The Bad News: I haven’t even come close to working out the details of this theory, but, hopefully Others (sorry, couldn’t help myself) will help.

The Good News: If this theory is correct, Lost will actually get even better than it is now.

Parts of this theory have been discussed before, but not quite like this (at least to my knowledge). (I have actually not even seen all of Season 1 yet; I am up to Ep. 18). As I started going through Season 1 a few weeks ago, I began to notice how some flashbacks contained ‘things’ related to other Lostaways, things that had not been mentioned (at least verbally). For instance, I just saw the episode where Sawyer meets Jack’s dad in the bar. This is only one of many ‘coincidental’ things that happen. So, I thought, as I’m sure every one else here has, how is this possible? Well, either the flashbacks are completely real, partially real, or not real at all.

If they are not real at all, then what is the point watching the show. How could anyone draw any conclusions from completely false information? If this is the case, I won’t be watching very long.

So, what if the flashbacks are completely real? Sorry, that’s too much of a coincidence. The only explanation would be that someone or something brought these individuals together for some sort of experiment or wild virtual reality Matrix-like game. Thanks, but no thanks. Not interested. Don’t get me wrong, The Matrix is an awesome movie, but it’s over in a few hours. I can’t afford to spend a few years and countless hours on message boards to be told at the end it was some sort of a game.

Well, the only thing left would be if the flashbacks were partially real. But then how would Sawyer have ‘coincidentally’ met Jack’s dad, and heard the same Red Sox comment they both made. Maybe Sawyer was in the bar, but met someone else, not Jack’s dad. Maybe that person never really made the Red Sox comment. But how would Sawyer know what Jack’s dad looks like, or about that Red Sox saying? Could Sawyer have somehow read Jack’s mind, or thought what Jack was thinking? Like a psychic? But that would mean everyone on the island is psychic. Not to offend anyone here, but I don’t believe in psychic abilities. At this point I am actually getting happy. I’m thinking of all the things I can get done instead of watching Lost. Unless there is something close to a scientific explanation, I’m out.

It was at this point all the talk was going on about electromagnetism experiments and such. So in one last effort I tried searching for ‘mind reading’, ‘mind control’ and ‘electromagnetism’. And low and behold there are scientific theories (if you can believe what you read on the internet) that state that one person’s thoughts can be ‘read’ and transferred to another person using (you guessed it) an electromagnetic field, or radio waves, etc. (Do a search on HAARP, Synthetic Telepathy, SSSS, RHIC, etc).

So what. So, there could be some (albeit far fetched) scientific explanation how all these people WITHIN this electromagnetic field (or whatever) could be seeing, thinking, feeling what each other is seeing, thinking, or feeling. Then it hit me. Let’s say I’m Walt. 10 years old, and (rightfully) a little scared. I look into the jungle next to the beach at night and I see the trees start to move (wind or whatever) and I let my mind get away from me, and I think I see a monster crashing through the trees. Poor me, right? Well, poor everyone else too, because they’re in this ‘field’ and so now they see the monster too!

So then I think, wow, that could explain a lot. But then take it one step further. What if I think (faith) that my face is blue. Wouldn’t everyone else think and SEE my face as blue? I think so.

So, here it is. I think that the characters we see (as viewers) are what everyone on the island THINKS they look like. Each person appears the way they want to appear for one reason or another, but it is not who they really are. I will throw out one idea to see what people here think:

Boone: Why couldn’t Boone do CPR (correctly)? He apparently wasn’t tilting Rose’s head back far enough. Or why couldn’t he save the woman drowning? He says he was a lifeguard. Even Jack, who didn’t profess to be a lifeguard, was able to save Boone. I think the answer is that Boone really only has one arm. This could explain all the references to one-armed people. Think about it. It really starts to make sense. He probably really would want to have 2 arms (I know I am quite attached to mine). If he believes (faith) that he has 2, then wouldn’t everyone else believe that he has 2? But he still wouldn’t be able to do CPR, or save the woman.

I've come up with some really interesting ideas on all the Lostaways, but I'm curious what others here think.

im interested...go on though...explain the other ones...

Let them fly...very interesting theory...

Well, if I happen to be correct, I don't want to ruin the fun for other people who want to look for clues.

But, I'll throw out another since you asked.

Hurley -

It seemed strange to me that Charlie would make a comment that Hurley didn't appear to be losing weight after X number of days. Why would you put that into a script unless it is a clue. Also, when he goes in search of Danielle (I just saw that episode last night) he steps on a trap which will swing a giant ball of sharp branches at him as soon as he steps off. Jack, Charlie, (and I forget who else was there) all yell something like, "Don't move!". And Hurley says, "No, I can do it, I'm nimble". Sure, and I look like Brad Pitt. And then, here's the kicker, he crosses the rope bridge without breaking it, yet Charlie falls through. Seems strange right? Well, what if "Hurley" is really not as big as he appears. What if he is actually his SKINNY friend (played by DJ Qualls). It would explain the weird statements above. So, maybe it was DJ Qualls character on the plane, and he wishes it was him who won the lottery. So, when the plane crashes, he assumes Hurley's identity.

I'm going out on a limb with the last part, but there seem to be a lot of clues that Hurley is really not as big as he appears. This would add a whole new dimension to an already great show. And might explain why this forum places such a great emphasis on the character forums (as opposed to the theory forums, like most others). I think this show is really about who the Lostaways really are. The more time that goes by, the more their true identities are becoming lost.

You make some very interesting points. I would like to hear your theories on the other Lostaways! Good work.

i like it. and going by that, it explains why locke isn't in a wheelchair anymore. or at least he doesn't appear to be.

interesting theory...but if they saw themselves the way they wanted to be how do they do the things they do eg Locke climbing through the jungle and hunting boar if he really is in a wheelchair ? :)

Yeah! Finally a theory I can get on board for... Take the case of Charlie. Before the flight he is this narraccist (sp?)wrestling with a one-night stand for the last of his herion. Now, he's "clean" and becoming a nurturer. But, the question I have is are they all on the road to self-actualization? I guess "time" will tell.

But then how would Sawyer have ‘coincidentally’ met Jack’s dad, and heard the same Red Sox comment they both made. Maybe Sawyer was in the bar, but met someone else, not Jack’s dad. Maybe that person never really made the Red Sox comment. But how would Sawyer know what Jack’s dad looks like, or about that Red Sox saying? Could Sawyer have somehow read Jack’s mind, or thought what Jack was thinking

I like your theory lost2009...Sawyer knew what Jack's dad looks like because he can read jack's mind. Christian didn't tell Sawyer all those things. In Jacks mind this is what he wants his dad to tell him since he was a kid. Sawyer just heard Jacks thoughts thru Christian..hmmmm..interesting

Yeah, Locke. Locke, Locke, Locke.

This bothered me for the last week or so. If Locke just thinks that he can walk, but is still really in a wheelchair, how can he be getting around the island so well.

I was able to finally come up with an answer. Remember I have not seen all the shows, so I could be missing something very important. Since Locke was brought up, I will tell what I am thinking, but I hope someone else has some ideas.

Anyway, Locke seems to know what makes everyone tick. He seems to know their problems, and also works to fix them. He helps Charlie kick heroin, he helps Jack with leadership (and faith), he helps Sun when she is looking for her wedding ring, he helps Sawyer with his metaphorical boar. Did I miss where Locke was a shrink or self-help instructor? How does he know how to help everyone? Helen!

What if Locke is really Helen? Maybe we haven't seen all of Locke's story. What if Locke takes the walkabout rejection harder than we think, and kills himself. If it was Helen on the plane, she could be fullfilling Locke's destiny for him.

This would explain why he (she) is able to get around the island so well.

This sounded good before I typed it. But, now I think maybe I need some help!

You might like rthis thread http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=17518&highlight=survivors
It would have been really hard for a one armed man and a wheelchair bound one to dig out the hatch.
I think the only way we will figure this all out is looking at it from a different perspective.

Yeah, Locke. Locke, Locke, Locke.

This bothered me for the last week or so. If Locke just thinks that he can walk, but is still really in a wheelchair, how can he be getting around the island so well.

I was able to finally come up with an answer. Remember I have not seen all the shows, so I could be missing something very important. Since Locke was brought up, I will tell what I am thinking, but I hope someone else has some ideas.

Anyway, Locke seems to know what makes everyone tick. He seems to know their problems, and also works to fix them. He helps Charlie kick heroin, he helps Jack with leadership (and faith), he helps Sun when she is looking for her wedding ring, he helps Sawyer with his metaphorical boar. Did I miss where Locke was a shrink or self-help instructor? How does he know how to help everyone? Helen!

What if Locke is really Helen? Maybe we haven't seen all of Locke's story. What if Locke takes the walkabout rejection harder than we think, and kills himself. If it was Helen on the plane, she could be fullfilling Locke's destiny for him.

This would explain why he (she) is able to get around the island so well.

This sounded good before I typed it. But, now I think maybe I need some help!


Wow. Maybe we have too much info in our heads and we need to step back a step like you have. Awesome theory by the way.


I have a pet theory that Locke actually gave Helen the extra ticket he bought, in hopes she'd change her mind and join him, but with your theory it fits too.

Keep em coming

cool theory... keep em coming just like Helen said.

Interesting theory, but I'm getting confused.

So, using the earlier example of Walt seeing a monster so now everyone else does....

Why does everyone see the same thing. If two people see the trees moving and one of them imagines a monster, and another imagines a hurricane, why do we see the monster and not the hurricane.

Or am I not understanding this theory at all?

I like this theory.....I think the part about Walt and the monster is tough for me....but I do think that people could be being seen as they want to be seen. I think another aspect where this theory works is with .........



Sawyer...

The Letter...Remember the letter he shows Kate. He assumed the identity and name of Sawyer. Kate noticed that the letter which he could not manipulate with his mind showed his true identity.

He looked shocked in the police station in Austrailia when the detective knew his real identity....perhaps he is not as "gifted" as the others and cannot convinve himself as well as the others would like.

What do people think?

I like this theory.....I think the part about Walt and the monster is tough for me....but I do think that people could be being seen as they want to be seen. I think another aspect where this theory works is with .........



Sawyer...

The Letter...Remember the letter he shows Kate. He assumed the identity and name of Sawyer. Kate noticed that the letter which he could not manipulate with his mind showed his true identity.

He looked shocked in the police station in Austrailia when the detective knew his real identity....perhaps he is not as "gifted" as the others and cannot convinve himself as well as the others would like.

What do people think?


Yeah, people being seen as they want to be seen is easier to get on board with than the Walt/monster thing.

With regards to Sawyer, I assumed that being seen as you see yourself was only something that could happen on the Island. So the detective knowing Swayers real name wouldn't apply.

Some people have suggested that it would be tricky for Locke to hunt etc if he really was in a wheel chair, so perhaps rather than people seeing the characters as they see themselves, they have become how they see themselves.

I agree with them Becoming how they see themselves rather then being seen how they see themselves.

The sawyer flashback with the detective might depend on how you view the flashbacks...do you view the flashbacks as the absolute truth or how they want it to be?

The sawyer flashback with the detective might depend on how you view the flashbacks...do you view the flashbacks as the absolute truth or how they want it to be?

I view the flashbacks as absolute truth... the truth the help us figure out the secrets of the Island (they reveal far more about the characters than their actions on the Island do)

I like this theory...posting to follow :)

Regarding Locke, remember, the Locke we see might not really be Locke in a wheelchair. It could be anyone playing his role.

Some people aren't buying into the monster idea (by the way, I wasn't necessarily linking Walt to the monster, although, re-reading my first post sounded that way). If thoughts are 'heard' by everyone, than I don't see the difference between a character trait thought (Boone's arm) and ANY other thought (the monster). In each case, wouldn't everyone internalize the thought, and make it their own? A lot of my ideas revolve around inanimate objects appearing not as they really are (usually being manipulated by Locke).

LockeNKey, I like the Sawyer idea. I'm still trying to figure Sawyer out, but I have a feeling he is also not who we see him as.

I like this theory. I am going to go back and try to re-look over the characters to see if I can add anything.

Dude
This really rocks the boat alot, and I LIKE IT!
ya know, I used to be considered a warrior in my...wait, I digress...
The thought of Helen on the plane, Walt causing the vision of the monster, all of it. Way cool, but do you sleep well at night?

This is an interesting theory!

What if - Instead of people being seen how they want to be seen, they're being seen how people EXPECT them to be.

Example: Locke can walk because nobody sees him in the wheelchair, so nobody thinks he can't walk. People then just expect Locke can walk, so he does.

Not really too much activity with this theory, but I still think there are too many clues that the people we see are not who they really are. I’ve spent a lot of time going over weird little clues, basically everything that is discussed on these boards that doesn’t make sense. One episode in particular, Deus Ex Machina, was a lot of fun to play with. A friend of mine did not like my idea that Boone only had one arm. His point was how would Boone be able to climb up to the Nigerian plane if he only had one arm. I hadn’t thought about that. It seemed to be a pretty big nail in my theory coffin. I had to agree, unless, of course, it never really happened. Maybe, Locke made up the story of Boone falling to his death. I thought about the events that took place at that time, and one thing seemed really strange. When Locke first sees the plane (over Boones shoulder) he laughs. Of course Boone gets mad because he had just told his story about Theresa. But, why would he laugh? Why wouldn’t he just say, “Oh my, there’s the plane”? It seemed to me like he realized at that very instant exactly what his dream meant. And then I laughed too, because I realized how this could all fit my theory. It was a magical moment for me; I wish you all could have been there. Anyway, I’ll explain what I mean.

