For those who saw what the writers meant for us to see. For those who saw truth and emotional drama. For those who don't re-write and misinterpret scenes in their heads so they can hate someone that irks them, makes them jealous, threatens their ship, etc. For those with a real grasp on the idea of great creative writing and strong character developement. For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroine who after much trauma finally just snapped and had an emotional breakdown and therefore lashed out at after being betrayed and abandoned by the world, and for those who know that her throwing down the weapons was a first step at the road to emotional recovery, this thread's for you.

And for the love of God if you bash....there's dozens of threads for that. The producers need to know know that there are some people out there who actually UNDERSTAND their show and it's poignant characters. I couldn't even start a 'dear producers' thread without mindless trolls trying to outdo/undo my message. Apparently I can't even talk to the producers about her and support the character without the bs following me in there, which I think that speaks for itself. Anyway, for those who see truth and the truth of human emotion and brilliant writing of said emotion, rather than the dime a dozen 'pick and choose and unfoundedly hate' mentality, this thread is for you!

So glad you started this thread.

I've said this before, but I really don't judge the characters anymore. I've learned that time totally changes your view on them. If the island was filled with normal/healthy people, it would be a pretty boring show.

I'm on the mindset, that if Sayid could have compassion (or whatever the proper term is) for her, than I can too. Until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes, how do you know what makes them tick. We've only had a sampling of what brought her to the place she's at, and I'm sure that there's a lot more to her than just losing the baby and killing Jason. Coming from a cop family, it's 'way out there' to believe that what we saw and only that brought her to murder someone.

*Raises hand*

Wish I had something to add, but I totally agree. Couldn't have said it better myself! Ana is a fascinating and sympathetic character and I look forward to seeing more of her.

I'm not fan of hers BUT I really hate how people aren't giving her a chance to develop.

Exactly, I for one cannot wait for another Ana flashback to fill in the gaps both before and after the Jason bit. I want to know what she was doing in Sydney and what she was doing with her life post-revenge. She seemed genuinely happy/flirty in the airport bar, makes me wonder if she'd found some sort of peace or at least outlet for her trauma, then the whole island thing just brought it all back for her to finally and really face, just like it's done with everyone's issues (Jack seeing his dad's ghost, Hurley dealing with being unwanted, everything about Locke, and now apperently Kate too).

Though, it would likely be the very end of the season/start of next before we do....though hopefully not. The major characters always get two flashbacks as opposed the the side characters' one. She's a main character now, so *fingers crossed*.

And yoyo, THANK YOU. It's nice to see people who still may not be fond of her, but at least watch like a good fan would, anticipating the developement of a character and trusting the geniuses who make the show.

Thank god there are actually SOME people out there who actually are intelligent! :)

So many are complaining, "I expected this to be like Shannon's episode, where in the end I really liked her." The main difference though is that we've seen AL as a bad *** all season, and NOW are finally starting to understand why she is the way she is. She had a messed up situation (shot in the line of duty, lost her baby, husband/boyfriend left her). Then land on crap-hole island and have "the others" start taking your people away.

Really easy for her to be Mary-Sunshine, huh?

You don't necessarily have to like her, but you at least have to sympathize and understand her a bit better after last night.

I'm done ranting now. :)

Javi was on the LB and said that Ana was like everyone else on the show..she is there for a reason.

I'm with waltisfuture on this one. Most of us thought Michael was a dead beat dad. We thought Jin was an abusive husband. We thought Sun was a weak non-assertive woman. Shannon was a complete spoiled Paris Hilton type. We thought Sawyer was total jerk with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. We were WRONG. We were working on only partial information. I believe Ana has a LOT of problems but in that she is no different from Jack, Sawyer, Charlie, Claire, Kate etc etc. She is another addition to the happy dysfunctional gang however right now we only have PARTIAL information. We don't have the whole story. Some of us said the EXACT SAME THINGS ABOUT SHANNON not all that long ago. We were right.

I also grow weary of "I hate her because she hit Sawyer'. Oh..then you should REALLY hate Sayid and Jack..and Charlie while you are at it...heck even Kate took a swipe at him. Hate everyone who is mean to wittle helpless Sawyer. The funny thing is..Sawyer didn't seem to 'hate' her. His fans seem to hold onto grudges longer than HE does.

And as far as the ship thing goes...I think that is beyond the character's control. They are fictional people doing things the writers tell them to...so if Ana makes eyes at Jack or spars verbally with Sawyer its because TPTB want her to. They want things to move in a certain direction. Accept it if you can or stop watching. I don't know why anyone would persist in watching something that makes them so unhappy.

Notice I haven't defended Ana yet. She probably suffering from some sort of PTSD. She is slightly unhinged...going 'round the bend'. She's not 'right'. Things about her are twisted. She is coming across as cruel and abrasive. (so did some of the other characters in the begining of the show but that is another thread). Some say she has not shown remorse..although I think when she visited Shannon she looked very contrite and she had tears in her eyes when she faced down Sayid. That looked pretty remorseful to me. However she hasn't had a lot of time to show remorse. She's barely come to terms with the fact that she shot an innocent bystander.

So I hope that I 'get' it. I think she is a great addition to the cast...if nothing else the character is good for debate and has injected some...controversy into the show.

I'm curious about her childhood, whether she has siblings, the father of the baby she lost, her strained relationship with her mother, her recuperation from her (assumed) near-fatal gun shot wounds, and the ring she still wears. And, needless to say, whether there's any connection pre-airport with anyone we've already heard of/seen. There's so much more to be told!

I think MR is doing a phenomenal job of portraying this character. I haven't seen any of her other work yet.

I would like to see an episode where she ends up helping one of the other castaways and starts getting like more. Like helping Claire with her baby.:)

Hey guys, here's something I thought you would enjoy. I was thinking in literary terms a few minutes ago about what Ana reminds me of....and found it in my brain, that she is without a doubt the epitomy of a tragic hero. Read this, and know that you are basically reading Ana's bio lol:

Aristotelian Definition of Tragedy

Aristotelean defined tragedy as "the imitation of an action that is serious and also, as having magnitude, complete in itself." It incorporates "incidents arousing pity and fear, wherewith to accomplish the catharsis of such emotions."

The tragic hero will most effectively evoke both our pity and terror if he is neither thoroughly good nor thoroughly evil but a combination of both.

The tragic effect will be stronger if the hero is "better than we are," in that he is of higher than ordinary moral worth. Such a man is shown as suffering a change in fortune from happiness to misery because of a mistaken act, to which he is led by his hamartia (his "effort of judgment") or, as it is often literally translated, his tragic flaw.

One common form of hamartia in Greek tragedies was hubris, that "pride" or overweening self-confidance which leads a protagonist to disregard a divine warning or to violate an important law


Definition of a Tragic Hero
A tragic hero has the potential for greatness but is doomed to fail. He is trapped in a situation where he cannot win. He makes some sort of tragic flaw, and this causes his fall from greatness. Even though he is a fallen hero, he still wins a moral victory, and his spirit lives on.

