You can totally tell that this Michael episode was a last minute rush job. It was boring, hardly anything was revealed and it was totally recapping everything for the thousandth time. Gosh I love LOST too much, which is why this is really pissing me off.

We're all huge LOST fans but be honest and let's talk about what a drag this ep was...Sadly.

What are you talking about? The back story was kinda blah, but the revelations were fantastic. You must have passed out....the gift, the shark logo, the shot at kate....the conversation with Locke, the tick marks on the wall.....

What show were you watching?!?!?!?

I have to agree. Ending two episodes in a row with the exact same hatch cliffhanger is an insult to our patience. The Michael flashback paralleling his stages of mourning for Walt's abduction was good, but people are understandably fixated on the hatch at this point.

If it were me, I would've left the fate of the raft people up in the air for one more episode, and made this a Locke episode entirely dealing with the hatch. Okay, maybe one quick scene at the very end to reassure the womenfolk that Sawyer is still alive. :)

Jeremy

I don't know what you're talking about.
We learned that Desmond is down there doing...um...something.
And now we know all about Michael losing Walt...even though...nothing new..or interesting.. was revealed.
We know why Locke took his shoes off when entering the hatch!...crap, no we don't.
Well...damn.

I know exactly what you're talking about.

Thank God for next week. Revelations!

:chair:
:rolleye1:

Well I'm sure most of us are aware at this point that the epiosde was originally shot as a Sawyer episode...and was only recently changed.

Although I enjoyed the island stuff...I think it was painfully obvious that the flashbacks were pointless. Also the island stuff seemed more focused on Sawyer than Michael...He was the more sympathetic figure in most of the scenes...and they seemed to be more from his point of view. There were so many parts in which I kept thinking it would be the perfect place for HIM to have a flashback...

I agree, 80% of this episode what to fill in the gap from before. Kind of irritating and I don't think they've ever backtracked like that before....

On a radio show yesterday (Tuesday) here in SE Michigan, one of the writers promised that next week's episode would be one of the most profound of the season. Yes, the first 2 have been great and he acknowledged that they would spawn a whole round of speculation, however, the next one is supposed to provide some serious insight.....the energy source, Locke's change (whatever that means), and something about the numbers.....we'll see.....

I actually agree as well. This episode revealed some things but then again it didn't reveal much at all. You waste 5 mins of total screen time just so we can see that kate heard the conversation? They made it seem like they would go past the point of Jack saying "You" but they didn't they cut it off. I was a bit disappointed at that. And they wanted us to seem very surprised that he was typing in the numbers on the computer DUH!

What are you talking about? The back story was kinda blah, but the revelations were fantastic. You must have passed out....the gift, the shark logo, the shot at kate....the conversation with Locke, the tick marks on the wall.....

What show were you watching?!?!?!?

No, I didn't pass out. The backstory wasn't "blah," there was no backstory. We knew all that. There were hardly any revelations. The gift? Big deal. We've seen the comic book with that wild animal already. The logo on the shark was the only thing that was semi-startling but it's not worth the whole episode. The shot at Kate? Desmond did NOT know Kate was there and there's no way you can even prove that. Right now all we know is that Desmond was just showing Jack he meant business.

I thought the backtracking in the hatch was a bit disappointing but other than that I really liked this episode. Then again, that might've been because I was worried about Sawyer. ;) I hadn't heard that this was supposed to be Sawyer's flashback episode. For some reason I thought it was Locke's turn. IMDb must've been wrong or I read it wrong.

I thought the raft scenes were very boring, mostly Sawyer and Michael arguing about whose fault it was. Blah...

Hatch scenes were very well put together, though, so that kept it entertaining for me.

I actually agree as well. This episode revealed some things but then again it didn't reveal much at all. You waste 5 mins of total screen time just so we can see that kate heard the conversation? They made it seem like they would go past the point of Jack saying "You" but they didn't they cut it off. I was a bit disappointed at that. And they wanted us to seem very surprised that he was typing in the numbers on the computer DUH!

Agree. It was interesting to see the hatch story from a diffrent perspective, but I think that could have been put into last week's show, maybe by making it 90 minutes.

I also didn't really buy all the anger that Michael was directing at Sawyer at the beginning. I know Michael is a hot-head, but he certainly could see that Sawyer had been shot. Oh and also, that Sawyer had just saved Michael's life. The line about "you wouldn't know what it's like to lose someone you care about" was just way harsh.

I agree that the writers may have been killing some time, but it is quite possible that they are reiterating key points and reinforcing them. So, you knew that he gave him the polar bear, you knew that Kate was in the air shaft, you knew why he turned the radio up, you knew that he had a convo with Locke? C'mon....

The writers/prodcers are not going to give it all up that easy....ratings are smoking hot. We'll get a health dose of filler until people express some extreme frustration and that is not likely for a while.

While some new facts came to light, the episode dragged dramatically and the parts were edited together quite poorly. I did enjoy seeing Locke being the cool Machiavellian in dealing with Desmond, and I liked Kate's pausing to take the candy bars, but the episode crawled by. Usually it's ten minutes before an episode ends before I even look at the clock, but I couldn't believe how much time was left at several moments.

Cardie

I don't know what you're talking about.
We learned that Desmond is down there doing...um...something.
And now we know all about Michael losing Walt...even though...nothing new..or interesting.. was revealed.
We know why Locke took his shoes off when entering the hatch!...crap, no we don't.
Well...damn.

I know exactly what you're talking about.

Thank God for next week. Revelations!

Okay, so we don't know what the heck is up with Desmond. Yet.

The backstory was pretty dull overall, but it set up a nice little "aww, dayum.. Mike's crying" scene.

Locke took his shoes off so he wouldn't make any noise from his footsteps!

I thought this episode was great, even if the backstory wasn't the best. I especially liked Kate's little add-ins; finding the chocolate bars and stuffing ten of 'em in her pockets, and the look on her face when she was in the crawlspace when the music came on was priceless.

Raft scenes were quite dull.

Hatch scenes felt like a rerun.

Flashback told us NOTHING new at all.

Although, I did enjoy watching Desmond and Locke talk, type, and play with guns, that scene was only 5 minutes long.

Oh, and Charlie really took the heroine. Yeah...

I enjoyed the episode. I liked that the hatch scenes were told from a different angle, and we got some answers about stuff people have been speculating on from the past week (where does he get food, artificial sunlight/blinds, whose shoes, where's kate, etc, etc.). I somehow managed to miss the first shark attack, the freaking commercials ran long (for some radio station commercial). I knew I missed something important... looks like I'll have to get a digital copy. I swear, I was about to throw my remote through the tv:mad: . Crazy cliffhanger and next week looks like the big payoff, the episode looks bananas.

I have to agree that this episode was not very good. Just a bit o'filler for the next episodes. The flashbacks didn't really reveal anything except the stuffed polar teddy. The raft scenes really weren't that exciting except for the flash of the "symbol" on the shark, which made me sit up for a sec and the hatch stuff was interesting but I was annoyed it didn't advance. I don't mind backtracking if it advances the story, in this case it didn't.

My thoughts, the writers of the show had two story threads they needed to address ASAP from last season. After the season finale the main gripe from the fans was they didn't reveal enough. My opinion is MOS/MOF and Adrift were probably meant to be either a two hour premiere or a two part episode, with the overall ending being Jack saying "you". I have no factual information to back this up, outside of this being the first episode where the timeline on the island covers a past episodes timeline. I found Adrift to be a really good episode, i love when the writers give insight to the little questions people have asked on this board for a week. ie. who's shoes did jack see(lockes), why did Locke take them off(they were wet and making alot of noise), were was Kate(playing the scapegoat so Locke could get answers), What was Desmond typing(the numbers), Who was screaming for Jack while the song was playing(Kate in the vent shaft). I'm sure there are other little questions answered that i'm forgetting. My real question is, how did Jin make it back to the Island so much quicker then Sawyer and Michael.

well thats it for my first post.

Justin

I totally expected a slower episode after last week's lightning-paced one. I liked seeing what happened in the hatch (filling in "lost" island time is something new for the writers and I appreciated that). I figured the raft scenes would be pretty simple, and they were. There's nothing wrong with simplicity. The blame game was slow, but what else would you expect them to do? And yes, the fbs were nothing special (no pun intended ;)), but they served their purpose. Micheal :heart: Walt.


But say what you want, that ending kicked a$$! :biggrin:

I actually quite liked this episode, but the entire time I kept thinking, "There are going to be a lot of people screaming for ANSWERS!!!when this is over." Which is fine. Personally, I enjoy being in suspense. The raft scenes were amusing ("Get off my raft!" LOL), and I actually would've liked to see more of the ep focused on the 'adrift' people (the cutting between the two plotlines was kinda choppy). But I found both plotlines interesting and exciting, and I guess they served to set up next week well.


I also didn't really buy all the anger that Michael was directing at Sawyer at the beginning. I know Michael is a hot-head, but he certainly could see that Sawyer had been shot. Oh and also, that Sawyer had just saved Michael's life. The line about "you wouldn't know what it's like to lose someone you care about" was just way harsh.

I thought it was believable; he'd just lost his son, and Sawyer was the easy target. But yeah, I thought that line was pretty ham-fisted (because Sawyer has lost everyone he cares about....yeah, we get it).

I actually quite liked this episode, but the entire time I kept thinking, "There are going to be a lot of people screaming for ANSWERS!!!when this is over." Which is fine.

LOST never reveals a FINAL answer. All the "answers" are mere gateways to more questions. I knew that I wouldn't be getting an actual answer, especially if I didn't last week

Nobody expects final answers, but we DO expect the story to ADVANCE.

I also thought it dragged at times. The raft scenes with the constant fighting...once was enough. It took them forever to call for Jin and I thought that was poor.
The hatch scenes not seen last week were ok and laughed when Kate took the candy bars and shoved them in her jeans.
As to the Michael flashbacks---------BOOOOOOOORRRRRINGGGG! Harold Perrineau is an excellent actor but if someone has to die this season.........please let it be Michael. His character I find boring in genreal.

Thank God someone said it. I wanted michael to die last season ha ha. I can't stand his character.

I thought this was a pretty good episode. What did we get?

We see Desmond's not sure who he's waiting for down there, and doesn't appear to know the people on the island (we'll have to see if he remembers Jack)
We see Sawyer and Michael being circled by a shark with the same emblem thats on all the supplies in the hatch tattooed on its tail
We see the numbers used to reset some type of countdown clock
WE SEE THE OTHERS!!
Michael gave walt a stuffed polar bear

Not the best episode every, but it wasn't as bad as the season 1 finale :biggrin:

We didn't learn anything about Michael from his flashback that we didn't already know. He loves Walt, and he didn't want to give him up. We knew that. It didn't have to be re-iterated and dragged on for an entire flashback. Season 1 really set the bar for this show as being full of surprises, twists, and moving along pretty fast, and this episode didn't come close to revealing much of big interest. The polar bear teddy is a nice treat, but little things like that are in every episode, so its nothing more than stuff that should have been expected.

Thank God someone said it. I wanted michael to die last season ha ha. I can't stand his character.

Michael is the character...You wanted Michael's character to die?

Or you do you want Harold Perrineau, the actor, to die because you can't stand his character?

.... Season 1 really set the bar for this show as being full of surprises, twists, and moving along pretty fast....


To be fair I remember A LOT of people moaning half way through season 1 about it slowing down and dragging on a bit.

perhaps the writers heard all that and are trying to keep the pace this season more even - more controlled. This way there really wont be that same lull again halfway through.

Not the best episode every, but it wasn't as bad as the season 1 finale :biggrin:

The season one finale was waaaay better than this. Exodus had moments that made me gasp and drop my jaw. "The thing is, we're gonna have to take the boy." still creeps me out. And seeing the monster/black smoke stuff was something, too.

But I thought tonight's episode was predictable and Michael/Sawyer's nemesis of the episode (the shark) really didn't seem frightening at all. There was just nothing unexpected about this episode except for the number/computer/countdown.

I thought the episode wasn't bad. Was it 'edge-of-your-seat' like some of the other ones? No. But it did answer some questions that I've been itching over from the last one. I think that some of the smaller aspects made it worth it (Kate's moment with the chocolate was classic. Could you all not feel her satisfaction? :smile:) However, they managed to dance around some of the bigger issues again like why has Desmond been in a hole for God knows how long and what is the friggin deal with the numbers?!

Oh well, I guess there's always next week. ** 1/2 out of ****

** 1/2 out of ****

You are a generous man, my friend.

Although the worst episode of Lost is still better than 90% of all TV.

To be fair I remember A LOT of people moaning half way through season 1 about it slowing down and dragging on a bit.

perhaps the writers heard all that and are trying to keep the pace this season more even - more controlled. This way there really wont be that same lull again halfway through.

You're right, I may be jumping the gun just because this one was so slow. I do recall a couple of episodes last season being kinda slow moving. This is still my least favorite episode, definitely my least favorite flashback.

Dangerdork, if that's the first and last post you ever make, you will have made more of an impact on me then half of these goons here at the Fuselage. I appluad you and your excellently crafted text.

I personally don't see that there HAVE to be revelations in every episode. Pieces to the puzzle yes - having them spelled out for you in black and white, no. In the last few shows, (including last season's ending), we've had a lot of questions answered, met the others, entered the hatch, watched Sawyer dig a bullet out of his shoulder with his fingers..

Not sure how much more you want in a few hours. One of my theories has been shot to pieces in the first two weeks of this season. Yeah, so I'm ready to start piecing together another and like the fact that Lost feeds them to me a bit at a time rather than posting a flashing billboard where everything is written in capital letters.

Shrug.

OK, so about four years ago, I decided that there was way too much crap on TV; cancelled my cable and unhooked my antenna. I still rent movies and dvds and HBO series, but have been network and cable TV-free for 4 years. Then, a couple weeks ago, a friend loaned me the DVDs of Lost. I was instantly hooked and watched the whole of season 1 in 2 sittings. Wow! I thought, good writing and decent acting on network TV!

I happened to be at a friend's to see Episode 1 of season 2, and then... after four years, I actually hooked up my antenna and cancelled other plans in order to watch a TV show.

I will NEVER make that mistake again.

Everybody has outlined very well why this episode sucked. Yes there was some good content and questions answered, but that could have been condensed into ten minutes tops (twenty five minutes of airtime including commercials).

Here's my addition to the general complaint and maybe a guess at WHY it was bad: Too much success causing lazy, committee writing. The show is SO popular and SO analyzed, I can just see in my head the creative team arguing with the producers who are arguing amongst themselves and the the tenuous compromises being vetoed by the network....

Since the show has become such a gigantic success, It's dollars to donuts that about a zillion new people have been given some editorial say in the direction of the story. And, as always happens, when a piece of fiction is produced by a committee instead of a single guiding vision or at most a small , tight-knit team of collaborators, you get lazy, uninspired, predictable, uninteresting writing.

Hardly anybody mentioned the interaction between Michael and Sawyer in this episode. Did we REALLY need ANOTHER character revived by CPR? How many times does sawyer need to be shot or stabbed or beaten up anyways? Those plot devices were dramatic the first time around, but now are just tired. And given the situation, would those two characters really spend all their time bickering childishly over whose fault it was?

It was an insult to the actors to put such lines in their mouths. It was an insult to the writers who developed these carefully well rounded characters to utilize them in such a shallow, melodramatic fashion simply to fill out an episode that was obviously creatively bankrupt.

Cheers for the few good bits that did make it into the show, mostly the slivers of new material from the bunker, and the cliffhanger ending - which may itself become cliché sooner rather than later.

I wonder what the Sawyer backstory was. And I wonder if the new unseen powers that be who are guiding the ship called LOST will continue this new philosophy of not taking risks, not exploring uncharted territory, and after a detour into an exotic realm take us back to the same old destination, which none of us were interested in visiting.

