Did anyone notice if it was the same type of plane in Claires dream? Seems to be a few of these little models running around, no?

Did anyone notice if it was the same type of plane in Claires dream? Seems to be a few of these little models running around, no?


I don't think so but take a look for yourself
Claires Dreams:
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=66&pos=6
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=66&pos=7
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=66&pos=8

Kates Toy Plane:
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=129&pos=13
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=129&pos=14

Hard to tell, all of Claires are in motion. I will have to recheck the epi where I can pause.

Definitly not, Claires was Oceanic

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=100&pos=22

Hard to tell, all of Claires are in motion. I will have to recheck the epi where I can pause.


I just took a quick look at the Episode i have on my pc and its not the same. *Its actually a miniture size plane of the Oceanic plane that they were in

I'd just like to add that the first time we see Kate's plane, I do believe it IS an Oceanic looking plane. Only later when she is by the fire do we see the fighter plane. VERY interesting...

wayward: didn't notice that, wish I'd taped the ep so I could check!

I posted this elsewhere, but her toy plane looks like a fighter plane from the '30's, maybe a DC-10? (I'm just guessing, I really know nothing about planes.

My guess is the plane will have something to do with her father. Think we'll have to wait until next season to find out?

My guess is the plane will have something to do with her father.* Think we'll have to wait until next season to find out?


What branch of the military did she say her dad was in?

Alane

There was a number designation on the wing of Kate's plane. Did anyone see what it was? I thought it said '525'.

Possibly there is something inside the little plane of great value. A diamond? A secret message would seem a little too much to me, and not coherent with Kate's backstory thus far.

Recall that Kate lies whenever she thinks she can. She told Jack the bag had been checked, but that was clearly false, since it was under a seat (presumably the seat in front of the Marshal). So why should we believe that her story about the plane belonging to "the man she loved, the man she killed" is true, or at least the whole truth? Why did this guy put it in a safe-deposit box, if it was just of sentimental value? Would have to be some powerful sentiment for her to set up a violent robbery just to be able to swoon over it. If that is true, then she is really psychotic.

On the other hand, if they aren't going to be rescued, a diamond won't be of much value unless they come across some glass that needs cutting.

There was a number designation on the wing of Kate's plane.* Did anyone see what it was? I thought it said '525'.


http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=129&pos=13
Is this what your looking for

What branch of the military did she say her dad was in?

Alane


Quote from Lost Kate talking to Jack during Episode 11
"My dad was in the army. Ranger battalion, we were stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington State"

I would put money on the fact that the plane was not what she expected to find in that envelope. Maybe a taunt by the person who took what was in the box?

Kate's plane looks to be a model of a DC3, also known as a Dakota

i just posted this in another thread...

ok, we all know there's a number on the plane's wing 5025 and it does appear that the envie with the plane is the same single envie in the safety deposit box from it's shape/size/coloring

Now I'm guessing the envelope still contained everything she got from the box, even if it means there's something else in the envie beyond the plane... if not the number on the wing could be the entire reason for the robbery.

I think there's a few possible reasons why she was acting so suspicious about getting the case back... either for other info that's still in the envie she has or she expected more to be in the case, such as a case file against her, so with that not being there she'd be awfully relieved that the info won't come out on the island... but it could still be around.

now as to the marshall.... We know he supposedly believed a story Kate fed him and felt betrayed by her based on his lines to her in the plane. At first I thought it was because she came off as an innocent victim and eventually he found out she was a key player in the robbery/crime. But what about if he was in on something with her and she ran whether he believes:
she conned him and the plane is worthless when it isn't there was supposed to be more in the safe deposit box and she ran when there wasn't so her secret accomplices wouldn't get her for coming back with nothing because that envie with the plane is worth everything and she took off with it
Any of those could be a reason for why he despised her so much and distrusts her. Not finding a case file could confirm for her that he really was the bad guy she believed and that he wasn't taking her into custody, so no guilt over his death, etc.

