do you think so and why?

My reasons:

1) All that for a flipping silly little toy plane?!?!?! FEH!

2) because it was the episode with the least amount of Locke screen time. >:(

Gimmee my Locke!!!

Title says it all. Worst because it showed very little of the suspense and payoff that we have come to expect.

I didn't think it was horrible, but I didn't feel like enough was explained.

Charlie -- what's happened to him, and what about Claire?
Boone/Locke -- what did they find!?!?
Kate -- we finally found out what she did, but not enough. Maybe I misunderstood, but she must have committed another crime.

The best part of the episode imo was the interaction between Sayid and Shannon. The ending was nice. :)

Next week's episode looks good though.

The worst part was that they weren't reacting much to Claire. But, I thought the stuff with Kate was great and the Sayid/Shannon stuff was great. I think we're supposed to be saying "the plane, why all the hoopla about the plane?" and eventually we'll get it. I think it's pointing to something bigger. I also think that it is more evidence that the survivors were hand picked.

I don't think this was the worst episode. But if it was it can only get better then this. Just wait it going to be rocking :lol2:

think we're supposed to be saying "the plane, why all the hoopla about the plane?" and eventually we'll get it. I think it's pointing to something bigger. I also think that it is more evidence that the survivors were hand picked.

I was thinking, "hmm how ironic that she wanted a plane. I definitely think it's something bigger.

i actually LOVED this episode! We needed these little fun moments between the characters. i.e.- sawyer&kate, Shannon&sayid. and OF COURSE this is not the end of the little plane, this is merely just a taste of what is to come. They're not going to give it all away in one episode. This was a brilliant precursor to the next episodes.

I think it is a little early in the series to call it the Worst Ep ever. It certainly didn't have the Wow factor that other eps have had, and the payoff was more puzzling than revealing, but I keep thinking of this ep as more of a lead in to the next one (which from all accounts is a real whammy) and others to come.

I liked it and I don't even like Kate. I didn't like her first flashback show either.

Soo... I don't think it was the worse, and it did give us plenty of fodder for later. And as much as I hate to admit it, we're a lot more obessed with Claire than the other's on the island... this show did happen several days after the other, and while I agree that they should be out looking for her they've only known her for about 2 weeks... and besides Charlie, only a handful are really well acquainted with her I believe. And it's already been established that the lostaways are being pretty petty and not worrying about the island's larger problems.

Of course, strictly speaking if you considered this the worst episode of the series to date, it would indeed be the worst episode ever of Lost, now wouldn't it. :) Personally, I agree that, for a myriad of reasons, this was the weakest, and hence worst, episode of the series to date. It's still better than most shows ever get though... just not up to the standards this show has set for itself.

They could of made the episode a little bit more interesting since we've been going through Lost withdrawl for 3 weeks now. They must like to see us squirm or something.

Some people mentioned this on another thread and I think they're right--the writers have been forced to save some of the major pay-offs for Feb. sweeps, leaving them to deal with other issues now. They're probably using Jan. episodes to get some info out of the way so that it can come into play later. (then again, next week's ep looks GREAT).

THe one thing that really did bother me was the lack of concern over Claire, but I already yapped about that in another threat so I won't annoy everyone with it here... ;)

I feel ya on the Clare part.

at least Jack acknowledged Claire...He was pressing Sayid for info, saying Claire was still out there, and trying to make Sayid see how it was effecting Charlie the most.

It definitely wasn't one of the better episodes but I enjoyed it none the less.

There was a lot of good stuff in this eppy:

*Sawyer and Kate swimming in the pond just before they discovered the bodies. *There was a very brief moment of light-hearted fun between them when Sawyer tickled Kate underwater. *In that one moment, they seemed so carefree.
*Sawyer trying everything he could think of to get that case open! *Comic relief.
*Shannon and Sayid's interaction. *I unexpectedly enjoyed the interchange between them.
*Shannon singing the song in French. *If that was Maggie Grace singing, she has quite a nice voice.
*Rose giving Charlie the pep talk. *I enjoyed the scenes between Rose and Charlie. *She was very sensible and matter-of-fact with him, giving him some of that good, old-fashioned, down-home advice. *He needed it.
*The scene in which Kate turned the tables on her boyfriend and revealed that she had merely used him and his cronies in order to get to what was inside that safety deposit box. *And her gun-slinging wasn't half bad, either!

Yep, it's been confirmed that that was Maggie singing.

I agree with Nanse, way too premature to dub this the worse episode ever. althogh I can understand that a lot of that came from your Locke addicitonthat wasn't sufficiently fed. ;) I agree there were a lot of unanswered questions, but it still had all of the elements of humor, suspense and drama - extremely entertaining.

The writers have been excellent so far and I have a lot of faith in them. The plane will obviously lead to something far bigger than any of us can imagine. C'mon who would dig up a decomposing corpse for sentiment alone unless you HAD to for a greater unresolved purpose.

:)

Re: Worst Episode Ever

I totally agree. The only emotions I experienced during this episode were boredom and frustration. We got absolutely no answers to the huge list of questions and mysteries this series has presented us, and they even managed to add more mysteries! I was not fascinated by the toy plane - the minute I saw that thing I was completely disgusted. All I thought was "WTF are they doing and why should I care at this point?" There are now too many loose ends and questions and mysteries for me to count, and I'm really getting frustrated. How are they going to resolve any of this by seasons end? F*ck.

And on top of that, Kate and Sawyer's interactions were so stagnant and unoriginal. Nothing happened. No progress was made in their relationship. And Charlie - they have totally mishandled his character! I was willing to let go of the fact that his drug withdrawal consisted of irritability and a runny nose, but this is just unbelievable! Last episode he was traumatized beyond words, unable to even live in reality, only in his memories. And yet, they want us to believe that Rose, a character we haven't seen for months and whom Charlie barely knows, can crack his shell with a few words that basically say "suck it up"? Please!

