I am probaby going to get a lot of grief from this post because I know there are a lot of Locke fans out there but I need to speak my mind.

How do you feel about Locke telling people what to do? I liked him a lot at first, but after this last episode he comes off a little annoying with the way he tells people what to do and how much he seems to be enjoying it.

Last week he told Jack that he had to enter numbers. I was thinking...umm...NO. Your game, Locke; you enter the stupid numbers. I was hoping Jack would grow a back bone and leave Locke to do his own project. But we saw how that ended.

And then he told Hurley that he had to be in charge of the food. He told him he couldn't quit. Hurley could've walked away...passed the duty on to Kate or Rose. Sure it ended well with the food. I just didn't like him ordering Hurley like that.

I know that Locke somehow has this skill of knowing what is best for the gang. He just seems to be enjoying his challenges a little too much for my taste. What is his secret anyway? How does he seem to know people's problems and how to help them...(Charlie and his heroin, Walt being treated as more than just a child, and Boone with his Shannon problem, Hurley and the food(like his lotto winning)).? I never did like Mr. Know It All's :)

And then he told Hurley that he had to be in charge of the food. He told him he couldn't quit. Hurley could've walked away...passed the duty on to Kate or Rose. Sure it ended well with the food. I just didn't like him ordering Hurley like that.


I'm a big fan of Locke so I don't have a problem with him being in charge, but I also found it quite strange that Hurley listened to Locke's demands. I mean, the way Locke was demanding that Hurley deal with the food was kinda strange. Like you said, Hurley could have just walked away. I'm just puzzled too, why since Hurley really didn't want to deal with food, it would have been so hard for Locke to find a replacement. It should have been easy considering that Locke's job was to convince people to press a button. Would it have been that much harder to convince someone to deal with the food?

I am probaby going to get a lot of grief from this post because I know there are a lot of Locke fans out there but I need to speak my mind.



First of all, I would never give you grief for having your opinion....we all have our opinions. (The only time I get mad at posts are when people make fun of the actors...like on some other forums they make fun of Jorge's weight..it drives me nuts!)

As you could tell from my screen-name I may be just a tad biased when it comes to the subject of Locke and/or Hurley. ;) I don't mind Locke giving orders. The first season so many people listened to Jack. Kate always followed him around and now she broke out more on her own. I think that happened right around when Claire had her baby. Now with Locke, it is about him trying to let people believe and have faith in themselves. I think it was all a part of his therapy that he did pre-crash. And he sees their weaknesses and wants to help them. I don't think he means any harm in it, I just think he wants them to face their fears and know that they can do anything. He is a very smart man and I think that he just wants to spread to everyone what he learned. He may take it to the limit by "ordering" them around. I think it is just his way.

For Jack it was taking the leap of faith and for Hurley, I think he was trying to make him believe that he could be accepted even when he would be in charge of something and make him believe in himself that he is so likeable whether he was in charge of the food or not. ..... This is just my opinion, biased as it may be..LOL ;)

How come you're not complaining about how much Jack bosses everyone around?? "CapeMom" Im not for Locke or Jack bossing people around, but it just seems a little bias to me that you post about Locke only, when Jack has been doing this since the pilot.

I agree with Mr. James.... Jack seems to be the one acting like he is in charge giving most of the orders. Locke left the hatch when they blew it open because Jack wanted him to. Later on he took it upon himself to return. Locke feels strong about what he believes in just like everyone else. I guess it just comes down to the fact that there are leaders and there are followers....

Locke has a way of talking to people that makes it seem like he is right and thus they don't realize he is telling them what to do. Take how he manipulated Hurley this week. First, he put himself on the same level as Hurley by saying he had a bunch of jobs he didn't want to do in his life, but still did them. Then he compared his job of finding button pushers to Hurley's job of guarding the food ("Yeah, we're guards, grrr." Name that reference and win a prize) to make it seem like he didn't want to do his current job either. It was at this point he had Hurley's sympathy (and Hurley's an emotional guy) and could thus tell him he couldn't quit. And Hurley didn't quit, not because Locke was commanding him not to quit, because he thought Locke was telling him an objective truth.

I was wondering why Hurley didn't just tell Locke to take his clip board and stuff it. Hurley is just not strong enough, not to mention Locke was playing with a rather large gun when he told him he couldn't quit.

