So I was watching this show inbetween ABC's hour block of commercials called "Lost" that we all know and enjoy, and this one happened to be the most disappointing episode of the two seasons. This episode was slow-paced, almost empty on information, and included a pointless flashback with nothing interesting in it.

We were opened with scenes from "Exodus" and "Man of Science, Man of Faith", the second of two being pointless not only because the episode aired right before it, but also because we were treated to the very same scenes in this episode. Okay, so as we looked back in time there were some interesting bits seeing Kate and Locke in the hatch. But there was wayy too much of it that just seemed like extra footage added in to fill out the entire episode. After that and seeing the same scene in the last episode of Jack down there I feel taken advantage of as a regular viewer of Lost. This sends a message to me that now that the show has solid consistent ratings, they can afford to put out crap episodes like this one and waste our time a little.

Michael's flashback was pointless. We already knew that Michael loved his kid and agreed to let him go away. For anyone that really cared to see that he was reluctant about letting him go, fine, alright, but it still dragged on far too long. We recieved nothing interesting from it. We didn't even see the beginnings of Walt's powers or anything that could have possibly added to the story. I didn't see anything in this episode that helped the story or Michael's character. We didn't need an hour devoted to Michael being upset that his son is gone. Michael and Sawyer bickering with each other that it was each other's fault was stupid and I can't even see it happening realistically. The surprise at the end doesn't justify a completely worthless and empty episode. The actors did an amazing job as always, but the writers dropped the ball in this episode, and they dropped it hard.

As a big fan of Lost, this scares me. Is this what we can expect for the rest of the season? Was it such a big mistake to lose the writers over the summer? Are the commercial breaks someday going to be longer than the actual show? I certainly hope we will never see an episode like this again.

Yeah Andy, we know...We're talking about it HERE>>>http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=20027&page=2

Well I disagree with the island interaction being stupid...I enjoyed all of it...

But I agree that Michael's flashback's were really pointless...

However you have to remember that up until recently this episode had been shot as a Sawyer flashback episode...and was changed not that long ago. They had to shoot Michaels' scenes...(not to mention come up with them) pretty much on the fly. We didn't learn anything new about his situation...I agree...but I'm going to assume that it was because they had to make the change without enough time.

No one knows the real reason the episode was changed..but we do know that the Sawyer flashback's were shot a month ago and were ready to go...and then the direction of the episode was changed.

Personally I could see it in the structure...It really seemed like Sawyer was more the focus in the raft scenes than Michael was...

Errr... I thought it was a cleverly done episode. In lieu of doing a two-hour premiere, they did this. And the whole point of the flashbacks was to show Michael that it was HIS fault for what happened to Walt.

And as to the whole episode just being them floating on the water... so what? It created tension and allowed for some blame to be placed and arguing to be had... it was character-building rather than plot-building.


The only thing I really DIDN'T like all that much was the tired old cliche of somebody realizing that the other person (Desmond in this case) believes they are someone else, and pretending to be that person. Thankfully it didn't last very long. But that part seemed a bit ham-handed in how it was presented.

dp

Wow!!! Negative vibes, man. The writers did drag their feet in the plot a little bit, but later on some of the little details may make a difference.
I feel frustrated too, but look at it this way. The longer and slower the foreplay is the better you enjoy the experience.
I hope...

I thought it was interesting that the stuffed animal Michael gave his son was
a white polar bear!

My BF hated this epi too because of the fact that we only advanced 5 minutes. I think it was a pretty good one because it answered a lot of the questions we had from the premiere and it proved that some of our ideas are correct. (See Locke took of his shoes so he could creep around!)

I also think it was a good one because it keeps us in suspense for next week since we found out that:

there are "others"!!! The other survivors of 815...yay!

um, Andy, are you sure you watched the same eppy as the rest of us?

is the art of storytelling completely lost on you? this show is NOT about instant
gratification. it is about telling a story. and painting the picture with a wide variety
of colors not just black and white.

you of course are entitled to your opinion but i think that you are off the mark.

I have to say that I loved the flashbacks. As a new father myself, I really had empathy for Michael. I wanted to throw something at the female lawyer, and my heart was being ripped out as Michael struggled to speak to the son he hardly knew. Michael has always been one of my favorite characters, and it was great to see more of his life. I feel it really enriched my undertanding of him...

You could tell the Michael flashbacks were thrown in at the last minute but, the bit about the stuffed polar bear made it more "bearable," if you will. Lol!

So I was watching this show inbetween ABC's hour block of commercials called "Lost" that we all know and enjoy, and this one happened to be the most disappointing episode of the two seasons. This episode was slow-paced, almost empty on information, and included a pointless flashback with nothing interesting in it.

We were opened with scenes from "Exodus" and "Man of Science, Man of Faith", the second of two being pointless not only because the episode aired right before it, but also because we were treated to the very same scenes in this episode. Okay, so as we looked back in time there were some interesting bits seeing Kate and Locke in the hatch. But there was wayy too much of it that just seemed like extra footage added in to fill out the entire episode. After that and seeing the same scene in the last episode of Jack down there I feel taken advantage of as a regular viewer of Lost. This sends a message to me that now that the show has solid consistent ratings, they can afford to put out crap episodes like this one and waste our time a little.

Michael's flashback was pointless. We already knew that Michael loved his kid and agreed to let him go away. For anyone that really cared to see that he was reluctant about letting him go, fine, alright, but it still dragged on far too long. We recieved nothing interesting from it. We didn't even see the beginnings of Walt's powers or anything that could have possibly added to the story. I didn't see anything in this episode that helped the story or Michael's character. We didn't need an hour devoted to Michael being upset that his son is gone. Michael and Sawyer bickering with each other that it was each other's fault was stupid and I can't even see it happening realistically. The surprise at the end doesn't justify a completely worthless and empty episode. The actors did an amazing job as always, but the writers dropped the ball in this episode, and they dropped it hard.

As a big fan of Lost, this scares me. Is this what we can expect for the rest of the season? Was it such a big mistake to lose the writers over the summer? Are the commercial breaks someday going to be longer than the actual show? I certainly hope we will never see an episode like this again.


Just what was you looking for? all the answers in one episode? I have watched this show from the first minute, and I loved tonights eppy. Perhaps you missed the fact that Mike gave Walt a stuffed polar bear the last time he saw him, thatv the mural in the hatch has some of the numbers in it, that Sawyer was acting in typical Sawyer fashion, Kate and the candy bars, the shark had the same insignia on its skin as that worn by Desmond, that the numbers were the same desmond told locke to type in the computer, and one of the best lines.. '" that?, that would be Jack"

Have to disagree Andy - I liked that the eppy fleshed out exactly what happened as Kate, then Locke went into the hatch.
I found the scene of Michael and Sawyer blaming each other for what happened believable.
Something bad happens and most ppl want some other guy to blame - hey they only had each other! And I think the whole exchange forged a bond between them.

I took some notes as I was watching and this is what I wrote about the Susan & Michael alone scene (without the lawyers)
" Susan 'guilts' Michael out of fighting for Walt. ... "Not about you or me - it's about him.
Let him go"
Not that my observations mean more than anyone else's but I felt like I got more of an understanding of Michael and his giving up his son. And then - blow me away - Michael gives Walt a stuffed polar bear! Talk about it coming back around!!!!!

um, Andy, are you sure you watched the same eppy as the rest of us?

is the art of storytelling completely lost on you? this show is NOT about instant
gratification. it is about telling a story. and painting the picture with a wide variety
of colors not just black and white.

you of course are entitled to your opinion but i think that you are off the mark.

I completely take offense to your insult. This is a drama series, not a soap opera. We had very little character development in this episode. We were teased this whole episode and we got nothing from it. We had a shark for suspense, and we were rewarded with nothing from it. We didn't have any big struggle against the shark, we had Sawyer swimming away from it and Michael shooting it in a 5 second scene. Wow huh? We had some awful dialogue from Michael and Sawyer. Each blaming each other for what happened to Walt. This was very unrealistic. Michael would instantly be blaming himself like he was in the end of the episode. Their bickering went on WAY too long and nearly bored me out of my chair.

Other than a few answers in the hatch we got a very uneventful episode that dragged. Charlie's scene with Claire wasn't necessary. The stuffed polar bear was the only interesting part of Michael's flashback. We didn't get any worthwhile answers in his flashback, we weren't even raised any new questions. This whole episode felt like something that should be found in the "deleted scenes" menu of a DVD. I guess every series has to have it's worst episode, but the writer's really let me down on this one. It was some very poor storytelling if you ask me.

"We had a shark for suspense, and we were rewarded with nothing from it."
If there is a symbol on the shark how can you call that nothing?

Charlie and Claire's exchange was improtant. The Virgin Mary has heroin in it. I know last season we were trying to figure out if Charlie would ever tell Claire about his addiction. She said she didn't know he was so religious when he told her to be "careful" with it and snatched it out of her hands. He said he might need it later. I thought that was pretty important because it lets us know about the fact that temptation is there and he may relapse.

Definently not the worse.....very far from being the best....i really wouldnt even call it good.

The show is a puzzle. Some people appreciate it, others dont. We have to piece together the characters and their flashbacks, piece together their actions on the island with their history, and find and piece together various clues that are randomly placed in the show.

Looking for someone to announce the findings? You probably wont like it. But if you like being able to look around at the background and coming up with some interesting conclusions based on random symbols, signs, sound bits and heck even colors this will be right up your alley.

This show is reminding me more and more of a online adventure point and click game.

"We had a shark for suspense, and we were rewarded with nothing from it."
If there is a symbol on the shark how can you call that nothing?

That has nothing to do with what I said. Of course that was interesting and something I didn't pick up on until I came to the forums (poor eyesight). But that just gave us a new question, it had nothing to do with the suspense. The danger factor of it really was a miss with me, probably because Michael and Sawyer seemed so uninterested in the shark and were just bickering at each other the entire time. The climax of the bit lasted about 3 seconds, as we saw Sawyer swimming away and the shark was behind. Michael just shoots the shark, and Sawyer disappears. The conflict with the shark would have been better if they focused on it more, instead of not paying any attention to it. The shark bit was such a big miss to me that it seemed pointless to even include it. The element of danger wasn't strong, the shark didn't seem very aggressive after the beginning, and it was all just a mess. I hated it.

Charlie and Claire's exchange was improtant. The Virgin Mary has heroin in it. I know last season we were trying to figure out if Charlie would ever tell Claire about his addiction. She said she didn't know he was so religious when he told her to be "careful" with it and snatched it out of her hands. He said he might need it later. I thought that was pretty important because it lets us know about the fact that temptation is there and he may relapse.

Well that was nothing different than what we got at the end of Exodus. What would have been interesting would be Claire finding out whats inside of it.

That has nothing to do with what I said. Of course that was interesting and something I didn't pick up on until I came to the forums (poor eyesight). But that just gave us a new question, it had nothing to do with the suspense. The danger factor of it really was a miss with me, probably because Michael and Sawyer seemed so uninterested in the shark and were just bickering at each other the entire time. The climax of the bit lasted about 3 seconds, as we saw Sawyer swimming away and the shark was behind. Michael just shoots the shark, and Sawyer disappears. The conflict with the shark would have been better if they focused on it more, instead of not paying any attention to it. The shark bit was such a big miss to me that it seemed pointless to even include it. The element of danger wasn't strong, the shark didn't seem very aggressive after the beginning, and it was all just a mess. I hated it. You wouldnt have found the premise of a looming shark to be a bit cliche? I mean it was there and even the writers added in a bit of Sawyer saying "oh its just a shark". Because the reality of the island is that a shark really is the least of the worries.

You wouldnt have found the premise of a looming shark to be a bit cliche? I mean it was there and even the writers added in a bit of Sawyer saying "oh its just a shark". Because the reality of the island is that a shark really is the least of the worries.

Yes I did find it very cliche! I would have rather it had been the smoke monster or something, At least the symbol on it made it worth being there in the first place. However, when you're half in the water, bleeding, and there's a shark just under your feet I think its momentarily at the top of your worries.

Plus, the shark's tail had that Dharma sign on it.

I thought this eppy was great. The flashback was kinda meh but it didn't really bother me. :) The whole raft thing was awesome and I almost had a heart attack when the shark was going towards Sawyer. I didn't find it to be a cliche at all. Come on, it's the ocean....there are lots of sharks out there.

Yes I did find it very cliche! I would have rather it had been the smoke monster or something, At least the symbol on it made it worth being there in the first place. However, when you're half in the water, bleeding, and there's a shark just under your feet I think its momentarily at the top of your worries.

