I think the obvious person is her father, further linking her to Jack. Who had to turn on his father also.

I agree. What did she say to jack? Was is "a man I loved" or "the man I loved"?

I think it was THE so I don't think it was her father

I think the obvious person is her father, further linking her to Jack.* Who had to turn on his father also.*


I think i may just have to agree with you. *I mean, first whos the one person who taught her how to use a gun..her daddy, second whos the one that was in the military...her daddy, whos the one that made it a religion to go hunting...her daddy. *I think that it was a hunting accident that she killed her own father

Whoever it was, Kate is obviously well-trained. She's been running around saying "I can take care of myself", well, I believe her. She took those three guys out, with precision shots to non-lethal areas, before they could blink. She knows how to shoot...and shoot WELL.

Trained killer for a CIA-esque organization, my opinion. ;D

Figure out why someone she loved so much would leave a toy airplane in a safety deposit box in a *bank in New Mexico with her not on the signatory card to allow her access to it.......I suspect whoever he was was some kind of criminal, and I'm definitely warming up to the idea she was some kind of undercover cop/ federal agent. *

I also think it was her father, but perhaps she did not do it directly. Maybe he was killed doing something for her and not she feels that it was her fault. Does that make sense?

I also think she is an undercover something.

We only have word for it that the airplane is what she was looking for. She definitely lied about a number of things, why are we believing her on this one?[

Did anyone else notice that Kate was very handy with a gun
not just one but a crack shot with two
looks like she was trained in the use of fire arms to me.
Maybe at one time she was a Marshall and the other guys partner.

I think she is referring to killing her Father or Brother (one loved) by her actions of not successfully getting the toy plane out of the deposit box without getting away with it. *I'm also assuming that the Marshall was after her for what happened in the bank not the result of her loved one being killed by who she feels was her fault. *Marshall could have been after her for something unrelated to the Bank otherwise the airplane would have been evidence and not personal effects.

What if, Kate is an undercover agent of sorts and she fell in love with one of the criminals that she was going undercover to help expose and some situation caused her to kill him. *I like the father idea more. *It's romantic and does explain her hard character. I also wonder if she might be a con-artist who picked up all her skills from her father.

The marshal on the plane with here seemed to know her rather well.
I meant maybe she was his partner and she went bad and he had to track her down to bring her back. Not many detainees traveling back to face a criminal trial know just what the Marshal escorting them home is carrying in the case.
She knew, wepons ,amo and all.

The marshal on the plane with here seemed to know her rather well.
I meant maybe she was his partner and she went bad and he had to track her down to bring her back. Not many detainees traveling back to face a criminal trial know just what the Marshal escorting them home is carrying in the case.
She knew, wepons ,amo and all.


Good point, She knew what was in the case.....the Marshall wouldn't just let her know that there were weapons and ammunition in it. Ok, maybe she could guess there was a gun in it, but not 4 guns and boxes of ammunition.

Good point, She knew what was in the case.....the Marshall wouldn't just let her know that there were weapons and ammunition in it.* *Ok, maybe she could guess there was a gun in it, but not 4 guns and boxes of ammunition.*


My first thought when they opened the case was that those were the guns from the robbery - which means the case would belong to her, not the marshal. Maybe the plane was someone else's "personal effect" (like maybe the man she loved and then killed) - ties in to the theory that she was some type of undercover agent. And yet the big picture of what's going on still seems way over my head, somehow...

Ok, here's what I'm thinking. Kate and Daddy went hunting. He somehow died on the hunting trip, whether by her hand or not. Though if it was her, I'd say it had to be accidental. She was probably young, so let's say her mother (who we don't hear very much about, btw, other than the sinking story) blames her, even though everyone has accpeted it as an accident. So Kate feels like she is at fault because that's what her mother makes her feel. I'm betting that her mother wouldn't let her have the plane, and it may have been the only thing she wanted of her dad's. Her mother put it in a safe deposit box and didn't put her on the signatory card. She managed to get the key, but had no way to get the plane. She goes out and becomes a US Marshall. She ends up with 'the marshall' as her partner. What he doesn't know is that the only reason she became a US Marshall was to get the training she would need to get into that bank and get the deposit box, without getting caught. Once the bank scene went awry, he figured it out and made it his personal job to bring in his partner. Hence why when she told him her story, he probably believed her and it helped him let his guard down just enough to give her a chance to escape.