TRAGIC HEROES ARE:

BORN INTO NOBILITY:

RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN FATE

ENDOWED WITH A TRAGIC FLAW

DOOMED TO MAKE A SERIOUS ERROR IN JUDGEMENT

EVENTUALLY, TRAGIC HEROES

FALL FROM GREAT HEIGHTS OR HIGH ESTEEM

REALIZE THEY HAVE MADE AN IRREVERSIBLE MISTAKE

FACES AND ACCEPTS DEATH WITH HONOR

MEET A TRAGIC DEATH

FOR ALL TRAGIC HEROES


THE AUDIENCE IS AFFECTED BY PITY and/or FEARThat is Ana to a tee, and I believe that is exactly why the writers created her. If they one day killed her off, they'd likely do so in some big display of sheer heroism, which unfortunately would likely go over the hads of most people who would simply cheer and be glad rather than see the brilliance behind it. I for one hope the opposite, I hope Michelle doesn't bow out b/c of the negative response and they keep her as long as the show runs, b/c I'd love to see Ana overcome all of this and not fall victim to the unfortunate fate of most tragic heroes.

Like so many people have posted before. If we liked everyone the show would be a bore. Just about the time we all started to love Sawyer and are getting use to Locke. Ana shows up. Yes right now a lot of us hate her. Right now I believe she is ment to be hated.
In time they will let us like maybe even love her. BUT that time will not come until we have someone else to hate.
I'm thinking it will be the Others or the Dharma people. Who ever the true enemy on the island is.

Hating her may not be such a bad thing, if it's what is intended at the time.

I don't think AL was made for peopl to hate. She has more potential then for something like that.

I don't think AL was made for peopl to hate. She has more potential then for something like that.

In the long run yes. Just like Sawyer became something more then a smart mouth pain in the butt. I beleive she will turn in to an amazing charater, once we learn more about her. I'm just talking for right now.

Interesting the idea about Claire and her baby. How will she react? Wil she stay away..or become fascinated with Aaron? Will she try to help or become obsessed with keeping him safe. Will she ignore him?

Some have wondered if she might not try and force Charlie/Claire to remember. After all they of all the group are the only ones to have been abducted and lived to tell the tale..except they aren't telling the tale if you follow me. She might want to know more about 'them'.

Ditto. And, Laurie, even if she was meant to be disliked which I believe she was TO A DEGREE, then great, but you have to admit most people aren't just disliking her in the way the producers intended, but rather all out loathing/ignoring her. I'm seeing post after post of people trying to state ways to murder the character, that to me is just a display of serious emotional problems. It's a fictional character, and people are so angry at her and unrealistically so consdiering her backstory, that they are talking in such a way, and it's incredibly sad and pathetic. And these people won't even give her credit for the positive things she HAS done. It's like they block out those things completely and only focus on the accidental death, some harsh behavior, and an emotional breakdown. You on the other hand are at least a reasonable person, so I thank you for that!

I think she will try to make sure the baby never gets in harms way. Like a gardian angel:smile:

We've seen what has occurred to her in life to understand the issues
she is on the Island to deal with.

Killing Shannon by accident and then not being forgiven just yet but "spared"
by the man she was so sure would kill her the moment he was free, to me,
was both hitting rock bottom and the first hand to help her back up.

She should be glad it wasnt Charlie's Girl. We all know what he does if you just
kidnap her. To me this is one of the interactions i want to see as they both have
murdered people out of vengeance even if we are lead to believe they deserved it.

Controverseigh
I understand what you are saying.
But it can either go one of two ways.
We either take what we have seen of her at face value. Meaning the scenes we have been shown of her charater. Which you have to admit have not been to flattering or we try an imagin what she was like before the shooting, so we can sympathize with her now.

I'm not a replayer. I watch the show. I catch what I catch and that is it.
I'm one of the few who choose Ana in the jungle with a gun. When the boards were going crazy with did she or did she not shoot Shannon. Because I don't freeze frame and I don't over think what I'm seeing.
I can hate her right now, because the person I have been shown at face value is very hateable. ( is that even a word)

When she becomes likeable and I'm sure she will. I will be in here posting a whole other story.

YES I agree people go way over board. They get to emontonal. They take what happens on the show personally. I don't agree with it. You can check my threads. I haven't wished death on anyone :)

Ditto. And, Laurie, even if she was meant to be disliked which I believe she was TO A DEGREE, then great, but you have to admit most people aren't just disliking her in the way the producers intended, but rather all out loathing/ignoring her. I'm seeing post after post of people trying to state ways to murder the character, that to me is just a display of serious emotional problems. It's a fictional character, and people are so angry at her and unrealistically so consdiering her backstory, that they are talking in such a way, and it's incredibly sad and pathetic. And these people won't even give her credit for the positive things she HAS done. It's like they block out those things completely and only focus on the accidental death, some harsh behavior, and an emotional breakdown. You on the other hand are at least a reasonable person, so I thank you for that!

I saw an actual post (not on this forum) that said in effect that she hoped Ana died in a most creative way...that she hated her and wanted her off the show because 'I don't like violent people'.

Ever look in a mirror much?

I too want to thank the starter of this topic.
I don't like Ana, I don't think we'd ever get along in real life, but that doesn't mean I don't understand where she is coming from.
She's a beautifully flawed human being, just like the other characters.
I don't need to like a character to appreciate them, hell I am not a big fan of many of the characters (like Chalire and Jack for instance).
Ana is a shattered person, who is just pretending to hold it together, she obviously has issues with her mother (in a wonderful parallel to Jack's issues with his father).
In one instant she had her entire life and meaning taken away from her and like many people in that situation she threw herself into her work.
She isn't dealing with what happened because it is too painful for her. I could go on but you get the point.
I applaud the writers for taking chances by making a character so unlikable to begin with, knowing there will be many idiots who refuse to ever give them a chance, but you can't make the idiots happy, so you shouldn't try.
This is a great show that is always getting better.

LMAO that post is so funny how it contradicts itself.

saw an actual post (not on this forum) that said in effect that she hoped Ana died in a most creative way...that she hated her and wanted her off the show because 'I don't like violent people'.

Ever look in a mirror much?
You need to to put that over here. Because I'm not remembering it. You should back up what you say.

Oh and this is the ONLY LOST forum I post on. Unless your talking about another board on this site.

It's a real post because I remember seeing it too.

Like I said please quote and put it here. Because I really don't remember posting it.

Like I said please quote and put it here. Because I really don't remember posting it.

I don't think elfdream was insinuating it was your post on another forum.

I like AL. End of story.

I like AL. End of story.
Word brotha:biggrin:

In just a few minutes, she brought out this powerful side of Sayid — his regret and remose — that we really hadn't seen before. Her very mention caused Jack to let down his guard on all the trust issues. Clearly she makes an impact on the characters we already know. I don't care how annoying she is at times (and she's far from the worst). If she helps us understand the other characters better, then she's a major asset to the show.


