Okay, does anyone else find it strange that everyone seems to think that it is the guy who Kate was making out with that was the man she loved and the man she killed. I am sorry to say that you ARE WRONG and I am about to prove it.

DUDE!!! First of all, if he was the man she loved and the plane belonged to him, then why the ef did she not ask him for the key? They could've gotten it while they were robbing the back, for cripes' sake!!

Second of all, she would not have gone through all the trouble of finding the dumb plane and the robbery if she still HAD the man she loved and if that was the guy then she did still have the man she loved.

Third of all, she didn't KILL THE GUY!!! she shot him in the leg. Unless he bled to death becuz she hit the artery in his thigh then I HIGHLY doubt that he died. She didn't love him, she didn't even tell him her REAL NAME!!!

Good points. I think a lot of people think she's referring to her father - the plane looks from about that age, the comments about daddy issues + her comments about her father.

Who's everyone? Because from what I've read most people believe that the man is her father.

OK, I've said this elsewhere, but why do we think that she really killed the man she loved. I got the feeling that "it belonged to the man I loved" was to throw jack off - she didn't want to tell him that it belonged to the man that she killed. With all of her slight of hand, I'm not convinced that A) She killed anyone B) if she did that it was someone she loved.

actually, i havent heard at all, that it was possibly the robber guy she loved and killed. that wouldnt make sense at all..

i'm suspecting either father... or a soulmate/lover of hers.

she clearly didnt have any feelings for the robber guy. he was just an accessory in her little scheme to get the plane. and if the plane was his, he woulda known it would be in the vault ... he didnt know what she really wanted in that safety deposit box.

I think part of the reason Kate might understand and tolerate Sawyer more than the others is that she has also conned people into doing what she wants. *

I don't think Kate killed the man she loved, I think she has assumed responsibility and guilt for a death that she feels resulted from some action of hers. In the bank she shot to wound not to kill and those people were persons who could identify her and her part in the crime if she went to trial. *It is obvious that the man she loved who died is not the guy from the robbery, he didn't even know her real name. He was a tool & nothing more to her.

PS I am actually liking Kate more as a character after this episode. *8)

Yeah I really don't think that she cared for the robber guy. She was just using him to get what she wanted, like he said. It was obvious. If she could shoot him...she didn't care.

I was definitely thinking her father. Like "the only man I loved". You can love a dad. I don't think the way she said it made it seem like it HAD to be a lover at all. And I actually think it looked like she was fake-crying(but that could've been unfelt acting).

Thing is she's probably lying about both.

. And I actually think it looked like she was fake-crying(but that could've been unfelt acting).


I agree--I think she was still lying to Jack at that point to get him off her back. It seemed like her crying in this ep was fake (didn't really see tears), especially when compared to her crying over Charley at the end of ATBCHDI, which to me seemed very real.

my apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere... (i've been trying to catch up on posts, but there are a ton of them!) :)

but... did anyone else see an odd connection between Kate and Danielle? I've always thought they seemed similar traits, their build, their hair (at least I think Kate's could look that way if she were on the island for 16 yrs)... anyway...

when it was sayid's backstory, and he was with danielle, danielle said she'd killed the man she loved. (again, similar to Kate)

and I agree that bankrobbery guy couldn't possibly be the one she was referring to when she said she killed the man she loved. I don't think she loved this guy, and i don't think she killed him.

I think part of the reason Kate might understand and tolerate Sawyer more than the others is that she has also conned people into doing what she wants.

I don't think Kate killed the man she loved, I think she has assumed responsibility and guilt for a death that she feels resulted from some action of hers. In the bank she shot to wound not to kill and those people were persons who could identify her and her part in the crime if she went to trial. It is obvious that the man she loved who died is not the guy from the robbery, he didn't even know her real name. He was a tool & nothing more to her.

PS I am actually liking Kate more as a character after this episode. 8)


Agree with everything, even your PS (and you have no idea how much it pains me to say that).

Thing is she's probably lying about both.