Exactly my feelings, except you sound even more disappointed than I am. I hope you're not planning to give up on the show just yet! :)

Really, there were quite a few revelations. To get into this show you have to analyze everything. Most of the revelations werent even center stage.

We now have a pretty good idea what the numbers mean, if not neccessarily what they count down to, we know an organization is behind the hatch and the man inside, if not all the people on the island. We have a reintroduction of philosophical thought into the show.

The backstory was mostly pointless, but it was nice to see Michael have center stage again. I always argued that he wasnt used far enough.

Really, there were quite a few revelations. To get into this show you have to analyze everything. Most of the revelations werent even center stage.

We now have a pretty good idea what the numbers mean, if not neccessarily what they count down to, we know an organization is behind the hatch and the man inside, if not all the people on the island. We have a reintroduction of philosophical thought into the show.

The backstory was mostly pointless, but it was nice to see Michael have center stage again. I always argued that he wasnt used far enough.

Yeah, I did like that some things were answered in this episode. But I was looking for something more shocking than what we got, like the light behind the window being just a light behind the window, or the shoes being Locke's. I still have no clue what the numbers mean, I just know now more than before that they have a big relevance. :p

I really enjoyed this episode. I'm sorry for anyone who did not see the beauty and the subtle character work being played out here. I know after last seasons finale alot of folks are wanting fast answers and a lot more story. This show was just not about big revelations, the show was about going back and re-inforcing WHY Mike loves his son so much, and WHY he is so distraught at losing him AGAIN. This is very important because he cannot face The Others alone, and he will need people like Sawyer and Jin, Jack, Locke and Desmond to help him get Walt back.

There is going to be an unbreakable bond between Sawyer, Mike, and Jin by the time they get back to the original survivors I think. Sawyer actually CARED about saving Michael, which made his comments to Sawyer that much more acidic.

Not everyone watching the series saw every epsiode of last season. My girlfriend, for instance, did not Mike's backstory that well. She was riveted. Did anyone else notice the room they had the little legal pow wow in, where they asked Mike to sign away his child looked just like the room where they asked CLAIRE to sign away her unborn child?? I thought that was a big deal. I know it may not be the same exact room, but it sure did look close. (Imagine Mike's ex not actually being dead, but having been KIDNAPPED by these people, and she is part of this experiment, and the reason they went to Rome, and the reason she took him to Amsterdam is because she KNEW people were coming after him, as Claire did)

The writers had to deal with a bunch of things happening at the same time where the hatch was concerned, but we certainly did learn something new, and the stakes of the confrontation were amped up because of what we saw. The only method for doing this would be telling a story through fractured time structures, which I think plays into the series in other ways we don't get yet.

Last week, when Desmond fire the wanring shot, no big deal, this week it was breath taking. Knowing Jack was coming to the hatch gave the conversation with Desmond and Lock an urgency for us the viewer that Locke didn't have. But Locke was trying to gain Desmond's trust as quickly as possible, and nearly did.

Anyway, I came away from this weeks episode with a lot more story and character points to chew on and think about. If you start looking at this show as "Gimme, gimme, gimme" you will probably be disappointed a lot. This is a show that is very much about what you take away from it, not what is given to you.

Noeland--------------------------------

Wow...this episode really really dragged!

I agree it did have its moments but come on!

Let's see what could have been gone from this episode and still tell the total 3 minutes of story we got from this episode...

Locke descending into the hatch. Saw it last week.

Jack loading the gun while Hurley said "are you crazy?" Saw it last week.

Yeah, basically any scene we saw from last week...

I got the feeling that I just saw a 60 minute version of a "Previously on Lost."

Not good!

By the way, the dialogue between Michael and Sawyer played out very real for me. I have been with a person after thier child was taken, and the lose ALL focus, they lose ALL clairty of thought and are so angry, paniced, and filled with hopelessness they will turn on anyone close to them verbally and lash out. I'm not kidding, they will spew out the most cliched stuff you have ever heard. The biggest one is "YOU DON'T KNOW." It was brilliant writing because they kept it simple, and they kept it real.

And this is basically the third time Michael's son has been taken away from him. He's going to be a real ******* for a good long time because he has to cope with the emotions somehow. Sawyer wasn't gonna leave him. The dumbest thing he did was pop those bullets out of the magazine. But again, I have seen people, smart people, do really stupid things during high pressure life and death moments. It does happen.

Michael hates Sawyer otherwise, and didn't realize Sawyer had saved his life. He's not going to feel grateful at first because he is filled with negative emotions about the very traumatic events that just took place.

Njc--------------------

I want the character to die. Lord the man playing him is a good actor, ha ha i would never wish for anyone to die in real life that would make me a really sick person. I liked this episode and Kate went back for Jack YAY>

Did she? I figured she was just trying to escape by whatever means possible.

We just can't seem to escape the flashbacks!!!

I agree about the flashbacks - they are interesting to get to know a character, but I feel that most of the second flashback episodes (except probably Locke's) have been boring - we know a lot about the characters now and I'd rather see what is happening on the island! I agree that this episode was lame - the amount of footage they repeated exactly from last week was really surprising (e.g. Jack and Hurley's conversation).

The majority of the episode was more philosophical in theme. We were being reminded of the theme here, such things like the badmitton pieces have been missing for a while.

They have to reinstal the philosophy before getting into the meat of it.

Well I'm sure most of us are aware at this point that the epiosde was originally shot as a Sawyer episode...and was only recently changed.

Although I enjoyed the island stuff...I think it was painfully obvious that the flashbacks were pointless. Also the island stuff seemed more focused on Sawyer than Michael...He was the more sympathetic figure in most of the scenes...and they seemed to be more from his point of view. There were so many parts in which I kept thinking it would be the perfect place for HIM to have a flashback...

How do we know this? And why did they change it? Is there a thread somewhere?

-at least you got to watch tonights episode, i rushed home to watch it only to find that all local channels were knocked out!!!!we have a fire burning near by. so i sat there for an hour waiting for the fuzz to go away, alas... it did not!! ive got to leave this site now before i cheat and find out what happened, a friend taped it for me:ohwell:

Oh...and I agree this episode was a snoozer.

I thought the whole episode was really good except for the flashbacks, unless there's something I'm missing (which is very possible) then we didn't learn anything new. However, the rest was totally suspensful and fun to me anyway.

You know what annoyed me more than the episode's pacing and content?

The percentage of commercials.

I found the link regardin gthe change between sawyer and Mike:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=19493

I noticed there were a lot of commercials too. I wasn't sure if it was just me or not since I had been watching it on DVD and taped, and it's the only show I've tuned into in a long time. Makes me want to get a tivo.

I hope this isn't the "jump the shark" episode.

hahahahaha...sorry couldn't resist.

i agree, except for the end and locke and desmond talking it sucked

I agree with everyone else this was the worst episode I have seen yet. The entire michael story was done previously and so was most of the tunnel scenes. My only problem is my vcr cut of the last few minutes of what happened. I saw Michael and Sawyer start to paddle for the Island then the tape stopped. So if anyone could clue me in I would be appreciative. Thanks

P.S. I also would not be upset if michael died his charachter is very boring he needs to either die or have something big happen

I agree with everyone else this was the worst episode I have seen yet. The entire michael story was done previously and so was most of the tunnel scenes. My only problem is my vcr cut of the last few minutes of what happened. I saw Michael and Sawyer start to paddle for the Island then the tape stopped. So if anyone could clue me in I would be appreciative. Thanks

P.S. I also would not be upset if michael died his charachter is very boring he needs to either die or have something big happen
They paddle back to the island and Sawyer says, "We're home," (or something to that effect-----that and "What are gonna do, splash me?" were some of the few great lines) and Jin comes running out from among the trees, his arms tied behind him with a bamboo stick wedged in the tie------yelling in Korean and finally gets out the words, "others". Camera cuts to tree line and you see people walking toward them, some caring what looks like clubs or bamboo sticks.

OK, so about four years ago, I decided that there was way too much crap on TV; cancelled my cable and unhooked my antenna.

And yet the Internet is a shining beacon of quality? :biggrin:

Different strokes for different folks. My only complaint about tonight's episode was the ratio of commercials to actual show time. It felt like they added a good 10 minutes of commercial breaks to the show tonight.

Good god, if ABC needs money that bad, I'll send them a check.

Otherwise, I think those that were disappointed, set themselves up to be disappointed. Not every episode is going to be a thrill a minute, OH MY GOD episode, it's just not realistic to expect.

The flashbacks, while boring, made ME wonder "Why didn't Michael fight back?" Sure, he hired that lawyer, but everytime he had an opportunity to stick up for himself in the custody battle, he simply backed down. If that lawyer had started asking me why I didn't know my son's first words, I would have told her why, not sat there frustrated and mute.

It showed what Michael went through in giving up his son, presumably forever. It showed that even though he was nervous at the prospect of having to raise this boy by himself, after 10 years of never seeing him, he was going to do all he could to make it work.

The flashbacks showed what was going on in his mind, not what his motivations were at the moment, like some other flashbacks will do for other characters. Walt was on his mind, and this is WHY it weighs so heavily on the mind of a man who chose to give up his paternal rights to this child. Many men would have put it behind them, but Michael apparently still kicks himself every day for not fighting harder to keep Walt nearby and be there with him growing up.

The hatch flashbacks? I thought they did a good job of showing more of what happened than what we normall would get to see in ANY episode. Some pieces were put in just to re-establish the time line, like Hurley and Jack discussing Jack leaving for the Hatch.

Some pieces were shown entirely from the third person point of view, whereas, last week we only got to see them in the first person, namely Jack's, point of view. I appreciated the fresh take on what happened in the hatch between the time Locke descended and Jack found him behing held at gun point.

Quite a bit happened in those 10 - 15 minutes if you ask me. Locke was trying to gain Desmond's trust, Kate had been thrown in a storage locker, broke free and was trying to make a run for it, and Jack had been seen immediately upon entering the hatch...no wonder Desmond was able to take him by surprise.

It's well within anyone's rights to dislike an episode, but to trash it completely because you weren't thrilled with what they chose to do? Come on....give them a little slack here. You got some small answers and some new questions.

.

Good god, if ABC needs money that bad, I'll send them a check.


LMAO thanks that made me laugh. I totally agree. If you dont like the pacing, blame the frequent commercials. And thats out of the writers hands.

Yup. Locke, and Desmond was good. Especially seeing that Locke was dropped a few pegs when he wasn't "him". The other thing I found good was the tattoo on the shark's tail. Pretty interesting.

But, Michael's flashbacks? It didn't make me like the character any more, but had the opposite effect. It made me see him, and remember that this is IMHO, seem more narcissistic and selfish. He knew he had no real financial means to take care of Walt, but he still wanted it. Even though his girlfriend did have a job, he had already let her take Walt to Amsterdam for 14 months, had let her pay for all the medical stuff, it still had to be all about Michael.
Look. I can understand the emotions involved in these decisions. But, Michael should have looked at it from Walt's perspective. Michael still won't love Walt any less, but he'll be letting Walt become as much of his true potential as possible with his mom and Brian. It's better than a cardboard box in some back alley.

Anyway. Just my 2 cents. I do like that Michael has grown up, and matured. But, we really didn't need these flash backs. We could have learned a lot more about Sawyer. I would have loved to see the one on "not caring for another".

Do you think episode 3 will be the hatch from Kate's POV?

Although I am really liking the Desmond character/angle, and LOVED his scene with Locke, it totally revealed that Desmond is just a scared little prick and is NOT as badass as the first epsisode portrayed him as. We were left with the same Jack/Desmond cliffhanger, but what's there to worry about now? We know Desmond is NOT a badass and that Jack, Locke, and Kate will all be fine and will either force or take control of the the situation.

My biggest problem with the episode was the fact that last week they said you will know everyone's fate so I was looking forward to some information. I guess they should have worded it differently because by fate I am guessing they meant the three on the raft. Not much of a story line though.

OH yeah and thanks for filling me in on the last couple of minutes

I think this eppy really would have been ok if there had been a better flashback. The rest of the island stuff wouldn't have seemed as slow or repetative if Michael's FB could have held it's own. The Sawyer FB they originally intended to have also may have saved the day. This was possibly the most unnecessary FB of the series so far. Which brings up a problem with the format of the show. The producers seem to feel the need to throw in a flashback every week even if no new info is divulged and even when the characters aren't developed by it. This just seems like a waste of the viewers' time. While this eppy is most likely just a speed bump, boy what a disappointment after last week. Great final minute though!

According to that link that I found in one of the threads (sorry forgot where and who) TPTB did change the flashbacks in this epi from Sawyer to Michael. Why? Who knows but seems the nail was hit on the head. If the ABC desk junkies are gonna start writing the show......time to find something new for Wednesday nights cause they are gonna ruined it. I have the strong feeling that if the show had contained the Sawyer flashbacks, the pace would have been entirely different as would the scenes on the raft which no doubt had to be rewritten to match the flashbacks.

I don't expect huge revelations every show, in fact, don't want them. I love the mystery but this show just dragged for me with the Michael flashbacks perhaps because I find him the least interesting character. And then there was the pace in general.....the floating on the raft scenes could have had a little less "you did that-----no you did!" and more suspense with the shark or looking for Jin or seeing something in the distance or .....anything. Jin jumps in to save Sawyer and Michael complains that Sawyer is worried about him? Pa-leeeez!

And then there was the endless commericals. They have a hit show. Why do they now need to add soooooooooooooo many more commericals or did it just seem them way in this household?
So far this one has my vote for least favorite epi of Season Two.....and I didn't have a least favorite for Season One. Thought they all were great.

Okay, one of the best episodes written so far, in my opinion. I think the fate of the lostaways was revealed, just that no one came out and said "This is the fate of the lostways" does not mean it was not there. Michaels flashback scenes were brilliant and left me with quite a few questions I thought I answered in season 1. And not only were these answers annihilated, they brought up ten times more questions.

I got more excited with this episode than I did with 2:1. That was a little slower and a little more boring for me. This one rocked and had me on the edge of my seat with the details and nuances.

I have got to agree with the main post. If a freind says he missed this episode and asks you about it, tell him it had a lot of annoying yelling by Sawyer and Michael, a lot of gun-pointing by Desmond, and flashback that rehashed what we basically already knew about Michael.

There was about one minute of anything essential, that being Kate eats a candy bar, and the hunters at the very end. That stuff could have easily been folded into the next episode. This was the disposable episode. This has been such a brilliant show to this point, so I trust "Adrift" will be a one time anomally.

You can totally tell that this Michael episode was a last minute rush job. It was boring, hardly anything was revealed and it was totally recapping everything for the thousandth time. Gosh I love LOST too much, which is why this is really pissing me off.

We're all huge LOST fans but be honest and let's talk about what a drag this ep was...Sadly.
Sorry, Jet, but this eppy was no rush job. They were planning this eppy months ago.

This episode gave us more background on Michael and that was really good because it solidifies the bond between he and Walt. And, too, the ending was as exciting as the finale! It left us with a row of thug-looking wild people approaching our heros! What a cliff hanger!

Also, we got more of a hint on Desmond and why he's there. That riddle that he gave Locke is like what spies use to identify their contacts. If they can answer it correctly, then it's them. When Locke said he didn't know what Desmond was talking about, then Des knew he wasn't his contact. I think that gave us a hint that Desmond is working on some kind of a government project or secret mission. And judging my the stockpile of food in his pantry, it looks like he's been put there with the possibility of being there for a very long time.

I loved this eppy! :smile:

I think you might just be wanting answers too quickly. This series is going to pace itself and we need to realize that. If this were real life, they might have gone this long and not found anything. We're getting a lot in just 2 episodes. Try to be patient and just enjoy the ride. :biggrin:

Well I'm sure most of us are aware at this point that the epiosde was originally shot as a Sawyer episode...and was only recently changed.