You know... or not. *;)

Maybe the plane was someone else's "personal effect" (like maybe the man she loved and then killed) -


Yeah, the envelope didn't say it belonged to her.....Maybe it was someone else's.

Jessica

What waywardwanderer suggested is the exactly the same thing I (and my family) was thinking, although I expected to find out that Kate was an ex-Marshall in this ep rather than having to wait (why would I think that? LOL).

The only thing that I can't fit is what the deal with the toy plane is. *It's an older model plane, so if we follow this theory, I suppose it was her father's ... but I'm not sure about the significance. *(Was her father Air Force?) *Perhaps after his death which was blamed on her, she was cut out of the family, explaining why she couldn't access the deposit box.

I'm not quite convinced about the hunting accident death theory, although I do agree that it seems like she may have inadvertantly killed her father due to the military background in WA she mentioned. *(However, I think she said that the plane belonged to someone she was in love with, which made me think of it in terms of a lover, not a relative...?)* None of this is spoiler because I have no idea!

n



*

Here' s a question: Kate said to Jack that the marshall had to check the plane. But when her and Sawyer found the case (and btw, sawyer is freaking hot and should have more shirtless and wet scenes :lol2:) it appeared to be under the dead people's seat. Who were they?

Well the case under the seat is either a script continuity problem or - Kate is lying again.

As much as this episode seemed disjointed and disappointing - I'd put it down to the former.

Hmmm....
Was gonna say It could just be the same case that hit the Marshall's head... but then I looked over that episode and I'm wrong. Just htought I'd post that incase anyone thought of that too.

Wow a toy plane...coincedence?

I think she killed her husband. But I dont think she killed him directly. More like blaming herself for his death, saying its her fault hes dead.

Which brings up the question...who WAS kate? That whole set up had to take ages. She had to find a bank robber, assimilate into his world, successfully have him believe she was someone else, plan the intial attack, and then also plan a counter one.

I would think she is someone already in the world of crime, or worked in Law enforcement.

Either way i get a sort of vengance crime vibe from her in the flashback sequence.

I think the luggage fell out of the plane and that couple's seat just fell on top of it.

I like the theories on Kate being a former marshal or something official. And the marshal being her former partner. Her dad was an army ranger, which is one of the most elite military forces. It would make sense she would go into some sort of military of government position too. Probably her dad taught her how to shoot though.

What is interesting is that even the theives didn't trust her. She set them up completely, and gave them such an extreme task just so she could get in that box. (Maybe it was a Rimbaldi artifact, and she used to work with Sidney Bristow... hmmm Sidney/Sydney... LOL) But still. "Kate" since now we still don't know what if that's really her name, must've lied to everyone in the hiking group when she claimed not to know how to unload the gun. Her performance was almost identical to the one in the bank when she claimed not to know how to fire or turn off the safety even with very clear instructions. She has proven herself to be a very talented liar, seductress and thief, but one who still has an odd sort of code of honor.

I think she probably killed her dad too. By accident though, or by unfortunate circumstance. Either or a coworker she loved, while in the line of duty.

Remember the marshall told her on the plane 'not to worry', because he believed her story. He could of said it sarcastically, but I sensed a bit of truth in it, almost as if he might have had something to do with whatever it was. ???

This is really picky (it drove me momentarily nuts!), but did anyone else notice that when Kate saw the briefcase for the first time, she opened her mouth in happy shock?* If you do that underwater you're going to get a mouthful.

n

Here's another piece of clue that might contribute to the father theory. When bank manager said she would need 2 keys to open the safe box, she showed the customer key. The manager said if you already have the customer key, why all the trouble. She said she's not on the signatory list, meaning she's not allowed by power of attorney or something like that. So I'm guessing she's not on the signatory list because her family doesn't want her to know something. It might well be something like a will of her father's, or a secret about her father or family that she's not supposed to know yet. It might be as trivial as she was adopted, or as complex as she indirectly made her dad die in WWII. (eg. the toy plane)

Okay...

Do we know 100% that the plane was in the deposit box?

Could the deposit box contain something else entirely?

Just sayin'

Okay...

Do we know 100% that the plane was in the deposit box?

