. And remember we have BRONX tool and die company too!

And isnt michael from NY too? So walt was probably born in NY (I cant remeber if that's true)?

The orange smile was freaky - I think it is somehow connected to Kate's past too, but if I saw him doing it, I would probably look at him in that way too. He reminded me of a scary clown.

Interesting! Here's an orange connection - at little league and soccer games it's traditional for a different parent each week to bring oranges for all the kids after games or practice. I like the thought that Locke used to do the "orange smile" and Kate recognized it.

Interesting! Here's an orange connection - at little league and soccer games it's traditional for a different parent each week to bring oranges for all the kids after games or practice. I like the thought that Locke used to do the "orange smile" and Kate recognized it.

Nietsche, is that a California little league tradition? It's new to me, but I'm interested. Both of my children played ball, but we rotated bringing Gatorade. ;)

My theory on the orange smile: Tom went to baseball camp in California. Locke may have been a coach. Kate either saw Tom do the orange smile when he returned, or saw a photo from Tom's camp trip that had someone doing the orange smile (possibly Locke) in the picture.

My theory on the orange smile: Tom went to baseball camp in California. Locke may have been a coach. Kate either saw Tom do the orange smile when he returned, or saw a photo from Tom's camp trip that had someone doing the orange smile (possibly Locke) in the picture.

That's a perfectly logical theory. I think it's equally possible that Kate went though. She's kind of a tomboy, and has an awfully accurate pitching arm.

Yogi Berra had 23 RBIs in ONE GAME??????? I don't know for sure but that almost has to be a mistake (not to mention an impossibility).

Could the orange theory, on bringing oranges to practice, be only done in Florida?


Where did Tom fly to by himself? Could it have been baseball camp?

I was only on a baseball team for one season in my youth, but I am a decent baseball player. I can throw like a guy and catch almost anything, and once in a while I really connect the bat to the ball. I don't think you need to have played organized ball to be good at it. We played scrub all the time when we were kids.

Yogi Berra had 23 RBIs in ONE GAME??????? I don't know for sure but that almost has to be a mistake (not to mention an impossibility).


http://www.yogiberra.com/about.html
4th paragraph - I think he was in the minor leagues when he did it.

(my 250th post!!)

In another thread, NaughtyPaws said:

Florida was where Hurley's orange stock was

So I'm sure I'm posting it in the wrong spot, but we did mention oranges and little league, and Locke's orange smile. But here we have another possible connection between Hurley and Locke (and possibly little league). It's not a direct connection, but its still something!!

So I'm sure I'm posting it in the wrong spot, but we did mention oranges and little league, and Locke's orange smile. But here we have another possible connection between Hurley and Locke (and possibly little league). It's not a direct connection, but its still something!!

I wonder if Hurley's sneaker factory manufactured cleats? :laugh:

wonder if Hurley's sneaker factory manufactured cleats?

Ohh...that could be true. But that means he make cleats now, not when Kate and Tom were younger. (I'm assuming Hurley is late 20s, early 30s) Still, there is a connection there too.

Nietsche, is that a California little league tradition?* It's new to me, but I'm interested.* Both of my children played ball, but we rotated bringing Gatorade. ;)


Good question - I don't know. We're in Massachusetts.

Neitsche, the mystery is solved. I went to the littleleague.org site. Sunkist is a sponsor.
It's official.


Sunkist® Citrus, the “Official Fresh Snack of Little League Baseball,” is proud to be a sponsor again in 2005. We've created www.TeamSunkist.com to promote healthier snacking with fresh Sunkist citrus. Visit and you'll find great recipes for team snacks and meals, plus tools and info to help busy parents. Download carpool schedules, score cards, homework hints and more.

the amount of orange connections is astounding. This thread has gotten very interesting!

http://www.westhillsbaseball.org/whbb2/whbb.cfm?view=about

Do the logos look the same? Getting a screen cap.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=450&pos=518

Don't look the same.

No, they don't look the same SG.* Still, it's pretty interesting.* I was reading that site and they're pretty proud of their baseball tradition, eh?* They started out with 3 year-old uniforms, and now they're the envy of L.A.* When did Kate and Tom make their recording?* Uniforms change over the years, I know because I've ordered new ones for the local league.* Basically, you order from a catalogue or a seamstress.* You get different letter styles to choose from every time you order.* The cap was red with white lettering, but the actual site has red lettering.* I think so long as you stick with the team colors, which are the same, it's plausible.

ETA: Looking at the site again, I realize that the letters are not just red. Still the blue could have been on a different part of the uniform at the time. Hmmm...

No, they don't look the same SG.* Still, it's pretty interesting.* I was reading that site and they're pretty proud of their baseball tradition, eh?* They started out with 3 year-old uniforms, and now they're the envy of L.A.* When did Kate and Tom make their recording?* Uniforms change over the years, I know because I've ordered new ones for the local league.* Basically, you order from a catalogue or a seamstress.* You get different letter styles to choose from every time you order.* The cap was red with white lettering, but the actual site has red lettering.* I think so long as you stick with the team colors, which are the same, it's plausible.

ETA:* Looking at the site again, I realize that the letters are not just red.* Still the blue could have been on a different part of the uniform at the time.* Hmmm...


Katie & Tommy made their recording 8/15/1989

Oh, but BINGO. I didn't look hard enough. These are the Westhills hats and they look pretty darn close to the one in the NKOTB timecapsule.

http://users.adelphia.net/%7Emfady/** * *

Don't those hats look fimiliar? I think the hats may change with the division or level team you are playing on.
There are also girl's teams. Like the Mustang Yankees

http://www.tnpc.com/yanks05/WordFind2005.htm There's also a word scramble (Oh, Shannon. How weird is that?)

I tried to find old info on the team, to see an old pik, but if you look at the few on that site, you can see their hats change a lot.

What is the name of the book you order supplies from, anyone know?

You changed your name!!!!!!!!!! Sam G

You changed your name!!!!!!!!!!* Sam G


I changed it just a little to protect the guilty, ME.

