shootfire has noticed a number of interesting connections to World War II, including the town of Narvik (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=18748&page=7)
over on the Iron Mike (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=532422#post532422) thread. And then shootfire caught the Churchill cigarette case (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21955) with some great connections back to Narvik.
We also know that Hanso (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html) made his name during World War II.

Anything else?

Hanso:

Driven by a need for privacy and a deep-seated sense of humility, Alvar Hanso has released few details of his personal life to the public.

He first made his mark during the Second World War, providing munitions to various resistance movements around Europe. After the War, Hanso became the leading purveyor of high-technology armaments to NATO.

After decades of keeping the world safe through the development of sophisticated weapons systems, Hanso turned his attention to critical areas of science and technology - always searching for new ways to improve the human experience, and create a brighter future for all humanity.

Still running his vast network of companies, Hanso has set new standards for philanthropy and the support of pure scientific research for the betterment of the entire race.


Navrik:

The port of Narvik proved to be strategically valuable in the early years of World War II and the town became a focal point of the Norwegian Campaign. In 1939 Germany's war industry depended upon iron ore extracted in Kiruna and Malmberget in Sweden. During the summer this ore could be shipped to Germany from the Swedish port of Luleå on the Gulf of Bothnia. However, when the Gulf of Bothnia froze during the winter, most of the ore had to be brought from Narvik. The town of Narvik is linked by rail to Sweden, but not to other towns in Norway. As a result, Narvik serves as a gateway to the ore fields of Sweden which cannot be easily reached from southern Norway over land. Then First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill realized that control of Narvik meant stopping most German imports of iron-ore during the winter of 1940, which would be highly advantageous to the Allies and might help shorten the war. Churcill proposed laying a minefield in Norwegian territorial waters around Narvik or possibly occupying the town with Allied troops. The Allies hoped that they might be able to use an occupied Narvik as a base from which to secure the Swedish ore fields and/or to send supplies and reinforcements to Finland, then fighting The Winter War with the Soviet Union. Plans to lay a minefield around Narvik or to seize the town met with debate within the British government since both plans would mean a violation of Norway's neutrality and sovereignty.

A side-by-side shot (http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~jonkjeti/Lost/Narvik2.jpg) of the Hanso building and Narvik.

Shootfire also points out that Locke was playing Axis and Allies in Walkabout.

The Hanso Life-Extension Project

The Hanso Foundation Electromagnetic Research Initiative

The Hanso Quest for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence

The Hanso Mathematical Forecasting Initiative

The Hanso Cryogenics Development Imperative

The Hanso Juxtapositional Eugenics Development Institute

The Hanso Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility



Also, I was looking up information on cryogenics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenics), one of the projects listed on the Hanso site (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html).

And wouldn't you know it:

The field of Cryogenics advanced when, during World War II, scientists found that metals frozen to low temperatures showed more resistance to wear.

Also, the Nazis conducted eugenics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics) experiments during the war.

And WaltisFuture caught a Unit 731 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731) reference on Desmond's food (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=513770#post513770) in the hatch.

Shetland Bus

Hi Tiberius! Funny seeing you here!

The Shetland Bus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland_Bus).The Shetland bus was the popular name of the escape route and supply route established between occupied Norway and the Shetland Islands (Scotland), operated initially by small fishing boats and later by three US made submarinechasers. The submarinechaser KNM Hitra is still floating as a museum ship.

The crossings were mostly made during the Winter to ensure the Norwegian Coast was reached under the cover of darkness. This meant that the crews and passengers had to endure very heavy North Sea conditions, with no lights, and under constant risk of being shot at by German planes or boats. There was also the possiblility of being captured whilst carrying out the mission on the Norwegian coast. The operation was under constant threat from German forces, including the organization resident in Norwegian, of which the Telavåg tragedy is the prime example.

Several fishing boats were lost during the initial operations, but after receiving the three submarinechasers no more losses occurred during the crossings.

Leif Larsen (popularily known as Shetland Larsen) was perhaps the most famous of the Shetland Bus men. In all he made 52 trips to Norway, and became the most highly decorated allied naval officer of the Second World War.

Hmmm...Norway to Scotland. Why, Desmond's Scottish! Any connection?

More on the Shetland Bus (http://www.shetland-heritage.co.uk/shetlandbus/).

And, I hestitate to put this here, as it ties into my Rabbit Rebellion theory, but look at this (http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/facts.html):

BRITAIN'S NEXT CASUALTY

The third civilian killed in an air raid on Britain was James Isbister during a German raid on Scapa Flow in the Orkneys on July 24, 1940. A bomb fell near the Bridge of Waith killing 27 year old Isbister. On a previous raid on November 13, 1939 during an attack on the Shetlands, all that resulted was a large bomb crater in the countryside and the only fatality was a rabbit, which gave rise to the famous WWII marching song 'Run Rabbit, Run'.

There is some speculation that the rabbit was actually purchased from a local butcher and placed in the crater for effect ... or a laugh; but either way, this must be the world's most famous dead rabbit!



And for curiosity's sake, here is the Run Rabbit Run song:

Run rabbit run - Flannegan & Allen

Words by Noel Gay & Ralph Butler. Music by Noel Gay


Run rabbit - run rabbit - Run! Run! Run!
Run rabbit - run rabbit - Run! Run! Run!
So run rabbit - run rabbit - Run! Run! Run!

Run rabbit - run rabbit - Run! Run! Run!
Don't give the farmer his fun! Fun! Fun!
He'll get by without his rabbit pie
So run rabbit - run rabbit - Run! Run! Run!


Is Desmond a Shetland bunny?

Very nice, Todell. I really like the Run Rabbit Run connection. We certainly have enough bunny referrences to take a look at it.

The thing about Churchill that has my wheels turning is that he abandoned Narvik when France was invaded. The fountain outside the Narvik City Hall building is in the shape of an octagon, just like our Dharma symbol. It was dedicated to Norwegian resistance fighters IIRC. I'm extremely interested in what the central statue in the fountain represents but haven't found any information on it yet. It's a woman holding an infant, while standing atop a globe. Any ideas? I thought perhaps it was Nott and Dag from Norse mythology. Nott means night, and Dag means day. Nott was Dag's mother according to mythology.

shootfire: the only thing I can find on that dang statue is this site (http://www.eurotravelling.net/norway/narvik/narvik_gallery.htm) that refers to it as the "Liberty Statue."
Hmmm....

Wasn't it mentioned at some point that the "numbers" code had been transmitting since WW2? It's perfectly reasonable that there could have been somekind of US military presence on the island during that period, acting either as a standard listening post or furtively pursuing more secretive goals.

A Japanese connection from WW2 cannot be ruled out either.

Veiny Eyeball: there's no indication that the numbers have been broadcast since WW2. Here is the transcript form Numbers:

[INT. (AUSTRALIA) SAM TOOMEY'S RESIDENCE - LIVING ROOM -- DAY - CONTINUOUS -
FLASHBACK]

HURLEY: -- Leonard Simms.

(Martha Toomey carries in a couple of tea cups into the living room.)

MARTHA TOOMEY: That's right. They served together in the U.S. Navy. How is
Leonard? Still in the service?

(She hands Hurley a cup of tea.)

HURLEY: Uh, he's, um ... retired.

(Hurley stares at his cup. Martha sits down. She smiles at him.)

HURLEY: Anyway ... he told me about Sam ... hearing something.

MARTHA TOOMEY: Oh. You're talking about the numbers.

HURLEY: Yes. The numbers. Exactly. Do you know anything about them?

MARTHA TOOMEY: Sam and Leonard were stationed at a listening post monitoring
long wave transmissions over the pacific. Boring job. Sam hated it. Nothing
to do but listen to static night after night -- till one night, back sixteen
years ago, there's something in the static. A voice cuts through -- a voice
repeating those number over and over again.

