what was the word Locke was filling in ?

Diane

Gilgamesh, but I forget what the clue was.

If anyone gets a screen cap of the crossword puzzle, I'd love to see it!

I think there was also a little joke in there, because one of the words was "Gilligan"

i think that was gilgamesh not gilligan

You so read my mind! I posted that request in another thread! hopefully someone will come back w/ one.

Sorry, didn't see someone else post about it at the same time. :biggrin:

the clue was Enkidu's friend and the answer was LAA, where did u get gilamesh?

oh well i thought i saw gilligan.. what was the "LAA" that he filled in?

Thanks, now what the heck does that mean.:confused:

Diane

definetely gilgamesh other words i noticed were ransacked, gilgamesh, somas, siend, tiers,rices, acolins and cilia. Although i did not have time to check out the clues.

Enkidu's friend = Gilgamesh.

Gods created Enkidu as a counterpoint to Gilgamesh, to make him "whole."

(Some say romantic, others say not so much...)

Locke and Ecko, anyone?

Hmm?

There once was a fellow named Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh was a phenomenal individual. He was one third man and two thirds god. Due
to his special abilities, Gilgamesh felt he was worthy of everyone's praise, and therefore bossed everyone around. The citizens
of Uruk were displeased with Gilgamesh's behavior and asked the gods for help. The gods responded by sending a man named
Enkidu, who was a double of Gilgamesh. Enkidu lived in the forest with all the animals, and was a wild savage. One day Gilgamesh
sent a hunter and a beautiful woman to the forest, planning to distract Enkidu from the animals. The hunter left, and Enkidu and
the woman became good friends. Enkidu was turned into a man, and he left with the woman for Uruk.

When Enkidu entered the city, the citizens praised him as if he were king. Gilgamesh heard of Enkidu's entrance, and soon
became jealous. When the two men encountered one another, they immediately began to fight. As the fight ended, each stood
up, and each saw them self in the other's eyes. They embraced and immediately became friends. The two men got to know each
other, and then decided to go on a quest seeking fame.


http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~dtmason/enkandgil.htm

But Gilgamesh is the answer is the clue Enkidu's friend.

Nevermind my last post, I must have posted it at relatively the same time as the last few people.

Anybody have a screen cap yet?

As the fight ended, each stood
up, and each saw them self in the other's eyes.


http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~dtmason/enkandgil.htm

ooo kinda like how sayid saw himself in ana. he tied up jin and wanted to kill him, ana tied up him and wanted to kill him.

DIABOLO I think you eft out the most important part of gilgameshes epic:

Journey of Gilgamesh and Enkidu to the cedar forest.
Gilgamesh and Enkidu, with help from Shamash, kill Humbaba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humbaba), the demon guardian of the trees, then cut down the trees which they float as a raft back to Uruk.
Gilgamesh rejects the sexual advances of the goddess Ishtar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishtar). Ishtar asks her father, the sky-god Anu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anu), to send the "Bull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull) of Heaven" to avenge the rejected sexual advances. He does. Gilgamesh and Enkidu kill the bull.
The gods decide that somebody has to be punished for killing the Bull of Heaven, and it is Enkidu. Enkidu becomes ill and describes the Netherworld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherworld) as he is dying.Lament of Gilgamesh for Enkidu.
Gilgamesh sets out to avoid Enkidu's fate and makes a perilous journey to visit Utnapishtim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utnapishtim) and his wife, the only humans to have survived the Great Flood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_%28mythology%29) who were granted immortality by the gods, in the hope that he too can attain immortality. Along the way, Gilgamesh encounters the "ale-wife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alewyfe)" Siduri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siduri) who attempts to dissuade him from his quest.
Completion of the journey, by punting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_%28boat%29) across the Waters of Death with Urshanabi (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Urshanabi&action=edit), the ferryman.
Gilgamesh meets Utnapishtim, who tells him about the great flood and gives him two chances for immortality. First he tells Gilgamesh that if he can stay awake for six days and seven nights he will become immortal. Gilgamesh fails, but Utnapishtim decides to give him another chance. Utnapishtim tells Gilgamesh that if he can obtain a plant from the bottom of the sea and eat it he will become immortal. Gilgamesh obtains the plant, but it is stolen by a snake. Gilgamesh, having failed both chances, returns to Uruk, where the sight of its massive walls provoke Gilgamesh to praise this enduring work of mortal men. Gilgamesh is killed by a bull, stabbed by its horns. Every one is overcome with sadness. Gilgamesh is tormented by bull demons in the after life.

Edit: Sorry for the double post guys, I wonder why we are able to double post anyways

Thanks Blunty, I just posted the first two paragraphs not to make my note too long, thats why I posted the link. Thanks for completing it here!

Very Interesting! I'm thinking more on the lines of Sayid and AnaLucia than Locke and Eko.

There was just a point in the coversation when AL said "we're both dead" that I think there was a little bit of a connection between them.
An understanding, if you will.

Diane

But no screencaps yet?

ooo kinda like how sayid saw himself in ana. he tied up jin and wanted to kill him, ana tied up him and wanted to kill him.

and don't forget when Sawyer was tortured "by a gen-u-ine Iraqi."

Has anyone investigated the crossword puzzle clue Locke was working on in the hatch? Enkidu's friend . . . Gilgamesh? The answer he wrote down didn't make any sense either . . .

Gilgamesh seems to be the correct answer for the clue but the other words involved are a little suspect: ACOLNS - GHARE - SIEND - IMGTATIVE. Whoever was working the puzzle before seems to have screwed up. I say somone else was working the puzzle because of the difference in the I's - I & i. The depths I have sunk to when I am a critic of a 2 second shot of someone working a crossword puzzle. But, are there any other puzzles left in the episode for us to solve?

Wasn't Gilgamesh one of the Three Wise men?

theres already three posts about it, check it out

Also of note, the Epic of Gilgamesh is not a complete story, as quite a bit of it has been lost over the years. What we know has been pieced together, but we don't know the whole story.

But no screencaps yet?

Okay, here is a poor one: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/Griz20/ScreenShot011.jpg

Griz

Thanks! I think the answers are all right, Ghent means The (treaty of Ghent) and then the other answers probably go with some special type of clue.

The three wise men were Caspar, Melchior, and Balthazar.

Gilgamesh is the lead character in "The Epic of Gilgamesh," an epic poem, the oldest written work in the world. Only partially reconstructed. Deals with Sumerian mythology.

Enkidu is Gilgamesh's best friend (or lover, depending on who you ask), created by the gods to counteract/complete him.

yea really, i dont get whats so confusing, a simple google should answer it if you dont know

But, Enkidu eventually dies at the hands of the gods...

What was the answer locke jotted?

Thank you thank you thank you for the link! Could more of the answers be anagrams?

Not a screencap..but info from it....

(don't see the #)belgian port (answer - ghent)
38 robbed (answer - ransacked)
40 ww2 movie feature...hyph wd (don't see answer)
42 enkidu's friend (gilgamesh)
43 less brazen (don't see answer)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v683/Griz20/ScreenShot012.jpg

? - Belgian port = GHENT
38 - Robbed = RANSACKED
40 - WWII movie feature: hyph wd = ???
42 - Enkidu's friend = GILGAMESH
43 - Less brazen = ???
*************************************************
Ghent fits but without knowing the clues for the other words, the answers could be correct but the answers shown are not 'real' words - but does not mean that they are not correct. Crossword puzzles are somewhat of a passion but I am by no mean an expert on them.

edit - too slow on my part - nicole94

Griz, i love crosswords, i do the NYT, Chicago and USA today on a daily basis, not to mention the online ones... alot of times in NYT they have a theme, and sometimes the themes are that the words are hidden in misspelled answers or go in a diagonal or backwards pattern, which is why i was wondering about screencaps..

Haha, notice Gilgamesh is number 42 down

I agree with Griz. There seems to be mistakes in the puzzle although "gilgamesh" is probably correct. Do those writers know how to send us all into a tizzy, or what!!! Now I'm going to spend my Thanksgiving trying to figure out a fictional crossword puzzle!

They might not be mistakes. They could be clues into solving the theme of the puzzle.

With the thoroughness of the people here, I expect by tomorrow that someone will have the issue of the puzzle book that this puzzle is from. :smile: Then again, maybe it won't take until tomorrow.

I have worked crossword puzzles for ages but lately have been concentrating on Sudokus.

Aphasia_1, it seems like the only misspelled words are the across words that contribute to "gilgamesh". Is that consistent with the themed puzzles you were talking abt, or would more of the words be misspelled throughout the puzzle? It seems like there's some kind of meaning behind the fact that all the words that contribute to "gilgamesh" are spelled incorrectly.

I think Locke is filling in the wrong answer as per the screenshot.
The across answers intersecting for the center down answer should be different.

I'm just going on my instincts here - i do a lot of crosswords.

I think he meant to write S P R I_ _ A C E

I think with assumed general frequencies of typical xword answers we'd have, intersecting the GILGAMESH answer:

SHARE
SPEND
ACORNS
IMITATIVE
LA?
??IS?SKEET
APERS
ACIDS
MEAGER

definetely gilgamesh other words i noticed were ransacked, gilgamesh, somas, siend, tiers,rices, acolins and cilia. Although i did not have time to check out the clues. holy mother of god way to be specific lol


los angeles airport comes to mind lol...'laa' or a note to follow 'so'?? lol

More would be mispelled. If it is a theme then there would be a reasoning for it. Say that all the misplaced letter would spell words.. or you would have to unscramble to find the main theme of the puzzle. I'm still working on it, but w/o the complete puzzle pic that will be hard..

Most of the mistakes i've found could be corrected w/ an E. Epee, Aside, Tiere... but i'm not sure yet.

....IS?SKEET

is probably

DISC SKEET

or

DISK SKEET

or mystique mispelled..

and aren't cilia the membranes in your lungs that help clear out debris...

EPER - european pollutant emission register...

the fighting and self-reflecting sounds more like sawyer and kate, especially in light of next week's kate-centered episode. but neithe rof them seem to be anything more than just mortal. one third man and two thirds god sounds more like locke and ecko, but the allegory doesn't really fit. unless... locke and ecko know each other from a past life, maybe from a past life residing on the island. if there was ever an episode that seemed to back up the idea that the island is purgatory it's this one though. it seems like whenever a character is at peace with him/herself he/she finally dies. boone let go of shannon and is at peace; boom he dies. shannon finally lets go of whatever issues she had and falls for sayid; boom she dies. ecko seems to sense that there might be a tally-- he killed two Others, so now he has make up for bad, rash decisions: so he saves sawyer, not for sawyer, but "for himself." who knows. the purgatory idea is lame though. and it does nothing to explain the dharma project, the Others, the monster etc. though later in the gilgamesh story there is a serpent (a big mechanical serpent?)

I don't know if anyone caught the clue on the crossword puzzle that Locke was working on, but the clue said, "Enkidu's friend." I looked it up and found that Enkidu's friend was "Gilgamesh", the subject of an epic poem, with some really interesting references.
<DIV>This is an excerpt from the site

imgtative - my guess is its imaginative... but spelling in a semi phonetic way, say with mismkeet - which i now looking at it is a play on kiss me kate

GUYS you are missing the forest for the trees. we are overanalyzing this-what words are in the crossword puzzle is not the question we should be asking. We should be asking-where the he!! did Locke get a newspaper?!?!? Was that something hes been carrying around since the crash? Newspaper is not super photosensitive but would definitley degrade in the three years desmond has been in the hatch. spooky! whats the origin of that paper??!

theres like 4 other threads on this

welcome to the site, though

I believe that it is a puzzle book and not a newpaper and I know that those last forever - I just threw out one with a date of 1968 on it.

Anyone know a link to an "incomplete word" dictionary search site?

no one has mentioned SOMA. as in the happy pills in Aldous Huxley's Brave new world. as in soma, soma, soma: "All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects." it was like their prozac in that book, which is kind of BF Skinner-y/utopian...

I believe that it is a puzzle book and not a newpaper and I know that those last forever - I just threw out one with a date of 1968 on it.

WOW! Im as old as that book of yours!

GUYS you are missing the forest for the trees. we are overanalyzing this-what words are in the crossword puzzle is not the question we should be asking. We should be asking-where the he!! did Locke get a newspaper?!?!? Was that something hes been carrying around since the crash? Newspaper is not super photosensitive but would definitley degrade in the three years desmond has been in the hatch. spooky! whats the origin of that paper??!

