And Eko quickly corrects him to "4". Why did Locke think there were 5 in the first place? and Eko seemed to correct him before Locke could even finish his sentence. Obviously he is removing Cindy from the count, since she was taken. Just seemed a little weird, any thoughts?

hmmm....i didnt catch that the first time. here's a thought....locke spends so much time out in the jungle. maybe he did run across them, but stayed hidden. so he knew about them all along. and he watched as they were all picked off one by one. the only one he didnt know about was cindy bc at the time she was taken, he was on button-duty,

which leads to an interesting thought....is locke one of the other? has he been converted?

I caught that D...how did Locke know there were five? He had no discourse with anyone on camera to indicate he had a head count.

Me thinks Locke is going to be a major player in this Dharma Karma..He and Eko have a lot in common with their Yoda like ways. Is this the yin/yang? Good/Evil?

Can't wait to see how it plays out..

I'm pretty sure he said "So you said there were 5 of you from the tail section?" I thought it was a question - making conversation kind of thing.

i agree with Noeland

Could be...but how did he know their were five of them? Nobody to my knowledge brought that up...am I wrong??

Hey..the Lions are on soon! THUD!

I'm pretty sure he said "So you said there were 5 of you from the tail section?" I thought it was a question - making conversation kind of thing.

Locke is a smart guy, if Eko told him 4 he would have remembered the number. There is a reason he said 5, whether he was trying to get a reaction out of Eko or not we'll have to see, but John Locke did not make a mistake when he said 5. And John Locke just making conversation??? I dont think so, he always has a reason.

Yeppers. Locke speaks only when he can impact someone or a situation.

I'm with Diabolo and BaileysDad on this one.

My take on it was that Eko told him the five of them had run into Sawyer, Michael and Jin off camera, and then Locke asking questions as he loves to do, and Eko corrected him that there were now only 4 of them.

I caught that D...how did Locke know there were five? He had no discourse with anyone on camera to indicate he had a head count.

i havent rewatched, but didnt Jack say something to him when he brought in Sawyer?
i thought he briefly said something. now this will drive me nuts until i can watch again.
darn Turkey day, no time to rewatch the eppy. :frown:

Interesting point, something I noticed too. Agree that Locke usually has a reason for his comments, so why 5???

L What happened? Out there, what happened?
E There was an accident.
L: What kind of accident?
E: A girl was shot. And killed.
L: What did she look like?
E: She was tall. with blond hair... there was an Arab man -
L: Shannon.

L: You said there were five of you from the tail section?
E: Four.
L: Four. Why didn't the rest of them come back with you? and Michael, Jin.
E: They cannot come back right now.
L: Can you take me to them?
E: (looks at weapons) ... No.

I think when Locke says "you said ..." that it implies there had been some limited conversation between Eko and Locke in the hatch before this.

I think when Locke says "you said ..." that it implies there had been some limited conversation between Eko and Locke in the hatch before this.
Yep. That's how I took it, too.

Same here.

Hmmmmm.

i took it as eko having told someone - not necessarily locke directly. maybe he mentioned to kate as they were making their way to the hatch. and then word was passed along at a time when we viewers didn't see it, like when locke helped her with the med supplies.

it felt like eko corrected the count to "four" with a certain sorrow - sort of realization that in the brief, terrifying time dealing with shannon's death, sayid going ballistic, and ana melting down, everyone forgot cindy. also, that it was almost sort of... normal for the tail survivors to lose someone unexpectedly? (i know, normal is not the right word but i can't think of better.)

*edited, because strangely ALL of the typos i fixed the first time around showed up later. what a drag!*

It's obvious that they conversed off-camera. Hello? The writers have packed 48 + 48 days into a number of hours of television.

I think when Locke says "you said ..." that it implies there had been some limited conversation between Eko and Locke in the hatch before this.L What happened? Out there, what happened?
E There was an accident.
L: What kind of accident?
E: A girl was shot. And killed.
L: What did she look like?
E: She was tall. with blond hair... there was an Arab man -
L: Shannon.

L: You said there were five of you from the tail section?
E: Four.
L: Four. Why didn't the rest of them come back with you? and Michael, Jin.
E: They cannot come back right now.
L: Can you take me to them?
E: (looks at weapons) ... No.


And the way Locke reiterates four, why didnt the rest of tehm come back with you makes him sound suspicious about the number, And Jack doesnt say anything to Locke, i watched it again

Maybe, just maybe, Locke simply misunderstood Eko when he orignally mentioned there were 4 of them. Locke is not perfect by any means.

