What did you think?

Good poll, dd. Nice options for both extremes.

You're kind of like the Locke of the Fuselage.

You're kind of like the Locke of the Fuselage.

Now Beaver, I wouldn't go that far.

Ha! Chuckle! :smile:

Love the options for this poll. My vote: Seriously sub-par, a real letdown. Not quite the worst, though definitely in my bottom 5. It was entertaining in parts, but the more I think about it and read other opinions of it, the more I find myself disliking it. 2/10

I dont quite understand why people are so down on this episode. The symbol being on the shark is major. So is Kate almost getting shot and dying. Charlie, Jin, and Sawyer are reunited, under the worst of circumstances at the end of the episode. Sawyer pulls a bullet out of his fricken arm!!

My only guess can be because of the flashback, and that people dont feel any sympathy for Michael for losing Walt. And how he handled it afterwards. But if you went thru everything he went thru to get Walt back, ultimately fail in that task. Then get Walt back only to find that he hates you. Then you go thru the horrible experience of a plane wreck. THEN finally start to get thru to Walt, then to lose him again to the "Others" I'd be a little P.O.'d too.

I'd already read on the forums that it was the "worst episode ever" before I watched it, so I wasn't expecting much. Maybe that's why I really enjoyed it. We found out heaps more than some other episodes. The flashbacks were maybe a teensy bit boring(probably only because there were no revelations of long ago interactions with other lostaways), but not that bad. I rated it above average.

"Definitely above average"

It wasn't as good as Man of Science, Man of Faith, but it was still a lot more intriguing than the first half of season one (which I still really like) before there even was a hatch.

Dangerdork, I rate "Adrift" definitely above average for the following reasons, additionally I have a few comments for you...

Why do I rate the episode above average?

1.) Because I am completely vested in EVERY character on this show... I would like to see an hour of Hurley running throught the airport, or an hour of Claire arguing with her boyfriend about peeing on a stick, or an hour of Nadia and Sayid's in the prison camp, an hour of Sawyer giving all the characters a new nickname, or an hour of Sceve doing anything, and many, many others....

2.) I watch this show because it is thought-provoking and not some BS adjenda being shoved down my throat. In otherwords, I watch the show for one hour every Wednesday, but I spend the rest of the week "slacking my duties" to try and understand what the hell happened and attempt to unravel the mystery; such as the significgance of Locke and Rousseau's name, Freemason conspiracy theories, Eschatology including the Mayan calander, clone and alien theories, Esoteric Psychology, Theology, Determinism, and reading this AWESOME BOARD and the amazing people who post here!

My comments for you are based on YOUR posts on several different threads and commentary. The creative team have been consistent about one FACT, they are fans of "The Long Take" and "Italian Neoralism", as well as "Montage sequences" subsequently I would imagine they actually prefer Renoir over Hou. The best example of this I can use is "a Hanging Hobbit", although they did incorporate modern techniques in the edit and photography, they eloquently balanced old school and new school to create one of the best scenes I have ever seen in my life on the big screen or the small screen. Javi has written very clearly that he needs to write for himself, which AS an Artist working for the ABC Corporation, I truly respect him stating that honestly and publicly on this board.

I think on this point we agree, except I do not accept your assumptions. I do enjoy reading your critique and analysis, however I have three problems with your observations because they do not remain consistent.

It seems clear your prefer an Auteur style of film making and might be a huge fan of Hitchcock. (who I love too) However I tend to prefer a structuralist approach when discussing film theory. The one thing you keep missing is that FILM theory is is one of the most argued and debated subjects among scholars today, so although you are very SET in your idealism, especially with the subject of suspension of disbleif, I must argue; storytelling, storyarcs, three-acts plays, loglines, protaganist, and antagonists can NOT be applied to this episodical. Mark my words they will make histroy with fan support. Again back to Hitchcock he was loved by fans but most critics hated him and YET he is one of the most important filmmakers of our time.

Specific comments/questions:

You wrote the following in this threadRe: MAJOR continuity error? How did Sawyer know about "the boy"?

1.) YOUR POST#309...My biggest concern is that it seems this delicate and artful balance may be ruined by network politics and trying to "give us what we want"

Unless you can give us all concrete evidence that this is a fact and not just assumption, the cliche goes it makes an arse of you and me to ASSUME. My response to this statement is, JJ and Damon are arguing for their vision and they WON this argument if it even happened.

