There's a very diverse range of thoughts and feelings about Ana Lucia. I find it very interesting because we're all seeing the same character develop - and yet the way we feel about the character is so different for everyone. I'm purposely leaving out mention of Michelle Rodriguez because she is simply the person playing the role - and I don't think it's fair to base an opinion of a real person based upon a role they play. However, I will say that I think the actress is doing something right because people do have opinions of the character.

I disliked AL from the start of this season when we began to see the tailies. Though I thought she was pushy when she met Jack at the bar pre-flight, it wasn't really enough for me to really like or dislike her. However, the way she treated Sawyer, Jin and Michael after knowing they weren't a threat - her way of dictating how things were going to be - left me disliking her immensely. I did understand WHY she was doing this - she was trying to protect everyone and keep them alive - but that in my mind didn't make it ok for her to just boss everyone and bark orders or smack people around. Patience and self-control are something all good leaders need - and she has neither. In "the other 48 days" I did find myself feeling some sympathy toward her - my dislike was lessening because she showed a slight human side - I loved the scene with her and eko - and thought i had misjudged myself - because there was some humanity there. I figured that once we get more of her history - maybe i'd even dislike her less.

Her story is sad. She's been through a lot - lots of painful experiences. Lots of losses. But.... as the saying goes.. 2 wrongs don't make a right.. though for most of us the thought of revenge is sweet - she outright lied about the guy who shot her when he was in custody. As a cop, every minute she's on the job her life is in danger. The guy (Jason) got over on her - she believed him and let her guard down - he took advantage of that - not because she was AL - but because she was a cop. The resulting shooting was heartbreaking - she was pregnant - she was shot - no question that was a horrible thing. But somewhere there's a line that's drawn that separates the criminal murderers from the enforcers of law. And when she crossed that line by lying about Jason being the shooter when he was in custody - that was the beginning of the end of any credibility she could have for me. Then she gunned him down in cold blood. Yes - she was angry and rightfully so - but again - there's that line that separates murderer from protector - and what did she do - after he was down - she went in for more.

So I now understand why she is the way she is - and I understand the pain she was in - but it doesn't make me any more sympathetic to her - if anything it made me lose any respect I could have had.
And I'm very curious about what others are thinking about all this?

Her backstory did nothing to humanize her for me. I saw more of the same behavior, and while her behavior in the 'real' world was directly related to her loss of her child, it seems to have little bearing on her underlying desire to be a total bitch, which is what I don't like about her.

My opinion of Ana changed drastically because of her back-story. Up to this point, I honestly thought she was simply a bully trying to keep people alive the only way she knew how. Now, I really sympathize with her and am amazed that she was able to maintain such strength with all that has happened to her. Of course, we don't have a clear idea of how long the flashbacks occured (surprise, surprise) or what has happened to her since. Even so, I really felt sorry for her and am anxious to see what she does over the course of the next several episodes.

I can't stand her! I was hoping that Jack and Eko would have found her after she had hung herself with the vines she freed Sayid from. We weren't so lucky though.

She was like a cornered animal tonight. I think she's fascinating. And the "I was pregnant"..."bang bang" scene genuinely caught me. I hadn't guessed it even though the clues were there. Good stuff.

I like her a lot. It's nice to have someone that isn't (on the surface) nice, like everyone else. I think her character will develop a lot -- and for the better -- when she gets back to the group.

I like her a lot. It's nice to have someone that isn't (on the surface) nice, like everyone else. I think her character will develop a lot -- and for the better -- when she gets back to the group.

I think so as well. I'm just glad that everyone feels so strongly, one way or another about her character. It does mean she plays the part well, no matter what people say about her being typecast. She sure does capture the audience.

I try to like everyone, even Ana. I've learned to not jump to any conclusions with these confusing Lost characters. If we take just what we've seen, it doesn't look too good, so I'm guessing there is a lot more to learn about her.

I wonder what would have happened to the 4 of them if Ana wouldn't have been so tough? They'd probably all be dead right now. It served their purposes well then.

Like the crazy french chick said, "Are you on the same island I am"

I think posters forget what these dudes have been through. I was kind of expecting the monster or an other to grab another one of them as soon as they left Ana's protection.

Our castaways have acted dispicably too, but we've forgiven them and grown to love them. Cut Ana some slack.

I still would'nt piss on her if she were on fire (translation---I dont like her)

i'm starting to dislike her a little less after her backstory, but i still don't know. I think for a cop, she reacted quite irrationally, i mean even after going to a phsycologist for four months. I dont like how her character acts, despite knowing why it is she acts that way. she still bugs me

I like her, but I have always liked her. I wouldn't dream of excusing her behavior and I hope that if Sayid gets another chance to kick her *** he takes it, but I do understand her actions, and I feel for her even when she makes mistakes. That's why I like her. For me, its not about whether she plays well with others or does things that I approve of all the time. I just need to be able to understand her, and I need her to be hurting. It's the first question you learn to ask as a writer when you're learning about a main character, "who hurts the most?" And she does hurt.

You said the fact that she went in for more makes you dislike her and lose sympathy. That makes me like her more, because she doesn't do what makes sense to me. It makes her more interesting.

I still would'nt piss on her if she were on fire (translation---I dont like her)


She'd probably shoot you before you had a chance to undo your zipper! :biggrin:

I can't stand her. No apologies.

Honestly I don't care she was shot 4 times and lost her baby. I'm not slightly interested in the character.

She'd probably shoot you before you had a chance to undo your zipper! :biggrin:Uhhhhhh, I doubt she would be thinking of that were she on fire, plus the act of urinating on a person who is on fire would be helpin-------oh never mind, explaining the saying to you is probably an act of futility, seeing as how you did'nt get it the first time,

Her character is a nutjob; this was already obvious by her over-the-top paranoid, control-freak, ultra-violent antics in the last 48 days. Now we just know why she's a nutjob. I don't feel any empathy for her character, though. It was a horrible thing to have happen, true, but she came out a psycho and should have been locked up in a mental ward long ago. She seriously needs to be killed off.

I think it's refreshing (probably a bad choice of words) to have a character like her on the show...she's coming from a very different angle than the other cast members...to see her face "crumble" a little looking at Jack at the end makes me even more interested about her and her past...

I think so as well. I'm just glad that everyone feels so strongly, one way or another about her character. It does mean she plays the part well, no matter what people say about her being typecast. She sure does capture the audience.

I agree - I don't think any other character has sparked this much attention from me. If I were to know this person in real life, i know i'd be way more sympathetic and probably end up being friends because i'd feel like she needed to know she wasn't all alone -- but as part of the show.. i just can't seem to like her :ohwell:

I really dislike this character, she just isn't a good fit on this show. Ana Lucia has to go.

I still like her.. and we are starting to get somewhat of an understanding of her. Fascinating is such a good way to put it. She is not instantly lovable like Rose, or as easily likeable as say, Jack, but she is I think very deep- Cornered Animal, no truer a word spoken. She was so Lost inside herself and the circumstances she had created for herself, im glad eventually she let Sayid go-

I can understand Sayid blaming her for Shannons death, yes she did shoot her, however I suspect many others in the same situation would have done the same thing. She was in charge of her group, one of them had just gone missing, the Others were present (or at least the whispers) and someone came out of the jungle towards her. Its adrenaline and it was her reaction. Bad decision no doubt in hindsight, but at the time she did what she did and she cant change that.

I don't like her . I could change my mind in the future, but once I hate a character they usually stay hated:laughing:

I don't like her . I could change my mind in the future, but once I hate a character they usually stay hated:laughing:
First impressions are lasting impressions, eh A2M? ;)
Her backstory did nothing to humanize her for me. I saw more of the same behavior, and while her behavior in the 'real' world was directly related to her loss of her child, it seems to have little bearing on her underlying desire to be a total vincent, which is what I don't like about her.
Me, too and you're right. One had nothing to do with the other. No excuse or even justification.
I can't stand her! I was hoping that Jack and Eko would have found her after she had hung herself with the vines she freed Sayid from. We weren't so lucky though.
LOL From your lips to the writer's ears!
I try to like everyone, even Ana. I've learned to not jump to any conclusions with these confusing Lost characters. If we take just what we've seen, it doesn't look too good, so I'm guessing there is a lot more to learn about her.

I wonder what would have happened to the 4 of them if Ana wouldn't have been so tough? They'd probably all be dead right now. It served their purposes well then.

Like the crazy french chick said, "Are you on the same island I am"

I think posters forget what these dudes have been through. I was kind of expecting the monster or an other to grab another one of them as soon as they left Ana's protection.

Our castaways have acted dispicably too, but we've forgiven them and grown to love them. Cut Ana some slack.
I can't, WIF. Mr. Eko would have saved them all too and done it with heart. They only "think" they survived via AL. They are all smart and clever but she has a way of making people think they can't do anything on their own. Thank goodness we saw her band disban and leave her on her own. And notice, once she was alone she had no more fight left in her. A bully ins't any good without their pack of "yes" men behind them.
i'm starting to dislike her a little less after her backstory, but i still don't know. I think for a cop, she reacted quite irrationally, i mean even after going to a phsycologist for four months. I dont like how her character acts, despite knowing why it is she acts that way. she still bugs me
Excatly! She had the law on her side, they caught the guy and he would have gotten the death penalty (CA has that) but she had to be Revenge Cop. She's a live wire in a room full of water ... just waiting to elctrocute anyone that comes in contact with her.
Honestly I don't care she was shot 4 times and lost her baby. I'm not slightly interested in the character.
Can you teach me how to be that way? She makes me sooo angry! What's your secret? :biggrin:
Her character is a nutjob; this was already obvious by her over-the-top paranoid, control-freak, ultra-violent antics in the last 48 days. Now we just know why she's a nutjob. I don't feel any empathy for her character, though. It was a horrible thing to have happen, true, but she came out a psycho and should have been locked up in a mental ward long ago. She seriously needs to be killed off.
Locked up in a mental hosp. or put behind bars for the cold blooded murder that she committed.
I really dislike this character, she just isn't a good fit on this show. Ana Lucia has to go.
Yes! And it's not because she's not all sweetness and light but because she is so "odd man out" that she stands out like a sore thumb. She doesn't fit, mesh or even compliment any of the other cast.

Now Claire has another nut-job to keep Aaron away from.

I have no problem with her -- I guess, since I've dealt with people like that all my life... I've been used to it... Nevertheless, I see where some of you are comin' from.

The minute I saw the target range, I 'knew' "OH, we hav e cop with a 'tude on our hands." Don't like her at all. I know cops like that. All attitude all the time.

I think she's crazy and should have been admitted to a mental hospital ages ago. I hope her character ends up biting it soon because I can't stand her.

I don't like her, at all. I think it was a mistake to bring her on as a regular.
I would take back Boone or Shannon in trade for her in a flat minute.
Yes what happened to her was a tragedy. But Somewhere she snapped and stopped being a Cop and turned into a vigilante nut. And nothing they have shown in the last few episodes
has helped her case out. She treated Michael, Jin and Sawyer like garbage even after she found out they were fellow survivors. If left up to her choice, she would have left Sawyer
in the Jungle to die and rot. After he passed out.
And then even though it was an accident. she did kill Shannon. And She showed no empathy to Sayid, or no Remorse, and offered no apoligies. She just decided to threaten and bully everyone else around her. The way they have portrayed Sawyer, & Kate and others. We see they have done bad things in there past. But along the way we have seen some remorse, some good deeds and some redeeming qualities. But so far they have not done this with Ana Lucia. Maybe this will change now that she has met up with Jack. But as it is. This character is just bad. And they seem to want to make her a Main character along with the likes of Jack & Kate & Locke & I think that's a big mistake.

Wow! There's an awful lot of Ana hate in the house! I can understand her forceful attitude rubbing people the wrong way, but a lot of people seem like they could happily munch popcorn while watching her being drawn and quartered, disemboweled and burned at the stake!

Her asking Sayid if he had kids really hit me. It seemed like more than *poor pitiful me. Somebody shot me and I lost a baby.* She was shot four times. Four gunshot wounds can do an awful lot of damage.

I got the feeling that she didn't merely (not that it would be a small thing) lose a baby she was carrying, but that perhaps she was also damaged in some way which would prevent her from ever having children. That would seem to fit better with her "I'm already dead." comment. And apparently it also had something to do with her losing her boyfriend (husband?) as well. I've never heard of someone leaving someone because they got shot ... unless the shooting caused some kind of irrepairable damage. (like Sarah's fiance)

Losing a baby doesn't break most women. It's horrible, but they eventually get over it. At least well enough to function normally. But losing a baby and the ability to produce any more is a completely different (and much more difficult to cope with) thing.

In that situation, I can easily see her (or me) coldly firing six shots into the person who did that to me.

Ana-Lucia is one of those people who are so frustrating because they play the "entitled-tough-victim-spoiled" game so well. She needs to be spanked and sent to bed without her supper. Someone needs to look her straight in the eyes and say, "Just shut up!"

I'm guessing she will be the new leader of the Lostaways.

Just watch, you laugh now, but I am right. Jack doesn't want the role as leader. Ana does, and will seize it with relish.

Ha! I don't know about that..her whole group except Eko deserted her...yes, he still tried to protect her even when he wasn't there...I doubt the writers would allow it to be taken in that direction...I hope she will have some influence though...to me she has one of the most tragic personal backstories so far out of the group...Sayid's another one that has real life grittiness to it....they have much in common and it showed....doesn't appear they come from places where the experience of forgiveness is common..

So I now understand why she is the way she is - and I understand the pain she was in - but it doesn't make me any more sympathetic to her - if anything it made me lose any respect I could have had.
And I'm very curious about what others are thinking about all this?

Honestly? I can't add anything else to what you already said. I agree 100%. I'm pretty passionate about my opinion on this because I come from a family of cops and I will be one myself as soon as I go through the academy and it's cops like Ana Lucia that give the rest of us a bad name. I know it's a terrible thing to lose a baby especially in the way it happened but she took that risk by being a police officer and being out there on the job. I also don't see it as any excuse to continue to take her feelings out on everyone else on the island. Everyone there has experienced hard times and most have painful pasts but they at least know when to work together and act nicely or at the very least civily towards each other. I thought Ana Lucia's storyline would make me like her more but it had the opposite effect.

I don't like her, and it bugs me more because I think TPTB took an ensemble show and introduced a 'main' character who is clearly intended to get more screen time than people we already like a lot. If she was a minor character, whatever, she would annoy me but I'd hope for less screen time. As it is I know I'm going to have to deal with her having a major role every week, which bums me out. And she has done a lot of awful stuff both on and off the island, and that backstory is supposed to make it OK??

The Tailies had to be different from the Lostaways and a character like Ana certainly shakes things up. Her backstory gives us so much insight to her troubled soul. I like the character even if I don't like the things she's done. She brings conflict. She's interesting.

Ana may find an eventual friend in Sayid, oddly enough. Maybe Locke can work his magic on Ana although she is in a very bad way. But maybe she needed to hit bottom so now she might start to heal. I don't condone her behavior but I do feel sorry for her.

And how unusual was it for her mom to be her captain?

I did understand WHY she was doing this - she was trying to protect everyone and keep them alive


She's a control freak. Period. Calling herself a cop belittles the fact she did the very thing new hunters (and hopefully new cops) are taught not to do - fire your weapon without knowing your target. I knew better when I was 9 years old.

If Lost hadn't gotten back to the orginal characters in another episode or two, they'd have Lost a set of viewers. I've been seriously wavering on the show this year, despite being a die hard fan last year. I can honestly tell you this, even if I love the rest of the season, the first few shows will not be re-run fare next year. I struggled through watching AL's character giving me reason to be elsewhere during Lost once. I'll not do it again.

Honestly too, if I don't see the original crew start to assert itself some, I'll be gone as well. I can't stand AL's character. Eko and the blonde (can't think of her name) are the only two I see as being able to forward the story, though I will say it was nice seeing Sayid hold his own with Eko. Bernard and Rose were a touching reunion, and a reaffirmination of her faith, but he seems a weak man to have inspired such trust from a strong woman.

I've had problems with the story line from the first show though. For someone to have once been in a position of authority like AL, she showed little common sense when it came to being attacked. Anyone notice that these folks slept like babies, night after night of being dragged away? Where where the sentries? Who stood duty? What defenses were laid out for the camp? Why wasn't the camp moved to a more defensible location? And who, takes off into a jungle to escape people who live in a jungle? Some really bad decisions made by the writers, I think. As for AL, I don't see her struggle as one to protect the living so much as one to control them.

Last thought is simple. The last person you need with a gun is the one who can't function without one. She can't.

I can't stand her! I was hoping that Jack and Eko would have found her after she had hung herself with the vines she freed Sayid from. We weren't so lucky though.

That's what I was hoping for also. My fiance hates Ana Lucia so much I dont think he'll watch the show with me anymore. :frown:

Well, up to this point Shannon was the most hated person for me on the show, but in the end I understand why Shannon was the way she was. It was her only defense. And she had to die for me to learn that. Now regarding Ana, she (like MANY of our lostaways) is a victim of her circumstances. Prior to what happend to her she was a cop, and judging by how people treated her she was well liked and well balanced.

Then she found out she was pregnant, and was shot in the line of duty and lost her baby, and lost her boyfriend (Maybe fiance) shortly afterwards. Now I'm no social expert mind you, but wouldnt that be enough to snap your hold on who you are? Alot of the people we know are only a bad string of events away from becoming a monster.

Now that that has been said, I think that we will find Ana out to be a monster. If she's given half of the ammo, if she's allowed to leave and go live on her own (Just like Danielle has been) the sorrow inside her will turn to anger and hate. And we'll have a gun weilding Ana-Lucia coming back in 6 to 8 months Island time to kill our Lostaways and Tailaways. She could make the Others look like Dr. Phil clones. But also if she is welcomed into the camp by our lostaways and allowed to join the ranks in this new civilization it could cause problems down the road. Expecially if I am right and the Others followed the Tailaways to the Lostaways camp.

If that was to happen we would see Ana slip very much into her old role, causing alot of problems to the structure of leadership in our camp. Oh, and if you think Sawyer is gonna go easy on her, your nuts. :)

I like AL and always have. She is only second to Locke and Eko in my book. She's a very complex and interesting character (like Locke and Eko). I really liked the scenes with her and Sayid (nice contrast to the silliness of Jack and Kate). I guess Kate, for example, could be said to be a complex and interesting character as well, but for some reason, I don't really care anymore.

AL's not necessarily someone I would like in real life, but I think she's a great addition to the show. I prefer the Tailies in general over people like Claire and Charlie (they are a waste of space).

It seems from what I'm reading here that overall - people's existing feelings toward AL were mostly reinforced by her story- rather than changed to a more positive view which was pretty much what I expected the intent of the story to be (making her more likeable or understood that is). There's lots of excellent points in this thread. But if the intent was to make her a more likeable character - I think that overall - it didn't work.

There's several parts to why I don't like her - and the overwhelming influence for me is her actions. As I said in an earlier post, 2 wrongs don't make a right. I think for me, the clincher is that she was a cop - perhaps if she had a different career I could have felt more sympathy and understanding toward her vigilante actions. No matter how bad her personal experiences were - and yes, what happened to her was bad - there's just no way I can balance that with her actions - both from her past and from the present (on the island). And again, that's not to say I don't understand her actions or why she acts the way she does. But because I know she was a cop - it makes it that much more reprehensible.

There's nothing else I care to know about her at this point. I'm hoping the focus will be on other characters and the unanswered questions that have been presented. I think the best thing would have been to give her the supplies she ordered Micheal to bring her and let her have a good 40+ days alone to review her past actions. Libby could carefully go to her weekly and they could talk about it all (off camera).

It seems from what I'm reading here that overall - people's existing feelings toward AL were mostly reinforced by her story- rather than changed to a more positive view which was pretty much what I expected the intent of the story to be (making her more likeable or understood that is). There's lots of excellent points in this thread. But if the intent was to make her a more likeable character - I think that overall - it didn't work.

There's nothing else I care to know about her at this point. I'm hoping the focus will be on other characters and the unanswered questions that have been presented. I think the best thing would have been to give her the supplies she ordered Micheal to bring her and let her have a good 40+ days alone to review her past actions. Libby could carefully go to her weekly and they could talk about it all (off camera).