I so, SO want to love this show, but this episode has made me start to doubt the writers know what they're doing. We are now more than half way through the season and there are still no answers. We still know absolutely NOTHING about what this island is, let alone the various subplots involving characters' past and present lives. If I don't get some answers soon, I'm gonna have to stop watching with a heavy heart, to save myself from the prolonged disappointment. :(

Strangely enough...I think I agree with the last post. I wasn't impressed. Nothing has even come CLOSE to being pushed along. Charlie's behavior was just...not him. He was way too forcibly pessemistic (i know I spelled that wrong) and the interaction between Kate and Sawyer was blah. It seemed scripted, which is actually something I've really enjoyed about this show...that it hasn't sounded scripted, but that scene did and I felt let down.

I just don't seem to like the Kate episodes...her whole mysterious thing is getting on my nerves. If I were on the island I would have to slap her and tell her to grow up. Evie is a great persona nd a great actress, but her episodes...need more. This was a stinker episode, but I prefer it over her first episode. :-\

Maybe my patience comes from having children *:D *but to me, the series is like reading a book. *Unless you've got a lot of free time, every once in a while you pick up the book, find a quiet place, and read a little, getting you further and further into the story. *You don't get the whole picture at once, and maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but I don't want to. *I'm fine with the pace; if it happened much faster, it would all be over too fast and we wouldn't get to savor it, like a good book.

I loved Rose's interaction with Charlie. *Sure, WE don't know her well, but Charlie might.....we have to remember that we haven't seen all their interactions with each other, and the comfort level between Rose and Charlie leads me to believe that they talk more than we are aware of. *I only wish they'd brought up Claire during their talk, at least just a little.

It makes me a little sad to see how they seem to be making Jack so much more boring, and bringing Kate and Sawyer together. *Jack really needed a friend, and if Kate gets caught up with that weasel Sawyer (no, I still can't bring myself to like him! *although I suppose Kate is drawn to men that want to use her for what they can get....and that makes me sad, too), then Jack will be all alone.
:'(

I hope Sayid can make Shannon feel more useful (although I don't want them to end up together! *I want Nadia to show up again!). * :-\ * She seemed to be better off when she was with him, if for no other reason than that she finally got busy with something. *But Boone just looked EVIL in that one scene, didn't he?

Maybe my patience comes from having children *:D *but to me, the series is like reading a book. *Unless you've got a lot of free time, every once in a while you pick up the book, find a quiet place, and read a little, getting you further and further into the story. *You don't get the whole picture at once, and maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but I don't want to. *I'm fine with the pace; if it happened much faster, it would all be over too fast and we wouldn't get to savor it, like a good book.


I totally agree with your analogy, this show is exactly like reading a book. Some parts are action-heavy while others make you sit back and think about things for a while. I have the feeling (or at least I'm hoping) that after seeing the next few episodes we'll come to appreciate this one more.

It makes me a little sad to see how they seem to be making Jack so much more boring, and bringing Kate and Sawyer together. *Jack really needed a friend, and if Kate gets caught up with that weasel Sawyer (no, I still can't bring myself to like him! *although I suppose Kate is drawn to men that want to use her for what they can get....and that makes me sad, too), then Jack will be all alone.
:'(


I feel bad for Jack because Kate is totally abusing his trust in her. He needs to find someone better or a new friend. If I was on that island, I'd try to become friends with him and help him.

I hope Sayid can make Shannon feel more useful (although I don't want them to end up together! *I want Nadia to show up again!). * :-\ * She seemed to be better off when she was with him, if for no other reason than that she finally got busy with something. *But Boone just looked EVIL in that one scene, didn't he?


I definitely don't want Sayid and Shannon to end up as a couple, but I'd like to see him perhaps become a role model or mentor to her. Maybe he'll believe in her and she'll help others more. I find Boone an interesting guy. He's so mean to Shannon and I hope to find out why next week.

I know though its like everyone simply forgot all about going to find Claire except Boone and Locke....maybe in the next episode perhaps?

I find Boone an interesting guy. He's so mean to Shannon and I hope to find out why next week.


Since RBA I've liked Boone more and more. I definitely like him more than Jack and Kate, and at this point even more than Sayid and Sawyer. But anyway, I think his treatment of Shannon totally makes sense. His meanness is a reaction to her meanness. I think Boone has a good heart, a compassion to help people, and a determination to do what's right - his own sister's complete lack of these qualities disgusts him.

They bicker like brother and sister, and in the beginning it was more Shannon who made Boone feel useless and inferior, but Boone took it for a while, still trying to help her out and be nice. But I think he's grown to resent her shallow self-absorption more and more, especially as he's felt more useful himself in the past few episodes.

Boone does everything he can to help with whatever crisis is happening, even when he has absolutely no skills and no idea what to do. Shannon, on the other hand, even when her help is vital (in translating French), refuses to do anything. If I were her sibling I would have more than a few harsh words for her - I'd want to slap her in the face! Boone is being kind.

I completely agree that is was the worst episode-- by a wide margin. I was left wondering if I missed an episode or something.

Having said that, I thought the bank seen was great. And I don't think Kate did all that for the plane. Rather, I think she did all that expecting to find something else in the safe deposit box, and was surprised to find the plane. *

Maybe my patience comes from having children *:D *but to me, the series is like reading a book. *Unless you've got a lot of free time, every once in a while you pick up the book, find a quiet place, and read a little, getting you further and further into the story. *You don't get the whole picture at once, and maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but I don't want to. *I'm fine with the pace; if it happened much faster, it would all be over too fast and we wouldn't get to savor it, like a good book.

Nicely put.* *;)

Nah. I have yet to be disappointed with the show. As others have already said, you have to have slow moments so that the payoffs are better. If there was action all the time, it wouldn't ever mean anything. As far as the person who wanted to know how they were going to answer all the questions by seasons' end, uh...do you really think that they will? I'm pretty sure that the last episode this season is going to be a pretty big cliffhanger

Personally, there isn't a single character on the show that I just flat out don't like. Yeah, Sawyer and Locke have been the most interesting so far. But this episode really made me more interested in Boone and Shannon (they are so not brother and sister). Interestingly enough, Kate's flashback really didn't do much for me. Oh, that's what she did? Ok, move on. But next week's episode looks hella tight.

