max2342
09-23-2005, 01:58 PM
I have seen a post about the island being a Bernal sphere here and on other boards. I don't necessarily think that's wrong, but I have a similar option to propose that I think works better. (the other thread is http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=19259 ) I will post the definition that gutsdozer posted to explain what a bernal sphere is. There is a link below that explains what an O'Neill cylinder is (basically the same thing, but a cylinder rather than a sphere).
A Bernal sphere is a type of space habitat intended as a long-term home for permanent residents, first proposed in 1929 by Dr. John Desmond Bernal.
Dr. Bernal's original proposal described a hollow spherical shell 16 km in diameter, with a target population of 20,000 to 30,000 people. The Bernal sphere would be filled with air.
In a series of studies held at Stanford University in 1975 and 1976 with the purpose of speculating on designs for future space colonies, Dr. Gerard Kitchen O'Neill proposed a modified Bernal sphere with a diameter of only 500 m rotating at 1.9 RPM to produce a full Earth gravity at the sphere's equator. The result would be an interior landscape that would resemble a large valley running all the way around the equator of the sphere. Sunlight was to be provided to the interior of the sphere using external mirrors to direct it in through large windows near the poles. The form of a sphere was chosen for its optimum ability to contain air pressure and its optimum mass-efficiency at providing radiation shielding.
This version of the Bernal sphere was dubbed the "Island One" design, and was sized for a population of 10,000. For comparison, Island Two would house 140,000, and Island Three (O'Neill cylinder) would support a population of 10,000,000.
Given a large enough sphere, say 400km in inside diameter, the atmosphere (directly upwards) would be thick enough to mask the other side and appear the same as normal earth atmosphere, but the horizon would still be visible sweeping up at the sides. However, the sun would be impossible to replicate without some kind of imaging technology. Presumably the same imaging technology could be used to replicate the stars, and mask the horizon and the sky allowing for a smaller sphere, and you could assume that the imaging technology would be able to account for the different viewing perspectives of people separated by miles on the island, and the vantage point afforded by the high mountains. You could also assume that it could either produce enough energy to sustain a water cycle or mask the delivery system, as well as cause things like sunburn. (A lot of assumptions.)
Assuming that the island is 3 or 4 miles wide at its widest point, the sphere might have to be as much as 25 miles in diameter in order to minimize the gravity changes across the island. The island configuration then wouldn't make much sense, because in a sphere rotating along a single axis, gravitational force would be only in the direction perpendicular to that axis, drawing all the water to the "bottom," either inundating the island or necessitating an even larger sphere to allow the island to be built above water level and still have the correct gravity.
Granted, none of this rules out the possibility of it being a sphere, but if it is a sphere, then the only reason the inhabitants can't tell is because someone is putting in a lot of effort to hide it, and in that case, they would save an enormous amount of effort and complication by just making it a cylinder with the island at the midpoint (constant gravity the length of the cylinder, no pooling, you only have the horizon effect on one axis). Gerard O'Neill proposed the O'Neill cylinder in 1969 (coincidentally, the same year the song came out that Desmond was playing; O'Neill also graduated from college when he was 23, and invented the Cylinder when he was 42).
If the weather is controlled, then producing it over such a large area would require a massive energy distribution as well as noticeable precursors (rise in humidity, etc) that maybe someone who is "in tune with the island" like Locke would be able to sense. (Can you tell when your car is about to shift gears?) If the rain is scheduled, it is randomized enough that the people with watches can't tell. On the other hand, an O'Neill cylinder can be built large enough to have weather of its own to a certain extent.
As for the magnet, a magnet in itself is not a power source. Magnets are used in electric generators, but only when put in motion by another energy source (heat, combustion, steam, water, wind, etc.). If the magnet is being used to supply power, it is only for limited use, such as power backup for control systems. Why waste the time building the huge number of generators that would be needed to sustain the island as well as storing all the fuel to run the generators, when you have several hundred square miles of exterior surface exposed to solar radiation? Solar panels would be much more efficient and don't require magnets. The environment being a cylinder would also provide much more surface area, and allow the maximum amount of that surface area to be consistently oriented toward the sun.