I don't like her after her flashback either, which I don't think is an entirely bad thing. It kind of breaks the flashback/sympathy pattern we've become accustomed to. I think Libby should open a practice. I keep getting this image in my head of the Peanuts character Lucy with her lemonade stand therapy booth. "The doctor is in 5 cents" It's definitely something everyone could use on the island. Hopefully between Mr. Eko and Libby she'll get her head screwed on straight. In the meantime, no ammo for you! She should so not be carrying a weapon of any kind.

It seems from what I'm reading here that overall - people's existing feelings toward AL were mostly reinforced by her story- rather than changed to a more positive view which was pretty much what I expected the intent of the story to be (making her more likeable or understood that is). There's lots of excellent points in this thread. But if the intent was to make her a more likeable character - I think that overall - it didn't work.



My thoughts exactly. There was nothing in her story that made me feel any sympathy for her - and none of her current actions are heading in the "right" direction.

I was neutral to her before and am still neutral. It is good to have a character that isn't simply liked or disliked but also hated by a segment of the audience. The characters of Sawyer and Jin were softened to a large degree, so there really needs to be somebody who can inspire negative emotions in the viewer.

The difference is that I never hated Sawyer or Jin. I liked Sawyer from the start - probably because of his wit - and Jin - you could see flashes of humanity in him from the beginning.

I didn't like AL before and I still don't. I do feel sorry for her that she was pregnant when shot, but once she was back on the force after that attack, she should have followed the directions of her Captain/mother who wanted to put her on a desk job instead of whining about being back in a patrol car.

She had no business at that point carrying a gun - she went after that guy Jason like a vigilante. Heck, she disposed of his body so nobody ever found him.

Sayid was right not to take her up on her offer to kill her because she deserved it. AL's already dead and is not worthy of Sayid's revenge.

It's hard to imagine anyone actually "liking" Ana Lucifer, but I may be able to enjoy the character and find her presence interesting to the story. But that is a major IF depending entirely on what TPTB do with her.

IF she continues to be a uber scary, total wingnut, triggerhappy, bullying, perpetually sneering, almost comic villian, I can see it being somewhat entertaining to have her as a background character as per Danielle, Sort of one more terrifying and other-worldly thing about the island. I mean a shoot-first-breath-later semi-serial killer stranded with you on the Isle of Mystery? That could be OK.

But if, as has been hinted by TPTB, they have even the slightest intention of any kind of redemption, let alone ROMANTIC future for this character, it may just be the jump the shark point for the show IMO. The total badassness batsh*t craziness has just been driven home with way too many anvils to take it in that direction. And the "I wuz preg" excuse/flashback, IMO, was way overshadowed by her overall nutiness and unfitness for human interaction, let alone duty. And LOL to the previous poster who begged for Libby to break out the Lucy lemonade stand 5 cent advice stand, I thought the very same thing!

I was also taken aback by Mom of Ana Lucifer. Worst.Cop.Captain.In.The.Universe. Was this kind of slap at the LAPD? Just throw every obviously unstable headcase back in a car why don't ya? But good job, Ma, of warning AnaL about the surprise party. Not exactly a gal ya wanna pop out of the cake at, least she pop a cap right back at yer arse. Oh and Hurly, you jokester, don't even think of sneaking up behind her and saying BOO. Bad move, probably your last move.

I confess that some of my bitterness is caused by frustration that all this new stuff is being shoveled on before so much of last year's stuff is answered. I don't like having her gobble so much screen time from characters I already cared about.

So long post short: keep her nuts, keep her as a background threat (possibly to Aaron, as if he needs another one), and go back and tell me who Ethan who and what he was up to and I'll be OK with her.

I don't think the flashbacks were supposed to make us *like* her. I think it was supposed to make us 'understand' her a bit better. I know the backstory of some characters and I really don't 'like' them all that much but I do understand them. There is bit of a difference.

I'm neutral but leaning toward liking her simply because I have a contrary personality and like to go against the grain of popular opinion. That has more to do with most of you instead of Ana's charcter flaws. :D

Ana Lucifer. That's my vote for the best name for her ever.

*Applaud McGuane

I think she's a good person who's done some terrible things and had some terrible things done to her. She doesn't want to hurt people but she definitely has some anger management issues, and, as Libby pointed out, isn't the greatest "judge of character." Look at what she did in The Other 48 Days. Yes, there was Nathan, but really, I think most people would have locked him up too, if they thought he'd "taken"/killed most of their group. She's very emotionally wounded and afraid to be hurt again, either physically or psychologically. She did in fact say, "I'm already dead," which, I thought, referred to the loss of her baby and subsequently her boyfriend. Everything that mattered to her had been lost in "a minute," and she couldn't handle it.

I'm sympathetic towards her. I was even before the flashbacks, but I think her behavior makes more sense now.

I think Ana is just about done acting that way. Killing Shannon talking to Syaid. The talk with Jack that hasn't happend yet. I have a feeling she is going to mellow now. I think she finally has regreats. Something she was lacking until now.

I don't like having her gobble so much screen time from characters I already cared about.


Exactly! I was a bit surprised when I realized this would be her flashback episode. I haven't had much time to form any kind of bond with this character to give one rats @$$ about her one way or the other. Don't love her. Don't hate her. I'm simply not interested in her at this point.

I don't think we have seen enough of Ana Lucia's backstory to say we "like" or "don't like" her. I think the "like" thing is irrelevant. Her character is complex and to me interesting. Before you form an opinion as to what type of person Ana Lucia is you need to see her backstory before the shooting. Inept police department psychologist aside, Ana Lucia is suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. She showed it in her killing of the shooter and of her over reaction to the idiot with the TV. If she was in Australia trying to distance herself from her life in LA, when she ended up on the island and the others took the kids her PTSD was triggered bigtime. Her over-reaction to incidents and her mistrust of the other survivors helped the tailies get to the camp and survive but her behavior was reprehensible. Now can she mesh with the other damaged souls? I doubt it, but it will be interesting to see.

I think Ana, like all the other Losties, is a complex and flawed character (flawed personally, not a poor character-construct). I totally sympathize w/ her over the loss of her child, and how the criminal who shot her basically took away her entire life (husband/bf, and future as a mom). Who knows, maybe she can no longer have children because of the wounds she suffered...

On a side note, I didn't realize until tonight on just how beautiful of a young woman Michelle is...wowza! When she's not snarling or pointing a gun, she's not hard on the eyes at all!:kiss:

Her backstory did nothing to humanize her for me. I saw more of the same behavior.
I think for a cop, she reacted quite irrationally, i mean even after going to a phsycologist for four months.

We never got to see how Ana-Lucia was BEFORE the shooting - it's quite possible she was a sweet, trusting young woman. After all, she did let the guy reach - she felt compassion for him, that he might not be a dealer but was actually a student. She paid dearly for that mistake.

When you've been betrayed or completely fooled by someone or something, you naturally react with anger. In Ana-Lucia's case, she also had the added weight of GUILT since she blamed herself for getting shot and losing her baby. She probably vowed to never trust anyone ever again. And at the time, that seems like a good idea - a way of protecting yourself. But eventually you find that if you don't open up just a little and let people in, you'll be all alone.

Since the shooting happened basically because she let her guard down and let someone else have control of the situation, she is also hell bent on having complete control over everyone and everything. She's afraid if she doesn't disaster will strike.

Everything she has gone through (and is still going through) is classic post-traumatic-stress-disorder. She's paranoid, isolated, and extremely jumpy. It's kind of like what soldiers go through after the war is over. Anyone can experience it to varying degrees depending on the trauma.

Ana-Lucia is not in her right mind so I think these people that HATE her and wish the writers would kill her off are not seeing her true personality. If Sawyer says some weird things or does something dangerous while he is delirious, will they hate him too? Or will they understand that his mind would be playing tricks on him?

It's easier to excuse bad behavior when someone is visibly physically ill but it's the same thing. She's just walking around and appears physically intact - but her mind is not all there.

I'm surprised more people don't see that she is mentally damaged and not just a
b!tch because she feels like being one.

As much as her backstory was devastating and sad, she made a horrible cop and an even worse leader. She is to be a protector, that is <was> her job. She did nothing to protect sawyer or Sayid for that matter. What if the others showed up while sayid was tied to the tree? How could they have gotten him free in time. She murdered shannon - albiet it was a mistake, but how in the hell could you do that, then tie up the slain woman's boyfriend? Shannon died and Sayid's arms.. why didn't AL see that SHE was in the wrong, not Sayid. She's so busy wrapped up in her own ego/survival that she cares for little else. Not everyone is likable, and this is one of them. I think that they will have her come to terms with what occured and find redemption and humility, but until that time I just can't like her.

On a side note, I didn't realize until tonight on just how beautiful of a young woman Michelle is...wowza! When she's not snarling or pointing a gun, she's not hard on the eyes at all!:kiss:

I assume you are talking about how she looked in her flashback...all cleaned and groomed...hair combed, etc? Ironically, I found her to be rather "plain" in her flashback. Not at all attractive. She's much more alluring sporting the natural look!

I assume you are talking about how she looked in her flashback...all cleaned and groomed...hair combed, etc? Ironically, I found her to be rather "plain" in her flashback. Not at all attractive. She's much more alluring sporting the natural look!

No, I meant at the end of the episose when she & Jack had the face-off & they did the close up of her. Wow.

I also agree about never seeing AL before she was shot. I could never imagine her allowing someone to reach behind their back for ID after all the episodes we've seen her in. She must have been a good cop who made a bad decision. Post-traumatic stress disorder indeed.

I'm surprised more people don't see that she is mentally damaged and not just a b!tch because she feels like being one.
Being mentally damaged doesn't give anyone the right to outright kill someone in cold blood and take justice into her own hands.

I agree though, she is messed up mentally and I cannot see how a shrink would have released her back to duty. She needs some serious help and should not in any way be in control of any firearms or weapons.

People don't seem to realize that a character isn't effective without being liked or disliked by the viewers. With the dangers of the island being so abstract (i.e. Others, Pirate-Others, Monster, Whisperers, etc.) then we need to have characters that really do inspire dislike by the audience. What I'm trying to say is we already have enough characters that are liked by the audience, we need a character who is not.

Nonetheless, we are still being overly harsh on Anna Lucia. The writers gave her a soft spot for babies/children and a flirtatious personality. :)

Hey, there is nothing negative in her character that isn't present in other Survivors ...
- killed someone: Sawyer, Sayid, Kate
- specifically revenge killing: Charlie
- mentally unbalanced: Hurley, Locke
- gun happy: Kate, Sawyer, Charlie
- unable to let go of negative emotions: Locke, Sawyer
Admittedly, her concentration of negative character flaws is higher than in the other survivors but she may not have had a proper catharsis yet. Remember that the tail-survivors were too busy simply trying to live while the middle-survivors had more time to *cleanse* their sins. Locke had a bunch of episodes during the first season where he was helping people with their emotional problems; Sawyer, Charlie, Boone, Sayid (indirectly), Jack, himself, etc.

I think it will be most interesting to see where her character goes from here. Now the two groups have met, she'll no longer be the big dog barking at everyone. One of two things will happen: She'll push someone and they'll push back, or, (more likely in my opinion) She'll let go of all her anger, deal with the pain and move on from here. I'm hoping she'll turn out to be more complex than she has been to this point. There is great potential for that.

I also think the way that Jack responded to her name was something - it was more than - oh yah, that's the girl from the airport lounge. It makes me wonder if they hooked up.

I think I like AL...hated her in the beginning, depised her when she shot Shannon...emphathized with her in the Other 48 Days and Collision. I like her because she's strong and isn't afraid to get revenge.

I think I like AL...hated her in the beginning, depised her when she shot Shannon...emphathized with her in the Other 48 Days and Collision. I like her because she's strong and isn't afraid to get revenge.

I still don't like her, and frankly I'm not convinced the writers **want** us to like her. That may change later but right now I'm convinced that my original opinion of her was right: tough on the outside, but on the inside she's a total train wreck with the bridge out.

I do NOT think the writers wanted us to cheer her revenge killing. I think they wanted to prove once and for all that yes, she is indeed way too triggerhappy and has as much business holding a gun as I do piloting the next space shuttle.

A lot of people on her like her and that's all fine and good but I suspect some are making up reasons to like her. The "strong leader" and "full survival mode" arguments were my favorites. This episode made mincemeat out of those arguments. She's supposed to be a leader but when she shoots Shannon, fires at Michael and ties up Sayid, she's not doing that out of survival, she's doing that out of fear. Note that everyone bailed on her at that point, first Eko (when he grabbed Sawyer and headed to the camp) then even Bernard and Libby (Bernard made it clear the "I kept you alive" argument couldn't be held over his head anymore, she was now a danger to everyone). If she was such a strong leader there would have been a lot more loyalty shown. She's not a strong leader, she's just sick. She's lucky Danielle hasn't found her yet.

I think she could be a bitch, but she could be understanding, too...if she knows how the other person feels. Like the girl with the baby and the TV guy. But I don't know if she could feel for anyone that she doesn't relate to.

...That's hilarious. I put the word b*tch in there and they totally changed it to Vincent..I love you guys. lol.

I have no sympathy for AL. She is beyond saving as far as I can tell. She never should have been a cop, and for that matter, her mom is overdue for a little psych leave also. She's not trying to take care of the other surviors, AL is only looking out for AL. The only thing I can say in her favor is that when she and Jack see one another in the jungle at the end of the episode, she looks like just maybe she is having a human emotion--shame. Of course, I have seen that look on my dog's face also and dogs don't feel shame, in a dog that look represents fear of punishment.

Up to this point I thought her bossy and a little crazy....after the backstory I feel she is tuly another "lost" soul....in severe emotional pain and badly in need of some REDEMPTION

she will make a great match with Sawyer

bawstngrl

i wonder if she has daddy issues? (like everyone else on the island)

...That's hilarious. I put the word b*tch in there and they totally changed it to Vincent..I love you guys. lol.

That explains a lot. I've seen people throwing Vincent's name around and I had no idea what was going on!

I would like to post my thoughts on AL:

First I would like to say that I feel really bad disliking a character b/c I know that the actors come on the 'lage and I don't want them in any way to think it relates to them as a person, I mean MR made out with vin diesel, so we have to at least respect her for that:wink3: However I think it is a compliment, because I think we the writers want us to hate Anna Lucia, for now.

So I have to say that I disliked her (AL) at first and then like others during The Other 48 Days I was starting to dislike her less and I was even angry at myself for softening towards her...but then she goes and screws it all up. I think perhaps the writers thought that her backstory would make us more sympathetic, well not me. I mean she shot someone in cold blood (yes I know Sawyer did the same thing, but that is another topic for another day).

So we find out after MUCH hinting that she when she was shot she lost her baby, well don't you think that she would be more sympathetic towards human life and not go waving her gun around every chance she got? If I were her I would never want to touch a gun again. The fact that she lied about her shooter and then went after him and shot him in cold blood made me absolutely hate her and from now on anything she does will make me refer to that moment as a reference point (well she did help some of the tailies, but she did kill a man in cold blood).

Now, let's get to the topic of Shannon...first of all if AL wouldn't have kept Saywer, Jin and Michael prisoner and then beat up an injured man and taken his gun THE SHOOTING WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED!!!!!!! Some could argue it was an accident, well if she didn't steal the gun and then start waving it at the sound of ruffeling leaves then she wouldn't have accidentially shot Shannon now would she? THEN just make herself and even bigger "vincent" she ties us Sayid....How about "I'm sorry"????? She didn't even say once, she didn't even try to apologize, of course the words mean nothing and it won't bring Shannon back, but I think a sincere I'm sorry would have been a lot better than keep Sayid captive and keeping away from Shannon's dead body.

To sum up, I can see no redeeming quality in AL. I would like to pose this question, the look between AL and Jack at the end of the eppy made me think there was more to their relationship than her trying to steal his manhood in the airport bar...Do you think they joined the mile high club before the plane crashed? I mean they were in the air for like 6 hours...it could happen!!

Thanks for reading!!!

PV

I dont mind her, She can be a compleat bitch at times but thats part of who she plays . So she is hear to stay so im willing to put up with her.

This episode was superb! One of my top 3, for sure. Ana is going to be an exciting character and will really add a 'spark' to the group dynamic. As a person, she is an emotional cripple and is capable of 'exploding' at any time. People join law enforcement for many reasons, not all of them 'good' and I think she was just following Momma even though she wasn't suited to the job. Her behavior is what I believe is called 'compensation' - trying too hard, over-reacting, acting authoritarian. Fear (both of failure, and physically) dominates her emotions but she is blind to it. It bothered me that she couldn't apologize to Sayid and admit the mistake.
Michelle really 'sold' me on Ana, what a great performance!
I have said before in another thread that I thought Ana would go to rescue the children which will be her 'salvation'. I feel even more strongly that this will be true, probably after the 6-week holiday hiatus.

The bottom line is we traded Boone/Shannon for Eko/Ana - what a great deal!!!

Oldwiz

Why is it that people never seem to recognize hate as a *bad* trait?

I find it amusing there is so much intense hatred for Ana ... and that she is hated for not being "good".

Dislike is one thing, but good grief there is some raging malice and venom in this thread.

This episode was superb! One of my top 3, for sure. Ana is going to be an exciting character and will really add a 'spark' to the group dynamic. As a person, she is an emotional cripple and is capable of 'exploding' at any time. People join law enforcement for many reasons, not all of them 'good' and I think she was just following Momma even though she wasn't suited to the job. Her behavior is what I believe is called 'compensation' - trying too hard, over-reacting, acting authoritarian. Fear (both of failure, and physically) dominates her emotions but she is blind to it. It bothered me that she couldn't apologize to Sayid and admit the mistake.
Michelle really 'sold' me on Ana, what a great performance!
I have said before in another thread that I thought Ana would go to rescue the children which will be her 'salvation'. I feel even more strongly that this will be true, probably after the 6-week holiday hiatus.

The bottom line is we traded Boone/Shannon for Eko/Ana - what a great deal!!!

Oldwiz

I liked how you said that.

I liked how you said that.


Me too. :) OldWiz rocks, doesn't he. :smile:

I didn't like her until Collision. Now I have neutral feelings towards her. After learning about her shooting, and the fact that she lost her baby...I understand her more.

just out of curiousity how many Females are there on here that hate her?

i'm a dude and i think she's quite hot,:) although very negative and harsh.:mad:

just curious to see what the male/female divide is in liking her/disliking her.

Thanks, Wiz, for so poetically hitting the nail on the head. I'm glad to see I'm not in the minority on this thread. I'm liking Ana's character more and more, warts and all. Sure she's hopelessly flawed, but aren't they all in one way or another? My hope is that Jack finally talks some sense into her, calms her down, and they begin to compare notes about The Others and their experiences on the island. Wouldn't it be cool to see them all get together and finally formulate a real plan for survival. Maybe they'll all get together and go after The Others in an attempt to rescue the kids. And maybe, as you've said, this will be Ana's shot at redemption. They've got plenty of weapons, and people who know how to use them. Who knows, Ana's marksmanship may prove to be a pretty valuable asset for them.

I still don't like her, and frankly I'm not convinced the writers **want** us to like her. That may change later but right now I'm convinced that my original opinion of her was right: tough on the outside, but on the inside she's a total train wreck with the bridge out.

I do NOT think the writers wanted us to cheer her revenge killing. I think they wanted to prove once and for all that yes, she is indeed way too triggerhappy and has as much business holding a gun as I do piloting the next space shuttle.

She's supposed to be a leader but when she shoots Shannon, fires at Michael and ties up Sayid, she's not doing that out of survival, she's doing that out of fear.

No I don't think the writers want us to like her. I think the fact that everyone is talking about her shows how successful she is as a character. In the podcast from last week I think it was Lindehoff who said we might like her better or understand her more once we saw Collision. I don't think that means though that he expected people to just excuse her behaviour. He couldn't exactly say, "After Collision you'll still think she's a psycho nutcase, but you'll understand way." Kind of gives the game away. I think he was just trying to say she'll be interesting as a character without giving too much away.

As far as tying up Sayid, it was out of her own survival. She took revenge so she assumed Sayid would do the same. She's a bad judge of character because her own character is so out of whack and she can't separate others motivations from her own feelings. She has no objectivity or room for the feelings of others unless they are identical to her own.

I think the *character* could have been interesting, if only they'd gotten someone who could actually act. The actress is utterly dire, bad, and devoid of any semblance of talent. Hopefully she won't last long on the show.

Maggie Grace lying there dead has more emotional range than this piece of wood.

Hate the permanent sneer - didn't her mommy tell her her face might get stuck that way.

