I re-watched the first episode and have a question about where Charlie was seated. To me it
looked like he went to the restroom near the cockpit and when it started shaking he came
out and sat down near the front of plane, if he double backed someone please tell.

My other question is if he was seated near the cockpit how did he end up on the beach with
everyone else?

I've been thinking this all day. Charlie was seated at the front.

The question then is, if he was at the front of the plane....is he really Charlie......

I posted a theory that the pilot was one of the others and gave Jack and Kate misleading info, before "leaving" by way of a "monster" we never saw.

I think Charlie, went with them to make sure that they got there. And I think that the sounds from the original monster where metallic, and was in fact the "others" placing the cockpit there.

If you notice, Charlie is always around when something happens. Nobody suspects Chaz but I think the little bugger is evil.

And I think that the sounds from the original monster where metallic, and was in fact the "others" placing the cockpit there.


I noticed in the Pilot last night..Jack and Kate were sitting by the fire talking about how the back end went first, followed by the front..and how neither was on the beach. Jack then said they needed to find the cockpit and then Kate said she saw smoke right past the valley. Right after she said that is when we first hear the sound of the monster. Sounds just like at the beginning, when parts of the plane were falling apart. Like you said, metallic. I think your theory about the "others" placing the cockit pit theory could hold up. Jack and Kate talking about the cockpit, then immediately the monster shows and sounds as if the plane is breaking apart again..which could mean that the cockpit is actually being moved into the jungle. Hmm..

But moving the cockpit *from* where? And why would the others go through all of that trouble?

ok - I tivo'd the pilot so I could rewatch for just these reasons! I thought Charlie ran from the back of the plane to the front - tossed the drugs in the bathroom near the cockpit, then "boom!!!!" and he tumbled out of the bathroom and backwards down the plane - then buckled in - in front of where he was originally, but behind first class - more like where Shannon and Boone were.

But I'll double check tonight. ;)

Raven

I've been thinking this all day.* Charlie was seated at the front.*

The question then is, if he was at the front of the plane....is he really Charlie......

I posted a theory that the pilot was one of the others and gave Jack and Kate misleading info, before "leaving" by way of a "monster" we never saw.

I think Charlie, went with them to make sure that they got there.* And I think that the sounds from the original monster where metallic, and was in fact the "others" placing the cockpit there.*

If you notice, Charlie is always around when something happens.* Nobody suspects Chaz but I think the little bugger is evil.



If that's true..and charlie is evil...why did they hang him?

If I'm wrong, and he's good, why didn't they REALLY kill him. Why go to all the trouble to hand him up? Why not just bash his head in. Chaz is just a lil'fella, ethan...if it was ethan...could snap him like a twig. And maybe he was faking dead....or maybe..................he's been dead all along, and that his bodies been infected with the sickness. A Dawn of the Dead meets Bodysnatchers meets The Stand.

HMM?? Chaz has been around ALL the commotions. Maybe, he's the one who knocked out Sayid. Maybe, he led Jack and Kate to the cockpit. Maybe he led them to the bear. Maybe brought Clair to the caves so that HE could get at her. Maybe he's the "friend" too look out for. He sure got over heroin in a hurry. Thats the shortest detox I've EVER seen.

OR maybe......it's all in Charlies mind.


anyone seen the finale to St Elsewhere???

LOL

hey, I noticed the same thing last nite. He starts to rush back and then he sits in one of the first class seats. I guess you could think he got up and started moving to the back and they just didn't show it....or maybe it was an editing oversight....

HMM?? Chaz has been around ALL the commotions.* Maybe, he's the one who knocked out Sayid.* Maybe, he led Jack and Kate to the cockpit.* Maybe he led them to the bear.* Maybe brought Clair to the caves so that HE could get at her.* Maybe he's the "friend" too look out for.* He sure got over heroin in a hurry.* Thats the shortest detox I've EVER seen.*




I don't know about the rest of that, but he couldn't have been the one to knock Sayid, as he was at the caves at the time, wasn't he?

ahh *covers ears* I don't want Charlie to be evil!!! He's sweet Charlie... :o

^ I'd actually be very happy to see Dom Monaghan play a really evil and mean character after how adorable he was in LOTR.

But in response to Charlie being an evil bugger faking dead/speading sickness...etc. Why would he be so upset about Claire being taken then? He can't be on 'their' side...

No no no no no!!! Charlie isn't evil! He's just not. I have nothing more intelligent to say on the subject, however. ;)

I discussed this with my friend and she said thay might ahve hung him becuase he was getting too close to them. You know that could be it but there are a whole bunch of theroies.


^ I'd actually be very happy to see Dom Monaghan play a really evil and mean character after how adorable he was in LOTR.