Katie & Tommy made their recording 8/15/1989

Oh, but BINGO. I didn't look hard enough. These are the Westhills hats and they look pretty darn close to the one in the NKOTB timecapsule.

http://users.adelphia.net/%7Emfady/ *Don't those hats look fimiliar? There are also girl's teams. Like the Mustang Yankees

http://www.tnpc.com/yanks05/WordFind2005.htm There's also a word scramble (Oh, Shannon. How weird is that?)

That sure does look like the same hat: http://users.adelphia.net/%7Emfady/Game4.html

How long until that site collapses under the stress of rampant lost fans clicking?

How did you find that? I need to take a course on surfing the net. Any suggestions?

That sure does look like the same hat: http://users.adelphia.net/%7Emfady/Game4.html

How long until that site collapses under the stress of rampant lost fans clicking?


Luck. I just went down the teams and they had Mustang (Mustang Sally) and I chose Angels because it sounded like it might be a girls team. (It's not) But then I did find some girls teams but the hat was what I was looking for.

There are also girl's teams. Like the Mustang Yankees

Hmmm...maybe that's where dmf's NY Yankee info comes in... :)

How long until that site collapses under the stress of rampant lost fans clicking?

:lol2: I missed that the first time. Oh, I hope we don't mess up their site.

Those hats do look awfully familiar. ;D

http://www.tnpc.com/yanks05/WordFind2005.htm There's also a word scramble (Oh, Shannon. How weird is that?)

Whoa! Hey, that Yankee's logo is a NY Yankees logo! I got something for one of the teachers at my son's school that had the very same logo on it. She's a Yankees fan.

Ok, maybe this is a stretch, but I can't help thinking it. With Kate's epi being called Born to Run and all, maybe Kate was a pinch runner. The wording of Locke's statement just kind of struck me as odd. He was talking to Kate when he said it. Hmm...

Locke

When the others find out the water's gone it's going to get ugly. And when they find out that someone pinched it, it's going to get uglier. I'll go. Camp needs you two here, especially with the doctor gone. And besides, I know where to look.

I know in Canada to pinch something is not used commonly to represent stealing, how about in the States?

It sounds British to me. Good catch, it does sound out of place.

It sounds British to me. Good catch, it does sound out of place.

It's not very common in these parts anyway. ;)

BTW, did anyone happen to notice that Jack broke up the coffin with a baseball bat? ;)

Locke

Hugo, take these extra sticks back a couple hundred yards.

OK, how did Locke know Hurley's real name was Hugo? The only person he has told is Jack IIRC. He told Jack when he decided he should conduct a census.

BTW, did anyone happen to notice that Jack broke up the coffin with a baseball bat? ;)


I thought it was a piece of pipe. It could have been an aluminium bat. I love the BTRas a reference to baseball, it's not obvious and you have to make the baseball connection.

We had the Red Sox but how did the Yankees get involved in this besides they were the only team that had retired all the numbers?

Pinched is quite a common term round my parts for stealing something. I live in Cambridgeshire, UK

Of course, as pinched means stealing, there is still a baseball connection.

Fantastic catch on the hats Sam_G. ;D

I had been on that site before but never noticed them.

Nice catch with the hats! And of course I'm acting like an addict because I want to make more connections!

Yankees and Red Sox - a very storied and old rivalry. * The whole "curse of the Bambino" had to do with Babe Ruth getting sold to the Yankees by the Red Sox owner, Harry Frazee, so that he could use the $$ to invest in a Broadway play., "No no nanette." *To win the World Series, the Red Sox had to beat the Yankees first. * ;) *

Anyway, there's a lot of ties between the two teams - make of it what you will.

I know in Canada to pinch something is not used commonly to represent stealing, how about in the States?

It sounds British to me. Good catch, it does sound out of place.

A pinch runner is put into the game to take the place of a teammmate who is already on base. The pinch runner is usually someone who is a fast runner and good base stealer, so they usually put him in to steal the base. Other reasons to put in a pinch runner is if the person on base is injured. Once a pinch runner is put into the game, the teammate who he replaced cannot come back into the game.

Pinched is quite a common term round my parts for stealing something. I live in Cambridgeshire, UK

Ukgirl, I think that made WIF's point. The next scene that had Charlie in it had him using the term nicked. It would have been less odd if Locke had used a term like swiped or stolen. There are other terms that are equally more "American," I'm just saying... ;) If Charlie had been in the scene, I would wonder if the term had more to do with Charlie. Since Locke was talking to Kate, though, I'm thinking it's about baseball.

BTW, did anyone happen to notice that Jack broke up the coffin with a baseball bat? ;)


Has anyone found a pik of this?

http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x05-whiterabbit/white-rabbit604.jpg

I found a pic of the coffin-smashing scene. It's blurry, though. Can't tell if it's a baseball bat or not.

And y'all, I've been reading this thread daily. Great work!

Has anyone found a pik of this?

Go to the LOST Library and link to the HDTV site. You won't be able to link to them but If you really want to see good caps I'd look there. You have to download them

I set that pik as my background, and asked a person who doesn't watch Lost what it looked like to him.

He said a microphone :P so I asked what else and he had nothing. When I suggested an aluminum baseball bat, he thought that was feasible.

I totally think it looks like a bat, with serious damage to the end of it. There is a lot of damage to the coffin at this point, so the bat would be all dented and deformed ???

Jack with a bat may have been a false alarm. I have the pics from the hd site Sam mentioned. I don't know why I didn't remember that before now. Anyway, the pics aren't a whole lot better there. I lightened them up a bit, but it's still hard to tell. It could just be a pipe.

I set that pik as my background,* and asked a person who doesn't watch Lost what it looked like to him.

He said a microphone* :P so I asked what else and he had nothing.* When I suggested an aluminum baseball bat, he thought that was feasible.

I totally think it looks like a bat, with serious damage to the end of it.* There is a lot of damage to the coffin at this point, so the bat would be all dented and deformed* *???