Thanks, Wiz, for so poetically hitting the nail on the head. I'm glad to see I'm not in the minority on this thread. I'm liking Ana's character more and more, warts and all. Sure she's hopelessly flawed, but aren't they all in one way or another?

Absolutely correct! Most of the major characters (with the exception of Sun) have some deep-seated issue and/or personality flaw that they are trying to deal with. Banshee will smack me for saying this, but the 2 'leaders', Jack and Ana, are the worst in that respect. I can see Ana being able to influence Jack more than Jack influencing Ana. Ana 'knows' what she did, both in the past and present, was wrong. She is experiencing shame right now. I hope Jack helps her, and vice-versa. I think Libby is going to play an important part in the future for both of them.

Oldwiz

As far as tying up Sayid, it was out of her own survival. She took revenge so she assumed Sayid would do the same. She's a bad judge of character because her own character is so out of whack and she can't separate others motivations from her own feelings. She has no objectivity or room for the feelings of others unless they are identical to her own.

Exactly. She assumes everyone will do what she did. Jason accidentally killed someone she loved (the unborn child) so she killed him. She accidentally killed Shannon, who Sayid loved, so she assumes he will kill her just as she killed Jason. She's totally messed up. That said...she fits right in. :)

I don't hate her as a charector..I feel as if she is being thrust upon us as someone we need to like and or appreciate and that it has had a direct 180 from that.

You cannot like every charector. You HAVE to have a charector or two that inspire totally different feelings. If they were all middle of the road then nobody would watch.

Like her or not...in her way and her world she is helping the rest of the survivors. She is doing it the only way she can and that is her way. Abrasive? Controling? Yes..but she kept a lot of people alive with her brazen leadership skills.

Where does she go from here? About the only path is toward Jack. I hope they have a compelling story for her to be involved in and not continue to portray her as a violent, angry person with mental baggage. Because in reality...they all have that baggage...they all have thin lines between sane and insane at this moment...they all are about to snap. Eko and Locke have a lot of work to do...

Where does she go from here? About the only path is toward Jack. I hope they have a compelling story for her to be involved in and not continue to portray her as a violent, angry person with mental baggage. Because in reality...they all have that baggage...they all have thin lines between sane and insane at this moment...they all are about to snap. Eko and Locke have a lot of work to do...

Don't forget the children! That is Ana's road to redemption. When the Tailee's tell their story to the Lostee's, I think there is going to be an upswell of outrage and a 'rescue party' will be formed. Michael will certainly will hear about Walt (if Sayid doesn't tell him, it will be the most outrageous 'plot device' since Claire 'lost her memory'...).

I think that within the next few episodes we will have at least 2 groups on separate missions (the Children/Others and the hatches/Dharma). That ought to keep us busy and confused...

Oldwiz

Wow! There's an awful lot of Ana hate in the house! I can understand her forceful attitude rubbing people the wrong way, but a lot of people seem like they could happily munch popcorn while watching her being drawn & quartered, disemboweled & burned at the stake!

Her asking Sayid if he had kids really hit me. It seemed like more than *poor pitiful me. Somebody shot me & I lost a baby.* She was shot four times. Four gunshot wounds can do an awful lot of damage.

I got the feeling that she didn't merely (not that it would be a small thing) lose a baby she was carrying, but that perhaps she was also damaged in some way which would prevent her from ever having children. That would seem to fit better w/ her "I'm already dead." comment. & apparently it also had something to do w/ her losing her boyfriend (husband?) as well. I've never heard of someone leaving someone because they got shot ... unless the shooting caused some kind of irrepairable damage. (like Sarah's fiance)

Losing a baby doesn't break most women. It's horrible, but they eventually get over it. At least well enough to function normally. But losing a baby & the ability to produce any more is a completely different (& much more difficult to cope w/) thing.

In that situation, I can easily see her (or me) coldly firing six shots into the person who did that to me.
I think the only reason she asked Sayid about whether or not he had kids was to decide, as he said, whether or not to kill him. Too little, too late for me. Whether or not she can have more children does not justify her actions. She had the law on her side & if she really wanted justice (& not revenge), she'd have let the law take that creep & put him in prison (& most likely death row). Even though there are a lot of people here that think they'd do the same thing (me included), the fact that she was a cop makes all the difference in the world! When a private citizen comes up against something like what happened to AL they are in fear that the system will fail them. But when something like that happens to a police officer, the system never lets them down. Shoot a copy & go to prison or worse. She doesn't have the justification or need to have taken the law into her own hands. Pure & simple. & she learned nothing from her actions. She lost the right to be a cop, didn't get her baby or the baby's father back, & hates herself now.
I'm guessing she will be the new leader of the Lostaways.

Just watch, you laugh now, but I am right. Jack doesn't want the role as leader. Ana does, & will seize it w/ relish.
If that happens I will have a serious problem w/ watching the show anymore. That would take the show into a direction that I do not want to join. I would monitor the eppys for Locke & Desmond centric shows & tune in for those but not the whole series as I will not enjoy seeing her take over what was a show that always left me feeling good at the end of an eppy ... even when bad things happened. When I watch eppys that have her as the main focus, I end the show feeling angry, frustrated & totally down. I don't need that for "entertainment," thank you.
Honestly? I can't add anything else to what you already said. I agree 100%. I'm pretty passionate about my opinion on this because I come from a family of cops & I will be one myself as soon as I go through the academy & it's cops like Ana Lucia that give the rest of us a bad name. I know it's a terrible thing to lose a baby especially in the way it happened but she took that risk by being a police officer & being out there on the job. I also don't see it as any excuse to continue to take her feelings out on everyone else on the island. Everyone there has experienced hard times & most have painful pasts but they at least know when to work together & act nicely or at the very least civily towards each other. I thought Ana Lucia's storyline would make me like her more but it had the opposite effect.
I am SO happy that you posted! It's awesome to hear from someone that has the experience of cop life. I've had my run-ins w/ bad cops myself & still feel that they deserve my loyalty due to the fact that they place themselves on the line every day to protect me. BUT when a copy clearly shows that they have no respect for their duties or their badge, I'm not going to feel for them or try to understand them. What they do is stressful ... no need to even say that as it's a given ... but once they are no longer balanced, they need to be removed. Keeping them on duty simply because they're a copy or there's a shortage of cops, etc., is a poor judgement call. That said, the Captain needs to have herself evaluated as well. To take the stand she did by giving into her daughter shows that she is too close to the situation & the transfer should have been granted. Mamma needs to not be mamma on the job. If she can't do that, then she needs to resign or transfer AL.
It seems from what I'm reading here that overall - people's existing feelings toward AL were mostly reinforced by her story- rather than changed to a more positive view which was pretty much what I expected the intent of the story to be (making her more likeable or understood that is). There's lots of excellent points in this thread. But if the intent was to make her a more likeable character - I think that overall - it didn't work.

There's several parts to why I don't like her - & the overwhelming influence for me is her actions. As I said in an earlier post, 2 wrongs don't make a right. I think for me, the clincher is that she was a cop - perhaps if she had a different career I could have felt more sympathy & understanding toward her vigilante actions. No matter how bad her personal experiences were - & yes, what happened to her was bad - there's just no way I can balance that w/ her actions - both from her past & from the present (on the island). & again, that's not to say I don't understand her actions or why she acts the way she does. But because I know she was a cop - it makes it that much more reprehensible.

There's nothing else I care to know about her at this point. I'm hoping the focus will be on other characters & the unanswered questions that have been presented. I think the best thing would have been to give her the supplies she ordered Micheal to bring her & let her have a good 40+ days alone to review her past actions. Libby could carefully go to her weekly & they could talk about it all (off camera).
I agree w/ you 110%! I was hoping that they'd let her go off into the jungle & have her alone time but now that she's going to be brought into the camp of the mid-section lostaways ... I don't like it at all. & if they pair her up w/ Jack, who has nothing in common w/ her other than baggage, it's going to be unbelievable & a "jump the shark" moment for me.
I think Ana is just about done acting that way. Killing Shannon talking to Syaid. The talk w/ Jack that hasn't happend yet. I have a feeling she is going to mellow now. I think she finally has regreats. Something she was lacking until now.
I didn't see any sign of regrets. What I saw was clearly just "I've lost the battle." Not the same thing. She might have regrets but, for me, it's too little too late.
I don't think we have seen enough of Ana Lucia's backstory to say we "like" or "don't like" her. I think the "like" thing is irrelevant. Her character is complex & to me interesting. Before you form an opinion as to what type of person Ana Lucia is you need to see her backstory before the shooting. Inept police department psychologist aside, Ana Lucia is suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. She showed it in her killing of the shooter & of her over reaction to the idiot w/ the TV. If she was in Australia trying to distance herself from her life in LA, when she ended up on the island & the others took the kids her PTSD was triggered bigtime. Her over-reaction to incidents & her mistrust of the other survivors helped the tailies get to the camp & survive but her behavior was reprehensible. Now can she mesh w/ the other damaged souls? I doubt it, but it will be interesting to see.
If they show her to be a nice person before she was shot that will just make me like her even less! When she was in counseling, I had the strong feeling that she was saying anything the doctor wanted her to say so she could get back on the force. She had, in my mind, it all planned out. She was too quick to decide that the jerk that shot her was not the guy. It just seemed that she had waited for that moment so they'd have to let him go so she could hunt him down & kill him herself. She may be just plain crazy, but that doesn't excuse her actions & doesn't make her someone I want to even try to like. Crazy isn't justification for bad actions, it's justification for being put in a mental hospital.

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST. THIS WAS TOO LONG FOR ONE POST.

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST. WAS TOO LONG FOR ONE POST.

People don't seem to realize that a character isn't effective w/out being liked or disliked by the viewers. w/ the dangers of the island being so abstract (i.e. Others, Pirate-Others, Monster, Whisperers, etc.) then we need to have characters that really do inspire dislike by the audience. What I'm trying to say is we already have enough characters that are liked by the audience, we need a character who is not. >snip<
>>Hey, there is nothing negative in her character that isn't present in other Survivors ...
- killed someone: Sawyer, Sayid, Kate
- specifically revenge killing: Charlie
- mentally unbalanced: Hurley, Locke
- gun happy: Kate, Sawyer, Charlie
- unable to let go of negative emotions: Locke, Sawyer<<
---Sawyer, Sayid & Kate killed someone ... but they have shown us the remorse of their actions. AL has not even come close.
---Charlie killed Ethan for revenge. There is no legal system on the island as there was w/ AL. Not the same thing at all.
---Hurley & Locke are mentally unbalanced? I think that's your opinion & no proof of that has been given to us. Just because Hurley was in a mental hosp. does not mean he's mentally unlanaced. He might have been in there for depression. & just because Locke doese some things that some don't agree w/ does not mean he's menatlly unbalanced.
---Kate, Sawyer & Charlie are gun happy? Again, no legal system on the island. In this situation, they have to take the "law" into their own hands. Not the same as w/ AL.
---Locke can't let go of negative emotions? He's the most positive thinking character on the island. He always looks for the good in someone, not the bad. Now Jack, there's someone that can't let go of negative emotions.
I also think the way that Jack responded to her name was something - it was more than - oh yah, that's the girl from the airport lounge. It makes me wonder if they hooked up.
Personally, I thought it very odd that he remembered her at all from that brief encounter. You might have something there.
Why is it that people never seem to recognize hate as a *bad* trait?

I find it amusing there is so much intense hatred for Ana ... & that she is hated for not being "good".

Dislike is one thing, but good grief there is some raging malice & venom in this thread.
sheba, I'm not one of those people that buys into the belief that "hate" is a bad thing. The word exists for a reason & it is to represent a very strong emotion. Hate, loathe, abhor ... they're all the same emotion but, for some reason, only hate calls up the "it's a bad trait." True, none of these emotions should be tossed around carelessly but in my case, AL calls up such a gut-wrenching, nasty taste in my mouth that I have no choice but to use this word. I truly hate the character. If she were in my real life, I'd do everything I could in my power to get as far away from her as I could.

I'm "good" on Ana. I think she's a fascinating character and I was literally waiting for this episode starting at, like, 9:05 last week (right after the other one went off). Let me tell you, that hasn't happened since last season. I've been enjoying the show, sure - but the biting-my-nails anticipation was back. Don't get me wrong - I think Ana is incredibly messed up. This episode just drove that home - she killed that guy in cold-blood, no question. It came from a messed-up place but it was still murder.

But, I've never been in the "hated her" camp. As someone pointed out earlier with the Lostaways' rap sheet, she's certainly not in the "Issues" corner by herself. For me, the key is whether or not I can see cracks in the character. They aren't either all good or all bad. If they are crazy and trigger-happy, there's something else going on under the surface. And I've seen that in Ana from her first episode this season.

This week took a big step in explaining why she is the way she is - and I think it did a great job. I think we've seen that she is smart, even if her perception and judgment are just all screwed up right now. When she (finally) got Goodwin's number, she was dead on. Not only was she dead on, but she confronted him away from the group, on her own - she put herself on the line to try to protect them in case things went south (which they did). She was absolutely calm when she helped Bernard out of the tree. Her initial instincts to get off the beach turned out to be good, as was her plan to go into the pit to find out who the Lostaways were. Half of me says she'd be useful to have around in a crisis (assuming there were no firearms involved). She's willing to take risks that other people might flinch at - she's put herself on the line first several times in just the few episodes she's been in. When you look at those traits, you can see how she ended up as a cop. She has a protective nature, even if it's a fierce one.

And we're not even talking story prospects here. She has the potential to mix it up with the other Lostaways in a major way. There's already friction with Sayid. Jin and Michael think she's a lunatic. There's the issue of how Jack will react. There's the question of how Sawyer will relate to her if/when he finds out what she did (since it's very similar to what he did with NotSawyerGuy). How will Locke interact with her? How will she get along with the other Alpha female, Kate? In any case, Ana's one of the reasons I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season. While I may not want to hang out with her just yet - I'm "good" on her as a character in need of a hand to help pull her up from rock-bottom. I'm curious to see who it will be. I think it would be a cool twist if it turned out to be Sayid. I don't know how it would happen but I think it was obvious that he related to the breakdown he saw her going through and he knows a little about inner torment.

I understand that she could rub people the wrong way but I think she was a good addition to the show. I think she has to pay (is paying?) for her crimes and mistakes. But I'd say the same thing about Sawyer or Sayid or Kate. I'll be interested to see where Ana's road to redemption starts.

. I think it would be a cool twist if it turned out to be Sayid. I don't know how it would happen but I think it was obvious that he related to the breakdown he saw her going through and he knows a little about inner torment.
.

Indeed...very good post all the way around, she is a complex character...both her and Sayid went against what their respective jobs represented to do something that meant more to them personally than their jobs...we may look at his choice as more noble but both actions by them two come from the rawest of emotions....she didn't use the badge to exact revenge on her child's killer but went as a vigilante...that doesn't exactly make it ok but I think it's important to note she didn't act under the auspices of "abusing power given to her by socieity"....

Cops for example are held to the highest standards but they are human and as such aren't always going to act the way we think they should....I agree she was ticking time bomb by continuing to stay in uniform and allowed to stay on patrol duty...I think she tried in a sense to "go back" to the way it was before but by blowing up at the tv domestic dispute guy made her realize it could never be the same and to her, she had to do something else to deal with the pain....

She chose the darker path....whether you agree with her choice or not, it was her to make alone...it was apparent to me that AL understands committing revenge did not heal her....again, she's flawed, they all are....

As to her being a sociopath or psychopath, those two classes are utterly devoid of conscious...she isn't as it was apparent during her whole inner war with herself on how to deal with Sayid as well as her asking to be punished, ie killed by Sayid...revenge is a never ending cycle that they both know makes it worse....that's why I completely agree she has much potential because her path is starting so far back....

Wanted to comment on Ana taking leadership from Jack...someone stated that he would happily relinquish leadership because he never wanted it in the first place. Personally, I think that's just a lie he tells himself. He NEEDS to be the leader. He can't help it. And there will be a power struggle. Just my little old opinion. :)

I've always hated AL for being the powermad and paranoid bitch she is, but her showing absolutely NO remorse whatsoever for executing an innocent girl? That was just frightening.

Also, Eko let me down big time in this episode. I know they've been through a lot but, come one, the woman is clearly demented. She killed an unarmed girl at point blank, is holding her boyfriend a hostage AND is making a bunch of blithering demands. Not to mention all that pistolwielding against Michael and Libby.

Protect and serve my ***.

Also, Eko let me down big time in this episode. I know they've been through a lot but, come one, the woman is clearly demented. She killed an unarmed girl at point blank, is holding her boyfriend a hostage AND is making a bunch of blithering demands. Not to mention all that pistolwielding against Michael and Libby.

Protect and serve my ***.

How did Eko let you down?

Because I had faith in him, if anyone, to do the right thing, in this case being apprehending AL and making sure she wouldn't be able to hurt anymore innocent people. First Nathan, then Shannon and now Sayid? I hated his whole condonable and tolerant approach to AL's actions.

Ana Lucia is very complex. I agree with the Post-Traumatic Stress disorder. I do not think that she would be accepted in a leadership role BY ANY Losties.

She will have to do penance.

Sayid will not find forgiveness simple (I think Sayid will note be able to work to and through forgiveness for months).

Ana Lucia is very complex. I agree with the Post-Traumatic Stress disorder. I do not think that she would be accepted in a leadership role BY ANY Losties.

She will have to do penance.

Sayid will not find forgiveness simple (I think Sayid will note be able to work to and through forgiveness for months).
That's what I think, too about Sayid. If Shannon had been someone he was attracted to or even liked as a friend, it would be hard enough. But they had professed their love and then she gets killed. For anyone to think that he'd then hook-up with Shannon's murderer is just beyond belief! Sayid has loyality and he will be loyal to Shannon. Hooking up with AL would be the ultimate betrayal of Shannon's memory.
Wanted to comment on Ana taking leadership from Jack...someone stated that he would happily relinquish leadership because he never wanted it in the first place. Personally, I think that's just a lie he tells himself. He NEEDS to be the leader. He can't help it. And there will be a power struggle. Just my little old opinion. :)
I agree. Jack is in a lot of denial and leadership is just one of the things he won't admit to himself. And while I haven't agreed with some of the ways he's handled some things, I sure would pick him over AL any day of the year!
Because I had faith in him, if anyone, to do the right thing, in this case being apprehending AL and making sure she wouldn't be able to hurt anymore innocent people. First Nathan, then Shannon and now Sayid? I hated his whole condonable and tolerant approach to AL's actions.
Me, too. I was really let down first when he fought Sayid to protect AL and then when he would not help Jack go to her unless he went alone and with no guns. Sure, those two have been through a lot. But he knew by then about Sayid and Shannon and that AL was out of line. Why keep trying to protect her?

I don´t know what to think about her.

In The Other 48 Days I quite liked her.. but now again she just freaked me out! She´s always overreacting and can´t control herself. But no one stops her.

First Nathan, then Shannon and now Sayid? I hated his whole condonable and tolerant approach to AL's actions.

Ditto.

Wow. I started out not caring one way or the other about her. Part of me felt that we don't have enough info to make a judgment about her yet (considering how Lost lays things out) and part of me felt that I haven't formed any kind of bond to care about how she got to be the way she is/appears to be. But you guys are convincing me that I should lean toward the "hater" side.

Like someone said (sorry...don't remember who)...she lied about Jason being the right guy so she could kill him herself. She threw Nathan - the wrong guy - in the pit and all but tortured him. She shot Shannon (likely out of fear...I'll give her that) and showed no remorse, no guilt. Only fear for her own miserable self that Sayid will kill her. So she ties him up with intentions of killing him too.

Yea, I feel bad she lost the baby. But, come on!

Ana Lucia. Ana Lucia. Well, let me put it this way...

She is a hot-headed, irrational, trigger-happy, obnoxious, power tripping dictator; a pathological liar; a guilt tripper, a psychopath, a coward, a hypocrite with the maturity of a toddler and the moral standards of a dog. Actually that's an insult to dogs... think preying mantis or black widow. Self preservation at any cost.



