Of the main characters, Michael is one of the least explored characters in the show. Did we miss clues/hints about Michael's past?

Michael Dawson
Residence: New York City
Mother: alive Father: Walter/status unknown
Work experience: artist, construction (How he got from one to the other is a long story.)
Inspiration: Flatiron Building, tracing pictures in comic books
Marital status: unknown/did not marry Walt's mother
Friends/acquaintances mentioned: Andy, who might be able to throw some construction work his way.
Unexplained skills/knowledge: We learn in Adrift that Michael knows how to handle a handgun. We learn in Collision that he knows how to handle a shotgun.

Characteristics:
Young Michael seems to have a happy-go-lucky attitude. Perhaps he is a bit too lighthearted for Susan, who seems to be more practical. (baby bed shopping scene) He wears an earring before Walt is born, but we haven't seen it since. From the beginning he is a doting father, seen playing with Walt on the floor of his apartment. Sometime before he turns two, Walt's mother takes him to Amsterdam to live. (Walt sits unsupported with ease but has not spoken his first word. He's probably 8 to 10 mos old.) Michael argues against the idea. Susan states that they had talked about taking some time apart. A lot has happened to them in a short period of time. Michael states that Susan wanted to live on a boat. (Did Susan change when she got pregnant?) At 21 mos. Michael calls to talk to Walt. He is angry and upset to learn that Susan is seeing Brian Porter, her boss. He says he is coming to Amsterdam to get Walt, but is hit by a car before it can happen. After more than two mos. in the hospital, Susan shows up asking him to sign away his parental rights. When Michael objects, Susan tells him he should consider whether he is fighting for Walt or for himself. Michael signs. Eight years later Brian Porter shows up to tell Michael that Susan is dead and to give Walt back to him. Michael's first concern is that Walt was left at home with a nanny so soon after his mother's death. Michael sees through Brian's attempt to portray his attempt to unload Walt as something Susan wanted. When Porter says that Walt is different, Michael becomes enraged. Michael accepts the plane tickets and travelling money from Porter. Once he arrives at Porter's house he tries to make Walt believe that Porter really wants him, but that he has legal custody. He also tells Walt that Porter said he could have Vincent. Michael has difficulty connecting with Walt after such a long separation.

Timeline inconsistencies:
We know from Special that Walt was about 24 *21 months old when Michael was hit by the car. Also, we learn that Walt is 10 years old at the time of the crash. In Adrift we learn that Michael hasn't seen Walt for 14 months. We know from the screencap in Adrift that Michael saw an attorney prior to 2001 about stopping Susan from moving to Rome. The WTC could be seen in the NY skyline. We know that Michael hasn't been Walt's "father" for 9 years. From IT, we know that Walt's birthday is Aug. 24. Michael was wearing a scarf and winter coat when he talked to Susan on the phone at the time of his accident. We know from Special that the card Michael drew while he was in the hospital was for Walt's 2nd birthday. Susan stated that, when she hadn't heard from him in over 2 months, she got worried and called Andy. That's how she learned about the accident. The cake that Michael drew on the card had 7 candles on it.

*The transcript was wrong.

Also, when Michael is speaking to Susan on the phone, there are lights in the shape of snowflakes hanging in the background. By all accounts it should be the middle of summer because it is very near Walt's birthday. -Thanks Sam G.

If Susan's attorney is accurate, that should make Walt about 35-36 months old the last time Michael sees him prior to Susan's death. This fits Walt's age when you consider Michael's statement that he hasn't been Walt's father for 9 years. He had already been with Susan in Amsterdam for approximately a year (11 mos.) prior to the accident. We know this because Michael hadn't worked for months before Susan left due to it being winter. It was also winter when Michael called Walt in Amsterdam the night of the accident. Michael was in the hospital approximately 3 months before Susan showed up there. Walt would therefore have been nearly 12 mos. when Susan took him to Amsterdam. That means that at the time of Michael's last meeting with Walt, it would be 7 birthdays before he was reunited with his son. SPOOKY!


(Sam G. pointed out on the LLL that there was an occupational therapy calendar at the hospital that was dated 2000. If the show is set in the present day, it shouldn't have been any later than 1996 no matter how you do the math.)


That's all I can think of right now. If there's something I have missed, please post. I'll add in any factual information.

Interesting stuff.

I'd like to see the part of the backstory where Michael and Susan actually meet. Under what circumstances did it happen? Also, they should show something about his art/construction. I would have preferred to see that this past week instead of the custody battle we already knew about. Although, I can understand why they showed it: he lost Walt in that part of the backstory and he just lost him again to the Others.

Yeah, I'd like to see how they met and got together too. How doesn't a lawyer like her end up with an artists? Not a usual pairing for a young lawyer trying to move up in the world.

I'd like to know how she made senior partner so fast. Nepotism aside, it doesn't seem logical that you can go from an associate to senior partner in just a little over a year. Something's fishy there I think.

I'd like to know how she made senior partner so fast. Nepotism aside, it doesn't seem logical that you can go from an associate to senior partner in just a little over a year. Something's fishy there I think.

Brian was her boss at first. Remember when Michael was on the payphone, before he got hit by the car? That's when he found out she was seeing Brian. She said she started seeing him after she got hired but, who knows? Maybe we'll find out differently.

Brian was her boss at first. Remember when Michael was on the payphone, before he got hit by the car? That's when he found out she was seeing Brian. She said she started seeing him after she got hired but, who knows? Maybe we'll find out differently.

Agreed, Lost_In_New_York. May I call you Liny? I still think that even though Brian was her boss, he would have other partners who might have a problem with his promoting his wife so quickly. Sounds to me like some kind of conspiracy angle. Hmm...

Of the main characters, Michael is one of the least explored characters in the show.


Now that you mention it, there isn't very much that we know about him, is there? Well, at least compared to the others.

Cool new math on Michael and Walt's timeline! It's the first time I have gone over this information with a fine tooth comb since Adrift. I was shocked when I realized that Michael's drawing was foreshadowing his reunion with Walt 7 years from the last time they saw each other.

ETA: See the first post in this thread for the new information.

I've observed these instances of Michael not taking responsibility for .....

- he blames Sawyer for MAKING him shoot off the flare and attract the others
- he calls his mom to take care of either Walt or Vincent, before he even gets on the flight home.
- Susan made him give up his birth rights of Walt. If Brian adopted Walt, he had to have.
- he blames Sawyer for Walt's kidnapping, when he should never have brought Walt on the raft in the first place.
- at the meeting when Susans lawyer asked Michael what Walt's favorite food was, or what his first word was and Michael didn't know, I couldn't think of a good reason for him not to know. Did he never phone her and talk about Walt's progress?
- during the meeting, Susan mentions that he is being evicted from his apartment.

When he takes responsibility for Walt's kidnapping does he come full circle?


NOT PART OF THE PLAN
What in the world was "the plan" It sounds like "the incident"


Another thing that seems "off" is that he hasn't been interested enough to call Susan and ask about Walt (assuming that's what happened), but as soon as he hears that Susan is with another man, he's going to come to Amsterdam and get him!!


He took the money from Susan for his doctor bills, and there is speculation she may have paid for him to go to Art school.

When they are discussing the money during the meeting, he shouts, "I didn't ask you for anything" What struck me funny about him saying that, is that he did take the money whether he asked for it or not. It would have been a lot of money too, and I don't know many men in the same situation that would have taken it?


I also think the above line sounds more like something a teenager would say. Now don't get me wrong, I'm no Michael hater, I just want to figure him out.

shootfire LOL I went surfing for info on Michael, and it was you that theorized Susan paid for art school. You also appear to have given Michael's character a lot of thought. (I just cruised the King of the raft thread)

More of Micheal and responsibility issues:

"He would work construction until she got a job at a fancy law firm, and then she could support him."

When Michael was golfing and ignored Walt it was heart breaking. The poor kid has been through hell and high water and his dad totally disses him. I'd imagine this was to show us his progress? He does at least try to "fix" it with Walt, but as soon as his name was called for it being his turn to golf, he didn't hardly hesitate.

When Michael got angry over the raft and it was scaring Walt, he caught himself and turned it into a lesson.

When Walt told Michael he burnt the first raft, Michael didn't even start to get mad and then have to calm down. He was just being a great dad.

Michael: I was an artist in a previous life.
See you in another life.

shootfire Did Michael go to engineering or architecture school after giving up Walt? Impact velocity is not a term that construction people toss around a lot.

Nice connection on engineering/architecture and "impact velocity"

The Plan / The Incident
artist in a previous life / see you in another life
engineering / impact velocity

Michael and the ideas of him communicating through his art might be able to be connected with Michael communicating with sign language with Sun.

