So, when Jack and Sayid are under the hatch Sayid says his best guess for what's behind the wall is a Geothermal Generator that is the power source.

Geothermal Generators use naturally occuring steam vents (Just like Old Faithful) to produce energy. As far as I can tell, there is little to no dangers in using this form of energy, so what could have happened to make the Dharma people cover it up in cement?

In doing more reading on hydrothermal vents, I found that they do exhibit magnetic properties, which helps deep sea researchers locate potential dive sites. Could this vent have added electromagnetic properties? Dharma did say they specifically located that station to do research on the strong electormagnetic field in that area of the island.

In my research, I cannot figure out how the geothermal generator and the added magnetic fields go hand in hand though.

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

They did say that this section of the island had very strange electromagnetic properties.

That would make me think it's stronger than your typical geothermal vent, or for whatever reason has much different electromagnetic properties. Otherwise, why not let the scientists who already study those things take care of it? Something was peculiar enough about the electromagnetic properties there to construct an entire wing of a facility to study it (the Swan facility). Remember that was the purpose before the mindless button pushing protocol was instated.

On top of that Sayid mentioned that the only time he had seen everything covered up with that much concrete was Chernobyl, so that adds nuclear to the possibilities as well. Nuclear would explain the concrete, and a weird electromagnetic field would explain Jack's key moving...

Dunno, it's a good mystery, but I doubt we'll find out about it for a while.

;) OMG!!! A post about the actual content of the show!!!!

Thank goodness!!!!! (Sorry just feeling like we are watching Jerry Springer not Lost with all the Ana bashing and OMG an interracial marriage! posts)

One of the other threads talks about the constellations and the Dharma stations. Cygnus (the swan) is a major source of radio waves because of fast moving electromagnetic fields (I think - physics aren't my thing). Anyway my thoughts were that maybe it has something to do with that, it would also explain the concrete since it produces a lot of radiation and I would suppose heat.
I think it ISN'T a geothermal set up for the simple reason that that's what Sayid thought it was and that would be too easy. :p
OR if we are going with the 'it isn't an island' theory, then it could be vents from the power source, maybe like a nuclear sub.

Nuclear reactors require refueling about every 20 years I think. A geothermal power source would last a lot longer than that. That makes me think geothermal and less nuclear, but it doesn't explain the concrete.

I suppose nuclear is still possible, because they shut the whole thing down around 1980 when the Orientation video was copyrighted, and if they had just arrived there in the late 60s or 70s they may not have had to refuel the reactor more than once, if that...

;) OMG!!! A post about the actual content of the show!!!!

Thank goodness!!!!! (Sorry just feeling like we are watching Jerry Springer not Lost with all the Ana bashing and OMG an interracial marriage! posts)

That's probably why threads like this one don't do very well. I find people would rather bash people than actually put some thought into where the writers are going.

Should a thread like this be under speculation?

It's entirely possible that it is just a geothermal generator. The island is potentially volcanic in nature, so it stands to reason that they would tap into this unlimited natural resource to power the station. Considering Sayid mentions it, and Kate smelled sulfur, it makes sense. As to the concrete...I think Sayid's mentioning Chernobyl was just meant to tell us the concrete is used as shielding, not a referance to radioactivity. Conductive concrete is a special mixture of concrete and carbon fibers/ferrous materials that provides shielding against electromagnetic waves. I believe it was first engineered for constuction of bomb shelters to protect vital eletronic equipment from EMP weapons being developed by the USSR. Makes sense they would use it to shield the station from the strong electromagnetic source they are studying.

I don't think the concrete is there just because of the generator. I think there's more back there than that.

Dr. Candle said The Swan was originally a lab set up to study the electromagnetic properties of this sector of the island.
So far, we haven't seen a lab, just some computers and a living area. Where's the lab?

My guess is it's behind that wall with the generator.

As to the concrete...I think Sayid's mentioning Chernobyl was just meant to tell us the concrete is used as shielding, not a referance to radioactivity. Conductive concrete is a special mixture of concrete and carbon fibers/ferrous materials that provides shielding against electromagnetic waves. I believe it was first engineered for constuction of bomb shelters to protect vital eletronic equipment from EMP weapons being developed by the USSR. Makes sense they would use it to shield the station from the strong electromagnetic source they are studying.

If they were studying the electromagnetic forces behind the wall, would there be probes or other ways to take readings? I wonder if the concrete was pourded before or after the "Incident".

