Which leads us to believe the majority of the original losties are 'bad'?

Locke, Michael, Jin, SUN???

Or maybe ethan was just falling behind in his chores...

Or maybe Ethan was nipped in the bud. The tailies killed 4 at least, the real lostaways that we know and love killed 1, so they're down 5 members.

What's considered Good? Tender meat? Potential for psychic abilities. Ability to turn into an other?

Coincidence? I think not. I find is odd that they were talking about taking GOOD people and his name was Goodwin. Also he said "Kids are fine" Meaning innocent. He also said "Maybe they aren’t attacking us."
--Katie--
What do you guys think?

Good probably means clean---as in their conscience is clear.

Children were taken--they are naturally innocent.


None of the regular lostaways were taken because they've all got something wrong on their minds.

Maybe by good they mean the people who don't have a haunting past, or something that they have done wrong in the past.

Maybe by good they mean the people who don't have a haunting past, or something that they have done wrong in the past.

Yes, that's exactly what I think. I think that maybe once those people are "redeemed" or learn to accept their pasts, maybe they'll be considered "good" and will be considered for kidnapping. I guess no one from the original lostaways has completely become good yet.

Which leads us to believe the majority of the original losties are 'bad'?

Locke, Michael, Jin, SUN???

Or maybe ethan was just falling behind in his chores...

Or maybe Lostzilla is protecting the Lostaways.

mmm so are these others part of some utopian world gone hypocrite? they take the good people for their own, and just happen to kill whoever they have to in the process?

mmm so are these others part of some utopian world gone hypocrite? they take the good people for their own, and just happen to kill whoever they have to in the process?

In order to create you have to destroy.

But they tried to take Eko...I have a feeling there is something haunting Mr. Eko.


I love this theory though.

I think each group is part of an unrelated experiment. Perhaps the Tail-enders are part of the eugenics experiment?

But they tried to take Eko...I have a feeling there is something haunting Mr. Eko.


I love this theory though.


But Ecko became bad when he killed two Others.

good catch about the "maybe they aren't attacking us." i didn't catch it when he said it in the episode. maybe they are trying to get the good to help come against the "evil" from the computer in the hatch. i really have no idea.

Which makes us go back to did they want Claire or her baby..or both?

And Sun is not 'good'?

This makes me think of the BF Skinner Walden Two experiment gone really really really bad.

i think the others didn't take more of the other castaways because they were all trying to run away from something in their past. they all had something they regretted...remember when sun asked if they were all being punished for something? it's because they have all done something they were holding on to and the others probably can't use people who are still hung up on those things...because they are not "good".

Which makes us go back to did they want Claire or her baby..or both?

And Sun is not 'good'?

This makes me think of the BF Skinner Walden Two experiment gone really really really bad.


They wanted the baby and Danielle got her out.

i was wondering the same thing...why did Ethan try to take Claire? Could you possibly use the excuse that because she was pregnant that made her more clean, good or innocent?

The psychic Claire visited told her the baby must not be raised by another, that the baby must have her GOODNESS in its upbringing. The psychic implied that Claire was a wholly good person. So that leads me to believe Claire could be considered 'good.'

But what about Rose? Is her real world job killing puppies?

i was wondering the same thing...why did Ethan try to take Claire? Could you possibly use the excuse that because she was pregnant that made her more clean, good or innocent?

The baby was the clean one.

maybe "good" means easier to assimilate those taken into one of the "others"?

But they tried to take Eko...I have a feeling there is something haunting Mr. Eko.
I love this theory though.
Did they try to take Eko or was he trying to stop them for taking someone else?

There is still a whole lot we don't know about Ethan, or his relation to the other Others. Remember, Ethan was the only Other that the mid-section people ever saw.

On a related note, did you notice that the spot where Ana Lucia, et al, were when she shot Shannon is the same place that Ethan beat up Jack just before he hung Charlie?

I don't know about this whole "good" theory. Maybe Goodwin was lying. But for the sake of contemplating, I'll assume he is telling the truth. But what does "good" mean to the Others? Afterall, I wouldn't say Goodwin killing Nathan is a "good" thing to do...even if Nathan was "bad". Also it isn't a "good" thing that Goodwin was just about to kill Ana for figuring him out. Vigilante Justice isn't considered a "good" thing, but it can be to some, so is that what they are practicing? And how could the others know who is a good person or a bad person if they did not know of these people before the crash. I smell a conspiracy...or maybe the newest form of prison.

Did they try to take Eko or was he trying to stop them for taking someone else?


They tried to take him but he put up a fight.

I took it to mean good... as in good for whatever it is they're needed for.. good for their cause.. not good/bad like pure/evil... more like good as in a good fit for their needs..

The Others have to be connected to Dharma's plans for a utopian society. And Hanso must still be out in the world, directing planes and boats full of potential recruits to the island. They may be like a religious cult that believes God will choose who survives, and from among the survivors, they'll take those whose dossiers tell them that they are "good." The Others don't hesitate to kill the ones they reject, but only if they get in the way of their harvesting the ones they want. It's like the Purgatory theory made literal. The Goodwins and Ethans take the deserving off to Dharma heaven, and leave those neither damned not chosen to fend for themselves for the most part.

