Did you love or hate the episode? Let's have a critical discussion about the epsiode. If you didn't like the episode or the dirrection Lost is going in, why? If you loved the episode, defend it.

Be nice. Attack the post, not the poster. Let's just debate.

You know, (not attacking the poster, just the trend), just once I'd like to see one of these opinion threads be titled something like "What did you think of tonight's episode?" Loved it or hated it doesn't leave a lot of room for anything in between. Yeah, I know it's just a dumb opinion thread like all the others, but can't an episode just be what it is? We don't go to a forum about a book and proclaim each chapter a huge success or a dismal failure before we get to the end. Well, I guess some of you would... heh.

I'm just weary of the idiots people that will automatically come to this thread and say they hate the episode, regardless of how it actually was, and then on the other end, there will be the loyalists who will defend even the crappiest episode of their favorite show (in this case, Lost) to their dying breath.

Sigh....

At least its not titled 'The best/worst episode ever. ;)

I actually loved this episode-it explained alot but of course left lots of unanswered questions as well-ah-lol-but thats the Lost way-next weeks show looks like it will be an excellent one too.

personally, I think the writing could've used a lot of help.

I think that the format was problematic....the "main" group's 48 days was portrayed over the course of 30 episodes, so showing 48 days for the tailies in 1 episode required a break-neck pace, where we only got significant moments here and there. Didn't do a lot for character development, but we had some really strong scenes, with the conversation between Goodwin and Ana Lucia taking the cake. All in all, I felt that the episode was a bit jumbled and rushed, but we still got some big plot points/hints, and I felt some sympathy for Ana for the first time.

this episode SUCKED!!!!! We got nothing!!!!

We got answers and illumination, which was good, but I still don't care about any of the tail section survivors except for Eko. I was hoping to be much more emotionally invested in them by the end of this episode, and especially to see another side to Ana.

I was bored. I've been bored since episode 1 of this season, which I loved. That was an episode that took chances... since then, snail's pace and predictability. The second episode was a retelling of the first episode, and now we get another retelling. In between we get flashback episodes which don't tell us any new startling facts about our characters, we just get tiny details like Hurley had a friend who resented him. Not exactly earth-shattering stuff while we have a ton of more important (yet still peripheral to the main mystery) stories to be told like why is Kate on the run from the law, how was Locke paralyzed, etc. We got the blonde chick being shot, yes, but she was just an annoying whiner anyway -- the only interesting thing about her was her relationship to her brother, and that was ended last season. Losing her now was no big shakes.

This episode should have been harrowing and incredibly dark and scary to reward all of their build-up about how horrible things were for the back section and to explain their physically abusive and nasty behavior. They had people taken from them, yes, but the scenes of it actually happening were not that scary, partially because for some reason they were able to kill the Others a lot easier than Ethan was killed

Arggh. Looks like things will finally be happening again next episode to the characters we actually care about, like Jack and Sayid. Whew.

To be quite honest, I'm ready to get back to the good old episode format.

You know, the one where familiar characters interact and you get some insight into their past from the flashbacks.

Lately we haven't seen any of the characters from season one that we have come to love... at all!

I think that Echo is gonna be something awesome. He has already joined Kate, Sawyer, and Locke as somebody that I think is gonna do something amazing.

Everyone on the island has their place.

Jack is a leader. Sawyer is a rebel. Kate is an adventurer. Locke is a hunter-philosopher.

Echo is the WARRIOR.

I did like this episode very much..it answered questions..and I had a tiny bit of positive feeling for Ana when she said she made a promise to the kid..but she did beat up on Sawyer so it will take a while for me to like her..I also liked that it added a few more questions to make up for the ones it answered..I thought it was really good television...

I dislike Ana...I like Bernard..because of Rose,,and Eko because he went to find Michael and was nice to Jin and Sawyer....but I will need to see some flashbacks to truly start having a vested interest in any ot the other tailies..Libby and Lost Cindy just havent made an impression on me...

I really dont want the show to be that dark and dreary..I want things to remain in the realm of possibility..

I think what we'll find later is that most of the others are actually pretty "normal" people - which I would like because I don't want this to turn into a super-natural type show...I do agree though that in the last couple of eps they made the others sound too powerful/scary...

I loved this eppy. One of my favorites this season. It tied lots of stuff together. Boone;s message, Goodwin's death, the Others exposed, why Jin was held captive, teddy bear. Of cource lots of new questions. But ain't that why we love this show?

To be quite honest, I'm ready to get back to the good old episode format.

You know, the one where familiar characters interact and you get some insight into their past from the flashbacks.

Lately we haven't seen any of the characters from season one that we have come to love... at all!



Everyone on the island has their place.



Huh?? the old format? Just so we can learn more about Jack's X- wife or Kates other run ins with the law??

The only flashback of any direct relivance to the episodes was Jack's in the season opener.

and if giving up the flashbacks is the price we have to pay to delve deeper into what the island is or what are the others, truely, then I am all for leaving the flashbacks behind.

With that said, I seriously doubt they are gone.

There is too much to still get from the past.

Now as far as getting to characters we know and love, if we do not focus on the other survivors, how can them being killed have an effect on us?

I have faith in the writers that this time put in on bringing more characters to the surface is being done for a great purpose. The question is "what is that purpose?".

I am glad to finally see both groups get together. Will make for some really good shows. I am interested in seeing how the love triangle between Kate, Jack and Sawyer. How will Ana Lucia fit in since she killed Shannon. Can't wait to see how it all plays out.

I thought it was a great episode! It gave us a better idea of why Ana-Lucia was so paranoid about The Others and definitely helped to make me like her a bit more. I wasn't a big fan of hers before this episode but the care she showed for the children made her seem real.

I also think that it was interesting having the whole Goodwin aspect as it mirrors Ethan with the regular castaways. I think the episode also showed The Others more than ever before. We saw them attack and we saw them die. It gave a sense of reality to them that we otherwise didn't really understand with all the other questions we had on the island.

One thing that I'm curious about is the monster on the island. It never came to the other side of the island (to where the tail enders were) which may mean that there is a feeding ground for it on the side where the regular castaways are which, like everything else that gets shown to us, just makes us ask more questions!

yes I thought the format was fine for what they were trying to do, meaing the amount of time they wanted to spend on...the pacing was good although a two hour deal would have been ideal...I think it was a good balance by showing the Others were flesh and blood and could be killed but at the same time having plants in the midst of their groups ready to go and acting completely normal...that is strange and builds some nice paranoia...again this was a great episode and crafting Ana as a wedge is rife with potential and hopefully will allow her to get her wish of showing some acting range....

I really liked this episode and it renewed my faith in the show. The tension was so thick you could've cut it with a knife. Eko has now elevated himself to the character I wanted him to be. A gentle and caring giant who carrys a club to defend his companions and is just as enigmatic as Locke. He picks up a bible and is silent for 40 days. 40 days is an important number to people of the jewish/christian faith. It may have been his own version of pennance(sp?) for the killing (even if it was self defense - maybe - we didn't see what happened, i'm just assuming) of the "others". Have we found another "Man of Faith"? Remember there are two sides according to Locke. One light. One Dark. I don't know what motivates Locke, but he only seems to try to curry favor more than really helping for helping sake. Eko said , "It's what I do" when asked why he was helping Sawyer. I think something caused Eko to become the peaceful and helpful man he is, and I think (maybe) in his past life (in flashback) we're gonna see he's done horrible things he needs to atone for. Lots more Eko, please!

Libby was strong and decisive. Set that guy's leg with out a blink, and all along talked him into a calm state of mind. It was fabulous. Not to mention I think she's the hottest woman on the whole island.

Ana has shown that the "tough" *itch side was only a front (as I expected) and has true potential to be the catalyst for some action on the island. Becoming a cop changed my ex-wife. She used to talk to me like a I was in custody when she was mad. It's what cops do. I hated it when I was married, but I understood it. Police only deal with people who are criminals or other cops. So therefore if you're not a cop you're a criminal ( it's the psychological effect of the job). Most cops I know throw the word "citizen" arround like the way a Bigot says the N-Word, but it's just a defense mechanism. We see she does get sad and scared, but only when she has the time to do it. Expect the *itch to come back next episode, but if you hate her character remember this episode. Hope she kills Sayid... Ex Republican Guard meet someone who may have lost friends in the World Trade Center - I know the two aren't related (the war and terrorist threat - despite what the President says), but most Americans don't see the difference. I want him dead cause he tortured his own people (including Sawyer) and shows no remorse. Ana's shooting was accidental. Sayid's torture was intentional.