Although I enjoyed the island stuff...I think it was painfully obvious that the flashbacks were pointless. Also the island stuff seemed more focused on Sawyer than Michael...He was the more sympathetic figure in most of the scenes...and they seemed to be more from his point of view. There were so many parts in which I kept thinking it would be the perfect place for HIM to have a flashback...
I do agree on one of your points, QueenE. When Michael told Sawyer that he had no idea what it felt like to care for someone, I was ready for a Sawyer flashback to show someone, anyone, that he had had an attachment to. We know that there has to have someone in his life that he's cared for other than his parents. I know there just has to be someone!

best way to state my opinion

These two episodes have just been weird. I kinda liked the running around the jungle. Maybe I'm more of an old fashioned movie/tv kinda girl where they dont' show anything but smoke and shadows to trick you and make you use your imagination. I still feel like too much has already been revealed.

Other than that...

I think that whoever said that the season premier could have been a 90 minute episode ending in the Jack seeing Desmond thing is right. I guess I just don't like the whole... "in the meantime" kinda thing

I am so SICK of people saying that I want answers too quickly and I set myself up for disappointment.

Hello?? Did you watch the episode? Last week's ended with the cliffhanger:

Jack realizes it's Desmond. Guns stay point. Jack stares..."You..."

So, silly me, I say to myself "I can't wait to see what happens next."

And it turns out, NOTHING. They rewound the world and we got back to the SAME SPOT. The story didn't advance! I mean, yes, it was KIND OF neat to see Locke do the whole computer deal, but all that will be explained in the next episode as well.

As for Michael's flashbacks...we already HAD the story of Walt being taken from him. All this did was cover a specific month of two of THAT event. It's like having a flashback episode of Jack planning is wedding and he's having doubts about marriage We KNOW he gets married. So, not only is the whole thing predictable, it's boring, too.

I'm sick of people saying to "You want answers too quickly" to everyone. I can't speak for everyone but I have followed the show since its inception, season premiere, etc....And you are still saying that we want answers too quickly? I'm very patient and came to the conclusion months ago that LOST wasn't even going to give me real answers to its amazing questions. Why? Because then the show would be OVER.

I was rather bored by this episode...the flashback gave no insights...the pacing dragged...the threat was defused. There was a lot of stuff from the first episode rehashed and the whole hatch thing didn't progress much except through the Locke and Kate point-of-views which could have easily been included in the first episode of the season.

I think it would have been better if it were a Sawyer flashback episode because the look on his face when Michael yelled about him never caring for anyone could have definitely lead into a flashback of someone Sawyer did care about. Now THAT would have made for an interesting flashback. Instead, we got "Michael losing Walt" retread.

Next week's show looks better. I am looking forward to it wiping this boring episode from my mind.

I thought it just didn't hang together this time. Michael's backstory alone may not have ruined it... but it didnt give us anything new. We already SAW that Walt was taken away by his mother, that Michael fought it, the whole nine yards. It's old news. The polar bear was a nice touch, but really, was it enough to justify the many minutes spent on elaborating on something we already knew?

From a storytelling standpoint, this backstory arc didn't NEED any more filling in, as some of the others do. What THAT backstory needs to cover more is the nature of Walt's mysterious "ability," whether his mother knew about it, whether Michael himself had any connection to or sense of it, and how that "specialness" connects Walt to the Island and the Others, which it almost certainly does.


I couldn't agree more. You mentioned many of the things I would have liked to have seen in another Michael flashback. Also I was wondering if they were going to followup on the car that hit Michael as there has been much speculation as to a connection with Kate and Locke's accidents. Just to much rehash in this flashback.

I'm very patient and came to the conclusion months ago that LOST wasn't even going to give me real answers to its amazing questions. Why? Because then the show would be OVER.


EXACTLY!! Thank you!!

EXACTLY!! Thank you!!


Spot on.

By the way, the dialogue between Michael and Sawyer played out very real for me. I have been with a person after thier child was taken, and the lose ALL focus, they lose ALL clairty of thought and are so angry, paniced, and filled with hopelessness they will turn on anyone close to them verbally and lash out. I'm not kidding, they will spew out the most cliched stuff you have ever heard. The biggest one is "YOU DON'T KNOW." It was brilliant writing because they kept it simple, and they kept it real....And that was the last moment where the interaction between Michael and Sawyer rang true. Because Sawyer got it. They were listening to each other, the way good characters do in interesting drama.

Then it was "how do we fill 25 more minutes of Michael and Sawyer on the raft at night?" Problem is, put ANY two characters in a confined space for a long enough time and the conflict has to be manufactured. All the bickering was boring because it was beneath them. We know Michael and Sawyer are more complex than that.

The flashbacks were so out of place, it makes me worry about the men at the helm, and whether they're trying to protect this wonderful world they've created. They had no storytelling value. In every other set of flashbacks on this show, the flashbacks meant something to the current problem on the island. These were more: "Let's show how upset Michael is." It doesn't play because there is no journey; there is no arc. Just "Michael is sad, see?"

Jin. Didn't Michael or Sawyer ONCE think: "Where's Jin?" They sure didn't ask it out loud during all that time together.

So much of the raft time could have been spent elsewhere advancing the plot and advancing the relationships. This episode seemed more like a data dump in the hatch -- and outside the hatch, a placeholder to kill time between the explosion and the next interesting plot line once the raftaways wash up on shore.

And is anyone else a litte ticked off that the writers have decided NOT to include each of the main cast in each episode as they have done almost religiously all throughout the first season? Sayid and Shannon weren't even seen in this episode, same for Sun. At least give them a line or two. The ensemble can't give way. It's too important to the quality of the show!

Ultimately, I was just so... underwhelmed. I will say, though, there were some interesting lines from Desmond, that answer a lot of questions I've had about the island. But man -- I've got to not just get answers. I want good characters, good drama. This episode was filler.

Sorry, y'all, but this vent was necessary. I really hope the producers are paying attention and will get the show back on track.

People are being much nicer in this thread than mine.

I'd also like to say that I wasn't expecting answers. In fact, I was more expecting quite the opposite, more mystery, more questions, more twists. We got a few, yes. We got some things answered too, some very uninteresting answers too btw. The light behind the window in the hatch being exactly that, the shoes being Locke's, these answers were so lame they might as well had been ignored entirely. I was just expecting something bigger, a twist to hook me in for this season.

As for the ending..

Them finding the people from the tail of the plane were no surprise. With the media hardly keeping it a secret over the summer, and the episode titles "Orientation" it was pretty predictable. I'm not saying its a bad idea. Sometimes things are predictable but you WANT them to happen because they'd be very interesting to see. But still, its not surprising at all. And yes, its the tail people, not the Others. In the Canadian preview you can recognize one of the actors that were signed in the summer that were supposed to be survivors of the tail of the plane.

Okay....

I agree that this was not one of the more amazing episodes that the Lost team has produced...

Michael's flashback's were pointless. There was some nice character moments...but his story did not develop in a new direction, and that's a big problem with a backstory.

But I think people are focusing far too much on 'revelation's. If that is the satisfaction that you hope to gain from Lost in every episode, then I think you're going to end up dissapointed a lot. Lost is first and foremost a character study. Most of my favourite episodes have not been particuarly 'schocking'. They've all been well crafted intimate stories about PEOPLE.

I'm not suggesting that this was one of my favourite episodes...and I acknowledge that because of the switch from Sawyer to Michael there were structural problems and a lot of flascback filler...BUT I'm not worried about the lack of new information or about the slow pacing...

I hear ya, Andy. And I was really into the light, as you can tell from my avatar. I guess I should have expected it to be just that... a light. But I wonder why Desmond turned it on the night Boone died....?


And yes...at times it was clearly meant to be a SawyerEp. When Michael said "You've never lost anyone you care about!" the camera panned over to Sawyer and the flashback noise started, and then the camera suddenyl did a complete jump-cut to Michael. It was surprisingly sloppy. I mean, one thing i DO expect from Lost is good editing.
And Michael has that one line when asked how he would raise Walt AND have a life...he said something like "If I do it, I'll do it." or something. I'll have to re-watch and see.

But this ep just felt sub-par on several levels. Not because of no answers, but because of nothing interesting.

I enjoyed the episode. I liked that the hatch scenes were told from a different angle, and we got some answers about stuff people have been speculating on from the past week (where does he get food, artificial sunlight/blinds, whose shoes, where's kate, etc, etc.). I somehow managed to miss the first shark attack, the freaking commercials ran long (for some radio station commercial). I knew I missed something important... looks like I'll have to get a digital copy. I swear, I was about to throw my remote through the tv:mad: . Crazy cliffhanger and next week looks like the big payoff, the episode looks bananas.
My cable began to go wonky and I thought I wasn't going to see it at all! I tried calling them but couldn't get through. Then, 5 min. before air time, I got in and got a recording saying that my area was experiencing trouble and they were working on it. I was ready to shoot someone. Then, wham ... it came in nearly 100% clear with just a touch of ghosting. But I can live with that!

I liked this eppy as much as the first. Nothing so far on this show has ever left me disappointed. :biggrin:

Okay....

I agree that this was not one of the more amazing episodes that the Lost team has produced...

Michael's flashback's were pointless. There was some nice character moments...but his story did not develop in a new direction, and that's a big problem with a backstory.

But I think people are focusing far too much on 'revelation's. If that is the satisfaction that you hope to gain from Lost in every episode, then I think you're going to end up dissapointed a lot. Lost is first and foremost a character study. Most of my favourite episodes have not been particuarly 'schocking'. They've all been well crafted intimate stories about PEOPLE.

I'm not suggesting that this was one of my favourite episodes...and I acknowledge that because of the switch from Sawyer to Michael there were structural problems and a lot of flascback filler...BUT I'm not worried about the lack of new information or about the slow pacing...

Nope, i've only been disappointed ONCE by this show. People's tastes are going to differ and myself, I'm just not interested in seeing an entire flashback devoted to him not wanting to lose his son. Sure it was integral to the story, but this is a 60 minute program and they got the message to us in FIVE. There was plenty of room for them to feed us with something, anything, in his flash back. Yes, I know of the polar bear and it was neato. I know this show is very heavy on character development, I love that. But at the same time, we do have a story going on at the island. When the story goes nowhere in an episode its called a filler episode. This story progressed about an inch. I don't really see anything in Michael's flashback that helped his character, it wasn't much different than his last flashback, which was far more entertaining.

I thought the episode wasn't bad. Was it 'edge-of-your-seat' like some of the other ones? No. But it did answer some questions that I've been itching over from the last one. I think that some of the smaller aspects made it worth it (Kate's moment with the chocolate was classic. Could you all not feel her satisfaction? :smile:) However, they managed to dance around some of the bigger issues again like why has Desmond been in a hole for God knows how long and what is the friggin deal with the numbers?!

Oh well, I guess there's always next week. ** 1/2 out of ****
Does anyone really expect the numbers to be explained this early on? I sure don't! We now know about the tail survivors and they are going to have to join in on the whole number mystery, too. What you want to bet they one or more of them will have a numebr tie-in? If the first season survivors found out the answer to the numbers now, it will take away all of the suspense for the tail survivors that have a number's connection. I'm all for getting it fed to me a small mouth full at a time. I'm in no rush to get all of the answers.

Wow, dangerdork, all that because you didn't enjoy one episode? Have patience, friend. The creative team are geniuses but not gods. There will be, no doubt, episodes that people will like less than others but that is not proof that the show has gone to hell in a hand basket. The creative team reads this board and if they see that something they did has a major negative reaction, they will adjust accordingly if they feel it's justified. As has been mentioned, there were last minute changes made to this episode, though we don't know why yet. But JJ has not assembled a team that pulled off an Emmy for Best Drama just to let everything slide off the edge of cliff. With such hit shows as Alias, JJ knows how to put together a terrific series and he's not about to fall asleep at the wheel.

I'd hate for you to unhook your antenna over one episode and then borrow season two's DVD set to see that you missed out on another excellent season the first time around.

As Desmond would say, "Lift it up, brother!" :biggrin:

JBDEAN, does your signature have to be twice as big as most people's posts?

Wow, dangerdork, all that because you didn't enjoy one episode? Have patience, friend. The creative team are geniuses but not gods. There will be, no doubt, episodes that people will like less than others but that is not proof that the show has gone to hell in a hand basket. The creative team reads this board and if they see that something they did has a major negative reaction, they will adjust accordingly if they feel it's justified. As has been mentioned, there were last minute changes made to this episode, though we don't know why yet. But JJ has not assembled a team that pulled off an Emmy for Best Drama just to let everything slide off the edge of cliff. With such hit shows as Alias, JJ knows how to put together a terrific series and he's not about to fall asleep at the wheel.

I'd hate for you to unhook your antenna over one episode and then borrow season two's DVD set to see that you missed out on another excellent season the first time around.

As Desmond would say, "Lift it up, brother!" :biggrin:

Well the team that won the emmy isn't completely intact anymore. Some of the writers are gone, like Paul Dini is only a consultant now. Thats what has me a bit concerned over the future of Lost. At least Javi's still there.

Anyway, I came away from this weeks episode with a lot more story and character points to chew on and think about. If you start looking at this show as "Gimme, gimme, gimme" you will probably be disappointed a lot. This is a show that is very much about what you take away from it, not what is given to you.

Noeland--------------------------------
Man, you said it perfectly! I think that people are so used to having shows that solve the issues within the hour or half hour that it still takes getting used to for an on-going, ever-revealing show like LOST. We're only in the second season. There is still SO much time to explain things and to reveal more mysteries. Now, if this had been the shows' finale of all time ... then I could see people being ticked off. It's only the second episode.

And I really liked the points you brought out about the bond that will form now between these 3 men. I found it facinating that Jin even uttered an English word that wasn't given to him by Sun (in her little book)! These three have been through a lot of personal stuff with each other and while they seemed to be mending their grievences when the raft set sail, this wrinkle could have been the straw that broke the camel's back and yet it will make them even stronger and tighter. Before they had over 40 other people on their plight, now with Walt taken and these new people they're coming up against, it's just them ... The Three LOST Muskateers against the others (and Others).

:biggrin:

I can't stand you HATERS.

The season 2, episode 2, was the BEST Lost episode ever. If you don't agree, you are a serious hater and can go to hell.

Man, you said it perfectly! I think that people are so used to having shows that solve the issues within the hour or half hour that it still takes getting used to for an on-going, ever-revealing show like LOST. We're only in the second season. There is still SO much time to explain things and to reveal more mysteries. Now, if this had been the shows' finale of all time ... then I could see people being ticked off. It's only the second episode.

:biggrin:

Are you not reading previous posts? I'm a guy who loves drawn out story arcs, watched all of Alias, Buffy, Angel, 24...

This isn't about me wanting any ANSWERS. it's about me wanting an interesting hour of TV when all we got was two guys bickering on a raft, a child being taken away from his father (which we already knew everything about) and a recap of last week's episode.

Stop blaming my disappointment on the fact that we got no answers. I don't care about answers, I care about entertainment.

Kyle, you are one of the haters.

Guys, if we survive tonight....we're gonna have an OceanBlue problem.

Are you not reading previous posts? I'm a guy who loves drawn out story arcs, watched all of Alias, Buffy, Angel...

This isn't about me wanting any ANSWERS. it's about me wanting an interesting hour of TV when all we got was two guys bickering on a raft, a child being taken away from his father (which we already knew everything about) and a recap of last week's episode.

Stop blaming my disappointment on the fact that we got no answers. I don't care about answers, I care about entertainment.
Sadly, most of the naysayer's tend to come from the instant gratification clan, so its usually the first conclusion people jump to. Not always true, like for you, but its usually correct.

The difference with Buffy/Angel and Lost is that Buffy/Angel always had the mini bads and then the huge over all arc. Some episodes were even apart from the main arc. With Lost there is one all encompassing arc, that wont even meet its end until the actual end of the show. I think everyone keeps waiting for that arc to make a landing but are dissappointed when it doesnt.