Cardie

Funny note, told my mom what Goodwin said about them being "good" and the first thing she said was " what, like to eat?!?" too funny.

Didn't they try to take Ana Lucia? And you can't tell me she doesn't have a haunted past.

Coincidence? I think not. I find is odd that they were talking about taking GOOD people and his name was Goodwin. Also he said "Kids are fine" Meaning innocent. He also said "Maybe they aren’t attacking us."

How would the others know enough about these people's pasts to determine who is "good"? Especially since they took some on the very first night.

I'm pretty sure everyone on that flight was carefully researched by the Hanso Foundation, which got the info to Goodwin and Ethan. Goodwin later made a list of whom they should take, with descriptions, and gave it to the Others. The first attack may have been fairly random, to disguise the fact that they were being researched for the really important abductions.

Cardie

But why did Ethan and Goodwin have regular clothes and shoes. The "others" do not. Are they seperate groups? Perhaps the clothed ones run the project and the barefoot ones are the infected or experiments?

I thought Goodwin meant "good" as in "good for our purposes" and not necessarily that they were good people morally. Even Goodwin would have had a hard time knowing whether or not the first three that were taken were "good". He did say that they were a threat though so he could have been telling the truth there. It seems like he told Ana-Lucia the truth while they were on their walk alone. He just didn't tell the whole truth.

Plus, the "Others" werent really "killing" anyone until Goodwin killed Nathan (and maybe that was for a good reason, who knows? He could have been an Ethan character and we dont really know that he was an "Other"). Goodwin simply said he was a bad person.

Before that, and ignoring Ethan, have the Others really killed anyone or harmed them severely? We see them knock people around and carry them off. But thats it.

But why should we trust what Goodwin said to Ana Lucia?

Maybe the entire "Black and White" plot point comes into play here. Maybe the Others are trying to increase their ranks by kidnapping people they believe to be vital or assimilatable to their cause. Possibley they are fighting another group of others and they need the "good" (white) to combat the "bad" (black)

I think he means "good" as in suitable. I don't think it has to be a personality trait thing. It has to be a little more in depth than that. At least I think it is.

Good probably means clean---as in their conscience is clear.

Children were taken--they are naturally innocent.


None of the regular lostaways were taken because they've all got something wrong on their minds.
I'd agree that this is a stronger possibility, but I'd also note: the mid-section survivors were far, far, FAR better off than the tail section survivors. They had 1.) greater numbers, 2.) guns, 3.) knives, 4.) medicines, 5.) food and drink... the list goes on. The tail section survivors were a MUCH more vulnerable group that the mid-section. In other words, perhaps the Others didn't go after the mid-section survivors because they thought they would be a tougher match. Sure, most of this wasn't known to anyone that first night, but it would have been discovered pretty fast.

And this of course assumes that Ethan's group was the same as Goodwin's....

Also, let's not forget that the tail-section survivors never encountered the security system. On the mid-section survivor's first night out, they did. I'll go out on speculative limbs and say perhaps Ethan had inflitrated the camp, but couldn't connect with his people to do the raid because the security system showed up. Perhaps, the people who are The Others... or at least "Ethan's People" were put off by the security system's presence... that is, these two forces are in opposition to each other, and, however terrifying the security system is to the mid-sectioners, it actually saved them that first night.

What poped into my head when he said they were good and the children were fine is that the controlers of the experiment wanted to remove to safety all those not nessecary to that group. There is a clue, I think in Goodwins' objection ' we're not savages yet'. (someone corrrect me if that quote isn't right.) Maybe the point of kidnapping Clair was so that she could safely have the child in a medical facility and then return her and child to the experiment. Jacks group is a controle group? Think I'll hold further thoughts for more clues.

They wanted the baby and Danielle got her out.
But I thought that the Others wanted Walt, not the baby.

I think it might be significant that Goodwin chose to use the phrase "wasn't good" rather than "bad". The two can mean the same thing, but also very different things.

I think he was just playing with her head, trying to make her take pause and think, "What? I'm not good? What are you trying to say about me?" Mind games. That's all it was. Something to distract her from focusing her attention on HIM, putting on herself instead.

Obviously Goodwin was not truthful or trustworthy. I don't understand why people are putting so much weight into his words.

i think it is important that we know everyone has a past. It seems everyone has to get over something and who has so far? Well, Shannon andBoone. Boone finally helped or became a leader by going to the airplane and the island took him. Shannon finally got past her life long doom of no one believing in her because Sayid did. Perhaps when you overcome your past you become free. The others took the ones without problems and once the rest overcome they die or get kidnapped.

I think this is what the island is all about: bringing these speciifc people to a place to fix their problems, like a huge psych ward. But they must make it real as possible so they go to great lengths with extras.

Coincidence? I think not. I find is odd that they were talking about taking GOOD people and his name was Goodwin. Also he said "Kids are fine" Meaning innocent. He also said "Maybe they aren’t attacking us."

i know what you're saying, as in reading into it, but didn't he say "the kids ARE fine." as in, she directly asked if they were okay and he said yes.

Didn't they try to take Ana Lucia? And you can't tell me she doesn't have a haunted past.

No they didn't try to take her. Ana tackled one of them, wrestled wither her, then killed her with a rock.

Incidently, did this 'Others' hoodie remind anyone else of Charlie? I thought it was his evil twin til they said it was a she!