At the risk of sounding a bit too Sci-fi, Eko and Locke are both very mysterious characters who seem to know more than they are letting on, so, could they unknowingly have telepathic abilities, similiar to Walts, and have been kinda unconsiously 'In contact' with each other, since arriving on the island? Because there were five tailies, until recently, and Locke knows this, because Ecko knows this.

When they meet there is a sense of recognition between them, like they somehow know each other

Why didn't he ask about Walt?

(sorry if I missed the part where he was told)

Why didn't he ask about Walt?

(sorry if I missed the part where he was told)

We haven't seen the conversation where Eko says that there were originally 5 survivors from the tail. This conversation (which is referred to when Locke say "You said there were 5 of you") may also have included Eko explaining that Michael, Locke and Jin were washed ashore and found. That is all the information Eko has about Walt (that we know of), so it probably happened off-screen.

hmmm....i didnt catch that the first time. here's a thought....locke spends so much time out in the jungle. maybe he did run across them, but stayed hidden. so he knew about them all along. and he watched as they were all picked off one by one. the only one he didnt know about was cindy bc at the time she was taken, he was on button-duty,

which leads to an interesting thought....is locke one of the other? has he been converted?

we do see Locke hiding in the bushes right before Shannon is shot in episode 6!
and he didn't seem to react, i mean.. he didn't jump out of the bushes, because he wasn't suprised to see all those people. But it's weird he didn't tell anyone else about them..

we do see Locke hiding in the bushes right before Shannon is shot in episode 6!

Um, we did? Judging from what we saw in Collision, Locke was doing crossword puzzles and pushing the button at that time.

we do see Locke hiding in the bushes right before Shannon is shot in episode 6!
and he didn't seem to react, i mean.. he didn't jump out of the bushes, because he wasn't suprised to see all those people. But it's weird he didn't tell anyone else about them..

I dont think Locke was in the bushes, he would have known what happened without asking Eko.

I'm pretty sure he said "So you said there were 5 of you from the tail section?" I thought it was a question - making conversation kind of thing.

This is what I thought too.

Locke is a smart guy, if Eko told him 4 he would have remembered the number. There is a reason he said 5, whether he was trying to get a reaction out of Eko or not we'll have to see, but John Locke did not make a mistake when he said 5. And John Locke just making conversation??? I dont think so, he always has a reason.


Great point! I agree.

Maybe, just maybe, Locke simply misunderstood Eko when he orignally mentioned there were 4 of them. Locke is not perfect by any means.

hahaha...maybe, just maybe, youre not funny Renault! hehehe
I thought you thought Locke WAS perfect? LOL

Seriously though, you guys are (again) making huge leaps in logic based on the fact that Locke said "5" and not "4." The writers have to be reading this stuff and laughing their ***** off.

Comeon, you dont think theres a little irony that Locke said 5 and there WERE 5 before Cindy got taken? And why didnt Eko say, well there were 23 of us and then 5 and now we are 4

Seriously though, you guys are (again) making huge leaps in logic based on the fact that Locke said "5" and not "4." The writers have to be reading this stuff and laughing their ***** off.

Well, it's the least we can do...provide them with a little humorous entertainment when they bring us so much joy every Wednesday! :biggrin:

I caught it immediately and this is a valid point. If the writers are laughing at us I'm sure it won't be the first time or the last.

I don't know how Locke knew there were 5 exactly. Especially since there were until Cindy's mysterious vanishing. To ask or tell someone "you said" unless they had said, would be a little strange unless they have had a previous conversation. IF they had had a previous conversation about the survivors, Mr. Eko would not have said there were 5 for obvious reasons. Also, take into consideration the Mr. Eko doesn't hold very many conversations. As a matter of fact, when he first ment Locke, they barely said hello. Eko was a great deal more interested in the guns than small talk with a stranger. So, I doubt there was an "off screen" conversation. Don't ever underestimate Locke's character or his creator (writer)

But dont you think, in that case, that Eko would have looked at Locke and said something to the effect of "I never said anyting about how many der were." (Read with Eko's cute little accent)

I do think we are to just assume there was an off screen conversation somewhere along the lines where Locke got this info.

Comeon, you dont think theres a little irony that Locke said 5 and there WERE 5 before Cindy got taken? And why didnt Eko say, well there were 23 of us and then 5 and now we are 4
I'm getting de ja vu here with Diablo, but what the heck...

OK, Locke specifically said, "YOU SAID there were 5 of you." This makes it very obvious that Locke and Eko HAVE had a conversation. And during this conversation, Eko at one point mentioned how many there were in his party. You don't just walk up to someone and say "remember when you said..." when they didn't say anything close to that. Especially if the conversation was fairly recent (more than likely within the hour).