I think people are less inclined to like Locke bossing others around because, unlike Jack, he acts like he knows what is best for everyone and is almost smug about it sometimes. Jack will make it sound more like a request even if it is an order.

You feel you can tell Jack to pound salt while telling Locke off could result in something bad happening. :D

it was me, I put locke in charge

it was me, I put locke in charge

Careful, a statement like that could unite the Boonians with you as their target.

Didn't the Boonians disband last season?

.
I think people are less inclined to like Locke bossing others around because, unlike Jack, he acts like he knows what is best for everyone and is almost smug about it sometimes. Jack will make it sound more like a request even if it is an order.
:D


Are we watching the same show??? You couldnt be more wrong, there.

Didn't the Boonians disband last season?

Yeah, and communism is dead, your point?

My point?

I wanted to know if the 'Boonians' are still gathering to talk about the character.

What was your point?

My point?

I wanted to know if the 'Boonians' are still gathering to talk about the character.

What was your point?

Seeing as how I'm not a pinko, I wouldn't know.

(Why am I still continuing this Boonians are communists metaphor?)

I agree with Mr. James.... Jack seems to be the one acting like he is in charge giving most of the orders. Locke left the hatch when they blew it open because Jack wanted him to. Later on he took it upon himself to return. Locke feels strong about what he believes in just like everyone else. I guess it just comes down to the fact that there are leaders and there are followers....

I don't think Jack arbitrarily decided he was leader, he accepted the responsibility that was being asked of him.....There have been several references to him having been essentially "appointed". Not only because castaways kept coming to him to solve problems, but because dialogue has implied it; "I'm not a leader, I can't help them" "Yet everyone treats you like one", "A leader can't lead until he knows where he is going." ," Ppl are scared & upset, we need you to come back Jack." In E/MOF folks waited for him to give them direction. Even Locke himself asked Jack what to do in Orientation.

Re: Hurley I think Jack gave him a gift. Here ppl had been saying (a) Jack didn't delegate responsibility ( b) that he never listens to anyone's suggestions (although I can find many i.e's to the contrary) (c) that he's a control freak. He released total control to Hurley, had faith in his abilities, & when Jack didn't agree w/what he had decided to do with the food, he said OK, I put you in charge so good or bad I have to deal w/the consequences of your decision. A mark of good leader imo.

Here Jack gave Hurley a literal pat on the back which he so desperately needed & that Jack rarely gets himself. In turn, Hurley got more insight into the difficult position Jack is in having every day to risk ppl hating him because he has to make tough decisions.

In terms of growing a backbone and not pushing the button I think it took an incredible amount of courage for Jack to do it and here's why:

I don't think it was Locke's intent, but I got to thinking how almost humiliating? & painful it was for Jack to have to concede all of his beliefs in front of everyone by pushing it when anyone could have done it... I definitely feel like Locke knew if he got Jack on board it would be complete validation to the others that there is some possibility his beliefs were correct. Jack's stance changed when he heard Locke say "I can't do this alone, I don't want to." So I think Jack pushed it in part for Locke because he sees him in a paternal way despite their disagreements.Ultimately he was admitting he could be wrong.

Seeing as how I'm not a pinko, I wouldn't know.

(Why am I still continuing this Boonians are communists metaphor?)

Ummm... communists? Why are Boone fans communists?

You have confused me.

("Yeah, we're guards, grrr." Name that reference and win a prize)

Team America. Martin Sheen and Tim Robbins.

Sorry, couldn't resist. What's my prize?

Anyway, since last season, John sort of established a reputation of knowing more about the island than anybody else. In the words of Charlie, "if there's anyone I would put my faith in to save us all, it's John Locke." Or something to that effect. So I can see why some of the lostaways would be inclined to listen to John, no matter what island jargon he speaks in.

As far as Jack, he did say, "Everyone wants me to be the leader until I say something they don't like." Or something like that. I can't remember quotes that well. Everyone wanted him to lead. And I think he's done a good job. I don't see him as sort of a tyrant. There's some instances when he wouldn't decide on his own. He'd listen to others to help them make decisions. That's a good trait of a leader.

Jack put Hurely in charge of the food, not Locke. Locke just told him that he doesn't get to quit, in other words, he's got face his demons.