Haven't read any other threads yet and don't want to start a new one, but does anyone else think Ana killed Alex, Danielle's daughter? The girl with the list was fairly young and was entrusted with the list.

i think it is important that we know everyone has a past. It seems everyone has to get over something and who has so far? Well, Shannon andBoone. Boone finally helped or became a leader by going to the airplane and the island took him. Shannon finally got past her life long doom of no one believing in her because Sayid did. Perhaps when you overcome your past you become free. The others took the ones without problems and once the rest overcome they die or get kidnapped.

I think this is what the island is all about: bringing these speciifc people to a place to fix their problems, like a huge psych ward. But they must make it real as possible so they go to great lengths with extras.

Zstrata, i'm with you 100% on the whole "psych ward" deal. these people need to confront their demons on this island before they get any closure. when that happens, well, maybe you're right, they "die" ala shannon and boone? i'm not super sure about that, but maybe.

I agree that the security system protected Jack and the crew from the others. As for Claire and her baby, when they saw that her child or her were not good, they erased her memory and returned her.

'Lostzilla', huh? I had one of those once but I can't find it anymore.

the hatches say "quarantine" on the inside. maybe the "good" ones are taken inside one of the other hatches to protect them from whatever is going on on the outside requiring quarantine, and to create this utopian society. i think that's what goodwin meant when he said "maybe they aren't attacking" us. they're being saved.

Funny note, told my mom what Goodwin said about them being "good" and the first thing she said was " what, like to eat?!?" too funny. Thats what we said too here in my place. Like Kids are TENDER AND JUICY whereas Nathan was a hardened, tough beef jerky type? I feel like there have been a lot of canibalism references, not like they are a clue or anything like that, I just have noticed them. Like when sawyer said that the tailenders were gonna eat them.......I love the canibalism references, because it would just be TOOOOO much for network TV......
like gilligans island meets silence of the lambs....hahahaha
:rolleyes:

I feel there are several things going on. Yes, I feel there is some sort of wannabe-utopian-yet-actually-pretty-sinister-n-Orwellian cult-like thing going on (see my thread "Sinister Utopia?" in the theories section from a while back). That whole thing is definitely a part of the Hanso Foundation/Dharma Projects axis. But what of the US military knife found last night and all the other hints throughout season one and two of a military connection? Is the US military and possibly the militaries of other aligned countries involved in founding the Hanso/Dharma Projects, OR are there two separate things going on, plus maybe a third thing of the descendents of "The Black Rock" who are more your "scruffy others" *lol*?

It doesn't seem likely, when you really stop to have a think on it, that there could be military experimentation/research AND an independent privately funded utopian weirdness thing going on on the same small island. No, the military has got to be in on the Hanso/Dharma stuff. And, if so, one must really wonder if the "utopian" aspects of the experimentation and projects are really something that the tippy-top echelons of this thing believe in, or are they just USING that as PROPOGANDA to get idealistic people involved and also to brainwash children into the "cult"? Maybe the idealists (like perhaps Goodwin) really do believe in whatever utopian line of bull they are being fed from the top, and they have idealistic stars in their eyes about "making their own kind of music", etc., and creating a loving, perfect society, but really those at the very top (like Alvar Hanso, Locke's dad--who may be one and the same!, etc.) have no such illusions and are just USING such propoganda to rope people in as cogs in their machinery, just to move their experimentation forward? So, some of "the others" may really believe they are doing something "good", when really they are being manipulated towards very Orwellian ends.

What I want to know is this: Why didn't Echo (or Eko or whatever his name is) tell Ana and the others immediately that he and Jin SAW THE KIDS when they were looking for Michael? And why, when Libby asked "Did you see the kids?", did Ana sharply put an end to that line of questioning with one quick "Libby!"? What up wit' dat'? But I digress: My point in this thread is: Maybe some of the others really are in it for "good" idealistic reasons, but I think they are being manipulated by those at the top, for reasons that are anything but good, and are all about POWER, in the end. The involvement of those individuals like Peik and Hanso and their powerful corporations, plus the military connection, all tell me that there is something very sinister going on here. Plus, their "methods" that we have seen throughout season one and two, both on and off the island, and many of their key people reflect the cold, opposite of "good" reality of whatever is going on.

First, Sun isn't "good". Yes she is sweet, etc. BUT she married Jin, who is apparently a killer/Mafia type guy. And she knew what her Father did, and allowed Jin to join the family "business". She did not speak out. Sure you can argue her culture, her heritage, blah, blah but it comes down to personal responsibility. He was her husband, and she knew what he did. So no, Sun wasn't "good" or "pure" in that sense. However in MY world, I'd call her a good person!

P.S. When my fave, Locke, said "I have looked into the eye of the island, and what I saw was beautiful", I wonder if what he felt and intuited was way deeper than whatever sinister thing is going on, and had more to do with the nature of the island itself, which is a very beautiful, healing place once you lose the Hanso folks, and also maybe he could feel the good intentions of some of the "idealistic others" I spoke of above, those who aren't at the top echelons and maybe honestly believe in something "good" that they think they are trying to accomplish, when really/sadly, imho, they are being used and manipulated by very cold, power-hungry, even evil people.