So it seems obvious that it was a simple mistake, Locke was one number off. If Locke is such a super genius like everyone proposes, why would he intentionally say 5 when he knew darn well that Eko had just said 4. What would possibly be the purpose of that?

Now the writer are laughing at me for carrying on this ridiculous argument!

well, locke did think the last number was 32, not 42. so maybe he gets his numbers mixed up sometimes.

but i think it is simply a matter of there having been an offscreen conversation at some point - and not necessarily between locke and eko. as i mentioned in an earlier post, eko could've said something to kate on the way to the hatch, and then kate could've said something in passing to locke, and then...

good writers don't need to explain everything. if it's a well-told story, some off-screen info should be deduced by the viewers. maybe i'm wrong, but i don't think locke's question is a major clue. i just think the writers are being economical and letting a few well-placed words do some character development, as well as the 'splainin'.

well, locke did think the last number was 32, not 42. so maybe he gets his numbers mixed up sometimes.
Forgot about that, excellent point. If he could screw up something so obviously important as the numbers, this current argument just seems silly.

your right Renault and diablo237, that's pretty much what I was trying to say. But, it's not obvious to me that they had a conversation.

OK, Locke specifically said, "YOU SAID there were 5 of you." This makes it very obvious that Locke and Eko HAVE had a conversation.

I think Eko said something, but not necessarily to Locke - he could have told Jack and/or Kate on the way to the hatch and they could have relayed the info to Locke. If Jack and Kate saw a stranger show up with an injured Sawyer, I think a logical question would be "Where is everyone else?" And at that point, Eko may have automatically counted Cindy, but later corrected himself when speaking to Locke.

But I do think there was an actual off-screen conversation with someone at some point, I don't think Locke divined the number of people.

I like the Locke character as much as the next person if not moreso, but things are getting crazy when four pages of posts are devoted to the fact that he said the number 5 instead of 4. You have to realize that the tailies just lost Cindy after 48 days on the island. Eko just stumbled in on the lostaways and is currently sitting in an underground bunker decked out in 70's decor. If anything, the writers used Locke's line to show that Eko is still under some confusion as to the whereabouts of Cindy. Locke's convo with Eko came later after they had a few mins to get collected. THAT is when Eko took the time to count up the people in his head.

I think that he messed up the numbers on purpose to get jack to correct him. He wanted Jack to be envolved with the button. Baby steps.

I think that he messed up the numbers on purpose to get jack to correct him. He wanted Jack to be envolved with the button. Baby steps.

Eko and Locke, each has ment their match. It's going to be awesome:biggrin:

During the writers' podcast, they explained that they tried very hard to avoid having each character explain what they had been through. So what you're seeing is just a reference to an offscreen conversation. Let's not have another debate here over who shoot Shannon. It's just silly.

I think that he messed up the numbers on purpose to get jack to correct him. He wanted Jack to be envolved with the button. Baby steps.

jack wasn't even in the hatch at the time. as far as locke knew, jack was still off chasing down desmond.

i felt like the whole emotional breakdown jack went through was... silly. if jack was truly a man of science, the logical solution to the situation would be to push the button, until you find out what it is doing. you keep locke on your side, avoid triggering the end of the world (even if you don't believe that'll happen) and buy yourself time to explore.

of course, that's a lot less dramatic.

but this is all off-topic. it seems very likely that eko's count revision was to indicate his realization that one more of the tailies had fallen prey to the others; an acknowledgement of the loss. not a big "clue" that locke is the all-powerful oz...

During the writers' podcast, they explained that they tried very hard to avoid having each character explain what they had been through. So what you're seeing is just a reference to an offscreen conversation. Let's not have another debate here over who shoot Shannon. It's just silly.

Kell.........silly or not, it's all fun............................................... ........;) :grin:

I think that he messed up the numbers on purpose to get jack to correct him. He wanted Jack to be envolved with the button. Baby steps.
I recall Locke trying to remember what the numbers were, so it seemed he honestly couldn't recall the numbers at that moment. And then Jack comes along and corrects him. So I thought Locke wasn't sure if Jack was trying to mess him up by creating doubt or giving incorrect numbers, so he asked Jack to press the button...kind of like "if you want to nuke us all, you press the button". But then the getting-Jack-involved really does makes a lot of sense...

Kell.........silly or not, it's all fun............................................... ........;) :grin:


Ok. Sorry. I got a bit worked up about the Shannon thing.:cool: