I just noticed that Dr. Marvin Candle has a fake a left arm. There seemed to be something off about him and I noticed it while watching the film in slow motion. The left arm never moves.

Reminds me of others we've seen who are missing limbs, Kate's farmer for example.

Jack almost amputates Boone's leg, in the pilot a survivor loses his leg, Locke has leg problems.

Is there anything to these things, any connections?

Dr. Marvin Candle reminded me of someone and now I know that it is Bob Dole, A tall, older man with a fake left arm.

Anxious to hear if anyone has any ideas regarding the Dr.'s missing arm and what it could mean to the project...former military?

Didn't one of Rousseau's colleagues lose an arm on the island?

Bob Dole doesn't have a fake arm. He has nerve damage or something and has very little use of his left arm. That's why he always hold a pen or something in his left hand. It helps give the illusion of him doing something with the arm.

Anyway, that said ... that is a very interesting observation. :)

And czardingus -- yes! I'd forgotten about that. On the way to the Black Rock she said (I forget the name) lost his arm near or in, the Dark Territory.

Also Sam Toomey's wife was missing a leg.

I'll tell you what's bugging me about Dr. Marvin Candle. His real name is Marvin Candle. Who is Marvin Candle? Is he really a doctor, and if he is, what kind of doctor. Also, did anyone notice his nametag? It has the image of the Caduceus of Mercury on it, a medical symbol. Also take a look at the link below.

http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html

I was especially interested in the parts about Moses and the Son of Man. Can anyone say lift it up?

www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=47169&fullsize=1 (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=47169&fullsize=1)


He hasn't got an artificial arm

Look at his eyes, the left one is drooping and unfocused

He's probably partially paralysed down his left hand side, like a stroke victim

He hasn't got an artificial arm

Look at his eyes, the left one is drooping and unfocused

He's probably partially paralysed down his left hand side, like a stroke victim

If that's the case, it is more like Bob Dole, and Locke and Sara (before Jack saved her...) Good point!

Also Sam Toomey's wife was missing a leg.

I'll tell you what's bugging me about Dr. Marvin Candle. His real name is Marvin Candle. Who is Marvin Candle? Is he really a doctor, and if he is, what kind of doctor. Also, did anyone notice his nametag? It has the image of the Caduceus of Mercury on it, a medical symbol. Also take a look at the link below.

http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html

I was especially interested in the parts about Moses and the Son of Man. Can anyone say lift it up?

That's right, I had forgotten about Sam's wife.

It's interesting that the symbol caduceus is used by commercial and military medical groups, (and American)...

I'm trying to decide what I think the signficance of all of this is, (whether or not it is a fake arm) the limbs that do not work. There is an interesting discussion by an individual from the amputee chat letter (http://www.mycottage.com/amputee/vol2_6.htm)discussing the idea of those with missing or artificial limbs being portrayed as evil.

I don't think that is what is going on here, I think it is some sort of symbolism that is more unique to the Lost mythology. What do these characters have in common besides problems with their limbs?

Woah. Shades of Twin Peaks here. For anyone who hasn't seen it, the main antagonist is this Demon named Bob. Bob once had a partner(I can't remember his name.) He eventually becomes good, but when he does he cuts of his arm. (I think it was the left one, but haven't seen the show in a while). The arm then becomes that freaky little midget who speaks backwards. In Twin Peaks symbolism, Left(i think) was associated with evil, Bob like to possess people and the people who were about to become possessed, there left hand and arm would begin to shake. So, we pretty much know the Lost writers are using a similar Left/Right, Good/Evil dicotomy and maybe the are showing in much the same way it was shown on TP, with amputated/fake/paralized Limbs.

Just some trivia (I'm not being trivial) Bob Dole's right arm is the crippled one. He was straifed with Nazi machine gun fire saving a fellow soldier. He puts the pen in his right hand so when people who do not know meet him...they will not attempt to shake it. I had the pleasure of working in congress in another life and met him and he explained that to me. I thought that was pretty amazing.

Just some trivia (I'm not being trivial) Bob Dole's right arm is the crippled one. He was straifed with Nazi machine gun fire saving a fellow soldier. He puts the pen in his right hand so when people who do not know meet him...they will not attempt to shake it. I had the pleasure of working in congress in another life and met him and he explained that to me. I thought that was pretty amazing.

Thank you for the clarification. I really like Bob Dole and hope that the original post didn't seem like it was mocking him because Dr. Candle really does remind me of him and it's an interesting military connection (at least in my mind). I remember being allowed to skip school during the 1996 campaign to go and see him and I think he was a great statesmen and rarely receives the credit he deserves for being so.

Thank you for the clarification. I really like Bob Dole and hope that the original post didn't seem like it was mocking him because Dr. Candle really does remind me of him and it's an interesting military connection (at least in my mind). I remember being allowed to skip school during the 1996 campaign to go and see him and I think he was a great statesmen and rarely receives the credit he deserves for being so.
Agreed. He is a true hero...he crawled out of a fox hole to save a fellow soldier and his arm was shot to such a degree it was unrecognizable...and he nearly died. I didn't think at all you were mocking at all. Thought it was such a great story I wanted to share it with my fellow Lostites...

Didn't one of Rousseau's colleagues lose an arm on the island?

Czardingus, I believe his name was Montagne, but I am horrible at french spellings, yeah, he lost his arm too.

I wonder if the missing or non functioning limbs could be tied up with the experiments. The idea of the Phantom limb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_limb)could be interesting to neurologists and psychologists.

Thought it was such a great story I wanted to share it with my fellow Lostites... Indeed and Thanks, it's good to be reminded of great stories, sort of lets you lift it up

I don't know if this is an answer, or just a cute play on words, but it just occured to me while I was posting on the Tib thread that Hanso (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html) is an "arms" dealer...

riven by a need for privacy and a deep-seated sense of humility, Alvar Hanso has released few details of his personal life to the public.

He first made his mark during the Second World War, providing munitions to various resistance movements around Europe. After the War, Hanso became the leading purveyor of high-technology armaments to NATO.

After decades of keeping the world safe through the development of sophisticated weapons systems, Hanso turned his attention to critical areas of science and technology - always searching for new ways to improve the human experience, and create a brighter future for all humanity.

Still running his vast network of companies, Hanso has set new standards for philanthropy and the support of pure scientific research for the betterment of the entire race.

I don't know if this is an answer, or just a cute play on words, but it just occured to me while I was posting on the Tib thread that Hanso (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html) is an "arms" dealer...

I think you may have something here sister. I wonder if some of the eugenics experiments and experimentation with animals in other words, the biological experiments could have anything to do with regenerating body parts? I was thinking Arms, hands, legs? but what about kidneys?

The paths this show can take are mind numbing...

That is a amazing catch. My hats off to you for seeing that. After watching the Orientation film again. Either that is a prostetic, or a totally dead arm. His left arm doesnt even move when he walks. And even if it's a little bit your arms always move when you walk.

I dont think it was a stroke though, there didnt see to be any problems whatsoever with his face or left eye. His eyes didnt move around during the film, he was always looking at the camera.

I'm wondering if what happend to him happend during the "incident". But if it did you think he would at least show different emotions while talking about it during the film.

That is a amazing catch. My hats off to you for seeing that. After watching the Orientation film again. Either that is a prostetic, or a totally dead arm. His left arm doesnt even move when he walks. And even if it's a little bit your arms always move when you walk.

I dont think it was a stroke though, there didnt see to be any problems whatsoever with his face or left eye. His eyes didnt move around during the film, he was always looking at the camera.

I'm wondering if what happend to him happend during the "incident". But if it did you think he would at least show different emotions while talking about it during the film.

Thanks, my sister is todell and usually catches everything first, so I was way excited last night when I realized something was wrong with his arm and that I had caught it before her!:redface:

I think it is a fake arm, it seemed very plastic to me but I couldn't find any screen caps... I think it must be some kind of 'combat' injury, maybe ww2 or Korea, or perhaps, the incident...also, the doctor has a very British or American sounding name, part of me wonders if he may have been the son of someone involved in some kind of Unit 731 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)experiment Which we have talked about over in the Tiberius (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=20988)thread (#2 has most of the posts but we've mentioned it again on the third one)

Another amazing thing..the book "The Third Policeman" which was shown in the bunker as well, has a main charector with a missing leg....hmmmm.

This really is an interesting thread. The 'arms' connection is great.

And don't forget about Michael's car accident - he couldn't walk for a while and I remember scenes when his leg was in a hard cast.

So I think there may be two different categories - characters with damaged limbs and those with missing limbs.

And then of course we have Locke's missing kidney.

This really is an interesting thread. The 'arms' connection is great.

And don't forget about Michael's car accident - he couldn't walk for a while and I remember scenes when his leg was in a hard cast.

This is great too, Mike was in a wheelchair and casts and by the time he was able to walk again, he'd lost his son!

So I think there may be two different categories - characters with damaged limbs and those with missing limbs.

And then of course we have Locke's missing kidney.


My sister and I were just talking about whether or not the two groups should be separated, of course that fuels the need to find screen caps of Dr. Candle's arm....

And BD, I agree, hmmm indeed.

I see these folks as separate categories:

MISSING LIMBS: Mrs. Toomey (leg - car accident), Kate's farmer (arm - unknown cause), Danielle's team member (arm - unknown cause)

DAMAGED LIMBS: Locke, Michael, Sarah (legs. Sarah and Michael were in car accidents; Locke's cause of injury still unknown)

Boone - technically just a damaged leg although Jack attempts to amputate.

Minor limb injuries: Hurley's mother (ankle injury at curb), Sawyer (stabbed arm), Jack (dislocated shoulder)

I can't tell for sure if Dr. Candle has a missing or damaged arm - anyone???

I can't tell for sure if Dr. Candle has a missing or damaged arm - anyone???

This (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=737&pos=220) was the only image I could find. In the film it really looks fake to me...

Great lists.

I see these folks as separate categories:

MISSING LIMBS: Mrs. Toomey (leg - car accident), Kate's farmer (arm - unknown cause), Danielle's team member (arm - unknown cause)

DAMAGED LIMBS: Locke, Michael, Sarah (legs. Sarah and Michael were in car accidents; Locke's cause of injury still unknown)

Boone - technically just a damaged leg although Jack attempts to amputate.

Minor limb injuries: Hurley's mother (ankle injury at curb), Sawyer (stabbed arm), Jack (dislocated shoulder)

I can't tell for sure if Dr. Candle has a missing or damaged arm - anyone???
The arm looks totally lifeless and limp and never moves when he does. This is getting interesting...

I can't tell for sure if Dr. Candle has a missing or damaged arm - anyone???
I think the moment I knew for certain that the arm was damaged in some way was at the end of the film clip. He says, "Namaste" and then holds up his right hand to make a sort of prayer motion. This is normally done with both hands by placing them flat against each other thumbs up and then bowing your head slightly (sorry for the enhanced description, but I can see it in my head and can't think of a good single word to describe it).
He should have held up both hands, but only holds up one. There would be no reason to do this UNLESS you couldn't move one of your arms.

Just found this thread after posting a similar one in the "Orientation" forum titled "Dr. Candle in filmstrip"

I had viewed a media clip on www.oceanicflight815.com (http://www.oceanicflight815.com) in which Danielle mentioned one of her team members losing an arm.

Some websites have listed the name she says as "Montand" or "Montan"
Dr. Candle's first name is "Marvin".
The one armed farmer that Kate stayed with is Ray "Mullen".

Funny how all these names sound alike. (M_______N)

I think the moment I knew for certain that the arm was damaged in some way was at the end of the film clip. He says, "Namaste" and then holds up his right hand to make a sort of prayer motion. This is normally done with both hands by placing them flat against each other thumbs up and then bowing your head slightly (sorry for the enhanced description, but I can see it in my head and can't think of a good single word to describe it).
He should have held up both hands, but only holds up one. There would be no reason to do this UNLESS you couldn't move one of your arms.

Nice catch danI08!

LostntheSouth, I wonder if there is a closer connection between the Doctor & Danielle??!?!?!

Things to ponder!

Excellent find, LostintheSouth!

Danielle did say that her expedition was an international team, didn't she?? So the man who lost his arm would not necessarily be French.

Supposedly Danielle has been on the island for only 16 years, so if Marvin Candle was her team member, than either she is lying about the time frame or the filmstrip copyright date of 1980 is a lie.

Montand is a French name.

Just found this thread after posting a similar one in the "Orientation" forum titled "Dr. Candle in filmstrip"

I had viewed a media clip on www.oceanicflight815.com (http://www.oceanicflight815.com) in which Danielle mentioned one of her team members losing an arm.

Some websites have listed the name she says as "Montand" or "Montan"
Dr. Candle's first name is "Marvin".
The one armed farmer that Kate stayed with is Ray "Mullen".

Funny how all these names sound alike. (M_______N)

Do we know what Sam Toomey's wife's name is? Does it start with an M? I guess I'll have to watch Numbers again, Oh the Humanity!:biggrin:

Do we know what Sam Toomey's wife's name is? Does it start with an M?

Yes, her name is "Martha".

If I was Michael, I would watch my arms and legs from now on. LOL!

(Well he was already in a wheelchair once)

Didn't one of Rousseau's colleagues lose an arm on the island?
Yes!

In Exodus Part I Danielle says: "The Black Rock is not far. This is where it all began where my team got infected where Montand lost his arm."

LostintheSouth - you just reminded me of another Michael/leg incident. He got gored by the boar when he went into the jungle with Kate and Locke! And he came limping back to the beach...he is having problems with his legs, isn't he?

buzmeg, thanks for clarifying that the name was Montand.

Yes, her name is "Martha".

If I was Michael, I would watch my arms and legs from now on. LOL!

(Well he was already in a wheelchair once)

This is really interesting! We have all these people with limbs that don't work or are missing and their names begin with "M"

This is a stretch, but could M=mutilated? Not the most sensitive of ideas but I just thought of Flirting with Disaster and George Segal's emphasis that the new crime in San Diego was the bump and mutilate-(sorry, I know it has nothing to do with Lost, but mutilate=FWD forever in my mind:biggrin: )

I watched the Dharma orientation film scenes again and I still can't tell if Marvin Candle has a fake arm or if it's real but paralyzed. But he does not move the arm or fingers at all, so it's not functioning, that's for sure.

And I was thinking...considering the relatively small group of main characters, doesn't it seem like there are a LOT of connections to people with missing or damaged limbs? (I have no statistics to back this up, it just seems disproportionate to me among a supposedly random cross section of plane passengers.)

This really is an interesting thread. The 'arms' connection is great.. I agree!

Are all the missing/injured limbs mentioned on the left side? I remember Sam Tooney's wife had a missing left leg, Dr. Candle's left arm is the fake/paralyzed one, When Locke's scar is shown, it is on the left side. Which leg did Michael break? Which of Boone's legs was Jack going to attempt to amputate? I can't remember. Could this be significant in any way?

goddessblue, Michael's right leg is in the cast during the hospital scenes in "Special" and I believe it was also his right leg that was attacked by the boar.

I think Boone's right leg was the damaged one, but I could be wrong about that.

Whether or not all these limbs are on the same side or not, I still think all these situations are far more than coincidence.

goddessblue, Michael's right leg is in the cast during the hospital scenes in "Special" and I believe it was also his right leg that was attacked by the boar.

I think Boone's right leg was the damaged one, but I could be wrong about that.

Whether or not all these limbs are on the same side or not, I still think all these situations are far more than coincidence.


belshep, thanks for answering my question. I also agree this is way more than coincidence. I was just trying to take it one step further if the injuries were all on the same side of the body. You could take that to a right/left brain hemisphere thing, where the right brain controls the left side, etc...ah well!

belshep, thanks for answering my question. I also agree this is way more than coincidence. I was just trying to take it one step further if the injuries were all on the same side of the body. You could take that to a right/left brain hemisphere thing, where the right brain controls the left side, etc...ah well!

