anyone else gettin some interesting emails from candle and the snowman??

think they're comin in from the kingcross state police site. If you're not gettin them, let me know and I can post the replys here for you to read.

Presumably we have to wait until countdown has reached 04:00 (it shows 21:00 now) and only the numbers will be accepted. As Locke told.
.
So I take it you're on button duty now? Ack.:biggrin:

Yes, I am. Waiting for my favourite co-button-pusher Desmond. :smile:

/shredder off

Haven't gotten any emails. Please post, if you can.

I received them. They are related to the King Cross State Police/MrClucks/OceanicWorldAir family of sites. The most recent one from Marvin Candle:

Dear Agent,
Now that I am in hiding it is very difficult for me to get access to the
email portal. I may need to have the snowman handle all of my correspondence
from my laboratory in Zanzibar. Also be on the lookout for those working with
Alvar. An alert agent sent me this link today and it chilled my blood:

http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=226589

If Alvar finds out what we are up to it could ruin everything.

One last bit of knowledge before I go away... Many of you have asked what I
meant when I warned you "Don't be fooled by the horse."

The Black Horse is much like the Polar Bear, the Shark, Wet Walt and 'The
Monster'. The island has the ability to produce things for you that can be seen
by others that is either a comfort, a clue, or a horror.

I will have the snowman email you soon.

Be Safe. Stay Smart and Keep Me in Your Thoughts.

--
Marvin

//keep your ear on the scanner//an agent has the second half of the torn
note//lars is alvar//

----
Delete your King Cross State Police Account:
http://polar.kingcrossstatepolice.com/msr.cfm

the snowman's email:

Hey there kiddies.. It's the snowman.

Just wanted to let you knoow what will be going down here in the next few weeks.

I am stationed at Dr. C's lab in Zanzibar and will try to keep his intranet
updated. He has been adding a lot of items to his "Threat Matrix" in the past
few days.

Alos.. you might have noticed that the updates happen at odd hours.. for 1 thing
I am in africa and the time thng is differnet here than in Denmark and B I am
also pretty frickin' busy working on other stuff that is frankly moore importnat
than giving a bunch of "agents' some data.. But I can play along too.

And don't ask me questions.. ok.. I don't konw where the doctor is.. I am not
sure what this whold island thing is.. ok..All I know is that the doc is mixed
up in something pretty big and he has me looking over the Life Extension stuff.

I get a coded message from time to time and will try to keep you in the loop if
I can.

Oh and the delete link at the bottom is for you "agents" who can't take it
anymore and want to get a life and go see the sun and stuff. Seriously try some
fresh air. Hell come visit me and we will do some scuba and chase all these
damned red colobus monkeys.

l8r,

the snowman


----
Delete your King Cross State Police Account:

And this is the Marvin Candle email that arrived on Wed. that has made people think its official:

Dear Agent,
I know you are seeking much knowledge and I wish I could answer all of your questions.

Somethings I can tell you -

* Eko will find an important discovery in the bible. Watch it at your own risk and please do not use the computer for contacting the outside world.
* Kate will talk to us about Wayne. Don't be fooled by the horse.
* Walt + Computer = Mystery (that is all I can say about that).
* Kate's Dad will explode.

I must go into hiding for several days if not longer. I will try to contact you soon and will update my secure intranet as much as possible. Please don't be fooled by the lies Alvar (Lars) tries to feed you.. Don't trust his lies. I tried to stop him but he was too powerful and I lost the use of my arm.

http://www.kingcrossstatepolice.com/images/found_alvar_note.jpg


Be Safe and Keep Me in Your Thoughts.


--
Marvin

----
Delete your King Cross State Police Account:
http://polar.kingcrossstatepolice.com/msr.cfm

I tend to not be a naysayer about most of these sites, but the thing about that last email is either they have inside information, or they read insiderscoop's spoilers. I don't know. If you enjoy these sites, they're worth a look. Interestingly, they attack Lars. I think because the story from the marvincandle site would contradict their story. If you can follow that line of thought. But who knows.

Speaking of marvincandle.com, they've changed the invisi text again:

Vi kan selv ændre odds for at få et længere liv. Ana od ti od ti

miyya iteration thamanya iteration egry iteration besoraa iteration ma'assalama
Dovenskab går foran og armod følger lige efter. And the rune image is down there, instead of teh Japanese(?) Korean (?) that was before.

Interesting when you let the clock go to 0000

heehee if you used an apple II way back when, then you might recognize the chatbot.
good luck!
-lxicon

heehee, I don't need any special computer to recognize a chatbot.

For your skills: My Mozilla doesn't provide any sound, yesterday the site wasn't refreshed automatically (timer frozen --> F5).

With IE it's working well, except for the answers :angry:

Good work, I really had lot of fun with my excercises. :chair:

Namaste. :ntworthy:

marvincandle has changed yet again. This time when you click the entry link, instead of getting all the numbers with links, you receive this:

As you may know, I have moved a few times the last few years. I left København for Narvik. Then to a small place in the middle of Sweden and finally to Tyranga.

Revelation draws nearer...

Hvad skal du gøre for at få evigt liv?
Dine børn, andres unger.
Andres unger, dine børn.

Mange tak.

Farvel sålænge.

The Danish translates (roughly) to:

What shall you do to get perpetual life? Yours kids , else's brood. Else's brood , yours kids. Thank you very much. Goodbye sålænge.

MC's invisi message has changed again:


Vi kan selv ændre odds for at få et længere liv.

The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
Fret not thyself because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place,
and it shall not be. The meek shall inherit the earth.
Their inheritance shall be for ever.

Dovenskab går foran og armod følger lige efter. The first part translates to (again, rather roughly):

Vi can be themselves transform odds to get a longish life.

and the last part:

Dovenskab goes ahead and poverty consequences immediately after.

And the symbol is a Masonic Square and Compass (http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsmasoniccompass.htm) with a G inside of it.

The compass and square are architect's tools, and symbolize God as the architect of the universe, among other things.

As measuring instruments, the tools represent judgement and discernment. The two symbols together form a hexagram, the union of earth with the heavens, matter and mind, etc. The compass, which is used to draw circles, represents the realm of the spiritual- eternity. The angle measures the square, the symbol of earth and the realm of the material. Together, they represent the convergence of matter and spirit, and the convergence of earthly and spiritual responsibilities.



I'm starting to wonder about the Oceanicworldair/Kingscrossstatepolice/mrclucks stuff. Apparently, the folks who frequent the sites are receiving interesting emails from the sites. II've registered with both Oceanicworldair.com and Kingcross, and so far nothing bad has happened to me... so it's fun and worth a look. Just FYI. But I'm still not convinced that they are for real.

It's my understanding that the kingscrossstatepolice.com site is associated with The Delta Park Project...deltaparkproject.com. I don't know if they are approved by/part of TPTB or not. They (DPP) do talk-radio type podcasts and have been discussing LOST epis on them. They also cover other shows and topics. I could be wrong, but that is what I determined when I looked into it. The hosts' names are Jason and Anna. I didn't join anything or request to get emails. Apparently someone called the phone# (from kings cross) and got a tape of a guy hollering LOST-ish gibberish.
:smile:

No doubt, Tabby. I agree that the sites are set up to direct traffic to the podcasts. They also recently gave the "details" on how Marvin lost his arm, but the dates were all wrong, and it just didn't make any sense.

marvincandle.com still intrigues me. The invisi text has changed. Again.

Vi kan selv ændre odds for at få et længere liv. Dine børn, andres unger.

exoteric esoteric
Neither before nor after ... was there a king like him who turned to ... as he did -— with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his strength, in accordance with all the Law of ...

Dovenskab går foran og armod følger lige efter.

The Bible passage is from 2 Kings 23 (http://www.tniv.info/bible/passagesearch.php?passage_request=2%20Kings%2023&tniv=yes) (Hey...didn't Tiberius post (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=642613&highlight=Kings#post642613) something about that recently?) "Neither before nor after Josiah was there a king like him who turned to the LORD as he did—with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his strength, in accordance with all the Law of Moses."

Exoteric Esoteric (http://www.kheper.net/topics/esoteric_and_exoteric.htm):

Esoteric means the "inner" (eso-), in the sense of the inner consciousness; the contemplative, mystical or meditative transpersonal perspective. This is something different from the ordinary everyday understanding of things, and can only be understood by intuition or higher mental or spiritual faculties.

The opposite of Esoteric is Exoteric, which means the "outer" (exo-), i.e. the outer or surface or everyday consciousness. This includes both the scientific-materialistic and the conventional (or literal) religious perspective. As it is based on the everyday understanding of things, and does not require any transformation of consciousness (and indeed considers any such transformation to be harmful), it assumes that the everyday mind alone can understand Reality. (Things are not always that simple though, because in order to do, say, quantum physics one requires a mathematical intuition not shared by many).

Central to the distinction between Esoteric and Exoteric is that of states of consciousness. An Exoteric philosophy or religion as one which is based on the normal waking state of consciousness, or a modified state of consciousness which is still pretty close to the normal waking state. Any aspiration beyond the ordinary state of existence is discouraged. For example, according to the religious person, "God created/loves you just as you are", so who are you to question what God has ordained for you by striving for some higher state of consciousness? While according to the sceptical Materialist, there is no higher state beyond the rational mind anyway (all non-rational states of consciousness being delusionary).

In contrast, all true Esotericism is Gnostic. That is, it is based on Higher Knowledge, or Gnosis, to use the Greek term. Gnosis is a much superior way of understanding than Reason. Reason stumbles around with premises and logical arguments, and uses these in its own way, without regard for higher truth. With reason alone, you can equally prove or disprove any statement. Certainly, used properly, reason is an invaluable aid to understanding and approaching the Truth. But used improperly, it can cunningly justify any statement or argument, no matter how patently false. It is through this negative use of reason that the inferior religious and sceptical materialistic philosophies are able to flourish.

"Vi kan selv ændre odds for at få et længere liv." = " Vi can be themselves transform odds to get a longish life." (We can transform the odds to give ourselves long life? Maybe?)

"Dine børn, andres unger." = "Your kids, else's (others) brood."

"Dovenskab går foran og armod følger lige efter." = "Dovenskab goes ahead and. poverty consequences immediately after." (What the heck does Dovenskab mean? Anyone?)

(What the heck does Dovenskab mean? Anyone?)
It might be "Accidia", the 2nd deadly sin. Envy? (quick googling, not sure)

ETA: sorry IF the above is wrong, having trouble finding translation

if coupled with tibs clue, har megiddo is indeed looking to be more figurative than literal

(What the heck does Dovenskab mean? Anyone?)

My online dictionary Danish-German says Faulheit, Trägheit for Dovenskab, which means in English laziness, sloth / sluggishnessless, spiritlessness - one of the 7 deadly sins.

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins)

Read about the demon Belphegor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belphegor).

My online dictionary Danish-German says Faulheit, Trägheit for Dovenskab, which means in English laziness, sloth / sluggishnessless, spiritlessness - one of the 7 deadly sins.

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins)

Read about the demon Belphegor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belphegor).

That's interesting, Old Europe. Belphegor sounds a bit like Mephistopheles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephistopheles), the demon that temps Faustus (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=636018&highlight=faust#post636018) in his quest for immortality.

Thought I'd show y'all this, in case you missed it, folks on the "What Kate Did" board claim that this image (http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hansomissingpicture28cq.jpg) was up on thehansfoundation.org very briefly, and taken back down again. I post this with some hesitation, because I haven't heard where it was found, how long it was up, etc., etc., etc. but it's fun to look at!

And an update on the Oceanicworldair/kingcrossstatepolice sites: Vincent Madison, the "Chairman" of Oceanic World Air went onto lost-forums.com (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10523&page=117) and admitted that he's a fan site.

Kinmar, I gotta be honest, cause that's the way I am. I am not a LOST insider (sorry folks), but a great fan like all of you.

I do think that I am able to provide a medium to introduce theories and questions that will lead us all to figuring out some of the mysteries of the show as well as making it a more enjoyable experience.

There are some people I get info from who may know real stuff, but it is hard to know sometimes.

I do the best I can... So, there ya have it!

marvincandle.com has changed the invisible text again.



Vi kan selv ændre odds for at få et længere liv. Andres unger, dine børn.

esoteric ravla no purgatory yes catharsis osnah
with all his soul and with all his strength, in accordance with all the law of ...



Ravla (http://www.ravlakhempur.com/ravla.html)
The title ‘Ravla’ in Rajasthan refers to the home of a village chieftain”. In earlier days, the Ravla was the focal point of the entire village. Functions such as village welfare, collection of taxes, administration of law and order, and the initiation of festivals took place in the Ravla.

And "purgatory no catharsis yes" is quite interesting to me (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=652322#post652322)...it's a great answer to all those who are so fixated on the "They're all in purgatory!" theory.

And "purgatory no catharsis yes" is quite interesting to me (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=652322#post652322)...it's a great answer to all those who are so fixated on the "They're all in purgatory!" theory.

cool! i never liked the idea of them all being dead. it's too easy to just say "oh they were dead! that explains everything" LOST doesn't usually take the easy route through a story, and if it seems obvious that something is about to happen it's probably not going to. that's kinda the point of good storytelling.

I believe that the Island is a figment of an austistic kid's imagination that is playing with a snow globe.
23

Marvincandle.com added this to the invisible text:



Vi kan selv ændre odds for at få et længere liv. Andres unger, dine børn.

esoteric ravla no purgatory yes catharsis osnah
Dad?


creepy.

Also: a couple of new links? Has anyone else seen these?

http://www.frimurer.no/

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/risk/a99942.html (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/risk/a99942.html)

And apparently, this http://195.3566308/quackmcduck/abc/lost/ used to be the directory for marvincandle.com, but now it's changed. This is the new directory for those interested: http://195.3566308/quackmcduck/abc/lost/hanso/
Anyone have any idea what the Norweigan site is all about?

Hi,
Here's the Norwegian site in English. (http://www.frimurer.no/engelsk.htm) Freemasonry...here we go 'round the mulberry bush, again.

Thanks, lostscape!

I believe that the Island is a figment of an austistic kid's imagination that is playing with a snow globe.

"...rosebud."

heh.

And they've changed one of my original favorites: oceanicairlines.com

Brian Parkson's name has been removed, and the invisble text reads:

Your overconfidence is your weakness.

In the source code is the palindrome:

Star not I it on rats

one half of the anagram creates the word STRONTIA: maybe?


Strontia
[NL. strontia, fr. Strontian, in Argyleshire, Scotland, where strontianite was first found.]
(Chem.) An earth of a white color resembling lime in appearance, and baryta in many of its properties. It is an oxide of the metal strontium.

p.s. lxicon: your game really stirred up the folks on TWoP! It was so much fun to watch them dissect it, and try to discern whether it was official or not. Well done!

Date gives this, Sorry I haven't read all the pages but if you click "YES" you can see the shadow of the word DATE so I tried it. If it's been mentioned. Sorry

>>> DATE/TIME:
2005-12-10 11:34:44
SUNRISE:0708 SUNSET:1859
LATTITUDE:4.815 LONGITUDE:162.342

very funny that :thirty four: will give you the clown

SO MAD! Connection refused for me. GAH!

lexicon,
:77: :41: :67: :38:
You ROCK!

Telnet chat is open now.

went back down again, darn and I was having fun....

Did you see the conversation between Mcihael and Walt? I only caught the end of it....very creepy...

ummm yea, saw that :rolleyes:

It's down again.....grrrr

try again. up now.

looks like it's gone

It came up very briefly with Michael and Karen DeGroot:



todell: hello?



todell: walt?


c: nope, chrysta from twop.


ok: mike, is walt still ok?

Michael: he's gone i think i haven't heard from him

ok: hope he's ok

c: did he say he heard people approaching?


KarenDeGroot: Begin

Michael: i just hope locke can really help me find him

ok: ok, mcgroot, you got some splainin to do

ok: locke's good


todell: maybe you should take Eko with you, Michael

ok: 5OSOSOSOSOSOSOSOnot sure about eko yet

Michael: he seems good too but i don't really know much about him none of us do

todell: he seems to know his way around the jungle...


Michael: yea, how come

ok: truff!


truffurt: yo

Kate: Walt gone?


Michael: if he crashed like the rest of us how does he know


ok: looks like it

truffurt: it's real hard to get in here, glad to be back

Kate: WALT DIED

Kate: WALT DIED

Kate: WALT DIED

KarenDeGroot: You will not find Walt until you ask the right question.

Kate: WALT DIED


Kate: WALT DIED


todell: yeah, I'm not sure that he did, Mike

Michael: that's just not funny

KarenDeGroot: Nor is it correct.

ok: no kidding kate

ok: not funny

Michael: i'm sure he is ok


todell: Ahh...Dr. Karen, what do you know about Walt?

truffurt: he sounded fine earlier, a little scared, but who can blame him

Michael: he probably fell asleep or something


KarenDeGroot: They do not know how to find him.

Winter: hi

4815162342: hi

Michael: i'll find him just you watch me


todell: are you on the island, DeGroot?

Winter: how is everyone?

KarenDeGroot: Have you seen me?

Michael: no but if i do


Creepy.

Also, Alvar was on for a while and left a message in, what else, morse code:

REGENTMIWV

???

Interesting, I've tried again and nothing at all is happening. LIke the link is completely gone. Wonder if that's all we'll get?

Attention all rabbits...Attention all rabbits....

If you send a message to larsnavaho@marvincandle.com, you will receive an auto-reply.

But then, later, you'll receive a message from stealthmessage.com from Lars.

I'll let you try it for yourselves, but I've received two messages so far from Lars. I'll share them if you're interested...

I just got around to emailing Lars and asked him what his relationship was to Hanso. Here is his reply

It's not unlike the relationship between Gandal and Gandolf the white, we're tight.


I know this has something to do with LOR, but, believe it or not, I am really not that into LOR, so I don't know Gandal. Is he the alter ego of Gandolf, or perhaps his evil twin?

I know this has something to do with LOR, but, believe it or not, I am really not that into LOR, so I don't know Gandal. Is he the alter ego of Gandolf, or perhaps his evil twin?


If I'm not mistaken, Gandolf the White was who Gandal became after he died fighting the dragon? Hmmm....

If I'm not mistaken, Gandolf the White was who Gandal became after he died fighting the dragon? Hmmm....


Yep, that's correct. Gandalf the Grey fought the balrog (dragon) and died. He was resurrected as Gandalf the White to help save Middle Earth.

Interesting... So Lars is the "new and improved" Hanso here to save us? Hmmm....

telenet is back up

It also looks like there are more idiots finding the site too

I couldn't get in today. Where there a lot of people there? Did Michael threaten DeGgroot again? Did you learn anything?

I didn't see Michael threatening DeGroot, but there were a few people I would have liked to threaten! MORONS. Michael and Walt were trying to talk and there were some others (not Others--or maybe they were--LOL) asking some good questions....

I know. So painful.
I did think it was interesting that Karen DeGroot said this:

KarenDeGroot: One of you asked one of the right questions. Overconfidence will be your downfall.



"Your overconfidence is your weakness." is what is on the invisible text for oceanicairlines.com.

I think we just missed seeing Michael go off on that woman I thought I saw something just before it froze. Can't get back on now probably because of that one idiot.

wonder if it had to do with the moving around of the computer

What I got from "Walt" so far:
Today he said:
He's in a room without light.
He doesn't know who took him
He gets food through a slot in the door.
He eats fruit and "yucky" meat
I think there's a dharma symbol on the computer (he said stop sign shaped thing)
He said yesterday a woman put food through the door and today a man did
He hears whispers
Yesterday he said:
Claire should keep her baby with her
Rose is wise
He sleeps on a bench (thre doesn't seem to be much where he is)

it's damp and smells too

I know. So painful.
I did think it was interesting that Karen DeGroot said this:




"Your overconfidence is your weakness." is what is on the invisible text for oceanicairlines.com (http://oceanicairlines.com).

Oooooh, that's good! So maybe some of those questions were on the mark!?

it did sound like mike was confident but i thought it was just so walt wouldn't get scared

Don't forget it was an eight-sided room, too.

And I think the suggestion to turn the computer came after DeGroot logged off...

now its gone back to that catoms.com and not the telnet

crap what the heck is this catom thing anyway i haven't looked it up

I missed the "damp and smells" part. Did he say what it smelled like?

catoms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claytronics)

Dubbed "Claytronics" by Carnegie Mellon University (CMU), this is an emerging field of engineering concerning reconfigurable nanoscale robots ('claytronic atoms', or catoms) designed to form much larger scale machines or mechanisms. Also known as "programmable matter", the catoms are said to eventually have the ability to morph into nearly any object, even replicas of human beings for virtual meetings.

According to CMU's Synthetic Reality Project personnel, Claytronics are described as:

1. An ensemble of material that contains sufficient local computation
2. actuation
3. storage
4. energy
5. sensing & communication

Which can be programmed to form interesting dynamic shapes and configurations.

I missed the "damp and smells" part. Did he say what it smelled like?

rotten eggs--or sulphur

crap what the heck is this catom thing anyway i haven't looked it up

Here's an article http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05136/505033.stm

rotten eggs--or sulphur

More geothermal vents, eh? Either toward "the crater" on Danielle's map, or underwater?

kind of like that thing they use on Bones?

instead of scrolling has that code underneath the soldiers been done - i know probably yes

instead of scrolling has that code underneath the soldiers been done - i know probably yes
I can't remember exactly. Something like "black stone white stone"

ah, ok even with that decoder i still suck at it. i tried typing it in and that's funny i wasn't close

Just redid it. It's "dark stone, light stone".

ah, so i wasn't too off i had dnk :) glad you guys are good at it

thanks beag

I apologize I'm kind of popping in and out...still working on the website trying to get it finished and watch the Bucs beat Carolina I'm not used to such multi tasking!

Hi I dont know whether this is the right place to post this but are these sites fake?

http://oceanicworldair.com/
http://pb-sales.com/businesses.htm

it's ok - i don't think so Beag you know of them?