But in response to Charlie being an evil bugger faking dead/speading sickness...etc. Why would he be so upset about Claire being taken then? He can't be on 'their' side...


As for charlie being upset about claire....we don't know if he was upset abotu claire or if he is going through a trama of being dead.

I don't want Charlie to be evil but with these sneaky writers it could be someone we least expect. So don't cross anyone off the list yet/

Okay...those true Dom fans out there know that he wants to play a really bad guy. In a recent movie he made he was a really good guy...fighting for the good side, then he double crossed at the end to the shock of all.
This could be the case yet again.

I too thought he was in the front of the plane. If you notice...he was super sweet to Claire and protected her...so we think. Maybe he was protecting her because he wanted a shot at her baby? These "others" are kid snatchers. Alex, Claire's baby... and maybe eventually Walt?
Not sure if Charlie's dead, but he is not right. He did get over his detox really fast....expecially to have been a junkie as long as he was....I'm assuming it was several years...his brother's daughter was alteast 2 or 3 right? And they talked about he missed her birth cuz they were trying to score...so taht means Charlie was likely into it deep already.
Anyways... He was a serious junkie.

I think that Charlie wasn't on the beach when the plane crashed. We saw him yes...when Jack had come running out of the jungle...he was wandering around in a daze. We never saw where he woke up or what happened to him.
They did show Locke waking up. I think he's a bad guy too...when he faced "the monster" he came back changed. I think he was killed and the island took him over....just like what happened to Charlie.

I mean...Charlie "died". he came back so dramatically...not like he was waking up....but like he was inhabited by some painful thing. Then he was in a daze. he looked more disappointed that he lost Claire than that she was captured...and not lost her in like...I failed, but lost her in like...that SOB took my money and beat me up. Ya know?

Maybe I'm just not seeing everything....but he is always there when something happens...and he is certainly not suspected... but then again....with the rehab thing....the island does have weird healing powers. So...maybe that's the explanation for that. :)

There is no proof that Locke is evil, he has done nothing to threaten the camp or the people in it. Granted he gave Sayid the knife, but the ends justified the means. Look at the pair now. They have both faced their demons and come out sorta shiney.

IMHO Locke has to do something much more detremental to the group before I consider him to be a threat.

Locke is a unique indiviual in that he's lived part of his life being underfoot so to speak.

He has had to rely on others to get him around, but all he wants to do now is help people that never helped him. I'm not saying the people in the camp treated him unfairly, I'm talking about his life before the crash.

Locke is special in that even though he's been treated poorly, he is still a giving man. Kind, intelligent a listener and everything else you can throw at him that's nice. He doesn't have to go out and hunt boar for everyone. Locke is living his dream, he wanted to be at one with the land and that's what he has done.

Locke may have seen the 'thing' that was out there, but only he knows what it was. It ate the boar, but not Locke, something happened. But he had the look of awe, beauty on his face.

Even though Javi has said Charlie was sitting in the mid-section, I'm sure he does not. I shall review the episode and see.

Charlie was in coach. His drug addiction saved his life.

There were three sections on the plane: first class, in front near the cockpit, business class where Jack, Rose, Locke, Kate and the now-defunct Marshall (and presumably everyone else) were sitting, and coach in the back. Charlie was sitting in coach, but he went to the bathroom and strapped himself into an empty seat in business class when chaos ensued and the plane fell apart. That's how he survived.

As far as I can tell Charlie was in the same section as Locke, Rose, and Jack.

He gets out of his seat and passes Locke in his seat. Therefore we can say that he is sitting in the same section as the others.

Now watching the episode again, it does look like Charlie made it mid section, but it was cut in such a way that it looks like he's sitting in the front.

If you look before he gets into his seat he passes a curtain. There are about 2 curtains per-section, to me it looks like Charlie managed to make his way past 2 sets of curtains, since we can peek down the aisle and see another set at the end.

So it is possible that he made it to the mid-section, but not necessarily his seat.

To me it looks like Charlie, Locke, Rose and Jack were in coach.

You can tell by the seats. With each upgrade the seats get better.

Alright, after thinking about it, maybe it would be interesting to see Charlie become evil. No one would expect it...

Alright, after thinking about it, maybe it would be interesting to see Charlie become evil. No one would expect it...


If by "no one" you mean everyone who's read this thread, plus a bunch of other theorizers out there ;D

I mean the audience who haven't come up with all of these interesting theories or who haven't read the posts here. :)

I know. I was just kidding. ;D

Charlie could be evil but I don't think he is but...what if Kate was evil? I mean she tried to stop Jack from saving Charlie. *Tyrs to dodge fruit* hey it was jsut a theroy

people I think are dead...or "possesed"

1. Charlie.
2. Locke
3. Ethan


When Claire gets kidnapped...NONE of them help her. In fact all of them help the "others" if that's who took Claire.