This show has just set up huge conflict. No one (but Sayid) thought much of Shannon, but she was one of them. I'll bet there's more to how the accidental shooting is going to effect the dynamic of the two "Clans" and Ana (Maybe in a flaskback?)

I have so much more but those were my favorite parts of the show. GOOD SHOW.

They didn't answer the questions I posted about the previous episodes, but they wrote such a good show and it was soooooo riveting that I didn't think about them. Next weeks episode may be different. But right now I'm satisfied. BTW every character reacted exactly as I expected a real human being would react... No Food, No Water, No Weapons, A Spy, dangerous interlopers, and kidnapping. WOW!!!!!!!! They fought, they paniced, they ran, and Ana figured it out. I wonder how she's gonna react when Jack shows his inept ability to form any kinda defense and inability to figure out what's going on. Ana figured out Goodwin (took 45 days - but figured it out) and actually took the time to interogate prisoners. Sayid couldn't even get Sawyer to talk after shoving Bamboo up his fingernails.

Romances I would like to see more than the previous episode.
Sawyer and Ana ( "Smart A**" meet "tough girl") - but it's gonna be Kate
Eko and Libby ("Gentle giant" meets "Strong Nuturer")


What did you guys/gals think?

I'm going to have to say that the episode was a C/C+. It wasn't the best by any stretch, but also wasn't the worst. It served the purpose of getting us caught up on the tailies without dragging it out over weeks. If they had done that, we'd lose some of the connection that we had with the front section. My wife was falling asleep, so it was obviously a bit slow at parts. She loves Lost and looks forward to it every Wednesday so her falling asleep tells me something. I liked the focus on Ecko and Ana Lucia (still hate her), but thought that Bernard, Cindy, and Libby were a bit lost behind them. Wanted to see more emphasis on them. Also wanted to see more on the crash. Overall, I liked the eppy, but it left me wanting a little more action.

I really enjoyed this epi. Eko has started his ascent into the super character status I think he deserves. I still don't like Ana Lucia, but I do see that she has been through a lot and has been a major help to the group.
I think that this epi did a great job of showing that the Others are actual people with a mysterious agenda. I think it also seemed to connect the Others to the Hanso foundation thru the conversation with Goodwin talking about being "in a better place" and "not a good person"......to me this is showing that they are somehow left over or still part of the Utopian studies mentioned in the Orientation film.
I also like that it answered without a doubt that Ana Lucia was the one who killed Shannon. So many of us out here were convinced it was a cover-up or misdirection. It was nice to be surprised.
I also think it opened new questions to keep us all looking for clues and watching....to me this episode was a perfect example of why I am HOOKED on LOST.

This show is one of the best of the new season. But I have to agree, cramming it in to one episode was difficult to watch sometimes, but now I don't have to wait to see how the two "clans" react. Ana has the tallies trust because she killed Goodwin (Which Eko covered for--- hmnn why? Did he think Jin wouldn't understand?). And Ana was the first to battle and did everything to protect the group, just as Eko did. (Did you notice everytime they were attacked it was when she listened to someone else's suggestion?) (IMO) Jack is gentle and rational. Ana is KGB like. Jack first in command, and Ana second would be awesome tension. Fight or Negotiate. One would care if lives are lost; the other would consider it the cost of defense. Jack wants the hatch to hide in. Ana will want it as a Base of Operations.

We know that Libby is a clinical psychologist. Not an MD but did go to med school. One of the areas of the orientation film that was discussed was psychology.... hmnn wonder what kinda insight she'll bring to the button pushing.

Cindy like the co-pilot was arround just long enough to give motivation to stay on the beach. The "we're off course" speech. Hope that isn't the end of her. I think she knew more. But then again, maybe it was the only way the writers could get them to want to stay on the Beach.

Cindy attended med school for one year. Didn't Desmond say something about almost being a doctor?

I think that the format was problematic....the "main" group's 48 days was portrayed over the course of 30 episodes, so showing 48 days for the tailies in 1 episode required a break-neck pace, where we only got significant moments here and there. Didn't do a lot for character development, but we had some really strong scenes, with the conversation between Goodwin and Ana Lucia taking the cake. All in all, I felt that the episode was a bit jumbled and rushed, but we still got some big plot points/hints, and I felt some sympathy for Ana for the first time.
Bingo. My thoughts exactly. It felt like they really rushed the show along but I guess they sort of had to. I was not expecting such a fast pace after a year of very slowly drawn out television. So it didnt feel like it was part of the Lost that I knew. But great revelations and tie ins....

To be quite honest, I'm ready to get back to the good old episode format.

You know, the one where familiar characters interact and you get some insight into their past from the flashbacks.

Lately we haven't seen any of the characters from season one that we have come to love... at all!

I think that Echo is gonna be something awesome. He has already joined Kate, Sawyer, and Locke as somebody that I think is gonna do something amazing.

Everyone on the island has their place.

Jack is a leader. Sawyer is a rebel. Kate is an adventurer. Locke is a hunter-philosopher.

Echo is the WARRIOR.
I concur. Echo is a warrior! The writers suggested that, like Locke, Echo gets something back that he had lost. I think that Echo is a raw warrior that had to sacrifice who he was for something else. I really look forward to his story. He has that quiet Rambo feel about him. He makes no noise, no waves. He just idly sits back and takes in his environment. He is acting every bit the warrior and I think (hope) that his characted development will be exceptional

I concur. Echo is a warrior! The writers suggested that, like Locke, Echo gets something back that he had lost. I think that Echo is a raw warrior that had to sacrifice who he was for something else. I really look forward to his story. He has that quiet Rambo feel about him. He makes no noise, no waves. He just idly sits back and takes in his environment. He is acting every bit the warrior and I think (hope) that his characted development will be exceptional

You guys are dead on. But one twist... he's the warrior priest. Crusader maybe. Gotta be tough to be a missionary in some of the countries in Africa (if that's where he's from). Lotsa rebellions and War lords... they don't like Priests much, they have a way of stopping the kiling with talks of peace, and in some cases helping those they're trying to Kill. "I will pray for Her."" I will pray that, too". "Married? : "Worse" (celibate maybe married to the church?). I think he's a priest or missionary. Maybe both.

You know, (not attacking the poster, just the trend), just once I'd like to see one of these opinion threads be titled something like "What did you think of tonight's episode?" Loved it or hated it doesn't leave a lot of room for anything in between. Yeah, I know it's just a dumb opinion thread like all the others, but can't an episode just be what it is? We don't go to a forum about a book and proclaim each chapter a huge success or a dismal failure before we get to the end. Well, I guess some of you would... heh.

I'm just weary of the idiots people that will automatically come to this thread and say they hate the episode, regardless of how it actually was, and then on the other end, there will be the loyalists who will defend even the crappiest episode of their favorite show (in this case, Lost) to their dying breath.

Sigh....

Well, I'd like to label the thread just Critical Discussion, but when we did that during other episodes, it did not attract much critical discussion about the show. I threw in the Love or Hate to be flashy and attract discussion on the quality of the episode. IMO as long as it isn't titled Worst Ever, I'm happy.

I think what we'll find later is that most of the others are actually pretty "normal" people - which I would like because I don't want this to turn into a super-natural type show...I do agree though that in the last couple of eps they made the others sound too powerful/scary...

That's one of my favorite things about this episode. We saw the Others! There was interaction with them. Eko killed two of them. Ana actually "interogated" Goodwin. There was no hype about it, it was just there. I was very intriqued with the others in this episode. They intermingled Goodwin into the group within minutes of the crash. They picked and chose who they were going to take from the group. They made a list of names and discriptions of them. They are normal people, some kind of society on the island, and Goodwin even made the jab at Ana about not being good enough to be choosen to be taken. I found this all very interesting.

I loved this eppy. One of my favorites this season. It tied lots of stuff together. Boone;s message, Goodwin's death, the Others exposed, why Jin was held captive, teddy bear. Of cource lots of new questions. But ain't that why we love this show?

Agreed. This is one of my favorites of the season so far and will probably be one of my favorites of the show. To me, this was up there with the Pilot, Walkabout, Numbers, and Raised By Another (my favorite episodes).