I agree, the right/left brain thing would be an added twist, but it doesn't appear to be the case. But this entire limb discussion is fascinating - I'm sure we'll all be looking closely at characters' limbs in all upcoming episodes!

Maybe Dr. Candle's physical disabilities were caused by the "incident"?

cmcd: someone on TWoP noticed a similarity between Marvin (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=737&pos=201) and Hurley's doc (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=305&pos=316). Anyone?

cmcd: someone on TWoP noticed a similarity between Marvin (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=737&pos=201) and Hurley's doc (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=305&pos=316). Anyone?

Its interesting the way they shot those two scenes: The Swan Film is shot with Dr. Marvin higher than the camera and the scene with Hurley is exactly the opposite. It gives you the impression that Marvin is taller than he actually is and that Hurley's doc is taller that he appears. I know there are good cinema school reasons for these shots (looking up at someone is called a "hero" shot for example), but I will have to go back and watch NUMBERS now to see for sure.

I just watched the "Numbers" scene with the Dr...I think it's very, very possible that Hurley's doc and Dr. Candle are the same person.

However, Hurley's doc. appears to be able to move his left arm...after he brings Hurley into the room where Leonard is, he turns to leave and his left arm is bent. But in the first scene, when he greets Hurley at the front desk, we don't see his arms at all, so we can't tell if his arm was straight or bent at the time.

But that made me think of something else - I suppose it's possible that Dr. Candle had a prosthetic arm in 2004 but not in 1980. Or that whatever was wrong with his arm in the film has been cured over the years.

Some websites have listed the name she says as "Montand" or "Montan"
Dr. Candle's first name is "Marvin".
The one armed farmer that Kate stayed with is Ray "Mullen".

Funny how all these names sound alike. (M_______N)
It really sounded like Martin to me. The French pronunciation sounds like "Mah-TAN"

You know what else starts with M and ends with N is mountain. I wonder if all this is a clue about the mountain, somehow...

I just watched the "Numbers" scene with the Dr...I think it's very, very possible that Hurley's doc and Dr. Candle are the same person.

However, Hurley's doc. appears to be able to move his left arm...after he brings Hurley into the room where Leonard is, he turns to leave and his left arm is bent. But in the first scene, when he greets Hurley at the front desk, we don't see his arms at all, so we can't tell if his arm was straight or bent at the time.

But that made me think of something else - I suppose it's possible that Dr. Candle had a prosthetic arm in 2004 but not in 1980. Or that whatever was wrong with his arm in the film has been cured over the years.

Perhaps what has cured Locke has cured Dr. Candle. But that would mean that we assume his arm is parlayzed and not fake, which I'm still not sure about!:smile:

I'm not sure, but I think it might be more than just missing limbs. It was mentioned before, the connection of Hurley/Sam Toomey's wife who is missing a leg; Kate/Farmer missing an arm. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I think the sheriff that Boone was talking to had a glass eye. Also, the bad guy that was waiting for Sawyer in Sawyer's room and told him where to find the guy who cheated his family, he was missing a finger.

You know what else starts with M and ends with N is mountain. I wonder if all this is a clue about the mountain, somehow...

Actually, I always thought that Danielle said the name of her teammate who lost his arm was Montagne, which means mountain in French...

goddessblue, Michael's right leg is in the cast during the hospital scenes in "Special" and I believe it was also his right leg that was attacked by the boar.

I think Boone's right leg was the damaged one, but I could be wrong about that.

Whether or not all these limbs are on the same side or not, I still think all these situations are far more than coincidence.
It was Boone's right leg...Locke's scar is on his right eye..he got shrapnet in his right leg too. Of course Alvo Hanson was and "arms" dealer as well.

Isn't amazing what we can come up with??

What convinces me the arm is fake in the orientation video is the hand. Look at the hands when the film starts. The left hand hanging out from under the sleeve is slightly different in color. Has a wooden appearance.

What convinces me the arm is fake in the orientation video is the hand. Look at the hands when the film starts. The left hand hanging out from under the sleeve is slightly different in color. Has a wooden appearance.

After watching that scene a few more times, I think you're right, it's fake. So if it was a really bad prosthetic in 1980, he could have been upgraded to a much better one by 2004 if he is indeed Hurley's doc.

Baileysdad, thanks for verifying Boone's right leg. So we now have some missing/injured body parts on both the left and right sides - why doesn't this surprise me???

Regarding whether or not the limb is fake or paralyzed . . . I lean towards fake, and here's why:

I'm not sure how many different reasons there are for an arm to be paralyzed, but I think the most common one is a stroke. I work in a nursing home and have worked with many people who have one side effected stroke disabilities. Most of the limbs of those people are contracted or bent. Their fingers are usually curled, sometimes painfully. I'm not saying all stroke survivors have a bent limb, but I have not seen many. I think I may have seen two in 200-300 people.

In addition, the survivors I have seen that have one arm totally paralyzed have also had trouble with the leg on the same side. I have not seen ANY partially paralyzed stroke survivor walk without the use of at least a quad cane -- but most have flat out been in wheelchairs. If the arm is totally paralyzed, it's my opinion that the leg will be, too. These people usually do not have drooping faces, either. It is my understanding that it only happens during an active stroke.

Now, other possible reasons for arm paralysis, in my imagining, would be localized damage to the spinal column at the exact place where the spinal nerves serving that hand come out from. I've never seen that, but it may be out there. Trauma to the limb itself is a possiblity. Some sort of neurologic disease is not likely to effect one limb.

This is why I think it is more likely that the limb is amputated. Besides, there is already a precedent with Ray Mullen on that score. I would definately lean towards putting him in the amputation catagory.

Hoping this is useful,
Lynda

Actually, I always thought that Danielle said the name of her teammate who lost his arm was Montagne, which means mountain in French...

Just a post to speak in agreement. I thought that is what Danielle called him as well but I thought I probably didn't know what I was talking about...

What convinces me the arm is fake in the orientation video is the hand. Look at the hands when the film starts. The left hand hanging out from under the sleeve is slightly different in color. Has a wooden appearance.

And Nay85 and belshep. It was while watching the film at my sister's insistence to see the mirror image in the Hanso building, that made me notice the Dr. in the first place. I agree with you, I really think it is as fact as Ray Mullens. I think the fact that their two names in particular ending with M and N is meant to be a parallel and that we are meant to assume that Dr. Marvin's arm is not real...

so, did someone close to Marvin "use" the numbers, like Lenny, and as a result, Marvin lost his arm?

so, did someone close to Marvin "use" the numbers, like Lenny, and as a result, Marvin lost his arm?
Thats possible. I also wonder if the "incident" was where he lost it and if the numbers played a role in that. Although, I am leaning now away from the numbers having "magical" properties.
Also, my random prediction/guess of the weekJin is a twin
I was right about there being numerous hatches. I am hoping to go 2 for 2.

hey dan! I thought you were supposed to be spoiler free! I saw that in the preview, and thought the same thing...maybe part of the eugenics project, and that's why he had to be on the plane--back to my theory that the Hanso Foundation brought them back to the island, either to clean up after themselves, or to complete their Initiative....

hey dan! I thought you were supposed to be spoiler free! I saw that in the preview, and thought the same thing...maybe part of the eugenics project, and that's why he had to be on the plane--back to my theory that the Hanso Foundation brought them back to the island, either to clean up after themselves, or to complete their Initiative....

Sigh...I am but I watched the epi with my wife a second time and she watched the previews. Oh well, best intentions and all.

I just read on another board that the female de Groot's hand looks weird in the movie. Has anyone noticed that?

perhaps they are lost in time somehow. i've heard about electromagnatism could possible be used for time travel and perhaps limb damage is a side affect of "traveling" though time. this would explain the black rock being such an old ship and right in the middle of the island and it could explain the fast rising tides and maybe even the monster. typing the number into the computer keeps the time hole closed so nothing else can get out. i think desmond has forgetten to put the numbers in sometime in the past and that is what caused the plane to crash and go though the time hole. of course he didn't know he caused it, but maybe he is starting to realize now

perhaps they are lost in time somehow. i've heard about electromagnatism could possible be used for time travel and perhaps limb damage is a side affect of "traveling" though time.
Yup, you should read the Philadelpia and Montauk experiment threads. Lots of good info there about exactly this.

I wish these were my thoughts, but someone on another board noted that there are two movies that came to mind when looking at Marvin's damaged arm:
1. Dr. Strangelove; wherein the scientist tries to keep his arm immobile so as to not inadvertantly make the Nazi salute
2. Star Wars. I've always wondered about George Lucas's obsession with limb removal; Luke and Darth both lose hands, bad guys are constantly losing arms. I'm sure someone can list them more exhaustively than me. But with all the Star Wars references going around (and Star Wars is somewhat based on World War II) it seems particularly relevant...

I just read on another board that the female de Groot's hand looks weird in the movie. Has anyone noticed that?

I just watched her scenes again and didn't notice anything odd about her hands...what exactly did this poster say looked weird? I'll be happy to check it again!

I wish these were my thoughts, but someone on another board noted that there are two movies that came to mind when looking at Marvin's damaged arm:
1. Dr. Strangelove; wherein the scientist tries to keep his arm immobile so as to not inadvertantly make the Nazi salute
2. Star Wars. I've always wondered about George Lucas's obsession with limb removal; Luke and Darth both lose hands, bad guys are constantly losing arms. I'm sure someone can list them more exhaustively than me. But with all the Star Wars references going around (and Star Wars is somewhat based on World War II) it seems particularly relevant...

I second that the Dr. Strangelove connection is great. I don't know about y'all but I'm going to be staring at every new character's hands and legs tonight...

I just watched her scenes again and didn't notice anything odd about her hands...what exactly did this poster say looked weird? I'll be happy to check it again!

Cool, belshep, thanks. Here is the link:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID77/313.shtml

They think she is wearing some sort of glove on her left hand.

www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=47169&fullsize=1 (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=47169&fullsize=1)


He hasn't got an artificial arm

Look at his eyes, the left one is drooping and unfocused

He's probably partially paralysed down his left hand side, like a stroke victim

If he'd had a stroke, he'd be limping (it would affect his ENTIRE left side, not just an arm and an eye)

Did anyone get the feeling that Sawyer may have run out of luck when it comes to losing his arm? Since he didn't have to have it cut after the Sayid incident, by the time they make their way back to the doctor (if they make it back), will his arm be so infected that it can't be saved?

Did anyone get the feeling that Sawyer may have run out of luck when it comes to losing his arm? Since he didn't have to have it cut after the Sayid incident, by the time they make their way back to the doctor (if they make it back), will his arm be so infected that it can't be saved?

ACCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

Bite your tongue !!

I need Sawyer to have all of his parts, thank you!

Besides, I have a wierd, morbid fear of amputation.

jennylee27, I watched the film several more times, even in slow-mo, and I can't see anything weird about the blonde's hands. I read the posts you linked to, but I just can't see anything that looks strange or glove-like. There's one scene of her standing in front of a class with her back to the camera and her left hand looks kind of dark, but I think it was just lighting or shadows.

Anyone else see anything???

Well, it very well could be a case of reading into things a little too much. Thanks for checking!

I see these folks as separate categories:

MISSING LIMBS: Mrs. Toomey (leg - car accident), Kate's farmer (arm - unknown cause), Danielle's team member (arm - unknown cause)

DAMAGED LIMBS: Locke, Michael, Sarah (legs. Sarah and Michael were in car accidents; Locke's cause of injury still unknown)

Boone - technically just a damaged leg although Jack attempts to amputate.

Minor limb injuries: Hurley's mother (ankle injury at curb), Sawyer (stabbed arm), Jack (dislocated shoulder)

I can't tell for sure if Dr. Candle has a missing or damaged arm - anyone???

What about the guy from the Pilot whose bottom half of his leg got cut off?
Jack pulls him out from under some reckage and part of his leg is gone?
I wonder what happened to him???

jennylee27 - I agree, maybe people are reading too much into it. The actual injured/missing limbs are pretty obvious.

Good point silveranswer, I had forgotten about that guy. I don't think we ever saw him again, so he may have died. I don't even remember Jack going back to him after he asks Locke and another man to pull him away from the fuselage.

jennylee27 - I agree, maybe people are reading too much into it. The actual injured/missing limbs are pretty obvious.

Good point silveranswer, I had forgotten about that guy. I don't think we ever saw him again, so he may have died. I don't even remember Jack going back to him after he asks Locke and another man to pull him away from the fuselage.

I think Jack asked Boon to keep an eye on him while he, Kate and Charlie went to the cockpit. He mentioned a tourniquet. So it seems that he survived short-term, but was never mentioned again.

I've had a theory for a while that I've been unwilling to post because I don't know where it's going. I think the loss-of-limbs factor has to do with the recurring theme of runners and non-runners on the show. There are those who run (Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid) - they run from life, from emotional/psychogical issues, and they have never lost limbs. There are those who don't run or who have had to stop running because they have lost limbs, whether it be arms or legs, which doesn't matter because it makes them stop being physical and slows them down enough to become metaphysical (i.e. Locke, Michael, Sarah, and many others who are peripheral characters that everyone has already mentioned). This runner vs. non-runner theme keeps coming up in the show, and I think the loss of limbs is symbolic of a greater, metaphysical running that relates to the characters' past lives and what they were brought to the island for, and what they have to do/their purpose on the island. Hurley seems to have overcome some of his "running" issues in the last episode. Could it be that there were those who were somehow "clued in" to a greater purpose before they came to the island because they had to stop running due to a physical loss of limb(s)? I'm thinking specifically of Locke and his symbiotic relationship to the island. The loss of limbs could be a literary symbol/motif that is meant to show us the difference between the runners vs. non-runners' psychological state of being/progress? The non-runners somehow had a better understanding of the island and a greater understanding of the meaning of life in general? And the runners had more to learn from the island? Of course, you get into science vs. faith here as well (where faith would seem to win, but I'm not promoting that idea, so don't hold me to it). The runners rely on science and the non-runners rely on faith (because they've had to or have chosen to or have learned to). Please give me your thoughts on this. I think this is too great a theme/motif to ignore on this show, and there is definitely a bigger reason the writers are focusing on limbs, and especially the loss of limbs. It's got to be symbolic to the overall theme of the show. They are getting at some sort of bigger truth here.

There are those who don't run or who have had to stop running because they have lost limbs, whether it be arms or legs, which doesn't matter because it makes them stop being physical and slows them down enough to become metaphysical (i.e. Locke, Michael, Sarah, and many others who are peripheral characters that everyone has already mentioned).

Interesting. So you're saying that the loss of limbs are "war wounds?" I think maybe Michael is a runner though. He built the raft and tried to "run" away from the island with Walt.

Edited: Oh, and welcome to the Fuselage!

I think Jack asked Boon to keep an eye on him while he, Kate and Charlie went to the cockpit. He mentioned a tourniquet. So it seems that he survived short-term, but was never mentioned again.

What is interesting is that if he did lose his leg and survive, why did Locke's wheelchair go into the fire at the end of Walkabout (I mean, besides for the obvious symbolic importance)? Seems it could have been handy for someone with one leg (although perhaps difficult to actually roll on the sand...).

And good thoughts on the running/not running theme, tillesc! Welcome!

I never cease to be facinated that so many people can watch the exact same thing and come up with so many disparate interpretations. We humans really are interesting creatures. :)

Welcome aboard tillesc.

I think there is more to it than lost limbs. I've noticed that other characters have missing body parts. Disk 4: Episode 13 Hearts and Minds. Boone is in the Australian Police station talking with an officer. Look closely at the officer. He has a glass eye. If your looking at the tv screen, facing the officer face to face, it's the eye to "your" right. Disk 4: Episode 16 Outlaws. Sawyer is walking into his hotel room with a girl. He's surprized to find Hibbs sitting in a chair waiting for Sawyer in the dark. Look at Hibbs hand as he is drinking his scotch. He's missing part of his finger.