Ok I looked at White Rabbit part 4 - 051120 ans 051122 are the best. It looks like a hollow pipe to me. But in looking at those pictures they don't look like pieces of flight 815 either.

If you look at picture 051052 you can see part of the stuff is in a cave. How did it get there? Same as the Black Rock. I won't ask Danielle.

If you look at picture 051052 you can see part of the stuff is in a cave. How did it get there? Same as the Black Rock. I won't ask Danielle.

I see that SG. So there was another crash? What about Charlie's other guitar? Was it on the wrong flight? He had to check it. Sounds kind of like a midair collision doesn't it? I would think if there was another crash, it couldn't have been that long ago. The doll that was in the water would have been coated in algae or something if it had been there long. She looked like she was in pretty good shape.

I see that SG.* So there was another crash?* What about Charlie's other guitar?* Was it on the wrong flight?* He had to check it.* Sounds kind of like a midair collision doesn't it?* I would think if there was another crash, it couldn't have been that long ago.* The doll that was in the water would have been coated in algae or something if it had been there long.* She looked like she was in pretty good shape.*


The dolls were in pretty good shape. We are dealing with this Island. The chains in the Black Rocke weren't rusted either. Look at the pieces of the plane wreckage and there isn't anthing that looks like an Oceanic Logo, all the lines are thin and straight. ?

SG, I think we've caught something. This wreckage only has a red stripe. In the pilot, the fuselage and a dark blue band around the windows and a light blue stripe in addition to the red stripe.

mid-air crash :o

No I don't think it was a mid-air crash. This wreckage looks different. Also in the transcripts it specifies that Jack is in a cave and it is hard to see but Jack walks into the caves and part of the wreckage is in there. Plants are growing all around so it seems that the wreckage has been there for sometime. How did the wreckage get inside a cave? I'll look for screen caps. The best are on the HDTV site

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=47&pos=548* Jack in mouth of cave

http://www.lost-tv.com/pictures/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=363 This wreckage looks like a smaller older plane

http://www.lost-theseries.com/screencaps.php?view=cap&ep=5&id=NONAME_007_000_036.jpg The wreckage with the coffin is clearly inside the cave.

Just wanted to mention, because I didn't notice it elsewhere in this thread, Jack's connection to the Red Sox. "That's why the Red Sox will never win the World Series..."

Obviously, at least his Dad is a Red Sox fan, and probably Jack too. Is the black/white good/evil related to the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry?

Did I mention I was from Massachusetts? ;)

Just wanted to mention, because I didn't notice it elsewhere in this thread, Jack's connection to the Red Sox.* "That's why the Red Sox will never win the World Series..."

Obviously, at least his Dad is a Red Sox fan, and probably Jack too.* Is the black/white good/evil related to the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry?

Did I mention I was from Massachusetts?* ;)


Very good connection.

No I don't think it was a mid-air crash. This wreckage looks different. Also in the transcripts it specifies that Jack is in a cave and it is hard to see but Jack walks into the caves and part of the wreckage is in there. Plants are growing all around so it seems that the wreckage has been there for sometime. How did the wreckage get inside a cave? I'll look for screen caps. The best are on the HDTV site

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=47&pos=548* Jack in mouth of cave

http://www.lost-tv.com/pictures/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=363 This wreckage looks like a smaller older plane


Would this not be a clue that there was another crash - aside from the "drug-runner's" plane that was found by Locke and Boone. *

When they first explored the cave - next week in the Moth epi, I think - they found the remains of two bodies - male and female - and named them Adam and Eve. There is a great theory floating around here somewhere about *Amelia Erhardt and her co-pilot - whose bodies were never found BTW. *

I'm thinking the debris and such were from a previous crash. *Not the 815. *

This Island could be attracting all types of vessels and they are "crashing" there. *The Black Rock could have been a ship that was drawn there, Danielle's boat and crew, the Drug Runner Plane, the plane from the debris in the cave AND... *there may have been a "recent" crash in which there was a coffin, dolls, etc. that ended up there. *AND - of course good ole 815!

I would hate this being some type of "Bermuda Triangle" Island though. *That would be disappointing unless there is a "reason" these vessels and crew are being "drawn" there!! *

GL *8)

AS I noted earlier. I agree, Nietsche. BTW - NH here! :)


Yankees and Red Sox - a very storied and old rivalry. The whole "curse of the Bambino" had to do with Babe Ruth getting sold to the Yankees by the Red Sox owner, Harry Frazee, so that he could use the $$ to invest in a Broadway play., "No no nanette." To win the World Series, the Red Sox had to beat the Yankees first. ;)

Anyway, there's a lot of ties between the two teams - make of it what you will.

The stripes on that plane wreckage remind me of the American Airline planes.

http://www.aa.com/

Wouldn't Jack recognize whether or not it was indeed the coffin he chose for his father? That thing didn't look like a cheapo pine box, although it certainly smashed apart easily.

In the hd pics there is clearly a suitcase sitting on the ground in the cave open. It doesn't look like it was flung around. There aren't articles hanging out of it. It just looks like someone set it there and opened it. Maybe they were looking for hairbrushes. :lol2:

It's so funny when an idea will be accepted and when it won't. When WR was first aired I mentioned the idea that the wreckage was from another plane and got poo-pooed over it.
Of course, now I am a hardened warrior of finding the facts to back up what I say. I didn't know there were screen caps and transcripts to back my ideas. There weren't any other airplane crashes or wrecked ships either to prove that it could in fact be another plane. I think I was trying to prove that I didn't believe that Jack was able to get his father's body on the plane.

When Jack cones back with everyone, where did the coffin go to?

SG, did you think that some of the wreckage looked like it had been piled up? I know there were some things scattered here and there, but it looked to me like it should have been more scattered than it was. That's just an itty bitty piece of an airplane. :-\

SG, did you think that some of the wreckage looked like it had been piled up? I know there were some things scattered here and there, but it looked to me like it should have been more scattered than it was. That's just an itty bitty piece of an airplane. :-\

I keept thinking it's in a cave, if someone didn't put it there, how'd it get there. Then I think about the scene with Hurley and Danielle and the Black Rock. It's the Island.