I can see your point, but there has to be a general feeling of hopelessness while on the makeshift rafts. Personally? I would care. After going through all of that and knowing more was on the way? Probably would be more blaise.

I like how they made the shark mostly a non issue.

As for the Michael flashbacks, I liked them for emotional value. Of course they didnt have much to the ongoing saga, but it did kind of tell you Michael gave his son up once, there was no way in hell he was doing it again.

If anyone is keeping score, mark me down as someone who also like the episode. Was it the best one? No--in terms of shock value and suspense, last week's was by far much better. But it had its own interesting bits. Even in the slow episodes, my mind goes a million miles and hour trying to piece together the clues, and notice the stuff in the background.

Perhaps I am just too easy to please. But I just sit back and enjoy the ride. Some trips are going to be a bit faster than others, but I'm here for the long haul.

I see have few people mention Michael's flashbacks being pointless. I dont see them as pointless. They go to show how much losing Walt hurt him and really brought home how tuff it would be to lose him again. I'm sure thats gonna be a running theme in the next few episodes....

I see have few people mention Michael's flashbacks being pointless. I dont see them as pointless. They go to show how much losing Walt hurt him and really brought home how tuff it would be to lose him again. I'm sure thats gonna be a running theme in the next few episodes....

True that was focused on very strongly, but his flashback still felt really empty, to me anyways. Maybe i'm just incredibly unsatisfied with this episode because the twists and surprises are what got me hooked, and nothing of the sort shocked or surprised me in this episode.

Well the symbol on the shark is a very intriguing turn. That tends to show some type of animal research at least on the island. Which may help to explain what desmond is doing there.

Funny thing is I thought the shark was a sub with the symbol on it. I thought they were bumping into the "supply" sub (the one that brings the goodies to Desmond) when in fact they were bumping into the other part of the raft. I'm just thinking we have the color set all wrong on the tv. It looked way too dark!

I have ben reading alot about why folks thought the flashbacks were pointless. I could not disagree more. I think showing Michael lose Walt before, or, haven him taken away as before, really drove him the dramatic purpose of this episode. I'm guessing they changed it to a Michael episode because there was probably something not working right on a creative level for Sawyers back story. I'm guessing, had it aired as a Sawyer backstory the complainers would be posting "This should have been a Michael episode! Why did they focus on Sawyer, his son wasn't taken!"

The show is getting to the point now where it is going to choose a direction, it's going to have to choose a narrative and define some things, and that is going to disappoint a lot of people who WANT the show to be something else. It's too bad, because this was a great episode.

Noeland--------------------------------

um, Andy, are you sure you watched the same eppy as the rest of us?

is the art of storytelling completely lost on you? this show is NOT about instant
gratification. it is about telling a story. and painting the picture with a wide variety
of colors not just black and white.

you of course are entitled to your opinion but i think that you are off the mark.

I agree 100% I was telling my wife before the show started how long till the losers that live and die LOST will start to whine about the show.

I for one thought it was a good episode. It built some tension between mike and sayer. Plus also showed us a lot more about the hatch. Quit whinning and enjoy the show or go watch Americas Next Dancer/Idol/Model or whatever else the brainless idiots are watching.

Just what was you looking for? all the answers in one episode? I have watched this show from the first minute, and I loved tonights eppy. Perhaps you missed the fact that Mike gave Walt a stuffed polar bear the last time he saw him, thatv the mural in the hatch has some of the numbers in it, that Sawyer was acting in typical Sawyer fashion, Kate and the candy bars, the shark had the same insignia on its skin as that worn by Desmond, that the numbers were the same desmond told locke to type in the computer, and one of the best lines.. '" that?, that would be Jack"

No way! The Shark..in the water? Had the same insignia?

What was that candy bar Kate was eating again? What is it's circa date? How long has it been stored in the hatch?

My wife says to me...I can't believe she isn't raiding the food. Seriously, I woulda kicked back for :20 and let my eyes roll to the back of my head if I'd been waiting 44 days for some substantial sustenance...

Other than a few answers in the hatch we got a very uneventful episode that dragged. Charlie's scene with Claire wasn't necessary.
I disagree--there are many of us who were waiting in suspense to see if Charlie would give in to temptation and see if he would fall back into his old ways even though he now has Claire and Aaron. The fact that he took it adds to his character, showing that he isn't as strong as we thought/hoped.

actually, we did see one IMPORTANT thing in Michael's flashback - he gave Walt a stuffed POLAR BEAR. hmmmmmmm......

I have ben reading alot about why folks thought the flashbacks were pointless. I could not disagree more. I think showing Michael lose Walt before, or, haven him taken away as before, really drove him the dramatic purpose of this episode. I'm guessing they changed it to a Michael episode because there was probably something not working right on a creative level for Sawyers back story. I'm guessing, had it aired as a Sawyer backstory the complainers would be posting "This should have been a Michael episode! Why did they focus on Sawyer, his son wasn't taken!"

The show is getting to the point now where it is going to choose a direction, it's going to have to choose a narrative and define some things, and that is going to disappoint a lot of people who WANT the show to be something else. It's too bad, because this was a great episode.

Noeland--------------------------------

I actually liked this episode as well. The only thing I could have done without is the Previously On part :)

I thought this was one of the best episodes yet, actually. At some points I was thinking they were giving away a lot more answers than usual.

What was that candy bar Kate was eating again? What is it's circa date? How long has it been stored in the hatch? I wondered that too. I went to the store that sells discontinued candy and Apollo candy was listed but they no longer had it in stock. I haven't had time to search for when it was discontinued but I found this cute sign that's supposed to date back to the thirties http://pages.tias.com/2381/PictPage/1921412232.html (scroll down)

Errr... I thought it was a cleverly done episode. In lieu of doing a two-hour premiere, they did this. And the whole point of the flashbacks was to show Michael that it was HIS fault for what happened to Walt.

And as to the whole episode just being them floating on the water... so what? It created tension and allowed for some blame to be placed and arguing to be had... it was character-building rather than plot-building.


The only thing I really DIDN'T like all that much was the tired old cliche of somebody realizing that the other person (Desmond in this case) believes they are someone else, and pretending to be that person. Thankfully it didn't last very long. But that part seemed a bit ham-handed in how it was presented.

dp

But I think you missed the point of that scene where Desmond asks Locke if he's "him." Giving the riddle to solve was showing us that Desmond has been waiting for a replacement or information on what to do next. This is vital information! It leads me to believe that it's a government project because that's how spies identify their contacts ... with a riddle or everyday saying that the right person must know the reply to.

Heh, if this was a bad episode? It was still way better then invasion was. Though I gotta say I havent given up on invasion yet.

I disagree--there are many of us who were waiting in suspense to see if Charlie would give in to temptation and see if he would fall back into his old ways even though he now has Claire and Aaron. The fact that he took it adds to his character, showing that he isn't as strong as we thought/hoped.

And we're still in suspense. We knew he took the drugs in Exodus.

I agree 100% I was telling my wife before the show started how long till the losers that live and die LOST will start to whine about the show.

I for one thought it was a good episode. It built some tension between mike and sayer. Plus also showed us a lot more about the hatch. Quit whinning and enjoy the show or go watch Americas Next Dancer/Idol/Model or whatever else the brainless idiots are watching.

How very mature of you. I speak my opinion and you call me a loser, whiner, and brainless idiot?

This is very weird for me to be on the opposite side of the tracks here. I've never hated an episode of Lost, and i've seen every one of them. I'm usually the one in topics like this saying what I liked about it. I like to think that my opinion matters, and this place is the most public forum for Lost that I know of where lots of people will see what I have to say. If your opinion is different, i'm certainly not going to attack or insult you for it. I'm just here in this topic to voice, explain, and defend my opinion.

My opinion of this episode definitely hasn't changed but I am relieved to hear about some cool things I didn't pick up when watching the episode originally - The shark having the symbol on it, and Michael giving Walt a polar bear (I had no idea what it was).

Heh, if this was a bad episode? It was still way better then invasion was. Though I gotta say I havent given up on invasion yet.

Not to detract from the conversation, but Invasion completely lost me with this episode. It failed to keep my interest and failed to make me anymore concerned about the characters. I have to question their choice of cast. Some of them just seem so disconnected from the characters they are playing. As if they don't match up.

Watching that, it just reiterates how tricky it is to cast a television series and just how on the button Lost got it.

um, Andy, are you sure you watched the same eppy as the rest of us?

is the art of storytelling completely lost on you? this show is NOT about instant
gratification. it is about telling a story. and painting the picture with a wide variety
of colors not just black and white.

you of course are entitled to your opinion but i think that you are off the mark.
Exactly! There were people from last season that wanted more answers, too. I guess there are just going to be those people. But I have trust (or as Locke would say, "Faith") that JJ and his group know what they are doing. After all, this isn't the first show he's had that was a success. He knows how to do it and how to do it right. For example, if we'd been told what the numbers meant by the second epidsode, I'd have been really left feeling flat. I mean, look how long it took for Locke to get the hatch open ... why should it take any less time to unravel the rest of the plot(s)? I don't want them to change anything that they're doing.

Can't wait for next week! :biggrin:

Just what was you looking for? all the answers in one episode? I have watched this show from the first minute, and I loved tonights eppy. Perhaps you missed the fact that Mike gave Walt a stuffed polar bear the last time he saw him, thatv the mural in the hatch has some of the numbers in it, that Sawyer was acting in typical Sawyer fashion, Kate and the candy bars, the shark had the same insignia on its skin as that worn by Desmond, that the numbers were the same desmond told locke to type in the computer, and one of the best lines.. '" that?, that would be Jack"
Echo, you're so right! And that line of Locke's was PRICELESS! I cracked up when he said that! So "Locke!"

I wondered that too. I went to the store that sells discontinued candy and Apollo candy was listed but they no longer had it in stock. I haven't had time to search for when it was discontinued but I found this cute sign that's supposed to date back to the thirties http://pages.tias.com/2381/PictPage/1921412232.html (scroll down)
I'm also having trouble finding a pix of the Apollo Chocolates that look like what Kate found (the current style seems to be Japanese and is made in the form of little Apollo rockets ... the Asian connection might apply but I doubt it). But I did find this link that dates to 1997 (the year that Desmond met Jack!). http://pages.kovels.com/55/InventoryPage/1098374/1.html

I also found this image from a box of the candies: http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chocolatebox5al.jpg and there is that Asian connection again. But the descroption gives no date. However, the way those bars were wrapped were modern or at least within the last 10-15 years and not like the ones from the 1920s or earlier (I found reference to them as far back as "the early 1900s).

I disagree--there are many of us who were waiting in suspense to see if Charlie would give in to temptation and see if he would fall back into his old ways even though he now has Claire and Aaron. The fact that he took it adds to his character, showing that he isn't as strong as we thought/hoped.


Charlie is an addict. That has nothing to do with how strong or how weak he is.

The Charlie Claire scene was a transitional scene.

If you notice the writers use transitional scenes in this program. Sometimes they 'trasition' back to a episode before..sometimes they give us hints of things to come by using a scene that may not move that particular episode forward but it does move that particular story forward but we may not see the rest of it until a few weeks later.

The Charlie/Claire scene looked out of place to some in this episode but it moved THEIR particular story forward a little bit. Claire has found the statue...Charlie is defensive and treating it like 'my precious'.

Most of these fillers and semingly pointless little scenes DO have a purpose even if we don't realize what it is right at that moment.

I definitely liked the episode. It was a bit of an odd format-- the whole episode was really one big flashback (with Michael's even older flashbacks embedded in that). Since it technically took place during the premiere, the story didn't advance timewise, and I think that might be why some people were turned off. I was happy with getting the "meanwhile" stories filled in, though. I found the raft portion a bit weak storywise, but I was thrilled with the Locke-Kate-Desmond interactions in the hatch. That gave a lot of food for thought and endless speculation until next Wednesday :)

I think this episode was great and will have to watched again to catch the little hidden things. I think that was the point of recapping a lot of storyline, so we would catch the stuff like the symbol that was in the hatch and on the shark.

I'm also having trouble finding a pix of the Apollo Chocolates that look like what Kate found (the current style seems to be Japanese and is made in the form of little Apollo rockets ... the Asian connection might apply but I doubt it). But I did find this link that dates to 1997 (the year that Desmond met Jack!). http://pages.kovels.com/55/InventoryPage/1098374/1.html

I also found this image from a box of the candies: http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chocolatebox5al.jpg and there is that Asian connection again. But the descroption gives no date. However, the way those bars were wrapped were modern or at least within the last 10-15 years and not like the ones from the 1920s or earlier (I found reference to them as far back as "the early 1900s).