I really liked this episode and it renewed my faith in the show. The tension was so thick you could've cut it with a knife. Eko has now elevated himself to the character I wanted him to be. A gentle and caring giant who carrys a club to defend his companions and is just as enigmatic as Locke. He picks up a bible and is silent for 40 days. 40 days is an important number to people of the jewish/christian faith. It may have been his own version of pennance(sp?) for the killing (even if it was self defense - maybe - we didn't see what happened, i'm just assuming) of the "others". Have we found another "Man of Faith"? Remember there are two sides according to Locke. One light. One Dark. I don't know what motivates Locke, but he only seems to try to curry favor more than really helping for helping sake. Eko said , "It's what I do" when asked why he was helping Sawyer. I think something caused Eko to become the peaceful and helpful man he is, and I think (maybe) in his past life (in flashback) we're gonna see he's done horrible things he needs to atone for. Lots more Eko, please!

Libby was strong and decisive. Set that guy's leg with out a blink, and all along talked him into a calm state of mind. It was fabulous. Not to mention I think she's the hottest woman on the whole island.

Ana has shown that the "tough" *itch side was only a front (as I expected) and has true potential to be the catalyst for some action on the island. We see she does get sad and scared, but only when she has the time to do it. Expect the *itch to come back next episode, but if you hate her character remember this episode.
I have so much more but those were my favorite parts of the show. GOOD SHOW.

They didn't answer the questions I posted about the previous episodes, but they wrote such a good show and it was soooooo riveting that I didn't think about them. Next weeks episode may be different. But right now I'm satisfied. BTW every character reacted exactly as I expected a real human being would react... No Food, No Water, No Weapons, A Spy, dangerous interlopers, and kidnapping. WOW!!!!!!!! They fought, they paniced, they ran, and Ana figured it out. I wonder how she's gonna react when Jack shows his inept ability to form any kinda defense and inability to figure out what's going on. Ana figured out Goodwin (took 45 days - but figured it out) and actually took the time to interogate prisoners. Sayid couldn't even get Sawyer to talk after shoving Bamboo up his fingernails.

Romances I would like to see more than the previous episode.
Sawyer and Ana ( "Smart A**" meet "tough girl") - but it's gonna be Kate
Eko and Libby ("Gentle giant" meets "Strong Nuturer")


What did you guys/gals think?

Zealot, we seem to have similar reaction to the show and how we like it. (except for the Sayid thing, I like him and I think he is an interesting character, but I'll let that drop.

Well, as I said above, I love this episode. It was one of the better episodes in my opinion. I was worried about them cramming 48 days into one hour, but I thought they did an awesome job. They started with the serine beach scene and then WHAM! tail section crashes into the water (yeah, I know I had to suspend disbelief a little here. How on earth could anyone survive that, but still a good scene). I loved seeing how the tallies had to deal with the same issues the lostaways had to, but they didn't have the food or water or shelter, etc. They had to go into survival mode immediately. I liked learning more about the characters, the parrallels to what we already know happened (radio transmission, meeting the rafters, etc). I just thought the whole episode was well written and I was really happy about this one. I can't wait to watch it again. These are the kinds of episodes that make me love Lost. It was exciting, plus it set us up for conflicts to come in the next episode. Bravo!

Libby was strong and decisive. Set that guy's leg with out a blink, and all along talked him into a calm state of mind. It was fabulous. Not to mention I think she's the hottest woman on the whole island.


Libby? Hotter than Sun? Claire? Ana Lucia? Kate? To each their own, I guess...




We see she does get sad and scared, but only when she has the time to do it. Expect the *itch to come back next episode, but if you hate her character remember this episode. Hope she kills Sayid...Spoiler Ahead, Highlight to Read: Ex Republican Guard meet someone who may have lost friends in the World Trade Center - I know the two aren't related (the war and terrorist threat - despite what the President says), but most Americans don't see the difference. I want him dead cause he tortured his own people (including Sawyer) and shows no remorse. Ana's shooting was accidental. Sayid's torture was intentional.


I don't know about you, but if I wanted an Aesop fable, I'd read one. One of the good things about this show besides all the mystery and plot turns is that the characters are more than what they seem on the surface. Do you think everyone one is either good or bad, black or white? That the "bad" ones should be punished now in the show, on the island for things they did in their pasts? Sayid should be killed by Ana Lucia because of what he did 15 years prior? Did Shannon die because she had pre-marital coitus with a dark-skinned man?

Holy crap! You are one of the others! You only take the good!

I loved this eppy. It was rushed for sure. But it was great that they followed one group of people in a linear fashion without flashbacks or jumping from one scene to the next. With the original survivors, I was starting to feel that with some people in the caves, some on the beach, etc, that things were getting really jumpy and they were trying to have too many plot lines going at one time.

Plus, I think we will get more invested in the characters now, which the creators say they want. I think the fact that there are plot lines, such as the numbers, that the creators say will never be conlcuded, means that are trying to make viewers like the characters more and rely less on twisted plot mysteries as what fuels the show.

Love Eko, liking Ana more, especially since she's the first one on the island that actually broke down and cried over their situation.

Libby is a drag; can't wait for Bernard and Rose to reunite and Jin and Sun.

Loved the ending!

I can only judge an episode by my reaction
I haven't been this "edge of my seat" since the Walt kidnapping scene
The Goodwin/Anna scene with the apple and knife was the best scene of the year hands down

I like the end of the eppie where the fast forwarded time when they actually meet up with Jin,Michael, and Sweet Lips...hmmm I mean Sawyer...

It was a very entertaining hour of TV. I enjoyed it very much despite it's obvious flaws. And to say "We Got Nothing" means YOU got nothing. This is a show you either take away from, or you don't. The show doesn't give you anything.

The episode presented plenty to think about and look forward to. It had a lot of energy and a lot of interesting situations we haven't seen on the island yet.

I still think, like "adirft" Shannon's death may have been changed from a stabbing to a shooting at the last minute. I was a little put off by that situation, but it didn't ruin anything for me.

I have to admit, the promo for next week showing Jack and Echo in the bunker just looks strange. Seeing them in the bunker is like having a bachelor pad to hang out in while you are in prison or something. Visually it's such a stark contrast to the primal living above ground.

Re: Ecko as the Warrior Priest

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna (the God) explains to Arjuna (the warrior) that he must remain a warrior because it is within his intrinsic nature. He cannot be anything else and should not waiver or question his nature. Each person is put on this earth to serve a different purpose according to the Vedic and later-Vedic (Vedantic) ideas (from which Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, etc. descended) and it is not a crime or sin to be a warrior, or a King, or anything else for that matter. It's a somewhat simplified notion I'm using here, and it's quite close to a functionalist view of the world, but I think it's close enough.

It seems that Ecko quickly went from donning a suit to ripping his shirt off (sure it was bloody and there's no one nearly as large as him to exchange clothing, but so what?). However, when he finds the Bible he applies some sort of spirituality to his warrior nature. He is Arjuna, following his cosmic order or "Dharma", but not in a barbaric way; he does so in a spiritual way, he's guided by the order of things and by the bible (could be a reference to Krishna or a higher deity).

Furthermore, the concept of a glass eye and a bible. Blindness and Faith? I think that was thrown in simply to have us think about Locke type characters, what (we are to believe) Desmond is, etc...

It tickled me that this episode ran through 48 days in a little over an hour time slot, when it took more than a season to do it the 1st go-round. In some ways, I liked it that way because it got rid of all of the extraneous stuff like - "the baby's crying and I dont' know what to do" or "I lost my ring so I stopped looking and then I found it where everyone else knew it was".

I was waiting for something to happen to help me like AL, but that hasn't really happened (yet).

All in all, I enjoyed this show. There was some tension and some red herrings. I didn't pick up on Goodwin until he tried to force the solo-hike into the mountains with the radio. I liked the 2 Others attacks because they were confusing. It gave you the sense of what it must have felt like to be one of the Tailites. There were some questions answered and many more questions posed (which is truly the hallmark of a good Lost epi).

Just as a side note to another poster, 40 days is not just a judeo-christian concept. You will find that time span in many of the world's religions.

I enjoyed the episode but I did find the writing weak. The best scenes for me were the crash and libby's skiing story. I think Cynthia nailed that scene!

Obviously because of the format, it seemed really rushed. I didn't get the sense of paranoia that the tailies have been exhibiting in the past few eps, especially the chilling scene when Libby gets terrified because of the whispering in the last ep. As far as we know, the tailies never even hear the whispering before and it doesn't appear to be connected to the "others". We got some new mysteries which were cool, but they could have easily emphasized old mysteries paralleling discoveries of the group on the other side by adding a few lines here and there.

We could have had some kind of allusion to the black and white theme. Maybe the only thing in the pockets of one of the killed others were something black and white which could still lead Ana to say they were on the island before the plane crashed.

