I am a little surprised that I wasn't the first to jump in and voice rather severe disappointment in this episode.

I can't say there was anything here but filler - and I am sure that wasn't the intention at all from the storyline that's projected, but I think it's bordering on dangerous to toss out an episode this weak so early in the run. With ratings doing so well before the rerun break, I sure would have considered moving a more action-oriented story to the fore for the January return - especially considering how very very good the ALIAS seaason opener was immediately after.

I am miffed that one more time there are just set ups and no answers. You just can't sustain a hit show with doing the cheats in this manner. Kate should have spilled the beans to Jack and then the storyline moves on. Into some new direction for the character. I realize that the writers would like to keep us in the dark about things but an episode like this moves in the wrong direction.

We were left with a good cliffhanger in December - and no mention of that all or any recap of Locke and Boone unti ( I guess ) next week. Now, that's a cheat - like coming back to the theatre for the next serial episode on Saturday morning and finding out that the film depot sent the wrong episode.

The Kate 'mystery' is going to get old, folks and as much as I love this show - she started out being the most dominant character along with Jack and this sets her back. Is she just too long in the sun? I imagine that when writing this ep, the thought was to add yet another layer of mystery to Kate and this was attempted in the distrust interaction between her and her only two allies in the cast of characters. It was set up but no payoff - and that is the problem.

No payoff and not even one answer tarnish this episode and the way her character was written previously.

To say it's disappointing would be understatement. The lack of any payoff or "takeout" ( to use the movie serial parlance) from the previous episode is something that lands with a -thud- and -clank!-

Add to this the "resolution" of Shannon's translation of the song. I did like the interaction between Sayid and Shannon - that did work at least - but the "song" thing... Uh-uh. Weak.

And are we really supposed to think that Sawyer is that much of a wuss after all the character had been through?

Sorry, in summation -if I didn't know better and hadn't read the credits, I'd think this one a show written by someone who came in the door, dropped off a script, and who hadn't seen anything completed in the can.

And yes, to answer my original question, there are plenty of duds in great and classic tv shows - but do I remember one so early in the first season when the storyline is still in process and the audience is still building??

Ok - so convince me I am wrong - door is open for comments...

I was disappointed that the focus changed so swiftly. It went from "CHAARLIE!!! CLAAAIRE!" to... "BRIEEEFCAAAASE!" And Boone and Locke... I was hoping they would have made their discovery and we could all be suspenseful about it, but finding out they're just playing Jungle Camp sort of killed it for me.

Oh well. All in good time.

I kind-of agree with you. When I saw this episode the first time, I was kind-of dissappointed. Sure, it was no worse or better than Kate's other episode or House of the Rising Sun really, but it just didn't seem to fit what I was hoping for over the past agonizing weeks :(

Then I watched it again (the first time being on cable tv 3 hours prior) and loved it again. Probably just because we expected so much out of it due to being the return episode. If it had just been in-between others it probably wouldn't have been so disliked, but what are you gonna do? The writers didn't know it would end up as the January episode, so I don't blame anyone.

And I believe it was mentioned by Shannon that 4 days had passed since they found Charlie, when they must have been searching for Claire during, but just didn't find her.

I am a little surprised that I wasn't the first to jump in and voice rather severe disappointment in this episode.

I can't say there was anything here but filler - and I am sure that wasn't the intention at all from the storyline that's projected, but I think it's bordering on dangerous to toss out an episode this weak so early in the run. With ratings doing so well before the rerun break, I sure would have considered moving a more action-oriented story to the fore for the January return - especially considering how very very good the ALIAS seaason opener was immediately after.

I am miffed that one more time there are just set ups and no answers.* You just can't sustain a hit show with doing the cheats in this manner. Kate should have spilled the beans to Jack and then the storyline moves on. Into some new direction for the character. I realize that the writers would like to keep us in the dark about things but an episode like this moves in the wrong direction.

We were left with a good cliffhanger in December - and no mention of that all or any recap of Locke and Boone unti ( I guess ) next week. Now, that's a cheat - like coming back to the theatre for the next serial episode* on Saturday morning and finding out that the film depot sent the wrong episode.