- he blames Sawyer for MAKING him shoot off the flare and attract the others

I agree with this actually. Sawyer didn't exactly take the gun out of his pants and take aim at Michael.

From losthatch.com transcript:
Michael No, I live in a studio apartment. I've got to be out the door in the morning for work by 5:00 AM. Who's going to watch him? How's he going to get to school? What's he going to do after school? I can't do this, ma. You know, I was listen, I was thinking um I was thinking maybe you could take him. Look, ma, if it's a question of money I... Do Then what am I supposed to do with him? He's not supposed to be mine. That was never part of the plan. Yeah, I thanks a lot.

I'm pretty sure this is about Walt, unless he thinks Vincent needs to go to obedience school...hmmm...might not be a bad idea knowing Vincent.

- Susan made him give up his birth rights of Walt. If Brian adopted Walt, he had to have.

I sort of agree with this. He could have fought her. He would have had to be a pretty rotten person for the courts to have terminated his parental rights. I just don't see that happening if he had been determined. He made the choice. He definitely signed on the dotted line.

- he blames Sawyer for Walt's kidnapping, when he should never have brought Walt on the raft in the first place.

He did blame Sawyer, and it wasn't Sawyer's fault. It was the OTHERS!!! Darn it!!! They are to blame! :biggrin: I'm not sure I agree on the raft issue. Had they gotten away without the others finding them, they might have been rescued. I'm not sure how long Walt will survive on the island. A slow death at sea might have been preferrable, oh, but Sawyer had that gun. Even that's not really an issue.

- at the meeting when Susans lawyer asked Michael what Walt's favorite food was, or what his first word was and Michael didn't know, I couldn't think of a good reason for him not to know. Did he never phone her and talk about Walt's progress?

Hmmm...apparently he did call. From the sounds of the phonecall we heard in Special, it seems Susan wasn't very communicative. The only information we got from her was Walt's age, which Michael already knew. Perhaps that was part of her plan. Don't give him the information, then if he resists in court, at least you have that little piece of ammunition.

- during the meeting, Susan mentions that he is being evicted from his apartment.

True, it's clear that he wasn't though. He was still there as of Special, when Walt was 10 yrs. old. That's what makes me wonder if there wasn't additional money provided to Michael by Susan and Brian to help seal the deal. Perhaps a scholarship?

When he takes responsibility for Walt's kidnapping does he come full circle?

I'm not sure. He took responsibility for it, but I'm not sure he's accepting the fact that sometimes things happen that nobody has control over. It's nobody's fault. It just happened because some evil people did an evil thing. I'm not sure the circle ever ends...

NOT PART OF THE PLAN
What in the world was "the plan" It sounds like "the incident"

It sounds to me like Michael may have made a plan for his life after he lost Walt. Maybe he decided to not have a family because it hurts when you lose loved ones. My pet theory right now is that Michael went back to school to get a degree in architectureor engineering. Without a relationship or a child, it would be a lot easier to get that accomplished. Of course, working and going to school wouldn't leave a lot of time for relationships either. From what we have seen, there is no sign of another relationship or other children in the 7 years that Walt has been out of his life. Hmm...busy? or trust issues?:undecide:

He took the money from Susan for his doctor bills, and there is speculation she may have paid for him to go to Art school.

Art school? Maybe. I'm of the opinion he had probably already been to art school. Possibly they met on a college campus. I'm thinking if there was extra booty after signing Walt away, he used it for architecture or engineering school, which would provide more opportunity for a career. This goes back to the I am...I mean I was... comment that Michael made to Jack when Jack said he thought Michael was in construction. He is, but he isn't exactly. He's not like "a construction worker." He's the man with the plan.

Another thing that seems "off" is that he hasn't been interested enough to call Susan and ask about Walt (assuming that's what happened), but as soon as he hears that Susan is with another man, he's going to come to Amsterdam and get him!!

This one seems pretty simple to me. While he wasn't happy when she left, the way she left it didn't sound very permanent. There was still the hope that she would come back or ask him to join her. Once she was getting married, it made things seem a lot more permanent.

When they are discussing the money during the meeting, he shouts, "I didn't ask you for anything" What struck me funny about him saying that, is that he did take the money whether he asked for it or not. It would have been a lot of money too, and I don't know many men in the same situation that would have taken it?

Agreed. He took the money. I'm sure he felt he didn't have much choice, but I suppose he really did. I will say that what the hospital administrator did was wrong and illegal. He should never have discussed Michael's bill with Susan without Michael's prior consent. If she misrepresented herself as Michael's attorney that's grounds for disbarment, meaning he really did have the means to fight her. They weren't even married for Pete's sake!

I also think the above line sounds more like something a teenager would say. Now don't get me wrong, I'm no Michael hater, I just want to figure him out.

That's probably what they were going for all along. Make him feel that if he has a lot of hospital bills he won't get Walt for financial reasons. Heck, he wouldn't even have a place to live. If he takes the money, he has a place for Walt, but he looks really ungrateful. Michael's commentary was just icing on the cake, and made him look immature. It's a common tactic in custody cases to try to show the court that the only reason someone wishes to retain custody is the belief that they have a right to be a parent simply because of an accident of birth, not the responsibility of being a parent. It was kind of a no win situation. The smart thing would have been to say, "I really appreciated the help too. It means I'll be able to get on my feet a lot sooner so I can be a better father for Walt."

I know WIF is not a Michael hater. WIF doesn't hate.:cool: Anyway, that

LOL, and I spent so much time composing my response to you, not only did it cut off my post, I missed another post from you!:biggrin:

Anyway, that's my take on Michael. That's what I was gonna say. :lol:

When Michael was golfing and ignored Walt it was heart breaking. The poor kid has been through hell and high water and his dad totally disses him. I'd imagine this was to show us his progress? He does at least try to "fix" it with Walt, but as soon as his name was called for it being his turn to golf, he didn't hardly hesitate.

When Michael got angry over the raft and it was scaring Walt, he caught himself and turned it into a lesson.

When Walt told Michael he burnt the first raft, Michael didn't even start to get mad and then have to calm down. He was just being a great dad.

Yes!! WIF, it's Michael making progress in the father dept.

Quote:
"He would work construction until she got a job at a fancy law firm, and then she could support him."

This was back before Walt was born, when Michael was a happy-go-lucky type. I think he has probably become much more practical. I suppose it's a hard lesson to learn. He couldn't expect someone else to take care of him. He had to do it for himself. It's part of the reason I think he went back to school. ETA: It took losing his son to figure it out.

Thanks for clearing up who Michael was referring to on the phone call to his mom. I live lost and I even did a bio on Walt and I still wasn't clear on that point.


I like your thoughts that Michael might have "trust issues" and has had no significant other since Susan.


He's the man with the plan
I love that


I'm clear on the art school/engineering thing now that I've read a bunch more. It's a very cool thought.


Agreed. He took the money. I'm sure he felt he didn't have much choice, but I suppose he really did. I will say that what the hospital administrator did was wrong and illegal. He should never have discussed Michael's bill with Susan without Michael's prior consent. If she misrepresented herself as Michael's attorney that's grounds for disbarment, meaning he really did have the means to fight her. They weren't even married for Pete's sake!

Wow. The whole hospital scene was weird. They seemed so friendly with each other, and the last contact they had was mean and ugly. What's your take on that?

Susan was laying the groundwork, setting the proverbial mousetrap. She had to stay friendly with him, or he would have refused the money. She couldn't have that if she intended to use it to manipulate him. During that whole visit she never mentioned Michael signing his parental rights away. She didn't want him on the defensive yet.

What have you figured out about all the palm tree sightings around Michael, Susan and Walt?

I read a few posts on it, but don't remember where it went. Something to do with Palm Sunday?

What have you figured out about all the palm tree sightings around Michael, Susan and Walt?

WIF, I keep finding referrences to columns in threes. There are floor lamps at Susan and Brian's house that have 3 column bases. They're in the hallway that Michael passes through from the octagon foyer. Cooper had 3 columns. In MoSMoF, the world column was used 3 different times with 3 different meanings. Which lead me to the following link.

http://www.tracingboard.com/tracing_board.htm

Notice that a lot of this symbolism is borrowed from other texts. The three columns by the same names can actually be traced to Kaballah.

