There have been a number of visual inconsistencies on the show, which could be dismissed as continuity errors. I suspect however, that most of you think like I do that they are intentional. In the Power of Suggestion thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=23501), the most recent inconsistency was discussed: Boones' necklace on his grave. From lost2009's post (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=437):


This shows Shannon sitting on the log (holding the necklace):
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=439

Then right after, Sayid's view of the cross (notice necklace):
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=442

Then Sayid about to sit down (Shannon holding necklace):
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=775&pos=444


And I know that this has been discussed in the PoS thread, but I'm suggesting that this could be a thread where those inconsistencies could be compiled. For instance, the hatch inconsistencies, and Jack's (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=55&pos=611) tattoos (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=55&pos=616) are on different threads on this board, and sometimes when you're looking for them, it's hard to remember which thread it was originally on.


Any other inconsistencies you've noticed? How about the "Others'" (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=757&pos=358) legs (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=757&pos=360)?

most of those images didn't work for me but on jack's tats, those are mathew fox's, so the most likely explanation is either the frame or the capture got flipped for one reason or another.

you would have to be pretty sloppy to mess this kinda stuff up. its either to mess with us or they are hinting or something

speaker: I think I've fixed the links above. Sorry about that!

And as far as Jack tattoos, that's one of the big issuses. Some think that it is a deliberate mirror image put in there for us to catch. I'll see if I can find another screencap source for them, to make sure the capture didn't get reversed.

And here is a site (http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~andorfc/paint.html) that discusses the hatch's inconsistencies. Scroll down for the caps, but be careful, because there are some spoiler shots beneath the hatch comaprisons. Notice that the props change places while Jack and Locke are down there. It is deliberate. These are not differences between flashbacks and present time, nor are these different hatches.

javi answered a question about the changing record players etc...he said as far as he knew it was a props mistake.

it does happen... a lot of times different crews will be sent to take pick ups than do the main scenes and their editors work REALLY late into the night.

javi answered a question about the changing record players etc...he said as far as he knew it was a props mistake.

it does happen... a lot of times different crews will be sent to take pick ups than do the main scenes and their editors work REALLY late into the night.

but a producer of the show has no vested interest in misdirecting people right?:smile:

The fact that Hanso's image is reversed in the Orientation film I think is a big clue to us to look for precisely these types of clues

Or how about on the exterior shot the Bunker's residence is on the left side of the duplex house, but on the interor shot it is on the right side? This has got me major peeved!

Oh shoot! Wrong board. Sorry.

Speaker: here is the question (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=23718&highlight=player) to Javi. Note his response:

thanks for your kind words about the show and the attention you pay to our work - i totally get that the details are important and appreciate your desire to make sure everything is exactly what it is - but there's times when a cigar is just a cigar (which is to say, some details are more relevant than others)!

so while i will leave it up to everyone to make up their own minds about the "magic props" in the hatch, i would advise that there are many things far more important going on in the island...

ja
vi

I don't think he definitively says that it is a continuity error. Why would they deliberately remove one record player, and replace it with another? Why change out the tables? It seems like more work for the continuity editors than is necessary.

WHY WHY WHY is Marvin Candle's tie different in the Orientation video?

This image is form the first film from "Orientation." (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=candle16hc.jpg)

This is from the film that Eko gives Locke to splice in with the original. (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=candle26nu.jpg)

Look at Candle's tie: in the original film the white stripe is on top, the black on bottom. In the second film, the black is on top and the white on bottom. This is not a matter of the film being reversed, it is a different tie.

So is it a different film? Or is there something else going on here?

WHY WHY WHY is Marvin Candle's tie different in the Orientation video?

Look at Candle's tie: in the original film the white stripe is on top, the black on bottom. In the second film, the black is on top and the white on bottom. This is not a matter of the film being reversed, it is a different tie.
Todell: This is a fascinating and worthwhile thread. Some visual inconsistencies (e.g., the mural that changes from "eye m sick" to "eye m well" over the course of the premiere) strike me as highly relevant.

OK, I was about to dismiss your observation regarding the tie. But you're absolute right, the black and white stripe are reversed. Reversal, hmmm...

This is exactly the kind of stuff that might be put in the WTF thread that I established. I hope you don't mind me linking to here from there.

That's fine, ATL!

And BigM: It's not a typical film reversal. His mole is still above his left eye. If the film were reversed, the mole would be over his right eye. So why is the tie different? And if it's just a continuity error, why make things so hard on your costume department and continuity errors to go out and buy different ties? It reminds me of the ever-changning record players. Why buy two very different record players for the set? Why not just buy the same kind, so that you don't have continuity errors?

Unless you intend for them to be there...

Beware fake Dharma films. Remember that javi wrote that and we assume it was for the information that was coming out on the web. hmph.

Todell, we have to stop meeting like this.

I can see where there might be mistakes in the props used in different shots, but in the ones where there is an elaborate set, I always assumed that the set stayed set up pretty much permanantly.

I would have assumed that the inside of the hatch is a pretty elaborate set, and would stay pretty much intact all the time, not torn down, all props stored, and then rebuilt due to the need for a shot in the next episode.

As for the tie, there must be something there, also. If they were going to shoot a film for the Lost-a-ways to find pieces of, wouldn't they just shoot the entire film, and then make several copies in different stages of re-assembled completion.

I would not think that they would actually make several different films over several different shoots to represent pieces of a supposedly complete film.

But that's just my opinion.

todell..

love the thread... these are differences to be found for sure... the tie JUMPED out at me and caused me to go look for screen caps...

Here's (http://lost.cubit.net/pics/candles.jpg) a good shot of the two Dr. Candles side by side. Really underscores the contrast between the two. Looks to me like the excised portion was made at a different time.

If the captures put up by todell of jacks tattoos are reversed wouldn't the 5 on jacks tattoo and the abc logo be reversed?

Here's (http://lost.cubit.net/pics/candles.jpg) a good shot of the two Dr. Candles side by side. Really underscores the contrast between the two. Looks to me like the excised portion was made at a different time.

Absolutely, notice his hair which evidently black in the 'missing splice' and greyish in the original movie.

the coat is way different look at the lapels

I am sooo glad I found this thread. I had not been aware of the hatch changes, only the Dr. Candle oddities. Originally, I assumed that the actor might have just loosened the tie between takes and then, when he tightened it back up… the stripes were just in different places. Easy enough? I also thought the differences in the skin and hair color was the producers way of trying to show that one film had been played (or exposed to light) more than the other. OK, I can believe that. But why the different jacket? Why the different record players. Why the different lamps…etc.?

I had a friend who was a prop master (or whatever the hell they call the guy that makes, finds, buys, hoards… trust me… you should see his garage… and self storage locker… and…anyway, he has a ton of stuff ) and he never made this many mistakes. He almost got fired from a TV show for using the wrong pens in shots that were several months apart.

These “errors” seem to be purposefully done. Maybe to just “f” with us… but?????

If the captures put up by todell of jacks tattoos are reversed wouldn't the 5 on jacks tattoo and the abc logo be reversed?

The pic isn't reversed, but the scene was prior to airing.

The 5 in the tatoo is reversed as well as the asian characters undreneath it (look at the base of the five and how one side tapers more than the other). In addition to this, look at the buttons on his shirt. Mens shirts normally have the buttons on the right side (to the wearer) and the button holes on the left. They're reversed in this pic as compared to the first.

This was reversed during editing. I don't know if it was intentional.

The lamp on the table in the hatch also changes. (I believe between MoS,MoF and Orientation). And the medicine cabinet is bright and shiny then looks filthy. (same episodes) I think those things are deliberate. Great thread, Todell!

Here's (http://lost.cubit.net/pics/candles.jpg) a good shot of the two Dr. Candles side by side. Really underscores the contrast between the two. Looks to me like the excised portion was made at a different time.

That's a good shot. It may be nitpicking, but did you notice his hair is a little different also. In the image on the right, it looks as if gel has been freshly applied and combed into his hair. The image on the left, it looks dry, as if there's no product in it at all.

These may be continuity errors, but one has the wonder.

I just thought of another one! The records in the hatch. They were all set up nice and neat, side by side. Then later, they were all messy and leaning over.

WHY WHY WHY is Marvin Candle's tie different in the Orientation video?

This image is form the first film from "Orientation." (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=candle16hc.jpg)

This is from the film that Eko gives Locke to splice in with the original. (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=candle26nu.jpg)

Look at Candle's tie: in the original film the white stripe is on top, the black on bottom. In the second film, the black is on top and the white on bottom. This is not a matter of the film being reversed, it is a different tie.

So is it a different film? Or is there something else going on here?Well, Todell, you know I think there is. There are the little details but that big red exit sign that was so noticable in the first film is pointing the other way in this one. So they can argue about the tie and lapels but the sign? Also this film is much darker and I don't mean lighting wise, I mean sinister. Dr. Jekyll/Marvin Candle?
http://lost.cubit.net/pics/candles.jpg

of course the tie, black and white, there is no way you can get the first tie to change the order of the stripes.

Todell - great thread! There was also a discussion about the 2 different lottery tickets in EHH in this thread (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=22691&highlight=ticket) .

Ticket #1 (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=82) & Ticket #2. (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=748&pos=183).

ETA: Links

Todell, I've been searching for screencaps for you on some of the inconsistencies so you could have evidence in one place. Found a couple.

Here are the different screencaps of the record player:

From MoS,MoF:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/ommadawn1/bscap008.jpg

From Adrift:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/ommadawn1/bscap009.jpg

Here are the different screencaps of the lamp on Desmond's desk:

From MoS,MoF:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/ommadawn1/Lamp1.jpg

From Adrift:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/ommadawn1/Lamp2.jpg


ETA:
I just noticed on the first page of this thread, you posted a link to a site that had hatch comparison photos, but you said there where spoilers there, so I didn't go. Just relooked at the date on your post and realized that those spoilers aren't spoilers anymore. Oops. :lol: :blush:

I’ve been able to rationalize most of these as simple production/editing errors (i.e., reversal of Jack shots for some benign reason; multiple takes of Dr. Candle’s film with minor discrepancies between takes), but the lamps have got me. The lamps! They are so obviously different, and yet they are different. Could be a mistake, but I’m curious now whether there is more behind this.:huh:

Great thread. I enjoyed the read, and will now be keeping my own eyes open for any more discrepancies. Thanks Todell.

I think the clear give away in the film is the flipped frame of Alvar Hanso. That isn't an error. It was placed there for people that are looking. There was time spent on making this film and it may not be a turning point for the show but was given to the internet fans to notice and work on.

lets have a game of spot the difference!

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-829-600.html
and

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-736-235.html

Ok, you can argue that it is a continunity error or not just because things are small, it's not a big deal, yadda, yadda, yadda

Changing the tile on the floor is a big deal. That's not an error. The hatch was changed.
in a subtle but major way.

Ok, you can argue that it is a continunity error or not because things are small, it's not a big deal, yadda, yadda, yadda

Changing the tile on the floor is a big deal.

Wow!!! Also look at the wall to the left of the booth (e.g., Dharma logo), as well as to items on the floor in the lower right hand quarter. These are major goofs if done accidentally. But if intentional, what is the point?

The things that look like they are on the floor - it's the corner of the table.

The things that look like they are on the floor - it's the corner of the table.

Ooops! Sorry about that, my bad. Guess its just the wall insignia that’s different in addition to the floor.

I noticed that the Dharma logo is missing from the RIGHT side of the booth, in the Desmond scene, and I see that the floor tile is different..but...

I just wanted to remind people that IIRC, there was a relocation of the LOST set(s)...at some point, they acquired the use of another studio in Hawaii (the one with the tanks for filming underwater scenes that came to be shown in "Adrift", I believe) when the previous client moved out. Just throwing out the possibility that maybe those two scenes were filmed in different studios and if so, then they didn't match the sets perfectly. Also, it might sound ridiculous, but maybe the Losties moved the Dharma logo to where it is in the Eko/Locke scene. New tenants and all...

Having said all this, I would prefer there to be something odd going on.:biggrin:

I am pretty sure I saw an interview with the Jorge Garcia where he joked that the set guys kept adding things to the hatch set. He laughed like it was an ongoing joke. Maybe I am dreaming and that never happened.

But I think that this whole deal, like the numbers is just to get a certain group of people all wrapped up. I mean how many people have been banging their heads as to what those numbers mean? And then I think the set and editing people are having a field day giving the screen grabbers something to be obsessed with.

I think it does a great job... at entertaining on many different levels.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-748-156.html
Remember when Locke found coffee in the jungle? I wonder if he found something that was airdropped for the Hatch?

Isn't that coffee in the large crate?

Well, Javi provided us with an explanation (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=28950) as to the inconsistencies in the 2 parts of the Orientation video.... click if you dare....

Well, Javi provided us with an explanation (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=28950) as to the inconsistencies in the 2 parts of the Orientation video.... click if you dare....
JMHO but that is a prime example of a non-answer. I :heart: the writers, the producers and the product...and I think he was very creative in his wording. So I give him an A+ on that one. :biggrin:

Ah, Javi. The Art-full Writer, The Artful Dodger.:)

I am a freak for perfect teeth. I take a lot of pride in mine so I am always looking at peoples teeth. Did anyone notice Michelle's crooked-toothey smile from Season 1 has turned into a flawless-straight-sparkely-white-bar of teeth? I wonder if she had them fixed during the flight. May be a cosmetic dentist aboard 815? he he! I always notice dumb things like this.:biggrin:

I just dragged this over from a "Michelle" thread I started but found it more appropriate here.

iamicarus...yes, but I heard that it's explained by the actress having had her teeth "done". But maybe it was plot-driven??? (somebody stop me)

JMHO but that is a prime example of a non-answer. I :heart: the writers, the producers and the product...and I think he was very creative in his wording. So I give him an A+ on that one. :biggrin:

Ah, Javi. The Art-full Writer, The Artful Dodger.:)

Well, Javi provided us with an explanation (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=28950) as to the inconsistencies in the 2 parts of the Orientation video.... click if you dare....

I couldn't agree more, Tabby! Javi is the master of the non-answer. He says enough to satisfy either side of a debate, and he's done that again here. I have been in the thick of the Orientation film debate on the 'What Kate Did" boards for some time now, but I had to walk away after Javi said this. He admits that there are two different films. The coninuity error folks point to this and declare themselves right, but I see that the creators deliberately wanted two different filmstrips for a reason. But what is the reason? The point that I was trying to make on the other thread was it isn't about the stupid tie, it is about where the new film comes in and what is said on it. But this point, unsurprisingly, was ignored, because the folks over there are only interested in arguing aout whether or not it was a mistake. Anyway, from my post over there:

Well, let's talk about the two different pieces: we can all agree that there are two different pieces of film, through deliberation or continuity error. So let's look at what Candle says and when he says it:

(From Orientation)

Not long after the experiments began, however, there was an incident. And since that time the following protocol has been observed: every 108 minutes the button must be pushed. From the moment the alarm sounds you will have 4 minutes to enter the code into the microcomputer processor [splice] induction into the program. When the alarm sounds,

(From What Kate Did)

When the alarm sounds, either you or your partner must input the code. It is highly recommended that you and your partner take alternating shifts. In this manner you will stay as fresh and alert utmost importance that when the alarm sounds the code be entered correctly, and in a timely fashion. Do not attempt to use the computer for anything else other than the entering of the code. This is its only function.

Cut to Locke

The isolation that attends the duties associated with Station 3 may tempt you to try and utilize the computer for communication with the outside world. This is strictly forbidden. Attempting to use the computer in this manner will compromise the integrity of the project and worse, could lead to another incident. I repeat, do not use the computer for anything other than entering the code.

Cut to Locke.

Congratulations, until your replacements arrive, the future of the project is in your hands. On behalf of the DeGroots, Alvar Hanso and all of us at the Dharma Initiative, thank you. Namaste. And good luck.

The reason everyone is worrying over this is there is a legitimate question as to the film's integrity. And if the middle section of the film is not original, it begs the question as to whether or not communication with the outside world caused the incident. Especially in light of Michael's little chat with whomever on the computer seconds later.

It is only in the "new" piece that communication is mentioned. If you believe that it was a continuity error, then that means that Dharma was always concerned with communication with the outside world. If you think that it is a deliberate act on the part of the writers, it means that there is a possibility that there was a second incident that had something to do with communication with the outside world, and the Dharma folks went back and decided to discourage communication by adding that caveat by Candle.