1. Charlie helped Ethan take Claire, he must have...or the hobbit is the weakest excuse for a man ever, who got himself and a pregnant woman kidnapped by 1 person in the middle of the jungle with no weapons.

2. Ethan. Kinda obvious that he's not really a team player.

3. Locke. He didn't want Boone to go. He tried to talk him out of it. Why? He wanted to go with Jack alone so he could whack him, then Boone came along, so now they have a big group. Then they split up and a Doctor and a convict find Chaz....

yet "The Hunter" finds nothing. Except for a steel door that he threw a flashlight at. I wonder if Locke knew it was there. And if he did, I wonder if Boone becomes a pawn of Locke? I'll have to see on the spoiler board if thats true :o

My take on this whole thread is this:

Cleary, the seat Charlie buckled himself into after his bathroom break was in the forward section of the plane. (near the cockpit)

He should not have been with the rest of the surviovors if he had been in the seat.

This was just a continunity or editing mistake and doesn't support the theory that Charlie is evil.

Cleary, the seat Charlie buckled himself into after his bathroom break was in the forward section of the plane. (near the cockpit)

He should not have been with the rest of the surviovors if he had been in the seat.


No, no, that's not what happened. There are 3 sections to the plane. There's the coach section in the tail end, which broke off and has no survivors. THAT is where Charlie was sitting.

There's business class, which is the middle part of the plane, which is where all our people were sitting.

There's also first class, up front, near the cockpit, where there were also no survivors according to the pilot episode, except the pilot himself, who is now canon fodder up in a tree.

This is what happened:

Charlie went to use the bathroom to do drugs at the bathroom in between coach and business class. However, as we learned in the pilot episode, Rose's husband was using the bathroom at the time of the crash when the tail end of the plane broke off. This is why he did not survive. We see in the pilot that Charlie then RUSHES through the aisle to use the bathroom between first and business class, where he does his drugs, and then tries to escape the stewardesses by climbing over a bunch of passengers, including Shannon and Boone. Shannon and Boone were supposed to have been in first class but got their seats bumped for whatever reason to business class.

Then the turbulence hit, so Charlie strapped himself in to the nearest business class empty seat, toward the back. THAT is why he survived - he was supposed to have been in the tail section, but because of his addiction, he was in business class at the time of the crash. It was clearly not premeditated.

Here's a visual of the plane where everyone was seated, more or less (I don't know how many rows there are in each section)

[COACH]
X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X
X X X X X ChX <-- Charlie's original seat
X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X

[bathroom that Mr. Rose was using]

[BUSINESS]
X X X X X X X
X X X X Ch X X <-- Charlie's new seat, random empty seat
X X X X X X X
KM X X X X X (Kate, Marshall)
X X X X X X X
X X X X R J X (Jack and Rose)
X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X
X X X X X X X

[bathroom that Charlie used]

[ FIRST CLASS AND COCKPIT]

This is approximate but hopefully this gives you a visual about why Charlie survived and what happened to him during the crash.

He might be evil NOW, don't get me wrong, depending on what happened to him with Ethan, but he wasn't at the time of the crash or before the events of "Raised By Another."

no no no...

that's not what happened. Charlie was jonesing hard and the stewardess noticed it. She went to the back of the plane and was talking it over with the two male flight attendants. Chaz got scared and started towards the front. Getting locked out of the first bathroom, he pushed his way past Jack and Rose and then through the curtain to first class. We know this b/c of the nicer seats and the bar at the front. He goes into that bathroom. The same bathroom he came out of in Pilot #2 when he shocked Kate. The he does his drugs and goes to flush them so that the stewards don't catch him. Then turbulance and he then grabs his stash and falls out of the door into the aisleway. He rolls to the left to avoid the cart and then gets up and sits three or four seats down from where he was, in the blue leather first class seats. So it actually looks like this.



XXXXXXXX Econ Bathrooms

XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX Coach
XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX Bathrooms

XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXRXJ Rose and Jack
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXBC Boone and Claire???

XXXXXXXX Curtain

XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXC Chaz
XXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX Bathroom

XXXXXXXX Cockpit

I think you guys are a little off on the seat assignments.* Here's what I remember (please correct me if I'm wrong):

Coach seat numbering:

* * back of plane
J-I-H* G-F-E-D* C-B-A
* * front of plane

From Charlie's flasback in the second part of the pilot (01x02), we first see that Charlie is sitting in seat C in the next to last row of a coach cabin (3-4-3 seat pattern).* He looks over his shoulder, and he sees that there is another coach cabin behind him.* He starts walking toward the front of the plane and goes by 4 or 5 rows until he passes by Jack (who seems to be in the second row of that coach cabin).* Charlie then continues into another coach cabin.* Then, he enters a business class cabin (2-3-2 seat pattern).* In the second-to-last row of seats (where Boone and Shannon are sitting in seats D and E), Charlie crosses over to the opposite aisle.* *

In Episode (01x04), Jack reminds Rose that he had been sitting in seat 23A.