Logic would say AFTER because of Sayid's statement of Chermobyl, but maybe it was done before for the reason you stated. (Shield equipment)

I also wonder if they dug down to pour the concrete. I live in Canada, and we all have basements because we have to dig below the frost line so our houses don't shift in the spring thaw. Anyhow, I mention that because if they didn't dig down to pour the concrete, couldn't they dig under it?

I don't think the concrete is there just because of the generator. I think there's more back there than that.

Dr. Candle said The Swan was originally a lab set up to study the electromagnetic properties of this sector of the island.
So far, we haven't seen a lab, just some computers and a living area. Where's the lab?

My guess is it's behind that wall with the generator.

I meant that the generator isn't radioactive, it's geothermal. The concrete is there as electromagnetic shielding, probably for the entire complex not just the generator. The lab wouldn't be behind the concrete, as then the lab equipment wouldn't be shielded. I think what we've seen so far is part of or the remnants of the lab.

I also wonder if they dug down to pour the concrete. I live in Canada, and we all have basements because we have to dig below the frost line so our houses don't shift in the spring thaw. Anyhow, I mention that because if they didn't dig down to pour the concrete, couldn't they dig under it?

they dug down at least as deep as the station :) I doubt they would have been able to put concrete UNDER whatever is on the other side of the wall without lifting it up to begin with, so I guess it's possible they could dig under the wall. There is no telling how far the walls go down into the ground though, might be one hell of a dig.

they dug down at least as deep as the station :) I doubt they would have been able to put concrete UNDER whatever is on the other side of the wall without lifting it up to begin with, so I guess it's possible they could dig under the wall. There is no telling how far the walls go down into the ground though, might be one hell of a dig.

You're probably right, it would be a hell of a dig, and take a lot of time. But time is the one thing the Lostaways have. I know I'd be curious enough to dig under the wall. It would help to provide more answers as to why they're entering the code every 108 minutes.

Side note - Desmond mentioned that his fillings hurt whenever he went near that wall. Wouldn't Jack and Sayid have fillings? I'm meticulous with my teeth and I have a filling. You'd think that being right there, next to the wall would make their teeth hurt as well.

I meant that the generator isn't radioactive, it's geothermal. The concrete is there as electromagnetic shielding, probably for the entire complex not just the generator. The lab wouldn't be behind the concrete, as then the lab equipment wouldn't be shielded. I think what we've seen so far is part of or the remnants of the lab.

I understand.
I'm not sure the lab ever was shielded. It's possible the lab and the generator were in a non-shielded area, with a shielded area for living quarters.
The lab might have been required to be close to the source of the magnetism and impossible to shield. The lab might not have had equipment that required shielding. Workbenches, titanium based tools, etc, could have been used to allow a non-shielded working environment.
The generator could have been constructed from materials that were not affected by the source of the magnetism as well.

It's possible that in this area, computers and video cameras would not work properly, and the mirror system was used to monitor the equipment in that section of the station.

After The Incident, the concrete may have been poured to isolate the living quarters from the source of the magnetism, and by association the lab and the generator were isolated as well.

Conductive concrete is a special mixture of concrete and carbon fibers/ferrous materials that provides shielding against electromagnetic waves. I believe it was first engineered for constuction of bomb shelters to protect vital eletronic equipment from EMP weapons being developed by the USSR. Makes sense they would use it to shield the station from the strong electromagnetic source they are studying.

I was not aware of that. Very cool!! Definitely makes the nuclear idea look like a red herring.

If it's as thick as Sayid thinks it is, then the EM force behind that wall must be insanely powerful. That would explain why they wanted to study it. I wonder what could cause a geothermal vent to have a field so strong?

On this show, there could be a giant robot behind all that concrete, or even a calvin just sitting there reading a book (one that needs a sales boost to be sure) and after they bust through it he'll just smile and say "Hey, what took ya so long?"

Sayid's guess of a geothermal generator conflicts with his chernobyl comment. The quarantine could be because of radiation sickness.

Njc----------------

I wonder what could cause a geothermal vent to have a field so strong?

Exactly what I was thinking when I started this thread!!

Everything I've read says there is magnitism associated with geothermal vents, but nothing as strong as what must be behind that wall. I wonder if it was something naturally occuring or if Dharma did something to the field - hence "The Incident"?

To me it sounded like Sayids reference to Chernobyl was to describe how the concrete had been poured all over a structure, in what looked like a hurry. Not that he was assuming there was something radioactive behind it.