I think thats where most of the frustrations are coming from.

True, Jenn, but I think we can agree that Lost is like no other tv show.

And with Alias and 24 under my belt, I know I can handle my arcs. :)

Well played Dangerdork...

101st post for this awesome thread. Some good stuff here, from both parties no less.

Here's my humble 2 cents. Like any show, it must have a different "feel" from it's previous season, otherwise there will be redundacy. Personally, I thought there were too many flashbacks in Season 1, and I thought they were the "speedbumps", way too many in the parking lot than necessary.I am sure there are many who will disagree, saying they were absolutely necessary. Okay, I conceede. But, since we had our fill of backstory, I think it is wise to now concentrate on the actual story...the Island...which was so neglected in the last season. We have all the "people" background we need, now let's get to the mystery(s).
This episode may be the new pace and feel that is neccesary to make this season stand unique to the former. If that's the case, I'm happy. Less flashbacks....more action....more answers...more questions...less need to interupt an intense scene with the obligatory flashback..all in all, will make a better DVD collection than what just came out.

I guess my only real problem was that Michael's flashback just gave nothing new at all.

Jack:Getting his deceased father, getting married, ruining his father's life
Locke: Dreaming of the walkabout and being rejected, being conned out of a kidney

There are different events in people's lives. Here are examples of sucky flashback...

Michael: Getting Walt taken away, Getting walt taken away...again
Charlie: He turns into a junkie, he's...still...a junkie (Homecoming)

Could have been one of the reasons Homecoming wasn't a very popular ep. But at least that had the Ethan business which was incredibly exciting. This just had them...well...adrift.

I actually quite liked this episode, but the entire time I kept thinking, "There are going to be a lot of people screaming for ANSWERS!!!when this is over." Which is fine. Personally, I enjoy being in suspense. The raft scenes were amusing ("Get off my raft!" LOL), and I actually would've liked to see more of the ep focused on the 'adrift' people (the cutting between the two plotlines was kinda choppy). But I found both plotlines interesting and exciting, and I guess they served to set up next week well.



I thought it was believable; he'd just lost his son, and Sawyer was the easy target. But yeah, I thought that line was pretty ham-fisted (because Sawyer has lost everyone he cares about....yeah, we get it).


i didn't think it was a great episode NOT because i wanted more answers at all, but just because it felt rushed and not up to par with the rest of the episodes. but like kristen said, lost is like pizza and sex: even when it's bad, it's still good.

Oh, totally. I know I said it earlier but even when Lost is bad, it's still better than 90% of everything else on TV.

Well Episode 3 we are meant to learn so much so maybe this episode was kinda going though some stuff so when we get to the secrets we think oh yeah now it makes sense.

I think people are always too quick to judge and may have to eat there words next week.

This episode suffered from trying to be both the resolution for episode one and the build up for episode three. Its in all intents and purposes the standard 'in between' episode. Still enjoyable and very informative if taken at that level, but disappointing if you expected another Walkabout.

But from the promos for next week, all I have to say is that hopefully all these debates will finally come to an end! Full speed to excellence!

Yeah, I just expected it to pick up where the first ep left on, not literally go backwards. Through me for a loop.

I guess I'm way pickier than most people when it comes to writing and stucture in TV and movies, and I get WHY some people love the show so much and are so into it that they will accept anything they do. I love the show too, and want to see it succeed on its own terms.

I have had small quibbles here and there with plausibility and continuity throughout the whole show, but overall I think the writing is very well crafted and has had more than its share of moments of brilliance. There is definitely a formula going on here to keep us watching week after week, but the formula itself is a very sophisticated one with lots of room for recursion, innovation, and deconstructionism.

I don't consider that I need tons of thrills and action week after week, but one of the things I think the show has done MOST successfully in the past is to balance action and philosophy, questions and answers, character development and story progression. In almost every episode, old questions are answered, new ones are raised, relationships between the characters evolve and diverge, and the themes from the backstory often provide insights into the characters' motivations not just in the episodes we're watching, but retrospectively. It's all tied together very cleverly.

I thought it just didn't hang together this time. Michael's backstory alone may not have ruined it... but it didnt give us anything new. We already SAW that Walt was taken away by his mother, that Michael fought it, the whole nine yards. It's old news. The polar bear was a nice touch, but really, was it enough to justify the many minutes spent on elaborating on something we already knew?

From a storytelling standpoint, this backstory arc didn't NEED any more filling in, as some of the others do. What THAT backstory needs to cover more is the nature of Walt's mysterious "ability," whether his mother knew about it, whether Michael himself had any connection to or sense of it, and how that "specialness" connects Walt to the Island and the Others, which it almost certainly does.

The reconstruction of the "going down the hatch" with additional details also would have been much more effective if it had complemented by a backstory or "meanwhile back on the raft" that gave us some new information. I think that's part of the formula: I think you can afford to be leisurely in the backstory if you make up for it with action or revelations in the island plot, and vice versa. You can ask lots of new questions, as long as you answer some of the old ones. Major old ones, not "where does Desmond keep his food."

I just thought this episode lacked any of the sense of balance that most of the others have shown in these respects. Seeing Andy's post, I realized that it wasn't just me who felt that way.


oh, well said.

It was about Michael and not Sawyer because it just tied in better what with Michaels son being kidnapped. So maybe it was rushed but it cetanily made more sense on paper for it to be about Michael.

Honestly, sometimes when it flashed to Michael's backstory I kept expecting some Sawyer backstory action. It was obvious it was changed up. Of course it didnt ruin my enjoyment of the episode, but it was noticeable. Im generally not picky with a show once its won me over.

I can't stand you HATERS.

The season 2, episode 2, was the BEST Lost episode ever. If you don't agree, you are a serious hater and can go to hell.

wow, on a lot of different levels. lol@you

[quote=uhohlisa;511215]wow, on a lot of different levels.]

Good to see someone agrees with me.

You know what annoyed me more than the episode's pacing and content?

The percentage of commercials.
I thought it was just me! It did seem like an awful lot more than usual. Wonder why? Could it be because the show is now an Emmy awarded hit and advertisers want to advertise on it? I agree, too many this time!!

I didnt really notice the commercials as much this time as I did during the finale. Now that was some blatant advertising air space gone ary. You cant blame anyone other then the heads at ABC for that one. But its business and I guess a part of me understands. Hopefuly they end it soon, or else they will see numbers drop.

This episode was poorly paced and poorly edited, a lot of that due to the last minute flip in flashbacks. I too become tired when any negative comments about how an episode is structured or developed is due to people wanting answers and instant gratification. There is such a thing as good dranatic wirting and bad, even if the content to be presented is exactly the same.

I'm wondering if the Sawyer flashbacks were longer and they had to fill in with other stuff that was originally cut or part of the next episode. Frankly, they would have been better served to condense the struggles on the raft and combine them with the conflict to be explored with the "new people" next week as ep. 2. and then return to Locke's pov on the hatch which is to be continued in "Orientation." Sure people might scream at having no hatch scenes for a week--that's the instant gratification crowd--but we'd have had two episodes with good internal consistency and mounting suspense in return.

People who complain about the commercials are naive about the way network tv works. Its sole purpose is to use ratings to engender the highest possible advertising rates for a show and then to sell as much time at that rate as they can get away with. To be surprised that ABC would take advantage of the system upon which their whole business strategy is based doesn't make any sense.

Cardie

What are you talking about? The back story was kinda blah, but the revelations were fantastic. You must have passed out....the gift, the shark logo, the shot at kate....the conversation with Locke, the tick marks on the wall.....

What show were you watching?!?!?!?

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I mean Michael gave young Walt a white bear!!!!!!!!!! HELLO!!!!!!!!!!

GREAT eppie,imo!

I agree with the OP- I was none too pleased with this episode. I felt cheated for waiting all week long- for that. :( I thought that the previews for next week's episode looked exciting, but then I'd thought the same thing about this one, with the whole "the fate of ALL the survivors will be revealed". I guess they meant the survivors from the raft and the hatch expedition. :mad:
The only thing that saved the episode for me, was finding the insignia on the shark's tail. Otherwise, I was quite deflated after it was over. But, I still love LOST, so I will consider this a small wart on an otherwise pristine surface. :D

ETA:
I didn't actually expect for the "fate of ALL the survivors" to be revealed, but I did expect for the story line to be advanced a bit more than that, rather than just a long recap of what happened last week. ;) Just to clarify.

Okay, I'll admit that the backstory was not that as good as it should have been but really, I wasn't focused on that, I was focused on what was going on on the island. And has everybody forgotten about the Mother Mary that Charlie has. I'm so friggen worried about that I can' t even see straight! And the episode was extremely suspensfull because the whole time I was like, "Where the hell is Jin?"
The hatch was good although yeah they shouldn't have done same cliffhanger twice but hey we shouldn't complain we did get to see more of the hatch in this episode. I thought the scene with Kate eating the canybar was priceless. And the scratch marks on the wall gave me chills. I hate that 70's song now, and the bullet nearly hitting Kate's head was awesome, how can you denie this episode.
And I thought that the raft battle with Michael and Sawyer was neccesary because Michael is trying to get over losing the most important thing in his life, "Walt." But in then end he can't get over it so he finally tells himself he'll get him back and when he said that, I truly believed him.
We are finally getting to see another side of Sawyer we've never seen before, a caring side. Now I know all the ladies were cheering for his good side last night although I was thinking what a hard *** when he pulled the bullet out of his shoulder with his bare hands.

Finally with an ending like we had last night how in the heck could you call this episode a snooze? In the immortal words of Jin, "OTHERS!"

CS

Sure people might scream at having no hatch scenes for a week--that's the instant gratification crowd--but we'd have had two episodes with good internal consistency and mounting suspense in return.


I'd actually be excited to see no hatch scenes for awhile! :D The whole Desmond reveal aside, I think the best scenes happen on the actual island. But, then that's probably just a personal scenery preference on my part. I'm not a fan of action adventure type movies for the most part, because they are often shot in dark, dank, concrete/metal type environments, in which you expect dark things to happen. But, the contrast of the weird, possibly evil happenings against the backdrop of a beautiful, lush, tropical locale is awesome, IMO. ;)

the michael flashback was pointless, the rest was enjoyable.

I do feel that this episode was necessary because we now got to see how the last conversation between Michael and Walts mother was like. I got some sort of closure. I look at this episode as an buildup to the third episode, and whether people like it or not, there are going to be episodes which isnt as exciting as some other episodes. They are indeed necessary to carry the show on forward. This episode was a bit unusual because we got the same ending in the hatch, but who cares? Change are good sometimes. ;)

We also got to see that Kate had an advantage that she was hiding from Desmond, and maybe that could lead to a takeover at the third episode. (even though Desmond actually nearly hit her when he shot against the wall, what an odd coincidence)

Also, we got to see The other survivors from the plane crash at the end.

Now those of you who really liked this episode know how those of us who liked 'Homecoming' felt.:biggrin:

Its not really a good feeling to be the odd people out but stick to your guns. If you really liked it..you liked it.

I didn't think this episode especially bad or good. It was ok. I don't expect flashbacks to give us anything more than insight into the charcter and to tell us what motivates the character. Nothing more or less...perhaps that is why I was NOT disapointed in 'Homecoming'. I didn't expect the flashbacks to advance the island plot.

Sawyer still annoys me and I thought it was dumb of him to take the bullets out of the gun like that...but I'm not so worked up about it that I'm going to go start a seperate thread over it. He and Michale bickering on the raft got old quickly...and the show 'literally jumped the shark'. Good work. However that is all my opinion and not written in stone until the ending of the world amen.

I thought the bit in the hatch was intriguing but then I like seeing scenes written and shot from differnt points of view. We all know how we felt when we saw Jin come home with blood on his hands from Sun's pov...but then we got to see it again from Jin's perspective. I personally like that kind of stuff. That's where personaly taste comes in I suppose.

Charlie and Claire and Aaron...what a cute little family..I hope he stays clean and they don't go all dysfunctional on us...

Had they approached this episode differently, by NOT going backwards and repeating the time line for Episode 1, then there would be a 100+ post thread here about "What the hell were they doing in the water for all that time? That's not right, it's just not good tv. Where's the continuity, they never fill in the gaps!"

It's impossible to please people entirely. But I still enjoyed this episode for what it was.....it filled in the question "What were they doing in the water all that time?" They were trying to survive long enough to get back on dry land, and plot their next move. Michael was obviously angry and scared at the prospect of losing Walt again, Sawyer was tending to a gunshot wound, and appeared to me to be personally hurt by Michael ignoring what he did to try to help. Sawyer has ALWAYS been misread by the other lost-aways, they never trusted him, they figured he was the one being transported by the marshall, that he was a person to be despised just for breathing, yet everytime they discount his motives, he comes through and shows that he is, in fact, a pretty good guy deep down.

The torture scene in Season one? That proves that they wanted to believe he was purposefully witholding Shannon's meds, they weren't going to believe him otherwise, and he knew that. He knows how he's perceived by everyone on the island, and works to prove them wrong, without BEGGING them to believe him.

Yea I actually really like sawyer. I love his character, and Josh does an amazing job with his role. Yea although sawyer is kinda a punk at time hording and keeping everyone's stuff, he seems to be a decent guy deep down yet always gets the blame and yelled at for stuff. Although, in saying that ya really can't blame them. He hasen't made himself the most likable person on the island, but I still love him.

But if he didn't look the way he did..no one would care. ;)

my only problem with the episode is that it wasn't the premiere. i liked the premiere but it drug for me. this one was paced much better for me, it was much more exciting. if this were the premiere then it would have ended with jack saying "you!" and we'd be like, "OMG! Jack KNOWS this guy!? who is he!?" then episode two, jack's episode would have been more exciting because OMG! that's where he met him!

roll back episodes can work really well. there's a brilliant epidode of coupling (british series) called 9 1/2 minutes and the entire episode is just the same 9 1/2 minutes played from three perspectives. each new perspective reveals why certain things were said or done in the previous perspectives, and it's hilarious!

i think it worked well for lost also, showing what Locke was doing, taking off his shoes, etc... it's fun seeing it from a different perspective, I just would have reversed the perspectives - locke first, jack second.

for those worried about change of Vision - the show is run by Damon and Carlton and Damon was there from inception. he is "co-creator" so, it's still a single vision.

the pacing isn't much differnt than last season, it's just a little rougher on us when we're teased by ending in the same place.

as far as the michael flashbacks - did they have purpose? yes. were they enjoyable? they were to me, but i understand why others didn't enjoy them. was anything new discovered? not really. but it was a story from his past. we found out how something happened we already knew.

did we need to see sawyer's childhood tragedy? we already knew about it? but it was powerful imagery and was a part of his character. in the same way, having to give up your child for a better life is pretty powerful to a lot of parents. after fighting so long to have some part in his kid's life, to finally feel defeated, just so he could have a better life - that's tough.

this wasn't a parallel, it was a contrast. Michael letting walt go vs. michael having walt taken from him.

also - i really don't know why people want Michael to die, he's very sympathetic. at least i think so.

so for me, MoSMoF - good. adrift - great.

you also have to remember that it's the beginning of season 2 and there are a lot of new fans. they may be doing some "reintroducing" of characters for the first few episodes. (example, locke saying "she's a convict" etc...) this is normal for sophomore seasons.



"You know, I’ve said something that I meant to say more, because I thought, “That was clever!” And that is that a television show is a question, and a movie is an answer. With TV, it’s all about exploring the permutations of a story. If you provide the answer, people don’t come back. A movie, though, is a self-enclosed thing. It answers the question. You don’t have the luxury like you do with serial television to depend on the hours of story that came before to indulge in that sort of freedom to experiment." - Joss Whedon

I like Sawyer and Josh was amazing. I just thought some of the backstory was a sonooze. My question is why are they still not getting into why Desmonds is in the hatch? What is the contagion that is keeping him there? So many questions and very few answers so far.