Also, Alvar was on for a while and left a message in, what else, morse code: REGENTMIWV

sounds like the name of the boat 6echo had in his dream in the movie "the island" which comes out this week on dvd.

i've noticed a few posts in various lost forums about "that clone site" or "merrick stuff" etc. probably cool-hunters trying to steal lost fans away from the lost forums and onto "the island" websites. -people get PAID for doing that?!?! *sigh*

have fun!
-lxicon

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/browse_thread/thread/3ead45bb96dfc406/f4b3c4ec2087e898

Was DOCTOR Ray Mullen's wife killed in erecting the concrete wall at the Swan station ?

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/browse_thread/thread/3ead45bb96dfc406/f4b3c4ec2087e898


Also, the origin of "the numbers" *MAY* have been uncovered in the thread above.

Fascinating! Thank you, 3 Putt!

Was DOCTOR Ray Mullen's wife killed in erecting the concrete wall at the Swan station ?

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/browse_thread/thread/3ead45bb96dfc406/f4b3c4ec2087e898

Also, the origin of "the numbers" *MAY* have been uncovered in the thread above.This picture reminds me of the UK Lost site and the Untold stories portion.

http://timdorr.com/images/Lost/image2.jpg

That's the feeling I got too.

any new info?

Umm...mods? where have the last 6 days worth of posts gone?

:fear3:hummmmm, maybe this (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10530417/)explains it

“As president of the United States and commander in chief I have the constitutional responsibility and the constitutional authority to protect our country,”

after all :shock1: we were being rebellious....

Umm...mods? where have the last 6 days worth of posts gone?

I dunno but apparently 77 posts were removed, and the "BSS1" thread in the spoiler forum was locked. :frown:

Posts were removed for several reasons. To start with, the content was more than questionable and people were spending hundreds of posts discussing every minor change to the questionable sites. We were finding that most seemed to have nothing to do with Lost. Another big reason was the advertising aspect of it all. We removed a few hundred posts that were all basically advertising this person's sites. Then there is the chat room and how some possibly sexually explicit things were happening there and then being reposted here. Things like that are the very reason we do not have a chat room here and I really don't care to have it happen on another site and then brought back here to be discussed. All of this has brought to our attention the mess that is in the spoiler sections and we will be overhauling it all to hopefully prevent this in the future.

I couldn't explain the 0.05/day instantaneous rate decrease in my posting history...until now.

If Karri hadn't so explicitly stated the reasons for the deleted posts, we'd have been in full conspiracy theory mode thinking that we'd come to close to intellectual transcendence, or pehaps for flying too close to the sun...

-Mang

Karri,

I wholeheartedly support any action to avoid inappropriately explicit topics in a moderated forum, or for inappropriate language, and I wholly understand the sudden actions taken by the mods and admins. Indeed, one bad weevil often spoils the grain.

Yet I still lament the loss of so much data. Some of the posts were value-added, intellectual exercises, within the scope of the thread/site vision, attempting to correlate knowledge from a source to the events seen on LOST, as well as providing starting material or catalyst for speculative opportunities on show direction, scientific principle and mythos.

Aside from the impropriety of some topics/language to which you'd alluded, which are clearly violations of usage policy, would you kindly PM me, or post publically, or redirect me to a FAQ which defines the tenets, implied or explicit, that were violated? While I know that I didn't post anything inappropriate, I would like to summarily avoid such loss in the future, and would redouble my efforts to be more aware of essential tenets to do so. It might be helpful to provide correlation of rules to examples to better clarify how you'd like to see conduct be maintained..

I got a sense that you didn't appreciate the inordinate amount of promotion of an external website that has not yet been correlated to LOST in an official manner. Was this part of the reason? And if the propagation and free advertising of unamed site was a portion of the reasoning, I would presume that rescinding the posts then discredits this unamed site, and states it as completely unrelated to to LOST in any official capacity.

Otherwise, the conspiracy theorists might continue to harbor feelings that some of the unamed site indeed was providing information much too close to reality, and therefore had to be extricated.

I appreciate your efforts. This is certainly a wonderful gathering place for discussion, speculation and intelligent discourse. I have leadership roles on bulletin boards (though not even 0.01% of the throughput here), and the associated groups gathered to use it, so I know that your efforts, and those of the other mods, admins and creators directly reflect the extremely quality of the site and attract purveyors of great quality.

-Mang,
witness to Mt. Vesuvius

Good Luck trying to convince these guys on trying to repost posts they don't like ... I started a thread that was a theory, and they disposed of it. There was one questionable post (a word that contained symbols), and a handful of posts referring to that post, and they trashed the whole thread. At least a majority of this thread survived. Be thankful for that.

The march of the jackboots comes closer ... do you dare argue with the mods?

Karri,

I wholeheartedly support any action to avoid inappropriately explicit topics in a moderated forum, or for inappropriate language, and I wholly understand the sudden actions taken by the mods and admins. Indeed, one bad weevil often spoils the grain.

Yet I still lament the loss of so much data. Some of the posts were value-added, intellectual exercises, within the scope of the thread/site vision, attempting to correlate knowledge from a source to the events seen on LOST, as well as providing starting material or catalyst for speculative opportunities on show direction, scientific principle and mythos.


It may be a loss of data but from what I saw it was a loss of data related to discussions with lose ties to Lost at best. Everything I saw was more about how the Morse code change from day to day and if someone made a comment in the chat and so on. I really don't see how a 70 page discussion about if a random person in a chat room on another site did something or not belongs here especially when the likelihood of it being fake is pretty high.



Aside from the impropriety of some topics/language to which you'd alluded, which are clearly violations of usage policy, would you kindly PM me, or post publicly, or redirect me to a FAQ which defines the tenets, implied or explicit, that were violated? While I know that I didn't post anything inappropriate, I would like to summarily avoid such loss in the future, and would redouble my efforts to be more aware of essential tenets to do so. It might be helpful to provide correlation of rules to examples to better clarify how you'd like to see conduct be maintained..

We removed any post we could find that referenced the chat room in question. It became apparent that things were going on in that chat room that violated this sites policies and I can't really condone discussion of it here. (It is like someone posting a link to a kiddy porn site and then having a 70 page analysis of the time of day when new things are added to it. Discussing the time of day things are added doesn't break any rules but 70 pages of discussion of another site isn't appropriate and to top it of the main theme violates site policy) If we don't have a chat here for the very same reasons I removed discussions of things occurring in a chat in another site, then I am not going to leave any posts in reference to said chat. Especially when the supposed spoilers from that site are questionable at best.



I got a sense that you didn't appreciate the inordinate amount of promotion of an external website that has not yet been correlated to LOST in an official manner. Was this part of the reason? And if the propagation and free advertising of unamed site was a portion of the reasoning, I would presume that rescinding the posts then discredits this unamed site, and states it as completely unrelated to to LOST in any official capacity.

Yes spamming of this site with discussion of happenings on another site is one of the reasons the posts were removed. It wasn't even discussion of the Lost related info, it was the discussions of how the site changed its title for the day and so on. And just because someone says something to the effect of "of the site mentioned blue today and there was blue paint in the mural in the hatch, it MUST mean something" doesn't make it Lost related. Seems like a lot of reaching to make connections where there aren't any.



Otherwise, the conspiracy theorists might continue to harbor feelings that some of the unamed site indeed was providing information much too close to reality, and therefore had to be extricated.


Um, no, funny assertion but no. It was spammy and much of the info I saw, I have a hard time believing would ever be part of the show. That and we have had a rash of posters coming and posting blatantly bogus spoilers.



Good Luck trying to convince these guys on trying to repost posts they don't like ... I started a thread that was a theory, and they disposed of it. There was one questionable post (a word that contained symbols), and a handful of posts referring to that post, and they trashed the whole thread. At least a majority of this thread survived. Be thankful for that.

The march of the jackboots comes closer ... do you dare argue with the mods?

Now was that REALLY necessary? If you have nothing worth while to add to the discussion, please do us all a favor and just resist the urge to hit submit.

Good Luck trying to convince these guys on trying to repost posts they don't like...do you dare argue with the mods?

I want to make it perfectly clear that I did not post anything inappropriate, nor do I think that I had any direct hand in what occured. Yet I feel somewhat involved, since I was involved in the intellectual speculation about unamed website and its connection to LOST.

Your quote above was neither my intention, nor my implied tone. I don't believe that I was trying to argue with the moderator. In fact, I don't even want the material re-posted; I don't want to look back other than to reflect on what went wrong.

Instead, I'd rather look forward, and be more productive by seeking to avoid such loss in the future by intellectual prevention on my part, and and desire to know the auspices under which to do so.

Perhaps I misstep in speaking. If this is how my words to Karri were construed, then I was mistaken for making my feelings known...

-Mang

.........so, how about those Seahawks??????????????

No, seriously, Mang you are a gentleman and a scholar. No part of your post was now or could ever have been construed as inappropriate. I also do not believe that I said anything untoward on this thread, but if I did, I apologize to all concerned.

Now, when was that darn show going to air again?

I want to make it perfectly clear that I did not post anything inappropriate, nor do I think that I had any direct hand in what occured. Yet I feel somewhat involved, since I was involved in the intellectual speculation about unamed website and its connection to LOST.

Your quote above was neither my intention, nor my implied tone. I don't believe that I was trying to argue with the moderator. In fact, I don't even want the material re-posted; I don't want to look back other than to reflect on what went wrong.

Instead, I'd rather look forward, and be more productive by seeking to avoid such loss in the future by intellectual prevention on my part, and and desire to know the auspices under which to do so.

Perhaps I misstep in speaking. If this is how my words to Karri were construed, then I was mistaken for making my feelings known...

-Mang

no worries. :) Ignore kung fu zoo, he knows not of what he speaks.

I Love you too, Karri.

I have hesitated responding to the controversy brewing here for a number of reasons; most of all I don't want to find myself on the bad side of the moderators who do an excellent job. But I feel like I must say something, even if it's only a note of resignation.

But before I do resign, I must defend the thread, the folks who posted here, and myself first. I take great exception to some the accusations that were lodged against this thread. For starters, no one here repeated anything that was untoward. Everyone here behaved quite well, and did not mention any of the nastiness that did take place on the chat. The chat on the site that must not be named was unmoderated, and there were idiots over there who posted immature and inappropriate things, but everyone here in their discussion of what was taking place never repeated any of it. We focused on some of the more interesting items that were being said by "Walt" or "Michael" and tried to determine how legitimate they were, and how they may fit into the original theory.

Which brings me to my biggest problem with the removal of those posts. I understand that many people did not see how the site that must not be named related to Lost, especially when it first materialized on the web. However, I argued early on that it was on thehansofoundation.org website, and that fact in and of itself created some question as to whether or not this was an "official" website created perhaps as a side project of the creators. When asked (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=23566&highlight=films) by passenger 23 about the legitimacy of some of the websites, Javi had this to say:

passanger 23F

whats will all the websites, which ones are real
SITE THAT MUST NOT BE NAMED
the dharma ones

the chicken one

help
people are messing with us

Javi

are you actually asking me to take all the fun out of this? no! you can't be! part of what makes lost so great for us is the life it has taken on for itself... i'll tell you this, though, beware of fake hanso films!

beware!

ja
vi

They neither confirmed nor denied which sites were for real. Unless the moderators have some sort of inside knowledge about which sites are real, then I don't understand why we aren't allowed to speculate. Furthermore, while some people did not recognize the relation of the site to Lost, I think the fact of the chat board, designed to look like the Lost computer, and the discussions that were taking place there with "Walt" and "Michael" prove that the site is Lost -related. It is just a question of its legitimacy.

It may be a loss of data but from what I saw it was a loss of data related to discussions with lose ties to Lost at best. Everything I saw was more about how the Morse code change from day to day and if someone made a comment in the chat and so on. I really don't see how a 70 page discussion about if a random person in a chat room on another site did something or not belongs here especially when the likelihood of it being fake is pretty high.

And as for all the detailing the minute changes on the site; if it is a real site, then the changes are clues, and are worth looking at and discussing. On this thread, we never discussed the so-called spoilers. Someone posted a link to the spoiler thread where that was taking place, but we certainly never violated the spoiler rules over here.

We removed any post we could find that referenced the chat room in question. It became apparent that things were going on in that chat room that violated this sites policies and I can't really condone discussion of it here. (It is like someone posting a link to a kiddy porn site and then having a 70 page analysis of the time of day when new things are added to it. Discussing the time of day things are added doesn't break any rules but 70 pages of discussion of another site isn't appropriate and to top it of the main theme violates site policy) If we don't have a chat here for the very same reasons I removed discussions of things occurring in a chat in another site, then I am not going to leave any posts in reference to said chat. Especially when the supposed spoilers from that site are questionable at best.

This comment is why I'm even writing this, I'm afraid. To compare the site that must not be named to child pornography is a bit much. Nothing that was said over there, in its most offensive, was illegal. And again, it was not repeated here. People on this thread used the utmost discretion. I thought it was a valuable place for people to compare notes about what they had read on the chat board that may be of interest, and try to put the pieces together. I honestly don't know what the folks on the Spoiler board were doing over there, but here we were just looking at the site as potentially another clue, and trying to dissect it as much. Considering thehansofoundation.org site is an official site with show-related clues on there, I thought it was fair to look at other sites that may or may not be legitimate. Now I am concerned about what other outside sites can be discussed without being shut down.

Like I originally posted, I am resigned to not talking about the site that must not be named on The Fuselage anymore. I'll just take my speculation to other forums that are more liberal in their discussion policies. But I think it is a shame, because The Fuselage is filled with polite, friendly and intelligent people who offered a great deal to my original theory about how the site that must not be named fit into Lost. I'm saddened by this, particularly because I enjoy The Fuselage so much due to its civility via the moderators. But I have to say your over-protectiveness was a bit heavy-handed, at least in relation to this thread. Everyone here behaved perfectly civilly, and was never offensive. They behaved as adults, never violated The Fuselage's rules, and posted with discretion. I suppose now I have to take this discussion someplace less civil. :unhappy:

Todell, I hope that this does not mean we won't be seeing your work here anymore.


Unfortunately, I have been traveling for the last several weeks, and my checks of the board have not been as regular as I would like. I am not sure what the offending posts contained, or referred to, but the times that I have been able to check this site, this thread is one of the ones I always check, and had never seen anything that I thought was objectionable.

I wish, now, that I had been able to keep up with it all, so I could know what had happened.

Assuming I don't get kicked off the boards for that, I will still be around in my ususal places. Just not here, I suppose.

Har Har Todell,

ye mates R wit u

I have hesitated responding to the controversy brewing here for a number of reasons; most of all I don't want to find myself on the bad side of the moderators who do an excellent job. But I feel like I must say something, even if it's only a note of resignation.

But before I do resign, I must defend the thread, the folks who posted here, and myself first. I take great exception to some the accusations that were lodged against this thread. For starters, no one here repeated anything that was untoward. Everyone here behaved quite well, and did not mention any of the nastiness that did take place on the chat. The chat on the site that must not be named was unmoderated, and there were idiots over there who posted immature and inappropriate things, but everyone here in their discussion of what was taking place never repeated any of it. We focused on some of the more interesting items that were being said by "Walt" or "Michael" and tried to determine how legitimate they were, and how they may fit into the original theory.

Which brings me to my biggest problem with the removal of those posts. I understand that many people did not see how the site that must not be named related to Lost, especially when it first materialized on the web. However, I argued early on that it was on thehansofoundation.org website, and that fact in and of itself created some question as to whether or not this was an "official" website created perhaps as a side project of the creators. When asked (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=23566&highlight=films) by passenger 23 about the legitimacy of some of the websites, Javi had this to say:





They neither confirmed nor denied which sites were for real. Unless the moderators have some sort of inside knowledge about which sites are real, then I don't understand why we aren't allowed to speculate. Furthermore, while some people did not recognize the relation of the site to Lost, I think the fact of the chat board, designed to look like the Lost computer, and the discussions that were taking place there with "Walt" and "Michael" prove that the site is Lost -related. It is just a question of its legitimacy.



And as for all the detailing the minute changes on the site; if it is a real site, then the changes are clues, and are worth looking at and discussing. On this thread, we never discussed the so-called spoilers. Someone posted a link to the spoiler thread where that was taking place, but we certainly never violated the spoiler rules over here.



This comment is why I'm even writing this, I'm afraid. To compare the site that must not be named to child pornography is a bit much. Nothing that was said over there, in its most offensive, was illegal. And again, it was not repeated here. People on this thread used the utmost discretion. I thought it was a valuable place for people to compare notes about what they had read on the chat board that may be of interest, and try to put the pieces together. I honestly don't know what the folks on the Spoiler board were doing over there, but here we were just looking at the site as potentially another clue, and trying to dissect it as much. Considering thehansofoundation.org site is an official site with show-related clues on there, I thought it was fair to look at other sites that may or may not be legitimate. Now I am concerned about what other outside sites can be discussed without being shut down.

Like I originally posted, I am resigned to not talking about the site that must not be named on The Fuselage anymore. I'll just take my speculation to other forums that are more liberal in their discussion policies. But I think it is a shame, because The Fuselage is filled with polite, friendly and intelligent people who offered a great deal to my original theory about how the site that must not be named fit into Lost. I'm saddened by this, particularly because I enjoy The Fuselage so much due to its civility via the moderators. But I have to say your over-protectiveness was a bit heavy-handed, at least in relation to this thread. Everyone here behaved perfectly civilly, and was never offensive. They behaved as adults, never violated The Fuselage's rules, and posted with discretion. I suppose now I have to take this discussion someplace less civil. :unhappy:

Todell,
Well said. The Fuselage is the only board that I have ever monitored or posted on. The rich blend of humor, intelligence and camaraderie has become dear to me, and like you, I believe this environment is due, in part to the moderators.
I also believe that the site that must not be named may very well be tied to the show. Many of the links connected thereto involved each of the aspects of the Hanso experimental programs. So, I would very much like to continue to discuss the sight that which must not be named. Posters continually link to other sites on this thread, and I trust that it would be okay for you to post the link to the new forum to discuss that which can not be named.
Thanks so much for all you do add to the 'lage. Your posts brighten up my dreary days at work, and you are so darn smart sometimes I wonder if you aren't a enhanced Hanso mutation yourself!:ntworthy:

DItto to all of the above re: Todell. I would say that I loved her, but I wouldn't want to come off as snarky (and/or be docked 10 points).

Well, I for one don't see why you'd be kicked off. I hope not, anyway. But us Texans will always stick together, right?

As far as the offending material that was posted, as I said, I did not see it. I am aware (and guilty for that matter) of the posts that just told of a picture change, or the morse code changing, but as for the chat transcripts / quotes I just did not see them.

I might take a warning for this, but as far as ungrounded and baseless spoilers being posted as fact, those are pretty rampant on the board, anyway. I was looking at the board today, for the first time in a few days, and found one that just jumped right out at me:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=30093

Even the responders have questioned the validity and credibility of the original poster, and there is no corroboration for the post, but it is still there.

Todell, I, too would like to keep up with your discussion, and analysis of the site which must remain nameless. Send me a PVT message telling me where your discourse will be, if a link is not allowed.

Karri,

I wholeheartedly support any action to avoid inappropriately explicit topics in a moderated forum, or for inappropriate language, and I wholly understand the sudden actions taken by the mods and admins.

There was one post made by me that referenced something said in the chat. However, I Edited it long before the post/thread was deleted, because I realized it to be inappropriate. But since it was me who posted something innapropriate, Karri and all, I apologize.

I got a sense that you didn't appreciate the inordinate amount of promotion of an external website that has not yet been correlated to LOST in an official manner. Was this part of the reason? And if the propagation and free advertising of unamed site was a portion of the reasoning, I would presume that rescinding the posts then discredits this unamed site, and states it as completely unrelated to to LOST in any official capacity.

I didn't get the feel that anyone was trying to advertise the site.. Many of the members here go to that chat, so it wasn't like everyone was like "Check out www.___.com."

I'm thinking that it was because I posted some of what I got from the chat. I didn't realize that was against any rules.. It is allowed on another forum, and I didn't think there was in harm in doing the same here. I know now that it is against *this* forum's rules, and again, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to step on any toes... Was just trying to have fun like everyone else.

Yes spamming of this site with discussion of happenings on another site is one of the reasons the posts were removed. It wasn't even discussion of the Lost related info, it was the discussions of how the site changed its title for the day and so on.

Again, I didn't see how anyone was spamming this forum with that site, but since you feel that way, I respectfully apologize for giving you more work to do on this forum with regard to having to delete so many posts. :redface:

I also don't remember seeing site title info, but that might have been from before I joined that thread.

Thank you for being lenient with me, I apologize for all the trouble I caused you.

I have hesitated responding to the controversy brewing here for a number of reasons; most of all I don't want to find myself on the bad side of the moderators who do an excellent job. But I feel like I must say something, even if it's only a note of resignation.

But before I do resign, I must defend the thread, the folks who posted here, and myself first. I take great exception to some the accusations that were lodged against this thread. For starters, no one here repeated anything that was untoward. Everyone here behaved quite well, and did not mention any of the nastiness that did take place on the chat. The chat on the site that must not be named was unmoderated, and there were idiots over there who posted immature and inappropriate things, but everyone here in their discussion of what was taking place never repeated any of it. We focused on some of the more interesting items that were being said by "Walt" or "Michael" and tried to determine how legitimate they were, and how they may fit into the original theory.

Which brings me to my biggest problem with the removal of those posts. I understand that many people did not see how the site that must not be named related to Lost, especially when it first materialized on the web. However, I argued early on that it was on thehansofoundation.org website, and that fact in and of itself created some question as to whether or not this was an "official" website created perhaps as a side project of the creators. When asked (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=23566&highlight=films) by passenger 23 about the legitimacy of some of the websites, Javi had this to say:





They neither confirmed nor denied which sites were for real. Unless the moderators have some sort of inside knowledge about which sites are real, then I don't understand why we aren't allowed to speculate. Furthermore, while some people did not recognize the relation of the site to Lost, I think the fact of the chat board, designed to look like the Lost computer, and the discussions that were taking place there with "Walt" and "Michael" prove that the site is Lost -related. It is just a question of its legitimacy.



