I am a lost fan, I love the boards, the viewers who watch the show AND post theories or talks about the show seem very intelligent and articulate.

With that being said, I am completely dumbfounded. Please hear me out.
First of all, I think that Jack most likely couldn’t handle being a “savior” in the marriage with Sarah; I think perhaps her health denigrated during the marriage, and that he was unable to handle it. Hence the writers creating the scene where Jack looks down at Sarah’s ex-fiance like he is a piece of scum. Perhaps when the tables were turned and he may have had to be the one to take care of her, he couldn’t.

That is my take. If it was a simple divorce, where she thought he was great, he thought he was great, and couldn’t live up to the expectations, then I can’t see someone completely breaking down while trying to get some answers from a guy who he 2 minutes ago found in a hatch that is telling him the world will end. Even if he thought Desmond played a part in making him have faith, and that faith ruining his life by him feeling he had to marry Sarah, wouldn’t explain why he complete breaks down.

Jack seems cold and stoic at time, and he just lost it when talking to Desmond. He completely discounts anything anyone tells him (like Hurley with the numbers and Locke with the island secrets). But gets emotional over something he can’t change, while having the chance to get answers from Desmond.

Also, a sadistic company who could possibly be performing experiments on people who haven’t explicitly signed up, that is what in 2005 we call terrorism.

I know that is a word that is not liked at this point in time. But I didn’t write a storyline who if still monitoring this island, is a terrorist group. Not mind you I said STILL. Because it would be against the castaways free will. What are the writers thinking!?! Here are the definitions and some interesting tidbits... Have some intersecting tidbits of your own? Then please PM me or write them here.


And is it me, or does anyone else get the feeling that they were pokeing fun of the fanatic fans (me included) who came up with some in-depth theories? And the Hans Solo anagram, the JEDI Acronym? I am a Star Wars fan, and so I know other fans caught those references. Is it to make fun of the fans, to try to be funny, or some really weird reference to "the force" "the darkside" etc.

Terrorism: the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/

Acts of terrorism can be carried out by individuals or groups. According to some definitions, clandestine or semi-clandestine state actors may also carry out terrorist acts outside the framework of a state of war. The most common image of terrorism is that it is carried out by small and secretive cells, highly motivated to serve a particular cause. However, some acts have been committed by individuals acting alone, while others are alleged to have the backing of established states.

Cognitive science is a large field, and it contains many sub-fields. However, it should be recognized that cognitive science is not equally concerned with every topic which might bear on the nature and operation of the mind or intelligence. Social and cultural factors, emotion, consciousness, animal cognition, comparative and evolutionary approaches are frequently de-emphasized or excluded outright, often on the basis of key philosophical conflicts. Some within the cognitive science community, however, consider these to be vital topics, and advocate the importance of investigating them.
The field is highly interdisciplinary and is closely related to several other areas, including psychology (especially cognitive psychology, artificial intelligence, linguistics and psycholinguistics, philosophy (especially philosophy of mind), neuroscience, logic, robotics, anthropology and biology (including biomechanics.

The field originated in the 1950s from a number of researchers in psychology. The dominiant school of thought in psychology at that time was behaviorism which believed that mental phenomena could not be directly observed, and therefore, that they were not a suitable object for the study of behavior. Cognitive scientists, however, took on a functionalist view of the mind/brain, and thought of mental phenomena in terms of information processing.
Cognitive science has much to its credit. Among other accomplishments, it has given rise to models of human cognitive bias and risk perception, and has been influential in the development of behavioral finance part of economics. It has also given rise to a new theory of the philosophy of mathematics and many theories of artificial intelligence persuasion and coercion. It has made its presence firmly known in philosophy of language and epistemology - a modern revival of rationalism - as well as constituting a substantial wing of modern linguistics.

Cognitive science of mathematics

The cognitive science of mathematics is the study of mathematical ideas using the techniques of cognitive science. Specifically, it is the search for foundations of mathematics in human cognition.

...

... ... how do you really feel?

:)

Honestly, I think there is just WAY too much still to be learned that we can't say that we were given any solid answers to what is going on just yet. Hang in there!

Also, a sadistic company who could possibly be performing experiments on people who haven’t explicitly signed up, that is what in 2005 we call terrorism.
Terrorism?? Thats quite a stretch. Maybe thats why Sayid is on the island?
:biggrin:

All I can say is... Okay...

Terrorism?? Thats quite a stretch. Maybe thats why Sayid is on the island?
:biggrin:

I know this is nutty, but heck, I put it all on the line with my last post.

But is anyone getting a "Sawed" feeling. If you have seen that movie, the person who was actually orchestrating everything was right there in the room with the 2 people who were trying to get out. He basically was "testing" them to see how far they would go to try to save themseves.

Weird movie, but I get the feeling that "something smells rotten in the state of Denmark", the leader is among them.

I was being serious. I gave the definitions )or definitions since there seems to be many) on what a terroist does. It doesn't just mean acts of war, but acts commited by groups on others that MAY not share their views.