Furthermore, your example is a contradiction, "Adrift" is the type of show that people complained about last year - it was slow and did not offer a huge insight to the mysteries of the Island much like several episodes last year such as Special, Hearts and Minds, Soplitray, and In Translation. Which I loved those episodes! You claim to be a proponent of the way the series began and the integrity of the series, but by disliking that episode so veheimently... well it just does not make sense.

2.) YOU WROTE IN POST #305If that's the case, then they were writing to cater to the least common denominator of their audience and compromising the story with misplaced dialog in order to do so. Bad, lazy, cheating writing.

Two questions!

a.) Please explain further, what is the least common demoninator of THIS audience?

b.) The last episode was written by Steven Maeda and Leonard Dick, so are you calling them bad, lazy, cheating writers? If not please explain what you meant?

3.) YOU WROTE in post#297Well, with fiction there's this thing called "suspension of disbelief." This show is actually a bunch of actors pretednding to be marooned on an island, and we the audience are pretending right along with them. In order for us to become involved in the story, we need to convince ourselves that it's real, or at least believable, as much as possible during the experience.

For some people, myself included, it's very important that a good story remain consistent to itself and provide some kind of plausibility to its more fantasitc elements.

A continuity error shatters our suspension of disbelief, and with this type of show so laden with symbols and tangled, recursive story lines, that can be a serious flaw. I'm sure that some people are complaining just for the sake of complaining, but for me, when Lost makes these kind of gaffes, it's particularly frustrating.

Without the continuity and plausibility errors, I would agree that this could already be considered one of the best TV shows ever. And the creative team have certainly demonstrated with the originalty, complexity , and intelligence of their writing that they have the skill and talent to avoid these errors.

So here is where you are completely wrong and misunderstand the concept of Suspension of Disbeleif. A story of this kind OR something like The Stand, Lord of The Rings, X-files, or 24 all need to incorporate the Suspension of Disbeleif in order to maintain the plausability of the show. A continuity error does not SHATTER the suspension of disbeleif, the nature of the concept deems it irrelevant. Especially when dealing with a subject matter that is Esoteric in nature, mythological, or even an action film. In an Honest debate, these should be two entirely different subjects. Why amalgamate them? It did not substantiate your point of view, in fact it invalidated it.

4.) YOU wrote in response to lostbylost comments: I have read your posts here and in other threads as well and not only enjoyed them but was intrigued by them. You have made a MAJOR error, you called Danielle, Dominique. I'm not sure you can be forgiven. The point is I understood who you were taking about but you misstated yourself. Like I said this has nothing to do with you personally but I was able to decipher who you were taking about. I believe we all need to give the writers a bit of a break, if not then they need to write this so that a young child can decipher all that goes on. Before anyone accuses me of saying that someone is unintelligent, please stop and read that IMO, the writers must write to a level that may be slightly above normal TV fare. NO insult intended. I think that the side that is vigorously suggesting the MAJOR continuity error are expressing this in some way. They are just trying to point out something that could be an error.

Ohhhh BUSTED! *hides* MAJOR error, good thing I don't write for the show.

Seriously, I think the writers have proven that they are capable of producing scripts FAR above the standards of normal tv. and see my other post justifying the use of hyperbole.

PS - at least I don't still call her "The French Chick."

Seriously, I think the writers have proven that they are capable of producing scripts FAR above the standards of normal tv....

Dude this comment and YOUR apology for making this mistake is admirable. None of the recent banned posters would have done that without trying to save face! I have nothing but respect for you on this point!

So, I'm spent, tis all I got tonight. I will try to answer any questions and explain my point of view futher if I have time this week. If not next week. :)

Kindest regards!

edits:

1. to fix typos and other spelling errors.
2. to add also please look at the 10, 000 posts and the contemplation under this board for "Adrift" ALONE, and the diverse subject matter explored, obviously a bunch of people took a great deal from this episode and made some extremely inteeligent observations and it has inspired some well thought out new theories.
3. the entire debate on the continuity error was ended by Gregg Nations in his post/explanation. No matter what people want to argue, that ended that debate!
4. Lastly, until I know why Locke can walk, the shaving habits, too much or lack of hair growth, and all the other inconsequential questions will remain secondary because they may be wrapped in the mystery of the island.

lol, sorry, now poofing for real - have a great day You all Everybody!