The tree of life
The centers are arranged in three columns. The left column is called the Pillar of Severity. This represents the female side of man and contains three sephira: Binah (Understanding), Geburah (Severity) and Hod (Splendor).
The right column is called the Pillar of Mercy. This represents the male side of man and also contains three sephira: Chokmah (Wisdom), Chesed (Mercy) and Netzach (Victory).
The middle pillar is called the Pillar of Equilibrium. It represents the balance between the male and female pillars. It contains four sephira:
Kether (Crown), Tiphareth (Beauty), Yesod (Foundation) and Malkuth (Kingdom).
The Kabbala requires four of these Trees, one for each world of the cosmos

http://www.trashcity.com/kaballah.htm

Also at this link the following stood out to me. Archangelic+Creative World=Michael

Representing the creative world, the Archangelic, and thee in the Hebrew Name of God. It corresponds to the Suit of Cups.

Interestingly, the Tree of Life is depicted by Ancient Egyptians and Greeks as the date palm tree in surviving art of the time. Polynesian culture refers to the coconut palm as the Tree of Life. I think this may correspond with the Tree of Life in the Kaballah. Discuss?

ETA: A couple of links for you.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=27159&fullsize=1
Remember the palm tree in this screencap?

http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Phoenix-Dactylifera-Posters_i129823_.htm
I think this is the same kind of palm.

http://www.dipbot.unict.it/Palms/descr02.html

okay I'm pooped. I'll have to get to the palm tree mystery tomorrow. I just read a ton of Michael threads and I'm looking forward to talking to you about him more.

We know that Michael manages to keep what he wants. His apartment in Matt. NYC this in spite of the fact that the landlord may not take payment in scribbles or stuffed animals.

The most interesting thing with the new flashback was Susans lawyer mentioning PRIVATE HOPITAL more than once. That and Susan having access to handle the bill.
Have we seen odd things going on in other private hospitals? Wonder if Mike got more than a sell-out bonus?

Things I know about Michael

Michael did blame Sawyer but I have a feeling he was just mad at himself.

Susan did not want Michael in Walt's life. Those questions from the lawyer about Walt were unfair.

Also he has tried to keep in contact with him. He sent him all those postcards but never got a response because Susan never showed them to Walt.

He was going to fight her in court for Walt until she guilted him into letting her keep him.

What I know about Michael is that he got duped big time by Susan. Brian didn't even want custody of Walt but she told Michael that that's what he wanted.

He has accepted help from her but it seems like she is good at manipulating him into doing what she wants and it backfires on him with the lawyers.

I didn't feel this way about her at first but once it was pointed out to me I saw how this could be true. I'm not saying that she doesn't care about him at all but some of the things she has said to him lead me to believe that there was some manipulation going on.

Lastly, Brian shows up at Michael door how many years later and tells him that he doesn't want Walt. Now all of a sudden he has to take care of this child. He didn't have any warning, he probably thought he would never see him again. He probably called his mom because he thought she was better suited to take care of him(and also because he was scared) Just like with Claire, at first she didn't want her child but she decided to take the responsibility. There's no doubt that Michael loves Walt but Susan didn't want him to be his father and now he has to step up to the plate. He may not have wanted to do it at first but he's doing it now. I think the reason why he is so persistent in finding Walt is beacause he's finally really started to bond with him.:smile:

We know that Michael manages to keep what he wants. His apartment in Matt. NYC this in spite of the fact that the landlord may not take payment in scribbles or stuffed animals.

I wonder if he miraculously found a buyer for some of his artwork that he used to catch up his rent? OR, did he receive a parting gift from Susan and Brian?

The most interesting thing with the new flashback was Susans lawyer mentioning PRIVATE HOPITAL more than once.
Did she mean private hospital or private room? I can't decide. When Susan shows up at the hospital in Special he was in a big ward. Patients in a large ward are usually there because they don't have the means to pay for a private room.

Lizzy: You had several surgeries, spent weeks in a private hospital room, extensive rehabilitation. Who paid for all of that, Mr. Dawson?

He didn't have any warning, he probably thought he would never see him again.
Ana-Lucia, I think that is probably the simple answer to "the plan" Michael was referring to on the phone with his mother. I'm just wondering if there isn't a little more to it. Michael seems to have changed a lot since he lost Walt.

I think the reason why he is so persistent in finding Walt is beacause he's finally really started to bond with him.
Yes! Ana-Lucia. I think Michael always loved Walt, but his love is more tempered by maturity now.

Something else odd hit me today as I rewatched Special. When Susan told him she was taking Walt to Amsterdam, he didn't get emotional about losing her. It was only Walt that concerned him. He never once told her that he loved her and wanted her to stay, only that she couldn't take Walt.

Something else odd hit me today as I rewatched Special. When Susan told him she was taking Walt to Amsterdam, he didn't get emotional about losing her. It was only Walt that concerned him. He never once told her that he loved her and wanted her to stay, only that she couldn't take Walt.



Maybe when they got into a relationship they never thought it would be long term and once she left with Walt she moved on and he did the same.

Maybe when they got into a relationship they never thought it would be long term and once she left with Walt she moved on and he did the same.

Well, that makes sense on Susan's side of things. She has evidently expressed that she thinks marriage is prosaic. She wanted to live on a boat. It sounds like she was a pretty free thinker. OTOH, she did marry Brian. They did discuss marriage though. Michael indicated that he wanted to marry Susan, but that she wouldn't marry him.

shootfire, I copied some interesting questions and posts when I was surfing around, and I'd like to see your take on them.


Is Michael prejudice? He surely thinks that Sawyer is a redneck, plus his comments re: Koreans don't like Blacks.


Sawyer says Michael has the patience of a saint, but it looks like Sawyer has the patience of a saint with Michael.


posted by Locked Up on another thread
Why is Susan so scared of going to trial? It seems to me she has a sure case. She can provide for Walt, Michael can't. She is the mother (usually given custody over the father). She's been in his life, Michael hasn't, etc. It sure seemed to me like her lawyer was making Michael look ridiculous for even trying to take the case to court. It looked like a real lost cause for him... then the next you thing know... Susan is begging him to drop the case. Didn't make much sense. Plus she mentions that Michael's lawyer has been "checking up" on her. What did he find or what is she afraid he'll find?


posted by CaptainKidd on another thread
I took it completely different from anything I've read here. I figured it was because she was playing both Mike and Bryan. She'd lead Mike to believe that Bryan desperately wanted to adopt Walt, and that it was in Walt's best interest to let him. Bryan later told Mike that he only did it because she insisted, and it was the only way to get the girl.

If it had gone to court, she would have been trying to remove a father's rights (who didn't want to relinquish them, and was only unemployed because he had been injured) and give them to a man who, under oath, would have to admit that he was reluctant to be a father ( and didn't want the kid in the first place.)

In that scenario, she was correct, she would have not only lost, but Mike would have probably been awarded child support from her.


posted by dante on another thread
Susan is not scared of going to trial and did not really think she would lose - she is just saying so to further her ultimate goal of taking Walt (and it worked). She used an "I'm meeting you without my lawyers so we can be reasonable and human about this" gambit, and what did it accomplish? Exactly what she wanted it to: Michael backed down. This was strategy on her part. If it didn't work, she was no worse off - she just proceeds with the litigation. She realized that Michael had his back up against the wall. By giving him a false concession ("I think you'll win if we pursue this"), it put him in a position where he could feel less defensive and therefore more magnanimous and, ultimately, give her exactly what she wanted from him. You get more flies with honey...


Impulsiveness is part of Michael's character?


SAWYER:[quietly to Michael]: Hey Mike, I think we ought to stage a prison break here.

MICHAEL: Yeah, well I want to figure out what the hell's going on over here before I make any decisions about anything.



SAWYER:[under his breath]: I think she needs to be slapped.

WALT SLAP COMMENT



SAWYER: The Others? How many? How many?

JIN: [Says something in Korean, and makes a gesture to show he was blindfolded]

MICHAEL: He was blindfolded.

Communication skills. He also did sign language with Sun before he knew she spoke English.




[Suddenly a knife pokes through the cover and Sawyer falls. The leader looks down at them and then opens the cover. Ana Lucia is thrown in, unconscious.]

MICHAEL: It's a girl.

Sounds like what a new daddy says. Has he said these words before?



ATTORNEY: Michael, she's baiting - she's baiting you. Don't give her an answer.

Fishing reference?



SUSAN: Michael, the first thing you need to do is take care of yourself. You need to get healthy. You need to get back on your feet financially so you can get back to pursuing your art. You have rare talent as an artist, Michael. But how are you going to do that -- any of that -- and still be a part of Walt's life?

Why would it be so hard to be a part of Walt's life? Does she mean cuz she's out of the country?




MICHAEL: I do it by doing it. Walt is my responsibility, too.
SUSAN: Then let him go because it's not about you or me -- it's about him. I don't want to go court, Michael. So please just let him go.