On the other hand, the particle storage ring also invented by O'Neill uses large magnets to direct particles along a path for study and generates X-ray radiation. The ring has various monitoring stations along its length, filled with monitoring equipment for various experiments, and lined with lead to block radiation (CR from the vial = counter-radiation?). This would make Desmond a scientist, and gives interesting meaning to his physical preparations (being underground would put him at a slightly heavier gravity) and his "race around the world." The hydrostatic leveling systems used to align the rings are known to be affected by the gravity of the sun, moon, and earth, and for a very high precision experiment, the system might work better in a predictable gravity environment. That last sentence is just my rampant speculation of course, I don't know much about particle physics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder)
http://carnegieinstitution.org/spectra_fall_2002/SPECTRA_FALL.200208.html (http://carnegieinstitution.org/spectra_fall_2002/SPECTRA_FALL.200208.html)
A huge facility like an O'Neill cylinder would have to be constructed over the course of many years, which would explain the outdated fixtures combined with the modern supplies (laundry detergent and non-essential appliances would probably be loaded last, whereas complex monitoring and control equipment would probably be installed early on, as would plumbing and other fixtures). In an environment unlikely to receive a major resupply or be renovated often, lower technology like the WWII era plumbing and electrical would be less likely to break down and easier to repair when it does (you can't fix a microchip with a welding torch). The "quarantine" looks stenciled on rather crookedly, possibly done after by the inhabitants of the hatch (I think there was originally more than one, if for no other reason than that there are two bunks) when something went wrong and contaminated the interior of the cylinder (outside the hatch). The Others have access to supplies and equipment, they could be some of the scientists breaking quarantine. Radiation and particle physics experiments could have unknown effects (The "disease"? Locke's recovery? The particulate creature that comes up out of the ground?).
The numbers introduce an element that is either mystical or highly artificial. Which of those it is will answer a lot of questions, which is why I think the writers/producers say that the numbers are key.
I am not necessarily saying that the island is inside an O'Neill cylinder, but it's an interesting option, that might fit some of the facts.
A Bernal sphere is a type of space habitat intended as a long-term home for permanent residents, first proposed in 1929 by Dr. John Desmond Bernal.
Dr. Bernal's original proposal described a hollow spherical shell 16 km in diameter, with a target population of 20,000 to 30,000 people. The Bernal sphere would be filled with air.
In a series of studies held at Stanford University in 1975 and 1976 with the purpose of speculating on designs for future space colonies, Dr. Gerard Kitchen O'Neill proposed a modified Bernal sphere with a diameter of only 500 m rotating at 1.9 RPM to produce a full Earth gravity at the sphere's equator. The result would be an interior landscape that would resemble a large valley running all the way around the equator of the sphere. Sunlight was to be provided to the interior of the sphere using external mirrors to direct it in through large windows near the poles. The form of a sphere was chosen for its optimum ability to contain air pressure and its optimum mass-efficiency at providing radiation shielding.
This version of the Bernal sphere was dubbed the "Island One" design, and was sized for a population of 10,000. For comparison, Island Two would house 140,000, and Island Three (O'Neill cylinder) would support a population of 10,000,000.
Given a large enough sphere, say 400km in inside diameter, the atmosphere (directly upwards) would be thick enough to mask the other side and appear the same as normal earth atmosphere, but the horizon would still be visible sweeping up at the sides. However, the sun would be impossible to replicate without some kind of imaging technology. Presumably the same imaging technology could be used to replicate the stars, and mask the horizon and the sky allowing for a smaller sphere, and you could assume that the imaging technology would be able to account for the different viewing perspectives of people separated by miles on the island, and the vantage point afforded by the high mountains. You could also assume that it could either produce enough energy to sustain a water cycle or mask the delivery system, as well as cause things like sunburn. (A lot of assumptions.)