Boone is the type of person (at least what I saw) who did not just believe something because he was told it was the truth. He was a freethinker; he went on marches, etc. This is apparent when he and Locke are searching for Claire and Charlie. He asks Locke if learned all these tracking skills by working at a box company. And Locke says, “Yes”. Right away Boone says, “Yeah, right”. He doesn’t believe Locke. And later he actually starts confronting Locke about getting into the hatch, and about Locke’s idea that the island will tell them what to do. This actually peaks in Locke’s dream, where he sees a bloody Boone and the Nigerian plane crashing. He also sees himself sitting in a wheelchair in the forest! Holy cow was this fitting my theory! At this time I don’t think Locke really knows what it means, but he knows he has to wake Boone and go looking for the plane. Now as they are looking for the plane, Locke’s legs are slowly giving out. I think Boone is slowly coming out of his subconscious thought state, into a conscious one, where he sees Locke for who he really is. I think this why Locke is having more and more trouble walking. Soon they come across a priest corpse. I only mention this because I think it plays a role later. So they continue, until the scene I mentioned before, where Locke is on the ground and laughs when he sees the plane. So this is where Locke has his revelation about his dream. If Boone is rejecting the idea that Locke can walk, then Locke needs to stop Boone if he wants to continue his little charade. If Boone eventually sees Locke for who he really is (Helen or even his father) then he could probably convince the others, and Locke’s ‘destiny’ would be over. Locke can’t let this happen. Now, he could kill Boone. This would certainly stop Boone’s thoughts and protect his secret. But I don’t think he/she is the killing type. Then it hit me, and I think it hit Locke too. What if he were to bring Boone out of his subconscious thought entirely. Make him see things as they really are. Boone would no longer believe any of it. He could just tie him up somewhere, and he would no longer be in the thoughts of the other lostaways. Hopefully this is making sense.

So how does Locke bring Boone into total consciousness? Tell him he has to climb up to the plane. He won’t be able to do it. Boone will realize he only has one arm, and then will also see that Locke is really Helen, or whoever. This explains how Locke can all of a sudden walk again. Boone’s negative thoughts are out of the way. So then what? How about this, knock Boone over the head (like he did before) and tie him up. Now, bear with me, my theory gets really weird here. What if Locke picks up the priest corpse, and carries it back to camp as if it was Boone. Yes, this would mean Jack gave an I.V. to a corpse, and that they buried a corpse. I know, I just lost a bunch of people. But check this out. In the scene where they bury Boone, look at Sawyer. They carry the body across the beach and a bunch of people fill in behind. One is Sawyer, and he waves his hand in front of his face, almost as if he is crying. Sawyer, crying? I don’t think so. But what if he is waving his hand because of the rotting corpse smell. Check it out.

So, there you have it. I think Boone is alive and well, and they buried the priest corpse. The reason I posted all this was because I have a theory what happens in the next few episodes. This prediction is based solely on my theory and what the preview said would happen.

According to the preview they said someone would be lost forever in the next episode. There are 2 people this theory would center on. One is Jack. He confronts Locke on so many things; Locke might need to get rid of him, just like he did Boone. The other is Shannon. I think Shannon is really not even there. Notice how she hasn’t been around much. And did she really have a flashback of her own? I think she was a stepsister or whatever that maybe Boone didn’t save at one time, possibly in a fire (I see a lot of fire clues around Boone). Maybe that’s how he lost his arm. I think she is all in Boone’s imagination, his subconscious. And I think that is what Locke was really saying by, “It’s time to let go”, when he was talking about Shannon. The funny thing is, Boone has now let go, but everyone else thinks she is a real person. Anyway, I think it is Shannon who is lost forever. And I think Boone has escaped, and is the one who kills her (for good).

How’s that for going out on a limb?

Wow, lost2009. Wow. I don't even care if any of that ends up being true; it was a lot of fun to digest. Thanks for the theory!

Very interesting theory lost2009, however, it would work equally well to me if all the "flight 815 survivors" happened to be mentally ill. Suffering from an array of disorders... from schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder, fugue, chronic suicide attempts, PTSD, etc etc. Yet they're also being given suggestions (they're being manipulated) by some force that encompasses the whole island (if it is an island). Thus the show may resemble A Beautiful Mind more than it does as a literal The Matrix parallel ... however, I haven't ruled out a highly advanced technological aspect, in part, yet either.

Although very clever you tied Boone to the one who kills Shannon (or Boone's Shannon-personality). I agree, in part...I think Boone did indeed have a Shannon-personality, but that personality died in H&M (Shannon chewed up and spit out by "The Monster"). That could have been a bait & switch, but I'm more inclined to think Shannon, and the other "Flight 815 Survivors", are actually there.... the island inhabitants that existed pre-"crash", however? I'm not so sure.

Who are Desmond, Ethan and Danielle? Possibly some of "The Others"? I think they might be various personalities split-off from some of the "survivors" minds.. but shared by the entire group. Desmond is part of Jack. Ethan is part of Charlie. Danielle is part of Sayid. However, how is it possible the group is seeing and being influenced by these supposed psychological abnormalities from particular individuals? Because their minds were and still are all connected, possibly prior the plane crash by one big machine (or computer) and while they were in stasis. Now possibly by brain implants (which keeps them connected to each other and the "system"). Implants that can make them see/share/feel each other's emotions and thoughts (this is also why Walt can seemingly read minds, Rose knew Bernard was alive, etc), but also a means Big Brother can influence them (Locke can predict the weather, the whispers etc). Walt is different from them all because he can - unknowingly - use these theoretical brain implants (and the supercomputer or system they're connected to) most effectively. He can send images to the others more easily (polar bears?), but he can also control the system itself. In that I believe the "island" is an almost wholly artificial environment... the weather is also being controlled by a computer system. Walt can control the system... thus he can make it rain or stop raining, for example, at will. Locke can sense when the rain will come, but he can't make it rain (he can read the system, but he can't control it).

What is "The Monster"? I think it may be a collective manifestation of simulated samples of sounds/noises from some of the "Survivors" strongest, most emotional - but repressed - memories. Possibly more strongly tied to Jack, Kate and Charlie than any of them, but they're still all connected (per the above spec). Memories possibly tied to the origins of their mental breakdowns? Memories the "Survivors" don't want to face, but ultimately will have to... this could be why the "Monster" is both wonderful and terrible, yet all of them fear it. It's also influenced possibly by memory implants / suggestions c/o "Big Brother". Makes sense then the "Monster" should/would appear at the times when they've *all* suffered a terrible trauma. This is why it sounds familiar to some of them... because it's quite literally part of them. Something like in the movie Forbidden Planet, except "The Monster" may not really be there, at least not like in FP or as the Lostaways' imaginations likely perceive it. Thus, "The Monster" - as partly an implanted suggestion from Big Brother - it can exist both on the mental plane (Boone's hallucination), but it can also exist in the physical (an artificial "Monster" - possibly a electromagnetic machine of some sort that encompasses the whole underground of the island - designed to do random things... such as uproot trees or pull in people via grappling hooks, etc). It's both a mental and physical illusion to control - maybe cure (?) - the "Survivors".

Why are the "plane crash survivors" possibly really former mental patients? Because it's possible Big Brother may have considered the mentally ill more apt to their brand of experiments (suggestions, conditioning, brainwashing?), then someone with full, healthy mental capacities. Either their friends, family or caretakers don't know what this organization that has them really is doing to them and/or some/all were wards of the state. This is why they were all "chosen".

Then again, Big Brother's ultimate project may not necessarily be so insidious, but really does have good intentions. Is Big Brother trying to look for some ultimate cure to mental illness? At least for these particular people? It's to be noted that - unless it's more delusions or brainwashing - almost all the "plane crash survivors" seem to come from money. Perhaps the "survivors" friends, family or caretakers are funding this huge project? Trying - or were convinced by Big Brother (whether it's their true motive or not) - to find a cure? But, I will say, I do think it's more possible that the island project is indeed nefarious and very clandestine... whatever Big Brother has gotten the "survivors" friends and family to believe. It may be true they're looking for a cure, but they could also have other, bigger, motives in the works too. Synchronicity or Singularity, perhaps?

On some subconscious level they may even be aware of what's been done to them, but with the combination of their pre-existant unstable mental health, the possible conditioning and the controlled environment? They're not consciously aware of it, most of them anyway. Some may be closer to realizing the truth than others.

Sesostris,

Some really interesting ideas there. I think you are right that it would work equally well if all the survivors happened to be mentally ill.

I had another idea too, that maybe they are all under some sort of hypnosis, but not necessarily voluntary (something on the “island” might have them hypnotized). In order to be hypnotized you have to be in a very relaxed state. They had all passed out before the crash (except Kate, and maybe that’s a key), so they were all in a relaxed state. Also, if you were about to crash in a plane, wouldn’t you be wishing you had been able to do or see something that you didn’t get to do? Maybe the thought that was on their minds at the time of the crash is what they are living out now. Could they all be fulfilling their individual destinies?

I think there are many ways TPTB could explain how this is happening. Right now, though, I am having more fun trying to unravel the clues into their meaning.

I wouldn’t have time to go into detail on all my theories but I will list some things that are strange, and anyone can try to find a hidden meaning. Most of these things have all been talked about, but maybe not in this context:

Kate looking perplexed at Locke’s orange peel smile (I tie oranges to Kate).
Charlie saying Sawyer hits like a ponce.
Sawyer’s voice calms the baby.
Michael saying where he is from Koreans don’t like Blacks.
Michael leaving Walt in Sun’s care.
Locke telling Boone you can’t hear everything.
No hairbrushes.
The washer and dryer in the hatch.
Danielle’s message (16 years and 5 months).
There are a lot of fire clues.
There are a lot of clues someone was hit by a car (other than those we know).
Hurley (in my opinion) does not have the numbers memorized.
Christian’s Red Sox comment to Sawyer was edited in (pretty sure about this).

And there are many more.

I had another idea too, that maybe they are all under some sort of hypnosis, but not necessarily voluntary (something on the “island” might have them hypnotized).
The radio tower signal maybe? Is there an embedded subliminal message inside of it (something their conscious minds don't register, but their subconscious does... in a frequency average radios, transceivers, etc can't pick up)? Possibly keeping them in line, but some abnormalities or irregularities (like in Walt?) occur? Abnormalities they tried or are trying to neutralize... hence they kidnapped (but didn't kill) Walt?

However, I'm more inclined, considering this thread's title ;), towards the idea of suggestion. Maybe while they were all in some kind of stasis (cryostasis?). Possibly combined with the mentally ill factor (thus, they're more prone to suggestions... including states of hypnosis and/or subliminal messages)?

In order to be hypnotized you have to be in a very relaxed state.
Constant drugging may not hurt either. They've been eatting food off this island from the start (remember Claire's - or Aaron's more specifically - reaction after she ate Jin's urchin sushi?). Locke also drugged Boone to get him to see hallucinations ("I gave you an experience that I believe was vital to your survival on this island"). Of course, survival on the island apparently means... death by scaled-down plane crash?

I unspoiler-blocked my above post (you probably could do that to yours too lost2009 as the incident spoilered has already occured). I was thinking a little more on your theory about Shannon being a personality of Boone's. However, in regards to my "Castaways are Mentally Ill" spec above and that I do believe Boone did die crushed inside the plane ... was Boone actually a personality of Shannon's (or it's possible there were two Boones, one in Shannon's head and the other real)? I was watching the movie Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind the other day and in light of "Abandoned" (and me being a pathetic, hopeless romantic).... could Sayid and Shannon have been, essentially, like Joel and Clementine? They had a relationship once... a relationship that has been erased from their memories? Boone (a theoretical other personality of Shannon's) says Shannon "likes older men, guys who can take care of her. I guess in this place, you fit the bill".... we also know that Shannon had been married once (is she still married, were we ever told about a divorce?). There have been a number of comparisons made between Shannon and "No'or" (as Sayid knew her as a child... spoiled, wealthy and had a crush on Sayid. She showed it by pushing him in the mud.... ironically, after Shannon chased Walt for the last time in the rain, Sayid got up and ran after her but tripped and fell in the mud).

Could Sayid and Shannon have been married... still are (or were, till death do us part) married? Something neither of them remember due to the experimentations (en masse erasing and altering their memories?) of the island's Big Brother (Hanso/Dharma)? However, there's still something of a recognition to what they had before that the island couldn't erase/change completely? The theoretical other personalities are giving them clues to their forgotten pasts ("Boone", for example... maybe "Nadia" - via flashbacks - too)? Thus they rekindle a relationship on the island? When Sayid and Shannon took their relationship to the next level (Sayid openly admitted he loved her and "believed her") ... Shannon died immediately after. They had to kill her before either/or fully remembered their past lives (got too close to the truth)?

Interesting theory, but I'm getting confused.

So, using the earlier example of Walt seeing a monster so now everyone else does....

Why does everyone see the same thing. If two people see the trees moving and one of them imagines a monster, and another imagines a hurricane, why do we see the monster and not the hurricane.

Or am I not understanding this theory at all?



that could explain why the monster is a vage black smokey image, if it is ever seen, and its noises are animalistic and mechanical at the same time

that could explain why the monster is a vage black smokey image, if it is ever seen, and its noises are animalistic and mechanical at the same time
Welcome to the Fuselage. Happy posting.

So, using the earlier example of Walt seeing a monster so now everyone else does....