(and doesn't anyone to think that police shrink deserves some blame for putting her back on the streets before she was emotionally ready?)

(and doesn't anyone to think that police shrink deserves some blame for putting her back on the streets before she was emotionally ready?)

I put that blame on her mother, for folding when Ana threatend to transfer.

Sayid went thru the same process he may be remembering that he thought Sawyer
wanted some payback for the torture. He may have some connections to the pain
in the decision AL made in releasing him and offering her life.

I get her now. I felt bad for her once she realized what she had done to Shannon, and when she "gave up" and told Sayid to kill her.

I'm curious to know what happened to her after she shot that kid - you know that came back to her somehow!

I can't get over the production of this show...that is what really draws me in! Then the characters keep me in. I can't wait for the Rose/Bernard flashback. And I actually like A.L. She's pretty complex. I loved the scene where she cried in Eko's arms. I'm glad they chose this episode to let us glimpse into what makes A.L. tic or toc!

Hey, Laurie's fine by me.....even though she states her disliking, she's open to other possibilities and when she expresses said disliking, she does so intelligently (whether she posted a funky thread elsewhere I do not care). This thread was for the ones with a brain and an open mind, just b/c she doesn't like Ana, I sure as heck don't care/won't judge, b/c quite frankly she's been one of the calmest and most mature people around here to criticize Ana for REAL reasons, yet still remain open to future character developement b/c she get's that it is a show with many levels.

Heck, I don't much care for Kate, but I want to know what happened to her and I enjoy watching Evie develope as an actress (from flat to interesting quite quickly). I really think Locke has issues and I almost dislike him, but I also think that Terry is the best actor on the show and Locke is a friggin rediculously awesome character/story. I created this thread for the reasonable people....if you dislike Ana your welcome here too, b/c everyone is entitled to an opinion, but I just can NOT read another thread where people long for her death, call her a biotch, and say that MR sucks when those comments are unsupported, immature, hurtful, sometimes violent, etc. Which btw I too find ironic that the same people who want her to receive a bullet to the head also gripe b/c she's so volatile and harsh. LMAO.....those are some of the most idiotically hypocritcal things I think I've ever heard....and I actually feel sorry for these people.

I've said it before. She's the best female character on the show. Kudos to the writers for having the courage to write her the way they have and kudos to MR for nailing the performance. Why do female characters always have to be "nice"? If she were a man, she wouldn't be pushing viewers buttons the way she does.

She is extreme and complex and deeply human. And I love that her inner conflict has nothing to do with romantic entaglements.

I like her a lot. And I think she's well-written. I mean, of course I was rooting for Sawyer to get to Jack as quickly as possible, but when Ana asked Eko not to leave her, when she said "Please"...man, I felt for her. She kind of reminds me of my older sister: she just wants to keep her friends and family safe, but she doesn't always know how to best go about it and ends up looking bossy. Poor Ana--*I* forgive you!

RIGHT. And, as far as MR, even at her most harsh/angry times, you see so much behind her eyes. In the bar, she looked dead in her eyes b/c of what she was about to do....so accurate. And, when she's freaking out with the gun and telling Libby to tie him up, it was such a dramatic moment for her to speak to Libby like that...and in Michelle's eyes you could see the feeling of being abandoned/alone....hence her actions. When she said, "I already am alone." I almost cried....and I don't cry (also when she said to her mother, "That's not him" with such intensity and anger and sadness). When she was playing with the gun and holding it near her head, you could see her desperation. Also, when she's angry you see a sadness and vulnerability too....whether that comes from Michelle or the character it's completely accurate for the scenes. Lastly, the very end, with the look she gave Jack....it was suprise, shock, relief, exhaustion, and shame all rolled into on. It was genius. In this ep, I truly believe that Michelle gave the best performance of her career and put herself in the list of Losts's best right behind Terry, Jack, Yun-Jin, and Dom....behind them for sure, but near them none the less.

When you can tell exactly what a character is thinking just by the look on their face/in their eyes, THAT is acting. And that is what she did in every moment.

OH! Lastly I almost forgot, when she was looking at the screaming child and finally snapped, my God the look on her face....and, man, the opening scene with the doc....that was the gentlist/subtlest Michelle has ever been. For those 30 seconds, you almost forgot about Ana and her punches and her harshness, she was like a regular woman you'd run into on the street and would have no clue how strong she was b/c she was just so....normal. That is what I believe Michelle has been wanting/waiting to play all along...someone not weak and pathetic but not overtly strong and tough either....someone normal....someone real. And she did it perfectly.

Basically what I guess I'm saying is that every scene here, her acting was flawless. Even better than 48 Days.

Her character has been so different so many times. In the airport she was so flirty and normal, almost inspirational to Jack....in the jungle she's been harsh and protective and leader-ish, as well as desperate, brutal and alone. In the flashbacks she was normal and angry and sad.....some may think it's inconsistent, but I think it's spot on. Everyone has highs and lows day to day not to mention year to year.

Just b/c you have a horrible trauma doesn't mean you are always gonna act negatively with anger or sadness (i.e. the flirting with Jack and Sawyer)....and just b/c you have an up day (in the docs office, joking with her partner, flriting, etc.) doesn't mean you can't break down (in Eko's arms and with the gun/Sayid thing).

Michelle did fantastic. I smell Emmy nod. I'm not saying she's given the greatest performance on television, but when I watch other shows and other supporting actresses, I don't see such range. People say Michelle has no range b/c of her films, well, watch her on Lost and you'll see:

Anger, sadness, strength, desperation, trauma, sarcasm, leadership, panic, happiness, light-heartedness, flirtiness, rage, sexuality, violence, heroism, harshness, boldness, compassion, brutality, humor, shame, coldness, and comfort. All in the span of about three episodes. That is great acting....and it deserves recognition. I don't know how anyone watching Lost can honestly believe their own words when they say she has no range lol.

I've liked Ana since the beginning, because I felt that she had to have something horrible in her past that made her act the way she does. Also people don't get that she was dropped on a island where you don't know if you'll live another day, she also feels very responsible for everything that happens because she knows she could have done something about it if she could. I love her character so much.

Liked her from the beginning.

I was actually excited last season in that final episode when she flirted with Jack at the airport bar. I knew that there were survivors from the tail section and that she'd show up this season. Rodriguez usually plays strong, kick-a** charictors and I knew that she'd make an interesting addition to the show and she has. She's going to jazz up the show in so many way, she's an ex-cop on an island with a fugitive, a dope addict and a proffesional con-man.

It's going to be interesting.

The only thing I should add is that if she does turn out to be bad, it's going to be in a big way, just like Alias fans found out with Lauren in season three.

I've posted before that right now i think she's the most compelling character on the show. It's not about liking her or her actions. Heck, she obviously doesn't even like herself anymore. It's about understanding why she acts the way she does, why she is the way she is. And just from last night you can't piece that together...it's the beginning of her backstory, not the middle. Michelle Rodriguez said when she took the role it wasn't another of the "tough chick" roles she had been typecast into before.