Or maybe not. But it is a legitimate question. If the film is deliberately different, it opens up real questions about the project, the role of communication and what happened in the past on the island. I think it is worth questioning.


My feeling about all of the inconsistencies is that they don't want us to obsess over every single little detail, but to notice that they are there, and wonder why. That said, I think it is important to continue finding them, and listing them, because I have a suspicion they might be another mystery of the island. Will it be "The Answer?" I don't know, but I don't think so. But I do think it will be a piece of the larger puzzle...

My feeling about all of the inconsistencies is that they don't want us to obsess over every single little detail, but to notice that they are there, and wonder why. That said, I think it is important to continue finding them, and listing them, because I have a suspicion they might be another mystery of the island. Will it be "The Answer?" I don't know, but I don't think so. But I do think it will be a piece of the larger puzzle...
It IS important to find them and list them, in the interest of understanding what is going on, and for those who like to try to figure out "the mysteries" and what is going on, ahead of time.

Regarding that film...I agree with your points about the content of the splice (the words spoken). We don't know what the (original) incident was, and the removed section of the film COULD indicate that a subsequent incident (similar or different) occurred.

The removal of that section of the film could have been merely for damage control about the "original" incident, and/or part of a plan to abandon the Hatchies. There's so many possibilites about what the words spoken and most everything else about the film mean...I'm ready to just wait and see.

Regarding that film...I agree with your points about the content of the splice (the words spoken). We don't know what the (original) incident was, and the removed section of the film COULD indicate that a subsequent incident (similar or different) occurred.

The removal of that section of the film could have been merely for damage control about the "original" incident, and/or part of a plan to abandon the Hatchies. There's so many possibilites about what the words spoken and most everything else about the film mean...I'm ready to just wait and see.


Perhaps the films are inconsistant because there is more than one film. Since subtle differences in Candles' appearance can be seen in both sections of film, maybe the section Eko had came from another hatch.
I noticed in the pics posted regarding Candles' tie, that his hair looked different too. He may have filmed more than one movie.

I agree with you Tabby, I cannot wait to see what happens!

well, FWIW, in "what kate did", there are several shots when jack and kate are caring for sawyer that show the washer/dryer area. some shots show a single dharma uniform on a hanger, other shots show no uniform hanging. there appears to be one laid out on the dryer(i guess) which i suppose could have been hung up..or then again...not....goofs? viewed thru a perspective? ???? bowl games next wed and then back to business:-)

well, FWIW, in "what kate did", there are several shots when jack and kate are caring for sawyer that show the washer/dryer area. some shots show a single dharma uniform on a hanger, other shots show no uniform hanging. there appears to be one laid out on the dryer(i guess) which i suppose could have been hung up..or then again...not....goofs? viewed thru a perspective? ???? bowl games next wed and then back to business:-)You are right I noticed that last night too. I have to go screen cap hunting but I remember seeing several uniforms hanging there. Now I'll have to see if the change happened between MoS/MoF Adrift and Orientation. I think too much time has passed for it to be an inconsistancy. It's obvious someone has been using the washer and dryer. There are probaby several people that could use a change of cloths.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b389/SamG1/?action=view&current=lost_2x01_027.jpg MoS/MoF Thanks to Awaken_Cordy @ Live Lournal

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-736-266.html Adrift many uniforms

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-829-158.html What Kate Did

What's really funny is someone thought they needed to iron something.

Todell, I've been searching for screencaps for you on some of the inconsistencies so you could have evidence in one place. Found a couple.

Here are the different screencaps of the record player:

From MoS,MoF:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/ommadawn1/bscap008.jpg

From Adrift:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/ommadawn1/bscap009.jpg

Here are the different screencaps of the lamp on Desmond's desk:

From MoS,MoF:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/ommadawn1/Lamp1.jpg

From Adrift:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/ommadawn1/Lamp2.jpg


ETA:
I just noticed on the first page of this thread, you posted a link to a site that had hatch comparison photos, but you said there where spoilers there, so I didn't go. Just relooked at the date on your post and realized that those spoilers aren't spoilers anymore. Oops. :lol: :blush:

In the record player shots-look at the physique of the men in the shots-in MoS,MoF,it looks like Locke or someone else that is heavier on the stomach, in the adrift picture, Desmond is skinnier but look at Locke.

In the pictures of the lamp on the tables,
Look at the window over the table in one shot that huge hole is broken in the window, and in the other its intact.

In the record player shots-look at the physique of the men in the shots-in MoS,MoF,it looks like Locke or someone else that is heavier on the stomach, in the adrift picture, Desmond is skinnier but look at Locke.

In the pictures of the lamp on the tables,
Look at the window over the table in one shot that huge hole is broken in the window, and in the other its intact.
I agree that we are being misled by who we first see in MoS/MoF. I don't think it's Locke because we know what his hands look like and those aren't Locke's hands. Could it have been Kelvin?

The other shot is harder to tell if it is a hole in the window or if there is a wall that has been broken through behind it. The angle in the first shot and the blinds, would stop you from seeing if it was a wall.

But I'm going to watch the episodes again and see if anything appears clearer.

In the pictures of the lamp on the tables,
Look at the window over the table in one shot that huge hole is broken in the window, and in the other its intact.

I agree with KTDA that there is a hole in the window every time it is shown after the initial beginning of MOSMOF.

Here is the original shot of the window in MOSMOF

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y201/ommadawn1/Lamp1.jpg

If you look at the window through the blinds, through the lighting - everything is very clean & uniform.

Now, in Adrift - Lock is walking towards the table in this screen capture.

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=736&pos=44

If you look through the blinds now, through the lighting, everything is not so clear. The light is brighest in the middle and darker on the sides. However, we cannot tell why in this photo.

After Locke opens the blinds:
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=736&pos=45

If you enlarge this picture, you can see the jagged edges of the glass that would imply a hole in the glass & the intact part of the glass is clearly dirty.

Here is another good shot when Locke is sitting at the table talking to Desmond:

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=736&pos=236


To me - all of this implies that what we see at the beginning of MOS/MOF is not the moments leading up to the lostaways blowing the hatch - but probably the moments leading up to the incident mentioned in the Orientation films.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-736-241.html I see what you mean. Not ordinary glass though, it looks to be a couple of inches thick, you can see the width along the edge.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-736-45.html You can see why I suggested a wall, in this picture it looks like there is some distance after the blinds until the break. The hole is rather uniform, not something we expect from glass, I don't know how very thick glass breaks though, that why I suggested a wall.

To me - all of this implies that what we see at the beginning of MOS/MOF is not the moments leading up to the lostaways blowing the hatch - but probably the moments leading up to the incident mentioned in the Orientation films.I like this idea but this is what Javi said: http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=23611
Note there also looks to be a game on the table and a die upsidedown 32

Sam G. - thanks for the link to what Javi said. I never saw that.

However, Javi's response does not make grammatical sense to me. Should he have said (I have added whatever is capitalized):

"the opening of 'man of faith...' was indeed THE inside OF the hatch right before Kate and Locke came down....."

I find his wording may be ambiguous, or rather, incomplete. Of course, I could be over-analyzing his response.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b389/SamG1/?action=view&current=lost_2x01_027.jpg
MoS/MoF (Thanks Awaken_Cordy)
Now the uniforms seem strange

There have been a number of visual inconsistencies on the show, which could be dismissed as continuity errors. I suspect however, that most of you think like I do that they are intentional.

I recently developed a suspicion about why they might be there:

Damon's father, David Lindelof, was a big fan of movies & TV. Once I told him that if I made movies or TV shows, I'd do things that'd make audiences mad at me -- messing with their heads (only I didn't say "messing"). Mostly little unsettling things. Among audience-unsettling effects I said I'd use would be deliberate continuity "errors".

I think I later brought up the same thought to Damon. Could it be that now...? Indeed, just as I'd predicted of the audience effect, the very thought of this being just to mess with us makes me mad! But I'm also laughing along with them a little.

If you're wondering, one of the other ideas I had was to edit scenes a little "wrong". I'd cut them too late at the end, and the audience would see the actors wandering off their marks, or at the beginning, and the audience would lose a syllable of dialog; or I'd cut them too early, same effects. Another idea would be to insert maybe a second or so of footage of actors out of character, like eating lunch, maybe as a spurious "reaction" shot. Or maybe someone would refer to another by a wrong name.

Robert

This one isnt visual but Jacke tells Rose in Walkabout that he was in seat 23A (and we do see him sitting there, then move to 23C) But he tells Ana Lucia 23B

http://img448.imageshack.us/img448/9357/borntorun6473hq.jpg

Here's a good one!

These are major goofs if done accidentally. But if intentional, what is the point?

THAT is the question that is begging to be asked. In the post above me, MRI spelling Magnetic Resonance Imagining? That HAD to be deliberate- but what does it signify? There are deep ontological implications- the kind that need to be explored in a TV show that is in many ways very much like one of Philip K. Dick's books that deal with twisted reality, illusory realities, and the very nature of reality. The use of the word Imagining in the MRI sign may be a subtle clue to support the implanted memory theory, but what of all the moving/changing props and whatnot? Any ideas? What are the implications?

THAT is the question that is begging to be asked. In the post above me, MRI spelling Magnetic Resonance Imagining? That HAD to be deliberate- but what does it signify? There are deep ontological implications- the kind that need to be explored in a TV show that is in many ways very much like one of Philip K. Dick's books that deal with twisted reality, illusory realities, and the very nature of reality. The use of the word Imagining in the MRI sign may be a subtle clue to support the implanted memory theory, but what of all the moving/changing props and whatnot? Any ideas? What are the implications?
The goofs that have really been goofs, TPTB have admitted to, there are many they have never responded to or have given very iffy responses to, leaving the door open for any interpretation.

What does it mean? I figure if we collect enough information, sooner or later, things will start to fall into place for someone and they will propose a theory that we will all build on.

http://img448.imageshack.us/img448/9357/borntorun6473hq.jpg

Here's a good one!

I love it! But I'd like to know its provenance, as there've been many fan hoaxes. Wait, that's from season 1 -- I can check the DVD! I advise others to do so too.

It's from episode Born to Run

about 32 minutes in
after Kate's mom yells Help Me
Kate runs out of MRI unit door.

I recently developed a suspicion about why they might be there:

Damon's father, David Lindelof, was a big fan of movies & TV. Once I told him that if I made movies or TV shows, I'd do things that'd make audiences mad at me -- messing with their heads (only I didn't say "messing"). Mostly little unsettling things. Among audience-unsettling effects I said I'd use would be deliberate continuity "errors".

I think I later brought up the same thought to Damon. Could it be that now...? Indeed, just as I'd predicted of the audience effect, the very thought of this being just to mess with us makes me mad! But I'm also laughing along with them a little.

If you're wondering, one of the other ideas I had was to edit scenes a little "wrong". I'd cut them too late at the end, and the audience would see the actors wandering off their marks, or at the beginning, and the audience would lose a syllable of dialog; or I'd cut them too early, same effects. Another idea would be to insert maybe a second or so of footage of actors out of character, like eating lunch, maybe as a spurious "reaction" shot. Or maybe someone would refer to another by a wrong name.

Robert
Did you by any chance give them the ideas of showing scenes out of sequence, showing incomplete scenes and showing (episodes later) events preliminary to already shown scenes, utilizing too many characters along with heavy use of their intermittent (and incomplete) flashbacks, utilizing said flashbacks to slow down the storytelling of Island current events, making use of (allegedly) lying characers, writing nebulous dialogue, and writing dialogue and action to influence us into thinking the characters are hallucinating from lack of sleep, or crazy? :biggrin:

Robert, you may be laughing with them a little :D ...but I only have the tiniest smidgeon of a smile.:) But at least I know whom to blame now! :roflmao:

This one isnt visual but Jacke tells Rose in Walkabout that he was in seat 23A (and we do see him sitting there, then move to 23C) But he tells Ana Lucia 23B
Yes, he did, according to the Exodus I transcript.

And according to the lost-tv Walkabout transcript, at the initial memorial service:

Kate: You seen Jack.
Claire: ...Howard, seat 23C.

So did Howard get in line for a bathroom or change seats or miss the flight? Did we see someone get up and leave that seat? And kind of interesting that the 23C line immediately followed a line about Jack.

ETA I keep thinking we may see some other survivors yet...just making note, in case.

i agree that there are other flt 815 survivors on the island somewhere...

it didnt look like every seat was accounted for when Charlie, Kate and Jack went back for the transceiver... some dead bodies, but some missing bodies as well.

http://img448.imageshack.us/img448/9357/borntorun6473hq.jpg

Here's a good one!

Ha! I hadn't seen that before! Just double checked the episode, and it's not KTDA that's messing with us. Nice catch!

Yes, he did, according to the Exodus I transcript.

And according to the lost-tv Walkabout transcript, at the initial memorial service:

Kate: You seen Jack.
Claire: ...Howard, seat 23C.

So did Howard get in line for a bathroom or change seats or miss the flight? Did we see someone get up and leave that seat? And kind of interesting that the 23C line immediately followed a line about Jack.

ETA I keep thinking we may see some other survivors yet...just making note, in case.

Shadow Anthology on Lost-theseries has the best transcripts for the first season. I have to go check Losthatch, they may be wrong, they missed a whole of Kate's in an episode and I had to let them know.
(Claire has taken charge of the services for the deceased. Flanked on either
side by Boone and Hurley, Claire reads off a piece of paper. Boone carries a
lit torch. In front of her, the other survivors gather around and listen
quietly. Behind her, we see the fuselage on fire.)

CLAIRE: Judith Martha Wexler from Denton, Texas. I guess she was gonna catch a
connecting flight. Um ... she wore corrective lenses, and she was an organ
donor. Or at least would have been.

(She hands the paper back to Hurley who hands her the next item: The journal.)

CLAIRE: Steve and Kristen - (she opens the book) -- I don't know their last
name, but, uh ... they were really in love and were gonna be married. At least
wherever they are now, they're not alone.

(As she talks, we see the other survivors' reactions.)

(Off to the side and hidden in the darkness beyond a large piece of wreckage,
Charlie takes out of his plastic bag of drugs. He opens the bag and pours out a
small bit into the palm of his hand.)

CLAIRE: (o.s.) Emmanuel Rafael Ortiz, Los Angeles. Turned 32 just last week.
Must have had children.

(Back at the service, Shannon and Sawyer listen.)

CLAIRE: Video store receipt lists overdue charges for "Willy Wonka" and "The
Little Princess."

(Charlie joins the group and steps up behind Kate.)

CLAIRE: Looks like he, uh, hadn't traveled much, as far as I can tell from his
passport.

(Kate turns to Charlie.)

KATE: You seen Jack?

(Charlie shakes his head, no.)

CLAIRE: Wollstein, Harold. Seat 23-C ...

(Claire's voice fades in the distance.)

[JACK]

(Jack sits on the beach staring out into the ocean not being a part of the
services. The fire from the plane burns behind him.)

[MICHAEL AND LOCKE]

(Michael and Locke stand next to each other.)

MICHAEL: Nice work.

JOHN LOCKE: What?

CLAIRE: (o.s.) Millicent Louise *** ---

Shadow Anthology on Lost-theseries has the best transcripts for the first season. I have to go check Losthatch, they may be wrong, they missed a whole of Kate's in an episode and I had to let them know.

Thanks, Sam G...looks like lost-tv missed a lot on this one. Sorry for the confusion. Looks like the video receipts were Ortiz' then. I saw your reply to my similar post on your "People mentioned but not seen" thread about these people. The reason I mentioned them here is for the Seat 23C/Howard (now Wollstein, Harold)/Jack reference.

It's from episode Born to Run

about 32 minutes in
after Kate's mom yells Help Me
Kate runs out of MRI unit door.

todell and I were talking about this earlier. she says she was worried because it gave credence (perhaps) to the implanted memories ideas. I however, when looking at the link was immediately reminded of Epcot center and the imagineers. I don't remember too much about our childhood trip to disneyworld except an unfortunate incident at the gates (mentioning no gates) that foiled a trip one day, and epcot. A few years later todell went with a friend (we lived in MS for awhile so it wasn't too far) and I remembered all of her pictures from Epcot, all of the different cultures shown and the world of tomorrown world's fair type feel...

I don't know what it means, just thought I'd see if anyone else had that thought. i mean who else would do imagining other than imagineers?

I remember Figment the purple dragon-he was a "figmentation of your imagination"
I still have the little stuffed animal! Nobody ever nows what I'm talking about-and tried to make me think it was a figmentation of my imagination-but I stll had my doll-so I knew it was real :)

Yes, he did, according to the Exodus I transcript.

