I was talking to a friend who saw his first episode of lost, which was the Orientation episode, and he found these things after doing some research. Sounds interesting to me.

Found this link when searching for "108 minutes satellite orbit". The 108 fits, the near the equator fits, and it mentions the "swan". Not sure what to make of it. With all the equipment we see in the hatch it might have been a reset for the satellite or a download of information gathered by the satellite. The code and button need to be entered every 108 minutes to reset the satellite.

http://www.uen.org/swan/argos.html
How the Argos System Works

N.O.A.A. satellites orbit every 108 minutes or about 14 times a day. The satellite scans a 5,000 kilometer wide area as it passes. The satellite is within transmitter range for about 10 minutes. If the transmitter is sending then the satellite will receive multiple messages from the swan's transmitter.
Because of the earth's rotation a transmitter at the equator would be scanned once a day while a transmitter at the pole could be scanned 14 times a day.
http://www.uen.org/swan/images/argosth.gif (http://www.uen.org/swan/images/Argos.gif)
(click for bigger image)
When the satellite passes one of three main ground stations, it downloads the information to computers. The computers then calculate the location of the swan and send the owner of the transmitter an E-mail message.

The Shadow-A-Swan website then updates the archive for each swan, maps the longitude and latitude and calculates the distance traveled since the last reported location.

Perhaps if it is a satellite and the hatch is the electromagnetic station, then the satellite is a MagSat or supposed to be one. There were MagSat's launched in 1979 and I'm sure more before and after that. The satellite launch may have been part of the research project and may not have been just for monitoring magnetic fields but for changing magnetic fields. If the fields were altered, there may be severe consequences hence the need to keep the satellite over that location to keep the earth under control. If the numbers are latitude and longitude coordinates then when entered in sequence, the location is in the Central African Republic......which has a magnetic anomaly in Bangui, Central African Republic. (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc99/pdf/5087.pdf#search='magnetic%20central%20african%20re public%20anomaly')

Just some thoughts, throwing it out there if it already hasn't been discussed.

Well that is just too interesting. That number 108 sure gets around.

having both the number 108 and the 'swan' in a paragraph seems more than a coincidence to me. good find.

IMO, this can not be a coincidence. My husband made the satellite connection right away, but we have not ever heard of the "swan" reference. Nice work!

Dang good catch. I had thought about this also and got sidetracked with dancing polar bears but good job picking up the research and pushing this 108minute aspect forward. Very plausible why they have to enter the code in every 108 minutes. Still back to the why than?

Because of the earth's rotation a transmitter at the equator would be scanned once a day while a transmitter at the pole could be scanned 14 times a day.

And them being near the pole would mean they would get covered by satelitte every 108 minutes as opposed to closer the equater. Nice work finding this. Real intriguing stuff. Just when I thought there wouldnt any new "breakthroughs" this week.

well, as far as orbits go you can set an orbit time however you want it... geosynchranous orbits are just under 24hrs while others can be much faster....
***Yuri Gregarin's first space flight had an orbit time of exactly 108 minutes*** before orbit decay started him on his way back down to earth...

I'd postulate that they are resettling the satellite orbit trak... but in that case, with minor corrections every orbit you'd require a major adjustment every 23 days or so. Which would one would think would cause a very noticible shift in the "ocean" on the "island" since its a fluid body sourrounding the solid mass being repositioned...
Hey wait a second............................. wreckage reclamation?

The swan reference in that pasted text is actually about swans, literally. There is a project whereby people can adopt a swan and track it by satellite to follow its migration. I found that text last night and thought I was on to something, and then I made it to the homepage for the "Shadow-A-Swan" project and realized it's all coincidence. The info about the Argos satellite and 108 minutes is accurate, though.

Hmm maybe it's keeping something of importence in orbit.

Wow! Great research. :) That's the most likely explanation that I've heard so far. I think that's why the people that started the experiment are putting so much emphasis on pressing the button, since it's a research project, so that they can monitor the experiement and know that it is still ok.

Woah, Great stuff Negcreep.
You gotta get your friend to watch the first 26 episodes and see what he turns up!

If the experiment is being monitored, by the executing of the numbers, then
if no one hit the key, those monitoring it might take a trip to the Island to
check things out, and rescue the survivors (?).

I think the satellite idea may be pointing us in the right direction. I'm thinking that the 108 minute button push cycle was established for at least two reasons:

1. To transmit the Station ID (i.e. the numbers on the hatch) to a satellite on a regular basis to let Dharma know that the station is still inhabited and functional

2. To give the station personnel a task/purpose so that they don't go whacko with boredom/island fever and end up killing each other

The station ID number (i.e The Numbers) may have been derived from some sort of mathematical mysticism/formula. This would explain why the military listening post's crew members (and eventually Hurley) were able to use the numbers to succeed (and fail) at various tasks. After all, they were probably just listening to the Swan's transmission every 108 minutes! Those numbers would definitely stick in your head after hearing them that often over a long period of time.