(Mesmerized, Hurley nearly drops his tea cup. He catches himself and the tea
cup clinks against the saucer.)



So, Lenny and Sam heard the numbers when they were at a Pacific listening post 16 years ago. The naval posts themselves may be holdovers from WW2, but I haven't seen anything that indicates that the numbers themselves have been broadcast since then...
But it would have been a good connection.:ohwell:

A while back someone had started a thread called Fat man and little boy? I never went to it because I thought it was being mean to Hurley.

The other day I came across those names but they were nuclear (?) bomb names. This may have been covered on that thread, but like I said I never ventured in.

Too much excellent new info, I can't keep up. Shootfire what or where is the post re: the connection to the Winston Churchill cig case? Very cool.

Subscribing cause I don't have time to read it all right now. You guys rock hard.

WIF, you may remember we discussed this way back when (Season 1). I believe it was in Sam G's Odds and Ends thread. I love that thread! Anyway, there was an article from Cigar Afficianado, remember? I think you went through and outlined a lot of the things from that article that could be pertinent to the show. I also remember reading that when Churchill was a (young officer?) in Cuba, he subsisted on cigars and oranges. I just recently started another thread trying to determine once and for all what the engraving on that cigarette case says. It's in French. Churchill's cigarette case and WWII I believe is the name of the thread.

WIF, you may remember we discussed this way back when (Season 1). I believe it was in Sam G's Odds and Ends thread. I love that thread! Anyway, there was an article from Cigar Afficianado, remember? I think you went through and outlined a lot of the things from that article that could be pertinent to the show. I also remember reading that when Churchill was a (young officer?) in Cuba, he subsisted on cigars and oranges. I just recently started another thread trying to determine once and for all what the engraving on that cigarette case says. It's in French. Churchill's cigarette case and WWII I believe is the name of the thread.

Right, I forgot all about that. Looks like I might have to cruise that thread again. I love how our labors of love are bearing fruit. (oranges preferably)

So we decided that the word is Malmen on the building in Narvik? And danl08 concluded that it was a Swedish word (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=535543#post535543), right? I did a little research on Sweden during WW2 for Tib's thread, and it turns out that even though they were "neutral (http://www.answers.com/topic/sweden-during-world-war-ii)," they still provided iron ore and ball bearings (http://www.state.gov/www/policy_remarks/1998/980602_eizenstat_nazigld.html) to Germany (iron, shootfire?). More problematic, they also held onto gold that the Nazis took from the Jews for decades.

This third report, therefore, this third chart is a summary which gives a very good picture of how much German external assets on this side accumulated of the various neutrals during the war was actually returned in liquidated form, and how little gold was returned to the Allies. Not including Switzerland, of the more than $300 million worth of gold traded to the neutrals, of which we estimate $240 million was looted, only $18.5 million was returned to the Tripartite Gold Commission as a result of the protracted negotiations with the neutrals -- so only $18.5 million of $240 million looted gold.

Most of that amount -- almost $15 million -- came from Sweden, the most cooperative of the neutrals after the war. The turnover of even this amount was largely delayed until 1955. Portugal's $4.5 million of a much larger amount did not reach the TGC -- the Tripartite Gold Commission -- until 1959. Separately, of the some $470 million to $490 million in German external assets in Argentina, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and Turkey, the long post-war negotiations resulted in turning over for the recovery of Europe about $100 million of the some $470 million to $490 million. Two-thirds of this amount came from Sweden.

Could this be the source for Hanso's money?

I'm ashamed to post this on this thoroughly intelligent thread, but it won't leave my mind. On the PE thread you will find mention of (insert name later?) going into the future and all he sees is a turn around (just like the Narvik pik) with a statue of a rearing horse. They also claim to have financed their venture with Nazi gold, stolen from a train tunnel. Sorry for the lack of info, but I had to unload that so I can move on to other things.


A few weeks ago one clue led me down the road to Eugenics, and I copied the following.

eugenetics - science which studies how to 'improve human race'
"The Republican congressional candidate James L Hart has acknowledged that he is an unapologetic supporter of eugenics, the fake science that resulted in thousands of people being sterilised in an attempt to purify the white race."

Much of Mr Hart's platform revolves around eugenics, which developed before the Second World War as a pseudoscientific movement to solve social problems by preventing the "unfit" from having children. It inspired 33 US states to pass laws that allowed the sterilisation of some 65,000 people, and Nazi Germany used the US examples to justify programs that sterilised and killed millions.


Eugenics: The Science of Human Improvement by Better Breeding

The philosopher George Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." This adage is appropriate to our current rush into the "gene age," which has striking parallels to the eugenics movement of the early decades of the 20th century. Eugenics was, quite literally, an effort to breed better human beings – by encouraging the reproduction of people with "good" genes and discouraging those with "bad" genes. Eugenicists effectively lobbied for social legislation to keep racial and ethnic groups separate, to restrict immigration from southern and eastern Europe, and to sterilize people considered "genetically unfit." Elements of the American eugenics movement were models for the Nazis, whose radical adaptation of eugenics culminated in the Holocaust.


John Harvey Kellogg created the Race Betterment Foundation in Battle Creek, Michigan.........(not the one associated with Halliburton?)

Why is the Western world in the grips of such a vast illusion? For thousands of years everyone took it for granted that some people are born smarter than others simply because it's so obviously true. Even in the early decades of the 20th century, egalitarianism would have been laughed at, and eugenics was widely accepted by prominent people whose views spanned the entire political spectrum. To list just a few proponents: George Bernard Shaw, Charles Darwin, Margaret Sanger, H.G. Wells, Francis Galton (who coined the term "eugenics"), Theodore Roosevelt, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Alexander Graham Bell, Charles Lindbergh, and Winston Churchill. Julian Huxley described eugenics as "of all outlets for altruism, that which is most comprehensive and of longest range."

George Bernard Shaw, Charles Darwin, Margaret Sanger, H.G. Wells, Francis Galton (who coined the term "eugenics"), Theodore Roosevelt, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Alexander Graham Bell, Charles Lindbergh, and Winston Churchill. Julian Huxley described eugenics as "of all outlets for altruism, that which is most comprehensive and of longest range."

It's interesting to note that in things I've read about Freemasons, alot of those names have popped up. Huxley, Darwin, Wells, and Roosevelt a large amount...

Probably doesn't relate but just thought I'd throw it out there.

I'm ashamed to post this on this thoroughly intelligent thread, but it won't leave my mind. On the PE thread you will find mention of (insert name later?) going into the future and all he sees is a turn around (just like the Narvik pik) with a statue of a rearing horse. They also claim to have financed their venture with Nazi gold, stolen from a train tunnel. Sorry for the lack of info, but I had to unload that so I can move on to other things.


A few weeks ago one clue led me down the road to Eugenics, and I copied the following.


Why is the Western world in the grips of such a vast illusion? For thousands of years everyone took it for granted that some people are born smarter than others simply because it's so obviously true. Even in the early decades of the 20th century, egalitarianism would have been laughed at, and eugenics was widely accepted by prominent people whose views spanned the entire political spectrum. To list just a few proponents: George Bernard Shaw, Charles Darwin, Margaret Sanger, H.G. Wells, Francis Galton (who coined the term "eugenics"), Theodore Roosevelt, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Alexander Graham Bell, Charles Lindbergh, and Winston Churchill. Julian Huxley described eugenics as "of all outlets for altruism, that which is most comprehensive and of longest range."

Interesting question. Working with a form of DNA, (Y-DNA mostly) I come across information that is sometimes really jarring. One day in my boss's office I came across this paper that is discussed here
(http://www.sdjewishjournal.com/stories/oct05_2.html). The idea of using genetics to prove that Ashkenazi Jews are more intellectually capable but are more predisposed to rare genetic diseases was just interesting considering the whole eugenics movement and the ideas that were involved with the Third Reich, and of course, in our own country. So, my post is kinda wwII associated:rolleyes:

It's interesting to note that in things I've read about Freemasons, alot of those names have popped up. Huxley, Darwin, Wells, and Roosevelt a large amount...