Does anyone know if volcanic flows generate magnetic fields? Perhaps the island has a unusual volcanic system with lava flows close to the surface, or something like that?

I understand.
I'm not sure the lab ever was shielded. It's possible the lab and the generator were in a non-shielded area, with a shielded area for living quarters.
The lab might have been required to be close to the source of the magnetism and impossible to shield. The lab might not have had equipment that required shielding. Workbenches, titanium based tools, etc, could have been used to allow a non-shielded working environment.
The generator could have been constructed from materials that were not affected by the source of the magnetism as well.

It's possible that in this area, computers and video cameras would not work properly, and the mirror system was used to monitor the equipment in that section of the station.

After The Incident, the concrete may have been poured to isolate the living quarters from the source of the magnetism, and by association the lab and the generator were isolated as well.

You may be correct about the lab and the generator. I think the concrete was there originally though, alot of the things in the living quarters would've needed to be shielded to begin with. It's one hell of a construction job to put in that much concrete, doesn't make sense that they'd put all that concrete in after the incident and not have updated everything else in the station when they were done. The broken section of the wall might have to do with the incident though. It looks like it was being repaired, not like someone was trying to tunnel into it.

.... I think the concrete was there originally though, ....

The concrete was there, plugging up the door in the hallway in the original construction of The Swan, pre-Incident?

The concrete was there, plugging up the door in the hallway in the original construction of The Swan, pre-Incident?

No, the overall concrete structure was pre-incident. The hallway with the concrete buckets looks like a repair job, possible needed becase of the incident?

No, the overall concrete structure was pre-incident. The hallway with the concrete buckets looks like a repair job, possible needed becase of the incident?

Agreed.
I think they built most of the Swan out of A Lot of concrete to shield the living quarters from whatever is behind the area that is plugged up now.

I didn't get the impression that the area under the floor was new concrete though. I'd have to re-watch those scenes again to be sure. I thought that area was fairly well contained at its initial construction, and the entrance was plugged at a later date.

The plugged entrance off the main hallway looked really sloppy, and the under-floor area (we need a cool name for that section) didn't appear to have any plugged sections like that.

Something just occured to me. In the orientation film, Dr Candle says "Station 3 was originally constructed as a laboratory where scientists could work to understand the unique electromagnetic fluctuations emanating from this sector of the island."

What I find strange is the term "Electromagnetic Fluctuations". Electromagnets are created when an electrical current is passed through a coiled wire. We have concluded there is a power source there (Geothermal generator?) so that could create an electromagnetic field. But why would there be fluctuations?

When I first watched the Orientation film strip, I assumed the fluctuations were a natural occurance on the island, but the term ELECTROmagnet makes me think the station was created to examine why the generator was creating fluctuations, not the island itself.

It's my impression that the entire concrete job is post-incident. This sort of stems from my belief that all hatches were connected through a central area at one point.

I would say they put the buckets there to make it look like someone was sealing it off, rather than as an indicator of how the whole job was done. Otherwise when Jack first walked by it we would have thought nothing of it; it would have simply been a concrete wall like the other walls. Putting the buckets there makes it obvious that something WAS back there, and has been blocked off.

Just my hunch on it.

When I first watched the Orientation film strip, I assumed the fluctuations were a natural occurance on the island, but the term ELECTROmagnet makes me think the station was created to examine why the generator was creating fluctuations, not the island itself.

I'm not a physics expert, but don't ALL electric fields have magnetic properties? I thought that running it through a coiled wire simply caused it to express itself in a more powerful way.

Basically I am not sure if the term Electromagnetic necessarily implies that they are talking about a generator, and that they could simply have been talking about magnetic properties of an electric field that is being generated by whatever...

I hope someone with a better knowledge of science can help us clear this up.

teh patch job in the dorrway was definitely after construction... now as for the rest of the concrete... welll the jury is still out on that... as for the fillings normal fillings shouldnt be bothered by magnatism (look at this thread i started: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=23039 )

I am wondering if the concrete wall will be this season's hatch... soemthing to talk about all summer... man i hate comercials and season breaks... haha

Basically I am not sure if the term Electromagnetic necessarily implies that they are talking about a generator, and that they could simply have been talking about magnetic properties of an electric field that is being generated by whatever...

I hope someone with a better knowledge of science can help us clear this up.

I'm not a science whiz, what would create an electric field naturally? Don't you have to use turbines and stuff to create electricity?