As far as the person who wanted to know how they were going to answer all the questions by seasons' end, uh...do you really think that they will? I'm pretty sure that the last episode this season is going to be a pretty big cliffhanger


Sorry, I should clarify: Of course I don't think or want all the questions to be answered by the season finale. Of course there will be a cliff-hanger. But I do expect them to at least be addressed and that we be given substantial clues to them with each episode. And by clues, I mean bits of information that we can use to tie other bits of information together, not bits of information that are completely and utterly mysterious and unguessable, such as the toy plane. There are absolutely no implications we can garner from the fact that Kate wants this toy plane. It is simply another mystery that seemingly has no bearing on anything whatsoever. The same with the polar bear, with the power cord, the monster, alex, ethan, it goes on and on and on. These mysteries have all been completely dropped, we have learned nothing about them since we first heard of them. I have no doubt we will neither hear nor see anything of the toy plane for a long time.

All I want is progress! I want something to be figured out, instead of more and more to figure out! It's frustrating. Don't get me wrong, I like slow-burning stories - but as the season has gone on, these stories/plotlines have been completely dropped while other stories/plotlines have been added on. How in the world are they going to tie all these unanswered questions together without having a huge convoluted knot that defies believability? I had faith in them before, but I'm really starting to get frustrated.

I'd say the House of the Rising Sun episode was probably the most pointless episode...mainly because the storyline of Jin and Sun hasn't even been mentioned cause their characters aren't even basically a part of the show as of now.

I think a lot of you didn't like this episode because it added more questions than answers...like every show has.

Trust me, I'm hooked. I'll watch this show until it ends in 5, 10, whatever amount of years it runs on ABC.

My only complaint is that they throw so many little things in each show you have to pay attention...and then they never go back and explain. But to be perfectly honest, I think the one answer they'll give us when it's time to end the show will answer all the questions we have.

Why did the plane crash. Period.

I am surprised to read that so many people disliked this episode. I thought it moved many plots along (Boone and Locke, the gradual transformations of Sawyer and Jack) as well as introducing new ideas (Shannon and Sayid, Sun knowing about Kate). And I thought this did wonders for Kate's character. We now know how desperate she became- deceiving so many people to get something she desperately wanted. Was it the plane? Editing led us to believe so. If it was the plane, is it the plane itself she was after, or something about the plane or in the plane? And who was it that she loved and killed? And when can you believe her (if ever...)

I am surprised to read that so many people disliked this episode.* I thought it moved many plots along (Boone and Locke, the gradual transformations of Sawyer and Jack) as well as introducing new ideas (Shannon and Sayid, Sun knowing about Kate).* And I thought this did wonders for Kate's character.* We now know how desperate she became- deceiving so many people to get something she desperately wanted.* Was it the plane?* Editing led us to believe so.* If it was the plane, is it the plane itself she was after, or something about the plane or in the plane?* And who was it that she loved and killed?* And when can you believe her (if ever...)


I'm not suprised. How exactly did it move Boone and Locke's plotline along?

I thought it was good. Not all of the episodes have to be suspenseful. This one was more of a psychological look at how everyone is doing.

Jack is losing faith in Kate
Kate is crumbling under pressure and is very afraid of people finding out what she did.
Sawyer is calming down
Shannon is becoming more frustrated with Boone, and she is realizing that she can help, even when she thinks she isn't capable
Charlie is suffering from PTSD and misses Claire very much.
Rose is still holding strong, but she's being more helpful.

B-O-R-E-I-N-G ! ! !

Best word that can describe it.

LOST has gotten lost somewhere between last season & this season.

Instead of some more hints about the "others", we got to see Kate flirt with ANOTHER guy.

Instead of some additional info about the polar bear, we got to see Sawyer acting stupid about how to properly open a briefcase. (There's at least one axe, although it sorta disappeared), several knifes, & a bunch of pieces of airplane metal, which should be simple to use as a pry-bar, & several of these are probaly sharp also.

Instead of trying to find Clair & Danielle, which I would think would be MAJOR issues, it's more important to show that Sawyer can control EVERYTHING on the island, although he's vastly out-numbered. (But evidently not out-smarted)

Instead of a monster making noises & throwing people up in trees, an argument (again!!) developes between Boone insinuating that Shaanon's useless, & her *claiming Locke is his new boyfriend.

Instead of 40-something people being LOST....we now have 40-something people crying over toy airplanes, finding important clues that aren't important enough to share with the whole group....and 40-something people, who couldn't decide whether they wanted to live at the caves or on the beach, seemingly spending equal time at each, but just now realizing, after a month or so, that it sometimes comes up a storm in the tropics & the beach gets a little too wet.






Oh yeah.....did I mention Kate's continuing trauma of trying to decide which man she wants to be her boyfriend until they are rescued??


Lost has truly gotten lost.....maybe it'll find itself again in a week or so.

Theres not much more that I can say other than at this point Sawyer being allowed to get away with his crap has turned him inot a cartoon character.


I'm casting my vote with those who thought this episode was a serious lemon.

This ep was probably my least favorite, but not because it completley sucked or some such, it just lacked in the supernatural/big twist/suspense-y type thinigs that make an episode my favorite. It was a good episode. I like Sawyer's frustrations with the case. Loved his attempting to smash it open on the rock. Also found myself enjoying the Sayid/Shannon interaction. Don't know if want them to be a couple, but I like the interactio! Also like how Rose lets Charlie know he should look to God. And the French song was cool.

So, while it is probably my least favorite eppy to date, it wasn't that I didn't like it, I just liked others more.

I liked it. I agree that it was lacking, at times in the suspense, which I think makes the show fun, but overall I still really enjoyed it. I don't think the show is losing anything at all.

BAH BAH BAH!!!!!

This was a great episode! So it didn't have a lot of "action" ...that' s not everything! I loved the story, and I think it totally set up next week's ep!