Probably doesn't relate but just thought I'd throw it out there.

It seems to keep coming up, and it's always in the back of my mind when I'm thinking of the clues. I'm pretty sure Freemasons or something similar are going to be tied in soon.

The first event occurred on the morning of 6 August 1945, when the United States dropped a uranium gun-type device code-named "Little Boy" on the Japanese city of Hiroshima. The second event occurred three days later when a plutonium implosion-type device code-named "Fat Man" was dropped on the city of Nagasaki.

The name of the Uranium isotope used in bombs is U235.

So we decided that the word is Malmen on the building in Narvik? And danl08 concluded that it was a Swedish word, right? I did a little research on Sweden during WW2 for Tib's thread, and it turns out that even though they were "neutral," they still provided iron ore and ball bearings to Germany (iron, shootfire?). More problematic, they also held onto gold that the Nazis took from the Jews for decades.

Yes, WIF, the iron came from Sweden that was shipped out of Narvik. Probably completely off topic, but I also noticed that the first American officer killed in WWII was killed in a bombing raid in Norway.

I'm pretty sure Freemasons or something similar are going to be tied in soon.Hmmm...it would seem that some kind of organization outside academia must be involved.

So Tiberius pointed us in the direction of the Shetland Bus yesterday, and I was struck by something.

The Shetland Bus (http://www.shetland-heritage.co.uk/shetlandbus/pages/the_agents.htm) was a resistance operation that would ferry people form Norway to Scotland to get away from the Nazis. The Nazis were onto them, however, and caught a number of these boats. When they were caught, the passengers and crew would often be summarily executed. The Germans were becoming irritated with this and:

On the highest authority in Berlin came the order that the traffic to Shetland must be stopped. The watch which was already kept on the coast was strengthened to make it more difficult to get out. When a young boy disappeared, for example, his father or other family members would be arrested in reprisal.


I don't know, this one description reminded me of the abduction of Walt, and Michael's subsequent capture for some reason. Still trying to figure out how this all applies, or if it does...

Also, on the same page is some interesting discussion about those who were caught, and this incident is standing out to me, but I don't know why:


The full attention of the Gestapo was then centred on Bergen. Through the infiltration of agents and by sealing off the city they managed to round up the illegal organisation known as the Stein group (a resistance group) Some 200 persons were arrested and submitted to hard torture. Among them was the young radio operator Ingebright Valderhaug , who had been back and forth to Shetland and was operating under orders from the Special Operations Executive based in London. He was caught red-handed with his transmitter and became famous for saying that two hours with the Gestapo was like twenty years in a Norwegian jail. He was executed along with many others.

Something about the transmitter is nagging at me. Perhaps I just am hearing echoes of Sayid and radios and torture...

Driven by a need for privacy and a deep-seated sense of humility, Alvar Hanso has released few details of his personal life to the public.

I thought immediately that it is more likely he was a Nazi and or a scientist working for them.
Hitler had quite a few that were well payed for there services.
It has been put forth in a few scenarios of WW2 that the Nazi's new about routs like the
Shetland Bus. When some of them realized that the fall was emanate they themselves used such routs to escape undetected.

Driven by a need for privacy and a deep-seated sense of humility, Alvar Hanso has released few details of his personal life to the public.

I thought immediately that it is more likely he was a Nazi and or a scientist working for them.
Hitler had quite a few that were well payed for there services.
It has been put forth in a few scenarios of WW2 that the Nazi's new about routs like the
Shetland Bus. When some of them realized that the fall was emanate they themselves used such routs to escape undetected.

Wasn't Alvar Hanso introduced as a "Danish" businessman? If so, I can say I have never heard the name before in my many trips to Denmark (over 40 in the last 6 years). Denmark has a long history of being attacked by the Germans who dispute the border between the two countries along the Jutland area. The joke in Denmark is that the border has "moved" over the years both up and down. The Danes also provided fierce resistance to the Nazis in WWII and are were key in keeping many Jews alive by hiding them in their homes and farms.
If Alvar is indeed a former Nazi, then being listed as a Dane might prove to be a good cover.

What is also interesting about Hanso is as other people have pointed out, his name is just two letters short of Han Solo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Solo), who was a smuggler, too. The Star Wars films obviously use World War II as an extended allusion, what with the Evil Empire, and rebel forces, stormtroopers and on and on. This leads one to link Hanso to the "good side" as it were, and as it does in his biography. But I am skeptical.
Don't mean to turn this into a Star Wars discussion, but the allusions are there, for what it's worth.

Wasn't Alvar Hanso introduced as a "Danish" businessman? If so, I can say I have never heard the name before in my many trips to Denmark (over 40 in the last 6 years). Denmark has a long history of being attacked by the Germans who dispute the border between the two countries along the Jutland area. The joke in Denmark is that the border has "moved" over the years both up and down. The Danes also provided fierce resistance to the Nazis in WWII and are were key in keeping many Jews alive by hiding them in their homes and farms.
If Alvar is indeed a former Nazi, then being listed as a Dane might prove to be a good cover.

If we follow this through we can also speculate that, like many he could have acquired false papers saying he was Danish. This would not have been hard to do with Nazi connections. They had confiscated many identity papers. He could have assumed any number of identities and since kept up the pretense. Or he was actually a Dane. Worked for or with Germany and then simply returned home a rich man with an agenda. None the wiser.
The goals of the foundation seem very eerily. They do read like some of the experiments that Nazi Germany conducted during the war.
We watch Raiders of the Lost Ark
and think what a clever plot. In reality Hitler was obsessed with the occult and finding ancient relics of power

The goals of the foundation seem very eerily. They do read like some of the experiments that Nazi Germany conducted during the war.
We watch Raiders of the Lost Ark
and think what a clever plot. In reality Hitler was obsessed with the occult and finding ancient relics of power
ME!!! I think you might be onto something! In the Tib thread, he sent me off looking for the "Spear of Destiny," (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=491390&highlight=spear#post491390) a religious artifact that Hitler (http://www.bibleprobe.com/holy_lance.htm) was obsessed with. Hitler took it when he invaded Austria:

After having declared Austria to be a part of the Third Reich the Austrian born Adolf Hitler had the lance loaded on to an armored SS train and taken to Nuremberg on October 13, 1938. There it remained in St. Catherine's Church for the next 6 years until it was removed to a safer, protective underground vault where Lt. Walter William Horn, army serial number 01326328, of the United States Army took possession of it in the name of the US government at 2:10 PM on April 30, 1945; the same day Adolph Hitler and a woman named Eva Braun were reported to have committed suicide in a bunker outside Berlin. It is also the same day that Munich was captured by Patch’s 7th Army unit. Also, on April 30th, 1945, Germany surrendered ending the Third Reich.

But here's what is interesting: the US supposedly took possesion of it, and returned it to Vienna. Or did they?

With the fall the Soviet Union, and the opening up of Soviet archives in addition to recent testimony by former Soviet soldiers who actually captured Hitler's Bunker in Berlin, we have finally been able to confirm that at approximately 3:30 PM, just 80 minutes after the United States took possession of the Spear, that Hitler committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.

Today the Holy Lance has been returned to the Hofburg Museum. Is it authentic? General George S. Patton thought so. He became fascinated by the spear after the war and had its history traced.