P.P.S. Me again. In other words, maybe Goodwin really looked at what he was doing as being sort of in "the Peace Corps" (interesting and telling choice of a cover, as it hints at a military connection, yet an idealistic one bent on bettering societies and the world). But really, possibly unbeknownst to him, he is more a part of "the axis of evil", so to speak.

Or maybe Ethan was nipped in the bud. The tailies killed 4 at least, the real lostaways that we know and love killed 1, so they're down 5 members.

Or maybe they took the good ones from the tail-end survivors, and the bad ones from the front-end survivors... :) And now since Goodwin and Ethan are dead, and the kidnapping work wasn't completed, we'll never know who is good and who is bad... :biggrin:

It was said that they attempted to take the strongest tailie men the first time. You can view them as a type of tribe. Needing strong, young and fertile people. That makes the most sense, especially since we now know that they are not gentically-altered or "sick" this makes a LOT of sense when you compare it next to the fact that they wanted the pregnant woman and the young boy and they also took young Alex so many years ago. They are just trying to keep their tribe strong for years to come.

I think the "good" ones that were taken are the impressionable ones; the ones that can be easily brought into the fold without discussion; those that follow and don't lead.

I think that by "good" they mean genetically good, Goodwin said that they took the atheletes first and that the children were "fine". If genetic experiments are going on they would want the best specimens to experiment on. So maybe there purpose was two fold, get the strongest first for testing and to remove the people who could provide the best protection. Get the children next because they would be easier to brainwash. lastly kill the rest, those who were genetically inferior and those who were too strong to take(Eko and Ana) or who couldnt be brainwashed (libby and Bernard), I kinda feel like the stewardess may be in on it.

I also think the security system is protecting the mid section people, and possibly Dannieelle too. We first see that monster at night, on the first night. same time as the Others are kidnapping the taillies. Does anyone know if the monster appears at the same time more taillies were kidnapped?

Good point.

I think Goodwin meant good "test subjects".

maybe "good" means easier to assimilate those taken into one of the "others"?
maybe "good" means that they are tasty. perhaps they make tasty island treats.

Coincidence? I think not. I find is odd that they were talking about taking GOOD people and his name was Goodwin. Also he said "Kids are fine" Meaning innocent. He also said "Maybe they aren’t attacking us."
--Katie--
What do you guys think?
I agree that Goodwin is a play on words, given everything he was saying about Nathan not being good (why he wasn't on the list), the children being better off and that maybe they (the others) weren't attacking. Posted a similar thread in the General Theories section.

as for the former presence of the military, perhaps the army was brought in to end or put down an out of control experiment. Perhaps the evil island doctors were killed by their own experiements but not before an SOS was sent. and then perhaps a military team was sent to investigage and also disappeared....i still hold that this whole island is a half dozen scientific experiments that have gone very awry and are completely without any supervision or control (i.e. the scientists are dead, hostaged, or have fallen under the influence of the experiment)...

It was said that they attempted to take the strongest tailie men the first time. You can view them as a type of tribe. Needing strong, young and fertile people. That makes the most sense, especially since we now know that they are not gentically-altered or "sick" this makes a LOT of sense when you compare it next to the fact that they wanted the pregnant woman and the young boy and they also took young Alex so many years ago. They are just trying to keep their tribe strong for years to come.

Actually, Goodwin said they took the strong ones first because they were a threat. And then AL said, why didn't they take you?

So they took the strong first to get them out of the way, then they had a list of the next nine, which included the kids, and some other ones, the good ones. Those were the ones they really wanted, but they had to get the strong ones first so they could come back for the ones they really wanted.

Yea the stronest people were taken out the first night so that they wouldn't have problems dealing with taking the rest of the camp. They faced Ecko and he demolished them. Obviously they have already brainwashed the children since the teddy bear showed up on the beach and during the episode a few weeks ago. They might be turning them into superhuman type specimens from an early age. I have a feeling alot of the experiments won't be revealed for a while.

I like the theory that the defense system protected the survivors. But at the same time you have to think this whole crash was pre planned as well. Goodwin knew where they were because he came out 10 minutes after. So they probably knew where both pieces would end up on the island. The interest thing is there is no real threat in the jungle where the tailes were(besides the beach). Ana was originally meant to think that the others found them but then shes realizes it was Goodwin killing nathan. Theres no monsters, no sounds, no black smoke. So it would probably be safe to say where the front of the plane is, is a much more dangerous and inhabited place. Another thing to note. Besides Ethan we haven't seen an Other on the front plane side of the island, the others came from the boat. I think its no coincidence Ethan and Goodwin both showed up at the same time when the planes crashed. But the fact that Ethan wasn't organized or had backup is very puzzling. Ethan went for the wrong child as well with Claires baby. Where as Goodwins group was very calculating. Ethan was also much stronger then Goodwin. I dunno I'm starting to ramble now. Let me know what you think!

Ana killed Alex, Danielle's daughter
This thought crossed my mind too.

I also like the Rescuing vrs. Attacking theory. It's something I never thought about until reading this thread. That's not to say that the term Rescuing to the Others might stray a bit from the Webster's Definition. MANY cults theorize they are "rescuing" people.