SG, I think we've caught something. This wreckage only has a red stripe. In the pilot, the fuselage and a dark blue band around the windows and a light blue stripe in addition to the red stripe.

I'm not sure...there was a shot of a side panel on the beach, and it had just the red stripe (below the blue top/side where the windows are)...

Sam G
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.phpname=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=47&pos=548
Jack in mouth of cave
What are the 4 red rectangular shaped things to our right (looking at pik)?* The front one looks like a mask.

Sam G - http://www.lost-tv.com/pictures/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=363 This wreckage looks like a smaller older plane
What is in the bottom left of the pik?* Another mask, or just plane damage?* Doesn't the main piece of the plane look like a face?

If the wreckage in the cave had plants growing on it,* isn't that proof enough that it's a 3rd plane that crashed?

That would give us Flight 815......Black Rock.........Danielles ship..........Adam & Eve's plane?.........Drug runners plane.* What will they find next?* I can't wait.*

Back to the topic at hand.........Baseball........Look at this awesome post I found by a new poster in the Tib thread.

cmcdtv
The discussion of games and light/dark, along with a clue (forgive me, it was quite a few {ha!} pages back) about the Popul Vuh reminded me of the traditional "Pelota" game that was played by Mesoamerican cultures, made famous, if you will, by the Maya, who have come up more often than the question of who Tiberius is...
http://www.mexicodesconocido.com/english/historia/prehispanica/detalle.cfm?idsec=1&idsub=1&idpag=1956

This stood out immediately "The Popol Vuh says that many years ago when the universe was created, two brothers, Hunahpú and Ixbalanqué represented the bright side of the cosmos. They were entrusted to face the forces of darkness in a fight that would be settled with the juego de pelota (ballgame), and as a result started the eternal struggle between day and night, light and darkness, and life and death.

If you read on "This mythical game had a long-lasting result, as the brothers were sacrificed and eventually became the sun and the moon. "

I thought I'd jump into thread after finally catching up with my sis.

Also, there have been a few mentions of the Phoenix. Along with the Myth of the Phoenix, and the other discussions regarding the Phoenix that have been made, there is a great short story by Jorge Luis Borges "The Cult of the Phoenix", an interesting passage from the story about the members of the 'Cult':
"Lacking a sacred book to unite them as the Scriptures unite Israel, lacking a common memory, lacking that other memory that is a common language, scattered across the face of the earth, diverse in color and in feature, there is but one thing-the Secret- that unites them, and that will unite them until the end of time. Once, in addition to the Secret there was a legend, (and perhaps a cosmogonic myth), but the superficial men of the Phoenix have forgotten it, and today all that is left to them is the dim and obscure story of punsihment"

The above passage just reminded me of the Lost crew, especially Sun and Jin

A pinch runner is put into the game to take the place of a teammmate who is already on base. The pinch runner is usually someone who is a fast runner and good base stealer, so they usually put him in to steal the base. Other reasons to put in a pinch runner is if the person on base is injured. Once a pinch runner is put into the game, the teammate who he replaced cannot come back into the game.

I just had a silly funny idea. Maybe Kate was put into a game as a pinch runner because someone saw blood, passed out, and never played any kind of sport again. :lol2:

walt or sam g...i can't view this pic..."file-directory forbidden"...can you help or put it on photobucket plz?
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.phpname=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=47&pos=548

I had the same problem Tabby.

Sam G just posted to me on another thread where I posted it, that it's not working for her either, so I asked why, but no answer yet. Knowing her, she's finding a replacement as I type. ;D

The pic works now...thanks...but I don't see the 4 red rectangles...and I can't zoom it.

The pic works now...thanx...but I don't see the 4 red rectangles...and I can't zoom it.


It never seems to happen the same way for me, but if there is a pop up, after you press the arrow to make it enlarge, you have to close the window, and the enlarged pik will show then.


In the mysterious pik of Jack and his dad in his office, where you can see a person and Vincent, the person is wearing a shirt with a big diamond on it.

walt or sam g...i can't view this pic..."file-directory forbidden"...can you help or put it on photobucket plz?
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.phpname=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=47&pos=548

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=47&pos=548

That should do it.

It never seems to happen the same way for me, but if there is a pop up, after you press the arrow to make it enlarge, you have to close the window, and the enlarged pik will show then.

OK thanks...I will try that!

In the mysterious pik of Jack and his dad in his office, where you can see a person and Vincent, the person is wearing a shirt with a big diamond on it.

You mean the diamond is a dark outline on the white lab coat? *If so, I can faintly make that out.

And where do you see Vincent...as the head at the top of the lab coat...or at 12:00-1:00?

The fan http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/shootfire/vincent04.jpg


At the bottom is the person with a strange head and mouth, and Vincent is in the top, from 10 to 3.

I see a pattern on the coat that looks like plaid, with a large diamond.

The plane wreckage that included the coffin bears the same striping as the wreckage on the beach. The blue around the windows is just dusted or has been faded by heat or something. Put two pics side by side and it is fairly obvious.

The blue around the windows is just dusted or has been faded by heat or something.

That may be true Chief. I may have just lightened mine too much. It looked more silver to me. Still, there is something different about it...

I still can't figure out why the wreckage would be inside the cave though. :-\

WIF, I believe I have found your red rectangles. The boxes that the dolls come in are red with a cellophane window for viewing the doll. There's a pile of them, some of them with dolls still inside. Some of the dolls are outside the boxes.

That makes sense.* It looked like tribal masks, but it could be the packaging. SG told me to put a ? mark in to make it work, and I got sidetracked and forgot about it. :P


Quote
Sam G
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=47&pos=548
Jack in mouth of caveWhat are the 4 red rectangular shaped things to our right (looking at pik)? The front one looks like a mask.

Quote
Sam G - http://www.lost-tv.com/pictures/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=363 This wreckage looks like a smaller older planeWhat is in the bottom left of the pik? Another mask, or just plane damage? Doesn't the main piece of the plane look like a face?