We could show mysterious island animals by even just showing Vincent for a scene. We know Vincent wanders off. It would have been cool if Vincent had found the tailies before but couldn't communicate that to the survivors on the other side. That would have given me the chills, like Bernard seeing Vincent and be like "how the hell did a pet dog get on the island" as Vincent runs off.

I would have loved to see more of Bernard breakdown, like he's 100% convinced Rose is dead. It would have been awesome, especially in contrast to Rose's complete faith. (I totally cried in the ep where Bernard finds out Rose is alive)

Ana could have casually mentioned, that Bernard was wasting his time with the radio because all they can pick up is that damn french transmission and none of them undestands French just before they hear Boone's message. I mean surely they would have flipped through the channels and found Danielle's transmission.

They could have hid more of the numbers we know about besides just the 23 survivors.

But the most disappointing really was the lack of whispers. It would have emphasized why Libby was so freaked out when they heard it in the last ep. Couldn't they have heard whispers just before the attack that took the 9 away. It would have been so chilling for me if they were prepared for the others coming, that they knew they were there and still powerless to stop them from taking 9 away. That would have been so much more scary, horrifying, and gut wrenching than what we got. Like Ana could have left Goodwin in charge of the children. That would have had a huge emotional payoff when we found out he was an other.

This is only my two cents. I love the show and it is so much easier to critique after the fact.

Sayid should be killed by Ana Lucia because of what he did 15 years prior? Did Shannon die because she had pre-marital coitus with a dark-skinned man?
Holy crap! You are one of the others! You only take the good! First off race has nothing to do with it. Eko and Libby was a romance I'd like to see because I find them to be the best of characters. Strong.. decisive... cautious... The Iraq war and the republican guard falling was only a couple of years ago not 15. And he tortured Sawyer last season ( less than a month ago) and he lost his job cause the US outsed his boss... enough with the race already... I don't like him as a character cause the writers wrote him that way... wanna change my mind, tell the writers to make him more sympathetic to me. Now that the race thing has come up... I promise not to bring up Sayid if you promise not to play the "race" card. 'cause it is a gross mis-characterisation (sp?) for the reasons why I dislike Sayid. So before I get yelled at for having inapropriate discussion here, I won't bring up how I feel about Sayid anymore.

Re: Ecko as the Warrior Priest

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna (the God) explains to Arjuna (the warrior) that he must remain a warrior because it is within his intrinsic nature. He cannot be anything else and should not waiver or question his nature. Each person is put on this earth to serve a different purpose according to the Vedic and later-Vedic (Vedantic) ideas (from which Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, etc. descended) and it is not a crime or sin to be a warrior, or a King, or anything else for that matter. It's a somewhat simplified notion I'm using here, and it's quite close to a functionalist view of the world, but I think it's close enough.

It seems that Ecko quickly went from donning a suit to ripping his shirt off (sure it was bloody and there's no one nearly as large as him to exchange clothing, but so what?). However, when he finds the Bible he applies some sort of spirituality to his warrior nature. He is Arjuna, following his cosmic order or "Dharma", but not in a barbaric way; he does so in a spiritual way, he's guided by the order of things and by the bible (could be a reference to Krishna or a higher deity).

Furthermore, the concept of a glass eye and a bible. Blindness and Faith? I think that was thrown in simply to have us think about Locke type characters, what (we are to believe) Desmond is, etc...
Fantastic analysis. It fits perfectly with the character. Hopefully the writer are thinking along the same lines. (IMO) The reluctant warrior is the best type of hero.

Just as a side note to another poster, 40 days is not just a judeo-christian concept. You will find that time span in many of the world's religions.
Good point. I only pointed out the Jewish/Christian thing cause he picked up the Bible. Ali Baba(Sp?) and the forty thieves... in the arabic culture it's akin to saying a lot of days
(or so I was told by my theology teacher in college). Very valid point.

Impressions I got of the main cast tailaways with the benefit of this episode:

Eko's life has been plagued by tragedy. The way he deals with death on such a personal level is that of someone who has been surrounded by death all their life.

Libby is an EXPERT liar and emotional manipulator.

Ana Lucia is exactly like Jack in that she is committed-to-a-fault.

I really liked the episode. The Goodwin and Ana Lucia confrontation is what we were cheated out of as far as Ethan was concerned, so I'm glad we got a tiny Q and A with someone who was on the island all along.
I loved the scene of the Others coming in at night for kidnapping purposes.

On the negative side, I thought the production values from the plane crash sequence were very lacking, especially compared to the plane crash sequence we got the the first episode of Season One. It looked like they ran out of money and so put the tail section in the water, so all they had to do was have actors flail around on the beach. It didn;t have the dramatic zing the other plance crash scene from last season had.

I also find myself getting more fatigued by the dangling plot threads. I am more than willing to be patient, since they have plans for several seasosn of shows. However, it is somewhat frustrating to build up stories and then leave them cold for weeks on end.

My complaints are minor for me- I still love the show and look forward to every episode.

I am filled with anticipation and can;t wait to see the two sides merge next week. Ana Lucia's style of leadership will surely conflcit with Jack's style... and can anyone be trusted?

Libby is an EXPERT liar and emotional manipulator.

Ana Lucia is exactly like Jack in that she is committed-to-a-fault.

Where did you get the impression Libby was an expert liar? I will have to watch again.

re: Jack and Ana - Couldn't agree more. I found that I was thinking back to Jack in the Pilot when I saw Ana taking charge right away.

I really liked the episode. The Goodwin and Ana Lucia confrontation is what we were cheated out of as far as Ethan was concerned, so I'm glad we got a tiny Q and A with someone who was on the island all along.
I loved the scene of the Others coming in at night for kidnapping purposes.


Yes! I feel the writer's have finally given us a little something that we've been complaining about. I loved the fact that Ana was able to confront Goodwin. We didn't gat all the answers, but we got some.

I can only judge an episode by my reaction
I haven't been this "edge of my seat" since the Walt kidnapping scene
The Goodwin/Anna scene with the apple and knife was the best scene of the year hands down

Me too. I was jumping and jittery and definately on the edge of my seat the whole show. I loved the short commercials. I've never watched an interesting show where your surprised it's back on already. My heart was racing for the whole hour plus a while afterwards, because of the short commercials. You never had a chance to catch your breath. Not wasting more eppies on their back story was brilliant, and gives them the opportunity to do island flashbacks later when it will make more sense to us, or fit in with the theme they're pushing that week.


I enjoyed the episode but I did find the writing weak. The best scenes for me were the crash and libby's skiing story. I think Cynthia nailed that scene!

I'm wondering if the dude (ski instructor) she mentions will come into play again? Was it Desmond or someone we've already met?


We could have had some kind of allusion to the black and white theme. Maybe the only thing in the pockets of one of the killed others were something black and white which could still lead Ana to say they were on the island before the plane crashed.

I could be way off here, but I thought they alluded to b/w with Nathan (dark haired) and Goodwin (light haired)? Could it have been a clue that the line between b/w is a lot finer than we think?


I would have loved to see more of Bernard breakdown, like he's 100% convinced Rose is dead. It would have been awesome, especially in contrast to Rose's complete faith. (I totally cried in the ep where Bernard finds out Rose is alive)

When Michael told Bernard Rose was alive is one of my alltime fav scenes. I didn't get a strong impression on what Bernard believes, but hopefully that's going to be explored more when they reunite.


Ana could have casually mentioned, that Bernard was wasting his time with the radio because all they can pick up is that damn french transmission and none of them undestands French just before they hear Boone's message. I mean surely they would have flipped through the channels and found Danielle's transmission.

They could have hid more of the numbers we know about besides just the 23 survivors.

Yeah, why didn't Bernard ever hear the french chick, or did he and we will see that in future flashbacks? If he was turning it on a couple minutes everyday the odds are he has? I'm not that thrilled with the numbers anymore, now that the writers have said they don't even know what they mean??? Between that and their dissing us theorists has left a bad taste in my mouth, that I hope goes away soon, because I love the show so much.

If Bernard turned on the radio 2-3 min. a day for 48 days.........and this is reaching.........he could have listened to 108 minutes of static?? Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Similarites of situation but different paths between lostways and tailaways.

Both story lines started with calm ( Jack in forest start of pilot / "Corona Commercial" like start of 48 days) followed by extreme violence
One passenger had leg injury. One treated by a doctor and was fine. One died because of infection.

One group had relative calm before the others came many episodes later. The Tailaways had to deal with it right away.

One group had food. One didn't.
One had weapons. One didn't
One had shelter. One didn't.
One had raw materials to canabilize. One didn't.

I think the biggest difference is that the Lostways had it really easy. The Tailaways had it rough. Makes you wonder if Jack would be Jack if he landed with Ana's group?