Jack and "letting go"

Is Michael prejudice? He surely thinks that Sawyer is a redneck, plus his comments re: Koreans don't like Blacks.

I think he's probably prejudiced to the same extent most people who aren't raised in a bubble are. We all have preconceived notions about things that happen to us personally, and in our world in general, whether we want to or not. The question is whether or not he is racist, and I don't believe he is. A racist would not have changed his position, or wanted to teach his child that prejudice is a lack of discernment. Michael is respectful of Jin when he accepts Jin's gift of the watch, which indicates to me that he respects Koreans enough to care about their cultural values. Hurley had to learn the hard way by refusing Jin's gift of a sea urchin first. Michael, OTOH recognized what it meant to Jin to give him that watch. Though he did seem to be uncomfortable with it, he accepted it without argument. For most people, I believe accepting such a large gift from someone they have known for a short time would have meant a "thank you for the thought, but I couldn't possibly accept" reply. Even if the comment was false, they would at least say it for appearances' sake. :grin: It makes me wonder if Michael hasn't had some past personal interaction in Korean culture.

Sawyer says Michael has the patience of a saint, but it looks like Sawyer has the patience of a saint with Michael.\

Sawyer didn't seem all that patient to me. :smile: He seemed to expect a lot of gratitude from Michael for his "self-sacrifice," which, to me, makes his gesture less than altruistic. He expects a payoff, even if it's just someone's gratitude. However, it was the heat of the moment, so I'm willing to give Sawyer the benefit of time and self-examination of his motives before deciding if I think he's a jerk or not. I find it irritating when someone who spends a lifetime doing rotten things, suddenly expects a medal for finally doing something that's simply the right thing to do. You see someone dying, you try to save their life. It's just that simple.

Why is Susan so scared of going to trial? It seems to me she has a sure case. She can provide for Walt, Michael can't. She is the mother (usually given custody over the father). She's been in his life, Michael hasn't, etc. It sure seemed to me like her lawyer was making Michael look ridiculous for even trying to take the case to court. It looked like a real lost cause for him... then the next you thing know... Susan is begging him to drop the case. Didn't make much sense. Plus she mentions that Michael's lawyer has been "checking up" on her. What did he find or what is she afraid he'll find?

It didn't seem sure to me at all.
You have to be a serious miscreant to have your parental rights terminated involunarily in this country. Michael might not have gained custody, but his parental rights would NOT have been terminated against his will. Furthermore, Susan would have had to assume a reasonable share of the burden for making visits with Michael possible, if she was even allowed out of the country with Walt. As far as Michael's lawyer checking up on her, he wouldn't have had to go far. The biggest problem with her case, if I were presiding or sitting on a jury, would be the fact that Brian was not present for the deposition. Someone who desired to have the parental rights of another severed in favor of himself should certainly care enough to be present for the proceedings.

I agree with what Captain Kidd said, except for maybe the child support part. Michael would actually have to be awarded custody for that to happen. :)

Impulsiveness is part of Michael's character?
I can agree with that characterization. Mainly, I think it's something that comes naturally for him, though he does try not to be. Of course, I don't think that judging him by what's going on right now with Walt missing is exactly fair.

MICHAEL: Yeah, well I want to figure out what the hell's going on over here before I make any decisions about anything.
In all fairness, he did wait until he knew something about what was going on with the tailaways. It's just that he lost it because he thought he might find Walt.

MICHAEL: It's a girl.

Sounds like what a new daddy says. Has he said these words before?

I don't think so. I'll have to think about that one, but it seems to me that he would have at least mentioned to Walt that he had a sister.

ATTORNEY: Michael, she's baiting - she's baiting you. Don't give her an answer.

Fishing reference?

Only insofar as he was falling for her ploy hook, line, and sinker. :biggrin: Honestly, I don't know. Michael hasn't done any fishing has he? I will defer judgment on that until there is more evidence one way or another.

Why would it be so hard to be a part of Walt's life? Does she mean cuz she's out of the country?

You know, that's an excellent question. There's being a part of someone's life, and then there's taking complete responsibility for them. It sounds a bit like Susan was expecting some kind of all or nothing resolution.

MICHAEL: I do it by doing it. Walt is my responsibility, too.
SUSAN: Then let him go because it's not about you or me -- it's about him. I don't want to go court, Michael. So please just let him go.

Jack and "letting go"

Yes, I think it mirrors Jack's trouble with letting go. In Michael's case though, I think he let go too easily the first time. I don't think it's going to happen as easily this time, if at all. He has had to work too hard for his relationship with Walt, and right now it's all he has except for his friendship with Jin.

Just wanted to comment on Michael and being a racist.

Redneck

All from lost-tv.com


Libby: Sorry, Michael.


Michael: Sorry about what?


Libby:You know, about throwing you and your friends into the pit.


Micheal: Friends.


Libby: What?


Micheal: I guess I just never thought about it like that. I mean, I guess
one of them is my friend.


Libby: I'm guessing not the redneck.


Michael: Yeah, not the redneck


Libby says the redneck statement first and Michael uses her wording in answering her.


Koreans Don't like Black People


Michael: I'm getting tired of saying this. I was just walking the beach with my son, and all of the sudden this dude is all up on me. I didn't do anything.


Sayid: Surely there must be something you're not telling us.


Michael: Surely? Where you from man?


Sayid: Tikrit. Iraq.

Michael: Well, hey. I don't know how it is in Iraq but in the United States of America where I'm from, Korean people don't like black people. Did you know that? So maybe you ought to talk to him.


(Later)


Walt: How come he doesn't like us?


Michael: What?


Walt: You said people like him don't like people like us.

Michael: Oh man. You know, uh, look, that's not true, and you know what, I don't think like that anyway. Iwas, I was angry.


He didn't mean it and I believe him. He was just angry that they were asking him what he did wrong and to his knowledge he hadn't done anything.

I agree that Michael is not rascist, but I thought all these points may add to the big picture eventually.

MICHAEL: Yeah, well I want to figure out what the hell's going on over here before I make any decisions about anything.

I posted this because I thought it may be a clue to Michaels motivation and character. On one hand he's impulsive, but this statement contradicts that. Has he learned from past mistakes?

Is there a connection between Michael taking the expensive watch from Jin, and the money for his hospital stay? It could be to show his growth, and he accepted the gifts for totally different reasons.

I posted this because I thought it may be a clue to Michaels motivation and character. On one hand he's impulsive, but this statement contradicts that. Has he learned from past mistakes?

It's a good point, WIF. I do think he has grown through adversity. He has had several years to ponder what happened between Susan and himself. I'm sure he must realize how he got played because he didn't have all the facts. The problem is that we often can't see the a persons growth until the time of adversity has passed. Michael is in a state of flux right now because of Walt's abduction.

Further, Michael is an interesting mix of idealism and the jaded product of society. There may be times when a bit of immaturity or prejudice peeks through, especially times of overwhelming stress. Isn't that true of everyone? It's part of what makes Michael's character genuine to me. However, once he has time to think things through, we are able to get a fairly clear picture of what he believes.

Is there a connection between Michael taking the expensive watch from Jin, and the money for his hospital stay? It could be to show his growth, and he accepted the gifts for totally different reasons.

Agreed. He accepted the gifts for completely different reasons. When he accepted Susan's gift, I think it was an act of desperation. Accepting Jin's gift was an act of humility and respect.

2 questions did Michael paint the mural in his apt?
Has it ever been established what branch of art he works in? Susan says your art which does not define it. Could it be sculpture maybe even metal work.

According to Special he is a painter. Of course, that doesn't mean he cannot work with other mediums as well. Whether he works with pottery, or merely appreciates it, there is a lot of pottery in his apartment besides the painting. The same was true of Thomas and Claire's apartment as well. I didn't see any metalwork in the screencaps of Michael's place, though I would have loved that. :grin:

We don't know that the painting is Michael's, but it would make sense. A painting of that size and quality would be extremely costly to purchase. From everything we have been shown, Susan and Michael didn't have much money. It doesn't appear to be a mural though. It looks to me like a very large canvas. I think the brick texture would have come through more had it been a mural. I've been trying to decide what Michael's artistic style is. I think I would classify him an Expressionist.

Excellent thread.

I believe in looking at Michael we need to take a few things into consideration. First, giving up Walt was not his idea. If we learn anything from the scene in his apartment it's that he is a doting father who really enjoys and loves his son.

Second, Susan has always been able to manipulate him. From the start she when they talk about what to name Walt, there is manipulation and negotiation going on. I believe Michael truly loved her and because of that love was very easily manipulated by her.