As for the "defense system," I thought for sure that Danielle referred to it not as a DEFENSE system, but as a SECURITY system. Not a huge discrepancy, however I get the feeling that the security system was meant to keep folks OUT of an area. As in - "Hey, you folks on the beach... STAY on the beach, don't come in here!"

Nathan wasnt 'good' because he rebeled against authority.

He disobeyed the bathroom rule of two.
and he disobeyed AC's camp location ("im staying here").

He wasnt the type of person who would sit in a bunker typing in numbers every 108 minutes...

...Obviously they have already brainwashed the children since the teddy bear showed up on the beach and during the episode a few weeks ago. ...Let me know what you think!
Not necessarily. They could be drugging the children into submission.* Remember that Claire cannot remember much except for a flash here and there about the time period during which she was missing. I think they drugged her so that she would not remember. Well, if they are capable of that, maybe they are capable of drugging their new captives so that they will be docile and follow whatever they tell them to do.

I certainly think it is probable, though, that you are right and that some sort of brainwashing has commenced, too. A third possibility is that the children are neither drugged or brainwashed, but are simply doing what many people who are kidnapped do, and that is to do just what they are told to do out of fear and then, later, maybe out of a sort of "Stockholm Syndrome".

I hope the two children from the tail section are indeed still alive and it isn't just that they took the teddy bear of the little boy and gave it to one of their own "other" children. Seems more likely to me that the brother and sister from the tail sectiion are alive...but one can never assume anything with LOST *lol*!!!

* Of course, it could be argued that drugging the kids IS, in itself, a form of brainwashing, and I would agree with that.

Nathan wasnt 'good' because he rebeled against authority.

He disobeyed the bathroom rule of two.
and he disobeyed AC's camp location ("im staying here").

He wasnt the type of person who would sit in a bunker typing in numbers every 108 minutes...

right, he wouldnt have been easy to brainwash. Ana, Lilly, Eko wouldnt be either, I didnt get a real good impression of Bernard, but Rose is very level headed so I image that Bernard would be too. i think Good has two meanings, one good genetics, and two easily manipulated, ie kids or people with weak minds. In all Good means good for their experiments. IMO

"the children being better off" may mean that they were 'removed' from the experiment

and (the others) weren't attacking, they were removing things from the experiment they coudnt control

"the children being better off" may mean that they were 'removed' from the experiment

and (the others) weren't attacking, they were removing things from the experiment they coudnt control

None of the regular lostaways were taken because they've all got something wrong on their minds.
Charly and Claire (and her baby inside her) were taken by Ethan, assuming he was one of the Others. Does that make them "good"?

Only GOOD people are taken...

Any one who is still single in their 30's can tell you...

"All of the good ones are taken."

Goodwin - The GOOD win. The BAD Loose

I personally have never heard of a first or last name Goodwin, so I am assuming it could be a meaning into how the others are named?

He used that he was a part of the Peace Corp. Ok that is one of the most heart warming organizations in the world and he says he is a part of it.

But, reguardless of what side your on (Good or Bad) you always think that your team is the good team....So to us the Others and Goodwin and Ethan are bad, but to them they are good people doing something they beleive in?

Maybe the Fusalage survivors are not good nor evil, that they are in between the two and neutral and is why the Others have left them alone?

Not necessarily. They could be drugging the children into submission.* Remember that Claire cannot remember much except for a flash here and there about the time period during which she was missing. I think they drugged her so that she would not remember. Well, if they are capable of that, maybe they are capable of drugging their new captives so that they will be docile and follow whatever they tell them to do.

I certainly think it is probable, though, that you are right and that some sort of brainwashing has commenced, too. A third possibility is that the children are neither drugged or brainwashed, but are simply doing what many people who are kidnapped do, and that is to do just what they are told to do out of fear and then, later, maybe out of a sort of "Stockholm Syndrome".

I hope the two children from the tail section are indeed still alive and it isn't just that they took the teddy bear of the little boy and gave it to one of their own "other" children. Seems more likely to me that the brother and sister from the tail sectiion are alive...but one can never assume anything with LOST *lol*!!!

* Of course, it could be argued that drugging the kids IS, in itself, a form of brainwashing, and I would agree with that.

maybe you misread what I said. The boy and girl are definetly the kids Jin and Ecko saw. Because the teddy bear is obviously a reference since they showed it in the last episode. I just wonder if they brainwashed, drugged, whatever into being ok with where they are now, and never remembering the past. Claire couldn't remember anything.

the hatches say "quarantine" on the inside. maybe the "good" ones are taken inside one of the other hatches to protect them from whatever is going on on the outside requiring quarantine, and to create this utopian society. i think that's what goodwin meant when he said "maybe they aren't attacking" us. they're being saved.

I totally like this idea. Maybe they are being saved! It's possible that's why locke isn't afraid of the others. When everyone else was running, he was ready to be taken by them....he was also the one who was ready to open the hatch while everyone else was still hesitant.

Not drugged so as not to bring potential harm to the baby. But, they could have used hypnosis.

Another thought on "good" meaning (with the children) their brains have not been subjected to any form of eduction, ie ----------not contaminated-----------therefore they would be kept in quarantine. As for Mr. Eko I still hold to the theory that he is a religious/spiritual man and so, up until he had killed (and BTW he killed two singlehandedly) he in a sense was not contaminated.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the Others the Eko and Jin saw were not children. All we see is their legs and a possession of theirs, which we knew the Others had taken. The children are not being turned into "Others". This has not been shown at all, and the only reason people think so is because a pair of legs look young..haha. We only have young legs (the first Other that died was fairly young), and a Teddy bear (that was stolen with the children).