There is a thread about the candy bars http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=20072

It has some screen caps of the candy bar. The interesting part is the expritation date appears to be October 23, 2004

You have to be friggin kidding me. Not these posts again? Just shoot me now if we have to endure these posts every week for another season. At least come up with a different title. So far every episode has been the best and the worst episode ever of Lost.

um, Andy, are you sure you watched the same eppy as the rest of us?

is the art of storytelling completely lost on you? this show is NOT about instant
gratification. it is about telling a story. and painting the picture with a wide variety
of colors not just black and white.

you of course are entitled to your opinion but i think that you are off the mark.

AMEN... I couldnt agree more,

I dont know what some of you want everyweek, if you want nonstop insane action go watch 24..

I don't think it was the worst. I'd rant Adrift the same as Tabula Rasa. Both episodes share space near the bottom of my list of favourites. But I'd still give this episode a pass, cause they were still pretty enjoyable.

Echo, you're so right! And that line of Locke's was PRICELESS! I cracked up when he said that! So "Locke!"

Yep, and when locke said he was actually surprised to see him.. Was he? I wouldnt be, jack is a stubborn as locke and where Kate goes, jack is not too far behind.

Good stuff though...

" Your Dr has a Gun"... LOL I like desmond, heres to hoping they dont kill him that soon, although I sense a "Charlie vs Ethan" issue soon...

I think the episode was a bit slow too. I am not a fan of the michael story anyways. Maybe thats why it was dull... I would have prefered to see the lock/hurley storeies and something about the hatch... ti left us off in teh same place... I love the show but this one was lacking... in my opinion... as for the expiration date on the candy bars... as with everything else if you dig deep enough you will find an error... this is a tv show afteralll... not everything is perfect, I am AMAZED that the production staff has done so much correctly. their attention to detail is amazing, but we do go and look deep.

You have to be friggin kidding me. Not these posts again? Just shoot me now if we have to endure these posts every week for another season. At least come up with a different title. So far every episode has been the best and the worst episode ever of Lost.

It just isn't the 'lage without the "Worst episode ever" threads. :biggrin: Not every episode can be as mind-blowing as the last one. Sometimes they need to do things that arc things together, and set stuff up. This episode gave us some answers to things from the previous episode and some great Sawyer/Michael moments.

I will admit that I was hoping that Michael's flashback would give us something new to his character. It didn't show us anything new, but what I like about it is the contrast between the last time he lost Walt and this time. Last time he gave up the fight, for the best interest of Walt. Now he is very determined to fight for him. While not providing a whole lot of new depth to him, it does provide a necessary arc for the show. I do really hope that we will get more of Michael that doesn't involve Walt. Now that we found out how much he sacrificed his life for Walt early on, what happened to move him past Walt?

I agree. The season premiere was packed with anticipation and reveals, but you cant expect that to happen every week.

Remember this, the first season was novelty and fresh almost every episode.

Just because spoilers and anticipation has gone up with hype, doesnt really justify anyone to pass judgement on a single episode untill season is complete. And Michael did now vow to getting his son back. The fact all they have is each other, will be Michaels driving force this season.

So i say it was a good episode. Sawyer was his usual charming "badboy" self, but his and Michael's relationship was strenghtened by the hardships of the night out at sea.

Sawyer also reveals alot more humanity showing concern for Jin.

Yep, and when locke said he was actually surprised to see him.. Was he? I wouldnt be, jack is a stubborn as locke and where Kate goes, jack is not too far behind.

Good stuff though...

" Your Dr has a Gun"... LOL I like desmond, heres to hoping they dont kill him that soon, although I sense a "Charlie vs Ethan" issue soon...
Me too. On both counts.

I too was surprised at Locke's surprise. And impressed with Locke's quick thinking throughout the entire situation. One thing I did find funny - for a man who plays everything so close to the vest, he sure spilled his guts to Desmond, didn't he? Granted Desmond had a gun, but still..."We're plane crash survivors, there are 43 or us, 4 of us left on a raft, no, we're all feeling fine." Tell him where the camp is and what trees are best to snipe from, why dont'cha?

That whole conversation was great theater, though. I can't remember the last time I was so on the edge of my seat.

So i say it was a good episode. Sawyer was his usual charming bad boy self, but his and Michael's relationship was strenghtened by the hardships of the night out at sea.

Sawyer also reveals alot more humanity showing concern for Jin.
I have to admit that Sawyer rocked this episode. I'm starting to root for the character for the first time. I hope he kicks some "Others" behind in the next episode. I still think that the Others will try and 'turn' one of the survivors this season or next, and my money would have been on Sawyer, but now I'm thinking Shannon. Also, Michael owes him an apology, which is something I never expected to say. :)

And I loved this episode, too.

I'm also having trouble finding a pix of the Apollo Chocolates that look like what Kate found (the current style seems to be Japanese and is made in the form of little Apollo rockets ... the Asian connection might apply but I doubt it). But I did find this link that dates to 1997 (the year that Desmond met Jack!). http://pages.kovels.com/55/InventoryPage/1098374/1.html

Did I miss something? How do we know Jack and Desmond met in 1997??

'So I was watching this show inbetween ABC's hour block of commercials called "Lost" that we all know and enjoy, and this one happened to be the most disappointing episode of the two seasons. This episode was slow-paced, almost empty on information, and included a pointless flashback with nothing interesting in it.'

I was disappointed at the flashback, too. We learned nothing we didn't already know; the only Easter Egg was Michael giving Walt a white toy bear (think polar). It felt a bit thrown-together, rather than plotted out to move the plot forward. I wouldn't call it the worst episode, but I was initially let down. gonna watch it again, though; maybe there are things I need to see again.

I fail to see how Sawyer 'rocked'. He was the same person he has always been...he has ALWAYS shown that he has a soft side and that he can be hard headed at times... What he did tonight wasn't anything all that new.

You have to be friggin kidding me. Not these posts again? Just shoot me now if we have to endure these posts every week for another season. At least come up with a different title. So far every episode has been the best and the worst episode ever of Lost.

I know. I had the title as well and they never get anywhere with it..

I fail to see how Sawyer 'rocked'. He was the same person he has always been...he has ALWAYS shown that he has a soft side and that he can be hard headed at times... What he did tonight wasn't anything all that new.

He went to great lengths to save Michael's life at the beginning of the episode, and his concern for Jin was something new. I haven't seen him be part of the team so much since he joined the posse after Ethan - and that could have been a one-time thing. He also showed courage in swimming for the pontoon and giving Michael the gun - he was putting himself in real danger when he had the best excuse in the world to suggest that Michael make the swim instead. He also rushes to Jin's aid at the end.

I feel like the Sawyer we met a year ago would have looked out for Number One no matter what...but he's really bonded with these guys since then. His character has never been a favorite and I'm still not sold, but I have to give credit where it's due, right?

I won't defend the editing or pacing of this episode - it wasn't great. But the story content of this episode may be much more important retroactively than we know. Events we consider unimportant and boring now may have unforeseen significance in the light of future events. Even the flashbacks, which everyone seems ready to dismiss. For instance:

1) Why did Walt's mom want so badly to avoid court? She manipulated Michael into settling, but her motives may turn out to be different than we think. She takes her "special" boy and runs around the globe, moving from place to place. And then dies mysteroiusly. There is more to this story than thus far revealed.

2) As others have noted, the lawyer's office in which Michael is signing to give up his child, although in New York instead of Sydney, bears a striking resemblance to the office in which Claire was signing to give up her child. The way things are connected in "Lost," I doubt this is a coincidence. That alone was more interesting to me than the stuffed polar bear.

3) Although the hatch moments repeated the timeline from last week, they offered a wealth of new information regarding Desmond's belief that the "world" might be gone, that a disease is on the island, and that escaping by raft is useless. We saw the mysterious countdown and the use of "The Numbers" to stop it. And when, in some future episode, Locke quips "What did one snowman say to the other snowman?" and some charaacter - possibly one we've known from the beginning - offers a quick answer, a pretty fun cliffhanger moment will result.

4) The Feng Shui "Dharma" symbol on everything - Desmond's jumpsuit, the food containers, the walls... heck, even the shark (!) - was a pretty big reveal in my book. Sure, we don't understand its significance yet, but when we do, we will trace back to its first clear appearance in this episode.

I'm willing to let the writers spool out their story as they see fit. All in all, while this wasn't the best episode of the series, I still found it a riveting hour of television. If I have any complaint at all it is that there wasn't enough of it. ABC needs to trim the commercial time a bit.

He went to great lengths to save Michael's life at the beginning of the episode, and his concern for Jin was something new. I haven't seen him be part of the team so much since he joined the posse after Ethan - and that could have been a one-time thing. He also showed courage in swimming for the pontoon and giving Michael the gun - he was putting himself in real danger when he had the best excuse in the world to suggest that Michael make the swim instead. He also rushes to Jin's aid at the end.

I feel like the Sawyer we met a year ago would have looked out for Number One no matter what...but he's really bonded with these guys since then. His character has never been a favorite and I'm still not sold, but I have to give credit where it's due, right?

Well..actually we didn't meet him a 'year' ago. Remember on the island its only been 44 days (I know..to us it was a year.:)

But Sawyer showed concern when Boone was injured..giving up the liquor and asking if he could help. He showed courage in going after Ethan...so to me his behavior is just more of the same. He's a good guy under a rather crusty exterior (crusty not meant in the physical sense of course)

I fail to see where the raftees have bonded yet. They are still in the 'shock' stage of events as far as I can see...maybe later.

Are the commercial breaks someday going to be longer than the actual show? I certainly hope we will never see an episode like this again.
Adrift clocked in around the usal length for an episode which is circa 42 minutes. So any sense that it was shorter than other episodes, or that there was more commerical content in the *hour* block* is simply your own imagination.

Feel free to time the episode and chack for yourself - it is consistent with the series and the majority of other shows.

42-ish minutes is pretty much standard for us *hourlong* shows, and has been for several years. Likewise, a *half-hour* show such as Friends and many comedies usually clocks in at around 24 minutes.

I completely take offense to your insult.
I fail to see where halfrek's post insulted you at all.

How does questioning your understanding of storytelling vs instant gratification translate as an insult?

I agree 100% I was telling my wife before the show started how long till the losers that live and die LOST will start to whine about the show.

I for one thought it was a good episode. It built some tension between mike and sayer. Plus also showed us a lot more about the hatch. Quit whinning and enjoy the show or go watch Americas Next Dancer/Idol/Model or whatever else the brainless idiots are watching.
When expressing your opinions here, please refrain from making comments that could be considered to insult the intelligence of your fellow posters.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, good and bad, and should allowed to express such without being called "brainless idiots".

Well..actually we didn't meet him a 'year' ago. Remember on the island its only been 44 days (I know..to us it was a year.:)

Right, I was speaking from the audience's point of view.


But Sawyer showed concern when Boone was injured..giving up the liquor and asking if he could help. He showed courage in going after Ethan...so to me his behavior is just more of the same. He's a good guy under a rather crusty exterior (crusty not meant in the physical sense of course)

I agree that Sawyer's development has been a process. I didn't see anything radically different, but the changes in him struck me a little harder this time. Maybe because he put himself in jeopardy for someone else. Maybe because last night he really was misunderstood and mistreated.

Yeah, it took some guts to confront Ethan - but then again, he was armed and Ethan wasn't, and they had the "jungle boy" outnumbered. (Actually that's an argument against Ethan having been Desmond's roommate, a theory I briefly espoused last week. Wouldn't he have gone into the castaways' camp armed, given the arsenal that Desmond's got?)


I fail to see where the raftees have bonded yet. They are still in the 'shock' stage of events as far as I can see...maybe later.
They've bonded through adversity. They turned on each other and then came back together. When they wake up on the pontoon, you can tell that something's different between them. It started in the symbolic scene after the shark attack where they clasp hands and help each other out of the water. Not saying they're blood brothers -- but I expect them to take one another's side a lot more often in the future.

People seem to have a problem with me expressing my opinion here. This is a public forum, opinions will be expressed whether you like it or not. Don't come here saying "Oh not another one of these whiny losers!", whether or not you think me posting my opinion on the episode is going to get me anywhere, posts like that certainly are going nowhere. Do you think that i'm gonna back down from my opinion because of it? Completely edit my thread to make you happy? Get real. Maybe my opinion isn't the majority, but i'm certainly not alone. Whether or not the LOST team read and take note of our dislike of "Adrift" is up to them. What do you do when you have a problem with something? When you feel cheated? I felt taken advantage of as a regular Lost watcher because they put together one lazy episode, knowing that they can afford to do so with their ratings. Maybe you disagree with me and loved this episode, that's fine with me. But i've said nothing to warrant being flamed, attacked, and insulted because of my opinions. This forum is exactly where my opinion belongs.