Yep.

my apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere... (i've been trying to catch up on posts, but there are a ton of them!) :)

but... did anyone else see an odd connection between Kate and Danielle? I've always thought they seemed similar traits, their build, their hair (at least I think Kate's could look that way if she were on the island for 16 yrs)... anyway...

when it was sayid's backstory, and he was with danielle, danielle said she'd killed the man she loved. (again, similar to Kate)

and I agree that bankrobbery guy couldn't possibly be the one she was referring to when she said she killed the man she loved. I don't think she loved this guy, and i don't think she killed him.




Thanks for pointing out the similarities in those lines. Mental note made.

I was definitely thinking her father. Like "the only man I loved". You can love a dad. I don't think the way she said it made it seem like it HAD to be a lover at all.


Sorry, I don't see a woman referring to her father as "the man I loved". That is phrasing used for a husband or boyfriend, not a parent. Not one with a normal relationship anyway.

Sorry, I don't see a woman referring to her father as "the man I loved". That is phrasing used for a husband or boyfriend, not a parent. Not one with a normal relationship anyway.


Which is maybe why the writers used it? They could have wanted us to assume it was a lover when in fact, later it's sprung on us that she killed her father.

I agree it's odd, but don't think we should close off an option just because of the wording. I think we all realise how devious people who make this show can be ;)

Third of all, she didn't KILL THE GUY!!! she shot him in the leg. Unless he bled to death becuz she hit the artery in his thigh then I HIGHLY doubt that he died. She didn't love him, she didn't even tell him her REAL NAME!!!


Do we know for sure if Kate is her real name? She does seem to change it more than she changes her shirt. :D

I'm not sure how it's going to play out, but if this toy plane backstoryline does actually have some importance and/or relevance to the story, then it's going to have to play out on the island.

My point being, I think that like Claire's psychic sent her to the island (after a fashion), Kate's toy plane is going to have a connection to the island. If the toy plane is more than just a memento of her father or lover or whatever, then the resolution of why she has it and why it's so important haven't actually occurred yet. The ultimate purpose for the plane, be it a piece of a scavenger hunt, or clue to something can only be resolved if it happens on the island.

I apologize if this doesn't make sense, but I'm trying to get this out of my head and onto pixels.

I like the idea that someone had that the underground area is an abandoned secret research facility, and that Kate's dad had some sort of connection to it (since he was in the military at some point). The fact that they were near Ruidoso, New Mexico puts them within an hour or so's drive of Roswell, which I think will have something to do with this underground island facility. Testing the alien technology, or perhaps it's a crashed spaceship from thousands of years ago or something. The fact that Adam and Eve's bodies are from at least forty years past puts them in the same time period (roughly) of Roswell (assuming they were there for a decade or so before they died).

All of these ongoing mysteries will have to have their resolutions on the island, since I don't think they will escape the island anytime soon.

Anyway, enough rambling. Continue to talk amongst yourselves...

Doc

Do we know for sure if Kate is her real name? She does seem to change it more than she changes her shirt. :D


I don't know if anyone noticed in the "LOST" posters, they Have Kate's name in quotes. They Have Charlie Pace, Jack and the "Kate."

It got me thinking even more after the eppy because she told them her name wasn't Maggie and then I remember the posters/

hmmm I think it was pretty obvious during the show that Kate was not in love with the guy from the robbery flashback. *Nor was he in love with her. *In fact he didn't even seem to know her that well. *His friends said they knew they shouldn't have trusted her, she had no qualms about shooting to wound them all. *She set them all up, (not to constantly bring up the Alias comparisons, but) just like Sidney does on the regular when she needs to get something. *Another reason that makes me think she had some involvement in law enforcement or the military. *

One thought I had on the whole 'the man I loved" comment was, what if that wasn't her whole sentence? *What if what she was trying to get out was "The man I loved the most", but she cut herself off and changed her story when Jack refused to believe her tears. *Because regardless of who she's talking about, "it belonged to the man I loved" is kind of an odd sentence. *it would be more natural for her to say something like "it belonged to my boyfriend" or "it belonged to a man I loved very much". *Either way, honestly, I think she was just using the tears she had over finding the plane (for whatever mystery reason) and a lame excuse to try and make Jack sympathetic to her and to stop questioning her. *After this episode I believe the marshal. *She's good, don't let her get to you.