I do have to say that this was my least favorite episode of the season so far. To say I hated it would be going too far, but I was disappointed. That said, I give the creative team a lot of credit for trying to do something ambitious - compress 48 days of story, with characters we aren't yet that familiar with, into 45 minutes of TV time. For me, they just didn't pull it off completely, and maybe it was too much to expect. My only caveat is that I had a very long (and no fun) day yesterday, so maybe I was extra cranky and critical. I'll re-watch it in re-runs.

The most egregious example was "Day N: The travellers are walking along and all of a sudden they bump into an abandoned bunker." I was hoping to see the characters interact with each other more, but with the exception of Eko comforting Ana, it didn't really happen. And Ana dug a 12-foot deep pit by herself in a couple of days? The woman has muscles of steel!

Also, as I said somewhere else, the Others didn't really stir my blood as I had hoped. Ana and Eko each killed two of them, so we know they're not invincible. I don't know that anything we saw justified the stark terror that they seemed to have inspired in even such a stolid man as Eko. Fear, yes. Anger, yes. But not, "My God, these people are unstoppable!"

I do feel more sympathy towards the Ana Lucia character, and am a bit more intrigued by Eko and Libby. Ana's climactic scene with Goodwin was awesome (even though I had pegged him as the bad guy already) and he dropped some tantalizing clues before getting skewered.


Libby is an EXPERT liar and emotional manipulator.

How do you figure? Based on her surprising the guy with the broken leg? She looked like a horrible liar when she told Sawyer he was doing fine with his injury.


Everyone on the island has their place.

Jack is a leader. Sawyer is a rebel. Kate is an adventurer. Locke is a hunter-philosopher.

Echo is the WARRIOR.
Kind of a reluctant warrior, though, no?


This show is one of the best of the new season. But I have to agree, cramming it in to one episode was difficult to watch sometimes, but now I don't have to wait to see how the two "clans" react. Ana has the tallies trust because she killed Goodwin (Which Eko covered for--- hmnn why? Did he think Jin wouldn't understand?). And Ana was the first to battle and did everything to protect the group, just as Eko did. (Did you notice everytime they were attacked it was when she listened to someone else's suggestion?) (IMO) Jack is gentle and rational. Ana is KGB like. Jack first in command, and Ana second would be awesome tension. Fight or Negotiate. One would care if lives are lost; the other would consider it the cost of defense. Jack wants the hatch to hide in. Ana will want it as a Base of Operations.
Kind of funny how our positions were reversed last week - you didn't like the episode and I defended it! You've got an interesting point about the difference in Jack's and Ana's styles, although they both sort of gravitated to leadership almost despite themselves. I can see them clashing a lot. Should be fun. And I don't think Eko was "covering for" Ana, he just couldn't explain the whole situation to someone who didn't understand English. BTW, I loved the defiant expression on Jin's face while the tailenders were trying to interrogate him.

Ana actually "interogated" Goodwin. There was no hype about it, it was just there. I was very intriqued with the others in this episode. They intermingled Goodwin into the group within minutes of the crash.

This is a very important and subtle point which deserves attention. The Others had their spy all ready to go, didn't they? Which means that they knew a plane was going to crash there. That points directly towards the crash, and maybe even the seating of individual passengers, being deliberate. What's more, the agency that caused the crash is in contact and collaboration with the Others on the island. Hmm....and an airline employee who survived multiple attacks by the Others has just disappeared under mysterious circumstances....

There was very little for me to complain about with this episode. We got the actions, the adventure, some answers and some more mystery which is more than enough to keep me going.

The only think I would have liked to have seen would be the conversations of the tailees while the raftees were in the hole. Arguing about whether they were real survivors or not...and the conversation Michael had with them when they pulled him out. Things like "Yes..we have a doctor named Jack etc etc...' I'd like to know what actually convinced them that they were also 815survivors?

I thought it was interesting that Ana mentioned Jin's handcuff. I would be suspicious of that myself!

The only think I would have liked to have seen would be the conversations of the tailees while the raftees were in the hole. Arguing about whether they were real survivors or not...and the conversation Michael had with them when they pulled him out. Things like "Yes..we have a doctor named Jack etc etc...' I'd like to know what actually convinced them that they were also 815survivors?



Didn't we already see those conversations a couple of weeks ago, when we saw it from Jin/Mike/Sawyer's POV?

No. All we saw was Michael and Jin get pulled out of the hole...Sawyer left to stew. Then afterwards she told Sawyer to climb the rope...and after he was up Michael told him they were able to convince them that they were on the plane too. We didn't hear any of that conversation. Exactly WHAT did Michael say that convinced them that they were for real?

yeah, okay I remember now, she let them out and then they came back. Yeah, maybe we'll get filled in on some of that. Does she know about the monster/security system at all? polar bears?

Kind of funny how our positions were reversed last week - you didn't like the episode and I defended it!

I smiled when I saw we we're on opposite sides of this issue. Perhaps next episode we'll agree. You have very valid points... It's mainly my favorite of the new season because of the characters and the establishment of Eko as a character. And it built up the anticipation of the next episode. Back story is always good. Plus, finally someone is asking questions.

The thing I liked best about the episode was that we finally broke out of the iron-clad flashback structure the show has been adhering to since the beginning. While I love the flashback concept and the way it's been executed, it IS getting a bit stale, especially when some of the flashbacks are a bit too weak to support as much attention as it given.

I'd be happy if they continued to frequently drop in some different show structures amid the flashbacks. Keep the flashbacks for those that MATTER and have real relevance. No more flashbacks showing Michael sad about not being able to be with his kid. I can handle flashbacks where he might have an encounter that means nothing to him, but that WE realize the importance of. But that can't happen, because the flashback has to always emotionally tie in with whatever the island plot of the week is. I love getting to know the characters more, but the flashbacks can't just be for the sake of "that's how we've been doing the show so we have to keep doing them."

Tthere's still a lot we need to find out about the characters.

Hurley (no more "everyone hates me because I have something" episodes, please) like why was he in the mental hospital, give us more with the guy with the numbers, etc.

We need to find out more about how Locke got in the wheelchair.

Jack, we really only need to find out what happened in his marriage.

Sawyer, we need to figure out who the real Sawyer is.

Kate, we need to figure out what she did and more about her life of travel with her dad.

Sun and Jin, who was the person they were giving the watch to in LA?

Claire, what happened to her when she was abducted?

Charlie, I don't know what else we need to find out about him that has massive relevance.

Rose, not much else we need to find out about.

Mr Eko, tons of stuff we need to learn.

Walt, we need to find out lots about his youth, and all the 'special' things he did growing up.


Outside of these mysteries, I'm not sure what else we are clamoring for as an audience.

I don't need any more episodes showing how Jack has issues with his parents and how he struggled with decisions. Got it.

I hope they don't diminish the power of the flashbacks by having irrelevant (to the plot) flashbacks. I guess each flashback should have a REVELATION that we didn't see coming. Otherwise, it's probably something that could have been demonstrated better by how that character is acting and interacting on the island in the present.


All that said, I thought this episode was awesome and brought the show to a new level.

Did you love or hate the episode? Let's have a critical discussion about the epsiode. If you didn't like the episode or the dirrection Lost is going in, why? If you loved the episode, defend it.

Be nice. Attack the post, not the poster. Let's just debate.

Meh. I liked the opening scene with the tail section crashing into the water. And I liked the whole Goodwin is an Other angle. But none of the characters (even Mr. Eko for the most part) was particularly likable or even interesting. The Hatch discovery was pretty boring and useless. And we got almost nada on the Others despite the fact that their feet were all over this episode.

Ana's confrontation with Goodwin could have been a huge (I mean huge) redeemer of the episode but he never really said anything except wanting to take "good people". Whatever.

I basically got two things out of this episode: (1) the writers can be counted on to kill or disappear the Others before they can talk; and (2) if we go back and edit the first season of Lost to just cull the plot points and ditch all the flashbacks and character development we could probably tell the story of their first 48 days in less than an hour, too.

I was disappointed in the episode. I thought they rushed through everything. They obviously weren't going to devote an entire season to the tail section, but it just seemed too rushed to do it in only one episode. Some of the scenes were good, but all in all it didn't keep my attention like the other (LOL) episodes. I still have zero sympathy for Ana Lucia. Sure they went through a hard time with some of their group being kidnapped, but they were the only ones doing the killing. And right from the first scene of AL after the crash, she seemed like a dictating Vincent.

Rose, not much else we need to find out about.



I disagree... we don't really know that much about her past, do we? I would love to learn more about her past.