Well, DrUrbino, you are a hard act to follow!! That was a very well thought out and and very well written response! I must say I agree with your points numbered 1 & 2 up at the top of your post.

I also would like to point out that, in my opinion anything following MOSMOF would not be rated a 10 on a poll like this. The writers are fab! We should know the pattern by now, they give us a high enery, surprise packed episode followed by an episode or two of story telling and character development. I really enjoyed "Adrift", but it had a different feel than MOSMOF. Admittedly I was at first a little let down after this episode just because it wasn't as intense as EP 2.1, but after spending 20 minutes on The 'lage I realized that there was much to talk about and a lot to speculate on: Who is Him? What does one snowman say to another? Why is the 8-sided symbol on the shark as well as almost everything in the hatch? How long has Desmond been down in the hatch? Has anyone counted the marks on the wall? Was Michael really in the same room as Claire when giving up his child and if so what is the significance? And many others.

My point is is that I see so many new people here on the 'lage the show is GAINING popularity, it was HUGE last season so that means things are only getting better...I want this to be the most popular show of all time, but if everyone gives up after the 2nd eppy then where will we be?

For those of you who were disappointed, the writers will come through, In my opinion they have never failed, but stick with it, I promise it will pay off in the end, actually probably next wedndesday!!

Adrift was definitly entertaining to say the least. Now granted it was no Walkabout but it was still quality. :biggrin:

Anything that breaks these rules, whether in terms of milieu, story plausibility, or character, disrupts the immersion and interferes with Suspension of Disbelief.

Continuity applies to character just as well as it does to plot.

I wanted to wait for your response (so as not to appear to be answering for you) before chiming in with my opinion on the Suspension of Disbelief issue. I had the same reaction you are describing in the quote above when I read the initial comment from DrUbino. I'm not sure I entirely understood the good Doctor's definition of Suspension of Disbelief but disruptions in character are responsible for the majority of my complaints when it comes to network television. Anytime a character says or does something that violates the "spirit" of that character, I immediately snap out of being in that state of mind where I feel as though I am a voyer looking in on something real and end up thinking something like "no way he'd do that." For example, if, when discovering the statutes were filled with heroin, Charlie would have simply shrugged his shoulders and moved on, I would have been yanked right out my disbelief and right into my "oh puhlease!" state of mind. Now, it would be possible for someone to argue that Charlie could have a reaction like that since he has given up heroin but anyone who has any experience with drug addictions knows how wrong that kind of reaction would be.

The second I start thinking about Charlie or Jack or Locke or anyone else as a "character" while I'm in the middle of watching a new episode is the second my Suspension of Disbelief has been interrupted and subsequently, my enjoyment of the show diminishes. I think of them in terms of characters when analyzing an episode but the hour where I'm watching I want to seep into their world. Otherwise, the show would be a waste of my time and is the primary reason I watch virtually no other television programs (programs in terms of dramas, comedys, etc. not news, documentaries or sports).

I think Adrift was an above-average episode overall. I agree with JAZZYJ, it wasn't any Walkabout, but it was still a good episode.

thanks for the poll, it is fair to finally give the people that got it, and saw so much more to Adrift in its signs, symbols etc. has anyone else noticed everytime it is mentioned of someone trying to get off the island, or the plane wreck, to Desmond his reaction is smug, kind of almost whimsical????
skybluelost

I rated it above average. I liked it, it gave me some information no matter how seemingly minor it seems at this point and I didnt walk away feeling cheated.

Of course in retrospect there is only one other episode I would rate the same so I suppose its definetly in my bottom two. But I still very much liked it!

Oh and DrU didnt know you posted on the TB! Nice to see you around... Your post and dangerdorks response was very interesting. And we cant forget Astrohman.

I hope to see a poll like this for every episode in the future.

The next episode won't disappoint. Trust me, Pauly.

I feel a little guilty voting that I was a bit disappointed, but that really didn't have anything to do with the content of the episode. The editing was awkward and kept me from "seeping in" like I wanted.

Seeing as how, originally, the flashbacks were supposed to feature Sawyer, I can see now why the cuts seemed too abrupt. They didn't flow with the raft scenes very well.

Now, I enjoyed them all the same - and I don't know why some people think Michael's story is boring - but I probably would have been a lot happier with the original setup of the episode.

Seriously sub-par, a real letdown. LOST can do a TON better than this. A few shiny moments don't distract me from the poor overall conception, construction, and execution of this episode.