Why does everyone see the same thing. If two people see the trees moving and one of them imagines a monster, and another imagines a hurricane, why do we see the monster and not the hurricane.

Or am I not understanding this theory at all?
Maybe it's a matter of which person (or animal) is broadcasting a stronger signal...
or higher frequency? Or maybe someone/something is switching the channel, so to speak...tuning in to different thoughts in same mind and different minds and broadcasting to all or selected other minds.
ETA
P.S. I love this thread. lost2009...give us your thoughts on another character or
2 please!

Well, if I happen to be correct, I don't want to ruin the fun for other people who want to look for clues.

But, I'll throw out another since you asked.

Hurley -

It seemed strange to me that Charlie would make a comment that Hurley didn't appear to be losing weight after X number of days. Why would you put that into a script unless it is a clue. Also, when he goes in search of Danielle (I just saw that episode last night) he steps on a trap which will swing a giant ball of sharp branches at him as soon as he steps off. Jack, Charlie, (and I forget who else was there) all yell something like, "Don't move!". And Hurley says, "No, I can do it, I'm nimble". Sure, and I look like Brad Pitt. And then, here's the kicker, he crosses the rope bridge without breaking it, yet Charlie falls through. Seems strange right? Well, what if "Hurley" is really not as big as he appears. What if he is actually his SKINNY friend (played by DJ Qualls). It would explain the weird statements above. So, maybe it was DJ Qualls character on the plane, and he wishes it was him who won the lottery. So, when the plane crashes, he assumes Hurley's identity.

I'm going out on a limb with the last part, but there seem to be a lot of clues that Hurley is really not as big as he appears. This would add a whole new dimension to an already great show. And might explain why this forum places such a great emphasis on the character forums (as opposed to the theory forums, like most others). I think this show is really about who the Lostaways really are. The more time that goes by, the more their true identities are becoming lost.

Wow, I am looking at Hurley in a whole new light. Ever overheard a fight and "wished you said that". I wish I had been able to tell my fast food boss "cluck you!" I bet your right about hurley, I never thought of it that way.

Maybe Jack wishes he could be his dad-go home and relax and watch carol burnett. What if Jack is really Chistian dreaming he was Jack! Lets face it, he imploded and lost his career after operating on pregnant lady while he was drunk. Maybe he wishes he had stayed in the restaraunt on that fateful afternoon or the hospital had called jack in to operate (since he was closest to ER that day). Maybe thats why his casket is empty, Christian was on the plane as a human being, survived and is daydreaming he is JAck! Christian went to Australia to escape his personal demons, maybe he shipped back an empty coffin to fake his own death and get away from his wife and colleagues! morgue scene is a complete figment of his imagination! Christian wants to escape his marriage-and the empty coffin (closed casket wake) but I am dead gives him an escape from his troubled marriage. (and the JAcks wedding thing seems to be CHristian saying to himself, AM I marrying this woman for the right reason???) Bar scene with Sawyer actually happened. Thats why red sox line is repeated-Christian was in the bar with sawyer, and does wish he had called jack to say goodbye-before crashing on the island. I have no regrets in life, but maybe thats what the show is about-people daydreaming about alternate choices to mistakes they made (hurley seems to think he made a mistake buying the ticket since it cursed everyone around him-his gramps dropped dead, mom twisted ankle, meteor hit chicken shack,.....). The others abduct children from their parents. Maybe Marvin Candle is a mad doctor, and wishes he could be the Sheppards.

What if Charlies alter ego was Liam, the real star of driveshaft, wishing he could be his brother-drug free, happily married, and anonymous.

Claire had no psychic-she was the one who suspected the plane would crash in route to giving the baby up for adoption. She feels strongly against abortion, but doesnt want to put her baby up for adoption and she actually booked her own flight. Maybe the passenger in claires case is her unnamed best friend-the black girl she tells about the break up and who escorts her to the psychic. Maybe the black girl is the passenger of 815, dreaming she is Claire (black white recurring theme too).

Lost 2009 would love to hear your comments (as well as the rest of my forum bruthas :) )

I don't really agree with the theories posted above, but in line with the "power of suggestion" offer this:

They all had oxygen through the dropped masks when the plane dropped during the turbulence. Perhaps they were all knocked out, the plane remotely guided while scientists implanted "flashbacks" in everyone. They could implant memories of the crash, and set up any scenario they want, including "psychic" premonitions, or intuitions to be experienced on particular dates. They could even set up "triggers" words or actions that would elicit particular responses from others based on the programming received. What was it--Dark City? That movie where 'aliens' were programming people with different personalities and changing the environment every so often? Anyway, although all the details aren't worked out on this theory, it seems less complicated than using electromagnetic frequencies to alter perception and transmit thoughts.

They could implant memories of the crash, and set up any scenario they want, including "psychic" premonitions, or intuitions to be experienced on particular dates. They could even set up "triggers" words or actions that would elicit particular responses from others based on the programming received. .... it seems less complicated than using electromagnetic frequencies to alter perception and transmit thoughts.
Truthfully, I'm leaning towards a combination of the above. Pre-programmed memories and possible electromagnetic signals around the island / radio tower (influencing their behavior, making them hear/see a "monster" in the jungle, etc). Of course, if they have the capacity to program memories in the first place, you may start wondering if there was a plane (or even pasts) at all. In Dark City, their entire lives were pretty much fabricated (and perpetually altered). One man, John Murdoch, broke the cycle.

An fyi, but the man responsible for altering the memories in Dark City was Dr. Daniel Shreber. In the movie, he's a human doctor/scientist who became something of an endentured servant to the aliens for his knowledge / research in human memories. The name comes from Daniel Paul Shreber, a schizophrenic who wrote Memoirs of My Nervous Illness (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/094032220X/ref=pd_sim_b_1/103-0031778-1620645?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance) while institutionalized. I only bring it up due to my earlier specs about the Lostaways all possibly being mentally ill.

Truthfully, I'm leaning towards a combination of the above. Pre-programmed memories and possible electromagnetic signals around the island / radio tower (influencing their behavior, making them hear/see a "monster" in the jungle, etc). Of course, if they have the capacity to program memories in the first place, you may start wondering if there was a plane (or even pasts) at all. In Dark City, their entire lives were pretty much fabricated (and perpetually altered). One man, John Murdoch, broke the cycle.

An fyi, but the man responsible for altering the memories in Dark City was Dr. Daniel Shreber. In the movie, he's a human doctor/scientist who became something of an endentured servant to the aliens for his knowledge / research in human memories. The name comes from Daniel Paul Shreber, a schizophrenic who wrote Memoirs of My Nervous Illness (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/094032220X/ref=pd_sim_b_1/103-0031778-1620645?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance) while institutionalized. I only bring it up due to my earlier specs about the Lostaways all possibly being mentally ill.

Or if not mentally ill, maybe they are being made mentally ill in order for the experiments to take place. maybe that is what the sickness is and it is different with each person based on what their sickness/illness is supposed to be.

Or if not mentally ill, maybe they are being made mentally ill in order for the experiments to take place.
I've wondered that myself Simplist... if mental illness is either purposefully being caused or it's a side effect of whatever is being done to them. However, I suppose at the moment, I am leaning more towards - if they are mentally ill - that they were previously... and that is why they were all "chosen". The (hyperconscious) minds of the mentally ill possibly more suited to whatever project currently underway? More prone to suggestion, erasing or altering of memories?

maybe that is what the sickness is and it is different with each person based on what their sickness/illness is supposed to be.
I've wondered for some time if the "sickness" Danielle and Desmond mentioned was more mental than physical. Something they may all very well be infected with - perhaps for some time, even before the island? - and none of them realize it ("You're not going crazy. Crazy people don't know they're going crazy. They think they're getting saner").

Everytime I read this thread I enjoy it more.

Lost2009, I'd love to hear your theory on Jin and Sun.

Have you seen the talk of Eko being deaf? It fits this theory so well. I'm curious if you've given any thought to the other tailenders. Could Ana be connected to Kate?

If Kate didn't get the full dose of whatever was in the air masks, how does that fit? Is she seeing everyone as they really are?

Could Bernard and Rose be one person? It's the ultimate opposites. Black and White, Man and Woman, and when we get to know Bernard I'm guessing Soft and Hard.

Did Claire lose her baby in the crash, or when she was kidnapped, but they all believe she's still prego, so she is?

Do you have any thoughts on Michael?

Lots of cool ideas posted.

I've been trying to find some time to respond, but lately it's been difficult. I should be able to tonight, though.

Sesotris,

I'm still thinking about the idea of them being mentally ill. Would they have been mentally ill before "the crash", or are they mentally ill because of/after the crash?




Maybe it's a matter of which person (or animal) is broadcasting a stronger signal...
or higher frequency? Or maybe someone/something is switching the channel, so to speak...tuning in to different thoughts in same mind and different minds and broadcasting to all or selected other minds.



Wow! Now that would open up a lot of interesting possibilities. Maybe the channel switching is part of some sort of game. I have some ideas that there could be a game being played with the people being used as pawns of sorts.



What if Jack is really Chistian dreaming he was Jack!



Exactly what I was thinking. But take it a step further. What if his flashback reflects his dreaming also. What if it was Jack who botched the surgery, and Christian was the one who ratted (sp?) him out? I always thought it was a little strange when Jack's mother told him to go get his father in Sydney. I think she said something like "he has no friends there". That seemed strange to me. It seemed more like something a wife would say to her husband (go get your son) than what a mother would say to her son. Maybe I am reading into that too much, but that was another moment that struck me as strange.



Or if not mentally ill, maybe they are being made mentally ill in order for the experiments to take place. maybe that is what the sickness is and it is different with each person based on what their sickness/illness is supposed to be.



What would be causing the sickness? Would that make this all just an experiment? What other thoughts do you have?



Everytime I read this thread I enjoy it more.

Lost2009, I'd love to hear your theory on Jin and Sun.

Have you seen the talk of Eko being deaf? It fits this theory so well. I'm curious if you've given any thought to the other tailenders. Could Ana be connected to Kate?

If Kate didn't get the full dose of whatever was in the air masks, how does that fit? Is she seeing everyone as they really are?

Could Bernard and Rose be one person? It's the ultimate opposites. Black and White, Man and Woman, and when we get to know Bernard I'm guessing Soft and Hard.

Did Claire lose her baby in the crash, or when she was kidnapped, but they all believe she's still prego, so she is?

Do you have any thoughts on Michael?



I am actually having as much fun going back through season 1 as I am watching new episodes (well, maybe almost as much fun). Like someone mentioned earlier, I almost don't care if any of it comes true, it's just fun creating these 'what if' scenarios. Could you imagine being a writer for this show? That would be a dream job!

I tried to post last night, but my 2 year old was up and down until midnight, and I never got the chance. Not to mention my %$^&*% Eagles lost a Monday Night Football game they should have won. Did anyone see Matthew Fox at the game? Poor guy is an Eagles fan too!! I will post my ideas on Sun and Jin tonight, not sure they are complete thoughts yet though.

As far as Eko being deaf, yes I read that thread. Maybe I should post there also, but I tend to believe now that maybe his not talking was similar to Charlie's. Like, he wasn't talking because of some sort of Island induced trauma. I say this because of Ana's comment, "I liked you better when you weren't talking". If Eko's not talking was similar to Locke's legs, I am inclined to think that Ana would not know about his pre-crash condition. Just as the fusies do not (yet) know about Locke's legs. Although, I guess Eko could have told Ana. Or it would mean Ana knew Eko pre-crash ("I liked you better when you weren't talking"). Now, I'm not sure what I think.

There were also some cool things I noticed from Abandoned.

I chuckled when Boone and Shannon said:

Boone: Death sucks, doesn't it?

Shannon: You came back!

I know some people thought it was funny. But I thought it was funny more literally, meaning he actually came back from the dead.

Also (and I will probably start a new thread on this) I saw something weird (maybe this has been discussed, but I haven't seen it). When Vincent leads Shannon to Boones grave, the first scene shows Boone's grave (with a wooden cross). In this shot, Boone's necklace is hanging from the cross. The next scene is Shannon sitting on a log (I think) and you can see the cross without the necklace. Actually Shannon is holding it at this point, which explains why you don't see it hanging on the cross. Then, Sayid walks up behind her, and they deliberately show him glance at the wooden cross. Then they show a shot of the wooden cross, which I would assume is supposed to be from his viewpoint, and now the necklace is hanging there. The very next scene is again from behind the cross with Shannon and Sayid in the background, and, now the necklace is no longer hanging on the cross, Shannon is still holding it. Hope that makes sense.

This could very well be a production mistake, but I am not so sure. Why would they show Sayid glance at the grave, and then show it from his viewpoint? Not sure of the significance of this, but it seems to me they are saying Shannon "thinks" she is holding the necklace, at the same time Sayid "thinks" it is still hanging on the cross. Anyone who has Abandoned recorded, check it out. It's pretty strange. But this seems to fit my theory. Maybe someone else was imagining Shannon sitting on the log holding the necklace, but for some reason, Sayid was imagining the necklace still on the cross.

The necklace "moving" may be related to other occurences of objects moving/changing, e.g., the turntable and albums in the hatch. Don't know what it means but it's interesting. Seems like this could also be explained by something weird with time (or how it's perceived) on C Island.

I keep forgetting about lost-media. This will kind of show the sequence of the moving necklace:

This shows Shannon sitting on the log (holding the necklace):
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=437

Then right after, Sayid's view of the cross (notice necklace):
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=442

Then Sayid about to sit down (Shannon holding necklace):
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=444

This is either a silly production mistake, or a clue. Of course, I think it's a clue.