And according to the lost-tv Walkabout transcript, at the initial memorial service:

Kate: You seen Jack.
Claire: ...Howard, seat 23C.

So did Howard get in line for a bathroom or change seats or miss the flight? Did we see someone get up and leave that seat? And kind of interesting that the 23C line immediately followed a line about Jack.

ETA I keep thinking we may see some other survivors yet...just making note, in case.

I've been wondering this too.
This whole bathroom theme is starting to make me wonder who else wasin the lavatories on the plane because we know Bernard was in one in the back of the plane, and we know Charlie checks 2 or 3 that are locked before finding the one that is unlocked. So who else was in the bathrooms?!

Also in the scene where Charlie drops his drugs in the toilet, he goes to reach down to open the cabinet like he either noticed something or heard something, but when he reaches for the handle the plane jolts and chalie hits the ceiling.

Could the children have been stowed away and not passengers?!!!!


Also
Another inconsistency is (in my mind at least) all the people running around in the background of the opening scene of the pilot episode.

Some people are stationary, tendin to their wounds or others, then there are some people in the scenes that are running around like they are being chased-In particular there is a young girl in her early 20's long brown hair and light blue shirt and jeans - I see her run throuh just about every scene - Now she may be looking for someone she was on the plane with, she is really bookin' it and soesnt appear to be looking for anyone but running from someone.

-----------------------------------------------------------

One other note/question
Could the men helping Jack pull the Man with the hurt leg from under the wreckage be the "blonde man, curley haired man, and the German man that was helping with the injured" - That Nathan was looking for in the Other 48 Days?

I've been wondering this too.
This whole bathroom theme is starting to make me wonder who else wasin the lavatories on the plane because we know Bernard was in one in the back of the plane, and we know Charlie checks 2 or 3 that are locked before finding the one that is unlocked. So who else was in the bathrooms?!


Hey KTDA Dawn-- don't forget, Nathan says he was in the bathroom when Ana-Lucia claims to not remember him from the plane.

ANA: How come nobody saw you on the plane, Nathan?

NATHAN: I was in the lavatory.

ANA: For 2 hours?

NATHAN: I don't remember seeing you on the plane, Ana-Lucia.

ANA: That's because you weren't on it.

(And I never got a chance to thank you for that great catch on the MRI pic. Really cool...)

Hey KTDA Dawn-- don't forget, Nathan says he was in the bathroom when Ana-Lucia claims to not remember him from the plane.

This could prove Nathan was on the plane. Hmmmm:cool:




(And I never got a chance to thank you for that great catch on the MRI pic. Really cool...)


No problem "This is a Team Effort" :biggrin:

I have a little figurine of Figment! And no one I ever knew had a clue who he was either!
There did seem to be a lot of people in the bathrooms. How many are on usually on those planes?

Hey KTDA Dawn-- don't forget, Nathan says he was in the bathroom when Ana-Lucia claims to not remember him from the plane.

(And I never got a chance to thank you for that great catch on the MRI pic. Really cool...)
bigmouth put a question in to the VIP's about it...we shall see what creative answer they respond with...

bigmouth put a question in to the VIP's about it...we shall see what creative answer they respond with...

Cool, I eagerly await the response-but not as eagerly as I await the next episode
ONE MORE WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a little figurine of Figment! And no one I ever knew had a clue who he was either!
There did seem to be a lot of people in the bathrooms. How many are on usually on those planes?

While I really don't know-Maybe "8" :biggrin:

http://www.oceanic-air.com/seatingchart.htm
I believe if you look at the Oceanic Airlines seating chart they mark the lavartories. Looks like 10

Look what happypixie found!!! on her thread The Box.... (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=30973)
The box hmmm ….
This box was on the table (picture below) at the house Sayid was at playing video games in “the Greater Good” then here is the same box in the bunker??

this is from The greater good.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...00_000_030.jpg (http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/happypixie/NONAME_001_000_000_000_030.jpg)

Next to the projector
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&albu m=829&pos=493 (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=493)

here is a better shot of it.
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&albu m=829&pos=600 (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=600)

Has it been seen any where else???
Wow this box gets around!!! Or it is triplets...

Look what happypixie found!!! on her thread The Box.... (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=30973)

Wow this box gets around!!! Or it is triplets...Yes, that box certainly is getting around. What would it be doing in Wayne and Diane's house too?

Very cool find.

Here I fixed the links that don't work above

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-829-493.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-829-600.html

Wow! I wonder where else that box has been, and what it means about the folks who have it: Wayne and Essam?

They both end up dead...we know that at least...

SO INTERESTING!

Also, interesting that Sayid shows up on the television in the background at the recruiting center when Kate is talking to Sam...

Wow! I wonder where else that box has been, and what it means about the folks who have it: Wayne and Essam?

They both end up dead...we know that at least...

SO INTERESTING!

Exactly...and that epi was so far back...makes me wonder if we've missed it somewhere else. Might be worth looking back at anyone who's "no longer with us"...

Don't open the box. Is this our Pandora's box hidden in plain sight?

Don't open the box. Is this our Pandora's box hidden in plain sight?

Sam, your comment made me think of that line Walt said to Locke: "Mr. Locke don't open that thing!" (paraphrasing) Always assumed he meant the hatch itself (he probably did), but when I read what you said I thought to myself, hmmmmm.....the little box, seemingly innocuous, as you always say "hidden in plain sight"......could that be what Walt was referring to? This probably isn't on target, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Sam, your comment made me think of that line Walt said to Locke: "Mr. Locke don't open that thing!" (paraphrasing) Always assumed he meant the hatch itself (he probably did), but when I read what you said I thought to myself, hmmmmm.....the little box, seemingly innocuous, as you always say "hidden in plain sight"......could that be what Walt was referring to? This probably isn't on target, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

I made a thread about that but I got hardly any response, I think it's either been discussed and dismissed or my thread title was a little vague...

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=30790

Look what happypixie found!!! on her thread The Box.... (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=30973)

Wow this box gets around!!! Or it is triplets...I'm sure this box is on the LLL and it is now the most travelled box around.

Here is a inconsistency that has bothered me before I even knew it was an inconsistency.
The Moon. We do not see the moon until "The Other 48 Days". It is a full moon for the Tailies on the first night of the crash. Our Fusies don't have a moon?

This is the calendar for 2004
New moon First Quarter Full Moon Last Quarter
Day, hour, minutes
SEPT. 14 14 29....SEPT. 21 15 54....SEPT. 28 13 09....OCT. 6 10 12
OCT. 14 2 48.......OCT. 20 21 59.....OCT. 28 3 07......NOV. 5 5 53
NOV. 12 14 27.....NOV. 19 5 50......NOV. 26 20 07.....DEC. 5 0 53
DEC. 12 1 29......DEC. 18 16 40......DEC. 26 15 06


So that is even stranger. The full moon is several days after the crash.......
That goes to the problem with the plane crashing during the daytime instead of at night, if you go by the information that is given in the show. Hum...................

Here is a inconsistency that has bothered me before I even knew it was an inconsistency.
The Moon. We do not see the moon until "The Other 48 Days". It is a full moon for the Tailies on the first night of the crash. Our Fusies don't have a moon?

This is the calendar for 2004
New moon First Quarter Full Moon Last Quarter
Day, hour, minutes
SEPT. 14 14 29....SEPT. 21 15 54....SEPT. 28 13 09....OCT. 6 10 12
OCT. 14 2 48.......OCT. 20 21 59.....OCT. 28 3 07......NOV. 5 5 53
NOV. 12 14 27.....NOV. 19 5 50......NOV. 26 20 07.....DEC. 5 0 53
DEC. 12 1 29......DEC. 18 16 40......DEC. 26 15 06


So that is even stranger. The full moon is several days after the crash.......
That goes to the problem with the plane crashing during the daytime instead of at night, if you go by the information that is given in the show. Hum...................Very interesting nice research for 2004 If in fact it was 2004 :rolleyes: Perhaps it was just icing on the dome to mislead to wrong time frame. What is also strikes me is that it adds to the inconsistency with the tide and now with the moon, in the different locations.
Also the tailees were more in need of the moon light on touch down. They needed to see to rescue others and to see the shore (they get what they need theory)

Sam You are doing another great job of excavating good lost threads

Also the tailees were more in need of the moon light on touch down. They needed to see to rescue others and to see the shore (they get what they need theory)


? not sure what you mean. The Tailies "crashed" (or whatever) during the daytime there was a shot of the full moon sometime during the episode. The moonlight would certainly seem to help "the others" locate the tailies, plus Goodwin's fire.

There are so many new threads everyday and they cover many of the things we discussed a long time ago, in great detail. I figured we better bring them back. I know I forget some of the things we discussed last season and reading the old threads, I smack myself in the head, and say how could you have forgotten that. :biggrin:

I have followed this thread from the beginning and am so impressed! I hesitate to add something slightly different so please be gentle with me, this is my first post.

I believe there is a SOUND inconsistency between episodes 1 & 2 in series 1.

When Kate, Jack and Charlie are in the forward section of the aircraft, as Charlie comes out of the toilet the sound effect of the creature/security system is different from that in the 'previously...' section in episode 2. Please tell me I am wrong.

To change the sound track? I am already watching the damned thing frame by frame as it is, should I be comparing all the sound stuff as well?

I have followed this thread from the beginning and am so impressed! I hesitate to add something slightly different so please be gentle with me, this is my first post.

I believe there is a SOUND inconsistency between episodes 1 & 2 in series 1.

When Kate, Jack and Charlie are in the forward section of the aircraft, as Charlie comes out of the toilet the sound effect of the creature/security system is different from that in the 'previously...' section in episode 2. Please tell me I am wrong.

To change the sound track? I am already watching the damned thing frame by frame as it is, should I be comparing all the sound stuff as well?You might want to check the Whispers thread. They have some real tech wizards over there and they have been separating out all the tracks of the whispers and translating all the variations.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=696591#post696591

? not sure what you mean. The Tailies "crashed" (or whatever) during the daytime there was a shot of the full moon sometime during the episode. The moonlight would certainly seem to help "the others" locate the tailies, plus Goodwin's fire.

There are so many new threads everyday and they cover many of the things we discussed a long time ago, in great detail. I figured we better bring them back. I know I forget some of the things we discussed last season and reading the old threads, I smack myself in the head, and say how could you have forgotten that. :biggrin: You are certainly correct I must of had a case of Lost erased memory or a total eclipse of brain
I guess all the moon talk made me think of A Moon for the Misbegotten (I would love to see Terry do O'Neill especially playing James Tyrone)

Which even though not relevant refocused me back on the Lost parentage.
mis·be·got·ten (msb-gtn)
adj.
1.
a. Of, relating to, or being a child or children born to unmarried parents.
b. Not lawfully obtained: misbegotten wealth.
2. Having an improper basis or origin; ill-conceived: misbegotten ideas about education.

Note quite a visual inconsistency, but a auditory one: Charlie is singing a Kink's song, He's Evil (http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_kinks/hes_evil.html), at the beginning:

He's got wit he's got charm.
But when he gets rough he'll break your arm.
He's got taste, manners and grace,
But when he gets tough he'll slit your face.
He'll buy you jewels, expensive clothes,

but note, Charlie changes the word "clothes" to "shoes." Perhaps another shoe/soul (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=29401) reference? Also, this song is from the Kink's album "Preservation Act II" (this probably doesn't belong on this thread, but I thought it was interesting). There is a song on this album that I think some of you might be interested in: "Artificial Man" (http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_kinks/artificial_man.html) (Any transhumanists (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=30126) in here??)

The pistol that "Zeke" is holding to Kate's neck appears to be a German Luger. I distinctly heard him **** this gun while holding on to Kate. Although not seen, it was heard.

Will need a gun expert to verify this. But, I believe it takes two hands to **** one of those pistols. One holding the gun and the other hand pulling back on the cocking mechanism.
I do not think he let go of Kate just to **** the pistol.

Nothing revealing or leading into anything. Just something I noticed and thought appropriate to this thread.

ETA. Hmmm... got stars for that word.
Meaning to draw the hammer of (a firearm) back and set for firing; also : to set (the trigger) for firing

In S2 23rd Psalm, when Eko first goes to see his brother at the church, and the woman with the Mary statues is outside:

As he walks by the woman toward the church, he's wearing a silver-colored dangly earring in his right ear...

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=839&pos=191

But in subsequent shots from the same visit:

His right ear has no earring:

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=839&pos=196

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=839&pos=201

He has an earring in his left ear, but I am unsure whether it is the same earring, or he had that one in his left ear in the opening shots:

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=839&pos=205

I'm not sure, in general, if the lost-media screencaps are 100% in the right sequence, but I noticed this in the epi, as did someone who started a thread about it. Definitely no right earring outside the church, and he smiled inside the church.

Goof, joke or clue? Who knows!

The pistol that "Zeke" is holding to Kate's neck appears to be a German Luger. I distinctly heard him **** this gun while holding on to Kate. Although not seen, it was heard.

Will need a gun expert to verify this. But, I believe it takes two hands to **** one of those pistols. One holding the gun and the other hand pulling back on the cocking mechanism.
I do not think he let go of Kate just to **** the pistol.

Nothing revealing or leading into anything. Just something I noticed and thought appropriate to this thread.

ETA. Hmmm... got stars for that word.
Meaning to draw the hammer of (a firearm) back and set for firing; also : to set (the trigger) for firingYes, Bitch (female dog) will bring up Vincent. Circumstances used to bring up cirfairydustances. There's a list it's pretty funny.

Sam placed this in the 2008 thread, but I think it belongs here as well: what's up with the date on the x-ray? (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=887&pos=29) Goof?

I think it is written in military style, day month year

25 08 04 August 25th, 2004

What about the line:

123 F/105y

Does it mean: Female - 105 years old?

I'm sorry. That's not the date you were talkikng about. 16 November 2005? huh? Sorry, I haven't eaten all day.

St. Francis M.C. West where is this x-ray from

Sam placed this in the 2008 thread, but I think it belongs here as well: what's up with the date on the x-ray? (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=887&pos=29) Goof?
There's been speculation on several threads, but Javi said today
"sadly another glitch - not the result of time travel..."
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=33581

There's been speculation on several threads, but Javi said today
"sadly another glitch - not the result of time travel..."
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=33581
Hee! Yeah--I saw that St. Francis Medical Center is a real hospital in Los Angeles. Ah well!

This is sort of a contradiction but also a visual inconsistency. In the Pilot Part II, in a flashback, Charlie runs to the bathroom before the plane crashes. He smashes his head on the cieling, runs out and straps himself into the nearest seat.
Now, in the Pilot Part I, we see that the bathroom Charlie left his drugs in was right in back of the cockpit. (Assuming that he wasn't puking and was getting his drugs out of the toilet.)
So there's the contradiction. Charlie ran out of the bathroom and grabbed the nearest seat to the bathroom right behind the cockpit. The front end of the plane in that episode had a good number of rows and I don't recall Charlie running back very far. So, if Charlie did indeed grab the nearest seat to the bathroom right behind the cockpit, he would not be in the same section as the others. He would be dead in the front end of the plane.

I agree, there is something funny going on with Eko's ear ring in the 23rd Psalm when he is talking to the woman selling the statutes.

He is only wearing one earring dureing the entire scene and it switches from his right ear to his left ear.

Some people are stationary, tendin to their wounds or others, then there are some people in the scenes that are running around like they are being chased-In particular there is a young girl in her early 20's long brown hair and light blue shirt and jeans - I see her run throuh just about every scene - Now she may be looking for someone she was on the plane with, she is really bookin' it and soesnt appear to be looking for anyone but running from someone.

That's BSSG (BlueStripedShirtGirl), a real pretty extra played by Faith Fay. She's all over the place, esp. in walkabout, she's next to Walt in Sydney when he's playing gameboy at the airport, she's coming down the stairs behind Jack when he's whining about his dead Father.

Turd, I never thot Charlie went with Jack and Kate to retrieve his junk. I thought he already had it on him and just wanted a wee snort right then and there.

