I tried. I really tried to give this show a break. But it has jumped the shark.

We are in a hatch on an island and we find a guy with computers and washer dryers. We act totally normal. Wouldnt you be out of your mind? Wouldnt you be unable to function?

And then there is Hurley, jack, locke, kate, and sayid in the room. Hurley hasnt told anyone that the numbers he won the lottery with are on the hatch. He doesnt when they are all together and typing them in to the computer. They have a gun to Desmond at first- then just let him go away. He cant answer anything? Jack knows he has met desmond before but that is not paramount on his mind - he is not incredulous at this fact and doesnt tell anyone. Sayid fixes a computer without any explanation. They argue about doing the numbers in the computer when they could just do them and have 108 minutes to discuss it afterward.

And on and on and on and on. Its like a bad cartoon where the audience sees something right behind a character but everytime the character turns around it is gone.

THIS IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD BEHAVE. IT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD COMMUNICATE.

These people are supposed to be smart but yet we are subjected to them acting like morons continuously.

Sorry, im done with this show.

I tried. I really tried to give this show a break. But it has jumped the shark.

We are in a hatch on an island and we find a guy with computers and washer dryers. We act totally normal. Wouldnt you be out of your mind? Wouldnt you be unable to function?

And then there is Hurley, jack, locke, kate, and sayid in the room. Hurley hasnt told anyone that the numbers he won the lottery with are on the hatch. He doesnt when they are all together and typing them in to the computer. They have a gun to Desmond at first- then just let him go away. He cant answer anything? Jack knows he has met desmond before but that is not paramount on his mind - he is not incredulous at this fact and doesnt tell anyone. Sayid fixes a computer without any explanation. They argue about doing the numbers in the computer when they could just do them and have 108 minutes to discuss it afterward.

And on and on and on and on. Its like a bad cartoon where the audience sees something right behind a character but everytime the character turns around it is gone.

THIS IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD BEHAVE. IT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD COMMUNICATE.

These people are supposed to be smart but yet we are subjected to them acting like morons continuously.

Sorry, im done with this show.

Thanks for sharing?

I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I think you're in the minority. Yes, everyone wants to know exactly what's going and and wants to have all the mysteries solved. But I think that's a lot to ask for. You should look at what the episode had. Lots of interesting interaction and dialogue between Jack and Locke. Even more backstory on Locke's character. I mean the show was amazing and I don't say that just because I love Locke. I mean it because it was great storytelling.

I had some trouble with Desmond saying "damn" last week, but "darn" this week.
Same line, same scene, but "darn"?? what's up with that?

Its not so much that I want answers.

Its that I want an intelligent show with any answers.

The characters are not intelligent and do not behave according to their own personas - and this is lazy writing.

Thanks for sharing?
Hello... exactly!

Imagine for a second that you are Jack.

Wouldnt the FIRST THING YOU DO, before you could conceive of doing anything else, is say to Desmond "How the hell did I meet you 4 years ago and now we are both here?"

And would Desmond upon realizing he has met Jack before be so blase about the whole thing?

I would think that this would be a show stopper - enough to put a shotgun in your mouth and blow it off - but both characters seem fine with not asking each other or finding out.

IS THAT HOW THEY WOULD ACT??

My opinion is diametrically opposite of yours. If you don't like the show, go to a hater board. No point in making people mad here.

Look, I realize that there are loyalists who cant think about anything other than how good the show is.

No problem. Dont read. But I am sharing because I know there are people who are frustrated just like me. People who feel that any good writing needs to rely on the consistency of character development and not random unexplained behavior.

If you love this show no matter what this thread is not for you.

THIS IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD BEHAVE. IT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD COMMUNICATE.

These people are supposed to be smart but yet we are subjected to them acting like morons continuously.

Sorry, im done with this show.


YOU, nor anyone you know, have ever been on an island like this...You have no idea what's going on and why they act like they do. No one does.

Its so funny - if you post something that is in dissent to the popular opinion here you are told to go to a hater board?

What?

Ever hear of thinking? How about a discussion?

Go to a hater board and let you drink the Kool Aid. No problem.

No, I think the general census is along the lines of, "If you don't like it, fine. But we really don't care to hear it."

No one is forcing you to watch the show, if you don't want to you are more then welcome not to but why post about it?

OK jet -what is a POSSIBLE - and I mean ANYTHING POSSIBLE - explanation for them behaving this way?

Just connect some of the dots for me. Please.

Adios amigo, more great show for the rest of us.

As Hurley might say, Dude.. why would you bother to post to say that you are done with the show? Do you want us to convince you otherwise? To beg you to watch again?
Sorry, im done with this show.
While I accept your apology, I have to say, I'm not sure it's needed. If you've decided that you're done, just move on. We'll be ok. :)

i agree with both sides. i think you're overreacting a bit, but i do grow tired with loyalists who can't see a single fault in the show.

it's the best show on tv, but this season has been really iffy so far.

Why is there such militant opposition to anything questioning the show?

If you dont want to read it or participate - dont!

Im just looking to be educated. Im open minded. Im sharing my opinions in the hopes of being shown new opinions or similar opinions.

If you want a rah rah thread just go in the other 100000 posts here.

As Hurley might say, Dude.. why would you bother to post to say that you are done with the show? Do you want us to convince you otherwise? To beg you to watch again?

While I accept your apology, I have to say, I'm not sure it's needed. If you've decided that you're done, just move on. We'll be ok. :)

Ding ding ding!

WOW. Im really amazed at the amount of folks on here that just cant or wont engage in an intelligent discussion if it at all threatens their like of the show.

Really incredible.

Um... I thought the whole thing with Jack not confronting Desmond was that maybe Jack couldn't remember all that well who Desmond was, or maybe it was too much for him. You saw how Jack was going nuts about the whole concept of putting the numbers in and pressing the button. Seeing this guy in a hole in the middle of an island is so out there for Jack, and we know that he has a hard time believing in weird stuff.

He hasn't slept in a while either...

Does anyone have anything to say to the content of my message?

There have been 10 replies but nothing content oriented.

I think everything you've pointed out is within character.

Hurley has explained that he knows that people think he is crazy when he talks about the numbers being cursed and that he doesn't want people to think him crazy. He tries to stop Locke from inputting the numbers and when Locke gets the last number wrong he is willing to allow him to enter it incorrectly.

They take the gun off Desmond because they realize he is more concerned with trying to fix the computer than with hurting them.

Sayid explained why he didn't need an explanation. He saw there was a counter counting down and he deduced that the broken computer is necessary to halt/reset that countdown. Being a scientist and philosopher, this wasn't a difficult problem for him.

Jack doesn't want to admit that there is a fate and destiny. He is the "man of science", a doctor. That's why he doesn't make a big deal about having known him before. But as Locke points out, Jack is angry only because Desmond recognized him thereby forcing Jack to acknowledge that he recognizes Desmond as well.

These characters are staying true to themselves and Jack showed a great evolution in this episode back to a more Locke-friendly Jack.

No offense intended, but perhaps the problem is that you are a lazy viewer.

Um... I thought the whole thing with Jack not confronting Desmond was that maybe Jack couldn't remember all that well who Desmond was, or maybe it was too much for him. You saw how Jack was going nuts about the whole concept of putting the numbers in and pressing the button. Seeing this guy in a hole in the middle of an island is so out there for Jack, and we know that he has a hard time believing in weird stuff.

He hasn't slept in a while either...

EXCELLENT. That is what I am looking for. I can accept this, but being that he is so sleep deprived and at the end of his rope - I would think he would react by just holding a gun to desmond and demanding answers. He never asked the pivitol question "HOW THE HELL ARE WE HERE TOGETHER!!!???"

Imagine for a second that you are Jack.

Wouldnt the FIRST THING YOU DO, before you could conceive of doing anything else, is say to Desmond "How the hell did I meet you 4 years ago and now we are both here?"

And would Desmond upon realizing he has met Jack before be so blase about the whole thing?

I would think that this would be a show stopper - enough to put a shotgun in your mouth and blow it off - but both characters seem fine with not asking each other or finding out.

IS THAT HOW THEY WOULD ACT??

Jack wasn't sure it was Desmond and refuses to believe something so coincidental. So, he does not want to blurt out "Holy crap! I knew you 4 years ago. There must be some meaning to our meeting again!". That sort of thing stares him in the face, but he doesn't want to believe me.

Desmond can be passive about the whole thing because the guy is nuts. He's been stuck in a room for 3 years now. I wouldn't expect anything out of his actions. He's been trained to believe that the timer is not to be tampered with, so I'm sure his focus is on getting away, not getting aquainted with Jack.

Sorry, im done with this show.


Well then.... SEE YA.

IS THAT HOW THEY WOULD ACT??
Hard to say... people are different. Usually when people, oh I don't know, decide they're done with a show they either turn off the TV or change the channel or get on with their lives in some other way. But then there are a select few that go to the shows forums and complain about the show.
Anyway, I think Desmond was ready to talk about the fact that it IS odd that the two met up here, and Jack chased after Desmond because he was probably curious too but Desmond took the conversation into the direction of his wife and he just didn't want to go there I guess... I don't know but its certainly nothing that would stop me from watching the show... and I'm guessing you'll be watching next Wednesday too.

Everybodyhateshugo - thanks for the response.

Seeing this guy in a hole in the middle of an island is so out there for Jack, and we know that he has a hard time believing in weird stuff.

He hasn't slept in a while either...


I agree. I also think Jack is in a complete state of denial. You're right. All these island occurances are just too much for someone as grounded as Jack. He may not have acted as you or I would have, and it was a bit frustrating to watch, but he acted as Jack would.