From Kate's episode, we see that she is sitting in seat I in coach.* Next to her, in seat H, is the Marshall.* We also see that the back of her coach cabin broke off with the tail section.

In several of Jack's flashbacks, we see him move from seat A in coach to seat C so that he can talk to Rose, who is sitting in seat D of the same row (i.e, 23D).* We see that sitting behind Rose is Locke (i.e., 24D).* We see Charlie run by Jack.* And we also see that he was in the cabin that the tail of the plane separated from.* I believe that if you watch Kate's and Jack's flashbacks carefully, you see that they both show the same guy hit his head on the ceiling before the tail breaks off.

The fact that Boone and Shannon are in Business Class and not First Class is confirmed in one episode where Shannon states that they had to sit in business class because another passenger wouldn't let them have their seats in First Class.* She said that was why they survived.

Thus, the layout is something like this:

[unknown number of rows further back]
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X

X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *C X X* * * * * * Charlie
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X K M* * X X X X* * *X X X* * * * * * Kate, Marshall (~Row 25)
X X X* * *X X X L* * *X X X* * * * * * Locke (Row 24)
X X X* * *X X X R* * *X X J* * * * * * Rose, Jack (Row 23)
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X

X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X* * * * * *
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X* * * * * *
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X* * * * * *
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X* * * * * *
X X X* * *X X X X* * *X X X

X* *X* * * X* *X* *X* * * X* *X
X* *X* * * S* *B* *X* * * X* *X* * * * *Shannon, Boone
X* *X* * * X* *X* *X* * * X* *X
X* *X* * * X* *X* *X* * * X* *X
[several more rows]

[First Class]

She went to the back of the plane and was talking it over with the two male flight attendants. Chaz got scared and started towards the front. Getting locked out of the first bathroom, he pushed his way past Jack and Rose and then through the curtain to first class. We know this b/c of the nicer seats and the bar at the front.

Er. That's pretty much exactly what I said. The stewardess went to the back of the plane - in coach. Then Charlie got scared and started toward the front. i.e., the bathroom between coach and business class, where Rose's husband was. Then he pushed his way past Jack and Rose to the bathroom in the front of business class/ back of first class. Then he went back through business class and at one point climbed over Shannon and Boone. He was near the back of business class when the crash. I just rewatched the scene to make sure.

It really doesn't matter where exactly he was sitting at this point. The point is, he should've been in coach and died, but wasn't because of a) the drug addiction and b) Rose's husband.

In one of the episodes (I don't remember what episode) It was said the no one should have survived the crash. I think that it was the island that saved them. I also think that when Kate and Jack found Charlie the where too late. He was dead, but once again the island saved him. He gave up his drug addiction like Locke gabe up his wheelchair. Locke was saved from the beast like Charlie was saved after being hung.

Not that it really matters since we're talking about Charlie, but I thought Kate and the Marshall were in the middle seats?

Reference is given on the 'driveshaft' website in the news section that "According to the passenger list, Charlie Pace was sitting in seat 68G". I have been unable to find a seating configuration at 'seatguru.com' that has 68 rows, but needless to say he is near the back initially.

Seat G only appears in configurations as an aisle seat for the centre 4 seats on the right hand side when facing forward.

Go back and look at the flashback scene from Tabula Rasa. I think it clearly shows that they were not in the middle seats.




Not that it really matters since we're talking about Charlie, but I thought Kate and the Marshall were in the middle seats?

Does anyone know if the DriveSHAFT website is actually affiliated with the show? The site states that it is not affiliated with Bad Robot.

However, If the website is accurate, then there is a major continuity problem, because how could Charlie then pass by Jack (who was sitting on the left side of the plane in seats A and C)?



Reference is given on the 'driveshaft' website in the news section that "According to the passenger list, Charlie Pace was sitting in seat 68G".* I have been unable to find a seating configuration at 'seatguru.com' that has 68 rows, but needless to say he is near the back initially.

Seat G only appears in configurations as an aisle seat for the centre 4 seats on the right hand side when facing forward.

Does anyone know if the DriveSHAFT website is actually affiliated with the show?
It definitely is not affiliated with the show in any way, shape or form. It's run by a really really nice and enthusiastic group of fans though!