Wow, you're so wrong it's not even funny. She's not hot headed...she's strained and spent emotionally. Trigger happy? Why is everyone calling her that? She shot what she thought was an attacker, that's being better safe then sorry, I think anyone would have done that in her situation. Trigger happy is when you go around over and over shooting incorrectly and wrongly at people. She knows how to hand a gun and when to do so, the only reason she shot Shannon was she tought she was an Other. Liar? What has she lied about? A guilt tripper? Why, b/c she thought she'd get loyalty from people she's risked her life to keep alive for over a month. Libby and Bernard, however more stable personalities, are cowards....not her. Ana saved peoples' lives after the crash, yet no one gives her credit. They looked to her for answers and put her in charge by doing so. She told them what to do and they consistently ignored/opposed her and EVERYTIME they did they were taken/killed. She is a good, heroin....who had a snap, an emotional break, and she lost it and went crazy for a moment....so frickin what. From everything else she's done for those people, they should be supporting her no matter how crazy she gets....they would be DEAD if it weren't for her. And yet, she FINALLY breaks and need someone to help her through it and everyone abandons her. Sorry you can't see that.

WOW, pitchblank! What an awesome post! You said it all so perfectly. I totally agree that finding out who's under all that baggage is just not going to do it ... sure not for me and you! I really think TPTB just took this character too far into the 'dark side.' There's just no coming back for me.

Wow, you're so wrong it's not even funny. She's not hot headed...she's strained and spent emotionally. Trigger happy? Why is everyone calling her that? She shot what she thought was an attacker, that's being better safe then sorry, I think anyone would have done that in her situation. Trigger happy is when you go around over and over shooting incorrectly and wrongly at people. She knows how to hand a gun and when to do so, the only reason she shot Shannon was she tought she was an Other. Liar? What has she lied about? A guilt tripper? Why, b/c she thought she'd get loyalty from people she's risked her life to keep alive for over a month. Libby and Bernard, however more stable personalities, are cowards....not her. Ana saved peoples' lives after the crash, yet no one gives her credit. They looked to her for answers and put her in charge by doing so. She told them what to do and they consistently ignored/opposed her and EVERYTIME they did they were taken/killed. She is a good, heroin....who had a snap, an emotional break, and she lost it and went crazy for a moment....so frickin what. From everything else she's done for those people, they should be supporting her no matter how crazy she gets....they would be DEAD if it weren't for her. And yet, she FINALLY breaks and need someone to help her through it and everyone abandons her. Sorry you can't see that.
Sorry you can't see how you've been hoodwinked just like the tailies were until they saw what she was really like.

She saved them? Uh and how was that? By taking them into the very jungle where the enemy lives? And she wasn't given the leadership, she took it. Bernard and Libby are cowards? Why? Because Bernard wanted to see his wife and Libby (the psychologist) saw that AL was out of control and making one bad call after another? When did she lie? Well, she lied about who killed Goodwin. She lead Michael and Jin to believe the Others killed him and that leads me to think that she also let her group believe it. Why? To keep them scared and looking to her for leadership. She lied to Sayid about her past and after he opened up to her ... the woman that killed his Shannon, hit him over the head and had him tied to a tree. Why do we say she's trigger happy? Because she shot before she knew who or what she was shooting at, that's why. That's what trigger happy is. Shoot first, ask questions later. The Others don't have guns, why was she so quick to shoot? Because she's making poor judgement calls, just like Libby said. And as for her saving the tailies ... Mr. Eko would have done a much better job but she took command without any discussion. Bad cop all the way and bad person, too.

WOW, pitchblank! What an awesome post! You said it all so perfectly. I totally agree that finding out who's under all that baggage is just not going to do it ... sure not for me and you! I really think TPTB just took this character too far into the 'dark side.' There's just no coming back for me.

What's dark about what she's done? Wake up and smell reality, stepping on a injured guy and getting too bossy....how is that such a defining thing for you people? That's insanity.

Anyway, Ana Lucia is the definition of a tragic hero. Look it up, she fits the mold to a tee....and i think it's brilliantly written and acted.

"The tragic hero will most effectively evoke both our pity and terror if he is neither thoroughly good nor thoroughly evil but a combination of both.

The tragic effect will be stronger if the hero is "better than we are," in that he is of higher than ordinary moral worth. Such a man is shown as suffering a change in fortune from happiness to misery because of a mistaken act, to which he is led by his hamartia (his "effort of judgment") or, as it is often literally translated, his tragic flaw.
One common form of hamartia in Greek tragedies was hubris, that "pride" or overweening self-confidance which leads a protagonist to disregard a divine warning or to violate an important law.

Definition of a Tragic Hero
A tragic hero has the potential for greatness but is doomed to fail. He is trapped in a situation where he cannot win. He makes some sort of tragic flaw, and this causes his fall from greatness. Even though he is a fallen hero, he still wins a moral victory, and his spirit lives on.

TRAGIC HEROES ARE:

BORN INTO NOBILITY:

RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN FATE

ENDOWED WITH A TRAGIC FLAW

DOOMED TO MAKE A SERIOUS ERROR IN JUDGEMENT

EVENTUALLY, TRAGIC HEROES

FALL FROM GREAT HEIGHTS OR HIGH ESTEEM

REALIZE THEY HAVE MADE AN IRREVERSIBLE MISTAKE

FACES AND ACCEPTS DEATH WITH HONOR

MEET A TRAGIC DEATH

FOR ALL TRAGIC HEROES


THE AUDIENCE IS AFFECTED BY PITY and/or FEAR That is Ana Lucia to a tee.

WOW, pitchblank! What an awesome post! You said it all so perfectly. I totally agree that finding out who's under all that baggage is just not going to do it ... sure not for me and you! I really think TPTB just took this character too far into the 'dark side.' There's just no coming back for me.

I'm still trying to figure out where I stand. How is A-L further into the dark side than Sayid...who tortured people for a living? Or Sawyer who spent his whole life's energy on finding the man (to kill him) who basically killed his parents and ruined his life?

What's dark about what she's done? Wake up and smell reality, stepping on a injured guy and getting too bossy....how is that such a defining thing for you people? That's insanity.

Anyway, Ana Lucia is the definition of a tragic hero. Look it up, she fits the mold to a tee....and i think it's brilliantly written and acted.

"The tragic hero will most effectively evoke both our pity and terror if he is neither thoroughly good nor thoroughly evil but a combination of both.

The tragic effect will be stronger if the hero is "better than we are," in that he is of higher than ordinary moral worth. Such a man is shown as suffering a change in fortune from happiness to misery because of a mistaken act, to which he is led by his hamartia (his "effort of judgment") or, as it is often literally translated, his tragic flaw.
One common form of hamartia in Greek tragedies was hubris, that "pride" or overweening self-confidance which leads a protagonist to disregard a divine warning or to violate an important law.

Definition of a Tragic Hero
A tragic hero has the potential for greatness but is doomed to fail. He is trapped in a situation where he cannot win. He makes some sort of tragic flaw, and this causes his fall from greatness. Even though he is a fallen hero, he still wins a moral victory, and his spirit lives on.

TRAGIC HEROES ARE:

BORN INTO NOBILITY:

RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN FATE

ENDOWED WITH A TRAGIC FLAW

DOOMED TO MAKE A SERIOUS ERROR IN JUDGEMENT

EVENTUALLY, TRAGIC HEROES

FALL FROM GREAT HEIGHTS OR HIGH ESTEEM

REALIZE THEY HAVE MADE AN IRREVERSIBLE MISTAKE

FACES AND ACCEPTS DEATH WITH HONOR

MEET A TRAGIC DEATH

FOR ALL TRAGIC HEROES


THE AUDIENCE IS AFFECTED BY PITY and/or FEAR That is Ana Lucia to a tee.


Parts of this could apply to Locke. Or Jack.

Sayid was in the Republican Guard and caught up in the mass psychosis of warfare. To this day he hears the voices of all those he tortured. He left the camp out of shame for what he did to Sawyer - with the intention of never returning - and 40 days later it still pains him.

Ana Lucia was a cop. Her job was the polar opposite of Sayid's "job". She wanted to leave the group not out of shame or guilt, but for her own personal safety, thus displaying not only a blatant lack of empathy and remorse but also implying that nobody else has done enough to be worthy of her trust. As if the burden of proof was on THEM.



I think you answered your own question there.

I actually see more of a parallel with Sawyer and A-L. He seeks revenge on the man who took the life of his parents (indirectly) and she seeks revenge on the man who took the life of her child.

What's dark about what she's done? Wake up and smell reality, stepping on a injured guy and getting too bossy....how is that such a defining thing for you people? That's insanity.

Anyway, Ana Lucia is the definition of a tragic hero. Look it up, she fits the mold to a tee....and i think it's brilliantly written and acted.

"The tragic hero will most effectively evoke both our pity and terror if he is neither thoroughly good nor thoroughly evil but a combination of both.

The tragic effect will be stronger if the hero is "better than we are," in that he is of higher than ordinary moral worth. Such a man is shown as suffering a change in fortune from happiness to misery because of a mistaken act, to which he is led by his hamartia (his "effort of judgment") or, as it is often literally translated, his tragic flaw.
One common form of hamartia in Greek tragedies was hubris, that "pride" or overweening self-confidance which leads a protagonist to disregard a divine warning or to violate an important law.

Definition of a Tragic Hero
A tragic hero has the potential for greatness but is doomed to fail. He is trapped in a situation where he cannot win. He makes some sort of tragic flaw, and this causes his fall from greatness. Even though he is a fallen hero, he still wins a moral victory, and his spirit lives on.

TRAGIC HEROES ARE:

BORN INTO NOBILITY:

RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN FATE

ENDOWED WITH A TRAGIC FLAW

DOOMED TO MAKE A SERIOUS ERROR IN JUDGEMENT

EVENTUALLY, TRAGIC HEROES

FALL FROM GREAT HEIGHTS OR HIGH ESTEEM

REALIZE THEY HAVE MADE AN IRREVERSIBLE MISTAKE

FACES AND ACCEPTS DEATH WITH HONOR

MEET A TRAGIC DEATH

FOR ALL TRAGIC HEROES


THE AUDIENCE IS AFFECTED BY PITY and/or FEAR That is Ana Lucia to a tee.
Weeel, see there has to be that good & bad element to be this kind of character and I don't see the goodness. So, nope, don't think your research did the job you were trying to do.
I'm still trying to figure out where I stand. How is A-L further into the dark side than Sayid...who tortured people for a living? Or Sawyer who spent his whole life's energy on finding the man (to kill him) who basically killed his parents and ruined his life?
Sayid was in a "job" that required him to do what he did and he regrets it to this day. AL's job was to do the opposite and she didn't and has shown no regret.

Sawyer did what he did, and it was wrong, but even the look on his face when he understood he'd killed the wrong man showed he had remorse right there on the spot. And again, Sawyer was not a cop and being a cop, whether we like it or not, does make a difference. What would the world be like if citizens and the police took the law into their own hands? I shudder to even try to imagine it!

What if Sawyer had killed the right person? Then, im pretty sure he wouldn't have regretted it. And I also heard somone say AL was worse because she was doing it in revange.....wasn't that the reason Sawyer wanted to kill for?

What if Sawyer had killed the right person? Then, im pretty sure he wouldn't have regretted it. And I also heard somone say AL was worse because she was doing it in revange.....wasn't that the reason Sawyer wanted to kill for?

Exactly!

When has it ever been stated AL WANTED to kill more people because of the criminal?

Well my thoughts at this point in time is, yes they did make her character more interesting with the last episode. But I still think it was a major mistake type casting her into the “tough chick” role she always plays. I’m also still thinking it was a mistake having her on the show at all. I get so pissed every time I see her and I get even more upset when she starts ordering everyone around. Come on, what makes her so special? But I’m going to try and keep an open mind considering the last twist with her flash back in this last episode.

AL's bloodthirst should be satisfied at this point, but no.

I see your point.

Ana Lucia freaked out...She turned into a scary person pointing a gun at Libby and Bernard...They considered her one of them, but suddenly she acts irrate...that made them catious. I also think she herself realized this after hearing Sayids words.

She seemed a bit scared of her self once they are alone in forest.

She obviously once was a good girl, and an achiever, trying to make her mother proud as a cop, following in her footsteps...then she looses a baby due to the firefight where she gets shot, Boyfriend leaves her...And in the ID session at police station claims it isnt him so she can get her revenge, and then kills the guy that shot her. Im not sure if she is still a cop at this time...but obviously it seems she leaves the police at some time. Was she ever convicted for the murder ? Did she quit voluntarily or kicked off the force...maybe she did time in prison. The moment with her and Jack in the forest has some significance to what she is gonna be about from now on.

Either way this has made her somewhat unstable emotionally.
Anyone who saw Collision would agree to that.

She's not a bad person, she just act out of her own mind, first and foremost, without giving anyone elses concerns any consideration. Survival is everything to her...she has no deeper aspirations yet. She had a good moment with Jack in Sydney Airport Bar.

She never smiled much in her flashback. I can see from her point what she may find attractive in Jack. He seem to have alot of qualities she can admire, and she gets Jack, since he is driven, like her. But somehow, knowing what the rest of us know about Dr.Jack, is that he is headstrong and always know's best, all very similar to her. The other Losties are much much easier to like.

She sees herself as dead...but she fights hard to live.

She sees herself as dead...but she fights hard to live.

I thought that very same thing.

As a person who has tried to act confident despite pain, who has had to lead when she didn't want to, and has acted irrationally and regretted it immensely... I totally identify with her.

Do I like her? I dunno; I don't like those things about myself. But I don't hate her. At all.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because so and so killed someone - it's not ok for anyone else to do the same. Duplicate actions from 2 people don't cancel out the actions for both. If both you and I both kill someone - it doesn't make it acceptable for Joe to kill someone also - or make our actions less than what they are. Just as if someone kills my child -as horrible as that is - I still don't earn the right to kill the killer.

NO matter how hard I try, I cant understand why there are some people that just excuse everything this character has done - and make excuses for it all. Comparing her actions to other characters is a futile attempt at making excuses. Her actions and personality speak for themselves. If you find her actions justifiable and believe the things she has done are appropriate - something a rational person would have done - then thats one thing. Everyone has a standard to follow in life - and intent is one of many - intent is a crucial element in determining if certain acts were criminal. Any killing which is deliberate and premeditated - where there is intent - is murder. BUT - that's not in and of itself a reason to dislike AL - or any other character. Several characters are obviously guilty of murder. So by no means does my feelings regarding AL have to do solely with this action. Its one of many things.

I'll say this again in this post - I think the actress MR is doing a phenomenal job. I'd go as far as to say I think her performance of AL is probably what I consider to be one of the best performances of the cast. Its irrelevant to me what she's played in the past or will play in the future - I am not actor driven - and usually can't tell you what roles someone has played or what I've seen them in. Just as if I enjoy her portrayal in this role, doesn't mean I'll like her characters in other show or movies - the actor is simply playing a part - and I do think she is doing a fantastic job playing this part. Having said that, I can't understand why fans of hers are in an outrage that people have strong feelings against this character.

I can't understand the futile attempts at justifying the actions we've seen.

Wow, you're so wrong it's not even funny. She's not hot headed...she's strained and spent emotionally. Trigger happy? Why is everyone calling her that? She shot what she thought was an attacker, that's being better safe then sorry, I think anyone would have done that in her situation. Trigger happy is when you go around over and over shooting incorrectly and wrongly at people. .

There's quite a bit of "understanding Ana" philosophy running rampant. I'm all for understanding and helping someone who needs help, but there's also a bottom line with actions. We see it every day in society. Ana is guilty of murder, and manslaughter. Murder for her flashback execution, manslaughter in the death of Shannon. Understand her all you want, but the bottom line is there is no excuse for either of those actions. Trigger happy means more than just running around firing randomly. It also means firing without knowing what your target is. She barely had time to catch sight of Shannon before killing her. You can debate it all you want, but in any court of law, Ana would do time. That's the bottom line.

And for those who call her character "forceful". It's not. She's borderline insane.

NO matter how hard I try, I cant understand why there are some people that just excuse everything this character has done - and make excuses for it all. Comparing her actions to other characters is a futile attempt at making excuses.

[/FONT]

I'm not making any excuses. I agree that she's outta control. I was just wondering why people aren't saying the same bad things about other characters who've done similar bad things.

Because

1) In some perverted way we can identify with them on some level,
2) None of them were on the right side of the law to begin with,
3) They have all expressed remorse in some way or other.
4) They appear to be learning from their mistakes.

None of points 1-4 apply to AL.

I don't know about #1. I suppose I agree on #3 and #4. But #2? Sounds like you're saying that being on the wrong side of the law makes it all okay! :confused:

good thread lostpack...i agree that i was neutral on ana lucia in the beginning, did not like her, (the character) in the middle...i did like her scenes with ecko..battle of the wills...but ana lucia in the end really came through and totally explained her actions, reactions, mistakes, and bad decisions...and i have to give michelle rodriguez her props she did a remarkable job givig the character her wings
skybluelost:-))

Because

1) In some perverted way we can identify with them on some level,
2) None of them were on the right side of the law to begin with,
3) They have all expressed remorse in some way or other.
4) They appear to be learning from their mistakes.

None of points 1-4 apply to AL.

Those are totally false.
1. I can identify with her. She protects and helps and gets nothing in return but doubt and abandonment. Also, I'm sure there's a lot of people out there, parents specfically that can comepletely understand her emptying her clip on that guy.
2. ? what ?
3. No remorse? She almost cried about Shannon, she had a freakin emotional breakdown over the guilt/trauma of the accidental death, etc.
4. She didn't kill Sayid. She could have slit his throat/shot him and taken off into the jungle like Danielle and there you go.

None of those points make sense or go with anything that's actually been shown on screen.

She's very neutral with me. I hated her... hated her so much in the beginning. Then, when we saw all that happened to them, the tailies that is, is what made me feel better about her. Then with the "I'm so alone thing" made me pissed off at her again. Then with the Sayid thing... GOD! She's so random at times! But she killed Shannon... so that makes me mad at her. I'm torn.

Wow! There hasn't been this much fun since Sayid/Jack tortured Sawyer! For those of you that think Ana is irredeemable, try to remember back to Sawyer in the beginning. I actually thought he was nuts, myself. He has been salvaged very nicely, hasn't he?
Ana is a very flawed character, for sure. But, I would like to point out that the poor Tailee's were in one hell of a lot worse situation than our Lostee's from the very beginning. The were under ATTACK from day ONE and we in immediate peril from the get-go. Their mentality was that of being under seige which is quite different than our Lostee's. In that respect, they should be judged by a somewhat different standard than our other group. Our jurisprudence system even recognizes the difference between being in 'imminent peril' and not. Her shooting of Shannon, I think would be judged in that light. Remember that the 'voices' were all around them when Shannon came into the picture and the whole group was panicked.
All that being said, Ana is in a tough situation (as the writers wanted her to be, of course). The whole point of the shooting of Shannon was TO GET RID OF HER. They just stuck Ana with the blame and provide some lovely friction and tension for the future.

Pitchblank: You seem to be very upset about a cop behaving the way Ana was depicted - I can only suggest that there has always been a current of discontent with our legal system that allows for the popularization of the vigilante. Remember Dirty Harry and Death Wish. I also think that she was most likely not a cop for very long as she was so emotionally and psychologically ill-suited for the position.

The writers accomplished two things that they wanted to do: 1-Kill Shannon, 2-Kill Shannon in such a way as to cause a problem for the group. Judging from this thread, I would say 'mission accomplished'...

Oldwiz

Our jurisprudence system even recognizes the difference between being in 'imminent peril' and not. Her shooting of Shannon, I think would be judged in that light. Remember that the 'voices' were all around them when Shannon came into the picture and the whole group was panicked.
Oldwiz


Much more likely her(Shannon's) death would be considered manslaughter.

Are you for real?

1. Yes, I'm sure plenty of parents find it perfectly reasonable to go ape and put six bullets in people. I mean hey, what do we need law enforcement and a justice system for? What kind of sick demented parent would go to the police for help? Nah, let's just have complete anarchy. Let this exemplary policewoman lead the way.

2. What part of #2 don't you understand?

3. She "almost cried about Shannon", wow, that's so compassionate. "Your honor, it's true... I did molest the plaintiff's daughters and then I ran over them with a steamroller, but I want to point this out - I almost feel sorry."

4. She didn't kill Sayid, no. And for this he should thanking her and kissing her feet? Are you actually saying that not killing two people today, only one, is a sign of progress?

Why are people like you so unreasonable?! You take things people say/that happen on the show and you respond to it completely incorrectly.

1. Crap happens. Was it wrong? Yes, by law anyway. Back in the old days if someone killed your kid you'd hang em up and the world was better off for it. Yes, I said that, this isn't a social debate, so let's not keep going there cause that's getting into a whole other issue.

2. Didn't make sense. Who was all on the other side of the law? Not all of them....you're statement didn't make sense/came across wrong.