People around here think Sawyer is great, well he's murdered a man in cold blood also, but that's ok i guess, his issues drove him to it. But Ana does the same thing, it's cause she's a murderer plain and simple?

i didn't like her when she first showed up this season, but she has grown on me alot. and i get her motives, she wanted to protect those people. yes she was scared and shot and she shouldn't have but i understand why. she has lots of trauma and pain in her life and she just broke. in the airport she seemed okay (with jack) but the plane going down, the kids getting taken, ect. she just cracked. major props to sayid for not killing her. i don't know if i would of done that. she's gonna be an interesting character to watch. but just my humble thought.

Controversleigh I liked your post. It’s about time someone pointed out the good aspects of Ana as a character for the show. Flawed characters are interesting – perfect characters are boring and Ana is anything but boring. I can understand her character and her actions. She brings a lot of excitement to the show, even though I miss seeing Shannon fulfill her promise with further character growth.

And for the love of God if you bash....there's dozens of threads for that.
Now don’t take this as a bash. But regarding your, “For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroin” There may be a typo. Although watching Ana & Lost might be addictive "Heroine" may be the word you want, :undecide: not the drug heroin.

Silly me. I never (rarely) go into "those" kind of threads, but I just did and read 2 pages. Holy crap, I had no idea the amount of emotion her character has caused. I'm wondering if some of the polarization comes from the fact that we're so protective of our group and subconciously annoyed that these new characters are keeping us from learning more about the peeps we've grown to love?

Has some peoples patience run out with the dragging out of the story lines? I wonder what the writers are thinking now. **that idea worked perfectly** OR **oops we pushed it too far**??

I'm super curious how the posters will react to Kate's backstory if she killed someone in a similar manner. Will she be "cut the slack" that Ana's not receiving, or will the same people who only see it as a black/white issue and come down on her as hard??

One arguement I found absurb is that they can understand Sawyer killing in cold blood because he had a good reason??? but Ana didn't.

I agree with all you have said 100% and am tired of the petty bashing Ana Lucia is getting everywhere.

Ana is a strong woman who had a breakdown finally after holding a lot in and feeling very "lost". She had reason behind her actions. She is a good character who has a lot of potential and I am hoping she sticks around to have her character arch and soften a bit.

For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroin who after much trauma finally just snapped

Strong heroin?? It should be interesting when she meets Charlie! Sorry, couldn't resist a cheap joke. Seriously, this was a solid, intelligent post. In a large ensemble drama, every character shouldn't be immediately likable. Most of the castaways have tragic pasts, and this manifests itself in different ways in their personalities. Ana Lucia "hard-***" quality was explained well in "Collision," and I think that future scenes and flashbacks will only make her more sympathetic to viewers.

One arguement I found absurb is that they can understand Sawyer killing in cold blood because he had a good reason??? but Ana didn't.
Well, one argument I read was, paraphrasing, "well, at least Sawyer only shot him twice." I nearly fell off my chair after that one.

I think Sawyer and Ana are very similar, the only difference is how the two characters have been shown to us. Both in a rather negative manner earlier on, but the big difference being that Ana, within a few episodes, killed 3 people, wrongly accused Nathan, which indirectly led to his death, and has been greatly antagonistic to the fuselage survivors – the characters we know and love so much.

Sawyer was well delineated by the time he was capping Frank Duckett – we knew he had a heart from his very first flashback when he walked out on his con because he saw the kid. I bet if we saw his second flashback earlier in the season, people would have seen him in a different light. Now, I will say that Sawyer was certainly more hesitant to go through with his act of revenge, while Ana was qualm-free, cold-blooded.

The great similarity to me, above all, is that both Sawyer and Ana screw up… a lot. They both have killed innocents – Duckett and Shannon. Sawyer tried to finish off the marshal, but failed. Ana’s false accusation against Nathan. There are also some minor examples that escape me. They are both tragic figures that seem destined for misfortune.

I’m not hating her, or loving her – I’m just interested in the character and that is most important.

For those who saw what the writers meant for us to see. For those who saw truth and emotional drama. For those who don't re-write and misinterpret scenes in their heads so they can hate someone that irks them, makes them jealous, threatens their ship, etc. For those with a real grasp on the idea of great creative writing and strong character developement. For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroin who after much trauma finally just snapped and had an emotional breakdown and therefore lashed out at after being betrayed and abandoned by the world, and for those who know that her throwing down the weapons was a first step at the road to emotional recovery, this thread's for you.

And for the love of God if you bash....there's dozens of threads for that. The producers need to know know that there are some people out there who actually UNDERSTAND their show and it's poignant characters. I couldn't even start a 'dear producers' thread without mindless trolls trying to outdo/undo my message. Apparently I can't even talk to the producers about her and support the character without the bs following me in there, which I think that speaks for itself. Anyway, for those who see truth and the truth of human emotion and brilliant writing of said emotion, rather than the dime a dozen 'pick and choose and unfoundedly hate' mentality, this thread is for you!


Arrogant much ?

Just because people don't agree with you it doesn't make them stupid or less understanding of what the writers write.

What I find extraordinary about this thread is the fact that it begins with a fairly eloquent defense of a character and a poster’s interpretation of the intentions of the show’s writers, and then is responded to in a equally respectful manner by a wide variety of people from, what I imagine to be, a widely diversified group of people linked by a commonality: this program. Yes, Ana Lucia has depth. Yes, all of the characters do. That is, I think, one of the points of this show and one of its greatest didactive messages. The characters have all been brought together and all of them have a value. Everyone has a story. Everyone has an explanation. Some of us simply don’t know what it is yet. It is interesting to note that many people (fans) have formed fantastical loyalties to some of the characters based on their abilities to empathize or relate to them and hatreds for others they know little about (ignorance). This seems a lot like life, doesn’t it?

Now don’t take this as a bash. But regarding your, “For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroin” There may be a typo. Although watching Ana & Lost might be addictive "Heroine" may be the word you want, :undecide: not the drug heroin.
Son of a shiznat, I did not see that. :D

Thanks, it has been corrected, lol.

P.S. Archangel. Don't start. I'm tired of trying to explain to people like you that I do not think you are unintelligent if you disagree....I think you are unintelligent if you cannot put substance behind your hatred. If you can't explain yourself and your only reasons for wishing a violent death on a character can be completely disproven by actual scenes on the show, then I find your posts demonstrating you do not understand the writing. If the writer tells you with a scene, "She feels bad about this." by having her do/say a certain thing, and people say, "No. She doesn't feel bad at all!", they are ignoring hard core fact and they are basically rewriting already there scenes and the obvious meanings and intentions behind them. THAT is what my problem is with. I hear that comment all the time, that I am somehow insulting people with different opinions, when if any of you would actually read my posts I have said time and time and time and time again that I would love to hear your dislike of the character if you would do so with some dignity for the characters, the people who write them, the actors who portray them, and also quite frankly, with some dignity for yourself. So please stop saying that I'm doing that, stop re-writing and misinterpreting me just like people try to re-write and misinterpret the show. Thanks.