I dont think those people we saw w/ Jin and Eko were kids. They were young, but they weren't little kids.

I did notice one thing: the tailies never encountered the Monster, that we saw. Is it possible that the reason the original survivors haven't had much contact with the Others is because they are deep in Monster territory?

...The boy and girl are definetly the kids Jin and Ecko saw. Because the teddy bear is obviously a reference since they showed it in the last episode...
I agree that there is, like, a 99.99% chance that the kids Jin and Eko (or however you spell his name *lol*) saw were the brother and sister from the tail section. However, there is a chance that those two were killed (not likely, I agree with you that they are the two that were seen) or taken somewhere, and that the teddy bear was given to a different child whom the others already had with them, and this could have been the child we saw. On that point I was just saying that we can't assume anything, not when it comes to this show, however, that said, I totally agree that chances are excellent that the child Eko and Jin saw when they were looking for Michael was, in fact, the little boy from the "tailie" group".

As for your brainwashing theory, I wasn't disagreeing there, either, just arguing that brainwashing of the kids isn't an "obvious" given, as you said in your first post, as there is also a chance they haven't been brainwashed. I'm just saying that we can't assume anything when it comes to "LOST Island" *lol*. In the immortal words of Sayid: "I know where north should be."

Peace out.

Which makes us go back to did they want Claire or her baby..or both?

And Sun is not 'good'?.Maybe she's a devil in the bedroom :rolleyes: .

Rather than having an innate sense of who's "good", maybe the Others are simply going by first impressions,

if only good people taken, why blow upthe raft, shoot sawyer

I say good for what - not that they "are" good - but that they are good for...

The others are pretty violent for wanting only good people. Maybe they're more cooperative.

I'm enjoying this thread. One thing I will mention is that while everyone seems afraid of The Others, there is really no indication that The Others have done harm to anyone that they've *taken*. Which leads me to speculate that The Others are not there to abduct and hurt people but to rescue them.

I feel like we've been conditioned to fear and distrust The Others, but maybe they are actually the good guys here...

But they hang people..break people's necks..throw bombs on rafts and leave people to drown..shoot people..

Yeah..real good guys.

I know. There might be more than one group of others. Personally I'm not sold on that idea.

I got a sense from the whole series especially with Walt - good means good candiates for esp. Everything you read about the subject says kids are far more superior test subjects for studies because they have not been taught is impossible or nonsense to be able to have esp.

But they hang people..break people's necks..throw bombs on rafts and leave people to drown..shoot people..

Yeah..real good guys.

All I'm saying is we don't know their agenda. Maybe in the big scheme of things they *are* the good guys. I repeat, there is no evidence they are harming the people they are taking. For all we know, they are protecting them from something. Maybe the ones they are not taking are sick. Or prone to violence. Don't forget, Eko used a rock to bust the skulls of two of them, and Ana Lucia killed another one of them.

I agree that there are 2 groups of others. I think Nathan and Ethan were a part of one and Goodwin was part of another.

Maybe they are "good", but it depends on how you define "good". If they mean like being a good person then why didn't they take Rose? She's a good person.

Goodwin told Ana that they took the stronest first. So why haven't they done the same thing for the other survivors. So far teh only ones that have been taken are Walt and Claire. Wouldn't they take Locke, the hunter, before they took the pregnant chick? That was a different group, Ethan's group that wanted her. Maybe they wanted Walt too.

So, could it be that Nathan was in Ethan's group of others? And that group is the one that harms people? Maybe Goodwin's group protects those who are "good". Maybe the monster isn't protecting the island so much as protecting the survivors from the "bad" others.

They may not be harming the people they are taking..but that still does not make them 'good guys'. There were plenty of slave owners who did not beat their slaves..but I wouldn't call them 'good guys' either. I know that is an extreme example but that is the line of thought I'm going with.

If they were truly 'good guys' they would have meet the survivors and explained what the deal was instead of snatching people away in the night and nearly hanging people and actually 'killing' people to further their agenda.

And I am still not sold that there are more than one group of others. There might be separate tribes within the community but I believe they are all somehow tied together under one banner so to speak.

What about being reproductively able? They left behind Mr.Ecko because they could not take him, Bernard is past reproductive age. Maybe Ana Lucia, Libby and Cindy cannot bear children,for some reason or another.
As for our losties, the others couldn't get them because they are, maybe, protected by the security system. Remember the first night,when the "monster" was heard ?

As for our losties, the others couldn't get them because they are, maybe, protected by the security system. Remember the first night,when the "monster" was heard ?

Interesting, but Ethan was still able to infiltrate. Or was he? I can't remember when he first appeared. I still belive like others said that they attacked the tailies first because they posed the most threat and also possibly because they had more children.

He could have 'tripped' the security system but somehow managed to get past it.

But they hang people..break people's necks..throw bombs on rafts and leave people to drown..shoot people..

Yeah..real good guys.