And as for all the detailing the minute changes on the site; if it is a real site, then the changes are clues, and are worth looking at and discussing. On this thread, we never discussed the so-called spoilers. Someone posted a link to the spoiler thread where that was taking place, but we certainly never violated the spoiler rules over here.



This comment is why I'm even writing this, I'm afraid. To compare the site that must not be named to child pornography is a bit much. Nothing that was said over there, in its most offensive, was illegal. And again, it was not repeated here. People on this thread used the utmost discretion. I thought it was a valuable place for people to compare notes about what they had read on the chat board that may be of interest, and try to put the pieces together. I honestly don't know what the folks on the Spoiler board were doing over there, but here we were just looking at the site as potentially another clue, and trying to dissect it as much. Considering thehansofoundation.org site is an official site with show-related clues on there, I thought it was fair to look at other sites that may or may not be legitimate. Now I am concerned about what other outside sites can be discussed without being shut down.

Like I originally posted, I am resigned to not talking about the site that must not be named on The Fuselage anymore. I'll just take my speculation to other forums that are more liberal in their discussion policies. But I think it is a shame, because The Fuselage is filled with polite, friendly and intelligent people who offered a great deal to my original theory about how the site that must not be named fit into Lost. I'm saddened by this, particularly because I enjoy The Fuselage so much due to its civility via the moderators. But I have to say your over-protectiveness was a bit heavy-handed, at least in relation to this thread. Everyone here behaved perfectly civilly, and was never offensive. They behaved as adults, never violated The Fuselage's rules, and posted with discretion. I suppose now I have to take this discussion someplace less civil. :unhappy:
Todell:) ...thank you for writing this so eloquently.

IMHO, this may be a case of "throwing the baby out with the bath water" because the situation got out of hand. I understand that there were a number of undesirable issues with the discussions about the unnamed-site. The obscenities (not on this thread, to my knowledge) were an obvious violation of Fuselage policy. Any advertising of the unnamed site and the high volume of posts about it were, IMHO, unintentional results for the majority of posters. Most posts that I read seemed to have the motivation of speculating/interpreting the LOST story and its future plot development.

But, unfortunately, a lot of extra work was generated for the Moderators, who, as you said, do such an excellent job of maintaining The Fuselage for us. Perhaps there will be a win-win solution in the future...there is always hope, right?:)

In any case, Todell:) , I hope that you continue to post on the 'Lage, as your posts have imparted interesting and valuable information, and have been a source of inspiration and enjoyment to me (and many others, I am sure).

ETA: Jade, your post and a few others were made here before I submitted this one. This post in no way is intended to address any of your posts, here or elsewhere.:)

Everyone here behaved quite well, and did not mention any of the nastiness that did take place on the chat. The chat on the site that must not be named was unmoderated, and there were idiots over there who posted immature and inappropriate things, but everyone here in their discussion of what was taking place never repeated any of it. We focused on some of the more interesting items that were being said by "Walt" or "Michael" and tried to determine how legitimate they were, and how they may fit into the original theory.

Which brings me to my biggest problem with the removal of those posts. I understand that many people did not see how the site that must not be named related to Lost, especially when it first materialized on the web. However, I argued early on that it was on thehansofoundation.org website, and that fact in and of itself created some question as to whether or not this was an "official" website created perhaps as a side project of the creators. When asked (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=23566&highlight=films) by passenger 23 about the legitimacy of some of the websites, Javi had this to say:

They neither confirmed nor denied which sites were for real. Unless the moderators have some sort of inside knowledge about which sites are real, then I don't understand why we aren't allowed to speculate. Furthermore, while some people did not recognize the relation of the site to Lost, I think the fact of the chat board, designed to look like the Lost computer, and the discussions that were taking place there with "Walt" and "Michael" prove that the site is Lost -related. It is just a question of its legitimacy.

This comment is why I'm even writing this, I'm afraid. To compare the site that must not be named to child pornography is a bit much. Nothing that was said over there, in its most offensive, was illegal. And again, it was not repeated here. People on this thread used the utmost discretion.

Todell, regrettably I did post something that was nasty, because I was new to the chat and was questioning it's authenticity. I edited that post shortly thereafter so as not to violate any rules.

I am also in agreement with you that it was a great thread to compare notes and just speculate. Maybe I crossed the line when I posted bits of the chat here? None of that was "nasty", just things that "Walt" said. I'm disappointed to have lost all that information, because some of it was very interesting, to say the least.

And we are on hiatus right now, so what else can we do but speculate until Jan. 11th?


ETA: Jade, your post and a few others were made here before I submitted this one. This post in no way is intended to address any of your posts, here or elsewhere.:)

I know, :)

We removed any post we could find that referenced the chat room in question. It became apparent that things were going on in that chat room that violated this sites policies and I can't really condone discussion of it here. (It is like someone posting a link to a kiddy porn site and then having a 70 page analysis of the time of day when new things are added to it. Discussing the time of day things are added doesn't break any rules but 70 pages of discussion of another site isn't appropriate and to top it of the main theme violates site policy) If we don't have a chat here for the very same reasons I removed discussions of things occurring in a chat in another site, then I am not going to leave any posts in reference to said chat. Especially when the supposed spoilers from that site are questionable at best.

I have hesitated responding to the controversy brewing here for a number of reasons; most of all I don't want to find myself on the bad side of the moderators who do an excellent job. But I feel like I must say something, even if it's only a note of resignation.

But before I do resign, I must defend the thread, the folks who posted here, and myself first. I take great exception to some the accusations that were lodged against this thread. For starters, no one here repeated anything that was untoward. Everyone here behaved quite well, and did not mention any of the nastiness that did take place on the chat. The chat on the site that must not be named was unmoderated, and there were idiots over there who posted immature and inappropriate things, but everyone here in their discussion of what was taking place never repeated any of it. We focused on some of the more interesting items that were being said by "Walt" or "Michael" and tried to determine how legitimate they were, and how they may fit into the original theory.

This comment is why I'm even writing this, I'm afraid. To compare the site that must not be named to child pornography is a bit much. Nothing that was said over there, in its most offensive, was illegal. And again, it was not repeated here. People on this thread used the utmost discretion. I thought it was a valuable place for people to compare notes about what they had read on the chat board that may be of interest, and try to put the pieces together. I honestly don't know what the folks on the Spoiler board were doing over there, but here we were just looking at the site as potentially another clue, and trying to dissect it as much. Considering thehansofoundation.org site is an official site with show-related clues on there, I thought it was fair to look at other sites that may or may not be legitimate. Now I am concerned about what other outside sites can be discussed without being shut down.

Like I originally posted, I am resigned to not talking about the site that must not be named on The Fuselage anymore. I'll just take my speculation to other forums that are more liberal in their discussion policies. But I think it is a shame, because The Fuselage is filled with polite, friendly and intelligent people who offered a great deal to my original theory about how the site that must not be named fit into Lost. I'm saddened by this, particularly because I enjoy The Fuselage so much due to its civility via the moderators. But I have to say your over-protectiveness was a bit heavy-handed, at least in relation to this thread. Everyone here behaved perfectly civilly, and was never offensive. They behaved as adults, never violated The Fuselage's rules, and posted with discretion. I suppose now I have to take this discussion someplace less civil. :unhappy:


Agreed Todell, and very well spoken. I cannot add anything more that would be of more value....

except:

I am offended that you, Karri, would compare the postings here in any way to "kiddy porn"--even by example. I find that comment to be far more offensive than any discourse I have seen anywhere on this board. Shame on you!

Wow! Thaks everyone for your kind comments and support. I guess we have to wait for a moderator to give some final clarification about what is verboten around here. Hope what I'm about to post doesn't fall into that category.

Until then, some interesting discoveries have been made regarding the "copenhagen" document.

Truffula on losttv-forum found that when the document is put through photo editing programs, interesting images emerge. (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257239&postcount=626)

Later, truff deciphered more (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257260&postcount=634) of what was hidden. Here is the rest of the discussion over there. (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6670&page=64) Fascinating stuff.

Well done, truffula! (And to dragon44 over at TWoP for noticing...)

Wow! Thaks everyone for your kind comments and support. I guess we have to wait for a moderator to give some final clarification about what is verboten around here. Hope what I'm about to post doesn't fall into that category.

You deserve the support, IMO, because what you said was right..

Until then, some interesting discoveries have been made regarding the "copenhagen" document.

Truffula on losttv-forum found that when the document is put through photo editing programs, interesting images emerge. (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257239&postcount=626)

Later, truff deciphered more (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257260&postcount=634) of what was hidden. Here is the rest of the discussion over there. (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6670&page=64) Fascinating stuff.

Well done, truffula! (And to dragon44 over at TWoP for noticing...)

That's crazy!! I can't wait to discuss this further. What a great find!

Hi all,

Just to let you know that in my haste to lay out a guide to help people traverse the mentioned site, I had pasted some of the chat conversions i.e apollo = alvar and didnt read through a lot of it which unfortunately did contain a lot of inappropriate language (not in this thread though)
Certainly not my intention and worthy of a smack and 20 or so points...yikes.
Secondly I had posted a link to the site specifying how to get there and what to do. Again with a different intention than soliciting.

All in all it was designed to inform and help those who would consider taking a look at the unamed site.

I have to apologise and make you aware that Karri has simply done her job and a good one too. I had not realised until it was made aware to me that there was in fact inappropriate language in what I had posted. Having three young children, this is certainly something I for one do not advocate and am a little disheartened I had not screened what I was posting.

I got my smack and have lost PM privileges for 30 days but still loving the lage.


D

Until then, some interesting discoveries have been made regarding the "copenhagen" document.

Some possibilities: an elaborate tribute or hoax not sponsored/approved by TPTB, an elaborate TPTB-sponsored Easter Egg, an elaborate TPTB-sponsored hoax, or combination of the latter two. I do sometimes get the feeling that the kids have found, opened, and played with the Christmas presents too early. :biggrin:

I do sometimes get the feeling that the kids have found, opened, and played with the Christmas presents too early. :biggrin:
That is my impression as well. Now the mods have to play the parents and slap our hands away, but you can't undo what has been done. Hide them better next time, creative guys! Cause us kids get itchy fingers when there ain't no shows to keep us occupied! That means ransaking the clues and going to the closet that can't be mentioned to shake boxes and peek into the corners and /or open and play with the big pretty presents.:smile:

<soapbox>
I'm sorry, but I have to speak up again. I have just spent 15 minutes--that's all, no more--browsing through the 'lage. In that short amount of time I randomly chose threads to peruse. What I found were numerous threads and posts referring to other sites--many of which are certainly not "canon" sites. Along with the usual oceanir air, oceanic world air, dharma institute, abc, marvin candle, hanso foundation, etc. sites are other chat forums, links to individual posters' sites, various theory sites and things like wikipedia (a user-contributed encyclopedia-like site). There are also threads that are less discussion of LOST than "chat" threads. Am I to presume that all of these posts/threads are against fuselage policy and, as such, they will also be removed from the boards? If not, why this thread in particular when so many other threads/posts are less relevant and often, in my opinion, far more offensive....?

No disresepct intended, but I think rules should apply equally throughout--consistency is essential to understanding what is acceptable and what isn't.
</soapbox>

I have to stick my head in and say Beagle I love the <soapbox> </soapbox>
It's better to hash it out now I guess. I'm kind of with you guys - see I'm part of a ship and it sometimes gets a bit "too" fun in there - I guess I don't know where I'm taking this, just wanted to say I'm confused too, and if I had any part in this I certainly did it unknowingly.

<soapbox>
I'm sorry, but I have to speak up again. I have just spent 15 minutes--that's all, no more--browsing through the 'lage. In that short amount of time I randomly chose threads to peruse. What I found were numerous threads and posts referring to other sites--many of which are certainly not "canon" sites. Along with the usual oceanir air, oceanic world air, dharma institute, abc, marvin candle, hanso foundation, etc. sites are other chat forums, links to individual posters' sites, various theory sites and things like wikipedia (a user-contributed encyclopedia-like site). There are also threads that are less discussion of LOST than "chat" threads. Am I to presume that all of these posts/threads are against fuselage policy and, as such, they will also be removed from the boards? If not, why this thread in particular when so many other threads/posts are less relevant and often, in my opinion, far more offensive....?

No disresepct intended, but I think rules should apply equally throughout--consistency is essential to understanding what is acceptable and what isn't.
</soapbox>

May I, borrow this, Beagle? Thanks.<soapbox>
Another valid point, but this just wasn't the only thread that was picked on, they completly annihiliated an entire thread with 100+ posts that I had (based in science and logic, not Charlie/Claire are in love threads or Sawyer/Kate/Dr. Shep Love triangle threads). I know of another that was shut down too. IMHO, I believe in the last few days, they have been targeting threads/boards/people that pose valid theories/give logical explainations/encourage free and intelligent thought/and present information that can be traced back to the show or sites affiliated with the show.

I honestly believe they are trying to close down info that could give away too much before 1/11/06. If we can't communicate with each other about certain spoilers we ascertain from a certain site that must not be named, we each may have a small spoiler, but together - forget it, major spoilerville. Frankly, I hope we can meet together somewhere that wouldn't mind info being shared (but also would be a mature enough environment to conduct civil conversation (like the Lage before the purges)). As more info comes together from the site that must not be named, I hope a new area of discussion could be found, as the site that must not be named has a connection with another site, which has a connection with the show. It just don't make sense, kinda like Chewbacca living on Endor.

Thanks Beagle, for letting me borrow this,</soapbox>

Wow! Thaks everyone for your kind comments and support. I guess we have to wait for a moderator to give some final clarification about what is verboten around here. Hope what I'm about to post doesn't fall into that category.

Until then, some interesting discoveries have been made regarding the "copenhagen" document.

Truffula on losttv-forum found that when the document is put through photo editing programs, interesting images emerge. (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257239&postcount=626)

Later, truff deciphered more (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=257260&postcount=634) of what was hidden. Here is the rest of the discussion over there. (http://www.losttv-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6670&page=64) Fascinating stuff.

Well done, truffula! (And to dragon44 over at TWoP for noticing...)


Does that mean you will stay here in my most loved thread? Wonderful!

As I read about posts beeing removed I was very confused - and sad as well. I really would have liked to post my thoughts that were in my head in this moment, but they all were German. :mad:
My English is far far away from any capacy to express these thoughts in a way that will not be misunderstood. So I stayed confused - without saying anything.

I have to thank you for all your words more above - most of them could be taken and well translated from my head. How did you do that?

I love to be here on the fuselage because people here are friendly, warmhearted, intelligent and all that what was said before. I love your posts, Todell, and many other's too.

Hope everybody will soon find back to happy speculating, googling, search and find, 'serious sciences'.

Good night for now (Old Europe is already heading European morning).

I believe in the last few days, they have been targeting threads/boards/people that pose valid theories/give logical explainations/encourage free and intelligent thought/and present information that can be traced back to the show or sites affiliated with the show.

I honestly believe they are trying to close down info that could give away too much before 1/11/06. If we can't communicate with each other about certain spoilers we ascertain from a certain site that must not be named, we each may have a small spoiler, but together - forget it, major spoilerville.

I guess that makes sense... However... The site the must not be named was found via a legitimate LOST site, correct?

If that is the case, then they have hired people (or are using interns) to chat in the site that must not be named as "Walt". If that is true, then the info we got is legit. And if that is the case, then they (meaning the LOST creators) don't care that much about spoilery. Finally, if what I think is true, then the Mods shouldn't care either, KWIM?

If the writers are purposely giving us little spoilers, they would have to have anticipated that all of us would discuss it on one forum or another. Again, what else are we going to do for 6 weeks? lol

By the way, my little Rabbits (this is a dangerous move, but I think pertinent to the discussion about what it is that we can not discuss. Just call me Commander Bunny.), the thing that ended our discussion about the site that can not be named? has been removed from the site that can not be named. What is going on?

By the way, my little Rabbits (this is a dangerous move, but I think pertinent to the discussion about what it is that we can not discuss. Just call me Commander Bunny.), the thing that ended our discussion about the site that can not be named? has been removed from the site that can not be named. What is going on?

Yeah, I noticed that too... :eek2:

They better get it back up and running, lol.

hmmm, I see that commander. Very innnnteresting! I know nothing, Nothing I tell you!

As I read about posts beeing removed I was very confused - and sad as well. I really would have liked to post my thoughts that were in my head in this moment, but they all were German. :mad:


German? Wie Ghets!? I used to be stationed in Germany, in Kitzingen AM (between Wurzburg and Frankfurt 1986-1988). I went to Hamburg for a 3 day weekend. A truly beautiful city, I wished I could have stayed longer, but unfortunately, I had to go back to duty. Very nice people up there too, it obviously hasn't changed in that aspect :lipsseal: .

Man, way too many old thoughts of Germany (or, when I was there, West Germany / FRG) are running through my head. Well, I am going to go, and reminisce in my head about the awesome years I spent there.

Auf Wiedersehen, Old Europe!

(Sorry about straying off subject everyone, I just had to say "howdy" to the German)

hmmmmm, perhaps the forwards/backwards talker decided to bounce us once and for all.....

or could there a far more sinister reason? *wondering just how close to the truth we actually got*

hmmmmm, perhaps the forwards/backwards talker decided to bounce us once and for all.....

or could there a far more sinister reason? *wondering just how close to the truth we actually got*

That really pisses me off then, if that is the case. I lost EVERYTHING I learned. :mad:

They can't erase your memory......some of us can still access that right ?? :biggrin:

I couldn't resist one last post re: the site that cannot be named... did that happen just now? I was just on maybe 2 hours ago.

I'm guessing they shut it down because either we were catching on too fast to clues, or the language/vulgarity factor shut it down. I mean, what would the public think if it was hosted by ABC/Disney and some of that talk was going on? It is durned unfortunate if that is the case.

BORK!

They can't erase your memory......some of us can still access that right ?? :biggrin:

Yeah... I remember most of it, but there was a few really cool things with weird names that I wanted to research further, and now I can't. :frown:

I couldn't resist one last post re: the site that cannot be named... did that happen just now? I was just on maybe 2 hours ago.

I'm guessing they shut it down because either we were catching on too fast to clues, or the language/vulgarity factor shut it down. I mean, what would the public think if it was hosted by ABC/Disney and some of that talk was going on? It is durned unfortunate if that is the case.

BORK!

LMAO @ BORK!!!!

bork bork bork...

I really hope they are just having technical difficulties and they will be back up soon.

* crosses fingers *

Well I for one would hope that none of us conducted ourselves like that, I know I didn't. I know that - what was it - two weeks ago now - there was some actual intelligent questions being played out and I thought we were actually getting somewhere - who knows where that is right now, but somewhere. I would think that we are of a higher class than those that did act like what has caused so much a disturbance.

^^^ I highly doubt anyone from here would act like that on the site that must not be named...

I only went on there for about a week, and got a lot of interesting info...

I really hope they fix the site!! :Jumpy:

Highly, highly doubt it. No one I know here would have been like that. I thought we always tried to steer the chat in the right direction as well.

I always encouraged the boy to "BOUNCEY" the idiots.

By the way, my little Rabbits (this is a dangerous move, but I think pertinent to the discussion about what it is that we can not discuss. Just call me Commander Bunny.), the thing that ended our discussion about the site that can not be named? has been removed from the site that can not be named. What is going on?
IIRC, the posts here indicated that the Chat was available, then not, then again, then not, etc. So that is "normal"?

Jade: if the unnamed site is legitimate, the info from legit user names (meaning, user names being utilized by site associates) was not necessarily "correct"...it could very well have been red herrings. The bottom line being that it is surely advantageous to perpetuate and protect the mysteries of LOST.

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned, at least that I've noticed, is that it is a free site; there are no ads, Google, clickable, or otherwise, on the unnamed site. So even if a non-sponsored party was running the site...even if they were to post here to attempt to draw us to it, I don't see where any monetary gain would be achieved.

Did anyone ever track down the ownership of the unnamed site? Via WHOIS?

i am going to let Karri fully deal with this thread but there were a few points that i want to address.


I might take a warning for this, but as far as ungrounded and baseless spoilers being posted as fact, those are pretty rampant on the board, anyway. I was looking at the board today, for the first time in a few days, and found one that just jumped right out at me:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=30093

Even the responders have questioned the validity and credibility of the original poster, and there is no corroboration for the post, but it is still there.

have you looked at the spoiler section? i know that you have, but seriously. this section
is out of control. everyone is jockeying to post the "newest, bestest, most REAL!!!!1111!!!!" spoilers first.
and most of the time without reading one single thread or even doing a search
to see if it was already started.
what exactly do you expect us to do if the spoiler people cant manage to follow what is going on within the spoilers?
i would love to remove all spoilers that have no validity or "trusted" sources.
of course this is going to change b/c we are getting the mini mods.
we already have one and there will be others soon.
<soapbox>
What I found were numerous threads and posts referring to other sites--many of which are certainly not "canon" sites. Along with the usual oceanir air, oceanic world air, dharma institute, abc, marvin candle, hanso foundation, etc. sites are other chat forums, links to individual posters' sites, various theory sites and things like wikipedia (a user-contributed encyclopedia-like site).
yes, and? what point are you trying to make here? the fact that your "chat" site
was linking people to questionable content?

There are also threads that are less discussion of LOST than "chat" threads. Am I to presume that all of these posts/threads are against fuselage policy and, as such, they will also be removed from the boards? If not, why this thread in particular when so many other threads/posts are less relevant and often, in my opinion, far more offensive....?
again with and? if that were the only criteria then half if not more of this board would be gone.
i suppose the movies/books/off topic section should go too?

No disresepct intended, but I think rules should apply equally throughout--consistency is essential to understanding what is acceptable and what isn't.
</soapbox>
consistency? apparently you have not seen the threads that have been deleted, merged, edited and posters banned.
b/c then you would be able to see how consistent we are with the treatment of the posters here.


IMHO, I believe in the last few days, they have been targeting threads/boards/people that pose valid theories/give logical explainations/encourage free and intelligent thought/and present information that can be traced back to the show or sites affiliated with the show.