Did Hitler really think possessing the spear would help him win the war? Other historians have found Ravenscroft's research suspicious and his book remains controversial. Alan Baker, author of Invisible Eagle, The History of Nazi Occultism, thinks Hitler was more interested in getting a hold of the Hofburg treasures for financial reasons, not occult reasons. A later book entitled; "Adolf Hitler and the Secrets of the Holy Lance" (by Buechner & Bernhart) claims that a replica of the was returned to the Vienna Museum, while the real lance may have been squirrel-away with outher secret Nazi plundered treasure by Himmler and the SS to South America or Antarctica.

I'm not saying that Hanso has this particular artifact, but what if in his capacity as an arms dealer he took some artifact that Hitler had acquired during the war, and never gave it back?

If Hitler possessed the Spear of destiny. or what people thought was the spear. Weather it was real or not. Weather or not it possessed the power that legend assigned to it, The myth it self would have been enough to spur some on and deter others.
There were other things besides the Spear of destiny that Hitler was looking for not just Christian ones.
All symbols of ultimate power. Weather he believed in there mysticism or just hoped others would is till up for grabs.

The Devil's Black Rock, short story by Kenneth Robeson, read the last chapter XV, this is fiction but take a peak:


The army man -- his name was Saunders -- arrived looking as if he needed sleep. He had Donkey Sam Davis in tow. He dropped in a chair.
"What an afternoon and night!" he complained. "We finally caught all those Nazi agents. Part of them, those in the first car -- the first of the two cars following the trucks -- were killed. But we rounded up the rest."
Doc Savage nodded. "Good. But what about the deposit of black rock in Arizona?"
The army man groaned. "We've got a fast bomber waiting. Donkey Sam, here, is going to fly out with me and show me the deposit. We're going to put a guard over that stuff like the guard over the gold at Fort Knox."
"You better," Donkey Sam said grimly.
The army man looked at Doc Savage. "What I came up here for, Mr. Savage," he said, "was to get the story straight in my mind. I've got to make a report, you know, now that it's all wound up."
Doc Savage was silent a moment. "The black rock -- the black devil isn't a bad name for it, either -- will be the hard part to explain."
The army man nodded. "What would you say it is?"
"A new element, or a hitherto unknown combination of old elements," Doc Savage hazarded.
"Occurring naturally, eh?"
"Yes."
Donkey Sam Davis said, "This place in Arizona where I found it was an upthrust. You know -- some prehistoric upheaval had brought deep subterranean formations to the surface. You find very rare minerals in such places. That's where I found the black rock. It may be the only deposit in the world. I don't know."
"I hope it is," the army man said fervently.
Doc Savage agreed, "It would be bad stuff in the wrong hands -- an explosive so powerful that it does not even act like an explosive."
"Harmless," Donkey Sam reminded, "until alcohol gets on it. In some fashion, alcohol makes it explosive."
The army man shuddered. "Very explosive. The concussion of the shooting being done by those men in the trucks and cars set it off yesterday. I hate to think what would have happened if you had not ordered my men back."

http://arthurwendover.com/arthurs/horror/devrok10.html

Interesting read.

very interesting! :ohmy:

German U-Boat Sank off of "Black Rock", Ireland 1944

https://www.denix.osd.mil/denix/Public/ES-Programs/Conservation/Panther/panther2.html

Oh man!! Thisis very iteresting!!! My grandfather came from The Orkeny Iskands, I wish he could tell me what went on. Sadky he isn't around anymore =( I remeber going over there when I was 16 yrs old and going in some of the bunkers from WWII. HMM Maybe I can ask my Uncle if he knows anything, he has been there a few times!!
Jami

And it has always bothered me, Locke's red Beetle (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=737&pos=110).

Check out Volkswagen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagon)'s history.

Though the origins of the company date back to 1930s, the design for the car that would become known as the Beetle / "Käfer" date back even further, as a pet project by car designer Ferdinand Porsche (1875–1951). Hitler's desire that almost anybody should be able to afford a car coincided with this design—although much of this design was inspired by the advanced Tatra cars of Hans Ledwinka.

Hitler's changes to the original design included more fuel efficiency (to make it more economical for the working man), reliability, ease of use, and economically efficient repairs and parts. The intention was that ordinary Germans would buy the car by means of a savings scheme, which around 336,000 people eventually paid into. VW honored its savings agreements after World War II; Ford, which had a similar "coupon" savings system, reportedly did not. Prototypes of the car called the KdF-Wagen (German: Kraft durch Freude = "strength through joy"), appeared from 1936 onwards (the first cars had been produced in Stuttgart). The car already had its distinctive round shape and air-cooled, flat-four, rear-mounted engine, features similar to the Tatra.

What is also interesting about Hanso is as other people have pointed out, his name is just two letters short of Han Solo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Solo), who was a smuggler, too. The Star Wars films obviously use World War II as an extended allusion, what with the Evil Empire, and rebel forces, stormtroopers and on and on. This leads one to link Hanso to the "good side" as it were, and as it does in his biography. But I am skeptical.
Don't mean to turn this into a Star Wars discussion, but the allusions are there, for what it's worth.We've made the connection to Indian Jones - Raiders of the LOST Ark. But The Last Crusade - has him taking a leap of faith. The Templar Knight waiting for replacement to guard the holy grail.

Remeber all the digging we did about dynamite? Alvar Hanso seems very much like Nobel

Eventually we all wind up in the same place. WIF I agree there is just sooooo much new stuff to read. We now need a reading group thread just to pass on great threads we've found.

Shootfire thanks for the link to the library.

And it has always bothered me, Locke's red Beetle (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=737&pos=110).

Check out Volkswagen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagon)'s history.

You did not know this? I thought this was a well know fact.
Literally translated ( If I remember correctly)
Volks wagen = means peoples venture
It has since come to mean people's car or way of travel.

You did not know this? I thought this was a well know fact.

It is, and I did know it before. It's just that the bug stood out so much on the show, and it seemed like such an obvious symbol for something. It was only just now that I put it together with all the other World War II references in the show.

Other references...I've been thinking about all the locations that have been mentioned or alluded to on the show and their relation to World War II:

Paris, London, Sydney, Baghdad, Narvik, Canada, Rome, Amsterdam, Seoul (obviously the United States). I'm sure I'm leaving some palces out, but they all had some role in World War II (of course, what country didn't...) I don't know. Still trying to hash this out....

I meant no offense. My dad was a collage history teacher. We cut our teeth on history.
It just surprises me somethings, I've heard them all my life, I just take for granted that everyone knows. that's why I asked.

No offense taken. Sometimes it takes a while to put all these pieces together, and I just wanted to make sure that everyone was on the same page.

Hurley describes the hatch as looking like a WW11 bunker, but newer. :cool:

I found another Churchill connection to Narvik.

Colditz Castle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colditz_Castle)


There were also prisoners called Prominente, relatives of Allied VIPs. The first one was Giles Romilly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giles_Romilly), a civilian journalist who was captured in Narvik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narvik), Norway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway) who also happened to be a nephew of Winston Churchill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill). Adolf Hitler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler) himself specified that Romilly was to be treated with the utmost care and that:

The Kommandant and Security Officer answer for Romilly's security with their heads.
His security is to be assured by any and every exceptional measure you care to take.

shootfire has noticed a number of interesting connections to World War II, including the town of Narvik (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=18748&page=7)
over on the Iron Mike (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=532422#post532422) thread. And then shootfire caught the Churchill cigarette case (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21955) with some great connections back to Narvik.
We also know that Hanso (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html) made his name during World War II.

Anything else?

Hanso:



Navrik:



A side-by-side shot (http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~jonkjeti/Lost/Narvik2.jpg) of the Hanso building and Narvik.

Shootfire also points out that Locke was playing Axis and Allies in Walkabout.
Please read my thread entitled: "Theory on what is really happening on Lost" and please give me your feedback. It is a long one. Be patient. Ginbun

Please read my thread entitled: "Theory on what is really happening on Lost" and please give me your feedback. It is a long one. Be patient. GinbunWhy don't you put the link to the thread here? Sometimes it's hard to find the threads with all the catagories and all.