I have a theory about all this shifting props and whatnot. We have the whole yin/yang light/dark black/white thing going on that has yet to be fully comprehended. I think the Island is God, or Eden, or something metphorically similar. I think Locke thinks this also-which is the reason he named Adam and Eve. I think some type of struggle between good and evil is taking place, or maybe that was the subject of the original experiment on the Island-but we are somehow watching two TV shows and don't know it. Like mirror images, maybe? Maybe the incident involved the magnetism and a nuclear meltdown that created some rip in a space-time wall that opened up a door to a single alternate reality? And we are seeing bits of the other reality now and then? Remember MIRROR/MIRROR on the original startrek? An alternate universe where some things were the same but not others? Didn't someone affiliated with the show say to check out the stars and someone said the constellations were wrong? Sorry, but I used to read a lot of sci-fi when I was younger.

There's been speculation on several threads, but Javi said today
"sadly another glitch - not the result of time travel..."
http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=33581TR should we start a thread for confirmed goofs?

I still think it's strange that it does look like an x-ray from a 105 year old female. I'm going to have another look at the scene. Could these x-rays/CAT Scan have been there already and that the larger x-ray belong to the Italian gentleman? http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-887-5.html You can see there are several different ones on the board and we see Christian adding the one they are looking at, after the opening shot.

Going to rewatch.

There also seems to be a problem with the tail number on the Beechcraft. On take off Large tail numbers
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-839-488.html
at crash small and different tail numbers.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-839-483.html

The plane is turned and flipped but that's exactly where the tail numbers should be.

I have noticed inconsistensies, too... several small things here and there...but I usually sleep after watching the episode, and, unlike most people, things dissappear in my sleep. So, I have no clue what was a tad different. I do remember an instance where I yelled at the TV for some discontinuity or another...or maybe it was Jack and Kate's make out...Anywho...I wouldn't fuss about it...and the fact that there are discontinuities makes the plot more flexible...more twists to look forward to...

Tootles n hearts,
Rosie

Yes, but I think these are ones we are supposed to notice. Considering the scenes are very close together and numbers are very large and then small. Why? still working on that.

From a thread in F+W I started called "Megan's nurse - flip flop"...server too busy to get link (sorry).

When Charlie visits Liam's newborn daughter (Megan) in the hospital nursery, there is
a flip flop. As the nurse is covering the baby, her watch and ring are on the right hand and wrist. Then they are on the left. It also looks like the side of the bed she is on changes oddly; it doesn't seem like it's because she moved to the other side. We see her walk away in a reflection.

There's quite a few oddities in the filming of LOST, aren't there? If it's not done by error (I think not), for fun/interest, to be avant-garde, or to call attention to something about the plot/story, then I think it might be to cause a (subliminal) sense of unease or abnormal reality.

There's quite a few oddities in the filming of LOST, aren't there? If it's not done by error (I think not), for fun/interest, to be avant-garde, or to call attention to something about the plot/story, then I think it might be to cause a (subliminal) sense of unease or abnormal reality.

I noticed the flip flop, too. That's a very good insight TR!

Here's another one, watch Exodus part one, when the airline offical opens the Halliburton the number on the lock is 202. In WTCMB when Sawyer is trying to pick the lock, the number on the lock is 206? Why? And we have a close up on each, why bother if we weren't supposed to notice the number?

Lost-media doesn't have a screen cap for Exodus, checking for one for WTCMB.

Screen cap doesn't work.

Here's another one, watch Exodus part one, when the airline offical opens the Halliburton the number on the lock is 202. In WTCMB when Sawyer is trying to pick the lock, the number on the lock is 206? Why? And we have a close up on each, why bother if we weren't supposed to notice the number?

Lost-media doesn't have a screen cap for Exodus, checking for one for WTCMB.

That's interesting...especially since 2+0+2 = 4, and 2+0+6 = 8.... hmmm, I don't think it was a mistake...

That's interesting...especially since 2+0+2 = 4, and 2+0+6 = 8.... hmmm, I don't think it was a mistake...I did the math too. But it could explain why Kate's plane didn't have any numbers on it before it arrived on the island and after it arrived on the island 5025 appeared on it. Also that the Marshal had the key that would open up the other case????? Could this explain Kate's reaction to the plane? That it looks like her plane but it's not?

This plane is also the one that looks the closest to the one we saw in Charlie's dream with the Angels.

briolette posed this on Tib's thread and I added the bold face:

Quote:
...the Van Allen Belt forms what is called the South Atlantic Anomaly (http://www.astronomycafe.net/qadir/q525.html). Satellites and other spacecraft passing through this region of space actually enter the Van Allen radiation belt and are bombarded by protons exceeding energies of 10 million electron volts at a rate of 3000 'hits' per square centimeter per second. This can produce 'glitches' in astronomical data, problems with the operation of on-board electronic systems, and premature aging of computer, detector and other spacecraft components.

The Hubble Space Telescope passes through the 'SAA' for 10 successive orbits each day, and spends nearly 15 percent of its time in this hostile region. Astronauts are also affected by this region which is said to be the cause of peculiar 'shooting stars' seen in the visual field of astronauts.

Project Argus (http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/whtrap1.html). They were trying to create an artificial radiation belt. Were they trying to "balance" earth or just create a responsive system for their technology. In any case the anomoly is there and it drifts (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=2mnfkg9h0wr6h?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=South+Atlantic+Anomaly&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc07a&linktext=South%20Atlantic%20Anomaly). (Like our little island, or is our island caught in it?)

Could something like this explain the plane crashes, and the age/appearance inconsistencies, like the medicine cabinet and THE button? And the water leak near the window?

ETA BearaceDougie posted this elsewhere after epi "The Long Con" aired:

(in a thread about upcoming epi "One of Them"):

The Clock in the Preview is a different Clock then in the Swan Hatch

Swan Hatch clock is White with Black Numbers and has 5 Numbers
Preview clock is Black with White Numbers and has 3 Numbers

2 Diffferent CLocks... Cant explain Why

ETA screencap from preview (may not even be in next epi though):
[/URL]http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=957&pos=20
[URL="http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=957&pos=20"]
(http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=957&pos=20)

Did anyone notice the darts sticking out of the dartboard? I could swear that they were not in the dartboard in early scenes of "One of Them" but were there when Sayid came out of the armory.

any one notice that Locke when he lies on the ground in the last episode and the mostoer grows closer that he faces different directions and the images in his eyes change.
you have to really pay attention to that .
also there is a mirror image at a point when jack is holding lock. you have to do frame to frame. it is when the smoke comes from the explosion.

any one notice that Locke when he lies on the ground in the last episode and the mostoer grows closer that he faces different directions and the images in his eyes change.
you have to really pay attention to that .
also there is a mirror image at a point when jack is holding lock. you have to do frame to frame. it is when the smoke comes from the explosion.http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=11039&page=120 you might want to add the mirror image to this thread.

Here's an oldie but a goodie I found courtesy of the LLL: What's up with the handcuffs?

The cuffs Walt found. (http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x02-pilot2/pilot2caps-063.jpg)

The cuffs on Jin. (http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x06-house/house490.jpg)

Here's an oldie but a goodie I found courtesy of the LLL: What's up with the handcuffs?

The cuffs Walt found. (http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x02-pilot2/pilot2caps-063.jpg)

The cuffs on Jin. (http://lost-media.com/modules/coppermine/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x06-house/house490.jpg)I've asked that question many times and we finally determined that it must be the handcuffs that the Marshal refers to that are supposed to be in his jacket pocket.

The pistol that "Zeke" is holding to Kate's neck appears to be a German Luger. I distinctly heard him **** this gun while holding on to Kate. Although not seen, it was heard.

Will need a gun expert to verify this. But, I believe it takes two hands to **** one of those pistols. One holding the gun and the other hand pulling back on the cocking mechanism.
I do not think he let go of Kate just to **** the pistol.

Nothing revealing or leading into anything. Just something I noticed and thought appropriate to this thread.

ETA. Hmmm... got stars for that word.
Meaning to draw the hammer of (a firearm) back and set for firing; also : to set (the trigger) for firing

The luger would require two hands to load or prepare for firing, but most tv shows get gun related sounds wrong, with the sounds of loading being the most common mistake.

I'm torn on the suject of visual inconsistencies in the show. Some, like the table lamp, and the slightly different Marvin Candle's seem like clues rather than mistakes. Many others seem like genuine mistakes. I was struck by the sheer number of apparent mistakes, but how many shows in the history of tv have been picked apart on web sites like this one, with screen captures and instant comparisons? Much like everything else in this show, it may well be impossible to tell whats important and whats not until an episode airs that gives us more data to work with.

i originally posted these screencaps in general theories but todell pointed me to this thread.

the first one from "adrift" shows the red cabinet to be very old and dirty.

the second one from "orientation" the cabinet looks pretty new!

i don't believe this is a production error.i can't wrap my head around it TBH:redface: :biggrin:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/chris1977/bscap0000.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/chris1977/bscap0002.jpg

i originally posted these screencaps in general theories but todell pointed me to this thread.

the first one from "adrift" shows the red cabinet to be very old and dirty.

the second one from "orientation" the cabinet looks pretty new!

i don't believe this is a production error.i can't wrap my head around it TBH:redface: :biggrin:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/chris1977/bscap0000.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/chris1977/bscap0002.jpg Thank you for adding them to the long baffeling list.

i originally posted these screencaps in general theories but todell pointed me to this thread.

the first one from "adrift" shows the red cabinet to be very old and dirty.

the second one from "orientation" the cabinet looks pretty new!

i don't believe this is a production error.i can't wrap my head around it TBH:redface: :biggrin:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/chris1977/bscap0000.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/chris1977/bscap0002.jpg
i'd go with production error.. i read somewhere they rebuilt that set at least once, if not twice

i'd go with production error.. i read somewhere they rebuilt that set at least once, if not twiceYes, we've heard that many times, but things like the medicine cabinet are set dressing, they can be taken down and moved to the new set. Why change them, when they are well aware how many people are looking for things like this? There are many other things, like the Mural having changes on it between Adrift and Orientation and continuing to change. http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~andorfc/iowa_mural.html

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-736-235.html Adrift Checkered floor, No Dharma Logo on wall, Leak over booth.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-829-600.html What Kate Did. Who would put up the Dharma logo? Floor changed, leak over booth fixed. New medicine cabinet.

At the end of the Long Con, when Hurley and Sayid are testing the new radio, Sayid makes the comment that the music could be coming from anywhere and just before Hurley says "or any time" a tiny orb of light lands on Hurley's upper lip. Then he says "just kidding dude"

While I realize there is a campfire burning right in front of him, there doesnt appear to be much in the way of other sparks flying around.

I just mention it because it made me think of ghost hunters when they are looking for ghosts and a little orb of light will go floating through the scene.

Maybe it was tinkerbell:biggrin:

I can't believe all these VI'S are production errors,KLJ.

The "prop master" will never get work again!!!:biggrin:

About the change of set.if this happened,wouldn't they have done it between seasons?

It would be pretty dumb to wait three months,then change sets between ep1-2 of season 2!(if they indeed changed sets)

Yes, we've heard that many times, but things like the medicine cabinet are set dressing, they can be taken down and moved to the new set. Why change them, when they are well aware how many people are looking for things like this? There are many other things, like the Mural having changes on it between Adrift and Orientation and continuing to change. .
i'm not going to go on a hunt to find where i read it but it is my understanding that at some point in time they had both locations set up at once.. they were filming at one location and building the other one.. basically they needed 2 of everything..

I don't think these things has nothing to do with actual storyline. Don't you realize that your legs are being pulled by the story writers and/or filming & staging crew. OK there might be some funny explanation at the end why these things happen. But I really think this has nothing to do with the "final solution". Do you actually read like Philip K. Dick books with magnifier and count how many words each page contains etc?

(added this)
ps. I am sure that Shannon isn't so nuts that she wouldn't have noticed if a necklace suddenly disappears from her hand ;)

I don't think these things has nothing to do with actual storyline. Don't you realize that your legs are being pulled by the story writers and/or filming & staging crew. OK there might be some funny explanation at the end why these things happen. But I really think this has nothing to do with the "final solution". Do you actually read like Philip K. Dick books with magnifier and count how many words each page contains etc?

(added this)
ps. I am sure that Shannon isn't so nuts that she wouldn't have noticed if a necklace suddenly disappears from her hand ;)

i am with you here! but truly many are not paying attention to the obvious.... only time will tell us the truth, and until then we need to stop asking the driver of bus " are we there yet!" LOL
(me included!)
but on your last part, in this land of lost. with all the issues at hand, many may be considering they are going abit nuts and seeing and not seeing things.

i'm not going to go on a hunt to find where i read it but it is my understanding that at some point in time they had both locations set up at once.. they were filming at one location and building the other one.. basically they needed 2 of everything.. But why get different things? Why make the hatch sets different? Why age one and make the other new? If they wanted to recreate the Hatch exactly the way it was, they could have done it, that's their job, it doesn't matter if they change locations or move to a bigger studio or film 6 months later, if they wanted it to look the same it could happen. They take photographs of every little thing for continunity. They made it different for a reason.

Forget about that. Explain the constantly changing Mural. They want us to notice.

They made it different for a reason.
i don't think there is any purposeful meaning

Forget about that. Explain the constantly changing Mural. They want us to notice.the mural may or may not change for a reason.. only time will tell

As for the hatch changes, could it be possible that Desmond used the time between the hatch opening (explosion) and Kate's and Locke's arrival to change things, making everything older and uncared for? That would go in the same way as Zeke trying look shaby and primitive and thus hide the modernity of all? Desmond had at least three hours to do the change...He was recently bathed in the beging and very grubby when he faced jack. Any thoughts?

As for the hatch changes, could it be possible that Desmond used the time between the hatch opening (explosion) and Kate's and Locke's arrival to change things, making everything older and uncared for? That would go in the same way as Zeke trying look shaby and primitive and thus hide the modernity of all? Desmond had at least three hours to do the change...He was recently bathed in the beging and very grubby when he faced jack. Any thoughts? That's interesting and it sort of makes sense. At some point the Dharma plaque got put up on the wall after Locke, Kate and Jack went down into the hatch. I doubt any of them did it and I don't think there was any time for Desmond to do it.

My point of view is that nothing the producers or writers say should be accepted as the complete story. The nature of Lost is a mystery and the last thing they are gonna do is confirm for us when we speculate correctly on plot points that get close to things that might not be planned to come out until season 3 or even beyond. I've heard that they say this isn't about ghosts, that this isn't about time travel, that it isn't about aliens, this isn't purgotory or limbo - at the same time, within the show itself, they have continued to push many of these buttons. Anyone with a decent knowledge of Dante can see that this show is very consciously riffing off of Dante whether they want to admit it or not right now. TPTB have introduced the ghost/being dead issue several times themselves in so many shows that it would take an hour to document every occurance. The imagery that they are hiding within some of these shots - particularly the animalistic ones that don't look exactly like a normal animal - are being put into the show by the writers and producers

Second, a large part of the show is working with the idea of games, multiple visual perspectives, and deceptions. It only makes sense that TPTB would also engage in deceptions - it's part of the game. Why give the game away? Do you really believe, as the producer's suggested, that the number's can't be explained? Go check out some websites on "L33t" (hacker text language)and see just how many messages you can make that seem to directly relate to the show - I don't think its a coincidence. At the same time - why give away too much info when you've got a 5 or 6 year story arc? They start confirming this theory or that theory and the people on this board will be able to extrapolate events into season 4 or 5.

So, I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind who want to believe that everything that the TPTB say is canonical - but I'm taking the approach that the only thing that means anything is what's in the show itself.

dave

javi answered a question about the changing record players etc...he said as far as he knew it was a props mistake.

it does happen... a lot of times different crews will be sent to take pick ups than do the main scenes and their editors work REALLY late into the night.

My point of view is that nothing the producers or writers say should be accepted as the complete story. The nature of Lost is a mystery and the last thing they are gonna do is confirm for us when we speculate correctly on plot points that get close to things that might not be planned to come out until season 3 or even beyond. I've heard that they say this isn't about ghosts, that this isn't about time travel, that it isn't about aliens, this isn't purgotory or limbo - at the same time, within the show itself, they have continued to push many of these buttons. Anyone with a decent knowledge of Dante can see that this show is very consciously riffing off of Dante whether they want to admit it or not right now. TPTB have introduced the ghost/being dead issue several times themselves in so many shows that it would take an hour to document every occurance. The imagery that they are hiding within some of these shots - particularly the animalistic ones that don't look exactly like a normal animal - are being put into the show by the writers and producers

Second, a large part of the show is working with the idea of games, multiple visual perspectives, and deceptions. It only makes sense that TPTB would also engage in deceptions - it's part of the game. Why give the game away? Do you really believe, as the producer's suggested, that the number's can't be explained? Go check out some websites on "L33t" (hacker text language)and see just how many messages you can make that seem to directly relate to the show - I don't think its a coincidence. At the same time - why give away too much info when you've got a 5 or 6 year story arc? They start confirming this theory or that theory and the people on this board will be able to extrapolate events into season 4 or 5.