My boss says that the plane looks familiar, like he saw it in another episode. Perhaps in another flashback. Does anyone else have that feeling?

-- The plane looked familiar -- it looked like the planes hanging from the mobile over the crib in Claire's "dream"

-- I agree that the robber was not the man she loved or killed. But I do think it was significant that after getting shot in the leg, the robber said, "You better kill me, or I am going to get you ..." something to that effect. Don't have a thought how it plays out, but I do think it will be relevant.

Do we know for sure if Kate is her real name? She does seem to change it more than she changes her shirt.


I'm guessing Kate is her real name because presumably her name appeared on the flight manifest, otherwise Hurley would have been freaking out even more after his census. You never know though--does anyone remember if the marshall referred to her as "Kate" at any point?


-- The plane looked familiar -- it looked like the planes hanging from the mobile over the crib in Claire's "dream"


I think they're different. If I remember correctly, the planes in Claire's dream were models of the Oceanic plane. Kate's plane is a DC3, a military aircraft.

I'm definately liking the idea that the toy was part of a series of clues Kate was looking for--to lead to information or a treasure, or something. It can't just be about sentimental value. (Either than, or we're all watching too much Alias. ;D

(( The plane looked familiar -- it looked like the planes hanging from the mobile over the crib in Claire's "dream"))

i agree with welshmuse...the planes are different, this one that kate has is an older model from what i could tell and i recorded the shows so i could refer to them. the mobile planes were replicas of the plane that crashed.

as far as her name...i think it is kate (at this point....subject to change my mind) but being on the run, she probably has several aliases!

i don't think it is her father that owned the plane, and on that note....i dont think she was after JUST the plane as well. as far as a lover...it's possible but to me it seems like she can turn on the waterworks really easily to get her way(can we say drama queen?). with that said, i am thinking it may just be a ploy to distract jack. she's obviously a con-artist! but then i am just one voice....

-- The plane looked familiar -- it looked like the planes hanging from the mobile over the crib in Claire's "dream"


The plane that Kate had is way different, from a prior eppie. The eppie that your probably thinking was Claire's but in her "dream" it was actually the plane that they were in before the crashed.

I'm guessing Kate is her real name because presumably her name appeared on the flight manifest, otherwise Hurley would have been freaking out even more after his census.* You never know though--does anyone remember if the marshall referred to her as "Kate" at any point?



You can buy a plane ticket under any name. If she is conning people, even going to a bank to pretend to ask for money she would have pepers with whatever name she was using. I think, like Sawyer, she has more than one name she uses. Kate could be a fake, just like Sawyer.

regarding Kate's real name, what id could she have used to get on board? since it was determined that this crash took place after 9-11 (boone's comment to Hurley about his own little "patriot act") security at check in is intense. I have to show my photo id 4 or 5 times before my butt hits the seat of the plane. For that matter, how did Sawyer do it since that isn't his real name either??

regarding Kate's real name, what id could she have used to get on board?* since it was determined that this crash took place after 9-11 (boone's comment to Hurley about his own little "patriot act") security at check in is intense. I have to show my photo id 4 or 5 times before my butt hits the seat of the plane.* For that matter, how did Sawyer do it since that isn't his real name either??


False IDs. They still exist and are getting more sophisticated.

The Marshall would know her real name, in fact did he even say her name at all during the flash backs and the episodes he was in?* I think he used where is she?

Perhaps her name isn't Kate.* She's rumbled us before.* She could have got her ID from another passenger in the crash so therefore her name would be on the manfest if she took someone else's identity.

The Marshall can get her deported under her name, but she can assume any name once she crashed by looking through people's wallets and such like.* No one would know any different.

What struck me as odd is her mug shot. There was no name or details about what she had done.

One would think that information about her identity and crime would have been in that case... if indeed he was a real Marshall.

Maybe he was just another faker.

It's Kate for real :-*

The plane trip was the Marshal's idea not Kate's. Why would he get her a ticket under a false name?
Perhaps if she was famous & he wanted a discrete trip with her under custody, but I don't think Kate was all that famous. She used a fake name in the robbery so Kate was not her criminal alias. I am assuming the Marshal booked the flight using real names.