We were talking over The Spear of Destiny
I found this. The man who designed and built Hitler's Bunker was named Spear

Look at these pix....owww is that eerie!
http://www.thirdreichruins.com/Berghofbunker2b.jpg

Me, that really is eery. It bears a really remarkable resemblence to the bunkers the lostaways are using. Good find!!

Ginbun, giving your theory some thought! I'll post when I get my thoughts in order.

Hi Tiberius! Funny seeing you here!

The Shetland Bus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland_Bus).

Hmmm...Norway to Scotland. Why, Desmond's Scottish! Any connection?

More on the Shetland Bus (http://www.shetland-heritage.co.uk/shetlandbus/).


On the thread re: cig case, there is a connection to Scotland in the emblem on the cig case.

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/motto.html

The bomb dropped on Hiroshima was dropped at 8:15 local time - coincidental???

The fountain outside the Narvik City Hall building is in the shape of an octagon, just like our Dharma symbol. It was dedicated to Norwegian resistance fighters IIRC. I'm extremely interested in what the central statue in the fountain represents but haven't found any information on it yet. It's a woman holding an infant, while standing atop a globe.

Shootfire and everyone else,
Have you, or has anyone, discovered yet what that central statue in the fountain represents - who sculpted it and when was it placed there? It's so prominent in the picture of the "Hanso Building" in the film that I cannot believe that it's unimportant.

Shootfire and everyone else,
Have you, or has anyone, discovered yet what that central statue in the fountain represents - who sculpted it and when was it placed there? It's so prominent in the picture of the "Hanso Building" in the film that I cannot believe that it's unimportant.

Aquarian Stella, I kind of hit a roadblock on the statue. I do know that it was erected after WWII and dedicated to resistance fighters in Narvik. I sent an e-mail to a museum in Narvik but didn't get a response. My daughter is going to Norway this summer, and if we haven't learned what it's significance is by then, I'm hoping she will do some research for me. :wink3: John Locke, the Norway mod in the International Terminal, lives in Narvik. Perhaps you could get some answers there. My personal theory is that the statue represents Nott and Dag from Norse mythology.:smile:

I know the Spear of Destiny has been discussed on this thread, but I am adding this additional info which I had put on the Swan Lake thread due to Norse mythology tie-ins discussed there, and I didn't know about this WWII thread:


Quote:
Odin's spear has a couple of different names, one of which is "Spear of Heaven." Made by a dwarf, the spear was said to never miss it's target. It was given to Odin by Loki, the trickster.

shootfire: I thought of some possible related info and I'll put it here, although you may want to start a new thread on Norse connections...am including some Hitler information as many have speculated that the Nazis may be in the story. I am only including it because of the spear connection though. I do wish to make it clear that The Holocaust and Hitler's means were atrocious and in no way am I condoning anything that Hitler or the Nazis did. It is, unfortunately, part of history and therefore up for discussion, IMHO.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that Wagner was inspired by Norse mythology, so if Wagner music shows up in LOST epis, we should take note!

I underlined part of your quote, and part of the Hitler quote below.

Odin's spear (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gungnir)was named "Gungnir" and is also known as the "Swaying One", which can be associated to LOST (and Locke).

The Spear of Destiny (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear_of_Destiny)is the one which pierced Christ's side. There is a book called The Spear of Destiny by Trevor Ravenscroft, chronicling Hitler's obsession with the spear. Adolf Hitler was known to be hunting for the Spear of Destiny, which I am not sure, if it is the same spear. Apparently he did acquire it, according to some sources. Hitler was also hunting for the Holy Grail.

I would love to be able to add either spear to my LOST Treasure (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=28864) list, if there is a good enough connection made in the show.

excerpt from Hitler and The Spear of Destiny (http://web.org.uk/picasso/spear.html) on a UK website:

Stein got to know Hitler because of their mutual interest in the Spear of Destiny - a relic on display in the Hapsburg's treasury at the Hofmuseum in Vienna.
The relic was said to have phenomenal talismanic power having once been used at the Crucifixion to wound the side of Christ. According to legend, possession of the Spear would bring its owner the power to conquer the world, but losing it would bring immediate death. The relic had been owned by a succession of powerful European rulers down through the centuries and eventually came to be in the possession of the Hapsberg Dynasty.

Hitler confided to Stein that the first time he saw the Spear he had witnessed extraordinary visions of his own destiny unfolding before him.



In 1923, on his deathbed, Hitler's mentor Dietrich Eckart, a dedicated Satanist and central figure in the Occult Thule Society and a founder member of the Nazi party, said:'Follow Hitler ! He will dance, but it is I who have called the tune !'
'I have initiated him into the 'Secret Doctrine', opened his centres in vision and given him the means to communicate with the Powers.' 'Do not mourn for me: I shall have influenced history more than any other German.'


On 12th March 1938, the day Hitler annexed Austria, he arrived in Vienna a conquering hero. He first port of call was to the Hofmuseum where he took possession of the Spear which he immediately sent to Nuremberg, the spiritual capital of Nazi Germany. At 2.10 on 30th April, 1945, during the final days of the war, after considerable bombing of Nuremberg, the Spear fell into the hands of the American 7th Army under General Patton. Later that day, in fulfilment of the legend, Hitler committed suicide.

ETA: I should mention that the reason I included the Hitler information is that Hitler was known to have an interest in Norse religion and was attempting to use it not only to his advantage, but for harmful purposes. There are rumors that Odin's spear and The Spear of Destiny are the same spear, but perhaps they are only rumors.

Aquarian Stella, I kind of hit a roadblock on the statue. I do know that it was erected after WWII and dedicated to resistance fighters in Narvik. I sent an e-mail to a museum in Narvik but didn't get a response. My daughter is going to Norway this summer, and if we haven't learned what it's significance is by then, I'm hoping she will do some research for me. :wink3: John Locke, the Norway mod in the International Terminal, lives in Narvik. Perhaps you could get some answers there. My personal theory is that the statue represents Nott and Dag from Norse mythology.:smile:

My sister went there some years ago and I called her after learning its location. She says its right at the Red Cross War Museum dedicated obviously to the soldiers who had lost thier lives, more notably from what she remembers, a tragedy involving soviet POWs and the top-secret allied sepal bases in sweden.
Apparently sections on French and Polish Mountain troops and the French Legion in Narvik were interesting older sections of the museum. Ill have to give her another call.

I have an aerial shot of the fountain and surrounding area thats quite clear...Ill have to find it.

I know the Spear of Destiny has been discussed on this thread, but I am adding this additional info which I had put on the Swan Lake thread due to Norse mythology tie-ins discussed there, and I didn't know about this WWII thread:


shootfire: I thought of some possible related info and I'll put it here, although you may want to start a new thread on Norse connections...am including some Hitler information as many have speculated that the Nazis may be in the story. I am only including it because of the spear connection though. I do wish to make it clear that The Holocaust and Hitler's means were atrocious and in no way am I condoning anything that Hitler or the Nazis did. It is, unfortunately, part of history and therefore up for discussion, IMHO.

The other thing I wanted to mention is that Wagner was inspired by Norse mythology, so if Wagner music shows up in LOST epis, we should take note!



[/INDENT]On 12th March 1938, the day Hitler annexed Austria, he arrived in Vienna a conquering hero. He first port of call was to the Hofmuseum where he took possession of the Spear which he immediately sent to Nuremberg, the spiritual capital of Nazi Germany. At 2.10 on 30th April, 1945, during the final days of the war, after considerable bombing of Nuremberg, the Spear fell into the hands of the American 7th Army under General Patton. Later that day, in fulfilment of the legend, Hitler committed suicide.