The Kate 'mystery' is going to get old, folks and as much as I love this show - she started out being the most dominant character along with Jack* and this sets her back.* Is she just too long in the sun? I imagine that when writing this ep, the thought was to add yet another layer of mystery to Kate and this was attempted in the distrust interaction between her and her only two allies in the cast of characters. It was set up but no payoff - and that is the problem.

No payoff and not even one answer tarnish this episode and the way her character was written previously.

To say it's disappointing would be understatement. The lack of any payoff or "takeout" ( to use the movie serial parlance) from the previous episode is* something that lands with a -thud- and -clank!-

Add to this the "resolution" of Shannon's translation of the song.* I did like the interaction between Sayid and Shannon - that did work at least - but the "song" thing... Uh-uh. Weak.

And are we really supposed to think that Sawyer is that much of a wuss after all the character had been through?

Sorry, in summation -if I didn't know better and hadn't read the credits, I'd think this one a show written by someone who came in the door, dropped off a script, and who hadn't seen anything completed in the can.

And yes, to answer my original question, there are plenty of duds in great and classic tv shows - but do I remember one so early in the first season when the storyline is still in process and the audience is still building??

Ok - so convince me I am wrong - door is open for comments...




Thanks markl well put...come on JJ et al

I know you guys can do better!

I was bothered not so much by them appearing to have given up on the search for Claire, because everyone thinks that's what Boone and Locke are doing, plus Jack wanted to go visit Danielle to see if she could be of help. But everyone except Charlie didn't seem that broken up by her disappearance. Kate is going to look for more food and then she and Sawyer decide to frolic in the water. We might have had a scene with at least some other members of the group talking about how worried they were about her and the baby, or about how much they missed her cheerful ways. The main concern seemed to be, "Watch out-- you could be next" rather than having any feeling of loss that Claire wasn't among them. I mean, look at how fascinated total strangers got with Laci Peterson's disappearance.

Cardie

I've never really liked Kate, so my opinion is biased. *I don't think they should have made this the second Kate flashback. *I agree that it was a filler. *I did, however, enjoy the Sawyer and Sayid/Shannon moments.

I'd like to think the writers were using this episode to see if the fans are really as dedicated as they seem, but I don't know about that. *And a weak episode of LOST is a hell of a lot better than a strong episode of Charmed (wait, is it possible for there to be a strong episode of Charmed?).

This episode was mostly crap filler. There were good moments with Rose, who i loved first time i saw her on the show and I knew she could be a strong character.

Sawyer had some funny moments. The Kate / Maggie thing was lame REALLY LAME. That plane better mean something in the very near future or this was the biggest case of bullsh*t filler I have seen in a long time. She killed someone...and?

You can't trust anything she says or does anyway and the way she handled herself in the bank overall was very professional. I was thinking she was a spy or something.

They tried to make Shannon a little more likeable this eppy, but doesn't she get snatched up into the trees in the next one? So much for her french skills

Jack's becoming more hard core. Charlie's coming out of it little by little. Claire's gone...ho hum, at least that's how it seemed then again the friggin ocean is trying to swallow the beach so the7y have other things to worry about than a girl they hardly knew. It's only been a few weeks and most of them have no idea about Claire's backstory, just Charlie, remember? The rest don't know about her running around the Damien inside her. They have only known her a few weeks and there are other things to worry about. How many of you worry about what happens to people on the news for weeks after? Disconnection, survival of the fittest, or in this case, the most interesting. She'll be back if her kid is that important.

The episode left me feeling extremely Meh about it all. Oh well, better luck, next week.

Mark - good post, but be prepared for the attack of the defending posters who will tell you to go watch Reality TV and that payoff is not cool or edgy TV.

I know, because I made a post very similar to yours after "Cowboys" which I thought at the time was a letdown, but compared to this ep was a masterpiece. *The Instant Gratification Police swore out warrants on me quickly.

But I do agree with you. *While I don't want Lost to be a thirty min sitcom with everything wrapped in a neat bow at the end of every ep, I do believe there is danger in piling so many loose ends on top of each other with no answers in sight.

This especially seems to have come to a head after, as you mentioned, the great Dec cliffhanger of Ethan/Claire/Charlie. *Then - thud - tonight they don't even remember Claire's name. *And metal thingy? *What metal thingy? *Some have even called it a bait and switch.