I don't feel that we have to have a huge OMG REVELATION about each character's background in every flashback. As long as the flashback sort of mirrors what the character is going through during the episode, it's cool with me (and as long as it's done well). The little details help flesh out the show and add to the story. This is how I feel anyway. I like how they have been doing so far with the way small things are revisited in later episodes, and they really pay off people who have been paying attention.

Probably the only episode where I thought the flashbacks were sort of lame was "Homecoming". Charlie's flashbacks were just weak compared to what was going on at the island (the return of the ETHANATOR and all of his bad@$$ery).

I disagree... we don't really know that much about her past, do we? I would love to learn more about her past.

I don't feel that we have to have a huge OMG REVELATION about each character's background in every flashback. As long as the flashback sort of mirrors what the character is going through during the episode, it's cool with me (and as long as it's done well). The little details help flesh out the show and add to the story. This is how I feel anyway. I like how they have been doing so far with the way small things are revisited in later episodes, and they really pay off people who have been paying attention.

Probably the only episode where I thought the flashbacks were sort of lame was "Homecoming". Charlie's flashbacks were just weak compared to what was going on at the island (the return of the ETHANATOR and all of his bad@$$ery).
I orginally thought Rose would be a bigger part. but I don't think enough of her demographic (over 40 women) watches the show so they might not. She is old enough to be from the original Dharma project or know someone from it. So is Bernard. They may not be completely oblivious to what is going on. That would be cool. Hurley was in the Santa Rosa mental hospital. Saint Rose? Alvar Hanso. Alvar = Hindu Saint. 12 of them and among them is 1 woman. 108 temples. Twelve in the circle of hippies in the orientation film. Pretty neat huh? I hope it'll happen. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Funny how the producers said they had to kill off Shannon to raise the "life and death stakes," yet this was the episode that I thought really injected the tension and drama back into the island.

The format was a nice change of pace. It was too rushed to work as a linear script, but they were wise not to edit or direct it like one. Instead, it was a serious of strong images and moments that left a powerful impression by the end — rekindling the chaos of the pilot episode that hooked us all in to begin with.

As for answers, we got our best look yet at the Others and a little more depth to all the tailies. That will make next week's payoff episode all the more of a payoff.

The thing I liked best about the episode was that we finally broke out of the iron-clad flashback structure the show has been adhering to since the beginning. While I love the flashback concept and the way it's been executed, it IS getting a bit stale, especially when some of the flashbacks are a bit too weak to support as much attention as it given.

Couldn't agree with you more. The tension was sustained throughout this episode cause we never had to break away to some innoculous pre-island setting. I also think this episode proved with Eko that you can learn the background of a character without having to spell it out exactly in pre-island flashbacks. The hints we got of the tailies (him in particular) by watching them on the island were tip of the iceburg revelations that gave them humanity and stoked our imaginations at the same time.

I still have zero sympathy for Ana Lucia. Sure they went through a hard time with some of their group being kidnapped, but they were the only ones doing the killing. And right from the first scene of AL after the crash, she seemed like a dictating Vincent.
I think she showed a lot of warmth reviving Emma and especially rescuing Bernard. And I'm not so sure that the Others didn't kill some of them, particularly the first night when they picked off the strong ones. If I were in Ana's position, I certainly wouldn't be trusting in their mercy.

I smiled when I saw we we're on opposite sides of this issue. Perhaps next episode we'll agree. You have very valid points... It's mainly my favorite of the new season because of the characters and the establishment of Eko as a character. And it built up the anticipation of the next episode. Back story is always good. Plus, finally someone is asking questions.
Yes, the conversation between Ana and Goodwin was among the episode's high points. Gave us a new way of looking at the Others and a new mystery to ponder. They only take "good people"?

The thing I liked best about the episode was that we finally broke out of the iron-clad flashback structure the show has been adhering to since the beginning. While I love the flashback concept and the way it's been executed, it IS getting a bit stale, especially when some of the flashbacks are a bit too weak to support as much attention as it given.

I would be happy to see the flashbacks used only if there's a good story reason to have one.

I enjoyed this episode. It is one of my favorites this season along with "Man of Science" and "Orientation". I really haven't liked any of the other episodes. I liked the pace of this episode. Obviously they had to pack it all in together, I think they did a good job of that. I did not like how they made Nathan seem like Ethan being from Canada and the similar names because now they are saying he isn't an "other". Why was he in the jungle for 2 hours alone? I would've like the concept of Nathan and Ethan knowing each other or even being related some how. I like how at the end they kind of showed things in slow motion. That was neat. All in all I give this episode a B+. One more question though, I wonder if they will show flashbacks of all the tail survivors, not just Ana Lucia.

neither loved nor hated, but I felt the pace was off. It was so quick, actually racing by for the final few days. The truth is I was glad as I want to get back to the original characters. We did learn a little more with Goodwin and the taking of the children (and the teddy bear.) I guess I was anticipating something a little more harrowing or enlightening, I am glad to be going back to the other end of the island.:undecide:

I actually liked this episode alot! I thought the writers crammed quite a bit of information into an hour episode.

And my dislike for Ana is starting to fade - although quite slooooooooowly. Much like Sawyer started out as the most-hated character, Ana seems to have taken his place. But as we began to "see" Sawyer through his backstory, our dislike (I never disliked him - I was smitten at first sight...) of him began to fade as well.I think it will be the same with Ana.

I am truly intrigued by her now!! One time I'm thinking - she's a cop! Then - military!! It's got to be military! Then - assassin! I really want to know who she is!

Mr. Ecko - I want to know more about him as well!! I'm thinking... Missionary?? Reformed prisoner? He was so broken up after killing the Others.

I thought this was a great "summary" of the 48 days of the Tail Section. It took us a whole Season to get throught the first 48 days with Jack et al. So, I thought this was a good overview. I wish it had been 2 hours - that would have been ideal!!

I agree with the flashback suggestion. They don't 'need' to have them every episode unless they offer real NEW insight into the character.

I loved this episode. I think each instalment is better than the one before, as the story progresses, so does the story-telling.

I didn't feel the pacing was rushed at all as I see some have mentioned. I thought it was cool how we just touched in at times to see some significant development. I've never been stranded on an island but I imagine there would be some repetition to the day after day existence, and as we skip through the days, that repetition is implied, so we get more of a feel of how it is for them.

Plus on a personal note, I find it amusing to hear the bad guys say they're from Canada. (first South Park and now Lost). This is wa-ay better than being ignored. :msn-wink: Not that we crave attention or anything.

And I thought at the end where they brought the overlapping storylines together was beautiful. I have no idea how they could have done that any better. Each week I get more excited to see what they're going to do next and how they're going to do it. Best Drama for sure, no doubt.

I think she showed a lot of warmth reviving Emma and especially rescuing Bernard. And I'm not so sure that the Others didn't kill some of them, particularly the first night when they picked off the strong ones. If I were in Ana's position, I certainly wouldn't be trusting in their mercy.

The Others may have killed some of them, but that was never shown or discussed so far. I didn't get the warm vibe from the situations you mentioned. Not saying it wasn't there, but I just didn't pick up on it. So I still hate AL. I'd rather sit through an entire episode of nothing but Jack and Kate than watch her. Ugh.

Plus on a personal note, I find it amusing to hear the bad guys say they're from Canada. (first South Park and now Lost). This is wa-ay better than being ignored. :msn-wink: Not that we crave attention or anything.

See I knew the Canadians were up to no good... All that eh stuff after they say something. Great Day, eh? Where ya going, eh? It's cold out, eh?

See, I always thought the Dutch were evil... ya know cause nobody really knows em. They Speak Dutch, They live in Holland. and call themselves Nederlanders... Netherland... Nether World hmnnn They're hiding something. But the Canadians, with their socialized medicine, civilized society, and great standard of living... something must be done. It's just too cold up there for people to be that nice... they've gotta be up to something.

When people don't like a character nothing they do is right. They could cure cancer and it wouldn't matter. I still don't find Sawyer funny or cute or anything but annoying. He doesn't bother me as much as he once did but I have a hard time finding anything about him I like. So I understand people not picking up on anything she might do as positive. Its like having this 'negative' lens in front of your face and the positive just won't come through...:ohwell:

The Others may have killed some of them, but that was never shown or discussed so far. I didn't get the warm vibe from the situations you mentioned. Not saying it wasn't there, but I just didn't pick up on it. So I still hate AL. I'd rather sit through an entire episode of nothing but Jack and Kate than watch her. Ugh.
I understand where you're coming from cause most people don't like her and I can't argue with their reasons... so I'll tell you why I like her instead.

