Sayid finally brought up the fact that they shouldn't have survived the crash (with hardly a scratch). Is this starting to confirm the idea that the only folks that survived were supposed to (their miracle/redemption)? Or is it reaffirming some of the suspicions that they didn't really survive?

Carol -

Yes.

Speaker, you've been on this board too long; you're starting to answer like Uncle Fury.

Do none of you here watch Babylon 5? Because I seriously think speaker's brain has been taken over by a Vorlon. *peers closely into speaker's ear* Can't tell from here. Need to operate.

*preps bone saw*

Ok vagueness is a plague upon this board....

And I do agree it is about time they mention the craziness of any survivors. Wonder if they bring it up just to put the "it happened, deal with it" fanwanking to rest, or to make us wonder more....

Carol - If I don't learn from him, how else will i work for/with him? :-D

june-

I'm fine woman! i'm FINE!

Did you people not read my topic about Speaker working for the all too dangerous JJ and crew? I really think he is lonely in coach but this is between me and him and I will leave you two ladies out of this. *:starwars: I carry the green light saber.

But to answer your question carol, I think the survivors have obviously been thinking how in the world any of them could have survived and with Sayid's assumed religion beliefs, Sayid has to be either questioning his faith or believing his faith is holding true and needing to talk to someone kind of took a small jab with Kate because Sayid trusts Kate. Nothing more.

Psshhh.....Mr Economy Class...I'm on my way!!!!! :starwars:
eat red lightsaber young padawan!

*stares at lightsaberfightingsmilies* :malelovies: I knew there was a reason I love this board.

cuz two you hot strapping men dual it out over who has more stars?

You're weird you are.

shut up you are not on Yoda's side. >:(

You on the dark side. very bad you are.

my what...obiwan would never bother...telling you about you about your father....

Seriously one of my first thoughts upon watching the first episode of this show was "How providential that so many people survived such a horrible crash." I chalked it up to what Kate said (dumb luck) as well as the writers needing a show but since Sayid brought it up obviously it's not as simple as that, otherwise that would be wasted dialogue.

Everything is shown for a reason. These writers are sneaky buggers (I'm lookin' at you, Dini!) Sayid's words about surviving the crash are definitely a taste of what's to come.

I think the survivors are going to question their fortune more and more. To what end, I have no idea. That's one of the things that make this show great.

What's interesting is that in the TV Guide piece on Lost, Evangeline Lilly was describing that conversation and siad that Kate was going to say, "What, you think that we're all dead?" This line obviously got cut or re-recorded. I wonder if that's because of all the speculation about them being dead.

cardie lost.....

Fury actually said in the vip lounge that someone was going to bring that up.........perhaps it was cut for time...i doubt they cut it fro the spec...or maybe ABC thought that was too deep for mainstream viewers?

I was looking for comment on the VIP lounge. I guess I didn't recognize the subject from the thread title. I'm not saying this signals that they aren't or are dead, just that if this is a hot topic of speculation, why not remain mum on it so as not to spoil anyone's fun. ;D

Sayid finally brought up the fact* that they shouldn't have survived the crash (with hardly a scratch).* Is this starting to confirm the idea that the only folks that survived were supposed to (their miracle/redemption)?* Or is it reaffirming some of the suspicions that they didn't really survive?


I think it's the fact that they were supposed to survive. Otherwise I don't think the marshall would have lived at all. As it was he lived long enough to let Kate talk to him, which may have been something she needed to do.

Well, I refer to Joss lovingly as "the evil genius", because he loves mis-direction. I have a feeling that the writers/producers for LOST are of the same ilk, and I adore them for it. They throw out bits that may be relevent or may not be, and they are rubbing their hands together in a room somewhere going, "Mwahahahahahahaha". ;D

Sayid basically said what we've been thinking.