I have a feeling that next Wednesday the gloves are coming off and they will stay off for at least 3 weeks!

Just my 2 cents

Grendel

The show is popular. It's all over the news. Do you actually believe that they are going to give up any of the secrets that they have hinted at any time soon?? My guess is that they'll drag it out for as long as it's possible to do. When it starts to loose rateings, they will either start giving out some of the explanations, IF they see that they haven't lost their fan-base, in which case they'll run 2 or 3 quick episodes that explain the stuff as quickly & easily as possible, & then let it die.

Starting out season #2, one of the most anticipated 2d season primiers EVER, with an episode that can't even touch ANY of the ones in season #1, is not a good sign at all.

it's still season one....this was just the first ep after holiday break. Season 2 won't be til fall.

They're saving the real good stuff for sweeps.

I liked it well enough. It's difficult to keep up the sturm und drang all the time; I think it's fine to give us a quieter episode with some interesting character development (Kate, Shannon). Besides, they're setting stuff up. Like:
1. the guns and ammunition -- we can count on those being used sometime later in the season.
2. That little airplane, which Kate robbed a bank for, has got to be important. Presumably it went went all the way from New Mexico to Australia with her (she probably killed her father accidentally or something).
3. Is Rose going to become a valued leader of the group? (er, The Stand).
4. La Mer and the equations -- what's with that? La Mer was behaving oddly -- has it done so before -- is that was Danielle was indicating by quoting the lyrics? Meanwhile, forget the Sayid/Shannon ship; I want to see the math!

Templeton

good points Templeton...

Jack was just majorly disappointed in Kate, can't say I blame him. After the numbers his father pulled on him I wouldn't be too thrilled w/being used...None the less, you could see he wanted to comfort Kate, but was torn between being lied to, having upset her, and giving her her space. .They'll be alright and I think there's more to Kate...I go w/Temp in thinking the dude she killed was her dad. Probably by accident and she blames herself so she launched into a bunch of nefarious deeds.

BAH BAH BAH!!!!!

This was a great episode!* *So it didn't have a lot of "action" ...that' s not everything!* I loved the story, and I think it totally set up next week's ep!*

I have a feeling that next Wednesday the gloves are coming off and they will stay off for at least 3 weeks!

Just my 2 cents

Grendel


The problem with this statement, is that the episode before this one already set up next week's episode just fine.* This one was pretty much just filler.* Sure it brought up some new things to ponder, but if they don't start answering SOME questions pretty soon then they are going to start losing alot of the casual viewers.* They don't even have to answer the questions, but they should at least give us some more details about questions we've already had as opposed to just bringing up new questions.*

Here's some things that I would have liked to have seen that wouldn't have given away all of the answers, but would have at least satisfied me for now:
1. They could have at least shown Locke and Boone uncovering the metal object in this episode (instead of the little snippet in next week's previews).
2. They could have shown a full view of the maps and equations, etc..* (I think that the maps would be more important than the equations at this point).
3. Charlie should have been able to tell them SOMETHING more by now on what he remembered.* Even if he was in shock, he could have told what he remembered up to a certain point in time.

I am surprised to read that so many people disliked this episode.* I thought it moved many plots along (Boone and Locke, the gradual transformations of Sawyer and Jack) as well as introducing new ideas (Shannon and Sayid, <b>Sun knowing about Kate</b>).*

Isn't Sun's situation just a goldmine of ideas waiting to be realized? I mean, she can move freely around camp, learning all about everyone, without them realizing that she's doing it. How can that benefit her? How can she use it to help (or hurt, although I can't imagine this) others? How can that make her indispensable later? I wonder what the writers will do with this treasure of a character. And I wonder why she chose to reveal her secret only to Michael.

And when can you believe her [Kate](if ever...)


This is the thing that diappointed me about Kate's story. When someone lies as convincingly as Kate does, you can never really know for sure when they're telling the truth, or playing a part. Even her tears, when Jack was confronting her.....I had to wonder if they were the same type of tears as the ones she shed at the bank. I liked her so much....now I wonder if they're going to ever let us trust her again.
:-\

Theres not much more that I can say other than at this point Sawyer being allowed to get away with his crap has turned him inot a cartoon character.


I can understand what you're saying here. All the way through the first half of the last show, one of my girls kept saying, "There's something different about this one...what is it?" and I knew what she meant. It was like there were totally different writers or something......not bad, just very different.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they show the preview of a woman's feet (Shannon's, I think) rising up of the ground at the end of the episode before this one? They showed it again last night, and I had thought that was supposed to happen this week. Maybe on the last episode in December, they were showing previews of more than one future episode?

And I thought this did wonders for Kate's character. We now know how desperate she became- deceiving so many people to get something she desperately wanted. Was it the plane? Editing led us to believe so.

This is a really good point. Was it, in fact, the plane that Kate was after? The way the shots were edited leads us to think that's it And of course we all know how everything about this show is SO straightforward.

It seems to me that some people want certain things to happen and when they don't pan out the way they want or the charaters don't behave they way they think they should they say the episode is bad.

Since we don't know where the writers are taking us it is harsh to say they are doing a lousy job.

They are the drivers and we are the passengers. We don't know our destination so we don't know if it is necessary to take the dirt road with all the pot holes or the super highway or the twisty, winding country road.

We have to trust our drivers and just enjoy the scenery. They will get us to our destination.

It's not like we have a plane to catch. ;)

It seems to me that some people want certain things to happen and when they don't pan out the way they want or the charaters don't behave they way they think they should they say the episode is bad.

Since we don't know where the writers are taking us it is harsh to say they are doing a lousy job.

They are the drivers and we are the passengers. We don't know our destination so we don't know if it is necessary to take the dirt road with all the pot holes or the super highway or the twisty, winding country road.

We have to trust our drivers and just enjoy the scenery. They will get us to our destination.

It's not like we have a plane to catch.* ;)


Amen. We've had only what, 12 episodes, one episode doesn't meet some folks standards and suddenly the show is doomed. I thought it was a pretty good episode, had some flaws but some folks are making it sound like its life or death. If your wellbeing as a person hinges on the quality of every episode of Lost, get a life and take a chill pill.