Vanzack, you haven't tried to give this show a break at all. You have been slamming and coming on this board since last season talking about how much you hate the show. Once again, call me a prick if you will, and I remember saying the exact same thing to you last season... don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out.

-Harv-

Dangerdork - cant wait to hear what you have to say.

I ask one question. Hurley knows the numbers and their significance. He won the lottery with them. He made a quest before getting on the plane to find out their significance.

Then he sees them on the hatch. Then he sees them entered in to the computer. Being that you are trying to survive TOGETHER on an island - isnt this information something you would share?

Everybodyhateshugo - thanks for the response.
No problem. It helped me further appreciate just how amazingly this show is put together.

One further note is that - The threat of impending doom tends to give people a singularity of purpose.

Van, it's network TV. We've been tortured to death with the same blah-blah writing on other shows forever, all with the same result of slot-a into slot-b. While this show does sometimes becomes "lazy" in it's writing of it's characters, it does present plot-lines that we haven't seen before and we become engrossed in it's outcome.

Thanks harv - you and onaonxm must live very well in your shell.

you are quite the conversationalists. If we disagree with you - well then we are wrong and shouldnt post.

A little more on Jack, I took this from the "Jack on the Verge" thread, this is probably the best description of Jack at the moment:

besides the fact that jack needs rest, I think seeing Desmond brings home to Jack that just maybe Locke is right, that all this is happening for a reason, and that just blows him away. His whole reality is shifting, and he is having a really hard time dealing with it. Jack has always held on to logic and science. He's a realist. And he's finding himself at a loss and unable to handle and succeed in the situation he finds himself in applying logic. He can't use his mind and he is realizing that he's not in control. That's really tough for a guy like Jack to handle.
As for Jack and Sarah, I think something has happened to her, that is why Jack is so emotional when he says "I married her" obviously there's more to that.

wilekiyote - I AGREE. Its like having a kid that is so smart but gets D's in school.

Thats why I care - because it has such potential and is not like every other show and I hold it to a higher standard. I have never posted anything about WIll and Grace.

Thanks Sickotriz

plausible.

What about Hurley?

Thanks harv - you and onaonxm must live very well in your shell.

you are quite the conversationalists. If we disagree with you - well then we are wrong and shouldnt post.
Whatever man, I call them as I see them. I even took a second to address how I see the Desmond/Jack thing. If you don't like that I'm calling you out on the fact that you're NOT "done with the show" then I can't help that.

Thanks harv - you and onaonxm must live very well in your shell.

you are quite the conversationalists. If we disagree with you - well then we are wrong and shouldnt post.

You know, he was just pointing out that all you've been doing is making threats that you won't stop watching the show since season one and have been posting things like this for months.

All people are saying is if you don't like the show, good for your. We really don't care too much about your reasons though.

No one is afraid of your opinion, however much you would like to think so. You are obviously also interested in the show as you continue to talk about it with others after you say you will never watch it again, whats up with that?

Dangerdork - cant wait to hear what you have to say.

I ask one question. Hurley knows the numbers and their significance. He won the lottery with them. He made a quest before getting on the plane to find out their significance.

Then he sees them on the hatch. Then he sees them entered in to the computer. Being that you are trying to survive TOGETHER on an island - isnt this information something you would share?

Being told that you're crazy for many years, and being put in a mental hospital would make you second guess yourself most likely. He already threw a mini fit about the 'bad' numbers when the rest of them were trying to blow open the hatch. I'm guessing that he just doesn't want everyone to think he is crazy.. and I think that he will eventually tell everyone his story.

As for Hurley, I believe that he thinks the numbers are so dangerous that they should be known to as few people as possible. I seriously thought he was going to do something that prevented them from entering the numbers into the computer (like smash it or something), thereby causing a catastrophe and the title of next week's episode! Good to see it didn't go down like that.

*Edit*

Yeah, and the whole "everyone will think I'm crazy" thing... he DID spend some time in a mental institution, and that certainly doesn't help his case either. See what happened when he told Jack? Everyone's just gonna focus on the mental institution thing!

Thx onaonxm

Very insightful. My brain is full with your wisdom.

I don't completely agree with this poster's negative opinion, but I support his right to express it.

Alius - also thanks for your insight. It is incredibly insightful. I have never felt so full of insight.

What about Hurley?

As he has said before, he doesn't want to appear crazy to the rest of the group. The only person who has ever agreed that he might be right was Rousseau and look at how the survivors view her.

You know, he was just pointing out that all you've been doing is making threats that you won't stop watching the show since season one and have been posting things like this for months.

All people are saying is if you don't like the show, good for your. We really don't care too much about your reasons though.

No one is afraid of your opinion, however much you would like to think so. You are obviously also interested in the show as you continue to talk about it with others after you say you will never watch it again, whats up with that?

Yeah, enough with your negative crap. People will, eventually grow tired of it.

I'm So So So So So sick of posts like these.

As for Hurley, I believe that he thinks the numbers are so dangerous that they should be known to as few people as possible. I seriously thought he was going to do something that prevented them from entering the numbers into the computer (like smash it or something), thereby causing a catastrophe and the title of next week's episode! Good to see it didn't go down like that.

That is also a little frustrating. Watching Hurley try to stop things is like watching the coyote trying to catch the road runner. Always close but never enough.

He could have dove on that computer and made it a pancake if he wanted to - but just did enough to not do anything.

I'm So So So So So sick of posts like these.


Contos - heres a suggestion - DONT DONT DONT DONT DONT read them

You will be happier

I tried. I really tried to give this show a break. But it has jumped the shark.

We are in a hatch on an island and we find a guy with computers and washer dryers. We act totally normal. Wouldnt you be out of your mind? Wouldnt you be unable to function?

And then there is Hurley, jack, locke, kate, and sayid in the room. Hurley hasnt told anyone that the numbers he won the lottery with are on the hatch. He doesnt when they are all together and typing them in to the computer. They have a gun to Desmond at first- then just let him go away. He cant answer anything? Jack knows he has met desmond before but that is not paramount on his mind - he is not incredulous at this fact and doesnt tell anyone. Sayid fixes a computer without any explanation. They argue about doing the numbers in the computer when they could just do them and have 108 minutes to discuss it afterward.

And on and on and on and on. Its like a bad cartoon where the audience sees something right behind a character but everytime the character turns around it is gone.

THIS IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD BEHAVE. IT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD COMMUNICATE.

These people are supposed to be smart but yet we are subjected to them acting like morons continuously.

Sorry, im done with this show.

I guess a huge point of the show is to know the reasoning behind the actions some of the Lostaways make. The point of this episode was allowing Jack to finally accept that some things are beyond his mental reasoning.

Its not neccessarily about what YOU would do persay, but what the people on the island is going to do.

"Hurley hasnt told anyone that the numbers he won the lottery with are on the hatch."
Hes hesitant to reveal his lottery winnings. His time will come.

"They have a gun to Desmond at first- then just let him go away"
I suppose the freakout of the computer and what to even do was to much for them...of course it didnt stop Jack from following him.


"Jack knows he has met desmond before but that is not paramount on his mind - he is not incredulous at this fact and doesnt tell anyone"
But thats why he reacts the way he does. He cant let himself accept it. Running into someone he randomly met 4 years previously in a hatch in the middle of nowhere was mind boggling. Thats why he wanted Desmond to admit there was nothing behind the hatch. Something he could wrap his mind around.

"Sayid fixes a computer without any explanation."
This was brought up you know. Locke goes to tell him and Sayid says they will talk about it afterwards. All Sayid needs to know is that people he has grown to trust need him to fix it. Not to mention he is military bred which means act act act asap.

"They argue about doing the numbers in the computer when they could just do them and have 108 minutes to discuss it afterward."
But its not that easy when they dont really know what it does. For all they know not putting the numbers in somehow allows them to escape. Jack has to work out his issues, which mean believing in something that is totally out of this world. Locke knows Jack needed to put it in, or else he would have mentally distanced himself from the whole situation.

The writers do everything for a reason, if not to add to the growth of one individual character.

Vansack, I don't have an opinion at the moment on whether or not the characters' reactions were totally realistic because it's late and I'm exhausted, and I'm in no way ready to give up on the show, but I agree with you on one thing. It makes no sense to me that people don't wish to allow other fans to engage in discussions that consist of topics other than positive and glowing commentary. We are not all exactly the same, which I would think would be obvious, and we like to discuss different things, so I have no idea why someone would feel a need to comment on this thread simply to berate you for your opinion. Seems totally counterintuitive to me, but hey -- whatever.

Cheers.

He could have dove on that computer and made it a pancake if he wanted to - but just did enough to not do anything.
See now that would have been out of character....and lazy writing to boot. :)

I liked the comparison to wily coyote trying to get the roadrunner...

i agree with both sides. i think you're overreacting a bit, but i do grow tired with loyalists who can't see a single fault in the show.

it's the best show on tv, but this season has been really iffy so far.


There are posts about continuity in this season, problems with it.

This epi frustrated you and you wanted to vent about it, and few tolerate that.
But there are a few who will; and will validate your strong feelings about
a show that draws strong feelings.

Sorry to be negative.

Somebody pass the KoolAid.

I guess its taboo to discuss anything except how awesome Sawyer is or how hot Jack is - but I thought some would.

Sorry to be a black rock to your white rock. But I am science and you are faith. I have no faith in the writers and you do. Im just looking for those of science to have a rational discussion with so if your feelings are hurt because I said a meany about the show then Im sorry - have a cookie and go to bed.

vanzack

I was also very annoyed by tonights episode... but I don't think to the point where I'm going to stop watching the show. I don't watch very much TV anyway besides sports.