Posting your own opinion in here is cool with me, obviously I couldn't do anything about it if I could. I have no interest in swaying someone's opinion and no one will alter my own, but I will defend my opinion.

And, GOD please, i've heard enough of the following:

"You can't expect to get answers to every question in a single episode!"
I know, I know, I know! I wasn't expecting to see answers. An exciting twist or surprise is not an answer. I'd rather have something big that poses even more questions. I wasn't satisfied with what I was given in this episode.

"Lost is a story of the characters, we learned alot about Michael's character!"
I sure didn't! Absolutely nothing happened that caught my interest, i'm not even sure the Polar Bear teddy is going to be all that relevant, the comic book seems to be more interesting. This flashback didn't tell me anything more about Michael's character that I didn't learn in his last flashback, which was alot more interesting. Hopefully it won't be forgotten about now that Walt's gone. Lost may be very strong in character development, but let us not forget there is a story actually going on here, and it only seemed to advance an inch. Most people would call that a filler episode. A poster before said something very interesting about how there may be more to some of the events in Michael's flashback than meets the eye. I'm keeping that in mind, for hope, at least.

"Didn't you see the Polar bear teddy and the symbol on the shark?"
Actually no, I didn't see them until I came to this forum last night. Yeah, they were both really cool, but not enough to make me love this episode or anything. Just took a bit of the sour taste out of my mouth.

"How can you say this was the worst episode ever?"
I'm not saying this is the worst episode in TV history, only the worst of Lost. That's just another way of saying its my least favorite of all. Lost doesn't suck because it had one crappy episode, i'm still a diehard fan. But I was severely let down in this episode and it worries me a bit about its future, especially because this isn't the identical team of writers from last year's emmy winning season (if you didn't already know that). Why an emmy award winning team would be altered in anyway I have no idea.. and I won't assume anything. I know it doesn't mean that this new team couldn't be just as good or even better. But i'm with the opinion of the good ol' "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy. No I don't know why the changes were made, and I hope my fears are gone in the next few episodes. Everyone has to have their least favorite and most favorite episode of any TV show. Unless you just happen to hate or love all the episodes.

There's nothing wrong w/ finding fault with Lost. We all come her to discuss and critique. But every week there is a post titled "Worst Episode Ever" and one titled "Best Episode Ever". It gets old after awhile. Try a different thread title. How about, "Why I didn't like this episode", or "My Critique of Adrift". With a title like "Worst Episode of Lost" it almost seemes like you are looking for people to lash back at you.

Adrift clocked in around the usal length for an episode which is circa 42 minutes. So any sense that it was shorter than other episodes, or that there was more commerical content in the *hour* block* is simply your own imagination.

Feel free to time the episode and chack for yourself - it is consistent with the series and the majority of other shows.

42-ish minutes is pretty much standard for us *hourlong* shows, and has been for several years. Likewise, a *half-hour* show such as Friends and many comedies usually clocks in at around 24 minutes.


I fail to see where halfrek's post insulted you at all.

How does questioning your understanding of storytelling vs instant gratification translate as an insult?


When expressing your opinions here, please refrain from making comments that could be considered to insult the intelligence of your fellow posters.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, good and bad, and should allowed to express such without being called "brainless idiots".

Thanks for deciding to check up on the timing of the commercial breaks. It was all in vain i'm afraid, I was only making a joke. And while I believe Halfrek is fully capable of defending herself (I never reported her nor intended to), alluding that I am unable to comprehend storytelling is labeling me an imbecile. If you don't see that as an insult, then there is a serious problem in this forum. I would very much appreciate an apology from Halfrek.

There's nothing wrong w/ finding fault with Lost. We all come her to discuss and critique. But every week there is a post titled "Worst Episode Ever" and one titled "Best Episode Ever". It gets old after awhile. Try a different thread title. How about, "Why I didn't like this episode", or "My Critique of Adrift". With a title like "Worst Episode of Lost" it almost seemes like you are looking for people to lash back at you.

Well, I suppose i'm just not original at titling threads but it certainly got its attention. I don't believe titling this any differently would have affected the replies.

Please note that Halfrek is a woman, and a moderator. I don't think you can report moderators. And Partyman is a moderator too, so the best policy is to be polite to them.

Please note that Halfrek is a woman, and a moderator. I don't think you can report moderators. And Partyman is a moderator too, so the best policy is to be polite to them.

I apologize then for assuming that Halfrek was male and thank you for letting me know. I've edited the reply. I don't know if I can report moderators, I already said I didn't and wasn't going to. I am fully aware that they are both moderators. They are here to see to it that the members of this forum abide by the rules, but they're not above them. I am nice to all members on this forum, regardless of whether or not they are a moderator or VIP. I'm not afraid of them so i'm not going to suck up to them. I've never done anything to break the rules here. I felt very insulted by what Halfrek said to me, and i'm not going to attack her for it, i'm not demanding anything. I would appreciate an apology if Halfrek is polite enough to do so, either way its going to slide.

And while I believe Halfrek is fully capable of defending herself (I never reported her nor intended to), alluding that I am unable to comprehend storytelling is labeling me an imbecile. If you don't see that as an insult, then there is a serious problem in this forum. I would very much appreciate an apology from Halfrek..

as many posters know from first hand experiences i am capable of defending myself.
with vengeance. :biggrin: (pun intended as my posting name is a vengeance demon)

i did NOT insult you. i commented on your comments. i did what is proper and as we say
here, flamed the post not the poster. no where did i say that you were an "imbecile".
that is information that YOU extracted from the post. perhaps my words struck a chord with
you that made YOU think i said you were stupid. i did not. i do not see where an apology
is warranted. i merely pointed out how i read your post and found fault with it all the while
agreeing that you of course are entitled to your opinion.

I don't think you can report moderators. And Partyman is a moderator too, so the best policy is to be polite to them.
you can report MODs. if you think that we have done something wrong by all means
report us. if Karri agrees that we have overstepped our bounds, she will call us on it.
also, all the MODs can and do question the actions of the other MODs. it is also
how we maintain a unified front and a consistant manner with which we moderate.

while it is best policy to be courteous and respectful of any moderation that we perform,
it is not necessary to kiss our arses. we are fans too.
and human. well except for Huskie. he is a dog. ;)
and maybe me. hello, vengeance demon. :biggrin:

you can report MODs. if you think that we have done something wrong by all means
report us. if Karri agrees that we have overstepped our bounds, she will call us on it.
also, all the MODs can and do question the actions of the other MODs. it is also
how we maintain a unified front and a consistant manner with which we moderate.

while it is best policy to be courteous and respectful of any moderation that we perform,
it is not necessary to kiss our arses. we are fans too.
and human. well except for Huskie. he is a dog. ;)
and maybe me. hello, vengeance demon. :biggrin:

Oh, well in that case. :ranting: Haha! Just kidding. :angel:

um, Andy, are you sure you watched the same eppy as the rest of us?
this part i questioned if you had watched the same eppy as i did.
b/c i liked the eppy. yes it did rehash the same info, but it also gave us
some missing pieces. like where Kate was, Locke's shoes, info the hatch,
electricity, food, water, computer.

is the art of storytelling completely lost on you?
again, i questioned how you viewed the show. perhaps this part is what you found fault with in my post?
some people understand storytelling. some do not.
i was only seeking clarification on this. maybe you like a different type of storytelling than that provided by LOST?
i was not clear on it. do you like all the info at once or bit by bit even if it means going over known info again from another perspective?

this show is NOT about instant gratification. it is about telling a story. and painting the picture with a wide variety of colors not just black and white.
this is where it tell you how i view LOST and how i think the story is being told.
with layers, colors and pace.

you of course are entitled to your opinion but i think that you are off the mark.

this is where i state that i disagree with your post/opinion but still tell you that you
can and do have a differing stance.

is that better?

as many posters know from first hand experiences i am capable of defending myself.
with vengeance. :biggrin: (pun intended as my posting name is a vengeance demon)

i did NOT insult you. i commented on your comments. i did what is proper and as we say
here, flamed the post not the poster. no where did i say that you were an "imbecile".
that is information that YOU extracted from the post. perhaps my words struck a chord with
you that made YOU think i said you were stupid. i did not. i do not see where an apology
is warranted. i merely pointed out how i read your post and found fault with it all the while
agreeing that you of course are entitled to your opinion.


you can report MODs. if you think that we have done something wrong by all means
report us. if Karri agrees that we have overstepped our bounds, she will call us on it.
also, all the MODs can and do question the actions of the other MODs. it is also
how we maintain a unified front and a consistant manner with which we moderate.

while it is best policy to be courteous and respectful of any moderation that we perform,
it is not necessary to kiss our arses. we are fans too.
and human. well except for Huskie. he is a dog. ;)
and maybe me. hello, vengeance demon. :biggrin:

I may have interpreted it a bit extreme. But saying "is the art of storytelling lost with you?" is not exactly a straight question to me. You're telling me that i'm not able to understand storytelling. That is a shot at my intelligence. I am still offended by the comment, especially because I AM a writer. Far beyond my little Lost fanfic i've had my works critiqued and acclaimed by some of the best writers today. It's like you're telling a doctor he doesn't know where the heart is at. I don't have a problem with you and I don't think you intended to insult me personally, which is why I didn't want to report you or anything, but I found your statement to be rude and offensive.

this part i questioned if you had watched the same eppy as i did.
b/c i liked the eppy. yes it did rehash the same info, but it also gave us
some missing pieces. like where Kate was, Locke's shoes, info the hatch,
electricity, food, water, computer.

again, i questioned how you viewed the show. perhaps this part is what you found fault with in my post?
some people understand storytelling. some do not.
i was only seeking clarification on this. maybe you like a different type of storytelling than that provided by LOST?
i was not clear on it. do you like all the info at once or bit by bit even if it means going over known info again from another perspective?


this is where it tell you how i view LOST and how i think the story is being told.
with layers, colors and pace.


this is where i state that i disagree with your post/opinion but still tell you that you
can and do have a differing stance.

is that better?

Your entire post is fine, except the one statement. No I do NOT buy that as a question to me. Sorry, I can't see anyone actually coming out and asking that question and wording it as you did. Is it "lost" with me? I would have read "Do you understand the storytelling going on in this episode?" alot differently, but it still is such an unusual thing to ask. Everybody else has so far spoke in statements, not questions. It just doesn't seem like your intention was to ask me. Probably not insult me, but it definitely appeared to be a shot at me.

Oh, well in that case. :ranting: Haha! Just kidding. :angel:

:24:
i mean hey! :mad: watch it.

;)

I may have interpreted it a bit extreme. But saying "is the art of storytelling lost with you?" is not exactly a straight question to me. You're telling me that i'm not able to understand storytelling. That is a shot at my intelligence. I am still offended by the comment, especially because I AM a writer.

okay perhaps, me not being a writer and in fact admitting that i write poorly doesnt help my case.
my question was rhetorical.
Far beyond my little Lost fanfic i've had my works critiqued and acclaimed by some of the best writers today. It's like you're telling a doctor he doesn't know where the heart is at. I don't have a problem with you and I don't think you intended to insult me personally, which is why I didn't want to report you or anything, but I found your statement to be rude and offensive.
okay i get that you were offended. but i am not going to apologize for you being offended
at my question. i was not insulting you. i also suspect that as we have never interacted
before that you may read me a bit differently than those that you read often. knowing
someone's posting style/voice makes a huge difference. it can/does color the voice
with which you read posts. that and the fact that i do not write well. ;)
though i do try to write things with the knowledge that people will not be in my head
when they read it. therefore i do edit myself a lot.

one more point:
i reread my post/point about the type of storytelling that you like.
for example: all writers/readers do not necessarily like tom clancy,
or *insert romance novelist's name here* or anne rice or stephen king. that does not mean that their
ability to tell a story is bad, it just means that is not for everyone.
this eppy perhaps strayed from the way that you like a story told.

maybe that is where the diff between you and me is found. i dont so much need
specifics. i like the overall feel to the show/story. the inferred meanings that are
often portrayed with just one look by the actor.

why yes not only am i a bad writer, i also ramble. ;)

I liked this episode with the exception of Michael's backstory. I thought that they could of went a different route with his backstory because I felt like it was basically another version of what his backstory was in "Special". Besides that I enjoyed the episode and it did provide some subtle answers along with some more questions - but that is what keeps us watching.

If I was going to name the worst episode it would definitely be Charlie's second backstory episode (I even repressed the title of it haha). That's my opinion anyway.