She has a desire and need to help and protect others... I find that a most desirable trait. She's got that New York accent. I think it's kinda sexy. She's tough when she has to be but has tender moments too. She's honest (Sometimes brutally - which is the part most people don't like) and I know where she stands. Everyone else on the island is nothing like her.
I've heard rumors about the "special" relationship in her future episoides. But I think, either
A ) they're true and it's not gonna make me like her less, or
B ) The rumor is FALSE and it's not gonna make me like her less.

I've told why i like her ... why don't you like Ana as a character?

When people don't like a character nothing they do is right. They could cure cancer and it wouldn't matter. I still don't find Sawyer funny or cute or anything but annoying. He doesn't bother me as much as he once did but I have a hard time finding anything about him I like. So I understand people not picking up on anything she might do as positive. Its like having this 'negative' lens in front of your face and the positive just won't come through...:ohwell:

Com'on ya gotta at least enjoy his smart a** response to people ( Even when he 's facing imminent(sp?) doom.) e.g.
(in the pit)
Sawyer to Ana: You want me? Your gonna have to come down ( Slam - the lid comes down Blackout the scene)
Sawyer: B*tch.

And the delivery was perfect contempt. He's about to die and he's still mouthing off.

Ya gotta love his defiance.

"Shrink, huh? Why don't you talk to my shoulder."

I was a bit disappointed.
Although it did "fill-in" some new things, it really only showed us things we assumed anyway, such as Boone talking to the tailies, we figured that much already.
I guess actually seeing it though lets us know it is fact now.

I am still not satisfied with Ana Lucia having a valid reason for being so bossy and *itchee. From this last episode, I still don't see her having a reason to hit sawyer like she did :(

And why did she take the receiver away from Bernard and turn it off like that. Why would they not think there could be other survivors out there talking to them?

Her having to control everything still gets on my nerves even after that episode.

If she acts all high horse with the original survivors, I'm gonna puke!
She's coming into their camp and someone needs to knock her off her stool!

Com'on ya gotta at least enjoy his smart a** response to people ( Even when he 's facing imminent(sp?) doom.) e.g.
(in the pit)
Sawyer to Ana: You want me? Your gonna have to come down ( Slam - the lid comes down Blackout the scene)
Sawyer: B*tch.

And the delivery was perfect contempt. He's about to die and he's still mouthing off.

Ya gotta love his defiance.

"Shrink, huh? Why don't you talk to my shoulder."

Nope..sorry. I don't 'love' him in any way shape or form. He annoys me to no end but like I said not as bad as he used to. Its not that I'm liking him any more...I'm just sort of getting used to him.

See I knew the Canadians were up to no good... All that eh stuff after they say something. Great Day, eh? Where ya going, eh? It's cold out, eh?

See, I always thought the Dutch were evil... ya know cause nobody really knows em. They Speak Dutch, They live in Holland. and call themselves Nederlanders... Netherland... Nether World hmnnn They're hiding something. But the Canadians, with their socialized medicine, civilized society, and great standard of living... something must be done. It's just too cold up there for people to be that nice... they've gotta be up to something.

:harhar1: The real mystery of Lost is the Canadian connection. We know things that you don't, and we're not telling. Just kidding. I laughed hard when I read your post, thanks for that.

If she acts all high horse with the original survivors, I'm gonna puke!
She's coming into their camp and someone needs to knock her off her stool!
Ya know it's gotta happen. I mean the writers had the two groups go thru the same stuff (Crash etc... but there wasn't any food, doctors, antibiotics, etc... in Ana's clan) So under pressure and Ana has shown herself to be a capable leader and bad stuff only happens when she let's someone else make the decision... Jack has crumbled at every turn. In one of the promos they show Jack meeting eko for the first time... Jack looks like he's gonna soil his pants. Get out the bucket.... you're gonna be pukin'. It's inevitable. I'm just looking for good conflict that's believable.

I really enjoyed this episode. I thought it was very entertaining. I think people are just mad cause the episode proved that Ana Lucia killed Shannon.

I understand where you're coming from cause most people don't like her and I can't argue with their reasons... so I'll tell you why I like her instead.

She has a desire and need to help and protect others... I find that a most desirable trait. She's got that New York accent. I think it's kinda sexy. She's tough when she has to be but has tender moments too. She's honest (Sometimes brutally - which is the part most people don't like) and I know where she stands. Everyone else on the island is nothing like her. I've told why i like her ... why don't you like Ana as a character?

Hmm, Zealot. We seem to have a lot of the same opinions. I love Ana for all the reasons you say above. I also like strong women characters that speak their minds, take control, etc. I'm a Philly/Jersey girl, so perhaps I'm used to these type of women. :undecide: Oh, well. I just love her.

Oh, and can you spolier font that illusion to the rumor. I haven't heard the rumor, but I don't want to start guessing at what the rumor might be.

I understand where you're coming from cause most people don't like her and I can't argue with their reasons... so I'll tell you why I like her instead.

She has a desire and need to help and protect others... I find that a most desirable trait. She's got that New York accent. I think it's kinda sexy. She's tough when she has to be but has tender moments too. She's honest (Sometimes brutally - which is the part most people don't like) and I know where she stands. Everyone else on the island is nothing like her.
I've told why i like her ... why don't you like Ana as a character?

I have no problem whatsoever with her helping people, but it seems to me that she does so not out of wanting to help them, but rather out of a sense of obligation that she seems to resent. It's like she feels that unless she dictates what has to be done, then it won't get done. So her barking orders at people that they will only rest for 5 minutes only makes other people ticked off, and then she starts to resent them not listening to her or complaining, regardless if she had their best interests in mind. At least that's how I see it. I have no problem with her telling the truth, no matter how brutal it may seem. I respect honesty much more than I do lies and manipulation, although on this show that seems to be thrown out the window. :rolleyes:

Oh, and can you spolier font that illusion to the rumor. I haven't heard the rumor, but I don't want to start guessing at what the rumor might be. All spoil fonted... My appologies. I thought I was being vague enough, but on second reading you were correct. It was just a rumor, cause of something the exec producer said. He didn't clairfy what he meant by it... somebody took it upon themselves to say it. I think it's ashame that the one tough woman on the show that doesn't step off a wheaties box is instantly type cast. you might wanna spoil font your reply to me or take my quote out, so I don't cause any more inadvertent(sp?) damage to the spoil-free.

Btw me = Born Chicago, went to HS in NJ., RU Grad (New Brunswick) lived in Phila before I moved here. Knew a lota girls like Ana. Very passionate. Love Philly. Jim's is still on South right? People usually call it Pat's but I think it's Jim's. Fly Eagle Fly.

Well, I haven't heard any rumours so I can't comment on those one way or the other. I have no problem whatsoever with her helping people, but it seems to me that she does so not out of wanting to help them, but rather out of a sense of obligation that she seems to resent. It's like she feels that unless she dictates what has to be done, then it won't get done. So her barking orders at people that they will only rest for 5 minutes only makes other people ticked off, and then she starts to resent them not listening to her or complaining, regardless if she had their best interests in mind. At least that's how I see it. I have no problem with her telling the truth, no matter how brutal it may seem. I respect honesty much more than I do lies and manipulation, although on this show that seems to be thrown out the window. :rolleyes:

Very well said. I agree it is the most difficult part of her personality. When she's "barking" like that I know she is trying to motivate them like a drill sargent (sp?) . She's a tough leader but she only pushes them so far before she relents. When it looked like the team would be willing to disolve, she agreed to stop. And began digging. And her instincts were dead on. Nathan wasn't a very good person.

PS. I was asked to spoil font my post. could you spoil font my quote in your response. or take my quote out. I don't wanna aid the rumor mill.

Very well said. I agree it is the most difficult part of her personality. When she's "barking" like that I know she is trying to motivate them like a drill sargent (sp?) . She's a tough leader but she only pushes them so far before she relents. When it looked like the team would be willing to disolve, she agreed to stop. And began digging. And her instincts were dead on. Nathan wasn't a very good person.

PS. I was asked to spoil font my post. could you spoil font my quote in your response. or take my quote out. I don't wanna aid the rumor mill.

Thanks. I may end up liking her in the future, but as of now I don't. But I'm open to it. :ohwell:

No problem, I'll take care of that now.

Very well said. I agree it is the most difficult part of her personality. When she's "barking" like that I know she is trying to motivate them like a drill sargent (sp?) . She's a tough leader but she only pushes them so far before she relents. When it looked like the team would be willing to disolve, she agreed to stop. And began digging. And her instincts were dead on. Nathan wasn't a very good person.