* How many times do I have to dispel this their dead, their in purgatory theory? Huh! *
* So, Lil Surfer Girl died twice, Manly Marshall died twice. *For what, so Kate could learn
* something from his death. *Are the writers ever going to give us the backstory on
* the Lil Surfer Girl, I doubt it. *People keep getting hurt and dying. *I'm no religious scholar but,
* I don't think that is what purgatory is suppose to be about. *Besides, most religions in this country,
or the world for that matter do not even have the word purgatory as part of their dogma,
so why would the LOST creators want to make a show about it as the main theme?

*Hiram just realizes he forgot his morning meds*

uh, Sorry for the rant folks! *But, "THEY ARE NOT DEAD!" * :lol2:

They aren't dead! They are LOST!

I agree they aren't dead........BUTTTTTTTTTT if they were...people who die there coudl be going on to heaven or hell.......The marshall was close to death so he was CLOSE to heaven or hell......etc...

But i do not believe this.

In aintitcool.com I read that there was a parallel with Stephen King's "The Stand" in the entire feel of the series, so your "heaven/hell" thing might me very close.

I don't believe they are dead because that would just defeat the purpose of having a dramatic plot-- why care about the characters if it's not going to matter? The reason they survived that crash was because they had to-- there wouldn't be a show if they hadn't, yes?

Or maybe the show will turn out to have a Sophie's World-type premise. You'd never know...

June: To the comment about not caring for the characters if they were dead. So a person would not care about a character if the character was already dead? Hmm, does not make sense to me. The audience has characters to relate too and with. This means the audience naturally is going to care about one character on the show since the show is so diverse. Dead or alive, the audience will care for a character. Maybe I missed the point, tell me if I did.

Speaker: I agree as well, no one is dead till the island kills him or her. Well, in the case of the drowned girl, maybe the water killed her but speculation may say the island had something to do with this. But if this were purgatory, the three people who have died, the marshal, the drowned girl, and the pilot, went to hell right? I mean, none of the three died a pleasant death. I would associate a painful or scary death with hell, and a happy death with heaven. Come on people, this is not purgatory. Makes zero sense and would not be relevant in today's society.


Hiram Abif: you are %100 correct sir.

Hmm. What I was trying to say was along the lines of "I would be really disappointed if this show turned out to be the purgatory type because I've been caring about the development and possible rescue of these characters and it turns out that it was all for nothing and they're just waiting to DIE." Of course, there would be people who wouldn't really be bothered by this because the people-finding-resolution-before-they-die thing works for them... I am not such a person, unfortunately.

Also: How in the world would one die a happy death? I mean, they're stuck on an island so the only way I forsee characters dying is through some horrible injury/food poisoning or the like.

And finally: Don't you ever sleep? ;)

Hmm. What I was trying to say was along the lines of "I would be really disappointed if this show turned out to be the purgatory type because I've been caring about the development and possible rescue of these characters and it turns out that it was all for nothing and they're just waiting to DIE." Of course, there would be people who wouldn't really be bothered by this because the people-finding-resolution-before-they-die thing works for them... I am not such a person, unfortunately.

I understand your point now and completely agree. I would be horribly disappointed if this was a purgatory situation or had anything specifically to do with religion. I would not mind if there were religion aspects like there have been but nothing more in depth.


Also: How in the world would one die a happy death? I mean, they're stuck on an island so the only way I forsee characters dying is through some horrible injury/food poisoning or the like. And finally: Don't you ever sleep? ;)


I was thinking more along the lines of dying what is assumed a peaceful death in s persons sleep or something instant as assumed like "a bullet in your head". Someone tell me what the quote I just quoted is from. Such a great line and a great ****.

I do sleep but sparingly. I have Lost things to talk about and some school work for college.

June-

Marvel has a comic book miniseries by Neil Gaiman called "Marvel 1602"...it's the marvel universe but it takes place in 1602..

Reed Richards, Mr. Fantastic of the Fantastic Four is talking to Benn Grimm, The Thing, Johnny Storm, the human torch, and Sue Storm, The Invisible Woman and this conversation takes place:

Sue: So, what are these fundamental principles, if they are not atoms?