Your entire post is fine, except the one statement. No I do NOT buy that as a question to me. Sorry, I can't see anyone actually coming out and asking that question and wording it as you did. Is it "lost" with me? I would have read "Do you understand the storytelling going on in this episode?" alot differently, but it still is such an unusual thing to ask. Everybody else has so far spoke in statements, not questions. It just doesn't seem like your intention was to ask me. Probably not insult me, but it definitely appeared to be a shot at me.

see the above post where i explain that my question was meant as a rhetorical question.
definition (not b/c i dont think you know what it means but to make my point)
a rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (especially to make an assertion) rather than to elicit a reply
i guess it elicited a response. ;)

She is not responsible for what you might 'infer' from an article. She has told you what she meant. You can accept the explanation and perhaps admit that the vibes you were getting were the wrong one. It happens to all of us from time to time. We misread something or pick up the wrong cues.
exactly. so stated in my long rambling post.

Its just that halfrek has a history here and its NOT insulting or questioning the intelligence of other posters. What she says is what she means.
thanks, i think. :undecide:

And I don't kiss up to the mods..
why not? :( there could be cookies in it for you. :biggrin:
in fact I hardly pay that much attention to them at all.
hey, hello. i am talking to you. ahem. look at me! oooh hooo! over here.
dang! i guess she really doesnt pay attention to us MODs afterall. :frown:

;)

I liked this episode with the exception of Michael's backstory. I thought that they could of went a different route with his backstory because I felt like it was basically another version of what his backstory was in "Special". Besides that I enjoyed the episode and it did provide some subtle answers along with some more questions - but that is what keeps us watching.

If I was going to name the worst episode it would definitely be Charlie's second backstory episode (I even repressed the title of it haha). That's my opinion anyway.
That was the showdown with Ethan! I really liked that episode, apart from the flashbacks, which I agree added nothing to the story except a cool shout-out to "The Office". I thought it was cool how one person basically held an armed group of over 40 under siege. The following episode, the second Sawyer one, gets my vote for worst Lost episode. (Although that's like talking about the worst Led Zeppelin song!) I just remember feeling kind of 'blah' about it afterwards.

That was the showdown with Ethan! I really liked that episode, apart from the flashbacks, which I agree added nothing to the story except a cool shout-out to "The Office". I thought it was cool how one person basically held an armed group of over 40 under siege. The following episode, the second Sawyer one, gets my vote for worst Lost episode. (Although that's like talking about the worst Led Zeppelin song!) I just remember feeling kind of 'blah' about it afterwards.

Yea the Ethan part was cool but the Charlie backstory was just bad. I didn't like it at all, I even skipped the episode on DVD. I loved the Sawyer episode "Outlaws" though. See, everyone has different tastes and that's what makes the world go round.

okay perhaps, me not being a writer and in fact admitting that i write poorly doesnt help my case.
my question was rhetorical.

okay i get that you were offended. but i am not going to apologize for you being offended
at my question. i was not insulting you. i also suspect that as we have never interacted
before that you may read me a bit differently than those that you read often. knowing
someone's posting style/voice makes a huge difference. it can/does color the voice
with which you read posts. that and the fact that i do not write well. ;)
though i do try to write things with the knowledge that people will not be in my head
when they read it. therefore i do edit myself a lot.

one more point:
i reread my post/point about the type of storytelling that you like.
for example: all writers/readers do not necessarily like tom clancy,
or *insert romance novelist's name here* or anne rice or stephen king. that does not mean that their
ability to tell a story is bad, it just means that is not for everyone.
this eppy perhaps strayed from the way that you like a story told.

maybe that is where the diff between you and me is found. i dont so much need
specifics. i like the overall feel to the show/story. the inferred meanings that are
often portrayed with just one look by the actor.

why yes not only am i a bad writer, i also ramble. ;)

No problem Halfrek. You don't have to apologize. At least you now see how I took that personally. To answer your question, I do enjoy Lost's storytelling very much. This particular episode was just too bland for me. I fell in love with the Lost that was mysterious and edge of your seat, with twists and new questions at every corner. Everything in this episode would have been alot better had they not dragged on with it all. Michael's flashback should have had more added to it. It was exactly the same thing through it entirely, him not wanting to give up Walt. It was pushed on too long that it felt like they were just trying to stretch it. The same thing goes with the Michael-Sawyer dialogue. No I don't think it was unnecessary, but it should have been condensed so that we could have maybe had a longer scene with the shark and make that more suspenseful. That conflict there was really weak.

I'm also sorry for calling you a guy, lol. I honestly didn't even bother looking at your profile pic. My mistake and I DO apologize for that. :)

see the above post where i explain that my question was meant as a rhetorical question.
definition (not b/c i dont think you know what it means but to make my point)
a rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (especially to make an assertion) rather than to elicit a reply
i guess it elicited a response. ;)

Now that's a little immature, don't you think? This post was completely pointless because the post you are quoting was before you said your question was rhetorical. And I do find it rude that someone automatically assumes I don't know the meaning of a word and defines it for me. You made no point. I don't even understand why you wrote that. It's completely hypocritical of you to say that you're question was rhetorical while earlier you attempted to pass it off as a question asking me how I view the storytelling.

No problem Halfrek. You don't have to apologize. At least you now see how I took that personally. To answer your question, I do enjoy Lost's storytelling very much. This particular episode was just too bland for me. I fell in love with the Lost that was mysterious and edge of your seat, with twists and new questions at every corner. Everything in this episode would have been alot better had they not dragged on with it all. Michael's flashback should have had more added to it. It was exactly the same thing through it entirely, him not wanting to give up Walt. It was pushed on too long that it felt like they were just trying to stretch it. The same thing goes with the Michael-Sawyer dialogue. No I don't think it was unnecessary, but it should have been condensed so that we could have maybe had a longer scene with the shark and make that more suspenseful. That conflict there was really weak.
ah i see. i would have been bored with a longer shark bit. i happen to really
like the interaction that occured between Michael and Sawyer.
while the guys never really said exactly how they felt or how they thought specifically
it was their actions that spoke volumes for me. or inactions in some cases.

I'm also sorry for calling you a guy, lol. I honestly didn't even bother looking at your profile pic. My mistake and I DO apologize for that. :)
no problem. not offended.
given the upfront method i use when posting i am often assumed to be a guy.
i do not whine nor do i sidestep things. and i tend to hit hard. ;)

it is all good. :)

Now that's a little immature, don't you think? This post was completely pointless because the post you are quoting was before you said your question was rhetorical. And I do find it rude that someone automatically assumes I don't know the meaning of a word and defines it for me. You made no point. I don't even understand why you wrote that. It's completely hypocritical of you to say that you're question was rhetorical while earlier you attempted to pass it off as a question asking me how I view the storytelling.
okay. point taken. perhaps it was a bit much.
however i did state that i did NOT define the word for you.
yeah, i am def. failing writing here. cant rhetorical also be inferred to mean
something else? a double meaning?

Now that's a little immature, don't you think? This post was completely pointless because the post you are quoting was before you said your question was rhetorical. And I do find it rude that someone automatically assumes I don't know the meaning of a word and defines it for me. You made no point. I don't even understand why you wrote that. It's completely hypocritical of you to say that you're question was rhetorical while earlier you attempted to pass it off as a question asking me how I view the storytelling.

I don't think you get Halfrek's sense of humor. The point was to make a joke, at her expense "i guess it elicited a response." She posted the definition, not because she thought you didn't know what it meant but to point out the part of the definition that said, "a rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (especially to make an assertion) rather than to elicit a reply." She was joking that the effect she had was to elicit a response.

Well, at least that's the way I interpreted it. Oops, she already responded.

okay. point taken. perhaps it was a bit much.
however i did state that i did NOT define the word for you.
yeah, i am def. failing writing here. cant rhetorical also be inferred to mean
something else? a double meaning?

Rhetorical is exactly how you defined it, there's not another meaning that would make since in the way you used it. You defined the word for some reason. You said it was to make a point and I don't know what the point is.

I don't think you get Halfrek's sense of humor. The point was to make a joke, at her expense "i guess it elicited a response." She posted the definition, not because she thought you didn't know what it meant but to point out the part of the definition that said, "a rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (especially to make an assertion) rather than to elicit a reply." She was joking that the effect she had was to elicit a response.

Well, at least that's the way I interpreted it. Oops, she already responded.

Man, do girls have a psychic link to each other or something? You seem to all be inside her head and coming to back her up when she is handling herself. No I don't get her sense of humor. The way you say it makes it sound like an unnecessary joke at my own expense. Someone is either trying to get in shots at me or there has been an unlikely terrible chain of misunderstandings here.

I'd go for the second one and call it a day. :grin: And, yes, we dimples stand up for each other. It's the dimple way. :p

Thanks for deciding to check up on the timing of the commercial breaks. It was all in vain i'm afraid, I was only making a joke.
You were? Sorry, I thought jokes were meant to be funny? Or at least with some kind of punchline or payoff. I'm not American so maybe I just didn't *get* it?

I read your comments as a criticism of an (imagined) increase in the ammount of time taken up by commercials during each *hour* of Lost. :undecide:

Sorry if I misunderstood. At least the information I posted may be useful to others who may not have realised you were joking about it, and may have thought there there actually was less episode content and more commercials in the latest installment of the show. :)


And while I believe Halfrek is fully capable of defending herself (I never reported her nor intended to), alluding that I am unable to comprehend storytelling is labeling me an imbecile. If you don't see that as an insult, then there is a serious problem in this forum. I would very much appreciate an apology from Halfrek.
I would disagree. To say that anybody who does not understand storytelling is an imbecile would be rude and unfair, surely?

There may be a great many posters visting the site who do not know as much about the art and/or techniques of serialised storytelling as you claim to, and I doubt many of them are imbeciles. For example, I have a friend (Danny) who knows very little about storytelling - I would not consider him to be an imbecile. Were I to label him as such, I would be doing him an injustice.

Now, I can sort of see how such a questioning could be an affront to you, as I see from one of your later posts that you are a writer, so specifically questioning your understanding of storytelling could be offensive, were it made in such a context, but given that the overwhelming majority of users here have no idea of the specific professions of the individual posters, I think its a definite reach to consider such a question as any kind of deliberate personal insult.

In any case, you and halfrek seem to have clarified things and resolved any differences now, and I am sure this thread can return to friendly show discussion, hopefully with no more reported posts. :)

I don't think you get Halfrek's sense of humor. The point was to make a joke, at her expense "i guess it elicited a response." She posted the definition, not because she thought you didn't know what it meant but to point out the part of the definition that said, "a rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (especially to make an assertion) rather than to elicit a reply." She was joking that the effect she had was to elicit a response.

Well, at least that's the way I interpreted it. Oops, she already responded.

yay! someone "gets" my sense of humor. :clapping:
you get a :cookie:

Andy, i may not write to your understanding. i may not always be clear and just as
i take meaning from things not spoken by the characters on LOST,
that also may be how i write. :p
i get the impression that:
1) you are easily offended
2) have trouble reading my posts
3) have not interacted enough with me or read posts by me to understand my humor
4) no point to this number but had to use it b/c it is evil.

please try to lighten up. if i had really wanted to insult you, berate you, belittle you,
or otherwise mock you, your intelligence or writing, i would have. trust me on that.
there is nothing else to say.

well except maybe:toot: :topicoff: :26:

Man, do girls have a psychic link to each other or something? You seem to all be inside her head and coming to back her up when she is handling herself. No I don't get her sense of humor. .

:24: yeah girls are like that. i think it is the intuitive part of being female.

i know that not everyone gets me. and i also know that sometimes i have to explain
something that i have said....which kinda ruins the joke.

i did not see her comment as backup, but more of an explanation of what i was
attempting to express. go with the chain of events theme.

now back to topic. ;)

i lked how they showed the two different sides of how Michael lost Walt.
and how he finally came to terms with his lack of action and decided to change
the future.

Nice attempt to get back on topic. :p

I actually liked this episode. I was on the edge of my seat through the whole thing. Yes, I thought the falshbacks were a little boring, but I did like how they filled in the gaps with the hatch and filled us in on what was going on w/ the rafters. I generally don't argue my point in a post that critiques an episode, because I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mostly I come to the Fuse to pick up on deatils that I missed, and boy did I miss a lot last night. I still think Lost is far more entertaining than any other TV show out there. Oh, and I also like how they explained what the numbers are and left a whole slew of additional questions about them and their meaning.

So if you hated this episode and all the commercials then maybe you should just skip the season, buy the DVD and fast forward till you see something you like.