Nice post Speaker.

Well made point about the show's "vision". Damon is co-creator, and has been showrunner for the majority of the series. He is at least (if not more) responsible for the show's "vision" as anybody else. I would be very surprised if there has been any change in "vision", given that before they started, they had roughly 4-5 years worth of show and story plotted out. So they probably have a long way to go before they need any new ideas! :D

I thought the Michaal's flashbacks dragged a bit, but it would have made no sense to have any other character flashbacked this week, given that the episode dealt with the losss of Walt. Definitely good for helping any new or less-obsessed viewers catch up on Michael and Walt's history.

I disgaree with you that 2x02 would have been a better premiere though.

I think the strength of the inital pair of episodes would be weakened were they reversed.

Look at the finale... it ended with Jack/Locke/Kate looking down into the hatch shaft. While the more urgent cliffhanger was realistically the fate of the rafters, the question that everyone was going nuts over all summer was "What is in the Hatch?!" so it makes perfect sense that Season Two would open with (that wonderful sequence) revealing what is inside. Also it had us anxiously awaiting the fates of the rafters for a whole extra week, which was pretty cool.

While I would have like 2x02 to deal solely with the rafters, as 2x01 had dealt solely with the Caves/Hatch action, I did like the flashback to Locke and Kate's entry, as it ends the action at the same time as 2x01 did. We get to take with the resolution from the seperate cliffhangers of 1x24, but the chronology is fleshed out for us. Which I liked a lot.

I am guessing that next week they will tie the two story stands together, timline-wise

I think the seperation for the opening episodes was brave, clever, and worked, but I think it needed to be the way round that it was, or else the impact of the opening and the cliffhangers would not have worked so well.

Nice Joss quote.;)

partyman - it could have opened at the hatch, what i meant was showing locke's entry verses jack's sitting around at camp and telling people they'll be okay.

we have done this before, but it was with flash backs - jin and sun. and for that it worked for me to have us go through sun's perspective first - where she didn't know what was going on.

and i completely understand that that's why they did that here. i just think, for me, that it would have been more effective to have this unknown guy then jack saying "YOU!" and then have his flashback be second - reveealing why he knew him.

that would have made going back OVER the events a little more riveting - because while we're following jack back through the woods to the hatch, we're finding out jack's connection to desmond.

I'd give tonight's episode a C. Last week was probably an A-/B+. The raft scenes and flashbacks were drawn out and pointless. The only thing that kept this episode from receiving a failing grade was the addition of Kate's perspective in the hatch and the reveal that the numbers reset some sort of countdown.

Next week better deliver or I'll probably be tuning out in the coming weeks.

I guess I'm way pickier than most people when it comes to writing and stucture in TV and movies, and I get WHY some people love the show so much and are so into it that they will accept anything they do. I love the show too, and want to see it succeed on its own terms.

Dangerdork, I have created a screen name on this site simply to tell you that your posts about last night's episode are terrific. I have posted similar complaints about the episode on other sites but yours were better written. Its rare that I read a post (here or anywhere) that so captures my own views that I feel compelled to register a screen name only to tell the poster (in this case, you) thanks. But thanks. I appreciate a well-written, well-thought out post and I appreciate it even more when I find myself wishing I would have written it. Keep up the good work.

Michael is the character...You wanted Michael's character to die?

Or you do you want Harold Perrineau, the actor, to die because you can't stand his character?

Oh Good Lord. Why must someone always go there? I think it's pretty clear that they meant the character. :rolleyes: If someone says that they think Locke is evil, does that mean they think that Terry O'Quinn is evil in real life? Or if they say that Kate is annoying, does that mean that they find Evangeline Lilly annoying? Doubtful.

I agree, I am tired of the recap.... Lets get er done!

JJ did state earlier, that only by episode 3 would we learn the full significance of the hatch.
I thought it was a good episode.

Too many people are dismissing Michael. He is now commited to retrieving his son.
Dont u think that could mean alot of good stuff for writers to dig into ?
And i felt sorry for him as Susan used every trick in the book to bring Walt with her.
Sawyer's humanity also shined through as he sat injured on pontoon screaming "Jiiiiiin".

I think the criticisms are out of place. The season only just started.

I thought the episode was great. We learned a lot about Desmond -- he's been down there for a long time, he's waiting for someone (his relief, I imagine), he probably IS there alone, and while he's not evil, he's a very different person from the happy-go-lucky runner Jack met years ago.

We saw some growth in Sawyer's personality (much more of a team player), saw he and Michael bond through adversity, saw Locke's quick thinking potentially save the day (the boys are in trouble, but Kate's free), and even caught up with Charlie and his statue. I was on the edge of my seat, and that was the quickest hour of the week.

And we had another "hanging Charlie" moment while wondering if Michael had accidentally shot Sawyer, and another absolute hum-dinger of a cliffhanger. I understand that some were disappointed, but I thought last night was well above par.

Bill M., regarding Sawyer, don't forget that he's encouraged them to think of him as amoral. I can't agree that he's been misunderstood. Everyone wanted to believe that he was withholding Shannon's meds because he didn't deny it. And his behavior up to then had suggested that he was the sort of person who would do something like that for his own advantage. I do feel that he got some redemption last night, and that Michael owes him an apology. And I never thought I'd say that.

JJ did state earlier only by episode 3 would we learn the full significance of the hatch.
I'm not picking on you, but could you have spoiler fonted this? Lots of us try really hard to be as ignorant as possible of future episodes. Thanks. :)

I agree with you about Michael. This story's going to have legs. He's been through possibly the most traumatic thing a human being can experience, and that night adrift was like a crucible for him. I would have bet, going into the season, that he wasn't going to find Walt anytime soon, if ever, but with Walt's apparition in the premiere and if those are the Others at the end of the episode, maybe his quest will not be as long as I thought.

I'm not picking on you, but could you have spoiler fonted this? Lots of us try really hard to be as ignorant as possible of future episodes. Thanks. :)

Done!

Done!
Thanks!

Bill M., regarding Sawyer, don't forget that he's encouraged them to think of him as amoral. I can't agree that he's been misunderstood. Everyone wanted to believe that he was withholding Shannon's meds because he didn't deny it. And his behavior up to then had suggested that he was the sort of person who would do something like that for his own advantage. I do feel that he got some redemption last night, and that Michael owes him an apology. And I never thought I'd say that.


I feel he hasn't done anything to DIScourage them from thinking it more than he has encouraged it.

He knows how he's viewed by people, and that's of his own making, I agree. But really, if he had said "I don't have the meds" do you think they would've believed him enough to let it go at that?

Side Note: I don't base my opinion of the character on the actor's looks, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread....he's just not my type. LOLOL

Ok. :)

Btw..I don't think its wrong for people to forgive Sawyer sins that they don't forgive in other characters because of his looks..I just want people to admit it. :biggrin:

I won't defend the editing or pacing of this episode - it wasn't great. But the story content of this episode may be much more important retroactively than we know. Events we consider unimportant and boring now may have unforeseen significance in the light of future events. Even the flashbacks, which everyone seems ready to dismiss. For instance:

1) Why did Walt's mom want so badly to avoid court? She manipulated Michael into settling, but her motives may turn out to be different than we think. She takes her "special" boy and runs around the globe, moving from place to place. And then dies mysteroiusly. There is more to this story than thus far revealed.

2) As others have noted, the lawyer's office in which Michael is signing to give up his child, although in New York instead of Sydney, bears a striking resemblance to the office in which Claire was signing to give up her child. The way things are connected in "Lost," I doubt this is a coincidence. That alone was more interesting to me than the stuffed polar bear.

3) Although the hatch moments repeated the timeline from last week, they offered a wealth of new information regarding Desmond's belief that the "world" might be gone, that a disease is on the island, and that escaping by raft is useless. We saw the mysterious countdown and the use of "The Numbers" to stop it. And when, in some future episode, Locke quips "What did one snowman say to the other snowman?" and some charaacter - possibly one we've known from the beginning - offers a quick answer, a pretty fun cliffhanger moment will result.

4) The Feng Shui "Dharma" symbol on everything - Desmond's jumpsuit, the food containers, the walls... heck, even the shark (!) - was a pretty big reveal in my book. Sure, we don't understand its significance yet, but when we do, we will trace back to its first clear appearance in this episode.

I'm willing to let the writers spool out their story as they see fit. All in all, while this wasn't the best episode of the series, I still found it a riveting hour of television. If I have any complaint at all it is that there wasn't enough of it. ABC needs to trim the commercial time a bit.

I feel he hasn't done anything to DIScourage them from thinking it more than he has encouraged it.

Well, in addition to the hoarding itself, he as much as told Jack that he didn't intend to play by the rules of civilization anymore and, after Jack saved him life, explicitly said that he would have let Jack die in the same circumstance. He's behaved like a sociopath and has to expect to be treated like one.


He knows how he's viewed by people, and that's of his own making, I agree. But really, if he had said "I don't have the meds" do you think they would've believed him enough to let it go at that?

No, but I think that he would have spared himself what happened had he let Jack, Sayid, Kate or Boone search his stash.

I hated the Michael flashbacks. I don't think we learned anything new from them.

The Michael character is really annoying. He's even more self-centered than Sawyer. Come to think of it, all of the Lost characters, with the possible exception of Rose, are extremely self-centered.

I think next weeks episode will be a lot better.

Questions answered from Episode 1 - Man of Science, Man of Faith
1. Whose shoes? Locke's
2. Why were the shoes there? Locke took them off to walk quietly
3. Where was Kate? She was locked in the pantry by Desmond and Locke
4. What happened to Kate? She escaped into the ventilation system with Locke's help (when he was putting the handcuffs on her he slipped a knife in her pants pocket) thru a hatch in the pantry
5. What happened to the guys on the raft? Sawyer found Michael and saved his life. They were on pieces of their raft. Sawyer had been shot but he still managed to save Michael. The current took them back to the island - but on another part. Jin came running (with his hands bound behind him) and yelling that the "Others" were there.
Questions brought up from Episode 2 - Adrift
1. Who is HIM?
2. Who is Desmond?
3. Why is Desmond on the island?
4. Why did Desmond ask John how many of the people were sick?
5. Who are the "others"
6. Where is Walt?
7. What is the symbol seen on Desmond's uniform and on all the products in the storage closet?
8. What are the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42 and what do they mean?
9. When Desmond made Locke type 4 8 15 16 23 42, what happened?
10. Why did the shark that Michael and Sawyer see have the same logo as Desmond's shirt and all the items in the storage closet?

I am sure I missed a lot but the above are things I could come up with off the top of my head. I thought Adrift was a good (and informative) episode.

Well, the voice over at the beginning of the show stated that "Tonight! The fate of ALL of the survivors will be REVEALED!!" I dont think this episode revealed anything of the sort. :ohwell:

I hated the Michael flashbacks. I don't think we learned anything new from them.

The Michael character is really annoying. He's even more self-centered than Sawyer. Come to think of it, all of the Lost characters, with the possible exception of Rose, are extremely self-centered.
Well, so are most people, you know? I think Michael's focus for all this time has been his newfound son. In the midst of everything else, he's learning to be a parent. That naturally takes time and energy from other things. He's definitely hot-tempered, but he's also been an integral part of survival on the island. Drawing up plans for a shower, helping Jack with the (abortive) amputation, building the raft, etc. The goodbye between Jack and Michael sad a lot to me about the respect and regard the two men have come to feel for one another.

Well, the voice over at the beginning of the show stated that "Tonight! The fate of ALL of the survivors will be REVEALED!!" I dont think this episode revealed anything of the sort. :ohwell:
It didn't reveal Walt's fate, for one thing.

I don't know but I'd be willing to bet that the viewers who are complaining about last night's episode are the same ones who complained that there weren't enough answers in the finale of last season. Last night's episode revealed the hatch arrival from Locke and Kate's point of view, not Jack's as in the first one. We now know, for what's it's worth, that the shoes Jack saw were Locke's. We know where Kate was during Jack's confrontation with Desmond and Locke. AND we know that Sawyer, Michael and Jin all survived the blowing up of the raft. As usual the writers have given me just enough info to keep me wanting more. I have thoroughly enjoyed the first two episodes and will be watching next week when we discover who the h*** the people who have captured the guys are and what the h*** Desmond is all about. MAYBE. That's what interests me about this show. They don't tell me everything. If they told me everything, it would lose my interest pretty quickly.

I'm amazed that so many people didn't like this episode. I thought it was awesome - not just a rehash of stuff we already know. As for Desmond and the hatch, we learned that he's not been watching the lostaways, that he's waiting for a replacement and has been for some time, that there's code riddle set for the replacement so this is or was an organized/possible governement experiment, that somehow a logo was placed on a shark that may or may not be organic, there's a countdown to something with 108 as the starting coutdown number, there was indeed a sickness so Rousseau wasn't crazy, and that he was shocked to know that people were actually living on the island and not dying. He thinks something cataclysmic happened. This is lots of info with amazing possibilities. As for the raft scenes/flashback, those too were revealing. We didn't know that Michael legally fought for Walt. He wasn't being selfish, his girlfriend was. Also, didn't anyone think it was strange that Brion meets her, puts her in a ligh profile international law jobs straight out of law school in several foreign cities, marries her and wants to adopt her kid, then when mom dies wants to dump the kid ASAP? The conversations between her and Michael this epi were revealing to show how badly she wanted to separate Walt from Michael and not for the reasons she stated. Something is up with this back story that we don't know yet. Plus, little Walt was acting very strange during teh goodbye scene. It apepared to me to be more than just shyness. These scenes also evidence a foil between Claire and Michael. Claire didn't want to accept the responsibility for her kid and wanted to give him up but was manipulated into keeping him. Michael wanted to take care of his kid but was manipulated into giving him up then got him back when he didn't want him. Also, there is more to the polar bear stuffed animal gift. We have been given lots of clues involving snow/anarctica in the past, including the polar bear, penguin and comic book. In this epi, the polar bear toy was in a gift bag covered with little suns. The sun is on the mural wall in the hatch. The candy bar Kate ate, in a wonderfully funny scene, was named Appollo, who happens to be a god of the sun. This sympolism obviously means something. As for the conversations between sawyer and Michael on teh raft, they were believeable. They both went from great joy at the thought of being rescued to sheer horror. They would start a blame game under those circumstances. Plus, Michael didn't really know that sawyer saved his life (I guess sawyer is a hero after all). I also liked the line sawyer said about the others wanting Walt all along. It's not often that the lostaways figure something out and share it with someone else. This could be a sign that they are actually going to talk to each other about what the hell is going on and share info. This show may not have have moved the plot along much, but it was chock full of info and totally engrossing. These little details, and character development, are what sets this show apart. Just my long-winded 2 cents.