But yeah, every great show has off moments. *And remember, Feb Sweeps is coming up and they will undoubtably blow out the jams there.

Hey Goof - you're right about the filler thing.

But the biggest problem isn't only that - it seems this episode's writing just disregarded the set characters of Kate, Jack, and Sawyer. In that respect it got way off base and went nowhere but nowhere. This ep is a toss-out I guess - and we hope there won't be another any time soon of this sort. Once you build up a character in, say, ten episodes, you have some definite conventions to stay with and not stray too far from.

Kind of like tuning in to Star Trek in the original run and finding "Spock's Brain" is tonight's show.

I mentioned the script continuity problem with the case under the seat in another topic - but it's another blunder we haven't seen in the previous 11 shows and certainly didn't expect.

I always expect very little from Kate stuff- I just don't like her- but I did like some of the interplay between her and Sawyer. The briefcase caper was rather cartoony in a good way. I was, however, disappointed by-

-The fact that Claire's disappearance had very little to do with anything.
-Charlie's scenes. I don't think Charlie works very well as a dramatic character- not because of the acting (Dom is pretty good at it) but because it tends to be a little to over the top. They put him through hellish situations- then don't give him adequate recovery time. In the promo for next week, he seemed to be back to his old self, and I think a little lingering emotional pain would be nice for transition purposes (I could be wrong though- it was just a promo). Same thing with the magically quick heroin withdraw.

Shannon really suprised me tonight- her scenes with Sayid were my favorites (except when she stomped off, calling herself worthless. We've done that before- with Charlie, about five episodes back). "Beyond the Sea" is way pretty in French, and Maggie sings very nicely.

The simplest answer is yes: every great show, and most especially serial, arc-centric shows will sometimes have an off episode, couple of episodes, or even SEASONS. Just ask Homicide fans, Northern Exposure fans, The Sopranos fans, Alias fans, Babylon 5 fans.... The thing is, with shows that are episodic in nature, like Law & Order, off episodes are usually pretty easy to shrug off, since the slate is somewhat new each week. On arc shows, however, it's not quite as easy because the events of each episode stick on characters and the overall like so much cement. Unfortunately, a weak episode in an arc show can deflate its less patient viewers very quickly, and the reaction to weak episodes is partly where arc shows run aground.

Lost is too young to hear threats of "jumping the shark" yet, but you've seen it smeared on every other show I mentioned above, most audibly after weaker episodes, and most of the time, these accusations are utterly wrong and the shows bounce back, usually the next week. Case in point: Tony Soprano's dream sequence, probably considered Season 5's weakest episode by many, was followed up immediately after by

(next episode) Adriana's execution and then immediately following that (next, next episode) with Tony Blundetto's execution and Johnny Sack's arrest.

It is perfectly normal for any show to have an off episode, it's just that they stick out more with the truly great ones... and since Lost (so far) is up there, this one sticks out.

I loved "Cowboys", but this...kind of left me a little angry. From what I hear- the next ep should more than make up for it.

I am so reminded of *"The Puppet Show" from Buffy season 1...I hate puppets and I hated this ep.

I think every show has weak eps.

McGuane- bitter much? Take a deep breath. It's all good. *8)

Stephanie

Yes, Bary,
That's sort of what I was getting at - and I would sure like to have this show proceeding all engines full ahead during the build up. But after the good eleven - this one just clanks with the issues I've mentioned. And most of them, I have to think, would have been obvious to the team and deserving of a re-write - at least to take care of the continuity glitch and something like Shannon's insult-to-Boone line which didn't work at all.

And yes, the seeming non-concern/mention of Claire also seems out of continuity, as does Charlie's being suddenly concerned about the monster in the jungle - more than of his own experience or finding Claire in the Rose exchange dialogue.

I could put this episode down as a "rush job" but would like to hear what Fury and JJ might have to say about it - after some of this reaction reaches 'em. Glad I am not "lost" and "alone" in my critique of this ep.

Clear from reading the replies that we all like this show too much to let this one slip by.