Whoa, twinkies, great catches! I never noticed those details.

And tillesc, your running theory is very interesting. It also brings into question whether some of these people were forced to stop running (literally and figuratively) because of their losses or injuries and whether that changed their overall attitude towards life, faith vs. science, and how it affects their behavior on the island. Remember, Michael was planning to go to Amsterdam right before he got hit by the car.

ETA: Welcome to you both!

Whoa! Twinkies, I can't wait to go back and watch my DVDs! Nice one, and welcome to the Fuselage! Nice couple of first posts there.

Don't forget the marshall that was with Kate...He a piece of metal stuck in his leg as well, didn't he?

Don't forget the marshall that was with Kate...He a piece of metal stuck in his leg as well, didn't he?

He had shrapnel stuck in his chest.

While reading a new thread, "Black, White....Dharma/?

I had a disturbing thought about the missing limbs. I saw a show years ago (twilight zone maybe?) where a man wishes to quit smoking. Anyway the gist of it is he breaks the rules and is punished, but when he takes it too far he has his finger cut off. Motivation right!!! You also see one of the guys who is trying to quit smoking with his wife, and she has her finger cut off.

Made me think that maybe the limbs are sacrifices to Dharma. Okay sacrifice isn't the right word, but you get where I'm going with this?

Ray the farmer gave his limb to save his wife? Didn't work out too well for him

Sam's wife was missing a leg?

Hibbs' is missing a finger.

Locke lost the use of his legs.

Dr. Marvin Candle has a prostethic arm.

Susan died of a blood disorder. She was sacrificed for Walt?

Cop in Australia has a glass eye?

Does that inspire any ideas in anyone?

Sorry for double posting, but I went and reread the whole thread after posting


I see these folks as separate categories:

MISSING LIMBS: Mrs. Toomey (leg - car accident), Kate's farmer (arm - unknown cause), Danielle's team member (arm - unknown cause)

DAMAGED LIMBS: Locke, Michael, Sarah (legs. Sarah and Michael were in car accidents; Locke's cause of injury still unknown)

Boone - technically just a damaged leg although Jack attempts to amputate.

Minor limb injuries: Hurley's mother (ankle injury at curb), Sawyer (stabbed arm), Jack (dislocated shoulder)

I can't tell for sure if Dr. Candle has a missing or damaged arm - anyone???

Nice to have the list up top

Just found this thread after posting a similar one in the "Orientation" forum titled "Dr. Candle in filmstrip"

I had viewed a media clip on www.oceanicflight815.com (http://www.oceanicflight815.com) in which Danielle mentioned one of her team members losing an arm.

Some websites have listed the name she says as "Montand" or "Montan"
Dr. Candle's first name is "Marvin".
The one armed farmer that Kate stayed with is Ray "Mullen".

Funny how all these names sound alike. (M_______N)

Martha is Toomey, but Michael is Dawson. Any other M.....N names?


LostintheSouth - you just reminded me of another Michael/leg incident. He got gored by the boar when he went into the jungle with Kate and Locke! And he came limping back to the beach...he is having problems with his legs, isn't he?

buzmeg, thanks for clarifying that the name was Montand.

As well as his car accident injury


so, did someone close to Marvin "use" the numbers, like Lenny, and as a result, Marvin lost his arm?

That's what I'm thinking now.


What about the guy from the Pilot whose bottom half of his leg got cut off?
Jack pulls him out from under some reckage and part of his leg is gone?
I wonder what happened to him???

I recall talking about this and coming to the conclusion that it wasn't life threatening? I think part of our reasoning was that he left Boone in charge of the guy while he went off on an A team adventure, and didn't give many instructions, like he wasn't worried???

WiF: i'm sure you saw over on the Tiberius thread the whole thing I found about transhumansists (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=565911&highlight=transhuman#post565911).
Transhuman is a term that refers to an intermediary form between the human and the posthuman.

The etymology of the term "transhuman" goes back to futurist philosopher FM-2030, formerly known as F. M. Esfandiary, who, while teaching new concepts of the human at New School University in 1966, introduced it as shorthand for "transitional human." Calling transhumans the "earliest manifestation of new evolutionary beings," FM argued that signs of transhumanity included protheses, plastic surgery, intensive use of telecommunications, a cosmopolitan outlook and a globetrotting lifestyle, androgyny, mediated reproduction (such as in vitro fertilisation), absence of religious beliefs, and a rejection of traditional family values.

I think the transhumans are represented on the show by the Hanso/Dharma scientists working on the project to bring about "Posthumans" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posthuman_%28Human_evolution%29); or some sort of superhuman. Note that transhumans use some sort of prosthesis.

So, what if a person missing a limb or being unable to use a limb (like Dr. Marvin) is a symbol to alert us that they are with Hanso? Those who have been injured like Michael, or Sawyer have been affected by Hanso, but are not "with" them; Boone would also be an example of this. His leg was injured, but Jack never had the opportunity to cut it off--he was afffected, but not "with" Hanso.

Makes me wonder about Ray, the farmer: did he keep Kate on the farm long enough for Hanso (through the federal agent) to get to her and put her on the plane? And Martha Toomey, can we trust her? Someone on another thread pointed out the inconsistency with the jellybean story. What can we believe about her? Is she even Toomey's widow? Could she have been a plant to talk to whomever came looking for Sam Toomey? Hibbs and his missing finger: he was the reason that Sawyer went to Australia in the first place. Again, a Hanso agent making sure that Sawyer was in Australia to catch flight 815 in the first place?

Todell, I missed all that talk. It's hard to keep up with you guys on that thread. The ideas are huge and they come so fast. I have seen this mentioned but didn't really absorb it, but it sure sounds super interesting.

What is the purpose behind the protheses? Something along the line of "6 million dollar man" enhanced capabilities?

Woah, is that a connection to Hurley's lotto win?

What is the purpose behind the protheses? Something along the line of "6 million dollar man" enhanced capabilities?

Woah, is that a connection to Hurley's lotto win?

Awesome! :jump1:

You know...maybe. I don't really know why transhumans advocate for the use of prothesis. Perhaps the idea that artifical whatevers would be superior to our natural limbs? I found this on some weird transhumanist blog (http://eric.transhuman.org/archives/transhumanism/index.html):

Bionic Arms

Bionic Arm brings back sense of touch. Really cool: basically they took the severed arm/hand nerves left over from his accident, and rerouted them under his skin to his chest. Then, they built a machine which would translate signals coming from the prosthesis arm/hand into pressure on the appropate area of his chest.

And Presto, he feels like he has an arm/hand again! Touch and temperature sensation are both transmitted, according to the article.

But that's not all...

They also performed the reverse magic - the signals coming down the nerves which would tell his (now gone) real arm/hand how to move were converted into signals controlling the prosthesis, and so he has *natural* control over the new prosthetic arm. A machine literally obeys his thoughts!

Imagine how this could be applied in a non-injured patient. If you put a bridge/bypass in the outgoing nerves, and recorded those signals, you could build a computer program which would "monitor" your hand/arm movements. It could replicate the movements of your arm/hand with a machine. Or, you could simply program in recognition of certain movements as representing e.g. letters, and you could type without a keyboard!

Of course there is no funding for such a project right now, but wouldn't it make a great startup company?

I guess they look forward to a merging of man and machine? Beats me...

I quickly looked at the sites connected to the one you posted, and I can see I have hours of reading ahead of me. *rolls eyes, but is really excited*

One thing that popped out at me right away was the term, "eugenics". While looking up other stuff, I made a connection with eugenics and Lost, but never posted it.

Thanks for something new to think about.

Gets me thinking of the nanites theory and also that the 'others' may be controlled by someone. Also the monster could be built of parts of humans/animals/machine and controlled by this someone. I wonder if the numbers could be some sort of code controlling them ?

Hi all, newbie here,so please go easy on me. :undecide:

In Latin, the word for left is "sinister", and the word for right is "dexter". Thus the word ambidextrous, meaning loosely, "like having 2 right hands."

I'm not sure how this practice came about or when it stopped, and even it's authenticity is second-hand (no pun intended), but in the early days of Catholic education, nuns and priests who taught dissuaded writing with your left hand, no matter your genetic handedness.

My 13 years of Catholic school seem to harken back to a tale where, at one point, Lucifer sat at God's left hand, one of his most revered and powerful servants. Of course, I believe we all know where he ended up.

Perhaps the problems, which seem to all be with their left limbs, could be explained as possibly a "Good vs. Evil" type of thing.

Again, just a theory.

Perhaps the problems, which seem to all be with their left limbs, could be explained as possibly a "Good vs. Evil" type of thing. Again, just a theory.


Welcome, harperse! I'm a leftie, so I found your historical Catholic perspective interesting:smile:

Very interesting harperse thankyou.:)

Of course there is no funding for such a project right now, but wouldn't it make a great startup company?

All of this reminds me of the concept of the Whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Could those missing limbs be symbolic of what they are contributing to, the greater program of Hanso. Lending a hand so to speak? har. har. Is this our ironic 'greater good'?

The transhumanist angle is really interesting. In part because the missing limbs are being replaced by something greater, more enhanced. A metaphor for what has to be done to humans, something fundamental (our innate behavior) must be removed and replaced with something else which would tie in with the eugenics, the testing all that good stuff.

It seems like the people who are missing arms, Dr. Candle, Ray, {Montand (Montagne?) possibly} are of the same age group or would be around the same age, Dr. Candle and Ray could have lost their arms in the same war, or a particular 'incident'.

The transhumanist angle is really interesting. In part because the missing limbs are being replaced by something greater, more enhanced. A metaphor for what has to be done to humans, something fundamental (our innate behavior) must be removed and replaced with something else which would tie in with the eugenics, the testing all that good stuff.

Good idea. Maybe they were supposed to have replacement parts that were superior, but it doesn't look like that happened. Marvin's arm seemed useless, Mrs. Toomey's mechanical leg seemed primitive and Kate's farmer's arm just seemed to be plastic. Maybe something went wrong with the experiment and they had to resort to old-fashioned prosthetics?

The transhumanist angle is really interesting. In part because the missing limbs are being replaced by something greater, more enhanced. A metaphor for what has to be done to humans, something fundamental (our innate behavior) must be removed and replaced with something else which would tie in with the eugenics, the testing all that good stuff.

cmcd and todell: My own impression is still that the fake limb is somehow linked with Montand. But your talk of transhumanism made me think back to the discussions we had way back when on Tiberius about singularity, terrans, and cosmoists.

For those unfamiliar, singularity is the notion that technology is advancing so rapidly that we are fast approaching the point where self-aware computers will surpass humans in strength and intelligence. Proponents (called cosmists) view this development as positive. Opponents (called terrans) take a more pessimistic view. They fear we will become totally dependent upon these conscious super computers, which will themselves begin judging humanity--and find us wanting.Interestingly, there are those cosmoists who believe that the development of cyborgs (i.e., part human, part machine) will avert the terran nightmare. Humans and machines will merge, rendering fears of discrimination against the former by the latter moot. Terrans, needless to say, remain largely unconvinced.

All of which is to wonder: could the prostheses in the show be priming us for some sort of cyborg down the line? I know it's out there, but before you dismiss the notion out of hand, consider that fake limbs are a pretty common trope in films (e.g., Star Wars and I, Robot) about cyborgs.

DHARMA
DHARMA

DHARMA=HAD ARM

I LOVE IT, mr. find!

I usually sort of roll my eyes at the anagrams, but considering this one is awesome and it pertains to my thread, I LOVE IT, Lo Adoro.

Harm arm, had arm, so awesome.

mr_find: Add my voice to the chorus of congrats--great find!

I'll take credit for the first one. The second one (had arm) I saw somewhere else on this board. I've gotta find who posted that one. Thanks.

DHARMA
DHARMA

DHARMA=HAD ARM

Now this is just intriguing!

Awww...look....
The teddy bear has a hurt leg. (http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~andorfc/teddy1.jpg)
Hmmm....

DHARMA
DHARMA

DHARMA=HAD ARM


EXCELLENT!! Maybe the arms are the real clue and the other missing limbs and body parts are the red herrings to confuse us.

Maybe the arms are important, but I'm not so sure. There is a new thread that posits there may be connections to the Egyptian Book of the Dead (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=25175),

There is this, that caught my attention and made me want to post a link here:

You must become Orion and be able to ride along the fixed stars.
You must gain knowledge of the mysterious paths in the land of the dead.
In the process all your body parts must be replaced by body parts from different gods.

The final line reminded me of the Transhumanism that has been discussed here, real arms being replaced by fake arms, etc.

I like Todell's posit here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=589080&postcount=5) tieing Hanso and the Amenti.

Take a look at the Amenti Thread, it really is interesting.

Glass eye?

And Ana's comment about removing a finger.

Why was there a glass eye in the container and who did it belong to? Possible clue as to what they do in the tail survivor's hatch?

And both these things relate to Sawyer:

- The Australian policeman who deports him has a glass eye
- Hibbs is the one with a missing finger

Eyes and fingers ...weird recurring stuff....much too strange not to be significant.

And, while it wasn't missing, you musn't forget the tail guy who's leg was broken, became infected and died. (that scene with Libby--another doctor wannabe who dropped out, like Desmond--eeesh...). Don't know if it counts...

Eyes, fingers, limbs.... Hmmm. There has to be a reason for this. Why would these people have connections to the survivors "before" the crash? Also, Sawyer hadn't killed anyone until his conversation with Hibbs. Maybe Hibbs didn't have any reason for wanting that guy killed other than he had to make Sawyer do it and it didn't matter who it was. The guy was just an easy target for Hibbs and Hibbs was confident Sawyer would do it. Then there's Jack's dad. Sawyer might not have done it except that he talked with Jack's dad at the bar. Why was Jack's dad going all the way to Australia to get drunk and hide out. Jack's dad the surgeon was there for a purpose as well and I think a big part of it was to make sure Sawyer did the deed, but why? In the next episode they show Kate comforting Sawyer. I tried to see if he still has an arm but I have a feeling Jack had to take it. G-d I hope not, my poor, he's so stinkin cute Sawyer.....

twinkies, i've said it before, I'll say it again, that arm is coming off. the eye and the finger as belshep pointed out, sort of sealed the deal for me.

cmcdtv: I think I may have found at least a piece of the artificial limb puzzle. Did you see the theory (http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3377) from 4815162342.com that I linked to on the tiberius thread? Now check out my response (http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42686#42686), which was actually inspired in part by this thread. I think the original dharma scientists have become cyborg artilects who use their enhanced powers to influence events on the show.

Simply put, they are playing god with our lostaways.

some interesting ideas and completely believable, but I'm with Todell on the no implanted memories theory, (silly overly cautious spoiler regarding Vanilla Sky Abre los ojos so don't read if you don't know its plot twist.)although I prefer the cryogenics Abre los ojos style a film we both enjoyed, I believe.)
I want to believe that the plane really crashed, and that there is a shadowy conspiracy involved here, perhaps as those who are maliciously controlling the CC or artilects, so sort of with you and I think the artilect idea ties in nicely, or is a parallel to transhumanism what with replacing body parts and all.

But let me ask, would you say that the CC was responsible for the lost of limbs, or that those who are missing limbs are some sort of CC recognition of their cyborg status or neither one of those ideas?

I think the glass eye qualifies as a prosthesis of sorts. Perhaps a symbol of the collective consciousness's artificially enhanced remote viewing abilities?

Maybe it's more than just a glass eye like a bionic eye or something. I hope they kept it and show it to Jack and the rest of the survivors.

Don't forget the glass eye from the Arrow bunker.

