I'm guessing she killed her Dad. The Army Pilot.

More history episodes needed to understand Kate. :)

Are we sure that the envelope from the bank is the same as the briefcase? I'd have hoped that a safety deposit box would hold something of more significance.

Maybe the air marshall was her husband???

I think the envelope in the safe deposit box was different ... surely she didn't go through that whole Maggie routine in the bank for a little plastic plane???

And I think there was something between her and the marshal - maybe not husband/wife, but some type of romance.

I think the envelope in the safe deposit box was different ... surely she didn't go through that whole Maggie routine in the bank for a little plastic plane???

And I think there was something between her and the marshal - maybe not husband/wife, but some type of romance.


She lied to Jack and he bought it. I think it is something more serious the killing a lover.

I agree that this might have had something to do with her Dad. I might be mistaken (probably am, actually), but I believe the toy plane was a model of a 1930's-era military plane.

Anyone here an airplane expert??

It may seem like such a small thing to rob a bank for. But when something has a LARGE sentimental value, and you think it's the only way to get it. Plus she DID say "I said no-one gets hurt!" So, all she really wanted was the airplane.

I don't think she was related in anyway to the marshall, otherwise I think their interaction when he was injured and dying would have been much different. Sometimes I think we just want there to be previous connections between characters that aren't there =P But speculating is still fun.

And I'm watching Alias now (for the first time!), and the music is SO similar =P

I laughed so hard when I read the title of this topic, because towards the end of the ep, I said the same exact thing. I was like, so wait... we know...pretty much nothing now? Sonofa... I was like, ok so we know she's robbed a bank. She knows HOW to scout and plan a robbery, which makes me think she's had training in such things... She most obviously knows how to fire a gun and appears to be an expert marksman at that. Makes her making Sayid explain how to take apart one that much more interesting, lol.

And did the plane change? Or was it just me? When she pulled it out with Jack, it looked distinctly like the Oceanic plane. But when she was looking at it by the fire, it appeared to be a fighter plane from the 30's. If I wasn't the only one who saw this, then you know this is a plant for something...

So I think we have to piece together what they showed us...and what they didn't. For example, we're assuming that Kate staged the bank robbery to get to the plane, but it's possible she thought the safe deposit box contained something else...she may have not even known about the plane until she pulled it out of the box. She might have thought something more important was in there. Also, in the Haliburton case, the plane was in an envelope marked "personal effects." If the marshall arrested her due to the bank robbery, it would have been marked "evidence." Come to think of it, if the marshall arrested her for murder, the plane should have been marked "evidence" too, as it could provide motive. So maybe she was being extradited for a totally different thing. Finally, if the person Kate killed that she loved was her father, why wouldn't she (as his legal heir) have access to his safe deposit box (doesn't a safe deposit box become part of the estate after the owner dies)? This is driving me nuts :)

LOL, why are poeple assuming she knew what was in the box?

Maybe the airplane wasn't what she got out of the safety deposit box.....maybe it's a different thing altogether.

Jessica

I thought her dad was a US Army Ranger. :-\

My feeling from the beginning was that Kate's crime was a mercy killing, probably of a parent. Now I believe it was her father. The plane could have been something of sentimental value possibly put there by her mother who may not have wanted Kate to have it after what she did.

"Personal effects" is usually what they label the belongings of a dead person. That in and of itself seems to be some sort of clue....

Good Withay!
The way they like to play with double meanings in titles and lines and objects in the show -

The "personal effects" are evidentiary perhaps in her arrest for homicide?

I think the personal effects are the items she had on her when the marshal caught her in Austrailia. There would be no need for him to carry evidence from her case everywhere he went, and also, I don't think as a marshal he'd have access to it. It would be with all the rest of the evidence and records from her trial (or preparations for her trial if she escaped before it happened). Marshals don't try cases right? They just transport and track down criminals?

That said I agree with the person that said that envelope was likely not the same one she took from the safety deposit box. The arguement makes sense, and also, that's exactly the type of thing this show would do.

I also think she killed her dad, accidentally, and the plane is some sort of reminder of him.

I agree that this might have had something to do with her Dad.* I might be mistaken (probably am, actually), but I believe the toy plane was a model of a 1930's-era military plane.

Anyone here an airplane expert??*


No, but I know toys! And if it's old, it would have been metal and Kate's plane looks pretty plastic to me through the screen of my old-*** tv!

... Also, in the Haliburton case, the plane was in an envelope marked "personal effects." If the marshall arrested her due to the bank robbery, it would have been marked "evidence." Come to think of it, if the marshall arrested her for murder, the plane should have been marked "evidence" too, as it could provide motive. ...

I don't think that's anything important. I think that the marshall would mark anything she had on her as "personal effects" because he does not yet know whether any of it is actual evidence in her case.