Remember when I said I thought I could see the name Reyes on the baseball from Kate and Tom's timecapsule?* Well, I was going through promo pics on lost-media today, and I found a photograph in one of the Numbers pics.* It's a man and a woman with two children.* One of the children you can barely see because he is obscured by a nicnack on the shrine.* Isn't that a baseball bat the older boy is holding?* Also, look at the man.* Hurley's father?* He has a military looking haircut.*

ETA: the link... :lol2:

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=241&pos=8

Yes, it looks like a baseball bat- and both of the children are wearing baseball caps.

So what happened to Hurley's brother (or maybe sister)?

So what happened to Hurley's brother (or maybe sister)?

My guess is that one of the children in the picture is Hurley and the other is Tito, Hurley's brother. Tito was in the scene when Hurley gave the lottery press conference.

oh, yes, I forgot about Tito.

For some reason my advanced search isn't working. Was it this thread that someone mentioned Sunkist being a sponser for little league baseball? The reason I ask is I had a DUH moment today. The in plain sight thing. I live in the San Fernando Valley. The old Sunkist world headquarter was at Hazeltine and Riverside drive in Sherman Oaks. They use the Sunkist building all the time in Alias. It looks like a Federal Building.

It was this one Sam G. Nice catch. (no pun intended) ;)

I'm totally new here guys so bear with me if I'm annoying or say something dated. As far as orange slices at baseball and softball games, YES that is common. And if Locke was in fact Kate's coach or something of the sort, she probably wouldn't recognize him after so long, especially with all the crazy stuff going on in her life, and having just been in a horrible plane crash. But, seeing him do the orange smile would totally trigger a memory. Who put the baseball in the time capsule, Kate or Tom? That would tell is who it actually belongs to and, in turn, who was on the team, possibly coached by Locke.
As you can tell, I have been totally sucked in to this thread and this show. Thanks a lot folks! ;)

Welcome, mjhoke!

And if Locke was in fact Kate's coach or something of the sort, she probably wouldn't recognize him after so long, especially with all the crazy stuff going on in her life, and having just been in a horrible plane crash. But, seeing him do the orange smile would totally trigger a memory. Who put the baseball in the time capsule, Kate or Tom? That would tell is who it actually belongs to and, in turn, who was on the team, possibly coached by Locke.

That's what I'm thinking mj. My take on it though, is that if Kate has remembered, she's probably not saying anything. Kate holds her cards pretty close to her vest. If Locke was her coach, he might put two and two together if she came out and told him who she was. Also, his minor referrences to baseball, could be his way of letting Kate know that he knows who she is. Could they be a subtle threat?

I'm reminded of the moment that Jack asked Kate, right before the boar hunt, what her take was on her new friend. Kate said, "He seems to know what he's doing." That's not exactly a straight answer now is it? It's not at all like Charlie's answer that he thinks Locke is a freak of nature.

I'm totally new here guys so bear with me if I'm annoying or say something dated. As far as orange slices at baseball and softball games, YES that is common. And if Locke was in fact Kate's coach or something of the sort, she probably wouldn't recognize him after so long, especially with all the crazy stuff going on in her life, and having just been in a horrible plane crash. But, seeing him do the orange smile would totally trigger a memory. Who put the baseball in the time capsule, Kate or Tom? That would tell is who it actually belongs to and, in turn, who was on the team, possibly coached by Locke.
As you can tell, I have been totally sucked in to this thread and this show. Thanks a lot folks! ;)

Hey MJ welcome to the Fuse. Nothing is dated, we go back and look and find something we totally missed the 1st, 4th or 42nd time. Jump in. The link to the LOST Library is on the bottom of my post, it lists a bunch of threads and useful sites.

I just finished reading this ENTIRE post, and had to throw my 2 cents in.

The 42 on Hurley's lottery slip was colored differently because it was the power ball number.

Oranges are a very common snack for Little League Baseball Teams here in Texas, too. Bananas sometimes too, but usually oranges.

If Locke was Kate's baseball coach from some long ago time when she was 9 or 10 years old, she might have a hard time recognizing him, but the fact that he probably had hair at that time, as shown in his flash backs, and is completely egg head bald now would make it even harder, don't you think?

Great thread.

If Locke was Kate's baseball coach from some long ago time when she was 9 or 10 years old, she might have a hard time recognizing him, but the fact that he probably had hair at that time, as shown in his flash backs, and is completely egg head bald now would make it even harder, don't you think?

Good point. Locke also seems to have undergone a personality transplant since landing on the island. I'm sure that would mess with her head too. :lol2:

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=241&pos=8

Its not baseball but it it is a picture of Hurley and a scale
Do scales have something to do with Spanish shrines?

Could scales just be another reference to sides, balance etc.?

Notice the ketchup on Hurley's right leg, it looks like a head and shoulders.

Do scales have something to do with Spanish shrines?

I can't say for sure, as I'm neither Spanish nor Catholic, but I believe I have a pretty good idea of the symbolism of the scales. You will also notice a cross on the shrine. In biblical times people were paid for things like grain by a particular weight system. The scales were set to show how much a product was worth according to how much weight it took to counterbalance. I think the symbolism is for Christ paying on the cross for our redemption.

scales of justice - it's symbolic of law

scales of justice - it's symbolic of law

Except the scales look to be balance from the top of the cross?

Except the scales look to be balance from the top of the cross?