I know. There might be more than one group of others. Personally I'm not sold on that idea. :)

Since we don't know what the Others' intent is we can't really determine this yet. It could be something as simple as the Others believing they are doing good, when they are actaully doing harm. In a way it could be like how Locke was being all shady for the greater good last season. Goodwin could possibly have thought he was helping in a Peace Corps sort of way, even if he wasn't.

They could believe that the end justifies the means. Getting the "good" people away from the other people is the major objective. If Sawyer, Jin, and Michael got in the way then they were expendable because they weren't good for the cause.

Of course we are talking about LOST here and it is never that simple :rolleyes:

Everyone has their own standards for good, what good means to some is bad to others. For example, Hitler thought he was doing a good thing, so did his Nazi followers, but the majority of people think it was a bad thing.

Well Nathan did seem like a bad guy. He certainly didnt ooze innocence. Goodwin had the time to work that part out...but I for one believe what Goodwin was saying. I believe the initial ones that were taken were strategic as it took Goodwin 2 weeks of living amongst them to compile a list of specific Tailies to abduct.
Looking at what we have left in the camp, Im curious to see what dark backgrounds they have...especially Bernard and possibly Rose. Also looking at the fact the children were taken and children are innocent and playing a fairly significant role...I just dont see past what the story is suggesting that only 'Good' ones are being abducted.

Everyone has their own standards for good, what good means to some is bad to others. For example, Hitler thought he was doing a good thing, so did his Nazi followers, but the majority of people think it was a bad thing.

I for one don't buy into that. If something is hurting people..I don't care for what reason its bad.

Now I can understand someone being raised in that situation and not being taught anything else and not knowing any better..but then why are there people raised in such situations who seem to still KNOW its bad and try to stop it. The White Rose society in NAZI Germany for instance..made up of YOUNG people who knew it was wrong. White southeners who grew up with the system but who KNEW nothing but slavery (and later segregation)-but still knew it was wrong and did all that could to stamp it out.

I can understand if the 'others' were raised that way..or programmed that way or have been convinced that another group is 'bad' and know nothing else but somewhere someone, the person who started it all..was just wrong.

I like this.

I believe the children were taken because they are "good" and meet the requirements of their society or tribe of remaining experiment survivors.

I think that Ethan and Goodwin are related, but not from the same Others tribe.

I think Lostzilla kept the Goodwin-Others from our survivors, but the Tailies landed outside of its protective range. I also believe that Locke, Kate and Jack "broke" it when they threw the dynamite down the hole.

This leads me to a question ... why was Cindy taken when she was and who took her? With the Lostzilla out of commision, will we start to see more survivors start ot go missing?

i still don't understand why people think Lostzilla is protecting the losties. It ATE the pilot!! Ate him! And if it was so protective, then why did Ethan make it into the Losties camp to begin with? He almost killed Charlie...and did god knows what with Claire. This does not seem like a very protective being.

It would be one thing if it just took the pilot down some hole...ok, then I could see maybe it was taking him to protect him. But there was blood and gore all over the place. I guess we could later discover the pilot himself was a threat, but then that begs the question of why Ethan was not eaten also.

Dannielle called it a security system, but she also said she had never seen the Others. So i definately think the monster is protecting the losties form the Others. How Ethan got through, i dont know, but it explains why he didnt have back up.

How do you think they are making these "good people" decisions? Did they have prior knowledge,or are they basing it on what they see on the island? If so, why didnt they think Ana was good, as she brought the girl back to life & helped with the other survivors? Makes me think they "knew" some things about the tailies before hand

I don't think the system is 'protecting' the Losties. I think that it is protecting that part of the island and the losties just happened to have landed up inside its perimeter.

When Jack and all went to the cockpit they may have well wandered outside that perimeter. It is more than likely possible to trip it and yet manage to get past it...as the group did on the way to the Black Rock.

Remember on the first night for the main group..the security system was tripped. Someone had to trip it...I'm betting it was Ethan.

Dannielle called it a security system, but she also said she had never seen the Others. So i definately think the monster is protecting the losties form the Others. How Ethan got through, i dont know, but it explains why he didnt have back up.


A lot of things could explain why he didn't have back up. First being, maybe he was cast out of the group and was trying to do something to prove that he belonged. Secong being, maybe in fact, the others only wanted one person from the losties camp (obviously that being Claire). Third being, maybe any alleged experiment going on with the losties requires them all to be there. Who knows. I just really don't think people can assume that anything Danielle says is accurate. She may not have seen the 'security system,' but the others still managed to come in and take her child!! If the security system was protecting her and that area, how did that manage to happen?

I don't think the system is 'protecting' the Losties. I think that it is protecting that part of the island and the losties just happened to have landed up inside its perimeter.

When Jack and all went to the cockpit they may have well wandered outside that perimeter. It is more than likely possible to trip it and yet manage to get past it...as the group did on the way to the Black Rock.

Remember on the first night for the main group..the security system was tripped. Someone had to trip it...I'm betting it was Ethan.

ooo now this i can buy. someone crosses the boundary into some 'area' and the security system is tripped.

Perhaps the "good ones" means those who are readily conformed to the beliefs of the "others". Children, mentally weak (physical strength has no bearing on mental strength) and they are selected that way. GOOD people could mean any number of things.

To a drug addict, a "GOOD" person would be someone easily recruited into the drug world. However to a normal person, that would not be a "good person".