I honestly believe they are trying to close down info that could give away too much before 1/11/06.

they? they who? the Admin of this site? the MODs?
(aside from Karri, i have been the only other one involved)
Frankly, I hope we can meet together somewhere that wouldn't mind info being shared (but also would be a mature enough environment to conduct civil conversation (like the Lage before the purges)).
nice one.
the 'Lage has never allowed conversations with the language that was linked/posted to this site.
from day one the rules are clear in that area.
As more info comes together from the site that must not be named, I hope a new area of discussion could be found, as the site that must not be named has a connection with another site, which has a connection with the show.
so there is a REAL connection to the show? ABC?

I guess that makes sense... However... The site the must not be named was found via a legitimate LOST site, correct?
again with the it is legit? you sure?

Fiinally, if what I think is true, then the Mods shouldn't care either, KWIM?


what we were caring about is that the site was linking people to something that was
against our site rules ie: language. and the fact that most of the posts in this thread
was very spammy.
yeah i think that about covers the points i wanted to answer/comment on. for now.

Posts were removed for several reasons. To start with, the content was more than questionable and people were spending hundreds of posts discussing every minor change to the questionable sites. We were finding that most seemed to have nothing to do with Lost. Another big reason was the advertising aspect of it all. We removed a few hundred posts that were all basically advertising this person's sites. Then there is the chat room and how some possibly sexually explicit things were happening there and then being reposted here. Things like that are the very reason we do not have a chat room here and I really don't care to have it happen on another site and then brought back here to be discussed. All of this has brought to our attention the mess that is in the spoiler sections and we will be overhauling it all to hopefully prevent this in the future.
It may be a loss of data but from what I saw it was a loss of data related to discussions with lose ties to Lost at best. Everything I saw was more about how the Morse code change from day to day and if someone made a comment in the chat and so on. I really don't see how a 70 page discussion about if a random person in a chat room on another site did something or not belongs here especially when the likelihood of it being fake is pretty high. We removed any post we could find that referenced the chat room in question. It became apparent that things were going on in that chat room that violated this sites policies and I can't really condone discussion of it here. (It is like someone posting a link to a kiddy porn site and then having a 70 page analysis of the time of day when new things are added to it. Discussing the time of day things are added doesn't break any rules but 70 pages of discussion of another site isn't appropriate and to top it of the main theme violates site policy) If we don't have a chat here for the very same reasons I removed discussions of things occurring in a chat in another site, then I am not going to leave any posts in reference to said chat. Especially when the supposed spoilers from that site are questionable at best. Yes spamming of this site with discussion of happenings on another site is one of the reasons the posts were removed. It wasn't even discussion of the Lost related info, it was the discussions of how the site changed its title for the day and so on. And just because someone says something to the effect of "of the site mentioned blue today and there was blue paint in the mural in the hatch, it MUST mean something" doesn't make it Lost related. Seems like a lot of reaching to make connections where there aren't any.
Um, no, funny assertion but no. It was spammy and much of the info I saw, I have a hard time believing would ever be part of the show. That and we have had a rash of posters coming and posting blatantly bogus spoilers.
Now was that REALLY necessary? If you have nothing worth while to add to the discussion, please do us all a favor and just resist the urge to hit submit.







i am going to let Karri fully deal with this thread but there were a few points that i want to address.Originally Posted by CaptainKidd
I might take a warning for this, but as far as ungrounded and baseless spoilers being posted as fact, those are pretty rampant on the board, anyway. I was looking at the board today, for the first time in a few days, and found one that just jumped right out at me: http//www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/...ad.php?t=30093 Even the responders have questioned the validity and credibility of the original poster, and there is no corroboration for the post, but it is still there.







have you looked at the spoiler section? i know that you have, but seriously. this section is out of control. everyone is jockeying to post the "newest, bestest, most REAL!!!!1111!!!!" spoilers first. and most of the time without reading one single thread or even doing a search to see if it was already started. what exactly do you expect us to do if the spoiler people cant manage to follow what is going on within the spoilers? i would love to remove all spoilers that have no validity or "trusted" sources. of course this is going to change b/c we are getting the mini mods. we already have one and there will be others soon.Originally Posted by beagle1962
<soapbox>
What I found were numerous threads and posts referring to other sites--many of which are certainly not "canon" sites. Along with the usual oceanir air, oceanic world air, dharma institute, abc, marvin candle, hanso foundation, etc. sites are other chat forums, links to individual posters' sites, various theory sites and things like wikipedia (a user-contributed encyclopedia-like site).







yes, and? what point are you trying to make here? the fact that your "chat" site
was linking people to questionable content?
BOLD ADDED


I think the point is clear: Karri’s rationale for the removal of postings to this thread is that "the content was more than questionable" and "Another big reason was the advertising aspect of it all". She stated, "I really don't see how a 70 page discussion about if a random person in a chat room on another site did something or not belongs here especially when the likelihood of it being fake is pretty high." She continues with, "Especially when the supposed spoilers from that site are questionable at best. Yes spamming of this site with discussion of happenings on another site is one of the reasons the posts were removed." I’m merely illustrating that this thread is one of MANY on this site doing just that.







Originally Posted by beagle1962
There are also threads that are less discussion of LOST than "chat" threads. Am I to presume that all of these posts/threads are against fuselage policy and, as such, they will also be removed from the boards? If not, why this thread in particular when so many other threads/posts are less relevant and often, in my opinion, far more offensive....?

No disrespect intended, but I think rules should apply equally throughout--consistency is essential to understanding what is acceptable and what isn't.
</soapbox>







again with and? if that were the only criteria then half if not more of this board would be gone.i suppose the movies/books/off topic section should go too?
consistency? apparently you have not seen the threads that have been deleted, merged, edited and posters banned. b/c then you would be able to see how consistent we are with the treatment of the posters here.
Thank you. You are making my point for me. Again, Kari states, "And just because someone says something to the effect of "of the site mentioned blue today and there was blue paint in the mural in the hatch, it MUST mean something" doesn't make it Lost related. Seems like a lot of reaching to make connections where there aren't any" and "and much of the info I saw, I have a hard time believing would ever be part of the show." If this is the rationale then, yes, in order to be consistent "then half if not more of this board would be gone."

In my humble opinion, a great majority of this board is made of threads of pure speculation (after all, do any of us really know what is fact and what is not?). Who determines the benchmark of feasibility and what are "trusted sources"?

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I made a concerted effort not to lash out at the mods on this thread, but rather to welcome a discussion regarding the issues of the posts. I find it unacceptable to attack any poster for airing his/her views. It is my understanding that personal attacks are off limits—dispute the post, not the poster. I find your comments in response to my post to be inappropriate.

Aside from the condescending tone of your responses: (A) The site we are discussing is not my chat site. I particularly resent the implication given Karri’s comment equating it to "kiddy porn" (which I still find abhorrent); (B) Insinuating that in reading the boards I should reach a specific conclusion—your conclusion—regarding consistency is just wrong. I have seen the threads "that have been deleted, merged, edited and posters banned". I have also seen flagrant and blatant inconsistencies in how the rules have been and continue to be applied. Your own quote illustrates the inconsistencies: "i would love to remove all spoilers that have no validity or "trusted" sources."

If I may quote you again, "yes, and?"

whoa! did the revolution take a hit ? i missed ALL of that 'cause i've been busy. i just got caught up now!

just a few quick bits if info:

1) cheers to todell! -until the <soapbox> tags were started i had to only glance over many of the posts or i'd still be reading tomorrow. but i always stopped for todell . "as valiant and justified a volley of posts has not crossed this forum's port 80 before, i dare say!" -kudos to you.

2) for those who lament the loss of data : my archive is still up (i'm not pimping; it's just open directories of cached content) at http://lxicon.perception.net/lost/
* the log.txt file has all the changes since i started monitoring back on oct 7th. it will continue to be current.
** i never cached the chat, it was unfeasible, and i spent most of it's existenze unable to type with my browser/OS combination.

3) Commander Bunny may find this interesting : http://lxicon.perception.net/lost/rodent.revolution/ ( have you read his announcement from 11-02-2005 01:43 ? PM me if you haven't )


and finally, 4 (ooh a NUMBER!) "the site that must not be named" is a bit awkward. may i make these suggestions for all you reblious rabbits?

"11 4 6 18 15 12 10 8 18 5 4 15"

or

"11 18 14 13 8" for short?


be happy!
-lxicon

Jade: if the unnamed site is legitimate, the info from legit user names (meaning, user names being utilized by site associates) was not necessarily "correct"...it could very well have been red herrings. The bottom line being that it is surely advantageous to perpetuate and protect the mysteries of LOST.

It could have been... But from what I understand, the site that must not be named sprung from a legit site....??

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned, at least that I've noticed, is that it is a free site; there are no ads, Google, clickable, or otherwise, on the unnamed site. So even if a non-sponsored party was running the site...even if they were to post here to attempt to draw us to it, I don't see where any monetary gain would be achieved.

Exactly...

Did anyone ever track down the ownership of the unnamed site? Via WHOIS?

It sprung from a confirmed site, I believe...


I guess that makes sense... However... The site must not be named was found via a legitimate LOST site, correct?

again with the it is legit? you sure?

Yes...I thought that the Hanso site was legit, and they found the site that must not be named embedded in HTML formatting, IIRC..I don't know anything about code...but something like that *is* how others found this site....


Finally, if what I think is tru, then the Mods shouldn't care either, KWIM?


we were caring about is that the site was linking people to something that was
against our site rules ie: language. and the fact that most of the posts in this thread
was very spammy.
yeah i think that about covers the points i wanted to answer/comment on. for now.

Language was an accident, IMO...c/p and not previewing post errors..those errors were fixed, at least, on my part, in a timely fashion.

As far as spamming? I'm sorry, but I disagree...

Check out AOL boards if you want spam.. lol

Spam, IMO, is starting multiple threads about the same thing...this was ONE thread where a discussion was being held.

Agree to disagree?

And, just a LOL...but how funny is it that that site is now down........Hmmmm........

my comment:

Jade: if the unnamed site is legitimate, the info from legit user names (meaning, user names being utilized by site associates) was not necessarily "correct"...it could very well have been red herrings. The bottom line being that it is surely advantageous to perpetuate and protect the mysteries of LOST.

Jade's:
It could have been... But from what I understand, the site that must not be named sprung from a legit site....??

Jade...my point there was that IF it is a legitimate site, the info from it could still be misinformation, red herrings, to throw us off the track...or for pure entertainment. I said this because TPTB have a vested interest in keeping the mysteries secret...to increase viewership, buzz, ratings, show life span, and thus profit. It is, after all, a mystery drama show. And I'm not criticizing them for that...I still love TPTB.:biggrin: It's just that Javi has been quoted as (more less) admitting such.

my comment:

Jade's:

Jade...my point there was that IF it is a legitimate site, the info from it could still be misinformation, red herrings, to throw us off the track...or for pure entertainment. I said this because TPTB have a vested interest in keeping the mysteries secret...to increase viewership, buzz, ratings, show life span, and thus profit. It is, after all, a mystery drama show. And I'm not criticizing them for that...I still love TPTB.:biggrin: It's just that Javi has been quoted as (more less) admitting such.

Hey, and that's fine with me...but it kinda debunks the theory (at least for me) that the site was shut down because some of us were getting too close to the truth, lol.

whoa! did the revolution take a hit ? i missed ALL of that 'cause i've been busy. i just got caught up now!

just a few quick bits if info:

1) cheers to todell! -until the <soapbox> tags were started i had to only glance over many of the posts or i'd still be reading tomorrow. but i always stopped for todell . "as valiant and justified a volley of posts has not crossed this forum's port 80 before, i dare say!" -kudos to you.

2) for those who lament the loss of data : my archive is still up (i'm not pimping; it's just open directories of cached content) at http://lxicon.perception.net/lost/
* the log.txt file has all the changes since i started monitoring back on oct 7th. it will continue to be current.
** i never cached the chat, it was unfeasible, and i spent most of it's existenze unable to type with my browser/OS combination.

3) Commander Bunny may find this interesting : http://lxicon.perception.net/lost/rodent.revolution/ ( have you read his announcement from 11-02-2005 01:43 ? PM me if you haven't )


and finally, 4 (ooh a NUMBER!) "the site that must not be named" is a bit awkward. may i make these suggestions for all you reblious rabbits?

"11 4 6 18 15 12 10 8 18 5 4 15"

or

"11 18 14 13 8" for short?


be happy!
-lxicon


Ahh! Lex, you wascally wabbit! Clever. Very clever.

again with the it is legit? you sure?

Here's the history of the site that must not be named. When http://www.thehansofoundation.org appeared after "Orientation" aired, much more savvy folks than myself went to https://www.thehansofoundation.org and they found a blank page with only the name of the site that must not be named (in fact, there was no .com behind it, even--folks filled that in). So, lexicon, my computer-wise buddy, help us answer the following question please:

When a site has an http, and an https, do they have exclusive control over the content of both? For instance: http://www.thehansofoundation.org has exclusive control over https://www.thehansofoundation.org? or no? Can anyone set up an https site for a pre-existing http site? Or is that their secure location? The reason that I ever paid much attention to this site was that it appeared on thehansofoundation.org's encrypted page, which is supposed to be more secure than the regular page. Am I getting this right, lexicon?

I understand the moderators' concerns that the site is not legitimate, but if the address appeared on the secure site for a confirmed ABC site (which, it did), it begs the question how does the site relate to Lost?

To the moderators: I am afraid this controversy has inspired such anger from the Fuselage members because the decision seems rather draconian, and inconsistent. It opens up the question of what can we discuss on the General Theories board that is not explicitly shown on the television show? Which other sites are forbidden? Are books and music and other movies that have not been included in the episodes themselves off-limits because of their questionable and tenuous relationship to the show? There are a number of threads specifically in General Theories that I simply do not see the connection to the show at all, but I'm not going to point them out for fear they will be shut down. The point is, perhaps the creator and contributors of those threads do see the connections, and I'm just not making it along with them... but if I were a moderator, should I lock the thread? Tell them to quit making the connections, because I'm not making them?

To the rabbits: The moderators are walking a fine line here. Keep in mind that they shut down the Spoiler thread altogether, and they needed to prevent the discussion that they found offensive to being moved over to the Rabbits' thread. They could have locked the Rabbits as well, but they chose not to, and I appreciate that decision. I'm not saying you shouldn't still be upset, and that you shouldn't say what is on your minds, but tread carefully. I would hate for any of you to find yourselves in trouble with the moderators for comments they may take personally.

We're just looking for clarification (and perhaps I'm hoping to change your minds about your position on the site that must not be named), and reassurance that the moderators are not capricious in their decisions about what we may discuss. It is your board, and we are just guests here, but I have to agree with beagle that some of the decisions seem inconsistent.

I'm looking forward to hearing from the moderators!

Thanks,
CB

11 18 14 13 8

I honestly believe they are trying to close down info that could give away too much before 1/11/06.

hmmmmm, perhaps the forwards/backwards talker decided to bounce us once and for all.....

or could there a far more sinister reason? *wondering just how close to the truth we actually got*


um sure, go ahead and believe that if you wish. I don't have the time or energy to continue debating the topic with you.


Look, I just want to make one thing clear to everyone here. I am half ready to shut down this entire thread because no one seems to get that a BIG reason the other posts were removed was they were discussing THE OTHER SITE and not the SPOILERS or THEORIES BASED ON THE SPOILERS. Knock yourselves out if you want to discuss the spoilers from that site. But do you REALLY feel that pages upon pages of posts about the site itself are appropriate? Well I don't. The other site should NOT be mentioned anymore than as the source for the spoilers being discussed. That's it. So now that you all have had your moment of indignation about it all, why not get back to discussing the spoilers/theories and not the site? K? If you have comments on this sites policies, please take it to the questions for admins and mods board and keep this thread on topic as much as you can.

Look, I just want to make one thing clear to everyone here. I am half ready to shut down this entire thread because no one seems to get that a BIG reason the other posts were removed was they were discussing THE OTHER SITE and not the SPOILERS or THEORIES BASED ON THE SPOILERS.

Okay... I respectfully submit one question, if you could indulge me: I had a thread in the THEORIES BASED ON SPOILERS section with a revised title of: Out of this world theory - Enter only if you want the theory" ... or something like that. Not once did I make mention of the unnamed site (however, I did derive some theories from info gleaned from that site - but never mentioned it on the thread in question). So my question is ...why was that thread shut down? It never mentioned the unnamed site, or even alluded to it. The thread had some links, but not as spammy types of sites, but as support (e.g. science, wikipedia, informative) to the theory I was proposing. :ohwell:

which thread was it?

which thread was it?
Whoops, my bad... "Out of this world theory - Enter only if you want the theory" on Spoiler Theories

which thread was it?
karri just do a search on threads started by him.
that is how i found it. i revisited it today, and realized
that that thread was the one in which he was arguing with Huskie and me about first amendment rights,
and his seemingly "attempting" to bypass the language filters.:rolleyes:
oh yeah it started out with how he wanted his "own" theories thread.

... So, lexicon, my computer-wise buddy, help us answer the following question please:

When a site has an http, and an https, do they have exclusive control over the content of both? For instance: http://www.thehansofoundation.org has exclusive control over https://www.thehansofoundation.org? or no? Can anyone set up an https site for a pre-existing http site? Or is that their secure location? The reason that I ever paid much attention to this site was that it appeared on thehansofoundation.org's encrypted page, which is supposed to be more secure than the regular page. Am I getting this right, lexicon?
https:// is port 443 by default and http:// port 80 you can setup packet routing to send those requests to different servers but that would show as different ips. in fact there are any number of combinations of what you can do including load ballancing systems where you have packets sent to one IP and the response gets routed back to you from a group of servers either on individual external IPs or from behind a LAN.

eg: for this example lets make up some names and numbers : site "themrabbits.com" with IP address 1.2.3.4 is a load ballancing machine.

you point your browser to http://themrabbits.com/ (http://1.2.3.4/) and the response comes form one of any number of machines behind a firewall. like http://10.0.0.1/, http://10.0.0.2/, http://10.0.0.3/ ...
* the 10.0.0.# machines do not have external ips, they are behind the firewall. the requests get split up between all machines behind the firewall. so one IP can seem to be able to do the work of any number servers.

you can have the https:// packets go to a completely different machine or group of machines. but this is all root level configurations.

bottom line : if you control http://themrabbits.com/ then you controll where those packet filtering and load ballancing rules are applied. or, you have hired someone to do this for you. but you have control.


ok, now that that's out of the way what does this mean for the link between hanso and 11 18 14 13 8 ?


in apache websers the document root for the https:// and http:// are set up in separate places. so they don't have to be the same files. but they are usually on the same machine (with the exceptions listed above)

when i stared checking this i was doing visual routes on the hanso site and 11 18 14 13 8 with some interesting results (see the reports in my archive, but you have to take my word that i did not edit them, so it's not proof by any means)

my thought at the time (and still is to a certain extent) is that the text in the https://thehansofoundation.org/ document root was left over from the development of the canon abc/LOST sites by the media company big spaceship (no link to 11 18 14 13 8 that i've seen btw)
* big spaceship is a legit media hosting company that appears to have been contracted by abc/LOST to do the sites :
http://www.oceanicflight815.com/
http://www.oceanic-air.com/
http://www.thehansofoundation.org/

so, when they handed over the completed html files and httpd.conf configurations to abc/LOST the text in the https:// document root might have been left over and over-looked. -or it could have been left in there until 11 18 14 13 8 got it's own footing and the text link was no longer needed.

at any rate, by OCT 14th the reverse dns link between hanso and 11 18 14 13 8 was changed and by OCT 17th, the https:// link was changed to simply redirect to http://www.thehansofoundation.org/

sorry, but nothing definitive there. there are sill valid arguments on both sides.


--edit--


hmmm, don't know if i should add this, but lets just say my archive is updated.
* with a pop up link?


have fun!
-lxicon

--edit--


hmmm, don't know if i should add this, but lets just say my archive is updated.


have fun!
-lxicon

IT's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!! w00t!!!

IT's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!! w00t!!!
Yeah, but it's too bad that it's same ole - same ole (regarding the children on Xmas break clogging it up w/ garbage)

Shoe Repair sign from Ghana c. 1990. Ghana is a major transit hub for Southwest and Southeast Asian heroin. Major infectious diseases include meningococcal meningitis.

Shoe Repair sign from Ghana c. 1990. Ghana is a major transit hub for Southwest and Southeast Asian heroin. Major infectious diseases include meningococcal meningitis.
hmmm. i was trying to figure it out that as a pictogram,,, why is the cobbler wearing womens clothes? those shoes? that dress? those eye lashes? and is that a kitty to the right of the black shoe?

do you have a link to the info about Ghana c. 1990 ?


perplexed.
-lxicon

electron configuration for Iron in stable state: 1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6 4s2 3d6
or
1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6 4s2 3d6
or
one.s.two.two.s.two.two.p.six...


edit: just in case anyone was wondering about non-radioactive metallic elements, and the corresponding notations. :48:

electron configuration for Iron in stable state: 1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6 4s2 3d6
or
1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6 4s2 3d6
or
one.s.two.two.s.two.two.p.six...
edit: just in case anyone was wondering about non-radioactive metallic elements, and the corresponding notations. :48:

NICE! i guess they would have taught me that before i dropped out of the physics program... glad i chose AV/Multimedia after that though!

so, does that notation (stable iron) indicate what could happen to make it unstable can iron become radioactive in some state at all?


p.s. Happy78Face on lost-forum posted the link to the source pic http://www.indigoarts.com/gallery_ghana182.html


have fun!
-lxicon

hmmm. i was trying to figure it out that as a pictogram,,, why is the cobbler wearing womens clothes? those shoes? that dress? those eye lashes? and is that a kitty to the right of the black shoe?

do you have a link to the info about Ghana c. 1990 ?


perplexed.
-lxicon

not sure about the shoes, but the clothing is overalls. could just be the artists style. think it's just a chip from the paint to the right of the black shoe. here's the link to the painting--hard to believe it sold for $285 (interestingly in 11/2004)!

http://www.indigoarts.com/gallery_ghana182.html

EDIT: sorry. didn't see you had already posted the link.

electron configuration for Iron in stable state: 1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6 4s2 3d6
or
1s2 2s2 2p6 3s2 3p6 4s2 3d6
or
one.s.two.two.s.two.two.p.six...


edit: just in case anyone was wondering about non-radioactive metallic elements, and the corresponding notations. :48:

Excellent klalkis, I'd already mentioned the electron configuration of Iron early this morning in the unamed site, and PM'd a couple of Rebellios Rabbits as well.