Maybe you're right, but i do enough puzzles to know that the answers are hidden within the words.And they aren't always spelled correctly or spelled how you think they should be. Pick up a thursday's NYT puzzle and try to solve it w/o trickery involved. It would be impossible. They insert symbols, backwords letters, extra letters, letters that read upwards. And in there lies the answers to the puzzle. If you focus on the correct words, which is the case here, you'll get part of the answer, but not the whole one. Which of course you should and could do if that is your choice. But i'm a puzzle junkie and its what i do .. i have to or else i'd never finish the puzzle. you do it your way.. i'll do it mine.

Isn't Gilgamesh the sorcerer from the Smurfs?


...

... anyone? Anyone?

... :) Just kiddin'. :)

Isn't Gilgamesh the sorcerer from the Smurfs?


...

... anyone? Anyone?

... :) Just kiddin'. :)


That was Gargamel :)

There once was a fellow named Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh was a phenomenal individual. He was one third man and two thirds god. Due
to his special abilities, Gilgamesh felt he was worthy of everyone's praise, and therefore bossed everyone around. The citizens
of Uruk were displeased with Gilgamesh's behavior and asked the gods for help. The gods responded by sending a man named
Enkidu, who was a double of Gilgamesh. Enkidu lived in the forest with all the animals, and was a wild savage.

When the two men encountered one another, they immediately began to fight. As the fight ended, each stood up, and each saw them self in the other's eyes. They embraced and immediately became friends. The two men got to know each
other, and then decided to go on a quest seeking fame.


http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~dtmason/enkandgil.htm


This totally sounds like Jack and Ana Lucia to me. Jack- the "ideal" leader and Ana the wild leader will balance each other out after some fighting.

Jack=Gilgamesh, Ana=Enkidu?

aphasia, that puzzle book locke's got there is soooo not a NYT puzzle.

the numbers are serif-ed. and the layout of the puzzle (vertical symmetry) tips us off that it is not a "symbol syntax" puzzle as you suggest.

it doesn't look like a novice puzzle book, but the puzzle seems to have archaic cluing, something the NYT puzzle has abandoned for over twenty years now.

Awesome work clue hounds. I'm taking the highlights to the LLL list. If you get any further, I'd sure appreciate someone posting it on the LLL list so I don't have to keep checking back.

That was Gargamel :)

hee, hee:)

Wasn't Gilgamesh one of the Three Wise men?

What 3 wisemen? They are made up....how can they have names?

Didn't see Gilligan.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225

I like how he happened to be on #42 for the shot.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=224

A small bit on Enkidu...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enkidu
http://www.piney.com/Enki.html
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/e/enkidu.html

I'm so happy to see that someone knows the story of Gilgimesh. It seems like no one teaches that stuff any more.

Maybe that's why the writers used a reference like that. They figured only a few people would catch it.

My thoughts: Lock = Gilgamesh Eko = Enkidu.

Wait a sec, is it me or does the word Gilgamesh mess up the other answers... i mean look at the others, it is like something doesnt mesh. Perhaps it is another word, and that is our clue

Here is a possibility no one has mentioned (at least not in this thread -- haven't read the others):

Maybe we are supposed to be noticing all the misspelled words. Maybe they are telling us that despite how wise and intelligent Locke sounds, he's actually extremely poorly educated. Which might explain why he hasn't exactly had a stellar career. This would be an ironic fact: guru who can't spell.

I think with assumed general frequencies of typical xword answers we'd have, intersecting the GILGAMESH answer:

SHARE
SPEND
ACORNS
IMITATIVE
LA?
??IS?SKEET
APERS
ACIDS
MEAGER

Or...instead of imitative,
could it be initiative?
oh, wait....one letter too many. Darn. I thought I had something there. *grin*

Didn't see Gilligan.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225

I like how he happened to be on #42 for the shot.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=224
[/url]


Thanks for the links. It looks to me like Gilgamesh is in different handwriting than most of the rest of the puzzle.
Like someone else said, maybe Locke is just finishing a puzzle that was started by someone else.

Alcons is real

From wikipedia

Alcons means Percentage Articulation Loss of Consonants =%ALcons. This machine measure of intelligibility is closely associated with the TEF sound analyzer. It is computed from measurements of the Direct-to-Reverberant Ratio and the Early Decay Time using a set of correlations defined by SynAudCon, and is specified in percent.See also Intelligibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligibility).
Consonants play a much more significant role in speech intelligibility than vowels. If the consonants are heard clearly, the speech can be understood more easily.
Since %ALcons expresses loss of consonant definition, lower values are associated with greater intelligibility. It is generally assumed that the maximum allowable value for typical paging applications is 10%, assuming that the environment is relatively free of masking noise. For learning environments and voice warning systems, the desired value is 5% or less.
Alcons is the measured percentage of Articulation Loss of Consonants by a listener. % Alcons of 0 indicates perfect clarity and intelligibility with no loss of consonant understanding, while 10% and beyond is growing toward bad intelligibility, and 15% typically is the maximum loss acceptable.

has anyone found it yet???

There once was a fellow named Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh was a phenomenal individual. He was one third man and two thirds god. Due
to his special abilities, Gilgamesh felt he was worthy of everyone's praise, and therefore bossed everyone around. The citizens
of Uruk were displeased with Gilgamesh's behavior and asked the gods for help. The gods responded by sending a man named
Enkidu, who was a double of Gilgamesh. Enkidu lived in the forest with all the animals, and was a wild savage. One day Gilgamesh
sent a hunter and a beautiful woman to the forest, planning to distract Enkidu from the animals. The hunter left, and Enkidu and
the woman became good friends. Enkidu was turned into a man, and he left with the woman for Uruk.

When Enkidu entered the city, the citizens praised him as if he were king. Gilgamesh heard of Enkidu's entrance, and soon
became jealous. When the two men encountered one another, they immediately began to fight. As the fight ended, each stood
up, and each saw them self in the other's eyes. They embraced and immediately became friends. The two men got to know each
other, and then decided to go on a quest seeking fame.


http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~dtmason/enkandgil.htm

kind of like Locke and Eko

My thoughts: Lock = Gilgamesh Eko = Enkidu.


that's what I just wrote

I think Locke was either A) faking when he was doing the crossword or B) he is going crazy because the crossword puzzle had no real words on it. The only "real" word was RANSACKED and also LOG. The rest of it was letters spelling SPIR and ACOLINS. I don't know what this is about.

One of my favorite episodes of Star Trek Next Generation."Darmok"

PICARD
(continuing)
There is a story... A very ancient
one. From Earth. I'll try to
remember...

He attempts to match the Tamarian's "story-telling"
voice.

PICARD
Gilgamesh. Was a king. At Uruk.
He tormented his subjects. He
drove them to anger. They cried
out -- "Give our king a companion.
Spare us his madness."

Picard glances at the Tamarian -- the alien's eyes are
glazed, but rapt.

PICARD
(continuing)
Enkidu. A wildman. Of the
forest. Entered the city. They
fought in the temple. They fought
in the street. Gilgamesh defeated
Enkidu. They became friends.
(beat)
Gilgamesh and Enkidu. At Uruk.

The alien's voice is extremely weak. As if he's just
repeating Picard's words unconsciously.

DATHON
(weak; mimicking)
At Uruk...

Picard can see that Dathon is failing. Picard's voice
becomes almost a whisper, softly making the transition
to his own way of speaking.

PICARD
(quiet)
The new friends went into the
desert, where the Great Bull of
Heaven was killing men by the
hundreds. Enkidu caught it by
the tail, Gilgamesh struck it with
his sword.

DATHON
(barely audible,
mimicking)
Gilgamesh...

PICARD
They were victorious. But Enkidu
fell to the ground. Struck down
by the gods...

The alien closes his eyes... Picard looks at him. The
Tamarian shudders once -- and is completely still.

PICARD
(continuing; a whisper)
And Gilgamesh wept bitter tears,
saying, "He who was my companion
through adventure and hardships,
is gone forever... "

I agree that it seems that only the across words intersecting the word Gilgamesh are wrong. Everything except this word seems to fit the puzzle. Gilgamesh seems to be the correct answer, but it makes everything else wrong. I have looked up the words that intersect, in every possible way, (Google, foreign word search engines, crossword engines, etc.) and these are not words.

Like several others here, I have done a lot of crossword puzzles. So I thought this would be fun to figure out. BUT THIS IS ONE MESSED UP PUZZLE!

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225

Assuming that all the letters except the word Gilgamesh are correct, here's my list of possible corrections so far:
Ghare - Must be either Share or Ohare
siends - Most likely Spends
AcoLns - Has to be Acorns
imgtative - Has to be imitative
LAA - Too many possibilities to guess
ismskeet - Can't tell (yet) how many letters are before the i
eper? - Apers, opera, sperm
a?ids - Acids, alids or amids
paghr - Can't tell how many letters are before the p, but the h is most likely an e


Here's a site I just found to a crossword search engine that helps to fill in missing letters of words:
http://www.oneacross.com/cgi-bin/search_banner.cgi?c0=&p0=1a1T2s2ke

Even using the most likely corrections though, it still doesn't seem to form a word that would fit the answer to the clue.

It's all probably just someting the writers threw in to keep us all occupied for the week. They have us thinking we will reach some Lost epiphany by finding the correct answers when there are no clues to guide us. When in reality, it is just a messed up crossword puzzle with no solution. Yeah, they sucked me into the trap, for a while, but I am backing away quietly now.....

Didn't Shannon have a crossword puzzle book. I think i saw her writing in one in season 1.

i'll try to get a screencap.

Crossword questions
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=224
Answers
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225

TENSE is there as well - no 101

There are a number of "real" words on the crossword puzzle....The one that immediately catches my eye is GHENT, which is a city in Belgium. Also, there was COVET, AGE, TIERS, and GILGAMESH.

If there's a clue that means anything, it's got to be Gilgamesh. 42 down.

Didn't Shannon have a crossword puzzle book. I think i saw her writing in one in season 1.

i'll try to get a screencap.She sure did. She had several different ones. The one we see the best is when she is at the airport and Sayid asks if she will watch his luggage.

Locke's writing "Gilgamesh," one of the Hindu gods. I'm sure someone out there can enlighten us with the connections to "Lost." I also see "Edgar" and "Alain" in the lower right - men's names.

Ok, there's Gilgamesh info in other crossword thread....

Locke's writing "Gilgamesh," one of the Hindu gods. I'm sure someone out there can enlighten us with the connections to "Lost." I also see "Edgar" and "Alain" in the lower right - men's names.

scroll down to post # 10 (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27241)

Alcons is real

From wikipedia

Alcons means Percentage Articulation Loss of Consonants =%ALcons. This machine measure of intelligibility is closely associated with the TEF sound analyzer. It is computed from measurements of the Direct-to-Reverberant Ratio and the Early Decay Time using a set of correlations defined by SynAudCon, and is specified in percent.See also Intelligibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligibility).
Consonants play a much more significant role in speech intelligibility than vowels. If the consonants are heard clearly, the speech can be understood more easily.
Since %ALcons expresses loss of consonant definition, lower values are associated with greater intelligibility. It is generally assumed that the maximum allowable value for typical paging applications is 10%, assuming that the environment is relatively free of masking noise. For learning environments and voice warning systems, the desired value is 5% or less.
Alcons is the measured percentage of Articulation Loss of Consonants by a listener. % Alcons of 0 indicates perfect clarity and intelligibility with no loss of consonant understanding, while 10% and beyond is growing toward bad intelligibility, and 15% typically is the maximum loss acceptable.
I believe the word you're referring to is "acolns" not "alcons", but nice try. :smile:

Yet another reference to the Bible !

><)))*> Everything is there for a reason <*)))><

I think the fact it is No. 42, and written more bold, and doesnt actually fit considering the rest of the answers.....that the writers are just over-emphasizing the importance of the one word.....probably for the majority of viewers that just watch the show without taping it or going online. My wife only noticed it because it was written bolder. A friend said he noticed it because it looked wrong with the other answers.
My theory: its the only word in the crossword to analyse, as a clue to the character of or history of Locke or something to that effect.

Another interesting point on Gilgamesh-
This is one of the oldest recorded stories in the world, originating in ancient Sumeria which is....
Part of ancient Mesopotamia (are we getting a sense of deja-vu from Locke's description of Backgammon from last season?)