With all the discussion of doctors and lost/missing limbs, this thread reminds me a whole lot of Frankenstein. Mary Shelley derived inspiration for her book from her father's studies on Paracelsus and homunculus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus). btw, Shelley's father was named William Godwin (Godwin is another version of the name Goodwin).

I'd been wondering earlier if there could possibly be a more tactile explanation for this idea of Collective Un/Consciousness. Possibly via brain or spinal implants (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=583957&postcount=26) of some kind. Some type of advanced neuroprosthetics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroprosthetics)? Depending on the spin, that could explain numerous things in the story (Walt making the rain stop, Lock predicting it, Rose knowing Bernard was alive, Shannon seeing Walt, Jack seeing his father, etc). If there is some kind of hypothetical man-machine interface in the story, I'm not sure we can trust anything the characters believe they see (or remember). Ultimately, I do think the island is real... but every single event / person / thing on it? Not so certain. Could the Lostaways be - in a sense - satellites feeding / being (perpetually?) implanted with data?

The missing limbs may indicate the function that person played in the larger conspiracy.

Missing Leg: The person was a mule, a messenger.
Missing Arm: The person was an operator, a handler.
Missing Eye: The person was a watcher, an overseer.

In this past week's episode we find out that Libby also broke her leg: "Nah, it's not that bad. I broke my leg skiing up at Stowe in Vermont....Snapped my left leg. Now that... that was bad." Maybe we'll find out more details about that later.

Didn't one of Rousseau's colleagues lose an arm on the island?

Danielle syops the tour in the Dark Territory and says "This is where MOntand Lost his Arm"

DOCTOR MARVIN CANDLE is an anagram for MONTAND LIAR COVER

How about the broken leg LIbby treated in The other 48 days?

The missing limbs may indicate the function that person played in the larger conspiracy.

Missing Leg: The person was a mule, a messenger.
Missing Arm: The person was an operator, a handler.
Missing Eye: The person was a watcher, an overseer.
That begs the question of whether the parts are missing as punishment for some failure, omission, or betrayal by the person?

In this past week's episode we find out that Libby also broke her leg: "Nah, it's not that bad. I broke my leg skiing up at Stowe in Vermont....Snapped my left leg. Now that... that was bad." Maybe we'll find out more details about that later.

Which is interesting because she makes friends with Michael who also broke his leg.

This is her second similarity to someone on the island. Libby also dropped out of medical school like Desmond...

Danielle syops the tour in the Dark Territory and says "This is where MOntand Lost his Arm"

DOCTOR MARVIN CANDLE is an anagram for MONTAND LIAR COVER

How about the broken leg LIbby treated in The other 48 days?


You're missing a C and a D. There are two C's and D's in Doctor Marvin Candle.

His entire body almost looks as though his entire left side is artificial. Either way, he's one creepy looking dude.

The teddy bear that one of the small Others (or can it be Walt?) carries appears to have a white bandage wrapped around its left leg.

I think they're playing with our heads by bandaging the teddy bear.

If Vincent starts limping, I'll scream!

I don't know about the teddy bear but maybe it's leg is a clue about Michael or Libby and what is happening.

That, in a way, made me think about an image, of a rabbit's foot, Todell, which is supposed to be lucky right? even though it is severed from its body.

"Nathan was not a good person. That's why he wasn't on the list." -- Crazy theory, but maybe the list of "good" people are ones that haven't had any major surgery. It seems that a lot of the people left behind have had hospital visits in their flashbacks.

That surgery thing, it sounds familiar.
Maybe they are like Howard Hughes fanatics or something.
Watch out for larges jars with a yellow substance inside.

"Nathan was not a good person. That's why he wasn't on the list." -- Crazy theory, but maybe the list of "good" people are ones that haven't had any major surgery. It seems that a lot of the people left behind have had hospital visits in their flashbacks.

That's an interesting idea - 'good' meaning their bodies have never been damaged or tampered with in any way. It could also apply to things like drug addiction, smoking and alcoholism...this eliminates a lot of the Lostaways as potential 'good people'.

magnet: Very, very interesting speculation. I'm one who thinks the Others might be some sort of luddites or radical back-to-nature types. Perhaps they're skeptical of anyone tainted by technology...

That's an interesting idea - 'good' meaning their bodies have never been damaged or tampered with in any way. It could also apply to things like drug addiction, smoking and alcoholism...this eliminates a lot of the Lostaways as potential 'good people'.

I had been thinking that he meant good by the projects that had been successful that the others (scientists of dharma or other test subjects) need to collect, as though the list was of people who were successful test subjects that then needed to be rounded up as opposed to the experiments that went awry.

But the idea of these individuals being good in that they haven't had major medical problems is an interesting take.

But the idea of these individuals being good in that they haven't had major medical problems is an interesting take.

And it could explain the interest in children, who are less likely to have had severe injuries, addictions, surgeries, etc.

It also makes me think of Walt in relation to Susan's 'blood disease'...what if he inherited something that will make him sick eventually and that's why he was 'let go' by the Others and is wandering around the island? Maybe they started an experiment or project with him and discovered something wrong with his blood and released him - that could be why he seems to be in an altered state of some kind.

That's an interesting idea - 'good' meaning their bodies have never been damaged or tampered with in any way. It could also apply to things like drug addiction, smoking and alcoholism...this eliminates a lot of the Lostaways as potential 'good people'.
belshep: Fascinating! Especially since some have speculated that Nathan may have had a drug problem like Charlie...

bigmouth, I haven't read anything about Nathan and drugs, but it would explain him disappearing into the jungle as Charlie did early on. Or maybe his 2-hour bathroom breaks were due to a physical problem?

I have long thought that "DOCTOR MARVIN CANDLE" was an anagram for "MONTAND LIAR COVER" and Damen Livdelof and Carleton Cuse allude to "prosthetic limb" clues in this weeks podcast:
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcasts.html

Just ran across these intriguing quotes from two so-called "extropians" (i.e., transhumanists):
Whether or not the superintelligent catalyst has a human component, my transhuman respondents put the arrival of the Singularity within 10 to 60 years. Given the imminence of this wrenching, certainly chaotic change, what can society at large do to prepare itself?
EWF> Propagate Buddhism. I'm not kidding. Buddhism is the only religion I know of that has evolved what I think is an approximately sane value system for the future, and it is the only religion I know of that asks its adherents to deal with the fact that change, personal change, is inevitable.
***
Time is getting short. Most of the Transhumanists expect the Singularity to occur in their lifetimes. Neural implants are not yet available and mind-uploading is still in the realm of science fiction. My final question to my panelists, therefore, was: What are you, personally, doing that will allow you to make the transition from transhuman to post-human?
JKC> Trying to stay alive until the Singularity and planning to make use of cryonics in case I cannot. (Cryonics is the science of ultra-low temperatures. In this case, it refers to the practice of freezing people at death, in the hopes of resurrecting them after medical science advances).

We were talking about Unit 731 elsewhere, and I stumbled across something that struck me as relevant to this thread. Apparently, Unit 731 were big into live vivisections of human subjects to test the effects of disease on the body:
* Live vivisections were performed on prisoners infected with various diseases; scientists would remove organs to study the effects of the disease on the human body.
* Prisoners were amputated limb by limb to study blood loss.
* Arms were cut off and reattached to opposite sides.
* Limbs were frozen and sawed off.
* Stomachs were surgically removed and the esophagus was reattached to the intestines.
* Parts of the brain, lungs, liver, et cetera were taken out.
* Vivisection of a pregnant woman (impregnated by one of the doctors) and the fetus.

(The accusation of experiments involving pregnant women is debatable. Although many experiments were performed to simulate battle-field injury and amputations, documentation of experiments involving women and children are scant and unreliable.)

We were talking about Unit 731 elsewhere, and I stumbled across something that struck me as relevant to this thread. Apparently, Unit 731 were big into live vivisections of human subjects to test the effects of disease on the body:

Thanks Bigmouth. I bring up Unit 731 and don't even think about how it can apply to my own favorite subject, missing limbs! That's why I love these boards the interconnectedness of everything!:redface:

* Arms were cut off and reattached to opposite sides.

Again, I'm in a silly mood, but it reminds me of an arrested development episode where G.O.B. suffers a finger reattachement that risks his magician's career.

Ok, well I'm out. Done with work for the week, yeah! off to complain about work with fellow longhorn co-worker!

Also, cmcdtv, the PM I received from aureus references H.G. Wells' "The Island of Doctor Moreau", on which vivisection (ugh) was utilized...just pasting here my post from the resulting discussion on Tib's thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=647857&highlight=Moreau+aureus#post647857) and I added bold commands to the line about "a squint"...sorry it's so long but it might help! Those interested may want to go look at the link above...turns out most of aureus' post refers to the aforementioned work.

got a PM from aureus:
------------

the last scroll

one aureus for you

The third scroll of LOST:

Follow the Faith of Lady Vain II

Search the “The House of Pain“ IX

Adhere to the Law „Are we not men?“ XIII

Fear – The thing in the Forest X


-The study of Nature makes a man at last as remorse-less as Nature- 1896


Don’t wake - the Medusa


respectfully

b.robo.p.

------------
Is "aureus" an anagram for "ruseau"?

Medusa is the mythological goddess with the multiple snake head...refers to the tentacle-monster that grabbed Locke?

The nature quote is from H.G. Wells' "The Island of Doctor Moreau" (http://www.bartleby.com/1001/14.html) ...here is the excerpt (pretty grisly...vivisection, etc.) where the narrator is speaking to Doctor Moreau:

“But,” said I, “the thing is an abomination—” 28 “To this day I have never troubled about the ethics of the matter,” he continued. “The study of Nature makes a man at last as remorse-less as Nature. I have gone on, not heeding anything but the question I was pursuing; and the material has—dripped into the huts yonder. It is really eleven years since we came here, I and Montgomery and six Kanakas. I remember the green stillness of the island and the empty ocean about us, as though it was yesterday. The place seemed waiting for me. 29 “The stores were landed and the house was built. The Kanakas founded some huts near the ravine. I went to work here upon what I had brought with me. There were some disagreeable things happened at first. I began with a sheep, and killed it after a day and a half by a slip of the scalpel. I took another sheep, and made a thing of pain and fear and left it bound up to heal. It looked quite human to me when I had finished it; but when I went to it I was discontented with it. It remembered me, and was terrified beyond imagination; and it had no more than the wits of a sheep. The more I looked at it the clumsier it seemed, until at last I put the monster out of its misery. These animals without courage, these fear-haunted, pain-driven things, without a spark of pugnacious energy to face torment,—they are no good for man-making. 30 “Then I took a gorilla I had; and upon that, working with infinite care and mastering difficulty after difficulty, I made my first man.


ETA again: Sorry for the long post, but earlier in the above-referenced work and chapter, here is something else that's interesting:


“You forget all that a skilled vivisector can do with living things,” said Moreau. “For my own part, I’m puzzled why the things I have done here have not been done before. Small efforts, of course, have been made,—amputation, tongue-cutting, excisions. Of course you know a squint may be induced or cured by surgery? Then in the case of excisions you have all kinds of secondary changes, pigmentary disturbances, modifications of the passions, alterations in the secretion of fatty tissue. I have no doubt you have heard of these things?”

Tiberius had a clue yesterday about Dr. Frankenstein (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=660936&postcount=96) which brought about the discussion of transhumanism again so that's another Dr. to add to our list Tabby!

I agree with bigmouth, I think this is an important part of what is going on with the show and I think the Dr. Frankenstein and Dr. Moreau references have to do with this.

The transhumanist philopshy has so much to work with, I was transfixed by some of the web sites. So many interesting quandries with their ideas it seems like it would make great fodder for some of the mysteries on our island.

Speaking of Dr. Moreau, has anyone heard anything from Aureus recently? The last PM I got was the same as Tabby. I sent a reply asking if the animals were somehow conscious but got no response.

Many have speculated that the experiments on the island might have involved efforts to mix human and animal DNA. Some have further speculated that the electromagnetism of the island might be mutating or otherwise altering that DNA.

We've seen indications that one symptom of that mutation/alteration may be a linking of minds on the island (via em transmissions). What if the combined result has also been to link human with animal minds on the island? Or animal minds with one another?

Language is a barrier to animal singularity. But what happens when animals can communicate directly with their minds?

Anyway, apologies for going OT, but it seemed tangentially relevant.

Language is a barrier to animal singularity. But what happens when animals can communicate directly with their minds?

Anyway, apologies for going OT, but it seemed tangentially relevant.

You are talking to the queen of OT. Your idea actually reminded me of a post I read earlier from a thread inspired by the onion. Devolved into people posting their favorite Onion articles, reminded me of this post and the article (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=656946&postcount=56) it links to.

Hi - new to this board & very intrigued by this thread. I have been posting on another board & put up a theory that the show is based on transhumanism - but it didn't cause a dialogue on the topic.

Big Mouth - I see that you have been looking into Transhumanism. I got into this philosophy after the Hanso site put up their different projects. They all fall into the transhumanist line of thinking - so I started researching it.

The utlimate goal of transhumanism is life-extension to the point of immortality.
Do you think that Locke is possibly a posthuman?? Transhumanists stress that physical disabilities can and will be abolished with the use of nanotechnology.
They also stress the use of nanotechnology in improving one’s mind and intellect.

Now, prior to the ‘crash’ – Locke doesn’t appear to be the intellectual that he clearly is now. Nanotechnology could be responsible for both his loss of disability and gain of intellect.

My theory is that the Dharma/Hanso group is a transhumanist group that is experimenting their quest for life-extension/ immortality. Possibly Ethan Rom was an earlier attempt. (ROM - was a marvel character that gave up his humanity & became half-human/half machine). Ethan did appear to have superior strenth - but not intellect.

There seem to be subtle hints to transhumanism throughout the show. It doesn't explain everything that is happening - but it does give the writers a lot of possiblities as far as storylines go.

Thoughts?

Hey, Punky! Welcome to The Fuselage. Great first post. (By the way: it is really weird that this is the board that you chose to post in first. My sister, cmcd started the thread, and my nickname for her is Punky. When I saw you on the boards, I thought she had registered a new name for some sneaky reason. HEY! It ISN'T you, is it, cmcd?)

Anyway, I think the creators ave shot down the Ethan Rom has super-human strength thing, saying that he had help and was just lucky in his fights. I do think he and Goodwin are part of the Dharma project, but as researchers (former researchers, perhaps? And are they doctors, cmcd?).

And Locke as posthuman--I'm with you on that. Furthermore, I think all of the survivors of the crash may very well be posthumans.

You should check out the Tiberius threads (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=29469). Lots of transhuman stuff going on there. Long read, but worthwhile. Have fun!

And Locke as posthuman--I'm with you on that. Furthermore, I think all of the survivors of the crash may very well be posthumans.

I'm interested in how you think Vincent fits into that scenario...

Thanks for the thread Todell! I think there may be other people too - just cannot make it plausible at this time. I would post my whole theory - but I want to read through the Tiberius threads. Would hate & be embarrassed to post something already discussed.

I'm interested in how you think Vincent fits into that scenario...

You know, I'm not sure. But it sure seems that there have been other zoology experiments in Dharma, I don't know why he couldn't be one more. I am in the camp that believes that Brian works for Hanso, and deliberately put Michael and Walt on that plane so they would go to the island (if there is a camp that believes that....) But anyway, Walt specifically says that Vincent is Brian's dog, not his. If Brian originally worked for Hanso (still does?) then is Vincent one more Dharma project that Brian took with him or was given to him? We have an awful lot of animals popping up, and dogs are often test subjects (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/12/07/dog.dna.ap/) to the chagrin of PETA.

Furthermore, information about Joop and the life-extension project (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/lep.html) begs the question: which project (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html) was Vincent a part of (if he is part of one...)? Remote Viewing perhaps? Maybe multiple ones...

(Sorry to drag this discussion off into Doggy territory, cmcd. But I'm sure Biggie Smalls wouldn't mind. :smile: )

Maybe Dr. Candle's physical disabilities were caused by the "incident"?