So, I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind who want to believe that everything that the TPTB say is canonical - but I'm taking the approach that the only thing that means anything is what's in the show itself.

dave Exactly.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=565364&highlight=cigar#post565364 Complete Question and Answer from Javi. As always open for intrepretation.

I think this should be posted here. I posted in Figurative and Literal Mirror Images, too, but both threads deal with this issue.... Mods, be forgiving. :cool:

In the 2/20 Official Lost Podcast, Bryan Burk discusses easter eggs and specifically mentions visual inconsistencies:
He says that sometimes in post-production, they will flip film around to make the scene look better for some reason, etc., and it could make a person's shirt look backwards. But they have to be really careful now when they do that, because they realized that on the internet, people were searching so closely for easter eggs, that they were reading into stuff like that... stuff they never intended to be easter eggs. So I think that could be the answer about Jack's moving tattoo and Locke's moving scar and Candle's reversed black and white tie and exit sign, etc. etc. etc...

I think this should be posted here. I posted in Figurative and Literal Mirror Images, too, but both threads deal with this issue.... Mods, be forgiving. :cool:

In the 2/20 Official Lost Podcast, Bryan Burk discusses easter eggs and specifically mentions visual inconsistencies:
He says that sometimes in post-production, they will flip film around to make the scene look better for some reason, etc., and it could make a person's shirt look backwards. But they have to be really careful now when they do that, because they realized that on the internet, people were searching so closely for easter eggs, that they were reading into stuff like that... stuff they never intended to be easter eggs. So I think that could be the answer about Jack's moving tattoo and Locke's moving scar and Candle's reversed black and white tie and exit sign, etc. etc. etc... I mentioned this on Mirror Images too. Marvin Candle's tie, flipping the film, won't change the order of the colors.

Interesting: the poloroid of Hurley and Dave:

The moment the photo was taken. (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1033&pos=297) It is daytime, and there appear to be at least two people in the background.

The Polaroid. (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1033&pos=442) Is it nightime? Where is the other guy in the background?

Now, I know that the light conditions may be something that the directors controlled, to make the shots come out better; but it could also be a hint that the photos were indeed either altered or switched.

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&albu m=1033&pos=301 (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1033&pos=301)

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&albu m=1033&pos=300 (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1033&pos=300)

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&albu m=1033&pos=297 (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=1033&pos=297)

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup &pid=65552&fullsize=1 (http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimagepopup&pid=65552&fullsize=1)

There are several differences...

The position of the man in the background.
The amount of celery and its color.
The positions of the checkers.
The position of the souflette cup.
You can see the light from the camera's flash in the window in the last shot.

So it looks like the poloroid Hurley was shown was taken at a different time.

did the camera flash?
but yes, serious case of difference.

You guys have seen this right?

http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=43215

This one is over.

OK, Kell, but I for one would not go to an actor for an answer on this one. Every interview I have seen with any of the performers on this show have said that they have no idea what the mysteries are, and that they are kept in the dark deliberately by the writers. So if this was intentionally done, why would they tell Jorge?

Furthermore, if what I am suggesting is true: that the photo is a fake, the fakers would go through those lengths to make sure that the details were the same too. And maybe futz them up.

So, I, for one, am not closing the book on this one.

Ok. But let me ask you this: did you think Shannon was stabbed by an other or shot by Ana Lucia?

Oh, I was pretty sure she was shot by Ana. I was almost swayed by the believers that the Others shot her, but ultimately I knew that in terms of storytelling, having Ana shoot her was drammatically more compelling.

Oh, I was pretty sure she was shot by Ana. I was almost swayed by the believers that the Others shot her, but ultimately I knew that in terms of storytelling, having Ana shoot her was drammatically more compelling.

Isn't it more compelling to have Dave really be imaginary? Thanks for the answer on Shannon! Just checking to see with whom I'm dealing.

Isn't it more compelling to have Dave really be imaginary? Thanks for the answer on Shannon! Just checking to see with whom I'm dealing.

I guess that depends on whether you are a conspiracy addict like I am. If Dave is real, but they are using him to control and manipulate Hurley, makes for pretty good story, as far as I am concerned. (And, by the way, don't jump to too many conclusions about how crazy I am based on Shannon's shooting...I still believe the second Orientation strip was different based on Marvin's tie! :wink1: )

todell: I wanted to make sure you saw my post elsewhere about purported inconsistencies in the two scenes where Hurley's Doctor is photographing Dave and Hurley. Also, a friend pointed out to me that Libby's hair is brown in the mental hospital. It could mean nothing, but it reminds me a bit of Kate's shifting identities....

I still believe the second Orientation strip was different based on Marvin's tie! :wink1: )


NO! Really? But . . . .

NO! Really? But . . . . But what? The tie was different.:eek2:

Sam G, are you a two stripper also? I never would have guessed. But sometimes a cigar . . . .

Sam G, are you a two stripper also? I never would have guessed. But sometimes a cigar . . . . explodes!!!!! Sometimes TPTB can't tell you the truth because it would ruin the show.

sometimes I think you and I are the only two posters that will accept the idea that TPTB will lie, or at least not tell the whole truth, when it comes to any public comments about the show.

dr

explodes!!!!! Sometimes TPTB can't tell you the truth because it would ruin the show.

I guess that depends on whether you are a conspiracy addict like I am. If Dave is real, but they are using him to control and manipulate Hurley, makes for pretty good story, as far as I am concerned.
I too am a believer in a vast conspiracy at the heart of Lost, and it would make for a pretty good story if it were as speculated above. However, I don't believe Hurley was manipulated by the conspiracy at any time before he won the lottery. That's because I think it to be much easier to find, research, and then manipulate a lottery winner than it is to rig a lottery. Those things are so well guarded and watched.

Robert

Corrigendum May 30, 2006: The season finale upset my supposition above. Libby was shown to have met both Hugo and Desmond before Hugo won the lottery. That means she must've been in on the plot before being together with Hugo, which means Hugo was targeted before winning the lottey, which means they did it the hard way by rigging both the lottery and Hugo's playing it.

I personally think that Dave as an accelerated remote viewing projection is a more compelling story in the long-run of the plot of Lost. It fits really well with all the other pre-island things coming to the island: Kate's horse, Christian Shephard, etc.
Just because Dave never existed, doesn't make it all that much more odd to me. Maybe if you're one of the best ARV projecters, you can project yourself to only one person so no one else can see you, and you can even slap the person and throw coconuts at him.

Dharma could have made the horse be projected and even tangible.

Christian was good enough at it (or Dharma was using his dead body) to lead Jack to the fresh water source.

Walt wasn't good enough at it yet so he led Shannon to her death because he was talking backwards and dripping wet, so she couldn't understand him.

Hey, you never know.... :biggrin:

I personally think that Dave as an accelerated remote viewing projection is a more compelling story in the long-run of the plot of Lost. It fits really well with all the other pre-island things coming to the island: Kate's horse, Christian Shephard, etc.
Just because Dave never existed, doesn't make it all that much more odd to me. Maybe if you're one of the best ARV projecters, you can project yourself to only one person so no one else can see you, and you can even slap the person and throw coconuts at him.

Dharma could have made the horse be projected and even tangible.

Christian was good enough at it (or Dharma was using his dead body) to lead Jack to the fresh water source.

Walt wasn't good enough at it yet so he led Shannon to her death because he was talking backwards and dripping wet, so she couldn't understand him.

Hey, you never know.... :biggrin: Walt's mind's eye, he was still learning and his ability to concentrate for so long was probably limited. SAARV
sometimes I think you and I are the only two posters that will accept the idea that TPTB will lie, or at least not tell the whole truth, when it comes to any public comments about the show.

dr There are a few more of us out there.:biggrin:

But what? The tie was different.:eek2:No doubt about it.

But I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest it was the same tie :confused:

I seem to recall we only see it in the closeup, but may be wrong.

Yeah, the stripes are upside down, but that can be done by wearing it backwards, that is you tie it with the short end at the front, not the back. That way the material that makes up the front of the tie is upside down and a strip at the top (normally) would be at the bottom. A lot easier than finding (or making) two ties.

Same result though, a very deliberate act intended to be spotted.

No doubt about it.

But I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest it was the same tie :confused:

I seem to recall we only see it in the closeup, but may be wrong.

Yeah, the stripes are upside down, but that can be done by wearing it backwards, that is you tie it with the short end at the front, not the back. That way the material that makes up the front of the tie is upside down and a strip at the top (normally) would be at the bottom. A lot easier than finding (or making) two ties.

Same result though, a very deliberate act intended to be spotted. Intended to be noticed, because the shirt and the lab coat were also different I believe.

"There are a few more of us out there. " The Whole Truth is not a character requirement in our Lost world. So like I said to Elsie, Beware!! Remember this is their island
Update Turns out Elsie was a clone the real Elsie played by Lobelia is here http://www.roadsideamerica.com/pet/elsie.html :rolleyes:

Although, it is not confirmed there is fixed plumbing in the kitchen area of the hatch, in the end of Maternity Ward, when Henry gets Locke worked up, and John swipes all the dishes from the counter, the Whole Unit moved.

ETA:
Did anyone notice when Jack pushed the button for the first time the counter flashed to '109' first, before setting on '108'?

Are we allowed that there are now reasons why the record player and other things in the hatch have changed? Some of the things have not been explained but when Desmond trashes the hatch certain things didn't survive. Desmond was sure that the blast door would hold when Eko tried to blow it up, like something along those line had happened before and I don't think it had to do with the day he was late punching in the numbers.

In LTDA even the washing machines were different when Desmond was in the hatch with Kelvin.

you know we dont get an answer to why there was bang with desmond was in the good hatch, clean and all. i see it as two things happened. if the washer and dyers are different, are the old ones of kevlin times. and the new of desmonds.
could it be that something is manifesting these items like a hologram but solid. just thinking.

I'm having a difficult time understanding why we're so caught up in Candle's coat and tie. Javi may be elusive, but he seemed pretty clear to me when he said that the film wasn't shot in a single session. The guy who played Candle wouldn't have worn the tie for days on end. My assumption is that some of the stripes on the tie are black above white, and some are white above black, and that the knot simply ended up in a different place when he retied it (though, were it me, I wouldn't have untied it, I just would have loosened it and slipped it over my head, so that it would be the same in the next session). He probably grabbed the lab coat out of a closet full of costumes, and got a different one.

What I'm having a tough time with, having watched it a number of times now, is that, when Danielle shot Fenry with the arrow, it hit pretty much dead center of his back. I recall saying to myself the first time I saw it, "What an odd thing to do, bringing this guy on the scene, then immediately killing him off, because there's no way he's not dead." Next time you see him, though, the arrow has moved a fair distance to the right, and is now poking through his shoulder.

You may want to visit my website at www.LOSTisaGame.com (http://www.LOSTisaGame.com)

Especially the Mistakes page, where I have been collecting a very long list of the visual mistakes in the show.

all_games

...

As for the tie, there must be something there, also. If they were going to shoot a film for the Lost-a-ways to find pieces of, wouldn't they just shoot the entire film, and then make several copies in different stages of re-assembled completion.

I would not think that they would actually make several different films over several different shoots to represent pieces of a supposedly complete film.

But that's just my opinion.

One reason the producers might do different shoots is because plot ideas changed.

The flashback scene with Michelle Rodriguez waiting in line at the airport behind Matthew Fox was a new scene not planned originally.

Don Widmore

In the season 2 finale, Desmond shaves right before he follows Kelvin out of the hatch. When he comes back and gets the "system failure" to stop, his beard looks like it has been growing for days but it has really been a maximum of 108 minutes.

In the season 2 finale, Desmond shaves right before he follows Kelvin out of the hatch. When he comes back and gets the "system failure" to stop, his beard looks like it has been growing for days but it has really been a maximum of 108 minutes.
Think there's any chance he was unconscious some time during his time out of the bunker? I'm convinced the timer was manipulated to hit 0:00 just in time for him to see "system failure" (which is itself a ruse), but now I'm wondering whether his shaving, and Kelvin's making a point of Desmond's shaving, followed by his bearded scene as described above, was a clue planted by the writers that he'd been rendered unconscious (again) while he was out chasing Kelvin. I'll have to review the scene, but from your description it looks much too good to be a continuity error.

Robert

Think there's any chance he was unconscious some time during his time out of the bunker? I'm convinced the timer was manipulated to hit 0:00 just in time for him to see "system failure" (which is itself a ruse), but now I'm wondering whether his shaving, and Kelvin's making a point of Desmond's shaving, followed by his bearded scene as described above, was a clue planted by the writers that he'd been rendered unconscious (again) while he was out chasing Kelvin. I'll have to review the scene, but from your description it looks much too good to be a continuity error.

Robert

I watched that scene again myself. After Desmond shaved, his face was still a little rough, but nowhere near as bearded as it was after he got the system failure to stop. His beard looks like it grew even when he was following Kelvin. Maybe TPTB just didn't pay that much attention to detail, or maybe he was rendered unconscious like you suggested. But how?

I watched that scene again myself. After Desmond shaved, his face was still a little rough, but nowhere near as bearded as it was after he got the system failure to stop. His beard looks like it grew even when he was following Kelvin. Maybe TPTB just didn't pay that much attention to detail, or maybe he was rendered unconscious like you suggested. But how?

If you read my Time Thread it might answer your question. Kelvin leaves ,Desmond panics needs to find out what he should do, goes off island bubble back to real world, gets his instructions, goes back to island bubble. Time runs slower on the island bubble so he could have been gone a couple of days in our time line but only a couple of minutes in island bubble time. What the old saying " in the blink of a eye".

If you read my Time Thread it might answer your question. Kelvin leaves ,Desmond panics needs to find out what he should do, goes off island bubble back to real world, gets his instructions, goes back to island bubble. Time runs slower on the island bubble so he could have been gone a couple of days in our time line but only a couple of minutes in island bubble time. What the old saying " in the blink of a eye".
I'm not going for anything like that, because if he passes thru regions where "time runs slower" or faster, why would it affect only his beard growth? Why wouldn't he also talk slower or faster, walk slower or faster, etc.?

Now that I've had a look back at the scenes, I'm even more perplexed. This is from a not-so-good recording off air, so I don't get that good a look. I'll have much better when the DVDs are out. Anyway, the problem is that Desmond's beard seems to "grow back" (as once illustrated on Mr. Simpson of the famous cartoons) in some of the close-up shots before he even leaves the bunker, while talking to Kelvin. It reaches its maximum length for the "day" when he catches up to Kelvin on the volcanic flats.

On the one hand this whole thing could be mere continuity error. They were said to be in a rush shooting for the season 2 curtain dropper, and it's possible that they needed the actor with visible beard growth for certain scenes that wound up having to be shot close in real time (production time) to the scene in question. If it'd been apparent long enough in advance that that was going to be the case, then the mood-setting shaving scene might've been rewritten to avoid that problem. It could've been, "You've washed your hair every day...." (It takes a lot less time to dry hair than to grow beard.)

OTOH, it's possible that only part of this sequence was continuity error -- that we were indeed to get a clue from beard growth, that shaving wasn't just a mood setter, and that they unfortunately found they needed some scenes shot in the bunker after the actor had grown his beard, and couldn't shave.

P.S. -- I noticed a non-visual inconsistency in that flashback. Kelvin pronounces the name of an alleged persona as, approximately, "Ruzhinski", while Desmond, who supposedly was repeating him (not reading the name), pronounces it "Radzinski". I'm guessing they rehearsed separately, and that the director didn't try to correct the inconsistency of their pronunciations. Locke didn't try to "correct" Desmond's pronunciation to "Calvin" early in the season, so I don't see Desmond trying to back-form "Radzinski" from an imagined spelling.

But what the hell, in my early posts here & at alt.tv.lost after watching the episode once, I was writing "Raditsky" from memory.

Robert

I'm not going for anything like that, because if he passes thru regions where "time runs slower" or faster, why would it affect only his beard growth? Why wouldn't he also talk slower or faster, walk slower or faster, etc.?
...

This is the smartest solution. In the Simpsons this kind of analysis was given the plot device, the "reverse vampires." In fact, there are all manner of extremes one could go through to explain something that make this on-screen analysis meaningless.