Can you believe I typed in a long description of my Sun/Jin thoughts last night, and just before I hit Submit, I lost power in my house. Ugh!!! Needless to say, I just went to bed.

I will try to re-compose it today (in Word) and post it later. However, it is Lost Wednesday, so I might be too busy on other threads.

TabbyRasa, did you post something after my last post? Last night I hit Preview Post (just before losing power) and I could swear I saw another post from you. But today it appears to be gone.

Drat on losing that post, lost2009!!!

Yes I did post, but deleted it since I decided it was too much of a stretch. Now that you've asked, I wondered if the title "Everybody Hates Hugo" was a clue to your theory about people not being or not being seen as who/how they really are. In that epi, some people did appear to resent him winning the Lotto and he did have the concern that people would hate him about managing the food in the hatch. But as Rose said "you're probably the only person on this island that everybody loves", and things went so well with him giving out all the food at the campfire. Everybody still love(d)(s) him.

Maybe the fact that Sayid sees the necklace on Boones grave indicates he has a different perspective than shannon or maybe that shannon is dreaming things. Maybe it indicates SAyid DID NOT SEE WALTs VISION and lied to Shannon to get some nookie.

Yes I did post, but deleted it since I decided it was too much of a stretch. Now that you've asked, I wondered if the title "Everybody Hates Hugo" was a clue to your theory about people not being or not being seen as who/how they really are. In that epi, some people did appear to resent him winning the Lotto and he did have the concern that people would hate him about managing the food in the hatch. But as Rose said "you're probably the only person on this island that everybody loves", and things went so well with him giving out all the food at the campfire. Everybody still love(d)(s) him.



Whew. I thought was losing it. Well, I am losing it, but maybe I have some more time.

But I don't think the title is a stretch, and I agree. I am sure there would be a lot of animosity toward him. I wish I could remember the flashback details more. I think with some of these characters I need to revisit their flashbacks all at once to really come to conclusions.

^^ he he, UPHM said "nookie"

It's been a while since I posted here. I would still like to post a complete list of my ideas, but finding time is difficult these days.

Anyway, since Fire and Water aired last night, I thought I would post my ideas on Charlie. I don't think I have posted this yet. I guess I am also surprised no one has posted this idea. Maybe it is way out there, but in my opinion, it almost seems too obvious.

I have had this idea for quite some time, and Fire and Water only reinforced it. We know Charlie to be religious, but I thought it was kind of strange what Claire said to Locke in a previous episode. She said something like, "I hope Charlie doesn't turn out to be some kind of religious freak or something.". Well, what if he is? What if he was really keeping the statues for the statue and not the heroin?

Someone can correct me if my facts are wrong, but this is how I saw Fire and Water play out. Charlie has some weird dreams that Aaron is in danger. He tells Ecko, who says, "Have you ever thought that maybe you need to save him?" (or something like that). As far as I know, he never tells Charlie that Aaron needs to be baptized. Charlie comes up with that idea. He then tells Claire, but she doesn't want him around the baby. So at night he starts a fire to draw attention away, and then picks up Aaron and takes him toward the ocean. Also, as far as we know Charlie is not using the heroin. None of the statues were broken (until we see him break one). And he dumps the bags of the statue he broke. And he claims he is not using, pretty emphatically in fact. So for arguments sake, let's say he is not using it. Granted, sleepwalking with a baby is not a good thing, but in the scene where Locke punches him, he is not sleepwalking. So I ask, why is he taking Aaron toward the ocean? Maybe Charlie is ..... a priest! Maybe he was going to baptize Aaron himself. Which is why in that scene he asks for Ecko to substantiate his actions. Ecko didn't give him the idea so he just says to Claire, "I didn't tell him to do that.".

In Charlie's first (?) flashback, he is confessing to a priest. This is actually when I got the first idea. The priest is the one person you would least expect him to be. Rockstar, preist, kind of opposites there.

Well, if this could be correct, then I think it is bad news for Charlie. If he is really a priest, and he's now starting to realize it, then that is a major problem .... for Locke. Locke doesn't want anyone to figure out the truth (just as Boone did). I think that is why Locke beat him up, and I think Locke will somehow take out Charlie. I also think that is why Locke is keeping the statues. If Charlie is really a priest, then he never really used heroin in the first place. Locke could start driving Charlie mad, and then give him back the heroin. Charlie will attempt to use it, and then finally realize that he never was a junkie.

While I like your theories generally, but we saw Charlie using on the island. Shoot, in the first ep he just went to find the cockpit to retrieve his stash. We saw him going to it again, seemingly pretty desperately and then, when he pitched it into the fire, he showed effects of withdrawal (I'm no expert on that but that's what they said so I accept it).

I will say that his withdrawal didn't seem very bad. I don't know if that was because he wasn't using long or because they didn't just want that interfering with the show.

They say there are no athiests in foxholes. I think Charlie was raised Catholic and is going back to that when under stress. However you might change as an adult, it can be hard to escape your early upbringing.

I'd still like to hear your theories about the other people. I don't go for this one but I do like the other ones.

That's what I like about this show so much. Ten different people can view the same episode, and you will get ten different explanations about the events.

When I saw Fire + Water I thought for sure I would come on these boards and find several threads titled, "So, Charlie is a priest?". That's what prompted me to post.

My idea that Charlie was never using heroin stems from the idea that Charlie is a priest. I needed to explain away the heroin to validate the priest claim. So I can't really argue your points, other than to say that maybe his using and withdrawal were also "hallucinations". What I find more interesting is how desperate he was to get Aaron baptized. It was his mission. And when Eko misquoted the bible it made him realize what he had to do. Not once (as far as I remember) has Charlie shown ill will toward Aaron. And I don't think he has the "sickness" or is using heroin. So, after running around saying that Aaron needs to be baptized, he decided to start a fire and throw him into the ocean? Or, if not, what was he going to do? I see only one explanation, baptize him.

Edit: Hey, I see my title is not "On the Tarmac" anymore. It's now "Baggage". Which is funny, because my wife has been calling me that for years.

I love this thread! However, I have one major problem. It conflicts with part of what I think but jells with the rest.

I think they are who they are. They are transforming into what they want. Boone might have been one armed. Locke was in a wheelchair. Boone didn't develope his power as immediate as Locke. Locke used his psychic ability to compensate for his disability immediately. Afterall, Locke wasn't born in a wheelchair, he knew how to walk. He "made" himself walk. Either Boone didn't catch on as fast or he just didn't have the mind stregnth to use his power as well as Locke.

I totally agree with the rest of Lost2009s interpretations.

welcome back 2009.

charlie is an altar boy (from a 2004 episode). Eko interpreted the dream about baptism, the baptism was ekos idea, eko told the John the Baptist vision story.

eko is a priest.

welcome back 2009.

charlie is an altar boy (from a 2004 episode). Eko interpreted the dream about baptism, the baptism was ekos idea, eko told the John the Baptist vision story.

eko is a priest.

Thanks, I'm again spending too much time on here!

I think Charlie being an altar boy only reinforces the idea of him being a priest.

However, what you said about Eko, is exactly what makes this show great. Different people will come to different conclusions about the same scene. The writers wanted you to come away with the idea that the baptism was Eko's idea. In fact, Eko never said anything to Charlie about baptism. Charlie explained his dream to Eko, and Eko merely said, "Did you ever think that maybe you need to save the baby". Or something like that. He never mentions baptism. The baptism is Charlie's idea. He came up with the idea based on what Eko said.

My idea is that Locke kept the statues to eventually break down Charlie, and send him to meet Boone. I don't think Locke was against the baptism, just against Charlie performing it. What if Eko is not really a priest (he has misquoted several things, including the John the Baptist story) and Charlie really is. And let's say Charlie knows that Eko is not a priest. Charlie will still feel the need to baptize Aaron. My guess is that we will continue to see Charlie attempting to kidnap Aaron. This will drive him further away from the rest of the group, and begin to drive him crazy. Locke will then allow Charlie access to the statues, and ... well, he'll realize he never did heroin and snap out of his hallucinations. So, if I am correct, watch Charlie over the next few episodes.

Lost2009,
I don't post much, but of all the theories I have read, I LOVE this one, and had to let you know that you rock!

Wow! This is the best thread I have read so far - Keep it up! It is also my first post. Greetings from Whitehorse, Yukon Territory.

Thanks, I'm again spending too much time on here!

I think Charlie being an altar boy only reinforces the idea of him being a priest.

However, what you said about Eko, is exactly what makes this show great. Different people will come to different conclusions about the same scene. The writers wanted you to come away with the idea that the baptism was Eko's idea. In fact, Eko never said anything to Charlie about baptism. Charlie explained his dream to Eko, and Eko merely said, "Did you ever think that maybe you need to save the baby". Or something like that. He never mentions baptism. The baptism is Charlie's idea. He came up with the idea based on what Eko said.

My idea is that Locke kept the statues to eventually break down Charlie, and send him to meet Boone. I don't think Locke was against the baptism, just against Charlie performing it. What if Eko is not really a priest (he has misquoted several things, including the John the Baptist story) and Charlie really is. And let's say Charlie knows that Eko is not a priest. Charlie will still feel the need to baptize Aaron. My guess is that we will continue to see Charlie attempting to kidnap Aaron. This will drive him further away from the rest of the group, and begin to drive him crazy. Locke will then allow Charlie access to the statues, and ... well, he'll realize he never did heroin and snap out of his hallucinations. So, if I am correct, watch Charlie over the next few episodes.

If it all goes down that way, then Charlie's a gonner. It won't matter that Charlie snaps out of it. He will have absolutely no power to talk to anyone about it. He will be received forever as the ranting of a lunatic. Kind of like Plato's allegory of the cave.

He would snap out of his hallucinations into madness?

I have finally put together a bunch of my thoughts. I put this together quickly so I make no guarantees on its clarity. Some of these ideas change with each episode. Please let me know if I state anything that is not true. I had to break this into 2 posts (it wouldn't allow it as 1).

Boone - I have previously posted on my ideas of Boone. To recap, I think Boone only has one arm. I say 'has', because I think he is still alive. Boone was rejecting the hallucinations and was beginning to see things as they really are. Locke took Boone to the Beechcraft and told him to climb up. Boone would realize he only has one arm, and basically snap out of the hallucinations altogether. This was Locke's plan. Not sure exactly where Boone would be right now. Maybe locked up, or tied up, or in a pit somewhere, being fed frequently by Locke (and/or Kate).

Shannon - I also posted on Shannon. I am not sure that Shannon was ever really there. I think that maybe Shannon had died sometime before the 'crash'.

Jack - I think Jack is really Christian, his father. This is my idea at this point. I think Jack might have been gay (I know, this has been mentioned before). And also not a doctor (however, I think Christian was a doctor, hence the ability to help everyone). Could Jack have actually been, I don't know... a mechanic? The band name 'Drive Shaft' seemed odd, and when I first came up with this theory, I figured the name was from someone else's thoughts. So maybe Drive Shaft meant someone was a mechanic. Also, I thought Jack's tattoos didn't fit his profession. So I put Jack and mechanic together. What if Christian found out that Jack was gay, and revealed it without Jack's permission, or did something else to drive Jack away. The conversation between Jack and his mother seemed odd. Jack's mother told him to go to Australia to bring him back. And, "He has no friends there". That seemed more like something a wife would say to her husband about their son. Maybe Jack died in a car accident or something and Christian was bringing his body back. Christian is now playing the role of Jack who followed in his father's footsteps and is looked at as a leader.

Another possibility is that Jack is really Jack, but he was a mechanic. His father died, and he is now wishing he had been a doctor and followed in his father's footsteps. This would explain why Kate is always around when someone needs help (see Kate below).

And while I am thinking of it, let me throw something else out. When we see a flashback, can we say for sure that we know who that flashback belongs to? We are never told, we just assume since each episode appears to be about a particular person. Assuming anything in Lost is a BIG mistake if you ask me. Here is an example, which also related to Christian. Don't we see a Sawyer flashback where he meets Christian in a bar? You know, the whole Red Sox thing. Anyway, we assume that is Sawyer's flashback, but if Christian is really on the island, couldn't that have been Christian's flashback? There is no real point here, just a thought I've had.

Kate - Ah, Kate. Straight to the point, I think Kate is Tom. Adds a new twist to the Kate/Sawyer and Kate/Jack kisses now doesn't it? Sorry any Sawyer fans that read this, but just wait, I haven't even gotten to him yet. Anyway, I haven't come up with a great scenario here, but what about this? What if it was actually Kate and Tom on the plane, not Kate and the Marshal? And Kate is the one with the shrapnel, not the Marshal, and Tom has assumed Kate's identity. Tom was a doctor (I think) so that would explain him being able to beat Jack at golf. Also, Kate (Tom) seems to be helping people as much as Jack (most recently being Sawyer's physical therapist). I also have feeling (unless we were told this already) that Tom was a pilot. I think he was in on the plane crash/landing or whatever really happened. I think Tom and Kate knew about the island and decided to 'escape' there together, but Kate accidentally died in the process.

Locke - I am beginning to think Locke is actually his 'father' who tricked him out of his kidney. I think he now feels guilty about what he did, and he is fulfilling Locke's destiny. Locke really wants to stay on the island, at least for now. I think Locke and Kate (Tom) are working together to prevent anyone from discovering the truth about themselves. When they went looking for Michael (who was looking for Walt) I think Locke purposely slowed them down for Kate to catch up. At one point, don't they climb a steep embankment? And I think Sawyer says, "Why don't we just go around".