3. That is the most absurd anaology I've ever heard. Why is it that so many of you people equate understandable actions with some horrific evil? Comparing an accidental shooting with the sick and deliberate molestation of a child?! You are truly screwed up if you think those two things are on the same scale. Besides, I was responding to the quote that "she feels no remorse"....the lighted thing with moving pictures in front of you called a television showed us otherwise, so how can you say that that's not true. It's. Right. In. Front. Of. Your. Face. She was clearly remorseful so saying that was not opinion, but just a flat out lie. You aren't even going by what you saw in front of your eyes....but rather ignoring FACT b/c you dislike her.

4. Who said that had to be the reaction? You are sure responding rediculously about these things. You are basically making things up rather than talking about things that are laid out before you plain and simple. Yes, she could have killed Sayid, and she didn't. She made the morally correct decision. Had she killed him would you have been happier? But see, either way, no matter what she does you will find fault with it b/c that's what you do...you can't see both sides. I at least admit when she is out of line....waving the gun around at everyone was a horrbile thing to do, but I am intelligent and in touch with emotion and reality enough to realize that she had reached a breaking point and that is why she did it.

Cripes, it's like some of you would deny that Jack was a doctor if you didn't like him. You see a scene right in front of you and your refuse to acknowledge it, then you overreact, misinterpret, and make completely false and off base anaolgies that don't even fit. You want to give your opinion fine, but stop stating things that actual scenes have proved otherwise. B/c hopefully you realize how rediculous that is....watch the show, they write things and scenes to explain things....stop denying them when they are right in front of you.

I can't stand her. No apologies.

Ditto.

Ditto.

Good for you. As long as you don't be hypcoritical or outrageous then I totally respect that opinion. *shakes hand*

And for those who call her character "forceful". It's not. She's borderline insane.
Thats why Libby is there... shes what Ana needs...a clinical psychologist....lol

Much more likely her(Shannon's) death would be considered manslaughter.

I think the closest situation in our world, would be a wartime 'friendly-fire' shooting. There would be an inquiry and a judgement. I suspect that is exactly what will happen on an ad-hoc basis with our group. There will be those that 'blame' Ana and those that forgive her. It will be interesting to see who does what...

Oldwiz

Because

1) In some perverted way we can identify with them on some level,
2) None of them were on the right side of the law to begin with,
3) They have all expressed remorse in some way or other.
4) They appear to be learning from their mistakes.

None of points 1-4 apply to AL.
1 I can identify with Ana more than I do with Jack or Sawyer or Charlie or Locke. Except for the obvious thing about wrong sex. Not as much as I identify with Jin, Sayid & Hurley but more than I do with the others I listed.
2 ? I don't understand this point, it makes no sense as some of them were on the right side of the law when they started.
3. I saw remorse in Ana, not sure I have seen it in Sawyer and it looks rather weak if present in Locke or Charlie.
4. Yes all of them including Ana.

I think 1, 3 & 4 apply to Ana, I am not sure who 2 applies to.

For some reason many people seem to be viewing Ana differently than most of us viewed the others when they proved to have flaws.

I don't know I've liked her from the beginning even though I didn't 'understand' her way of thinking. Now that I have the backstory on her I totally sympathize with her and 'understand' why she acts the way she does. The thing that really gets me is how so many people hate her for killing Shannon...excuse me but wasn't someone taken away by the others right before that?! I would've reacted in the same way if I was in her shoes...

Why are people like you so unreasonable?! You take things people say/that happen on the show and you respond to it completely incorrectly. With all due respect... this quote is exactly what I would say to you.
At every opportunity you try to somehow make actions that are totally reprehensible as something par for the course for your hero. It's somehow ok to commit murder if this or that happens. It's ok to be a tyrant because such and such happened. That is taking what happened and responding to it incorrectly. Murder is murder is murder. Premeditated murder no less. Lying - or failure to identify someone as the shooter so they won't be arrested and face charges - so you can stalk them at a bar and then proceed to murder them - is ok, because the guy shot her and killed her unborn child. There are no mitigating circumstances here. This is 100% First Degree Murder by an officer of the law that has sworn to uphold the law. If you slice it in half it's the same; if you slice it a million times - it's still the same. That is taking what happened and creating something different to hold onto a belief that Ana is somehow a good kind person that made a mistake. Premediation - 1.making the decision to not identify him, then 2) stalking him at the bar and 3) shooting him and then 4)shooting him more -- 4 things all being something prethought and preplanned do not equal a mistake.
1. Crap happens. Was it wrong? Yes, by law anyway. Back in the old days if someone killed your kid you'd hang em up and the world was better off for it. Yes, I said that, this isn't a social debate, so let's not keep going there cause that's getting into a whole other issue. I'm not quite sure what old days you are referring to - or where you learned your history. Most of us are very glad to live in a civilized society where both moral and intellectual advancement seperate us from archiac and "barbarian" totalitarian dictators. We - at least many of us -believe in humane, ethical, and reasonable treatment of everyone - and have institutions within society such as law enforcement and judicial systems to make sure people don't go around killing each other. The laws are generally there to reflect the overall upkeep of those humane, ethical and reasonable standards in the best interests of society. Somehow though, you're saying there are exemptions to this - and though by law her actions were wrong - Ana is somehow a good kind person that was entitled to commit 1st Degree Murder due to circumstances that exempted her and of course that isn't taking what happened and creating something different.

3. That is the most absurd anaology I've ever heard. Why is it that so many of you people equate understandable actions with some horrific evil? Comparing an accidental shooting with the sick and deliberate molestation of a child?! You are truly screwed up if you think those two things are on the same scale. Besides, I was responding to the quote that "she feels no remorse"....the lighted thing with moving pictures in front of you called a television showed us otherwise, so how can you say that that's not true. It's. Right. In. Front. Of. Your. Face. She was clearly remorseful so saying that was not opinion, but just a flat out lie. You aren't even going by what you saw in front of your eyes....but rather ignoring FACT b/c you dislike her. Now here's my version:

That is the most absurd excuse I've ever heard. How is it that you can equate multiple horrific and evil acts - 1.making a decision to not identify a criminal so they would be arrested and face criminal charges. 2) stalking him at the bar and 3) shooting him and then 4)shooting him more - with understandable actions? There was no accidental shooting here. There was no remorse at any stage - before, during or after and there was plenty of opportunity to not go ahead with any of these 4 stages. Pure intent. Zero remorse. The lighted thing with moving pictures in front of you called a television showed us this with total clarity step by step, so how can you say that that's not true. It's. Right. In. Front. Of. Your. Face. She was clearly unremorseful so saying she was remorseful is not opinion, but just a flat out lie. You aren't even going by what you saw in front of your eyes....but rather ignoring FACT b/c you idolize her.
4. Who said that had to be the reaction? You are sure responding rediculously about these things. You are basically making things up rather than talking about things that are laid out before you plain and simple. Yes, she could have killed Sayid, and she didn't. She made the morally correct decision. Had she killed him would you have been happier? But see, either way, no matter what she does you will find fault with it b/c that's what you do...you can't see both sides. I at least admit when she is out of line....waving the gun around at everyone was a horrbile thing to do, but I am intelligent and in touch with emotion and reality enough to realize that she had reached a breaking point and that is why she did it.
My version:
You are sure responding ridiculously about these things. You are basically making things up rather than talking about things that are laid out before you plain and simple. Yes, she could have killed Sayid, and she didn't. woo! Sayid was guilty of having someone shot right in front of him and therefore understandably upset, angry, furious - certainly something he should be shot for? She made the morally correct decision for once by not killing him - although she did hold him and the rest of the group at gunpoint and then demanded that Micheal bring her things in exchange for letting them go. Her reason was that she had killed someone he loved -- a good reason to hold people at gunpoint? Had she killed him would you have been upset or would you have found yet another excuse for her to have murdered someone? But see, either way, no matter what she does you will support her actions and agree with it b/c that's what you do...you can't see both sides. You only see her as the be all end all hero.

Cripes, it's like some of you would deny that Jack was a doctor if you didn't like him. You see a scene right in front of you and your refuse to acknowledge it, then you overreact, misinterpret, and make completely false and off base anaolgies that don't even fit. You want to give your opinion fine, but stop stating things that actual scenes have proved otherwise. B/c hopefully you realize how rediculous that is....watch the show, they write things and scenes to explain things....stop denying them when they are right in front of you. I'd say exactly this to you, but I would spell ridiculous correctly.

Ana has certainly polarized the posters more than anyone else, with the possible exception of Locke (Locke is God, Locke is the Devil, etc.). But, even Locke didn't give rise to the raw emotion that has been expressed on this thread.

I suspect this is because of the type-casting of Michelle in the role. She has never played a likeable character and the writers used that to their purposes. I, for one, understand and sympathize with Ana while not condoning her back-story actions. Her killing Shannon was just a plot device to get rid of Maggie, so forget that part.

Other than that, how was her backstory behavior more immoral than Sawyer's? It isn't - they both committed pre-meditated murder and Sawyer killed an innocent man whereas Ana killed a hardened criminal. Kate may also end up in this group, we don't know yet.

In fact, she is the female counterpart to Sawyer - remember how unlikeable he was at the beginning (still is in some respects). So, for those that 'hate' her, I suggest suspending judgement as I predict she will be made more likeable as the episodes go on - just like Sawyer.

Oldwiz

She was clearly unremorseful so saying she was remorseful is not opinion, but just a flat out lie. You aren't even going by what you saw in front of your eyes....but rather ignoring FACT b/c you idolize her.Putting things in what I see as the proper context, Ana was not remorseful for killing the criminal however I believe the remorse reference was to the accidental shooting of Shannon. I agree with Controversleigh that she showed remorse for that act I do not idolize Ana. I wonder if my seeing remorse in her means that I am also living in a lie with regard to what I thought I saw on TV? I believe your saying another poster's statement is a "flat out lie" is out of line.

My liking of Ana is for what she brings to the show in the way of conflict and turmoil plus my ability to empathize with and understand her flawed character even when I do not agree with her actions. MR is in my opinion doing a good job with the part they have given her.

So much anger. People relax! Its a tv show and we are never all going to have the same views on everything.. Jeez.

Now, everyone keeps on about the whole she shot Shannon thing. Yeah she did. But did she see Shannon, walk up to her and put a bullet in her? As far as Ana knew the others WERE there, they had just taken one of the people she has been protecting and feels responsible for. And someone comes running out of the bush practically on top of her. Did this seem pre-meditated? Did it seem like it was intentional? She made a mistake in a split second and unfortunatelly for Shannon it was a pretty big mistake. I dont know maybe I just have rose-tinted glasses when it comes to Ana. But, lets compare. Charlie walked up to Ethan, put a gun to his chest and pulled the trigger. THAT was pre-meditated, that was intentional and he knew exactlly what he was doing- yet where is all this hate and anger towards him? Ethan TRIED to kill him, he TRIED to take Claire- noone was killed because of his actions however, yet here we are, same situation, and noone seems to be able to understand or try to understand Ana. I think everyone who is so anti-Ana because they dont believe in mitigating circumstances, or understand her justification, then perhaps you will do well to start up some anti-Charlie threads too, and hope for his character to be killed off too.

Other than that, how was her backstory behavior more immoral than Sawyer's? It isn't - they both committed pre-meditated murder and Sawyer killed an innocent man whereas Ana killed a hardened criminal. Kate may also end up in this group, we don't know yet.

In fact, she is the female counterpart to Sawyer - remember how unlikeable he was at the beginning (still is in some respects). So, for those that 'hate' her, I suggest suspending judgement as I predict she will be made more likeable as the episodes go on - just like Sawyer.

Oldwiz

Personally I don't see her like Sawyer at all and if that's what the writers are going for then it's just not working for me. Maybe because, for me anyway, Josh does a better job acting especially with his facial expressions than Michelle does. I didn't see any remorse in Michelle/Ana Lucia's face after she shot Shannon and if other fans did then good for them but I just saw an "oops now I'm in trouble" face. I didn't get the impression that she so much as felt bad about killing an innocent girl than she felt scared for herself in how people, especially Sayid, would react towards her. As far as what she did being similar to what Sawyer did, there's a huge difference for me which is that she's a cop and should know better. She's trained not to react this way and not to take out personal vengence against someone no matter how guilty they are. Those kind of actions are what give police officers a bad name and I have no sympathy for them.

My husband and I have argued about why we like or dislike Ana. He likes her, thinks she's a bad-a$$ and probably hot, lol. I haven't really warmed to her at all. I guessed the pregnancy thing before Collision aired, and even being a mother, it didn't make me think she was in the right. Yeah, she killed a criminal, but she killed him and then went back and plugged more bullets into the guy. It was just...disturbing to me. Ana was looking to me like she was totally losing it when she was holding Sayid hostage. Did you see the way she was rocking back and forth rubbing the gun against her temple? It looked to me like she was not in control at all. At this point, I still don't like her. Maybe by the end of the season, my opinion will change. It's happened before. But they'll have to show a lot of character growth on her part to make it happen.

14 pages and im in a rush this morning for Uni but..... some people say they dont see Sawyer as the same type of guy. But if you were only given his flashback and a few moments that he was being mean to people and insulting then u'd put them in the same baot.

You only like him because hes had a whole season to develop to what he is and we all know he has a kind side and Kate can probable see that. I predict AL and Sawyer will turn out to be similarish. (maybe not AL and Kate having a steaming kiss though)

Much more likely her(Shannon's) death would be considered manslaughter.

Or she could go with the insanity plea because of hearing the voices!


I'd say exactly this to you, but I would spell ridiculous correctly.

He shoots, he scores! That was a low blow. And I loved it! (only because I tend to be the spelling/grammar nazi!

She obviously once was a good girl,
.

I don't think it's obvious. They haven't shown me anything that points to that - unlike Jin's first flashback, where he was so madly in love with Sun that he would do anything to be with her.

It has to bee seen in the context of the post where I first wrote it. The question was why we don't feel as appalled by the other "bad people"....
Just to take that point a step further - I'm (me, LostPack) only talking about AL overall and why I don't like her (the character) with regard to what we've seen (on tv, on LOST).
If Sawyer (a different character) is a murderer (which he is) or if Kate (another different character) is a murderer (which she may be) or if Jin (yet another different character) was a paid hitman - none of that has any effect on AL (and what she was shown to have done). And none of those other characters were sworn law enforcement folks.
Putting things in what I see as the proper context, Ana was not remorseful for killing the criminal however I believe the remorse reference was to the accidental shooting of Shannon. I agree with Controversleigh that she showed remorse for that act I do not idolize Ana. I wonder if my seeing remorse in her means that I am also living in a lie with regard to what I thought I saw on TV? I believe your saying another poster's statement is a "flat out lie" is out of line.
My liking of Ana is for what she brings to the show in the way of conflict and turmoil plus my ability to empathize with and understand her flawed character even when I do not agree with her actions. MR is in my opinion doing a good job with the part they have given her.
I just want to clarify that I didn't originate the phrase that "another poster's statement is a "flat out lie"" That was part of Controversleigh's post that I adapted with my words using her words - and I'd just like to say that I would never use that type of accusation. But it did fit in with the post. And for using it I did get a warning - but if you go back to the post I was quoting - thats where it came from.. I do think it's interesting how we see the same things and interpret them differently. Which is par for the course - but I'd never think someone's else's interpretation was a lie. And yes I do think AL showed remorse when she accidently shot and killed Shannon - there was no intent on her part to harm anyone - and i do think that action is going to cause a radical change in that character. As a person, I feel horrible for AL because she's going to have to deal with that shooting for the rest of her life - she can't just move someplace else. At the same time though, her actions after having done this (albeit it was another traumatic event) was more of self protection than OMG what have I done -I'm so sorry.
Her response to what she did was in part to hold the group at gunpoint. Her choice to not kill Sayid was not in the least bit redeeming - it shouldn't have even been an option to kill him. When I put together everything I've seen about AL - being a cop, what she did to Jason -- it forms how I feel about AL overall. I wish I hadn't seen her backstory - because I think if I hadn't seen that - I'd have felt different about her right now. I can't not look at things as a whole.

.... I didn't see any remorse in Michelle/Ana Lucia's face after she shot Shannon and if other fans did then good for them but I just saw an "oops now I'm in trouble" face. I didn't get the impression that she so much as felt bad about killing an innocent girl than she felt scared for herself in how people, especially Sayid, would react towards her. As far as what she did being similar to what Sawyer did, there's a huge difference for me which is that she's a cop and should know better. She's trained not to react this way and not to take out personal vengence against someone no matter how guilty they are. Those kind of actions are what give police officers a bad name and I have no sympathy for them.
I totally agree with the points RaceTheSun mentions above.

My husband and I have argued about why we like or dislike Ana. He likes her, thinks she's a bad-a$$ and probably hot, lol. I haven't really warmed to her at all. I guessed the pregnancy thing before Collision aired, and even being a mother, it didn't make me think she was in the right. Yeah, she killed a criminal, but she killed him and then went back and plugged more bullets into the guy. It was just...disturbing to me. Ana was looking to me like she was totally losing it when she was holding Sayid hostage. Did you see the way she was rocking back and forth rubbing the gun against her temple? It looked to me like she was not in control at all. At this point, I still don't like her. Maybe by the end of the season, my opinion will change. It's happened before. But they'll have to show a lot of character growth on her part to make it happen. Yes to all that :) As I said above, it's the overall backstory that makes me feel as I do right now about AL - and yes, the compassionate empathetic part of me feels horrible for AL - because perhaps she was on her way to making up for the sins of her past before the crash and before Shannon shooting happened - and maybe at some point we'll find out that she did try to head down another road -- however, just taking what I saw of her on the island -- i didn't like her very much for the way she treated the raftees and how she spoke to people and commanded them.

And I'd like to also say that whoever thought that I was rude in earlier posts and reported me for such - I apologize - my intent was not to be rude - I'm just trying to clarify my thoughts on this topic :ohwell:

I haven't read this thread so I'm just going to reply to the original question :) .

At the start I didn't like her at all but I think she's a great character now. I started to like her in The Other 48 Days because she was so worried about the children. She did everything she did (nathan, goodwin, etc) because she had promised that little girl to get her back to her mum and a person who loves kids that much can't really be bad IMHO.

Of course, after Collision we know why she desperately wanted to save the kids and her backstory made me like her even more. She killed the guy who killed her baby - I'm not saying that it was a clever move or a good thing to do but it is understandable (having lost a baby myself because some guy punched me in the stomach I know exactly what I'm talking about).

I like her and I'm looking forward to seeing more of her.

Just to take that point a step further - I'm (me, LostPack) only talking about AL overall and why I don't like her (the character) with regard to what we've seen (on tv, on LOST).
If Sawyer (a different character) is a murderer (which he is) or if Kate (another different character) is a murderer (which she may be) or if Jin (yet another different character) was a paid hitman - none of that has any effect on AL (and what she was shown to have done). And none of those other characters were sworn law enforcement folks.



I hope I'm understanding your post...

My thought with the other characters doing the same things as AL...and people not hating them for it....if you say you hate AL because she did A, B, and C...and Sawyer &/or Kate also did A, B, and C, but you DON'T hate Kate/Sawyer, then your reasons for hating Al (because she did A, B, C) are invalid. I'm not saying you shouldn't hate her. Just that you (not just YOU, but whoever is saying they hate her) must hate her for a different reason.

I hope that made sense!

I hope I'm understanding your post...

My thought with the other characters doing the same things as AL...and people not hating them for it....if you say you hate AL because she did A, B, and C...and Sawyer &/or Kate also did A, B, and C, but you DON'T hate Kate/Sawyer, then your reasons for hating Al (because she did A, B, C) are invalid. I'm not saying you shouldn't hate her. Just that you (not just YOU, but whoever is saying they hate her) must hate her for a different reason.
I hope that made sense!

Yes. It does make sense :) - but first I need to clarify - I don't "hate" AL per se - I strongly dislike her for what I've seen her do overall - I have no respect for her. I think she's made lots of very poor choices. I do hate what I saw her do. When I put everything I see together - her backstory, her career as a sworn law enforcement official, the way she treated the raftees, the reaction she had to the accidental shooting of shannon, the way she talks to people, the way she treats people overall... all of that.. that is why I immensely dislike AL or hate the character. It's the whole pie not just a piece of it.
As far as the other characters go - when I look at them overall I'm not getting that feeling of total disrespect I have for AL - that's not to say I don't think things they've done are horrible or that in any way shape or form I love all the characters and dislike AL. My whole thought is that this backstory episode reinforced my earlier dislike of her and raised it to a degree where i think it's unlikely there's anything that can cause me to lower that dislike.