Also, going back to that
The story of Gilgamesh, in various Sumerian versions, was originally widely known in the third millennium B.C.
Which would place it about the same time as when Locke said backgammon was invented. (5000 years ago)

:cnfused1: Not sure why I never thought of this before, but it is an odd connection that Sayid is also Iraqi. (Which is of course used to be Mess-opotamia)

*brain hurts*
http://novaonline.nv.cc.va.us/eli/eng251/gilgameshstudy.htm

Other thread on this
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27241

Sam G - excellent recall of one of my favorite TNG episodes! Makes me wish I could schedule a vacation at Tanagra!

dylan1200 - I agree... the simplest explanation is that somehow, Gilgamesh and Locke are connected. The other words (mispelled or not) are just a bucket of red herrings.

O_O

They owe me money for using my Username!!

lol.. I hope we will see "Soad" in the next episode lol.

LOL Gilga-
I burst out laughing when I saw that on the screen - thought of you.
At the very least I think you get out of button duty and get to break a few of Dr Candle's rules.

I feel violated :(

I feel violated :(

Perhaps you will get royalty checks. :biggrin:

On a side note ... I wouldn't have thought a mention in a crossword puzzle would be enough to make a flasher feel violated? :undecide:

Project Flasher is a pun Dr. Candle made up because of my understanding of Flash, I like to keep my clothes on public,

Ah, thanks for the distinction - big difference. :biggrin:

It is almost like Fate, you join the Fuselage and Voila, your name appears in Lost.
Who says TPTB don't read this...;)

Maybe so, you notice how the Dr is out for the time being shortly after I entered the project section, probably off making the crossword :) he'll be back very soon acting innocent.

Words that appear:

Edgar
Alain (french)
Tiers
Covet
Age
Ete (summer in french)
Ransacked
Tuner
Ghent (Belgian Port)
Gilgamesh
Me
Amore (love in french)
Tense
Iona (island in Scotland)
Eyelid (in latin)
Its
Log
Somas (intoxicating plant juice - Indian)
Cicer

Non-Words:

Ghare
Acolins
Imgtative

I think the crossword has some significance, but let's not over analyze something to death again.

Cheers

The problem with Ghent being a Belgian port is its not on the coast.

Possible meanings for asids, WW2 movie (hyph. word), pagr, and Iona (Macbeth place) . . .


Unless the rest of the words are unimportant and made-up, the word at the bottom of 42 down HAS to be "aSids". I thought at first this was a Canadian, English, or other non-American spelling of the word "acids", but I found only one reference to that online:

asids (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:wdxknljvJwgJ:www.nioch.nsc.ru/mirrors/press/chemwood/volume1/n2/stat2.en.html+asids&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)



WHOA!! What's this? ASIDS (http://www.goodshare.org/asids.htm) (underlining done by me)

ASIDS in collaborative structures
(acute systems-inquiry deficiency syndrome)

january 19th, 1998

"this note reflects on how individuals in collaborative situations (teams, organizations, relationships), as a result of deficient system inquiry practices, expose themselves to pathologies which erode their perceptual capabilities. there is a strong analogy here between today's systems' inquiry/management practice and pre-pasteur medical practice; the latter being guided by the theory of in-situ 'spontaneous generation' of infection rather than bacterial 'network' and the former being guided by 'euclidian' closed system theories rather than by non-euclidian 'evolutionary flow'.


incomplete understanding of complex systems and the evolutionary consequences of our interactions with such systems can give rise to pathologies which erode our pattern recognition abilities. the ability to recognize patterns characterizing complex system behaviors is vital to our management or 'steering' of these systems. incompleteness in understanding systems behaviors also leads to the development of problem-solving approaches which exacerbate rather than relieve the pathologies --- a vicious cycle."


This is a bit above my head, but it seems to be some kind of syndrome that may affect groups like ours, leading to a "vicious cycle"? As in some of the problems they face? Or perhaps something everyone on the island is facing?


~ ~ ~

Also found a possible contender for #40 down, a hyphenated word - the name of a World War II movie - the only one I found was Catch-22 (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0065528/). Here's a brief synopsis:

"A bombardier in World War II tries desperately to escape the insanity of the war. However, sometimes insanity is the only sane way cope with a crazy situation. Catch-22 is a parody of a "military mentality" and of a bureaucratic society in general."

While it makes a statement about society, don't know that it's related to the society in LOST - they're not exactly military, NOR bureaucratic.

~ ~ ~

And if there IS an #84 across, it would be "paghr", which turns out to be the Klingon pronounciation of the number zero!! :24:

Paghr (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:fS86W7dmDg8J:members.aol.com/jpklingon/allyouneed.html+paghr&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

~ ~ ~

Iona, #36 down, was the "Macbeth place" as listed in the crossword puzzle. Iona appears to be an island, though I don't know if that in itself is significant to the play. What is of interest are the recurring motifs in Macbeth:


Wikipedia: Macbeth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbeth) Ambition, betrayal, children, chaos & indecision, conflict & opposition . . . common themes in many dramas - but do any of these relate directly to LOST?

When we see Locke filling in the crossword puzzle, the letters "GILG_ME_H" are already filled in. We see him fill in "A" and then "S". Aside from the inconsistencies in the puzzle answers...

The last 5 letters of "Gilgamesh" are "AMESH". Could be an anagram for "SHAME", alluding to Ana's issues and/or Sayid's issues?

"AMESH" is also an acronym for an environmental methodolgy...connection to Dharma Project?
web.idrc.ca/en/ev-5578-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html
tokyo-ame.jwa.or.jp/en/amesh.html


"Amesh" is also a proper name.

Searching does bring up some links about Persia (now Iran) and the Zoroastrian religion and calendar. I know Sayid is Iraqi, but could this be related?

Has anyone checked out the Crossword Puzzle that Locke was doing in the hatch??

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=224
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225

Anyone have any idea??

Maybe so, you notice how the Dr is out for the time being shortly after I entered the project section, probably off making the crossword :) he'll be back very soon acting innocent.



Good point. Verrrrry suspicious.
I think you may have gotten the last badge. I've been waiting a week for mine.
Oh wait, I think we might be breaking one of Dr Candle's rules --- Shhhhhhhh.:32:

*thinking.... wait you join the project and Dr Candle disappears, hmmm verrrry suspicious:lookarn: (hopes Gilgamesh didn't have the dr 'disappeared' )*

Yes but he was filling in the answer for "Enkidi's friend" (not sure about Enkidi, but Enki was the God of Wisdom) - and the Epic of Gilgamesh is among the first myths of the Sumerians (they also created his favorite game, backgammon)...

wait, so it was a multilingual crossword they were doing? You had to know french, latin, and english to complete it. that's weird.

My thoughts: Lock = Gilgamesh Eko = Enkidu.

agreed.

This is the word he was filling in when Eko entered. Locke is also fascinated with ancient Sumer.

i know it fits but are you sure Gilgamesh is right? i mean, it doesnt make any of the other words work....

Has anyone checked out the Crossword Puzzle that Locke was doing in the hatch??

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=224
http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225

Anyone have any idea??Thanks for the screen caps. That's what been discussed the last few pages.

The other thing that is subtle Shannon seemed to like doing word puzzels. Locke would find out about Shannons death when he had been doing a crossword puzzle, could it have been Shannon's crossword book?

Try replacing GILGAMESH with SCRIPTURE and see what you get.

Anyone know a link to an "incomplete word" dictionary search site?

http://oneacross.com/

What 3 wisemen? They are made up....how can they have names?

Not made up. The bible mentions Magi that came to see the infant Jesus. However, it doesn't mention that there was 3 of them...only the 3 gifts that were brought. I believe there is another book out there (don't know the title) that is a fiction work based on these men.

Exactly my thought...it could have been Shannon's...

Try replacing GILGAMESH with SCRIPTURE and see what you get.


GOOD CATCH!

it certainly seems to fit!


But why ?

Try replacing GILGAMESH with SCRIPTURE and see what you get.

Nice job! What the heck can this mean?! Apart from the fact that we recently saw Eko carving scripture on his stick. But it doesn't seem to tell us anything does it?

This show...oi!!

Try replacing GILGAMESH with SCRIPTURE and see what you get.

Wow awesome catch!!!!!!!!!!!

i think this is a definite clue. i mean they are linking Locke and Ecko through the Gilgamesh comment and i think showing us the Ecko is a holy man that turns to scripture.

Scripture fits insead of Gligamesh

When we see Locke filling in the crossword puzzle, the letters "GILG_ME_H" are already filled in. We see him fill in "A" and then "S". Aside from the inconsistencies in the puzzle answers...

The last 5 letters of "Gilgamesh" are "AMESH". Could be an anagram for "SHAME", alluding to Ana's issues and/or Sayid's issues?

"AMESH" is also an acronym for an environmental methodolgy...connection to Dharma Project?
web.idrc.ca/en/ev-5578-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html (http://web.idrc.ca/en/ev-5578-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html)
tokyo-ame.jwa.or.jp/en/amesh.html (http://tokyo-ame.jwa.or.jp/en/amesh.html)


"Amesh" is also a proper name.

Searching does bring up some links about Persia (now Iran) and the Zoroastrian religion and calendar. I know Sayid is Iraqi, but could this be related?


oh god, please dont look into this that much, get some sleep.

oh god, please dont look into this that much, get some sleep.

Gilgamesh is as relevant as backgammon, for the same reasons...

http://oneacross.com/
Thanks...that helps if you have a lot of clues, which we don't..we have a lot of answers..do you know any substring, partial word generic search sites?

sledge_web, Mr. Wicked, zstrata...how does "SCRIPTURE" work with the crossing
words? It gives us:

SHARE
SCEND (it's a word)
ACORNS
IMITATIVE
LAP
?ISTSKEET ???????
UPERS (residents of Upper Peninsula of Michigan)
ARIDS ??????? not a word
?AGER could be "meager"

We really can't be sure til we see more of the clues, right? Although I do see the
relevance of "SCRIPTURE"...

And thanks for the support, dmaprophet. This show is obviously full of clues, foreshadowing and hidden meanings and it's fun to look for them.

oh god, please dont look into this that much, get some sleep.
You know, have there been any "LOST" related deaths - someday you're going to see a sad piece in the newspaper about a guy who spontaneously combusted at his computer while looking at screencap after screencap, seeing if the mailman in Kate’s flashback was the same as the cardiologist in Jack’s flashback. Or maybe a case of fatal sleep deprivation after hours upon hours of trying to figure out an anagram for “Marvin Candle.”

Be careful, folks. :grin:

TRoss...40 Down is off the screen though, we can't see it on the puzzle.

Someone here is actually looking for the puzzle in Real Life. That would help a lot!

I still think they showed Locke filling in "A" and "S" for a reason...normally one would fill in all the letters from top to bottom, unless one was filling in the crossing words. "gilgAMESH"...AMESH=SHAME. Seems like what this episode was about (Ana's and Sayid's) and how they were having a hard time dealing with it.

Didn't Shannon have a crossword puzzle book. I think i saw her writing in one in season 1.

i'll try to get a screencap.

She sure did. She had several different ones. The one we see the best is when she is at the airport and Sayid asks if she will watch his luggage.

Thanks for the screen caps. That's what been discussed the last few pages.

The other thing that is subtle Shannon seemed to like doing word puzzels. Locke would find out about Shannons death when he had been doing a crossword puzzle, could it have been Shannon's crossword book?

Shannon's crossword book was the first thing I flashed to watching Locke do the puzzle. He could have found it and taken it to the hatch as something to do to pass the time between pushing the button. Also, if he was trying to finish a puzzle Shannon had started (I've seen someone say the handwriting is different or some of the ink looks faded?) it wouldn't surprise me if there were some inconsistancies in the puzzle. (Shannon never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, you know?)

I think the crossword puzzle was hacked by the show's prop director-dude only to call attention to Gilgamesh and for no other reason. In other words, there are no easter eggs or clues to be found here.

If you look at the original screencap (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225), you'll see "led" should have been numbered 98-down but it was not. Why? Because "spir" (69-down) was originally connected to "led" to form the word "spiraled"... the black square was put there by the prop director-dude and does not belong on the original version.

This is what I think the original (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/783/crosswordunhacked0yv.jpg) version of the crossword puzzle looked like...

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=469&pos=676 This is the book Shannon had, not a crossword book but it looks like she had another book under it.

Goddessblue, As to Shannon not seeming to be the (Shannon never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, you know?) I think Shannon was a lot smarter then we all realized.

TRoss...40 Down is off the screen though, we can't see it on the puzzle.

That is correct. It is found here: 40 down (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=224)

It is one of the crossword puzzle clues.

It is interesting that in all the lists of WWII movies, only one was hyphenated.


jocko, you may be right, a lot of these words just make no sense, or seem like a real stretch.