What I find strange is the term "Electromagnetic Fluctuations". Electromagnets are created when an electrical current is passed through a coiled wire. We have concluded there is a power source there (Geothermal generator?) so that could create an electromagnetic field. But why would there be fluctuations?

When I first watched the Orientation film strip, I assumed the fluctuations were a natural occurance on the island, but the term ELECTROmagnet makes me think the station was created to examine why the generator was creating fluctuations, not the island itself.

I'm not sure that he's speaking about the fluctuations inside the geothermal power plants. Generators of this type are not uncommon, so studying them on a remote island like this seems a bit odd to me.
I would think that the generator was there to power the island's equipment and labs, one of which would study the electromagnetic fluctuations of the island.


Electromagnets are created when an electrical current is passed through a coiled wire.
That's one source.
Plasma is another source.
Apparently magma chambers can create electromagnetic fields as well.

My take on the situation was that there was a naturally occurring magnetic source related to the volcanic nature of the island.
The Swan was constructed in such a way as to provide unprotected laboratory access to the source of this anomaly, but provided shielding to the living quarters. I imagine this was done in a similar fashion to X-Ray rooms in hospitals. The walls are shielded, but the doors are not.
There could have been some sort of dangerous field spewing into the Swan's main hallway continuously, but unless you were standing in the previously unblocked hallway, you wouldn't have a problem.
After The Incident, some kind of quick patch job was done to plug up the hallway, the only opening into the hazardous part of The Swan, and no one had to worry about dangerous exposure levels.


I think the power plant isn't very close by. A power plant large enough to run 6 stations (assuming they don't all have their own) would need to be Big. It would be Loud. They'd hear it in The Swan.
Since you'd have to drill down about 5000 feet to get to the Hot water you'd need to make Geothermal power work really well, it would be a pain to make 6 power plants, instead of one large one.
I'm guessing the blocked off tunnel leads to a larger network of tunnels, leading to a generator room relatively far away from each of the stations.

Apparently magma chambers can create electromagnetic fields as well.

My take on the situation was that there was a naturally occurring magnetic source related to the volcanic nature of the island.

I think the power plant isn't very close by. A power plant large enough to run 6 stations (assuming they don't all have their own) would need to be Big. It would be Loud. They'd hear it in The Swan.
Since you'd have to drill down about 5000 feet to get to the Hot water you'd need to make Geothermal power work really well, it would be a pain to make 6 power plants, instead of one large one.
I'm guessing the blocked off tunnel leads to a larger network of tunnels, leading to a generator room relatively far away from each of the stations.

Interesting that Magma can create electromagnetic fields... Opens more possibilities.

Do you always have to drill to get to the hot water to get the geothermal generator to work properly? What about vents that open on the surface, like old faithful? Would those be easy to tap into?

How much power do you think the station really has?

I post these questions to everybody in general, not just Mondoz, who I happend to have quoted here.

After The Incident, some kind of quick patch job was done to plug up the hallway, the only opening into the hazardous part of The Swan, and no one had to worry about dangerous exposure levels.

I'm guessing the blocked off tunnel leads to a larger network of tunnels, leading to a generator room relatively far away from each of the stations.

this is what I was thinking as well. It seems to me that the bunker that the
'tailers' are living in is a part of the whole Island Complex. it doesn't seem
to be part of the SWAN, since the symbol is an arrow, not a swan.

My first thought during the ep was that the bunkers used to all be connected.

Then, the incident changed everything.

I wonder what the incident could have been though? any thoughts on that?

...

Then, the incident changed everything.

I wonder what the incident could have been though? any thoughts on that?
Personally, I think that if you take all the areas of research that were mentioned in the film, mix in the possibilities of studies that are on the Hanso website, and attempt to put them all on one island in some combination or another, you're just asking for trouble.

Hanso made his money from weapons. I think he (if he really was a real person) only funded this operation so that he could get new weapon technology out of this. Weapons research is not a safe sort of proposition. Something will go wrong sooner or later. You're bound to end up with psycho island natives, rabid polar bears, crazy weather, clouds of smoke that grab crazed bald guys, etc...

One experiment went out of control. This started a chain reaction that caused all the other experiments to go out of control, and the whole island went bezerk.
Perhaps The Swan was the only station left that wasn't destroyed or ransacked by crazy scientists/The Others/etc... The Dharma guys walled off the access into the magma tunnels, made the film, set up the computers, and stuffed a few guys inside with some food.

Your mileage may vary.