I agree 100% with Andy and Philly. And expressed an opinion. If you don't like it, then offer a counter opinion. There is absolutely no reason for taking shots at his motivation, intelligence, etc. And comments about what someone did or did not say last week in a title thread should have been deleted. This petty bickering is making this board sound like the cr@p on the abc board that a lot of us came here to get away from. And when the MOD joins in and takes sides, its all downhill from there. Mod, if you can't stay out the discussion, please move over and let someone else do the job that you are here to do.

Oh Great, now I feel really bad for jumping on everyone and the mods, too. I apologize to all of you. Its just that I was really looking forward to talking to everyone about Lost the way we did last season, and I got caught off guard by what seemed to be a surprising shift in the tone of posts and the focus on personal things and who should be saying what. mean, it just seemed to different in comparson to what I remember from last season.I should have just stayed out of it rather thanaddding my own and making things worse. I'm sorry.
BTW, I agree with Andy that this one moved too slow. And not because I want instant answers or all plot. I would love to see more character development through flashbacks but I just didn't think much was being developed in their characters. So, I guess that's why I felt under attack with him. But again, I apologize for my response.

And when the MOD joins in and takes sides, its all downhill from there. Mod, if you can't stay out the discussion, please move over and let someone else do the job that you are here to do.

excuse YOU? i cannot turn off my posting color. such is the burden that i bear. :p
do you think that i am here to solely referee posters or to just move
posts around? i was a fan before i was appointed a MOD.
i came to this thread to post as a fan. no where did i assert my MODness.
please try to read everything or at least have a better idea of what is going
on before jumping into a thread.
thank you.

I think people are getting re-adjusted to posting about the show. There are many new people at the Fuse that may not be used to the way people post at this site. For the most part, posts at the lage are friendly and even when we disgaree w/ each other we are generally civil w/ each other. I think the Lage is going through some growing pains, but things should settle back to normal soon.

Well no, i'm not exactly through here. I'm having a difficult time processing the possibility that this was all just crappy use of words on your part. But for the sake of keeping this thread on topic and remembering that there are other members here besides me and Halfrek, I'm dropping the discussion so we can get back to Lost talk. I did just press delete on probably the largest post I ever had lined up for the 'lage. Its best to end things before they get too messy, and hopefully these misunderstandings will not occur again. To keep this going just isn't fair to the other members and personally right now, i've been in defense against people throwing me rights and lefts over this episode since 12AM last night that its just getting too old. Well I kinda enjoy it but I gotta take a break, lol.

My apologies to everyone else viewing this thread that had to read through or surf through the situation. All Lost talk for now on!

So if you hated this episode and all the commercials then maybe you should just skip the season, buy the DVD and fast forward till you see something you like.

Are there people who enjoy the commercials or something? :confused: Honestly though, just because I hated this episode doesn't mean I'll hate all the rest. I said I was concerned about the future of Lost, not that I was already giving up.

That's not the point. Andy had a critique of the episode, saying don't watch the show, or fast forward is not a productive rebuttle. Debate is welcomed at the Lage, as well as critiques. I enjoy reading constructive criticism of the show as long as it is not an attack of the show. Then I get defensive. :grin:

Thank you and I know you mean well and everything, but i'd especially prefer if you'd let me answer questions directed towards me myself.

So if you hated this episode and all the commercials then maybe you should just skip the season, buy the DVD and fast forward till you see something you like.

That is hilarious. Thank you for the laugh.

That is hilarious. Thank you for the laugh.

I agree. Hilarious.

Also? Very strange for somebody's very first post here. *spooky*

Wow! I retract that apology to the one mod. You're overtly rude response "Excuse me..." tells me that you don't have the self control to be doing this job. If you can't turn off your mod colours, then you should hold your tongue since you are taking sides and getting aggressive .

Wow! I retract that apology to the one mod. You're overtly rude response "Excuse me..." tells me that you don't have the self control to be doing this job. If you can't turn off your mod colours, then you should hold your tongue since you are taking sides and getting aggressive .

okay, the gloves are off now. how dare you come to this board and tell ME what my job is.
you have been here exactly how long? oh yes, since December. nice.
so in all that time you have watched my every move and KNOW what my job is?
do i answer to YOU? i dont think so.

am i agressive now? why yes, yes i am. hold my tongue? i dont think so.
you obviously have no clue what you are saying.
my interpretation of your post is that
i am NOT allowed to voice my opinion on this eppy or try to explain my comments.
just when did you become in charge of who can post here?
self control? as in i lack self control? you are mistaken.
being a MOD takes a lot of self control. mostly because we have to defend
this site, the VIPs privacy, the posters who do NOT cause trouble and
explain to people like you that obviously do NOT understand just what a MOD does.

i did NOT take a side. i did NOT say so and so is stupid. or so and so is so right that
it makes my head spin. i did none of that. i expressed my opinion,
explained what i meant and came to an agreement of sorts with whom i disagreed.
basically i agreed to disagree. i cannot see what value YOUR post is here other
than to continue to stir things up.

thin ice is where you are now. had this issue been between the two of us
and not YOU getting involved where you do not belong
i would not be nearly as angry as i am now. you should NEVER get in an argument that does NOT involve you.
you are the one that picked sides.
IMO the whole thing was over. i understand from where Andy was coming.
he may not understand my point but that is okay. i dont have anything against
him. at. all.

just a bit of advice. you picked the wrong MOD to mess with.
yup the wrong one. i suggest you back away slowly and let this subject go.

Adrift clocked in around the usal length for an episode which is circa 42 minutes. So any sense that it was shorter than other episodes, or that there was more commerical content in the *hour* block* is simply your own imagination.

Feel free to time the episode and chack for yourself - it is consistent with the series and the majority of other shows.

42-ish minutes is pretty much standard for us *hourlong* shows, and has been for several years. Likewise, a *half-hour* show such as Friends and many comedies usually clocks in at around 24 minutes.


I fail to see where halfrek's post insulted you at all.

How does questioning your understanding of storytelling vs instant gratification translate as an insult?


When expressing your opinions here, please refrain from making comments that could be considered to insult the intelligence of your fellow posters.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, good and bad, and should allowed to express such without being called "brainless idiots".


Well I am sorry. I just don't like people talking smak about the only show I am willing to watch on tv these days.

And we're still in suspense. We knew he took the drugs in Exodus.



How very mature of you. I speak my opinion and you call me a loser, whiner, and brainless idiot?

This is very weird for me to be on the opposite side of the tracks here. I've never hated an episode of Lost, and i've seen every one of them. I'm usually the one in topics like this saying what I liked about it. I like to think that my opinion matters, and this place is the most public forum for Lost that I know of where lots of people will see what I have to say. If your opinion is different, i'm certainly not going to attack or insult you for it. I'm just here in this topic to voice, explain, and defend my opinion.

My opinion of this episode definitely hasn't changed but I am relieved to hear about some cool things I didn't pick up when watching the episode originally - The shark having the symbol on it, and Michael giving Walt a polar bear (I had no idea what it was).


Andy, sorry for the insults. I just can't stand when people complain about stuff. Remember they cannot impress you every single episode. Also remember that the people that work on this show intend to keep this job for YEARS if they can. So obviously they cannot give away all the answers in a season. They have to go along slowly and try to make it last as long as they can. So if a episode goes slowly just relax and wait for the next one. I guess if it makes you feel better to complain about it go ahead. I would just worry about starting a backlash against the show. What if next weeks episode is equally as slow? What will you do then?

Halfrek, you are just demonstrating my point.

Well I am sorry. I just don't like people talking smak about the only show I am willing to watch on tv these days.

Thanks for your gracious response.

However, I am not the person you should be apologising to. :)

Who's the mod for this board? We're getting attacked by this out of control person. Do I report her to herself or what?

see my next post sucka :biggrin:

You were? Sorry, I thought jokes were meant to be funny? Or at least with some kind of punchline or payoff. I'm not American so maybe I just didn't *get* it?

I read your comments as a criticism of an (imagined) increase in the ammount of time taken up by commercials during each *hour* of Lost. :undecide:

Sorry if I misunderstood. At least the information I posted may be useful to others who may not have realised you were joking about it, and may have thought there there actually was less episode content and more commercials in the latest installment of the show. :)



I would disagree. To say that anybody who does not understand storytelling is an imbecile would be rude and unfair, surely?

There may be a great many posters visting the site who do not know as much about the art and/or techniques of serialised storytelling as you claim to, and I doubt many of them are imbeciles. For example, I have a friend (Danny) who knows very little about storytelling - I would not consider him to be an imbecile. Were I to label him as such, I would be doing him an injustice.

Now, I can sort of see how such a questioning could be an affront to you, as I see from one of your later posts that you are a writer, so specifically questioning your understanding of storytelling could be offensive, were it made in such a context, but given that the overwhelming majority of users here have no idea of the specific professions of the individual posters, I think its a definite reach to consider such a question as any kind of deliberate personal insult.

In any case, you and halfrek seem to have clarified things and resolved any differences now, and I am sure this thread can return to friendly show discussion, hopefully with no more reported posts. :)

Sorry I missed this post. Way to take a shot at the Americans, you skipped right past me and threw one at an entire nation. Good for you. I actually live in Canada though, but I still take offense to that having family there. I'm wanting to edit my comment made about the staff of The Fuselage last season, praising them for their constant hardwork and professionalism when keeping this site fun and polite. Well, now that only goes to Karri and Huskie. Anyone else working behind the scenes I've never noticed. I'll have to remove the badge of professionalism from Halfrek and The Partyman. I may have been rude when speaking to the both of you and said some things that were uncalled for, and I apologize for that. But I am a member of this forum, the two of you are staff members for christs sake. You have a job to do and a level of professionalism to maintain. I'm going to have to agree with Sarahleigh, you guys need to be there to keep the cool when us members are unable to.

see my next post sucka :biggrin:

Cool.

No need to call me "sucka" though. It could be considered as not very nice. :(

okay, the gloves are off now. how dare you come to this board and tell ME what my job is.
you have been here exactly how long? oh yes, since December. nice.
so in all that time you have watched my every move and KNOW what my job is?
do i answer to YOU? i dont think so.

am i agressive now? why yes, yes i am. hold my tongue? i dont think so.
you obviously have no clue what you are saying.
my interpretation of your post is that
i am NOT allowed to voice my opinion on this eppy or try to explain my comments.
just when did you become in charge of who can post here?
self control? as in i lack self control? you are mistaken.
being a MOD takes a lot of self control. mostly because we have to defend
this site, the VIPs privacy, the posters who do NOT cause trouble and
explain to people like you that obviously do NOT understand just what a MOD does.

i did NOT take a side. i did NOT say so and so is stupid. or so and so is so right that
it makes my head spin. i did none of that. i expressed my opinion,
explained what i meant and came to an agreement of sorts with whom i disagreed.
basically i agreed to disagree. i cannot see what value YOUR post is here other
than to continue to stir things up.

thin ice is where you are now. had this issue been between the two of us
and not YOU getting involved where you do not belong
i would not be nearly as angry as i am now. you should NEVER get in an argument that does NOT involve you.
you are the one that picked sides.
IMO the whole thing was over. i understand from where Andy was coming.
he may not understand my point but that is okay. i dont have anything against
him. at. all.

just a bit of advice. you picked the wrong MOD to mess with.
yup the wrong one. i suggest you back away slowly and let this subject go.

Yikes!!!! :confused: Is it really worth all that?

Can't we all just get along??? (http://www.sneeuwblind.nl/weblog/images/sadbush.jpg)

Who's the mod for this board? We're getting attacked by this out of control person. Do I report her to herself or what?

halfrek IS a Moderator for this board.

If you report one of her posts, one of the other members of staff with review any problem deal with your complaint accordingly. :)

Okay, thats it. This thread is being sent to Karri right now. I don't care if I am getting suspended or banned for the things i've said in here. I apologize that I started this entire mess, But you two moderators are way out of control and this doesn't need to spread to other members of the forum now. Karri is desperately needed here.

lol dude CHILLAX man. So they hurt your E-Feelings. It's just a forum man! I said sorry for the stuff i said to you, just chill.

It isn't a matter of hurt feelings. Its a matter of allowing good discussion about Lost, which is what this board was set up for. I did report this post but does anyone know how I can make sure it goes to Kerri? She never tolerated this kind of thing when she was watching so much of it herself.