But what is really important rather than the unamed site, is what would Iron have to do with LOST. Of course, the first thought is magnetism and electromagnetic forces, though specifically what, I don't yet know.

-Mang

Yeah, but it's too bad that it's same ole - same ole (regarding the children on Xmas break clogging it up w/ garbage)

It shall pass... I hope

what is the unamed thread? i missed the rucus if it cant be stated then email it to elhuevonut@yahoo.com

hOLY CRAP,

iS tODELL GONE?
stTEST
checked in. Beagle what the hey is going on?

hOLY CRAP,

iS tODELL GONE?
stTEST
checked in. Beagle what the hey is going on?

it's hit the fan, donger. mods have deleted a HUGE amount of the thread because, well, read it for yourself. i'd explain it, but it still doesn't make a lot of (logical) sense to me. be careful what you say on this thread--the next step for them is to lock it up entirely.

haven't seen todell since it all hit. hope she hasn't become too disheartened....

Hi all: between Christmas being just a couple of days away, and trying to figure out what we can or can't say here, I've been treading cautiously. I haven't had enough time to really draft a statement in response to Karri's last pronouncement, but I've been watching what everyone has been posting with great interest.

What I took out of Karri's statement is that we are not allowed to just type "The Morse code now says blah blah blah" without some sort of theorizing about what that actually means. The mods don't see the connection between the show and the site, so we must start connecting the dots. Everyone has done a great job of that with the new changes, and I applaud y'alls' great work.

Couple of things: lxicon? Do you still have a link to your archives in your sig, or is that just for the computer? It would be helpful to have quick access to your exhaustive archive, and if you want to send me a link, I'll link it to the coded numbers in my signature.

Mang! But what is really important rather than the unamed site, is what would Iron have to do with LOST. Of course, the first thought is magnetism and electromagnetic forces, though specifically what, I don't yet know.

-Mang Remember, some folks figured out a while back that the building Hanso is filmed standing inside of is located in Narvik, Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narvik). During World War II, Narvik was particularly important strategically because of its iron mining industry.

The port of Narvik proved to be strategically valuable in the early years of World War II and the town became a focal point of the Norwegian Campaign. In 1939 Germany's war industry depended upon iron ore extracted in Kiruna and Malmberget in Sweden. During the summer this ore could be shipped to Germany from the Swedish port of Luleå on the Gulf of Bothnia. However, when the Gulf of Bothnia froze during the winter, most of the ore had to be brought from Narvik. The town of Narvik is linked by rail to Sweden, but not to other towns in Norway. As a result, Narvik serves as a gateway to the ore fields of Sweden which cannot be easily reached from southern Norway over land. Then First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill realized that control of Narvik meant stopping most German imports of iron-ore during the winter of 1940, which would be highly advantageous to the Allies and might help shorten the war.

Later in the war, the Allies did go to Narvik, defeated the Germans there, only to later withdraw their troops to defend France, laving Norway to the Nazis. When I started a World War II thread later, Tiberius popped in, and left me a clue about The Shetland Bus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland_Bus), which was a route that Norweigan resisters used to go to Scotland during the war. Also, remember that Hanso first made his name during World War II:

He first made his mark during the Second World War, providing munitions to various resistance movements around Europe. After the War, Hanso became the leading purveyor of high-technology armaments to NATO.


Did Hanso have something to do with the Shetland Bus route? Was he in Narvik during the war? Why? Was it because of their mining industry? He was an arms dealer, and that's why Narvik was so important to the War itself: it provided the iron to make weapons.

Passenger 23 asked Javi (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27106&highlight=narvik) (I feel like I'm always refrencing your questions to Javi, Dino! You ask the best questions, I suppose) a question regarding the filmstrip, and here was Javi's answer:

the man in the window is indeed alvar hanso - what he was doing in narvik, at that window, remains shrouded in mystery. alvar hanso is an extremely mysterious and reclusive man who protects his privacy jealously...

thanks for ther question!

ja
vi

Note the emphasis on what was Hanso doing in Narvik. As though Hanso shouldn't be in Narvik...as though that's not where the Hanso Foundation is located...

Sorry to ramble on and on. Long story short: the iron clues that we have been given on The Site (and there have been many: Narvik's Heavy Metals, Magnet and Steel, possibly 2FeNO6)) I think tie into Narvik's history during the War. It just eludes me how. Was Hanso originally going to the island to mine a potentially large bit of iron ore for his weapons business, and they discovered that whatever it was they were mining didn't act like iron at all? That it had special properties? Did this change Hanso's ultimate plans? Or was he going to the island for those special properties all along? Was it an important element (pun intended) for his real goal: a super-weapon?

Perhaps! Perhaps he always knew about the island's special properties, and he tricked his employees into thinking they were going there to mine iron, just like he tricked the researchers into thinking that they were going there to work on a Utopian social experiment.

2FeNO6 anyone? (or is it 2FeN06?)

As far as the Ghana cobbler: beats me. All I can think is that there is a lot of focus on shoes on the show: think Kate removing the shoes from the dead body early on, Locke removing his shoes in the hatch, the others missing their shoes and not leaving tracks. Perhaps I'm making too much out of it...

I think the real focus is on Africa/Ghana and "King Jesus," and all of the religious allusions we have on the show. Perhaps! Perhaps it is a hint that our African friend, Eko, is Christian? (although we already knew that, I guess, with his story about Josiah) Maybe it is to direct our focus on him and his faith?

Sorry to go on so long--but no worries! I'm still here, and I'm still long-winded!

As far as the Ghana cobbler: beats me. All I can think is that there is a lot of focus on shoes on the show: think Kate removing the shoes from the dead body early on, Locke removing his shoes in the hatch, the others missing their shoes and not leaving tracks. Perhaps I'm making too much out of it...



Perhaps the shoes/soles are visual metaphors for Islanders souls. Cobblers save and fix soles of shoes, so perhaps this is allegorical for saving/fixing the souls of the Islanders, as an experimental test case for a macroscopic Dharma/Hanso vision for saving mankind by remaking earth by their vision and in their image...a Hanso-rifically ambitious and incredibly dangerous undertaking for mere mortals...

-Mang

P.S. Thanks for the Iron reminder, as I'd long forgotten that Alvar tidbit; you don't need to reply on my electronic orbital PM then...

Mang: love the soul idea! Very very clever.

So, for those of you who have been reading the thread for a while, you may remember that oceanicairlines.com was one of my other favorite weirdo sites. (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=538725&highlight=oceanicairlines.com#post538725) The last thing they had posted was a "Our site is down for maintenance, sorry for the inconvenience" message, with "Your overconfidence is your weakness" in invisible text. I found this curious as it was what Karen DeGroot told me on the chat after I started asking her some questions in the early days of the chat board.

Well. Now it redirects to the oceanic-air site. Why? Did they get tired of posting new things on it? Did someone tell them to? Are they going to change it again? Is this important at all?

Perhaps the shoes/soles are visual metaphors for Islanders souls. Cobblers save and fix soles of shoes, so perhaps this is allegorical for saving/fixing the souls of the Islanders, as an experimental test case for a macroscopic Dharma/Hanso vision for saving mankind by remaking earth by their vision and in their image...a Hanso-rifically ambitious and incredibly dangerous undertaking for mere mortals...
Mang...great observation...am going to quote you on my "Jin's Seoul Gateway Hotel = Soul Gateway?" thread...

OK rabbits.

I have lurked without posting, my intellect may not measure up. Anyway, was looking into some stuff for another thread. I am not sure if this will help, but, it did seem very interesting in light of this cobbler stuff. It is a story of an Angel who questions the wisdom of the almighty. He is then sent to Earth as a cobbler to learn some lessons.

Check it out here (http://spirituality.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1138598,curpg-1.cms).

For starters, Livin, no one should question your intellect.

Secondly, thank you for the cobbler angel link. I tried looking for cobbler fairy tales, and came up empty-handed. But you found a great, and applicable story. Many thanks!

Of course, the converse could also be true to my soul/sole thoughts, instead of Hanso soul purging and reformation on a macrosopic test scale, to be scaled up to globalized reformation.

Perhaps instead this denotes the import of true soul redemption on the Islands, for true catharsis and rememberance and realignment to what is truly important, and a lesson on how how to get humankind back on the right track. Of course, 'tis the Seaon, and this other angle would be quite topically appropriate as such...

-Mang

Of course, the converse could also be true to my soul/sole
-Mang

converse..... sole.....

Mang,
You have such a way with words!

For starters, Livin, no one should question your intellect.

Secondly, thank you for the cobbler angel link. I tried looking for cobbler fairy tales, and came up empty-handed. But you found a great, and applicable story. Many thanks!
I found quite a few under folktales, folklore. Cobbler/Shoemaker

Mang! Remember, some folks figured out a while back that the building Hanso is filmed standing inside of is located in Narvik, Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narvik). During World War II, Narvik was particularly important strategically because of its iron mining industry.


Posted previously about Narvik and WW2 here:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27677

as well as other little tidbits, but the info is good in relation. Pics showing the fountain is in the dharma shape. Worth checking out if interested.

OK rabbits.
I have lurked without posting, my intellect may not measure up. Anyway, was looking into some stuff for another thread. I am not sure if this will help, but, it did seem very interesting in light of this cobbler stuff. It is a story of an Angel who questions the wisdom of the almighty. He is then sent to Earth as a cobbler to learn some lessons.
Check it out here (http://spirituality.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1138598,curpg-1.cms).
cool! i like the bit about "The only way he could return and be with the Almighty once again was by laughing at his plight three times" makes me think about the whole catharsis vs. purgatory thing. it seems that all the survivors have "sins" (for lack of a better word) to attone for. maybe in letting go of their past problems and learning to live hapilly on the island, they can attain some sort of redemption? -that didn't come out quite right but something along those lines.
* oh and there was the goodwin quote about the tailies who were killed not being "good" people (i forget the exact quote or if was goodwin who said it.. i think it was)

p.s. i changed my sig back to the archive link. the computer link was left over from when that site went "live". it is not needed anyomore.


have fun!
-lxicon

I don't know if anyone has noted this, but apparently, on the site, there are hidden images within the images. You must use the same steggography programs to decipher them. However, if you're like me, and completely inept, the images are here, thanks to dragon44's post on TWoP.
(http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3127338&view=findpost&p=4209789)

The original picture. (http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zealand1ed.jpg)

The first hidden picture. (http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=derevocer0ki.jpg)

Within the image abve is yet another hidden picture:
The second hidden picture. (http://img457.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cratere4gc.jpg)

Apparently, the first hidden picture corresponds to an image that Walt gave someone on the chat when he was asked "What else can you tell us about Dharma?"

The original image that Walt gave was this. (http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d171/jkomg/Roskilde.jpg)

Roskilde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskilde), (the name of the last pic I just gave) is a town near Copenhagen, on an island named Zealand. (Zealand was the name of the very first pic, too. The weird Dharma one was "derevocer0ki," and the picture of the beach was called "cratere4gc")

Hmmm..Something is rotten in the State of Denmark...

Thoughts?

Might not have anything to do with Dharma, Hanso and so on: The Roskilde Festival (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskilde_Festival) is a very famous one. Not only in Europe.

The 'original' pic (never seen it before) reminds me of the vodka bottles that Jack got on the plane.

Might not have anything to do with Dharma, Hanso and so on: The Roskilde Festival (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roskilde_Festival) is a very famous one. Not only in Europe.

The 'original' pic (never seen it before) reminds me of the vodka bottles that Jack got on the plane.

and the logo on desmond's shirt in the stadium. Raffles academy (http://www.ri.sch.edu.sg/), or something like it? Note its insignia

and the logo on desmond's shirt in the stadium. Raffles academy (http://www.ri.sch.edu.sg/), or something like it? Note its insignia

Right. But scepter and orb were missing on these logos iirc.
The double eagle always was used as a symbol by many communities.

What I found interesting was Raffles' motto: "The Hope of a Better Age"

The site that must not be named (bigspaceship1.com) now only says "catoms" again, which of course are related to nanotechnology, and claytronics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claytronics). In poking around in the nanotechnology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotechnology) arena, I noticed something curious (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-04/uotj-nma040505.php):

"More than one third of the population of rural areas in Africa, Asia, and Latin America has no clean water, and two million children die each year from water-related diseases, such as diarrhea, cholera, typhoid, and schistosomiasis, which result from a lack of adequate water sources and sanitation."

Nano-membranes and nano-clays are inexpensive, portable and easily cleaned systems that purify, detoxify and desalinate water more efficiently than conventional bacterial and viral filters. Researchers also have developed a method of large-scale production of carbon nano-tube filters for water quality improvement.

Other water applications include systems (based on titanium dioxide and on magnetic nano-particles) that decompose organic pollutants and remove salts and heavy metals from liquids, enabling the use of heavily contaminated and salt water for irrigation and drinking. Several of the contaminating substances retrieved could then be easily recycled.


Titanium dioxide? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide)

Sayid uses a piece of titanium to try to break into a part of the hatch, and Tiberius gave this clue a while back:

The First Sons of Gaia

From the Ilmen mountains
Anorthosite province
Rogaland and Tellnes
Menachite
Symbol of Ti
Number 22

From Black Sand to this LOST place

Tiberius

Titanium dioxide, also known as titanium(IV) oxide or titania, is the naturally occurring oxide of titanium, chemical formula TiO2. When used as a pigment, it is called titanium white or Pigment White 6.

Black Sand -- White Sand?

An interesting note on the wikipedia site regarding nanotechnology concerns some of the potential risks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotechnology#Poison.2FToxicity):

Poison/Toxicity

For the near-term, critics of nanotechnology point to the potential toxicity of new classes of nanosubstances that could adversely affect the stability of cell membranes or disturb the immune system when inhaled or digested. Objective risk assessment can profit from the bulk of experience with long-known microscopic materials like carbon soot or asbestos fibres.

There is a possibility that nanoparticles in drinking water could be dangerous to humans and/or other animals. Colon cells exposed to nano titanium dioxide particles have been found to decay at a quicker than normal rate. Titanium dioxide nanoparticles are often used in sunscreens, as they make them transparent, compared to bigger titanium dioxide particles, which make the sunscreen appear white.

I don't think titanium dioxide poisoning is the sickness, per se, but I find it interesting that nano-particles of titanium dioxide can contaminate water, as well as purify it. I've been wondering about the water supply on the island lately (and have contemplated starting a new thread on it: but have yet to do the proper searches to see if there's anything out there already...). Heavy metal poisoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_poisoning) can cause a variety of illnesses.

Symptoms will vary, depending on the nature and the quantity of the heavy metal ingested. Affected people may complain of nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, headache, sweating, and a metallic taste in the mouth. Depending on the metal, there may be blue-black lines in the gum tissues. In severe cases, people exhibit obvious impairment of cognitive, motor, and language skills. The expression "mad as a hatter" comes from the mercury poisoning prevalent in seventeenth-century France among hat makers who soaked animal hides in a solution of mercuric nitrate to soften the hair.
Also, see shootfire's post (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=681637#post681637) over on another monster thread.

I suppose I have multiple questions: is a heavy metal source on the island causing the sickness? Were nano-particles of titanium dioxide being used to purify the water sources? Are they still? Was it effective, or are the Losties' water sources still contaminated? Is the titanium dioxide (if it is present) itself toxic?

Also, I know that Oceanicworldair.com (http://oceanicworldair.com/flights.htm) has been debunked as a fan site, but I love the creepy snowman pic they've linked to. Note the bunny. (http://www.magda-gallery.com/img/peck10.jpg)

(sorry if you read the bulk of this post on Tib's thread! I thought it was relevant to both places, though...)

De-Contaminating heavy metals from water can also be linked with fission / fusion operations in the nuclear realm. The unique magnetic properties of the island, along with the geothermal generator could be some type of cleaning system to decontaminate water from a fission / fusion reactor of some type.

My thoughts on this would drift to the direction of fusion reactors for the purpose of generating enough energy to produce time travel. The generally accepted belief is that the main sticking point to time travel is that it is impossible to produce enough energy to achieve it. Theory holds that fusion would produce energy many orders of magniude greater than conventional fission reactors, and possibly produce this.

The sickness could be radiation sickness.

OK, I have just submitted my first psuedo-scientific theory.

All you greater minds may now tear it to shreds with your greater intellect and understanding of true science.

The morse code now reads "So long and thanks for all the fish." My whole theory is gonna be shot out of the water if this site goes down.
Racka-frackin' carrot-chewin' varmints!
I gots too close to the truth, I tells ya!


"So long and thanks for all the fish" is the farewell of the dolphins leaving Earth at the end of the "Hichhickers Guide to the Galaxy". If you recall, the major question in that movie was "what is the meaning of life?" The answer was "42". 42 being one of "The Numbers" on LOST. mean anything? I dunno, just made the connection.

Thank you, Danger Kitty, for that. There were a number of weird Hitchhiker references in the Morse code for a while there (as there was on the Tiberius thread), but they seem to have petered out as of late.

Captain, I'm all for the time travel idea. I actually believe that the island was meant to serve as some sort of time travel gateway/portal, and thus all the references in the show to gates and porters (see Tabby Rasa's great thread on Jin's Seoul Gateway (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=29401)). I know that the creators have said that time is an important theme on the show, and this created a flurry of questions about when the plane crashed. However, I don't think it's important when the plane crashed. I think the real question is how is time passing on the island.

I also have some questions about whether its a time portal, or some sort of inter-dimensional travel thing going on (I am really science illiterate, so bear with me...). Sort of both maybe? They intended to design a sort of time machine, but what happens is that they are slipping between parallel universes? That in attempting to move through time, they are creating branches off of this universe, and perhaps the Others have special properties that allow them to travel back and forth between these parellel universes? This is how Walt is communicating? These are the Whispers? I don't know. Help. Someone. Who knows more about string theory and quantum mechanics. You're my only hope.

(But I've got this groovy idea going with my sister, cmcd, that Hanso has multiple projects going on: 1. to design a perfect, immortal super-soldier, and 2. time travel. Perhaps he ultimately wants to go back in time to alter the outcome of a war or two? I don't know. Just reeeealllly reaching here. But there are a few World War II references here and there and I was just trying to tie it altogether. Also, early on The Site TMNBN, there were hidden maps for locations in Paris (http://www.popcornfilms.com/Lost%20Game/mousecheese.png) -- remember those? (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=538422&highlight=paris#post538422)-- and instructions for meetings. It reminded me of the French Resistance during the War. The questions are numerous: What are they meeting about? Who are they? Why must they meet in secret? Who/what don't they want to find out about their meetings?)

Anyway.

One more item, in a post on the Danielle Talked About Those Who Wanted to Leave thread, bigmouth posted a snippet (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=681891#post681891) from Solitary that I had completely forgotten about:

Hurley: What are you guys doing out in the jungle at night?

Ethan: Best time to hunt.

Locke: Ethan here has some experience, spotted some tracks, looked like they might be rabbit or some other rodent.


It is an interesting mirror of the exchange Nathan and Bernard had in "The Other 48 Days" about building a rabbit trap:

[Bernard and Nathan setting a trap.]

BERNARD: Are we really going to be able to catch rabbits with this?

NATHAN: Oh yeah, give me another stick.

I know the intention was to correlate Ethan with Nathan (and I have a whole thought about that, which is as crazy as my WWII idea above, and related to the time travel idea-- but I'll save it for later...), but I also think it is a suggestion that there are other people on the island. Note that it is right after Nathan says this that Ana-Lucia kicks him in the head and drops him in a trap. It is also soon after the Ethan/Locke exchange that Ethan catches Claire and Charlie and drags them back to wherever he comes from. The ideas that the hunters are the hunted, and that the Losties can not trust each other, because they aren't the only ones on the island seem to be (albeit loosely) tied to the rabbit image. Because they are all ultimately bunnies in Hanso's trap?

.....I also have some questions about whether its a time portal, or some sort of inter-dimensional travel thing going on (I am really science illiterate, so bear with me...). Sort of both maybe? They intended to design a sort of time machine, but what happens is that they are slipping between parallel universes? That in attempting to move through time, they are creating branches off of this universe, and perhaps the Others have special properties that allow them to travel back and forth between these parellel universes?.....

I have been thinking along different lines, but with a similar thought process.

I have not really been thinking along the parellel universe lines, except as to where it pertains to splintering timelines.

My thinking is that the DeGroots and the foundation were performing some type of temporal experiment having to do with the stated goal of turning the world into a utopian society (ie...maybe to study the dinosaurs, maybe to stop the holocaust, maybe to bring back the unicorns....), but, perhaps unknowingly, with Hanso's ulterier motive of some more sinister research. (Perhaps weapons, or immortality)

Following this course of reasoning (guessing!), the incident could be anything from a containment breach on a fusion reactor that must be vented periodically, to a paradox that was rectified by sending something or someone back or forward into a timeline, and can only be prevented from reoccuring by keeping that something or someone who was sent back from returning to the present timeline by "pressing the button".

I know, it sounds far fetched, but most of the theories for time travel are just that, theories, and can not be proven or disproven until sufficient energy can be generated to do so. Present technology does not have the capability to generate such power, but most theorists agree that fusion reaction would produce unbelievable amounts of energy.

That being said, this, though probably completely wrong, goes along with what TPTB have said about the show being easily explained by "science or psuedo-science".