Could the deposit box contain something else entirely?

Just sayin'


No, we don't know it was the plane in the sd box.

I'm puzzling this out a little, bfavre444: she indirectly made her dad die in WWII.

WWII was before I was born and I am way, way older than Kate. In fact, if someone was 20 when WWII was over, then they would be 80 in 2005. That seems to be a little old for Kate's father, don't ya think?

Well the case under the seat is either a script continuity problem or - Kate is lying again.

I vote for "lying again" -- I guess that the case was under the seat in front of the marshal, and those were the seats in the pool of water. She told Jack that it was checked, but not when Sawyer was there to protest. A somewhat dangerous game, counting on Jack's and Sawyer's animosity to prevent them from comparing stories.

I think the obvious person is her father, further linking her to Jack. Who had to turn on his father also.


I agree that most likely it was her father.

I can't buy the father theory. Who refers to their father as "the man I loved?"

I think she is lying again. The woman is full of lies.

I like the idea that Kate had the formal training of a US Marshall. It seems like a plausible idea to me that maybe she was involved with one of the other Marshalls (maybe even her partner) and something went sour while they were on duty.

But the plane?? I don't get it. I bet she was crying because she expected something ELSE to be in the envelope. Or maybe this was a sort of scavenger hunt that someone sent her on. She thought the plane was at the end, but really with was just another hint to the next clue. What was she chasing?

Also, remember when she first saw the marshall in Austrailia? He pulled up alongside the farmers car and pretended to shoot at her with his fingers. He was mocking her. It didn't seem like he was very supportive of her cause.

I feel like Kate has been living in a world of lies for so long, even she's not sure of what the truth is.

<<<
Or maybe this was a sort of scavenger hunt that someone sent her on. She thought the plane was at the end, but really with was just another hint to the next clue. What was she chasing?
>>>

I like that idea.* She might have received the key as a previous clue but had to find a way to get past the signatory requirement.

It would explain why the plane is so important to her if it is the next clue to some kind of mystery scavenger hunt.* Then she was caught by the Marshall before she could investigate the plane clue.* Kate being the x partner of the marshall or a marshall gone bad would work with this theory.* Would explain why he somewhat believed her story and why he went all the way to Australia to capture/track her.

Perhaps she had to go bad in order to rescue her lover (i.e. *the man I loved* comment) because someone she had captured/foiled in the past kidnapped him as some kind of morbid revenge scenario then made her go on the mystery scavenger hunt (which has the delightful side effect of making her look extra guilty) in order to rescue him. The past tense of her *the man I loved* comment could be her assuming that her lover is dead because she was unable to complete the mystery scavenger hunt due to being caught during the robbery. It would also explain why she didn't have signing authority and why she was in Australia in the first place.

I agree that Kate has had some training (whether government, military, etc) but I'm still not sure about the father thing. I mean it would completely make sense.....she kills him by accident, family hates her, she wants the plane...yada yada...but I'm still stuck on THE man I loved....makes me think husband, or long term boyfriend....but I mean its kate, she could have been lying when she said that...but something makes me want to believe her....that the plane really DOES belong to the man she loved and killed....

I'm telling you...more and more I think Kate worked with Sydney at the CIA...and shes on a Rambaldi chase as well....I'm just waiting for her to be playing with the plane then suddenly smash it open to reveal a tiny piece of parchment with the rambaldi eye on it, lol jk sorry

It's entirely possible that the Marshal is/was her father.* She did kill him in a sense...he wouldn't have been on that plane if not for her.* I know it's reaching, but can't help but wonder.

Anyway she has to have been in law enforcement.* The way she handled herself with the robbers and the guns.* Also, I have a brother that's a Marshal and you have to do more than shoot 3 thugs and steal an evelope for the US Marshall's office to deem you worthy of a reward.* It wasn't alot of money, but still.* My brother flies and excorts prisoners all the time, but never as far as Australia.* Someone would have to a be big time bad criminal for that.* (Or be a cop killer)

If the Marshal isn't her father, then he was definitely at one time, her partner or superior.

When Kate and the Marshal were on the plane and he told her maybe someone would believe her story............didn't he say, "I know I sure did?"

And then while Jack was operating on him....didn't he say, "She got to you too, didn't she."

Can someone verify that for me? I'm working on a theory...........