Sawyer - Sorry, but there are just too many clues that Sawyer is really a woman. Either that, or an old man (which is what I originally thought). He is always getting punched and bullied by people who appear to be weaker. Charlie said he hit like a ponce. Doesn't 'ponce' mean feminine? Or is it old or weak? Also, Claire made the comment that Sawyer's voice calmed Aaron. I take that as a big clue. I have some more ideas on Sawyer, but they are not complete thoughts yet.

Hurley - I have also stated this before, but I think Hurley is actually his skinny friend.

Sayid - I have kind of taken the route that everyone is actually some else. This might not be the case. It could be that the person we see is really who they are, but they are pretending something else (like if Jack is really Jack, but just not a doctor). I say this here, because I am not too sure about Sayid. My first thought was that he was actually Nadia (was that her name)? This would also throw a twist on the Sawyer torture scene. It was always Nadia getting tortured, but maybe this was her turn to do the torturing. She would obviously feel bad about afterward, as Sayid appeared to be.

Sun/Jin - I will do Sun and Jin together. This puzzles me also. When Jin is working as the doorman, something just doesn't seem right. Sun's father tells him not to let in any of his kind (meaning there is a class difference, Sun's family is wealthy, and Jin’s is poor). But, that seems more like something that would be said of a race difference. Maybe that's just me, and I am really not trying to bring some race issue into the show, but I am just posting how I see it. Also, I am not sure what the race difference is, but it also seemed strange when Michael says "Where I come from Koreans don't like Blacks", or something like that. So, what if Sun and Jin were actually different races? I like two (of many) possible scenarios. One, Jin was actually not Korean and Sun never did get on the plane. Now Jin is pretending he was Korean, and as we have seen lately, really starting to respect his wife's wishes (as he did not before). Or two, Sun and Jin are actually Sun's parents pretending to be Sun and Jin. I personally like the first one better.

Michael/Walt - I will also do Michael and Walt together. Here's a strange idea: what if Michael is really Bryan Porter. Let's say Susan has just died and Bryan is taking Walt to see Michael when the plane 'crashes'. Maybe he is pretending to be Michael to replace the time lost between Michael and Walt. In other words, helping Walt. As an aside, here is another idea. As far as I remember there are only two times when someone mentions something about what is really going on. One is when Locke says to Jack "Everyone knows what is going on here, they're just too afraid to talk about it". The other is the conversation between Locke and Walt (the whole black/white backgammon talk). It seems to me that everyone knows what is going on, except maybe Walt. And Locke knows this, so he actually tells Walt. Maybe Walt (kids in general) won't hallucinate like everyone else. Maybe that is the reason to get the kids out. If they aren't hallucinating, they might blow the whole thing and start revealing things. I think Locke and/or Kate were in on Walt's disappearance. However, I also think they were responsible for leading Michael recently to Walt, but preventing Jack/Sawyer from getting away. Anyway, more about Walt under Vincent.

Rose/Bernard - Seems like a BIG clue that Rose has not had a flashback (has she?). Why? Remember the website that had the message "Dead wives have no flashbacks"? I don't think this was a confirmed 'Official' site, but seems too much like a coincidence. I think Rose really died (Jack did not save her). I think Bernard is imagining that she survived when her body is not found with the tailees. It would also explain why she WAS SO SURE that her husband was alive. Because it was really Bernard imagining her.

Vincent - Come on, Vincent's a good dog. I really like Vincent. But I love dogs, so, whatever. I hesitate posting this, but I will anyway. This is probably the most whacked out idea I have thought of. Didn't TPTB say that they were thinking at one point (at the end of last season) of showing what Vincent saw in reference to Walt's kidnapping? I think they were thinking of showing something from Vincent's point of view. That would have been cool, or weird, not sure. But, try this on for size. Vincent sees Walt coming out of the water (I know he was taken in a boat, but go with me here) after being kidnapped. And, you guessed it, he is soaking wet. He is then taken away, and that is the last Vincent sees of Walt. Now, Vincent (in Shannon's care) tries to tell her where Walt is. What image would Vincent have of Walt? Soaking wet, just as Shannon sees Walt. But Vincent can't speak, so Shannon only hears Walt speak gibberish (since Vincent cannot project the words). The images of Walt are coming from Vincent.

Ok, my head is spinning. I think the rest of these will be kind of quick. These are the tailees, and I really haven't given them too much thought yet.

Ana Lucia - Let's just say Ana Lucia is quite masculine. And, what about her latest line, "Are you hittin' that?" I don't know many women who would say that. Maybe to a girlfriend, maybe. But to Jack? I really think Ana Lucia is really a dude. I don't remember her flashback too well. Didn't she kill a guy who shot her (and she was pregnant)? Could she really be him?

Eko - Doesn't seem to make a very good priest. In fact, maybe his brother was not a priest either. Maybe Eko's brother got him involved in drug running, and got Eko killed. Maybe the Eko we see is really Eko's brother.

Libby - I don't really know much about Libby yet, I'll leave that to Hurley.

The Hatch - Does the hatch remind you of anything? Something we've seen on the island. Anyone? Buehler? Buehler? Sorry, I like that movie. Anyway, the hatch reminds me of the cave. Remember when Jack and Charlie get trapped in the cave and they eventually follow a moth out through a hole, IN THE CEILING of the cave. Yep, I think the hatch is merely the cave. I think they would have covered the hole that Jack and Charlie came out of with something. Maybe a plane part? I think that is all it is. The 'door' they were trying to open was just whatever was covering the hole. So, yes, I think there is no computer, button, or washer/dryer.

Security system - You could tell Locke HATED the security system his 'father' had in place. When Locke goes to confront him about his kidney he even looks at the security camera with disgust. Sort of like, something looking down on you that has control over your destiny. I think Locke is 'creating' the island's security system to keep everyone there.

Final thoughts. I am not convinced they are even on an island, or that they crashed. Has it been discounted that this is some sort of group therapy session? Also, haven't people said the monster sounds like a subway? Maybe, as Javi says, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Edit 1: added missing names, I just did this way too fast.
Edit 2: I see I forgot Claire and Charlie. Charlie I already mentioned I think he is a priest. I will have to post later on Claire. I am starting to think she is pretty important.

I’ve read more than a dozen theories from half a dozen newsgroups and this one is by far the most compelling, in my opinion. However, part of me really wishes I hadn’t been reading this thread at all; it’s actually caused me some degree of angst and stress with pondering & thinking it all through. To put it another way, part of me hopes that this theory is totally wrong but the other part of me actually does hope it is true, because it would really mess with everyone’s heads, my own included. Essentially, there are three possibilities regarding this theory: (1) It is totally wrong / crazy / "way out there,” crazy, misguided, or (2) It’s sort of correct in some respects but missing a lot because the writers are far more intelligent / devious / sneaky than we could ever imagine, or (3) It is almost totally “bang-on” correct. I seriously hope that #2 is the case. Regardless, it will be fun following the show with all this in mind. I just hope the show doesn’t fall flat on it’s face, crash, disappoint, and stop being so intriguing, because that would be tragic and make me not want to ever take a chance on a series again. How much longer can they keep it up? That is, will the writers/producers be able to keep us salivating, teased, and craving more, as they have miraculously done for a season and a half so far? What show has ever been able to do that over any sort of long haul? The only other series that "kept me going" in the same way was Babylon 5. Thank you, lost2009/Baggage and everyone else in this thread! Please keep it up. btw, I love the subscribe feature.

beavis6,

I agree with your assessment 100%. I also think that this theory falls under #2 (partially correct in some respects). Obviously I wouldn't be posting if I thought #1 was the case (completely incorrect). And, I will be the first to admit there is absolutely no way #3 is the case (completely correct). If the main idea were to turn out correct (people/things are not as we see them) it would make for some fantastic future episodes in my opinion. They could show post-crash flashbacks (from on the island) of situations we remember, but now with the characters/things as they really are. For instance, what if Kate is really Tom, and Sawyer is really a woman? They could flashback to the Kate/Sawyer kiss, but this time it would be Tom and whoever Sawyer really is.

I actually still have a bunch of ideas, but some are even more whacky, so I think I will wait on them for now. I don't want to scare everyone off. Thanks to anyone who has labored through my long posts.

Lost 2009-
I LOVE THIS THREAD and I will tell you why
According to the philosopher, David Hume (1711-1176) our perceptions are made of impressions (immediate sensations of how we experience the world) and ideas (how we recall our impressions). So inspired by Hume I always thought wouldn't it be interesting if...everything is my perception based upon my impressions and ideas. In other words... you are all my creation...If I die, you are all gone.

So apply this to Lost and I think we have your ideas. When I read your initial theory... way back 5 pages ago when you were still in episode one, I was like, absolutely. The "monster" is exactly the fear a ten year old would have.

If everyone is interconnected and part of each other's lives, aren't they a product of each others impressions and ideas. I love the idea that Kate is Tom, that would explain why she always looks fantastic... I man would see her that way. Would want to see her washing in her undies... it all fits.

I think Eko's black smoke has the people of his past in it because he has done penance for those crimes and perceives them as not a threat. I think his life between the 23rd psalm and the island was a time of penance. But if I apply your theory, I wonder if he is his brother and perceiving his life as his priest brother would perceive him: penitent but still holding on to his hero like qualities.

I might have repeated a sentiment you already had, I got excited on reading your thread I must admit I skimmed a wee bit.

I will be excited to hear more...

I've been in real, intense "Lost Mode" since I saw the last two episodes. I've read dozens and dozens of posts on fuselage, talked with my friends, and listened to several good podcasts.

btw, which podcasts do other people like? I listened to the ones at http://lost.cubit.net/podcast.php[/
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/podcasts/104146.html


I really think all the stuff on the island has been put together for whatever purpose by whoever is behind the scenes or running the show. It just all seems so contrived, with all the Dharma stuff, the video, ship, the cable in the sand, the old video reel, the numbers, the smoke, hidden imagery/messages, etc.

My main stumbling block has been attempting to rationalize in my own mind how "they" organized getting all these people together to crash on the island unless all the flashbacks aren't quite real but an aspect of group hypnosis/ power of suggestion. There are so many clues that the castaways have just accepted being there now, although some of them did make the one raft attempt. However, there have been no further attempts and I would have thought there would have been some push to keep a signal fire burning or keep a big message or marker for any planes that happened to fly by or whatever (like "HELP!"). Also, the characters seem to keep alternating their behaviours and acting contradictory, sort of like you would do in therapy or if you were being experimented on. More significantly, I have a hard time believing that all these people could be tied together the way they are (so intricately and subtly) and then somehow coincidentally ending up on a plane.

Therefore, I'm still sticking with this "power of suggestion idea." Also, after lost2009/Baggage posted the notion that maybe it is "group therapy" of some sort, I got thinking more. Maybe all the "bad" and "good" things on the island that seem paranormal or beyond-science are actually just manifestations of how people are figuring things out or being treated as part of a big group therapy treatment with group hypnosis (benevolent) or some crazy, diabolical experiment (malevolent). That would make the most sense because although there are exciting possibilities with electromagnetism and astro-physics, as well as intriguing, deep conspiracy theories in the world, the "group therapy" theory or the "crazy Experiment" theory are more plausible. Either way it would all just be "in their heads." Am I using too many quotation marks here? Anyway, it's interesting how the writers answer questions about the scientific aspects of the show, saying that it is all plausible/reality-based/etc. I think that all the crazy tech/spiritual stuff is just a red herring to keep us off track. Some people really get into it with those thousand page posts like the Ultimate Theory and I bet the writers/producers are giggling all the time about it.

So, having narrowed it down to those two possibilities (for now), I have to lean towards the group therapy idea. The evil experiment thing would be too hard to pull off. Either way, however, either way, patients in group therapy or subjects in an experiment would probably incorporate all sorts of crazy ideas from the "real world" into how their conscious and subconscious rationalized their "state of mind." Maybe the characters that have "died" aren't real people, or maybe they have finished therapy/treatment or maybe they are aspects of peoples' personalities or memories that come and go.

Actually, I really enjoy all that stuff and have more cool ideas that I want to organize into a posting that involve surrealism, psychoanalysis, dreams, and relativity. Does this make any sense to anyone else? PLEASE UPDATE US with your ideas and thoughts, lost2009/Baggage! I'm curious if the last few episodes have changed or supported your views of what is going on.
100%
The writers/producers (TPTB) apparently say a few things that may discredit this theory (as well as similar theories like VR, futuristic prison, etc.) But maybe group therapy/experiment/VR treatment could be explained in a way that doesn't contradict the statements from the official TPTB Lost people. Here's my attempt:

TPTB apparently say the following (I couldn't find the primary sources so I paraphrased what other posters on fuselage have stated that the producers/writers have said):

(1) the island is real,
(2) the castaways are not in a coma,
(3) this is not a dream, and
(4) everything has a realistic/plausible explanation.

Could this group therapy/treatment/whatever be taking place on a real island? Or could it be a group hypnosis/Virtual Reality based on a "real island" template, thereby not being inconsistent with what TPTB have said? Somebody please feel free to add/correct me on any of this. If there is something that TPTB have said which definitively negates the Power of Suggestion/Group Hypnosis/Therapy type theory then please let me know!

this theory sounds a lot like the novel sphere by michael crichton

I just thought I would toss out another idea on this theory. The recent episode S.O.S. triggered an old idea I had that I don't think I ever posted. I wasn't going to post again since I was recently referenced as one of the more ridiculous theories here, but I am still having fun with this theory, so I figured what the heck. I normally don't care what other people say/think about me, so why start now. Anyway this is my theory, and I'm sticking with it.