I posted this on another thread but I think it more properly belongs here...

Ana has certainly polarized the posters more than anyone else, with the possible exception of Locke (Locke is God, Locke is the Devil, etc.). But, even Locke didn't give rise to the raw emotion that has been expressed on some threads.

I suspect this is because of the type-casting of Michelle in the role. She has never played a likeable character and the writers used that to their purposes. I, for one, understand and sympathize with Ana while not condoning her back-story actions. Her killing Shannon was just a plot device to get rid of Maggie, so forget that part.

Other than that, how was her backstory behavior more immoral than Sawyer's? It isn't - they both committed pre-meditated murder and Sawyer killed an innocent man whereas Ana killed a hardened criminal. Kate may also end up in this group, we don't know yet.

In fact, she is the female counterpart to Sawyer - remember how unlikeable he was at the beginning (still is in some respects). So, for those that 'hate' her, I suggest suspending judgement as I predict she will be made more likeable as the episodes go on - just like Sawyer.

Oldwiz

Honestly, I can't stand Ana Lucia and I have a lot of logical reasons behind it. I know you don't want debate in your thread but I have to at least say that personally I haven't seen the same things you have in Ana Lucia such as any remorse or sadness. Whether it's due to Michelle's acting or my own interpretations, it doesn't make me wrong or unable to understand what the writers are saying. It just means I don't view it the same as you.

At this point, I am not crazy about Ana Lucia at all. The way she shot that guy, then walked over and shot him again and again I found very disturbing. But the jury's still out on Ana for me. There's gotta be a lot of character growth as far as she's concerned. But I'm willing to bet that there will be. There were a lot of characters that I didn't like at this time last season that I love now. (I could not STAND Jin around this time last year, now I love him! Same with Sawyer and a couple of others.) Anyway, like I said, at this point, Ana's not at the top of my favorites list. It could change. We'll see.

Thank god there are actually SOME people out there who actually are intelligent! :)



That is really rude! I am a very intelligent person, but I can't stand this character. Intelligence has nothing to do with how you feel about something - it's an emotional response. Maybe she reminds me of someone in my past whom I don't like -the same with other people who don't like her. Maybe, emotionally, I don't agree with her choices.

edited to add: I've never seen her in anything before, so I have no bias that way.

Most of us thought Michael was a dead beat dad. We thought Jin was an abusive husband. We thought Sun was a weak non-assertive woman. Shannon was a complete spoiled Paris Hilton type. We thought Sawyer was total jerk with no redeeming qualities whatsoever..

I never thought those things - so am I allowed to hate AL now?

I never thought those things - so am I allowed to hate AL now?

No..that's not the point. A lot of us did not like these people at some point. No one ever said it was 'wrong' to not like a character. Heck..I know a lot more about Sawyer and I still don't like him all that much even now.

I was just saying I have seen some of this passionate language before about other characters before. Some have gone on to change their minds, some have not.

I've just learned not to make snap judgements about characters after knowing so little. Heck..I might go on to absolutely HATE the character when I find out more about her. I'm just...reserving judgement becuase I rushed to it before.

Oh..and the post I quoted earlier was NOT FROM THE FUSELAGE. It was from a Livejournal community but please don't ask me to find it. Its buried in the comments from a post that had well over 300 replies..but as I said it wasn't from anyone on this forum.

When I say board I mean 'site' like The Fuselage. When I say forum I mean like this "Episode' forum. That is probably where the confusion came in.

wow..thank god for your posts (this my first but been viewing for ages!)

Finally i get to read some intelligent opinions. A L is a great contribution to the show. At last... a character thats deeply flawed, going a bit mental and doesnt seem particularly likable. Great.... keep her in. After everyone out of season 1 started to bond we needed someone to come in and stir things up a bit. It was getting a bit too 'nicey nicey' for me. Hats off to the writers for the way theyve handled it. We all knew there were gonna be some new faces (tailies) joining the group. But introducing em by having one of them killing off one of the main cast is genius!!!! I'm sick to death of 'oh poor shannon...blah blah...i hate ana...blah blah....not watching the show till she dies... blah blah' GET A LIFE! ITS TV!!!! I wasnt a great fan of shannon but i wasnt jumping for joy either when they killed her off. I can just remember when A L shot her and me and two housemates gasped at the same time. Its bits like that, that make lost what is....fantastic, unpredictable intelligent show. Someone summed it up on another board that if u want to like all the characters and see em get on watch joey. Maybe the actress playing AL is a bit typecast..SO WHAT!?! Her character definately adds to the show than detracts. And if she always plays that kind of role then the casting peeps obviously recognised thats what they wanted in Lost.

Would be fun to see AL spiral down into great depression and for her to be the one that goes out on suicide runs cuz she feels she has nothing to live for.

I really cant understand all this ridiculous hysteria over A L. As i said before deeply flawed but thats what makes the character so great!

I like her. She's not a perfect person, she's made some mistakes and she might not be a brilliant judge of character but then again who's perfect? I understand why she killed that guy who killed her baby and I understand the Nathan/Goodwin thing - she just wanted to save the kids. In all those cases she acted out of desperation and for a good cause (at least in her opinion).

I think she's a great addition to the cast and I can't wait to see her character develop. I guess now that she's with the other survivors she can let her guard down a bit. As a result of that, I think we'll see her become a lot nicer.

I like her. She's not a perfect person, she's made some mistakes and she might not be a brilliant judge of character but then again who's perfect? I understand why she killed that guy who killed her baby and I understand the Nathan/Goodwin thing - she just wanted to save the kids. In all those cases she acted out of desperation and for a good cause (at least in her opinion).

I think she's a great addition to the cast and I can't wait to see her character develop. I guess now that she's with the other survivors she can let her guard down a bit. As a result of that, I think we'll see her become a lot nicer.

hmmmm... i hope not (her becoming nicer). i dont think that will be the case not for a while i hope at least. My guess is that shes gonna get severe bullying from the other survivors and become very isolated from the group. Which can only make her character that much more interesting. I hope she doesnt play the sympathy card (i dont think she will) cause i feel we as viewers are starting to sympathise with her already (well those of us that actually see her as a fleshed out character instead of slating her cuz we dislike her). As more time goes on with the rest of them shunning her, the more we want her to be accepted by them. I think it would very unrealistic for the others to let her in as one of them no matter how nice she is.

I agree with those you like AL. I can't imagine someone losing their baby in a violent situation and not having some kind of PTSD. If anything, her going through this in her past makes me even more sympathetic to her character. All she has done so far on the show is try to protect herself and the people with her. Yes she made a mistake and killed Shannon accidentally. But she was freaked out by the whispers and had some crazy woman yelling and running at her and group. I'm not sure they realized how close they were to the other camp to be able to stop and think that it could be another survivor.