I doubt she was after the case to keep anything of value, more to hide her secrets... obviously Sawyer and others didn't know of her being a criminal of some kind... only Hurley and Jack saw her mug shot, so it's understandable that if she wanted the plane and/or documents within the case that she'd not want anyone else knowing she had things in it... but the only reason to keep trying to hide it from Jack, imho would be cause she expected more info in there. Why else hide the key she lifted from the wallet? If she'd just shown it to him righth away when they dug up the marshall then he'd have built back a little trust/not lost so much. And if all she took was an envie with a toy plane he'd have been curious but not so suspicious since she provided the most trustworthy survivor to give the guns to.

I doubt that the plane was the thing she got from the safety deposit box. Same envolpe it seems, but I don't think that the plane was in the envolpe originally.

Here's why. If we go by the theory that whoever owned the box was very close to Kate (she loved him, and she had access to the key) and she killed him, then the murder must have been covered up/nobody knows about it.

If someone dies, the bank is presented with a death cert. by the executor (either next of kin or state) and will instruct the bank to open the box, if only to look for a will. So if the person who owned the box was dead, then the bank probably would have known about it and the box would have been "drilled" open. With all contents listed for legal reasons.

I doubt that Kate would have killed the person she loved, covered it up, stole his key, then done an elaborate plan that involved many people, just to get a model plane.

That being said, Kait knew what was in the case, so why be so secret about a model plane? She could have just taken it. Who cares about a model plane, she could have easily claimed it from whoever open the case, they would have cared about the guns and ammo.

So the only thing is that somewhere, somehow, whatever WAS in that envolpe was switched by the Marshall. B/C he was the only one with the key.

I think we need to figure out who the safety deposit box belonged to. There must be a reason why someone would put a toy plane in an evelope and store it there. Why did Kate want it so badly that she would arrange a bank robbery just to get to it?

I don't think the marshall switched what was in the envelope. Whatever was in the safety deposit box was small and bulky. Kate did not act like what Jack handed her was not what she was expecting. You'd think she would have been surprised, angry or upset but there was nothing.

Does anyone remember what the number of the safe deposit box was?

I keep thinking about Sawyer saying there's no lock he couldn't pick. And he didn't put up much resistance when Jack came for the case. What if he had already opened it, taken out "whatever" and closed it up again? That would explain Kate's surprise that only the little plane was in there. Hmmm. (just thinking)

If someone dies, the bank is presented with a death cert. by the executor (either next of kin or state) and will instruct the bank to open the box, if only to look for a will.* So if the person who owned the box was dead, then the bank probably would have known about it and the box would have been "drilled" open.* With all contents listed for legal reasons.*

It doesn't mean the bank will do it.* After my dad died, my mom had to practically fight the bank.* She had to produce time and time and time and time again his death certificate. >:(* So, having gone through it, I understood why KATE may have chosen the heist to get to the box.* While I personally would never do that, I understood.* Banks and Credit Unions are not always trustworthy and willing to help.* Been there. Done that. Own the souviener cup and shirt.* Maybe she tried to produce the death certificate (assuming is was a lover or her father) and she had to fight the bank time and time again for whatever it was in that box, sentimental or otherwise.* Maybe she got fed up fighting with the bank, that she decided to fight back.* There's more to her story than we saw last night.* While I'd like to see some more back stories on the other characters, I am interested in knowing who KATE killed, why, and the significance of that little plane.* What was it that was so significant that she would risk other people's lives for it?* It's important in some fashion, even if only to her.* But, I digress.* Don't assume that because you produce a death certificate to the bank means they will help.* My mom got so frustruated that she told the bank manager that she will go and dig up my dad's corpse if that is what it would take for them to believe her and have him try to sign the paper* >:((which would have been useless since HE'S DEAD!* *:'()* I'm just pointing this out because like I've said: been there and done that.

Thank God someone else thinks Sawyer got out 'whatever' Kate REALLY wanted out of that case before Jack came to get it. Otherwise, NO WAY Sawyer would have handed it over.

That freakin plane has me totally puzzled. *It definitely falls under the category an answer that raises 10 times more questions than it answers.