Reed: Stories. And they give me hope. We are not a boatful of monsters and miracles, hoping that somehow, we can survive a world in which all hands are against us. A world which by all evidence will end extremely soon. Yet I posit we are in a universe which favours stories. A universe in which no story can ever end; in which there can be only continuances. If we are in such a universe as I have a chance.

Johnny: You're talking rot, Reed. Poor jean grey's story is over. Von Doom's story is done. All tales end. and our world will end likewise.

Ben: Reed-you spoke of transmutations. Can you restore to me my humanity? I have been a monster too long.

Reed: In truth, i do not know my friend. The natural sciences say yes, a cure is possible. But the laws of story would suggest that no cure can last for very long, Benjamin, for in the end, alsas, you are so much more interesting and satisfying as you are.

Perhaps a similar theory applies here. They survived because it's more interesting. Because the Story Gods dictate it so.

Perhaps a similar theory applies here.* They survived because it's more interesting.* Because the Story Gods dictate it so.

That's an absolutely Pratchettian thing to say :D Suspension Of Disbelief Helps Move Along The Plot, that kind of thing, yes? :)

Terry Pratchet??? LOL w00t! But yes...exactly! I mean with all the mythologies around shows and movies out there, why dismiss something like story gods, beings like Fury and Javi and Damon and Deni and JJ and J-Jo who make things happen because it entertains them......

Of course some people may take this theory and say it supports the Locke's Head theory...

But no...i suggest this is all REAL and that the universe they are in allows for these things to happen...

For shirts and giggles

This sounds identical to the world we live in. How mysterious.

My What - that's the point!

Are you kidding me. I thought you of all people could tell I was being facetious. No comment.

The bathroom's that way *points*.

Oh, you said FACetious. My mistake :).

How about something simple, like FATE (a 4-letter word!) and the Island of 2nd Chances. There were plenty of dead bodies they had to burn, also up in the 1st class cabin. There are real psychological conditions dealing with survivors of plane crashes/disasters, etc, and they all turn on getting a 2nd chance in life. I think the writers are using that concept, with their own devious twists, to explore how each of these characters deal with that in a setting that is potentially threatening, either naturally, or un-naturally. Plus, group dynamics, personal character issues, and fear of the unknown. Lord of the Flies meet Days of our Lives meet the X-Files. In the words of my last wife, 'ain't that enough...'

...one day older, and closer to death! :lol2:

Hi, new here!! Love this board! :-*

For some reason (I'm not sure if it was this episode...) I thought that Sayid mentioned he was from Iraq. When he was talking about how no one should have survived, explained how the plane broke apart, landed, etc... I just got an image that he was supposed to blow up the plane as a terrorist...

I dunno, just my conspiracy theory, I guess...

Thanks for the board, it's awesome!

Sayid said he was from Tikrit, Iraq (Saddam's home) and was in the Republican Guard as a Communications Officer during Desert Storm. Terrorist is definitely possible (but unlikely, IMHO) but I'm damn sure he wasn't traveling on an Iraqi passport to the U.S. - although he may have ex-patriated to Australia, U.S.,Canada, etc. after the war. His comments didn't reveal any special insight into the crash other than what he could have observed. Somehow I don't think the writers would include that in this show for such a main and, so far, positive character. At least I hope not...

Sayid said he was from Tikrit, Iraq (Saddam's home) and was in the Republican Guard as a Communications Officer during Desert Storm.* Terrorist is definitely possible (but unlikely, IMHO) but I'm damn sure he wasn't traveling on an Iraqi passport to the U.S. - although he may have ex-patriated to Australia, U.S.,Canada, etc. after the war.* His comments didn't reveal any special insight into the crash other than what he could have observed.* Somehow I don't think the writers would include that in this show for such a main and, so far, positive character.* At least I hope not...


not to mention that I don't think the writers would want to step into such a heated cesspool of response from having an Iraqi terrorist character

Actually, Smidge revealed on the board today that it said in TV Guide that he was an interrogator for the military. Not sure if it was the Iraqi military or the US, but I'm sure we'll find out in the coming weeks.

First let me ask this please. What does IMHO mean please?