Sorry I missed this post. Way to take a shot at the Americans, you skipped right past me and threw one at an entire nation. Good for you. I actually live in Canada though, but I still take offense to that having family there. I'm wanting to edit my comment made about the staff of The Fuselage last season, praising them for their constant hardwork and professionalism when keeping this site fun and polite. Well, now that only goes to Karri and Huskie. Anyone else working behind the scenes I've never noticed. I'll have to remove the badge of professionalism from Halfrek and The Partyman. I may have been rude when speaking to the both of you and said some things that were uncalled for, and I apologize for that. But I am a member of this forum, the two of you are staff members for christs sake. You have a job to do and a level of professionalism to maintain. I'm going to have to agree with Sarahleigh, you guys need to be there to keep the cool when us members are unable to.
I completely fail to see how my polite belittling of my own intelligence in not *getting* your alleged joke in any way insults Americans, and would be grateful if you could not twist my comments so. :)

To be entirely honest, I still don't see how the comment about the comeercials which you made here...

As a big fan of Lost, this scares me. Is this what we can expect for the rest of the season? Was it such a big mistake to lose the writers over the summer? Are the commercial breaks someday going to be longer than the actual show? I certainly hope we will never see an episode like this again ... was any kind of joke.:confused:

As far as your insulting comments towards myself and another member of Staff go, as such attacks are not acceptable behaviour, this is now a Mod matter that requires atention

As you are attacking me and halfrek personally, we shall not be mediating in this matter, so all the relevant information will be reported to other members of staff for review, for a fair an unbiased resolution.

*not that either myself or halfrek are biased in any of our acts of Moderation, simply that given that we are the subject of these attacks/accusations, it could appear "unproffesional" if the actions taken were decided by either of us.

As for your last point - I am totally cool. :)

Rule number one of forum life : "never argue with a mod"

hey, you may be wrong or right, but if you feel a mod has done you harm, you just try to deal with the situation through private messages or through the report link

but when you engage in a flame, on the forum, wether against a member or a mod, then you are 100% wrong

Okay, thats it. This thread is being sent to Karri right now. I don't care if I am getting suspended or banned for the things i've said in here. I apologize that I started this entire mess, But you two moderators are way out of control and this doesn't need to spread to other members of the forum now. Karri is desperately needed here.

Thanks for the apology, or though it surely holds little weight, given the incredibly rude things you are now posting towards the staff?

I am really confused by much of this. I posted in this thread because YOU had reported a post here, and now you are attacking me? A little ironic.

Wow did I pick a dilly of a post to read for my first time here lol

I wasn't referring to you and you're not involved with this so its alright. I was getting to replying to your message too.. sorry.

Andy, sorry for the insults. I just can't stand when people complain about stuff. Remember they cannot impress you every single episode. Also remember that the people that work on this show intend to keep this job for YEARS if they can. So obviously they cannot give away all the answers in a season. They have to go along slowly and try to make it last as long as they can. So if a episode goes slowly just relax and wait for the next one. I guess if it makes you feel better to complain about it go ahead. I would just worry about starting a backlash against the show. What if next weeks episode is equally as slow? What will you do then?

Thank you for the apology and it is accepted. I understand your complaint. This is the very first time i've ever NOT loved an episode of Lost. Yeah I was in these threads all last season defending the episodes too. But when you are really just so disappointed with something it helps to do something about it and this was the perfect place to do something about it in. I do not want all the answers this season. I find that the whole allure of Lost is that we really don't know what its about. I mean, yeah, we know its a group of survivors that crashed on a weird island. But we don't know if this is a story about some old government program, purgatory, time travel, aliens, or anything like that. We have no clue yet. To tell the truth, I'm more attracted to the questions then the answers. Yeah I want the answers someday, but I want more questions, I want more surprises, I want more unexpected twists. If they HAVE to make it go slowly and last longer than that just means they are running out of ideas. Nothing seemed to happen in this episode, I feel as though I could have not watched this episode and picked it up next week with few questions. I don't know what I will do if I don't like next week's episode either. I guess i'd give it another chance, three strikes should be enough eh? I mean, I wrote this complaint so that I have a chance of possibly the writers reading it and understanding my frustration. Maybe this will sound selfish but just think about it. If Lost isn't how I like it, then i'm going to quit watching it. I know that the show will go on without me. But if I don't enjoy it anymore, then i'm just gonna have to quit watching it. I have my concerns about Lost's future, but i've certainly haven't given up hope.

Then report me to a Mod. No, wait, they are too busy picking fights with all the fans....

that was a comment to someone with the condescending lecture about board life. Party Mod, if you came here because of a report then you're part of the problem as you're just inflaming the situation rather than recognizing that we have valid complaints. yes, I hope Karri gets here soon.

It isn't a matter of hurt feelings. Its a matter of allowing good discussion about Lost, which is what this board was set up for. I did report this post but does anyone know how I can make sure it goes to Kerri? She never tolerated this kind of thing when she was watching so much of it herself.
I agree 100% with you - we are all here to allow good discussion about Lost.

Yes it will go to Karri. She gets a copy of all reported posts.

I am not Karri, so I do not know when she will check her emails etc, but rest assured she will have received it.:)

You are correct about Karri and her tolernace. She has a much lower tolerance threshold for rudeness and attacks than any of the Moderators. :)

Partyman, I don't know if you read my earlier post but I am really surprised at how much this board seems to have gone downhill with personal attacks that were never tolerated last year. Including the post I made earlier in this thread. Karri would have taken it off in a second. she would take this very post off in half a second. I'm telling you that so you know I'm not arguing that I should get away with anything any more than anyone else (and also to get my opinion in in case I get banned). I just think its important for all the mods to have a cohesive strategy not to tolerate it or let it get out of control. Because, again, its going to end up like the ABC board.

Or maybe everyone could be an adult, act accordingly, and just stop flaming each other....

well i found the episode to be very very good, and i definately related to the backstory as my parents went thru a very similar custody battle that has been ongoing for 12 years.

but i can understand how someone who cant relate to it would find i boring, but i found myself on the virge of tears, because it depicted it almost EXACTLY the same as mine.

other than the backstory, i thought the epi was intruiging and fun.

Thanks for the apology, or though it surely holds little weight, given the incredibly rude things you are now posting towards the staff?

I am really confused by much of this. I posted in this thread because YOU had reported a post here, and now you are attacking me? A little ironic.

This is completely what I mean by NOT keeping your cool. Your baiting me now. Firstly, in light of saying that my joke was not funny and wasn't a "proper" joke, I can only see your follow up as an insult. I don't get why you would say that otherwise. Why did you even go there when you don't know what my nationality was? You guys are either really crafty to keep your insults on the fence or you're just very unfortunate in your English writing. I took Halfrek's advice and wondered if perhaps I WAS jumping the gun on some of the things she said, so I took that suggestion to what you said, I read carefully, looked at the words around it. Looked at how you used and why on earth you would say it. And it looks like a plain shot to me, Partyman.

Because I apologized for my rudeness throughout this thread does not mean that I do not think you two have been very unprofessional. Take that as an insult as you will, but its only a critique of the jobs you two have done here. As far as you taking action against myself? Leave that to an unbiased authority figure like Karri to decide, as you appear to have already formed an opinion against me by baiting me back into an argument. I honestly was shocked that the two of you didn't stop to think about this and realize how unprofessional you two have been. I guess people just hate being wrong. But, i've already sent this thread to Karri, and while i'm pretty certain i'll be punished, she will at least put this crap to rest and this won't be spewing out to other members of the forum. In any other job, your boss would be yelling at the two of you for how you've handled this situation. I used to work customer support and I lost my cool once. Why don't you think about that?

As for my humor. Well I guess you just have to interact with me a bit and get to see my posts before you understand it.

I think I will post my feeling on the EP before the fighting begins again. I was not very impressed at all. The one and only reason was to me, there was no progressing. I actually felt as though I was just reliving the last EP. Maybe that was the intent. I will never know.

That is all....continue

No i'm not acting mature here. At least its not REQUIRED of me. It's not my job to be a mature authority figure here. I'm just a member trying to enjoy this forum. I shouldn't have allowed the two of you to hook me into this crap. But I have a problem with being pushed around by anyone, moderator or not. Even if I get banned, I'm certainly not going to stand for this.

I wasn't referring to you and you're not involved with this so its alright. I was getting to replying to your message too.. sorry.



Thank you for the apology and it is accepted. I understand your complaint. This is the very first time i've ever NOT loved an episode of Lost. Yeah I was in these threads all last season defending the episodes too. But when you are really just so disappointed with something it helps to do something about it and this was the perfect place to do something about it in. I do not want all the answers this season. I find that the whole allure of Lost is that we really don't know what its about. I mean, yeah, we know its a group of survivors that crashed on a weird island. But we don't know if this is a story about some old government program, purgatory, time travel, aliens, or anything like that. We have no clue yet. To tell the truth, I'm more attracted to the questions then the answers. Yeah I want the answers someday, but I want more questions, I want more surprises, I want more unexpected twists. If they HAVE to make it go slowly and last longer than that just means they are running out of ideas. Nothing seemed to happen in this episode, I feel as though I could have not watched this episode and picked it up next week with few questions. I don't know what I will do if I don't like next week's episode either. I guess i'd give it another chance, three strikes should be enough eh? I mean, I wrote this complaint so that I have a chance of possibly the writers reading it and understanding my frustration. Maybe this will sound selfish but just think about it. If Lost isn't how I like it, then i'm going to quit watching it. I know that the show will go on without me. But if I don't enjoy it anymore, then i'm just gonna have to quit watching it. I have my concerns about Lost's future, but i've certainly haven't given up hope.


Yup that was the worst episode for YOU

Let me be cynical :)
I think you should send a PM to every member to say how bad the episode was, just in case someone missed you point

Opinion is one thing, respect is another thing
If most people will fight for the first, they often forget the latter

so just chill, it's only a TV show after all
if you think it is ever possible that you lose your interest in Lost, then why worry to lose that interest in the first place ?

Anyway, what did you expect from this episode ?
The raftees needed to get back to shore
would you have preferred more secrets revealed, and then *kazaam* the raftees are on the beach
The shark was a necessary step for some drama while they were "adrift"
But it was needed to be slow paced there because just putting a shark scene, or any other event in a very short, action packed, scene would not have made sense. That would have been called crappy editing or writing
Kate's point of view was also necessary, because it is preparing whatever Kate is going to do.
Without that slow paced episode, it would have been a dead end, only resolved by shortcuts that would have been even more disappointing

And Lost is a show about characters. On the DVD you can hear how JJ and Damon wanted to make the island a character of its own
Michael's flashbacks were a very clever parralel to Claire's story

Same kind of room with the lawyers. Michael is there to keep his son, Claire is there to give it up
The polar teddy bear was also very clever

These scened added depth to Michael's character.
And when he realised that it was "his fault" it pretty looked like Christian in the bar with Sawyer
They all have daddy issues, and Michael is the first "daddy" who wants to take matter into his own hands
That was a turning point in the show (calm before the storm)

That was not the best episode, but it was very clever, especially since it had to be quickly rewritten and edited

Even the title was clever
Adrift
this means to be carried by the current, without being able to alter course or speed
Of course the raftees were adrift
but the whole episode was that way. Even in the hatch they were gauging each other. It was a time where all they could do is follow the current of events, and struggle not to drown

very clever episode, maybe not one of the best, but very nicely done

Partyman, I don't know if you read my earlier post but I am really surprised at how much this board seems to have gone downhill with personal attacks that were never tolerated last year. Including the post I made earlier in this thread. Karri would have taken it off in a second. she would take this very post off in half a second. I'm telling you that so you know I'm not arguing that I should get away with anything any more than anyone else (and also to get my opinion in in case I get banned). I just think its important for all the mods to have a cohesive strategy not to tolerate it or let it get out of control. Because, again, its going to end up like the ABC board.
I agree with you. :)

We do not tolerate personal attacks. We do have a cohesive strategy, and I assure you that The Fuselage is in no danger of ending up "like the ABC board". :)

I think I will post my feeling on the EP before the fighting begins again. I was not very impressed at all. The one and only reason was to me, there was no progressing. I actually felt as though I was just reliving the last EP. Maybe that was the intent. I will never know.

That is all....continue


I think you just need to be patient and in future episodes your boredom will be paid off by things that happened in this episode - maybe they were trying to reiterate important things that you just don't know are important yet... or maybe not... but hey, it's only an hour out of your life (or 42 minutes if you Tivo'd it! lol) - and I thought the Michael flashback scenes were excellent, because they showed the viewers Michael's true feelings and relationship with his son... up till then he didn't come off as a caring father, or like he really even wanted anything to do with Walt until he was forced to take guardianship after Walt's mother died... at least to me that's how it seemed. I think the flashbacks show us that he did fight to get Walt, that he truly loves Walt, and that he was looking out for Walt's best interests.