I didn't think this was a great episode. It wasn't horrible, but it was a bit of a dissapointment, especially after waiting 3 weeks. I would rate it last or maybe second-to-last in a list of Lost episodes. But apparently, being able to analyze the merits of an episode of a TV show means one has no life.

Hyperbole aside, the show was lacking if for no other reason than there were too many different things going on, it was too disjointed, and none of it was all that compelling. I had no expectation that Claire would be found, or that we would learn about what Locke and Boone found. I did, however, expect that we would learn more about Kate. But we really don't know anything more about Kate than we already knew: she's a criminal and a liar. (I felt like evil Willow: Bored now.)

The episode was slow and a kind of throw away of set-ups for future eps. I'm actually sad that they led the return off like this. I don't expect to see such great ratings numbers next week.

Finally, the fact that it was a less than stellar episode, is proved by the reality of so many people busy arguing about whether the episode was good or not, instead of about the nuances of the content.

I liked this episode. I said this in other places and I’ll say it again - I am glad they didn't have everyone poking about the bushes looking for Claire and I am also glad Claire wasn’t found in this episode. We poked around the bushes in the episode before. Presumably they continued to do that the very next morning but there was no trail. If she was found so soon we would all think Ethan and The Others were wusses, particularly if Claire was rescued in the very next episode. It is best they increase their badness for a bigger battle instead of the cheap pay off.

So three days after they find Charlie (timeline according to the Shannon and Boone boyfriend!Locke conversation), Jack shifts gears and wants to meet the French Lady in order to get info for the Claire search (doesn't pan out ‘cause Sayid ain’t talking), Sayid and Shannon are trying to translate the maps for clues to help Claire (turns out to not be much of a help but a nice tune nonetheless), and Locke and Boone are up to something (turns out to be the hatch thing and not so much Claire, but only they know that), and Sawyer is taking the Claire thing just serious enough to be following Kate around like a southern pervert. Kate is picking fruit, but people have to eat you know and she is the resident tree climber.

To me the ‘looking for Claire’ part of the story is being covered by those things. Why is everyone here so mad? It seems to me as though everyone who knew Claire spoke of her least once or were trying to do something to find her (even if it was in a passive way). To most of the other people who don’t know her she is just “The Pregnant Girl” - even Sayid called her that. To them they have more reason to haul junk up the beach than beat around the bush and expose themselves to danger. That’s life.

Things I liked about this episode –

-I loved how Rose was back and is now the flip side of Locke in some ways. She is also slightly creepy and reminds me of the Oracle from the Matrix in the way she phrases thing.

-Kate’s is in up to her neck in more than just one criminal act and she has skills. It felt as though the robbery was not the first time she did something like that and certainly not the one reason she was being tracked by the US Marshal all the way to Australia. I suspect she is on the trail of something, finding clues a la Alias and Rambaldi, and her story the Marshal so snidely said on the plane would be too far fetched for anyone to believe is the thing she can’t bring herself to tell anyone. No wonder - if it is a story that involves a small toy plane it seems like many Lost fans can’t accept it either. :) My theory is that the man she loved was her father, and the little plane was her father’s. Her father, the man who taught her to track and treated nature as a religion was somehow involved in something that would connect 815 and the plane and either was following the clues himself before he died or whatever or left them for her. And to go much further out upon this limb I’ll even say whatever trail she was following is the thing that led her to Australia, even closer to the fated plane, and she is still following something on the island. Why else would she volunteer for every expedition? Even Jack thought that was odd and called her on it.

-Sawyer, goofing off like a kid with the case, was acting just like his namesake. It made the lit major in me smile. I also liked how he and Jack had the connection in terms of understanding how to handle Kate. Bonding maybe?

-Shannon really shown in this ep. She isn’t made of stone and has feelings. Good to know. Hope she stays around enough for me to appreciate her more.

-Sayid is backing out of what he said about his time with the French lady and the voices. Makes me suspicious.

-I liked how the character relationships were completely shifted in this episode. I assume this shift will pave the way to further plot progression in later episodes. Kate, who once was one everyone’s good side, is on no ones good side. Jack lost the one person who has been by his side from day one. Shannon made a friend. Charlie is going to finally feel forgiven I hope and be Pro-ActiveForgiven!Charlie. Boone bonded with Locke and now is his lackey. Locke is doing something weird and creepy in secret from the rest of the survivors.

So, in short, this episode had a lot packed into it and I find it fun to pick it apart. I reeeeally am enjoying Lost and I am in it for the long haul. Every character interests me (I want a Hurly episode!) and, knowing Alias and the pay off that happened at the end of Season One, I *know* we are in for a ride with Lost and none of these details like the little plane or bigger events like Claire’s kidnapping will be dropped. Faith is much better than denial. :D

I have been wondering since Epsiode 6 how they could possibly keep up the pace... you have to establish characters, build background, show them living but not engaged in dire struggle sometimes.

That is what I hate about ER, a show i have not watched since year two unless forced by others.... the show is so driven by chaos and energy of an ER... "sick people, character dev, sick people, someone has a problem, ambulance arrives with unexpected/horrific cargo, heroic save (or sometimes failure), and then often enough "aw we saved this kid, life is not so bad". That pace, that speed, every episode, is BORING.

What I find most interesting here is they have lots of guns and ammo. Think about it. French lady and the others have been there for some time. We have not evidence that anyone ever leaves, or gets re-supply. The 46 might be the best armed on the island. They have a 4 person commando, three of whom know guns, right? Sawyer (criminal), Sun's husband (criminal?), Kate (criminal and super freaking crack shot), and Locke, who if this pans out like everything else on crazy island, will ALSO be the best damn shot ever, just like everything else he has been trying and succeeding at.

So, Ethan had better watch out... haha.

W

I enjoyed this show, it actually made me look at some characters in a diff. way, esp about Shannon..I felt with her in this episode, usually she just annoys the hell outta me (Good job there Maggie Grace :)) and this time I acutally felt for her. I could have jumped thru the TV and beat the crap outta freaky Boone for calling her "useless" no matter how much some ppl annoys me..nobody is useless!