Second question. If a person were to be in the republican guard as Sayid said he was, does this mean he is considered a terrorist?

By the way, I highly doubt JJ would put a character in the show who was suppose to have been a terrorist. If Sayid was to blow up the plane, would he not have down this on US soil? Or maybe the intended target was on the plane and the intended target is still alive as one of the terrorist. Good thought but once again I doubt it.

First let me ask this please. What does IMHO mean please?


IMHO = in my humble opinion

IMHO, zia319 is nice for writting to me what this meant. By the way, I just went and watched the part where Sayid was hit by an object and this object was clearly a stick of sorts. More like a walking stick.

Second question. If a person were* to be in the republican guard as Sayid said he was, does this mean he is considered a terrorist?

quote]

No, he wouldn't be necessarily be considered a 'terrorist' but he would on a 'watch list' since the Republican Guard were Saddam's elite forces and Baathist party members. More importantly, he couldn't get a visa to the U.S. on an Iraqi passport because we didn't have diplomatic relations with Iraq and without an embassy you can't get a visa - the country you are entering has to issue the visa. For him to be going to LA, he had to have a valid visa, tourist or otherwise which means he had a passport from a country other than Iraq. The Canada border is the only exception and only for Canadian citizens.
The only plausible 'terrorist' scenario would be for him to have a forged passport, and since he showed no reluctance in saying he was from Tikrit and in the Republican Guard, I think he has ex-patriated after the war, maybe even to the U.S. as an intelligence asset.

Hope that helps...

Explained exactly what I wanted to know. Besides just wanting to know for factual reason I did have a point to this and I hope I remember the idea soon.

Has anyone thought about a St. Elsewhere scenario . . .?* I mean we are all
talking about these different theories:* purgatory,* they are dead, it is all in
the writer(s) head(s) ( IE. a St. Elsewhere scenario variant ).

I think he has ex-patriated after the war, maybe even to the U.S. as an intelligence asset.


I also got the feeling that although Sayid is Iraqi, he hasn't been living there recently. It's been over a decade since the end of the Gulf War, so he could have been anywhere (including the US) during the last ten years.

I also SERIOUSLY doubt the idea that Sayid could have been a terrorist. It doesn't work in terms of his character and JJ & Co would never make the only Arab cast member a terrorist. It is an insulting stereotype that they addressed in the pilot.

As for the actual topic, Sayid's words about surviving, I think this is just the beginning of the survivors questioning their "blind, dumb luck." As they delve deeper into why these 47 survived, they we find that they lived because they were meant to, for whatever reason. I think they are all connected and brought to the island for a purpose. IMHO the "thing" killed the pilot only because he wasn't supposed to survive the crash and he was not connected to the main group.

IMHO the "thing" killed the pilot only because he wasn't supposed to survive the crash and he was not connected to the main group.


So kind of like a "Final Destination" type deal. Death was planed for the Pilot but something or person intervined so the island and or "thing" just decided to aper and kill him. Maybe, just maybe, The other times the audience saw the trees moving in the jungle, The island and or thing was killing other survivors from the other parts of the plane and or the plane we have all come to know as the fuselage. So the girl who drowned was probably suppose to die as well so something or the island decided to ask death to come along and take her too.

On another note. I have found no ties to this movie except the fact the characters in this movie were survivors from a plane crash in which not a single person should have survived. The name of the movie is called Fearless and starts Jeff Bridges. If you have never seen this movie, I highly recommend Fearless. Some information about the movie here at IMDB.com

http://imdb.com/title/tt0106881/

I think what katejones was trying to say was that the pilot isn't in the main group of characters. I think there are only 16 real characters in this(see my vip question). Anything that the others do or anything that happens to them is just filler or to get a reaction out of them. I don't think any of them are going to die, just have hardships to go through.

I liked Final Destination. The first one, anyway. ;) The music on Lost occasionally reminds me of the score from FD, but I'll have to see FD again to make sure I'm not just imagining it because they're both plane crash-based.