The only character who I thought acted from what in my opinion made sense was Jack. He was the only one that wanted answers....Locke was giving up crap and it showed, Jack was just looking so frustrated.

But Desmond, I mean, really, I don't understand what's so difficult about saying he recognized him. He was brought to tears because he remembered him, and the 'miracle' that happened to his wife. Was it because it brought back memories of his wife?

I hope he didn''t let Desmond just run off without a trace. That would be like killing Ethan off without getting explanations all over again.

Great answer Jenn and Thanks.

But according to a former writer in rolling Stone your assumption that the writers do everything for a reason is not true. He states there is tons of backwriting and that there is no direction.

Im not saying that is gospel but interesting none the less.

Thanks again

Contos - heres a suggestion - DONT DONT DONT DONT DONT read them

You will be happier

I just don't understand the purpose of threatening to never watch the show ever again,
"I'm done with this show." multiple times, then continuing to watch the show, then posting threats again, etc. It's a vicious cycle I tell ya! I understand the frustration, having the characters sometimes or often (cough Jack) not acting as they would in real life but either stick with it or quit!

*This is a friendly message* - it's sometimes hard to tell without hearing tone of voice.

Its not so much that I want answers.

Its that I want an intelligent show with any answers.

The characters are not intelligent and do not behave according to their own personas - and this is lazy writing.

The problem is not that the characters are not intelligent it's that you're not understanding why the characters react the way they do so you don't agree with it.
Hurley would NOT tell the others that he won the lottery with those numbers because (as it's been shown repeatedly) he has issues with people thinking that he is crazy and the one time he Does give in and tell one of them Jack doesn't see anything past the "mental institution" so no his character would Not continue to tell people so they would think he was insane. He's had one person believe him (Danielle) and that one is all he's willing to risk... especially after the Jack thing.
And as for Jack not getting answers from Desmond... he doesn't WANT answers from Desmond because he already "knows" what's going on and that's that Desmond is being experimented on by someone and is insane for just blindly following without asking more questions. Would Another person try to demand answers? Certainly, but Jack has issues with any type of faith (as it's been shown time after time) so he already knows all that he needs to know about Desmond.
Would I share the numbers if I was Hurley? Yes, but I don't have issues with being perceived as crazy like he does. Would I question Desmond a lot more if I was Jack? Certainly because I don't have issues with faith the way that he does. It wouldn't be true to their Specific Characters if they just reacted the way anyone else would.

Vanzack,

I completely agree that someone that doesn't share the same opinion as me has as much right as I have to post my enjoyment of this episode. You missed the point of my post entirely. You're one of those people that has to argue with anything and everything just for the sake of having an argument with someone. The point of my post was that you've been making these threats of no longer watching this show since last season when you weren't pleased with some of the episodes. You threatened to leave then... but wait.. you're still here! Strange how that works. You've said you're done. What better way to start than leaving now and never looking back? Stop arguing with people for the sake of arguing, and put your money where your mouth is.

Adios, and watch out for that door...

-Harv-

The problem is not that the characters are not intelligent it's that you're not understanding why the characters react the way they do so you don't agree with it.
Hurley would NOT tell the others that he won the lottery with those numbers because (as it's been shown repeatedly) he has issues with people thinking that he is crazy and the one time he Does give in and tell one of them Jack doesn't see anything past the "mental institution" so no his character would Not continue to tell people so they would think he was insane. He's had one person believe him (Danielle) and that one is all he's willing to risk... especially after the Jack thing.
And as for Jack not getting answers from Desmond... he doesn't WANT answers from Desmond because he already "knows" what's going on and that's that Desmond is being experimented on by someone and is insane for just blindly following without asking more questions. Would Another person try to demand answers? Certainly, but Jack has issues with any type of faith (as it's been shown time after time) so he already knows all that he needs to know about Desmond.
Would I share the numbers if I was Hurley? Yes, but I don't have issues with being perceived as crazy like he does. Would I question Desmond a lot more if I was Jack? Certainly because I don't have issues with faith the way that he does. It wouldn't be true to their Specific Characters if they just reacted the way anyone else would.

Great explanation. Love it. I still wouldn't have let Desmond go regardless if I think he's an idiot for beliving a button will save the world.

EXCELLENT. That is what I am looking for. I can accept this, but being that he is so sleep deprived and at the end of his rope - I would think he would react by just holding a gun to desmond and demanding answers. He never asked the pivitol question "HOW THE HELL ARE WE HERE TOGETHER!!!???"Besides being emotionally torn about the whole thing, he DID ask Desmond a bunch of questions. Mostly about the island, but it might have been his only chance to find out what's really going on. But after the story Desmond tells him about how he got there, even though Jack doesn't believe it initially, did it ever occur to you that Jack figures Desmond doesn't know how the hell they both ended up there either?

If Jack was willing to chalk up Hurley's story about the numbers winning him the lottery AND being on the hatch as a "coincidence", then he can chalk up meeting a guy he saw a few years ago as a coincidence too.

But according to a former writer in rolling Stone your assumption that the writers do everything for a reason is not true. He states there is tons of backwriting and that there is no direction.

Im not saying that is gospel but interesting none the less.Then you need to track down Javi's response to it. He's since deleted it from his blog, but it's floating around somewhere. Javi basically blows away everything Fury claimed about the show.

vanzack

I was also very annoyed by tonights episode... but I don't think to the point where I'm going to stop watching the show. I don't watch very much TV anyway besides sports.

The only character who I thought acted from what in my opinion made sense was Jack. He was the only one that wanted answers....Locke was giving up crap and it showed, Jack was just looking so frustrated.

But Desmond, I mean, really, I don't understand what's so difficult about saying he recognized him. He was brought to tears because he remembered him, and the 'miracle' that happened to his wife. Was it because it brought back memories of his wife?

I hope he didn''t let Desmond just run off without a trace. That would be like killing Ethan off without getting explanations all over again.

My thoughts EXACTLY.

You would think that they would have learned from killing ethan that anything they could learn from anyone could be useful.

AND HERE IS A GUY WHO HAS BEEN THERE FOR YEARS IN A HATCH WITH LOTS OF QUESTIONS.

"Hey desmond, who provides your food?" "Hey desmond - how do you get rid of garbage / waste?" "Hey desmond - have you ever seen anyone else on the island?" "Hey desmond - we saw a polar bear - tell us more about that?" "Hey desmond - you inject yourself with crap - tell us about that?" "hey desmond - wheres the electricity coming from?"

I mean come on. They just let him run away??????

ok looky here vanzack. Your basing you opinion on the show on what you THINK SHOULD be correct. your basing your argument that the show is dead to you knwo based on your own interests, prejudices, and preferences. First of all, its what you want the show to be like and quite frankly its not what you want it to be like. All the things you said about how the characters would act, is how YOU would act, not how the actual characters would act. I'm gonna say that your wrong here mate. If you can't accept the fact that the show isn't what you want it to be, just skippy out of here mate.

Sorry to be a black rock to your white rock. But I am science and you are faith. I have no faith in the writers and you do. Im just looking for those of science to have a rational discussion with so if your feelings are hurt because I said a meany about the show then Im sorry - have a cookie and go to bed.
See now that's the problem...you just want to stir the pot. There are tons of people just like you..with that same character nature. They aren't happy unless people are paying attention to them and berating them.

I can see flaws with shows that I truly enjoy. For instance, I truly enjoyed Alias, but after the season premiere last week I don't think I will ever watch it again unless I feel the direction of the show has been changed and becomes true to the earlier seasons.

Your motivation has nothing to do with science and is purely ego driven. The points you have made have been discussed logically and proven to be well thought out plot and character progressions but you continue hoping that you will incite more wrath and furious discussion all directed at you.

Enjoy your cookie and sleep well. I hope that you find something that you can enjoy and excel at so that you can focus your abilities for your own benefit. Focusing all your energy on amassing hatred upon yourself is impressive, but what do you really get out of it.

IMO, this was a great episode. And here's why.

In this episode, our two, seemingly, leaders are tested and, I think, neither passed the test. That, to me, was what I enjoyed about this episode.

For instance, let's go back to what Locke and Jack have labeled themselves: Jack is a man of science and Locke is a man of faith. However, Locke is *dead set* on pushing that execute button. But, Jack - Jack has *faith* that not pushing the button will warrant no response. So, in this episode, it was Jack that was the man of faith and Locke that was the man of science.

I think this is - if all goes right - going to play heavily into this season.

And there was obviously something unspoken about Sarah in the moment between Desmond and Jack.

The way I see it, you have - what - four, five people who have been living on an island without any real similarities to the civilization they know. And suddenly, they're thrown a bit of what they had. It's a shock. And in very dire situations, people usually act on instinct during these situations until they are out said situation. That's when the realization creeps in. I can compare one instance with my own life being when I was in a car when a tornado touched down. My mother, in the car with me, said that I just looked at it, turned the car around, hit the accelerator and drove in the opposite direction. She said I did this as if it were an everyday occurance. And honestly? I can only remember the moment before and after. That more than explained, at least to me, their reaction to their surroundings inside the hatch.

My thoughts EXACTLY.

You would think that they would have learned from killing ethan that anything they could learn from anyone could be useful.

AND HERE IS A GUY WHO HAS BEEN THERE FOR YEARS IN A HATCH WITH LOTS OF QUESTIONS.