Third, Susan was never endanger of losing custody of Walt. The legal action that Michael was seeking was to stop her from taking Walt out of the country and getting Michael to give up parental custody. When his lawyer is going over the paperwork he tells Michael that by signing the document he would be giving up all parental rights.

Finally, Let's say Michael believes he is doing what is best for Walt by allowing Susan to take him. This doesn't mean that he hasn't second guessed himself over the years. In fact I would say it's a pretty good bet that he has wallowed in guilt the whole time. I think a lot of his anger stems from this guilt. He did write to Walt and it was Susan that hid the letters. Also just because Michael has an apartment to go to after retrieving Walt doesn't mean it's the same apartment he had when he was fighting for his parental rights. He still could have "lost" that apartment since it was so many years ago.

Third, Susan was never endanger of losing custody of Walt. The legal action that Michael was seeking was to stop her from taking Walt out of the country and getting Michael to give up parental custody. When his lawyer is going over the paperwork he tells Michael that by signing the document he would be giving up all parental rights.

Of course! That's right. Nothing was ever said about terminating Michael's parental rights against his will. No, she would never have lost custody. They might have made her stay in the U.S. though. She would have been perfectly capable of finding a job in the U.S. She could have worked out of a NY office of the firm if she was such a valuable associate that she was about to be promoted to senior partner. I mean, what international law firm worth it's salt doesn't have an office in NY?

Also just because Michael has an apartment to go to after retrieving Walt doesn't mean it's the same apartment he had when he was fighting for his parental rights. He still could have "lost" that apartment since it was so many years ago.

Hmmm... the screencaps of Michael's apartment were all from Special. It is interesting that in the scenes with Susan we see an expansive living area. Later, when Brian shows up after Susan's death, we see the entry between a sleeping area and tiny kitchen area. When Brian sits at the table, you can see Michael's couch behind him. It's not far away as I would have expected. Hmm...I think he did lose his apartment. It always did bother me that there would be such a tiny kitchen and bedroom with a ginormous living room in the same apartment. Nice catch LBL.

I'll tell you what I've been wondering about, Susan's personal effects that were given to Michael. I'm not talking about the box of cards and letters the nanny gave him. She said the box was something she thought he should have. Personally, I think that was the nanny's idea. It's the envelope that she said Brian told her to give him that I'm wondering about. What was in that envelope!?

"I'll tell you what I've been wondering about, Susan's personal effects that were given to Michael. I'm not talking about the box of cards and letters the nanny gave him. She said the box was something she thought he should have. Personally, I think that was the nanny's idea. It's the envelope that she said Brian told her to give him that I'm wondering about. What was in that envelope!? "

I would think they must have been Walt's passport and other documentation Michael would need in order to leave the country with Walt. Brian, being a lawyer, would also have had to draw up legal papers giving Michael custody of Walt. What surprises me is that Brian was able to get all the paperwork together in such a short period of time. I was left with the impression that once Brian saw Michael he never returned because Walt asks Michael where Brian is?

S1E14 Dagne Walt should be home from school any minute. Mr. Porter asked me to give you that some of Susan's effects.


Would Susan's effects include Walt's passport? I would think all of that had been set up prior to Michael coming to the door to get Walt. Didn't Michael's flight leave from NY the next day after Brian came to his apartment? Walt told Locke the day after they crashed that his mother died two weeks ago. Evidently Michael was in Sydney for a while taking care of things before picking up Walt.

Okay Shootfire, It was some of Susans effects. I'm guessing jewlry and other mometoes that pertained to their time together. Yes Michael was there for a while because I remember something about the dog, Vincent. Now was that just on the board or was there an actual reference to it on the show? It gets a bit confusing.

Okay Shootfire, It was some of Susans effects. I'm guessing jewlry and other mometoes that pertained to their time together. Yes Michael was there for a while because I remember something about the dog, Vincent. Now was that just on the board or was there an actual reference to it on the show? It gets a bit confusing.

Hmmm...I don't remember anything from the show about Michael spending time in Sydney related to the dog. I can see how someone might theorize that it would take a while to get him on an international flight though.

Talking about boxes and how prevalent they are as a clue, maybe there is more to the box of letters than we've seen so far. Eg: Dharma logo on it, or secret compartment?

I like the idea of Michael having some of Susan's personal effects. There could be an interesting sub story there?

Can someone help me out here. When was the reference made, on the Island, to Walt having "Lost" her mother 2 weeks prior? If we know when in relation to the crash we might be able to figure out a reasonable timeline of how long Michael was in Sydney prior to returning with Walt.

It is from Pilot 2


[LOCKE AND WALT]

(Locke sits alone on the beach cross-legged in front of a small travel
backgammon board. He's setting up the backgammon board for a game. The board is
a leather-bound case with white and gray designs. He places the black and white
backgammon pieces on the board.)

(Locke pauses for a moment, sensing something.)

(Behind Locke, Walt walks by and watches him.)

WALT: (calls out) What is it, like, checkers?

(Locke continues to set up the board game. He answers without looking up.)

JOHN LOCKE: Not really. It's a better game than -- checkers.

(Curious, Walt walks nearer. Locke glances sideways behind him and notes where
Walt is.)

JOHN LOCKE: You play checkers with your pop?

WALT: No. I live in Australia with my mom.

JOHN LOCKE: You have no accent.

WALT: Yeah, I know. We move a lot. She got sick. She died a couple of weeks
ago.

JOHN LOCKE: You're having a bad month.

WALT: I guess.

(Walt completes the distance between them and sits down on the opposite side of
Locke. The game board is between them.)

JOHN LOCKE: (explains) Backgammon is the oldest game in the world.
Archaeologists found sets when they excavated the ruins of Ancient Mesopotamia.
Five thousand years old. That's older than Jesus Christ.

WALT: (nods) Did they have dice and stuff?

(Locke nods.)

JOHN LOCKE: Mmm. But theirs weren't made of plastic. Their dice were made of
bones.

WALT: Cool.

JOHN LOCKE: Two players. Two sides. (He picks up two game pieces and holds one
piece in each hand, showing it to Walt. In his left hand, he holds up a white
piece; in his right, a black piece.) One is light; one is dark.

(Walt doesn't say anything.)

JOHN LOCKE: (mysteriously) Walt ... Do you want to know a secret?

Thanks WIF. So this was within days of being on the "Island". Brian sees Michael the day after Susan dies. So give or take a day or two, Michael was in Sydney for about 10 days.

I like the idea of Michael having some of Susan's personal effects. There could be an interesting sub story there?

That's what I was thinking WIF. Also, in Special, Michael was reading something when Hurley walked up to tell him Walt was missing again. He must have been pretty engrossed to let Walt get away from him again.

Ohhh, sorry LBL, I misunderstood what you were saying about the exact referrence. I thought you were talking about Vincent. My bad. Anyway, yes, he was probably there about 10 days.

I remember that scene. Was he rereading a letter he sent to Walt, or was it something Nanny Dagne, put in the box?

I remember that scene. Was he rereading a letter he sent to Walt, or was it something Nanny Dagne, put in the box?

I was wondering if maybe it was Susan's diary. I need to watch Special AGAIN!!!! :lol:

So, how is it that Michael knows how to use a variety of firearms? We saw him use the 9mm to shoot the shark in Adrift. He told Jack he knew how to use the shotgun in Collision. If he's from NYC, what are the chances he was a hunter? He showed no signs of being an experienced hunter when he went on the boar hunt.

You don't need to be a hunter to know how to use weapons. I have never hunted in my life yet have fired a hand gun, shot gun and M16 rifle. I would also say that Michael isn't an expert with the weapons since he did have some trouble with the 9mm.

I glad to see Michael being portrayed a bit differently in the last couple of episodes. Many people misunderstood his actions and attitudes after he lost Walt.

You don't need to be a hunter to know how to use weapons. I have never hunted in my life yet have fired a hand gun, shot gun and M16 rifle. I would also say that Michael isn't an expert with the weapons since he did have some trouble with the 9mm.

I glad to see Michael being portrayed a bit differently in the last couple of episodes. Many people misunderstood his actions and attitudes after he lost Walt.


Point taken. I didn't really mean to imply that only hunters knew how to fire weapons. In fact, most hunters don't have a lot of use for 9 mms. A shotgun is an easy enough weapon to operate. I do think it helps considerably to be a hunter, or at least trained, when you're trying to hit a moving target though. To be any good, you have to be dedicated enough to spend some time working at it. Maybe it's just me, but if I weren't proficient, I probably wouldn't be too eager to say that I could in a life and death situation. Of course, I have my pet theory about why Michael had trouble with the 9mm, and it doesn't include operator error. :biggrin: I don't think it was necessarily a reflection on Michael's shooting skills.