Maybe the "incident" caused the blast doors to shut and Dr. Candle's arm got caught.

Yep this is my first post here. But a long time lurker.

Not a very compelling first post I must admit. I'll make up for the next time.:)

Hi - new to this board & very intrigued by this thread. I have been posting on another board & put up a theory that the show is based on transhumanism - but it didn't cause a dialogue on the topic.

Big Mouth - I see that you have been looking into Transhumanism. I got into this philosophy after the Hanso site put up their different projects. They all fall into the transhumanist line of thinking - so I started researching it.

The utlimate goal of transhumanism is life-extension to the point of immortality.
Do you think that Locke is possibly a posthuman?? Transhumanists stress that physical disabilities can and will be abolished with the use of nanotechnology.
They also stress the use of nanotechnology in improving one’s mind and intellect.

Now, prior to the ‘crash’ – Locke doesn’t appear to be the intellectual that he clearly is now. Nanotechnology could be responsible for both his loss of disability and gain of intellect.

My theory is that the Dharma/Hanso group is a transhumanist group that is experimenting their quest for life-extension/ immortality. Possibly Ethan Rom was an earlier attempt. (ROM - was a marvel character that gave up his humanity & became half-human/half machine). Ethan did appear to have superior strenth - but not intellect.

There seem to be subtle hints to transhumanism throughout the show. It doesn't explain everything that is happening - but it does give the writers a lot of possiblities as far as storylines go.

Thoughts?
First, welcome to the fuselage punky. That was the nickname given to me by my sis and her friends, who you'll see every so often, under the name todell, gave me, in part, because of my love for the clash (we needn't go into the other reasons...)

I thnk transhumanism is a major theme here, and that the missing limbs are a clue to that philosophy. Todell posted a discussion from a transhumanism board about prosthetic limbs, a little creepy.

I think the DR. aspect is more important than I realized when I started the thread. In that, for example, doctors would be more prone to accepting work for the 'greater good' More succeptible to doing things for the betterment of humanity, without regard for the moral/ethical consequences ( somethig I feel transhumanists may be prone to as well)

You know, I'm not sure. But it sure seems that there have been other zoology experiments in Dharma, I don't know why he couldn't be one more. I am in the camp that believes that Brian works for Hanso, and deliberately put Michael and Walt on that plane so they would go to the island (if there is a camp that believes that....) But anyway, Walt specifically says that Vincent is Brian's dog, not his. If Brian originally worked for Hanso (still does?) then is Vincent one more Dharma project that Brian took with him or was given to him? We have an awful lot of animals popping up, and dogs are often test subjects (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/12/07/dog.dna.ap/) to the chagrin of PETA.

Furthermore, information about Joop and the life-extension project (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/lep.html) begs the question: which project (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html) was Vincent a part of (if he is part of one...)? Remote Viewing perhaps? Maybe multiple ones...

so, my guess with vincent is that if he is part of an experiment, locke's story about his mom and sister, as well as the fact that walt gives vincent to shannon after boone dies, is really important. Perhaps he's part of a transgenic (http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Trans/hmepg.html) experiment? (notice, again, like gene therapy links, this comes from Oak Ridge National labs.) It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that perhaps he is from a line of transgenic puppies, altered to be better 'hunting' dogs or companions, with human dna. third generation canine?

I am linking to an article that is a critique of transhumanism from the opposite extreme (http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-smith092002.asp) just to add another perspective on the transhumanist idea perhaps it can help us to understand the forces opposed to hanso/dharma....

(Sorry to drag this discussion off into Doggy territory, cmcd. But I'm sure Biggie Smalls wouldn't mind. :smile: )

uh, sis, I think you know he loves it when you call him big poppa. I would never allow notorious d.o.g. to be the victim of transgenic testing. No, the closest I'd come to altering him to be more human is getting him a grill:smile:

eta the transgenic link.

Furthermore, information about Joop and the life-extension project (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/lep.html) begs the question: which project (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html) was Vincent a part of (if he is part of one...)? Remote Viewing perhaps? Maybe multiple ones...

Vincent was Brian's dog, not Walt's. That makes Vincent a minimum of 8 years old. (since Walt was apparently about 2 when Brian came into the picture)

They moved from New York to (Scandinavia somewhere?) I don't recall where to first, and then on to Australia from there.

With the exception of the very wealthy, it is not the norm for people who move around internationally to drag pets along with them. Unless it is a particularly beloved pet. This would normally be a pet someone has had with them for a long time.

That makes Vincent's age, 8 years plus a *long time*, which equals, who knows how old. What is the normal life span of a lab? At the very least, Vincent would have to be nearing the end.Most dogs (like anything else) tend to slow down in their latter years and not do nearly as much running off as Vincent is prone to doing.

Point being ... if Brian is part of Dharma ... then Vincent could well be part of the life extension project.

Why vincent (http://www.slate.com/id/2132199/?nav=fo)?

I love this thread. I am in the nanite camp but also with ties to Brian and Vincent being DHARMA.
First thing I see is that The docs arm in the orientation film is dark and creepy (DEAD)
Why keep a dead arm...I think that it has its own life (when it wishes or is being controlled).
Possibly you gain power in this organization by sacrifice.
Military Structured.
A Finger makes you a private
A Hand makes you a Sargeant
An arm makes you a General
Your Body is the ultimate sacrifice and makes you THEIRS.
In my scenario THEY are Nanobots.
Just my Thoughts
Hope I didn't step on toes here.

Why do I suddenly have the scene from Lethal Weapon, where Mr. Joshua holds out his arm to be burned, playing in my head?

{{shudders}}

I love this thread. I am in the nanite camp but also with ties to Brian and Vincent being DHARMA.
First thing I see is that The docs arm in the orientation film is dark and creepy (DEAD)
Why keep a dead arm...I think that it has its own life (when it wishes or is being controlled).
Possibly you gain power in this organization by sacrifice.
Military Structured.
A Finger makes you a private
A Hand makes you a Sargeant
An arm makes you a General
Your Body is the ultimate sacrifice and makes you THEIRS.
In my scenario THEY are Nanobots.
Just my Thoughts
Hope I didn't step on toes here.

Since my feet are usually in my mouth, it's kind of hard to step on my toes. I have to admit that I don't follow the nanobots theories as well as I should, but I definitely like the idea of the symbolism of membership. Similar to how the mafia is set up, and I imagine, how Mr. Paik runs his organization.

Your Body is the ultimate sacrifice and makes you THEIRS.

I've admitted by ignorance about nanobots, but could my favorite doctor have provided his own "christian" sacrifice?

Lots of fascinating discussion going on here...but I hope that LOST does not soon become too scary to watch. (LOL)

More speculation about Vincent. Vincent is a Labrador Retriever, and retrievers are bred to fetch, right? And since he often runs off, it seems possible that he is bringing something to someone or something. Information seems an obvious choice...with the storage mechanism being his memory, or a device, perhaps.

I'm picturing Vincent off-screen, with someone/something telling him "Vincent, fetch Losties!"...Vincent runs to the Losties, his senses record events into his memory (or device), and somehow he knows when to return (or is called back). Who knows, he could be retrieving the Losties' thoughts and memories as well.

IF IRC, on the flight, ETA: Shannon's magazine (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...MBmagazine.jpg) had a photo of a dog and an article mentioning "chip"...perhaps as in "microchip". ETA: old discussion on N.E.R.D. thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=413445#post413445)

The retrieval process via Vincent's memory could work (in fiction), regardless of whether he is transgenic or even a nano-lab. That is, if there are ways to access and interpret his memory. His behavior could be controlled via training. He may be implanted with a chip that has audio in his hearing range but outside of human hearing range, or that has vibration mode (like a pager).

Maybe Vincent is working like a high-tech or paranormal boomerang.:biggrin:

I think the DR. aspect is more important than I realized when I started the thread. In that, for example, doctors would be more prone to accepting work for the 'greater good' More succeptible to doing things for the betterment of humanity, without regard for the moral/ethical consequences ( somethig I feel transhumanists may be prone to as well)

Hi CMCDTV - Yes, I think the Dr. aspect is going to be pretty important. Dr. Christian Shephard especially!

I would think the military is going to be involved also. I wonder if Locke had any military background. When he worked for the box company - didn't someone call him "Colonel or General" on the telephone - I believe asking if they were on a secure line. Have to go back & check the scripts on that one.

It will be interesting to see what kind of backgrounds Rose & Bernard have too.

Got to say that this thread & the Tiberius thread are really impressive. You people are REALLY intelligent & articulate. Also, this has got to be the friendliest board! It is refreshing to see that people can communicate in the manner you guys do.

Also, this has got to be the friendliest board! It is refreshing to see that people can communicate in the manner you guys do.
This never ceases to amaze me, too, punky. Lots of intelligent people on any lost board, but the fuselage is noteworthy because the dialogue is as constructive as it is interesting.

Anyway, punky's thread on transhumanism made me ponder its connection once again to the missing limb problem. We know some transhumanists believe the body is a limitation to be transcended. And it occurs to me: could the "sickness" be a distortion of that? Perhaps a perverse impulse to lop off one's limbs?

We know Danielle's crew member Montand had the "sickness" and lost an arm. Maybe it wasn't to a conventional infection (e.g., Sawyer's) or even the monster. Maybe he, or another crew member, chopped it off. Maybe something similar happened to Dr. Candle.

Hola cmcdtv, FYI: "Es mejor morir a cuatro patas, que vivir sobre dos pies"

You know this is the second time the Spanish preposition in the signature has been corrected. I feel like since I was 12 that I'll never get the correct one. Por, para that's nothing, apparently.

Gave me a chance to update the signature though.

Bigmouth, I think you are right about the connection with the missing limbs and transhumanism, especially considering Tib's clue about the sassafrass tree recently. (I'd link but I'm at work and too tired to try to open another window....)

Dr. Marvin Candle’s arm is a prosthetic… it just has to be! And to top it all off… I think his eye is as well! Didn’t a glass eye “pop” up in one of the bunkers?.... Coincidence… I don’t think so… (So say I.. or should that be Eye! Think back to all those close up’s on his eyes in the orientation film!)

-LL

We were talking about Unit 731 elsewhere, and I stumbled across something that struck me as relevant to this thread. Apparently, Unit 731 were big into live vivisections of human subjects to test the effects of disease on the body:

Bigmouth...

I am almost done reading this great thread, but wanted to post something before I forgot it. With regards to Unit 731 and the horrible things they did on live people...

The cutting out of the stomach and attaching the esophogus (I am feeling sick as I type this...***gag***!!!) directly to the intestines reminds me of a friend of my parents. He was unfortunately diagnosed this year with extremely advanced esophogeal cancer and had his entire esophogus removed.

Also...more and more people are having their stomachs stapled, which drastically decreases its size...***gag***...

It's strangely ironic how some of these advanced treatments for various cancers and what not resemble strange "experiments" from the past...

Didn't the US gov't keep some of the Japanese connected to Unit 731 out of prison by saying that if they kept doing some of the work in secret, for the US, they could avoid prison?

I find it ironic that a lot of these strange experiments from the past have snuck up to the present and have transformed themselves into acceptable procedures...of course...experimenting on live people, against their will, is unforgiveable...

Junie

And Locke as posthuman--I'm with you on that. Furthermore, I think all of the survivors of the crash may very well be posthumans.



And this would connect with the quote, "They're not the survivors they think that they are..." It brings some clarity to that one...

Bigmouth...

I am almost done reading this great thread, but wanted to post something before I forgot it. With regards to Unit 731 and the horrible things they did on live people...

The cutting out of the stomach and attaching the esophogus (I am feeling sick as I type this...***gag***!!!) directly to the intestines reminds me of a friend of my parents. He was unfortunately diagnosed this year with extremely advanced esophogeal cancer and had his entire esophogus removed.

Also...more and more people are having their stomachs stapled, which drastically decreases its size...***gag***...

It's strangely ironic how some of these advanced treatments for various cancers and what not resemble strange "experiments" from the past...

Didn't the US gov't keep some of the Japanese connected to Unit 731 out of prison by saying that if they kept doing some of the work in secret, for the US, they could avoid prison?

I find it ironic that a lot of these strange experiments from the past have snuck up to the present and have transformed themselves into acceptable procedures...of course...experimenting on live people, against their will, is unforgiveable...

Junie

And if I'm not mistaken there were a few Nazis who managed to continue practicing after they had served some time, and were working for the US Government as well. Which brings me back to the importance of the GREATER GOOD. In service to the greater good.

My sis todell has pointed out that both Sayid and Christian have speeches about hope (TR?MOS/MOF), Christian has molded Jack into a tough doctor because doctors are in the service of the greater good, and Sayid uses the idea of the"Greater Good" to push his friend into the CIA and while he is doing it for his own good (seeing Nadia) he is also in service to the greater good, trying to get the explosives back.

The whole notion of the Greater Good is very important, and I think it is important to the Transhumanism connections explicitly.

But Junie, I just wanted to say, yeah, creepy. Like Stalin says, you've got to crack a few eggs to make an omlette...(from the biggest anti-Stalinist there is :rolleyes: )

And if I'm not mistaken there were a few Nazis who managed to continue practicing after they had served some time, and were working for the US Government as well. Which brings me back to the importance of the GREATER GOOD. In service to the greater good.

My sis todell has pointed out that both Sayid and Christian have speeches about hope (TR?MOS/MOF), Christian has molded Jack into a tough doctor because doctors are in the service of the greater good, and Sayid uses the idea of the"Greater Good" to push his friend into the CIA and while he is doing it for his own good (seeing Nadia) he is also in service to the greater good, trying to get the explosives back.

The whole notion of the Greater Good is very important, and I think it is important to the Transhumanism connections explicitly.

But Junie, I just wanted to say, yeah, creepy. Like Stalin says, you've got to crack a few eggs to make an omlette...(from the biggest anti-Stalinist there is :rolleyes: )

Have some of these Losties been taught the "For the Greater Good" concept ("The End Justifies the Means") in order to justify things that will happen in the future? Or in connection to preparing them for their own futures and what they might have to do on the island "For the Greater Good"?

so, did someone close to Marvin "use" the numbers, like Lenny, and as a result, Marvin lost his arm?
The more I think about it, the more I come to believe todell has the key. Someone close to Candle must have used the numbers. Perhaps Candle lost his limb, then travelled to the island to explore the "curse".

bigmouth: upon re-reading my quote, I realized the person who used the numbers was actually Sam, not Lenny, which in turn cause Martha to lose her leg.

That said, we don't know if Lenny "used" the numbers as well...

Juniebun just described Candle as Hanso's "right hand man" on another thread, and that got me thinking. Maybe Hanso used the numbers, and that's how Candle lost his limb. Maybe this prompted the Doc to infiltrate Danielle's crew as Montand in hopes of journeying to the island.

At what point did these people in the know get their answers? When did they find out about the island and its mysterious powers? What made Candle/Montand (possibly the same person) figure that the island could help him with the arm issue? Was Candle/Montand sick of being Hanso's puppet and that's why he took off for the island? He's in the video, so does that mean he'd been to the island before - or did he just make the video and work on other experiments in another location that wasn't the island? Why do the numbers make people lose limbs? This whole line of thinking has me curious. Originally, I was just trying to be funny/punny about C/M being Hanso's "Right Hand Man" because of the limb loss, but it does make sense...

Also Sam Toomey's wife was missing a leg.

I'll tell you what's bugging me about Dr. Marvin Candle. His real name is Marvin Candle. Who is Marvin Candle? Is he really a doctor, and if he is, what kind of doctor. Also, did anyone notice his nametag? It has the image of the Caduceus of Mercury on it, a medical symbol. Also take a look at the link below.

http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html

I was especially interested in the parts about Moses and the Son of Man. Can anyone say lift it up?