I like the idea of the word being Scripture. Seems to make sense with the across words better.

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=469&pos=676 This is the book Shannon had, not a crossword book but it looks like she had another book under it.

Goddessblue, As to Shannon not seeming to be the (Shannon never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer, you know?) I think Shannon was a lot smarter then we all realized.
Shannon was exepted into Julliard right you need to more than just a giid dancer to go to that school your academics need to be up there to. So she had to of been smart not just talented. (At least I think so) I think she was nieve so she came off lacking in the brains department.
Some one at another site brought up a circle of life theroy (not going threw the whole thing) but made the point that Shannon is dead and now and how strange is it at the same time Locke decided to take up doing her puzzles.

Shannon is dead and now and how strange is it at the same time Locke decided to take up doing her puzzles.
Maybe he's been doing the puzzles all along, and this is just the first time it's been shown. I think it was shown specifically for the clue it held.

Shannon was exepted into Julliard right you need to more than just a giid dancer to go to that school your academics need to be up there to. So she had to of been smart not just talented. (At least I think so) I think she was nieve so she came off lacking in the brains department.
Some one at another site brought up a circle of life theroy (not going threw the whole thing) but made the point that Shannon is dead and now and how strange is it at the same time Locke decided to take up doing her puzzles.

Not getting technical -- but it was the Martha Graham Dance Company, not Juliard. :kiss:

Which is a real dance company http://www.marthagrahamdance.org/

which if you ask me, still means she's smarter than most gave her credit for.

Not getting technical -- but it was the Martha Graham Dance Company, not Juliard. :kiss:

Which is a real dance company http://www.marthagrahamdance.org/

which if you ask me, still means she's smarter than most gave her credit for.

Doink...........Thanx:biggrin: ooppss Still like you said she had to have some brains.:smile:

No doink, it's a understandable mistake - everyone is more familiar with Juliard than Martha.....oh, another coinky dink Martha - Sam Toome's wifes name

Back to Shannon, I never really saw her as "smart" until that ep. It takes work and hard work at that. To even be considered. She must have totally threw herself into dance if she was dabbling in interior design before that.

Which is a real dance company http://www.marthagrahamdance.org/

which if you ask me, still means she's smarter than most gave her credit for.
Nonetheless, Shannon didn't really have a ballet dancer's body...wasn't she too tall? And she didn't have the muscular development, especially in the legs, to portray a dancer believably. I miss the character though. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Nonetheless, Shannon didn't really have a ballet dancer's body...wasn't she too tall? And she didn't have the muscular development, especially in the legs, to portray a dancer believably. I miss the character though. Please correct me if I'm wrong...
Well, 2 famous female dancers over 6 feet come to mind - Maria Tallchief and Judith Jamison.

She may not have had a ballerina's body, but Martha Graham is more avant guarde (?) than the typical ballet company.

Not getting technical -- but it was the Martha Graham Dance Company, not Juliard. :kiss:

Which is a real dance company http://www.marthagrahamdance.org/

which if you ask me, still means she's smarter than most gave her credit for.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, and will fully admit to being wrong. Does it take "book smarts" to get into the Martha Graham Dance Company, and not just dancing talent? If so, I will stand corrected. I was just my opinion that I wouldn't expect Shannon to get clues that were in other languages, WW questions, etc.

First give away that Shannon was smarter than given credit for, she read. We know from one of the magazines she was reading that it wasn't Vogue, Cosmo, Us or any of those magazines because of the tecchnical advertisements that were in it. I can tell you if she lived in LA and her family had any money, she went to private school. That doesn't mean she learned anything there but the chances were offered. When she was working on the translation of Danielle's maps, we see what her problem was, she was never validated for learning anything so she always gave up before she could fail. She was even smarter than she knew. It's amazing what your brain will retain even when you are not trying to learn anything. I think Sayid validated her so she tried harder to please him.

http://www.marthagrahamdance.org/school/sub_intens_programs.php#body
I didn't find anything in interships but she did beat out 3000 other people to get the internship.

Booksmarts are not exactly what I think we were getting at. To learn and retain. Like Sam says. She has/had the potential. Don't you think math and science come into play when learning dance?

when I say science, I mean body science not geology etc.

First give away that Shannon was smarter than given credit for, she read. We know from one of the magazines she was reading that it wasn't Vogue, Cosmo, Us or any of those magazines because of the tecchnical advertisements that were in it. I can tell you if she lived in LA and her family had any money, she went to private school. That doesn't mean she learned anything there but the chances were offered. When she was working on the translation of Danielle's maps, we see what her problem was, she was never validated for learning anything so she always gave up before she could fail. She was even smarter than she knew. It's amazing what your brain will retain even when you are not trying to learn anything. I think Sayid validated her so she tried harder to please him.

When are you refering to Shannon reading a magazine? On the beach, it could have been one found in the wreckage. As a reader, I would be reading anything at that point during down time, lol, even airline magazines, a hot rod mag found on the beach, etc. (Not knocking hot rod mags, I'm just more of a Vanity Fair type of gal. ;) ) But I can understand this, many Lostaways and viewers were surprised by Sawyer being a bibliophile, reading any books that he found. Wouldn't be expected by his "redneck" character.

That said, I can completely agree with what you're saying here. Especially that last part. Sayid did encourage her and I think that made her have more confindence in her abilities/intelligence. And because of that we began to see an emergence in her character. Also, with a step-mother like Sabrina, who wouldn't walk away with a warped view of oneself?

Now, ummm, wasn't this thread about the puzzle? ;)

Oh! I also like the idea Scripture being the word!

I know wikipedia is not as reliable but just looking at what Martha Graham did go through -- I'd say she was one smart cookie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Graham

I wasn't sure what to think about the "wrong answers" to the other clues. I looked again at the screencap (it was actually sledgeweb's comment about "scripture" replacing "gilgamesh" that got me to look--more on that in a minute). What I noticed when I looked this time was this: below "gilgamesh" is the word "ate" (97 down), next to it is the word "led". "led" should have the number 98 on it indicating 98 down, but it doesn't. this leads me to believe that the rest of the puzzle doesn't matter, and that it was created specifically for the show. I think the only clue we need to concern ourselves with is 42 down.

Also, typically though not always, crossword puzzles are symmetrical. That is when divided in half, the two halves are either mirror or reverse images of each other top to bottom or side to side. This puzzle is not. Another reason I think it was created for our benefit.

Now to "scripture" instead of "gilgamesh". Not only does "scripture" not answer the clue "Enkidu's Friend", but it doesn't make the across words correct--at least, not all of them. "UPER?" does not become any word known in a crossword puzzle or scrabble dictionary. I also was unable to find it in an unabridged dictionary. And I still don't know what "??istkeet" would be (there are at least 2 letter before "iskeet". To my knowledge "arids" is not a word (arid, yes, arids, no), nor is "??pager" (again, there are at least 2 letters before "pager").

Finally, what I did find interesting (which means it probably means nothing, given my track record), is the partial clue we see next to 42 down: "African". Don't know that it means anything at all. Perhaps just another "LOST" coincidence...

I think the crossword puzzle was hacked by the show's prop director-dude only to call attention to Gilgamesh and for no other reason. In other words, there are no easter eggs or clues to be found here.

If you look at the original screencap (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225), you'll see "led" should have been numbered 98-down but it was not. Why? Because "spir" (69-down) was originally connected to "led" to form the word "spiraled"... the black square was put there by the prop director-dude and does not belong on the original version.

This is what I think the original (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/783/crosswordunhacked0yv.jpg) version of the crossword puzzle looked like...

Great job, Jocko!!! Those three squares indeed were the ones altered by the prop folks. Now here's the rest of your original version:
Add one column on the far left. Add four more columns on the far right. And add one more row across the top. The puzzle then has 19 rows and 19 columns, with the A in "imitative" (across) and "ransacked" (down) in the center sqiuare. Symmetry and numeric consistency can then be achieved by blackening the proper squares.

Bottom line: The puzzle was altered, and the rest of the clues/answers - other than 42 Down = Gilgamesh - probably are meaningless to the Lost plot.

I think the crossword puzzle was hacked by the show's prop director-dude only to call attention to Gilgamesh and for no other reason. In other words, there are no easter eggs or clues to be found here.

If you look at the original screencap (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225), you'll see "led" should have been numbered 98-down but it was not. Why? Because "spir" (69-down) was originally connected to "led" to form the word "spiraled"... the black square was put there by the prop director-dude and does not belong on the original version.

This is what I think the original (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/783/crosswordunhacked0yv.jpg) version of the crossword puzzle looked like...

evidentally, i hadn't read all the posts before my post above.:redface: nice work, jocko!

"Alain" is significant if you look at it from a Stephen King perspective (though not The Stand) this time it is "The Dark Tower" (which fits in someways with the story thus far). Anyways, here is a quote about Alain:

“He had no urge to kill his own. But ha had done it before, hadn’t he? Yes. Had not Alain himself, one of his sworn brothers, died under Roland’s and Cuthbert’s own smoking guns?”

Ana/Shannon connection, and also possibly foreshadowing something with Eko/Jack/Locke or any other combination.

Here is thedarktower.net sketch of Alain Johns:

Boyhood friend of Roland and fellow gunslinger Appears In: The Drawing of the Three, The Wastelands, Wizard and Glass, Wolves of the Calla, Song of Susannah
Alain Johns was one of Roland's closest friends. He accompanied Roland and Cuthbert to Mejis in Wizard and Glass, and joined Roland in his quest for the Dark Tower. He is credited with having "the touch" and is often compared with Jake in Roland's new ka-tet. Alain was mistakenly killed by Roland and Cuthbert at Jericho Hill. Alain's father was "Burning" Chris Johns.

"The touch?" Walt?

Interestingly enough, there is a famous Harlem Renaissance Artist/Philosopher named Alain Leroy Locke.

-Bagua

"Alain" is significant if you look at it from a Stephen King perspective (though not The Stand) this time it is "The Dark Tower" (which fits in someways with the story thus far).-Bagua


Argh, you totally beat me to it!

Alain is also described as large(r) and quiet(er). One could reach and compare him to a certain new character.

Add one column on the far left. Add four more columns on the far right. And add one more row across the top. The puzzle then has 19 rows and 19 columns, with the A in "imitative" (across) and "ransacked" (down) in the center sqiuare. Symmetry and numeric consistency can then be achieved by blackening the proper squares.

Bottom line: The puzzle was altered, and the rest of the clues/answers - other than 42 Down = Gilgamesh - probably are meaningless to the Lost plot.

totally agree - and kinda disappointed as well. I was really hoping for some easter eggs.

for anyone who's still interested, this (http://www.hawkandtomfiles.com/images/lostcrossword6.gif) is probably the most complete version of the "unadulterated" crossword puzzle.

amino
cheesecake umm

ok now I just read your latest post and went to the site you provided. Good job. I love crosswrod puzzles. Thank you jocko and furi16.

Interesting, jocko...how did you solve this? If possible can you share what your steps were?

I got the same layout as Jocko, but i guessed TRYLINE instead of SKYLINE.

With EMUS = Australian flightless birds
ELLE, Australian supermodel
TRYLINE, Scoring marker in rugby
and VAUGHAN, English cricket captain.

It would point to it being a crossword of australian origin. Purchased before the flight.

Millions of dollars on getting plane fuselage on a beach. 80 cent black marker to adjust a crossword puzzle? Im not being literal but Id be really disappointed in the show just taking an existing format and changing it with some extra blacked out pieces etc.
Not to shoot down the great skills of Jocko and related but making up thier own crossword to actually fit thier parameters would seem a simple task for the creators of lost. If they arent getting that us the fans are a fairly intelligent bunch and picking every move they make by now..........

By the way...I think 69 down 'spir' is wrong and if someone can fit something to give us a U at the start of 73 across we could have scripture instead of gilgamesh. It was a last minute thought lol.

Interesting, jocko...how did you solve this? If possible can you share what your steps were?

I can't claim sole credit - it was a collaborative effort with a bunch of folks at 4815162342.com... the "final" composition was done by Tom Steele. When it was discovered that "led" was not numbered correctly, we knew something was wonkers with that puzzle. And once we stopped struggling to make "gilgamesh" fit the grid, the easy part was coming up with words that *would* fit.

And I agree to an extent with dylan_1200; the disappointing part is that the show's writers or whomever didn't make the puzzle more clever, especially knowing with 100% certaintly that it would be obsessed over by its fans. It was a missed opportunity to add easter eggs or other clues.