Wow really, truely some wonderful brain storming going on here. As a matter of fact I was looking thru The Hanso Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hanso_Foundation) and thought I would share this with you all. It's interesting that ABC's LOST series has made it to the dictionary. Check out the last update on the wikipedia for this site on Hanso. That's at the very bottom of the page. I was going thru the wiki dictionary looking up the 7 experiments, tests etc from the foundation (listed to the right) and went to accelerated remote viewing and Juxtapositional Eugenics and it took me to this page under Hanso. Just thought I would throw this in the mix. :p

Following the line of thought regarding time travel / time inconsistancies / spooky action from a distance... If TPTB aren't pulling our legs in regards to the whole "LOST is based in what is known in science," then the only known (and scientifically proven) way to travel through time (other than the standard forward through time at one second per second) was theorized by Einstein in 1905. The closer one travels to the cosmic speed limit of the speed of light, the slower that time travels for that person relative to a stationary observer. Other theories built upon the Theory of Relativity have shown that it is theoretically possible to travel backward in time by travelling near light speed through a wormhole several times successively. But, the cost of travelling near light speed is greater the faster you go, as your mass approaches infinity the closer you get to the speed of light.

True, Kung Fu, but that is science. It doesn't have to be real, or even acheivable, to be science, only documented and accepted as a possible theory, or a given fact.

TPTB have made the statement that all can be explained through science or "psuedo-science".

By definition, the word "psuedo-science" gives any writer a whole lot of wiggle room when it comes down to realism, doesn't it?

True, Kung Fu, but that is science. It doesn't have to be real, or even acheivable, to be science, only documented and accepted as a possible theory, or a given fact.

I agree, wit wat ye says, Cap'n.

TPTB have made the statement that all can be explained through science or "psuedo-science".

By definition, the word "psuedo-science" gives any writer a whole lot of wiggle room when it comes down to realism, doesn't it?

Yeah, I know: the pseudo-science thing bothers me. That could encompass everything from observations of quantum mechanics (which is weird, and hardly understandable, but nevertheless is based on observation and can be repeated; ergo has a scientific base of thought), or could it be based Jethro's observations at the mini-mart/gas station of them pesky aliens that have been landing in the field down the way that have been mutilating cattle and his claims that they performed experiments involving probes on him. (Yet, physical evidence doesn't exist or it is inconclusive, and/or can't be repeated).

Pseudo-science gives more wiggle room than an anorexic wearing a circus tent covered with ants. It would be a darned shame if TPTB went that route, especially when science can be much more interesting.

Yes, it could go in an infinite number of directions with the term "psuedo-science", and you can make an infinite number of guesses on the direction of the plot line. The thought that nothing in this show is "sci-fi" is a bit unrealistic.

That is one of the reasons that I have been a fan of this thread and Todell since I stumbled upon it, and one of the reasons this thread (IMHO) has maintained such a long life and such loyal readers.(Todell is to be congratulated for a grand theory, and for being open to such nitwits as myself espounding or altering it to fit their own theories. :::applause for Todell::: )

The mythical Philadelphia Experiment was grounded in the real science of Tesla Coils

The fictional Warp Drive of Star Trek is grounded in the real science of the Theroy of Relativity. http://www.astro.cf.ac.uk/groups/relativity/papers/abstracts/miguel94a.html

The Heisenberg compensator on the transporters on Star Trek are a plot device to answer a generally accepted theory of chaotic behavior at the sub-atomic level in Quantum Physics. Therefore they are grounded in that real science.


The "psuedo-science" term allows your imagination to really wander, and can explain away alot of inconsistent things when some of the more literal people begin looking for "the grande explanation".

Lots of wiggle room.

But, by the same token, I would not want all of the happenings on the island, and in the show, to be simply explained away by common knowledge, and I (though I know I am in the minority on this board) will not mind too much if there is a sci-fi element to the solutions, when and if all the answers come out.

There is so much sci-fi that is founded on real sciene that that term really makes it impossible to say something is "founded in "psuedo-science" but is not sci-fi."

Sometimes it is better fiction and more entertaining if it really is a flying saucer, not just a weather balloon. :biggrin:

Here, here!! I agree CaptainKidd. Bring on the Sci-fi, paranormal and all that good stuff. How can we sit back and watch this great show and not see the sci-fi nature coming at us. I want to see some ET's and a newer take on ET spacecraft ;)

Why should everything be specifically on the island. It has got to have a great deal to do with space. After all, space is the final frontier. Big brother is long gone. Bring ont the satellite phenomenon.

Sorry, I get a little carried away.

Thanks for you support, fancyface.

II don't know about space, the final frontiers, and ET, because I can't see (at this moment anyway, but I reserve the right to change my mind due to unknown or unforeseen plot twists) how they would fit it into the mythology that they are building into the show. but if it ends up something to do with Paralell Universes, or Time Travel, or Phase Theory, or something else that is presented in a manner that will allow me to suspend my disbelief, then I am all on board.

I think Todell's theory of the original experiments is going down the right road, and that the key experiment leading to the plight of our little band of travellers is obviously bound into the "unusual magnetic properties" on that part of the island, and specifically, under the Swan Station.

I merely threw my own pitiful observations and opinions into a theory that takes into account my own leanings.
Magnetic Fields....Tesla Coils....Radiation.... All these things have been inexorably linked to time travel through out science fiction, and that is why my mind tends to lean this way.

Anyway you look at it, though, I definitely get a vibe that
They ain't in Kansas no more.

That's funny, no, they're not in Kansas anymore. I'm in full agreement on some of the theories I have read about Magnetic Fields. Especially since the core of our own planet grounds us from north to south. I read a lot. And, yes, I always put my disclaimer in regarding the right to change my mind at any given moment.

This is just the kind of thread we needed at this stage in the game, so to say. Very good indeed-e-do.

I'm gonna have to agree with Fancyface on this one, I'm leaning toward space here... The large "underground" (or is it overground?) shelter, the odd behavior of the magnetic compass, the absence of radio conversation off of the island, the absence of NOAA satellite detection of an airline disaster, the absence of native islanders (Micronesians, Melanesians or Polynesians), absence of the Black Box global locator that would have sent out a signal for about 24 hours (to an NOAA satellite), the odd behavior of golf balls hit by Dr. Jack (can you say Coriolis Force?), not to mention the advantages of working in space with electromagnetic forces and cryogenics. Just read my first post in the Lage, I used to have a whole thread, but for some reason, TPTB felt they had to expunge it along with 1/4 (?) of this thread and another I frequented in which I posted my thoughts. http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=537486&postcount=86

Don't get me wrong, I am all for science fiction on this one, I just dont want it to devolve into "the Subterranian Genetically Altered Neo-Nazi Gnomes that live under the Devil's Triangle used their Tesla Coil to bring down the plane to an uncharted island of approximately 60 square miles (or more) on planet Earth that seems to have escaped detection by satellites for the last 40+ years, and mankind for the 8-10,000 years". Who would be suspending disbelief in that situation? I can easily see that this is heading to a space situation.

I'm also with Todell, who I must give kudos to also, if not for her and everyone else on this thread, I feel my theory would have fizzled out, but it seems everytime new info comes out, I feel my particular theory is strengthened (probably in addition to everyone else feeling that way about their pet theories). :::More Applause to Todell:::

Anyway, I guess my beef would be a move away from sci-fi (based in science) and a move to fantasy (based in pseudo-science, paranormal, or folklore). The show shows on my satellite tv as sci-fi, not fantasy. I know that I may be asking for too much, but I would prefer a show that wasn't a ride on the mystical short bus of the mind, and was more of a scientifically-based (and not necessarily acheivable with today's technology) roller-coaster of fact, reality, physics, math and truth. I don't even mind the occasional stretch of what is achievable (e.g. The Heisenberg Compensator: perfect example... one would need a computer the size of a Red Star and a few extra million years and a huge amount of energy to "beam" around the place with today's current technology(due to quantum entanglement); but nevertheless, artistic license allows for a really cool way of getting around).

I hope nobody takes exception to my thoughts on Tesla Coils, The Devil's Triangle, Gnomes, or any Subterranian species. In my book, they (except subterranian species) rate up there with Chupacabra, "the Force" (Sorry Mr. Lucas), and elves. Interesting, scary, and/or funny stories are involved with all of them, but no science (or very little in the case of Nicola's Coil) to back them up. (I do think there is a time & place for fantasy, but it seems to creep into the most reliable shows nowadays.)

I read through your Thread (link you provided) KUNG FU ZOO, and I'm impressed. That's the kind of sci-fi I was referring to as well. Especially in reference to the magazine Walt was looking at. I know that was a huge clue for us Lostie fans. And, it's very space age for this time in our lives, here on Planet Earth. Star Trek, Star Wars and so many more of the great sci-fi adventure movies and TV series that came out, seems like eons ago, were very far fetched in their day, but not so much to us now. We were told by the producers to look to the sky. This would make a great deal of sense, if, in fact the experiments were of a time travel nature to another planet. It would surely explain a great deal. However, I'm also leaning toward the fact that we don't have it quite solved yet. At least I hope not, for the sake of the continuance of the series.

There are some fairly wealthy folks out there, right now, that are investing in private travel to space. Millions of dollars will be a drop in the bucket for them. That is once it's good to go. Pretty awesome, and so it makes perfect sense that the story could be of this nature, for this time in history. We could see this as "old television" in 10-15 years. I remember when The XFiles first came out. Such great writing and the stories were always so intriguing. I was a bit disappointed in the finale. You could tell they were running out of inspiration in the last few years. Again, it was the highest rated show on TV for many years running.

Try not to be bitter about the loss of your words. It's a drain on good positive energy. They were read and appreciated. Just keep on posting and having fun with it. Sounds like you have a book or two in you anyway. This situation you have very little, to no control over, and, your point is and has been well taken. I understand because it happened to me on a forum I participate on in Europe, which will remain confidential as I still enjoy participating with them.

Thanks for the links. I really appreciate your sharing those. Have you seen this one, just started recently, and a good read, so far. It's in here with the General Theories/Speculation, so I hope it's OK to post it so you or anyone else that doesn't know about it here on the LAGE, can go and read it. Mr. Paik's screens: Island, Eye of the Island? - The Fuselage (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=29736) It just moves right along with my own personal theory (s), as I have several and reserve the right to change my mind about these theories at any given moment. ;) Let me know what you see.

regards,
Fancyface

As you say, Kung Fu. I am only worried about the sci-fi aspect if it devolves into something so outlandish, or fantasy oriented, that it is complely unbelievable.

I take no offence at anything you have said. I was only trying to make the point that there is a lot of sci-fi is so grounded in actual science, that there is almost no way that the term "psuedo-science" can be used, and sci-fi can be completely ruled out, or dismissed.

Science Fiction can be entertaining, believable, and captivating.
Or it can be unbelievable, cartoonish, boarish and juvenile.

I just can't understand why people are so negative about the mention of sci-fi, while being so entertained and eraptured by something that obviously has such strong elements of sci-fi in it.

Howdy FancyFace ~
I read through your Thread (link you provided) KUNG FU ZOO, and I'm impressed. Thanks :^)
...magazine Walt was looking at. I know that was a huge clue for us Lostie fans. I agree. Lots of directions to go just based on the comic alone (some may be valid in regards to the show, others a may not pan out)
And, it's very space age for this time in our lives, here on Planet Earth. So true. I believe space travel & space industry that seemed such a sci-fi strech in the past (and even now) will go the way other sci-fi topics in the past like airplanes, jets, skyscrapers, robots, and communication satellites (even nanotech). We were told by the producers to look to the sky. Yep. However, I'm also leaning toward the fact that we don't have it quite solved yet. I agree, I believe there are several facets of this jewel of a show that are too brilliant to ignore, and others that remain hidden as surprises to be revealed henceforth. At least I hope not, for the sake of the continuance of the series. True, but I think the creative team could continue with the show as more scientific knowledge comes to light (and let me tell you, this is an amazing time for scientific discovery).

There are some fairly wealthy folks out there, right now, that are investing in private travel to space.Can you say Burt Rutan and Sir Richard Branson? Pretty awesome, and so it makes perfect sense that the story could be of this nature, for this time in history. Having a minor in history, I see the parallalisms between now and the 1920's-30's, when the air travel industry began it's ascent into the earthly heavens (pun intended).

Try not to be bitter about the loss of your words. No, not bitter, just disappointed. There were about one hundred entries on the thread, in much more detail than the few entries you read of the link I provided above. It all seems like a futile waste of time looking back on it now. It's a drain on good positive energy. I have my thoughts on energy: positive needs balance, and negative is that balance, even neutral (being grounded) is desired. All three at once is best (at least when alternating currents between polar opposites are present, when being direct, one doesn't need to be grounded). During the recent shocking dump of electronic information, I felt shorted, but I couldn't resist in chanting that ancient mantra ~ Ohm ~ and my thoughts moved on to a great philosopher who was chastized for believing that there was a great deal of energy in everything around us, and if certain conditions were met, that energy could be freed. People discouned the philosopher, until his ideas walked the Planck. They were taken to the Max. Then the world changed.
I am, of course, being facetious, my puns and physics humor (oxymoron?) wasting space on this precious thread. Nonetheless, you are coming in loud and clear, no love lost with the Lage, but I have begun the process of moving my ideas to a new forum, where I can find my own equivalent Planck to walk.

Thanks for the links. I really appreciate your sharing those. You're welcome. Thanks for yours as well, I have read that also. It does have some interesting points of interest regarding the storyline. Hmm, How is Mr. Paik involved?

CaptainKidd (Can I call you Capn'? - it's just the inner pirate screaming to get out) As you say, Kung Fu. I am only worried about the sci-fi aspect if it devolves into something so outlandish, or fantasy oriented, that it is complely unbelievable. Precisely. I doubt it will go that way, or at least I hope it doesn't.

I take no offence at anything you have said. I was only trying to make the point that there is a lot of sci-fi is so grounded in actual science, that there is almost no way that the term "psuedo-science" can be used, and sci-fi can be completely ruled out, or dismissed. Sweet.


Science Fiction can be entertaining, believable, and captivating.
Or it can be unbelievable, cartoonish, boarish and juvenile.

So true.


I just can't understand why people are so negative about the mention of sci-fi, while being so entertained and eraptured by something that obviously has such strong elements of sci-fi in it.
True. Sci-Fi has blazed the trail in the past for where science has later trod.

Capn' I shall be, if you wish to call me so.

I, too, am a pirate. 200 years too late.
But, now, the cannon don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder,
I'm an over 40 victim of fate.

kung fu, Howdy back at cha! Enjoyed your response. Flying and anything that goes high up into the sky and heavens is my personal hobby. I had the privilege of meeting with both Rutan brothers on a short flying trip to Mohave. Challenges, you gotta love'em. Stay centered my friend. Enlighten us where ever you decide to post.

Capn' I shall be, if you wish to call me so.

I, too, am a pirate. 200 years too late.
But, now, the cannon don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder,
I'm an over 40 victim of fate.

Capn, so ye be dubed. Let me break out the violin, as anyone over 40 is surely in need of a sob song. teehee:biggrin: What! The cannon don't thunder. Mercy, I declare ! Honey hush!

Capn' I shall be, if you wish to call me so.

I, too, am a pirate. 200 years too late.
But, now, the cannon don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder,
I'm an over 40 victim of fate.

Aye, Capn', ye tries te make yerself sound like a scurvy dog:
No cannon... no plunder... Well, Avast, Capn'!
Ye shant be goin' on like a Dredgie! Grab yer blackjack and yer grog!

Commandeer yonder vessel and call yer cockswain!
Bein' pirate is about how's yer head inside...
Arrrrrrrrrr....

kung fu, Howdy back at cha! Enjoyed your response. Flying and anything that goes high up into the sky and heavens is my personal hobby. I had the privilege of meeting with both Rutan brothers on a short flying trip to Mohave. Challenges, you gotta love'em. Stay centered my friend. Enlighten us where ever you decide to post.

You are sooo lucky, That is a dream I have always wanted to do: piloting a plane. I've flown in them, jumped out of them, flew simulations of them, but never piloted one (other than like 30 seconds of flying with a family friend when I was 12). So you met the Rutan brothers in Mohave? That is cool. Was that before or after Voyager and/or SpaceShipOne?

Capn, so ye be dubed. Let me break out the violin, as anyone over 40 is surely in need of a sob song. teehee:biggrin: What! The cannon don't thunder. Mercy, I declare ! Honey hush!

Arrrrr, the lovely siren wants te serenade ye Capn'...
Avast, Capn'! Ye still can make te beauties swoon smartly,
Even if yer cannon is silent, Arrrrrr.....

Hello...? To quote Pink Floyd, is anybody out there? Has the Rabbit Revolution lost it's hop? Has the great info dump of '05 taken the rebellion out of the rabbits?

Stay tuned next week (especially around mid-week) and we'll see...

Hello...? To quote Pink Floyd, is anybody out there? Has the Rabbit Revolution lost it's hop? Has the great info dump of '05 taken the rebellion out of the rabbits?

Stay tuned next week (especially around mid-week) and we'll see...

lol, kung fu.....i'm still hoppin' like a madwoman, er dog, er rabbit! (yeah, that's the ticket...)

No--the Rabbits of the Revolution will not be oppressed!

I've been helping the ladies over at the Long Lost List get it ready--fixing links and setting up posts, and I haven't been able to post over here for a little while.

I wanted to add that all the applause you sent my way last week was misdirected. I don't deserve the credit for keeping the thread going. Everyone here is intelligent and insightful. Keep it up, y'all! ***clap clap clap***

One other thing: on the chat someone claimed that the site tmnbn was updated on the "number" days. I was disappointed that nothing happened on Wed. So, I guess we should check again on Sunday. Sigh. I'm sick of catoms.

Anyway. Back to the long list. Gotta hop!

Well, the site that must not be named has not changed, but oceanicairlines.com has. It now takes you to a google search on "Angelus Kaduna."

Kaduna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaduna) is a city in Nigeria, and the Angelus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus) is a Catholic prayer that relates to Mary. Interesting. It looks like John Paul recited it in Kaduna, Nigeria in 1982, according to the link at the top of the page.

Eko? Is our Eko a Catholic? (and I still contend that he was on the drug plane. Until they show me otherwise, I'm sticking to my guns on this one...)

Well, the site that must not be named has not changed, but oceanicairlines.com (http://oceanicairlines.com) has. It now takes you to a google search on "Angelus Kaduna."

Kaduna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaduna) is a city in Nigeria, and the Angelus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus) is a Catholic prayer that relates to Mary. Interesting. It looks like John Paul recited it in Kaduna, Nigeria in 1982, according to the link at the top of the page.

Eko? Is our Eko a Catholic? (and I still contend that he was on the drug plane. Until they show me otherwise, I'm sticking to my guns on this one...)

You've been a busy rabbit Todell. I've read through of few of the links you provided for us. Without any question, I would say Mr. Eko is a Catholic. He has provided that insight to is on a few occasions. I'm on the fence about him already having been on the island via the drug plane. Maybe if he hadn't been wearing a suit. Within the few days that we saw him in TO48D epi, he no longer had much of that suit left. He barely has a shirt for obvious reasons. I don't think the drug plane has been there for very long though. What was your take on this. I guess I could go back through your posts and find it, but would you indulge me?

I'm more than happy to indulge you, fancy!

When I first watched 48 days, I kept getting a sense that Eko became tense when Ana would go off on her paranoid rants that Nathan wasn't on the plane. As if he was worried that she'd start to notice that other people may have not been on the plane, either...it was in his reactions. But then, when I started thinking about it, what most stood out to me was how quickly Eko killed the Others on the first night that they attacked. Eko kills two people before the rest of the tailies even wake up--it was if he knew that something would happen come nightfall, he waited up, and killed the Others when they arrived. Had he had experience with them before? Also, Eko seems to know a great deal about the Others when he and Jin go after Michael, but when has he had a chance to see them in action? Ana has been keeping a close eye on the tailies. Perhaps he has been in the jungle fending off the Others this whole time, much like Danielle?

And the suit? How is he wearing a pristine suit at the time of the crash?

Well, go back to Deus Ex Machina. Locke receives a vision of the Nigerian drug plane crashing. He is given a vision of the past. What if Eko, who was on that plane, is given a vision of the future--of flight 815 crashing? It closes the circle nicely, for one thing. Locke sees Eko's plane crash--Eko sees Locke's plane crash. What if he was given this vision and understood it. He gets a suit out of his crash site (remember, the drug plane did not catch fire, or get pulled into the ocean--the items inside would still be in fairly good shape), or perhaps he has found a suit in one of the hatches, I don't know. But he understands that there's nothing he can do to prevent the crash, all he can do is be prepared, wait for the event and help where he can. There is one catch--some spoilers have suggested that Eko upon seeing the Virgin Mary statues, demands that Charlie take him to the crash site, which would eliminate the idea that Eko has been back to the crash site recently...oh well.

As far as how this all fits into the original bunny theory--I suspect he too may be a rabbit. The Others seemed to want him, and it seems as though he has encountered them before. What if everyone who has crashed on the island recently have been sent to the island by Hanso?

In other news, on marvincandle.com the invis text on the bottom reads:

Vi kan selv ændre odds for at få et længere liv. Andres unger, dine børn.


Dad? Is that you, Dad? Hello? The button is bad. I am wet and cold. Please help. Dad? You there?

nun de m'eon oligos te kai outidanos kai aeikes phagedaina d'he mou

nun de m'eon oligos te kai outidanos kai aeikes
Yet a small man, worthless and unseemly

phagedaina d'he mou
The tumor which is eating

The quote is from Aristotle's Poetics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poetics). The last line continues:

phagedaina d'he mou sarkas esthiei podos
The tumor which is eating the flesh of my foot.

Interesting, no?
All the tumor talk. I was just posting over on bigmouth's smells thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=26129) about brain tumors and how they cause phantom smells, according to Jack in DEM, again:

SAWYER: 'Sensitivity to light' -- that bad?

JACK: (shrugs) Depends.

SAWYER: On what?

JACK: On what's causing your headaches.

SAWYER: It's not like it's a tumor or something.

(Jack turns and walks back toward Sawyer.)

JACK: What makes you think it's a tumor?

SAWYER: (avoiding) I don't.

JACK: Great. Okay, then.

(Not wanting to play this game with him, Jack turns and starts to leave again.
Sawyer stops him.)