Count me in to the "they aren't dead, but they survived for a reason" camp. The question is... were they all designated survivors or did they all do something that made them survive in spite of the circumstances? Maybe they all touched the "lucky stone" on their way into the terminal. ;)

I loved Fearless and both Final destinations. They were all entertaining movies.

Someone suggested at another board once, that this is all a hypnotic group therapy thing. There are only 16 people in the therapy session and as part of the treatment, they are all swept away to the island to conquer what ails them. The monster in the bushes is really just their own demons that they battle each day. It's an interesting premise but I don't want to believe it. It's always in the back of my mind though whenever I am reading these threads.

Toast, I wouldn't count on that..I think any of the main 16 could get killed off just as easily as any of the filler group in the background. In fact, I think its already been hinted around here that it might just happen. :)

I've seen it hinted at as well. I just haven't seen it for sure from anyone involved with the show.* All I see from the m is we did? or will we? or maybe?? I don't put much faith in what they say here. It wouldn't be in their best interests to give away the show to us.

It might be 'just as easy' if you are talking about pulling a trigger. If the writers were to do this though then they would have to write another story line for another character but that sounds too much like work. Let's face it, writers are lazy by nature, otherwise they would have gotten a real job.* :D

j/k Writers, but you do deserve a few shots from us now and again for all the vague answers you give.* ;)

Mommamia, that smells an awful lot like racism to me. >:(
I am personally offended by your assumption that because someone is Muslim, or Iraqi (or even because someone is Republican guard) they would automatiically be the terrorist who blew up the plane.

Also, if they did that do you know how much legal crap would start hitting the fan? EVERY Muslim anti-defamation type organization int he world would slap them with a suit so fast they'd never be able to keep up.

But as for Sayid's passport, it is possible that that's why he was in Australia. As in he would still havean Iraqui passport, but gone ot the American consulate in Australia to get his visa. Also, even when we dont have relations with a country we keep a presence there very often - we've had one in Cuba all along. And with us trying to rebuild the Iraqui government I'm sure we do have people in their cities capable of giving out American Visas...

As for the actual topic, Sayid's words about surviving, I think this is just the beginning of the survivors questioning their "blind, dumb luck." As they delve deeper into why these 47 survived, they we find that they lived because they were meant to, for whatever reason. I think they are all connected and brought to the island for a purpose. IMHO the "thing" killed the pilot only because he wasn't supposed to survive the crash and he was not connected to the main group.


I'd like to propose a slight variation on katejones theory (whose individual components were each correct):
* *1. *There will be more and more of the 'why did we survive speculation' continuing - that is both a correct psychological reaction for the characters in this situation, i.e. 'survivors guilt', and it give the writers a ton of fun making us think there is something going on besides just 'fate' - that is, some survived, some didn't, no 'plan' involved. *They (the writers) are already getting the fans into the Identity/Final Destination/St. Elsewhere/Matrix, etc. speculation and are probably laughing their butts off all the while thinking of more red-herrings to toss out! *If you're wondering about Locke's paralysis 'miracle', check out my posts in the Character forum - Locke's Wheelchair.
* *2. *Each individual episode is based upon a character's 'story' within the context of this situation they ended up in. *So, it only makes sense (from a story-telling point of view) that there definitely will be inter-connectivity between the characters. *But, it will be limited, and logical (at a later time to us viewers) because the 'real' story is how each person deals with their own internal issues as well as how those issues interact with the other characters. *This is a great concept by itself, and doesn't need to be overly-complicated with unneeded, and credibility-stretching connections. *If this were a mini-series it could make sense, but for an open-ended series the writers would want the freedom to develop new connections without being constrained by an overly-complicated, and pre-determined, self-limiting complex of connections.
* *3. *There is definitely something unusual about this island but it could be something as straight-forward (but sinister) as a secret government lab (probably French, by the way) gone awry. *This provides enough latitude for the characters to have all kinds of 'inexplicable' events occurring around, and to, them to keep us busy for a long time.