How come you're not complaining about how much Jack bosses everyone around?? "CapeMom" Im not for Locke or Jack bossing people around, but it just seems a little bias to me that you post about Locke only, when Jack has been doing this since the pilot.

Jack's orders don't bother me because he seems to have the survivors best interest at heart. Plus, he doesn't seem to enjoy being leader, or telling people what to do. He kind of acquired the role because he has skills and knowledge of keeping the human body alive. I think he felt pressured to become a leader; I think people automatically looked to him for answers.

On the other hand, I feel like Locke doesn't give his orders with the survivors best interests in mind. Instead, I feel like he does it to satisfy his own personal fascination, obsession, curiosity(or whatever you want to call it) with the island. He seems to be on a mission, and enjoying it very much. It is almost like he is playing a game called, "Here let me fix you"....Hurley, Walt, Charlie, Boone,etc. Let's not forget poor Boone. I feel like he knew that was going to happen. He encouraged him to go into the plane...and for what? I wish he would quit trying to fulfill everyone's 'destiny' and just worry about himself :)

There are natural leaders and natural followers. Nothing wrong with being either or.

All creation likes order; humans are no exception.

Jack, Locke and Sayid are leaders and will lead in their area of expertise,
when that happens, the leader will follow that leader in his or her
expertise. I think Rose is a leader, too, only she does it in a very
subtle way.

Hurley and Charlie are followers, although Hurley got a taste of being
a leader in the food espisode and it felt good to him. Often followers
resent leaders but in truth, the follower doesn't know how to lead
and is more inclined to be jealous of the leader, thus the resentment.
imo.

Kate showed her decision in a mature way, to go against Jack's decision
on not going back til morning, to the hatch. She didn't have an emotional
outburst she just calmly said she was going back. She could be a leader
or a follower according to the circumstances.

Locke pleaded with Jack to help him, saying he couldnt' do it alone; so
Jack accepted the plea and hit execute (which is a curious name for
a key- instead of "enter" it says "execute"- but that's another topic):biggrin:

Locke will lead and will follow, Jack will lead and will follow, Sayid will
lead and will follow, etc. when it is appropriate, without much protest.
Those who can only do one or the other will protest and not flow with
necessary and natural order of things.imo;)

[QUOTE=capemom77;546770]Jack's orders don't bother me because he seems to have the survivors best interest at heart. Plus, he doesn't seem to enjoy being leader, or telling people what to do. He kind of acquired the role because he has skills and knowledge of keeping the human body alive. I think he felt pressured to become a leader; I think people automatically looked to him for answers.

On the other hand, I feel like Locke doesn't give his orders with the survivors best interests in mind. Instead, I feel like he does it to satisfy his own personal fascination, obsession, curiosity(or whatever you want to call it) with the island. He seems to be on a mission, and enjoying it very much. QUOTE]

Good assessment.

On the other hand, I feel like Locke doesn't give his orders with the survivors best interests in mind.

I tend to disagree on this note - Locke wanted Jack's help because to me, Jack is more a man of science, and Locke wanted Jack to take that leap of faith with him. As far as Hurley is concerned, Jack was the one that appointed Hurley in charge of the food. Locke didn't want him to quit and did have his best interests in mind because he wanted Hurley to see what a leader he could be and he could still be likeable too. Hurley needed the confidence and I believe both Locke and Rose gave it to him.

And then he told Hurley that he had to be in charge of the food. He told him he couldn't quit. Hurley could've walked away...passed the duty on to Kate or Rose. Sure it ended well with the food. I just didn't like him ordering Hurley like that.

I really was hoping Hurley would tell Locke where to go when they had that exchange. Really, who decided Locke was 'Island God" who would tell everyone what to do when it came to the Hatch?

I like Locke as a character but wouldn't trust him myself and really wouldn't stand for him ordering me about if I were one of the group on the Island.

[QUOTE=capemom77;546770] On the other hand, I feel like Locke doesn't give his orders with the survivors best interests in mind. Instead, I feel like he does it to satisfy his own personal fascination, obsession, curiosity(or whatever you want to call it) with the island. He seems to be on a mission, and enjoying it very much.

I totally agree with this. A lot of people may not agree but that is the exact conclusion I have drawn from Locke's actions...he is all about himself and his obsessions...and if he by chance helps someone along the way, good enough for Locke.