Yes. It does make sense :) - but first I need to clarify - I don't "hate" AL per se - I strongly dislike her for what I've seen her do overall - I have no respect for her. I think she's made lots of very poor choices. I do hate what I saw her do. When I put everything I see together - her backstory, her career as a sworn law enforcement official, the way she treated the raftees, the reaction she had to the accidental shooting of shannon, the way she talks to people, the way she treats people overall... all of that.. that is why I immensely dislike AL or hate the character. It's the whole pie not just a piece of it.
As far as the other characters go - when I look at them overall I'm not getting that feeling of total disrespect I have for AL - that's not to say I don't think things they've done are horrible or that in any way shape or form I love all the characters and dislike AL. My whole thought is that this backstory episode reinforced my earlier dislike of her and raised it to a degree where i think it's unlikely there's anything that can cause me to lower that dislike.

Thanks for the clarification. Though I responded to you, it was also directed at everyone else "guilty" of dislike/disrespect of A-L and not others who have done similar.

Originally Posted by CharliesHoodie
...That's hilarious. I put the word b*tch in there and they totally changed it to Vincent..I love you guys. lol.
That explains a lot. I've seen people throwing Vincent's name around and I had no idea what was going on!

Although I think it would make more sense to put "Madison" instead of Vincent - since hey, Maddie is a girl dog and the character she plays (Vincent) isn't.....;)

:dog:

But ultimately that's part of the challenge to us liberals. We say that the justice system should have its way and that no man is beyond change and redemption. Well okay then. Here you go. A rotten apple with no redeeming qualities and a face you just want to slap. If SHE can still win you over, your liberal views on crime and punishment have merit. If not, you should be picketing death penalty appeals and chanting "Die! Die! Die!".

:24:
Oh that was too funny! What a great post!
:24:

14 pages and im in a rush this morning for Uni but..... some people say they dont see Sawyer as the same type of guy. But if you were only given his flashback and a few moments that he was being mean to people and insulting then u'd put them in the same baot.

You only like him because hes had a whole season to develop to what he is and we all know he has a kind side and Kate can probable see that. I predict AL and Sawyer will turn out to be similarish. (maybe not AL and Kate having a steaming kiss though)

No, I'm sorry, I still don't see any great comparison between the two. I remember everything that he's done and said well enough to be able to put both of their actions and comments through the series so far side by side and I still don't see it. Having seen Sawyer for a whole season is not the reason I like him. Even from the beginning I saw the softer, more hurting side to Sawyer and despite the few times we were supposed to have seen the same in Ana Lucia..I didn't. All I've seen is a hard headed, impulsive, bossy bad cop who is used to getting her way from people. Maybe it's the actress, maybe it's the writing. The most recent thing for me is I think the whole losing a baby storyline wasn't thought out properly and was done in a blatant way because they figured the audience would automatically sympathize with a parent who lost their child. Whatever it is, I don't see the same in Ana Lucia as I do from Sawyer.

Personally, I think the writers made a mistake by making her a vigilante cop. I hated AL at first, but over the past two episodes my opinion began to change as I began to see some of her motivations. Then, all my changed opinions evaporated in a gunshot (well, 6 of them if I counted right.) The guy may have gotten what he deserved, but she lost all her credibility as a cop AND a leader at that point. Libby is right about her - she is a bad judge of character (though it was Libby, Cindy, AND Ana who all agreed Nathan was bad news, giving "womens intuition" a bad name.)

But I don't want her off the show - I want to see what the writers do with her. Maybe she is a character we are supposed to hate. Or maybe hate, then grow to care for. If it's the latter, they've got a lot of work to do, but I think if anyone can do it, the writers of this show can.

Wow, I tuned out of this thread for 24 hours and look what happens?! I haven't read this lively of a debate since, well, "Abandoned", and the whole did-she-shoot-her-or-not debate!

Personally, I'm thrilled w/ Ana's story development in the last 2 epis. Like her or not, you can't deny that she brings yet another interesting twist to the action. I gotta give my props to the writers for throwing us another couple of curve balls and spinning us off into yet another new and interesting direction. Judging from most of posts here, whether we like Ana or not, we still can't wait to see what happens next! I say: Bring It On!

_______________________

"I may be goin' to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoyin' the ride." --Bob Weir

No, I'm sorry, I still don't see any great comparison between the two. I remember everything that he's done and said well enough to be able to put both of their actions and comments through the series so far side by side and I still don't see it. Having seen Sawyer for a whole season is not the reason I like him. Even from the beginning I saw the softer, more hurting side to Sawyer and despite the few times we were supposed to have seen the same in Ana Lucia..I didn't. All I've seen is a hard headed, impulsive, bossy bad cop who is used to getting her way from people. Maybe it's the actress, maybe it's the writing. The most recent thing for me is I think the whole losing a baby storyline wasn't thought out properly and was done in a blatant way because they figured the audience would automatically sympathize with a parent who lost their child. Whatever it is, I don't see the same in Ana Lucia as I do from Sawyer.

I totally agree with this.

No, I'm sorry, I still don't see any great comparison between the two. I remember everything that he's done and said well enough to be able to put both of their actions and comments through the series so far side by side and I still don't see it. Having seen Sawyer for a whole season is not the reason I like him. Even from the beginning I saw the softer, more hurting side to Sawyer and despite the few times we were supposed to have seen the same in Ana Lucia..I didn't. All I've seen is a hard headed, impulsive, bossy bad cop who is used to getting her way from people. Maybe it's the actress, maybe it's the writing. The most recent thing for me is I think the whole losing a baby storyline wasn't thought out properly and was done in a blatant way because they figured the audience would automatically sympathize with a parent who lost their child. Whatever it is, I don't see the same in Ana Lucia as I do from Sawyer.
I had the response they were shooting for I guess. I have at least as much (or more) sympathy for Ana as I do for Sawyer and I see a lot of similarity in their plights. Ana's excuse for being a girl gone wild is a lot more recent than Sawyer's excuse for being a murdering con man (note the loaded language :biggrin: ), so I have hope for her reformation.

I had the response they were shooting for I guess. I have at least as much (or more) sympathy for Ana as I do for Sawyer and I see a lot of similarity in their plights. Ana's excuse for being a girl gone wild is a lot more recent than Sawyer's excuse for being a murdering con man (note the loaded language :biggrin: ), so I have hope for her reformation.

Excellent point! At the beginning, Sawyer was as thoroughly dispicable a character as there was. He had a multitude of sins upon his head including murder. Plus, he really had a nasty mouth...:biggrin:
Ana was one of the good guys until she trusted the wrong guy. It cost her a baby and almost her life, apparently. There are those of us that sympathize with the action she took while not condoning it.

Oldwiz

Personally, I'm thrilled w/ Ana's story development in the last 2 epis. Like her or not, you can't deny that she brings yet another interesting twist to the action. I gotta give my props to the writers for throwing us another couple of curve balls and spinning us off into yet another new and interesting direction. Judging from most of posts here, whether we like Ana or not, we still can't wait to see what happens next! I say: Bring It On!

_______________________

"I may be goin' to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoyin' the ride." --Bob Weir

Sadly I don't see her as much of a twist at all. About the only difference I've personally seen happen from her character is that (a) she's made me look a little less forward to the episodes because I know there is someone who has never failed to annoy me yet and (b) that she killed Shannon. I'm still excited to see what happens next but with the other characters. I could care less if I never learn another thing about Ana Lucia. I thought they went the predictable route by having her lose her baby that way. Did anybody really doubt that they weren't going to give us something that they hoped would turn people sympathetic towards her. Given that she kept talking about kids, it was pretty obvious that this is what they'd choose. Unfortunately it didn't work for everyone including me.

Excellent point! At the beginning, Sawyer was as thoroughly dispicable a character as there was. He had a multitude of sins upon his head including murder. Plus, he really had a nasty mouth...:biggrin:
Ana was one of the good guys until she trusted the wrong guy. It cost her a baby and almost her life, apparently. There are those of us that sympathize with the action she took while not condoning it.

Oldwiz

Not that Ana Lucia's mouth is any cleaner than Sawyer's not to mention he's given some of us a lot more to him than Ana Lucia has to her and he hasn't tried to become some almighty bossy leader like she has. Note I said "some" of us because I know some of you feel differently. It depends on what you view as one of the good guys. Just being a police officer doesn't make that true and I didn't see that side to her even before we were shown that she's shot. I pitied her poor partner. I'd have more sympathy if she didn't handle the fallout in such a horrible way.

Listening to the latest Podcast it's clear that Javi and Leonard totally thought that the pregnancy would sell it: "As a parent, I empathize with her completely. It made perfect sense to me that she would take this extreme."

About the Sawyer vs. Ana thing...

I didn't want to quote your whole post but I think an "I totally agree" will work nicely. ;) You covered a lot of how I feel about the whole Sawyer vs. Ana comparison some people are trying to give. Also thanks for the podcast info, I hadn't listened to it. I think it's unfortunate when writers try to go that way because it feels like a manipulation. They knew most people weren't liking Ana Lucia so they figure that if she's this poor mother then we'll all snap to and forgive all the stupid choices she's made and the bratty behavior she's exhibited. I love Lost and I do appreciate the writers but I just don't think they went the right way when it comes to Ana Lucia. They went too extreme with her personality and then they tried to portray her as a police officer but went all the wrong ways with it. Seriously all of these characters have lost people or been through hard times so I just don't have any sympathy for Ana's reactions to similar things when she takes them so extreme. I don't care for people who murder someone in cold blood especially when they are police officers. I'd hate to be on the tail end not because of the specific dangers they've faced but because they had Ana as the self appointed leader.

Pitch:

It's quite apparent that you hold police officers in very high esteem and to a much, much higher standard than other mortals. I, too hold the profession in high regard (since I have several relatives and friends in various branches of it) but I also understand that they are human with all that that entails.

It seems that you almost feel 'betrayed' by Ana's behavior because she was a cop.

Maybe if you think of her as a criminal, since she is a murderer like Sawyer, she might be easier to take.

Oldwiz

Listening to the latest Podcast it's clear that Javi and Leonard totally thought that the pregnancy would sell it: "As a parent, I empathize with her completely. It made perfect sense to me that she would take this extreme."

About the Sawyer vs. Ana thing...

Sawyer was introduced as a bad egg, it was made clear from the very beginning that he's some manner of criminal and soon enough we found out he's a con man. This isn't exactly an endearing quality but at least it makes his subsequent behavior and actions logical, and it's gratifying to see someone like that take small steps towards being a better man.

Ana on the other hand is a cop, and was brought up by a cop who does things by the book. She should know infinitely better than Sawyer and is therefore damn near impossible to understand or relate to when she does what she does. It will not be gratifying to see her take small steps towards a level she should have been high above in the first place.




Pitch, I agree the pregnancy alone just doesn't sell it. I think there must be more to this story that we haven't seen yet. A good police officer has to believe in the law, at least in the beginning. It just doesn't make sense to become a police officer if you don't. Vigilante justice just shouldn't be a part of the picture unless there's something in A-L's past that has caused her to lose faith in the system. They had A-L's shooter. Why wouldn't she trust the law to punish him appropriately? Was she involved in an investigation where an unborn child was killed in the past? Perhaps it wasn't considered murder by a judge because the child was unborn, but A-L disagreed?

They had A-L's shooter. Why wouldn't she trust the law to punish him appropriately? Was she involved in an investigation where an unborn child was killed in the past? Perhaps it wasn't considered murder by a judge because the child was unborn, but A-L disagreed?

It would not be considered murder, it would either be attempted murder, or assault with a deadly weapon. As a result, he would have been put in jail rather than executed. Ana wanted him dead, so she went vigilante. I've got a gut hunch that she resigned before that, though. Just a feeling.

Oldwiz

Shoot, Oldwiz and Pitchblank, been reading your past few posts. The thing with the podcast and the pregnancy thing is that it didn't completely sell it for me. And I'm a mom 3 times over and I've also lost a child. When Ana went vigilante on that guy - even knowing he was a criminal and I had guessed she lost a child in some way - it seemed like overkill to me (no pun intended) the way she went about it. I want to see her redeemed. But at this point, she is a loose cannon, IMO. I need them to give me more to have her be more likeable in my eyes. Guess I'm neutral.

I always found it weird that the outcome dictates the penalty. What's the difference between murder and attempted murder as far as the action on the assailant's part is concerned? If someone shoots and misses by an inch, that's great for the would-be target and all but the shooter did the exact same thing that might as well have resulted in murder. Why subtract XX years behind bars due to semantics...?!

Because the people that wrote the laws saw it differently. Basically, the difference between the two is intent, which is very difficult to determine in most cases.
No, correct that, I was thinking of ADW...

Oldwiz

I am looking at another poster's statment and taking it out of context to partially agree, I don't care for people who murder someone in cold blood.That covers at least Ana, Sawyer, Charlie, Ethan & Goodwin plus possibly Danielle and perhaps even Sayid. However, I do care for a few of those characters so I am not applying the same logic to the show that I would apply in real life. The loss of Ana’s unborn child did not win me over, but it did give me insight into her motivation just as Sawyer’s background and Charlie’s background gave me insight where they are concerned. Sawyer and Charlie are struggling towards redemption. I am willing to give Ana the same chance. Ana, Charlie and even Sawyer started off as good people and then became murders. So what if Ana has annoying traits, I am not looking at her as a potential date, I am looking at her as a person who has deeds to atone for in the course of the show. I know not everyone feels the same but personally I find Sawyer and Charlie to have just as many annoying traits as Ana, thus my willingness to draw parallels with them and their actions. It is their struggle with their past as well as their current actions that gives them depth beyond what we see in one-note characters like Ethan and Goodwin and makes them interesting. I think Ana adds a lot to the show's potential story lines.

Shoot, Oldwiz and Pitchblank, been reading your past few posts. The thing with the podcast and the pregnancy thing is that it didn't completely sell it for me. And I'm a mom 3 times over and I've also lost a child. When Ana went vigilante on that guy - even knowing he was a criminal and I had guessed she lost a child in some way - it seemed like overkill to me (no pun intended) the way she went about it. I want to see her redeemed. But at this point, she is a loose cannon, IMO. I need them to give me more to have her be more likeable in my eyes. Guess I'm neutral.

goddessblue, I guess you could call me neutral on A-L too. I suppose my issue is that if
A-L had seen another similar perpetrator go free after just a brief incarceration, her anger at the injustice could be compounded. It might make the killing more realistic to me. As it stands, it does seem a little over the top.

California Penal Code § 187(a) says, "Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought." The words "or a fetus" were added by the legislature in 1970. The California Supreme Court later interpreted "fetus" to apply "beyond the embryonic stage of seven to eight weeks." (People v. Davis, 1994) In addition, Penal Code § 190.2(3) makes a defendant eligible for capital punishment if convicted of more than one murder, and the California Supreme Court ruled that fetal homicide is included under this provision as well (People v. Dennis, 1998).

Maybe she wasn't very far along? At any rate, I'm not sure malice aforethought could be proven since he was trying to avoid arrest.

According to the law in my state, had A-L died from her wounds, Jason would probably get the death penalty here because she was a police officer. Maybe in her mind she did die spiritually, but no court would ever recognize that? OTOH, the act of murder by a police officer is also considered an aggravating circumstance and could lead to the same penalty. So, Old Wiz, if she was smart, she probably did resign before she did it. I don't know if the same aggravating circumstance exists in California, but I think it's highly likely. Still, she would probably have mitigating circumstances because of what he did to her. Hmm...

Oh, BTW, I just read an article about a Federal Bill that G.W. Bush signed called the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which makes it a separate crime to harm a fetus in a violent act committed against a woman. Of course this can only be applied to federal or military crimes. It is up to states to determine in their jurisdictions, however there are about 30 states that provide specific penalties for harm to a fetus in the commision of a crime.

I don't have strong feelings either way about AL. I'm not neutral, just bored. I'd much rather have Shannon back. I've tried, as I did with all the new characters (Eko's become one of my favorites), but I just have zero interest in AL. She doesn't seem like a realistic person to me, moreso something the writers have just thrown in our faces and said "How awesome is this!"

If this board had a sleeping emoticon, I'd place it here.

Ana was one of the good guys until she trusted the wrong guy.

We don't actually know she was a good guy. Maybe, because she was pregnant, she had a softening to her character & trusted the guy - whereas before pregnancy she was the same creep she is now. We don't know yet- so until they show otherwise - I can't like her.

The problem with AL's character is that it's gotten to the point that I don't care whether or not she was ever one of the good guys - because she definitely isn't now. It's not the good girl gone astray thing with her. It's the girl gone crazy thing.

Anyone who needs a gun to be functional is dysfunctional. AL is fighting the world rather than living in it and trying to control it rather than being a part of it. If I were Lost, II wouldn't want her in my camp at all. And if she was, removing her access to weapons would be the first task.

Ah, there's yet another uncalled for and rediculous warning I receive when I'm just arguing the same as anyone else. I think the mods here are pretty biased. That's great, thanks.

It seems as though everytime I say something, the proccess is that people know they are wrong, so they get all riled up and jump on me, so I jump back and disprove their point, they know they have no leg to stand on, so they report my post. Ha. That's funny....and quite sad.

I really think TPTB just took this character too far into the 'dark side.' There's just no coming back for me.
Sorry you can't see how you've been hoodwinked just like the tailies were until they saw what she was really like.
Actually, I'm of the opinion that those who despise her and see no redeeming qualities are just playing into the hands of the writers. They WANT you to hate her so they can take her character through some kind of metamorphosis and then make those same haters feel sorry that they ever felt that way. That recurring theme (Michael, Jin, Sawyer, Shannon) is getting a little thin. But then again - the viewers keep falling for it and never learning the lesson the writers are trying desperately to teach.

She saved them? Uh and how was that? By taking them into the very jungle where the enemy lives?.
She wanted to follow the shoreline in order to protect them. Eko decided to take the group through the jungle.

When did she lie? Well, she lied about who killed Goodwin. She lead Michael and Jin to believe the Others killed him and that leads me to think that she also let her group believe it..
She never said the Others killed Goodwin and I don't think her group believes that either.

She lied to Sayid about her past after he opened up to her
Oh, you mean like how he lied to Danielle about Nadia being dead when he knew she was very much alive? He was trying to get across that he was emotionally wounded too and understood her without going into a few weeks worth of explanations. Same with Ana-Lucia. She tells the story of what screwed her up without getting into every painful and disturbing detail. He still understands that she is wounded and not a monster.

The Others don't have guns, why was she so quick to shoot?.
Ummm ... errrr ... I believe the Others do have guns. What is that in Sawyer's shoulder then? A love note?

Michael told Ana-Lucia that Sawyer was shot when the Others took Walt. So, um, yeah, I think she knows they have guns.

And as for her saving the tailies ... Mr. Eko would have done a much better job but she took command without any discussion. Bad cop all the way and bad person, too.
Eko was attacked and killed 2 people in self defense then went into full shut-down mode. Stopped talking, isolated himself from the rest of the group, and basically just existed for the next 40 days. Not exactly qualities of a leader - certainly not someone I would want in charge if I was going into battle.

I see Eko is allowed to go through his grieving/atonement process without question, but Ana-Lucia is castigated for stumbling through her own healing the only way she knows how - by trying to take back control of her life.

Anyway, Ana Lucia is the definition of a tragic hero. Look it up, she fits the mold to a tee....and i think it's brilliantly written and acted.
TRAGIC HEROES ARE:

BORN INTO NOBILITY:

RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN FATE

ENDOWED WITH A TRAGIC FLAW

DOOMED TO MAKE A SERIOUS ERROR IN JUDGEMENT

EVENTUALLY, TRAGIC HEROES

FALL FROM GREAT HEIGHTS OR HIGH ESTEEM

REALIZE THEY HAVE MADE AN IRREVERSIBLE MISTAKE

FACES AND ACCEPTS DEATH WITH HONOR

MEET A TRAGIC DEATH

FOR ALL TRAGIC HEROES


THE AUDIENCE IS AFFECTED BY PITY and/or FEAR That is Ana Lucia to a tee.

Awesome explanation of a tragic hero and perfect fit for Ana-Lucia! Thank you!

Actually, I'm of the opinion that those who despise her and see no redeeming qualities are just playing into the hands of the writers. They WANT you to hate her so they can take her character through some kind of metamorphosis and then make those same haters feel sorry that they ever felt that way.