Interesting that Magma can create electromagnetic fields... Opens more possibilities.

Do you always have to drill to get to the hot water to get the geothermal generator to work properly? What about vents that open on the surface, like old faithful? Would those be easy to tap into?

How much power do you think the station really has?

I post these questions to everybody in general, not just Mondoz, who I happend to have quoted here.

I reply to everybody in general, not just to SMoK9977, who I happened to have quoted here. ;)

In Hawaii, they use Geothermal powerplants, and have pipes going down as far as 6,000 feet. Down there, the water is hot enough to become steam, which essentially turns the generators into natural steam power plants.
I'm sure you could use natural steam vents & gysers as your source for steam, if there were any available. We haven't seen any on the island, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

Some companies build modular geothermal power plants in sizes that range in output of hundreds of kilowatts to 2-3 megawatts.
Depending on the kinds of equipment they have in the other labs, (who knows what they might have) but multiple MW plants are intended to provide power to remote areas without easy access to other forms of energy. One of those might do the trick here.
By comparison, your house probably uses about 15,000 watt-hours per day.

I reply to everybody in general, not just to SMoK9977, who I happened to have quoted here. ;) .

Thanks Mondoz. I only mentioned that because I quoted something somebody said once before that made me think of some more questions and the person felt I was personally asking them something that they didn't have the answer to. I figured I'd cover myself incase you felt I was pressing you too for answers.

Anyhow, that's why I love this show, it really makes you think. I've learned more about electricity, magnets, chernobyl, genetics... etc since I started watching this show than I did in school. Funny how when you're curious about something, it doesn't seem like learning.

Thanks Mondoz. I only mentioned that because I quoted something somebody said once before that made me think of some more questions and the person felt I was personally asking them something that they didn't have the answer to. I figured I'd cover myself incase you felt I was pressing you too for answers.

No need to explain. I just can't resist the chance to make a bad joke, or at least make a smart-*** comment. :D

No need to explain. I just can't resist the chance to make a bad joke, or at least make a smart-*** comment. :D

It's funny, in the "Real World" I'm totally the same way, but I find here that an innocent joke/comment made here can be blown out of proportion very quickly. I like being able to put our collective heads together and I wouldn't want to tick someobdy off and not be able to waste my days reading endless threads.

So you seem to know alot about power generators and such, do you have any thories as to how they would be supplying power to different locations from one main generator? Seems like an interconnected tunnel might be the way to go since there are no wires visible on the surface.

It's funny, in the "Real World" I'm totally the same way, but I find here that an innocent joke/comment made here can be blown out of proportion very quickly. I like being able to put our collective heads together and I wouldn't want to tick someobdy off and not be able to waste my days reading endless threads. Heh. Yep. I've seen that happen a lot too. Liberal use of ;) and :D and :eek:s help a lot to avert meltdowns. :D


So you seem to know alot about power generators and such, do you have any thories as to how they would be supplying power to different locations from one main generator? Seems like an interconnected tunnel might be the way to go since there are no wires visible on the surface.
I'm with you on the interconnected tunnel idea.
Though buried wires might be anywhere.

However...
One theory I've seen mentioned elsewhere on this board was that another figure who was interested in a number of similar subjects as Hanso was Nicola Tesla.
He was an inventor and rival of Edison. They had differing viewpoints on electricity distribution. Edison wanted to use DC current, while Tesla was convinced AC was the way to go. AC could use long thin wires for distribution, unlike the thick wires required for DC power. DC wires can't be run for very long distances without requiring power stations to essentially re-transmit the power. AC doesn't require this.
Edison finally was able to squash Tesla's 'crazy' ideas; his DC power distributions 'won', and we use DC power distribution in the US today.
However... Tesla also envisioned power distribution without wires... He wanted electricity jumping about from station to station without having to mess with laying or hanging ugly wires everywhere.



So, techno-babble aside, could the electromagnetism's research station's goal have been to realize Tesla's vision of wireless power distribution? Is this how the stations (and perhaps other *things) receive their power?

*If I were to design a cloud of black smoke that would protect my weapons design compound, I think wireless power distribution would be a wonderful way to run the thing.

Also, if the wire Sayid found was a power line, it could have been an AC line carrying a lot more power than a DC line could have carried at that size... though this fact has nothing to do with Tesla. Not directly, anyway.

Nuclear reactors require refueling about every 20 years I think. A geothermal power source would last a lot longer than that. That makes me think geothermal and less nuclear, but it doesn't explain the concrete.