A-L = victim, mother of murdered child, liar, corrupt cop, cold blooded killer, vengeful, over protective....etc etc And people dont want her on this show....Go watch the brady bunch!!!!

How many sides can one character have? She is one messed up gal! And Lost is all the better for it!

hmmmm... i hope not (her becoming nicer). i dont think that will be the case not for a while i hope at least. My guess is that shes gonna get severe bullying from the other survivors and become very isolated from the group. Which can only make her character that much more interesting. I hope she doesnt play the sympathy card (i dont think she will) cause i feel we as viewers are starting to sympathise with her already (well those of us that actually see her as a fleshed out character instead of slating her cuz we dislike her). As more time goes on with the rest of them shunning her, the more we want her to be accepted by them. I think it would very unrealistic for the others to let her in as one of them no matter how nice she is.

I don't mean nice as pie - I just meant she might lose some of that bada*s attitude now that she is in a bigger group. I agree that they won't let her in just like that but they are not gonna let her die either should the others come for her or her "friends". It is not as dangerous for the tailies anymore, they've got more people looking out for them now. I think she will be isolated until she makes the first step and I guess it will take her a while to bring herself to be nice to the group (this is kind of the same as the Sawyer scenario, he started to be a bit more of a teamplayer and the group accepted him). It will be interesting to watch in any case. The other tailies have already changed sides so they're not gonna stand by her (except maybe Eko, I think there's some sort of connection between them, respect, or even friendship).

I always compare actors in a (good) drama to wrestlers, if the audience doesn't react strongly (positive and negative are both fine) to the character then the character is mostly useless. A neutral audience reaction is by far the worst scenario. Ana Lucia has generated a HUGE amount of audience emotion so I commend the writers and the actress for doing a terrific job. :)

Remember, it is better to hate a character than to not care at all. And figuring out why you hate a character will reveal a lot about yourself in the process. :)

Oh dont get me wrong i agree. Its just that i dont think she has to be nicer for her to be accepted (us as viewers) on the show. People just get on my nerves when they say they dont want her on cuz they dont like her......isnt that the point? I want an edgier character on there that u might not supposed to like. I see her more as a tragic character. She loses her baby and seeks vengence (Not that unrealistic in my eyes). She has issues with protecting people (probably over compensating for the baby she couldnt protect) She flipped when she saw the baby in womans arms with guy with tv. And on island shes trying to protect the people around her. I think she'll feel relieved that she doesnt have to do that anymore. hmmmmmm....wonder if something will happen to claires baby and that will make her flip again. I remember a couple of eps back when we were first introduced to her....my friends didnt like her but i knew there was something more to her....i even liked her then. But thats not the point whether i like her or not. the point is the show is better for her in. and what i meant before was that i dont need her to be 'nice' for me to enjoy her character.

I completely agree!

About losing the baby, I lost a baby because I got punched in the stomach a few years ago, intentionally, so I can totally understand why she shot the bloke and not only once but what, six times?! I felt like doing the same back then. It is murder, sure, but she did have a valid reason for shooting him, she didn't just kill him for the fun of it!

I find it really annoying that some people just hate her for the sake of hating someone. First they hated her because she was so mean to Sawyer and now they probably don't even know why they hate her anymore. They don't even bother to think about why she acts the way she does. (I intentionally said some people, so if whoever is reading this has valid reasons for hating her, just ignore this :biggrin: , I don't mean to offend anyone).

Interesting point about Aaron, it'll be interesting to see her react to the baby. I think she'll try to protect it as much as she tried to protect them two kids (Emma and the boy).

Glad we agree :)

I think shooting six times is quite important. I think that this is a girl who has lead a pretty much normal life up to the point of her being shot. After that point her life and the way she reacts to situations changes. I know in my life experiences people react differently to situations....i have had a friend gone scizophrenic after her grandad died (i didnt when mine died)...a friend become suicidle after relationship ended (i didnt when mine ended) Does this mean im a better or worse person? No it means that we arent all the same and that we all react differently. A Ls partner looked surprised and horrified when she pulled a gun on that guy with tv.....as if before she would have never have done that. Certain situations can change people and make them do irrational things. Oh god..... i sound so holy than thou.....really im not lol.

I have to agree with you again! Spot on! :)

Libby told A=L she was a bad judge of character. No one in the cast is what they appeared to be when we first met them. I suspect that sometime in the future a character that everyone loved is going to turn out to be a big bad.

I have argued for A=L on other threads and it's not because I'm a MR fan. She is there because TPTB have a plan.

I think she's great and I can't wait for her to pick up one of the kalashnikovs from the hatch so she can start shooting more people.

Interesting point about Aaron, it'll be interesting to see her react to the baby. I think she'll try to protect it as much as she tried to protect them two kids (Emma and the boy).
At first I thought things might really blow up when Ana gets to the Losties' camp and sees Claire with Aaron, and Charlie with Aaron...but I think maybe I was confusing Ana with Danielle. I don't think Ana would kidnap someone's baby, but I can see her getting overly protective, over-reacting, and overstepping her bounds. Seeing that little family will surely bring up a lot of pain that she'll have to work through.

I really enjoyed reading this thread! Thank you Controverseigh. I agree, people can be so irrational when talking about the character of ana Lucia, and not even properly argumenting why they hate her.... I'm not saying here that people can't hate het though, everyone is entitled to an opinion (and the posters of this thread have not said that people shouldn't dislike her neither!). In any case it is nice to see how people can talk about something in a reasonable and intelligent way.
I have to say that I don't dislike Ana, sure there were moments when she got on my nerves.... but so did MANY of the other characters (Charlie, Claire, Kate, Sawyer, etc!). I also agree with those who say that TPTB have a plan, they have been able to create an amazing show... they know what they are doing!

I have argued for A=L on other threads and it's not because I'm a MR fan. She is there because TPTB have a plan.

I believe Ana is in the cast to shake things up (and boy is she doing a great job of that!). She's the first real 'action' character in the cast. Can anybody see her just hanging around camp tending the fire, or gathering fruit? No, she's going to have to 'do' something and I think that something is going after the Children. She made a 'promise' to the little girl and she's going to keep it, or die trying. It won't matter to her what anybody else says (except maybe Eko), she's going like-it-or-not. There may be some head-butting with Jack over that but it won't last long.

There have been complaints since the middle of last season that the Lostee's weren't doing the things that 'real' castaways would have to do, i.e. searching, exploring, etc. I think Ana and Eko are TPTB's answer to that. I'm quite sure we are going to see significant 'action/suspense' in the upcoming episodes. I also think the back-stories are going to be smaller and more focused (less screen time) from now on.

Rescuing the children is going to re-align the groups significantly and it's going to be interesting to see who goes and who stays... I can't wait!

Are you ready to RUMBLE...

Oldwiz

I also agree with those who say that TPTB have a plan, they have been able to create an amazing show... they know what they are doing!
Hehe...that's exactly what Ana said in Collision! "I know what I'm doing".