"Hey desmond, who provides your food?" "Hey desmond - how do you get rid of garbage / waste?" "Hey desmond - have you ever seen anyone else on the island?" "Hey desmond - we saw a polar bear - tell us more about that?" "Hey desmond - you inject yourself with crap - tell us about that?" "hey desmond - wheres the electricity coming from?"

I mean come on. They just let him run away??????

This is true. I was oh so frustrated that Jack or any of them did not hold a gun to his head and force him to answer these questions. Or at least, that Jack didn't even warn him about the Others on the island, just in case he wasn't aware of their presence. Other than that, I enjoyed today's episode very much.

Vanzack,

I completely agree that someone that doesn't share the same opinion as me has as much right as I have to post my enjoyment of this episode. You missed the point of my post entirely. You're one of those people that has to argue with anything and everything just for the sake of having an argument with someone. The point of my post was that you've been making these threats of no longer watching this show since last season when you weren't pleased with some of the episodes. You threatened to leave then... but wait.. you're still here! Strange how that works. You've said you're done. What better way to start than leaving now and never looking back? Stop arguing with people for the sake of arguing, and put your money where your mouth is.

Adios, and watch out for that door...

-Harv-

Sorry pal - but im not arguing anything. Not one thing.

And I wrote one thread last year. ONE!!

Thanks for letting me know that you are the sherriff around here but Im choosing to take my chances.

Sorry pal - but im not arguing anything. Not one thing.

And I wrote one thread last year. ONE!!

Thanks for letting me know that you are the sherriff around here but Im choosing to take my chances.

why do you bother responding?

Thx amber -

and those that do give good explanations for jack not pressing Desmond - wouldnt one of the others want to know:

"Hey desmond, who provides your food?" "Hey desmond - how do you get rid of garbage / waste?" "Hey desmond - have you ever seen anyone else on the island?" "Hey desmond - we saw a polar bear - tell us more about that?" "Hey desmond - you inject yourself with crap - tell us about that?" "hey desmond - wheres the electricity coming from?"

Jack wasnt the only one there. Kate could have manhandled Desmond like a schoolboy. Wouldnt anyone want to know these things?

I think they were more concerned about the numbers that were counting down, and getting the computer fixed so it wouldn't count down. It wasn't exactly time for show and tell, much as we all would have liked it to be!

Wouldnt anyone want to know these things?

In one episode? No. :smile:

The fact that the group just let Desmond leave when they had

1. No reason to let him go
2. Had the power to make him stay.
3. Had a HUGE interest in making him stay

Leaves me uneasy. Anyone care to comment? I just think you would see Jack or Locke or Kate say with a gun "you arent going anywhere until we get this computer fixed and we can sit down and talk" and make him sit there until everything was fixed.

Then have an interrogation.

It is totally illogical that they watched him get supplies and walk out the door.

"Hey desmond, who provides your food?" "Hey desmond - how do you get rid of garbage / waste?" "Hey desmond - have you ever seen anyone else on the island?" "Hey desmond - we saw a polar bear - tell us more about that?" "Hey desmond - you inject yourself with crap - tell us about that?" "hey desmond - wheres the electricity coming from?"
He already explained that he happened upon the island and was immediately brought into the hatch and convinced to stay there, sealed in and never leaving in all the time he's been there because he has to put in the code every hour and a half, and thinks the rest of the island is diseased.

If this story is true, did you really want a scene where Desmond gave the following answers?
"I don't know"
"I have a garbage disposal"
"No, just Kelvin"
"I don't know"
"They're just some vitamins"
"I don't know"

...because those are probably the only answers you'd get, making a scene like that needless. Besides, Jack asked him plenty of things. The film did explain a few things too, that a company called Dharma built the hatch as a research lab. With a full pantry of jars with Dharma logos on it, electricity, and running water, you can pretty much assume Dharma is responsible for all of that, so why even ask?

And as for letting him go instead of holding him at gunpoint, Jack's not exactly the type to take hostages. He already got enough flak for that when he and Sayid interrogated Sawyer.

Vanzack, I think more people would be open to discussion if you didn't end your post with, "I'm done with this show." Why would anyone engage in discussion/debate with someone who states they're no longer watching the show?

You set the "rules" for the thread and the posters are merely responding.

As far as the episode, I think you've received quite a few responses as to why this episode does show the characters acting consistently considering the situation they're in.

"Hey desmond, who provides your food?"

--The Hanso Foundation's Dharma Initiative. as answered in the film.

"Hey desmond - how do you get rid of garbage / waste?"

--Good question, I guess it never crossed their minds.

"Hey desmond - have you ever seen anyone else on the island?"

--He was dragged into the shelter right when he arrived like he told Jack.

"Hey desmond - we saw a polar bear - tell us more about that?"

-Part of the Hanso Foundations original project as detailed in the orientation film.

"Hey desmond - you inject yourself with crap - tell us about that?"

-No one saw him inject himself with anything let alone crap, but that would explain what happens to his waste.

"hey desmond - wheres the electricity coming from?"

-The habitat was created by the Hanso Foundation, who provided for the living conditions. Locke grilled him on the lighting in the second episode
.
Jack wasnt the only one there. Kate could have manhandled Desmond like a schoolboy. Wouldnt anyone want to know these things?"

Desmond was busy with trying to fix the computer and Kate volunteered to go get Sayid to help. The primary concern was fixing the computer to avoid the impending whatever/doom.

Vanzack, I think more people would be open to discussion if you didn't end your post with, "I'm done with this show." Why would anyone engage in discussion/debate with someone who states they're no longer watching the show?

You set the "rules" for the thread and the posters are merely responding.

As far as the episode, I think you've received quite a few responses as to why this episode does show the characters acting consistently considering the situation they're in.

Note taken.

I wish I could retract.

"Hey desmond, who provides your food?"

--The Hanso Foundation's Dharma Initiative. as answered in the film.

"Hey desmond - how do you get rid of garbage / waste?"

--Good question, I guess it never crossed their minds.

"Hey desmond - have you ever seen anyone else on the island?"

--He was dragged into the shelter right when he arrived like he told Jack.

"Hey desmond - we saw a polar bear - tell us more about that?"

-Part of the Hanso Foundations original project as detailed in the orientation film.

"Hey desmond - you inject yourself with crap - tell us about that?"

-No one saw him inject himself with anything let alone crap, but that would explain what happens to his waste.

"hey desmond - wheres the electricity coming from?"

-The habitat was created by the Hanso Foundation, who provided for the living conditions. Locke grilled him on the lighting in the second episode
.
Jack wasnt the only one there. Kate could have manhandled Desmond like a schoolboy. Wouldnt anyone want to know these things?"

Desmond was busy with trying to fix the computer and Kate volunteered to go get Sayid to help. The primary concern was fixing the computer to avoid the impending whatever/doom.

I have to respectfully disagree. There is so much more. He has a front door. Wouldnt you want to know 3 years of experience? I think writing all of that intelligence off is just not consistent with people who are clueless in their surroundings.

The fact that the group just let Desmond leave when they had

1. No reason to let him go
2. Had the power to make him stay.
3. Had a HUGE interest in making him stay

Leaves me uneasy. Anyone care to comment? I just think you would see Jack or Locke or Kate say with a gun "you arent going anywhere until we get this computer fixed and we can sit down and talk" and make him sit there until everything was fixed.

Then have an interrogation.

It is totally illogical that they watched him get supplies and walk out the door.

They panicked. Plus no one is helping Jack.

"hey desmond - wheres the electricity coming from?"

I think everyone, including myself, assumed that the hatch was outfitted with power generators that were probably powered by god knows what. I have no idea about electro magneticism so I don't know if that could handle power generators or not.

Desmond didn't seem to have too many answers himself. He had been, IMO, conned into believe that he had to stay in this hatch. In 2x02, he seemed genuinely surprised to find out that anyone was living outside the hatch.

I know I'm going to be ordering my copy of The Third Policeman, though!

I wouldn't be asking questions about how he gets rid of his garbage/waste.

I would want to know what he's saving the world from or whatever by pushing the button, and how Calvin/Kelvin died.

When he's running, I would be shouting, "Where the hell are you going?"
and he would reply:
"Brotha, I'm going to the other stations on this island so I can push more buttons and be crazy outta my mind! I'll race ya!"

everybodyhateshugo, even more good points.

I think what's frustrating about a show like tonight's is that the people aren't reacting the way you would react (or how you want the characters to react.) And, when they don't act the way you want them too; ie: asking Desmond more questions, not letting him flee the hatch, etc., you get frustrated.

Sometimes it really is the simplest answers; they were concerned with getting the computer fixed. Oh, and while Desmond did flee, Jack did go after him.

I'm not a Loyalist but You have to be tripping not to like or to be done with this show, Instead of trying to figure out things or act like you know the study of human behavior on an island in the middle of know where, why not just watch and enjoy and appreciate the show compared to some of the other crap that's on TV, open your mind to imagination, possiblity and creativity if your able

I have to respectfully disagree. There is so much more. He has a front door. Wouldnt you want to know 3 years of experience? I think writing all of that intelligence off is just not consistent with people who are clueless in their surroundings.
That is true, but they didn't have the luxury of time to sit back and deliberate on what intelligence they could gather from this guy. They were concerned with fixing the computer and stopping the countdown. One of the hindrances was that Jack and Locke were in conflict over what they wanted to do. Jack left Locke by himself, unarmed, with Desmond. Locke was trying to figure things out...Desmond got frustrated and scared and got the hell out of there.

Desmond didn't have that much information to give them. He was pretty much in the dark about everything except what was presented in the film...oh and he knows how to use that cool mirror device which I am sure Sayid will easily figure out how to use it if needed. He wasn't sure about the whole thing, he admitted that he doubted the whole business on a daily basis, but the fact that the fillings in his mouth hurt by the magnetic wall meant that at least some of what the film said was true.