I do find it odd that they just assume Claire is dead. Perhaps its because they think they barely caught Charlie in time, thereis no way the would be able to save Claire. And there is a bare mention from Jack about the claire situation. But to me it seemed to be a way to find answers, not claire herself.

As for weak episode, i actually enjoyed this more then Cowboys. I think the plane at the end was classic, we were expecting some critical piece of info and all we have is another piece to the puzzle of coincedence. I found the kate/maggie scene to be curious, because it definitly leaves me wondering who the HELL was kate.


Let's face it, its a show about people on an island and they are not going anywhere. They can not resolve certain plot lines quickly, or else we would be left with nothing. The show is a running mystery, where we are given clues along the way, we guess, and try to see if we are indeed correct. And I think this is what is shaking some people's faith in the show.

But who doesnt like a good mystery? One with twists and turns, betrayal, faith, coincedence and total surprise. The surprise is coming,right now is the time to play along and try to guess it.

This episode was actually about NOT having a payoff...we were supposed to be confused about the importance of a toy plane. And kate killing someone...they said it too openly for there not to be more behind it.

But that being said, this is an ensemble cast. There will be odd moments of "Why arent they paying more attention to so and so". Especially since the days are running together here, people have their own interests, and one revelation usually brings out another.

When it all comes together (hopefully) then we will see how good the writers are at weaving it all together.

I was bothered not so much by them appearing to have given up on the search for Claire, because everyone thinks that's what Boone and Locke are doing, plus Jack wanted to go visit Danielle to see if she could be of help. But everyone except Charlie didn't seem that broken up by her disappearance.

Two problems with that intrepretation: First, Shannon asks Boone what he is doing with Locke, THEN he tells her 'searching for Claire'. So no one knows what they are doing in the jungle prior to that...unless everyone EXCEPT the guy's sister knows what he is doing, which seems unlikely to me. After all, they have nothing really to do and nothing to talk about except what interesting things(like searching for a kidnapped woman, pregnant no less, on a deserted island) people are up to, especially if the guy doing the searching is your brother.

Second, if a search was going on, we are to believe EVERYONE sat back and left it up to Boone & Locke? C'mon, if it was me there I'd help 'search' if only to not have to sit at the beach or caves staring at the same damn faces all the time. That is hard to believe, I bet Jack at leat would be in on the seach.

So the only conclusion I can draw is that they all feel NO search can succeed, so why even bother looking.

This relates to the topic in this way: This was indeed a very weak episode. This would be a momentum killer in a typical show. However, from the start Lost has this convention of not telling its audience anything of substance, this is a relatively rare approach. Even the Xfiles had standalone 'creature' episodes that told complete stories in one hour, Lost is going a riskier route. It'll be fun to see how long even the hardcore fans will give it before they say the emperor has no clothes.

One thing about this message board is that it is generally read by the producers and the creative team and and some members of the cast and they do appreciate us folks - the viewers and the fans and they do care - else why do we have this forum?

I don't have a Nielsen diary but I doubt that ABC or JJ are getting any creative feedback from those NSI families and you can only read the trades and entertainment columnists and critics for so long before they start running together.

Gotta tell it like it is, folks. We tell 'em when they have a goodie and we tell 'em when they have a clinker.

And a belated thanks to SewLost for her comment!

Well, i for one can say that this how has me intrigued. I almost feel sorry for the people who *obviously need it spelled out to them. The real fans will be the ones who can see the subtlety in the show, notice the philosophy of the show, and the nuances of information.

And the ones who have the faith to know that the wait makes the end much more sweeter.

The show is a running mystery, where we are given clues along the way, we guess, and try to see if we are indeed correct. And I think this is what is shaking some people's faith in the show.


Exactly -- it's a mystery, and if you look at it as a mystery, this wasn't a filler episode. *It answered some questions and gave us new ones, and we got a few new clues. *It's frustrating mainly because we want to know more, and sooner, and that's not going to happen, since it's a success. *

I am a little surprised that I wasn't the first to jump in and voice rather severe disappointment in this episode.