Except that according to someone who listened to an interview by the writers, they said that they wanted you to feel sympathy for her because of losing her baby not that they wanted us to hate her. Unless you mean before we learned all of this. Because in either case, if they did want us to hate her before, it worked and if they hoped her backstory would make people forgive her for all the stupid things she's done, then they failed for some of us. I dont' feel sorry for feeling that way and I can't really see at this moment any way for that to change.

Ummm ... errrr ... I believe the Others do have guns. What is that in Sawyer's shoulder then? A love note?

Michael told Ana-Lucia that Sawyer was shot when the Others took Walt. So, um, yeah, I think she knows they have guns.

About the shooting thing, I know that island rules are different but she's obviously not very well trained with a gun for a police officer because there should have been no accidental shooting of Shannon. For one, a good cop knows to keep their finger off the trigger so they don't accidently get spooked and pull it. Two, they're also trained to filter noises again so they don't get surprised or distracted when in that kind of situation.

Awesome explanation of a tragic hero and perfect fit for Ana-Lucia! Thank you!

While she fits some of those things, she doesn't fit them all in my own viewpoint. In the "tragic heroes are" part those examples seem to affect nearly all of the survivors that we know so I suppose they are ALL tragic heroes in our eyes for that part. Obviously we can't judge the last two parts in the "eventually tragic heroes" part because she has yet to face her death. As far as the "for all tragic heroes" part, well obviously there is a good group of the audience who have neither pity nor fear for her. So if we're trying to label her with "tragic hero" then we might as well label Kate, Sawyer, Jack, Shannon, Sayid, Boone, Jin, Sun, etc with it as well because all of them have represented it at one time or another.

Regarding the shooting, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is shouldn't AL have been prepared and expecting to soon see people from the camp they were approaching? It was very careless and reckless to just assume that anyone she saw was an Other and blown them away instantly when she was in fact trying to find a large group of people who were not Others. She didn't even say to Shannon "freeze!" or "hands up!" There was no hesitation or an instant of recognition. She just turned, saw someone and fired away. She shot so quickly, I don't think she had time to even rule out the possibility of the person being Cindy.

While AL knew the Others had guns, the Others never attacked her group with guns and all the ones that attacked looked totally different from Shannon. She couldn't have at least tried to identify the person she chose to murder?

Regarding the shooting, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is shouldn't AL have been prepared and expecting to soon see people from the camp they were approaching? It was very careless and reckless to just assume that anyone she saw was an Other and blown them away instantly when she was in fact trying to find a large group of people who were not Others. She didn't even say to Shannon "freeze!" or "hands up!" There was no hesitation or an instant of recognition. She just turned, saw someone and fired away. She shot so quickly, I don't think she had time to even rule out the possibility of the person being Cindy.

While AL knew the Others had guns, the Others never attacked her group with guns and all the ones that attacked looked totally different from Shannon. She couldn't have at least tried to identify the person she chose to murder?

AL and Eko had just had a conversation about how far the losties camp was from them. He told her that the camp was maybe a day away, or maybe less. It was in no way clear to AL how close they were. I agree that it was careless and reckless to shoot without seeing and identifying her target. You're right, it very well could have been Cindy. I think that Cindy's disappearance was supposed to clue the audience in that the others were in the area as well though. I really miss Shannon, and I find what AL did reprehensible. I'm still neutral on AL as a character, because there must be something more to the story. I'm willing to wait for the writers to give her story legs. I just don't think it has them yet, though I applaud Michelle Rodriguez's performance in the episode. I thought her performance was very well done.

While the audience might have empathy for what AL was feeling after the loss of a child, I don't think most of us can empathize with vigilante justice, especially from an authority figure. If the guy had been arrested and gotten a slap on the wrist, we might empathize more. She never gave the system she was supposed to believe in/represent a chance to work. I'd be interested to learn whether she has any connection to Tony or not. Tony was the guy Hibbs payed to pull "Sawyer's jacket." Makes me wonder if she was influenced by a dirty cop the way Christian influenced Sawyer to finish what he went to Australia to do.

They knew most people weren't liking Ana Lucia so they figure that if she's this poor mother then we'll all snap to and forgive all the stupid choices she's made and the bratty behavior she's exhibited. I love Lost and I do appreciate the writers but I just don't think they went the right way when it comes to Ana Lucia. They went too extreme with her personality and then they tried to portray her as a police officer but went all the wrong ways with it. Seriously all of these characters have lost people or been through hard times so I just don't have any sympathy for Ana's reactions to similar things when she takes them so extreme. I don't care for people who murder someone in cold blood especially when they are police officers.

Just a thought, but maybe the writers aren't trying to make everyone likeable. Maybe it's ok to portray a character that has done some horrible things but is still human, and not try to soften the blows....to just let her be who she is and not sugar-coat the situation so that everyone approves or likes her. Maybe there aren't just 1) good guys and 2) bad guys; maybe there are people who are both, and that's just part of the story. Seriously, I think we analyze too much sometimes and try to make everything fit our cubbyholes.

About the shooting thing, I know that island rules are different but she's obviously not very well trained with a gun for a police officer because there should have been no accidental shooting of Shannon.
Actually I thought she was a damn good shooter! In the midst of chaos, where the enemy seemed to be coming from all directions, she mortally wounded Shannon with only one bullet - - - - She had one shot at getting the attacker and she pulled it off.

I know that's not what you meant but for all we know she MEANT to shoot Shannon. Shannon was looking pretty ratty with torn and stained clothes, nappy hair and wild eyes. How is she all that different from how the Others look? ;)

Regarding the shooting, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is shouldn't AL have been prepared and expecting to soon see people from the camp they were approaching? It was very careless and reckless to just assume that anyone she saw was an Other and blown them away instantly when she was in fact trying to find a large group of people who were not Others. She didn't even say to Shannon "freeze!" or "hands up!" There was no hesitation or an instant of recognition. She just turned, saw someone and fired away. She shot so quickly, I don't think she had time to even rule out the possibility of the person being Cindy.
Of course you are right. She did act very recklessly, but I think fear took control. The group had just mysteriously lost one of their own, whispers were coming from everywhere and they were running for their lives. When someone charges out of the bushes straight for them, Ana-Lucia wrongly assumes they are attacking. However, I wonder how many other people would have made the same mistake? Probably a lot. The only difference being the average person probably wouldn't have wounded Shannon, or even hit her at all. Most people get very shaky when panicked and don't shoot well at all. I suppose Ana-Lucia's training at the firing range contributed greatly to Shannon's death.

But besides the obvious panic among the group, Ana-Lucia is paranoid and extremely jumpy. She is still traumatized by what happened to her. I see people judging her based on her behavior, but how can you even know what her natural behavior would be? She's previously been horribly attacked, did not receive as much psychological help as she really needed, and has now survived a terrifying plane crash and landed on an island where strange people are out to kill her for no logical reason. Who wouldn't be frightened out of their right mind?

Obviously we can't judge the last two parts in the "eventually tragic heroes" part because she has yet to face her death.
When she cut Sayid loose and handed him his gun, she was prepared for him to kill her and she accepted it as a just punishment. I think she would have preferred that he shoot her than live with the pain of what she'd done.

The tragic hero still applies.

Just a thought, but maybe the writers aren't trying to make everyone likeable. Maybe it's ok to portray a character that has done some horrible things but is still human, and not try to soften the blows....to just let her be who she is and not sugar-coat the situation so that everyone approves or likes her. Maybe there aren't just 1) good guys and 2) bad guys; maybe there are people who are both, and that's just part of the story. Seriously, I think we analyze too much sometimes and try to make everything fit our cubbyholes.

Amen brutha!!!

If anyone has seen the movie "Unforgiven" you'll get the idea of what it means to portray characters with varying shades of grey instead of just black and white. There can be characters you love to hate, that you want to believe are just plain evil, who end up doing something compassionate or unselfish. There can be characters you admire who commit a lone despicable act. Is the mostly bad person redeemed? Is the mostly good person condemned?

There is waaay too much labeling among viewers. I happen to love the fact that these characters don't fit nicely into little boxes, because that is REAL. Real people are complex - that's what makes people as interesting as they are and character studies (like the ones pursued in LOST) reveal those layers with no soft filtering. It's just laid out there - ugly and bare - for us to absorb. Consider it a psychological drama and enjoy the fact that the reason we love the show so much is BECAUSE it is so different from everything else on television that insults our intelligence.

Actually I thought she was a damn good shooter! In the midst of chaos, where the enemy seemed to be coming from all directions, she mortally wounded Shannon with only one bullet - - - - She had one shot at getting the attacker and she pulled it off.

I know that's not what you meant but for all we know she MEANT to shoot Shannon. Shannon was looking pretty ratty with torn and stained clothes, nappy hair and wild eyes. How is she all that different from how the Others look?

Yeah because I meant more in trained as a police officer. One of the first things you learn is to not have your finger on the trigger until you can clearly identify the person. Maybe they are just completely into island rules here but in any case, I found it as bad gun handling for a cop. And if she meant to shoot Shannon that's even worse because even with her more ratty looks, she wasn't exactly moving at super human speed. If Ana Lucia saw her clearly enough that she could've meant to shoot Shannon based on her looks, IMO she would've had enough time to wait and see if Shannon would be attacking them first or not.

But besides the obvious panic among the group, Ana-Lucia is paranoid and extremely jumpy. She is still traumatized by what happened to her.

If she's that traumatized then she shouldn't have been the one to hold a gun. It could've been anyone running out of the woods, even one of the kids.

I see people judging her based on her behavior, but how can you even know what her natural behavior would be? She's previously been horribly attacked, did not receive as much psychological help as she really needed, and has now survived a terrifying plane crash and landed on an island where strange people are out to kill her for no logical reason. Who wouldn't be frightened out of their right mind?

Isn't that most of the point of being on this board? To speculate and judge these characters based on what happens in the episodes? All of these characters have gone through things you just named. I like, dislike, and remain fairly neutral on each one based on what we're shown. We don't know how most of these people would act naturally, we go by what we get.

When she cut Sayid loose and handed him his gun, she was prepared for him to kill her and she accepted it as a just punishment. I think she would have preferred that he shoot her than live with the pain of what she'd done.

The tragic hero still applies.

I was more applying it to facing actual death rather than the threat of it since the last line was "meet a tragic death" but even going on that I didn't see her facing it with honor but rather because of her own self hatred/pity.

It can still apply to you but not for me. I just don't tend to label groups of people as tragic heroes even when it may apply to nearly all of them which is what it'd be in this case if we're going off the definition of one that you gave.

There is waaay too much labeling among viewers. I happen to love the fact that these characters don't fit nicely into little boxes, because that is REAL. Real people are complex - that's what makes people as interesting as they are and character studies (like the ones pursued in LOST) reveal those layers with no soft filtering. It's just laid out there - ugly and bare - for us to absorb. Consider it a psychological drama and enjoy the fact that the reason we love the show so much is BECAUSE it is so different from everything else on television that insults our intelligence.

Very true. But you're labeling people just by calling her a "tragic hero" if you want to get technical. But just as these characters are often in grey areas doesn't mean that we can't determine by gut reactions how we feel about them. When the majority that I see of a character leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I'm not going to like them. That's what's happened for me in regards to her I guess.

It can still apply to you but not for me. I just don't tend to label groups of people as tragic heroes even when it may apply to nearly all of them which is what it'd be in this case if we're going off the definition of one that you gave.

The term isn't meant to imply these people are heroic in the real world sense of the word. It's a literary device used to explore character development. It's not a label for that character. It doesn't insist that we view them as a hero based on our own qualifications and it doesn't imply that Ana-Lucia is good or justified or deserving of respect. It's just a literary term. Does that make it easier to swallow?

:)


Edited to say: I didn't originally post the tragic hero definition - that was posted by Controversleigh
I don't want to take the credit for posting it when they are the ones who made the connection. I just agreed with them! :D

No, I understand that, it's just that it seems a big stretch to me to apply it to her because for me personally it loses it's significance when I can apply it to nearly everyone else that we know on the island as well.

No, I understand that, it's just that it seems a big stretch to me to apply it to her because for me personally it loses it's significance when I can apply it to nearly everyone else that we know on the island as well.

True.

Hmmm, maybe that's the point? That every one of them is a tragic hero in some way? If so, what does that say about the island, the mysteries, the relationships, the tv series itself? Is this even possible? Perhaps not. Perhaps that is the answer to the mystery of the show.
It isn't real.

:bye:

AL and Eko had just had a conversation about how far the losties camp was from them. He told her that the camp was maybe a day away, or maybe less. It was in no way clear to AL how close they were.

Right. She didn't know how close they were, so she shouldn't have just assumed that anyone she saw was an Other. For all she knew, the camp was 50 feet away.


I agree that it was careless and reckless to shoot without seeing and identifying her target. You're right, it very well could have been Cindy. I think that Cindy's disappearance was supposed to clue the audience in that the others were in the area as well though.


I agree, but since Cindy was in the area as well, I'd think AL would have been more careful to identify her target. I'd also think she'd be more careful about using her last bullet in that situation.

Of course you are right. She did act very recklessly, but I think fear took control. The group had just mysteriously lost one of their own, whispers were coming from everywhere and they were running for their lives. When someone charges out of the bushes straight for them, Ana-Lucia wrongly assumes they are attacking. However, I wonder how many other people would have made the same mistake? Probably a lot.

It's impossible to answer that, of course, but I really don't think many would have. I think anyone with genuine respect for life would make an effort to identify a person before ending their existence. In that situation, the person could very well be Cindy or one of the 40 crash survivors AL was closing in on. You also have only one bullet to use against an enemy that attacks in packs, so for that reason alone it is wise to save the bullet for an absolutely necessary moment and try to subdue any suspects with the mere threat of using it. AL is also a cop who should have been properly prepared to handle crisis situations and not just shoot first, ask questions later.


But besides the obvious panic among the group, Ana-Lucia is paranoid and extremely jumpy. She is still traumatized by what happened to her. I see people judging her based on her behavior, but how can you even know what her natural behavior would be? She's previously been horribly attacked, did not receive as much psychological help as she really needed, and has now survived a terrifying plane crash and landed on an island where strange people are out to kill her for no logical reason. Who wouldn't be frightened out of their right mind?


All of which serves to explain why she shot Shannon so indicriminantly, but I don't see how it justifies it, especially since she is/was a trained cop and has aggressively placed herself in a position of authority. If she couldn't properly handle the responsibility of having the gun, she should have recognized that and given it to someone else. Regardless of what AL's been through, I strongly believe it's wrong, horribly wrong, to decide to kill someone without even making an effort to identify the person, assuming the person is a threat when one of your own is still in the area and you are in fact on your way to encountering people who aren't threats. I don't see it as a mere accident. I see it as a reckless disregard for human life, a willingness to risk killing an innocent person on the off chance they are guilty.

I think her murder of the man who shot her is more understandable and forgiveable (though still wrong, of course).

I actually don't have a problem with AL doing bad things. Far from it. I've been wanting Lost to have darker, more malicious characters. If the writers have AL descend into madness, that could be really entertaining, but we all know they're trying to do just the opposite. All this redemption stuff going on is getting a little tired, cliche and fairytale for my tastes. In such a brutal environment, most people would become worse, not better. So my boredom with AL isn't about her bad behavior. Some characters you click with, others you don't, and I just haven't connected with her as a viewer. To me, she feels like a collective puppet of the writers as opposed to a realistic, natural character.

I see Eko is allowed to go through his grieving/atonement process without question, but Ana-Lucia is castigated for stumbling through her own healing the only way she knows how - by trying to take back control of her life.


The difference is that Eko's grieving/atonement didn't hurt anyone else. Ana's has gotten at least two people killed.

The difference is that Eko's grieving/atonement didn't hurt anyone else. Ana's has gotten at least two people killed.

That part of my post was taken out of context. I was replying to someone who believed Eko would have been a much better leader than Ana-Lucia and I replied that his response to crisis was to shut down and isolate himself. Not qualities one usually looks for in a leader (like taking charge of the situation).

Eko and Ana-Lucia dealt with crisis in different ways. He was submissive and she took charge. The one who takes the leadership role is always going to be a target for criticism because they are the ones that have to make the tough decisions. And the decisions will not always be the right ones.

Some people have the guts to be that person, for better or worse, and some people don't.

I'm not sure how it was taken out of context. I know what you were replying to -but you were also stating that everyone seemed to think it was OK for Eko to handle things his way, & it wasn't OK for Ana to handle things her way. A real leader doesn't put people in harm's way unnecessarily. Eko commands respect - Ana demands it. I know who I'd rather follow.

If the writers have AL descend into madness, that could be really entertaining, but we all know they're trying to do just the opposite.
Maybe they're not - maybe they've created a character they don't intend to redeem.

Ah, there's yet another uncalled for and rediculous warning I receive when I'm just arguing the same as anyone else. I think the mods here are pretty biased. That's great, thanks.

It seems as though everytime I say something, the proccess is that people know they are wrong, so they get all riled up and jump on me, so I jump back and disprove their point, they know they have no leg to stand on, so they report my post. Ha. That's funny....and quite sad.

Your post was warned for its content, nothing more.

As has been explained before, if a poster "jumps" on you, then you should report their post, rather than "jump back" and break the rules yourself.

Your post was warned for its content, nothing more.

As has been explained before, if a poster "jumps" on you, then you should report their post, rather than "jump back" and break the rules yourself.
I don't mean "jump" as in personally (not this time anyway)....I mean with their opinion....they jump at the chance to try to disprove me which is fine, but they do so in a way that is not just what they think but that is false and I try to tell them that and they report me....I'm tired of being warned b/c people can't handle, not opinion, but truth. Anyway, what EXACTLY did I say that deserved this? Was it the "unreasonable" comment...b/c if it was then that is absolutely absurd....and I'd would have liked to receive and discuss this with you in private, but seeing as how this rediculous warning has now taken away my PM privelages (btw Lost in Louisana, that's why I won't be able to view nor repspond to the PM you sent me)....

....I'm sorry but maybe it's not my job to put everyone in their place, but I'm tired of everyone not having an open mind.....they don't just express their opinion of dislike (which if anyone would actually read my posts they'd see I don't care if you don't like Ana I just want you to discuss it reasonably), they bash and rant and use point that can be disproven with factual evidence from the show....when I get a little bit of an "please be realistic" attitude, they run off and tattle b/c they can't handle the debate. It's sad and it's really beginning to tick me off that I'm getting privelages taken away b/c I'm trying to get people to cut the crap. Now, again, WHAT was specifically it that was so horrific that it deserved a warning? B/c calling someone unreasonable....well, to me that's not even close to deserving near bannishment. Besides, did you notice that the second time I disproved someone, THAT's when they report me....PLEASE.

And again, sorry to discuss it out in the open, but I can't really do it any way else now. Btw, how long before I can get my darn privaleges back?

I personally hate AL. But a lot of it has to do with MR. Her acting is annoying, and her constant pissed off look makes me want to hit her.

The character itself is too much of a "My way or no way"type, in a way that really is dumb. For instance Jack does this alot but he does it in a , "Cant you see why im doing this?", way. Where she does it in a, "I dont care if you dont like it" way.

i somehow like the character Ana Lucia..Now that she is a regular character of the show,i can't say i feel disturbed by that..I can't say much about Michelle Rogriguez,cause i'm totally neutral about her,all i can say is that i think she portrays the character well,as written,i think..
As for the character,i do think that there is some reason to her actions..Even though i already liked her character,after watching the epi with her flashback and saw why she became the way she is,i feel more sympathetic towards her..What happened to her is no easy situation,and not everyone can deal with this kind of situation well..Obviously she had hard time dealing with it,and perhaps she still couldn't get over it,which is almost impossible i think..I mean i've never been pregnant so i wouldn't know but losing your baby b/c of some guy's attemp to burgle a house and a bullet from his gun should be hard to get overand definitely would leave some sort of scar on your personality..
So,yeah,i like the character and i think we have yet to learn about her in future epis just like the rest of the survivors and i personally would like to see that..

I personally hate AL. But a lot of it has to do with MR. Her acting is annoying, and her constant pissed off look makes me want to hit her.

The character itself is too much of a "My way or no way"type, in a way that really is dumb. For instance Jack does this alot but he does it in a , "Cant you see why im doing this?", way. Where she does it in a, "I dont care if you dont like it" way.

So if MR looked like Maggie Grace would you appreciate Ana more? I would.:biggrin:

To me Jack's ("Can’t you see why I’m doing this?") approach isn't informative to those who question his actions; it comes across to me as a put down of someone he views as an inferior. I prefer Ana's bluntness to sarcasm.