Not to mention Desmond's masterful dart playing skills which will come in handy when they meet up with the Others. lol. From the description his life was sleep..key in the code..., relax, key in the code...sleep, wake up key in the code...work out...key in the code sleep. Not a lot of valuable experience there.

But really, three years of experience of what? Pushing a button? Desmond had nothing to offer beyond the film he told them to watch.

It's entirely possible that this may be addressed in future episodes too. Charlie might say, Why did Desmond flee? Why did you let him go? Etc.

I'm not a Loyalist but You have to be tripping not to like or to be done with this show, Instead of trying to figure out things or act like you know the study of human behavior on an island in the middle of know where, why not just watch and enjoy and appreciate the show compared to some of the other crap that's on TV, open your mind to imagination, possiblity and creativity if your able

This is not in my nature. I would sincerely like it to be - but its not.

I have to respectfully disagree. There is so much more. He has a front door. Wouldnt you want to know 3 years of experience? I think writing all of that intelligence off is just not consistent with people who are clueless in their surroundings.Experience with what? This guy has to be there at all times to put in a code roughly every hour and a half. Besides screwing up your sleep schedule, it doesn't leave a whole lot of time for island excursions, especially if you've been told there's a disease outside and the world will blow up if you don't keep putting in the code.

I called it in the first episode, Desmond is just a button-pusher and doesn't really know anything other than what he's been told.

I just don't really see your logic. You make it seem like Jack's first priority is asking him how they're both on the island together, and that it's out of character for him not to ask that first. Then you wonder why he didn't ask him about whether or not he has a garbage disposal? That'd be about the last thing I'd expect Jack to ask.

But really, three years of experience of what? Pushing a button? Desmond had nothing to offer beyond the film he told them to watch.

It's entirely possible that this may be addressed in future episodes too. Charlie might say, Why did Desmond flee? Why did you let him go? Etc.

Charlie will probably ask that question and Sawyer will bring up the point that they had a gun pointed to his head why didn't they get answers. Why? It's who those characters are and that is how they go about doing things. Charlie second guesses other people's decisions, but isn't able to do anything about it and Sawyer is a hot head who acts then thinks about it later.

WOW. Im really amazed at the amount of folks on here that just cant or wont engage in an intelligent discussion if it at all threatens their like of the show.
Really incredible.

That's a whole different ballgame. When you end a post with " Sorry, im done with this show." - it is not exactly inviting discussion. In fact, "THIS IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD BEHAVE. IT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD COMMUNICATE". if they wanted to have an intelligent discussion - or any discussion at all. The majority of people here do enjoy discussing all aspects of the show - and not everyone agrees - but for someone to think that stating what was written in the original post would spark intelligent discussion -- that's just not going to start any discussion.

It really seems Kate has no clue what to believe.

And I've heard so many people say they're not watching anymore, yet next week, they're right back in front of the TV screen.

So... yeah.

Im sick of the people always complaining. Why dont you go make a TV show and have it live up to everyone's expectations. Ive said before....no matter what they end this show with...its never going to be able to compare to what people are expecting. Doesnt mean its not a great show. I mean i dont even think we've started to figure out whats really going on here....we've just got a taste.

That's a whole different ballgame. When you end a post with " Sorry, im done with this show." - it is not exactly inviting discussion. In fact, "THIS IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD BEHAVE. IT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD COMMUNICATE". if they wanted to have an intelligent discussion - or any discussion at all. The majority of people here do enjoy discussing all aspects of the show - and not everyone agrees - but for someone to think that stating what was written in the original post would spark intelligent discussion -- that's just not going to start any discussion.

This point was already made several pages ago. He says he wishes he could retract the statement "I'm done with the show".

I don't look at it as people complaining so much as people questioning the behaviors of characters; that's not unusual at all. Unfortunately, the initial post came off as complaining rather than one looking for discussion. (The original poster acknowledged this though.)

Initial posts typically set the tone and "rules" for a thread. Something to always keep in mind when beginning a topic for discussion.

I think they let Desmond go because at that point, I think they all had the hope that sayid would be there soon to fix everything, and then the numbers would get pushed. The idea that something bad would happen if the numbers weren't pushed was so strong that they stayed and did not go after him.

And I do remember Jack getting mad and making him answer some questions before he got to work on the computer. I think Desmond got tired of answering those questions, so he referred them to the video. I wish he had answered some more questions, but there was so much going on for all the characters....

While I don't share your frustration with the show I am feeling something strange. Oddly it's similar to what is going on the show. I have felt disoriented since they went down the hatch. I had gotten used to the surroundings. The island, the jungle... hell even the monster. It's like I'm feeling a little of what Jack feels. He wants to keep everything status quo. "I'm going to fix you" "we'll be all right if we stick together". Now he's faced with this thing, this "miracle" if you will, and he doesn't know what to make of it. I'm feeling the same thing. "Lost is great - I love watching them survive. I hope this never changes. Can it get any better?" Suddenly I am in this 70's furnished underground dome and I feel, frankly, lost. I do, however, have the faith that the writers know what they are doing. I think jumping the shark is a bit strong... but they shot one.

As for the characters, I can only say this (and I'm sure this is going to get long)... Jack frustrates the hell out of me. He's all action and no thought. He seems to think that pointing a gun and anything that threatens him will protect him from unhappy truths. (My one real complaint about the show is that it's gotten a little gun crazy. Way too much gun waving, not enough drama. But that could easily go away.) Jack is completely lost right now. Just as he was starting to get his bearings on the island and figure out his place, the rules all changed. Remember what we have spent the last 3 weeks pondering his character has experienced in about an hour. He's at the edge.

Locke acted completely in accordance with his character. There wasn't a single move that he made in tonight's episode that was out of character. With the exception of realizing that the bigger leap of faith would be to let the counter run out.

Kate doesn't care who's right or wrong. She just flat out doesn't get involved in Jack and Locke's deep philosophical war. What is happening right now is all that matters. I'm tied up. I want some chocolate. Oh look guns. Hit that guy. On top of that she realized that the computer getting damaged was partly her fault. Shut up and get it fixed, we'll sort the rest out later. Again, nothing out of character for her.

Sayid stated the same feeling. This computer needs to get fixed or something bad could potentially happen. Fix it and sort the rest out later. If it ain't broke, don't fix it... if it is, I can. That's always been him.

As for Hurley, as frightened as he is, he's curious. He always has been. He has little or no concern for his own well being, he just wants to know what's going on. He doesn't care what happens, he just wants to know. That's why he went after Rousseau, went to the Black Rock to get dynamite and that's why he's in the hatch. As for not talking about the numbers... others on this thread have already stated why he said nothing.

As for not questioning Desmond further... where do you start? The minute Jack walked in everyting went down and Desmond went nuts. If you walked into a building and the first thing you see is some one in a panic running for the door screaming "Get out! Get out!" Do you stop them and say "Why are you here? How do you eat?" Do you ignore their panic and continue on? Of course not. Most anybody, regardless of who they are would feel an adrenaline surge and get caught up in running.

I don't think that any of this is lazy writing. Quite the opposite. The lazier thing would be to have an hour long interrogation of Desmond and allow the audience a huge, cathartic question answering session. The better writing focuses on the character interaction (and that scene between Jack and Locke at the end was brilliant) and walk the tightrope with the ongoing mystery. The thing that made Lost so good was the characters and who they were. The monster, the hatch... those are all catalysts for finding out who they are and finding the drama. If Lost was simply about a bunch of crazy shit on an island, it wouldn't be as good as it is. I wouldn't watch something that is simply flat characters standing around explaining the huge, complex backstory of the island and its secrets. To achieve that the writers need to give only what the audience needs to further the story AND bring them back next week. If they gave it all up in the next episode, that would be lazier. Knowing what's going on and holding back while still keeping the audience in the game is harder.

At least for me it's something that I find compelling every week. There may be a mis-step here and there, I'll admit. I think it's pretty obvious that you are looking for other things in Lost and honestly I don't think the writers and producers are going to give it to you. And there's no harm in simply walking away from something that doesn't make you happy. I think most everybody feels that way here. However, coming in and announcing that you are leaving will understandably irk some of the people who are having the time of their lives. You have to at least see why some people might get upset.

Me? I'm SO not done with this show.

With the exception of realizing that the bigger leap of faith would be to let the counter run out.

That was the really interesting thing for me about this episode. In this episode, Jack became the man of faith by wanting to see what the outcome would be by not pressing the button.

It was almost as if they switched for a moment and I'm intrigued by that and wonder if it will come up again. Are they going to tango until they begin fighting the other's battle? Or will they become a perfect synergy of science and faith?

I dunno, but this episode has completely fascinated me.

Imagine for a second that you are Jack.

Wouldnt the FIRST THING YOU DO, before you could conceive of doing anything else, is say to Desmond "How the hell did I meet you 4 years ago and now we are both here?"

And would Desmond upon realizing he has met Jack before be so blase about the whole thing?

I would think that this would be a show stopper - enough to put a shotgun in your mouth and blow it off - but both characters seem fine with not asking each other or finding out.

IS THAT HOW THEY WOULD ACT??
Why would Jack ask that? Jack is still fighting against fate. He's still in denial. He's not going to suddenly ask that. That would be out of character for him. It might be what you would ask, but not Jack. And, to me, it's only odd that they've met before because of all that we've seen. In reality, it's not odd that he bumps into Desmond. After all, not much on that island has happened according to our realities. I think you're trying to force characters to react as they would in normal conditions. Their lives are helter skelter and what might be a logical reaction in downtown Chicago would not be the logical reaction in downtown LOST island.