Where do you get that? Her "instincts" were all wrong. Nathan was innocent. She threw him in a hole, asked him a grand total of two questions (okay, there was also the unanswerable question: "Why didn't I see you?"), withheld food and presumably water, didn't allow him bathroom access (which apparently was a big deal to Nathan!) and announced her intention to begin cutting off his fingers. Nathan was in a lose-lose situation: continue to insist he was on the plane and stay in the hole, or say he was not on the plane, get hauled out and killed.

Then she used the same pit to imprison the Raftaways--no questions asked.

In other words, she's a shoot (or imprison) first and ask questions later (if ever) kind of person.

All spoil fonted... My appologies. Btw me = Born Chicago, went to HS in NJ., RU Grad (New Brunswick) lived in Phila before I moved here. Knew a lota girls like Ana. Very passionate. Love Philly. Jim's is still on South right? People usually call it Pat's but I think it's Jim's. Fly Eagle Fly.

All fixed. Thanks. Yes Jim's is still on South Street. Pat's is different. I've never had Pat's or Geno's steak, but love Jim's steaks.

Anyway, sorry for the off topic.

That's right, theZealot. We're not saying a thing. Way to go Waltisfuture.


And I have yet to say "eh" in any of my posts!! Am I going to have to speak to Zolthan about you? :msn-wink:

I loved the episode.
I especially loved the insight into the 'others'. I found most poignant was the remark Goodwin made "maybe they aren't attacking you". Made me question whether the 'others' motives some more, past the crazed nutter kids I thought they were ;)

It was nice to see Ana Lucia as a human with emotions rather than Robot Girl. I think the insight into her was necessary to understand her actions over the last few episodes.

It was rushed, yes. But now the plot can proceed and we can get even more answers (and questions too no doubt)

To me the first 40 minutes of the episode made for a compelling, interesting and different hour of television. The thrill and mystery of the new group and new perspective hearkened back to the very first episodes of Lost, as was most likely intended. Though I enjoyed the story as its own self-contained unit I just had this weird feeling in throughout the episode. I found myself asking questions like, "Where's Kate?" and "What about the hatch and Desmond?" not to mention Jack has been on screen for about a nano-second over the last month. I know this sounds like I'm saying, "I don't like this. I want my old Lost back" but I really did find this episode strange.

It was indeed admirable for the creative team to take a departure from their "traditional" storytelling method but at the same time I felt the episode slowed the momentum of the series down to almost a dead stop. I know that scheduling is not up to the writers and producers entirely but they had to have some idea of when these shows would air. I understood the much needed breather of "Everybody Hates Hugo" and the departure of "And Found" was a welcome surprise if only to reintroduce the idea of the Others, but having to wait three weeks for "Abandoned" only to be left hanging once again during this last episode was borderline tedious.

I liken this to a really elongated, gratuitous guitar solo in the middle of a great song. At some point you're listening and you just think, "Get to the frickin' point already!" Again, I enjoyed this look into the other side of the island as it offered a slightly different angle on the Others but nothing "mind boggling" IMO. And at the end of this jaunt "the Tailies" are only 4... maybe 5 people maximum which means they are just going to have to assimilate into the group anyway. I'm anxious to see how they're going to land on their feet again next week. Any confrontation between the groups is likely to be short-lived when you consider that Ana Lucia's lone supporters are going to consist of Eko and possibly Libby (Bernard has other things to attend to). I'm not terribly excited that the next back-story is Ana Lucia either. Hasn't the audience gotten a big enough dose of her for the time being, from a storytelling perspective. I get it, at least. She's been hardened by her experiences and is afraid of losing control... in the meantime could we get a little info on what the hell happened to Desmond or the Dharma shark or Claire's memory or Danielle?

I realize that my own post has turned into a rather gratuitous litany of complaints... wrapping up. :redface: Hopefully all these other stories will be dealt with as the season progresses. These were my thought during my two viewings of this "experimental" hour of television. Anyone care to agree/disagree?

I wrote my complain in another thread (that was about the good-naughty list, so it was completely off topic). I will copy it here and delete it from there.

I absolutely agree with the issues brought by njvol27 here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=611139&postcount=52). I already wrote against any odds that the tailies could survive to the touchdown with the ocean in an old thread when it appeared clear that the tailies survived (maybe in "... And found").

I also argue that they could land in a completely different side of the island, since the plane wasnt turning in the dive, and absolutely not that close to the shore, since it was free falling by the point the tail got separated from the rest of the plane (who had a higher momentum and speed) which touched down on the shore.

Depressurization, chill, sheer terror, the touchdown from 10000 meters or so: any of these reasons could be enough to drop any survival chances to 0: and yet they not only survive in 25 (23?) people, but they manage to SWIM to the shore. I am not going to buy it: I call it jumping the shark, and it is an offense to my intelligence.

Lost used to be a show of suspence and thrill: where are they, who are the others, and so on. It makes you think hard about what is happening, trying to outwit or anticipate the authors, or at least to follow their mental paths. I dont think I am supposed to watch the show blank-minded, as i am watching at Sex and the City or Dharma and Greg. The authors actually put tiny clues, spotable only by watching the show frame by frame, and then do such huge plot holes, because they need to put in other actors for marketing reasons and eventually to make a short story longer by a couple of seasons.

If the rules of this world dont apply to the show, then the show is a waste of time, since they can make appear the Archangel Raphael who heals everybody, or maybe they are in a parallel universe and eventually the Enterprise will come to save the day, or maybe tomorrow will appear some Ewoks who enroll them for the battle against the Emperor's troops.

Moreover, i made a promise to myself: if they didnt reveal anything about any mistery in this episode, and/or add more stuff in the cauldron just to make the situation even more confused, I would stop watching the show. This is what happened, and this is what I am going to do. Enough.

I wrote my complain in another thread (that was about the good-naughty list, so it was completely off topic). I will copy it here and delete it from there.

I absolutely agree with the issues brought by njvol27 here (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=611139&amppostcount=52). I already wrote against any odds that the tailies could survive to the touchdown with the ocean in an old thread when it appeared clear that the tailies survived (maybe in “... And found”;).


All I have to say is that your arguments are very valid, and illustrate everything that says the crash should've killed more people (if any should've survived at all...) There have been flights that have crashed in the water shortly after takeoff (Not from 30,000 feet) and there were less surviors... that being said...

The writers have shown they have no concern for the scientific if it doesn't fit the story. e.g. (IMO) Arzt symbolized all of the “reality” critics and they blew him up in such a comical way that it had to be a joke about those who pick apart the believable from the unbelievable. He knows how to handle it, but the Jack “Clique” is the one who carries fire around it, runs through the jungle, etc.. (anyone notice that the fuse was still good after a those many years?) and nothing. Hurley says to him, “It's all in your mind, Dude.” Dismissing his complaints of things like who fishes for whom and who gets what.

I'm certain there are those on the staff who laugh at our attempts to make sense of a senseless show. Bizarre circumstances (being a Sci-Fi fan) are common-place for me. Nano-bots would easily explain the survival of so many. If Nano-bots were the cause for the crash. But the writers don't seem to be concerned and they don't realize that if they leave the questions out there too long... people like you and me will stop watching.

I watch for how the characters deal with the bizarre situation. Ana and Her crew are more believable to me than Jack’s Group, but I'm not writing the show.

The Exec Producer of Lost said the number will never be answered... that is the worst thing I've heard anyone say for the “direction” of the show. Let's all hope they pull their heads out.

In other words, she's a shoot (or imprison) first and ask questions later (if ever) kind of person. Where was he for two hours... even if I have to really go, it shouldn't take two hours. Two people on the plane didn't remember him. A flight attendant who sees everybody, and a person who seems to have excellent observation skills. He may not have been on the plane. We don't know. He may have been working with the "others" to save his own skin. When Ana asks him where he was, 2 hours is too long to even do #2 (even if you have stomach problems). Maybe that's why Goodwin says he's not a very nice person. On the plane he was "in the bathroom" for two hours too.

I loved this episode. The reveal of Goodwin, what happened to Ethan, the two groups meeting in a violent act - it was a great story. Made me love the character of Eko even more - which I thought was impossible!

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this episode SUCKED!!!!! We got nothing!!!!

Shanzy288...How can you say we got Nothing? We learned what had been happening to the 'Tallies" since they crashed.

I did like this episode, I think it was a great plot addition to the show, however,..... at the time I was really really hoping to see some of our familiar losties that we hadnt seen much of since season 1.