As to what other purpose the transmission of the numbers might serve (cloaking the island, maintaining the power on the island, etc)...well, I guess we'll find out sooner or later :lipsseal:

I picked up on the satellite bit almost immediately, but it troubled me from the outset. The notion that a satellite would remain in the same orbit and pass overhead at exactly 108 minutes 0 seconds, every day for about 25 years set off all sorts of bogosity alarms.


Sats at altitudes of about 1500 km have an orbit of about 1:40, 110 minutes. 108 is perfect for that scenario. But due to all sorts of subtle effects such as precession on the orbit’s apogee to atmospheric drag, orbits do change constantly.


Furthermore it would be impossible to expect a spacecraft to go overhead on a regular basis like that except under two conditions: 1. The spacecraft was exactly in an equatorial orbit, with no deviation whatsoever. In order to do that the launch site would have to be at the equator, latitude 0 degs, 00 mins 00 seconds, folks. No room for errors. The receiving station could be up to about 2500 miles north or south of the equator however. The closer, the longer the time the sat is visible, the more room for error in time.

The other scenario would be for the sat to be in exactly a polar orbit and the island to be some weirdo polar experiment but it would have to be exactly (there’s that word again) at either the North or South pole. But the sunrise/set and the constellations would give that away immediately.
If these conditions are not met, say if the sat is at an inclination of 10 degrees to the equator, then sometimes the time may be 108 minutes, others, it might be 106 minutes. Othertimes it just might not be visible at all.


So if the countdown has to do with maintaining comm with a sat, no way could the Dharma designers assume that the spacecraft would be visible for more than a few months at most without having to have constant tracking updates. Either that or the writers didn’t do their homework on this one. Plus the shelter would have to have an antenna system up in the trees somewhere so a cable should be clearly visible.


But the countdown could also just be a psychological experiment with 108 chosen just in case someone knew something about satellites.

Cheers,

Mike

Proxima,

The Argos system is on a near-polar orbit. The satellite passes about 14 times a day at the poles, and 6-7 times a day at the equator.

The ability to receive information from the satellites does not seem to be contingent on being located at the north or south pole. And, therefore, the ability to communicate with the satallites doesn't seem to be contingent upon that either.

I'm not sure what you're saying, honestly.

http://www.argosinc.com/documents/sysdesc.pdf

P.S. please check out the site, which indicates that the French have a Global Processing Center, in addition to the one in the U.S., and that a Regional Center is located in Australia. http://www.argosinc.com/documents/sysdesc.pdf

I found this yesterday at http://marvincandle.com/


http://web.dmi.dk/fsweb/projects/oersted/mission/objectives.html

Proxima,

The Argos system is on a near-polar orbit. The satellite passes about 14 times a day at the poles, and 6-7 times a day at the equator.

The ability to receive information from the satellites does not seem to be contingent on being located at the north or south pole. And, therefore, the ability to communicate with the satallites doesn't seem to be contingent upon that either.

I'm not sure what you're saying, honestly.

http://www.argosinc.com/documents/sysdesc.pdf


Proxima didn't say that you have to be on a pole to communicate with this sattelite. But the sattelite does not fly over a certain point of the surface of the earth every 108 minutes APART from the poles. So it makes no sense to press the button every 108 minutes besides the hatch is located on the poles, which is not possible because of the day/night cycle on the island.

You must not forget that the earth rotates relative to the sattelite orbit.

Is that marvin candle site legit?

Well that is just too interesting. That number 108 sure gets around.

Well, that is great, but what is uen.org? This appears to be a pretty intelliegent crowd so can someone please explain to me the DHARMA logo in my toilet tank. (link to my message below) I'm serious. This is not a joke. I can send more picture if you'd like.

Is that marvin candle site legit?

who knows, that backwards text says:
"Welcome, I'm Dr. Marvin Candle. Since you've found this I assume you've watched the orientation film for "The Swan" and found me through ARPANET. I hope your stay at the research facility is going well. You must follow the rules for the greater good of The Dharma Initiative. I may post important updates on the upkeep of the facility here. Namaste."