This eppy rocked! It had a lot of punches and kicks and a lot of teasing (which I love). It's getting better and better with every episode!

And Desmond got away!! Yay! :biggrin:

That was the really interesting thing for me about this episode. In this episode, Jack became the man of faith by wanting to see what the outcome would be by not pressing the button.

It was almost as if they switched for a moment and I'm intrigued by that and wonder if it will come up again. Are they going to tango until they begin fighting the other's battle? Or will they become a perfect synergy of science and faith?

I dunno, but this episode has completely fascinated me.
I loved this part, too! I'm thinking that this would be the ideal time for Locke and Jack to try harder to compromise. With the huge battle that's going on with the rafters and those savages (ooooh, I hate all of them! AnaLucia ... look out babe 'cause Sawyer's gonna' take you out ... and it ain't gonna' be to dinner! LOL), having a little more mellowness on this side would be a good balance. I don't think we can continue with Jack and Locke batteling and the rafters batteling. That would be too much.

I think the'll be some changes made ... :biggrin:

Imagine for a second that you are Jack.

Wouldnt the FIRST THING YOU DO, before you could conceive of doing anything else, is say to Desmond "How the hell did I meet you 4 years ago and now we are both here?"

And would Desmond upon realizing he has met Jack before be so blase about the whole thing?

I would think that this would be a show stopper - enough to put a shotgun in your mouth and blow it off - but both characters seem fine with not asking each other or finding out.

IS THAT HOW THEY WOULD ACT??

It's called fiction.

I love Lost but it seems we are getting some plot holes but with so much pressure on the show there are always going to people that say it does not live up to all the hype. That is life and its perfectly normal but to come on a forum where most people love it and you say its basically rubbish people are going to jump down your troat and you have to expect that.

vanzack.... you are just taking things too seriously.....

I remember reading one of matt roush´s "ask matt"-columns and one of the poster wrote that people always want reality from their series but then who the heck would want to watch jack bauer scraping up money for gas bill.... hey, when i watch television i want to escape the reality of my life and see some fantastic shows....

...and in a island with polar bears, nuthing would suprise me.... =)

Imagine for a second that you are Jack.

Wouldnt the FIRST THING YOU DO, before you could conceive of doing anything else, is say to Desmond "How the hell did I meet you 4 years ago and now we are both here?"



Not necessarily - we don't know the rest of Jack's backstory - it was obvious that it was extremely painful for Jack to look at Desmond. He had all sorts of emotions flooding him & was having problems dealing with it. (And it was 3 years ago per Desmond).

I have to say, one of my top five beefs with movies and television shows, is that characters almost never do or say what a normal person would do in a situation where doing or saying that something would be beneficial! But, I think that's pretty much every movie or show, not just LOST.

I too was irritated that Jack didn't pursue more of a "I KNOW you!" conversation with Desmond, but I chalked it up to his equally irritating defiance to anything Locke questions him about. Pretty much everything Locke suggested, Jack did the opposite- not watching the film a second time, not putting the gun down, etc. He demanded answers from Locke, but wouldn't answer any of Locke's questions with civil answers. I'm thinking this is something to do with his relationship with his own father- acting out against Locke, when that's what he really wanted to do with his dad. Or feeling guilty about his dad, and taking it out on Locke. On the other hand, we also still know very little about what happened with Jack, his "divorce" (if that's what really ended the marriage), and his father's death. So, maybe his defiance of Locke is really more a defiance of faith or believing in something you can't see.

As far as Sayid fixing the computer with nary a question- yeah, I thought that was dumb at first. But as my husband pointed out, Sayid also knows more than we have seen him tell others. He's heard the whispers, seen the cable on the beach, he was the one that first wanted to tramp through the jungle to fix the transievers (probably butchered that spelling)- so, out of any of them, he would likely assess the situation, see others freaking out, and think it best to get the situation under control- i.e., fix the computer- then figure out what in the world was going on. Hurley and Sayid both knew that the hatch existed, just not what was down there. So, it wasn't like a "where are you taking me?!" convo was neccessary.

And I think a lot of Hurley's negligence in sharing the importance of the numbers, will play out next week. On one hand, it doesn't seem very nice or thoughtful of him to keep a potentially dangerous or "unlucky" piece of knowledge to himself. But, then again- he doesn't know or really care about these people. The only reason they are even hanging out together, is because the alternative is fending for yourself.
Which is likely how all the people on the island feel- romantic pursuits included. Stick together for safety and comfort, but it's still every man for himself if need be.

If ever a show could be given a break for the characters not divulging what seems to be beneficial info, LOST would be the show. It isn't like they're related, or even best buddies. They are only together because they have to be. I doubt that any of them feel that they owe any of the others anything- much less an open window into their past.

Besides, I'm still not convinced that anything we see is real. I still believe that all the Losties might be participants in some sort of virtual reality computer program. After all, in a game you closely guard what you know in order to advance.

Originally Posted by vanzack http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/misc/backlink.gif (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=524740#524740)
I tried. I really tried to give this show a break. But it has jumped the shark.

We are in a hatch on an island and we find a guy with computers and washer dryers. We act totally normal. Wouldnt you be out of your mind? Wouldnt you be unable to function?

And then there is Hurley, jack, locke, kate, and sayid in the room. Hurley hasnt told anyone that the numbers he won the lottery with are on the hatch. He doesnt when they are all together and typing them in to the computer. They have a gun to Desmond at first- then just let him go away. He cant answer anything? Jack knows he has met desmond before but that is not paramount on his mind - he is not incredulous at this fact and doesnt tell anyone. Sayid fixes a computer without any explanation. They argue about doing the numbers in the computer when they could just do them and have 108 minutes to discuss it afterward.

And on and on and on and on. Its like a bad cartoon where the audience sees something right behind a character but everytime the character turns around it is gone.

THIS IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD BEHAVE. IT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD COMMUNICATE.

These people are supposed to be smart but yet we are subjected to them acting like morons continuously.

Sorry, im done with this show.

I had very similar feelings. This was not up to the standard that LOST has been to date. I just got 3 people addicted to the show by watching the DVD's for the past week trying to catch up in time for last nights episode, and now I'm embarrassed. I have not given up on the show, not even close. I just hope last night was a fluke. All the points made in the previous post that I copied were very much what I was thinking about the episode. First of all, I hate the whole Hatch thing anyway, but can deal with it, but to have so much of the episode down there, and then not to have these people freaking out about all the elements mentioned is absurd! The food, the electronics, (and really, can a blown computer that's smoking be fixed with a power breaker????), the coincidence of knowing each other..... One minute they're about to kill each other, next they're having conversations about how to fix the computer? We're all gonna die? Didn't he just want to kill them a sec ago? Not enough disbelief on behalf of the characters. Not enough Island......I know next week is about Hurley, hope we get back on track ..... sorry my view is negative...hoping to change that.

(and really, can a blown computer that's smoking be fixed with a power breaker????),

Could be wrong, but I think they were looking for the power breaker so that the lights would come on, and the computer would have a power source- so that Sayid could try and fix it from there. If there is no power, you couldn't work on it in the first place. ;)

OK jet -what is a POSSIBLE - and I mean ANYTHING POSSIBLE - explanation for them behaving this way?

Just connect some of the dots for me. Please.

Let's see...you've survived a seemingly unsurvivable plane crash...you have already seen and heard many strange things for the past month and a half...now you are trying to make a plan how to evade these mysterious 'others'...you have some crusty crazy french woman haunting you...you've already been aware of some pre-crash connections between other persons on the island...

So given all that has ALREADY happened to these people, is finding a stupid hatch in the jungle that reveals a company doing experiments on the island REALLY all that 'put a shotgun in your mouth and pull the trigger' weird?

Can you say 'perspective'?

I've come to the realization that every week some people will absolutely love the episode and some people will absolutely hate the episode. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

Alius - also thanks for your insight. It is incredibly insightful. I have never felt so full of insight.

You ask for intelligent discussion and explanations, then you go and be all sarcastic?

Why?

First, Vanzac's message got lost in his delivery. The fact is, there are many questions about motivation in this episode, and it's correct to question the motivations of the characters.

As you may know from either my profile or posts I made in the get-to-know board, I'm a high school English teacher. I've shown LOST in my 11th grade English classes for the past year and a half. I do this to get students to critically evaluate modern culture for signs of literature. LOST generally has many standard literary elements, and especially characterization. We focus on this literary element in all episodes.

This week I'll be asking them to deduce why a character of their choice did or did not do something--what do they know about that character from previous episodes that helps them understand why a character behaves the way they do in this episode. So thanks all for the scattered but useful truly insightful comments on this board--it's the question my students will be addressing.

Now, my input into this argument, for what it's worth:

I'd prefer this episode have been called Leap Of Faith, because that's where it takes so many characters.

IMHO, Jack did not confront Desmond with their prior reunion and the apparent coincidence of their reunion because the memory of Sarah and its association with Desmond was so painful. Also, the character of Jack is primarily involved in safety--do no harm--and he has become so centrally focused on this that other conversations probably do not allow themselves daylight in his consciousness. Moreover, let's not forget, Jack still has his father's belief system instilled in him. As Sawyer said last season, and Jack said last night, if you beat something long enough it will begin to listen to you.

Which may make you believe that one of this show's central themes may be that this is a runaway psychological experiment.