I don't think the plane was evidence at all to the bank robbery. I wouldn't be surprised whatever she was going after in the envelope was that of her father's that she was told about before she killed him (assuming she did). I believe that she didn't know what was in depoist box, but she thought it was something worth robbing a bank for. I think she would of been satisfied with jewels or whatever, but I think that once she got the little model airplane, that's when the guilt trip came about and she took off to find a new life. And to be honest...Lilly acted very surprised to see this plane, so maybe she never opened the envelope until now.

My true theory: We did see Kate in action with the guns and it's safe to say she's pretty good. I think that she's an Army brat turned special forces because of her father...and she was responsible for her father's final mission before retirement. She was the leader, something went bad, and her father was killed in action and she's had this gulit trip. Somehow, she turned into a life of crime looking for this depoist box. And she has been hiding because she's not just a bank robber, but she's wanted for murder during her time with the Armed Forces. "She's Dangerous.." Indeed.

I think a third episode before the season is over would be very nice because there's a still a crap load of questions, and just theories right now...I just hope the third episode resolves the Kate character going into the second season.

-Who was the man she loved and killed? (More than likely her father)?
-What was the model airplane of? (The same plane her father flew in the armed forces)?
-Did Kate know Sawyer and the U.S. Marshall waaay before the plane crash (I think we can make the connection with Kate/Sawyer and the killing of parents...but I still believe that the Marshall might have been romantically linked with Kate, but not the "Man she loved."

I think that's all the questions really about Kate that I can think of. I thought it was a good episode, but again...it seems like all these episodes they answer one question, and ask about five more. It comes to the point where I wonder if they throw in so much that they are actually going to have the time and effort to go back and answer them.

Or, did she both love and kill a man? Or was the "it belonged to the man I loved" the lie to Jack and 'it belonged to the man I killed" was the truth? I feel like whatever the marshal was tracking her for wasn't the bank robbery - that she did something else and she was already on the run.

Okay NOW im confused, the main question to me is....who is the man she killed? Her father? The guy she shot in the leg, was that her boyfriend,,,could she of killed him...and the flashbacks just didnt show it? Cause he said that if she didnt kill him, hed do something to her...or it was something like that, im confused, help me!

I think where your confusion starts is this. The man she used to help her rob the bank... was not her boyfriend. She conned him into thinking she cared about him so that he would help her rob the bank. She shot him in the leg, and he DID say that if she didn't kill him, he'd kill her. But somehow I think with being shot and all that, he didn't escape the bank in time before the police arrived. The man she loved/killed could be anyone, but right now the two strongest candidates are her father or a boyfriend/fiancee/husband. It's quiet possible she had a child, also, so... who knows.

feel like whatever the marshal was tracking her for wasn't the bank robbery - that she did something else and she was already on the run.


Exactly.

My true theory: We did see Kate in action with the guns and it's safe to say she's pretty good. I think that she's an Army brat turned special forces because of her father...and she was responsible for her father's final mission before retirement. She was the leader, something went bad, and her father was killed in action and she's had this gulit trip. Somehow, she turned into a life of crime looking for this depoist box. And she has been hiding because she's not just a bank robber, but she's wanted for murder during her time with the Armed Forces. "She's Dangerous.." Indeed.



Not to shoot down your theory but two quick points:
1. Women are not allowed in US Special Operations (and just fyi, Special Forces is only the Army - like my brother ;D)
2. Spec Ops troops burn out quickly and are active typically only 4-6 years.* I don't think there's any way her father could have still been an active Ranger when she was an adult.

But these are just the statements of a dumb blonde, so odds are they aren't correct*

The plane looked like a DC3 which was taken into the military during WW II As the C47. It was a transport plane. The US Army Air corps flew many of them so an army tie in is possible. However the age of anyone in WW II would make it more likely a souvenir of someone old enough to be Kate’s grandfather. But then it remained in service long after the war was over, I believe up into late 60's early 70's? I think that whoever died, died as a result of something she did - not because she pulled the trigger etc. Remember that in the bank she shot to wound, not kill and had stated that no one was to be hurt by the robbery. Someone up above said guilt trip. That is also my take. I don't think we have the real story yet but I also don't think Kate lied. I think the plane has extreme sentimental value for her.

I agree with a lot of the posts on this thread. World War II or post-war vintage plane. Could have been flown by her father, though, if he flew planes perhaps as a young man. I certainly remember prop planes like that into the 60s and perhaps the 70s (depends on how old Kate's dad is/was).

That little plane means a lot to her, or she wouldn't have taken it all the way from New Mexico to Australia.

She feels responsible for her father's death, and maybe indeed have killed him. that doesn't mean it was homicide, though.

She's kick-*** in a lot of ways, and good at manipulating bad guys, obviously. Not unlike Sydney Bristow... I suspect she's a Sydney type character, but since we're outside of her point of view most of the time, we simply don't know it yet.

The guys she shot in the bank deserved every bullet, by the way. Way to go, Kate.

Templeton

Another thing we have to think about is was Kate in Aussie land because she had to get away...or was it by choice?

Maybe the next piece of her puzzle comes when we find out what she was doing down under.