I think the Others believe that what they are doing will determine the fate of the world. Desmond was told that pushing the button was "saving the world". Goodwin said he was in the Peace Corps which I think was just a way of alluding to how he saw what he and the others were doing.

In the graphic novel masterpiece "Watchmen" (just named one of the top 100 novels of the 20th century), upon which the creative team has stated they have taken inspiration from, someone that is one of the good guys (a superhero), actually stages a horrific disaster with millions of casualties in order to shock the world into uniting against this threat, which he hopes will move the world away from the brink of nuclear holocaust. And it works.

Millions were sacrificed in order to save billions.


Not that it's in any way justified in real life, but in literary realms, this sort of "doing good at any cost" mentality is not uncommon.

So I think it's going to be revealed that what Goodwin and the Others were doing was accomplishing their goal at any cost. If uninvolved people need to be killed in order for their agenda to be completed, then that's the unfortunate side effect. I think they will even sacrifice themselves for the sake of this cause.

I predict it will turn out to be more like a cult than a science experiment. A science experiment that went horribly wrong, and the leaders are crazy and have brainwashed all those under them to believe as they believe.

A lot of the discussion here gets back to the ancient argument of: do the ends justify the means? Personally, I think the answer to that age-old question is a "situational ethics" one of "it depends", but I won't bore you with a whole thesis/sermon there. I'll just fast forward ahead to say that, it is quite possible that "the others", at least the lower level ones (not the top dogs like Peik, Alvar Hanso, et al., in my opinion) really believe what they are doing is very good and that they are totally idealistic, however, even if they not only think what they are doing is for the best and that, for example, the children "are better off", as Goodwin said, but they also even think they are "saving the world", even if all of that is true, I question how they can justify some of their methods, their means, if they truly are so idealistic and motivated by good. Sometimes they employ means that seem unnecessarily violent to accomplish their goals. Prime example: Ethan threatened to kill all the Lostaways and then Charlie last if Charlie didn't stop following him. Charlie didn't stop, and next thing you know, he was HUNG! Left to die. Now, Ethan could have simply tied Charlie to a tree and continued on his merry (or not so merry, in his case, geez, I don't think a sense of humor was Ethan's biggest attribute) way, achieving the same "ends" without employing such violent "means".

So, in a nutshell: I, for one, don't know WHAT to think *lol*! That leaves me, once again, perched happily on the edge of my seat for the next episode.

i still don't understand why people think Lostzilla is protecting the losties. It ATE the pilot!! Ate him! And if it was so protective, then why did Ethan make it into the Losties camp to begin with? He almost killed Charlie...and did god knows what with Claire. This does not seem like a very protective being.

It would be one thing if it just took the pilot down some hole...ok, then I could see maybe it was taking him to protect him. But there was blood and gore all over the place. I guess we could later discover the pilot himself was a threat, but then that begs the question of why Ethan was not eaten also.Lostzilla did not "eat" the pilot. There is a body up in the tree, bloody and all but mostly intact. The pilot was pulled out of the plane, there is what looks like his body up in a tree.

I'm going to spew my thoughts out into this little type box regarding the others (asuming Ethan, the boat people, those Jin and Eko saw in the jungle and Nathan are "others"). Here comes the rambling.....

What do we know about the others?
- They take people for some unknown reason.
- They don't mind killing anyone who gets in their way.
- They apparently have acess to a boat, fuel and other boat related things.
- They have acess to guns.
- They seem to be "normal" humans.
- They move silently and don't leave tracks.
- They speak English.
- Fond of children
- 5 have been killed


A few questions that bother me and possible half arsed answers.

Q: Why didn't the others just trick the the survivors directly after the crash into coming with them to where ever they take those they want? They could do this by saying there is shelter or a base inland for example.
A: Maybe they didn't know the plane was going to crash. Maybe they aren't all operating on the same motives on the same agenda. If they didn't know the plane was going to crash or know anything of the peple on the plane they would have to observe the group until they decided on those who they wanted, but since they came on the first night for the tail section group this discounts this notion. Maybe they don't work as one united group.

Q: Why do the others use violence to come and take those they want?
A: Through desperation maybe? It would make sense that if they needed "good" people enough they wouldn't care about anyone who got in the way. This is the only thing a can come up with for this.

Q: How many others are there?
A: Assuming that they are all working for the same cause and operate as one group, there aren't enough of them to storm in and over power the tail section group. We've seen them work individually and seen them traveling in a group and we atleast know there are 5 less. There could be small groups of them dotted around the island, there could be one base camp for them, i'm guessing there is a base camp since they are taking people and it would make sense for them to be taken somehwre instead of just wandering around the jungle with them.

Penny for your thoughts on these questions?
- Do they work as one gorup with one goal?
- How many are there?
- Are they normal humans?
- Why do they kill so readily?
- Did they know the plane was going to crash.

I just re-watched the epi with my sons and did anyone else notice the whisper\scream\weird noise when the "others" came back the second time. Sorry I cn't post audio but if you re-watch it is just before the second abduction when there it focuses irectly on the little boy . About second in you can hear "something" in the background.

Could there have been whispers and they were just not as prominent as they are on the "Other" side of the island??

If anyone can find out more that would be great.