If one is to assume that Kate was after just the airplane then that thing has got to be a tone more significant than it appears. *I mean a) someone felt it was important enough to put it in a safety deposit box, b) Kate was willing to pull off an elaborate bank heist to get it, c) Kate was willing to go to great and elaborate lengths to retrieve it from the case on the island, and lied every step of the way. *All that for a tiny airplane???? *If it is just the aiplane, then it must be a key to something else (maybe a clue or the numbers on the wing or something)

If one assumes that Kate palmed the real reason for her urgency from the envelope so Jack wouldn't see, then it would have to be very small. *Maybe a key, or slip of paper. *It still begs the question, what is so frelling important???? *At least a key, or a paper with some code refer to something more valuable or important makes more sense being in a safety deposit box. *The plane could have been a trinket that went with the real objective. *But still, more questions.

As of right now, I believe that either the plane or something else in the envelope is a key, or clue to sometihng vastly more important. *I hope it is some sort of incriminating evidence, maybe against Kate, maybe of a government coverup of unethical reasearch or illegal activities (her Dad was a ranger so it stands to reason she may have, access to, connections to or even worked with the US government). *It it is just to money or something like that, I will be sorely dissappointed. *And I don't buy the whole just sentimental, because all that for that little plane just doesn't ring true to me.

As to the issue with not being on the signatory list for the box, it seems a lot of people assume she would have been on there in the first place. *If the envelope belonged to the man she loved and killed, then maybe the box belonged to him (seems logical or at least possible at this point). *It may have been only in his name (especially if he was a boyfriend). *Then there is the issue of her "killing him." *If the man she loved's family *knew or thought she was a murderer, it stands to reason that any access she may have had before might have been cut off. *Even if the man turns out to be her father, it doesn't mean that she would a) be on the signatory list, or b) have access to the nesecary paperwork (death certificate) to even obtain access, especially if she is a) truly the man'd killer and wanted for murder or b) on the run because of whatever secret that the contents of the box lead to (assuming that it's more than just an envelope containing a beloved trinket plane).

What a frustrating mystery, this one.

I agree with whoever said that the plane wasn't what she was expecting to find in the box, or in the envelope.

I also still find Kate a sympathetic character, in spite of all her lying. I would lie to Jack too...who died and made him king? His attitude toward her annoys me. If I were in Kate's shoes, I would feel like whatever was in the case was nobody's business but mine. I'd also feel justified in lying to a nosy parker like Jack. He's just annoying...he's too good...and he seems to have totally dismissed her now that she won't "come clean" about her past to him, which is his right, but why does she owe him that? He's just some guy, and he hasn't given her any reason to think he'll accept the truth about her (whatever it is, it's obviously something she feels very conflicted and guilty about).

Some people on the board are posting as though Kate lied to them personally. IT's not as though she lied to her best friend. She doesn't know Jack yet, and he's (in my mind) acting like they're married or something and she's betrayed him. It's irritating. Just my 2 cents. She could still turn out to be eeevil, but I like that better than goody-goody Jack. Has Jack really been so honest, after all?

Yes and he had his damned chance to have her explain and didn't care.

Enough of the 'enough of Kate' crap........enough of Jack!

Although Kate rubs me the wrong way, I agree that Jack shouldn't assume he has the right to know everything about Kate. He's always pressing her for new bkground info, but she really doesn't have to tell him anything. I would prefer she not say anything rather than lie though... that is just so predictable, and teeth-grinding. Why does Jack always fall for her antics?

IMaNavyGirl,

Thats sad that they'd do that to your mother. *But you do need a death cert to open a box. *Thats the point. *The guy who owns the box must not have been dead at the time, or known to be dead. *If he was the bank would have open the box and listed all contents with a death cert. *The banks do protect the intrests of clients in not opening boxes, ect. just on the fact that "he was my husband, dad, boyfriend, ect." *but on a death cert it lists the next of kin or executor, therefore allowing the bank to verify who is presenting the death cert is able to open the box. *

Therefore, if whoever owned the box was dead, and known to be dead, the executor would have presented the death cert to the bank and would have taken the contents. *

If your gonna rob a bank becuase your frustrated with the customer service, you've got more problems then robbing the bank.
:)

Also, Jack won't give up any information about himself. All he's told her is that he's a surgeon and that his father died..............that's it. She owes him nothing as far as I'm concerned.