Kate may not be her name. We don't know for sure the Marshall sure as hell never called her Kate.

Discrete?? He was carrying a gun and a badge and Kate was handcuffed.

As far as we know, she has told us her name is Kate, no where else has it said what her real name is. Kate could have found a dead passenger and taken her name.

Discrete??* He was carrying a gun and a badge and Kate was handcuffed. I take that as an agreement with my contention that he would have used her real name for the ticket, since he was not trying to be discrete and conceal their trip from anyone else.

As far as we know, she has told us her name is Kate, no where else has it said what her real name is.* Kate could have found a dead passenger and taken her name. That could apply to several of the people on the show. It is only those we have seen in flashbacks where their real name was used that we probably can be sure of. Maybe Boone & Shannon are really Bud & Shirley Sawyer?

What purpose would it serve for Kate to give fellow castaways a fake first name? It is not as if they have been sharing last names and home addresses with each other in expectation of a post rescue get together.

Yes the ticket would have to be in Kate's real name, but is Kate really her name?*

Kate would give a fake name if she thought they would be rescued.* Their names would have to checked on the manefest they have to check who's alive and who's dead.

If she used her real name and they ran it through the computers, alarm bells would ring especially when a Marshall was travelling on the plane.* The people who would check the names would know Kate was on the plane and if she was alive then she would have to be brought in.

But if Kate uses an assumed name hoping that they would be rescued she could quite possibly escape the law once more.

Kate would give a fake name if she thought they would be rescued. Their names would have to checked on the manefest they have to check who's alive and who's dead. Did she have access to the manifest prior to saying I am Kate, so she could pick a replacement name? Sawyer had it and then Hurley. Kate removed the handcuffs on the plane before she knew how badly the Marshal was injured. She ran into Jack shortly after she got off the plane and didn't she say she was Kate at that time? Before she knew which passengers were dead and had left names available.

We don't know how long Jack was laying in the jungle to when he asked Kate to sew his wound up. Kate had plenty of time to figure out a plan should they get off the island. She would have plenty of time to find a new name and there were bodies scattered over the beach it wouldn't take her two minutes to find a woman's body and take her identity. We don't know where Kate's been between Jack getting up to him asking Kate to sew him up.

Between that time, Kate could have had time to find a new identity. She could have stumbled into a dead body, searched it, when Jack asks her name she would have used an assumed identity, not her own.

my apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere... (i've been trying to catch up on posts, but there are a ton of them!) :)

but...* did anyone else see an odd connection between Kate and Danielle?* I've always thought they seemed similar traits, their build, their hair* (at least I think Kate's could look that way if she were on the island for 16 yrs)...* anyway...

when it was sayid's backstory, and he was with danielle, danielle said she'd killed the man she loved.* *(again, similar to Kate)

and I agree that bankrobbery guy couldn't possibly be the one she was referring to when she said she killed the man she loved.* I don't think she loved this guy, and i don't think she killed him.




Not really but I did notice a creepy doppleganger thing going on between Jess (Sawyers bed fling) and Kate...I think even her freckles matched!

trueogre-very thoughtful! i didn't even think of that! good ideas you got there! keep it up!

The Marshall would know her real name, in fact did he even say her name at all during the flash backs and the episodes he was in?* I think he used where is she?

Perhaps her name isn't Kate.* She's rumbled us before.* She could have got her ID from another passenger in the crash so therefore her name would be on the manfest if she took someone else's identity.

The Marshall can get her deported under her name, but she can assume any name once she crashed by looking through people's wallets and such like.* No one would know any different.

What struck me as odd is her mug shot.* There was no name or details about what she had done.

well we know yhe "marshals' name or we can ask sawyer he has the wallet. Then check the manifest for who is next to him.

Hmmm...I actually posted something that got replies!? OMG!! Anyway, I have always wondered, what's a doppleganger? And also, Treogre, what is your little quote about the special level of Hell from? I know I've seen it before.

dop·pel·gäng·er [ dópp’l gàngər ] (plural dop·pel·gäng·ers) or dop·pel·gang·er [ dópp’l gàngər ] (plural dop·pel·gang·ers)
noun

1. somebody similar to another person: somebody who looks very like another person
2. ghost identical to living person: an apparition in the form of a double of a living person

[Mid-19th century. From German, literally “double-goer.”]