Sayid isn't a terrorist, he helped the gov. to take down a terrorist in his backstory. Those are kinda like fighting words to some people. Just pointing it out, not agreeing or disagreeing.

Don't be so quick to jump ship. The hatch is obvioulsy a hamster wheel, and Jack knows it, and so will Sayid, and they will get to the bottom of what is really going on. The film is a smoke screen, and I believe, a pile of lies.

This is too easy. It may be what was once happening on the island, and it may be what has spawned The Others, but this isn't the whole picture by a long shot.

Njc----------------------

But Dharma isn't committing acts that people don't agree with outright as a statement or ideology against....whatever. They're believing their work is in the name of science and the betterment of humanity. At this point, that much we know, until it's shown that Hanso is doing all this research to set-up world domination as opposed to just stretching the limits of science......so that's where I'd have to disagree with you on the use of terrorism for your definition of what's going on.

Not all people agree with stem cell research, but you wouldn't call a stem cell scientist a terrorist.

Well, if history has painted one thing about scientist. It's that they dont always do the right thing to further their experiments. This is just a sterotype of scientists. It's not factual in any way, shape, or form.

Now as to what we have happening here. I think we have a experiment gone amok. That doesnt mean the Dharma group of project Swan even knows the lostaways are on the island. Remember that Desmond crashed there too. See a reoccuring theme here. Every group on the island that we know of crashed there. Danielle's group, the lostaways, the drug runners plane, the black rock, and now Desmond. This doesnt mean that project Swan is the cause of the crashes. They may not even be aware yet of whats going on with the lostaways. They may be studying the strangeness of the island itself though, and is it the island thats causing these crashes, or the numbers.

Keep the numbers formost and front in your mind. I believe they will ultimatly be the cause of all this, and eventually we'll find out that the numbers causes the "Incident" with project swan as well.

I was being serious. I gave the definitions )or definitions since there seems to be many) on what a terroist does. It doesn't just mean acts of war, but acts commited by groups on others that MAY not share their views.

Sayid isn't a terrorist, he helped the gov. to take down a terrorist in his backstory. Those are kinda like fighting words to some people. Just pointing it out, not agreeing or disagreeing.

The Sayid thing was a joke......
A paraphrase..If you create terrorism on an island where no one is there, does anyone get scared? This could be the most inefficent terrorist act ever. Why would you want to create terror with people who cant go anywhere, can't tell anyone and who no one else knows they are being terrorized?

But Dharma isn't committing acts that people don't agree with outright as a statement or ideology against....whatever. They're believing their work is in the name of science and the betterment of humanity. At this point, that much we know, until it's shown that Hanso is doing all this research to set-up world domination as opposed to just stretching the limits of science......so that's where I'd have to disagree with you on the use of terrorism for your definition of what's going on.

Not all people agree with stem cell research, but you wouldn't call a stem cell scientist a terrorist.

My point exactly. I am not a "right-fighter" or think I am always right, because I know I am not. But the reason I put the definition down, is because people assume terroism means acts of suicide, hurting people.

You don't have to "hurt" a great deal of people to be a terrorist. What it means is to put your ideology on other people, regardless if they believe it, want to be a part of it, or disagree with it.

Of course I wouldn't call a stem cell researcher a terrorist, but if a scientist took stem cells from ANYONE that didn't give consent for their stem cells to be used (besides infant placental stem cells, because at that point, the parent has the right to consent to stem cells being harvested from the plancenta or aborted fetus), because he thought it would provide cures to some really terrible diseases, then yes he is a terrorist. Does he think he is doing the absolute right thing, yes, and he may be. But to take things or involve people that don't agree or want to be of his researcher, would make him a "terrorist". Mind you that a terrorist does not have to be a great goup, but could even be one person by definition.

Please know, I am not against abortion, informed consent, OR stem cell research. I believe those are all individual acts and I am not here to judge. I was using the example given.

But Dharma isn't committing acts that people don't agree with outright as a statement or ideology against....whatever. They're believing their work is in the name of science and the betterment of humanity. At this point, that much we know, until it's shown that Hanso is doing all this research to set-up world domination as opposed to just stretching the limits of science......so that's where I'd have to disagree with you on the use of terrorism for your definition of what's going on.

Not all people agree with stem cell research, but you wouldn't call a stem cell scientist a terrorist.

My point exactly. I am not a "right-fighter" or think I am always right, because I know I am not. But the reason I put the definition down, is because people assume terroism means acts of suicide, hurting people.

You don't have to "hurt" a great deal of people to be a terrorist. What it means is to put your ideology on other people, regardless if they believe it, want to be a part of it, or disagree with it.