So, using the KISS principle, I think the writers have constructed a series with the following components:
* *1. *We have a group of people all subject to 'survivor syndrome' - a bonafide psychological condition, that allow the characters and viewers to form all kinds of different explanations.
* *2. *Each person has his/her own story with dramatic elements that can interest viewers and other characters.
* *3. *Some of the people's stories interconnect simply because they were all in the same place going to the same destination.
* *4. *We have an out-of-the-way island that makes hope of rescue less likely. *This makes group dynamics needed for survival more important.
* *5. *We have unknown elements about the island that generates mystery and threats that the characters must deal with each week.
* *6. *Most importantly, we have a diverse group of survivors with built-in group dynamics that cause conflict

The combination of these simple (by themselves) concepts provides the framework for an endless variety of interesting/interlocking episodes.

Have some fun with that... :lol2:

Ailaaolani, I'm so sorry if I offended you in any way. It was certainly not intended. I was just throwing out a possibility.

I think Sayid's character on the show is a very beautiful human being. Please, accept my deepest apologies if my post seemed racially motivated, whatsoever!

Peace and kindness to all on this wonderful board, Mommamia

Mommamia, that smells an awful lot like racism to me.* >:(
I am personally offended by your assumption that because someone is Muslim, or Iraqi (or even because someone is Republican guard) they would automatically be the terrorist who blew up the plane.

Just because a person on this board comes up with a theory or an idea does not mean the statement is racist or prejudice. Unless a person were to make an out of context statement, no member of this board should assume the statement as racist or prejudice. Just to reiterate my point, Ailaaolani, you have the right to express your opinion in any way shape or form just as Mommamia has hers. Please, do not jump to conclusions about people referencing any racist or prejudice statements unless the statement is out of context. Considering where the character Sayid is from, any member of the board may assume the character would be a terrorist. I do not share this idea though. I believe Sayid is not a terrorist. And one other thing you must understand Ailaaolani, the proud aspect of being an American is, any person is allowed to express themselves in any way shape or form with out representation and while JJ and crew must be a little more careful on how they approach this situation, JJ and crew could easily explore the situation of Sayid being a terrorist without having any law suits at all.

Racism issue:

It's not racism, it's a possibility.. Just like it's a possibility that Sawyer, by the way he acts, is an ex con. If someone says Sayid MIGHT be a terrorist, it's a theory...if they say he HAS to be a terrorist because of his herritage, THAT is racism.

You're right though, if they portrayed him that way they would get in trouble, even though everyone is making blanket statements about "ignorant southern and midwest christians voting for Bush" and no one's getting in trouble for that. I'm not even talking about just stereotyping here, people are spouting serious hate and no one's going to the defense of the Christians.

It's very annoying and unfair..

Speaker: I agree as well, no one is dead till the island kills him or her. Well, in the case of the drowned girl, maybe the water killed her but speculation may say the island had something to do with this.* But if this were purgatory, the three people who have died, the marshal, the drowned girl, and the pilot, went to hell right?



Lets look at this from the Soap Opera point of view. On a Soap Opera, no one is dead until everyone stands around the allegedly dead, The Doctor bends over, takes their pulse, and announces "Shes Dead". The the music rises up, someone claps their hand over their mouth :o and the commercials begin.

How do we know the drowned girl is dead ?

Yes I know this has nothing to do with The Moth, but I'm an anarchist at heart and three other people drowned her first.

Yes I know this has nothing to do with The Moth, but I'm an anarchist at heart and three other people drowned her first.


Hey welcome to the website and happy posting and I am sure we will be arguing soon but first. Will you please explain the "three other people drowned her first" statement. please. please.

I think the most interesting fact about it is that it's the first indication we really have that, at least one person (beyond Locke) on the island is aware that the very fact of their survivial is miraculous. And, I think, there is an edge of fear to that. I think Sayid is really, really, trying to figure out a way that all of this makes sense, because his very conncetion to sanity is becoming in doubt. I think that's part of the reason he's on the beach, the beach is a tenuous connection to that which is known, and knowable.