I'm amazed that so many people didn't like this episode. I thought it was awesome - not just a rehash of stuff we already know. As for Desmond and the hatch, we learned that he's not been watching the lostaways, that he's waiting for a replacement and has been for some time, that there's code riddle set for the replacement so this is or was an organized/possible governement experiment, that somehow a logo was placed on a shark that may or may not be organic, there's a countdown to something with 108 as the starting coutdown number, there was indeed a sickness so Rousseau wasn't crazy, and that he was shocked to know that people were actually living on the island and not dying. He thinks something cataclysmic happened. This is lots of info with amazing possibilities. As for the raft scenes/flashback, those too were revealing. We didn't know that Michael legally fought for Walt. He wasn't being selfish, his girlfriend was. Also, didn't anyone think it was strange that Brion meets her, puts her in a ligh profile international law jobs straight out of law school in several foreign cities, marries her and wants to adopt her kid, then when mom dies wants to dump the kid ASAP? The conversations between her and Michael this epi were revealing to show how badly she wanted to separate Walt from Michael and not for the reasons she stated. Something is up with this back story that we don't know yet. Plus, little Walt was acting very strange during teh goodbye scene. It apepared to me to be more than just shyness. These scenes also evidence a foil between Claire and Michael. Claire didn't want to accept the responsibility for her kid and wanted to give him up but was manipulated into keeping him. Michael wanted to take care of his kid but was manipulated into giving him up then got him back when he didn't want him. Also, there is more to the polar bear stuffed animal gift. We have been given lots of clues involving snow/anarctica in the past, including the polar bear, penguin and comic book. In this epi, the polar bear toy was in a gift bag covered with little suns. The sun is on the mural wall in the hatch. The candy bar Kate ate, in a wonderfully funny scene, was named Appollo, who happens to be a god of the sun. This sympolism obviously means something. As for the conversations between sawyer and Michael on teh raft, they were believeable. They both went from great joy at the thought of being rescued to sheer horror. They would start a blame game under those circumstances. Plus, Michael didn't really know that sawyer saved his life (I guess sawyer is a hero after all). I also liked the line sawyer said about the others wanting Walt all along. It's not often that the lostaways figure something out and share it with someone else. This could be a sign that they are actually going to talk to each other about what the hell is going on and share info. This show may not have have moved the plot along much, but it was chock full of info and totally engrossing. These little details, and character development, are what sets this show apart. Just my long-winded 2 cents.

The smart thing would be to break up such a long post into sections and pararagraphs.

That makes it easier to read, and people wont get bored reading it, or have blood dripping from their eyesockets by the thirteenth line they read... just a suggestion.

You can totally tell that this Michael episode was a last minute rush job. It was boring, hardly anything was revealed and it was totally recapping everything for the thousandth time. Gosh I love LOST too much, which is why this is really pissing me off.

We're all huge LOST fans but be honest and let's talk about what a drag this ep was...Sadly.
Have we seen the same show? It was GREAT.
Maybe you saw Desperate Housewives by accident and got mixed up?
I enjoyed every minute!

I am amazed at how many people "jump ship" so to speak just because 1 episode doesn't meet their standards.

LOST is the BEST show on tv right now. And just because I didn't understand why we kept going back and forth with Michael on the raft and him losing his son to his girlfriend doesn't mean I give up on a show that has consistantly held my attention.

This show is awesome - full of twists and turns and questions and answers that lead to more questions - what other show does that. (None that I've seen).

Don't give up so quickly folks - stay tuned I'm sure the writers have BIG surprises waiting for us.

I've seen many, many long unbroken posts in this board about much more complicated, brain hurting topics. I've also seen other posters with multiple paragraphs get criticized for havign too long of a post. I've also seen some atrocious spelling and grammar, off-topic stupid posts, double posts, empty posts, etc, but I don't criticize others because I joined this board for the sheer joy of sharing ideas. I thought I was sharing some insightful stuff and was eagerly awaiting responses, only to have you attack my writing style. Get over yourself.

I actually thought this was a rather good episode. Granted Michael's backstory wasn't a 'on the edge of your seat thriller' but the little things they put in for us to notice was great. I very much look foward to next weeks episode.

Why does everyone think that if you didn't like this episode, you must have accidently watched Desperate Housewives? Shut the hell up with that crap.

SInce we have already had Dr. Jack and Kate in episode one of season two I was hoping that this episode would have given us more perspective on what happens to our beloved raftees and their interaction. Many of us are getting tired of Dr. Jack and kate dominating each episode. Please enough. THere are other characters of the castaways that can do the same investigating that Kate and Dr. Jack are doing and might be a wonderful change for viewers.

This show originally became such a hit because of the 14 different characters and their interesting stories and interactions with each other. Somehow this has become the Dr. Jack show with Kate copying the "Alias" format's character. Other characters have huge fan bases all over the world that are crying out for their character to have some air time too. Remember: Jack does not make Lost a hit drama series. Lost made Jack. Overpushing this character is bringing out critism on other forums.

I agree that on paper it made more sense for the ep to be about Michael, but the stuff with Jack, Kate, and Locke was obserd, IMHO, in this ep.

I would rather have seen more with Michael and Sawyer or what happens after Jack says "you!) Going back in time made it seem like they were trying to fill in time and insult my intelligence. This is by far the worst ep yet. I hope they go up from here because I really love this show.

The smart thing would be to break up such a long post into sections and pararagraphs.

That makes it easier to read, and people wont get bored reading it, or have blood dripping from their eyesockets by the thirteenth line they read... just a suggestion.

Wha? BWA-HAHAHAHAHA!! :lol:

I've seen many, many long unbroken posts in this board about much more complicated, brain hurting topics. I've also seen other posters with multiple paragraphs get criticized for havign too long of a post. I've also seen some atrocious spelling and grammar, off-topic stupid posts, double posts, empty posts, etc, but I don't criticize others because I joined this board for the sheer joy of sharing ideas. I thought I was sharing some insightful stuff and was eagerly awaiting responses, only to have you attack my writing style. Get over yourself.

BTW- I wasn't laughing at you, but just thought the "blood dripping from eyesockets" remark was pretty funny. ;)

As long as you don't break any rules, just post what you want to post. There are just as many people who enjoy a long, well-thought out post, as those who like the short and sweet quip! :D

well I don't post here much and after this epi I knew there were going to be some issues with how it was presented..... let me just say I felt "used" as a viewer after this epi.

Now this is how I felt, you can't come back with rebuttals on I want answers too fast etc etc. That was my intial feeling when it was over.

You can't use the same cliffhanger twice. You just can't. I love the show but as a viewer I was a bit offended and really hope they pull it together next time. It will be interesting to see how this season turns out.

This episode suffered from trying to be both the resolution for episode one and the build up for episode three. Its in all intents and purposes the standard 'in between' episode. Still enjoyable and very informative if taken at that level, but disappointing if you expected another Walkabout.

But from the promos for next week, all I have to say is that hopefully all these debates will finally come to an end! Full speed to excellence!

Well I certainly hope that its only an "in-between" episode and then next is gonna be a biggie. I may have tolerated this episode better had it been more in the middle of the season, it didn't feel right at all to have something this slow in Episode 2 (of Season 2).

QUESTION.....what was the symbol/logo on the bag that held the stuffed polar bear that Michael handed to Walt's mom?? Was it THE logo??

I think it's cool we can give such real time feedback to the show's creators/producers. Back in the twin peaks days there wasn't any way to get the message. Perhaps after they see the reaction they'll know not to stagnate the plot.

I can only hope..

While I disagree with jet3004 I would like to thank the original poster for coming up with an creative title for this thread. :)

While I disagree with jet3004 I would like to thank the original poster for coming up with an creative title for this thread. :)

I thoroughly appreciate that. I'm glad civil people like you and I can discuss opinions without being cuthroat.

Something tells me that next week's episode is going to be a blast, an Anti-Snooze, if you will.

While I disagree with jet3004 I would like to thank the original poster for coming up with an creative title for this thread. :)

Well he is the original poster and I am assuming that is a shot at me for my thread title. I'm sorry that the title of my thread is stupid and over-used. :drowsy:

I've seen many, many long unbroken posts in this board about much more complicated, brain hurting topics. I've also seen other posters with multiple paragraphs get criticized for havign too long of a post. I've also seen some atrocious spelling and grammar, off-topic stupid posts, double posts, empty posts, etc, but I don't criticize others because I joined this board for the sheer joy of sharing ideas. I thought I was sharing some insightful stuff and was eagerly awaiting responses, only to have you attack my writing style. Get over yourself.

I don't think this is a negative criticism as much as just some feedback to help make your post more readable. FWIW, I didn't read the comment as trying to be mean in intent, just helpful with a little humor at the end.

If you were a big LOST fan, seen all the eps, but not much of a computer user, never looked at this site, spoilers, articles, etc., you might think that there were zombies that were approaching Sawyer, Mike, and Jin...which is a humorous angle to me.

If you were a big LOST fan, seen all the eps, but not much of a computer user, never looked at this site, spoilers, articles, etc., you might think that there were zombies that were approaching Sawyer, Mike, and Jin...which is a humorous angle to me.

It seems really difficult at this point to not know that

(I can't believe i'm still spoiler fonting this one)

There are survivors from the tail

It's been reported virtually everywhere. It's hardly any secret anymore. Still a chance for zombies though!

No, No, No...I know who they are and who they aren't, but you can't tell me that the end wasn't set up for them to come across that way for casual fans...

I can't stand you HATERS.

The season 2, episode 2, was the BEST Lost episode ever. If you don't agree, you are a serious hater and can go to hell.

um Ocean Blue, you need to stop the profanity and moaning.
so what. they didnt like it. i happen to LIKE the character of Sawyer a lot.
*points to icon* however i also know that there are many people that do NOT
like him at all. i deal with it.

if they dont agree, that does NOT make them haters.

FYI you are now on the MODs radar. that is NOT a place that you want to be.
i suggest you figure out what you are doing wrong
(telling everyone that they are haters and can go to hell)
and be a bit more constructive with your posts here.
the plane is already full. we will have no problem escorting you off of the plane. :biggrin:

Personally, I haven't gone and read what everyone has said about this episode but, I LOVED this episode. It intertwined so well with Man of Science, Man of Faith that I was impressed on how they did. The whole eppie was great. The Locke and Kate version was great. The Sawyer and Micheal stuff was great. Everything was just so perfect. So I don't understand why anyone would hate this eppie. It fit so well with the season premiere. But this is just my opinion.

Why does everyone think that if you didn't like this episode, you must have accidently watched Desperate Housewives? Shut the hell up with that crap.

um, yeah same can apply to you with that comment.
if you dont like what they are saying you are free to ignore it.
you do NOT have to respond in kind to any post you find insulting.

higher ground people. higher ground.

I liked this episode -- and as all of you Lost fanatics should know by now - you have to pay close attention to every little detail, even if it seems boring at the time and mundane, I'm willing to bet that parts are going to come up in the coming episodes that will come back to this episode... bet you won't think it's as boring later when you make the connections! :cool:

The smart thing would be to break up such a long post into sections and pararagraphs.

That makes it easier to read, and people wont get bored reading it, or have blood dripping from their eyesockets by the thirteenth line they read... just a suggestion.

The smart thig to do would be to ignore any long unbroken posts if they make your eyes bleed. And the NICE thing to do would be, to be, POLITE.

Just a suggestion.

Njc----------------------

I liked this episode -- and as all of you Lost fanatics should know by now - you have to pay close attention to every little detail, even if it seems boring at the time and mundane, I'm willing to bet that parts are going to come up in the coming episodes that will come back to this episode... bet you won't think it's as boring later when you make the connections! :cool:


I agree. I can defintely see that there will be some sort of reference in later eppies that will come back to this particular one. So I agree with you. :)

You can't use the same cliffhanger twice. You just can't. I love the show but as a viewer I was a bit offended and really hope they pull it together next time. It will be interesting to see how this season turns out.

How did they use the same cliff hanger twice?

Well he is the original poster and I am assuming that is a shot at me for my thread title. I'm sorry that the title of my thread is stupid and over-used.

Sorry Andy, but it's true. If you look at the episodes from season 1, every week there was a thread titled Worst Episode Ever and one titled Best Episode Ever. The title is not stupid, just a bit overused. Actually, I'm surprised I didn't see a Best Episode Ever thread. Maybe I should start one? :p

They used the same cliffhanger twice in the Jack/Hatch storyline.

"You..."

Tune in next week and see what happens!...oh...it stops at the same place. Tune in next week and REALLY see what happens.



Really, they should have just had a two hour premiere with the flashacks not focuesd on anyone, but have a flashback or two from EVERYONE. We could have gotten Jack's stadium flashback, the Michael/stuffed polar bear flashback, a Locke on, a Kate one, Charlie, Claire, Sayid, Shannon....the list goes on.

I guess I considered the Jin and the Others as the cliffhanger from this episode, and the Jack's "You!" as a still unanswered cliff hanger. So I guess I see two cliff hangers out there and I'm the donkey chasing the carrot hung out in front of me. :p

Really, they should have just had a two hour premiere with the flashacks not focuesd on anyone, but have a flashback or two from EVERYONE. We could have gotten Jack's stadium flashback, the Michael/stuffed polar bear flashback, a Locke on, a Kate one, Charlie, Claire, Sayid, Shannon....the list goes on.


They could have but then wouldn't that just be a little drawn out or something. I mean I don't have anything against 2 hour premieres for the show but I think the way they did it was great just the same. So I don't think it was necessary to combine the two eppies together. Also I don't think Locke, Kate, Charlie, Claire, Sayid, Shannon....and so forth weren't a real necessity to having a flashback in fact if they did that. It would have just caused more confusion and more things that would be totally off the ricterscael (sp) if that happened.

Btw I love Lost I'm not trying to sound like I don't but that's my view about it.

Here we go with my long reply!

I'm amazed that so many people didn't like this episode. I thought it was awesome - not just a rehash of stuff we already know.

More over I am very suprised at how many people are actually offended that the episode was about what happened to Locke and Kate, and that the narrative didn't progress past Jack's realization that he knew the man. I really thought the stuff on the water was heart breaking, and very emotional, and not boring in the least.


As for Desmond and the hatch, we learned that he's not been watching the lostaways, that he's waiting for a replacement and has been for some time, that there's code riddle set for the replacement so this is or was an organized/possible governement experiment,

The speculation and theories about the hatch ran WILD over the summer, and I am not suprised there is a backlash against what actually is in the hatch, and how they are revealing it. I was a detractor of the finale. I did not like the finale last season, and man, I got jumped on for posting my thoughts, so perhaps this is a little revenge for me, because I really thought this was a great character oriented episode, and I thought ending it on nearly the same note as the last show was pure brilliance! It did not disappoint me.

that somehow a logo was placed on a shark that may or may not be organic, there's a countdown to something with 108 as the starting coutdown number, there was indeed a sickness so Rousseau wasn't crazy, and that he was shocked to know that people were actually living on the island and not dying. He thinks something cataclysmic happened. This is lots of info with amazing possibilities.

YEAH, all that was cool. I was half expecting to see Rouseau pop into the shower with this guy in last weeks episode. I'm very happy it's not a nanobots and space aliens direction to the storyline, but inevitably people will be disappointed when the story starts to defines what these mysteries are. It could happen to any one of us from here on out. But I will stick with the storyline as long as the new questions are as mezmerising and intriquing as these.

As for the raft scenes/flashback, those too were revealing. We didn't know that Michael legally fought for Walt. He wasn't being selfish, his girlfriend was. Also, didn't anyone think it was strange that Brion meets her, puts her in a ligh profile international law jobs straight out of law school in several foreign cities, marries her and wants to adopt her kid, then when mom dies wants to dump the kid ASAP? The conversations between her and Michael this epi were revealing to show how badly she wanted to separate Walt from Michael and not for the reasons she stated. Something is up with this back story that we don't know yet. Plus, little Walt was acting very strange during teh goodbye scene. It apepared to me to be more than just shyness.

I think Walt didn't want to leave wiht his Dad because he knew in the back of his mind something aweful would be in thier future. I still see posting about how the show is all about Walt, and how this is all happening in Walt's head. But I think we're talking old school spy stuff, and experiments on psychics was a BIG cold war activity.

These scenes also evidence a foil between Claire and Michael.
I have not looked it up, but I still wonder if the rooms they were in did not look similiar. The first thing that hit me when I saw the room was "Geez, that looks like the room they tried to get Claire to sign her baby away in!"

Claire didn't want to accept the responsibility for her kid and wanted to give him up but was manipulated into keeping him. Michael wanted to take care of his kid but was manipulated into giving him up then got him back when he didn't want him. Also, there is more to the polar bear stuffed animal gift. We have been given lots of clues involving snow/anarctica in the past, including the polar bear, penguin and comic book. In this epi, the polar bear toy was in a gift bag covered with little suns. The sun is on the mural wall in the hatch. The candy bar Kate ate, in a wonderfully funny scene, was named Appollo, who happens to be a god of the sun. This sympolism obviously means something.