Thanks jocko. But I don't see how we can be sure it's what they meant to convey, unless we get all the clues for the answers. Coming up with words to fit in doesn't seem like enough. Unless I'm missing something, which is very possible.

Please don't get me wrong...I'm not trashing your results or your hard work. It's just that I wonder if there's a purpose for the puzzle being presented the way it was.

Not the first time that we've had one thing in 2 different handwritings. Claire diaries were clearly written in 2 different hands. There's a thread in the LOST Library.

Totally off topicish:

hmmm Balthazar as one of the wisemans names... ha ha reminded me of Cole out of charmed by the name a bElthazOr ... i think thats how you spell it but thats how they say it :)


All thise god stuff is confussing me so I really dont know what to say about the crossword puzzle but I will look at it closer :)

Following up on Jocko's comments, it was really a collaborative effort on the part of not only Jocko and the folks at 4815162342, but Beagle1962 and several others here at the 'lage.

When I first started tearing into the puzzle, I was unable to come up with a matrix that was symmetric with respect to the black squares. That made me begin to suspect that someone may have altered the thing. I also noticed a 2-letter answer on the Lost version (90 across - ME), which along with asymmetry is a no-no. (Proper crosswords contain at least 3 letters in all answers.) Beagle1962 also noted the lack of symmetery, and I think was the first to notice that 98 down should have been labeled as such, but wasn't. Aha - busted! TPTB cheated by changing the layout of the puzzle.

Then Jocko presented his (their) findings here, showing which 3 squares had been altered. I then took that and built a layout that I described above. I let Jocko redo his graphic of the original puzzle from that description. Now you have the rest of the story.

I agree that this is a bit disappointing. They know we're gonna tear this stuff up and figure it out. They should know that some of us Lost junkies are also crossword junkies. But I'm willing to forgive them for this relatively minor inconsistency. After all, this board worked like it should, with posters providing clues that other posters then ran with, and it all led to a team effort and a loose end being tied - case closed. And I had a little extracurricular fun with it, and am a bit proud that we figured this one out in only a couple days.

Damon, JJ, Carlton, et al. - you know, you've created a real monster here! We're watching .......:biggrin:

LOST junkie and crossword puzzle junkie, here here. I'm sure this is not the first time JJ, Carlton, Damon, et al have been sweetly chastised by us. I've said it before and I'll say it again...they are learning a great deal from us here at the forum they have set up for us....

Wonderful collaberation on the puzzle, fellow posters, just wonderful and thank you. Being a bit OCD it really bothers me not to be able to finish this puzzle. yikes!

Wow you guys are amazing.

Sam G...true!

Furi161...thanks for the work and additional info on the puzzle solution!

I think that the puzzle inconsistencies were deliberate, to call attention, and that the puzzle is symbolic of what's going on in the story and possibly foreshadowing what's to come. Since "GILGAMESH" fits the clue, but not the puzzle, maybe it means that someone does not fit in and is in conflict with other characters. In addition, maybe things are not what they seem to be at first glance. Maybe Gilgamesh=Ana.

It really doesn't matter, IMHO, who's "right" about the meaning of the puzzle. So much is open to interpretation, anyway, and there are so many possibilities. I suspect that if we asked TPTB about it, red herring or not, they would not reveal very much, yet.

I enjoy the discussions and speculations, and is it Wednesday yet?:biggrin:

Wow you guys are amazing.

So is your avatar!!

I'm starting to think I may have erred in reminding TPTB that we're watching their every move. That only gives them more incentive to bombard us with red herrings!

Oh well - the game's afoot! But as far as I'm concerned, it just makes the journey all that much more fun! :biggrin:

This is the crossword puzzle I found.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c200/doncunney/crossword.gif

wait, so it was a multilingual crossword they were doing? You had to know french, latin, and english to complete it. that's weird. That's not so strange. I've done quite a few puzzles that required a couple of words from foreign languages. Ete (French for 'summer) is a fairly common clue, and latin phrases aren't uncommon (quid pro quo, carpe diem, et tu, etc.) in a crossword.

Try replacing GILGAMESH with SCRIPTURE and see what you get.

Others have already posted to this, and I have to agree with them. I don't see the word scripture working right. It has the right amount of letters, yes, but confuses the last four crossing lines, and also is not Enkidu's friend. I don't remember in any of the links posted here and elsewhere a part of the story of Enkidu and Gilgamesh that included Enkidu writing, or following scriptures. Regardless it wouldn't fit because that story PREDATES the Bible. I guess you could make an argument for an extremely tenuous connection if scriptures is taken to mean vedic, or sumerian scriptures... However, the other clues are not so 'ambiguous.'

If you look at the original screencap (http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=820&pos=225), you'll see "led" should have been numbered 98-down but it was not. Why? Because "spir" (69-down) was originally connected to "led" to form the word "spiraled"... the black square was put there by the prop director-dude and does not belong on the original version.

This is what I think the original (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/783/crosswordunhacked0yv.jpg) version of the crossword puzzle looked like...

Thanks for posting that! Makes sense now... wish they'd come up with their own crossword puzzle though. As bright as the writers are, and knowing how obsessed the fanbase is (self included) seems they could've put a little more effort in it.

Perhaps the errors are to distract us from Gilgamesh, but that's the only word that stands out to me.

Not wanting to scroll through all of this again, did you guys see Javi's response here? http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27443 not sure if this will help your discussion or not.

I think that the puzzle inconsistencies were deliberate, to call attention, and that the puzzle is symbolic of what's going on in the story and possibly foreshadowing what's to come. Since "GILGAMESH" fits the clue, but not the puzzle, maybe it means that someone does not fit in and is in conflict with other characters. In addition, maybe things are not what they seem to be at first glance. Maybe Gilgamesh=Ana.

Interpreting the puzzle metaphorically hadn't occurred to me, but we could make some interesting observations about it that way... But I would think that it would be more the opposite, that someone DOES fit, and the rest do not--that the rest much change to fit. The puzzle is based on clues, and Gilgamesh fits the clue, it is the rest of the 'answers' have to be revised using the correct answer of Gilgamesh.

Since Locke is the one doing the puzzle I'm more inlcined to believe (if the puzzle is also a metaphor) that it would be referring to him and possibly Eko.

It really doesn't matter, IMHO, who's "right" about the meaning of the puzzle. So much is open to interpretation, anyway, and there are so many possibilities. I suspect that if we asked TPTB about it, red herring or not, they would not reveal very much, yet.

Looks like you're right about that. See car 88's post, I read it three times. I've been known to read into things, but it seems that he never explicitly says whether the rest of the crossword is important or not. He also doesn't admit that this crossword is a goof. The only thing he really admits is that the clue was supposed to covey "Enkidu's Friend" which it does.

Not wanting to scroll through all of this again, did you guys see Javi's response here? http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27443 not sure if this will help your discussion or not.

TRoss...40 Down is off the screen though, we can't see it on the puzzle.

Someone here is actually looking for the puzzle in Real Life. That would help a lot!

I still think they showed Locke filling in "A" and "S" for a reason...normally one would fill in all the letters from top to bottom, unless one was filling in the crossing words. "gilgAMESH"...AMESH=SHAME. Seems like what this episode was about (Ana's and Sayid's) and how they were having a hard time dealing with it.

even if it was, there's still no real signifance to that.

I just would have hated it, if you guys weren't aware of what he said and spun your wheels for nothing for weeks. I hope it helps.

Gilgamesh is an epic poem about a king that pursues eternal life, inmortality... like one of the projects of the hanso foundation "life extension project"...

malmeyda...

the latin lostie

Not wanting to scroll through all of this again, did you guys see Javi's response here? http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=27443 not sure if this will help your discussion or not.

so enkidu's friend = gilgamesh. that's all. bummers.
double bummers that rosecm knew the correct answer hours before I posted what I thought was the solution - if I'd have read that it would have saved me a few wasted hours! :ohwell:

so enkidu's friend = gilgamesh. that's all. bummers.
double bummers that rosecm knew the correct answer hours before I posted what I thought was the solution - if I'd have read that it would have saved me a few wasted hours! :ohwell:But he also said he couldn't comment on the puzzle. There's quite a bit of information that was gathered because everyone looked so closely. It can't hurt to use your brain, once it has a puzzle it usually tries to solve it even if you don't want to. That's why you wake up with answers in the morning. We're all the wiser.

Did you consider this:
Some prop guy made a REAL lousy job this time.
Wake up guys.
They keep insisting that they are only human and human make mistakes.
Did you read Javi's answer to continuity errors in general, and giving an example by comparing them to what happens on Enterprise D bridge between seasons? That was so lame! I am so disappointed, I cannot even begin to describe.
From Javi's answer (to the question about the crossword):
"but the first order of business is the narative cohesion"
Are you convinced?
I am not!
It's much worse, they are becoming sloppy. It will only begin to improve when the rating will drop, sharply, and heads start falling off....

Actually, I think his point is made. Javi says, hey we wanted you to see the one word -- and we did -- we've been discussing it. It was some of us that started breaking apart all the fluff that started this issue. So there's some of you that are pissed because the prop guy didn't make a whole freakin puzzle with 42 clues! Give me and the prop guy a break.

Actually, I think his point is made. Javi says, hey we wanted you to see the one word -- and we did -- we've been discussing it. It was some of us that started breaking apart all the fluff that started this issue. So there's some of you that are pissed because the prop guy didn't make a whole freakin puzzle with 42 clues! Give me and the prop guy a break.
I am sorry, I will not give the guy a break, I already gave them enough breaks when they switched the lamp, the record player, the lottery ticket, Boon's shirt...should I go on?

It's kind of scary when you take a sec and sit back and really read what every one is in such a huff about. That's all I was saying.....I hope you all think I'm not jumpin on anyone in particular. I do think sometimes (myself included) we get so wrapped up in all of it, we lose site of what fun it is. But hey, I'm all for tearin apart clothing and jewlery and how many times the gun was fired and was the chair to the left or the right and was it blue or wait it was black and the table is white! :biggrin:

the clue was "enkidu's friend", the answer was "gilgamesh. "gilgamesh" is an epic poem. btw, the clue number was no.42....4 8 15 16 23 42. i think gilgamesh is really a clue...

Actually, I think his point is made. Javi says, hey we wanted you to see the one word -- and we did -- we've been discussing it. It was some of us that started breaking apart all the fluff that started this issue. So there's some of you that are pissed because the prop guy didn't make a whole freakin puzzle with 42 clues! Give me and the prop guy a break.

hear! hear!

it gets a bit old when all one reads are complaints about this or that (when you check out some people's posts/threads, that's all they ever have to say "they didn't blah,blah,blah" or "it should have been blah,blah,blah").

whether you would like to believe it or not, this show is no different than any other on tv. watch tv--any show--from week to week and there are continuity issues. sad to say, the creators and crew of this show are no more infallible than you or i. it just so happens that the viewers of this show (me included) have taken it upon themselves to look for deeper meaning in everything.

jeeeez, pull the stick out, will ya (it can't be comfortable....)? either don't watch the show or quit punishing the rest of us because you insist on perfection! most of us are just enjoying the ride....

Well put as well Beagle. I am all for the deep mysteries. If they are there.

ExistentialAngel...thanks for your input on the puzzle...it's always intriguing to hear
different interpretations. My thinking was that since the puzzle was "a mess", and Gilgamesh was consumed with power and overthrown by his people (paraphrasing, not an expert on this epic), that it represents Ana and what was shown about her in this epi.

Also Locke for the connection to Mesopotamia (sp) and it could even be a clue to the
possibility that something ancient is at the core of (some of) the mysteries on Island.
It could also represent the pre-crash interconnection of many of the characters...

LOCKE THE HATCH, Ana's seat was in row 42. (corrected)

Like I said before, so many possibilities, and not mutually exclusive either. Even if none of these associations were intended by the writers/prop people, the puzzle got us thinking and resulted in some good discussion and speculation.

Even Javi's answer could be interpreted in more than way!

This whole thing reminds me of song lyrics, and how various individuals interpret the
same song differently. And if you ask the song's writer, it might turn out to be something else instead.

Anyway, I like the puzzle.:biggrin:

Did you consider this:
Some prop guy made a REAL lousy job this time.
Wake up guys.
They keep insisting that they are only human and human make mistakes.
Did you read Javi's answer to continuity errors in general, and giving an example by comparing them to what happens on Enterprise D bridge between seasons? That was so lame! I am so disappointed, I cannot even begin to describe.
From Javi's answer (to the question about the crossword):
"but the first order of business is the narative cohesion"
Are you convinced?
I am not!
It's much worse, they are becoming sloppy. It will only begin to improve when the rating will drop, sharply, and heads start falling off....