Right, so... to summarize, Ana Lucia fans have monopoly on "the truth" - they "get" something that inferior intellects are too dull to grasp. And/or everyone else actually likes Ana Lucia too, but are in denial about it and thus fabricate reasons for their dislike -- and when you challenge their state of denial they put their fingers in their ears, go "la la la la" and report you?´
pitchblank, as an Ana fan I wish to thank you for your accurate and concise summary of what is happening!

I think the warning was given because it was said that someone had lied in your post -- i was warned because I used the words from that post in one of my posts..
I'd say the message is for us to try to get our message across without resorting to personal insults of any type.

I really dislike this character, she just isn't a good fit on this show. Ana Lucia has to go.

If I had to make a choice between the characters of Ana Lucia and Shannon for the show, I would pick Ana Lucia in a heart beat. Shannon was boring. It was not realistic that Sayid would fall for a woman like Shannon. Now the dynamic between Ana Lucia and Sayid or possibly Ana Lucia and Jack will be something to watch.

Right, so... to summarize, Ana Lucia fans have monopoly on "the truth" - they "get" something that inferior intellects are too dull to grasp.

Please actually read this: I never meant that my opinion of Ana was the truth. My opinion of her is just that, opinion, just like anyone else. I was referring to certain things I've pointed out in past posts that actually happened onscreen....and those same scenes I talk about some people react as if they never happened. THAT is what I was talking about...the refusal to see the truth right in front of them onscreen. Nothing more, nothing less. :)

Hey, there is nothing negative in her character that isn't present in other Survivors ...
- killed someone: Sawyer, Sayid, Kate
- specifically revenge killing: Charlie
- mentally unbalanced: Hurley, Locke
- gun happy: Kate, Sawyer, Charlie
- unable to let go of negative emotions: Locke, Sawyer

Just to clarify ... when I had posted that, I meant the examples to also include the information from the character histories. Most notably Locke, who was 1/10 the man in his past than he has become on the island.

No one is any smarter than anyone else. I don't think anyone on either side of the aisle is saying that.

There are those who will refuse to give Ana a chance no matter what. They will not listen to reason and are just blinded by some kind of prejudice. I wouldn't say those people are 'stupid' but perhaps 'stubborn' would be a better word for it. Nothing wrong with that..gets people through some tough times. That kind of thinking I don't 'get. I'm not saying its wrong..I just don't understand it. I guess because I've changed my mind on a couple of characters since the show started.

There are those who have thought it through and understand what her place is on the show and what is motivating her but still don't like her. That I can respect and understand. I know all about Sawyer, I understand why he is there and why he is the way he is but I still can't bring myself to like him all that much. Others feel that way about Jack or Kate or Charlie etc...so I can see where this group is coming from.

And btw..I'm not really a 'fan' of Ana's. I'm just not going to rush to judgment yet..that's all.

Just my two cents ...

I actually REALLY like her! She is a very multi layered and interesting character. And Michelle R brings a great new energy and chemestry to the show (not that is was lacking any of those things before :)

Give her a chance - I think she is going to become one o the really popular characters before long.

Like I said, just my opinion.

Just my 2 cents but if the point of the back story was to make AL more likable - it failed miserably. I actually had better feelings for her character before her back story but now I dislike her more. First she was shot because she didn't follow her training and allowed a suspect to shoot her. Then, she goes completely overboard during a domestic disturbance directing her venom at the male participant just because the female was holding a baby. Next she lies to her superiors and murders her attacker. Her efforts during the crash were admirable but she next completely miscalculated and victimized Nathan before confronting Goodwin (Why didn't she club Goodwin on the head and throw him in the pit?) Finally, to cement her horrendously bad judgement, she shoots the unarmed Shannon before she knew what she was shooting at. While I can give allowances about the stress of having been attacked by the Others the situation at the moment had one of her members missing (and may only have wandered away momentarily) and knowing that you were getting close to the other survivors' camp seems to me you would use better judgement. Add to that her unexplainable animosity towards Michael, Jin and Sawyer and I think you have a very unstable, unpredictable loose cannon on your hands that no level of back story can resurrect.

I don't think the backstory was supposed to make us 'like' her.. There are lots of back stories that we have seen that didn't make us 'like' the characters any more or less than we already did. The backstory concept does help us understand why they are acting the way they do on the island. We may not like it..but we at least understand it.

I don't think I could hate her more. I really wanna like her, but her personality really keeps me from enjoying my favorite show. In fact, until she became a regular I hadn't seen a bad episode....since she joined, I've seen two.

Her backstory would have been much better if it had a few more cop movie cliches. I wanted to hear her refered to as a "loose canon" at least once.

Wow! There's an awful lot of Ana hate in the house! I can understand her forceful attitude rubbing people the wrong way, but a lot of people seem like they could happily munch popcorn while watching her being drawn and quartered, disemboweled and burned at the stake!

At least no one would be able to come to the boards the next day and say "Hey, I have a screen capture proving she's still alive!"


In that situation, I can easily see her (or me) coldly firing six shots into the person who did that to me.

I really don't think the writers wanted us to think "Yay! She killed him herself! I love her and she's now officially flawless!" I think they wanted us to think "Oh my God! What a psycho! We shouldn't follow her to the bathroom let alone through a dangerous jungle!" There's a recurring theme in her life: someone gives her a position of authority and she proves beyond the shadow of a doubt she's unfit for it.

I don't think anyone overlooks her pain, they just don't think it gives her a free pass on everything. Ana never even expressed remorse over Shannon. I think you'd be surprised how many of even Ana's haters might forgive her if she showed any sign of remorse or any attempt whatsoever to seek redemption (like, leading someone to safety without heavy-handedly holding it over their heads, like they all owe her some omotional blank check). So far she's shown none.

And dear Lord, keep her away from the guns and from all mentions of babies or children.

I had been withholding judgement, but after this episode I love Ana and am really excited to see more of her this season. I love that she's so deeply flawed that there's no forgiving what she did, and yet you can see exactly why she did it.

Ana never even expressed remorse over Shannon.
I would argue that kneeling tearfully over Shannon's body could be interpreted as a display of remorse. That's certainly how I saw it...

I don't hate Ana. To hate someone is going a lot farther emotionally than I'll put into any TV show. I can't stand her. It's different. It means I'd not want her in my camp. And that is strictly due to her attitude and behavior. She's dangerous. There's no other word for it. She's capable and has proven her intent to use physical force with little provocation and with deadly results.

I also personally don't get along well with the type of person she is portraying, e.g. manipulative, power hungry and controlling. I can deal with someone having had a personal crises. It's when that person steps off the edge, drives my life and everyone around them that it becomes an issue.

If I were in Ana's camp, her access to weapons would be stripped or one of us would be leaving. That's pretty much a bottom line. I'd deal with the two-fisted gun-wave about once or twice and either put an end to it myself or leave. The "trained to be a cop, trained to handle them" debate goes out the window as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who fires on a target without knowing that target doesn't deserve to carry a gun. Period.

Ana is wise beyond her years, and considerate too. A fantastic and righteous leader, and I'm gonna be on the edge of my seat to find out how the camp will benefit from her presence next.

I'm guessing first she'll destroy all remaining medical supplies and burn all the food. She will seize and hide all the ammo because, well, she might need it some time. Then she'll shoot ***MOD edited to remove gratuitous violence*** then she'll sit down and sob on the beach because the world is so mean to her.

Lol. Now that is hilarious - or would be except you could kinda see it happening with her.

Lol. Now that is hilarious - or would be except you could kinda see it happening with her.

yeah so hilarious that is breaks one of the site rules. therefore most of the comments were
removed. guess that makes it a lot less funny. :mad:

Halfrek..YOU ARE WAY FUNNY! Are you the only Mod working? You are the only one I have seen on the threads I visit...I will be happy to help out if you need someone:) (when Bailey allows anyway)

Back to the thread:

The thing that won't make me like Ana is the fact she blows away Shannon and never ONCE tries to see if she can be helped or shows any remorse..her only reaction is "He is going to hurt me..tie him to a tree"???

Come on Ana...drop the wall and look beyond yourself...

:confused: :confused: :confused:
All I can say is Ana Lucia confuses me. I am not sure how I feel about her character just yet. It will take me a while to form an opinion. But if it's not good I think that I will keep it to myself.

Point taken halfrek. Then again, I didn't write it. I just responded to it.

In any case, I'm ready for the next episode. Whether we hate AL, love her, or just would want distance from her, the truth is, she's a real character to deal with. In answering any post here, my first thought is to put myself in the same situtation to see how I would respond.

My response is simple. Either limit her access to weapons or more people will die. Everything we know about her recent history supports that thought. As to whether or not there's any redemption for her, of course there is. I don't think it comes from a one-liner that says, Hey, I was pregnant. Having been in a situation where I could have easily killed someone by accident if I'd not been sure of my target, her shooting of Shannon is what I consider to be her greatest fault. I can deal with the revenge motive, even though it is murder, but not shooting at the first thing that moves.

To put it in personal perspective, if I'd done the shooting, I'd not expect to be allowed access to weapons either. There's a line between understanding someone and allowing them to continue on behavior that's destructive to those around them.

Just my 2 cents but if the point of the back story was to make AL more likable - it failed miserably.
I really don't think the writers wanted us to think "Yay! She killed him herself! I love her and she's now officially flawless!" I think they wanted us to think "Oh my God! What a psycho! We shouldn't follow her to the bathroom let alone through a dangerous jungle!" I don't think anyone overlooks her pain, they just don't think it gives her a free pass on everything. And dear Lord, keep her away from the guns and from all mentions of babies or children.

At this point, I don't think her backstory was supposed to get you to sympathize with her and like her character. I think it's just like you said, you are supposed to learn more about her mental journey toward the abyss and how deranged she has become.

Even if you cheered when she shot Jason, I doubt anyone was whooping it up when she then approached his half-dead body and shot 3 more bullets into him at point blank range. That was uncomfortable to say the least. That squeamishness viewers felt was to alert them that this person is not playing with a full deck.

She can still be a sympathetic character because she is suffering from post-traumatic-stress or some kind of mental disorder, not because of her vigilante background. I don't agree with the things she has done but I do feel a certain amount of sympathy towards her because she is just barely clinging to sanity and that's a very scary and lonely place to be.

Think about it - who do you trust the most in your life? Yourself! But when you are suffering from some type of mental disorder, you can't even trust your own mind. You have no way of knowing what's truth and what isn't. It's frightening. So, in that vein, I do sympathize with her character. She has no stable footing to ground herself and now that she's starting to realize this, she's very vulnerable and falling fast toward hopelessness and despair.

She may continue to try and mask her pain with controlling behavior or a tough attitude, but raw emotion will still seep through the cracks occasionally - exposing her guilt and despair no matter how hard she tries to bury them.

Her backstory would have been much better if it had a few more cop movie cliches. I wanted to hear her refered to as a "loose canon" at least once.
Actually I think her character would have been better explained if they HAD referred to her in this way. Then maybe those viewers who didn't catch on would realize that Ana-Lucia is unstable and possibly borderline psychotic in desperate need of psychiatric help, not just a b!tch because she feels like being one.

I loathe Ana rambina/bambina with a passion. Not only because her backstory is so cliched melodramatic one, not only because she is rude, annoying, aggresive & manly, not only because she aint likeable as Sawyer (i believe they are trying to build up a woman version of sawyer), Not only because she killed one of the 4 women on the island we learned to love, not only because my grandma hates her too, but because i never really liked MR. I always wanted to throw the remote with a force into the screen everytime she's on.

At this point, I don't think her backstory was supposed to get you to sympathize with her and like her character.

I didn't listen to the podcast so maybe I'm wrong but didn't people who did hear it say that the writers did say they thought people would be able to sympathize with her more after this episode?

Actually I think her character would have been better explained if they HAD referred to her in this way. Then maybe those viewers who didn't catch on would realize that Ana-Lucia is unstable and possibly borderline psychotic in desperate need of psychiatric help, not just a b!tch because she feels like being one.

I understand people who choose to look at it this way and sympathize with Ana Lucia because they feel she has severe PTSD and stuff like that. However, I personally haven't gotten the impression that she only acts the way she does because of this. Her actions in everything we have seen of her have made me think of someone who is controlling, demanding, used to getting her way, and way too impulsive for anyone's good. Nothing has made me think this just came from her having been shot and losing her baby. That's just how I view it of course. I also think that all of these characters could have just as valid, if not more valid in some cases, reasons to suffer from the same feelings as her but the thing is, they can give me a million reasons why Ana Lucia behaves the way she does but if she continues to do nothing to change it and continues to treat everyone else horribly, none of it will make me like her or even sympathize with her. That's not to say she has to turn into an angel to everyone because I definitely won't believe that either and wouldn't accept that kind of manipulation but so far I have yet to see a side to her that I like.

Before this last episode, I couldn't stand Ana Lucia and I don't say that about too many. By the end of Collision, I felt completley different. She seemed so alone and hurt and remorseful for what she'd done, I almost cried for her. I have to say, she's growing on me.

11/29/05 Article about Ana role:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/250026_tv29.html

I couldn't take that article seriously at all because the writer insisted on falling back on the whole "we don't like her because she's not female or girly enough" accusation that Ana Lucia fans seem to like. I wish people would realize that disliking her has nothing to do with her not being the stereotypical female but instead because we don't like her attitude (which even if she behaved that way and was a man, I still wouldn't like her attitude), don't like the bad choices she makes, don't see her as easing up even a bit on her fellow survivors, and for me personally am disappointed in how they failed to show her as having any real police training (at least not any that she actually learned even if she went through it).

Killing people is bad. It's not like their case against the guy she shot was shaky - they had it in the bag. She killed him anyways.

She shot Shannon out of stupidity. And then tied Shannon's lover to a tree instead of telling him how sorry she was.

She's stupid. A ticking time bomb. No WAY is the group going to accept Shannon's killer (accidental or not) as a leader. At least I hope not, because then I'll lose total faith in the show.

I didnt liek her the moment i saw her. Im not sure why but i just get this creepy bad feeling whenever i see her. Most people i know agree with me. They really wish she wasnt on the show. I must say i dont see her purpose right now.

I couldn't take that article seriously at all because the writer insisted on falling back on the whole "we don't like her because she's not female or girly enough" accusation that Ana Lucia fans seem to like.

I totally agree. I also hate that AL supporters always seem to assume that people dislike AL because she's some "threat" to Kate. Kate is by no means my favorite character, and lately she has been annoying me moreso than when we first met her. Also, I am not a huge Jack fan, and I don't consciously support any of the Kate-Jack-Sawyer 'ships. I just don't like Ana Lucia, and I think I should be allowed to dislike her without having to have some sort of stupid reason like "jealousy."

11/29/05 Article about Ana role:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/250026_tv29.html
Shedding light on a 'Lost' villain strikes me as an odd title since it is an opinion piece not a researched light shedding treatise. Maybe the author views herself as a luminary?
Shannon was the least deserving of sympathy of all the previously known survivors, Not in my view.:mad: That is a very subjective opinion on the writer’s part.
Sexy, sure. Beautiful even. But not cute. I know we tend to allow attractive people more leeway in their actions but why would ‘cute’ count for more than beautiful or sexy in that kind of thought process? I also note that cute, sexy and beautiful could all be used for Shannon but some people still disliked her. So attractiveness is not a free pass for all behavior and being plain ala say 'Hurley' is not an automatic ticket to being detested.
Somehow Ana Lucia is less worthy of redemption because she's the most thoroughly unredeemable of women: a tomboy, and a (insert 'Vincent' here to replace the word the author used). What is wrong with tomboys? I have known some that I really liked including some very hot ones. Besides Kate has been shown to be a tom boy while I don’t remember Ana being shown as one, unless the author thinks female cops must be tom boys? I will agree that people have a harder time excusing the actions or seeing redeemable qualities in someone they consider to be a Vincent. That however applies to both women and men - although I don't think men catch as much flack for this type of behavior. It is somehow viewed as gruff or something similar instead of being type cast as Vincent like behavior. (Darn that sounds wrong, I like the real Vincent as a character on the show. Maybe I should use Lassie as the substitute word.:biggrin: )

A non-Article question:- Why do some of us think Ana has any desire to be a leader after the two groups are joined? It looks to me like she would rather pull a Locke and do things her own way without assuming responsibility as a leader. Not to mention her campaign for leader would be off to a shaky start after the incident with Shannon.

I know we tend to allow attractive people more leeway in their actions but why would ‘cute’ count for more than beautiful or sexy in that kind of thought process? I also note that cute, sexy and beautiful could all be used for Shannon but some people still disliked her. So attractiveness is not a free pass for all behavior and being plain ala say 'Hurley' is not an automatic ticket to being detested.
What is wrong with tomboys?
Very good example. Actions speak louder than looks.

I couldn't take that article seriously at all because the writer insisted on falling back on the whole "we don't like her because she's not female or girly enough" accusation that Ana Lucia fans seem to like. I wish people would realize that disliking her has nothing to do with her not being the stereotypical female but instead because we don't like her attitude (which even if she behaved that way and was a man, I still wouldn't like her attitude), don't like the bad choices she makes, don't see her as easing up even a bit on her fellow survivors, and for me personally am disappointed in how they failed to show her as having any real police training (at least not any that she actually learned even if she went through it).
Yes - and again.. actions speak louder than looks :kiss:

I totally agree. I also hate that AL supporters always seem to assume that people dislike AL because she's some "threat" to Kate. Kate is by no means my favorite character, and lately she has been annoying me moreso than when we first met her. Also, I am not a huge Jack fan, and I don't consciously support any of the Kate-Jack-Sawyer 'ships. I just don't like Ana Lucia, and I think I should be allowed to dislike her without having to have some sort of stupid reason like "jealousy." Yes, this makes no sense to me either. I frankly couldn't care less who ends up with who - and I just don't see how the presence of one character should change the emotional ties to one has to another. Thats just a way too soap opera-ish. I never could be a "shipper" person - because I just don't see relationships being so transparent where if another woman enters a room, the guy is faced with a life changing choice. So disliking AL because that may take him away from Kate (or disliking Kate because she may take him away from AL) is a humorous thought.

If Collision had been five minutes longer, I would have turned off the t.v. - just because I couldn't stand to spend one more minute with this character on my screen. Not a character I love to hate, just a character I want out of my face.

All the melodrama of her flashbacks seemed cliché to me. She was a cop! She lost a pregnancy! Her husband/boyfriend left her! She went back on patrol too soon because, hey, a cop is what she needs to be! She executed the guy who shot her in cold blood because she's in so much pain - it MUST be (da-dum) PTSD! See, folks, that explains the paranoia, the mood swings, the aggressiveness, and blah, blah, blah. The plot points that indicated they wanted me to sympathize with her were anvilicous. However, the actress was doling out the corresponding emotions with an eyedropper, if at all. I've never seen MR in anything else, but considering all that was going on, I was frustrated that every emotional response (when there was one at all) seemed to be some variation on a sneer. Maybe another actress would have garnered my sympathy with these scripts, but no matter how hard I looked, it was the reverse. I got so fed up with it that by the end of this episode, my antipathy toward both the character and the actress playing her was so strong, I just didn't want to see any more of her. No doubt, my frustration was multiplied by the fact that I feel as though I've seen nothing BUT this woman for the past three episodes!

I'm looking forward to the next episode as it's Kate-centric, and I hope I'll get to see some of the islanders I actually know and care about. At this point, I'm so overdosed on Ana-Lucia, I'm liable to turn the t.v. off if she so much as crosses the beach in the damned background!

For those of us who like having the Ana-Lucia character in the story, it's ironic that the article in question probably isn't going to win anyone over to "our side". It looks to me like many of us could have written a much more in-depth article! I posted it without even reading it first merely because it was new and about Ana. Oh well, I forgive myself (LOL).

I put the "our side" in quotes because I don't think of this as a war between the sides. I appreciate the discussions as a way to understand the character, share appreciation of the acting talent and the quality of the writing, and enable me to see other points of view, maybe even learn something. And to speculate about where the role and show might go. She's just a character in a fictional story on television, after all.:)

I still don't like her. Backstory or not. What killed me was the how long it took for someone to finally stand up to her and leave, when she had Sayid tied up. They all knew what she was doing was wrong.
I just hate her character. I hope eventually she will bring something more to the show then bad moods and killing people. Forget the MONSTER on the island, she's the monster.