ETA: I should mention that the reason I included the Hitler information is that Hitler was known to have an interest in Norse religion and was attempting to use it not only to his advantage, but for harmful purposes. There are rumors that Odin's spear and The Spear of Destiny are the same spear, but perhaps they are only rumors.

Hmmm...I may work on something like that Tabby.

My sister went there some years ago and I called her after learning its location. She says its right at the Red Cross War Museum dedicated obviously to the soldiers who had lost thier lives, more notably from what she remembers, a tragedy involving soviet POWs and the top-secret allied sepal bases in sweden.
Apparently sections on French and Polish Mountain troops and the French Legion in Narvik were interesting older sections of the museum. Ill have to give her another call.

I have an aerial shot of the fountain and surrounding area thats quite clear...Ill have to find it.

dylan_1200, it would be awesome if you could get some more information on it. My scalp would really appreciate it, because this is one of the things that sometimes causes me to pull my hair out. :biggrin: I really, really want to know what the statue represents.

dylan_1200, it would be awesome if you could get some more information on it. My scalp would really appreciate it, because this is one of the things that sometimes causes me to pull my hair out. :biggrin: I really, really want to know what the statue represents.

Ok I gave her a buzz and shes gonna begrudginly dig through some of her photos to see what she has on her trip (shes not a big lost fan) lol. Anyways she gave me this site where I picked up an aerial shot of the fountain and its surrounding area. I noticed the building layout seems distinctively different to that on the film, and the amazing similarity of the fountain to the dharma logos. Anyways she did say the town is steeped in WW2 history and they were warned about being careful on bush treks as a lot of mines, booby traps etc were still present. Yikes lol.

http://museumsnett.no/Krigsminnemuseet/kmmu.gif

Aquarian Stella, I kind of hit a roadblock on the statue. I do know that it was erected after WWII and dedicated to resistance fighters in Narvik. I sent an e-mail to a museum in Narvik but didn't get a response. My daughter is going to Norway this summer, and if we haven't learned what it's significance is by then, I'm hoping she will do some research for me. :wink3: John Locke, the Norway mod in the International Terminal, lives in Narvik. Perhaps you could get some answers there. My personal theory is that the statue represents Nott and Dag from Norse mythology.:smile:

Perhpas you've already found what's so important about it--perhaps it's not the mythology itself or who the woman and child are that is important. Perhaps it is that the staute was dedicated in honor of the resistance fighters of World War II. Tibs clue was The Shetland Bus (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=534936&postcount=3), which was another Norweigian resistance group, and Hanso (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/alvarhanso.html) made his name originally by arming resistance fighters in the war:

Driven by a need for privacy and a deep-seated sense of humility, Alvar Hanso has released few details of his personal life to the public.

He first made his mark during the Second World War, providing munitions to various resistance movements around Europe. After the War, Hanso became the leading purveyor of high-technology armaments to NATO.

And Javi's response to Passenger 23's question (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27106&highlight=narvik) regarding the building was interesting:

the man in the window is indeed alvar hanso - what he was doing in narvik, at that window, remains shrouded in mystery. alvar hanso is an extremely mysterious and reclusive man who protects his privacy jealously...

thanks for ther question!

ja
vi

What he was doing in Narvik remains shrouded in mystery?
Could he have been calling in a favor in exchange for his previous help in the Narvik resistance, perhaps?

Aquarian Stella, I kind of hit a roadblock on the statue. I do know that it was erected after WWII and dedicated to resistance fighters in Narvik. I sent an e-mail to a museum in Narvik but didn't get a response. My daughter is going to Norway this summer, and if we haven't learned what it's significance is by then, I'm hoping she will do some research for me. :wink3: John Locke, the Norway mod in the International Terminal, lives in Narvik. Perhaps you could get some answers there. My personal theory is that the statue represents Nott and Dag from Norse mythology.:smile:
I asked Myha and here is her response (I had trouble removing all the underlines):
http://home.online.no/~torgeir/minne...entet-1956.jpg (http://home.online.no/~torgeir/minnesmerker/bilder%20minnesmerker/frihetsmonumentet-1956.jpg)
that's a pretty good pic...
The statue is called "the liberty monument" popularly called "the lady in the square".
(http://home.online.no/~torgeir/minnesmerker/bilder%20minnesmerker/frihetsmonumentet-1956.jpg)http://home.online.no/~torgeir/minne...monumentet.htm (http://home.online.no/~torgeir/minnesmerker/frihetsmonumentet.htm)

(http://home.online.no/~torgeir/minnesmerker/bilder%20minnesmerker/frihetsmonumentet-1956.jpg)
Quote:
Statuen er en rank kvinne med barnet høyt hevet på armen som symboliserer ” Liv opp av kaos” .

Vekst er symbolisert av rosenknoppen kvinnen står på.

Statuen er utført av billedhuggeren Finn Eriksen og plassert på Narvik torv. Statuen ble avduket den 30. juni 1956 av statsråd Åse Bjerkholdt.

translation: "The statue is a lean woman with her child highly raised on her arm, symbolizing "life up from chaos".
Growth is symbolized by the rosebud the woman is standing on.
The statue was made by sculptor Finn Eriksen and plazed in Narvik city square. The statue was unveiled June 30th 1956 by government official Åse Bjerkholdt."

I can't find anything in particular about the people in the statue, they are not historical persons.
The only thing I think I can help you with to elaborate on the statue and the usage of that in the imagery is a bit on Narvik's role in WW2...
I don't know if that's interesting at all?

translation: "The statue is a lean woman with her child highly raised on her arm, symbolizing "life up from chaos".
Growth is symbolized by the rosebud the woman is standing on.
The statue was made by sculptor Finn Eriksen and plazed in Narvik city square. The statue was unveiled June 30th 1956 by government official Åse Bjerkholdt."

That's really interesting, Tabby! "Life up from chaos" -- "Growth" -- Could these be veiled references to projects on our island related to life extension, and/or immortality, and/or DNA manipulation to advance the human race???? Ummmm.....

THIS is a FANTASTIC thread! I'm going to have to read it a few times to make sure I got it all but am very very impressed, reading all this I'm begining to get very very confused, Hanso isn't a real man is he? Loosing grip on reality here.

I'm newish to the site and only have watched most episodes once so I don't seem to know as much as everything else. HOW do u all find out this stuff? JJ must have spend god knows how long researching for the LOST script, I'm absolutely Flabbergasted at the DEPTH to it.

Haven't said anything useful but feeling quite off balence, half wish I didn't know about this site or even started watching LOST. Its FAR too adictive! Argh I don't mean that!
Someone tell me whats real and whats not.

so over the past few days I've been wondering if Christian was also a project. Hanso was a smuggler and he has ties to Norway, as we know. The Nazi program of SS babies (http://www.rickross.com/reference/hate_groups/hategroups164.html) also extended to Norway. From the site linked:

The fate of the children would be cruelest in Norway. The SS never destroyed the Lebensborn files there, but after the Third Reich capitulated on May 8, 1945, thousands of Lebensborn babies and their mothers faced the wrath of their liberated countrymen. Many women and their kids were harassed, beaten and called "Nazi swine" by teachers, schoolmates and neighbors. Police sent some 14,000 women and girls who had slept with Wehrmacht soldiers to internment camps. The head of Norway's largest mental hospital stated that women who had mated with German soldiers were "mental defectives" and concluded that 80 percent of their progeny must be retarded.

What if Christian was a product of a more intensive eugenics experiment, and Hanso smuggled him out of Norway, along with other, let's just say, 'interesting' projects.

No direct reference from the show, although it would fit in with the taken children. Hanso takes Christian, finds a stable home for him, which allow his talents to be fulfilled, allow him to go to good schools, etc..