Of course I wouldn't call a stem cell researcher a terrorist, but if a scientist took stem cells from ANYONE that didn't give consent for their stem cells to be used (besides infant placental stem cells, because at that point, the parent has the right to consent to stem cells being harvested from the plancenta or aborted fetus), because he thought it would provide cures to some really terrible diseases, then yes he is a terrorist. Does he think he is doing the absolute right thing, yes, and he may be. But to take things or involve people that don't agree or want to be of his researcher, would make him a "terrorist". Mind you that a terrorist does not have to be a great goup, but could even be one person by definition.

Please know, I am not against abortion, informed consent, OR stem cell research. I believe those are all individual acts and I am not here to judge. I was using the example given.

It may seem that they gave away too much in Orientation, but as far as the hatch is concerned, what have we REALLY learned? Not much, IMO. There were so many inconsistancies in Desmond's story, I came away without any theory at all.......& I
love it! It's not good writing, if someone can figure out how it's gonna end.

Good theory, it gives you something to think about. But I'm not sure if I agree 100%. The original people involved signed up for it to be a scientific experiment. No one did it against their will.

Desmond just got involved when his boat got stuck there (its odd how everything in a certain radius somehow just gets sucked into the island). He never said why he thought the world was ending. Or why he wondered if the other surviors were sick. He could just be paranoid in the situation he is in. No one forced him to do anything. The guy he met was doing it so Desmond decided to help him because the man was giving him food and shelter. Now he's just taken over now that the guy has died.

No one tells you what happens if you don't hit the button. No one knows. I do believe it is more of a psychological thing but terrorism? I just don't think that phrase fits. It's just a bunch of scientists doing experiments on the willing.

Terrorism is such a touchy subject with the public. Unless its done just right people don't react well. I really don't think they would be messing around with it too much.

Good theory, it gives you something to think about. But I'm not sure if I agree 100%. The original people involved signed up for it to be a scientific experiment. No one did it against their will.

Desmond just got involved when his boat got stuck there (its odd how everything in a certain radius somehow just gets sucked into the island). He never said why he thought the world was ending. Or why he wondered if the other surviors were sick. He could just be paranoid in the situation he is in. No one forced him to do anything. The guy he met was doing it so Desmond decided to help him because the man was giving him food and shelter. Now he's just taken over now that the guy has died.

No one tells you what happens if you don't hit the button. No one knows. I do believe it is more of a psychological thing but terrorism? I just don't think that phrase fits. It's just a bunch of scientists doing experiments on the willing.

Terrorism is such a touchy subject with the public. Unless its done just right people don't react well. I really don't think they would be messing around with it too much.

I seriously hope that the writers do create the point that this is not a terrorist act. Desmond pushed the button because he thought (realy thought) that is he didn't that something bad would happen. Hence, he abided by the "rules" of the tape, so that nothing would happen to him, I don't know if he thought or cared if something happened to anyone else.

Terrorism may not be the right word (but I personally think it is), but he abided by the rules set by a particular institute film (crazy crazy crazy), because he feared the danger of what the consequences would be. So, did he have the free will to leave? Or did he think that if he did, that the world would end and HE would die.

To abide by rules set by this institute for "learning" for fear something horrific (death) would occur if if he didn't? It was pure fear of death that kept him pushing the buttons every 108 minutes.

Do I think he would die? Nope, I don't think that a microprocessor smaller than my nano iPod could within 4 minutes self destruct. Heck, with my first computer it took five minutes to save something to a floppy disk alone. I really hope that Sayid, Hurley, and Kate show Locke and Jack that the world will not end. MAYBE the hatch will blow up, but they would have a 108 minute lead time to get away.

It may not have said it on the tape, but Desmond picked up that assumption from somewhere, that he was going to die if he didn't press the buttons, because he stated it when they shot the computer.

But bringing this aspect into it, is nutty.

I'm still unsure of whether or not to buy that Desmond was completely clueless.

An experiment, IMO, wouldn't explain the insane coincidences and connections between the passengers that put them on flight 815. Plus, again, IMO, it's way too early for any real answer to be given in the series. I, personally, believe the writers are leading us into a rabbit hole away from any real solution.

I think that you are basing your comments on pure suppositions. I saw nothing to support that what is really happening is a "big experiment" on people against their will. That may be what Jack thinks, but I don't think that is "the answer" and I don't think that we have enough evidence at this point to support that either. My impression is still that there is something about the ISLAND itself that is the answer. The hatch - experiment thing is just a study of the peculiar properties of the island, a result of others trying to discover what makes the island special... but I think that we are a long way from getting "the real answer" as to what is happening, what the island is, etc. If the fact that this whole thing were an "experiment" IS the answer, then why would they give that to us so early in the SECOND season?

That is just too easy.

I have been thinking that myself.

I think perhaps the hatch will self-destruct if they don't press the button. Why? Because those crazy people created a hatch in the middle of an island, full of supplies.

I thinkt that it would just give these people a nice cozy place to try to find help (power source and build a radio signal), so my theory is that this cozy place will self-destruct, because one of them "won't believe" (push the button).

It is too easy... you all have a good point. 3 years???