All I have to say is .... wow.

I was going to ask if you really REALLY thought that actual people were sitting at home watching the show and noting these AMAZINGLY NIT-PICKY, only noticeable in freeze-frame details and actually getting so upset that they would stop watching the show. I was going to ask that until I realized the answer was YES, there IS someone sitting at home getting their panties all in a knot over these incredibly nit-picky details. At least ONE person, anyway. And I don't think you turning off your TV is going to cause ratings to drop.

wow.


I am sorry, I will not give the guy a break, I already gave them enough breaks when they switched the lamp, the record player, the lottery ticket, Boon's shirt...should I go on?

again... wow.

I mean, really... this is important enough and significant enough that it has totally destroyed your enjoyment of the show? For real? You aren't just playing a character and doing it just to rile people up?

Have you ever watched a TV show before? A movie? Read a book? And you haven't found any other errors in any other entertainment medium?

wow...

They have medicine for this now, you know, so you don't have to suffer in public like this...

All I have to say is .... wow.

I was going to ask if you really REALLY thought that actual people were sitting at home watching the show and noting these AMAZINGLY NIT-PICKY, only noticeable in freeze-frame details and actually getting so upset that they would stop watching the show. I was going to ask that until I realized the answer was YES, there IS someone sitting at home getting their panties all in a knot over these incredibly nit-picky details. At least ONE person, anyway. And I don't think you turning off your TV is going to cause ratings to drop.

wow.




again... wow.

I mean, really... this is important enough and significant enough that it has totally destroyed your enjoyment of the show? For real? You aren't just playing a character and doing it just to rile people up?

Have you ever watched a TV show before? A movie? Read a book? And you haven't found any other errors in any other entertainment medium?

wow...

They have medicine for this now, you know, so you don't have to suffer in public like this...

............:24:

Well put TABBYRASA.

A puzzle in a puzzling show! Every clue/scene/shot really is a piece of one huge puzzle...

so enkidu's friend = gilgamesh. that's all. bummers.


Are you familiar with the myth?

The show itself is a puzzle.

The Gilgamesh myth is fascinating.

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/ishtar.html

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/ishtar.html

that tablet is actually incomplete of the myth in it's entirety, Inanna rises by acknowledging where she hurts, and reigns supreme in heaven and earth...

darkpiranha - thank you for saving me from typing out practically word for word what you were going to say.

locke the hatch - no, that's just wrong, and that's why so many people are frustrated. the writers/producers, are not masterminds/geniuses, and so many things are overanalyzed because people think that EVERYTHING during the hour long episode is significant

LOCKE THE HATCH, that "42" could relate to Jack, since that was his row# and he is
a leader.


Wasn't Ana in 42F?

Wasn't Ana in 42F?
Yes, sorry, my mistake. I was thinking of the way the "Previously on Lost" was shown last time showing Jack saying "42F" and Ana repeating "42F". They didn't show her previously telling him that was her seat#.

Interesting since the "42" was an initial reason to consider Ana.

And what if there is a reason for these 'errors" but no one can tell us yes or no without blowing the story line? Maybe we should just be glad we are observant. I still believe certain things are not errors.

I totally agree with you!!! There is actually a very slight chance that those are errors. Everything is just so well thought, that it must be intentional, everything!!


the latin lostie

Is anyone particularly savvy with the epic of gilgamesh. Considering Enkindo aparently is a character in the story and in enkido means circular orbit.

Thank you Cobblepot!

I think everyone is missing the point and getting distracted by insignificant details. The point is GILGAMESH is a CLUE!
The meaning of the other words (if anything) is something else to be discussed but really, whether or not TPTB made errors is a) not the point of this thread and b) less important than WTF GILGAMESH MEANS TO THE STORY!

JMO

So, what are you saying? They wanted to draw our attention to Gilgamesh, which they did, hence, the rest is irrelevant?.
Let's say they wanted to draw our attention to a mustach, according to you, they can put anywhere, as long as we noticed it? So, they can put it on the back of someone's neck, and it will still be alright?
I wonder....
darkpiranha:
I was not the one who said "everything is there for a reason"!
The creative team did!
When such a declaration is made, you build up expectations, when these expectations are not met, you demand answers, when answers are so lame, you are pissed, really pissed.
I now watch lost just like I watch any other tv show, nothing more nothing less. And about the ratings, if you have not noticed, they are falling, rapidly.

One day Gilgamesh sent a hunter and a beautiful woman to the forest, planning to distract Enkidu from the animals. The hunter left, and Enkidu and
the woman became good friends.
Well, the woman had a certain ancient profession and she didn't befriend Enkidu but "met" him like Adam and Eve met after eating from the apple ... :biggrin: [/QUOTE]

Also of note, the Epic of Gilgamesh is not a complete story, as quite a bit of it has been lost over the years. What we know has been pieced together, but we don't know the whole story.
Yes, unfortunately ... :crying:

One of my favorite episodes of Star Trek Next Generation."Darmok"
I completely agree with you, Sam G! It was eerily myth(olog)ical!!!

"Gilgamesh," one of the Hindu gods
LOL! Sorry, but that is too much after numerous pages about the "Epic Of Gilgamesh" in these and other threads!

O_O
They owe me money for using my Username!!
Awesome choice for a username! Thumbs up, brother!

"Alain" is significant if you look at it from a Stephen King perspective (though not The Stand) this time it is "The Dark Tower" (which fits in someways with the story thus far).
Exactly! It was partly confirmed during the last official podcast. Another thumbs up for mentioning "The Dark Tower"!
You guys are awesome!

Perhaps the errors are to distract us from Gilgamesh
This sounds reasonable to me! :)

So, what are you saying? They wanted to draw our attention to Gilgamesh, which they did, hence, the rest is irrelevant?.
Let's say they wanted to draw our attention to a mustach, according to you, they can put anywhere, as long as we noticed it? So, they can put it on the back of someone's neck, and it will still be alright?
I wonder....
darkpiranha:
I was not the one who said "everything is there for a reason"!
The creative team did!
When such a declaration is made, you build up expectations, when these expectations are not met, you demand answers, when answers are so lame, you are pissed, really pissed.
I now watch lost just like I watch any other tv show, nothing more nothing less. And about the ratings, if you have not noticed, they are falling, rapidly.

Gilgamesh is a blatant clue, presented in crossword form, so that internet fanboys could search the correct spelling (by the way, its mustache!) about the GILGAMESH story!

You are hopeless.
Just like Michael Jackson's fans.

You are hopeless.
Just like Michael Jackson's fans.

definite nutjob, possible child molester............continuity error
definite nutjob, possible child molester............continuity error
definite nutjob, possible child molester............continuity error

[sarcasm font] Sure, I can see where that would be the same.:glare: [sarcasm font]

[amasement font] !Wow you are soooooo clever! [astonishment font]

Okay... now I think Ommadawn's twelve-year-old son is sneaking onto dad's computer and using his Fuselage screen name to type stuff in. I really can't think of any other explanation for the... maturity level of the latest posts. Ommadawn is going to be pretty upset when he sees how bad his kid has made him look.

I am sure it has been writen already...but there are 20 pages here on this topic and I truthfully did not read them all.

The info below is the result of a serch of "macbeth place"

The clue 36 Macbeth Place I think that this to can be a clue.

a breif on Macbeth

The play provides a detailed exploration of the pathological effects of guilty conscience. As soon as the murder is committed, Macbeth realizes that he has "murdered sleep," and for the rest of the play he is haunted (quite literally, in his visions of Banquo's ghost) by the psychological (as well as political) consequences of the act that has obliterated his peace of mind, making the play a study in the effects of anxiety.
While his wife seems at first to be less remorseful than Macbeth, it is she who exhibits classical Renaissance symptoms of mental disturbance. In the famous sleepwalking scene, she is observed and commented on by a doctor. Macbeth appeals to him to "minister to a mind diseased" (5.3.40), but the doctor says that, when guilt is the cause, the patient must "minister unto himself" (5.3.46). Lady Macbeth dies soon after.

Gender is crucial in the effects of guilt. While Lady Macbeth's ambition is instrumental in bringing about the murder, the play implies that as a woman she is less able to withstand the strain than her husband is. In order to carry the act through, she calls on the spirits to "unsex me here," implying that a woman, and especially a mother, lacks the will power for such an act. Macduff, who finally kills Macbeth, was born by Cesarean section or, as the witches put it, is "not of woman borne"




http://www.online-literature.com/shakespeare/macbeth/16/

HAMLET Place = DENMARK

"There is something rotten in the state of Denmark".

MACBETH Place=Scotland, Forres and Iverness

We also have a "second tour of Finland" and "Copenhagen" European clues. Rousseau is from France, soon we will meet Giovanni and the Italian team, This research station is International-Australia (Sydney origin flight), North America (LAX destination), Europe (these clues), Africa (Nigeria), and Asia. Throw in South America and we could host an Island Olympics!

HAMLET Place = DENMARK

"There is something rotten in the state of Denmark".

MACBETH Place=Scotland, Forres and Iverness

We also have a "second tour of Finland" and "Copenhagen" European clues. Rousseau is from France, soon we will meet Giovanni and the Italian team, This research station is International-Australia (Sydney origin flight), North America (LAX destination), Europe (these clues), Africa (Nigeria), and Asia. Throw in South America and we could host an Island Olympics!

Copenhagen, Denmark-- Narvik(were the building in the orientation film is) are in the Arctic Circle

http://www.tourvacationstogo.com/maps/glandco/ZN.jpg

But the clue Macbeth place not Hamlet I did not see Hamlet( I must of missed that)
But the idea behind the story of Macbeth to me as showen above sound a little familar or am I streching it.

Copenhagen, Denmark-- Narvik(were the building in the orientation film is) are in the Arctic Circle

http://www.tourvacationstogo.com/maps/glandco/ZN.jpg

But the clue Macbeth place not Hamlet I did not see Hamlet( I must of missed that)
But the idea behind the story of Macbeth to me as showen above sound a little familar or am I streching it.



actually, your map shows copenhagen far south of the arctic circle

actually, your map shows copenhagen far south of the arctic circle

Yeah but it is still conciderd part of the Artic circle. I am not a geogophy person this is just what I have found at several site about the artic circle.:smile: And I thought that was intersting fact.

RE:
"but was the crossword another prop mistake?

i solved it. if it was not a mistake, it was really sloppy work. it really looks like someone took an existing crossword, subtracted one black square and added two to force "gilgamesh" to fit, even though it works with none of the cross-words.

i gotta tell you, for free i would have made you a new, challenging crossword that makes sense and would be a nice easter egg for us nerd fans, too."



I have more issue with the above poster who frankly comes off like a pompous knowitall.
Everything isnt a clue, the show isnt made to be freeze framed and watched to nitpick at.

Even worse, complaining and ripping into the prop people because they are getting 'sloppy'.

Wow.
I hope the writers dont think you 'represent' fans of the show.
Frankly, get a life...

What 3 wisemen? They are made up....how can they have names?

Santa Clause has a name, Bugs Bunny has a name, so why not?

:biggrin:

So, what are you saying? They wanted to draw our attention to Gilgamesh, which they did, hence, the rest is irrelevant?.
Let's say they wanted to draw our attention to a mustach, according to you, they can put anywhere, as long as we noticed it? So, they can put it on the back of someone's neck, and it will still be alright?
I wonder....
darkpiranha:
I was not the one who said "everything is there for a reason"!
The creative team did!
When such a declaration is made, you build up expectations, when these expectations are not met, you demand answers, when answers are so lame, you are pissed, really pissed.
I now watch lost just like I watch any other tv show, nothing more nothing less. And about the ratings, if you have not noticed, they are falling, rapidly.

But putting a mustache on the back of someone's neck is essentially what they did! Except, in "Adrift," it was a Dharma logo instead of a mustache, and it was on the tail of a shark instead of on the back of someone's neck. And sho' 'nuf, it got noticed!

As for the ratings falling rapidly, is there any evidence to support this?

He means that the ratings are falling rapidly in his home (of course, that doesn't make sense, because he is actually still watching the show, isn't he?), or maybe he's hoping that the ratings fall so that his rant can be justified.

Hey... there's a show out there that has little mysteries introduced and solved within the course of the show. It's a show that's perfect for freeze-framing for him, and I'm pretty sure that the continuity is pretty tight from freeze-frame to freeze-frame.