I suppose nuclear is still possible, because they shut the whole thing down around 1980 when the Orientation video was copyrighted, and if they had just arrived there in the late 60s or 70s they may not have had to refuel the reactor more than once, if that...

You don't build a nuclear plant near a volcano. It's just not smart. Look around California, at all the half built nuke plants.

And, Geothermal plants can last for decades, or centuries. The Lardarello field in Italy has been in operation since 1913. Only problem is that there are also corrosive compounds in the gases from the vents. After a while, pipes and other parts will have to be replaced. Many places around the world use geothermal plants. There's even one not far away from where the show's filmed.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/faqs.html

A connection between electricity and magnetism was discovered (accidentally) by Orsted over 100 years ago, who noticed that a compass needle is deflected when brought into the vicinity of a current carrying wire. Thus, currents induce in their vicinity magnetic fields. An electromagnet is simply a coil of wires which, when a current is passed through, generate a magnetic field.

Another example of this effect at work is in an atom, - since an electron is a charge which moves about the nucleus, in effect it forms a current loop, and hence a magnetic field may be associated with an individual atom. It is this basic property which is believed to be the origin of the magnetic properties of various types of materials found in nature.

http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node90.html

I may need to do some Google reasearch on this, but haven't there been year old studies (no idea how verifiable they were though) about the occurance of suicides and cancer after prolonged exposure to electro-magnetic fields.

I distinctly remember suicide being mentioned once which causes me to wonder if it might also cause dementia after prolonged periods of exposure. Any thoughts?

I may need to do some Google reasearch on this, but haven't there been year old studies (no idea how verifiable they were though) about the occurance of suicides and cancer after prolonged exposure to electro-magnetic fields.

I distinctly remember suicide being mentioned once which causes me to wonder if it might also cause dementia after prolonged periods of exposure. Any thoughts?


REALLY good thought - there have been several mentions of cancer and mental illness in the series.
Sawyer mentioned a family member had a brain tumor when Jack was asking him about his headaches, Claires jerk boyfriend's uncle or someone had cancer, Kate's mother and I am thinking there were a few more. Susan had something wrong with her blood - may be some sort of blood related cancer(?).

The dementia might explain the 'sickness' considering how Danielle is a little loopy, her husband or whatever tried to shoot her, the Others are definitely nuts and if Lenny was in the hatch typing in the numbers, would explain his current condition - not to mention Locke's mother spent time in the same mental hospital - and so did Hurley. Oh, and Lenny's partner Sam Toomey shot himself.

There are a lot of missing parents - so maybe cancer and/or dementia(suicide) is part of the reason for that.

And suicide was my new theory about Shannon - that she gets the 'sickness' and goes nuts (a monster - like the Others) and kills herself

There are many geothermal generators around the world but most are in colder climates where hot springs are common. However, on looking at the map I was surprised to see that there is a cluster of geothermal generators in the northern part of New Zealand - which is off the East coast of Australia.
http://geothermal.marin.org/GEOpresentation/sld069.htm

Could this be where our castaways are???

And suicide was my new theory about Shannon - that she gets the 'sickness' and goes nuts (a monster - like the Others) and kills herself

I found it odd that they mentioned - after they named Shannon as the one to be killed - they still kept her name among the murderers. Which to me indicated that suicide could be a possibility. Perhaps it's not the actual killing that makes the killer a monster, but what they do right before the murder.

Why do I have to wait to find all this out? ARGH!

Okay, did a little more Google research. I remembered electromagnetic fields being mentioned in different books on the paranormal I've read over the years and I went online and found this:

Electromagnetic Field
A field propagated by a combination of electric and magnetic energy which radiates from radio and light waves to gamma and cosmic rays. It is believed that when spirits manifest, they create an electromagnetic field. Also known as an EMF.

From here: http://www.thesupernaturalworld.co.uk/index.php?code=02&file=glossary.php&letter=e&title=Glossary&cat=glossary

Just thought it was interesting and I'd throw it in the pot.

Seems like an interconnected tunnel might be the way to go since there are no wires visible on the surface.
You are forgetting the wire that Sayid found on the beach.....
Perhaps that wire is supporting (or was supporting) an underwater research station with electricity?

Rather strangley, I found this artic (http://demining.jrc.it/aris/events/mine99/program/P117-120/BORYSSEN.htm)le on detecting landmines, which talks a little about natural electromagnetic radiation being generated by "numerous geophysical processes in the Earth interior".