Kate surprised the hell out of me with her manipulative manners, I actually hated her in some scenes but nope I dont hate HER, I dont really belive in much of what she tells now cos with this girl you dont know what is the truth or just another lie anymore LOL, she is a mystery that one! Jack still seems to belive some of her stories but he is still getting more suspicious. Sawyer on the other hand is starting to see that she isnt really telling the truth is she...and it is interesting to see that SHE gets some backstory out of these 2 guys....it is allmost like she wants to know what "buttons to push" to get her way....ok I only say this cos in this episode she did come across as a manipulative bitch but nope I refuse that that is all she is...there HAS to be a reason for why she does this, why she keeps telling "stories" and not the actual truth. The girl, pretty much like Sawyer himself, got some issues to sort out.

Jack actually grew on me alittle...he showed some more GUTS as in not always doing the heroic and "right" thing, allthough the threat to not give Sawyer is medicine wasnt er..in good doctor tone..but ok it worked. I dont think he would have done that for a second and I think Sawyer didnt think so either. I liked that these 2 seemed to connect somewhat..not the usual hostility. Sawyer's comment about how Kate got Jack to get the case wasnt spiteful, it was a serious warning. And Jack didnt immediately dismiss that.

So there seems to be more respect growing in between these 2 guys...wich I like :).

Sawyer is definetly not the jerk, badass, selfish SOB he appeared to be in the first episodes...he is becoming more "likeable" WITHOUT loosing that edge in him, he wont give up his comments (thank GOD...gotta love those comments he throws out there LOL).

Ok back to the episode...this wasnt as fast paced as say the previous one, but still it had intrigues, twists and surprises wich to me it was interesting enough to watch. I wasnt bored or dissappointed at all...I dont want each and every episode being a breathless and seemingly endless line of action. OK maybe apart from 24 but that is a diff story lol.

I like that they seem to change the pace on the episodes not all of the previous episodes were fast paced either...and well to build more mystery and intrigues....it sure as hell keeps us guessing! And no matter how much it annoys me that once one question is answered there are atleast 20 more thrown our way....it keeps it INTERESTING, nothing is what it seems like, we basically dont know anything that is going to happen hehe...I like that kind of tone in a series!

So yes I enjoyed Whatever The Case May be just as much as the others wasnt a dissappointment at all..allthough I do miss Claire..and I do miss the Monster...(yes I do miss it..LOL)

Jack actually grew on me alittle...he showed some more GUTS as in not always doing the heroic and "right" thing, allthough the threat to not give Sawyer is medicine wasnt er..in good doctor tone..but ok it worked. I dont think he would have done that for a second and I think Sawyer didnt think so either. I liked that these 2 seemed to connect somewhat..not the usual hostility. Sawyer's comment about how Kate got Jack to get the case wasnt spiteful, it was a serious warning. And Jack didnt immediately dismiss that.

I liked this analysis Mary ;D Matter of fact I'm gonna steal it to post on the ABC J/K thread ;) Fear not I will credit you :) I too don't believe for a second Jack would withhold the meds. He knew rt off the bat Sawyer was going to play hard ball, so all he did was speak in terms Sawyer could understand....I actually think Sawyer didn't give that warning as necessarily a benevolent I've got your back gesture, but rather to continue to sort of plant seeds of doubt in Jack's head. Just like he's made it a point to say something to Jack everytime Kate has shown him attention. Sawyer figures he has to do everything he can to get and keep Kate, which includes playing the competition...Con Jack like he conned the husbands. Not because he doesn't care for Kate, or because he's heartless, but because he thinks it's what he has to do. That he isn't good enough on his own to win Kate over and has to therefore manipulate the situation to a degree. I think though if he continues it, it will work to his detriment at some point if Kate becomes privy to it.

verrrry interesing-thanks Mary :)

i didn't think it was the worst episode at all. i really liked it! they maybe should have mentioned claire a few more times. and where did hurley go? i can't remember seeing him once in that ep..!?

but the sawyer scenes were superb. he's getting to be a really interesting character!

i think locke wasn't in it much this time because he will be a main feature in the next ep... and the writers want to keep what boone and locke are up to, a secret until next week (or perhaps for even longer..) but yeah.

good things to come, i am sure of that.

Nah, I dont think it was a bad episode. I think alot of people were dissapointed by not finding out more about Claire--but all in due time. It's how they build up the suspense. I wasn't too surprised by Kate's backstory, I always assume the worst, but she deserves more credit now. I didn't realize how manipulative she was. The writers always know how to keep us coming back for more, and I think they did that very successfully here. :bye:

Happy you liked my thoughts Banshee..but I am not sure I can agree with you why Sawyer gave Jack that warning..I honestly belive there was nothing more than him just saying something like "she isnt all she is cracked up to be" to Jack...Sawyer got the feeling he was manipulated to get the case...she gave it to him, and then tried to steal it back, refused to tell him what was in it...and then next thing he knows Jack's coming to get it? He thinks Jack is being manipulated too...

And well I cant totally disagree with you either..I am sure he still wants Kate and he wont let Jack just "get her" but I dont think this comment was anymore than just a flat out warning, I got the feeling Sawyer got some respect for Jack in that moment.

Jack actually grew on me alittle...he showed some more GUTS as in not always doing the heroic and "right" thing, allthough the threat to not give Sawyer is medicine wasnt er..in good doctor tone..but ok it worked. I dont think he would have done that for a second and I think Sawyer didnt think so either.


Oh, I think Jack meant it. And I think Sawyer knew he meant it. The thing that came to mind when Sawyer told Jack, "You wouldn't do that." and Jack said, "You're wrong," was that Sawyer's had that little conversation before, lol. That's exactly what he said to Sayid, and what Sayid said to him, and we all know how THAT turned out. I think Sawyer isn't quite so sure he can figure out what people will or won't do anymore....and with good reason.