It's called Blue's Clues. I think they even have a forum he can go and rant at. www.thebluesalage.com.

Well... okay.. maybe that website doesn't exist yet... but it should.

He means that the ratings are falling rapidly in his home (of course, that doesn't make sense, because he is actually still watching the show, isn't he?), or maybe he's hoping that the ratings fall so that his rant can be justified.

Hey... there's a show out there that has little mysteries introduced and solved within the course of the show. It's a show that's perfect for freeze-framing for him, and I'm pretty sure that the continuity is pretty tight from freeze-frame to freeze-frame.

It's called Blue's Clues. I think they even have a forum he can go and rant at. www.thebluesalage.com (http://www.thebluesalage.com).

Well... okay.. maybe that website doesn't exist yet... but it should.

This is getting no one any where.........nothing resolved and quite frankly annoying to come to a read. Stop it.

Hey... there's a show out there that has little mysteries introduced and solved within the course of the show. It's a show that's perfect for freeze-framing for him, and I'm pretty sure that the continuity is pretty tight from freeze-frame to freeze-frame.

It's called Blue's Clues. I think they even have a forum he can go and rant at. www.thebluesalage.com.

The Blueselage? Dude, I would SO join that forum.

Whatever happened to Steve? Did "Joe," if that is his real name, do something nefarious? I always got a bad vibe off that guy, but I'm waiting for the Joe flashback before I pass judgement on him. Is the world divided up between the Blue side and the Magenta side? Is Paprika really Mr. Salt's child, or was Mrs. Pepper having an affair? Can we really trust those blue pawprints, or are TPTB messing with us? Is Mailbox intercepting important evidence before Blue can check the mail? Surely "Blue skidoo, we can too" is an anagram hiding an important secret message. And seriously, what's up with Slippery Soap?

I didn't have time to read this whole thread but I just wanted to throw in...

A few years ago I went by the screen name of GilgameshFlower. I vaugely remember it being a Sumerian story about a flower at the bottom of an ocean that would would give man immortality. Wish I could remember the whole story... I'll look it up later.

I didn't have time to read this whole thread but I just wanted to throw in...

A few years ago I went by the screen name of GilgameshFlower. I vaugely remember it being a Sumerian story about a flower at the bottom of an ocean that would would give man immortality. Wish I could remember the whole story... I'll look it up later.

somthnclever I would so love to read about that. Make sure to come back with a link or two. Now I've got to go and look for this myself. Thanks

There are loads of sites.

Here is the link for one and an exerpt from the page as well...

http://ksumail.kennesaw.edu/~shagin/WLsummariesUNIT1FA03.html

"Just then, Utnapishtim's wife scolds her husband for being a bad host, telling Utnapishtim that he has failed to give his guest a parting gift. Unable to figure out what to give this Sumerian king, Utnapishtim offers the only gift that he has -- wisdom. He instructs Gilgamesh how to find the flower of immortality at the bottom of the ocean. Excited at the prospects, Gilgamesh ties two stones to his feet, sinks to the ocean floor (the Apsu), finds the flower, pulls it by the stem (which pricks his hands), cuts the stones free, and ascends to the surface. Gilgamesh has found what he had been looking for -- the magic flower of immortality! He jumps for joy in his victory! He explains that he will offer this potion to his subjects in Uruk, starting with the oldest citizens. Perhaps he can bring Enkidu back to life after all. "

Another quote from the same site...

"But wait! Did you notice what Gilgamesh named the Flower if Immortality? On page 119 he says that its name shall be "An old man grows into a young man." The ancient Sumerians had a word that means just that. That word is ... "Gilgamesh." If our protagonist and the flower are called the same name, then what has Gilgamesh really found?

another site


http://gilgamesh.ifokus.info/
Gilgamesh


The Epic of Gilgamesh is probably the oldest written story in the world. The story was written down on 12 clay tablets somewhere in ancient Sumer. It is the first heroic epos that we know of, predating the greek by at least 1500 years.
The tablets are telling the story of an ancient sumerian king, the King Gilgamesh of Uruk (the biblical Erech). The tablets are from somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE. This version of the Gilgamesh epos is based on the standard Akkadian edition, but where the tablets are unreadable, text are filled in from the old babylonian version of the story

Dude... you've watched WAY too many episodes of Blues Clues.

And I apologize to all the others for taking my frustrations a bit too far. You're right, my insult was uncalled for.

Dude... you've watched WAY too many episodes of Blues Clues.

One of the "perks" of having been a stay-at-home dad, back in the day. Back before Steve was killed off by Joe. Or was it Scott? I can never keep those two straight.

The Blueselage? Dude, I would SO join that forum.

Whatever happened to Steve? Did "Joe," if that is his real name, do something nefarious? I always got a bad vibe off that guy, but I'm waiting for the Joe flashback before I pass judgement on him. Is the world divided up between the Blue side and the Magenta side? Is Paprika really Mr. Salt's child, or was Mrs. Pepper having an affair? Can we really trust those blue pawprints, or are TPTB messing with us? Is Mailbox intercepting important evidence before Blue can check the mail? Surely "Blue skidoo, we can too" is an anagram hiding an important secret message. And seriously, what's up with Slippery Soap?

Clever - a lost spin-off for the preschool set.

I believe the clue "Gilgamesh" was meant to bring our attention to the life extension project that Hanso is undertaking. Gilgamesh went on a quest for immortality. Hanso is also on this quest, and we know from the Hanso website and the document hidden on that website (about the ape that Hanso has helped live to 100+.) that they are making progress in this area. I like all the clue hunting but I believe the main (and probably only) clue in the crossword puzzle was Gilgamesh. IMO the relevant part of the Gilgamesh story has to be the hunt for immortality, its smacking me in the face. And I don’t think that Locke and Eko compare well to Gilgamesh and Enkidu. From just our brief introduction to Eko, I've got to say he is physically superior to everyone, Sayid held his own, maybe Jack could hold also but, regardless Locke couldn’t (IMO). In the story Gilgamesh defeats Enkidu in a fight. If the comparison was correct this would mean Eko is Gilgamesh, but Gilgamesh was brutal and Eko seems just the opposite. Locke doesn’t seem cruel either, but we do know that he will use any means to the end. So my conclusion is that the writers were not comparing any of the main characters to Gilgamesh and Enkidu. If anyone is Gilgamesh it’s Alvar Hanso. I believe they were instead giving us our first "on show" clue about the Hanso's life extension project and one of the true purposes of the island.

I believe the clue "Gilgamesh" was meant to bring our attention to the life extension project that Hanso is undertaking.
I think so, too. The intersting thing about this comparison is that Gilgamesh wasn't successful in becoming immortal himself. Only his deeds and his building the city walls of Uruk made him immortal. So I think Hanso won't be successful in his life extension project, either. Maybe the ape will be for Hanso similar to what the snake was for Gilgamesh?

And I don’t think that Locke and Eko compare well to Gilgamesh and Enkidu. From just our brief introduction to Eko, I've got to say he is physically superior to everyone
I agree with you.

In the story Gilgamesh defeats Enkidu in a fight.
That's not true. Neither Gilgamesh nor Enkidu can win their fight against each other. This is how they come to respect each other as equals.

That's not true. Neither Gilgamesh nor Enkidu can win their fight against each other. This is how they come to respect each other as equals.

The story I read stated that Gilgamesh eventually won the fight and after that they became friends. It doesnt really matter, it was just part of my rebuttal to Locke being Gilgamesh, I dont think Locke could even tie a fight with Eko. (personally I hope they dont fight)


http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/GILG.HTM (maybe there are two versions)
Tablet 2
Enkidu is gradually introduced to civilization by living for a time with a group of shepherds, who teach him how to tend flocks, how to eat, how to speak properly, and how to wear clothes. Enkidu then enters the city of Uruk during a great celebration. Gilgamesh, as the king, claims the right to have sexual intercourse first with every new bride on the day of her wedding; as Enkidu enters the city, Gilgamesh is about to claim that right. Infuriated at this abuse, Enkidu stands in front of the door of the marital chamber and blocks Gilgamesh's way. They fight furiously until Gilgamesh wins the upper hand; Enkidu concedes Gilgamesh's superiority and the two embrace and become devoted friends.

The story I read stated that Gilgamesh eventually won the fight and after that they became friends. It doesnt really matter, it was just part of my rebuttal to Locke being Gilgamesh, I dont think Locke could even tie a fight with Eko. (personally I hope they dont fight)

I think in terms of Locke and Eko (if that is the comparison, which I think it is) it is more of a mental or spirtual equal.

I am a little upset about the "so called" prop mistake myself, not because they are are human and make mistakes but for this reason.

First let me ask... how many of you actually noticed the word Gilgamesh when watching it the first time? I didn't. People naturally read horizontally, so when you are shown something for just a few seconds, your eyes will tend to read the horizontal words first.

My husband comment when we saw the puzzle was.. "Wow Locke sure is smart". And I said "why"? And he said, "I didn't recognize the meaning of any of those words". So I checked in here to the fuselage and lo and behold... they aren't real words// The only real word is Gilgamesh, which my tiny little brain didn't register in time because I was confused by all the horizontal words that made no sense.

So to make a long story short.. They must have known that people would go back and freezeframe this puzzle... so why the heck can't they do it right? As someone else already said in the beginning of this post.. it isn't hard to make a correct crossword puzzle that has Gilgamesh in it.

While i don't think it is all a big deal. I do believe that whoever was responsible for this made mistakes in two ways:

1. They don't know their audience very well... of course people are going to scutinize this.. it is Lost

2. If they were using this to give us a clue, then double what i said above, because that means they EXPECTED people to go back an scrutinize this.

In summary, if you want people to analyze something, don't have your audience focusing on mistakes that you made.

To everyone who thinks they did the prop wrong,how do you know?

Maybe its not supposed to be gilgamesh, maybe its a mistake on purpose, maybe its meaningless. If you dont know how, if at all, that will be used in the story , you cant comment on it.

How have any of those books in the background of scenes been used so far?
Not at all!
To give some supervague clue about nothing imparticular.
Pretty meaningless actually.
Two of the writers actually said that a few of those books they never even read.

Enjoy the show, take it for what it is.

The intent of showing the crossword puzzle was for us to see the word Gilgamesh. The more clear words you have surrounding the one you want the audience to focus on, the harder it is for the audience to focus on it. When the only word that is clear is Gilgamesh, then you don't have to worry if the audience saw it.


But my only question is....

WHO CARES? How on earth does this possibly matter? I just don't get it.

The other words on the crossword make no sense? Big deal. Did I enjoy the show and 'get' what they were trying to get across? Yes.

I just don't understand how these nitpicky details can totally ruin a show for some people.

I am a little upset about the "so called" prop mistake myself, not because they are are human and make mistakes but for this reason.

First let me ask... how many of you actually noticed the word Gilgamesh when watching it the first time? I didn't. People naturally read horizontally, so when you are shown something for just a few seconds, your eyes will tend to read the horizontal words first.

My husband comment when we saw the puzzle was.. "Wow Locke sure is smart". And I said "why"? And he said, "I didn't recognize the meaning of any of those words". So I checked in here to the fuselage and lo and behold... they aren't real words// The only real word is Gilgamesh, which my tiny little brain didn't register in time because I was confused by all the horizontal words that made no sense.

So to make a long story short.. They must have known that people would go back and freezeframe this puzzle... so why the heck can't they do it right? As someone else already said in the beginning of this post.. it isn't hard to make a correct crossword puzzle that has Gilgamesh in it.

While i don't think it is all a big deal. I do believe that whoever was responsible for this made mistakes in two ways:

1. They don't know their audience very well... of course people are going to scutinize this.. it is Lost

2. If they were using this to give us a clue, then double what i said above, because that means they EXPECTED people to go back an scrutinize this.

In summary, if you want people to analyze something, don't have your audience focusing on mistakes that you made.
I could not agree more, if (as TPTB say) everything is put there for a reason, at least put it correctly.

The intent of showing the crossword puzzle was for us to see the word Gilgamesh. The more clear words you have surrounding the one you want the audience to focus on, the harder it is for the audience to focus on it. When the only word that is clear is Gilgamesh, then you don't have to worry if the audience saw it.


But my only question is....

WHO CARES? How on earth does this possibly matter? I just don't get it.

The other words on the crossword make no sense? Big deal. Did I enjoy the show and 'get' what they were trying to get across? Yes.