Altho it looks that way, I don't see how it could not tip over, with such a small base. It would be precarious, at best.
A clue? Someone's faith is precarious? Something is out of balance? Injustice or inequity to come? Does it refer to Hurley's "bad luck numbers" since he is holding the lotto ticket in this scene?

the "scale of justice" has importance in Roman Catholicism (this includes Spanish)

The scale is used on judgement day to weigh the soul. The weight of your soul will decide if you go to heaven or hell

The scale is used by the Archangel Michael

On a side note, Michael (the Archangel) slayed the dragon (Michael is often represented carrying a spear or a sword)
In Lost our Michael somehow slayed Walt's dragon (the polar bear)
And we know Michael is a builder (construction worker, he designed showers, the raft, etc) If the "monster" (dragon) is mechanical, maybe is this foreshadowing that he will also slay that dragon/monster

Here are some words about the Archangel Michael :

---
St. Michael is one of three archangels (the others are Gabriel and Raphael) whose feast day is celebrated on Sept. 29. Michael is mentioned by name four times in the Scriptures Ð twice in the Old Testament (Dn 10:13ff and 12:1), as helper to the Israelites Ð and twice in the New Testament (Jude v.9 and Rv 12:7-9), as the victorious opponent of the devil. He is most often depicted wearing armor and brandishing a sword, either fighting or standing triumphantly over the devil. Because of his role as protector he is identified as the patron of police officers.

Michael is often depicted holding the scales of "justice", or sometimes even the Book of Life, both which symbolize the Last Judgment. Though Michael is not mentioned by name here, it seems that tradition has associated him with the angel of Revelation who holds the book (Rv 20:1). Likewise, it seems that the defeat of the Devil by Michael, (which is depicted in scripture) may also be equated with the triumph of justice (hence the scales).

Another tradition (alluded to in the letter of Jude) has Michael in the role of "defense attorney." Michael disputed with the devil over the body of Moses, whom the devil claimed because he had killed a man while living in Egypt (Ex 2:12). Michael's great defense won him the body of Moses. Perhaps the scales derive from that tradition.
---

Another tradition (alluded to in the letter of Jude) has Michael in the role of "defense attorney." Michael disputed with the devil over the body of Moses, whom the devil claimed because he had killed a man while living in Egypt (Ex 2:12). Michael's great defense won him the body of Moses. Perhaps the scales derive from that tradition.
---


That's interesting, because Susan was an attorney. I don't know if we know what kind though? I know she deals with international law?

I hope Michael gets to be the Knight in shining armor that saves the day, and Walt. Maybe in his distress, Michael will realize that he has special powers too? If the writer's are going along this line, what do you think will represent the sword or spear? There is talk that the diary girl's metal thing in her dive bag could be a spear gun.

what do you think will represent the sword or spear?


Well that's a very good question
Michael already has his "sword" so to speak (or at least he had it)
Whn Walt was trapped by the polar bear, Locke's knife was close enough to a sword

Lost has a biblical meaning and reference, and i think it's almost taken for granted now
the season one lasts 40 days, we have a new born named Aaron (related to Moses) His mother Claire went to see a psychic (prophet) with a friend named Rachel (also related to Moses) We have black/white (aka good/evil) opposition, whe have a "greater good", a "deus (god) ex machina)", we have a season finale called "Exodus" a book of The Book (Bible) and a ...
season 2 premiere supposedly called "Genesis" also a book from the Bible
We have a rising tide washing away a fuselage once it's been visited by a couple of animals (possibly figurating Noah's Ark). We have Locke talking about "man of faith". We have a Beechcraft full of statues of Mary, filled with drugs (temptation). We have a reborn catholic, Charlie, and a very believing Rose. Even Sawyer sang a song from Bob Marley (Redemption song)
I could go on forever, but definitely something very spiritual on this show.

So if i'm right, and Michael is indeed intended to be the Archangel, there are many ways he could get his sword. Actually the shape of the sword is not relevant by itself. We are now in 2004 (Craphole island's date) and technology is different from the time of the Bible. The sword does not need to be a sword, it can take any form, as long as it is able to slay the demon
Adding 2 and 2 we have on the island a believer in the island, by the name of Locke, who is very good at "putting bits and pieces together", we have Michael who is what we could call an "inventor". We have the "mind" and the "arms", the thinker and the builder. And we also have Sayid for the "electronics department
Michael designed the raft and showers for the camp, Sayid fixed the radar and the tranceiver, Locke made a crib, hallucinogenic compound, and glue. Sun can use poison.
When i think about that i nearly believe that we may have an episode of the "A Team" where they will ultimately build a device to "punish the bad guys"

In this theory, if the "monster" is a security system like Danielle said, or whatever device controlled by the Others and threatening the lostaways, i think that many of the competences of the lostaways will be put together to give Michael a "sword" (could be an electronic device, some explosive materials, you name it) and he will be sent to deactivate the device or monster.

It's not quite clear yet, but since Walt has been taken away, since all hope of getting away seems "lost" i think Michael will have no other choice but to step forward and stop trying to flee, and will be forced to face the music.
He only wanted to get back to his old life with his son, now he has a motive to stay and fight.
The Archangel Michael fits in the picture here, and Michael will certainely become most interested in fighting the others and whatever's at work on this island.

Isn't the pen mightier than the sword? Michael is an artist. Perhaps that will be his sword.

Isn't the pen mightier than the sword?* Michael is an artist.* Perhaps that will be his sword.


Loves it. This show has so much deception and side stepping that maybe he will make an optical illusion to trap the monster. Oh the possibilities are endless.