I'm sure it's not a trend, though. Just this episode. Not every one can be a work of art.

As a viewer in the UK catching up, I watched Exodus then episode 1&2 of the 2nd season all together and I think it affected my enjoyment of the 2nd episode somewhat.

Obviously Exodus was absolutely rivoting and exciting, a brill finale. Then of course the first episode has to be great too as most people have waited so long for the next installment. After that I had to watch the next episode (S2E2) straight away as I was desperate to find out what happened next in the hatch and to my utter disappointment and frankly I was a little PO'd (who could say I get a little too involved in LOST? lol) when I don't get what I want. Instead it goes backwards again. argghhhh.

If I hadn't been so keen to find out what happened next with them I think I would enjoyed the episode so much more. There were definitely some great moments in it but it just didn't live upto my expectations.

It didn't help that I've watched the majority of the 1st season within a couple of weeks and now I have to wait it out week to week with everyone else. It's killing me. I can't wait till tomorrow when I can download it. Yay.

I rated it as one of the best - even though a lot of it was a repeat of the 1st week, I thought it was great to watch it from a different perspective. It definitely changed my reaction and clarified perceptions to certain things from the first episode.

It was defintely good to see it from different perspectives, especially seeing what happened with Kate but I think Locke's was a bit boring apart from the computer thing, what the hell was that all about - execute?. I really need to know what happens next with the whole trust problem with Jack and Locke and who is it that Desmond's waiting for? Jack? Oh I can't wait. lol

I guess I'm easy to please, as I voted for "Great show!". I can only go by what I felt as I was watching it, and I was on tenterhooks the whole time. I can deal with not moving too far forward every episode, if the suspense is as excruciating as the writers have made it, and if the character focus is as strong. I learned a lot about Sawyer and Michael, and even Locke in this episode.

Not to mention Desmond! As I've posted elsewhere, it's amazing to me how much depth, nuance, and personality this character has developed in less than 30 minutes of screen time. I suppose he's not long for this world (Charlie will parachute into the hatch and riddle him with bullets as soon as the castaways get the better of him, no doubt :-)), but I can't wait to learn some more about him.

Little bits like Kate and the chocolate, Charlie and the statue, Locke's quick thinking, etc. add pathos and humor as well. As I said, I can only judge based on what I was thinking and feeling "live", and I was honestly enthralled.

Great discussion, guys.

I voted for above average. Lost has yet to truly disappoint me with an episode. Many of the scenes in Adrift were necessary, showing what happened with Locke and Kate in the hatch was needed, and Michael and Sawyer were well... adrift! They're in the middle of the freakin ocean after the Gorton's fisherman and his crew just blew up their raft and stole Michael's kid. This episode was exactly what I thought it would be (well, except for Jin, I thought he'd be around too but that was sorta answered with the end of the episode).

Anytime I curse the commercials, I think Lost has done it's job. Ah... I remember the days of watching episode after episode back to back, without commercials. Now I'm an addict like everyone else, trying to get his Lost fix as fast as possible.

The WORST part of last week's episode was during the commercial break right after the raft is getting attacked by something under the water. The commercials ran long because of some local radio station ad that kept popping up, and I actually missed where they found out it was a shark and Sawyer dropped the bullets. It took every bit of restraint I had not to throw my remote at the TV. Commercials suck!

Less than 3 hours till Orientation!

I said that it was not bad, but nothing special. My personal opinion is that it should have been combined with MoS, MoF for a 2-hour premiere. It would have made a LOT more sense that way. JMO.

I think it was the worst eppy. of LOST, but, like I said, bad LOST is still better than anything else on TV.

I hope to see a poll like this for every episode in the future.
I'm surprised that it's taken this long for someone to do an episode poll!

This is a great idea! I'm glad we're doing episode polls. I wish there was a way we could rate them all in one place, so we can see how they stack up.

I was really disappointed with this episode. There was too much rehashing, too much flashbacks. Now we're getting flashbacks to the the previous weeks' episodes!!! What's next -- flashbacks to what happened before the commercial break?

Wouldn't it be clever if each episode this season showed a different perspective on the Hatch without ever moving forward?
Shhhhh -- don't give them any ideas!

:lipsseal:

There was too much rehashing, too much flashbacks. Now we're getting flashbacks to the the previous weeks' episodes!!!