Such as "everyone has turned into a reverse vampire."

What if, for instance, the characters now have control to grow their hair at will- Jack's beard is always the same length, as is Sawyer's, etc. Because part of the sickness allows for total control over hair growth.

Finding an anomaly isn't the best way to start for looking for themes, finding similarities in different situations that can be traced back to the pilot (like when and where the whispers occur, or the black smoke monster) is always a good way to go because the producers put it in there from the get-go. Not that they can't change their minds, but you know. Occam's Razor- Matthew Fox's agent wishes Matthew to look consistent in all shots so his beard stays the same. That's the magic Occam's Razor. ;)

Don

Got the Season II DVD's and watched some of the earlier episodes this weekend.

If I had to guess, I would say this visual inconsistency is a production error...

In Adrift, Michael had Sawyer's gun as Sawyer swam over to the pontoon part of the original boat they built. After he fired the gun at the shark & started screaming for Sawyer, he put the gun down on the raft (about 35:40 into the DVD). He paddled over to the pontoon & when Sawyer appeared, Sawyer pulled him closer and he climbed onto the pontoon. Michael never gave Sawyer the gun back. At one point (36:07), Michael is scrambling off the old raft & you can see the gun on the old raft just below Michael's right foot. I think you can even see the gun on the old raft as it drifts away.(36:15).

As we all know, Sawyer had the gun when they were captured by the Tallies.

I'm sure the difficulty of filming those ocean scenes raises the odds of a visual inconsistency occurring - but thought I'd post since it is a visual inconsistency nonetheless.

Gotta agree, Punky. And after watching MOSMOF commentary from TPTB, it sounds like the inconsistancies within the Swan hatch were continuity errors or things that they just never thought the general audience would pick up on (or did I learn some of that from the bonus disc feature on the hatch? Maybe from oth features.). They had lots of long conversations about what the hatch should look like, before they constructed it. And it sounds like, even after it was constructed, and they'd started filming, they wanted it to look less tidy, less new, more dated and dingy. Hence how the hatch almost seemed to age within the first few episodes. Watching generally, not closely, I never notice, it's only with my special Fuselage glasses on :eek1: that I notice. :rolleyes: So I gotta believe them that it wasn't really a clue.

Plus, Jack Bender explaining that he painted the mural in a matter of, like, four hours, and just painted different things that came to mind, that were related to things that Damon and Carlton had filled him in on--things he knew that would later be revealed about the plot, the Others, and what Desmond went through on the Island. He didn't really pay attention to whether or not it would make sense for Desmond to be painting those things....

Sigh.
Doesn't make it less fun, though, to spend hours trying to decipher the meaning. :cool:

Also, P, you should watch on the 7th disc the Lost on location feature about Adrift...

Take a gander at the what we missed eye color thread. That is some interesting info on the eyes also Toddell.

Todell,

I updated my mistakes page on my site you might want to take a look at it. You might also want to take a look at the Playing and Roles pages. Lots of new info added.

Still new to all this, but I have spent the past hour getting caught up on all the craziness that goes on in the world of Lost. You were all talking about MirrorMirror for a time and then the topic turned away from that theory, but I think some more thought should be going into that. I haven't figured out how add in parts of sites I've sen elsewhere but some other points to add to your theory is the Russian guy in the Arctic seems to lok very similar to Jack, not sure what that means. But with all the things that seem the same but are different (like the lamps or he record players) could be a clue to show us where they are going with this.
I haven't read it yet, but I heard Bad Twin does have quite a few hints or clues in the book and when reading the synopsis about the book it talks about a form of mirror world where friends and enemies are hard to tell apart? Sorry a little confusing, but I truely thought you guys were on the tright track and didn't want to lose that.

Still new to all this, but I have spent the past hour getting caught up on all the craziness that goes on in the world of Lost. You were all talking about MirrorMirror for a time and then the topic turned away from that theory, but I think some more thought should be going into that. I haven't figured out how add in parts of sites I've sen elsewhere but some other points to add to your theory is the Russian guy in the Arctic seems to lok very similar to Jack, not sure what that means. But with all the things that seem the same but are different (like the lamps or he record players) could be a clue to show us where they are going with this.
I haven't read it yet, but I heard Bad Twin does have quite a few hints or clues in the book and when reading the synopsis about the book it talks about a form of mirror world where friends and enemies are hard to tell apart? Sorry a little confusing, but I truely thought you guys were on the tright track and didn't want to lose that.

Mirror Images (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=11039&page=130) it's pretty long but worth reading.

Has anyone noticed any problems with names being listed in credits on any of the episodes?

I have found two curious things on the DVD's where names are incorrectly spelled. I am wondering if anyone has noticed anything similar happening in the credits at the end of the episodes each week.

The two things I have found are:

In an interview on the Season 1 DVD, in the section regarding the development of the show, Leee Pinker states " The Island could be, in a way, a dramatic version of a video game. You could find the hatch, but it could take several weeks before you had the proper tools to open the hatch."

While Jeff Pinker is an executive producer for LOST, who the heck is Leee Pinker and why is his name spelled with three e'S

The incorrect and strange spelling of the first name name drove me crazy for almost a full year before I finally figured it out. The only possible explanation is that Leee Pinker is an anagram for LINE KEEPER. A little play on words, as the Executive Producer is the person whose role it is to focus on business matters such as budgets.

The Season 2 DVD provided another curious mistake with names. Eddy Kitsis' name is sometimes listed as Eddy and at at other times it is listed as Edward. Curiously, in two different instances when he appears on screen with Adam Horowitz, their names have been switched.

That's interesting, all_games, especially in light of the goof with the Jason names (Elder, Alder McCormick) that I'm sure you remember from last season. ;)

S3E1

- The items on the breakfast table change positions, from when Kate is approaching the table to when she is seated by Fake Henry (Ben). Watch the ketchup bottle, it's the easiest to see
- Watch Kate's bracelet (or may be an elastic hair band) on her right wrist. It is there as she is walking up to Fake Henry's (Ben's) breakfast table and then is gone from her wrist later
- Also watch the beach hut itself. As Kate approaches there are visible cross bars in every third part of the hut. When Ben/Fake Henry seats her, three sections of the hut are shown and there are no cross bars visible
- Christian Shephard is shown driving a 2007 Mercedes up to the hotel (this was confirmed as a 2007 model by Mercedes-Benz of San Diego)
-The people seated in the AA meeting change places, watch the man in the dark shirt and the lady in red. Another man suddenly appears seated between the two of them.
- When the Others look up at the plane breaking up in the air, the wings fall off. But in S1E1 both wings were still with the fuselage. There is also a difference in altitude. The plane is flying much higher in S1E1.
- The yellow bowl on the shelf in Juliet's house disappears between shots and the items on the coffee table switch positions.

S3E2
-The same scene of the Others boarding the sailboat is shown twice. But, the second time it is shown, the shot is obviously flipped

- Jin is shown getting off the elevator on the second floor, but the room number on Jae Lee's room does not begin with a 2, it is room 1516

- The screen in front of the fireplace changes from when we see the ballerina drop to when we see Sun run out of the room

- When Jin is in the hotel and is about to kill Jae Lee, he holds a pillow to Jae Lee's head and presses his gun against it. At first, the gun is pointing to Lee's cheekbone, but when it cuts to Jae Lee as he is sobbing "I'm sorry. I'm sorry", the gun is much lower, and pointing to his throat. Cut back to Jin, and you can see the gun is once again pointing to Jae Lee's face.

Absolutely, notice his hair which evidently black in the 'missing splice' and greyish in the original movie.

Yes, the hair, jacket, and lighting appear different--the tie, however, is the same tie just tied a little differently making the pattern appear out of place from one picture to the next. A whole lot of speculation over 2 different shooting times, but I'm with you. On to more important minutia...

I think this thread needs to be looked at again now that we are dealing with the possibilities of different time lines.

The most glaring visual inconsistency to date was Jack's backpack in the Deux Ex Machina beach scene with Sawyer.

It switched from this one (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-358-192.html) to this one. (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-358-201.html)
Back-and-forth, back-and-forth, several times.
There is a pattern of sorts. In Jack's perspective shots, it's the wide-strap style. In Sawyer's perspective shots, it's old narrow-strap style.

It does not appear to be an error. The scene, which was fairly long and long-winded, seems blocked to emphasize the back pack. Jack's hair style and beard change with the backpacks, though, so it's entirely possible they had to refilm under pressure..

I don't see any difference between the backpacks. Certainly nothing that could be called "glaring".

I don't see any difference between the backpacks. Certainly nothing that could be called "glaring".

Perhaps you accidentally clicked twice on the same image link? "Glaring" is a subjective description but the two backpacks are not even similar in style.
One is nylon, green/black/white, with wide padded straps, and is about 1/3 larger than the other, which is vinyl or leather, all black, with narrow unpadded straps. One has one exterior zip compartment and a wide green loop; the other has two exterior flapped pockets that snap, and a narrow black loop.

What if, for instance, the characters now have control to grow their hair at will- Jack's beard is always the same length, as is Sawyer's, etc. Because part of the sickness allows for total control over hair growth.


Hmmm...

Tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a character on the NBC show Heroes who has the special power of self-controlled hair growth? (My memory is a little hazy on this show, but I'm pretty sure about this one.)

And I wouldn't label this special ability as part of a sickness. I would call it an enormous gift.

Hmmm...

Tell me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a character on the NBC show Heroes who has the special power of self-controlled hair growth? (My memory is a little hazy on this show, but I'm pretty sure about this one.)

No-one even remotely close, Candice could change her entire appearance (sort of an optical illusion in reality, she could alter the way people percieved her and the surrounding environment) but no-one had the power of self-controlled hair growth...

If I had that power I think I'd be the most miserable superhero in existence...

NATHAN: I can fly.

HIRO: I can bendu Space and Time.

RICHARD: I can, like, grow my hair.

SYLAR: I don't even want your brain.

Here's a list of all the evolved humans in Heroes and the spin-off material...

http://heroeswiki.com/Evolved_humans

Also, according to either Kelvin or Radzinsky's hidden messages on the BDM...

There is no Sickness

...and...

Quarantine is a hoax

Kelvin and Radzinsky might be questionable as a source but I can believe both points.

No-one even remotely close, Candice could change her entire appearance (sort of an optical illusion in reality, she could alter the way people percieved her and the surrounding environment) but no-one had the power of self-controlled hair growth...

If I had that power I think I'd be the most miserable superhero in existence...



Here's a list of all the evolved humans in Heroes and the spin-off material...

http://heroeswiki.com/Evolved_humans



Rumours are swirling on the special powers of all the new characters for Heroes' second season. Among the most talked about of their super-human abilities:



Can do Spanish to English translations backwards. ("El rotalsnart")
Stutters in morse code.
Does really good card tricks.
Excels in golf without cheating.
Walk, and chew gum, AND snap fingers to a claypso beat -- all at the same time.
Do euro to dollar currency conversions in head (to within 10 percent of current value).
Charge cell phones and PDAs with electromagnetic bodyheat
Blow smoke rings out ear.
Eat twenty White Castles hambugers in one seating.
Reheat a cup of coffee, and other favorite hot beverage, with special hot finger.
Recite dialogue from the movie Caddyshack on command.
Break Hank Aaron's homerun record without cheating. (Okay, so that one isn't very believable.)I stopped watching Heroes halfway through this past season, but if these rumors are true then I am back, baby!...Now back to Lost: My favorite Lost visual inconsistency dovetails with the topic of hair (remember that hair growth was what got us going on Heroes and special powers?) and that is how in the first few episodes Sawyer's haircut changed so many times. The producers explained this away as being due to the changing of the cast hairstylist.

Pl--ease. Do they think we are really suppose to by that line of you-know-what? Gimme a break! I'm going with DonWidmore's theory on a special power of self-controlled hair growth...Or there being three Sawyers!!!

Comments?

RICHARD: I can, like, grow my hair.

SYLAR: I don't even want your brain.

I'm sorry.....this one really got me....I still haven't stopped laughing. How many people would you like to say this to.

"I don't even want your brain."

Rumours are swirling on the special powers of all the new characters for Heroes' second season. Among the most talked about of their super-human abilities:



Can do Spanish to English translations backwards. ("El rotalsnart")
Stutters in morse code.
Does really good card tricks.
Excels in golf without cheating.
Walk, and chew gum, AND snap fingers to a claypso beat -- all at the same time.
Do euro to dollar currency conversions in head (to within 10 percent of current value).
Charge cell phones and PDAs with electromagnetic bodyheat
Blow smoke rings out ear.
Eat twenty White Castles hambugers in one seating.
Reheat a cup of coffee, and other favorite hot beverage, with special hot finger.
Recite dialogue from the movie Caddyshack on command.
Break Hank Aaron's homerun record without cheating. (Okay, so that one isn't very believable.)I stopped watching Heroes halfway through this past season, but if these rumors are true then I am back, baby!...Now back to Lost: My favorite Lost visual inconsistency dovetails with the topic of hair (remember that hair growth was what got us going on Heroes and special powers?) and that is how in the first few episodes Sawyer's haircut changed so many times. The producers explained this away as being due to the changing of the cast hairstylist.

Pl--ease. Do they think we are really suppose to by that line of you-know-what? Gimme a break! I'm going with DonWidmore's theory on a special power of self-controlled hair growth...Or there being three Sawyers!!!

Comments?holy crap! i'm a Hero! :biggrin:

RICHARD: I can, like, grow my hair.

SYLAR: I don't even want your brain.

I'm sorry.....this one really got me....I still haven't stopped laughing. How many people would you like to say this to.

"I don't even want your brain."
:24: Sam, you beat me to it!! :24:

now back to our regularly scheduled topic.....

Oh, I forgot I have a quote thread.... This certainly makes it.

We all remember the reverse image of the Des/painting in Widmore’s office.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1250-334.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1250-355.html

I’ve wondered about the Buddha….could this be one of those weird cut/paste jobs like we saw in the photo with the Monk/Ms.Hawkings?
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h220/seaque/budda.jpg

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h220/seaque/budda.jpg)

(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h220/seaque/budda.jpg)
This is the image of a statue in the Kotokuin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotokuin) temple. Specifically, the Amitabha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amitabha) Buddha.

Interesting facts of the Amitabha Buddha.

Amitabha is a celestial Buddha described in the scriptures of the Mahayana school of Buddhism. According to these scriptures, Amitabha possesses infinite merits resulting from good deeds over countless past lives as a bodhisattva named Dharmakara.

According to the Larger Sutra of Immeasurable Life Amitabha was, in very ancient times and possibly in another realm, a monk named Dharmakara.

In some versions of the sutra. Dharmakara is described as a former king who, having come into contact with the Buddhist teachings and renounced his throne. He then resolved to become a Buddha and so to come into possession of a ("buddha-field", a world produced by a buddha's merit) possessed of many perfections. These resolutions were expressed in his forty-eight vows, which set out the type of buddha-field Dharmakāra aspired to create, the conditions under which beings might be born into that world, and what kind of beings they would be when reborn there.

Amitabha's name in Sanskrit is a compound of the Sanskrit words amita ("without bound, infinite") and abha ("light, splendor"). Consequently, the name is to be interpreted as "he who possesses light without bound, he whose splendor is infinite".

Amitabha is one of the Five Wisdom Buddhas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dhyani_Buddhas).

http://www.fangasm.com/mt-static/FCKeditor/UserFiles/Image/lostfinale61.jpg Just so I have it. No broken window behind the booth.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=106956&fullsize=1
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=106972&fullsize=1

These are no errors.

I agree Sam. I could see movin' pictures as a possible error, but not changin' frames like that.

Cool find, Sam G. It appears all of the frames have changed, as well as one of the photos, but their positions seem not to have. The only way I can see that happening is if they had to go back and reshoot.

Why would they point out a glaring continuity error and focus on that one picture that they changed to frame on? I'm pretty sure it was deliberate.

jane eris pointed it out. It fits with the rest of these clues.

Well, from a Colour standpoint, what's interesting is the picture next to the frame-change. On the way up there's someone in Red, and on the way down he's in Blue. There's also a picture above that that disappears completely, leaving a dark patch.

Sam g.. .OH my you are just too cool for school... please check out about 10 or 11 minutes into the epi sawyer comfronts locke over gun shot, there is a reversal of faces on ben. .his wounds are right side then left... its something they didnt try to hide. i saw it the first time when i watched the epi..

also why wasnt naimo's eyes closed? something to think about ..