OK, so listen. I'm still stuck on the whole Kate/Locke/baseball coach thing. I've just accepted that I'll never figure it out, so it's time to move on. Here's my new thing. Everyone on the island has been given the chance to or is already living in a completely opposite way than they were in the "real world". The significance of this, I'm not sure. But think about it. First, we have Charlie- strung out rock star in his former life. Now- sober, selfless, still playing music, but not exactly famous on the island. LOCKE- wheelchair bound, middle-management, demeaned on a daily basis, stuck in a cubicle, pretty sad life if you ask me. He had the mental capacity to do the things he wanted to do, but was physically inable. Now, he's kicking a$$ and taking names. He's functioning the best out of everyone. KATE- she had been living life on the run for crimes she had committed. She really only cared about herself and used people to get what she wanted, even killing and stealing. Now, she's become pretty selfless as well and is actually doing what's right and showing that she does, in fact, have a conscience. (spelling? :P) MICHAEL- He's getting a chance to be a dad. He's learning to trust others (especially Locke) and be vulnerable. CLAIRE- like, Michael, she's become a parent. Uh...that's pretty much it. haha SAYID- He's actually using his skills for something good. He's also into Shannon, which means he's moving on in his love life, something he couldn't do before. SHANNON- She's actually stuck in one place, instead of continent and boyfriend hopping. She's into a nice guy for a change (Sayid) and I haven't seen her make herself puke yet, so maybe she's over that too! SUN- she was so close to breaking free at the airport, but got sucked back in by a freaking flower! It took the island to give her the courage to stand on her own. JACK- oh, Jack. Always afraid of his father. Always dealing with his father. Father, father, father. Blah, blah, blah. Well, daddy's gone now and Jack can get on with his own life. He's actually developing a personality. And he's doing an excellent job as a leader and a doctor. JIN- obviously he's no longer a hitman for his father-in-law on the island. That's definitely a change. He's working well with others (Michael) and letting Sun do her thing. He seems to have removed the stick from his you know what. SAWYER- it's slow-going, but he's kinda being nice and helpful, sometimes. I guess he's a slow-learner. But he is doing a better job of being a human than before, so you gotta give him credit.

Here's where I'm stuck- Hurley, Walt, Boone, Vincent (that's kinda funny). Does anyone have something to say about how they're living differently? And Danielle? WTF?

So, my point is, after all this rambling, is that maybe if you're living right and being productive and fair, perhaps you're not really lost. It doesn't matter where you are, whether it's in NYC, LA, or some random island.
They all seem to have been lost before the flight. They should change the name of the show to FOUND.

OK, so listen. I'm still stuck on the whole Kate/Locke/baseball coach thing. I've just accepted that I'll never figure it out, so it's time to move on.

Hee hee, mjhoke, I feel your pain. I have a strong feeling that the baseball stuff in Kate and Tom's timecapsule was Kate's. The problem is there is no way to prove it. The oranges would go along with Sam G.'s observations in her thread Juice...The Theory. Kate was shown drinking orange juice on the plane, she wears an orange shirt quite often. It seems to be a theme. I don't know if this helps you or makes you more confused. Anyway, I noticed that Sam has added to her thread, bringing it back to the front page. You might want to check that one out too.

If Locke was Kate and Hurley's coach that would explain how Locke knew Hurley's name was Hugo. Hurley would not have remembered Locke because he is bad with faces (like with Ethan). Also Kate knew Locke's first name before anyone else did.

If Locke was Kate and Hurley's coach that would explain how Locke knew Hurley's name was Hugo. Hurley would not have remembered Locke because he is bad with faces (like with Ethan). Also Kate knew Locke's first name before anyone else did.

And that Kate called Locke, John, instead of Locke. Which also could show some respect for him.

If Locke was Kate and Hurley's coach that would explain how Locke knew Hurley's name was Hugo. Hurley would not have remembered Locke because he is bad with faces (like with Ethan). Also Kate knew Locke's first name before anyone else did.


You're absolutely right, Max. I had forgotten that. Kate called Locke John before he had been introduced to anyone by that name.

Just a thought, since girls don't play baseball, they play softball. And the ball is a baseball, not a softball, maybe the ball is Tom's and Locke was Tom's coach. They have mixed softball teams for kids, but baseball is usually all boys. It would still connect Locke and Kate, just not as directly.

Just a thought, since girls don't play baseball, they play softball.

It's entirely possible, of course, but I wouldn't say that girls don't play baseball.

*makes mental note to rent A League of Their Own...*

Girls do occasionally join boy's baseball teams. My daughter was the only girl on an all boy team many years ago.

From spoiler's I have read, it seems the Canadian connection has been nixed by the staff, or are they misdirecting us??

We play baseball on all girls teams here in Canada. Even fastball.

Since orange has made a comeback. I thought there might be more info coming into light.

I see "orange" and "baseball" together, and I immediately think Minute Maid Park (nee: Enron Field)! Go Astros!

Sorry. Back to Lost.

Really intresting thread. I had a dream at one point about baseball with this show.

Swear to god...Locke used to play baseball in it.

We have Kate swinging a golf club with a great degree of accuracy. I bet she played baseball.

We have Kate swinging a golf club with a great degree of accuracy. I bet she played baseball.

Sam G,

I've read this idea of yours in other threads and I have to disagree. I think it's a stretch to say that because she swings a golf club "with a great degree of accuracy" that she played baseball. Perhaps she played golf?

Sam G,

I've read this idea of yours in other threads and I have to disagree. I think it's a stretch to say that because she swings a golf club "with a great degree of accuracy" that she played baseball. Perhaps she played golf?Johnny, Then you know it also fits with her throwing rocks really well and we have the baseball cap and baseball that were in the time capsule. We just like the idea that it was Kate's baseball cap and ball.

She could have played golf too, she also said she knew how to sail. Both seem a little out of character because they seem to belong to people that live in another tax bracket then Diane & Wayne. It usually takes money to do both of those things. Or it was a summer job and you got to hang around that stuff.

Kate: I spent 2 summers crewing J boats. I know my way around a sailboat.

Which led me to something I hadn't paid attention to before "J boats" it seem J boats are racing boats. ttp://www.jboats.com/jnew.htm. I don't think they do anybigtime sailing in Iowa. This could possibly link to Desmond and Shannon.

Johnny, Then you know it also fits with her throwing rocks really well and we have the baseball cap and baseball that were in the time capsule. We just like the idea that it was Kate's baseball cap and ball.

She could have played golf too, she also said she knew how to sail. Both seem a little out of character because they seem to belong to people that live in another tax bracket then Diane & Wayne. It usually takes money to do both of those things.

Kate: I spent 2 summers crewing J boats. I know my way around a sailboat.

Which lead me to something I hadn't paid attention to before "J boats" it seem J boats are racing boats. ttp://www.jboats.com/jnew.htm. I don't think they do anybigtime sailing in Iowa. This could possibly link to Desmond and Shannon.