When Jack confronts Desmond in the forest, and Desmond begins to remember their prior meeting, and Jack is holding his gun on Desmond, Jack refuses at first to join in Desmond in this conversation: "It doesn't matter." And do you recall last season in Tabula Rasa when Jack told Kate, "It doesn't matter. Three days ago we all died. Everyone gets a new start." Jack quite clearly is keeping his own past secret.

Is this so hard to believe? The creative team behind this show is great at showing us just little pieces of each character. I was just commenting yesterday to one of my classes that although we've had a lot of Jack's background, we really don't know much about HIS background. All we really know about what HE has done in his life is that his father emotionally beat him down, and he has doubts about his own competency. And that he turned his father in for incompetency. And that he was married to a woman he "cured." And that he ran into a guy in a stadium who he now sees in a subterranean chamber on a lost island in the Pacific.

All it takes is a leap of faith. There's more to Jack than we know. Like Holden Caulfield in Catcher In The Rye, we don't ever get the whole story in one lump.

If you want to flame, you won't get the intelligent discussion that will enlighten us all. This is a community of generally insightful LOST advocates. Let's keep it that way--sharing our theories and insights, rather than our anger.

Aside from the back story, I too think that this was a lazy show. Jack just turns weak knee's cause Locke aske him to push a button that he does not believe in? And Im the biggest Locke fan going...but brotha, this one was a stinker

The show last night gave me a real odd feeling...almost a "Truman Show" type experiment. The tail of the plane...they survived with seemingly no "miracles" within the group and turned into savages. The entire Desmond affair seemed Pavlovian by comparison...ring the bell and drool versus press this button or die.

Also Jack seemed to really switch his personality to one for all to all for one...he was so concerned with saving everyone all the time and once he was in that bunker..he turned into a total I'm for me type of thing when he left Locke alone. This is totally against the charector of Jack.

Why did he not pursue the Desmond connection?? Why was the pain of admitting he married Sarah so evident?? What connection does she have to all of this maddness??

Wow, DMCquickly, Thanks so much for your post. I hope to read a lot more from you.

I think the problem is some people are having a tough time transitioning for a all questions, no answers... to answers, but more questioned added type of show. Last year everything that happened brought up questions and we rarely got any answers. Now we are getting answers and those answers ask more questions. I've had a hard time believing some of the reactions that the castaways would have. Jack has bothered me the most. He seems to change his mind every 30 seconds. One minute he's pissed and holding a gun, the next hes got the gun down. I just keep reminding myself that they are in a situation that I haven't been in and under stress I haven't experienced so I really can't know.

Remember, Baileysdad.
Everything happens for a reason. :)

I agree with vanzack about the change of the character and what a person in our eyes would respond to the situation.
I also want to say that I do feel that people here at the fuselage should let other opinions out in the sunlight. Let their opinions be met with other opinions with the except of comments like "you don't belong here", "take your opinion somewhere else, poobag or "your opinion suck butt, like totally, dude".

Let's face it; even Lost is not a perfect show, even though some do think so.
It is a great show, but it does have human flaws in the writing or production process.

The behavior of the characters has struck me as odd on occasion (not just in this episode, but in others as well). But, I have never been stranded on an island, lost a brother, seen a man blown up, had my child stolen, etc. I would imagine "freaking out" is a mild way to describe my reaction.

My personal opinion regarding Jack is that his system is on overload. Within a month he has been in a plane crash, met a crazy French lady who said some weirdos are after them, some monster thing is in the woods, he's seen his dead father and then his father's empty coffin, found out someone on the plane actually met his father...the list goes on. Seeing someone on the island that he has actually met was just too much and he was in shock. I may not be right, but that was what I got out of it.

Also, in the pit, I had a gut feeling after watching Ana-Lucia's facial expressions and her probing questions that she had an agenda. Why the guys didn't see this until it was too late I'm not sure (for the sake of the story I guess).

I can completely relate to Van's frustration. I'm starting to have a nagging feeling, not because I dislike the show or where it is going, but because I have been enthralled with shows before (X-Files/Twin Peaks) and both shows just went down the toilet. I sincerely hope that this one doesn't. Overall I love the show. I think my not dissecting it as many fans do keeps me from getting to annoyed when small details are screwed up (continuity errors, etc).

As a side note, Vanzack has a right to express his opinion. Continually bashing him or responding to his insults isn't going to help the situation. It will just add fuel to the fire. We saw a similar situation last week after that episode, please don't let this evolve into a similar situation.

Great answer Jenn and Thanks.

But according to a former writer in rolling Stone your assumption that the writers do everything for a reason is not true. He states there is tons of backwriting and that there is no direction.

Im not saying that is gospel but interesting none the less.

Thanks again

I guess after next Wednesday's episode we won't see you post about how bad you think the show is since you aren't watching the show anymore?

Not saying that you not posting is gospel but it will be interesting to see if you do none the less. :biggrin:

Vanzack, actually, I clearly see your point. I'm NOT giving up on the show, but I do take it for a show.... not Reality TV... for once. Yes, I was wondering the same things you were. Realistically, if I were Jack, I'd be like... hey, wait a minute, I remember you from... but then again, despite that vague recognition, he was dealing with someone who is still pretty much a stranger WITH a gun, so perhaps the whole GUN/STRANGER thing takes precidence over the recognition thing. But again, this isn't REALITY tv, so I'll give the writers a few grains of salt.

I'm not giving up on it too, because eventually the writers DO ask the same questions that we do... and so far they've always given aswers, just not as quickly as we'd often like them to. So Vanzack... turn the channel if you want to... or just be patient like the rest of the LOST FANs.

I thought this episode provided a lot more "meat" than we usually get. A lot more explanations for things.

Of course since it is LOST the answers or insights lead to MORE questions that need to be answered.

But for example now we know who Helen was and that the girl on the phone was not Helen but a paid representation of Helen. So what happened to Helen? did she die or give up trying to keep him away from that place? (Dont want to use spoilers).

See answers lead to questions.

Writing for television is not like writing a novel. You have to keep the story flowing. If you get too bogged down in explanations the show literally..stops. I don't mean in the sense of 'don't give us too many answers too quickly', I mean as in the flow of creativity will dry up.

There is something so gut wrenching and painful about Jack's memory of Sarah..something that seeing Desmond brought it close to the surface again. I think it was there from the first and Jack was during this whole ordeal trying to suppress THAT. No questions about this or that or why not that about Desmnd and the hatch..it was something about Sarah that was trying to come to the surface that he was trying to push down all the while he was dealing with another loon on the island. It came out visibly as a conflict because internally it was a conflict. Jack was not expecting to have to deal with his innermost hurts while having at the same time to deal with the real time things going on. I honestly don't know a lot of people who can pull that off.

Now, this should have been your first post ... or at least this tone should have been in your first post.

You post all the faults you find in the episode and that you're not going to watch the show anymore and then you get upset when people come back to say they don't care? Nothing in your first post elicited any compassion or desire to sway you. By your own admission, you had already thrown in the towel. Yet you are still here. Why?

While we, the "loyalists" don't want anyone to not like LOST, we are also not going to try and turn someone around that has said, in their first post, that they're not going to watch the show anymore. Why bother? It's your mind and you had obviously made it up ... though not quite as "obviously" as you led us to believe. It's posts like yours that incite the arguments and the call to action that we loyalist will automatically do. Did you hope to have a thread of tons of people echoing your opinion? Here? On the 'Lage? Not going to happen. By saying that you're done and yet remaining to counter other posts, you only look like you are trying to cause a division in the fans. If you truly want to be swayed, educated or shown the error of your views, all one needs to do is read through the posts on the board to find why so many here believe in this show and trust the writers to know the characters better than we do.

But posting that you're done with the show and yet sticking around to express your dismay in the negative reactions is just pointless. If you're done, then be done, let go and move on.

Have a nice life, bruhtha!

I think the problem is some people are having a tough time transitioning for a all questions, no answers... to answers, but more questioned added type of show. Last year everything that happened brought up questions and we rarely got any answers. Now we are getting answers and those answers ask more questions.

No that isn't the problem. I'm pretty satisfied with the answers we're getting. Not surprises, but after a year of speculation hardly anything could be a suprise.

THIS is the problem:

I've had a hard time believing some of the reactions that the castaways would have. Jack has bothered me the most. He seems to change his mind every 30 seconds. One minute he's pissed and holding a gun, the next hes got the gun down. I just keep reminding myself that they are in a situation that I haven't been in and under stress I haven't experienced so I really can't know.

And it's not merely Jack. It's everyone (witness Sawyer and "Mike" on the raft last week). As the OP said, they don't react the way real people react. AT ALL. They react inorganically, automatically (as in: unthinking automatons), in ways needed to serve the plot. Last week S&M are lost miles out to sea, literally up the creek without a raft, being attacked by a SHARK. Jin is dead. Do they care? Do they care that they're almost certainly going to die? No, they squabble like two kids in kindergarten.

This week, Locke pulls his ridiculous power play, and Hurley, Sayid, and Kate just sit around and LET Jack and Locke argue for five minutes (LITERALLY!) about whether or not to risk the world ending. I was sick of it; why weren't they? Why didn't Sayid just press the button and say, "Okay, now you can argue for another hour and a half." At the very least, Hurley should have been shouting, "DUDE! just press the frigging button."

It's ridiculous. RIDICULOUS. It's contrived, artificial, and worst of all--BORING.

I wish I could stop hoping this show wouldn't suck...but every episode seems determined to help me along with that.