I just don't understand how these nitpicky details can totally ruin a show for some people.
My God, the confidence you have, as if you were part of the creative team itself, are you now?
The way you state your opinions (which you are 100% entitled to have, but they are only opinions, do not forget it) as FACTS, like no one can shake your world, ever, I mean....relax, give people the right to have their own opinions, give people some space.
You might be wrong, sometime....

RE:
"My God, the confidence you have, as if you were part of the creative team itself, are you now?"

Ummm, arent YOU the person saying they MADE A MISTAKE.(which you cant possibly know).


Actually right now Im saying you dont know WTF you are talking about since you obviously dont understand what you even wrote.

The story I read stated that Gilgamesh eventually won the fight and after that they became friends. It doesnt really matter, it was just part of my rebuttal to Locke being Gilgamesh, I dont think Locke could even tie a fight with Eko. (personally I hope they dont fight)
I see what you mean and I don't think Locke would have any chance at all against Mr. Eko, either. But I can't see them fight each other anyway.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/GILG.HTM (maybe there are two versions)
You're right, there are many versions and variations of this epic story - and none of them is complete ... :down: In addition to that there also is room for interpretation, of course. So I was wrong to claim you weren't right, but I was. I'm the most familiar with the version that was translated by well-known German Orientalist Harmut Schmökel. He chose the Old Babylonian "Pennsylvania Tablet" as basis for that part of the story. The link you posted only gives a rough abbreviation of the action. It was Enkidu who started to talk first after the fight had went nowhere, so maybe that's why some people think it was Gilgamesh who won.
At this website (http://gilgamesh.psnc.pl/index.html) I found the following version:
"... So the mighty brothers fought at first pushing and shoving each other for hours and hours enraged. Then a calm force gently soothed then well-matched spirits to bring a peace and rest their strife. It was Enkidu who sued for rest saying: "Gilgamesh, enough! I am here to match some fate with you, not to destroy or rival any king." ..." (Tablet II, Column VI)
See also the transcript of the standard Akkadian edition complemented by the Old Babylonian version here (http://gilgamesh.ifokus.info/gilgamesh/gilgamesh_tablet_2.asp):
"...
They grappled with each other at the entry to the marital chamber,
in the street they attacked each other, the public square of the land.
The doorposts trembled and the wall shook,

[About 42 lines are missing from the Standard Version; lines 103-129 are taken from the Old Babylonian version.]

Gilgamesh bent his knees, with his other foot on the ground,
his anger abated and he turned his chest away.
After he turned his chest Enkidu said to Gilgamesh:
..."

how many of you actually noticed the word Gilgamesh when watching it the first time?
I did so immediately because that was the word Locke was just completing. My eyes just followed his pen and the word even stayed on camera for an extra second afterwards.

They must have known that people would go back and freezeframe this puzzle... so why the heck can't they do it right? As someone else already said in the beginning of this post.. it isn't hard to make a correct crossword puzzle that has Gilgamesh in it.
I don't think that was their intention at all but completely agree with post #226 by darkpiranha. Something else that comes to my mind in this regard is "The Colorado Kid" by Stephen King which I just finished. I can only recommend it - and especially its afterword! - to anyone here complaining about the crossword puzzle.

...ya ever think maybe locke is just randomly filling out letters in the puzzle , trying to 'force' words to fit when they really dont?

Maybe locke is nuts?

Maybe all of the fingerpointers 'THATS SLOPPY', 'THATS WRONG' are all jumping to conclusions ...

...ya ever think maybe locke is just randomly filling out letters in the puzzle , trying to 'force' words to fit when they really dont?

Maybe locke is nuts?

Maybe all of the fingerpointers 'THATS SLOPPY', 'THATS WRONG' are all jumping to conclusions ...
Maybe so. What's most important IMO here is the fact that he put "Gilgamesh" there and what that name stands for. If it doesn't relate to the crossword puzzle it relates to what's on Locke's mind. The result is about the same for the ensuing story, isn't it?

RE:
"My God, the confidence you have, as if you were part of the creative team itself, are you now?"

Ummm, arent YOU the person saying they MADE A MISTAKE.(which you cant possibly know).


Actually right now Im saying you dont know WTF you are talking about since you obviously dont understand what you even wrote.
May I offer you a glass of cold water? Or a cold shower? Bad day at the office? Why don't you take off your shoes and unwind?
Can you read?
If the answer is yes, look at the screencap of the crossword, and tell me please, does it look correct to you? If the answer to that is yes, then we do not live on the same planet.:biggrin:
Have a wonderful life.:undecide:

Dear fool,
The only way you know if it is WRONG is if you
A)created the puzzle
B)wrote the screenplay

even a person as simple as you can understand that logic...cant you?

what makes the puzzle wrong? because you dont understand why he filled out things the way he did?



Since you dont understand this simple concept, you need to jump to less conclusions and off more cliffs...

Can we please stop the name-calling?
There is no correct answer to the hint in the crossowrd puzzle other than "Gilgamesh". We only saw Locke fill in letters completing that one name and I'd like to state that to me the hand-writing of the other letters looked different from the ones Locke wrote. Maybe somebody else started the puzzle and Locke just tried to complete it?

There are plenty of possibilities

For example
imgtativ - its not a word, but it fits, so does that mean locke is wrong , or the puzzle, or both. Any of those can work.

People can blame the propmaker and say its wrong but they are just guessing...

Just FYI...Javi was asked about this and replied...it's mentioned earlier in this thread...or go look in Questions for the VIP's under "For Javi"...

There are plenty of possibilities
There are not. The clue was "Enkidu's friend" and there was only one friend of Enkidu: Gilgamesh.
As I've stated clearly above this is not about the other words. We were shown the clue and we were shown Locke solving it. That's what counts.

It's a parable Enkidu and Giglamesh. They had adventures together. Enkidu was a wild man raised by the animals living in the jungle protecting it from men, Tarzan-esque. He was tempted by a harlot and the animals abandoned him. Look it up sometime its kinda neat.

...then why are people looking at the puzzle at all if the only takehome point is 'gilgamesh'?
If thats the case this thread has no purpose.

Maybe the point of this thread is to realize just that.
Like I said go, no RUN!, and read "The Colorado Kid"!

May I offer you a glass of cold water? Or a cold shower? Bad day at the office? Why don't you take off your shoes and unwind?
Can you read?
If the answer is yes, look at the screencap of the crossword, and tell me please, does it look correct to you? If the answer to that is yes, then we do not live on the same planet.:biggrin:
Have a wonderful life.:undecide:

Dear fool,
The only way you know if it is WRONG is if you
A)created the puzzle
B)wrote the screenplay
even a person as simple as you can understand that logic...cant you?
what makes the puzzle wrong? because you dont understand why he filled out things the way he did?
Since you dont understand this simple concept, you need to jump to less conclusions and off more cliffs...
okay people. the two that i have quoted... that have had their posts reported for rudeness...
yes you two. cut it out. debate the point/s made without the name calling and insinuated
insults.
thank you.

Why is everyone insisting the ANSWER is wrong? It's much more likely the QUESTION is wrong.

Its like a metaphor for the audience and speculators, everyone keeps coming up with absurd answers and force them to fit, then keeps asking irrelevant questions to come up with that answer. Even if it means changing or ignoring facts given in the show(the black and white squares) to allow it to be right.

I don't claim to be a part of the writing staff, but I DO read what they say and write concerning things on this show. As has been pointed out earlier, Javi himself said that the point of the scene was to communicate Enkidu and Gilgamesh.

And as an aside, I've done a few crosswords in my life, and on more than one occasion, I've been halfway through 'solving' it, but as I filled more words in, I found that other answers were wrong and I had to go back and change them. I'm not saying that this is what happened with Locke, but if we are going to nitpick these sorts of things to death, then why can't this be as reasonable an explanation as any other?

Again, I reiterate that this was not a 'mistake' or error or poor propsmanship. It just wasn't something they felt mattered.

as I filled more words in, I found that other answers were wrong and I had to go back and change them.

Yeah, but i bet you've never rubbed out a black square to make it fit.

It can't be a prop error anyway, they had to make up the question list to say 'Enkidu's friend' and print that out for the show. Same as either make up the crossword grid or alter a publically available one, then print that out for the show.

Sure, the intention was to show Gilgamesh as the answer. And it did that, even if it did fit it would still do that.

The makers knew that the answers were going to clash, and that everyone was going to see a close up. If they didn't want that to be seen they would just not fill in any other answers(at least not intersecting Gilgamesh), and that would show Gilgamesh even clearer.

Clearly the word Gilgamesh has some importance to the plot but it is also clear from the picture that Gilgamesh is not the word that is supposed to go there. All of the words on the crossword are real except the ones that go across the word Gilgamesh. I'm trying to fill out what would make more sense and this is what I have so far,

1. Ghar - most likely starts Char but not sure, so first letter C
2. Siend - the i is out of place, no idea on this one though
3. Acolns - probably Acorns so third letter is R
4 Imgtati... - probs Imitation, so fourth letter I
5. LAA - could be a lot of things, not sure
6. Ismskeet - could be Is, a skeet... so sixth letter A
7. Epers - first E is no good, but I have no clue
8. Asids - i no good, probably acids, so eigth letter C
9. ... Ghr - h is no good, probably an e or maybe o, no e sounds good, ninth letter E

So for the mystery word, tentatively we have C_ R I _ A _ C E.
I'm sure I have something wrong, but I think it'S relevant

The answers SPRIG.
Black Space.
ACETATE.

First let me ask... how many of you actually noticed the word Gilgamesh when watching it the first time?

I did, and was excited because I started a thread on Sumerian Mythology several episodes ago.

I think the people who know of Gilgamesh noticed it, everyone else is looking at all the other words.

My daughter noticed that everything else was penciled in fainter - and I have two thoughts on this. It's either Shannon's... (which would explain him trying to force in the word without it fitting in the rest), but the handwriting looks the same...so it could mean it was a puzzle Locke was just returning after a little adventure in the cedar forest (he needed to look busy, and that would also explain him trying to force in the word). I haven't done my stretching today. :)

dmaprophet2...AHHHHHHHHHH that felt good, right?:)

Jimmyshaker and joespace,

I highly encourage you to read this entire thread, to avoid duplication of effort. A lot of us put some time into the solution and I am not sure whether it's productive to spend any more time on it, except perhaps in pondering the esoteric, literature and character analysis and other metaphoric messages in the puzzle. I could be wrong. Many of us feel the relevant information is "Enkidu's friend = GILGAMESH". And then we're going nuts trying to figure out the hidden meaning(s) in that.:D

Just a friendly suggestion.:)

For anyone out there that actually makes crossword puzzles, how long does it take you to create one? Longer than an hour, I'd wager. These prop guys on the show have to make all the props for this show, and they have only a limited amount of time to do it. Typically each show is shot and edited in an eight-day span. If you're the person on Lost whose job it is to budget out people's time, how much time (and money) is it worth to spend on a prop that will have a grand total of five or so seconds of screen time, a prop whose only purpose is to get a single idea across? The prop people have to dress the sets and procure the props for EVERY scene in the episode. All the guns, the costumes, the pencils, the TVs, everything that is going to appear on camera has to be acquired or secured by the prop guys (or girls).

Have you ever planned an event or a party or something? It's a mad dash just to get everything kind of ready before everyone arrives, isn't it? And I'm sure that you always discover that you forgot something or didn't get something quite right that you end up kicking yourself for later. (At my own wedding, I had created a highlight video of me and my soon-to-be-wife's childhoods and our time together to be shown at the reception... I completely forgot to show it because we were so busy. I had spent HOURS putting it together and poof! Forgot all about it.) I'm sure there are many things at that party that because of time constraints you don't have time to spend on making it perfect. We've all had to 'make do' with what we had time to do.

That's what these people do every week. When it's time to roll cameras, every prop has to be in place and ready to perform its task.


And as to the faintness of the other letters, that's just another clue that the only word we were really supposed to focus on was Gilgamesh. Making the other letters fainter made the important word stand out.

Gilgamesh was the secret clue we were supposed to see. If there is anything else remotely important in that freeze-frame, it's purely an easter egg that will have no bearing on anything except to say "hey.. guess what I saw"

IMNSHO, anyway....

For anyone out there that actually makes crossword puzzles, how long does it take you to create one?


Crosswords of this complexity are never made by hand, you use software. It takes around 30 seconds, a bit longer if you want a few solutions to choose from.
If you google the words in the crossword(not gilgamesh) you will come up with the relatively standard wordlist for free crossword generators.

http://gtoal.com/wordgames/arccc/examples/wlist.txt

The grid layout appears to be a variant from MIT Tech.