Sam,

I like the possible link to Desmond and Shannonj, even though I agree that her family's economic level doesn't seem to jive -- unless she did these things with her dad. I also hadn't taken into account, mainly because I forgot, the baseball cap and ball. If they are her's and not Tom's that would be pretty good evidence of her playing baseball -- as well as her throwing ability.

a PS on Sports...
I once won some free golf lessons so... I was there, swinging etc etc. and I was doing pretty good for a first time. The instructor came out with "Do you play tennis too?"
me: "No, I play softball. But I played tennis as a kid for 4 years"
guy: "That's it... The way you start the swinging movement from the hips and then the shoulders follow. Basically, the principle is the same in all these sports."

Ergo: Kate may be very accurate 'by nature' or she may have played other sports too, sports that involve some sort of swinging movement.

NB: I said "may". No certainty, of course. Just my opinion.

Yeah, I don't think it has much to do with the rest of the thread but it would be interesting, wouldn't it? My wife and I lived in Dallas all of our life - in the same general part of town but never meet each other until both of us were past 30. We frequented many of the same places and many of the same events. It's possible we walked right past each other several times before we formally met - many times. It's kinda weird to think about.

dave

(It would be an interesting experiment to see how many of us on this board have crossed paths in real life, wouldn't it?* Find out whether any of us were ever in the same airport at the same time, or something?)

This thread is filled with all sorts of little interesting tidbits I've forgotten or didn't pay much attention to despite watching every episode multiple times :)

I didn't remember that Kate mentioned spending 2 summers crewing J boats. Your right, that does hook back into Desmond and Shannon, at the very least. Great catch!

dave

Kate: I spent 2 summers crewing J boats. I know my way around a sailboat.

Which led me to something I hadn't paid attention to before "J boats" it seem J boats are racing boats. ttp://www.jboats.com/jnew.htm. I don't think they do anybigtime sailing in Iowa. This could possibly link to Desmond and Shannon.

Yeah, I don't think it has much to do with the rest of the thread but it would be interesting, wouldn't it? My wife and I lived in Dallas all of our life - in the same general part of town but never meet each other until both of us were past 30. We frequented many of the same places and many of the same events. It's possible we walked right past each other several times before we formally met - many times. It's kinda weird to think about.

daveThe 6 degrees of separation. I live in LA, well what you would consider the LA area. I moved here from St. Louis and I am constantly running into people that know someone that I know. Look for the common denominator.

jack said gold was a game of accuracy..

whats baseball a game of????

I was watching the Orange Smile Easter Egg on the DVD and noticed that Locke was deliberatelyrolling the orange around in his hand like you would a baseball.

Bess, I did a google search on that a long time ago. The only Westhills anything I could find in relation to Iowa was a realtor. Of course, it could just be a fictional place, but none of the other places in the show have been fictional.




The only thing in the conversation that sounds like long-term knowledge of one another is Tom's comment, "you always want to run away, Katie." That could just as easily mean that she has runaway from foster care several times. If we apply the CIA's logic to this situation, there are only two reasons she would want to run away all the time. Either she's running from something, which is unlikely given her age unless it's an abusive parent/stepparent, or she's looking for something. Is she looking for her father?


the term "run away" means exactly as it states: run..away. meaning running away from something- you don't use the term run away if u are looking for something. you would just say "you're always running" or "moving" or something. running away implies hiding.

the term "run away" means exactly as it states: run..away. meaning running away from something- you don't use the term run away if u are looking for something. you would just say "you're always running" or "moving" or something. running away implies hiding.


LOL, did you happen to catch the date on that post? I'm sure a lot of this stuff sounds strange now, but back then we didn't have nearly as much information as we have now.:biggrin:

I'm sure it is here on this thread. Westhills Baseball is in California and they have boys and girls pony leagues.

http://www.netsport.org/pictures/displayindex.php?series=01pd

Also one of the teams is called the mustangs. Could this all be a clue pointing to Kate's horse?

I'm wondering if they took some of hte Westhills baseball sites down because they were getting too much internet traffic?

As I was RE-watching the epidsode where Claire comes back and Ethan is going to kill one person every day until she comes back...I think it's called "Homecoming" I noticed something about Locke that reminded me of this thread.

They are planning on defending the beach camp and Locke has a stick or something. He has it resting on his shoulder and then he does this twirl thing...don't know the technical name for it but it looks exactly like what baseball players do with their bats.

Anyone else notice that?

C.

As I was RE-watching the epidsode where Claire comes back and Ethan is going to kill one person every day until she comes back...I think it's called "Homecoming" I noticed something about Locke that reminded me of this thread.

They are planning on defending the beach camp and Locke has a stick or something. He has it resting on his shoulder and then he does this twirl thing...don't know the technical name for it but it looks exactly like what baseball players do with their bats.

Anyone else notice that?

C.

Sounds like this is the perfect time to watch RBA and Homecoming. Not only will I get a chance to work on a pet theory, but it will flow ever so smoothly into the new Claire ep in a couple of weeks. Thanks.

I miss the days when times were simpler and we were trying to figure out how baseball and oranges connected to Kate and Locke. Maybe something will turn up in the LTDA.

I've read through the Juice thread and I just finished this one. Good stuff. Kate and Locke, in my opinion are the most interesting characters. My personal favorites and I love these connections.

A while back there was some discussion about what Jack used to smash his father's casket. I was hoping for a baseball bat but according to the script at Press Execute (pg. 61):

And Jack's pulling a METAL ROD from the wreckage, and raising over his head and he -- SMASHES the coffin. Over and over. Into f****** splinters.

I miss the days when times were simpler and we were trying to figure out how baseball and oranges connected to Kate and Locke.

Aint that the truth. I used to wait with baited breath for new clues ... now I'm completely overwhelmed. I'm not complaining though, cause there are some seriously awesome theorists here on the lage, that tie it up all with a nice orange bow. :rolleyes:

S3/ATOTC: Sawyer threw the fish biscuit (red herring) over to Kate. She reached through her cage's bars and made quite a nice catch. Kinda funny, also, fish = "catch of the day".