I keep thinking about Sawyer saying there's no lock he couldn't pick. And he didn't put up much resistance when Jack came for the case. What if he had already opened it, taken out "whatever" and closed it up again? That would explain Kate's surprise that only the little plane was in there. Hmmm. (just thinking)

You know what... I didn't even think of that. Damn and now I feel bad for spouting in another post about how he betrayed her. I could totally see Sawyer doing that. It's sneaky, manipulative, and done for his own reasons. It could be seen as a good thing, but will probably be seen by most as a bad thing. I love that theory.

OK, I posted this idea somewhere else, but I'm going to repeat it here too.

What if Kate didn't know what was in the safety deposit box. What if she was on some sort of scavenger hunt? Maybe she thought this was the last clue, but the plane was really just the hint to get to the next clue? The plane could still have some sentimental value; whoever was planning the scavenger hunt probably knew Kate well enough to be able to plant something that would make her really emotional.

And I don't mean some sort of friendly scavenger hunt. I don't think the person running it is trying to help her, but more like taunt here in a Sawyer kind of way. As in, if she wants whatever he has (be it something tangible or, more probably, some information about the "man she loved"), she's going to have to work really hard for it.

What do you guys think?

IMaNavyGirl,

Thats sad that they'd do that to your mother. *But you do need a death cert to open a box. *Thats the point. *The guy who owns the box must not have been dead at the time, or known to be dead. *If he was the bank would have open the box and listed all contents with a death cert. *The banks do protect the intrests of clients in not opening boxes, ect. just on the fact that "he was my husband, dad, boyfriend, ect." *but on a death cert it lists the next of kin or executor, therefore allowing the bank to verify who is presenting the death cert is able to open the box. *

Therefore, if whoever owned the box was dead, and known to be dead, the executor would have presented the death cert to the bank and would have taken the contents. *

If your gonna rob a bank becuase your frustrated with the customer service, you've got more problems then robbing the bank.
:)



Good point. I doubt that the owner of the box is alive, but that is just my gut feeling. However, if Kate had just killed him (or he recently died and she held some responsibility for it), then a death cert might not have been available.

It is also possible that the next of kin was unaware of the existence of the box. If I'm right and the plane, the envelope, or other contents we are unaware of are either a key or clue to something larger and more important (I'm angling for incriminating documents of some sort myself), then it is possible that the killed man placed the item in the box in secrecy to keep it safe. He may have been the only signature, and no one else may have known about it. He may have then let it slip or purposely told Kate about the box. Problem is, if she is either considered complicit in the guy's death, or in danger because of what secret the guy might have told her, then she wouldn not have been able to get a death certificate.

Hehehe....listen to me. I'm getting so in depth in my version of a Kate backstory I'm practially writing my own story.

OK, I posted this idea somewhere else, but I'm going to repeat it here too.

What if Kate didn't know what was in the safety deposit box. What if she was on some sort of scavenger hunt? Maybe she thought this was the last clue, but the plane was really just the hint to get to the next clue? The plane could still have some sentimental value; whoever was planning the scavenger hunt probably knew Kate well enough to be able to plant something that would make her really emotional.

And I don't mean some sort of friendly scavenger hunt. I don't think the person running it is trying to help her, but more like taunt here in a Sawyer kind of way. As in, if she wants whatever he has (be it something tangible or, more probably, some information about the "man she loved"), she's going to have to work really hard for it.

What do you guys think?


Sapphire - i like that idea. Perhaps the plane was what led Kate to Australia.

Another possibility, if perhaps a remote one, is that the little plane is not what was in the safe deposit box but is in fact a keepsake Kate always carried with her. All the parallels between the pursuit of the case and the bank robbery tell us that whatever she got from the box was among her personal effects. But we never see that for sure. It's all an assumption the editing makes us have.

Banks only hand over the boxes of the deceased to the executors of the estate. If someone dies without naming an executor, all the death certificates and family ties won't necessarily get you access. I'm betting that whoever owned the box only listed himself. (My dad listed my mom and me as co-signatories on his box so that there would be no hassles when he died, but then he was a lawyer and knew how to handle such things.)