So, along the line of this theory, I always wondered what is the smoke monster? What thought of one of the losties would translate into a smoke monster that kills? And, that kills some but not others. The only thing in real life that I have heard referenced as smoke that kills is from cigarettes. So my idea was that one of losties lost a loved one from cancer caused by smoking. And this thought of a killing smoke monster was subconsciously 'heard' by everyone else and became 'real'.

After seeing S.O.S. I couldn't help but think of Rose. I don't think we were ever told what was killing her, but it seemed like they were referring to cancer. Also, there was a discussion about some possible CGI white smoke around Rose's mouth in one scene. Maybe it's all coming from Bernard's subconscious thoughts.

2009 - I am surprised I've never seen your theory before. It's very interesting and I hope the last two eps of the season give some good fodder for this!

Could this group therapy/treatment/whatever be taking place on a real island? Or could it be a group hypnosis/Virtual Reality based on a "real island" template, thereby not being inconsistent with what TPTB have said? Somebody please feel free to add/correct me on any of this. If there is something that TPTB have said which definitively negates the Power of Suggestion/Group Hypnosis/Therapy type theory then please let me know!

I have been saying that this is a group therapy for over a month and while I originally said VR was involved I do not necessarily hold to the standard computer generated VR concept necessarily. I don't actually care what the technology is since it will not be anything that is currently available. However I believe there is mind/memory manipulation going on and I have posted several theories about specific individuals describing what is real and what isn't.

If you look at everything we have been shown on the island related to the DHARMA Incentive such as: zoology - polar bear, meteorology - predictable rain, parapsychology - probably Walt, and magnetism - that big magnet which does who knows what, the only thing left is psychology which is what I believe the losties are involved in. And what better candidates for a psychological program than people with psychological problems. I don't buy the Skinner box idea since not only is it trivial it doesn't explain the need for 46 or so people to push a button. All the losties on the island have problems and can be considered as patients. The "others" who control the situation are the doctors. The science has to do with ming manipulation. By the way, my bet is that Fake Henry is a psychiatrist who is there to push the patients buttons.

I just thought I would toss out another idea on this theory. The recent episode S.O.S. triggered an old idea I had that I don't think I ever posted. I wasn't going to post again since I was recently referenced as one of the more ridiculous theories here, but I am still having fun with this theory, so I figured what the heck. I normally don't care what other people say/think about me, so why start now. Anyway this is my theory, and I'm sticking with it.

So, along the line of this theory, I always wondered what is the smoke monster? What thought of one of the losties would translate into a smoke monster that kills? And, that kills some but not others. The only thing in real life that I have heard referenced as smoke that kills is from cigarettes. So my idea was that one of losties lost a loved one from cancer caused by smoking. And this thought of a killing smoke monster was subconsciously 'heard' by everyone else and became 'real'.

After seeing S.O.S. I couldn't help but think of Rose. I don't think we were ever told what was killing her, but it seemed like they were referring to cancer. Also, there was a discussion about some possible CGI white smoke around Rose's mouth in one scene. Maybe it's all coming from Bernard's subconscious thoughts.

2009 - I am surprised I've never seen your theory before. It's very interesting and I hope the last two eps of the season give some good fodder for this!

yup, 2009 doesn't say much but says it well.

When I began watching S.O.S. I thought, "Great! Finally they are making efforts to get rescued again!", after noting for a while now that everyone just seems resigned to living there on the island. But see how easily everyone gave up? Bernard seemed fervent but then just dropped the idea (well, I guess his love of Rose is a strong motivator).

I think that subconsciously at least, most of the Losties have reached the acceptance stage or maybe have been encouraged/discouraged to be resigned to staying there, by the "Experimenters?" " The Others?" "Dharma?" I'm convinced that "normal people" would keep trying to do signal fires, SOS or HELP signs, and building a new boat. You'd think that at least some of the 40+ survivors would keep trying, wouldn't they? Unless they've all been influenced somehow with their subconscious, as well as conciously enticed, both directly and indrectly (love, food, companionship, etc.).

When I watch the show, I keep thinking about many ideas from Surrealism and Psychoanalysis but I've yet to tie it in specifically or concretely with this Power of Suggestion/ Group Therapy theory. I think that the concepts of consciousness & unconsciousness are huge in this show. I agree with lost2009 that all the missing limbs stuff can be explained by this.

I am further convinced that a lot of what we see/hear are red herrings planted to mislead/trick us. In my humble opinion (no offence meant to anyone posting on fuselage) all the grand / all-encompassing theories really fall into that trap of relying on the red herrings. There likely isn't some big Illuminati, Da Vinci Code type of conspiracy. Instead, it's more along the lines of "it's all in their heads" without violating the carefully worded pronouncements of TPTB, specifically: "It's not a dream." - Source: Abrams on 20/20 and "This is not a fictional reality that is playing out in someone's brain." - Source: Producer Damon Lindelof. and "It's not all the manifestations of their worst fears" Source: TBD. These caveats do not preclude Group Therapy taking place, perhaps on a real island or maybe even in an actual psych ward.

Also, anyone have an idea of how the dual flashbacks from both/either/neither Rose and Bernard get played out with this Power of Suggestion/ Group Therapy theory? Isn't it clearer who was doing each flashback with all the other characters? Maybe someone else has already written about this but with Rose and Bernard, it is purposely vague which of them was having what flashback. Maybe they are both one character that is manifested into two halves - black & white? This could be an aspect or result of the group therapy maybe?

Also, anyone have an idea of how the dual flashbacks from both/either/neither Rose and Bernard get played out with this Power of Suggestion/ Group Therapy theory? Isn't it clearer who was doing each flashback with all the other characters? Maybe someone else has already written about this but with Rose and Bernard, it is purposely vague which of them was having what flashback. Maybe they are both one character that is manifested into two halves - black & white? This could be an aspect or result of the group therapy maybe?

Good point on the Rose/Bernard flashback. I think it was deliberately made ambiguous however I believe that only Bernards memory has been tampered with. I think Rose is in on what is going on and is there to help Bernard who's real background will be kept a secret or at least ambiguous for some time. Since I believe that this is a therapy program, the tailies were seperated initially from the rest for a reason. I think the tailies are people participating in this program from a prison environment as opposed to the fuselage group. Here is a more detailed theory concerning the tailies (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=901624&postcount=55). The S.O.S. episode didn't confirm or deny this theory but I believe it furthered it by giving a reason for Rose to help Bernard even though he might have committed a serious crime.

whoa dude 2009 u seriously look beyond the fence wiv this. i wanna know wat's ur theory on Vicent, because i think the dog (fitting in wiv ur theory of body/mind swapping...the dog is a person, perhaps a survivor or an other or maybe just a really clever dog...but there is more behind his relationship wiv Walt. maybe walt has a connection wiv Vicent and then passes tht relationship onto Shannon, after her death who will Vicent now befriend...or is he looking for Walt...oh and wat led Shannon into the jungle before she was shot by Ana Lucia? i forgot

When I began watching S.O.S. I thought, "Great! Finally they are making efforts to get rescued again!", after noting for a while now that everyone just seems resigned to living there on the island. But see how easily everyone gave up? Bernard seemed fervent but then just dropped the idea (well, I guess his love of Rose is a strong motivator).

I remember your earlier post and felt the same way. But then it all dropped.

2009 - I am surprised I've never seen your theory before. It's very interesting and I hope the last two eps of the season give some good fodder for this!

myothercarisflight815, I've seen some of your other posts and I like your ideas.

I have been saying that this is a group therapy for over a month and while I originally said VR was involved I do not necessarily hold to the standard computer generated VR concept necessarily. I don't actually care what the technology is since it will not be anything that is currently available. However I believe there is mind/memory manipulation going on and I have posted several theories about specific individuals describing what is real and what isn't.

I agree about the mind/memory manipulation. Whether it is intentional (as part of therapy, etc.) or whether it is accidental (a result of a leftover experiment, etc.) I can't quite figure out. I do believe that a lot of what we see is taken from the subconscious thoughts of the losties. It's like they are subconsciously connected but don't even realize it. And that's why one person's subconscious thoughts (flashbacks) are showing up as part of someone else's subconscious thoughts (flashbacks). I don't think all the connected back stories are real. And the reason we can't figure out the story (Dharma, the button pushing, Black Rock, etc) is because it is actually just bits and pieces of everyone's thoughts molded together. I believe the 'truth' will be revealed at some point, but at that point everyone's identity will be lost. They will then need to figure out which memories actually belonged to them.

Also, anyone have an idea of how the dual flashbacks from both/either/neither Rose and Bernard get played out with this Power of Suggestion/ Group Therapy theory? Isn't it clearer who was doing each flashback with all the other characters?

Actually you can say the same thing about several other sets of flashbacks. Jin/Sun, Michael/Walt, Shannon/Boone, and now possibly Hurley/Libby. In fact with all the interconnections in flashbacks, can we say for sure we know who any of the flashbacks belong to? Just because the show implies the flashback/owner relationship I don't think we can assume this is always the case.

whoa dude 2009 u seriously look beyond the fence wiv this. i wanna know wat's ur theory on Vicent, because i think the dog (fitting in wiv ur theory of body/mind swapping...the dog is a person, perhaps a survivor or an other or maybe just a really clever dog...but there is more behind his relationship wiv Walt. maybe walt has a connection wiv Vicent and then passes tht relationship onto Shannon, after her death who will Vicent now befriend...or is he looking for Walt...oh and wat led Shannon into the jungle before she was shot by Ana Lucia? i forgot

Neat idea that Vincent could be a person. The only idea I had about Vincent was in relation to the idea of the subconscious mind reading stuff. My idea was that Vincent was suconsciously telling Shannon where to find Walt. However Vincent doesn't speak English (well, at least not that we've seen yet) so Shannon hears Walt speaking gibberish.
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Several people have mentioned the group therapy idea, so I decided to do a little digging. I really don't know that the group therapy idea explains everything (like, are they really on an island, or is this all imagined?). But that doesn't mean it is not worth looking into.

So I found a few things. Apparently it has been shown that many "recovered" memories (memories recovered in therapy) are actually partially "made up" by the patient/therapist. I don't take this to mean it is intentional, it's just how the subconscious mind works.

"A majority of mental-health professionals believe that in most -- perhaps all -- cases of supposed recovered memory, the shards of information bobbing to the surface are not recollections of actual events, but fantasies shaped by external stimuli -- usually in therapy, where therapist and patient can become coauthors of fictional narratives masquerading as fact. Bogus memories can emerge from therapeutic techniques like visualization, guided imagery, drug-induced age regression, EMDR, or hypnosis. In 1993, the American Psychiatric Association warned its members to be wary of pseudo-memories confabulated in treatment."


http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/guide_mang_men.htm



Then I read about a form of subconscious rational emotive therapy:

"Because the suggestion is a rational idea (Ellis, 1973), its use may have positive results in more than one set of conditions, wherever the idea may he applied. The subconscious finds a means for the in vivo realization of the suggestion, even if the specific means has not been suggested. This is known as the law of subconscious teleology (Baudouin, 1922), and explains the movement of ideas implied by one experience and applied to a different one. For example, an idea assimilated in childhood may be the cause for adult behavior because of the symbolic yet logical nature of sub- conscious thought. No matter the dissimilarities of the material conditions, if autosuggestion is at work, the subconscious will find a way to make the idea suit the event symbolically and achieve the suggested outcome."

http://self-hypnosis.org/hypnotherapy.html

You might be saying, "Huh, what does that have to do with anything"? Well, I'm not really sure. I had re-read it a few times because I didn't really get it at first. Then all of a sudden, something jumped out at me. Now, before anyone bashes me, I'm not in any way saying this is relevent. It's just funny, and I almost literally fell off my chair. Look again at the paragraph above. Go ahead I'll wait. See it? Law of subconscious teleology? Or should I say, Law Of Subconscious Teleology? LOST?

Ok, I've had too much coffee today. Forget you ever read this.

The show does appear purposely vague about who is having each flashback and I think this is key to deciphering the show. The flashbacks are presented in a cool, unique format that we haven't seen in other movies or shows. They seem too carefully contrived to me, with when they happen, how they are presented, and especially with the numerous (and mounting number of) connections. It's actually not possible or even conceivable for all of the these inter-related circumstances and patterns to be considered coincidences.

You raised some more interesting topics that I've started researching to help me figure this show out. Wikipedia is a great resource for this. I'm starting with the following terms: subconcious, hallucination, hypnosis, brainwashing, and project MKULTRA.

Now, regarding TPTB official responses and how they relate to this thread, I found another interesting one. If you look at http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Dave it states near the bottom that "While the creators have said that the Island is not the product of one person’s imagination. They have NOT said that it is not a shared hallucination among multiple people." Can anyone confirm this? If TPTB did make this statement, then I suspect that it supports this thread's theory because it seems so carefully phrased ("one person's"). I searched on fuselage and google for a summary of all the official denials/confirmations from TPTB but only found a suggestion from someone that you can look at all the posts by each Producer, Writer, Director. That didn't really help. Anyone know of any good sites or threads that summarize or better yet analyze what TPTB have said in response to theories, in writing and from podcasts?