I suppose I phrased my original query poorly. My question was actually what are the possible origins of his knowledge of weapons. Having grown up in the country, hunting was commonplace, and shooting cans was entertainment. :whoot!: I'm just wondering how prevalent that kind of thing is in large urban centers. It's not like you can go out in the field and just shoot. You would have to go to a firing range wouldn't you? erm...unless, of course, you're a thug. I don't see Michael as a thug.

Also, I have wondered before if Michael may have been in the military at some point. It might be pretty interesting if Michael was in the Gulf War. He might have crossed paths with Sayid, OR he might have met Hurley's friend who was in the Gulf War. I admit it's almost completely baseless, I just thought it would be interesting to consider.

All I know is he used to be the most annoying, rage filled charector on the show. Ana-Lucia made me like Michael a lot more so she has that going for her.

The problem with Michael is we only know his story as it relates to Walt(Susan). We don't know if he lived his while life in NYC or grew up elsewhere. We know virtually nothing about his family, father mother siblings. Where Michael learned about guns will be hard to figure out.

Michael's rage and attitude are completely understandable. He made a very tough decision when he allowed Susan to take Walt. He then came to grips with the fact that he might never see him again and then has him dropped in his lap. I can only imagine the emotions that would be coursing through me if I were in the same situation. Anger and Rage would be a few. After having bonded with Walt he has him taken away again. I think he is holding it together remarkably well under the circumstances.

Also, I have wondered before if Michael may have been in the military at some point. It might be pretty interesting if Michael was in the Gulf War. He might have crossed paths with Sayid, OR he might have met Hurley's friend who was in the Gulf War. I admit it's almost completely baseless, I just thought it would be interesting to consider.

For some reason, maybe it was something said in the show I'm not sure, but I have been thinking that Michael got a lot of training in the armed forces. I have no idea where that idea came from!

But let's see - he was an artist and not making a lot of money at it. He tells Jack in one of the first episodes on the island that he's an engineer. WTH? What an interesting contradiction in personalities! :D The creative free spirit vs. the rigid anal perfectionist. Wow.........

So then I started thinking, how in the world did he become an engineer? He had no money. Then it hit me that maybe he went to college on a GI bill. That would explain how he could afford to graduate from an engineering program AND would also explain his handiness with weapons. (You still go to boot camp and get a buttload of training on the GI bill) This would certainly explain any military knowledge or expertise.

What do y'all think? Am I anywhere close??? ;)

So then I started thinking, how in the world did he become an engineer? He had no money. Then it hit me that maybe he went to college on a GI bill. That would explain how he could afford to graduate from an engineering program AND would also explain his handiness with weapons. (You still go to boot camp and get a buttload of training on the GI bill) This would certainly explain any military knowledge or expertise.

What do y'all think? Am I anywhere close??? ;)

Well, Michael has never actually said he is an engineer, but I do have suspicions that he may be. I'm also curious about his knowledge of blast doors. Of course, he might have learned that any number of ways.

JACK: Think about what, John? Shannon's dead, Sayid's being held at gunpoint. You want to sit and hope that situation resolves itself -- be my guest. [Handing Michael a gun] You know how to use this?

MICHAEL: Yes, sir.

Michael's response to Jack's question certainly sounds like it might come from a military background.

I don't know about the military angle. He would have been hard pressed time wise to fullfill a 3-6 year military stint and finish a program in engineeringin the 8 years since giving up Walt. First off he wasn't fully recovered from his accident when Susan and Walt left. They said he would need a year of physical therapy to recover. In the hospital he told the nurse that Walt's 2 birthday was next week, meaning Walt would be 3 before he fully recovered. If I remember correctly Michael was doing construction while he and Susan were together. The only things that have been mentioned as far as possibilities of employment are Art and Construction. I believe he went back to construction after his rehab. With his background in art and construction he could know about blast doors and would have the proper functioning mind to build the things he has on the "Island".

Wan't it Jack who asked him if he was an engineer and Michael responded with the line "Yeah, something like that."?

"Michael No, I live in a studio apartment. I've got to be out the door in the morning for work by 5:00 AM. Who's going to watch him? How's he going to get to school? What's he going to do after school? I can't do this, ma. You know, I was listen, I was thinking um I was thinking maybe you could take him. Look, ma, if it's a question of money I... Do Then what am I supposed to do with him? He's not supposed to be mine. That was never part of the plan. Yeah, I thanks a lot."

This is a quote that I copied from another post that was made on 10/28/2005 on what Mike said to his mother about taking care of Walt.

I read on the net a few months ago from someone who claimed to be a writer for Lost something about Michael

send private message if you want to know what it is.

I don't know about the military angle. He would have been hard pressed time wise to fullfill a 3-6 year military stint and finish a program in engineeringin the 8 years since giving up Walt. First off he wasn't fully recovered from his accident when Susan and Walt left. They said he would need a year of physical therapy to recover. In the hospital he told the nurse that Walt's 2 birthday was next week, meaning Walt would be 3 before he fully recovered. If I remember correctly Michael was doing construction while he and Susan were together. The only things that have been mentioned as far as possibilities of employment are Art and Construction. I believe he went back to construction after his rehab. With his background in art and construction he could know about blast doors and would have the proper functioning mind to build the things he has on the "Island".

Wan't it Jack who asked him if he was an engineer and Michael responded with the line "Yeah, something like that."?

I would think a military stint would come before his relationship with Susan. I don't argue that he could have knowledge of blast doors outside military training. I've made the same argument in another thread. I'm just taking a lot of different little clues and inferring that it's possible.

Michael was in a hospital that had pictures of soldiers on the walls.
He has had some kind of training in weapons.
His "Yes sir" response to Jack when asked if he knew how to use the shotgun.
Susan's lawyer's comment about Susan paying for his "private hospital room." Aren't most hospitals in the U.S. "private" in the sense that the government does not write paychecks for the employees? I know it could just mean private room, but I'm just sayin'...
His knowledge of the use of blast doors.
His response to Walt telling him that Locke is a warrior, and that Michael should listen to him. (Susan didn't tell Walt anything about him, right?)

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I've got off the top of my head.

Jack said, "I thought you were in construction." Michael responded, "I am. I was. It's a long story." To me it sounded like he was still in construction, but in a different capacity than before. Maybe he worked AND went to school in those 8 years.

I would think a military stint would come before his relationship with Susan. I don't argue that he could have knowledge of blast doors outside military training. I've made the same argument in another thread. I'm just taking a lot of different little clues and inferring that it's possible.

Michael was in a hospital that had pictures of soldiers on the walls.
He has had some kind of training in weapons.
His "Yes sir" response to Jack when asked if he knew how to use the shotgun.
Susan's lawyer's comment about Susan paying for his "private hospital room." Aren't most hospitals in the U.S. "private" in the sense that the government does not write paychecks for the employees? I know it could just mean private room, but I'm just sayin'...
His knowledge of the use of blast doors.
His response to Walt telling him that Locke is a warrior, and that Michael should listen to him. (Susan didn't tell Walt anything about him, right?)

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I've got off the top of my head.

Jack said, "I thought you were in construction." Michael responded, "I am. I was. It's a long story." To me it sounded like he was still in construction, but in a different capacity than before. Maybe he worked AND went to school in those 8 years. Michael responded, "I am. I was. Similar to Ana about being a cop.
I too got that feeling that he had military exp. the way he said, Yes Sir
In NYC there are city, Vets and private hospitals
Also it wasn't a private room there was another guy in it. This other patient had kids pictures I don't remember where, were they ever looked at?
I posted to Java asking if Michael was in the same apt. all along, he is yet to reply. It didn't seem like it was a hard question just a yes or no.
It was great that he noticed the blast doors that Mr. Mousetrap missed them. Hope he finds the controls or puts some kind of physical barrier in place so nobody gets trapped

It is possible that Michael served in the military yet I doubt it. I served and had an accident after being discharged and was treated at VA hospital free. If Michael had been in the military Susan would not have had to pay his hospital bills they would have simply had to request his to transfer to a VA hospital. When I had my accident it only took one day to get transferred to the VA hospital.

The reason I don't believe he was in the military is the fact he didn't go to a VA hospital for treatment. Yet if he joined after his recovery and was doing construction while going to school, there might be a fit.

Also it wasn't a private room there was another guy in it. This other patient had kids pictures I don't remember where, were they ever looked at?

The thing is, we didn't see him in any hospital room after Susan left that day. What happened after that is complete mystery. The room he was in was a large open ward. There was at least one other patient there, but there were several beds, which indicates that Michael didn't have an outside source to pay for his room, but only up to that point. I suppose it could have been a city hospital, but that wouldn't explain the portraits of soldiers on the walls.