The planning of Kate's part in the robbery was incredibly lame. Banks are insured and they tell their personnel always to hand over whatever the robbers want. So the assumption that they would have to have Kate gain the manager's sympathy so that a threat to her would get them the loot is ludicrous. She should have stayed out of the way and just sent the b/f in with the key to get his money and her box. Or, if she wanted to keep an eye on him, she could have pretended to be a customer but not needed the charade of him threatening her. She bases her whole scheme on a total ignorance of banking procedures which the bank manager also manages to ignore just to prove her mistaken assumptions correct.

Cardie

There is too much with Kate. Liar Liar pants on fire..... Least for Sawyer they are.

Sorry if I'm wrong, but wasn't it mentioned on last night's episode that the bank/safety deposit box was in New Mexico??

If the plane belonged to her dad, why did he put it in a box in NM?? Are there any Army stations in NM?

Sorry if I'm wrong, but wasn't it mentioned on last night's episode that the bank/safety deposit box was in New Mexico??

If the plane belonged to her dad, why did he put it in a box in NM?? Are there any Army stations in NM?


Ohh . . . New Mexico makes me think of Los Alamos--the government-run research lab where the atomic bomb was developed.

Planes drop bombs . . .

I don't know where I'm going with this, but it's interesting. Back to those theories of the island as a WWII-era research facility maybe?

The plane could be a clue to find top secret papers on a not so kosher governement experiment or something. Maybe "the man" Kate loved stole them and hid them and Kate is after them.

Unless she's the famous Alex and she will need the plane later to show Danielle to prove who she is.

There is plenty US military presence in New Mexico.

Roswell, New Mexico is where the saucer crashed in 1947. The pieces and bodies were taken to the air base that was home to the air squadron that dropped the A-bombs on Japan.,

Kate's tough, a liar, and maybe a little vixen to boot, but i still don't think she's a cold-blooded killer. She could have killed the gunman, but shot him in the leg instead. She didn't have to. I think she might be some kind of Spec Ops.

I don't think that she literally killed the man she loved, though she may have been responsible for his death. Explains a lot of her trust issues.

As for the key, if she were having an affair, and the man died and his family knew nothing about the safety deposit box, there would be no way for Kate to get the box except to come forward to the family. And if that were impossible, and the item in the box important enough to her, she would stage a robbery.

^^^Interesting. An affair? Maybe, but some part of me just doesn't see Kate putting up with being the other woman. It is an interesting thing to consider though.

think she might be some kind of Spec Ops.

Code name: Laura Crofts. Definitly some one used to working under an alias. :whistling2:

The plane could be a clue to find top secret papers on a not so kosher governement experiment or something.* Maybe "the man" Kate loved stole them and hid them and Kate is after them.


Maybe the plane had one of those "microdots," or whatever they are called, that had information encrypted on it. Not that such information would be much help to someone stranded on an island.

Alane

Does anyone remember what the number of the safe deposit box was?


The box number was 815

I think the Marshall was just being sarcastic, I don't think he really believed her. If he did, he woudn't have caught her, he would have made up some excuse that she died or something.

I think the Marshall was just being sarcastic, I don't think he really believed her. If he did, he woudn't have caught her, he would have made up some excuse that she died or something.

he said "i did" as in past tense, so at some point he believed her

I think the plane in the mobile was an L10-11 and the Kate's toy plane is a DC-3.* There was a DC-3 in Raised by Another.* When she gets the call from the Psychic in the middle of the night there is a model plane sitting on the night stand.* It's the same kind as Kate's toy.* It's hard to tell, but this may be her room at her Mother's house because it is after the breakup with the boyfriend.

Link
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=100&pos=506

I think the plane in the mobile was an L10-11 and the Kate's toy plane is a DC-3.* There was a DC-3 in Raised by Another.*

It's sort of a strange item to have in one's bedroom. I wonder if that could be a younger sibling's bedroom, unless Claire really was into vintage toy airplanes.

Alane