I'm sorry we lost Shannon and Boone. I think there was potential for those characters to go places but I see how their deaths moved the stories along.

However now we get Ana and Eko. Two very interesting controversial characters that are adding 'spice' and 'mystery' to the show. I think it was a smart move on the part of the creative team. If they wouldn't or couldn't do something with Shannon and Boone at least they gave us something to talk about!

I'm sorry we lost Shannon and Boone. I think there was potential for those characters to go places but I see how their deaths moved the stories along.

However now we get Ana and Eko. Two very interesting controversial characters that are adding 'spice' and 'mystery' to the show. I think it was a smart move on the part of the creative team. If they wouldn't or couldn't do something with Shannon and Boone at least they gave us something to talk about!

Yep. We traded the 'lost boy' and the 'mall princess' for 'Ms. SWAT' and the 'Fighting Priest'. Best deal ever...:biggrin:

AL reminds me of the villians on soaps - a character you love to hate. Its okay to hate her/love her. Just remember that, at least in a good story, every character serves a purpose. Our job is to sit back and enjoy the (hopefully) good story.

Some AL haters here (and I'm sure on other boards) are down right scary. One poster was glad she lost her child and hopes she is unable to have another. Whaaat?

Anyway, I for one enjoy the character. She is as multi-dimensional as you can get. There are parts to love, parts to hate and parts to confuse. Kinda like many people we encounter in real life, huh?

I think it's interesting that she was put into almost the same situation but on a different side. She probably thought if Sayid had as much rage and anger as she did that he would kill her but he didn't. I think she probably feels worse that he didn't.

She might still want to live on her own. I don't know if I could, if I was put into the same situation, face the group right now. I would need some time to myself. But maybe someone will convince her otherwise. And if she does decide go to the caves I could see her distancing herself from everyone.

Ana-Lucia Cortez...I think that Eko will be instrumentl in her spiritual evolution and in defending her to the Losties so they accept her (and hopefully they will become a couple).

I read a thread yesterday, about how complacent our lostaways have become (golfing, wandering into the jungle etc.) The idea was basically that the magnetic field is affecting their judgement. I'm wondering if Ana being so over the top is in order for us to notice her change drastically and fast (due to these influences?) She is determined to find those kids, but if she all of a sudden doesn't seem motivated to do that, we'd have a huge clue??? What say you?

I read a thread yesterday, about how complacent our lostaways have become (golfing, wandering into the jungle etc.) The idea was basically that the magnetic field is affecting their judgement. I'm wondering if Ana being so over the top is in order for us to notice her change drastically and fast (due to these influences?) She is determined to find those kids, but if she all of a sudden doesn't seem motivated to do that, we'd have a huge clue??? What say you?

I have this idea that she is going to become very interested in Charlie and Claire...maybe to the point of where she wants them forced to remember things (after all they are the only ones who have been with 'the others' and come back alive) and that might lead to all sorts of conflicts and answer some msyteries.

However IF she drops the ball on this and similar things it would be an interesting developement.

I started off truly hating Ana. But now that she has had the opportunity to show us her humanity I think she's an excellent character. I'm looking forward to learning more about her and seeing what unfolds. She is very much a female version of Sawyer.

I'm not fan of hers BUT I really hate how people aren't giving her a chance to develop.

I agree. The level of the vitriol we've seen aimed in her direction is out of all proportion to what's actually taken place on the screen. The wishes for her to swallow her gun, or otherwise die in a slow, painful, torturous manner are beyond anything we've seen for any of the other characters -- perhaps even including Ethan. What's up with that? It seems we'll forgive Sawyer, Jack, Locke, Sayid and our other faves pretty much anything, rationalize their behavior from here to eternity, but cannot cut Ana the least bit of slack. There are some other things pretty obviously at work here.

I'm wondering if some of the polarization comes from the fact that we're so protective of our group and subconciously annoyed that these new characters are keeping us from learning more about the peeps we've grown to love?
I think this one actually nailed it.

I'm new to this forum, but I've been scrolling through threads obsessively and we've all had suspicions against those tailies. "Libby is an 'other'", "Eko was already on the island", "Cindy is an evil twin" and what not. The only one that seems to have been spared from all of this is Bernard. And why? Because he is the only one with a solid connection to "our" group.

So, I'm going to bare with her for a while.

Javi was on the LB and said that Ana was like everyone else on the show..she is there for a reason.

I'm with waltisfuture on this one. Most of us thought Michael was a dead beat dad. We thought Jin was an abusive husband. We thought Sun was a weak non-assertive woman. Shannon was a complete spoiled Paris Hilton type. We thought Sawyer was total jerk with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. We were WRONG. .

To be honest -- and I realize this is getting off-topic a little, but I'll eventually get back, I hope -- I'm not sure we were wrong as to either Shannon or Sawyer. Shannon's back story did not actually warm me toward her all that much. (Boo-hoo, I'll have to work in Walmart or Mickey Ds like other 18-year-olds). And except that Kate likes him, I'm not sure we've seen anything redeemable in Sawyer (possibly firing the gun at the Walt-snatchers). But we still like/liked them just fine.

We've forgiven the others much worse than we're willing to forgive Ana for. She told Sawyer to shut up? About time someone did.

Ditto. And, Laurie, even if she was meant to be disliked which I believe she was TO A DEGREE, then great, but you have to admit most people aren't just disliking her in the way the producers intended, but rather all out loathing/ignoring her. I'm seeing post after post of people trying to state ways to murder the character, that to me is just a display of serious emotional problems. !

It's these kinds of posts, here and on other boards, that have caused me to take on a kind of Ana-defender position, although she's a character that might not otherwise be among my faves. It's the level of passionate, but pretty irrational HATRED aimed her way that apalls and disgusts me, especially when we've seen other characters do far worse. I think a lot of people really need to try to objectively examine why Ana threatens them so.

It's these kinds of posts, here and on other boards, that have caused me to take on a kind of Ana-defender position, although she's a character that might not otherwise be among my faves. It's the level of passionate, but pretty irrational HATRED aimed her way that apalls and disgusts me, especially when we've seen other characters do far worse. I think a lot of people really need to try to objectively examine why Ana threatens them so.

I feel the same way. I tend to take the side of the person who is at the wrong end of mass anger or the right end of mass love...and I of course take the risk that the mob might sometimes be right!

I have this idea that she is going to become very interested in Charlie and Claire...maybe to the point of where she wants them forced to remember things (after all they are the only ones who have been with 'the others' and come back alive) and that might lead to all sorts of conflicts and answer some msyteries.

However IF she drops the ball on this and similar things it would be an interesting developement.

I'm curious as to why (and how) you think Ana might be 'over-interested(?)' in Claire/Charlie? I can see Claire and the baby, but wouldn't that be more of a maternal thing, or are you thinking she would be jealous of Claire?

Do you think our Lostee's are going to break tradition and actually share information with Ana (about Ethan and the kidnapping), of all people. Now that I think about it, I don't think there has even been a mention of the kidnapping since right after it took place, has there?