Now if he were at a VA hospital, and I'm not saying VA healthcare is bad, just slow, he might want to transfer to a private hospital if possible. With top specialists and treatments that the VA can't provide, he might recover more quickly. He was to have numerous surgeries followed by therapy for a year. I can well imagine scenarios where private healthcare could speed recovery. In fact, I've seen it first hand. It takes forever to get surgeries scheduled that are not emergencies. In a private healthcare setting they're ready before you are.

Why was Michael in the hospital again ?

Did his flashback confirm how he received his injuries ?

He was struck by a car. He had just finished talking to Susan and found out that she was with Brian and that she wanted to move to Italy with Walt. Michael was upset hung up the phone and walked into traffic.

Ok I never really venture over to the character threads but I have to say this is a great thread shootfire Thanks for the redirect!!! I will have to spend a little more time here!!!:):)
your stuff is fantastic!!!

I was thinking that there had to be a reason 'Walt' was on the milk carton in EHH. All the other stuff was real stuff.
Combine that with the 7 years away from 'Walt' and "The human body is said to replace all of its cells every seven years." We used to say does that make you a new person every 7 yrs? So was it a clue?
So the Walt we know may be somebody else's missing child. No ideas on what happened to the real Walt if this is the case. It might be an explanation of why Susan felt no need to share the drawing with a child that was not Michael's. Yet she thought them worth saving

I was thinking that there had to be a reason 'Walt' was on the milk carton in EHH. All the other stuff was real stuff.
Combine that with the 7 years away from 'Walt' and "The human body is said to replace all of its cells every seven years." We used to say does that make you a new person every 7 yrs? So was it a clue?
So the Walt we know may be somebody else's missing child. No ideas on what happened to the real Walt if this is the case. It might be an explanation of why Susan felt no need to share the drawing with a child that was not Michael's. Yet she thought them worth saving

I don't think cells replacing themselves really mean that you aren't the same person. The cells are still coming from the same dna. I do think that the milk carton meant something though. I think it probably means that Hurley was having a precognitive dream, but that he probably didn't know how to process the information.

Back to the hospital, the drawing of the guy with the birthday cake 7 candles. Do we ever see the guy in the other bed? There is picture of children on his wall. Could be it was one of the kids birthday and they celebrating it in the hospital. Would be interesting see if we run into these kids again and if they aged appropriately

I don't think cells replacing themselves really mean that you aren't the same person. The cells are still coming from the same dna. I wasn't going that deep. Just that it might be a hint to a switch
(The real Walt and Susan are hanging out with Christian in another hatch:rolleyes: )

We are really seeing a lot of growth in Michael

Back to the hospital, the drawing of the guy with the birthday cake 7 candles. Do we ever see the guy in the other bed? There is picture of children on his wall. Could be it was one of the kids birthday and they celebrating it in the hospital. Would be interesting see if we run into these kids again and if they aged appropriately

I don't think cells replacing themselves really mean that you aren't the same person. The cells are still coming from the same dna. I wasn't going that deep. Just that it might be a hint to a switch
(The real Walt and Susan are hanging out with Christian in another hatch:rolleyes: )

We are really seeing a lot of growth in Michael

OHHHH!! Ok, I thought there must be something there I was misunderstanding. :wink3:
I just watched that part of special again. We do see the guy in the other bed from a distance. He looks kind of heavy set to me. I didn't see the picture of the children though. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place. Do you have a screencap? I also noticed there was no traction rig over the other guy's bed. I couldn't tell if he was wearing a cast. It also occurred to me that Michael might have been visualizing Brian suffering from his own predicament though. Perhaps he was hoping something bad would happen to Brian? He seemed to have a lot of anger toward him in that scene. :biggrin:

Are there other shots of Michael in the hospital in another episode? I remember seeing one with dodads behind his bed on the wall and another one of the other guys bed there was a visitor on the left and the pictures were on the far right wall don't remember if patient was in the bed.

Are there other shots of Michael in the hospital in another episode? I remember seeing one with dodads behind his bed on the wall and another one of the other guys bed there was a visitor on the left and the pictures were on the far right wall don't remember if patient was in the bed.

This is the best screencap I was able to find of the room.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=27143&fullsize=1

I don't believe we ever saw Michael in the hospital except in Special.

Wait.. there's a theory now that Walt might not be Michael's child? Wow....

This is the best screencap I was able to find of the room.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=27143&fullsize=1

I don't believe we ever saw Michael in the hospital except in Special.The question also is why would they remove these, they were there
view of Michaels bed
http://www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special12.jpg
Picture I was talking about but it cant be expanded
www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special11.jpg

just thowing this in because I had seen zebra stripes somewhere else
www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special10.jpg

The question also is why would they remove these, they were there
view of Michaels bed
http://www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special12.jpg
Picture I was talking about but it cant be expanded
www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special11.jpg

just thowing this in because I had seen zebra stripes somewhere else
www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special10.jpg

Coupons, I must say I'm intrigued, but your links don't work. :frown:

http://www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special12.jpg
http://www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special11.jpg
http://www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special10.jpg

http://www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special12.jpg
http://www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special11.jpg
http://www.harsh-light.com/special/images/special10.jpg

They still don't work. I'm getting a 404 error.

http://www.harsh-light.com/special/extras.php
scroll to bottom of page note zebra mobile

OK, the links work now. They're promo pics, not from the actual episode. I'm going to have to watch again to see if there was a visitor in the actual epi. I don't think there was though. I still can't see a picture of children.:frown: I'll play with the image and see what I can come up with.

Earlier we were discussing the possibility of Michael having been in the military. I believe what started it was when Jack asked him if he knew how to use it. Most us heard him reply Yes, Sir. However in re-watching the episode tonight, I thought he said "guess so". If he did answer "guess so", it changes the perception of that scene. One other note is that he was handed a Shot Gun which the military, at least when I was in, doesn't use or train personnel to use.

I also liked the fact that Michael is being shown in a different light. Nost just as an angry man. His willingness to put himself on the line for Sawyer in an earlier episode and then tonight in attempting to help Sayid show him to be a loyal and true friend.

Earlier we were discussing the possibility of Michael having been in the military. I believe what started it was when Jack asked him if he knew how to use it. Most us heard him reply Yes, Sir. However in re-watching the episode tonight, I thought he said "guess so". If he did answer "guess so", it changes the perception of that scene. One other note is that he was handed a Shot Gun which the military, at least when I was in, doesn't use or train personnel to use.

I also liked the fact that Michael is being shown in a different light. Nost just as an angry man. His willingness to put himself on the line for Sawyer in an earlier episode and then tonight in attempting to help Sayid show him to be a loyal and true friend.

I don't believe the military does train people with shotguns. A shotgun is a relatively easy weapon to use, especially if you have been trained on something like an M-16. BTW, I'm also wondering where Jack got his skillz. :biggrin: He's always asking if people know how to handle weapons, but nobody ever got his resume. How many spinal surgeons have tatoos again? But I digress...

The idea that Michael may have been in the military didn't initially spring from Michael's knowing how to use weapons. It came from the hospital where he was admitted. Most hospitals do not have old pictures of soldiers/military officers hanging on the walls of the corridors. That seems far more appropriate in a military/VA hospital. The fact that Michael can handle a variety of weapons serves only as supporting evidence. I viewed "yes sir" as further evidence. I'll have to watch it again myself to be sure, but we weren't the only ones who heard "yes sir." That's the way it is in the transcripts at lost-tv and losthatch.com as well. I'd be interested in hearing what closed captioning said too.

Anyway, my point about the weapons is that once you have mastered certain weapons, using different ones, like a shotgun, isn't much of a challenge. I don't think it's particularly telling that it happened to be a shotgun in the scene. I suppose Michael could have been a street thug, but I doubt that. He did actually shoot the shark with the 9 mm, and not Sawyer, in the dark. I would say he's probably a pretty good shot. Most street thugs don't live to be very good marksmen. My theory is that that's why so many people are hit by stray bullets when gang violence and drive-bys happen. They're lousy shots. :wink3: Thugs have to be practically standing in front of you to achieve any accuracy, which is why when someone is killed execution style these days, it usually means partly that the victim was shot at close range. Besides, I think for Michael to have been a street thug would really be a bit too cliche.

Closed Caption said: Guess so.

The reason I don't think it was a VA hospital is because I have spent quite a bit of time in a few. Michael would not have needed Susan's money to pay for his medical expenses if Michael was a veteran. Veteran's are treated on an ability to pay schedules unless they have a service connected injury in which case it's free.