Assuming that the island is 3 or 4 miles wide at its widest point, the sphere might have to be as much as 25 miles in diameter in order to minimize the gravity changes across the island. The island configuration then wouldn't make much sense, because in a sphere rotating along a single axis, gravitational force would be only in the direction perpendicular to that axis, drawing all the water to the "bottom," either inundating the island or necessitating an even larger sphere to allow the island to be built above water level and still have the correct gravity.
Granted, none of this rules out the possibility of it being a sphere, but if it is a sphere, then the only reason the inhabitants can't tell is because someone is putting in a lot of effort to hide it, and in that case, they would save an enormous amount of effort and complication by just making it a cylinder with the island at the midpoint (constant gravity the length of the cylinder, no pooling, you only have the horizon effect on one axis). Gerard O'Neill proposed the O'Neill cylinder in 1969 (coincidentally, the same year the song came out that Desmond was playing; O'Neill also graduated from college when he was 23, and invented the Cylinder when he was 42).
If the weather is controlled, then producing it over such a large area would require a massive energy distribution as well as noticeable precursors (rise in humidity, etc) that maybe someone who is "in tune with the island" like Locke would be able to sense. (Can you tell when your car is about to shift gears?) If the rain is scheduled, it is randomized enough that the people with watches can't tell. On the other hand, an O'Neill cylinder can be built large enough to have weather of its own to a certain extent.
As for the magnet, a magnet in itself is not a power source. Magnets are used in electric generators, but only when put in motion by another energy source (heat, combustion, steam, water, wind, etc.). If the magnet is being used to supply power, it is only for limited use, such as power backup for control systems. Why waste the time building the huge number of generators that would be needed to sustain the island as well as storing all the fuel to run the generators, when you have several hundred square miles of exterior surface exposed to solar radiation? Solar panels would be much more efficient and don't require magnets. The environment being a cylinder would also provide much more surface area, and allow the maximum amount of that surface area to be consistently oriented toward the sun.
On the other hand, the particle storage ring also invented by O'Neill uses large magnets to direct particles along a path for study and generates X-ray radiation. The ring has various monitoring stations along its length, filled with monitoring equipment for various experiments, and lined with lead to block radiation (CR from the vial = counter-radiation?). This would make Desmond a scientist, and gives interesting meaning to his physical preparations (being underground would put him at a slightly heavier gravity) and his "race around the world." The hydrostatic leveling systems used to align the rings are known to be affected by the gravity of the sun, moon, and earth, and for a very high precision experiment, the system might work better in a predictable gravity environment. That last sentence is just my rampant speculation of course, I don't know much about particle physics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder)
http://carnegieinstitution.org/spectra_fall_2002/SPECTRA_FALL.200208.html (http://carnegieinstitution.org/spectra_fall_2002/SPECTRA_FALL.200208.html)
A huge facility like an O'Neill cylinder would have to be constructed over the course of many years, which would explain the outdated fixtures combined with the modern supplies (laundry detergent and non-essential appliances would probably be loaded last, whereas complex monitoring and control equipment would probably be installed early on, as would plumbing and other fixtures). In an environment unlikely to receive a major resupply or be renovated often, lower technology like the WWII era plumbing and electrical would be less likely to break down and easier to repair when it does (you can't fix a microchip with a welding torch). The "quarantine" looks stenciled on rather crookedly, possibly done after by the inhabitants of the hatch (I think there was originally more than one, if for no other reason than that there are two bunks) when something went wrong and contaminated the interior of the cylinder (outside the hatch). The Others have access to supplies and equipment, they could be some of the scientists breaking quarantine. Radiation and particle physics experiments could have unknown effects (The "disease"? Locke's recovery? The particulate creature that comes up out of the ground?).
The numbers introduce an element that is either mystical or highly artificial. Which of those it is will answer a lot of questions, which is why I think the writers/producers say that the numbers are key.
I am not necessarily saying that the island is inside an O'Neill cylinder, but it's an interesting option, that might fit some of the facts.