On a note about geothermal generator, I suspect that drilling down with pipes as in the Hawaii example is more controllable than trying to harness something like Old Faithful. I know I'd be happier if the local plant was just harnessing steam being generated in a vent way underground rather than trying to harness the power of an erupting geyser :)

EDIT http://www.southampton.gov.uk/images/Southampton%20Case%20Study_tcm9-100054.pdf some info on what used to be my local geothermal energy plant (before I moved).

You are forgetting the wire that Sayid found on the beach.....
Perhaps that wire is supporting (or was supporting) an underwater research station with electricity?

He didn't seem that wary of picking it up, so I don't think it was electrical cabling.

Not to bog everyone down in a science/physics lesson, I have an idea about the electromagnetics in particular. Perhaps this island is an exceptionally strong naturally occuring hotspot for electromagnetics. The idea is much the same in the area of the Bermuda Triangle.

We begin with atoms, all in the known universe are the exact same in makeup-protons, electrons and neutrons, except hydrogen which has no neutron. The structure of the atom is energy in a confined space between revolving charged particles-the space between atoms is charged with electromagnetic energy. Therefore all matter is not only mostly energy, but it is mostly space. It is the same with everything. If everything is made up of atoms, then why can't we pass through stone walls? Because the atoms in the stone are in "tune" with each other, the same frequency if you will, that makes up stone. Our bodies are of a different "tune", or frequency. What if, with the use of electromagnetics, those frequencies could be changed? So how does this relate to this show? To render items invisible, transmute them from one substance to another, make objects levitate, burn white hot but not melt surrounding flammable material, or make things “cold melt,” fuse, or disappear, can only be because the atoms of that particular substance and the particular frequency each one has, was changed, while the other substances, being on a different frequency (due to the different number of charged particles therein) remained the same.

If one of the experiments on the island involves electromagnetics, as it appears, it would seem quite feasible that perhaps the scientists and freethinkers and so forth may have been trying to discover a way to manipulate time, a warp, a vortex kinesis of sorts. For whatever reason, it seems someone lost control. I know, that sounds crazy, but, through electromagnetics, in theory, it could happen.

By all accounts, everyone on the plane should have died in the crash. Perhaps the island's natural electromagnetic properties played a significant role in the passenger's survival. Not neccesarrily in bringing the plane down mind you, but in the passengers survival after the crash. It could very well be another probability of an electromagnetic anomaly.

Just a passing thought

great theories guys, jeep them coming. when Kate mentioned the sulfir smell i did not think geothermal volcanic vent, i thought chemical containment shower. sulfuric acid can dissolve concrete.

great theories guys, jeep them coming. when Kate mentioned the sulfir smell i did not think geothermal volcanic vent, i thought chemical containment shower. sulfuric acid can dissolve concrete.

I assumed the sulfer smell was because the water had been sitting for a long time. Makes me think that the scene at the begining of MOSMOF where we see somebody (I'm not convinced it was Desmond) taking a shower happened a long time before our group found the hatch.

Does anybody have more info on electromagnetism and volcanic flows? It would make sense the island was formed by volcanic erruptions, so maybe there is a lava flow that is contributing to the electromagnetic fields.

**POP - head explodes, attempting to recover brain from floor....**
Interesting info arias, you are right, it would certainly explain a lot about what we have seen on the show.
So to put all our thougts together a little, it could be that our 'Island' is a naturally occuring electromagnetic hotspot which Dharma was studying for all the freaky things they might be able to do with it (time travel?, paranormal stuff?, other Dharma initiatives) but possibly there are some bad side effects (cancer, dementia) either from just being around it too long or from an *incident*.

Something with the hotspot creates heat and smells of sulphur.

Just a slight aside, there is a thread in EHH that talks about certain constellations and the Dharma stations. Desmond's swan hatch = Cygnus the swan.
The distinguishing characteristic about Cygnus is that it is a powerful radio wave source due to electromagnetic activity.

**POP - head explodes, attempting to recover brain from floor....**
Interesting info arias, you are right, it would certainly explain a lot about what we have seen on the show.
So to put all our thougts together a little, it could be that our 'Island' is a naturally occuring electromagnetic hotspot which Dharma was studying for all the freaky things they might be able to do with it (time travel?, paranormal stuff?, other Dharma initiatives) but possibly there are some bad side effects (cancer, dementia) either from just being around it too long or from an *incident*.