SAWYER: (calls out) My uncle.

(Jack stops and turns around. This time, Sawyer gets up and walks over to
Jack.)

SAWYER: He, uh, died of a brain tumor.

JACK: Yeah?

(Jack heads back toward Sawyer.)

SAWYER: That run in the family -- tumors?

JACK: What type of tumor was it?

SAWYER: The type that kills ya.

JACK: You smell anything funny? Brain tumors bring on phantom smells -- maybe
like something burning.

and it's not the first time cancer/tumors have been mentioned (interesting that Thomas, the father of Claire's baby, also had an uncle who thought he had prostate cancer. What's up with the uncles?). Anyway. I thought it was kind of cool, in light of all the missing limbs (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21510) on this show.

Sorry for the length of this one...

Todell, I don't mind the longer posts at all. That's just more info for us. After I posted on this thread I went hunting and found a newer thread that has just a few posts started. Was Eko on the plane? - Page 2 - The Fuselage#post693059#post693059 (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=693059#post693059) There are some spoilers on there that you might already know of.

He very well could have taken some things with him to wherever he was hiding out, and the all infamous island could be ever changing. This has to do with the incident. Possible the plane had not really crash landed into, on, the tree at all. [/spoiler]

So that goes along with your theory about Eko. It makes sense that he would have changed his clothing, (so he wouldn't have to explain how he was already there and who where what and the why of it all. Especially if he knew these people were coming. And, as you said was there ready to help survivors. I had thought about that but wasn't sure how he would have been informed. I guess from having killed two Others that one night, sure maybe he was waiting for them to attack, knowing they would. The Others also had a list of names of who they were going to take. The list and to say what the person was wearing to know who to look for, in the dark, or, they already had a list of names of those they were going to adduct. Now that's way creepy. How would you know who was going to survive. Fate? Coincidence?

your spoiler quote: ( I couldn't get it to copy here so I'm leaving it out.

then:

As far as how this all fits into the original bunny theory--I suspect he too may be a rabbit. The Others seemed to want him, and it seems as though he has encountered them before. What if everyone who has crashed on the island recently have been sent to the island by Hanso?


Probably like a few other million viewers, as far as Eko's first encounter, and, that he was just standing guard and wound up having to kill off two of them, to save his life, as they were after him as well. Or as you stated, that he had previous encounters with them and was laying in wait for them to protect the tailies from being abducted. I laughed out loud when watching TO48D again, when Eko throws his right arm back to quickly cover Jin's mouth, when he hears something and Jin is talking in Korean. Talk about a bizarre look.

It all makes perfect sense now, if that's the case. It will be extremal interesting to find out how long he was on the island. That had to be very frightening if he was alone. And for how long? Where had he been hiding? I know, 'good question'.

As far as how this all fits into the original bunny theory--I suspect he too may be a rabbit. The Others seemed to want him, and it seems as though he has encountered them before. What if everyone who has crashed on the island recently have been sent to the island by Hanso?

I'm sorry I need you to direct me to your original thoughts on "the bunny theory". I may not have these questions if I had read that before. lol, they would just be more questions. It makes sense to me to go with the theory that they were sent to the island by Hanso. Unwittingly nonetheless, but why send them there and no one, the scientists, knows they're coming? Knows about the dangers on the island, not to mention the cold hard fact, that they would even survive such an ordeal. I think they got caught in the 108 minute laps, via satellite which produced the incident, therefore causing theisland to change. It would have been a free for all those 108 minutes until the time was set and the button was pushed again.

See how long I tend to go on. ;) I'm not even going to reread this, check for errors or continuity tonight. Have to get up early for a gig. I'll check back tomorrow evening. Thanks for your insight. Any good links is always a plus.

Anyone, thoughts on this pondering of mine?

Seems appropriate that this be my 1500th post. But, may I direct those who are interested back to an outside site that we can not discuss.

Ahem.

The bunny theory is the very first post here. A little rough around the edges, but it hasn't fallen apart as of yet!

chatchatchat

lol, kung fu.....i'm still hoppin' like a madwoman, er dog, er rabbit! (yeah, that's the ticket...)

Considering you are from Eugene, I thought you would be a duck...:biggrin:

Just a quick referance to the smells thing (and I did mention it on the smells thread) ~ burnt smells are also associated with the moon. Check out this page about halfway down under "otherworldly odor" http://www.weirdload.com/apollo.html. Also, gunpowder contains sulphur.

Considering you are from Eugene, I thought you would be a duck...:biggrin: or a beaver......:78:

or a beaver......:78:

I thought that was Corvallis...? I, myself hail as a Bearcat. Used to look out the window during classes at the big golden lumberjack.

Attention all Rabbits! Attention all Rabbits!

Because I don't want to upset the moderators over here on the 'Lage, I created a new home (http://longlostlist.kazorum.com/longlostlist-about176.html) for any interested bunnies.

I have no intention to abandon the Fuselage, and hope none of you do either, but I thought it might be nice to have our own Rabbit Hole where we could discuss the minutia of the site that must not be named here.

Hop on over!

Bring carrots,
Commander Bunny

Considering you are from Eugene, I thought you would be a duck...:biggrin:

Just a quick referance to the smells thing (and I did mention it on the smells thread) ~ burnt smells are also associated with the moon. Check out this page about halfway down under "otherworldly odor" http://www.weirdload.com/apollo.html. Also, gunpowder contains sulphur.

cool link, I'm a like'n it. gracias me amiga king fu:cool:

Attention all Rabbits! Attention all Rabbits!

Because I don't want to upset the moderators over here on the 'Lage, I created a new home (http://longlostlist.kazorum.com/longlostlist-about176.html) for any interested bunnies.

I have no intention to abandon the Fuselage, and hope none of you do either, but I thought it might be nice to have our own Rabbit Hole where we could discuss the minutia of the site that must not be named here.

Hop on over!

Bring carrots,
Commander Bunny

Congratulations to car88, cin, WiF, Todell, et al, as this is indeed an excellent site, a perfect complement to the Fuselage for speculative arts realting to information repository and quality interaction.

-Mang

Thanks Stick....

While I'm busy making my crow sandwich for the whole Eko was on the drug plane theory, I thought I'd put down a couple of thoughts based on last night's episode.

What I found most interesting in last night's episode, like most folks I assume, was Eko's encounter with the monster. My initial thought on the encounter is that the monster is a cloud of nanobots, and that the monster and Eko were exchanging information. Eko is a rabbit--but he doesn't know it. Somewhere along the line in his life, he was implanted with the bots, and thus when he encountered the creature they "read" each other. I also have a sneaking suspicion that his brother may be a rabbit, too. The rebels that abduct Eko in the beginning may have been paid by someone to do so, and they came for the brother first. Eko steps in, and his future is changed. Remember, his brother's body is on the plane. Perhaps something inside his corpse guided the plane to the island. Perhaps both Eko and his brother were designed by Hanso to kill...

Read Punky's transhumanist thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=30126), and cmcd's Drs. and Missing Limbs (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21510) thread. I think they are pertinent to the conversation on test subjects. (Also, cmcd's information about the Kinks song that Charlie is singing is fascinating. As is the Kinks song Artificial Man.)

I have more thoughts, including some based on info culled from TSTMNBN by lostscape, but I have a feather sandwich to get to right now. Delicious!

While I'm busy making my crow sandwich for the whole Eko was on the drug plane theory, I thought I'd put down a couple of thoughts based on last night's episode.

What I found most interesting in last night's episode, like most folks I assume, was Eko's encounter with the monster. My initial thought on the encounter is that the monster is a cloud of nanobots, and that the monster and Eko were exchanging information. Eko is a rabbit--but he doesn't know it. Somewhere along the line in his life, he was implanted with the bots, and thus when he encountered the creature they "read" each other. I also have a sneaking suspicion that his brother may be a rabbit, too. The rebels that abduct Eko in the beginning may have been paid by someone to do so, and they came for the brother first. Eko steps in, and his future is changed. Remember, his brother's body is on the plane. Perhaps something inside his corpse guided the plane to the island. Perhaps both Eko and his brother were designed by Hanso to kill...

Read Punky's transhumanist thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=30126), and cmcd's Drs. and Missing Limbs (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21510) thread. I think they are pertinent to the conversation on test subjects. (Also, cmcd's information about the Kinks song that Charlie is singing is fascinating. As is the Kinks song Artificial Man.)

I have more thoughts, including some based on info culled from TSTMNBN by lostscape, but I have a feather sandwich to get to right now. Delicious!

Pluck those feathers first Todell. teehee. Shoot, I wouldn't eat no darned crow samitsh. Honey hush! I have a standing disclaimer, that I have the right to change my mind at any given time, and exercise that right as often as I can. Theories are like fingers, ( I'm being very nice) countless, over and over and over again, changing ideas, and all that jazz. Now, put that crow samitsh down and have a dirty martini instead. *raises my martin glass* um yummy! WelcomeS TODELL to the "I CHANGED MY MIND CLUB"
cheers

Pluck those feathers first Todell. teehee. Shoot, I wouldn't eat no darned crow samitsh. Honey hush! I have a standing disclaimer, that I have the right to change my mind at any given time, and exercise that right as often as I can. Theories are like fingers, ( I'm being very nice) countless, over and over and over again, changing ideas, and all that jazz. Now, put that crow samitsh down and have a dirty martini instead. *raises my martin glass* um yummy! WelcomeS TODELL to the "I CHANGED MY MIND CLUB"
cheers

Now that I've had one or four of those dirty martinis you offered, fancy, I can post something my darling little sister said to me regarding my whole idea about Eko (and perhaps others) being implanted with bots that the monster was then reading. ROM. Read Only Memory.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_memory). Now, I am no kind of computer expert, I leave that to lxicon. But is it possible that Eko (and others) were equipped with some sort of nanotechnology that served as ROM, and that when he encountered the monster, it was reading the information off of it?

Oh, and Ethan's name was Ethan Rom, blah blah blah.

If you haven't had a chance to read some of the transcripts (http://longlostlist.kazorum.com/longlostlist-post-1459.html#1459) that lostscape witnessed, or the documents (letter (http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15ad1.jpg) uncensored letter (http://longlostlist.kazorum.com/longlostlist-post-1778.html#1778) and diagram (http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=24kc.jpg)) that was found on TSTMNBN, you really should.

Also? Based on some of the information there, plus Tiberius' clues, I'm thinking that either there are two monsters, or the monster is made up of two components. The one that Eko and Locke look into is called Vulcan, and the one that pulls Locke into the ground is called Enceladus. Of course, these are just silly guesses, and I reserve the right to change my mind, 'cause fancyface said I could!:harhar1:

Hic.

Also? Based on some of the information there, plus Tiberius' clues, I'm thinking that either there are two monsters, or the monster is made up of two components. The one that Eko and Locke look into is called Vulcan, and the one that pulls Locke into the ground is called Enceladus

Those dirty martinis hit the spot, This last quote of your isn't the only thing I got out of your post, but I'm just going to comment on this one for right now. Also, because I want to read up on the links you provided.

I'm somewhat in agreement about there being more than one "smokey". Some would say one blasted thru the earth to make way for yet another one that blasted thru on a second explosion thru the earth.

Also, if you look at the very end of the encounter with Eko, when smokey "turns" to leave, there are at least three floating away. They are inside of smokey, and they almost look like Dolphins. I know they're not Dolphins, but that's what they look like. Looking at them even closer, they really do have a floating, swimming form about them.

If you get a chance take a look and tell me what you see. rvt and penyours are working on the sounds that came from smokey. They are responsible for transcribing all of "The Whispers" and can be found at Lost Links (http://www.lostlinks.net/whispers.htm). The link for the Whispers if off the thread from "Abandoned" and can be found here
The Whispers - Page 50 - The Fuselage#post703805#post703805#post703805 (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=703805#post703805)

I started you at page 50 because that's about where you'll start to find any of their finds. rvt was hopeful to have something downloaded and available late this evening.

Also? Based on some of the information there, plus Tiberius' clues, I'm thinking that either there are two monsters, or the monster is made up of two components. The one that Eko and Locke look into is called Vulcan, and the one that pulls Locke into the ground is called Enceladus

Those dirty martinis hit the spot, This last quote of your isn't the only thing I got out of your post, but I'm just going to comment on this one for right now. Also, because I want to read up on the links you provided.

I'm somewhat in agreement about there being more than one "smokey". Some would say one blasted thru the earth to make way for yet another one that blasted thru on a second explosion thru the earth.

Also, if you look at the very end of the encounter with Eko, when smokey "turns" to leave, there are at least three floating away. They are inside of smokey, and they almost look like Dolphins. I know they're not Dolphins, but that's what they look like. Looking at them even closer, they really do have a floating, swimming form about them.

If you get a chance take a look and tell me what you see. rvt and penyours are working on the sounds that came from smokey. They are responsible for transcribing all of "The Whispers" and can be found at Lost Links (http://www.lostlinks.net/whispers.htm). The link for the Whispers if off the thread from "Abandoned" and can be found here
The Whispers - Page 50 - The Fuselage#post703805#post703805#post703805 (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=703805#post703805)

I started you at page 50 because that's about where you'll start to find any of their finds. rvt was hopeful to have something downloaded and available late this evening.

*poof!* smartdust.....

*poof!* smartdust.....

feel better?

Now that I've had one or four of those dirty martinis you offered, fancy, I can post something my darling little sister said to me regarding my whole idea about Eko (and perhaps others) being implanted with bots that the monster was then reading. ROM. Read Only Memory.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_memory)..

I love this!! I think you are definitely on to something here. I especially liked the line in your definition link:

Some ROMs can be reprogrammed in the field.

I see you just posted a new thread about memory - off to read it!

Fancy - thanks for posting those links. They are great and I never would have come across them. Also, did notice the 3 'dolphins'. Seems like the smoke are some type of entities that can separate and merge.

Dirty Martinis sound good!

I love this!! I think you are definitely on to something here. I especially liked the line in your definition link:



I see you just posted a new thread about memory - off to read it!

Fancy - thanks for posting those links. They are great and I never would have come across them. Also, did notice the 3 'dolphins'. Seems like the smoke are some type of entities that can separate and merge.

Dirty Martinis sound good!

Yes those dirty martinis hit the spot every time. Need to go and read Todells's thread. Thanks for letting me know you saw those too. To me, it means there are definitely more that more entity flowing/scouting using smokey as a vehicle or cloak.

Thanks, Punky!

So, on MarvinCandle.com, they've changed the invisi text on the bottome once more:


Vi kan selv ændre odds for at få et længere liv. Andres unger, dine børn.


Dad? I am wet and cold. I can't talk long because they are coming back.

nun de m'eon oligos te kai outidanos kai aeikes
phagedaina d'he mou sarkas esthiei podos

Feel those vibrations flow in my brain. Keeps me sane. I'm one of the survivors. I'm on an island and I've got nowhere to run. You think you need nobody to guide you, but you're still a long way from home. If you use a dream to change a mind, then imagination's real. We were lost and found, and we beat the fear. We are the chosen people, give back our ... land. Looking for ... child in the big black smoke, in the big black smoke. Walter, isn't it a shame the way our ... world has changed? But Walter, my ... , where are you now? I just drift away to my island ... imaginary paradise, perfection. But I gotta get the first plane home. He's evil. He's evil. He's evil. He's evil. He's evil.

Creepy. The last line is from the Kinks song "He's Evil," (http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/He's-Evil-lyrics-kinks/8CBC2F81355D9B2148256A0A000AD4E0) that Charlie was singing at the beginning of 23rd Psalm. cmcd posted a great post about the song on the Missing Limbs thread. (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=700343&postcount=182)

Oh. I see. It looks like they're all Kinks lyrics:
"Feel those vibrations flow in my brain. Keeps me sane. I'm one of the survivors." From One of the Survivors (http://kinks.it.rit.edu/cgi-bin/MusicSearch.cgi?song=regular/preserv1/song-oneofsurvive)

"And you think you need no one to guide you
But you’re still a long way from home" A Long Way From Home (http://www.lyricsglobe.com/k/kinks/-/A_Long_Way_from_Home.html)

"If you use a dream to change a mind, then imagination's real." Imaginations Real (http://kinks.it.rit.edu/cgi-bin/MusicSearch.cgi?song=regular/afl13603/song-imaginreal)

"We were lost and found
And we beat the fear" Lost and Found (http://kinks.it.rit.edu/cgi-bin/MusicSearch.cgi?song=regular/thinkvis/song-lostfound)

"We are the chosen people, give back our ... land. " Chosen People (http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Chosen-People-lyrics-kinks/372AD3E28865EF4648256A0A000758DF)

"Looking for ... child in the big black smoke, in the big black smoke" Big Black Smoke (http://kinks.it.rit.edu/cgi-bin/MusicSearch.cgi?song=nonLP/song-bigblack)

"Walter, isn't it a shame the way our ... world has changed? But Walter, my ... , where are you now?" (Do You Remember? Walter?) (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/kinks/79201.html)

"I just drift away to my island ... imaginary paradise, perfection." Drift Away (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/kinks/79261.html)

"But I gotta get the first plane home." Gotta get the first plane home. (http://kinks.it.rit.edu/cgi-bin/MusicSearch.cgi?song=regular/kontroversy/song-firstplane)


Coooooool...

awesome. Wonder "Do You Remember? Walter?" (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/kinks/79201.html) has clues about Michael's dad...

Walter, you are just an echo of a world I knew so long ago
If you saw me now you wouldn’t even know my name.
I bet you’re fat and married and you’re always home in bed by half-past eight.
And if I talked about the old times you’d get bored and you’ll have nothing more to say.
Yes people often change, but memories of people can remain.

This is all VERY cool!

Lovin IT!!

feel better?just passing along info. (as others before me).....sorry if it upset you.....i'll go away now......*turns tail and runs*

just passing along info. (as others before me).....sorry if it upset you.....i'll go away now......*turns tail and runs*

Awww, beagle, come on back, sweetie. We've got beagle treats for ya!

just passing along info. (as others before me).....sorry if it upset you.....i'll go away now......*turns tail and runs*

Who me? Absolutely not beagle1962. I have nothing to be upset about on this forum. I am however very upset that I've had to put my beautiful wonderful Skye pup done today after 12 years.

Come back come back my furry little wabbit friend.

Who me? Absolutely not beagle1962. I have nothing to be upset about on this forum. I am however very upset that I've had to put my beautiful wonderful Skye pup done today after 12 years.

Come back come back my furry little wabbit friend.

i'm so very sorry. i had to put my 13-year old beagle down last april. i'm still not over it. there's nothing i can say to make it any less painful. my thoughts are with you....

Who me? Absolutely not beagle1962. I have nothing to be upset about on this forum. I am however very upset that I've had to put my beautiful wonderful Skye pup done today after 12 years.

Come back come back my furry little wabbit friend.
fancyface, my heart goes out to you. I am soooooo sorry to hear about Syke. It is such and incredibly hard thing to do, just remembering when I had to do it brings tears to my eyes.
Peace be with you.

Oh! fancyface, I'm so sorry. I just gave my dogs a big hug in Skye's honor.

Who me? Absolutely not beagle1962. I have nothing to be upset about on this forum. I am however very upset that I've had to put my beautiful wonderful Skye pup done today after 12 years.

Come back come back my furry little wabbit friend.

Oh, Fancyface, I'm so sorry, I know how you feel. I had a Skye (Ivy) from 9 weeks to 16 years old. Skye's are an amazing breed of dogs. It is one of the hardest things you will ever have to do. My heart goes out to you.

Oh, Fancyface, I'm so sorry, I know how you feel. I had a Skye (Ivy) from 9 weeks to 16 years old. Skye's are an amazing breed of dogs. It is one of the hardest things you will ever have to do. My heart goes out to you.

Thanks, it's been one of the sadest days of my life. People may joke about how much of my spare time I spend in this forum, but I promise you, from my heart it is a saving grace for me. I just get wraped up in conversation and take my thoughts elsewhere.

Oh! fancyface, I'm so sorry. I just gave my dogs a big hug in Skye's honor.

Ohhh, thank you.:kiss:

i'm so very sorry. i had to put my 13-year old beagle down last april. i'm still not over it. there's nothing i can say to make it any less painful. my thoughts are with you....

It's not even been a year for you. I hear it gets easier. Hummm? Well, I hope so.
Now where are all those rebellious wabbits. Must be Saturday night and some people are out. Been there done that. Happy right where I am. Thanks for you support this evening.

I do have some thoughts on the subject of this thread. However, I just posted a long reply in the monster thread and now I have a brain cloud.:drowsy: I'm sure I'll be up for a while so I can come back and "rustle up a mess a somthin"

i posted this over on the LLL forum, and todell (all hail our chief-rabbit :77: ), asked me to post it here as well....

Here's a short synopsis of Kinks, Preservation Acts II, from which the song "He's Evil" comes:

Preservation is set in a small town—a village green. A onetime honorable man (Mr. Flash) has become a corrupt businessman and politician who profits off the poor and middle-class. He is opposed by a charismatic upstart, Mr. Black, who talks of a revolution. His followers call themselves “The People’s Army”. Mr. Black favors mind control to legislate his particular brand of morality. As the two forces clash, the little people are caught in the middle.

The setting is the imaginary Village. “Everyman” is portrayed by The Tramp, the only one who makes any real sense. He watches all the madness without getting involved and ultimately is the only one to escape with wits and integrity intact.

Interspersed between the songs are announcements, like radio broadcasts. The first notes, ""It has been rumored that a new People's Army has been formed by a certain 'Commander Black'. A few minor incidents have already been reported, and further unconfirmed reports suggest that this is a definite attempt to overthrow the
present government which is led by Mr. Flash.

The song "Shepherds of the Nation", Mr. Black's manifesto talks about "We are here to cleanse humanity, From the man in the raincoat's Pale faced glare….” (Mr. Flash)

"Scum of the Earth", by Mr. Flash says his heart was pure before it was touched by the "evils of this world", and that "good and evil Exist in all of us, And no man is a saint And each creates his heaven and his hell"

"He's Evil", the song sung by Charlie (changing "clothes" to "shoes"), is sung by Mr. Black about Mr. Flash. It says "he wants your body not your mind", and "And once you're in there'll be no getting out".