Talk about the caduceus symbol with the serpent on it, has anyone noticed the new egg on the oceanic site http://oceanicworldair.com/flights.htm Check Flight 817 > Friday - pretty creepy snowman with a caduceus wand, plus lots of new clues.

Hi -- I'm not sure if this has been covered or not, but I can't stop thinking that maybe the catom thing is tied in with the missing limbs, etc. Catoms are nanites, so theoretically they could be injected into a living host, but to what end -- immortality? reprogramming? And if so (a big stretch, I know), is it something that goes wrong that causes a loss of limb, or is it a "donation" to the greater good?

Thanks -- just thought i'd put it out there...

I was thinking about Essam lately. Remember what he says to Sayid right before his demise...

Well, then, Sayid, I hope she makes you whole again.

subtle reference to missing limbs?

And sister todell ran across this, from Hearts and Minds:

I stepped on a friggin' urchin. Ow, you understand me? [Jin is helping Hurley from the surf.] Do you understand infection, gangrene, amputation? [Hurley falls on top of Jin.]

hmm....

Hey--this is a little more esoteric, but this biblical passage from Matthew (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2018;&version=31;) reminds me not only of the glass eye, but all our missing limbs as well:

Matthew 18
The Greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven
1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"

2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5"And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7"Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

Perhaps the folks who are missing parts of themselves are repenting for something terrible that they have done?

Hey--this is a little more esoteric, but this biblical passage from Matthew (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2018;&version=31;) reminds me not only of the glass eye, but all our missing limbs as well:



Perhaps the folks who are missing parts of themselves are repenting for something terrible that they have done?

Or have sacrificed for the purity of the experiments?

Hey--this is a little more esoteric, but this biblical passage from Matthew (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2018;&version=31;) reminds me not only of the glass eye, but all our missing limbs as well:



Perhaps the folks who are missing parts of themselves are repenting for something terrible that they have done?

The terrible thing or "sin" being something that they did before they joined Dharma, etc.? And upon joining the Dharma Initiative, they "repent"? Would you also say that the body part that is gone is what the sin was "done with"?

The terrible thing or "sin" being something that they did before they joined Dharma, etc.? And upon joining the Dharma Initiative, they "repent"? Would you also say that the body part that is gone is what the sin was "done with"?

My inclination is to think that the loss of limbs happens as a result of working on the Dharma Initiative, but I don't know off-hand (pun TOTALLY intended). Maybe whatever it is they are doing in Dharma is so inherently bad, they lose their limbs as a karmic consequence?

I found this quote from Solitary while doing research for the long list:

Sayid: [Subtitled] You want me to stop, Falah? Then start answering my questions because I can do this all day. I assure you we already know the truth. But I want you to admit it. [English]. And all the pain will stop. Your Shiite friends have already implicated you in the bombing. You planted the device in the Bathist headquarters, didn't you? You killed 2 soldiers. Confess it. Confess it, and perhaps it will only cost you your hands instead of your life.

The removal of the hands is a punishment--a very specific punishment for a specific crime, murder. Don't know what else to do with it, but I thought you'd like it, cmcd! (sadly, no doctors were involved in this exchange, but it is a torutre scene...)

The removal of the hands is a punishment--a very specific punishment for a specific crime, murder. Don't know what else to do with it, but I thought you'd like it, cmcd! (sadly, no doctors were involved in this exchange, but it is a torutre scene...) Here's another torture scene but with an "eye" threat...when Sawyer was refusing to give up the asthma medication for Shannon (without which she could die):
Sawyer: You know what I think, Ali. I think you've never actually tortured anybody in your life.
Sayid: Unfortunately for us both, you're wrong.
[Sayid goes and starts with the bamboo under the fingernails.]
Sawyer: That's it? That's all you got? Splinters? No wonder we kicked you *** in the Gulf. . . (screams)
Jack: Sayid. Sayid!
Sawyer: No. Don't stop now. I think my sinuses are clearing.
Jack: What the hell is wrong with you?
Sayid: Perhaps losing an eye will loosen your tongue?
Sawyer: Okay, okay.


ETA And, of course, in TO48D, about Nathan and trying to find the kidnapped children....

GOODWIN: We should let him go. We're not savages.
ANA: If I were a savage I would have cut off his finger already. That's tomorrow.

Here's another torture scene but with an "eye" threat...when Sawyer was refusing to give up the asthma medication for Shannon (without which she could die):


ETA And, of course, in TO48D, about Nathan and trying to find the kidnapped children....


Yes! The Sawyer torture scene, which Jack participates in. No, he didn't physically torture Sawyer, however he did break his oath by supervising it. As a member of the AMA (which I assume he is) he is also a member of the World Medical Association, and bound by the rules of the Declaration of Tokyo (http://www.wma.net/e/policy/c18.htm). From the link:

The physician shall not countenance, condone or participate in the practice of torture or other forms of cruel, inhuman or degrading procedures, whatever the offense of which the victim of such procedures is suspected, accused or guilty, and whatever the victim's beliefs or motives, and in all situations, including armed conflict and civil strife.

Interesting. We have a doctor with a missing limb, and a doctor supervising torture, including threats of eye removal. The same doctor who tried to amputate Boone's leg.

Boone, who, is should be mentioned, told Jack not to amputate for essentially, 'the greater good' in the end he knew he wouldn't survive and he'd be a strain on whatever supplies were left.

Interesting. We have a doctor with a missing limb, and a doctor supervising torture, including threats of eye removal. The same doctor who tried to amputate Boone's leg.

Boone, who, is should be mentioned, told Jack not to amputate for essentially, 'the greater good' in the end he knew he wouldn't survive and he'd be a strain on whatever supplies were left.
And it should also be mentioned that the same doctor who IIRC, reluctantly agreed to the torture of Sawyer and protested after it started (see above, "what the hell is wrong with you?"). Or did he say that to Sawyer?

In any case, said doctor also transfused his own blood directly into Boone in an attempt to save him (sacrificed his own life-blood so another could live). Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde?

In any case, said doctor also transfused his own blood directly into Boone in an attempt to save him (sacrificed his own life-blood so another could live). Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde?

Dr./subject?

Just a post to speak in agreement. I thought that is what Danielle called him as well but I thought I probably didn't know what I was talking about...



And Nay85 and belshep. It was while watching the film at my sister's insistence to see the mirror image in the Hanso building, that made me notice the Dr. in the first place. I agree with you, I really think it is as fact as Ray Mullens. I think the fact that their two names in particular ending with M and N is meant to be a parallel and that we are meant to assume that Dr. Marvin's arm is not real...

Now y'all have me wondering about some sort of "personality impantation" type thing. Waaay back, Locke told a story about some dog coming to live at his house after his sister died and that it slept on his sisters bed and disappeared the day his foster mom died. When Sawyer has his camp all messed up by a boar, chases it down and then, after a flashback of killing the wrong man..sawyer looks into the noars eyes and can't kill it. As if the boar is somehow the guy he killed. I always thought that Vincint was odd. The first episode, he runs up to Jack and just stares at him. (Jack's dead father?!??)

The paths this show can take are mind numbing...

And when I think that I only noticed that Dr. Candle looks "asymetric" (spelling?) in that film... :rolleyes:

But yeah, a lot of limbs problems in the show.
Interesting thread :)

*back to reading*

cmcdtv - I posted this link on the Tiberius thread b/c the Tree of Life/Malchut to Ketter mentions.

http://www.projectmind.org/treeoflife.html

The link is from the Project Mind Foundation and is their Project Mind mapped on the Kabbalah Tree of the Sephirot.

The descriptions of various stages made me think of your thread:

CHESED - Compassion, Giving/right arm

GEVURAH - Rigor/left arm

NETZACH - Eternal Present/right leg

HOD - Reverberation, configuration/left leg


ETA : CHOCHMAH - Wisdom/vision, eyes

The left side refers to the femine while the right side refers to the masculine.

Maybe the Tree of the Sephirot/missing limbs have something in common? Your mind works much better than mine - thought you might be able to find a connection.

Punky! That is so interesting!

I'm going to include a link here to my list of missing limbs (http://longlostlist.kazorum.com/longlostlist-about182.html) that I've compiled on the Long Lost List. If y'all see anything missing, let me know (by the way--which leg is Martha missing? Anyone know?).

I'm not the world's most passionate man, but I know I'm a Kinks fan, and so is Char-lee, Char, char, char, char char, leeeeeee

So, sissy todell and I were talking and she was all worked up about the Kinks song Charlie was singing...(From He's Evil, Preservation Act II, the Kinks)

He'll buy you jewels, expensive shoes,

and she was focused on the shoes. I was just happy that they were showing that Charlie was a real Britpop musician singing the Kinks (another band with two brothers who fought) Preservation Act II (sadly I know it, know the songs, but not well enough to have known the following...) everything I quote from will come from this site (http://kinks.it.rit.edu/cgi-bin/MusicSearch.cgi?album=regular/preserv2/album-preserv2)
Well she looked up the lyrics, and this is what she found...

He's got wit he's got charm.
But when he gets rough he'll break your arm.
He's got taste, manners and grace,
But when he gets tough he'll slit your face.
He'll buy you jewels, expensive clothes,

She was freaking out because the word shoes was said by Charlie. There are some shoes references on the site that shall not be named, but suffice it to say we both lost it when we saw the reference to breaking arms!

Well, since Preservation Act II, is the album, before we learn about it, we should learn a little about Preservation Act I. From a site about pop music (http://oakhaus.home.insightbb.com/kinks2.htm) some notes of worth:

Preservation takes the world of the Preservation Society album and posits it as an Edenic England that is being ruined by greedy developers and self-righteous ideologues. One of the characters from that first album, Johnny Thunder, is reintroduced as one of the story's anti-heroes. (The song that introduces him this time, "One of the Survivors," is one of the better entries: rockingly ironic with some genuinely comic lines.) Thunder's nemesis is Mr. Flash, who in the first album comes across as a vaguely leftist union organizer, though he turns into a religious conservative by the time Act II is released. (Hard to tell if that's meant as a commentary on the way that the two demagogic stances blur together – or just sloppy writing.) But the most distinct voice of Act I, primarily because he's been given the best songs, is The Tramp, a distanced Stage Manager observing the goings-on much like the narrator of "Waterloo Sunset.”

and

Where Are They Now?" ("I hope that Charlie Bubbles had a very pleasant flight.")


So that brings us to Preservation Act II, not liked as much, but still with its own merit (http://starling.rinet.ru/music/temp/kinks.html).

The plot itself is actually pretty intelligent as far as rock musicals go: the greedy, venal capitalist Flash is running the nation. The people are sick of his rule, so the Puritan socialist Mr. Black swoops down and leads a revolt against the government. Mr. Black wins, yet it turns out that he's as bad as Flash, if not worse: he wants to turn everybody into automatons who don't indulge in sin and exist only to serve the state. The problem is that Ray doesn't deliver any individually inspired songs; in fact, he never deviates from the plot, which results in an entire album of makeshift songs designed to move the action along.


Another song on Preservation II is Artifical Man (http://kinks.it.rit.edu/cgi-bin/MusicSearch.cgi?song=regular/preserv2/song-artificialman). So here's what Mr. Black has to say in the song:

Let's build an antiseptic world,
Full of artificial people.
Cure all diseases, conquer pain
And monitor the human brain,
And see what thoughts you're thinking.
Observe your feelings,
Secret fears,
Controlling everything you say and do
And we will build a master race
To live within our artificial world.
Tell it to the people all across the land,
We're going to build an artificial man
With the physique of a Tarzan
And the profile of a Cary Grant,
A superior being
Totally made by hand.
Throw out imperfection,
Mould you section by section,
Gonna make you the ultimate creation

Seem familiar? No? what about this?

Push-button artificial man.
Did you ever want to live forever?
Well here's your chance to be a total automaton
'Cos we've improved on God's creation
An outdated homo sapien.
Make you taller if you want it
Make your hair grow longer if you need it.
If it doesn't exist then I guess we can breed it.
There'll be no disagreements,
We'll dedicate our lives to achievements,
And organise your life and keep it totall

I'm sorry it's so long, but the connections seem very interesting to me, and the songs that were chosen by from the Kinks are wierd. It wasn't just to show that Charlie knows the Kinks obscurer stuff, and not just Lola, or to parallel his band with the Kinks, but he changes the words, and it mentions breaking arms, is on an album about a dictatorship under the guise of creating an artificial world. Curing diseases, living forever! I thought it deserved to be mentioned.

The Kinks.. . that's great. Charlie singing as Eko walking up. Goes to nano theory. I think that Ethan, Goodwin were automatons. Ethan showing us his strength and just not willing to stop moving when being buried. Also could explain clones/twins on boat. Love all of the music/lyric clues. Thanks for doing that research for us.

I wonder if the nanobots are looking for spare parts?

WOW! cmcdtv - you and your sister will never cease to amaze me. That is very interesting with the KINKS lyrics!

Speaking of Charlie - and Tiberius' posts refering to Charlatan:


A Charlatan is a person practicing quakery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money or advantage by false pretenses. The word come from French charlatan, a version of "Charley," a seller of medicines who might advertise his presence with music ..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan

Maybe first music bots hear back in 1973/1094 is someone at Dharma playing Preservation, Act 1, Act 2 and they have taken the story as personal history. You can tie almost all lyrics to some part of LOST. Glad Lawrence Welk wasn't on the record player. Could we expand this thought to Patsy and Mama Cass. Maybe sub plot will be include way to stop bots by playing polka tunes round the 'clock. A torture no one can live with.

Maybe first music bots hear back in 1973/1094 is someone at Dharma playing Preservation, Act 1, Act 2 and they have taken the story as personal history. You can tie almost all lyrics to some part of LOST. Glad Lawrence Welk wasn't on the record player. Could we expand this thought to Patsy and Mama Cass. Maybe sub plot will be include way to stop bots by playing polka tunes round the 'clock. A torture no one can live with.

It's by no means the clue to the entire island. However, I think it may be pretty important to Charlie. The Kinks, as I mentioned had two brothers, one considered the musical genius. The song, "He's evil" sung at the time Eko approaches, which I think is meant to throw you off, oh, it's Eko who's evil. The Kinks are also really, really important to modern day Britpop, what Driveshaft would be considered.

It may be that each character has a certain soundtrack or band. Kate, for example always has Patsy Cline in her flashbacks, I'll have to take a look at songs of lost, or songs used in lost and references to song lyrics...(I know it sounds crazy. I do, but I'm ok with that).

What do you know, cmcd? There happens to be a hand-y list (http://longlostlist.kazorum.com/longlostlist-about148.html) right here! And here's part two (http://longlostlist.kazorum.com/longlostlist-about149.html) of that list. Let me know if anything's missing! (HA!)

Just a random thought.

Heard a song this morning. As someone mentioned previously in this thread, you can tie just about any lyrics to the show. What I heard made me think of this thread.

"But I know our filthy hand can wash one another’s
And not one speck will remain"

Symbolic.

Challenging to wash one hand I would presume. The symbolism being that there is only half, or at least only a part that remains to clean up the mess (incident) that was made. For those that remain, the task is now twice as hard and will take even longer due to there being fewer to take part in that task. Most of the original crew that was present at the time of the incident, were either killed, seriously injured, deserted or have been exterminated or taken to another unknown place to keep it all on the hush hush.

I havent had the time to read the entire forum but i think that Candle's injury may have been caused by the "incident" whatever that may be. Also the writers enjoy putting some far reaching fore shadowing, Anything can happen. Maybe the doctor just feels that it is unlucky to move his arm.:76: maybe it talks to him. To back up my mini-theory i think that he said the word "incident" with alot of passion, like he knew exactly what happened, like he was there. Maybe he was at arrow station, and like LIVINLOST said in the last post, he was a part the whole thing. Maybe he was responsible and had to make the stupid orientation videos. I love hearing how he says micro-computer processor in the video, makes me giggle.