I liked it as an episode! Even if it didn't have Claire. I want her back >:( (But I suspect they will wait till she has her baby and then rescue her but not her baby. It will remain with the others.)

As far as it being the worst episode. "Whatever The Case May Be" has already generated the second largest number of posts of any episode. I think that any episode that can generate this much discussion can't qualify as the worst or weakest.
We can't all be coming here to gripe about it being a bum ep. er Bum ep. is not intended as a word play on the Kate/Sawyer swim party. :angel:

Since RBA I've liked Boone more and more. I definitely like him more than Jack and Kate, and at this point even more than Sayid and Sawyer. But anyway, I think his treatment of Shannon totally makes sense. His meanness is a reaction to her meanness. I think Boone has a good heart, a compassion to help people, and a determination to do what's right - his own sister's complete lack of these qualities disgusts him.

They bicker like brother and sister, and in the beginning it was more Shannon who made Boone feel useless and inferior, but Boone took it for a while, still trying to help her out and be nice. But I think he's grown to resent her shallow self-absorption more and more, especially as he's felt more useful himself in the past few episodes.

Boone does everything he can to help with whatever crisis is happening, even when he has absolutely no skills and no idea what to do. Shannon, on the other hand, even when her help is vital (in translating French), refuses to do anything. If I were her sibling I would have more than a few harsh words for her - I'd want to slap her in the face! Boone is being kind.


I see where you're coming from, but I disagree. I think it started out with normal sibling fighting but it seems like Boone just doesn't know where to stop. Shannon's insults are more like "Oh, Bone-head." While Boones are like "You're so worthless everyone hates you go die now please.", etc.

Even when Shannon says nothing, Boone feels the need to put her down. I think this episode shows us that most of Shannon's lack of self confidence is from Boone. When she tries to help and Sayid says it is a mistake, Boone's affect on her becomes more obvious - "Haven't you heard? I'm worthless!" I can't imangine anything more horrible to do to a sibling then to make them feel totally worthless, and that's what Boone has done. There may be a reason for it, but it's not cool in my book.

And I don't believe Shannon is that self-absorbed... it comes off that way, but this last episode espically has made me think that she just puts on a tough face to stand up to her brother's name-calling. This is why I'm a fan of the Sayid/Shannon relationship, I think that her relationship with Boone is anything but healthy for either of them, and she needs someone with whom she can become "all that she can be", etc. etc.

Not that Shannon is the most mature by any means, but I'm starting to feel for the girl... and I do actually like Boone, I think his heart is in the right place he's just not so successful. This episode just changed my perceptions on his and Shannon's chacters.

Like it or not, it really got everyone talking. This board has as much or more posts in it than the other episodes combined, and in less time too! And not all those posts are talking about how horrible it was - a lot of them are speculation. This episode really gave us a lot of necessary fodder - I guess it was manily a set up for future episodes.

(erf... sorry for the double post, hit a few weird buttons. *shakes fist at a lack of a delete option*

[b]
As far as it being the worst episode. "Whatever The Case May Be" has already generated the second largest number of posts of any episode. I think that any episode that can generate this much discussion can't qualify as the worst or weakest.
We can't all be coming here to gripe about it being a bum ep. er Bum ep. is not intended as a word play on the Kate/Sawyer swim party. :angel:


But that's because more and more people are finding the board.

I thought it was... Ok. Entertaining, but nothing was resolved. It kind of reminded me of "the Moth"- not a borring episode, but badly made, compared to the others. Which brings me to my next point:

I really dislike where they are going with Charlie's character. I just don't see him working in dramatic situations that well, and already he's become the island angst mop. It's nice that he's finding God again, but that boy has an ability to recover from painful situations like the snapping of a rubber band. It would be nice to see him retain some of his depression in the next episode, and perhaps carry the effects of this event throughout the series. Let's face it, he may get some help from a friend, but he almost died after getting kidnapped and strung up a tree, after failing to protect the pregnant woman he cared for, after giving up heroin, after surviving a plane crash. That's the kind of emotion strain that leaves a mark.

Remember Charlie in "Raised by Another"? Adoribly funny, but able to be occationally serious? That's the Charlie I want.

Kate and her little toy plane may serve a purpose, but maybe it could have waited until more pressing matters were resolved. I liked Sawyer in this episode (that is, I liked laughing at him), and Jack was pretty good too. Sayid and Shannon rocked the beach, particulaly the song at the end.

You know what I want more of? The Locke, Walt, and Michael story. That was, in my oppinion, the best thing the show had going for it.

I thought it was... Ok.* Entertaining, but nothing was resolved.* It kind of reminded me of "the Moth"- not a borring episode, but badly made, compared to the others.*

Wow! If this doesn't prove that it's all a matter of personal perception, I don't know what does! I thought "The Moth" was the best one yet. I can't think of a better way to tell Charlie's story, or a better resolution for it. It tugged on my heartstrings, and made a great big soft spot for Charlie in there. It wasn't just the way it made me relate on an emotional level, though; I thought it was just excellent storytelling all around.

I'm not a fan of video games and instant gratification, lol.....and I sometimes wonder what all of that has done to our society when it comes normal pacing in storylines, and the need for patience in longer series like this.

Ah, Whistler be patient, trust the writers. I'm fan of the show Farscape, and like Lost it had hints and threw many mysteries at you. Some things were solved or revealed at the end of the season, but many things were left unanswered. Everything meant something. A throwaway line in season 2 would come back and bite you you in the behind in season 4. I truly hope Lost goes down the same path. I hope everything dosen't get solved by the end of the season. I think this episode leaves clues to possibly many eps down the line and I can imagine, 3 years from now someone going ' rememder when we saw that model airplane in seson one in the ep that sucked? Boy we were so wrong.' Episodes like these I savour and file away for later, then become utterly stunned when things are revealed. I think another person likened it to a good book. I agree.