I see Locke as all about the island too, BUT, he thinks they are all their together for a reason. I think he is the one person one the island seeing things from a big picture standpoint. Anything he does or asks others to do benefit either that specific individual or the group as a whole. He has an innate ability to see into others what they cannot see for themselves, and he can help them. Same thing with the island, he sees more than the other castaways.

I tend to disagree on this note - Locke wanted Jack's help because to me, Jack is more a man of science, and Locke wanted Jack to take that leap of faith with him. As far as Hurley is concerned, Jack was the one that appointed Hurley in charge of the food. Locke didn't want him to quit and did have his best interests in mind because he wanted Hurley to see what a leader he could be and he could still be likeable too. Hurley needed the confidence and I believe both Locke and Rose gave it to him.

Locke, Rose and Jack gave it to him. Don't forget, Jack was the one who gave him the responsibility and then encouraged him at the end to go through with his decision - and stood back and let Hurley be the "hero" ;)

I like Locke.... my big thing with him is that I don't think he understands the island as well as he (or anyone else) thinks he does. And that could be dangerous.

Jack's orders don't bother me because he seems to have the survivors best interest at heart. Plus, he doesn't seem to enjoy being leader, or telling people what to do. He kind of acquired the role because he has skills and knowledge of keeping the human body alive. I think he felt pressured to become a leader; I think people automatically looked to him for answers.

On the other hand, I feel like Locke doesn't give his orders with the survivors best interests in mind. Instead, I feel like he does it to satisfy his own personal fascination, obsession, curiosity(or whatever you want to call it) with the island. He seems to be on a mission, and enjoying it very much. It is almost like he is playing a game called, "Here let me fix you"....Hurley, Walt, Charlie, Boone,etc. Let's not forget poor Boone. I feel like he knew that was going to happen. He encouraged him to go into the plane...and for what? I wish he would quit trying to fulfill everyone's 'destiny' and just worry about himself :)

i came to the conclusion last season that Locke has a Messiah Complex... it's pretty obvious to me but i haven't heard anyone else mention it, you are closest to it so far. i do love the character because he is brilliantly acted, no doubt, but the character of John Locke has some deeeeep problems! i think he could go in any direction at this point... it would be scary to see him get too much power, that's for sure :)
as for Hurley giving in to Locke this time, i think it had at least a little to do with the fact that Hurley doesn't want to let anyone down, do anything that will make someone mad at him, even Locke... make sense? Hurley is another character i think is brilliantly acted. i wonder how long it will take for Jorge to get an emmy nomination!

ciao!:wavey:

Locke isn't in charge, Jack is. What made you think that?

1. Jack assigned the job to Hurely. Not Locke.

2. Locke only insistes he do the task he was assigned.

3. Jack gave the job to Hurely then told him he had to inventory it. Locke would more than likely have told Hurley (if he pointed this out) that it was Hurley's job and he should decide how he wanted to do it.

Why are we blaming Locke?

1. Jack assigned the job to Hurely. Not Locke.

2. Locke only insistes he do the task he was assigned.

3. Jack gave the job to Hurely then told him he had to inventory it. Locke would more than likely have told Hurley (if he pointed this out) that it was Hurley's job and he should decide how he wanted to do it.

Why are we blaming Locke?

Because I feel Jack is starting to get used to the fact that people look to him for answers and/or leadership. So he is rolling with it. I feel like it was a position that he involuntarily chose. He just kind of assumed it. I agree he is giving orders; but I feel that they are simply motivated by what he feels is in the best interest of the survivors.

On the other hand, I feel like Locke is the only one thinking 'out of the box'. I believe that deep down, everyone feels that there is something different about the island; however, Locke is enjoying it and seems to be eager to help everyone with their 'island experience'. My beef with Locke is: why does he feel like he has the right to direct everyone toward's what he believes is their destiny. Which leads me to another question....if Locke feels like they were all destined to be on this island, wouldn't they ultimately meet their destiny without any of his encouragement? Does he really need to tell Boone to check out the plane, or tell Hurley he can't quit food duty, or tell Jack he needs to type in numbers, etc.

That's why I blame Locke :)

Darn I wish Sayid, Kate & Rose would form a committee of three and take over.