On another note, maybe Desmond was taking that shot to prevent someting, the philosophcal types will probly think of something from this. Maybe it had something to do with avoiding another incident, maybe they are some sort of drug ( maybe steroids) to help him be more muscular for some event. I dunno. Hopefully we see desmond again because we need some explanation,or there is another missing splice of video. I wish there is, the video didnt mention that they would have to take something, so maybe it is something he doesnt need. I forgot what the extra splice said.

Also blast doors are only ued for 2 things, Star wars and protecting people from blasts. So maybe The Doc. was stationed in the arrow station and got injured during an explosion, something like i mentioned above. I have never had a chance to rant abut all of this stuff about the hatch so i am sort of liking this.

Again on the subject of torturing people and making them pay. The doc may have been subjected to the disease and it caused his arm to die. Maye thqat was wat rousou, however you spell it, meant when she said one of her team members got the sickness and lost an arm.
Maybe,contradictory to what i said above, that was what my man desmond was taking. An anti-arm-killing island disease drug.

Or he could just have major frostbite.

For me: "This thread is clear" Halelujia. *inhales sharply*:fear2:

The End!!!!

If you don't regularly check the Rebellious Rabbits thread, unforgiven91, you should check it out.
After last week's episode, I made a post about the Kinks and Preservation Act which Livinlost alluded to above. After Beagle1962, in the RR thread did a remarkable interpretation of the relationship between the Kinks albums and Lost. (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=712842&postcount=721) I don't think we're on the wrong track with this thinking. It's really fantastic, and I think you would enjoy it (maybe I'm wrong here, but it's worth a look) The theory that branches from the interpretation is what I've been thinking all along about our Dharma others, and their 'good' intentions. Yes they were originally manipulated by Hanso, but some of their methods in rebellion against him, or perhaps in their newly established order (life without governing control by Hanso, temporarily) have shown a ruthless and manipulative side. Being corrupted.

I think the missing limbs ties into this, perhaps the doctors and others missing limbs are part of hanso's side, fighting their former co-workers? The incident would then be when the scientist rebelling broke out the projects and started fighting hanso and the scientists on his side.

Pure pure speculation based on Kinks lyrics and a web site that shall not be named (go to the rr thread and you'll understand).

Glad you like the thread (or perhaps liked the thread before this post).

beagles post thru tat link was pretty interesting but, i see a smallproblem with the writers basing ideas off of just a story.:serenade:

Hmmm... interesting, about the missing limbs.... any takers on the Biblical admonition that if your limb causes you to sin, cut it off? If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out?

dalas, my sister todell posted this (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=691618&postcount=170) about the passage from Matthew.

The question is do they willingly give up their limbs, or do they lose them in experiments?

Also blast doors are only ued for 2 things, Star wars and protecting people from blasts. So maybe The Doc. was stationed in the arrow station and got injured during an explosion, something like i mentioned above.

Blast doors should seal hard and fast for containment purposes. Maybe Marvin was only able to 'almost' get out of a hatch during the incident and lost his arm when the door came slamming down.

This would parallel nicely with the imagery of Jack test-running the contraption he was going to amputate Boone's leg with.

It would also be nice if they opened a blast door somewhere and saw a skeletal arm laying there.

From S2/Fire + Water: In Charlie's dream/vision...there were some dismembered doll parts in the meat case, and a doll was beheaded by Charlie's father, with a meat cleaver. Interestingly, here is the timing of the dialogue (the transcript says "Butcher", whereas I thought it was implied to be Charlie's dad, Mr. Pace):


BUTCHER [pointing the cleaver at Charlie]: You need a trade.
CHARLIE: Dad?
[The butcher cuts the head off the doll.]


Charlie needs to trade in his head? Or maybe a reference to the Butcher of Manchester serial killer?

There was also a spine/backbone hanging from the ceiling. Ugh. Is there a connection to Jack or Christian (spinal surgeons?).

Even though there was no doctor in the dream/vision...this thread is the lucky recipient.:biggrin:

Hey TR, great points. I need to watch the episode again, as I was doing a subtle Christian impression on Weds.

So, if Charlie and Liam were supposed to be butchers, bred to kill, why isn't Megan special? Why doesn't Dharma or Hanso seem interested in her? Is it possible she is a control for someone else on the island (like Aaron) that they have decided to watch on the outside world? It would conflict with Todell's idea that the projects were brought back to round up the projects and get rid of them in a way that no one would look for them, but her mother's name is Karen. Are we honestly to believe that her daughter wouldn't be special?

Please,always feel free to add missing limbs to this thread. What do all the missing limbs mean, is really the central question here. Second one being, what do all of our doctors know about their significance?

In TTP, my thoughts were the wooden leg helped the author give us the reader the sense that the narrator was still physical when in fact he was not. Raggs said the writers spent considerable amounts of time talking about TTP but he had not read it. I think they follow a similar style O'Nolan used.

For example, Martha and Rays missing limbs may symbolise they are cut off or adrift in thier own personal ways. In both cases they are alone and live quite "cut off" from the world.
Candles missing limb may just be related to the incident and what could have possibly happened there.
Charlie is quite literally going through a period of being "cut off" from the group, due to a mental state of mind.

So in a very similar tradition of O'Nolans work, we are constantly left scratching our heads on understanding similar events used, but with different meanings.

Oh, btw has anyone found any parallels to the dolls Jack came across when he first found the cave? Sory Ive been asking around lol.

So, if Charlie and Liam were supposed to be butchers, bred to kill, why isn't Megan special? Why doesn't Dharma or Hanso seem interested in her? Is it possible she is a control for someone else on the island (like Aaron) that they have decided to watch on the outside world? It would conflict with Todell's idea that the projects were brought back to round up the projects and get rid of them in a way that no one would look for them, but her mother's name is Karen. Are we honestly to believe that her daughter wouldn't be special?

Because of Karen DeGroot...

I thought it was interesting what Karen said about Megan to Charlie:

Karen: I just needed to see her again. Isn't she brilliant?
Charlie: She's beautiful, Karen.
Interesting choice of words, "brilliant"...like you would refer to an invention, or someone's intelligence or talents. Charlie's description seemed more normal.

In TTP, my thoughts were the wooden leg helped the author give us the reader the sense that the narrator was still physical when in fact he was not. Raggs said the writers spent considerable amounts of time talking about TTP but he had not read it. I think they follow a similar style O'Nolan used.

For example, Martha and Rays missing limbs may symbolise they are cut off or adrift in thier own personal ways. In both cases they are alone and live quite "cut off" from the world.
Candles missing limb may just be related to the incident and what could have possibly happened there.
Charlie is quite literally going through a period of being "cut off" from the group, due to a mental state of mind.

So in a very similar tradition of O'Nolans work, we are constantly left scratching our heads on understanding similar events used, but with different meanings.

Oh, btw has anyone found any parallels to the dolls Jack came across when he first found the cave? Sory Ive been asking around lol.

In White Rabbit, eh? Interesting. IIRC the dolls weren't all that damaged and yet in Charlie's dream our doll has its head cut off. hmm. I haven't seen the connection made anywhere, I like it.

And it could be a style that you mention, but I still feel as though the prosthetics are some sort of mark, that identifies them as part of something.

Hello Losties,

Just a thought, when Danielle says "where Montand 'lost' his arm", this could have meant several things - he could have had his arm blown off, he could have lost use of arm, he could have lost a prosthetic arm, etc. Also, I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere, but the word "lost" seems to be used a lot in the show in both literal and figurative senses.

I think that the left/right injuries relate to the yin yang of the i-ching (right is yin/dark while left is yang/light) which the DHARMA symbol is based on. It will be interesting to see if the sides of character injuries change as each person struggles with good/evil.

I think that the left/right injuries relate to the yin yang of the i-ching (right is yin/dark while left is yang/light) which the DHARMA symbol is based on. It will be interesting to see if the sides of character injuries change as each person struggles with good/evil.
Melissa: I really like that notion! Does this mean the left side is bad? Interestingly, the origin of the word "sinister" is the latin for "left" (sinestra).

Since we're looking to see if there is any significance to the right/left limbs - I made notes during the first season of the episodes that opened with an "eye" - Maybe this will have some meaning in the future:


ETA - Checked scripts & Screen caps and they don't match each other. Example: Script for Walkabout says scene opens with Locke's left eye - however screen cap clearly shows it is his right eye. Screen cap may be reversed - have to check against DVD. Will make corrections

Jack - Left Eye
Lock - Left Eye
Claire - Left Eye
Jin - Left Eye
Desmond - Left Eye ...(Thanks LostLaura!)

Boone - Right Eye
Michael - Right Eye
Baby (Aaron) - Right Eye

I stopped making a note of this - there may be more. Will check to see if I left anyone out.[/B][B]

In that spirit, Punky, the missing limbs:

Ray Mullen - Right arm
HIbbs - Left ring finger
Martha Toomey - Left leg
Candle (possibly) - Left arm

Season 2:

Desmond- left eye

Just checked all the others except 23rd and F+W, but I'm 99% sure neither of those started with an eye. 23rd started with the kids playing soccer. F+W started.... with bunny slippers? I think it's just Desmond for S2.

So, Losties with "left" issues are evil? Are good? Will die soon/sometime? I like the people listed with left eyes showing as good people, however, Aaron with the right eye makes me wonder...he throws off my theory as I perceive him as a goodie...maybe left means...TRANSHUMAN...and right means regular human...:confused:

Jack - Left Eye
Lock - Left Eye
Claire - Left Eye
Jin - Left Eye
Desmond - Left Eye ...(Thanks LostLaura!)

Boone - Right Eye
Michael - Right Eye
Baby (Aaron) - Right Eye


In that spirit, Punky, the missing limbs:

Ray Mullen - Right arm
HIbbs - Left ring finger
Martha Toomey - Left leg
Candle (possibly) - Left arm

So, Losties with "left" issues are evil? Are good? Will die soon/sometime? I like the people listed with left eyes showing as good people, however, Aaron with the right eye makes me wonder...he throws off my theory as I perceive him as a goodie...maybe left means...TRANSHUMAN...and right means regular human...:confused:

Okay, what if the left v. right is not about good v. bad (because we know that is a very sticky subject when it comes to Lost...), but what if it's left brain v. right brain. Left is linear, logical, analytical, unemotional. Right is spatial, creative, mystical, intuitive, emotional.
To me, this works for Jack being left and Michael being right. Aaron being right because he is the son of Thomas who was a painter (like Michael). I definitely see Jin as a left. I can see Boone as a right. Unfortunately, I definitely see Locke and Claire as rights... So that doesn't work. And I don't know about the missing limbs people, how they would fit into that....
Anyway, it doesn't totally work, but I just wanted to throw it out there as another left v. right possibility...

ETA: Punky, when you listed Jack as Left eye, that was for the Pilot 1 episode, right? We open on Young Jack's eye for White Rabbit. Which eye is that?

I'm pretty sure that yin is left and yang is right.

I would just reviewing some of the Mirrors (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=11039&page=56) thread and found this


Also, if you are interested in mirror image and reversal, read early Kant. His first main question was, "Why is something left-handed and not right-handed?"


I'm going to look into Kant for awhile and if no one posts in the interim, I'll just ETA this post.

ETA: Okay, I stink. I've been looking, but everything I find is too scientific and philosophical for me. I just can't follow it. And I'm only finding modern ruminations on Kant. I can't find Kant. Stupid internet. I'm not searching on it well today. If anyone knows anything on this subject or is clearly better at searching than me, go for it.

Damon's a huge geek so maybe he took the missing limb thing from Star Wars (which itself took the significance of losing a limb from some tradition... possibly African in origin.)

Basically, in Star Wars, anytime someone loses a limb in signifiies a turning point in that person's power and/or persona... usually for the worse.

Thus, Annakin Skywalker loses his arm (above the elbow) and begins his downward turn to Darth Vader. his turn is completed when Obi Wan Kanobi slices off his three remaining limbs. Thus as Vader he's more machine than man and his ability to use the force (say as Force Lightning) is diminished.

Luke loses the same arm (also above the elbow) in Empire Strikes Back... the hint throughout the next movie is that he will himself turn to the darkside

Mace Windu (Samuel L. Jackson) loses the same arm (again above the elbow) at the hands of Annakin. It marks Annakin's full turn and symbolizes Mace's loss of influence over Annakin to the Emperor which, then immediately leads to Mace's death.
<hr>
I also just realized if Jack had amputated Boone's leg it would have been a significant turning point for him in the wrong direction. Leaving it be and letting him die without the further and needless trauma of losing a leg, ironically, preserved his role as The Healer.

very interesting CrimsonRabbit -- to add to your thoughts

Let me add that I found it fascinating that Sayid threatened Henry's finger in One of Them, but ultimately did not cut it off (is that what he was threatening to do?). Reminded me of Jack and Boone's leg. Instead of having their limbs cut off, the losties seem to be in the position of power to take the limb...

Are the losties being tested and by not amputating someone else's limb are they passing that test or failing? Are they making the right choice? And what does that mean for the folks who are missing limbs?

very interesting CrimsonRabbit -- to add to your thoughts

Let me add that I found it fascinating that Sayid threatened Henry's finger in One of Them, but ultimately did not cut it off (is that what he was threatening to do?). Reminded me of Jack and Boone's leg. Instead of having their limbs cut off, the losties seem to be in the position of power to take the limb...

Are the losties being tested and by not amputating someone else's limb are they passing that test or failing? Are they making the right choice? And what does that mean for the folks who are missing limbs?

This limb discussion reminds me of what I read earlier today in the post/repost about the Amanti (sp?) theory that stems from Egypt. Didn't it say that people with missing limbs are evil?

Let me add that I found it fascinating that Sayid threatened Henry's finger in One of Them, but ultimately did not cut it off (is that what he was threatening to do?).
It seemed to me that he was threatening to squeeze it and/or break it, rather than cut it off, since he was using pliers.

Yes, but if you squeeze hard enough, what will happen?

Owwww! I see your point...

It seemed to me that he was threatening to squeeze it and/or break it, rather than cut it off, since he was using pliers.
Yes, but if you squeeze hard enough, what will happen?

Yuck, yuck, yuck....:sick:

Anyway, your description reminds me of the untimely and horrific death of Sceve. Every bone in his hands broken, or whatever the quote is from Kate.
Just wanted to point that out... must go back to puking now... :rolleyes:

That is a great point Lost Laura.

What I found interesting is that Jack was willing to supervise Sayid torturing Sawyer before they even knew there were others, but freaking out about Sayid torturing someone who very may well be an other, especially after the whole Ethan incident.

It's ok to stick bamboo under the scavenger's fingernails for some asthma medicine even though there's a natural solution as Sun demonstrates, but it's not ok to torture someone who just happens to turn up in the woods claiming to have landed here after you've created an army to fight these bad guys and you were almost killed by Ethan.

the man is sick. he needs to find his father.

That is a great point Lost Laura.

What I found interesting is that Jack was willing to supervise Sayid torturing Sawyer before they even knew there were others, but freaking out about Sayid torturing someone who very may well be an other, especially after the whole Ethan incident.

It's ok to stick bamboo under the scavenger's fingernails for some asthma medicine even though there's a natural solution as Sun demonstrates, but it's not ok to torture someone who just happens to turn up in the woods claiming to have landed here after you've created an army to fight these bad guys and you were almost killed by Ethan.

the man is sick. he needs to find his father.

You are so right. What the heck is up with him??? I've been ignoring all threads with titles like "Jack is annoying now" but he is certainly WEIRD now. He's not even reverting... he's like.... very hypocritical or something. I was pretty confused by his actions during this episode. Army=good but torture=bad...
well actually now that I typed that out, I think there are many many people who feel that way (hence the FB plot where the Americans needed someone tortured, wouldn't do it themselves so had the Iraqi do it)... so now that I've typed that out (thinking as I type...), maybe Jack is meant to represent that American mentality (which I am not being critical or judgemental of, just trying to put two-and-two together).