Why would they point out a glaring continuity error and focus on that one picture that they changed to frame on? I'm pretty sure it was deliberate.

jane eris pointed it out. It fits with the rest of these clues.

I agree - deliberate. I can understand if they had to reshoot the scene - but why would you take the photos out of the frames at all after the first time you filmed it....

Makes me rethink all those inconsistencies that we resigned to be errors. Not that there aren't errors ....maybe just not all of them are such.

This is very interesting! :eek2:

Hey, do you guys want to see something even more weird? Take a look at this screencap I took of Miles leaving the room directly after taking the money:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8553/milespictureoj2.png

There's the picture in the gold frame, and it's on a different floor entirely. I don't think there's anything continuity error-ish about this at all, no sir, not the change in frame or location. Boy, is that creepy.

I'm still relatively new here, and hadn't seen this thread until it was resurrected today, and all I have to say is THANK YOU!

I had noticed weird inconsistencies before (Sawyer's shirt has a collar... no it doesn't... yes it does!... huh?!) and thought maybe I was crazy or just imagining things; and going back to check, esp past seasons, requires remembering minutiae of detail that I just don't have time to do.

Wow... I'm going to have to go back and through this thread more in-depth. It'll probably take a few days, but it is SO nice to know that I wasn't imagining things! :cool:

There are several old threads out there, the perks of being here for a long time, I remember they exist. There's another one for the "Press Execute" button. And I'll see what else I can dig up. Maybe I'll post the links here for easy access.

Different Execute Buttons (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=21368)
Things found in the hatch and in he Outside world (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=28892) Always fun.

Hey, do you guys want to see something even more weird? Take a look at this screencap I took of Miles leaving the room directly after taking the money:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8553/milespictureoj2.png

There's the picture in the gold frame, and it's on a different floor entirely. I don't think there's anything continuity error-ish about this at all, no sir, not the change in frame or location. Boy, is that creepy.

Er, quoting this in case it got buried on the last page. Maybe it's not important or worth discussing but I really think it nails down that there's something going on with the picture for sure.

Yes, you are right an entirely different floor.

These go all the way back to the beginning: Boone's shirt has a symbol, then it doesn't, then it does again. So many people took that to be some kind of hidden clue, and lots of people still do when something like that crops up.

Yep, Boone's shirt a biggie.

I think they've had a framework for dealing with continuity errors from the beginning. That framework had to be flexible enough to accommodate the unexpected, since reality makes unexpected twists and turns, actors don't pan out or want to move on, and so on. The whims of Mother Nature can really mess with actual production. And of course, people actually do make mistakes. However, if the framework is designed to redefine a mistake as a viable alternative, it becomes near to impossible to identify which "continuity errors" were planned and which were not planned.

Sometimes the production crew may be aware that continuity errors are guaranteed the moment they hit the beach to film. For example, on a partly cloudy day where the sunlight comes and goes, it would be close to impossible to maintain continuity in the lighting conditions. In such cases, I think they implement a "process control" to simultaneously acknowledge and cover up such conditions.

The Manipulation of Jin's Pole versus Sawyer's Sensitivity to Light

The scene begins with Jack coming to the beach. He checks in on Michael and Jin, who are rebuilding the raft. If you examine this scene closely, you'll see Jin in the background manipulating a pole through a complicated set of positions. As he does so, the camera POV shifts several times, yet the pole is always exactly where it's supposed to be as Jin manipulates it into position on the raft. This is an example of exquisite continuity, demonstrating that the production crew are well aware of what it takes to produce "seamless motion" through several different shots. These people are professionals and they know quite well what they are doing. This is "proof of craftsmanship."

Close-up to Jack: He looks up the beach and spots Sawyer. He makes a decision to go check him out, since Kate has already told him that Sawyer's been complaining of a headache that won't go away. The key on Jack's neck, which symbolizes his connection to Kate's heart, flips its orientation on the necklace. The teeth of the key point in towards Jack in one shot and away from Jack in another shot. It's minor, and I take it as purely symbolic. Jack isn't going to check out Sawyer because he cares about Sawyer, but because he cares about Kate.

Jack comes over to Sawyer, and now the continuity goes haywire. It's a partly cloudy day. The pattern of sunlight on the ground is constantly shifting, as are the general lighting conditions of the scene. It will be near to impossible to maintain physical continuity for this day's shooting. What a headache. So what do they do? They make it worse, acknowledge it in the dialogue, and make a symbolic statement about Jack's torn allegiances... or perhaps his shifting identity.

Jack: I hear you're having trouble with your head.
Sawyer: What, now she got you making house calls?
Jack: You're sensitive to the light, too, huh?
Sawyer: You know what? I'm sensitive to you...
Jack: Alright, we'll see you.
Sawyer: Doc? Sensitivity to the light... that bad?
Jack: Depends.
Sawyer: On what?
Jack: On what's causing your headaches.

Depending on the angle of the shot, Jack is wearing either his regular backpack or his leather backpack. The regular one is symbolic of Jack as Jack. The leather one is his medical backpack - it's symbolic of Jack's identity as a doctor. As he predicted, Jack gets a snappy one-liner, but then his medical ethics kick in and he actually proceeds to investigate Sawyer's headache as a proper doctor. This is properly balanced by Jack's lack of medical ethics later as he questions Sawyer about his dubious sexual history in front of Kate, purely to humiliate him.

Sure enough, the variable lighting conditions are easily detectable, but we are so focused on the characters and the damn backpack that the lighting conditions go unnoticed.

Cleverly, in a quantum framework, this scene can be spun as a juxtaposition of two interwoven timelines. In one timeline, Jack came to the beach wearing the regular backpack. In a different iteration, he came to the beach wearing his leather backpack. Because we are seeing different timelines being juxtaposed, we also have a neat solution to the shifting light patterns on the beach. Talk about retroactive continuity!

There's another great example of this "process control" in Whatever The Case May Be, if you want me to share more. Boone's shirt is just the tip of the iceberg.

Also, according to either Kelvin or Radzinsky's hidden messages on the BDM...

...and...

Kelvin and Radzinsky might be questionable as a source but I can believe both points.

I think that the sickness might be real. It's just that some people would be naturally immune; some would be effcient at fighting it off (Rousseau) ... as in Thomas Mittlewerk hoping for only a 30% mortality rate with his virus. OR the sickness is something we don't understand yet. And may not be a traditional "sickness." Don't you think it's odd that both Rousseau and Radzinsky would use the term "sickness?"

Instead of illness? Instead of disease?

These are no errors.

I'm with you on that, Sam.

From Confirmed Dead:
MILES: Naomi, the woman you killed. Where is she?
[In flashback, a car pulls up outside a house in Inglewood, California]
<flashback snipped>
[Back in realtime, Miles still has a gun to Jack]
JACK: We didn't kill your friend.

Miles, confronted by two possible paths (these people killed Naomi OR these people didn't kill Naomi) assumes one, and reality in the past reshuffles slightly. Then Jack refutes his initial assumption.

Which slit did the photon pass through?

Maybe I've gone off the "Yungian" deep end (gotta love ol' Yung24 (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/member.php?u=3785)!) on the quantum physics, but I really believe that is the analogy that TPTB are working with.

Kelvin & Radzinsky would have been told that they needed to wear those hazmat suits when leaving The Swan to collect supplies (which is likely the only thing that they were supposed to do) and maybe one day when one of them came back with a big-tear in his suit and didn't die they started to get suspicious? It's possible the discovery of this lie is what led to the creation of the BDM to begin with.

I've often wondered if what Danielle describes as the sickness is what Radzinsky referred to on the BDM as Cerberus Related Activity? I wondered if she was driven to kill her team (and remember she had a standoff with Robert, Alex's father, maybe he thought she was sick too?) by the monster, by the visions and whispers?

Problem is that doesn't really tally up with what Danielle had to say about the sickness in Maternity Leave...

CLAIRE: What are you doing here? You stay away from us.

DANIELLE: He's infected, isn't he?

CLAIRE: What?

DANIELLE: Your child, he's sick.

CLAIRE: Get away. You get away from us!!

DANIELLE: You don't remember, do you?

When she says "He's infected, isn't he?" she seems to recognise Aaron's symptoms as being the same as those experienced by her team...

CLAIRE: So, what do you know about Rousseau?

KATE: Not much.

CLAIRE: You spent all that time with her when you went out to the Black Rock. You must have talked about something.

KATE: Just about her ship crashing here -- her and her research team getting stranded.

CLAIRE: What happened to them?

KATE: They died.

CLAIRE: How?

KATE: Tracks are gone -- trail ends here.

CLAIRE: Kate, how did they die?

KATE: She killed them.

CLAIRE: What? Why, why would...

DANIELLE [appearing]: Because they were infected. You believe me now, don't you?


...and she makes a shocking suggestion about what should be done with Aaron if he is "infected"...

CLAIRE: Your baby -- was it a girl?

DANIELLE: Yes.

CLAIRE: What was her name?

DANIELLE: Alex, Alexandra.

CLAIRE: I remember a girl -- a girl with blue eyes. She helped me. She saved me, just like you did. She wasn't like the others. She was good.

DANIELLE: I'm sorry that you didn't find what you were looking for. I hope you're baby's not infected. But if it is, I hope you know what must be done. [she exits]


I don't know what to think with Danielle, her being nutty as a fruitcake doesn't help.

HV you are on to something... ever since Jane's photo discovery yesterday, this is really advancing...

that is a great example with Miles...

How about an example from Hurley from TBOTE

i wish i wrote for this show! any mistake i made would be seen as a cunning master plan to deceive!

maybe some things are deliberate. maybe a lot of things are real mistakes since scenes are often made from multiple takes.

maybe the mistakes are made or at least left in to distract you, just like a magician uses distractions to conceal what is really going on.

but to assume every mistake is done deliberately is making this an entirely too complicated show. shows, even successful ones, have limited resources and budgets. props are often reused, lost, or damaged. and they especially have time constraints which make recreating a scene especially hard.

don't be distracted by everything.

The thing is, when TPTB have been confronted by a real mistake they have admitted to the error. As in Jin's resume.

I agree, no one is perfect and certain things are beyond their control but.... Costuming understands their job quite well, putting Boone in a t-shirt with a logo, no matter how many days and takes, would know that he needs to have the same shirt on, unless they were directed to make the change. The same thing goes for the inconsistencies in the hatch with the record players, Dharma logo on the wall and not on the wall, the shiny and then rusty medicine cabinet, the water leak over the booth and not over the booth and the changes in the hatch mural.

As for the lighting, it's been subtly pointed out so many times, I've stopped commenting on itBlinded by the Light (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=5955). Something is strange about the lighting for sure.

People are saying the admitted mistakes are the writers lying. Most of the inconsistencies are just mistakes or production errors. Others could be to form a mood or feeling for a scene, a sense of detachment, or of something familiar.

People are saying the admitted mistakes are the writers lying. Most of the inconsistencies are just mistakes or production errors. Others could be to form a mood or feeling for a scene, a sense of detachment, or of something familiar.I'm sorry, I'm not understanding you.

There are most definitely inconsistencies, some uncontrollable, like how much sea spray is on a shirt or sweat, or if your hair isn't falling exactly the same way

More than one person would notice the wrong shirt was being worn, (The costuming depart documents them in pictures.) The script supervisor has notes.

Having Jack's tattoo jump from one side to the other, means flipping the film in editing.

I was a script supervisor, for a while, so I'm pretty good at picking out these things without trying. There are the normal ones, that you just can't help and then there are the ones that someone went out of their way to create.

The thing is, when TPTB have been confronted by a real mistake they have admitted to the error. As in Jin's resume.

They can say it's an error even if it's intentional. Just because something is acknowledged as an "error" - prop error, continuity error - doesn't mean that it doesn't double as something apocryphally meaningful, especially given enough ingenuity on the part of the reader.

The resume may be a double-entendre. And TPTB can truthfully say it's an error, because they know that the resume has more than one meaning. And even if it's an "honest mistake", it still fits in with the narrative. The "mistake" on the resume does have to do with the "timeline" after all. Or maybe Jin's lying in his resume - conspiracy and deception is also thematic.

Honestly, we should read the story without any recourse to the artists who've made it. That doesn't mean we can't evaluate their claims (I'm all for that!) but the art itself stands on its own. We are meaning-makers. Meaning doesn't exist outside the human experience.

Costuming understands their job quite well, putting Boone in a t-shirt with a logo, no matter how many days and takes, would know that he needs to have the same shirt on, unless they were directed to make the change. It isn't a different shirt. He's wearing it inside-out. Look at the sleeves and the seams.

It's part of a sequence of process-control for a day when filming conditions were truly horrid. They had to clear the beach of their airplane wreckage prop, the sun was horribly bright, the wind was very strong and interfered with the sound, and so on. I'm sure that WTCMB was nightmare for the production crew.

WTCMB has a ton of "artifacts", not just this scene. So it's one of my favorite episodes!

Getting back to Boone's shirt, looking closely at the scene there are all kinds of picky details to pick over. First, the lighting conditions. The shots from over Shannon's shoulder have her shoulder in shadow. Other shots of the scene have her shoulder in sunlight. Why? Because the sun was so bright, they had to shade her shoulder for the close-in shots to prevent... i'm not sure of the term, is it "specular lighting" or "bloom" effects? I also picked out some dubbing in the dialogue.

The shot opens with Shannon reading a magazine. The article or advert we see is about "process control" and "closed loops". Boone comes up and pours water over his neck, a sort of self-baptism with a significant metaphoric symbol in the show - Water is very important on Lost. Shortly thereafter, he's suddenly dry and wearing his shirt inside-out. Two changes in polarity - wet to dry, and inside-out. Exquisite.

The process-control is reflected in the dialogue:

Boone: We're a joke.

I have seen Jack's tatoo on the opposite arm, any turn around of the film would have it read backwards too. but in that scene, the one where is beating the snot out of ethan, a quick shot shows it on his right arm and readable.. and its jack..

and don't forget about Locke

Scar from kidney removal
(http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-382-308.html)No kidney removal scar (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1368-143.html)

Ok, this one may be petty, lol. And it's probably a mistake. But it drives me crazy every time I watch TTLG now.

Jack has grey in his sideburns and beard on the island, and no grey whatsoever when he gets OFF the island.

Jack and Sawyer
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1300-791.html

Jack
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=101206&fullsize=1

Jack and Juliet
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=101247&fullsize=1

another Jack and Juliet
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=101248&fullsize=1

Jack and Kate
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=101924&fullsize=1

Jack, off island
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=102098&fullsize=1


He's obviously not trimming his beard, so I'm pretty sure he's also not using Miss Clairol, lol.

I said it was a petty inconsistency! Still drives me nuts, though. Because once I notice something like that, I can't help but look for it in every single scene, lol. And yes, yes, yes, I know the beard off island is completely fake...but they should touch up things like that.

goddessblue

Because you had mentioned the the beards, Sayid's in The Economist
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=107658&fullsize=1
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=107694&fullsize=1 - looks like they added gray to Sayid's beard
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=108116&fullsize=1

goddessblue

Because you had mentioned the the beards, Sayid's in The Economist
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=107658&fullsize=1
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=107694&fullsize=1 - looks like they added gray to Sayid's beard
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=108116&fullsize=1
Sam, if they could add gray to Sayid's after he got off the island, why didn't they add it to Jack's beard??

Very good on catching that one! LOL, after it drove me nuts in TTLG, I'm surprised I didn't notice it in TE. Although, I didn't notice it in Jack's beard on my first watch, it was only after seeing TTLG 2 or 3 times. I've only watched TE once so far. ;)

one big reason why they wouldnt have added gray to his beard was to hide the fact that it was a flash forward, to postpone the big reveal.

Reversed Images

In Australia, everything is backwards. They drive on the left side of the road, and the steering wheel is on the right side of the car. Yet the show is filmed in Hawaii, where the opposite rules apply.

You know your story will have segments in Australia. How do we film this?

Reverse the images.

But mirrors and reversals are Special in Lost. That makes Australia a Special Place.

Isaac of Uluru healed Rose.

In Tabula Rasa, when Kate saves the farmer, there's a special reversed reversal when she pulls him from the burning truck. His wedding ring is suddenly on his Other hand. How sweet that he still wears that Ring!

In Pilot 2, Charlie's necklace flips. Then again, this happens all the time.

In HOTRS, Sun decides to follow Michael. The decision happens in a reversed image.

In HOTRS, Jack's tattoos flip at the end, as he fills his bottle with Water. But did Jack flip, or was it someone else?