I don't think all of the side effects are bad-John Locke regained the use of his legs. Although, we do not know what type of accident Locke had, nor do we know the extent of his injury. If he had one at all. A person can talk themselves into paralysis as well.

I can't wait to see how this show unfolds over time. Very unique characters and storyline.......I think Dharma is not only studying the natural electromagnetic properties of the island, but are also trying to manipulate and change it's frequencies ;)

I don't think all of the side effects are bad-John Locke regained the use of his legs. Although, we do not know what type of accident Locke had, nor do we know the extent of his injury. If he had one at all. A person can talk themselves into paralysis as well.

I can't wait to see how this show unfolds over time. Very unique characters and storyline.......


True, and interestingly it was when he was standing over the hatch with Boone that he temporaily lost the use of his legs - although they seem fine now despite being in the hatch. If somesort of electromagnetic field 'cured' Locke's legs, then I wonder A LOT about Sarah. I am sure that whatever cured Locke cured her -- and she wasn't on the island (not at the time she was in the accident anyway)

Hmmm - just thinking .

A side question away from the electromagneticism and geothermo questions to the actual concrete itself.

I know this might be a dumb question and I have asked it elsewhere..but how did Sayid know how thick the concrete was just by 'looking' at it?

I could stare at a slab of concrete all day long and if I saw only one part of it I don't think I could guesstimate how 'thick' it was.

Enlighten me...

A side question away from the electromagneticism and geothermo questions to the actual concrete itself.

I know this might be a dumb question and I have asked it elsewhere..but how did Sayid know how thick the concrete was just by 'looking' at it?

I could stare at a slab of concrete all day long and if I saw only one part of it I don't think I could guesstimate how 'thick' it was.

Enlighten me...

One of Sayid's many Republican Guard skills may have been some form of infiltration.
One aspect of this might involve evaluating barrier thickness. Sayid was using a handmade pickax to bang on the plugged up opening. The vibrations and sounds given off by striking such a blockage might tell an experienced demolitions expert much more than it would tell the casual observer.

In other words: Someone trained to get into sealed areas by whatever means necessary might know a thing or two about evaluating the barriers they're faced with. :)

A side question away from the electromagneticism and geothermo questions to the actual concrete itself.

I know this might be a dumb question and I have asked it elsewhere..but how did Sayid know how thick the concrete was just by 'looking' at it?

I could stare at a slab of concrete all day long and if I saw only one part of it I don't think I could guesstimate how 'thick' it was.

Enlighten me...

I have to admit, I thought the same thing. If the concrete is as thick as he estimates, how much sound reverberation would he get by banging it with a piece of titainium?

Nothing geothermal can generate the types of magnetic field required to levitate a key (presumably not brass) through concrete, or even a sheet of paper for that matter. If this is a defining clue, then we need to focus on what could create the field. Such fields, other than ones made for purely local experimentation could, I think, only come from superconducting magnets as used in a linear accelerator, and those magnets need to be supercooled to something like liquid nitrogen, which in turn implies a lot of complex equipment and power source. Certainly geothermal energy could be the primary power source (feeding steam generators for example), but by itself it doesn't explain the magnetic issue and if there is so much other equipment around somewhere, then it would be less complicated to suppose a nuclear reactor than all the plumbing associated with geothermal.

So, perhaps there is a linear accelerator in there, powered by a nuclear plant? Designed to do what (until it went wrong)? Shoot down satelites? Airplanes?

Nothing geothermal can generate the types of magnetic field required to levitate a key (presumably not brass) through concrete, or even a sheet of paper for that matter. If this is a defining clue, then we need to focus on what could create the field. Such fields, other than ones made for purely local experimentation could, I think, only come from superconducting magnets as used in a linear accelerator, and those magnets need to be supercooled to something like liquid nitrogen, which in turn implies a lot of complex equipment and power source. Certainly geothermal energy could be the primary power source (feeding steam generators for example), but by itself it doesn't explain the magnetic issue and if there is so much other equipment around somewhere, then it would be less complicated to suppose a nuclear reactor than all the plumbing associated with geothermal.

So, perhaps there is a linear accelerator in there, powered by a nuclear plant? Designed to do what (until it went wrong)? Shoot down satelites? Airplanes?

I think it's been theorised that a geothermal generator was built to power the station, which was built to study the electromagnetic properties inherent on the island. Not that a geothermal generator was the source of the electromagnetic field. (at least that's my take on the whole thing)