Um, hum, I think I just confused myself :rolleyes: and now we are far away from missing limbs, huh? Well at least he's a doctor!

Not too far... Jack watched as Sayid tortured Sawyer. He would have let him rip Sawyer's finger off to get the truth. And actually that's one of my major questions. I thought it was pretty interesting that tptb allowed him to witness and approve of that, it goes against all of his oathes. but now, when there is some weasly looking fellow (my own commentary of course) claiming not to be an other, and the one person (imo, and iirc) who hasn't lied since being on the island (sayid) is sure he is, he's concerned about how he's being treated. Are we supposed to assume he learned from the Sawyer incident, and has grown? Or are we to assume as Sayid has, that he has forgotten the true enemy. He's been so wrapped up in the hatch and with the power plays that are going on that's he's forgotten the true enemy. He's no longer following his own advice, live together die alone.

he just seems really irrational. I don't find him annoying or even his actions out of character. Is this why Christian told him all that time ago not to make a choice because he is so easily conflicted, as opposed to Sayid who knows who he is and how his choices made him so.

I don't know if Jack was even thinking about the Sawyer torture during last night's eppy... he does seem irrational, like he is jumping from emotion to emotion, depending on whatever is happening at the moment.

I thought Dr Candle's problem might of happened from "the incident"

Forgive the minor spoiler, but did anyone catch the recent clue from Kristin re Zeke?
Friendly Mr. Zeke may have something in common with Tobias Fünke [from Arrested Development]. Zeke has hair plugs? You are sorta, kinda on the right track.
Makes me wonder if Zeke once had some sort of implant or prosthesis. Like maybe a glass eye...

could be bigmouth, but i think she would have compared him to(note those not obsessed with AD, the secondquestionable word is a made up word from Arrested Development, I'm not calling Zeke a sodomite) Buster Bluth, considering his unfortunate seal incident, although that would be too obvious. Was Zeke an analrapist too? maybe he was a psychiatrist before, just like Tobias, or he was a pirate
eta to add other similarities. AD is my favorite comedy, ever.

cmcd: D'oh--I should know better than to make AD references around you or todell! In all seriousness, though, I think my speculation still has legs because...
...the hint refers to hair plugs, which implies some sort of artificial implant to me. Could Zeke have something else implanted in him, like maybe animal DNA? Perhaps Zeke's Others were originally experimental subjects.

I also wondered if the clue might actually be a reference to Zeke's ludicrously fake eyebrows. Then I remembered that Stan Sitwell is the one with alopecia.
PS: Buster is Dr. Candle!

cmcd: D'oh--I should know better than to make AD references around you or todell! In all seriousness, though, I think my speculation still has legs because...
...the hint refers to hair plugs, which implies some sort of artificial implant to me. Could Zeke have something else implanted in him, like maybe animal DNA? Perhaps Zeke's Others were originally experimental subjects.

I also wondered if the clue might actually be a reference to Zeke's ludicrously fake eyebrows. Then I remembered that Stan Sitwell is the one with alopecia.
PS: Buster is Dr. Candle!

About zeke, true, true, or he could be the mole too much knowledge about Arrested Development

And does that mean the Dr. Candle will end up teaching everyone a lesson?

And THAT'S why you DON'T open the HATCH! :)

Is mr. Wendel Dr. Candle?

I've figured it out!

It's their way of saying Lost costs an arm and a leg (and a glass eye) to make.

cmcdtv!!! Check out this thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=39772), where the photo of one of the doctors in the medical bunker is compared to one of Henry Gale in the Swan armory...the OP thinks it's him !!! I tend to agree that it looks like it could be him...so do we now have another identified doctor on the Island? Not associated with a missing limb though (yet).
And really, no proof that this individual is a doctor, although he is suited up for surgery, and Claire was told that she was going to be operated on.

I was just looking at that Tabby! I think it's really interesting, considering my morbid fascination with Drs and tortures shown on this show. the tables are turned.

I think most of the others that we've seen are doctors or almost doctors, Ethan, Goodwin, Henry, Zeke, they could all be surgeons and psychiatrists and that is the significance of Desmond and Libby not becoming doctors, they are some sort of control on an experiment on these doctors, Bigmouth posted here somewhere that:

Zeke shares something in common with Tobias Funke of Arrested Development. I didn't see the whole spoiler clue but knowing all there is to know about Tobias Funke, I really think it is that Zeke lost his medical license, just like Tobias, or was a former psychatrist. Although as I type this I think, of course! Tobias wanted to be an actor. BM help me out, any of these compete with your hair plugs idea?

sorry for the whole AD tirade, but yeah. So, we've got these doctors, participating in some really strange experiments. Could this be an experiment on those doctors, to determine how far they could be pushed in the pursuit of a greater good, what their limits are? What would be the point, not sure.
Did Claire seem like she was on a mild hallucinogen? She was a little too happy and too pleasant to be on just a sedative. Reminds me of mkultra...

eta comments about libby and desmond

Interesting about Libby and Desmond being controls for the experiments...

I can't believe I didn't even mention Ethan as a doctor in my previous post!


Did Claire seem like she was on a mild hallucinogen? She was a little too happy and too pleasant to be on just a sedative. Reminds me of mkultra...


Yeah, she seemed very loopy and also child-like...and Ethan was talking to her as if she were a child. I've been wondering and many others have been posting, wondering what drug she could be on that would not endanger her unborn child. And with a search you can find some threads alluding to "Soma", as in Brave New World and anthropological connections. Also, she'd been brainwashed, IMHO, with her "I am sure", "I have to give him to them", etc.

And speaking of hallucinations, recall that there has been speculation about perception and LOST...and with the pretty baby room and it being dirty a few days later, maybe Claire's perception was what we saw (in both cases). Her drugged, happy, expectant view of the room, and her disappointed, frustrated view.

I agree!

Are all the missing/injured limbs mentioned on the left side? I remember Sam Tooney's wife had a missing left leg, Dr. Candle's left arm is the fake/paralyzed one, When Locke's scar is shown, it is on the left side. Which leg did Michael break? Which of Boone's legs was Jack going to attempt to amputate? I can't remember. Could this be significant in any way?


Just so you know, an alternate way to describe the left side of something is "sinister" according tot he heraldic tradition.


"SINISTER:
ADJECTIVE: 1. Suggesting or threatening evil: a sinister smile. 2. Presaging trouble; ominous: sinister storm clouds. 3. Attended by or causing disaster or inauspicious circumstances. 4. On the left side; left. 5. Heraldry Situated on or being the side of a shield on the wearer's left and the observer's right.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English sinistre, unfavourable, from Old French, from Latin sinister, on the left, unlucky."1 (http://www.dpjs.co.uk/moon.html#1)
The etymology of the word "sinister" suggests an association between The Left and something indirectly Satanic. This association was clear in Christianity and especially during Medieval Times.


So you have multiple people without a "sinister" limb. It could have religious implications such as purification and killing off the evil, etc.

So I guess the Zeke-Tobias thing is resolved now... They Others are doctors who moonlight as actors and wear prosthetic hair.

I thought everyone might be missing some parts for genetic material...still thinking they're might be a "cloning" kind of angle..maybe that was one of dharma's projects...

I had always known about the missing limb thing...but when pointed out and highlighted, there has to be relevance to the story somehow. Otherwise, TPTB have a fetish for amputees.

I had always known about the missing limb thing...but when pointed out and highlighted, there has to be relevance to the story somehow. Otherwise, TPTB have a fetish for amputees.

Which I suspect about the 24 producers, but not Lost:smile:

Just so you know, an alternate way to describe the left side of something is "sinister" according tot he heraldic tradition.

So you have multiple people without a "sinister" limb. It could have religious implications such as purification and killing off the evil, etc.

Just to elaborate a bit on the point that koralis made: Sinistra still means "left" in modern-day Italian. After the birth of Christ especially, the left side is portrayed as the "sinister" side. If you look at artistic depictions of Jesus, Judas is always on his left. Pictures of the Madonna and Child always have Jesus to the right, Mary to the left (not because Mary is bad, but because Jesus is "better"). In wedding portraits, marriage dyptichs, and other portraits of couples, the husband is always on the right, the wife on the left (again, because the husband is "better"). In family portraits, the heir (firstborn son) is almost always portrayed at the right hand of his father.

Interestingly though, the left hand is also considered to deal with love. The wedding ring is traditionally worn on the left ring finger because ancient Romans thought that an artery led directly from that finger to the heart. All these people missing their left limbs ... lack of love? Go figure!

Interestingly though, the left hand is also considered to deal with love. The wedding ring is traditionally worn on the left ring finger because ancient Romans thought that an artery led directly from that finger to the heart. All these people missing their left limbs ... lack of love? Go figure!

Well, I think Europeans wear wedding bands on the right hand? I know Israelis do.
The idea of the right-hand-man being a good, helpful person comes from Benjamin (Benyamin in Hebrew) in the Hebrew Bible. "Ben" means son of and "yamin" means right-hand.

Just to elaborate a bit on the point that koralis made: Sinistra still means "left" in modern-day Italian. After the birth of Christ especially, the left side is portrayed as the "sinister" side. If you look at artistic depictions of Jesus, Judas is always on his left. Pictures of the Madonna and Child always have Jesus to the right, Mary to the left (not because Mary is bad, but because Jesus is "better"). In wedding portraits, marriage dyptichs, and other portraits of couples, the husband is always on the right, the wife on the left (again, because the husband is "better"). In family portraits, the heir (firstborn son) is almost always portrayed at the right hand of his father.

Interestingly though, the left hand is also considered to deal with love. The wedding ring is traditionally worn on the left ring finger because ancient Romans thought that an artery led directly from that finger to the heart. All these people missing their left limbs ... lack of love? Go figure!

Slightly OT, but maybe not...

The whole left is bad and right is good thing reminds me of how "in the olden days", kids who were naturally left-handed, well, they were forced to learn how to do everything with their right hand. My maternal grandmother was born a lefty, but she said that they made her switch when she was little. It was said back then that people that wrote with their left hand had some sort of mental illness. Also, my father was ambidextrous (sp). He wrote with his righthand, but played sports with his lefthand. And he was an excellent athlete and had very neat handwriting. Go figure. We think that maybe he was a natural lefty, but had it suggested to him to try writing with his righthand...strange...and my sister is a lefty...and very normal, healthy and successful...go figure!!! :)

As well as the one armed man in Twin Peaks the show also featured a club called 'One eyed Jacks'

And don't forgot that when the one armed man cut his arm off (so he could redeem himself and become 'good' ) he created 'the man from another place' who was a compatriot of Bob the 'monster' of Twin peaks who Dale is trying to capture, and weve got our own monster on Lost

yeah cloning keeps popping up in my thoughts too..like those twins on the boat?

did you also see one of the attackers of claire in her (dream) has a huge scar running the circumfrence of his wrist...it looks like the hand has been sewn on. its fast but very clear in the freezeframes.

Lockdown: we had another close-up of an eye. Locke.
I'm almost positive it's his right eye, but I'm not sure. It's an extreme close-up, so it could be either one... I think.

ETA: Whoops, and it should be mentioned that Locke's right thigh is injured.

Sounds like Mr. Must-get-a-hand and gang, have paid an arm and a leg for their involvement with dharma and sometimes more.

Kate's mom had a strange rash on her right hand, maybe this was the cause of her illness.

In "Whatever the Case May Be" there is an interesting clue about infection leading to cutting off of limbs in the conversation between Jack and Sawyer over the case:

Sawyer : I'm just going to give it to you?
Jack : Yeah.
Sawyer : Why would I want to do that?
Jack : Cephalexin.
Sawyer : Yeah, go on?
Jack : That's the antibiotic I've been giving you for the knife wound in your arm. You're right in the middle of the treatment cycle now. If I keep giving you the pills you're going to be right as rain. But I'm going to stop giving you the pills and for 2 days you're going to think you're all good, then it's going to start to itch. The day after that the fever's going to come and you're going to start seeing red lines running up and down your arm. A day or 2 after that... you'll beg me to take the case... just to cut off your arm.
Sawyer : That's a nice story, Jack, and even if it were true I don't think you could do it.
Jack : You're wrong.

Jack also had the scene where he considers chopping off Boone's leg and then stops at Boone's request. Jack's emphatic "You are wrong" to Sawyer makes me think that he has seen exactly what he is describing and let it happen in the past, possibly in Thailand. Perhaps he either withheld medicine from an enemy to get information, or had to care for someone when no medicine was available, and in either case ended up removing a limb.

How does this relate to the island? Well, Danielle's team "got sick" and Montaigne lost his arm. Danielle later thinks Aaron may be "infected." In Henry's story, he says his wife got a "fever" and then died. I'm thinking there is some imunity experimentation going on that went awry and resulted in lost limbs or deaths in some way similar to what Jack described. Maybe Danielle killed her team, not just to stop the spread of the sickness, but to put them out of their misery.

When it starts happening again, Jack will be the one to recognize the problem and know best how to solve it. How? My hunch is with treefrogs ;) But Sawyer will have to be sacrificed because there is one too few treefrogs to go around.

How does this relate to the island? Well, Danielle's team "got sick" and Montaigne lost his arm. Danielle later thinks Aaron may be "infected." In Henry's story, he says his wife got a "fever" and then died. I'm thinking there is some imunity experimentation going on that went awry and resulted in lost limbs or deaths in some way similar to what Jack described. Maybe Danielle killed her team, not just to stop the spread of the sickness, but to put them out of their misery.

In other words...

Aegrescit medendo

The remedy is worse than the disease

Henry's story is crap though, there's no evidence the real Henry Gale had a wife, unless she's still alive and running around on the island somewhere, but I see your point, he did say specifically she got sick and died, whoever he is....

i'm not sure about this, but i think the detective boone spoke to about his sister's domestic violence issues had a glass eye. i could swear one was brown and the other blue, and i don't think that happens naturally.
100%
and locke has a scar over his right eye...

ottoparts,

I agree that I think the detective in the story had a glass eye. However, it is possible. to have two different colored eyes naturally.

See here (http://ask.yahoo.com/20020724.html) for some information.

Henry's story is crap though, there's no evidence the real Henry Gale had a wife, unless she's still alive and running around on the island somewhere, but I see your point, he did say specifically she got sick and died, whoever he is....

First, because of the message founded by Sayid I don't think that the real Henry's wife is on the island.

But i'm quite convinced that Fenry has an experience of the famous desease.

First, because of the message founded by Sayid I don't think that the real Henry's wife is on the island.

But i'm quite convinced that Fenry has an experience of the famous desease.

Definitely, though Fenry does'nt seem as concerned about the sickness as Desmond was, he knows a lot more than he's letting on...

We had'nt seen the message on the $20 bill when I posted that, at the time the only evidence we had of Henry's wife was Fenry's word, now we know for sure that his wife was'nt with him on the balloon trip, the only reason Fenry brought it up was as a cover story for the grave...

Johnny, I guess I'll have to start calling you "RebelRebel" in honor of another Two colored eye singer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowie)

I think Dr. Brooks, the psychiatrist is working with the Others on the outside. Henry also looks like that doctor in Claire's flashback. I am more and more convinced that the Drs. in this thread title are as important as those individuals with missing limbs, so it seems I picked the right name for this thread...

cmcd: I think you're right, though I think their complicity (at least, Dr. Brooks) may have been unconscious (i.e., they were manipulated themselves). Still, no question that doctors are figures of authority (see the Milgram experiment) and feature rather prominently in the show. Didn't Ethan dress in a white lab coat during some scenese in Maternity Leave?

PS: I know this is impossible to prove, but I could swear one of the doctors in Maternity Leave was Jack's dad...