You are aboslutely correct a shotgun is relatively easy to use point fire and watch out for the recoil. Michael just doesn't seem military to me. I'm not saying he couldn't be, I just doubt it.

And yes that is a great question, How does Jack a surgeon, the son of a surgeon, know so much about guns?

I see enough street thugs to know thier problem is that they can't look cool firing the gun properly. They don't grip it they just hold it like a wet noodle and the bullets fly everywhere. Michael is no street thug.

This is new to me, posting in the character forums. Forgive me for jumping in in the middle. 2 things:

1. perhaps the military pix on the walls is due to bad set-up. they film in Hawaii, where many of the hospitals are military. maybe they filmed in such a hospital, thus explaining the miliarty pix

2. as to michael's military background, i agree, coupon, that he wasn't military. however, he has some expertise in odd areas. he knows about blast doors (yeah, he was in construction but how many blast doors are included in high-rise buildings in manhattan?) and he apparently knows something about computers (last night's epi of him noodling around with the computers shows he has some knowledge of the set-up of computers). don't know what all that adds up to, but he is much more than a failed artist/construction worker.

Closed Caption said: Guess so.

The reason I don't think it was a VA hospital is because I have spent quite a bit of time in a few. Michael would not have needed Susan's money to pay for his medical expenses if Michael was a veteran. Veteran's are treated on an ability to pay schedules unless they have a service connected injury in which case it's free.

You are aboslutely correct a shotgun is relatively easy to use point fire and watch out for the recoil. Michael just doesn't seem military to me. I'm not saying he couldn't be, I just doubt it.

And yes that is a great question, How does Jack a surgeon, the son of a surgeon, know so much about guns?

I see enough street thugs to know thier problem is that they can't look cool firing the gun properly. They don't grip it they just hold it like a wet noodle and the bullets fly everywhere. Michael is no street thug.

I guess for me it could go either way. I understand your argument about the VA hospital completely. I suppose I just have a different take on it. Example: My father-in-law had a test at the VA yesterday. He has been trying to get that test done for over a year. Now there is a procedure that he needs, but because it isn't considered an "emergency," meaning life or death, he will have to wait again. Quality of life issues just don't seem to be much of a priority. He just retired in the last few years and it has kind of been a culture shock for him. In the past he has had private care, and never had to wait more than a month for anything.

This is new to me, posting in the character forums. Forgive me for jumping in in the middle. 2 things:

1. perhaps the military pix on the walls is due to bad set-up. they film in Hawaii, where many of the hospitals are military. maybe they filmed in such a hospital, thus explaining the miliarty pix

2. as to michael's military background, i agree, coupon, that he wasn't military. however, he has some expertise in odd areas. he knows about blast doors (yeah, he was in construction but how many blast doors are included in high-rise buildings in manhattan?) and he apparently knows something about computers (last night's epi of him noodling around with the computers shows he has some knowledge of the set-up of computers). don't know what all that adds up to, but he is much more than a failed artist/construction worker.

Honbun, welcome to the character boards!
You make a good point about the military hospitals in HI. It's quite possible that is what happened. Still, I have to wonder. I've seen photos and paintings from the same time period (Victorian or Edwardian) in other flashbacks as well. It may be something that is never answered because it really isn't important. It's just one of those head scratcher things I guess...:biggrin:

I agree he is much more than a failed artist/construction worker. He's just such a puzzle. I've gone over screencaps from Special looking specifically for a computer, but I haven't found one yet. He just seems terribly straight-laced compared to many of the other lostaways, like he has a strict sense of morality that is lacking in others. I think Jack has a similar moral code, it's just that he doesn't seem as sure about what he believes.

I guess for me it could go either way. I understand your argument about the VA hospital completely. I suppose I just have a different take on it. Example: My father-in-law had a test at the VA yesterday. He has been trying to get that test done for over a year. Now there is a procedure that he needs, but because it isn't considered an "emergency," meaning life or death, he will have to wait again. Quality of life issues just don't seem to be much of a priority. He just retired in the last few years and it has kind of been a culture shock for him. In the past he has had private care, and never had to wait more than a month for anything..

I know dealing with the VA system can be infuriating and when you are lucky enough to find a good doctor it can be great. It's totally hit and miss. I suggest your father-in-law join one of the service organizations such as VFW, American Legion or such. It helps to have advocates on your side who know how to deal with the bureaucracy. I wish him luck.



I agree he is much more than a failed artist/construction worker. He's just such a puzzle. I've gone over screencaps from Special looking specifically for a computer, but I haven't found one yet. He just seems terribly straight-laced compared to many of the other lostaways, like he has a strict sense of morality that is lacking in others. I think Jack has a similar moral code, it's just that he doesn't seem as sure about what he believes.

I find this one of the many interesting aspects of Michael's character and a great job by the creative team. They didn't create a stereotype they have developed him as a real person with good qualities and intelligence as well as faults.

LBL, after seeing 23rd Psalm, I was all set to come in here and capitulate. :biggrin: Michael was never in the military. Then, another poster in a different thread suggested that they believed the whole shooting lesson was a ruse for Michael to get his hands on the guns. This other poster suggested that Michael's first shot hitting it's mark was too good. I don't know about that. He seemed pretty close to his target, but I found it odd that Locke said something about birds not shooting back. I'm sure he was talking about the Others being armed, but I tend to think most things Locke says have double meanings so....There was also something in Michael's stare at the end of that scene that made me feel that it could still be true. So I'm not ready to say uncle yet!!!! :24::smile:

No need to say uncle. Until a definitive answer is given all speculation is still in play.

I've begun to wonder if Michael has the sickness. I believe that he is either imagining the whole conversation with Walt of that Walt is using his powers to communicate. I don't believe the computers is able to send or recieve at this time. Many have speculated that the "Others" were setting trap for Michael. I disagree because they said Michael would never find them if they didn't want him to. Of course the plan may have been to get Jack out into the open give him the warning and take the guns but I doubt that too. Zeke did make a point of saying how Walt was special. I digress.

Back to Michael. At times he seems fine then he goes ballistic. I understand that he is concerned about Walt but he does seem a bit over the top. My bet is that he has the sickness.

No need to say uncle. Until a definitive answer is given all speculation is still in play.

I've begun to wonder if Michael has the sickness. I believe that he is either imagining the whole conversation with Walt of that Walt is using his powers to communicate. I don't believe the computers is able to send or recieve at this time. Many have speculated that the "Others" were setting trap for Michael. I disagree because they said Michael would never find them if they didn't want him to. Of course the plan may have been to get Jack out into the open give him the warning and take the guns but I doubt that too. Zeke did make a point of saying how Walt was special. I digress.

Back to Michael. At times he seems fine then he goes ballistic. I understand that he is concerned about Walt but he does seem a bit over the top. My bet is that he has the sickness.

Oh, I hope not.

I have always thought that when Michael gets irrational, it's related to weird things going on around him. Sure, he's gotten angry about things, but the irrational thing we have seen before too. It seems to really get under his skin, like he has a history with weird things happening. He did it when Brian said that Walt was different. He did it when Locke said Walt was different. He did it again after his "computer" conversations with Walt. It really bugs me that he told Locke that he knew what everybody was thinking, that he was going to go running off after Walt again. Paranoia? Or was everyone really thinking that?

Back to Michael. At times he seems fine then he goes ballistic. I understand that he is concerned about Walt but he does seem a bit over the top. My bet is that he has the sickness.

My bet is that it has to do with Walt. His son had been snatched from his hands. And less than ten days later, believes that he may have contacted Walt.

People are irrational when it comes to their children. Why does society expect parents to behave in a rational manner, if their children might be in trouble or danger?

My bet is that it has to do with Walt. His son had been snatched from his hands. And less than ten days later, believes that he may have contacted Walt.

People are irrational when it comes to their children. Why does society expect parents to behave in a rational manner, if their children might be in trouble or danger?

Fish1941, you have a good point. I know I'd be going nuts too, and probably would have raided the armory a long time ago. If nobody wanted to sit down with me and work out a plan, I'd take off without them too. Every second that Walt is out of sight would be agony for a parent.

All the same, Michael has acted irrationally in the past in response to weapons and weird things happening. Sawyer was all great as Michael pulled him up onto the raft after losing the rudder, that is until Michael saw the gun. Same thing with the knife. It was bad enough that he was tagging along behind Locke, but the fact that he was letting Walt handle a knife kind of made Michael wig out.

That said, weirdness has a similar effect on him as it does on Jack. Jack gets pretty irrational when something happens that he can't explain as well.