In Solitary, Sayid takes Danielle's maps in a reversed image. At the end, he hears Whispers...

In Raised By An Other, Charlie is reversed running from Ethan to Claire. And then... something Special happens.


There are more...

Sam, if they could add gray to Sayid's after he got off the island, why didn't they add it to Jack's beard??

Very good on catching that one! LOL, after it drove me nuts in TTLG, I'm surprised I didn't notice it in TE. Although, I didn't notice it in Jack's beard on my first watch, it was only after seeing TTLG 2 or 3 times. I've only watched TE once so far. ;) Exactly, his beard was made to look like that for a reason.

Exactly, his beard was made to look like that for a reason.

it was made to look that way as to not give away it was a fast forward. they wanted to build our expectations up first, then come out with a big curve ball.

there are reversals. Bens face in confirmed dead.
Jack's tatoo on his right arm when he was pounding ethan in the rain.
i have screen shots, i remember thinking thats not right when i watched the epi
they pan over things slowly.

all i can think of this the anwers we are looking for are right in our face, and the simpliest of all that we just breeze past them. also kate words which has happened several time, about doubling back and creating a fake trail.

when i read the book about the twin, half way through it i realized that what we see and know can be two different things. and a detective faces - as we do - waiting for the end result. how many times does a detective get taken off the path to another lead that leads no where?

I have never been one for who did novels, but this show really has me hooked.

I know the producers and writing are having a blast with watching us.

when i read the book about the twin, half way through it i realized that what we see and know can be two different things. and a detective faces - as we do - waiting for the end result. how many times does a detective get taken off the path to another lead that leads no where?

Isabel: He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us. Your tattoos, that's what they say.
Jack: That's what they say. That's not what they mean.

- Stranger In A Strange Land
(which also an interesting book, and carries an interesting story since it was written)

These are no errors.

I'm with you on that, Sam.

In too many cases, it would have been harder to make the error than not.

Here's my take on the picture and the frames:

The young boy who looks so much like Eko alludes back to the destruction wrought by Eko's actions, when he chose not to destroy the drugs but to send them out of his country.
What goes around, comes around. In this case, it didn't come around to Eko but it came around to his young American mirror image.

The frames themselves are an allusion to the viewer's frames of reference.
Miles goes up the stairs: we see the pictures, we're thinking "young man, tragic victim".
Miles comes down the stairs: we've mentally reframed our conception to "young man, drug dealer".
He's still a victim of and a commentary on Eko's drug deal, but we see the picture with a newer, sharper, clearer frame.

Not as glamorous as shifting time frames, I know, but richer and deeper, imo..

it was made to look that way as to not give away it was a fast forward. they wanted to build our expectations up first, then come out with a big curve ball.

If that was the case, why give Jack a beard at all? I don't remember Jack having a beard in any of the FB's. Giving him a beard really sticks out. Having the coloring be different makes it even more obvious something is off. :eek2:

Who's to say Jack might not color his beard in the future? After all, his beard has more grey than his head, which has next to none. :cool: Hey, it's possible.

If that was the case, why give Jack a beard at all? I don't remember Jack having a beard in any of the FB's. Giving him a beard really sticks out. Having the coloring be different makes it even more obvious something is off. :eek2:

because in a future episode its reference again and its showing his downward spiral. we don't know much about each person's past, only a couple time periods from their life that we've seen in flashbacks. so there was always a possibility that he could have had a beard in his younger days. it just left it open that there was a possibility. and again, if he had a beard and if it was gray it would have been glaringly obvious that this was not a flashback. instead with a beard and no gray it left the door still open.

some of things mentioned are certain to be questionable as to their motives, but a lot of things are just storytelling devices or mistakes.

The young boy who looks so much like Eko alludes back to the destruction wrought by Eko's actions, when he chose not to destroy the drugs but to send them out of his country.

What goes around, comes around. In this case, it didn't come around to Eko but it came around to his young American mirror image.

Thank you, lostmio! I hadn't seen that connection, but it's so clear now that you've put words to it. Amazing how choices on one side of the world can travel all the way 'round to affect the picture on the other side.

The frames themselves are an allusion to the viewer's frames of reference.
Miles goes up the stairs: we see the pictures, we're thinking "young man, tragic victim".
Miles comes down the stairs: we've mentally reframed our conception to "young man, drug dealer".

He's still a victim of and a commentary on Eko's drug deal, but we see the picture with a newer, sharper, clearer frame.

Not as glamorous as shifting time frames, I know, but richer and deeper, imo..

In your vision, the shifting frames of rearranged pictures are metaphorical, a commentary on the viewer's experience. Lovely!

Here's another one for you. When Miles is in the room, he seems to have an "experience." Did you see the light over his head, shining from just outside the frame of the shot? It reminded me of Charlie's vision of the dove in Fire+Water, which emerges from a pulse of light just above the frame of the shot. We also hear peculiar sounds as he sits on the bed. One of them sounded like a whirring noise to me, like helicopter blades.

When Miles comes down, his demeanor has changed. He gives back some money to Mrs. Gardner, which seems so very much out of character for him! And he even looks surprised at himself, as they hug!

In this interpretation, the changing picture frames are a metaphor for the change in frame-of-reference within Miles himself.

How many other ways can we interpret these frames (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame)? The word itself refers to many things. It's the basis for construction, and looking at the house of Mrs. Gardner, is it really framed to have a second floor room? In film, it can refer to an individual cell within a loop, or how the shot itself is "oriented"; in literature a "frame story" is one which embeds stories within stories (which we get in Lost's flashbacks); it may even refer to a philosophical quandry regarding the inferences people use to interpret the world around them - i.e., why pick one frame-of-reference over another?

In picking a frame-of-reference, what happens to the others?

Christian: Don't choose, Jack, don't decide... You don't want to try and save everyone because when you fail...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_8FV_exo2vSc/R7hI_hkcvuI/AAAAAAAAAxA/rrUrT1d5afM/s1600-h/s2Inverted.jpg

I agree some things are beyond control but this wasn't, another one of our mirror references. We've talked about this picture a lot and if I missed the mention of the reversed shot, my mistake.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_8FV_exo2vSc/R7hI_hkcvuI/AAAAAAAAAxA/rrUrT1d5afM/s1600-h/s2Inverted.jpg

I agree some things are beyond control but this wasn't, another one of our mirror references. We've talked about this picture a lot and if I missed the mention of the reversed shot, my mistake.

maybe they didnt catch ben's good side, so they took the picture again :biggrin:
i definitely agree there is a theme about mirror images and opposites!

What are those 2 Pics? Who is that in the photo?

I'm joking, of course. But seriously, what are those 2 versions - the Promo and as it aired? If that's the case, I'd say they decided to flip it to make the unplugged monitor a little less obvious.

I'm not trying to knock the premise of this Thread, of which I'm an avid follower. It's just that in this case I can see a potential explanation for a last-minute switch.

What are those 2 Pics? Who is that in the photo?

I'm joking, of course. But seriously, what are those 2 versions - the Promo and as it aired? If that's the case, I'd say they decided to flip it to make the unplugged monitor a little less obvious.

I'm not trying to knock the premise of this Thread, of which I'm an avid follower. It's just that in this case I can see a potential explanation for a last-minute switch.

Luc, I hadn't noticed a switch, so I went back and watched, and both the long shot and the close-up of the photo had Ben with his left side to the camera. No mirror image... unless my eyes are crossed!

So, your suggestion that it's just a promo vs air screwup seems a likely possibility. :)

Yes, the clearer pic it from the promo pics. Just interesting that they would bother to have both.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_8FV_exo2vSc/R7hI_hkcvuI/AAAAAAAAAxA/rrUrT1d5afM/s1600-h/s2Inverted.jpg

I agree some things are beyond control but this wasn't, another one of our mirror references. We've talked about this picture a lot and if I missed the mention of the reversed shot, my mistake.
Sam, could you please provide the website version of the link (rather than just the image)?

Or describe where it's posted and how to get to it? I'm assuming it's at darkUFO's site?

There is a long shot (from over Juliet's shoulder) of Ben's picture held in Miles' right hand. Juliet and Jack react. Then a close-up, still Miles' right hand. Jack and Juliet react. Then a medium shot, and this is the one that's reversed. Briefly, the photo is in Miles' "left" hand, and the photo appears reversed. It's very subtle, for the talent has a very symmetrical face - except for his ears, which are slightly different.

But it is a deliberately constructed shot, for Miles' position in the frame is still consistent - his "right" side is still towards us.

The question, as always, is what to make of such reversed images. Are they simply thematic, are they metaphoric to the situation, or are they evidence of some subtextual process which has yet to be revealed?

One could make a case for all three interpretations, and even then we have wriggle room. There are so many mirror-shots in the show I've stopped keeping track. They are everywhere - reflections in mirrors, in the water, objects with mirrored surfaces, reversed images, and on and on and on. Coupled with the black/white polarity references and images, it's easy to see a thread or theme in all of these shots.

One could make the case that the reversed image of Miles and Ben's photo is metaphorically symbolic of the situation. Reversals have just happened - we've gone from thinking that the Four are after Desmond to thinking they are after Ben. Furthermore, we are reversed in the thinking that Ben has not been off the Island for a very long time, yet obviously people off-Island have evidence of him... and this bears out in the following episode, and as such may be indicative of foreshadowing - not mention thematic of the theme of "prescience" interwoven in the story.

The reversed image may also indicate a "con" - that Ben has been lying, and also that Miles is lying (or has been fed lies). It may be a marker that we've just been fed some unreliable narration.

Time-loopers might be inclined to view reversed images as a sign that someone has just "looped" back to this point in time, or that someone has suddenly accessed "prescience" in some sort of way within the story.

And, of course, there will be those who consider this shot to be a pickup which was sloppily shot and had to be reversed to maintain the larger continuity of the talent's body position at the expense of the smaller continuity of Ben's picture.

And then there's the picture itself, featuring a monitor which has not been plugged in, which is certainly open to a number of interpretations in its own right.
100%

Tabby: http://lostcontinuity.blogspot.com/2008/02/flippedinverted-shot.html

and after he lowers the picture: http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x02/normal_4x02-cap-623.jpg

http://bp0.blogger.com/_8FV_exo2vSc/R7hI_hkcvuI/AAAAAAAAAxA/rrUrT1d5afM/s1600-h/s2Inverted.jpg

I agree some things are beyond control but this wasn't, another one of our mirror references. We've talked about this picture a lot and if I missed the mention of the reversed shot, my mistake.

Yes, the clearer pic it from the promo pics. Just interesting that they would bother to have both.

Sam, could you please provide the website version of the link (rather than just the image)?

Or describe where it's posted and how to get to it? I'm assuming it's at darkUFO's site?
OK, I found it (http://lostcontinuity.blogspot.com/2008/02/flippedinverted-shot.html)!

The description by the poster
During Confirmed Dead there is an shot that has been flipped/Inverted in the editing room
We see the same thing during the POL segment of The Economist.

The give away if Bens Photo that is flashed infront of the camera very quickly.
My understanding is that these screencaps occurred during the aired epi Confirmed Dead, and in the "Previously on LOST" segment of the next epi, The Economist.

I don't see any reference to either being from the promo pics.

And I wondered about it, because the flipped version has the "CTV" logo, which would indicate aired broadcast in Canada, so I guess it is questionable whether the CTV network flipped it, and whether the ABC version had it (and flipped it). I hope the networks are "only" messing with the previews...

But I'm not going to rewatch either epi for this, let alone slo-mo...

Sam, could you please provide the website version of the link (rather than just the image)?

Or describe where it's posted and how to get to it? I'm assuming it's at darkUFO's site?

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1351-53.html As Lucidity pointed out this is from the Promotional Photos.

On the subject of photos form Confirmed Dead, there were repeated photos in the Inglewood house.
In one scene as Miles goes either up or down the stairs (I'm not sure which and I don't have time to check now) you can see a photo of what looks like three girls on the stairway wall (one in blue, one in green, and one in white) and the very same photo can bee seen on the right side wall of the hall next to the front door. I don't mean you can see it in another scene, I mean you can see both pictures in the same shot. Therefore, I am leaning towards the theory of glaring continuity errors regarding all photos in Confirmed Dead. I think they had multiple copies of the same photo, put them in a bunch of frames used them for a scene and then simply put the wrong pictures back in the next scene.

Or, since we know there are lots of photos in the house and before and after shots from a photo restoration service, we could extrapolate that the woman living in the house does photo restoration. From there we might understand that she might have the same photo in several places in her home showcasing different resto tecniques. Also she might have been keeping herself "busy" while Miles was upstaris by rearranging photos or changing the frames around.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1351-53.html As Lucidity pointed out this is from the Promotional Photos.
It seemed to me that Lucidity was asking/assuming whether it was a Promo [photo], not pointing it out...I had been wondering the same thing...

The posting of the screencap link
http://bp0.blogger.com/_8FV_exo2vSc/...s2Inverted.jpg (http://bp0.blogger.com/_8FV_exo2vSc/R7hI_hkcvuI/AAAAAAAAAxA/rrUrT1d5afM/s1600-h/s2Inverted.jpg)
prevented anyone else from looking at the screencap/source to make their own assessment...thus why I asked for you to post the website link. :)

Maybe that poster made an error in their description...in which case we can always blame it on Spooky (the poster). :)

Yeah, I knew there had been a Promo pic of Ben's Photo and I was asking if the two versions posted here both appeared in the show somehow, or if one was the Promo and the other as it appeared.

Like I said, if the original one only appeared as a Promo I'd say the Writers got wind from this Board that everyone was laughing about the lack of cables at the back of the monitor and flipped it to make that less obvious.

It seemed to me that Lucidity was asking/assuming whether it was a Promo [photo], not pointing it out...I had been wondering the same thing...

The posting of the screencap link
http://bp0.blogger.com/_8FV_exo2vSc/...s2Inverted.jpg (http://bp0.blogger.com/_8FV_exo2vSc/R7hI_hkcvuI/AAAAAAAAAxA/rrUrT1d5afM/s1600-h/s2Inverted.jpg)
prevented anyone else from looking at the screencap/source to make their own assessment...thus why I asked for you to post the website link. :)

Maybe that poster made an error in their description...in which case we can always blame it on Spooky (the poster). :)

The top photo from Spooky's cap isn't the the promotional photo, when you blow it up it isn't that clear.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=106625&fullsize=1

My excuse is that I'm sick and not feeling well.

Go back and read Jane_eris's post on the last page, I believe she is describing what she saw while watching the show.

Giving myself a timeout.

In this interpretation, the changing picture frames are a metaphor for the change in frame-of-reference within Miles himself.

How many other ways can we interpret these frames (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame)? The word itself refers to many things.
Friend John, when told of the change in the frames, took it to be a clue in the form of a visual pun: that somebody is being framed!

Friend John, when told of the change in the frames, took it to be a clue in the form of a visual pun: that somebody is being framed!

Well yes. Someone has to be the scapegoat. And in order to do that, someone has to provide false information, even false testimony (Jack in court?) to falsely prove someone guilty of the crime, or to get rid of someone who knows too much and needs to be taken out in a convincing manner.

One of the more inexpensive ways to frame someone is to employ some kind of identity theft, given how lax computer security can often be. And given that we've seen Miles have a vision of framing someone, and he's also the one who holds the inconsistent picture of Ben posing by an unplugged computer monitor, it seems his real plan is not to extort money from Ben but to frame him for the entire hoax.

On the other hand, one of the most famous framings in television history has to be the duplicity surrounding Dr. Richard Kimble, the most famous of Fugitives... until Ms. Austen became the most recognizable face in America. In which case, she would not be the one framed, but the one doing the framing. And given the state of Mr. Shephard at the end of TTLG, it seems he might the ultimate patsy. They've already gotten him to commit perjury, and of his own accord at that!

Originally posted by jane_eris:
Well yes. Someone has to be the scapegoat.


Ah Rene Girard... in order for society to function, someone has to take the blame, to be the scapegoat.

allmost everyone in this thread seems to be:



grasping





at







straws.....




and for those who arent heres a song for you:


marshall will and holly
on a routine expedition
in the greatest earthquake ever known
high on a **cough**rapid
it struck their tiny raft
and brought them down a thousand feet below
in the laaa hand of the LOST!

insert banjo here

insert growl of the security system here

insert LOST closing theme here

LOST!

The painting of the Woman/w hamster has changed.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h53/lucky4me8/com.jpg