The rest is just the Number sequence in different forms. The problem I have is that the Orientation film, while incomplete I beleive is was supposed to say "Do not use the computer for anything but entering the number sequence." or something like that but its spliced out. But ARPANET aka "The Internet" would not be accessible. Not to mention if they could get onto ARPANET they could send someone an email :)

I found this yesterday at http://marvincandle.com/

http://web.dmi.dk/fsweb/projects/oersted/mission/objectives.html

Is that marvin candle site legit?
I don't think it's legit at all. Here's the register info:
The Lars Navaho Foundation

Poste Restante
Island of Tyranga, Cave land 481516
Tuvalu

Registered through: Mad Dog Domains and Cattle Company
Domain Name: MARVINCANDLE.COM
Created on: 25-Oct-05
Expires on: 25-Oct-06
Last Updated on: 25-Oct-05

Administrative Contact:
Navaho, Lars [removed for privacy]@marvincandle.com
The Lars Navaho Foundation
Poste Restante
Island of Tyranga, Cave land 481516
Tuvalu
46[removed for privacy]
Technical Contact:
Navaho, Lars [removed for privacy]@marvincandle.com
The Lars Navaho Foundation
Poste Restante
Island of Tyranga, Cave land 481516
Tuvalu
46[removed for privacy]

Notice the "address" and zip code. LOL And when I just went there, all I got was a blank white screen. No source code at all. Strange ...

I also found this link on Tuvalu: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tv.html

Also the DHARMAINDUSTRIES.COM register info has the same phone number beginning (the 46) and they show being registered in S.E. (PostAddress..: Fajansstigen 11
PostCode.....: 196 38
PostArea.....: Kungs?ngen
Country......: SE)

So, my guess is that they are both some how connected and not legit.

This is a neat idea but it's off base.

The EXECUTE button doesn't get pressed every 108 minutes. What I saw was that when you press the button the counter resets to zero. But you will not always wait until the last second. Sometimes you press it 107 minutes after the previous; sometimes 106 mintues, etc. The maximum period is 108 minutes but the average will be less and not be deterministic.

Whereas a satellite orbit would have a very repeatable period, the pressing of the EXECUTE button does not. It would not take long for these two sequences to get out of sync.

This is a neat idea but it's off base.

The EXECUTE button doesn't get pressed every 108 minutes. What I saw was that when you press the button the counter resets to zero. But you will not always wait until the last second. Sometimes you press it 107 minutes after the previous; sometimes 106 mintues, etc. The maximum period is 108 minutes but the average will be less and not be deterministic.

Whereas a satellite orbit would have a very repeatable period, the pressing of the EXECUTE button does not. It would not take long for these two sequences to get out of sync.

You're assuming the countdown always starts immediately after the code has been entered. Assume instead that it doesn't restart when it's reset, but when there's 108 minutes until the next 4-minute timeframe runs out. Meaning if you have 4 minutes and enter the code after 30 seconds, the counter starts after 3:30. If you enter the code when there's only 20 seconds left, it starts after 20 seconds. That way it's always in sync.

See, we don't know if the countdown starts immediately. All we've seen is the timer resetting after the code has been input, but then it just sits there. We haven't watched it for 1 minute straight and seen it go down to 107.

You're assuming the countdown always starts immediately after the code has been entered. Assume instead that it doesn't restart when it's reset, but when there's 108 minutes until the next 4-minute timeframe runs out. Meaning if you have 4 minutes and enter the code after 30 seconds, the counter starts after 3:30. If you enter the code when there's only 20 seconds left, it starts after 20 seconds. That way it's always in sync.

See, we don't know if the countdown starts immediately. All we've seen is the timer resetting after the code has been input, but then it just sits there. We haven't watched it for 1 minute straight and seen it go down to 107.

I wish it was still on my DVR and I could go back and look... what I recall is that when EXECUTE is pressed the counter goes to 108:00, then 107:59, 107:58, ... Since there is a seconds counter, you don't have to wait 1 minute straight to see it ticking.

Not sure I'm remembering correctly... anybody else can confirm?

I wish it was still on my DVR and I could go back and look... what I recall is that when EXECUTE is pressed the counter goes to 108:00, then 107:59, 107:58, ... Since there is a seconds counter, you don't have to wait 1 minute straight to see it ticking.

Not sure I'm remembering correctly... anybody else can confirm?

It doesn't start ticking, I've checked that. The seconds digits don't seem to be in use until the buzzer starts, indicating T minus 4 minutes.

I saw that theory in a french site, it makes sens and I really like it.

Good catch! I didn't even think of a Low-Earth Orbiting satellite! Although, by the look of the rest of the Utah Educational Network site, I think the swan thing is a coincidence. They're tracking the migration patterns of trumpeter swans or something like that.

Oh yeah, it's definitely something to do with mapping satellites. One of the clues on the Marvin Candle page http://marvincandle.com/ leads to the Orstead project (http://web.dmi.dk/fsweb/projects/oersted/mission/objectives.html), which looks like a Swedish satellite that's mapping the Earth's magnetic field. There's also a link to the Swedish Space Agency in that little treasure-trove of clues!

"Plus the shelter would have to have an antenna system up in the trees somewhere so a cable should be clearly visible."


There was a cable clearly visible; remember the cable Sayid found on the beach (season 1, episode 9)? Maybe it went out to some sort of underwater transmitter?