If you look at http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Dave it states near the bottom that "While the creators have said that the Island is not the product of one person’s imagination. They have NOT said that it is not a shared hallucination among multiple people." Can anyone confirm this?
Here are a few quotes I took from a foreign article (http://perdidosporlost.blogspot.com/2005/08/lo-que-nos-dicen.html); I've bolded the one I think you are referring to (and I love this theory also):

"We’re still trying to be ... firmly ensconced in the world of science fact. I don’t think we’ve shown anything on the show yet... that has no rational explanation in the real world that we all function within. We certainly hint at psychic phenomena, happenstance and ... things being in a place where they probably shouldn’t be. But nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn’t any time travel." - Damon Lindelof

"There could not possibly be aliens because, as everyone knows, this is not a science fiction show" - Damon Lindelof

"No, they’re not dead." - Javier Grillo-Marxuach

"It’s not a dream." - J. J. Abrams

"This is not a fictional reality that is playing out in someone’s brain." - Damon Lindelof

"First off, I want to go on the record as saying there are no dinosaurs on the island. There haven’t been, there won’t be, it will never happen." - Damon Lindelof

"This is not a show about the supernatural, despite the fact that we have a very huge creature that likes to eat people. Despite the surreal, bizarre aspects of the island, there will be an explanation for it. It may not come for a very long time, but certain information about the island will explain how things are possible. We’ll try to root it in real science or real pseudo-science. There will be no mystical reason or an island of monsters. The island has been around for millennia, and many people have found themselves on it, and as far as we know, nobody has ever gotten off. There is also the possibility of others being on the island, they just haven’t seen them yet. And we’ll never know how big this island is. It could be enormous, but odd things will keep them from knowing the full length and breadth of it. It’s an interesting little allegory. It will be very mysterious... The show will always be from the perspective [of] the people on the island, so we never see the outside world, except from their perspective." - David Fury

ETA link

The show will always be from the perspective [of] the people on the island, so we never see the outside world, except from their perspective." - David Fury

I am presuming that the writers and creators of the show maintain this perspective when they answer questions about the show.

Originally Posted by TabbyRasa The show will always be from the perspective [of] the people on the island, so we never see the outside world, except from their perspective." - David Fury

I am presuming that the writers and creators of the show maintain this perspective when they answer questions about the show.
That is very astute:)...thanks for that! Gosh...if true, that would neutralize every disclaimer they've given yet...

TPTB are sneaky... ;) (in a good way)

That is very astute:)...thanks for that! Gosh...if true, that would neutralize every disclaimer they've given yet...

TPTB are sneaky... ;) (in a good way)

It doesn't necessarily negate what they said but it does leave it open to interpretation.

"This is not a show about the supernatural, despite the fact that we have a very huge creature that likes to eat people. Despite the surreal, bizarre aspects of the island, there will be an explanation for it. It may not come for a very long time, but certain information about the island will explain how things are possible. We’ll try to root it in real science or real pseudo-science. There will be no mystical reason or an island of monsters. The island has been around for millennia, and many people have found themselves on it, and as far as we know, nobody has ever gotten off. There is also the possibility of others being on the island, they just haven’t seen them yet. And we’ll never know how big this island is. It could be enormous, but odd things will keep them from knowing the full length and breadth of it. It’s an interesting little allegory. It will be very mysterious... The show will always be from the perspective [of] the people on the island, so we never see the outside world, except from their perspective." - David Fury


I have way too many ideas after this season to possibly post about, but after re-reading TabbyRasa's link again to the David Fury comments I figured I would bring something up. I realize his comments may no longer be valid, but without someone from the show saying they aren't, I will assume they are. Anyway, re-read the last sentence:

"The show will always be from the perspective [of] the people on the island, so we never see the outside world, except from their perspective."

Doesn't that mean that the last scene with Fack (ha, I just made that up, 'Fake Jack') is from the perspective of someone on the island? Meaning, their imagination. Meaning, not real.

I know someone will post saying "He just meant the flashbacks, not this case." So I will beat you to it. And it could be, but that's not what he said.

I have way too many ideas after this season to possibly post about, but after re-reading TabbyRasa's link again to the David Fury comments I figured I would bring something up. I realize his comments may no longer be valid, but without someone from the show saying they aren't, I will assume they are. Anyway, re-read the last sentence:

"The show will always be from the perspective [of] the people on the island, so we never see the outside world, except from their perspective."

Doesn't that mean that the last scene with Fack (ha, I just made that up, 'Fake Jack') is from the perspective of someone on the island? Meaning, their imagination. Meaning, not real.

I know someone will post saying "He just meant the flashbacks, not this case." So I will beat you to it. And it could be, but that's not what he said.

Don't worry about things you don't have enough information about. These will make sense in time. However, all of the information that we received in the first two seasons have been filtered through at least one of the survivors so it is consistently from their perspective whether on the island or before. Be aware that their memories have been altered in some cases and for good reasons. Their memories may be misleading but their actions will always tell the truth. Also, the others are maintaining a false image all for the same purpose. Keep these things in mind and you will find many interesting things.

Don't worry about things you don't have enough information about. These will make sense in time. However, all of the information that we received in the first two seasons have been filtered through at least one of the survivors so it is consistently from their perspective whether on the island or before. Be aware that their memories have been altered in some cases and for good reasons. Their memories may be misleading but their actions will always tell the truth. Also, the others are maintaining a false image all for the same purpose. Keep these things in mind and you will find many interesting things.

Sorry, I'm not following what you said. Can you elaborate?

Memories altered? Do you know something we don't?

Sorry, I'm not following what you said. Can you elaborate?

Memories altered? Do you know something we don't?

No problem. I was just following up on your initial post about the possibility that events in the flashbacks may not all be real. I believe that this is the case. However, in order to explain why, I have to provide an explanation as to what I believe is going on. Very simply, I believe that the people on the island are there as part a mental health clinic and are taking part in a psychological treatment to help them overcome debilitating problems that have hindered them in being able to live a normal life. Their problems range in severity but in the most severe cases it preocupies their complete attention. In order to be able to participate they need to have a way of focusing on events that are currently happening and not be preocupied with the past. Before they can participate, their history and psychological profile are compiled. They are then induced into an amnesic state through some drugs (pseudo science) and are turned basically into a blank slate (Tabula Rasa). Then they are programmed through hypnosis or power of suggestion or whatever with the desired past memories. For the most part their memories are true to life but in some cases, in order to avoid traumatic memories, they are slightly altered. The trick is to find out what is real and what isn't. This requires doing an indepth study of their history and comparing them to events occuring in the present on the island. In order to figure out what is real and what isn't there needs to be a point of reference which can be trusted. This point of reference concerns their actions currently. These can be trusted. If their current actions contradict events in the past then their memories are suspect. All in all it's a big psychological mystery which can be deciphered given time and motivation.

I hope that this answers your question about the altered memories, at least from what I believe is taking place.

...about the possibility that events in the flashbacks may not all be real.Do you have any examples from the first two seasons where an event in a flashback might not have been real?

Do you have any examples from the first two seasons where an event in a flashback might not have been real?

I list a couple of examples in this thread. Jack's story (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=44734).

LostSanity, that sure is some heavy duty reading. I'll have to spend some time reading it more carefully, so I can't say I agree or disagree, but it sounds interesting.

I noticed todell arguing about the Cuse comment (any hallucination theory that ignores life-and-death consequences is not valid). To that I say, look at David Fury's comment. If David Fury's comment is no longer a valid statement, then I will no longer entertain any comment made by the TPTB.

I actually do believe David Fury's comment is still valid. I will just begin to use it against those who think the Fack scene was real.

LostSanity, that sure is some heavy duty reading. I'll have to spend some time reading it more carefully, so I can't say I agree or disagree, but it sounds interesting.

I noticed todell arguing about the Cuse comment (any hallucination theory that ignores life-and-death consequences is not valid). To that I say, look at David Fury's comment. If David Fury's comment is no longer a valid statement, then I will no longer entertain any comment made by the TPTB.

I actually do believe David Fury's comment is still valid. I will just begin to use it against those who think the Fack scene was real.

The two arguments that I get are:

1) When people die they really die.
2) It is not in someones head and it is not a hallucination.

For the first, the actual statement was:

"When someone dies on the island they stay dead. Their bodies do not come back to life." There is nothing that I ever said that would contradict this statement.

For the second, virtual reality is not in someones head and it is not a hallucination. There are many forms of virtual reality, not all have to be like the Matrix. If you ever were involved in a virtual reality activity you would most likely have put on goggles and gloves and interacted with a computer generated environment. There is no hallucination involved. If you take this to it's limit you can possibly imagine an island type environment. I do not pretend to know what it is that they have in mind but I would be willing to guess it is closer to science than airplane sucking magnets.

Personally I would not live and die by the what TPTB say since it is not their intention to clarify but to maintain the illusion. Whatever they say, can be interpreted in multiple ways and they count on the fact that people will interpret it in the most obvious way. I prefer to try to figure it out without their "help".

The two arguments that I get are:

1) When people die they really die.
2) It is not in someones head and it is not a hallucination.


Quotes from TPTB no less. Maybe they have strayed.


I do not pretend to know what it is that they have in mind but I would be willing to guess it is closer to science than airplane sucking magnets.


Now that's the making of a great signature, if ever I heard one!

Quotes from TPTB no less. Maybe they have strayed.


As I stated earlier, nothing that I have stipulated contradicts the literal interpretation of what TPTB said.

Well, I haven't posted on this theory for a while, but there are a few things coming up that I wanted to post on before they happen. In particular, what happens to Locke, Desmond, and Eko (and Charlie).

My current thinking goes like this: What if there are 2 "forces" on the island? One is some sort of transmission that can put people into a hypnotic state. And the second, is some sort of electromagnetic field that allows people to "hear" other peoples thoughts. I'll explain each in more detail:

1.) Hypnotic transmission - I think of this as something on the island transmitting a signal or something that either hypnotizes by itself, or puts people into the very relaxed/suggestive state that is required for hypnosis. If you then look at what happens when someone is hypnotized, you see some very relevant things to Lost. When a hypnotist hypnotizes someone, it is thought that they have created a direct connection to the person's subconscious mind. It's basically a way to bypass the conscious mind that usually blocks/controls subconscious thoughts. This is how a hypnotist is able to get people to do strange things (as can happen on a stage show). The hypnotist can suggest, for example, that there is a delicious bowl of ice cream sitting on a table in front of them (when there really is not). They can tell the person to taste the ice cream, and the person will do it. To them the ice cream is 'real'. And to them it actually tastes like it would if they were really eating it. This happens because the hypnotist has a direct connection to the subconscious mind. And, here's the important part, THE SUBCONSCIOUS MIND BELIEVES WHATEVER IT IS TOLD. That's important because of the second 'force' occurring on the island.

2.) Electromagnetic field - as I've stated earlier in this thread there have been studies to suggest that through magnetic fields, etc. it could be possible read someone's mind. So what if there is this type of field on the island, allowing people to read other people's minds (hear other people's thoughts)? Well, combine this with 'force #1' above and think about what happens.

Normally when a person is hypnotized it is in a controlled environment, meaning there is a hypnotist controlling the suggestions. But, what if (and this is what I think the premise of Lost is) you put people into a situation where they are hypnotized, but they don't know it. And, the 'suggestions' they receive are not from a hypnotist, they are from other peoples thoughts? Look what happens. Thoughts get crossed. And they are received as fact by the subconscious mind. Combine that with hypnotic 'hallucinations' and A LOT can be explained.

The reason I bring this up now is because I think we will be seeing soon what has happened to Locke, Desmond, Eko, and Charlie. We saw at the end of last season that Charlie had some sort of hearing loss due to the explosion of dynamite. I would assume Eko suffered an even greater hearing loss since he was closer (assuming he survived). Whether Locke and Desmond suffered any sort of hearing loss from turning the failsafe, who knows (or if they even survived). But, we do know Charlie was effected, and assuming Eko survived, he would be effected also. So what, right? Well, according to my theory, losing your hearing could potentially block 'force #1' above. Meaning that they might not be able hear the hypnotic signal anymore.

If this is the case, then I see 2 (maybe more) things that could happen. First, the EM field would still be in place, so I would assume they could still hear each others thoughts. Only now, they wouldn't be hearing them subconsciously, they would be hearing them consciously (possibly in the form of the whispers). Second, if they aren't hypnotized, then there should be no more hallucinations (for them). So, according to my idea that Hurley is not who he appears to be, I am interested to see him show up back at the beach (after his Other meeting). If Charlie's hearing loss is bad enough, I could see Hurley coming back, but now Charlie sees him as he really is. And so he wouldn't recognize him. Everyone would think Charlie has amnesia, or even THE SICKNESS. Either way I will be interested to see if there are any weird changes in the behaviour of these guys.

Oh well, enough for now. I have a wild idea about Sun from The Glass Ballerina, I'll have to post that later.

I think I will post my ideas for each episode starting with this season. I’m not necessarily stating things that I believe 100%, but I think of this more as a way to record my thoughts for future reference. That said, I may or may not be able to defend any idea. And for most people this is going to come across as complete nonsense. So I apologize, I just want to get a few ideas down.