My "three other people" remark was directed at other replies in this thread that casually stated that she was drowned. She was not drowned, she was dragged out to sea in a rip tide. That is all we saw. People can survive 24 hours or longer floating in warm tropical water.

I have posted on boards where off-topic or non-spoiler tagging can get you SEVERELY CHASTIZED for EVERY slightest infraction. So I was covering myself.

Floating serenely in warm, non-turbulent tropical waters, yes. Getting sucked out in ANY riptide is dangerous and the very word "rip" implies that you aren't just floating there. A few years back, one of my teachers drowned because he was crossing a shallow channel and got caught in the rip and pulled out to sea before anyone knew what had happened.

Granted, the waters weren't tropical, but I doubt it would have made much difference.

I seriously doubt that the girl drowning had anything more significant than a simple warning about the unrealized dangers of island life. Although I did find it interesting that one of the dolls Jack found had also "drowned". ;)

I seriously doubt that the girl drowning had anything more significant than a simple warning about the unrealized dangers of island life. Although I did find it interesting that one of the dolls Jack found had also "drowned". ;)


This is a fantastic finding and observation ShadowMaat. Grats on the notice.

The doll was found drown before the real girl drowned right? I think I will start to look more deeply about the foreshadowing on this show.

doll was found drown before the real girl drowned right? I think I will start to look more deeply about the foreshadowing on this show.

Umm... No. More like the girl drowning foreshadowed the doll. ;) The girl drowned at the beginning to the ep, the doll was found towards the end. But I still thought it was an interesting coincidence. Would have been even funnier if one of the other dolls had been caught in a bush/tree... :)

LOL, thank you for correcting me and yes the doll in the tree would be great.

On surviving the crash, Sayid seemed to speculate that it was more than dumb luck to the crash. He appears to be Muslim (muttered Allah Akbar, or God is great, when lighting the signal flare) though not a fanatically/rigidly observant one (he hasn't been shown trying to find northwest to find Mecca, no has he been shown doing 7x daily prayers as required by Koran, we don't know if he ate any of the wild boar). Perhaps he was wondering about divine interpretation? Kate, as an apparent agnostic, didn't seem to think their survival was providential.

does divine interpretation have the same meaning as divine intervention? And if so, this is the theory of God stepping in and saving a person correct? Would God save an agnostic?

Questions

First re "she was dragged out to sea in a rip tide". I've been in the tropics on both sides of the equator. Where I visited they measured tide in inches, not like the tides I saw in Alaska. Do they really get rip tides in an area that looks as tropical as this island?

Second Sayid was looking at the picture of a lady from his wallet. I was under the impression that the Islamic faith had a prohibition against images of that sort. Am I all wet there?

Hope I am not too far off topic with this.

does divine interpretation have the same meaning as divine intervention? And if so, this is the theory of God stepping in and saving a person correct? Would God save an agnostic?


Hiya My What

Ok, I meant intervention. How the heck did I type interpretation instead? Is this some bizarre form of Dyslexia or Alzheimer's creeping in? Sigh.

What I meant was Sayid might believe that this is a God-given opportunity (as some have guessed, second chances for all). Whether or not this is a strict deus ex machina interpretation (yes! I mean interpretation this time!) or merely a belief that all things happen through God's will (Arabic ensh'Allah - various spellings in English) remains to be seen, but I think Sayid is a man of faith.

Would God save an agnostic? Why not? So Kate may or may not believe in God -- God may believe in her.

does divine interpretation have the same meaning as divine intervention? And if so, this is the theory of God stepping in and saving a person correct? Would God save an agnostic?

considering "divine intervention" doesn't necessitate the existence of God (you would have to believe in some force beyond you, but not every belief places that on God), it's entirely possible for an agnostic to believe in divine intervention. And as for God saving an agnostic, I will refer back to Stephen King's words in The Stand, "You don't have to believe in God, he believes in you.", so if he/she wanted to save a person, he would.

Interesting information all. So if God is not the "One" who causes devine intervention, "who" does?

well divine intervention can be lumped in the same category as predetermined existence, both make reference to some force (perhaps god, or nature, fate, ka, destiny) that has determined how you life is to be, and when to step in.* Different religions and peoples believe separate things, and of course, the most accepted belief in the west is God. Does that help?