I felt it was kinda beating it over our heads about the guys figuring out the Others took Walt. But then again, the writers were harassed all summer by people asking them who the people on the boat were - and were they really the Others???

Javi was at the end of his rope answering those questions over and over! :tongue1: So, I suppose the episodes rehashing events are to get everyone up to speed so they can proceed with the story they want to tell.......

SQUEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only 45 more minutes!!!!!!!!!!

:jump1:

I guess I'm easy to please, as I voted for "Great show!". I can only go by what I felt as I was watching it, and I was on tenterhooks the whole time. I can deal with not moving too far forward every episode, if the suspense is as excruciating as the writers have made it, and if the character focus is as strong. I learned a lot about Sawyer and Michael, and even Locke in this episode.

Not to mention Desmond! As I've posted elsewhere, it's amazing to me how much depth, nuance, and personality this character has developed in less than 30 minutes of screen time. I suppose he's not long for this world (Charlie will parachute into the hatch and riddle him with bullets as soon as the castaways get the better of him, no doubt :-)), but I can't wait to learn some more about him.

Little bits like Kate and the chocolate, Charlie and the statue, Locke's quick thinking, etc. add pathos and humor as well. As I said, I can only judge based on what I was thinking and feeling "live", and I was honestly enthralled.

Great discussion, guys.
liked your post, i have been amazed with Desmond also, again glad to see "the others" that got Adrift come to it's defense
skybluelost

i kept reading it was a bad episode so when i watched it i wasn't expecting much, but i enjoyed it and thought that it added to this series being even better than last series!

I said that it was not bad, but nothing special. My personal opinion is that it should have been combined with MoS, MoF for a 2-hour premiere. It would have made a LOT more sense that way. JMO.

I think that would have definitely worked much better. Because it would have carried straight on I wouldn't have had the same expectations. Can't wait to see next ep hopefully I can watch it today yay. I'm staying off anything that will spoil it for me for a change. lol.

It might have just been me, but I thought this episode was a lot better the second time around. I've found with a lot of the "slower" episodes, actually. Once I get over the anticipation and I've had some time to digest what happened, I find that I see a more of the nuances and have more of an appreciation for the "smaller" moments.

For example, when Adrift first aired, I found Micheal and Sawyer's conversations a little random and, quite frankly, a little annoying. This time I was better able to appreciate the evolution behind their arguments and really appreciated that last scene when Micheal finally broke down and Sawyer was left in the (somewhat foreign) and awkward situation of trying to comfort him.

If nothing else, this just reinforces my view that Lost hasn't "lost its edge" this season. IMHO, it's the same old awesome show that it's always been. And the only show that allows me to enjoy the reruns (almost) as much as the new episodes. :smile:

I'm glad to see someone else appreciated this episode! It's been one of my favorites so far and I can't understand why people think Michael's story is boring - it's achingly raw and emotional. But if you're not a parent, I guess I could see how it would seem unimportant. For parents, however, it rips at your darkest fear: losing your child.

I was disappointed with the editing in this episode because the cuts seemed abrupt and didn't flow very well with the raft scenes - but a lot of that has to do with the fact that Sawyer's flashbacks were supposed to be shown instead of Michaels. The last minute insertion of Michael's flashbacks were a little awkward - but nonetheless I enjoyed his story.

:)

I thought that episode was great ! :) seeing Sawyer pull a bullet from his arm, now that was a brave thing to do in my opinion. I loved the comment about the shark bit as well. I am a Lost fan forever ! :)

I thought that episode was great ! :) seeing Sawyer pull a bullet from his arm, now that was a brave thing to do in my opinion. I loved the comment about the shark bit as well. I am a Lost fan forever ! :)


Sayer pulling the bullet from his arm himself was defintely badass. It actually ranks as one of my favorite moments of the show. But the rest of the episode was one of the worst episodes. Not only were Michael's flashbacks absolutely pointless and only rehashed old information, Michael's interaction with Sawyer was childish at best. The whole shark thing was really poorly done. Instead of having a a really suspenseful encounter with a natural predator, we get a weak shark with a dharma logo that croaked after one or two bullets. Great Whites the world over would be ashamed at the lack of pain that this shark could take. In my opinion, this episode could have been really promising but lacked everything that it should have had.

That and they showed us about 5 minutes of hatch footage that we had already seen in "Man of Science, Man of Faith."