A Tale of Two Cities

1.) Jack hearing his father’s voice over the “non-working” speaker. I can’t imagine anyone is thinking that Christian’s voice was “planted” so it would have to be Jack hallucinating.
2.) Kate about to take a shower and Zeke commenting “You’re not my type” after she says that she won’t shower in front of him. Either further evidence that Kate is really a man (her friend Tom) or Zeke is really a woman. I like the first idea better since I am not sure that I believe that the Others are really there.
3.) Sawyer seems to have changed. He has several cynical smirks like he suspects something. Makes an attempt at escape only to have Kate pull her “Oh, no, they captured me” routine AGAIN. What is that 3 times we’ve seen that?
4.) I notice Others appearing in strange places. For instance, Juliet is with Jack, and then the very next scene she is zapping Sawyer when he tries to escape. Not sure what to make of this, but here is one idea. What if they are outside of force #2, the EM field causing them to be able to hear each other’s subconscious thoughts? But maybe they can still hear the hypnotizing force, so they are still hallucinating. Let’s say the Others are all hallucinations. Then, without the collective thought process, different Losties could hallucinate the same thing (or person) in different places at the same time. Jack could hallucinate Juliet with him, while Sawyer could hallucinate Juliet catching him escaping. I’ve thought before that Kate could be in on whatever is going on. She seems to be acting weird, almost like she doesn’t know what is going on. Maybe she has lost her ability to manipulate Sawyer with her mind.

The Glass Ballerina

1.) Jin asks Sun why she came with them. I have thought that maybe Sun did not even come with Jin on Oceanic 815, and I’m starting to think it even more. Sun replies to Jin “You know why I came”. I think Sun came in Jin’s memory.
2.) Sun’s father seems to be following Sun. He finds her with Jae Lee in the beginning, then finds her again at his funeral. Also, the scene where Jin is getting into his car after roughing up Jae Lee, you can see Mr. Paik standing next to Jin’s car (at least from what I can tell). To me, this is a clue that Mr. Paik followed Sun to the hotel.
3.) I see a similarity between Sun and Sayid speaking in English (and hiding it from Jin) and Sun and Jae Lee speaking in English and (hiding it from Jin).
4.) I explain Sun being on the boat by herself (when the Others came) as she is not really there. Deep down Jin knows it doesn’t really matter that she is alone. I don’t think Jin and Sayid returned to the boat in order to save Sun, I think they returned to save the boat.
5.) Here’s my idea on Jae Lee falling to his death. I don’t think it was Jae Lee. I think Sun went to the hotel to warn Jae Lee that Jin was coming with a “message”. I think maybe she was in the room while Jin was “delivering the message”. Jin leaves. Sun emerges from hiding. She tries to give the pearl necklace back to Jae Lee (if in fact she took it before). Jae Lee is pissed. Reiterates that he will no longer “share” Sun with Jin, and pushes her off the balcony with necklace in hand. Sending quite a big message to Jin. But, I think Jin is refusing to believe (at least on the island) that she is dead. I think Sun is The Glass Ballerina.

Further Instructions

1.) My idea before was that Charlie’s impaired hearing from LTDA would somehow effect his perception of things. Possibly meaning no more hallucinations. I think it is safe to say that Charlie appears different. I think that Charlie is no longer “hypnotized” and therefore is seeing things as they really are. Hypnosis is sometimes compared to playing “make believe”. Almost like a hypnotized person knows the truth, but is playing along. I think Charlie was “playing along” while he was hypnotized, but is not anymore. Look at his scene with Claire in LTDA. He says “nothing happened” when Claire questioned him about the hatch. Nothing happened? Well, maybe nothing did happen.
2.) I created an island vs. flashback analogy:

Locke had created a nice little place for himself on the commune. He worked hard and felt needed by the others. He was comfortable in his position. One day he discovers that someone is threatening his way of life, his family. That someone is Eddie. Eddie is now capable of revealing what is hidden in the greenhouse, and ending Locke’s happiness. So, Locke takes Eddie on a “hunting” trip into the woods with the intention of removing him as a threat to his way of life. The question is, did he kill Eddie?

Now, I will replace “commune”, “Eddie”, and “greenhouse” with “island”, “Charlie” and “cave”:

Locke had created a nice little place for himself on the island. He worked hard and felt needed by the others. He was comfortable in his position. One day he discovers that someone is threatening his way of life, his family. That someone is Charlie. Charlie is now capable of revealing what is hidden in the cave, and ending Locke’s happiness. So, Locke takes Charlie on a “hunting” trip into the woods with the intention of removing him as a threat to his way of life. The question is, did he kill Charlie?

3.) Maybe those who are hypnotized can hear people speaking, plus they can “hear” subconscious thoughts. But, if Charlie can’t hear people speaking, then he can only “hear” subconscious thoughts. Maybe this is why Locke couldn’t talk. Maybe Locke is thinking consciously, so Charlie can’t “hear” him. If you think about it, it was only Charlie that Locke couldn’t speak to. Except, he did try to speak to Desmond. But I don’t have time to go into that here.
4.) Here’s an idea. Locke went into the sweat lodge to get into the subconscious state (how, I don’t know). As soon as he comes out, Charlie can hear him. Locke pulls out his knife and before taking Charlie, goes off into the woods. He kills a boar and makes “claw like” marks on it to give the appearance of “an active kill”. This is for Charlie’s benefit since he won’t just hallucinate what Locke wants. Charlie is very cynical that there is a bear, the hatch looks very similar to the way it looked when Boone and Locke first dug it up, and then Charlie has trouble hearing Locke at the cave. These are clues IMO. Question is, what happened at the cave? Was that Desmond’s suit in the cave? Could Boone now be Desmond? Don’t ask what I mean, not sure that I could explain it. Ugh, my head hurts.

Every Man for Himself

1.) First, the title. This is said by Sawyer to Kate. Evidence that Kate is a "he"? The title could have been "Everyone for Themself", but it wasn't. Ok, I'm stretching.

2.) I mentioned Jack in a previous episode hearing his father's voice on the broken speaker. I think that had to be a hallucination, from his subconscious. Now he hears Sawyer screaming when the "pacemaker" is implanted. A lot of people have now said, "Oh, the speaker works, Christian must be on the island." But, of course I say, the speaker is still broken, and Jack can hear Sawyer subconsciously.

3.) Charlie uses the term "Brutha" when talking to Desmond. That really got me thinking. Could someone have taken Charlie's place? As I said before I wondered if Locke did something to Charlie. Could someone else be playing the role of Charlie? Desmond seemed to be acting a lot like Locke. Could characters be switching "roles"? Were Locke and Eko in this episode?

4.) I think Desmond wanted to gain the trust of Claire and Charlie for some reason. I think he made up the broken roof problem, knowing Charlie would not let him fix it. Then he set up a lightning rod and thought up the rain/lightning. This would make Charlie and Claire trust what Desmond thinks in the future.

5.) Juliet tells Jack the woman who died was named, Coll, short for Colleen. That sounded weird. I don't remember anyone calling her Coll. So like a good Lost fan I stuck "Coll Pickett" into an anagram finder. Didn't find much, except "Tell Cockpit". I thought that sounded cool.

6.) I think of all people on the island, I would hate to be Sun. Zeke knows Sun shot Colleen, so I'm sure Pickett knows. He messed up Sawyer pretty bad just because he was one of the Losties. I hate to think what he would do to Sun if he finds her. Then I hate to think what Jin would do to every Other!

I'm glad you're writing a bit for each episode this season! Interesting ideas, though I admit I laughed at your theory about Kate being a man. :)

Well, I dug this up from deepest, darkest depths of theorydom.

I basically stopped watching Lost in Season 3 (just busy I guess, and started losing interest). For some reason I started watching this season, even though I have missed a lot. The reason for my post here though is to record my thoughts for what happened in The Constant. I have never given up on this theory, but not having seen a bunch of episodes, maybe it has been proven incorrect.

This is my recount of what I saw in The Constant, and how it fits with this theory.

What we saw in The Constant was “consciousness time travel” into the future, not the past. There’s a big difference, especially on the implications of what we saw. Desmond’s 1996 conscious thoughts have “time traveled” into his 2004 (on the freighter) body. Of course by “time travel” I mean more like a dream. A lucid dream, maybe. It is really just his recollection of thoughts from 1996, but in a real (to him) lucid manner. His subconscious is still aware that he is on the freighter. Therefore, when we see him in 1996, he subconsciously knows that he is still on the freighter. His conscious state is bouncing back and forth between 1996 and 2004. And, without a Constant, he cannot determine which conscious state accurately represents his physical state.

This also confirms that what we sometimes see as a viewer, is only taking place in a character’s head. If Desmond’s 1996 conscious is occupying his 2004 body, then the scenes showing him in 1996 are from within his head (in 2004). Not 1996.

This also explains how no paradox will occur. When his 1996 conscious occupies his 2004 body, he has the ability to change the 1996 events. However, changing events in this state will have no impact on what actually occurred in 1996.

I also didn’t post to challenge anyone. I am using this more of as way to record my thoughts.

lost2009! :biggrin: I've missed your posts...and just have to welcome you back before even reading your latest post in entirety...

I like the theory.

Ever see the channel 4 (UK) Lost "dance" commercial?

Weirdest thing ever. The Losties look drugged up and are dancing near the flaming flight 815 wreckage.... More interesting is what is being said in the background...Each one of the Losties says some thing like:" One of us is a con man" "One of us is a junkie" "One of us is a liar" But it's not Sawyer saying the con man line, or Charlie nor Sun. It's all mixed up, the dancing partners are strange and the make up on the ladies is just plain...bizarre. The comercial ends with something like "will they ever find themselves"...or something. For some strange reason, I cant find the link.

But your theory fits along the line of S2. "They arent the survivors they think they are."
With the eppy The Constant, perhaps when the plane entered the EM field and got caught in the same type storm as Lapidus did, the survivors consciousness got mixed up?

Like you suggest, perhaps Hurley isnt the one we are seeing on screen. Same as other characters. Let's see where else you take this.

Eric

Well, if I happen to be correct, I don't want to ruin the fun for other people who want to look for clues.

But, I'll throw out another since you asked.

Hurley -

It seemed strange to me that Charlie would make a comment that Hurley didn't appear to be losing weight after X number of days. Why would you put that into a script unless it is a clue. Also, when he goes in search of Danielle (I just saw that episode last night) he steps on a trap which will swing a giant ball of sharp branches at him as soon as he steps off. Jack, Charlie, (and I forget who else was there) all yell something like, "Don't move!". And Hurley says, "No, I can do it, I'm nimble". Sure, and I look like Brad Pitt. And then, here's the kicker, he crosses the rope bridge without breaking it, yet Charlie falls through. Seems strange right? Well, what if "Hurley" is really not as big as he appears. What if he is actually his SKINNY friend (played by DJ Qualls). It would explain the weird statements above. So, maybe it was DJ Qualls character on the plane, and he wishes it was him who won the lottery. So, when the plane crashes, he assumes Hurley's identity.

I'm going out on a limb with the last part, but there seem to be a lot of clues that Hurley is really not as big as he appears. This would add a whole new dimension to an already great show. And might explain why this forum places such a great emphasis on the character forums (as opposed to the theory forums, like most others). I think this show is really about who the Lostaways really are. The more time that goes by, the more their true identities are becoming lost.


As far as HURLEY goes. If you've noticed, Hurley had bad luck before he came to the Island, now, everything goes Hurley's way. Hurley has done several amazing things and comes out great. I predict Hurley will be saving the day in the end!

As far as HURLEY goes. If you've noticed, Hurley had bad luck before he came to the Island, now, everything goes Hurley's way. Hurley has done several amazing things and comes out great. I predict Hurley will be saving the day in the end!

Yes, and since his luck turned, the numbers disappeared or vice versa. He seems to be on the path of finding himself.

Well, I dug this up from deepest, darkest depths of theorydom.

I
[FONT=Arial]What we saw in The Constant was “consciousness time travel” into the future, not the past. There’s a big difference, especially on the implications of what we saw. Desmond’s 1996 conscious thoughts have “time traveled” into his 2004 (on the freighter) body. Of course by “time travel” I mean more like a dream. A lucid dream, maybe. It is really just his recollection of thoughts from 1996, but in a real (to him) lucid manner. His subconscious is still aware that he is on the freighter. Therefore, when we see him in 1996, he subconsciously knows that he is still on the freighter. His conscious state is bouncing back and forth between 1996 and 2004. And, without a Constant, he cannot determine which conscious state accurately represents his physical state.

This also confirms that what we sometimes see as a viewer, is only taking place in a character’s head. If Desmond’s 1996 conscious is occupying his 2004 body, then the scenes showing him in 1996 are from within his head (in 2004). Not 1996.

This also explains how no paradox will occur. When his 1996 conscious occupies his 2004 body, he has the ability to change the 1996 events. However, changing events in this state will have no impact on what actually occurred in 1996.

I also didn’t post to challenge anyone. I am using this more of as way to record my thoughts.

Challenge on! I love new ideas, but I agree with you here. I believe this IS what the writers are trying to show with Desmond. Mind not body travel.
I vote for Hurley. I think he will be the hero in the end.

Openly, I hope Locke's the man of the Island.

Secretly, I hope Hurley's the key to their finding their true selves. ;)

Eric

lost2009! :biggrin: I've missed your posts...and just have to welcome you back before even reading your latest post in entirety...

Tabby, thanks! You know, I posted here over 2 months ago, and I am now just finding time to come back (sort of). I started my own business a couple of years ago, and it has now become VERY popular. I'm pulling my hair out trrying to keep up with demand (but I keep telling myself that is a good thing).

Anyway, I am behind a few episodes (I think, can't even remember), but hopefully I can catch up soon.

Eric, I remember that commercial, and I agree it fits right in here.

This (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/jane_eris/Solitary/Dance.jpg) might make a good metaphor (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/jane_eris/Solitary/MirrorBox.jpg) for the Island dance (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/jane_eris/Solitary/Dancing.jpg).