Also like Farscape they don't spoon feed you the whole plot and expect that you are smart enough to figure out things on your own. I'm sure Rose knew a bit about Charlie and I'm sure they were conversing off screen (even before this episode)

Trust the writers. They know what they are doing and they trust that you are smart enough and patient enough to see what they cook up :D

I am a Farscape fan too. Must be where we get our resolve to keep enjoying the mystery. :) I like the similar people-thrown-together-by-circumstance theme as well as the fact the characters don't like each other all the time. Makes things stay fresh.

Wow! If this doesn't prove that it's all a matter of personal perception, I don't know what does! I thought "The Moth" was the best one yet. I can't think of a better way to tell Charlie's story, or a better resolution for it. It tugged on my heartstrings, and made a great big soft spot for Charlie in there. It wasn't just the way it made me relate on an emotional level, though; I thought it was just excellent storytelling all around.

For me, "The Moth" was like watching a fun but cheezy movie- it contained some of the campiest lines of the series ("It was about the music, Liam! You took that away from me!"), had that terrible Driveshaft concert, and the slightly tilted camera angle when Charlie sees his brother with drugs. Plus, I didn't buy that Charlie would start taking heroin because his older brother yelled at him. But it was still fun.

I'm not a fan of video games and instant gratification, lol.....and I sometimes wonder what all of that has done to our society when it comes normal pacing in storylines, and the need for patience in longer series like this.


Sit- com mentality. Everything should be resolved by the end of the episode in sit-coms. I really enjoy the pacing of Lost- it does remind me quite a bit of reading a book.

For me, "The Moth" was like watching a fun but cheezy movie- it contained some of the campiest lines of the series ("It was about the music, Liam! You took that away from me!"), had that terrible Driveshaft concert, and the slightly tilted camera angle when Charlie sees his brother with drugs. Plus, I didn't buy that Charlie would start taking heroin because his older brother yelled at him. But it was still fun.


I agree, for me 'The Moth' is one of the worst episodes. Just because they beat you over the head with the metaphors and the plot seems a little contrived (Locke and his three questions?) Which is also one of the things I don’t like about this episode – the whole case thing is a little forced in my opinion. A little off topic, but eh ;)

My theory is that the man she loved was her father, and the little plane was her father’s.


I've heard this before and it makes me feel icky. :-X

I love my dad but I don't think I would refer to him as "the man I loved". That sounds too much like a lover, not a familia relationship.



I really dislike where they are going with Charlie's character. I just don't see him working in dramatic situations that well, and already he's become the island angst mop. It's nice that he's finding God again, but that boy has an ability to recover from painful situations like the snapping of a rubber band. It would be nice to see him retain some of his depression in the next episode, and perhaps carry the effects of this event throughout the series. Let's face it, he may get some help from a friend, but he almost died after getting kidnapped and strung up a tree, after failing to protect the pregnant woman he cared for, after giving up heroin, after surviving a plane crash. That's the kind of emotion strain that leaves a mark.

One ep doens't make Charlie the mope of the island. As you stated, he has been through a lot including almost dying. I think he's entitled to a bit of angst and moping. Give the poor guy another episode to see if he recovers or not.

I've heard this before and it makes me feel icky. :-X

I love my dad but I don't think I would refer to him as "the man I loved". That sounds too much like a lover, not a familia relationship.


I agree, but maybe she means that her father was the only many she ever loved, and she never had any feelings for other men?
That kind of thing, perhaps... :\

I agree, but maybe she means that her father was the only many she ever loved, and she never had any feelings for other men?
That kind of thing, perhaps... :\

Still makes me feel icky. ;)

Remember Charlie in "Raised by Another"? Adoribly funny, but able to be occationally serious? That's the Charlie I want.


It's only been one episode...I can't imagine it would have worked for him to be that way already, only 4 days after being kidnapped and hanged, died and resucitated. He's hardly a mope after just one episode. Something as traumatic as that certainly entitles him to a couple of episodes to recover I should think. :)

No, I don't think Charlie should be Ok already either. My complaint was that I'd rather not see him in such a situation to begin with, because I don't like him half as well as a dramatic (angsty) character. Now that he's been in that situation, however, I think they really need to pay his state of mind some attention, and not just have him magically heal, like he did with the drugs. Sorry if I was unclear- for some reason, I'm having a very difficult time sorting out my thoughts on this matter.

I'm late on this, but I would say that this was definitely the worst of the episodes so far. I think the main problem with it was that very very little actually happened in this episode. It was long drawn out scenes of trying to open the case, or trying to get the case, or flirting while fighting over the case. The actual story was pretty thin. The flashback sequences also revealed very little, which I think was particularly frustrating because Kate's first flashback ep gave up so little information. The subplots, (Sayid and Shannon, Locke & Boone, Charlie & the pregnant girl everyone forgot happened to have been dragged away screaming while Charlie was left for dead 4 days prior), were so small they could barely be called sub. The most interesting stuff (aside from "Kate"'s exceptional skill with a gun and the realization that she's been playing a role since she landed on the island) was pretty much left for the end, ie: Jack's new hard edge, and Boone's sudden turn down crazy stalker lane. And the return of Rose was lovely, but way underused.

......and Boone's sudden turn down crazy stalker lane.*

I like this! Funniest thing I've read all night! :lol2:

Something about this episode seemed out of sinc.

Could the episode been reedited to give minimal attention to the rising tide? This having to do with real life tragic events.
If less time was focused on the other events and there had been more on the evacuation it would have emphasized that the survivors were busy rather than just not being concerned about Claire

that's a good thought. the tsunamis and the timing of this episode were one of the first things I thought about when I saw them talking about the tide rising abnormally. it's kind of eerie really. i know other shows have edited in order to be sensitive to surprise tragic events like that, so it's certainly possible.

That's the same thought I had about the tide and the fuselage and belongings being swept out to sea ...they don't want to seem like they are making light of the real tsunami tragedy or worse yet trying to capitalize on it ....although I'm sure this episode was written and filmed long before that happened, peoples reactions can be strange ....I know they re-did part of the Spiderman movie to leave out shots of the Twin Towers after 9/11, so maybe they did end up editing out parts of the tide scenes and adding in scenes that had been originally cut