The show is BIG on symbolism. It's steeped in it. One of the reasons I love it. And I'm not sure the polar bear stuffed animal gift was anything but a cool nod to last season. But, it certainly made me smile when I saw it.

As for the conversations between sawyer and Michael on teh raft, they were believeable. They both went from great joy at the thought of being rescued to sheer horror. They would start a blame game under those circumstances. Plus, Michael didn't really know that sawyer saved his life (I guess sawyer is a hero after all). I also liked the line sawyer said about the others wanting Walt all along. It's not often that the lostaways figure something out and share it with someone else. This could be a sign that they are actually going to talk to each other about what the hell is going on and share info. This show may not have have moved the plot along much, but it was chock full of info and totally engrossing. These little details, and character development, are what sets this show apart. Just my long-winded 2 cents.

Again, I enjoyed the show for the same reasons. I did feel like we are two shows now LOST on the island and LOST at sea, and that they kind of need to dedicate entire episodes to one or the other, and not mix them together like this, but at the same time, the short ocnversation between Locke and Desmond REALLY made the episode for me. I thought those scenes were terriffic, and masterfully done on all levels.

I was suprised to see folks bashing on it, and still am.

Noeland---------------------

Oh, I don't think it's ever in question if anyone on these boards loves Lost or not. Clearly, we all do, regardless of any views.
Yeah!

Wow!!
Thanks for your post, Noeland. You brought up some very interesting points I hadn't thought of before. Definitely opened my eyes up to some things.

Wow!!
Thanks for your post, Noeland. You brought up some very interesting points I hadn't thought of before. Definitely opened my eyes up to some things.

I have to agree. I mean, nothing is going to change my opinion of the episode 22 hours after its aired, but he picked out an awful lot from it and that was a very awesome list to think about. I hope some of these thoughts end up being true, so that at least in retrospect we will see that this episode gave us a bit more than we thought.

you know, this episode will never be in my Top Five list, but come on people, bad LOST is still better than anything else on TV.

Well he is the original poster and I am assuming that is a shot at me for my thread title. I'm sorry that the title of my thread is stupid and over-used. :drowsy:

It is over used...but it wasn't a shot at you.

It was a shot at the thread title regardless of who started it. Anyone who knows me knows that this has been a 'thing' with me since last season.

But most people ignore my moaning and groaning about it and do it all over again the next week...

So far, it hasn't been a letdown....though a little disappointed no Sayid brooding this week. However, Sawyer rocked in this episode and is now my favorite character.

And I am becoming strangely attracted to Desmond.

What are you talking about? The back story was kinda blah, but the revelations were fantastic. You must have passed out....the gift, the shark logo, the shot at kate....the conversation with Locke, the tick marks on the wall.....

What show were you watching?!?!?!?

Yeah, I agree. The backstory was - blah.

But everything going on with Sawyer and Michael! And then Kate/Jack/Locke/Desmond!! I can't wait till next week!!!

This episode wasn't in my opinion a snooze.The retelling of Michael and Walt's life was need for a reason.And that reason was in Michael's eyes he had failed his son again by not saving him from the "others". That is why Michael took it out on Sawyer and if Jin had been there Michael would have done the same thing to him. As for the Polarbear.It was to show us the viewers that the bear was already in Walt's subconscious. Yes he did bring it out to the island not to scare everyone but I think to get back at his father for not being around.And by doing this it caused major problems.

I don't think I buy the polar bear was caused by Walt, if that's what you mean by he brought it out.

If people think that the episode worked as far as being a well told story with solid dramatic values, then I'm not the least concerned that it didn't strike me that way at all. This is simply a difference of opinion about aesthetic matters.

But I do get peeved when people counter arguments about something being poorly written or edited or paced by asserting that none of this matters because important revelations were made. Important revelations could (and should) be made in an episode that was well edited and well paced and that hung together thematically. It could have a Michael flashback to show us that giving Walt up is on his mind and yet have provided some really new material about Michael's life at the same time we spot the polar bear. After all, we could get these same reverlations if we had 42 minutes of a title card saying that Michael gave Walt a polar bear, that the Dharma logo is on a shark threatening Michael and Sawyer, and that Desmond is expecting someone whom Locke turns out not to be. I would hope that title card episode would not be praised just because of the great revelations it contained.

Cardie

I don't think I buy the polar bear was caused by Walt, if that's what you mean by he brought it out. You need to back and watch the episode where his stepfather said Walt does things that normal little boys don't do.Walt is special that's why the "others" wanted him.

I remember that...there's a thread I started titled "walt's special powers". But I don't think his gift or powers or whatever are that powerful. Although I could be wrong, as I do think Walt is/will turn out to be a major component.

You need to back and watch the episode where his stepfather said Walt does things that normal little boys don't do.Walt is special that's why the "others" wanted him.

I hate Brian. There's more to him then we currently know.

You also found out that Desmond doesn't expect civilization to be around anymore, and he is suprised when it is.

To respond to the accusations of poor writing:

Was there any spoken poetry that my jaw drops at and I quickly try to remember the phrase so that I may endlessly repeat it and try to discover the nuance that caught my ear so that I can use it in my own writing? No. Was there wonderfully simple charcter driven dialouge powered by deeply motivated actors? Yes.

The speech by Michael at the end to the young Walt was quite moving to me. His difficulty in saying "daddy" was for me the entire episode. That is Michael. He struggles with his identity as a father, and for the first time, when he woke up on the raft in the morning, he realized what it truly meant to him. In the past, he told Walt that he "would always love you" but I think it wasn't until that morning that he absorbed the words into himself and acknowledged their true meaning. He will stop at absolutly nothing to save Walt.

The diaglouge between Michael and Sawyer on the raft, again, was simple yet poignant to who these two men are. Michael, having lost Walt, again, in a much more helpless circumstance is quite illogical and needlessly angry at Sawyer. Sawyer, having done another good deed and refused any kind of recognition, questions his role in life in general. He tries to do something kind, is refuted for it, and asks himself whether it meant anything at all. His dialogue is befuddled, confussed, and quite angry. He want to prove once again that he is a stong, independent person, and therefore decides to pull the bullet out himself. Followed by a quip before he passes out.

I thought the diaglouge between Locke and Desmond was also quite telling. I think people forget that Locke is a normal person. He isn't some god amoung men, or supervillan. He is what he says he is: a regional manager of a box company. They really don't have much training in dialouging was a seemingly crazed individual in a hatch in the middle of a "deserted" island. Locke is simply doing what comes to mind first and that is naive and erratic.

To respond to the accusations that "nothing" happened:

The reason I love Lost is because "nothing" happens. It's the fact that they will tell a story happening concurrently, ending at the exact same point, espcially in a mainstream show. I can see a sci-fi show or an HBO show using that trophe, but a network show, espcially one as popular as Lost? I am astounded that these writers are attempting to furthur was is "allowed" on network TV. What do they get? A large contingency crying out "worst episdoe ever!". But they did something new, they did something creative, and I was entertained and enthralled.

And for those who think the flashbacks are boring and pointless: please, stop watching Lost. It will only cause you more pain. Stop torturing yourselves. The flashbacks are not going to change, they aren't going to magically become something else and become what you want them to be, whatever that is. For those who apprciate them for what they are, and I am not going to furthur my rant explaining what I believe that is, we will continue enjoying them. And this wonderfully engaging show.

Thank you to those involved in another incredible hour of art.

On a satisfaction scale of One to LOST....this episode ranks at about -- imaginary peanut butter.

The Michael back story was dull, and added too little further insight into his character. The scenes on the raft likewise. Incidentally, who on the island is NOT trained in CPR?

Usually when I'm watching an episode, it comes to the flashback cutaway, and I think, "Dang, don't cut away from the island!" and then I get engrossed in the flashback and right when they go back to the island I think, "Dang, don't cut away from the flashback!" So I usually feep like I'm getting two complementary shows in one, each of which I realy enjoy. Not this time. They gotta give us something to chew on. The flashbacks usually center around a significant event in their lives that helped display or define their character in a different or deeper way to the audience. Again, not this time.

I actually thought the retelling of the down the hatch was clever, because think of how suspenseful and amazing it made the first episode, since we didn't know Kate or Locke's fate. If it was told chronologically, the Desmond reveal and the question of Kate's danger would have been blunted. However, this gamble in storytelling didn't pay off completely since the raft/flashback bits were so sub-par.

I don't want to say this either, but I have to hope Michael goes next, too, if they can't write any better than this for him. I like his acting, but in retrospect, his character has been consistenly written the poorest. He needs to have another side to him besides always blaming everyone else and threatening to kill people. Hopefully this upcoming story arc will bring it out of him. Heck, even Sawyer has been written as a more complex character. Even Charlie and Hurley, the comic reliefs are more complex.

Josh

Lets not jump the gun on the show haveing one bad episode, who knows what could happen next.

I agree that this episode was not very good. Michael is the least interesting character on the island. Additionally, we have already seen this information. HIs flashback was redundant, and considering that we have yet to really hear from Sun, Sayed (remember him?) etc. yet this year it was a bit tedious.

I cut them some slack on the flashback because they had to come up with a new one on short notice, and I think they just recycled the Walt-Susan-Michael material because the flashback hadn't gone thourgh the usual development process in the writers' room.

But Michael and Charlie have always been disadvantaged by their flashbacks because the writers have yet to come up with any of the big twists the other characters have been granted. A rock musician became a drug addict and ruined his life; a guy who doesn't earn very much money loses custody of his child to a mother who's on the fast track to riches and status. These are standard soap opera dilemmas and have none of the frisson of being miraculously cured of paralysis after your dad has stolen your kidney, or being a fugitive from the law, or hearing in a mental hospital a string of numbers that will win you the lottery, or having your father-in-law/boss be a sinister criminal, or turning into the very sort of confidence man who was responsible for your being orphaned at age eight, etc. etc.

Cardie

This goes back to the heart of my original complaint in post #34 (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=510501&postcount=34) of this thread! Why in the world should we cut them any slack because internal politics caused them to broadcast an inferior product? Does that mean we can expect a klunker every few episodes when the bean counters can't all agree with each other?

And I've seen mentioned a dozen times now that this was "supposed to be" Sawyer's flashback episode... how does everybody know that? And what's the official word on why it was changed?

This episode was suppose to be about Sawyer, with Jolene Blalock (aka. Sexy Vulcan chick on Enterprise) guest starring as Nikki, a girl from his past. Harrold himself said in an interview that they quickly changed it so that the story revolves around Michael, which makes sense cause the events on the raft have much more significance to Micheal than it does Sawyer. But I've heard quick changes like this can kill the shows budget.

Well, let's hope it was a one time mistake.

I think overall this episode was very sloppy and poorly executed. I give a 3 or 4 out of 10, but I did like the scenes in the hatch and the cliffhanger. Very entertaining stuff. I'm crossing my fingers the writers will have a good, believable explanation for this whole plotline involving Desmond and the hatch. I wasn't bothered by not having enough answers. I like the pace the writers are going at in revealing the island mysteries. The main reason I watch this show is for the characters, and I think the character development in Adrift was severely lacking. I agree with others who've said the incessant bickering and water splashing between Michael and Sawyer was cartoonish and beneath both characters. It felt to me like the writers were just forcing conflict to fill up airtime.

I don't think the flashback was that bad. It's something I'd like to see as deleted scenes in the dvd, but with so many characters to write for and so much happening on the island, it really stood out to me as unnecessary and a waste of precious time.


dangerdork, I really appreciate your well thought out reasoning here. Hope you stick around.

dangerdork, I really appreciate your well thought out reasoning here. Hope you stick around.

I second that!

Still, this story thread also seemed kind of padded out for my tastes. In conjunction with the redundant backstory and the raft thread seeming melodramatic, bloated and overwrought, the whole episode just really bothered me, not living up to my admittedly high expectations.

I still love the show - I don't hate it because of one bad episode. It just worries me that it may be a possible indicator of things to come.

First off...I loved your entire post...an excellent analogy of this particular episode, as well as the show in general :biggrin:

That being said, I'm going to now throw my two cents worth into the ring here.

While it may have originally been a Sawyer centric episode, I do truly believe that Michael's story was more poignant at this particular time. My opinion was that particular part of the story was to show the full cycle of Michael's mourning of the original loss of Walt when he was first taken away by his mother. At the time of the custody hearing, he was still healing from his accident, possibly still on pain medication which could have dulled his emotions and struggling with everything in his immediate life. He may have felt backed into a wall and had no other options at the time. Then, years later, Walt is back in his life and he now is at a loss as to how to handle the whole situation due to all of his previously unresolved pain, trust and anger issues. Fast forward a month or so later after the crash, after slow bonding and trust development, his son is now ripped away from him again in a manner he cannot control. The difference this time is that he is stripped of all outside insulating factors, so he must deal with his grief and confront his demons, as well as trust someone else if he is to go forward.

I think it also set up a very nice future Sawyer tie-in as you can see the pain on his face as Michael accuses him, rants at him and does everything initially to continue his original stereotype of him, even after it was Sawyer that saved his life. This is particularly evident when Michael tells Sawyer that he has never loved anyone (paraphrasing here). I thought it showed a great breaking down of walls between two men who do not trust or open up with anyone. It was also a great connection with Michael's comments to Sawyer that he must either want to be a hero or have a death wish.

And I think you covered the whole aspect of the Locke/Desmond/Kate scenario perfectly, so I can add nothing to that at all. :biggrin:

My whole impression of this episode was that it had great moments, tho disjointed at times. But I believe that perhaps the overwhelming desire of some of the fans to know everything now could be part of the problem. Those of us that invested emotionally in the characters last year now have a higher expectation, possibly unrealistically, in what we see this season, at least at first. But we have to remember our surprise last year when we found out Locke used to be in a wheelchair or that Shannon and Boone had a fling or that Jack had been married. Do we want these wonderful and delicate surprises ruined this season by our selfish desire to know everything NOW? It is a fine balancing act to keep your viewers, both new and old, and your network happy at the same time and one that may well continue to struggle during the next year. But the more we pick apart, demand answers, criticize and become skeptical, the more the writers will be thrown off course trying to please the masses. Please let them go back to how they do things and just sit back, relax and be surprised all over again this year :biggrin:

And sorry for the super long post...I just had to get it off my chest after reading 80 or so posts on this subject. Shoot all the arrows you want...just please put the rubber tips on them first cause I bruise easily :biggrin:

Some people confuse a slow storyline with a show or movie being boring. I really didn't mind this episode at all.. knowing that next week we'd all find out the significance of the hatch and all this exciting stuff will happen!

did anyone else spend the entire episode worrying about Jin?
me and my husband spent the whole episode worrying about him...lol. i told him i wasnt going to watch it anymore if they didnt tell me what happened to Jin *yeah right* i just thought it was kind of weak how they (michael and sawyer) didnt really worry about jin (i know, i know, they had enough to worry about, but still) i also didnt really like the flashback...too much stuff we already knew or could figure out ourselves. and how did jin get back to the island before michael and sawyer? hehe. just one of millions of questions being asked right?
much love, k~

did anyone else spend the entire episode worrying about Jin?
me and my husband spent the whole episode worrying about him...lol. i told him i wasnt going to watch it anymore if they didnt tell me what happened to Jin *yeah right* i just thought it was kind of weak how they (michael and sawyer) didnt really worry about jin (i know, i know, they had enough to worry about, but still) i also didnt really like the flashback...too much stuff we already knew or could figure out ourselves. and how did jin get back to the island before michael and sawyer? hehe. just one of millions of questions being asked right?
much love, k~
I agree Kaytie. You could hear Jin at the beginning of the episode, but they didn't go looking for him at all! And the flashbacks were incredibly pointless - maybe besides the polar bear. Maybe this will all just make next episode even better.

yeah...definetly...i guess i just want to know how jin made if back and got captured before them...did he swim? if he did, what about the shark? did he catch a ride with the "others"? *sigh* wednesday cant come fast enough.
much love, k~

What are you talking about? The back story was kinda blah, but the revelations were fantastic. You must have passed out....the gift, the shark logo, the shot at kate....the conversation with Locke, the tick marks on the wall.....