Um, you weren't the first, try looking at the rest of the page next time ;D

Exactly -- it's a mystery, and if you look at it as a mystery, this wasn't a filler episode. *It answered some questions and gave us new ones, and we got a few new clues.
Correct. I think you hit on a critical distinction that hasn't been overtly stated: there is a distinct difference between a filler episode and a weak episode. A filler episode is something thrown up there with almost no regard to what has come before, like one-off musical episodes or isolated episodic stories in an arc storyline, and frequently introduces little to nothing valuable to the plot. A weak episode is just one that doesn't shine as brightly, for whatever reason (character development fell flat, lack of direction, incoherence, disjointedness, etc.) but still remains connected to the arc and the plot. Filler episodes, done well, can be great fun, and often safely dismissed, even if they backfire. Weak episodes, however, can usually do harm because that's when people on the edge begin to tune out.

This was a weak episode that introduced new plot threads while taking little notice of the gigantic elephants in the room. It was so packed with new stories and situations on the island that the flashbacks were fewer and farther between than they usually are, but it gave barely any screen time to the major plot threads that the previous three episodes had built up to. As I've said elsewhere, that in and of itself isn't the issue... not every episode can move the plot forward in such giant steps, but nary a mention of the biggest developing arc is very unusual for a show of this type, and greatly contributed to its weakness.

And are we really supposed to think that Sawyer is that much of a wuss after all the character had been through?
Not a wuss. Just whiny.* ::)

I almost feel sorry for the people who obviously need it spelled out to them. The real fans will be the ones who can see the subtlety in the show, notice the philosophy of the show, and the nuances of information.


Define "real fan". Are "real fans" not allowed to air their feelings and opinions and express when they feel disappointed in an episode?

I'm a Lost cheerleader, but that doesn't mean that I don't feel disappointed when my team misses a field goal.

I feel like your post is meant to belittle and "name call" anyone who spoke poorly of a single episode. No need to "feel sorry" for us, and there is no need to imply that we are somehow not "real fans" for expressing an opinion other than your own.

I'm HAPPY that other people ENJOYED the episode. But I was let down. I'm GLAD that not everyone was.

~Aimee

Bary -
We are in agreeement with the script from left field!

And there's no answer to "why" - just nudges to the production folks to take a closer read of the characters to avoid a pitfall episode like this whenever possible.

On the bright side - JJ in recent forum posts promises the "Special" to be a pleaser - he was right about the Alias season opener ....

I LOVED this episode, but thought the Alias opener was just OK. :-\

I quite enjoyed this episode too. I thought it showed us alot of character stuff and not just for Kate. There was the obvious stuff for Kate, but we also saw more about Shannon and how all the accusations of uselessness affect her, Sayid and his interest and sweetness to Shannon, Jack's toughness, Boone's creepiness.

I didn't have a problem with how much Claire was mentioned. It's been 4 days since she's been taken--they have no more clues to follow, they aren't cops, they aren't trained in this(at least most of them aren't) and they don't even know exactly what's out there. Jack wanted to talk to Danielle, Sayid refused, maybe they'll go to talk to her yet. Just because he's thinking about more than JUST getting Claire back, doens't mean he wasn't thinking about getting Claire back. He clearly was because when Sayid made his comment, Jack pointed to Charlie and said "Tell him that" or something like that.

There was also the problem of the tide coming and the need to move futher away from the shore. There was Kate and her case with weapons in it and who knows what else.

I was disappointed. I don't need ALL the loose ends tied up neatly, but this seemed loose at BOTH ends, which speaks to the lack of continuity, and that makes for a weak episode.

For instance, with Charlie having been strung up by something and nearly killed, and Claire missing, it didn't make any sense to me that the first scene would have Kate hunting for food by herself - I don't care how tough she is, there is a real threat out there - and then she and Sawyer "find" a waterfall, then happily go for a swim. Just did not follow, in the logical sense.*

From the looks of the topics on this episode's board - consensus would seem to agree that this ep is not only weak but a real aberration for reasons previously mentioned. Take note folks and don't mess with the characters so radically!

Lots and lots of posts since last evening when these comments began. It might be interesting to have a short poll about how the board members feel about "Case" - thumbs up or down.

I think it would come out 65% nays vs. 35% yays, from what I'm reading. With a resource like this for feedback, I'd be surprised if the PTB aren't lurking, and will take note.