Pure, pure, pure speculation. Just been stuck in my head, needed to get it out...

so over the past few days I've been wondering if Christian was also a project. Hanso was a smuggler and he has ties to Norway, as we know. The Nazi program of SS babies (http://www.rickross.com/reference/hate_groups/hategroups164.html) also extended to Norway. From the site linked:



What if Christian was a product of a more intensive eugenics experiment, and Hanso smuggled him out of Norway, along with other, let's just say, 'interesting' projects.

No direct reference from the show, although it would fit in with the taken children. Hanso takes Christian, finds a stable home for him, which allow his talents to be fulfilled, allow him to go to good schools, etc..

Pure, pure, pure speculation. Just been stuck in my head, needed to get it out...as you know cmcd, i understand the "stuck in my head" thing!

this would tie in with my feeling about jack, sarah and the baby. if christian was part of the experiment, so too, would be his descendents....

I think we can add Zeke's German Luger to the list of WWII Clues. Now the question is where did he get it, a gift from Alvar Hanso perhaps?

I posted in the "weapons" thread about this:
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=33565

....but there's always a chance that it's not a German Luger that you're looking at. Personally, I side with the idea that the producers were trying to suggest it WAS a German gun, to give a clue.

But there's a similar looking gun that was produced by the Japanese:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambu_pistol

It is a luger. That is definitive and not open to debate.
People who suggest it is a Nambu are usually trying to make a Japanese/Pacific connection just to fit their island theories which is extremely bad practice.

As for this thread the Narvik side by side .jpeg is the only thing I think anyone shold be taking as gospel since it's clear they are the same place. As for the rest of it I think that like most things in lost, it's just too open eneded to theorise on. There never seems to be enough evidence for a convincing theory.

As Othello would say: Be sure of it; give me the ocular proof.

Scott
Check out that thread again and see the pic I posted as a comparison

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=33565

Veiny Eyeball: there's no indication that the numbers have been broadcast since WW2. Here is the transcript form Numbers:



So, Lenny and Sam heard the numbers when they were at a Pacific listening post 16 years ago. The naval posts themselves may be holdovers from WW2, but I haven't seen anything that indicates that the numbers themselves have been broadcast since then...
But it would have been a good connection.:ohwell:

hmm- 16 yrs. ago...Danielle?:undecide: also, 16:one of the "cursed #'s"

Interesting that Hurley misspeaks and refers to the beechcraft as a "Norwegian Plane" and that the radio broadcast is playing music from the WWII era. It sounded to me like the announcer said it was a "USO" broadcast...

True, cmcd. I think you may have heard correctly.

Glenn Miller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Miller) (thanks to Stick Mang for posting about this in Tiberius):

Alton Glenn Miller (March 1, 1904 – December 15, 1944) was an American jazz musician and band leader in the Swing era. After a very successful career, including many famous recordings, he disappeared under mysterious circumstances during World War II.

Military service, disappearance, and personality

In 1942, Miller joined the United States Air Force and was commissioned as a Captain. He was also appointed Commander of the Band and devoted himself to reorganising it. Then he formed the Glenn Miller Army Air Force Band, which gave more than 800 performances for U.S. servicemen overseas in two years. Ray McKinley, Bobby Nichols, Hank Freeman, Peanuts Hucko and Mel Powell were among the musicians in the band. Johnny Desmond and the Crew Chiefs were the singers. For many years, the only available recordings of this band, was a five-record set issued by RCA in the mid-fifties. Since the nineties however, RCA and various companies have issued high fidelity compact discs of music previously thought lost.

On December 15, 1944, he was scheduled to fly from England to Paris to play for the soldiers who had recently liberated the city. His plane departed from Twinwoods Airfield, Clapham, a village near Bedford, but disappeared over the English Channel and was never found. Miller's disappearence remains a mystery; the fact that neither Miller's remains nor the wreckage of his plane (a single-engined Noorduyn Norseman UC-64, USAAF Tail Number 44-70285) were ever recovered from the Channel have led to many conspiracy theories over the years. A popular theory holds that, in the foggy weather that bedeviled the Channel on that day, Glenn Miller's plane strayed into a "safe drop" zone and was bombed out of the air by Canadian Air Force bombers disposing of bombs that went unused during an aborted bombing run on German positions. Despite Miller's disappearence, his band continued to play for troops until August 1945, when the members were discharged and returned to New York.

Interesting that Hurley misspeaks and refers to the beechcraft as a "Norwegian Plane" and that the radio broadcast is playing music from the WWII era. It sounded to me like the announcer said it was a "USO" broadcast...

This poster says he/she heard :"up next on WXR the Glenn Miller Orchestra with Moonlight Serenade". http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=36450&page=10

Also in this thread: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=36450 "Apparently, the call letters named on the shortwave radio were WXR which were the call leters used for Coast Guard Radio in Kodiak, Alaska in 1945."

I googled "wxr Alaska in 1945" and found the website linked below. This is a quote from the website: "He described the facility as a direction finding station." Which I found interesting. Here's the link: http://209.165.152.119/chiniak/cg.html

Who knows if there are any clues here...

:)

Did anyone find it odd that Sawyer refered to Sun as "Tokyo Rose".

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmtokyorose.html

Such a good catch, Punk!

Or that Glenn Miller was born in Iowa.

http://www.who2.com/glennmiller.html

This poster says he/she heard :"up next on WXR the Glenn Miller Orchestra with Moonlight Serenade". http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=36450&page=10

Also in this thread: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=36450 "Apparently, the call letters named on the shortwave radio were WXR which were the call leters used for Coast Guard Radio in Kodiak, Alaska in 1945."

I googled "wxr Alaska in 1945" and found the website linked below. This is a quote from the website: "He described the facility as a direction finding station." Which I found interesting. Here's the link: http://209.165.152.119/chiniak/cg.html

Who knows if there are any clues here...

:)

On that same site, on the main page, there is a link to information about "submarine cables" on the island(s). Here is a link: http://209.165.152.119/radios/sub_cable.html Check out the first group of pictures! And it even invovles a magnetic field!

Here's another link on the cables: http://home.iprimus.com.au/waldingr/usnlrs.htm

The relevance to WWII is "By 1942 the United States had adapted this technology for its own needs."

Does our island have an Indicator Loop? I wish I had a screen cap of the cable going into the ocean. I can't remember if it's coated with something or just bare wire.

I just thought it was very interesting.

On that same site, on the main page, there is a link to information about "submarine cables" on the island(s). Here is a link: http://209.165.152.119/radios/sub_cable.html Check out the first group of pictures! And it even invovles a magnetic field!

Here's another link on the cables: http://home.iprimus.com.au/waldingr/usnlrs.htm

The relevance to WWII is "By 1942 the United States had adapted this technology for its own needs."

Does our island have an Indicator Loop? I wish I had a screen cap of the cable going into the ocean. I can't remember if it's coated with something or just bare wire.

I just thought it was very interesting.
I believe it was coated
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=77&pos=9
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=77&pos=10

Does this help at all?

On that same site, on the main page, there is a link to information about "submarine cables" on the island(s). Here is a link: http://209.165.152.119/radios/sub_cable.html Check out the first group of pictures! And it even invovles a magnetic field!

Here's another link on the cables: http://home.iprimus.com.au/waldingr/usnlrs.htm

The relevance to WWII is "By 1942 the United States had adapted this technology for its own needs."

Does our island have an Indicator Loop? I wish I had a screen cap of the cable going into the ocean. I can't remember if it's coated with something or just bare wire.

I just thought it was very interesting.

Excellent!

I followed your link above and wouldn't you know....many of these Submarine loop stations were located off the coasts of Australia & New Zealand.

Here's a diagram of the cable: http://home.iprimus.com.au/waldingr/cable1989.jpg

That pic & tons of info on one the stations is here: http://home.iprimus.com.au/waldingr/bribie.htm

Indicator Loops were long lengths of cable laid on the seabed to detect enemy submarines. They were developed by the Royal Navy in the early 1900s and used in their ports both home and in the Dominions (Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Ceylon, Penang). The RAN was responsible for their installation and development in Australia from 1939 onwards. They were further developed by the United States Navy from 1940 onwards.