What show were you watching?!?!?!?


Shark logo. Does that have anything to do with the shark in the water with Michael and Sawyer

Yes, there was a logo similar to that of Desmond's on the back of the shark's body. You can see it in the underwater scene right before it gets shot. There's a thread with a screen cap about this.

This episode reminds me of when I was in college and had to write a 10 page essay, and only had enough stuff for 3. Padded!

Not everyone didn't like this episode because of the impatience factor. I still think "Adrift" was a bad episode because the editing, directing, writing, and acting were way below par for an episode of Lost, even if the info we learned will be important in the future (or all the clues that were imbedded in it that we need to find).

The scene cuts jumped and were jarring--especially the time redos with Locke, Jack, and the hatch. The emphasis was clearly misplaced on Sawyer and not Michael in terms of the flashbacks, and the directing was also obvious. Half the time you could practically see what the directors' told the actors to do ("Hey, Josh! Count to 5 while Harold's crying, then say your lines!"), or when they yelled "Action." If I wanted to know that info, I'd read the script.

The writing was incredibly thin, as well as contrived and stretching in crediblity. Sawyer loses all the bullets in the ocean, only to be able to find them all so that Michael can do the dramatic shark shooting? I don't think so. The writing also had many gaps, holes, and continuity errors. Where were Michael and Susan, anyways? USA? I thought Susan was in Amsterdam, and Michael was preventing her from moving to yet another country? Why would she be back in the US? And Locke saying they crashed 44 days ago? Whuh? Isn't this the morning after the season finale? They crashed 41 days ago.

They also didn't need nearly as many faux tension moments as they put in, all of which fell flat to me. Like I ever thought Sawyer, Michael, or Jin would be in any real danger. It absolutely was not like when they hanged Charlie, when I did think he was in danger--even though he's a main character. Jin's disappearance was particularly distracting--particularly since Michael got to scream for Walt, but Sawyer didn't think to scream for Jin until a half-hour into the episode.

The flashbacks were really uninspired. They didn't even make a twist on them to make it unique, like they usually do. I've always felt "Special" was the most formulaic episode (for the island buddy/buddy plot with Locke and Michael), I now think this one tops it. It really felt like they could have been written and filmed in a day--pretty much the only set used was that boardroom. And the acting was in general, fairly low key for such danger they were all supposed to be in. Sawyer and Michael came across as whiny babies. Even Dom (who's usually my favorite) didn't show either much alarm or concern during the Mother Mary scene. Made me think there really isn't any heroin in the statue.

I don't judge the episodes by how much was revealed, as that's not my concern. I don't expect every episode to answer questions, and this one at least had a few. "Outlaws" revealed pretty much nothing, but at least it was a well done episode (even if I didn't like it for other reasons--mainly because it made Sawyer a cold-blooded murderer for absolutely no reason). I don't even care that it was about Michael instead of Sawyer, because with Walt gone, obviously Michael's backstory needs to get some attention. His backstory isn't pointless.

I don't know but I'd be willing to bet that the viewers who are complaining about last night's episode are the same ones who complained that there weren't enough answers in the finale of last season.
But I do get peeved when people counter arguments about something being poorly written or edited or paced by asserting that none of this matters because important revelations were made.
I agree with Cardielost. This was just a poorly done episode. Even Lost is prone to having them occasionally. Heavens knows that not every episode from last season was spectacular either. Mostly, but not all. The season premiere was pretty good. "Adrift" could have been done so much better.

The blame game was slow, but what else would you expect them to do?
Cut it down with editing. Then write other scenes that weren't so redundant or fillered. We didn't even see Sayid or Shannon. We really did not need to see Sawyer's "rafts" fall apart three times. I got the point the first time. The bamboo isn't safe. And there's a shark in the water. Whoever suggested this should have been a 90 minute premiere (for the hatch stuff) and/or the rafters being put in the third episode had it right.

My real question is, how did Jin make it back to the Island so much quicker then Sawyer and Michael.
I'm of the idea Jin held onto the boat.

My biggest problem with the episode was the fact that last week they said you will know everyone's fate so I was looking forward to some information.
I have long since stopped listening to ABC's promos. Particularly since they tried to make us believe Sawyer was gunning for Jack in "Outlaws." Note how for the premiere they plastered Charlie's "They're here" line everywhere, only to find out he was talking about Jack and not the Others.

Oh, I liked Charlie and Claire. Thought it was the best scene. Emilie was spot on in her eye-roll, as was Dom on his "waddya mean, try and be funny?" Good that Claire finally called Charlie out. The level in regards to the heroin statue was just off.

And I can't be the only one who looked for peanut butter in that pantry Kate was in!

No, the level was too low-key. Very shrug shoulders, as if the statue is no importance both figuratively and literally. Dom should have at least widened his eyes, or something to show either that he was alarmed Claire found the statue, or tried to "pooh-pooh" that it's nothing to him. Anything to clue the audience in.

Charlie's reaction made it seem to me that the statue is just what it is: A statue. Not a statue that hides his all-gooey love drug. Everything else about the scene was great, it was just the level of importance of the statue that was off.

Not everyone didn't like this episode because of the impatience factor. I still think "Adrift" was a bad episode because the editing, directing, writing, and acting were way below par for an episode of Lost, even if the info we learned will be important in the future (or all the clues that were imbedded in it that we need to find).

Just had to post and say I totally agree with your post/s schoff!

It is not that this episode was horrible, it's just, in my opinion, it was the weakest link in an other wise very strong chain.

I am of the unique belief that it isn't so much the mystery of the show that makes Lost great, but rather how that mystery and suspense is executed. I would watch Lost even if I knew all the answers to every single question just because I enjoy the journey (and I have never seen such a well-crafted piece of television work in my life). This episode could've sounded really good on paper, but when it came down to bringing it to life, it kind of just flat lined.

The way the statue was just out in the open, you'd think Charlie would be afraid of Sayid spotting it...

I thought it was interesting the way he goofed off and laughed at Aaron. He was genuinely almost happy..then came the statue and it turned into a 'my precious' kind of moment. Not a real happiness at all..it was that 'fake' faux satisfaction that accompanies addiction.

See, I saw it as just the opposite... Charlie was too nonchalant. We knew as well as Charlie did that the statue is full of smack, and he was putting on an act for her so she doesn't become suspicious of why the statue is so important to him. That's what I thought was so deliciously subtle, was our watching his deception of her, and all the implications of that. Plus I thought it very well done that he hands back the baby and takes the statue, demonstrating which is really more important to him.I thought his capper confirmed it too: "it may come in handy sometime...." And go back and look at the barely concealed hunger in his expression as he said that. A sophisticated bit of acting, that.
I thought Charlie played that scene very well - my take was him thinking OMG - gotta find a way to put Mary somewhere safe and not make it obvious I'm doing so - so I'll just more or less change the subject. When he handed Aaron to Claire - I thought wow.. she's gonna figure there's some importance - and he just stashed the statue and tried to not make a big deal about it.

Overall, I think in time this episode will make more sense as to why it didn't advance the various storylines more. One purpose was to get the raftees to land - and I think it would have been worse if they just got back on the raft remains and whoop there's the land - so there had to be some time that passed. While I don't think they made very good use of that time, I'm not really sure what else they could have done - except calling for Jin sooner. We have 2 guys on bamboo floating - one guy having just been shot and the other having had his son taken. We have to get from the water to land. We see a shark with a logo on it. Regarding the hatch and Desmond - we started out knowing that Locke and Kate were down there and Jack was down there searching. In order to satisfy the need for us to see what was in the hatch, the story goes back to the perspective of Locke and Kate - who were already down when we saw Jack's POV. So to accomplish this, we go back to before Jack comes down (thankfully, Jill didn't come tumbling after) and now we get to see more specifics - answering the questions regarding where Desmond gets his food, introducing the "corporate logo" everywhere (which ties to the shark), showing that THE numbers are quite important to something, and have to be entered to reset some timer..
My point being that while it didn't seem to go anywhere, overall it did answer a lot of questions and introduce new things - I dont think the purpose was to advance in time - it was more to advance what we know about the hatch by showing what is there.

See, I saw it as just the opposite... Charlie was too nonchalant. We knew as well as Charlie did that the statue is full of smack, and he was putting on an act for her so she doesn't become suspicious of why the statue is so important to him. That's what I thought was so deliciously subtle, was our watching his deception of her, and all the implications of that. I thought Charlie played that scene very well - my take was him thinking OMG - gotta find a way to put Mary somewhere safe and not make it obvious I'm doing so - so I'll just more or less change the subject.
See, now normally I would totally buy that, but this is Charlie we're talking about. The boy could not be subtle if his life depended on it. He can't even run a few yards without tripping over his own feet. "Nonchalant" is not something Charlie can do (Dom, yes, Charlie, no), unless he's also inadvertantly (and/or subtly) giving something away--which Dom specifically did not do. It doesn't have to be big, and can be specifically for the audience (like his withdrawal when he stole that thing from Lucy's house in "Homecoming"), but we got nada. Not even a guilty, surprised, or shifty look. That's what makes it stand out IMO.

For an actor who takes pains to know where his character is coming from, and to always be in character no matter what (twitching in the background, twirling his hair, avoiding eye contact), I find his lack of reaction to the statue out of character. He didn't even linger on it as he was putting it back in his bag.

I think someone who had never seen the show before would be able to tell that there was something fishy going on with him.
Heh. I guess I'm just gonna have to disagree! I think it has more to do with people who've seen the show before and would know there's supposed to be heroin in the statue, and can therefore attribute certain motives/facial expressions/etc to his behavior.

I didn't think it came across that the statue meant anything to Charlie other than a plain ol' statue of the Virgin Mary. I thought he played it more religiously than drug addictedly.

I won't post my thoughts on this episode as I did so in another thread that was locked due to insults flying from those that just loved it.

As painful as it was, I watched it a second time. One correction to a previous post I read. After Sawyer has Michael breathing and sitting up, he does call for Jin once although not in an overly loud voice. Then ages pass before he does so again.

I also spent most of the raft scenes wondering where is Jin? If not worried over Jin (I find that character intriguing) I was furious with Michael (don't especially enjoy that character or care if I discover another thing about him). Michael turned his back on Sawyer when Sawyer's seperate raft piece fell apart and Sawyer is trying to swim back to Michael's and get aboard. Not once did Michael help or even look over his shoulder. Blame Sawyer if you must for your son's disappearance but allow the man to drown or be eaten? (I will give Michael this, at the end he finally took responsibility on himself for placing Walt on the raft in the first place.)

I don't want all the answers and never have. I love the mystery but I have come to expect excellent writing, a certain pace and timing. This episode just didn't have that LOST feeling and edge to it. With few exceptions, good programs on the air in the past were sooner or later taken over by the powers that be at the networks telling the writers and directors how they think it should be done. Result? They ruin it. My hope is this is not happening to LOST.

I don't want all the answers and never have. I love the mystery but I have come to expect excellent writing, a certain pace and timing. This episode just didn't have that LOST feeling and edge to it. With few exceptions, good programs on the air in the past were sooner or later taken over by the powers that be at the networks telling the writers and directors how they think it should be done. Result? They ruin it. My hope is this is not happening to LOST.

According to David Fury, co-executive producer last season and writer of Walkabout, it is. He's said in interviews that ABC and the studio hates the supernatural aspect of the show and, around the time he was writing Solitary, began slowing down and altering the development of the island mythology because they feared the answers are too sci-fi and would alienate the audience. I suspect this is one of the reasons Fury left the show before the first season was even over. I think there's been a steep decline in quality ever since he left.

Have you seen Javi's response to Fury's statements? They are in his blog...

I really struggled through this episode. I think part of it is even though I try, I just don't care about Michael. I see him strictly as peripheral to Walt. I accept that all the castaways have a reason for being on the island. Since Michael's reason, at least as far as I can tell, is to bring Walt, I don't care about his backstory.

Have you seen Javi's response to Fury's statements? They are in his blog...

Can you give a link?

Cardie

Can you give a link?

Cardie

I'm looking for it..its buried deep in a thread around here somewhere and I forgot who posted


Edit:


it.http://www.livejournal.com/users/chaodai/

Here's the link to his blog but unfortunately that entry has been deleted.

What he said in effect was that Fury was 'never' in on the mythology' of the series and was basically against the idea of Locke being in a wheelchair. We know of course now that Walkabout was nominated for a writing Emmy.

I myself have no opinion of Fury one way or the other.

What he said in effect was that Fury was 'never' in on the mythology'
Carlton Cuse said this in a radio interview recently as well. I guess Abrams, Cuse, and Lindelof are the only ones who know the whole outline.

Hehheh, this thread reminds me of the way people used to whine and moan about some of the later episodes last season. It got so bad that we started jokingly making threads called "Worst episode EVER!" For EVERY episode that came out, no matter how good it was. People would post all of their nonsense in that thread, it was hilarious. Stuff like, "I really hated the part where those pirates were riding polar bears. All that "arr matey" talk really dragged the plot down! They should only bring the pirates out for one or two episodes per season tops, not every time they think there is a great need for plot exposition!"

or

"Finally!!! I just had to talk about how boring the flashbacks are in this episode and how the mystery has just not moved." (An actual thread made in jest about "Exodus pt. 1").

How history repeats itself! heh.

Well, the voice over at the beginning of the show stated that "Tonight! The fate of ALL of the survivors will be REVEALED!!" I dont think this episode revealed anything of the sort. :ohwell:

If there's anything I learned from season 1, it's not to put much stock in ABC's teasers. Just remember they are made to hype up the episode and get as many people to watch as possible...

I read Javi's dish on his blog about Fury. I should have copied it--should have known it would be deleted. Rather strident, I thought.

The funny thing was, if you read Fury's and Javi's comments closely, there was basically no factual disagreement. And in the DVD commentaries there are admissions of things that were retroactively put into episodes to "foreshadow" a new plot.

Hehheh, this thread reminds me of the way people used to whine and moan about some of the later episodes last season. It got so bad that we started jokingly making threads called "Worst episode EVER!" For EVERY episode that came out, no matter how good it was. People would post all of their nonsense in that thread, it was hilarious. Stuff like, "I really hated the part where those pirates were riding polar bears. All that "arr matey" talk really dragged the plot down! They should only bring the pirates out for one or two episodes per season tops, not every time they think there is a great need for plot exposition!"

or

"Finally!!! I just had to talk about how boring the flashbacks are in this episode and how the mystery has just not moved." (An actual thread made in jest about "Exodus pt. 1").

How history repeats itself! heh.

I posted on that thread..it was fun. ;)

Have you seen Javi's response to Fury's statements? They are in his blog...

Yes, though he was responding to Fury's recent comments about the lack of a master plan by the writers, not his comments about interference from the network.

I read Javi's dish on his blog about Fury. I should have copied it--should have known it would be deleted. Rather strident, I thought.

The funny thing was, if you read Fury's and Javi's comments closely, there was basically no factual disagreement. And in the DVD commentaries there are admissions of things that were retroactively put into episodes to "foreshadow" a new plot.

I agree. Nothing Fury said has really been contradicted, imo. They just seem to have different definitions for a "master plan." I think it's clear there was no master plan last season, though there may be one now. It seems Javi deleted his blog post after talking to Fury, and, as he said, that things are being resolved amicably.