Hmm you must not have been a Buffy fan, they did a some episodes using this concept and had 2 versions of Willow running around.

Re: Kate's name. One thing I just thought of is that after the crash she picked the name Kate for a reason. Once she later saw the manifest, it's likely she could spot a non-survivor with some variation of the name Kate or Kathryn. Even a middle name would work. She might have had the foresight to pick a common name with a lot of varients.

Erm, the marshal did use her name in Tabula Rasa, when his car pulled up next to hers. He said "Hey Kate." Cut to end of flashback.

Yes but you must remember that the farmer contacted him and told her about it. He was probably used that name as a 'pun'.

PEN: My name comes from Joss Wheson's Firefly.

...If he was using it as a pun, wouldn't he have used 'Annie,' which she had told the farmer was her name?

True* :lol2:

Still think it's not her name, gah I hope we get a season 2 and more to her backstory.

I still think it's not her name since the Marshall never refers to her with that name again. It's always 'she', 'her'.

He also told Jack not to believe her lies.

Erm, the marshal did use her name in Tabula Rasa, when his car pulled up next to hers. He said "Hey Kate." Cut to end of flashback.


So noted, but that's still not evidence that's her real name.

Another reason the marshall might have called her "Kate."-- I think he was conned by her in the past--maybe during this time Kate was her alias, and got used to calling her that. And after he found out who she was, he kept using the alias.

Maybe he was using it sarcasticly.

you guys should all cast your vote about "Kate's" name in my poll!

http://www.thefuselage.com/threaded/index.php?topic=3224.0;topicseen

Another reason the marshall might have called her "Kate."-- I think he was conned by her in the past--maybe during this time Kate was her alias, and got used to calling her that. And after he found out who she was, he kept using the alias.



i kinda agree about this-----

You all are assuming that the Marshal (note the 1 "l"!) knew her real name. The only way cops know your name is what you tell them. If you have been in the system before, your fingerprints will show all of the other prior names you have used. However, they may never be sure what the correct name is.

Cops will also ask for a social security number. However, many defendants just make one up. Or, and this is relatively easy, she could have obtained the ss# by using the name a dead person who was born the same year she was born. Once you have that, its easy to obtain identification (driver's license, credit cards, etc).

I was a NYC prosecutor. I had many defendants that we were never sure what their birth name was.

-- The plane looked familiar -- it looked like the planes hanging from the mobile over the crib in Claire's "dream"


That same type of plane was in Raised by Another.* When Claire answered the phone in the middle of the night there was one on the night stand.* Perhaps a link between Kate and Claire?

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=100&pos=506

Hey, now there is a find. Can somebody find a screenshot confirmation? My sister borrowed my tapes...

Wow! How did everyone miss that?? No one anywhere i've read has mentioned that plane. need a better shot and now i plan to watch the episodes again this weekend. a lot closer than ever there has to be even more maybe we missed. i'm impressed and send KUDOS to you tpeltz1

I don't think the planes are the same. The planes on the mobile were commercial airplaines, but the plane Kate's got is totally different.

I wasn't looking so much that they are the "same" plane just that they had one. just seeing that is interesting same for that stupid number 4 thing and a couple of other things things that make me go hmmmmm(rubbing chin)

I am not referring to the L10-11 mobile in the crib. This is when the psycic calls her in the middle of the night. On her bed stand there is a model plane mounted on a pedistal. That plane looks like a DC-3; the same as the toy plane.

I am not referring to the L10-11 mobile in the crib. This is when the psycic calls her in the middle of the night. On her bed stand there is a model plane mounted on a pedistal. That plane looks like a DC-3; the same as the toy plane.


Yes, I saw it and it seems to be an interesting find. I'm going to rewatch and slow down the dvd and take a closer look. I still say kudos!

screen shot! screen shot!

ETA: never mind I see t posted one in the original post above. Definitely looks very similar, though it's hard to say without an enlargement.

Great. Now all us clue freaks will be scanning scenes looking for tiny planes. ::)