The song "Nobody Gives" is sung by the Tramp. It talks about Hitler and his regime taking "what the world wouldn't give".

Mr. Flash has a dream. In his dream in which he speaks to his soul--which he does not recognize--his soul says 'You lied and schemed and took over a simple village and turned it into a vulgar playground for your own money-making ends. Flash said he did it for the nation, but his soul says it was for his own preservation. Then the following exchange, "Soul: Prepare yourself Flash, there are many who suffered at your hands. They are craving for vengeance. Time is running out. Flash: Can this be the end? Can this be the swan song?

Toward the end, Mr. Black takes over in a coup, and we learn his design for humanity is not as idyllic as the people had hoped….

Mr. Flash is taken to a secret hideout to have his brain cleansed by Mr. Black and Mad Scientist.

In the song "Artificial Man", Mr. Flash begs not to live in an artificial world. Mr. Black says, "Let's build an antiseptic world, Full of artificial people. Cure all diseases, conquer pain And monitor the human brain, And see what thoughts you're thinking. Observe your feelings, Secret fears, Controlling everything you say and do And we will build a master race To live within our artificial world....A superior being Totally made by hand. Throw out imperfection, Mould you section by section, Gonna make you the ultimate creation....Preconditioned thoughts and emotions, Push-button artificial man. Did you ever want to live forever? Well here's your chance to be a total automaton 'Cause we've improved on God's creation...."

A final announcement indicates Mr. Flash and his followers have all been taken prisoner by the "People's Army".

The story concludes with "Salvation Road". “Hear me brothers, hear me sisters....The old life's dead the order's changing....Changed my ways, And found a new religion....Goodbye freedom, hello fear, A brave new world has suddenly appeared...”

To me it seems like Mr. Flash is Hanso, and Mr. Black and the People's Army are the Others, fighting against his ideals, only to become what they found so distasteful in him. Using his perverse experiments against him, and becoming sick with power, the People's Army continue(d) with the experimentation, creating a new world order. Our losties are the Tramp, caught in the middle of it, and paying the price...

ETA: and it's my 400th post!

OMG! That is brilliant!

Hi beagle, I hit may 400th post just a few back. Tried getting into LLL and reading up on some of the posts. I'm still trying to find my way around there. thanks for posting Todells info here.

beagle...that is amazing...:biggrin:

OMG! That is brilliant!Thank you, but I'm not so sure about brilliant. It's fun to see the comparison though (it's also an interesting album--not the Kinks' best, but worth a listen nonetheless!)

Hi beagle, I hit may 400th post just a few back. Tried getting into LLL and reading up on some of the posts. I'm still trying to find my way around there. thanks for posting Todells info here.Normally I wouldn't toot my own horn but, :toot: So often I find myself commenting on other people's observations, it feels good to FINALLY come up with something of my own.




Ok, I'm through feeling full of myself now....back to humble-beagle.....:biggrin:

great interpretation, beagle! I was blown away when you posted it over on the LLL, and am thankful you posted it here, as it fits so nicely with my first post.

Good job! Have an extra treat on me!

Great interpretation Beagle, clearly what my post back after the episode (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=700343&postcount=182)was lacking.

todell and I have been having an active discussion about the rabbits since she discovered the site that shall not be named. My cynical 20th century history major mind saw the rebellious forces as being corruptible, not working for "Good" at all, but singularly focued by their own righteousness against evil that they fail to see that their own means do not justify their ends. That's why I think Christian plays both sides, the greater 'good' indeed.

It's not like we haven't seen it repeatedly in the previous century.

Also, fellow rabbits, while looking up the title of this week's episode, I came across this...

The Hunting Party Written by Pierre Christin and Illustrated by Enki Bilal. About members of the Politburo wondering out into the outskirts of the Soviet Satellites on a hunting trip. This "]link ("http://www.artbomb.net/detail.jsp?gid=12&tid=197) was the most concise desription I found.

Wow, I managed not to go off on an anti-Che rant! Todell can attest, that is shocking.

Great work beagle1962, I totally agree with your interpretation. Great job of flushing it all out!

sorry if it appeared i took license with your theory, cmcdtv. i didn't see your post in "drs. and missing limbs" (thanks for the link!).

it's pretty fascinating how the tidbits they give us, in what appears to be an offhanded way, feed us so much valuable information. as a self-described music freak (i live on the "finish the lyrics" thread in the games forum--i've literally got a roomful of lps, cds and reel-to-reels in my house), when i heard the bite of "he's evil" that charlie sang, it took me back to '74 when the album was first released (hmmmmm, does that date me?). i knew there was a connection to the album, but i couldn't quite put it together. with the encouragement of wif on the lll forum, and a listen with a new set of "rabbit" ears, there was no mistaking it.

glad someone else saw the parallels. sometimes i think i read more into things than are there....

thanks also for the "hunting party" link. can't wait for the new episode!

sorry if it appeared i took license with your theory, cmcdtv. i didn't see your post in "drs. and missing limbs" (thanks for the link!).

it's pretty fascinating how the tidbits they give us, in what appears to be an offhanded way, feed us so much valuable information. as a self-described music freak (i live on the "finish the lyrics" thread in the games forum--i've literally got a roomful of lps, cds and reel-to-reels in my house), when i heard the bite of "he's evil" that charlie sang, it took me back to '74 when the album was first released (hmmmmm, does that date me?). i knew there was a connection to the album, but i couldn't quite put it together. with the encouragement of wif on the lll forum, and a listen with a new set of "rabbit" ears, there was no mistaking it.

glad someone else saw the parallels. sometimes i think i read more into things than are there....

thanks also for the "hunting party" link. can't wait for the new episode!

You've seen Marvincandle.com right? So, so interesting.I think todell posted the info in the invisible text here. I know what you mean about music, too. This weekend I was trying to figure out how to relate neutral milk hotel's "Aeroplane over the sea" to Lost. Aside from the plane, the sea, and the world war two references not much there, but boy did I try!

So as to the straight jacket, as long as we meet people as friendly as Hurley, I wouldn't mind a bit of a vacation.

Thank you, but I'm not so sure about brilliant. It's fun to see the comparison though (it's also an interesting album--not the Kinks' best, but worth a listen nonetheless!)

Normally I wouldn't toot my own horn but, :toot: So often I find myself commenting on other people's observations, it feels good to FINALLY come up with something of my own.




Ok, I'm through feeling full of myself now....back to humble-beagle.....:biggrin:

Toot away my friend. Toot away!!:biggrin: I often find times in my life where I need to give myself kudos, for oh just about anything.

Beagle, that's a fantastic connection. I bet TPTB are saying "See I told you someone would get it."

I bet TPTB are saying "See I told you someone would get it."

Only problem with TPTB, is that we don't really know if they are smiling because of our ingenuity or laughing at our insanity. Sometimes its hard to tell the difference.

Only problem with TPTB, is that we don't really know if they are smiling because of our ingenuity or laughing at our insanity. Sometimes its hard to tell the difference.
you said it! my guess is the latter....

At the bottom of Marvincandle.com today:

don't ingsk trust rossc

Don't trust kings cross.

The place where Christian "died," and where he met Sawyer at the bar (not meet as in predetermined meeting -- although who knows, right -- but met as in encounter for the first time)

Shephard

Don't let the air conditioning fool you, son. You are here, too. You are suffering. But, don't beat yourself up about it. It's fate. Some people are just supposed to suffer. That's why the Red Sox will never win the damn series. I have a son who's about your age. He's not like me, he does what's in his heart. He's a good man, maybe a great one. Right now, he thinks that I hate him. He thinks I feel betrayed by him. But what I really feel is gratitude, and pride because of what he did to me. What he did for me. It took more courage than I have. There's a pay phone over there. I could pick it up and I could call my son. I could tell him about all this. I could tell him that I love him. One simple phone call and I could fix everything.

So which shouldn't we trust? What Christian said to Sawyer (it did encourage Sawyer to kill poor Frank, after all)? Or the "fact" of Christian's death?

ETA: It could also be not to trust Kingscrossstatepolice.com

Incredible.

Very nice work Beagle. Good girl.

(Pats beagle on the head, and gives her a treat)

I noticed yesterday that both Kingscrossstatepolice.com & th3sn0wman.com are both down....or I should say on hiatus, both just say 'Back Real Soon'. I hadn't checked them out in several days, just wondering how long they've been uneventful?

And Beagle, thanks for that post. I really enjoyed reading it!
(Tosses beagle a couple treats...:gingerb: :sausage: :cookie: )

Hi beagle, just watching the rerun of Psalms 23 before the new epi starts. I had a question I could pose to you in a PM, but I thought this might work better. I've been looking thru "search" for any threads that have ever been started about any map that has been created of the island. Can't find any. Do you know of any attempt that anyone has made to create a map?

fancyface,
The best maps I've found are located at the Black Rock (http://www.blackrock.nl/content/view/12/33/).

OMG!!! Todell!! Calling all rabbits! This theory is really gaining momentum!

Rebellion seemed to be a theme for the evening, everybody telling someone else what to do, but getting all out rebellion in return. Jack told Michael not to go after Walt alone, but Michael said he had the right and went anyway. Jack told Kate not to go with the hunting party, and she went anyway with disastrous results. Locke's questioning of Jack seemed on target, "Who are we to tell anybody what they can or can't do?" Then we meet Zeke, who tells Jack something like (paraphrasing), I would listen to Mr. Locke if I were you. (This sounds eerily similar to what Walt told Michael when Jack and crew went after Claire in ATBCHDI.) Zeke tells them to leave their weapons and go back to camp. Now Jack wants to raise an army? Even Sun got in on the action, telling Jin not to go after Michael. Perhaps this is the reason that they have not been taken by the others? A rebellious nature?

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=31928

Former "they're dead but don't know it" to "nanobots rule the world" really wants to be "rebellious rabbit". Took forever to get through this thread. But worth the blood shot eyes.

Wondering how this thread progresses the plot line. How do you kill off a rabbit rebelling? Jack Rabbit? Building an army. Solution in watership down?

Thanks for the work. Nice to have a fuzzy was he? theory to hang my hat on.

Until next week . . .

Rebellion seemed to be a theme for the evening, everybody telling someone else what to do, but getting all out rebellion in return. Jack told Michael not to go after Walt alone, but Michael said he had the right and went anyway. Jack told Kate not to go with the hunting party, and she went anyway with disastrous results. Locke's questioning of Jack seemed on target, "Who are we to tell anybody what they can or can't do?" Then we meet Zeke, who tells Jack something like (paraphrasing), I would listen to Mr. Locke if I were you. (This sounds eerily similar to what Walt told Michael when Jack and crew went after Claire in ATBCHDI.) Zeke tells them to leave their weapons and go back to camp. Now Jack wants to raise an army? Even Sun got in on the action, telling Jin not to go after Michael. Perhaps this is the reason that they have not been taken by the others? A rebellious nature?
My hasn't Jack changed from the pilot episode, where he didn't want to be in charge of anything. Too much stuff to think about in this episode. Be careful what you wish for, TPTB may fill them and give you 100 new questions to ask.

agree on Jack,

thought the writing in this episode was particularly good...

Locke was right there to question Jack about his new found desire to "control" the situation.

Stranded on an island, you know no one is coming for you, personalities from A to B and possibly somewhere in between, you've never been very good with authority figures, humm, that sounds like, well almost all of the principles in this story line. Right up to Mr. Friendly. Which leads me to a whole other scenario from last nights epi.

While I wasn't particularly impressed with any of it, except that yet again, we see shadows of the others ( I think in the screen cap you can count about 7 including Mr. Friendly) and a lot of weird dialog. Such as, Mr. Friendly telling them who do they think they are, anyway. I almost expected him to come out with "How dare you"! Opening doors they shouldn't, (why, because you wanted to get there first for the ammo and guns?) putting your feet up on someones coffee table or not taking your shoes off when you enter into someones home. I kinda rate that right up there with abducting children, attempted murder, theft, sending spy's that will kill you if they need to by hanging you from a tree, or maybe just befriend you then sneak up behind you and break your neck. Here have a banana, SNAP! And lets not forget "don't cross over this line". I don't think he had one drawn in the dirt, but you just never know. I'm sure the Losties would probably love to know where that line is. Since he said this is not your island, this is our island, there is no line. Not only do the Others not have any manners that Mr, Friendly so arrogantly told the Losties they were lacking in (oh brother) they still aren't going to give Walt back. seabilly, naw, junglebillie is more like it. We gonna keep him 'cause we needs him. *sticking finger in throat* gag cough, sputter

Sorry, I'm just being a bit rebellious over that epi.

My hasn't Jack changed from the pilot episode, where he didn't want to be in charge of anything. Too much stuff to think about in this episode. Be careful what you wish for, TPTB may fill them and give you 100 new questions to ask.

OH!! SamG, I lost count at 1,000 last night.

Alright: Zeke, short for Ezekiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel), a biblical prophet.

Check this out:

Ezekiel is a prophet who was instructed to act his prophesies. He was a prophet who loved drama and songwriting unlike the other prophets. He would sometimes do unbelievable things such as taking a potter's flask and smashing it to symbolize that Jerusalem will be destroyed and the people in Jerusalem will be scattered to the winds.

The elders of the exiles repeatedly visited him to obtain a divine oracle (chapters 8, 14, 20). He exerted no permanent influence upon his contemporaries, however, whom he repeatedly calls the "rebellious house" (2:5, 6, 8; 3:9, 26, 27; and elsewhere), complaining that although they flock in great numbers to hear him they regard his discourse as a sort of aesthetic amusement, and fail to act in accordance with his words (33:30-33).

From Ezekiel 2: What Zeke claims God told him:

3 He said: "Son of man, I am sending you to the Israelites, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against me; they and their fathers have been in revolt against me to this very day. 4 The people to whom I am sending you are obstinate and stubborn. Say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says.' 5 And whether they listen or fail to listen—for they are a rebellious house—they will know that a prophet has been among them. 6 And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them or their words. Do not be afraid, though briers and thorns are all around you and you live among scorpions. Do not be afraid of what they say or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious house. 7 You must speak my words to them, whether they listen or fail to listen, for they are rebellious. 8 But you, son of man, listen to what I say to you. Do not rebel like that rebellious house; open your mouth and eat what I give you."

So. Now what? What more do we know about the Others? Does it change anything I think about their relationship with Hanso?

In short, no. I was concerned that Zeke made some glorifying comment about Hanso, but upon rewatching, all he says is "someone much smarter than anyone here once said..." You can admire your enemy's intelligence without agreeing with him.

I still think the Others are in active rebellion against Hanso, and I think that Kate is working with them. Danger Kitty started a "Was Kate in on it" (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=33113) thread, and I worry that I killed it by talking all crazy. But the bottom line is that one can extrapolate based on past info from the site that must not be named, that there are anti-Hanso forces in the outside world. (The Paris maps, and meeting times, for instance, suggests that they are getting together in the here and now--also, the hansofoundation.org site suggests that Hanso is still at work...so they still have an active enemy) I think Kate knows more about Hanso-Dharma than she has said, and that is why the Marshall was chasing her (but he doesn't know the whole truth).

FURTHERMORE, and this is reallly nuts, I know, but I think Ray Mullen, the farmer that took Kate in, is a Hanso employee who turns Kate over when the time is right, i.e., flight 815 has been set up (is his missing arm ala Candle a clue to his affiliation?).

And I loooove that Jack has decided to create his own army. I can't wait to see how this all unfolds...I'm still not as upset with Zeke as you are fancypants, but I agree with beagle's interpretation that they've gone bad in their own cause. Of course, so has Kate. She's so much like them, when you think about it. Kills, but does so for a "greater good."

OOH! Which brings me to another point I've been wanting to make: the toy airplane! Dr. Suds once made some point about the plane having a transmitter in it to communicate with Mr. Paik, or something, I couldn't really follow. But what if he's not entirely off? What if the airplane is some sort of symbol of the rebellion, or has some sort of transmitter in it, or something--it is more than just a little memento of her childhood...it belongs to the rabbits?

Alright. Back to making tin foil hats and writing rambling letters to the FBI. I'm officially off my rocker.

FURTHERMORE, and this is reallly nuts, I know, but I think Ray Mullen, the farmer that took Kate in, is a Hanso employee who turns Kate over when the time is right, i.e., flight 815 has been set up (is his missing arm ala Candle a clue to his affiliation?).


Hiya Todell! I think you are spot on with this line of thinking. We do not know what drew Kate to Australia .... right? Mullen's farm was off the beaten path - Kate just stumbles on it? If she was suspicious of Hanso - and she suspected Ray Mullen was involved, she would investigate. I suspect she didn't stumble upon his farm - rather, it was her intended destination. She was there to uncover some information on Hanso. Unfortunately, Ray Mullen must have figured that out..... or known all along.

I have been rewatching the 1st season - and you are right - when you focus on Kate, you see things differently than first viewing. I hope to update my transhumanist thread w/that information. But I love how a number of the theories can all work together!

Wooo, Todell's on a roll!

Alright: Zeke, short for Ezekiel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezekiel), a biblical prophet.

Check this out:



From Ezekiel 2: What Zeke claims God told him:



So. Now what? What more do we know about the Others? Does it change anything I think about their relationship with Hanso?

In short, no. I was concerned that Zeke made some glorifying comment about Hanso, but upon rewatching, all he says is "someone much smarter than anyone here once said..." You can admire your enemy's intelligence without agreeing with him.

I still think the Others are in active rebellion against Hanso, and I think that Kate is working with them. Danger Kitty started a "Was Kate in on it" (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=33113) thread, and I worry that I killed it by talking all crazy.

I agree that TO's are in rebellion against Hanso. I also think there is another group beside Zeke's. He didn't really say his name was Zeke did he? I've been kinda out of this past 9 days. I remember hearing Sawyer call him that. I'll have to jump over to DangerKitty's thread and check it out.

But the bottom line is that one can extrapolate based on past info from the site that must not be named, that there are anti-Hanso forces in the outside world. (The Paris maps, and meeting times, for instance, suggests that they are getting together in the here and now--also, the hansofoundation.org site suggests that Hanso is still at work...so they still have an active enemy) I think Kate knows more about Hanso-Dharma than she has said, and that is why the Marshall was chasing her (but he doesn't know the whole truth).

Exactly. And, I'm thinking along the same lines as you and a lot of other people that Kate is in on this. It makes sense in that she broke into a bank to recover her tiny airplane. I always wondered about the significance of that whole scenario.

FURTHERMORE, and this is reallly nuts, I know, but I think Ray Mullen, the farmer that took Kate in, is a Hanso employee who turns Kate over when the time is right, i.e., flight 815 has been set up (is his missing arm ala Candle a clue to his affiliation?).

She really went out of her way to get to that farm. Unless Mullin was or had been on the island and or was in on the initial project for experimentation, which ever his are of expertise was, I'm just wondering if he did know about Kate's involvement why did he turn her in? I guess I can't see the big picture on that yet.

And I loooove that Jack has decided to create his own army. I can't wait to see how this all unfolds...I'm still not as upset with Zeke as you are fancypants, but I agree with beagle's interpretation that they've gone bad in their own cause. Of course, so has Kate. She's so much like them, when you think about it. Kills, but does so for a "greater good."

It was going to have to come to defending themselves against TO's eventually. They've taken all of the children except for Aaron. Also after Jack found out what they had done to the Tailies, and after their run in with Mr. Cranky Pants, the game is afoot. HA! fancypants, aka fancyface rvt called me funnyface and I told him others might agree with him,and the list keeps growing.:biggrin:


OOH! Which brings me to another point I've been wanting to make: the toy airplane! Dr. Suds once made some point about the plane having a transmitter in it to communicate with Mr. Paik, or something, I couldn't really follow. But what if he's not entirely off? What if the airplane is some sort of symbol of the rebellion, or has some sort of transmitter in it, or something--it is more than just a little memento of her childhood...it belongs to the rabbits?


Sure, wow that makes for some good deduction. Can you tell me if she found it after they had crashed? Now that would be something.

Alright. Back to making tin foil hats and writing rambling letters to the FBI. I'm officially off my rocker.


teehee, make me one. I'd like to read that letter. To Whom It May Concern:

Sure, wow that makes for some good deduction. Can you tell me if she found it after they had crashed? Now that would be something.

From Whatever the Case May Be: the very end of the episode, she's holding it at the campfire (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=147&pos=927) on the island.

Here's another pic of the little bugger. (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=147&pos=929)

Now, what do we know about the plane? It was given to Tom when he traveled to Dallas alone as a kid. They dig it up when she returns to Iowa. Dr. Suds has proposed that she actually has it on her person before they dig up the box, and through sleight of hand she slips it back into the box. We know that when they dig up the Marshall's body, Jack catches her taking the key to the case in a similar move:

[Shot of Kate and Jack digging up the grave of the Marshal. Coughing and gagging.]

Jack: You alright?

Kate: Compared to what?

Jack: You want me to. . .

Kate: No, I'll do it.

[Kate gets the wallet from the Marshal's back pocket, much gagging going on. Kate gets it and jumps out of the grave.]

Jack: Did you get it?

Kate: Yeah.

[Kate opens the wallet which has maggots in it and throws it on the ground. Jack picks it up and looks through it.]

Jack: Key isn't in here.

Kate: It isn't?

Jack: No, but that was real good sleight-of-hand distracting me with the wallet. [Jack grabs Kate's closed hand.] Open it. [Kate opens her hand to reveal the key which Jack takes.]

Kate: Jack, I. . .



The questions I have are these: if it is some sort of device or transmitter, was it always? Who gives a ten-year-old kid a super-secret spy transmitter? I mean, I guess maybe it might be a safe place--no one would look for it on him...I don't know.

And part two of the question is, if she is doing what Suds proposes, slipping it back into the box, why? For whose benefit? Tom's? Why does Tom need to see her remove the plane from the box? I don't know. I'm just trying to figure it all out.

But if the plane were some sort of device, it would explain her single-mindedness about retreiving it, from the time capsule, from the bank and then from the Halliburton on the island...