There is something so gut wrenching and painful about Jack's memory of Sarah..something that seeing Desmond brought it close to the surface again. I think it was there from the first and Jack was during this whole ordeal trying to suppress THAT. No questions about this or that or why not that about Desmnd and the hatch..it was something about Sarah that was trying to come to the surface that he was trying to push down all the while he was dealing with another loon on the island. It came out visibly as a conflict because internally it was a conflict. Jack was not expecting to have to deal with his innermost hurts while having at the same time to deal with the real time things going on. I honestly don't know a lot of people who can pull that off.

I thought the same thing. The pain in his face and his reaction makes me think Sarah died.

Writing for television is not like writing a novel. You have to keep the story flowing. If you get too bogged down in explanations the show literally..stops. I don't mean in the sense of 'don't give us too many answers too quickly', I mean as in the flow of creativity will dry up.

There is something so gut wrenching and painful about Jack's memory of Sarah..something that seeing Desmond brought it close to the surface again. I think it was there from the first and Jack was during this whole ordeal trying to suppress THAT. No questions about this or that or why not that about Desmnd and the hatch..it was something about Sarah that was trying to come to the surface that he was trying to push down all the while he was dealing with another loon on the island. It came out visibly as a conflict because internally it was a conflict. Jack was not expecting to have to deal with his innermost hurts while having at the same time to deal with the real time things going on. I honestly don't know a lot of people who can pull that off.

*claps* Nicely written!

Look, I realize that there are loyalists who cant think about anything other than how good the show is.

No problem. Dont read. But I am sharing because I know there are people who are frustrated just like me. People who feel that any good writing needs to rely on the consistency of character development and not random unexplained behavior.

If you love this show no matter what this thread is not for you.

There are other ways of writing effective fiction besides focusing on realistic character development. But in any case, I'm not prepared to concede that these characters are unrealistic. Human nature acts as a constraint of sorts, but it is a very broad constraint and within its bounds a vast diversity of personalities are possible. Given how profoundly odd the situation is, I don't see Jack's reaction to Desmond (to take an example) as absurd. It seems perfectly plausible to me that Jack would keep quiet about his earlier encounter with Desmond for fear that revealing it would seem to implicate him in the strange goings-on.

Does anyone have anything to say to the content of my message?

There have been 10 replies but nothing content oriented.
Huh? Are you reading the same thread that I am? My first post to yours was an explanation of how Jack reacted in character. Maybe you should re-read the replies.

The season 2 started ok, but quickly falls back to the problems in season 1. Booring... loong wait for nothing.

I´m also finished with this show. I rather look at Teletubbies... the weird thing is, that Teletubbies actually makes more sense.

Don´t flame! And don´t badmouth Teletubbies... or me... or anyone else for that matter. Behave ppl!

There is something so gut wrenching and painful about Jack's memory of Sarah..something that seeing Desmond brought it close to the surface again. I think it was there from the first and Jack was during this whole ordeal trying to suppress THAT. No questions about this or that or why not that about Desmnd and the hatch..it was something about Sarah that was trying to come to the surface that he was trying to push down all the while he was dealing with another loon on the island. It came out visibly as a conflict because internally it was a conflict. Jack was not expecting to have to deal with his innermost hurts while having at the same time to deal with the real time things going on. I honestly don't know a lot of people who can pull that off.
I totally agree, elf! I could just hear Jack finally blurting out ... "What happened? She died!" He had a hard time accepting faith and then, with Sarah being cured, it began to accept faith into his heart and then, [if] she dies ... all that faith has been destroyed and he becomes the bitter man we see, one not wanting to believe for fear of it being dashed from him again. His reactions were spot on!

Dangerdork - cant wait to hear what you have to say.

I ask one question. Hurley knows the numbers and their significance. He won the lottery with them. He made a quest before getting on the plane to find out their significance.

Then he sees them on the hatch. Then he sees them entered in to the computer. Being that you are trying to survive TOGETHER on an island - isnt this information something you would share?

Sure. Except when Hurley broached the lottery subject with Jack earlier, Jack treated him like a lunatic and Hurley clammed up. I think it is in keeping with Hurley character that he follow the group, keep quiet, and try to solve the mystery of the numbers on his own.

Vanzack--sorry about the undeserved flaming. Last season, I had some of the same concerns about irrational behavior that you did.

I think Desmond thought he was going to die. So running away was his longshot at survival. I think he was willing to bluff that Jack wouldn't shoot him and if he did, he's going to die anyway when the clock counts down.

Imagine for a second that you are Jack.

Wouldnt the FIRST THING YOU DO, before you could conceive of doing anything else, is say to Desmond "How the hell did I meet you 4 years ago and now we are both here?"

And would Desmond upon realizing he has met Jack before be so blase about the whole thing?

I would think that this would be a show stopper - enough to put a shotgun in your mouth and blow it off - but both characters seem fine with not asking each other or finding out.

IS THAT HOW THEY WOULD ACT??

Um, sorry to burst your bubble, but this is not a REALITY show. This is a work of fiction and the actions of the characters serve to progress the story. This entire program is based on an unrealistic premise! I mean, dude, you've been watching a show that is centered around a large group of people who have survived a catastrophic plane crash and are living on a tropical island that has a POLAR bear on it and comes complete with strange whispers, visions, bad numbers, etc. and your just NOW realizing it's just a tad on the fantastical side? I mean, NONE of it is realistic. If realism is what you're looking for, Survivor is on tonight at 8, 7 central. :smile:

I tried. I really tried to give this show a break. But it has jumped the shark.

We are in a hatch on an island and we find a guy with computers and washer dryers. We act totally normal. Wouldnt you be out of your mind? Wouldnt you be unable to function?

And then there is Hurley, jack, locke, kate, and sayid in the room. Hurley hasnt told anyone that the numbers he won the lottery with are on the hatch. He doesnt when they are all together and typing them in to the computer. They have a gun to Desmond at first- then just let him go away. He cant answer anything? Jack knows he has met desmond before but that is not paramount on his mind - he is not incredulous at this fact and doesnt tell anyone. Sayid fixes a computer without any explanation. They argue about doing the numbers in the computer when they could just do them and have 108 minutes to discuss it afterward.

And on and on and on and on. Its like a bad cartoon where the audience sees something right behind a character but everytime the character turns around it is gone.

THIS IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD BEHAVE. IT IS NOT HOW PEOPLE WOULD COMMUNICATE.

These people are supposed to be smart but yet we are subjected to them acting like morons continuously.

Sorry, im done with this show.

I have to agree about the computer. I mean it blows up and knocks out the power. All of a sudden sayid comes along and fixes it in a jiff. That was pretty silly. I think he just said something about removing the hard drive and putting in a new one. Oh ya, thats all that was needed lol

And he just happened across one? FANTASTICAL

Still love the show though

Sure. Except when Hurley broached the lottery subject with Jack earlier, Jack treated him like a lunatic and Hurley clammed up. I think it is in keeping with Hurley character that he follow the group, keep quiet, and try to solve the mystery of the numbers on his own.

Vanzack--sorry about the undeserved flaming. Last season, I had some of the same concerns about irrational behavior that you did.

I agree.

Let's see. There is a loon babbling about a the world ending if a code isn't entered.

That would be a REAL good time to pipe up..'Oh by the way guys..those numbers are bad luck!"

Jack had enough on his mind without THAT coming from someone who had just admitted he had been in a mental hospital.

I thought the same thing. The pain in his face and his reaction makes me think Sarah died.

I've thought that before, but now I'm thinking maybe she left him? Well, that's what I'm thinking for now, that's bound to change.

J.J. was on our local radio show a few weeks back and he addressed the article and the writer who said they had no direction. He said that writer was NOT asked back because he was not apart of the inner circle of ideas and direction of the plot and or plot twists and not well liked by the main writers and he is angry. He also said they have written the cliff hanger for this season and worked backward. At that point he said episode 2.9 was already written and we were all in for a major suprise. Everything he aluded to about the last two weeks have proven out in a sense.

This is what makes compelling storytelling...by going off in a direction the major fan base do not understand is a perfect way to get us all that much more enamored with what they are going to do. Did I feel empty last night? Yes...but there is a purpose this show was written this way. You don't win awards for writting to suddenly lose direction and purpose after three weeks.

Not to get off track...but did anyone else see Locke's dad in that "Orientation" film??

Not to get off track...but did anyone else see Locke's dad in that "Orientation" film??

Hum? I missed that. I was so focused on what they were saying that I missed the details.
Which is one of the (many) reasons why I was so frustrated with last night's episode.

A suggestion for this season's DVD's: include a bonus disc with the Orientation film on it.

I didn't like this epi. I'm getting tired of Lost being turned into the Jack and Locke Show. I like the characters, but enough already.

Its not so much that I want answers.

Its that I want an intelligent show with any answers.

The characters are not intelligent and do not behave according to their own personas - and this is lazy writing.

Most humans are "not intelligent" under stress and act oddly when outside of their comfort zone. Environment alters perception, which in turn alters behaviour. If they always acted the way we expected, the show would get very boring, very quickly. Besides, this isn't Reality TV, it's escapism. If I wanted intelligent answers to real questions, I would watch National Geographic.

Okay Vanzack let's get a grip here. You have every right to express you're opinion, anywhere (you don't have to go on the haters board). But are you really gonna write off the show just like that? Please say it ain't so. Anyway, I agree with you that it's completely frustrating to see character react and act differently to how we would react, and to seemingly simple/not so simple situations. But--would you entertain the idea that maybe where they're at- the island(if it is an island) is effecting them in someway, shape, or form?

Lastly, I think the show would be soo predictable if the characters did everything the audience assumed. I don't know just my thoughts.

I wanted to start a thread like this, but am very happy someone