The Devil's Black Rock, short story by Kenneth Robeson, read the last chapter XV, this is fiction but take a peak:



http://arthurwendover.com/arthurs/horror/devrok10.html

Interesting read.

For myself anyway, this makes me conclude that there is some type of major explosive on the island and the button actually does have a purpose.

Ok yet another world war II thing

from the blacklight map we have CV1,CV2 CV3, CV4 which are all boats in world war II

CV 1 USS LANGLEY

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/01.htm
Bombed by Japanese aircraft, 27 February 1942, and scuttled by her escorting destroyers, about 75 miles south of Tjilatjap, Java.16 of her crew were lost with the ship and remain on duty.

CV 2 USS Lexington

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-l/cv2.htm
Lexington was in the Pacific when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and took part in the U.S.
Navy's first wartime operation, the abortive attempt in December 1941 to relieve Wake Island


CV 3 USS Saratoga
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-s/cv3.htm
Bikini Atomic Bomb Tests


CV 4 USS Ranger
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-r/cv4.htm
North Africa Invasion

Ok yet another world war II thing

from the blacklight map we have CV1,CV2 CV3, CV4 which are all boats in world war II

Cool connection, happypixie...wonder why those entries are shown on various locations on the map? Did the boats end up on the Island?

Cool connection, happypixie...wonder why those entries are shown on various locations on the map? Did the boats end up on the Island?

I am not saying this is a fact but it is an interestin idea.

When we look at the black rock and where it is on the island and the planes that have crashed and now the balloon. it is an interesting idea

Wow, what a fantastic thread! There is enough content here to keep me busy reading for days, which is a happy prospect.

On the literary allusion side of the WWII clues, I think immediately of Lord of the Flies, which has been directly referenced on Lost but is also clearly one of the great 'source texts' for stories about plane crashes on islands.

Lord of the Flies is set during WWII, and the microcosm of the boys on the island and their struggle with savagery/civility is often referenced within the context of the 'macrocosm' of the world events unfolding around them during the height of WWII.

Not anything major, but another reference to WWII, reinforcing the importance of the connection.

Gotta new one, thanks to the new revamped www.thehansofoundation.org site:

One of the executives: Thomas Werner Mittlewerk

Mittlewerk (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Air_Power/Missiles/AP29.htm) was a Nazi underground missile facility that utilized concentration camp slave labor.

It was not until 1942 that they had developed a missile, the A4, that gained the German army’s interest. During a test on August 16, 1942, the A4 became the first vehicle to break the sound barrier when it sped into the sky. In future tests, the missile reached an altitude of 37 miles (60 kilometers), a range of 119 miles (192 kilometers), a flight time of four minutes and 55 seconds, and a final speed of 0.75 mile per second (1.2 kilometers per second). Hitler ordered full-scale production of the A4, armed with a 2,000-pound (907-kilogram) warhead of high explosives, in December 1942. The rushed production meant that many kinks remained.



The Germans built the weapon at a large underground facility called Mittlewerk that was staffed with slave labor transferred from the Buchenwald concentration camp. Conditions at the facility were horrific, and thousands of prisoners died due to malnutrition, disease, exhaustion, or hangings by camp guards.

Here's one associated with the White Rabbit that I just found. The White Rabbit being Christian in Season One, and my current, yet ongoing fixation, (see the White Rabbit (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=47453) theory). White Rabbit was a code name for a French Resistance fighter, F.F.E. Yeo-Thomas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._F._E._Yeo-Thomas), who has a very interesting story summed up quite well in the speech given during the King's George Cross award (King's Cross, of course being where Christian died) interesting that he was sent to Buchenwald, a work camp, isn't todell?

The KING has been graciously pleased to award the George Cross to Acting Wing Commander Forest Frederick Edward YEO-THOMAS, M.C. (89215), Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve.
This officer was parachuted into France on 25th February, 1943. He showed much courage and initiative during his mission, particularly when he enabled a French officer who was being followed by a Gestapo agent in Paris to reach safety and resume clandestine work in another area. He also took charge of a U.S. Army Air Corps officer who had been shot down and, speaking no French, was in danger of capture. This officer returned to England on the 15th April, 1943, in the aircraft which picked up Wing Commander Yeo-Thomas.
Wing Commander Yeo-Thomas undertook a second mission on the 17th September, 1943. Soon after his arrival in France many patriots were arrested. Undeterred, he continued his enquires and obtained information which enabled the desperate situation being rectified. On six occasions he narrowly escaped arrest. He returned to England on the 15th November, 1943, bringing British intelligence archives which he had secured from a house watched by the Gestapo.

Wing Commander Yeo-Thomas was later transferred to a work kommando for Jews. In attempting to escape he was picked up by a German patrol and, claiming French nationality, was transferred to a camp near Marienburg for French prisoners of war. On the 16th April, 1945, he led a party of 20 in a most gallant attempt to escape in broad daylight. 10 were killed by fire from the guards. Those who reached cover split up into small groups. Wing Commander Yeo-Thomas became separated from his companions after 3 days without food. He continued alone for a week and was recaptured when only 800 yards from the American lines. A few days later he escaped with a party of 10 French prisoners of war, whom he led through German patrols to the American lines.
Wing Commander Yeo-Thomas thus turned his final mission into a success by his determined opposition to the enemy, his strenuous efforts to maintain the morale of his fellow-prisoners and his brilliant escape activities. He endured brutal treatment and torture without flinching and showed the most amazing fortitude and devotion to duty throughout his service abroad, during which he was under the constant threat of death.

I think more and more that Christian was a double agent. Perhaps he knew what would happen and wanted to guarantee that he'd end up on the island, like FFE dropping in to enemy lines. or, Maybe he needed protection because he had gotten some information from the organization he wasn't supposed to have?

Do you think Christian randomly met AL in the airport bar, or was he waiting for her hoping she would come in for a drink after work?

Do you think Christian randomly met AL in the airport bar, or was he waiting for her hoping she would come in for a drink after work?
Great question! I'll bet she was the type who had predictable routines and hangouts. If she'd been preselected, he's the perfect choice to be assigned to strike up a rapport with her - hard-drinking, reckless, unattached, rich, sophistocated...He could have easily known her history, her habits, picked a time she'd be on her shift, made sure to get "wanded," be waiting at her regular after-shift airport bar, etc., etc.
But why? To get her onto 815?

Gotta new one, thanks to the new revamped www.thehansofoundation.org site:

One of the executives: Thomas Werner Mittlewerk

Mittlewerk (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Air_Power/Missiles/AP29.htm) was a Nazi underground missile facility that utilized concentration camp slave labor.

Nice catch...was gonna add this myself. Also of note....Thomas Pychon's novel Gravity's Rainbow, which is about the V2 rockets and the Mittlewerke, revolves around what is known as the "Black Rocket"....really tenuous stretch, I know, but it was the first thing I thought of when I saw his name and the Black Rock. Also deals with unethical experimentation of a man since infancy to train him to react certain ways later in life...his father sold him into that deal, so, you could say that like so many of our castaways, he didn't have the best of relations with his parents. The name of the scientist who did the experiments in the book was Laszlo Jamf, which sounds a wee bit like Hanzo, though again I'm probably just projecting.

The book is interesting in a lot of other ways, though...whole lot about numerology and the tarot which I can see tying into some of the things I look at here in Lost

Didn't Mikheal say he was at a listening post in Vladivostok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladivostok)

interesting it connected to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhote-Alin_Meteorite

The Swastika and Dharmatic Religion .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The Swastika and Dharmatic Religion .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

If there submarine's turn out to be U-Boats I'm in.