Just my $0.02 on the matter... and a hopeful attempt to get this thread back on track.. :)

Sarahleigh wrote the mods are picking fights with the fans...

NO, you INFLAMED this with your post number #93 and subsequently replied with a passive-agressive, BS, manipulative apology in #94.

YOU are picking fights with the Mods.

Andy don't know what your problem is.. but your POSTS are hypocritical and antagonizing!

Knock me over with a fork did you or did you not write that this conversation should remain on the topic of Lost several times? You do not have faith in your convictions or you would QUALIFY your statements with subsequent actions. In other words actions speak louder then words and you write one thing but mean another. You seem to be obsessed with arguing your position in order to validate your point of view.

I don't care what you've written, the most intellegint thoughts on this board have come from homemakers, students, accountants, etc.. They have a profound understanding of storytelling. It makes me sad so many HACKS get published and receive critical acclaim, and alas they remain clueless.

The bottom line here; there are a few or a group of people who disliked this episidoe, they were diagreed with, you/they resorted to an Authoritarian stance in order to get opinions validated. Ignoring the very intelligent counter view. Tis kinda of funny I might be inclined to agree with some of your points had you held your ground on the merits of the show and not allowed your ego to get involved and started taking pot shots at this board and the Moderators.

I hope this thread goes to Karri, she will cut through the BS like fresh butter on warm bread!

I see your point FK, and maybe I was expecting way too much, but the show until this one has had me pretty much hooked from the opening scene. It wasnt terrible by any means, just a 5 steps forward and then 5 back kind of thing. I really felt no connection to it at all. The flashback, the shoes, the marks on the wall, nothing. Thats fine though as its only my opinion, and I will survive until next week regardless.

Dr. Urbino made you should learn how to read before you entitle yourself to such an asinine analysis.

omg, people please, put up your feet...relax, i have been an original Lost fan, new to this site...
please dont drive the show away by over-thinking, over-spoiling, letting blood...etc....
to the higher ups and actors amazing job keep up the good work, u are moving just fine for my lost buddies and myself... thanx
skybluelost

Did I take a wrong turn somewhere and wander into a classroom full of second graders? Seriously people - step away from your computers for 10 minutes, breathe a little bit, and realize how immature this entire mess you guys are wasting your time and energy on is...

You know, reading that long post of hallie's that y'all are complaining about, I see her disagreeing (vehemently oh yes) against those charges of yours, but nowhere in there do I see a single personal attack--except ON her. In fact, she is astonishingly low on adjectives. I missed the part where it was declared that moderators are not permitted to respond at all when someone criticizes them?

And just for the record--has Andy been banned? have any of those posts been deleted? I see a mod stepped in over the one post where Andy (and perhaps those who agree with him) was clearly insulted. I didn't see any point where the mods were stifling discussion that was within the site rules. Just disagreeing. As they ARE allowed to do.

The Partyman's note about not getting a joke because he wasn't American? Doesn't look at all like a slam on Americans to me (and I actually am one). If I was reading a board where most posters were British, and one was declaring that something was a joke that totally did not look like a joke to me, I would have to wonder if it was because I wasn't British. And that's it.

You guys are either really crafty to keep your insults on the fence or you're just very unfortunate in your English writing.

Just FTR, those really aren't the only two options in play here.



As for the eppy? Probably won't rank as my favorite ever. Not my least favorite either. Funny, when I look back on my favorite and least favorite episodes, it tends to be the flashbacks that decide where they rank, because the island action is almost always great. There wasn't a whole load that was new in the flashback, but Harold's acting added enough emotion to those scenes to pull them through for me. Regarding the island story progressing vs. not progressing, I am very glad those holes were filled in, since it was powerful to have the end of the last eppy the way it was, and also fascinating to see what went on before Jack got there.

And Sarahleigh? If Karri sees it your way on the earlier posts, she most certainly will NOT on that last one. Might still be time to undig your grave there if you still want to.

Okay Sarah, well let me see if I was wrong and an *** (I will apologize if I was)

YOU WROTE: And when the MOD joins in and takes sides, its all downhill from there. Mod, if you can't stay out the discussion, please move over and let someone else do the job that you are here to do.

Please qualify this first remark and explain how your apology subsatniated your postion on the matter?

Why should I? Are you the boss here? Talk about authoritarian!

I'm an American and I have no idea what anyone is talking about. I've read this whole thread... am I supposed to be offended at something?

I would say more but I'm afraid I'll be accused of calling someone names or perhaps hiding my insults in a maze of literary affectations meant to disguse my true intentions or even worse..sucking up to the mods.

I will say this..I was among the minority who liked "Homecoming'. I defended it and answered every argument. I convinced a few but most people were either 'meh' or 'worse episode ever' and few opinions have changed since then. You have a right to not like something and a right to express those opinions. However none of us has a right to have people agree with us nor do we have the 'right' to have people disagree with us and be forced to remain silent.

People will talk...or post in this situation. NOt much we can do about it...

This is completely what I mean by NOT keeping your cool. Your baiting me now. Firstly, in light of saying that my joke was not funny and wasn't a "proper" joke, I can only see your follow up as an insult. I don't get why you would say that otherwise. Why did you even go there when you don't know what my nationality was? You guys are either really crafty to keep your insults on the fence or you're just very unfortunate in your English writing. I took Halfrek's advice and wondered if perhaps I WAS jumping the gun on some of the things she said, so I took that suggestion to what you said, I read carefully, looked at the words around it. Looked at how you used and why on earth you would say it. And it looks like a plain shot to me, Partyman.

Because I apologized for my rudeness throughout this thread does not mean that I do not think you two have been very unprofessional. Take that as an insult as you will, but its only a critique of the jobs you two have done here. As far as you taking action against myself? Leave that to an unbiased authority figure like Karri to decide, as you appear to have already formed an opinion against me by baiting me back into an argument. I honestly was shocked that the two of you didn't stop to think about this and realize how unprofessional you two have been. I guess people just hate being wrong. But, i've already sent this thread to Karri, and while i'm pretty certain i'll be punished, she will at least put this crap to rest and this won't be spewing out to other members of the forum. In any other job, your boss would be yelling at the two of you for how you've handled this situation. I used to work customer support and I lost my cool once. Why don't you think about that?

As for my humor. Well I guess you just have to interact with me a bit and get to see my posts before you understand it.
No, I'm pretty sure it is you who are attempting to bait me. :)


I sincerely apologise to you (and all others who feel I have insulted their nationality in any way) for any confusion or error on my part in mentioning that I am not American, and any nationality-related misunderstandings that may have resulted from such. My comments were in no way intened to question or comment upon any issue of nationality, aside from expressing my own. I am aware that American and British humour sometimes differs, and was simply offering it as a possible explanation for why I did not find your "joke" to be funny..

As this is a US based site, with the overwhelming majority of users being American, most things tend to default around the US, and I apologise if such a default occured in this case, and I am sorry if my comment offended you at all.


Seriously think about it - if I had any idea it was a joke, why on earth would I have bothered to take the time to check the episode, write down the accurate running time, and compose an informative post about US content-to-commercial ratios?


I do take it as an insult, and one which I find particluary hurtful and upsetting. Though that is inconsequential, as my feelings are irrellevant when it comes to anything involving the Board Rules.

Numerous reported posts coming from various individuals in this thread have led me here. I was also asked by the Moderators involved in this thread to come read it and give an unbiased and objective analysis of the posts made by EVERYONE in the thread. By the time I got to the end of this thread, the posts had reached a very heated climax, so I locked the thread to prevent others from being swept into the flames.

Because of the disagreements involving two of the Moderators, a number of you have called for Karri to come and make a decision. Karri has final say over decisions regarding banning posters, but this is a large board with thousands of members. She is not able to be in all places at once. Because of this, she hand picked the Moderators herself, with the exception of one -- me. The Partyman, halfrek, speaker and Huskie have been Moderators since early this year and there have been very few complaints regarding the way they have handled their duties. With the membership of the board growing exponentially over the summer, it was determined that another Moderator would be needed, especially on the Linear Board over the weekends. I was recommended to Karri and she gave me the job.

Since I spend most of my time on the Linear Board, I am unfamiliar with most of the TB posters. I am friends with halfrek and The Partyman, but they can both verify, as can the other Mods and even Karri, that I have been known to disagree with them on occasion. They both asked me (separately) to come here and assess the situation, since Karri is not available at this time. They asked me because they respect my opinion, as well as my ability to express that opinion clearly. I want to clarify that KARRI will be the one to have the final say in this matter -- but it was very apparent that a decision needed to be made right NOW, until such time as Karri has had an opportunity to look over this matter herself.

With that said, I have read this entire thread tonight. It seems there was a great deal of miscommunication among some of the members, while others made attempts to bring things back to the point. My first impression when I read the title of the thread was, "Whoever started this thread was looking for a fight." Yes, everyone here is entitled to their own opinions about this show we all watch, but to name your topic "Worst Episode of Lost" -- is like painting a bullseye on your back. Regardless, I tried to keep an open mind. There were some very negative remarks, but there were also apologies. Things didn't really get out of hand until a few pages ago.

What stands out the most to me are the accusations that halfrek and The Partyman were not acting in a properly "professional" manner. Well, the fact is that their posts in this thread were NOT meant to be construed as moderated postings. They are fans of the show, just like I am a fan of the show, as are Karri, Artie, speaker and Huskie. We like to discuss the show just as much as the next person, but on the TB we don't have an option to post without colored-font. We DO have that option on the LB, and I believe we post more than 90% of the time WITHOUT the colored-font there.

So we have a thread starter (Andy) who titled the thread something that was bound to draw attention and breed negative comments, and we have two members (halfrek and The Partyman) who were posting their opinions about the show -- but because their fonts are colored, they also drew inflammatory responses from other members. I believe that MOST of the actual disagreements or cries of disrespect were the results of no more than simple misinterpretations or the lack of "getting" someone else's attempts at humor. Finally, we have an admitted BOAR (Sarahleigh) who smelled blood and came in to root around and see how much she could get away with before she got banned.

I will deal with the latter first: Sarahleigh, you're right -- you should have been banned a few pages back. I apologize for my tardiness in getting here to give you the punishment you deserve and that you actually ASKED for. So as not to disappoint, you have been BANNED. You're welcome.

As for halfrek and The Partyman, I know both of them very well and COULD easily find the humor in their posts, though I can also see how others not so familiar with them might misconstrue those same comments. It is not up to me to punish them, but I doubt that Karri will punish them either, much to the apparent chagrin of those calling for them to be "fired." Hate to burst your bubbles, but we are not PAID to be Moderators. Karri is the one who selected both of them and she has known them, quite literally, for YEARS. Not a SINGLE one of their posts in this thread were made with their "Mod-hats" on, but rather they were the posts of two very devoted fans, who are both head strong and admitted their own faults numerous times. They showed GREAT restraint to NOT issue any warnings or bannings in this thread. There were OTHER posters who said things such as "they are MODs, you have to show them respect" but I did not see any instance of EITHER of them saying as such. I believe that a number of the posters singled out their posts to disagree with or take offense to almost solely due to the color of their fonts. Towards the end, I believe that they both let things get too far and too personal. But they were both rational enough to ask for the opinions of the other Mods when they recognized that things had really gotten out of hand.

Finally, to address Andy, the person who started this thread. You already had one strike against you for naming this thread what you did, but you are most certainly right -- you do have a right to your opinion and seeing as you consider yourself a true fan, you brought your complaints to the best possible place to make your opinion heard. I found it ironic that as many times in this thread that you told other posters that they were entitled to their opinion as well, I seemed to recall quite a number of "reported posts" coming from you, reporting the same people whose opinions you were claiming to respect. I still was giving you the benefit of the doubt though, because like I said in the previous paragraph -- I could see how some of halfrek's comments, and then The Partyman's, could be misinterpreted. I read every single post. I commend you on your ability to articulate your thoughts, but your posts went so fast between "I accept your apology" to "how dare you insult me like that" -- well, I think I may have whiplash. Just looking at the first couple of pages, there were a number of members who were disagreeing with your assessment of the episode, yet halfrek was the first one that you took offense to -- though I didn't see her post as being any more inflammatory or "insulting" as you immediately declared it to be. In fact, the only people you seemed to have the most problems with were halfrek and The Partyman. You did report one other poster, but forgave him when he came back on to apologize. But you wouldn't give the same courtesy to halfrek or The Partyman -- and that was unfair and uncalled for. You are also being banned, not for your opinion -- but for the numerous times you reignited the flames, just as they were dying down.

And just to clarify for the THIRD TIME -- all of these decisions will be made reviewed by Karri, who will have the final say in this matter. In the interim, this thread will remain CLOSED.