Questions

Do they really get rip tides in an area that looks as tropical as this island?

Second Sayid was looking at* the picture of a lady from his wallet. I was under the impression that the Islamic faith had a prohibition against images of that sort.


A rip current (the correct term) is an outflow of water from the beach, caused by waves or wind forcing the water to shore. The best method of surviving them is to swim parallel to the beach for 20-50 yards to get out of the current, then swim to shore or (smarter) wait for help. Every summer lifeguards rescue dozens-to-hundreds of people on San Diego's beaches. Per day.

I recall that images of Allah or Mohammed are strictly prohibited. Around 20 years ago they made an Islamically-correct movie about the life of Mohammad. They only showed his shadow on the ground or wall.

If this idea was predetermination then there would have been no divine intervention involved considering what was to happen was going to happen hence no intervention. Maybe we should take this to a chit chat board so to not clutter up this board with non related topic discussion. :)

A rip current (the correct term) Thanks rbrown. I grew up in an area where the ocean was too cold for casual swimming (when we made the day long trip to get there) but your explanation makes perfect sense.


Sayid finally brought up the fact* that they shouldn't have survived the crash (with hardly a scratch).* Is this starting to confirm the idea that the only folks that survived were supposed to (their miracle/redemption)?* Or is it reaffirming some of the suspicions that they didn't really survive?
My response to the original question that started this thread is - Nope. I think it was just the natural statement of someone who knows enough to realize that they had really beaten overwhelming odds in living through that crash. I think making this a show about people in limbo or purgatory or whatever would weaken the story. To play on the other comments made in this thread, it would result in divine enervation for the show.

does divine interpretation have the same meaning as divine intervention? And if so, this is the theory of God stepping in and saving a person correct? Would God save an agnostic?

Sure. God does that all the time. You didn't think the world was still here only because of the 'saved' did you ? The rain falls on the just and the unjust . All things come alike to all people. What people do with what comes to them is what makes the difference apparent.. A long time ago someone explained it to me like this: The same sun that melts butter hardens concrete. So when hardship and loss come into a life what the person does with it, how it affects them, depends on their nature. A tender hearted person becomes more so, more empathetic more compassionate, a hard hearted person finds themselves set in stone.

Of course that has zero to do with Sayid's words on surviving the crash. It also has nothing to do with the living or dead status of the people on the island. Myself, I think they are alive. That they are there because they did indeed survive and they are faced with growth or death.

Yeah back to the topic. This will only become a debate on religion and this is not necessary here so sorry to any person who started taking some offense.

I do not think Sayid, even if he is religious, was not referring to any higher power. Like Fogey wrote, he just thought out loud to Kate and told her all the survivors were just simply lucky. I am pretty sure some person has quoted JJ Abrams on this web site as stating this island is not Purgatory, Heaven, or Hell. However, for this particular topic, this does not mean there was not any higher power influence. I just personally believe this was just the same luck as when some person wins the lottery.

I think he was just reaffirming our doubt of the fact that so many people survived in such a horrible crash. Acknowledging the fact that it probably shouldn't have happened...but it did. (Other than pretending like things like this happen all the time.)

I think he was just reaffirming our doubt of the fact that so many people survived in such a horrible crash.


I can't help but think that it's got to be more than that. The writers have said that there's rhyme and reason to who survived the crash. I don't specifically think that the purgatory theory is what's going on, but it is interesting how all of the characters are getting second chances. The paraplegic walks, the fugitive becomes the law in a sense, the one who "can't" lead becomes the leader, the "useless" druggie saves the day. This all seems really obvious but I think that it definitely ties in to what's going on here.

The purgatory theory somewhat makes sense to me though; perhaps those who died have moved on/solved their problems in life and those who are on island are facing their inner demons. Then again, I doubt that the writers would have brought religion into the main theme of the show. I'm still thinking that it ties into it all somehow though..