I think I see where you're going with this (maybe...), but isn't that a pretty dark place?

Oldwiz

I'm curious as to why (and how) you think Ana might be 'over-interested(?)' in Claire/Charlie? I can see Claire and the baby, but wouldn't that be more of a maternal thing, or are you thinking she would be jealous of Claire?

Do you think our Lostee's are going to break tradition and actually share information with Ana (about Ethan and the kidnapping), of all people. Now that I think about it, I don't think there has even been a mention of the kidnapping since right after it took place, has there?

I think I see where you're going with this (maybe...), but isn't that a pretty dark place?

Oldwiz

OldWiz - (not that I speak for Elf!) I can see AL becoming not only overly interested in Aaron but Claire, and by extension, Charlie. Aaron, for the obvious reason - a renewal of her feelings of loss of her own child. For Claire, its been shown several times that she is entirely clueless as to how to care for and raise a baby. Others have had to step in and help her with the basics. I think, knowing AL's personality, that lack of maternal knowledge is going to irritate her like sand in a shoe. I think there will be a lot of heated exchanges, with AL trying to take over. Charlie will then step in as pseudo-father/protector.

If Ana becomes obsessed with getting the kids and the rest of 'her' people back (remember Danielle? This would be the same thing several times over!) she would have to try and get all the information she can about them. You have to learn about your 'enemy' in order to defeat them.

Charlie and Claire are the ONLY ONES we know of on the island who have been abducted by the others and were able to return to their camp. They lived to 'tell the tale' so to speak..except they aren't telling anything. If Ana wants to go this route.. they would be a wealth of information...if only they could remember! So the solution would be..make them remember. Even if its unpleasant...and yes it would be a very dark place.

Claire mentioned the kidnapping in a scene that was aired on Good Morning America (which I consider cannon because the creative team allows it to be aired..meaning they WANT us to see it). Locke mentiones it in Homecoming "He hanged you from a tree' and Charlie mentions it in "Outlaws' "I killed a murderer. Who kidnapped Claire and strung me up and left me for dead'." So it has been mentioned.

But you are correct in that the losties aren't all that great with sharing information and they might be even more relunctant to share things with a total stranger but remember "never tell the fat guy anything'. People WILL talk.

And we are getting a bit off topic. We should start a speculation thread for the possible directions this character might take. Sorry...

Elf/Honbun:

You may very well be right but if the writers take Ana in that direction I think Michelle would have to be in fear for her life (given the responses to her already). Ana has to be redeemed and your suggestions, while quite possible, would put her in an untenable situation. Badgering/hassling Claire? Beating up Charlie? Whoa! Don't even think about it!:biggrin:
I think it's more in character (at least, what we've been able to see of it so far) to try to round up a posse, or simply go by herself. I think, even if she heard the story of Claire and Charlie, she would simply dismiss it because they CAN'T REMEMBER and wouldn't do her any good.
As an alternative, she might try to find Danielle and team up with her...:rolleyes:

Oldwiz

OldWiz - but, lets say the Losties accept the "It was an accident" defense. Another confrontation, especially with a new Mom involving her baby, would definately bring out the torches and pitchforks! This further ostracization (?) would push her on her quest to find Emma and Zack.

I love Michelle Rodriguez and the Ana Lucia character!

We have not seen it all yet, and I can't wait until we do.

OldWiz - but, lets say the Losties accept the "It was an accident" defense. Another confrontation, especially with a new Mom involving her baby, would definately bring out the torches and pitchforks! This further ostracization (?) would push her on her quest to find Emma and Zack.

It sure would (bring out the torches and pitchforks)!:biggrin:

I just don't think it's needed. I think she's totally motivated to find them already and the more I think about it the more I think she'll try to find Danielle (when she learns of her). I'll bet Ana, Michael, and Danielle get together somehow.

Oldwiz

OldWiz - I think you are probably on the right path. I just got into the "What if....?" frame of mind a little too much. There is talk on some other threads that there will be a search parties with AL, Michael, Eko, Locke and Sayid. Some think they will split when they reach the Arrow Station, with Locke and Eko staying to figure out the Dharma mystery and the others continuing on to find the children.

In anyway it happens, I look forward to our Losties taking step towards shaping their lives rather than living in such a reactionary way. Plus, we would get to see more AL tough-girl on the side of right.

ETA: Where is your "lab" in VA?

And we are getting a bit off topic. We should start a speculation thread for the possible directions this character might take. Sorry...

If it's okay with you Controversleigh, I suggest that we use this thread to discuss Ana and all the thoughts we have on her.

I'm worried that as soon as we try to start individual threads they will not be nearly as productive.

I wonder if Ana's police training will kick in when she meets Charlie and she'll sense that he is a recovering drug addict?

OldWiz - I think you are probably on the right path. I just got into the "What if....?" frame of mind a little too much. There is talk on some other threads that there will be a search parties with AL, Michael, Eko, Locke and Sayid. Some think they will split when they reach the Arrow Station, with Locke and Eko staying to figure out the Dharma mystery and the others continuing on to find the children.

In anyway it happens, I look forward to our Losties taking step towards shaping their lives rather than living in such a reactionary way. Plus, we would get to see more AL tough-girl on the side of right.

ETA: Where is your "lab" in VA?

Yep, I had my 2-cents-worth in on that discussion, too. Locke and Eko are definitely going to be the most interesting actors for a while, IMO.

I didn't notice you were in DC. I'm about 50 miles west in Warrenton. Hiya, neighbor.

Oldwiz

Another confrontation, especially with a new Mom involving her baby, would definately bring out the torches and pitchforks! .

I'm sorry but I don't see the castaways being all that protective of Claire and her baby.

I won't go into the "Claire was taken into the jungle and they didn't look for her all that hard but dug around a mysterious hatch instead' because that one has been done to death.

Who when the 'others' were coming did NOT try and go out of their way to help her out...they all just took off to the caves and didn't seem all that concerned if she made it or not. She was left with a crying baby and Charlie.

So far we have seen Charlie and Locke as the only ones giving a flying flip about her...no one else seems to care all that much.

So if Ana started poking around and asking questions I just don't think the rest of the group would notice. Charlie would ..that is if he and Claire haven't had some kind of spat and aren't speaking.

I'm about 50 miles west in Warrenton. Hiya, neighbor.

Oldwiz


:wavey: Howdy!

I think I get her. These writers don't do two dimensional characters, so I tried hard to bear with Ana during the "permanent PMS" stage of her characterization. We learned a lot more about her during the tailenders' episode and of course, more still this week. She's not one of my favorites, but I don't hate her, and I look forward to her future character development. As the accidental killer of Shannon, she's going to have a tough time integrating into the main camp, which should make for some stirring drama, the moreso because we don't have Sawyer as a real antagonist anymore.

To be honest -- and I realize this is getting off-topic a little, but I'll eventually get back, I hope -- I'm not sure we were wrong as to either Shannon or Sawyer. Shannon's back story did not actually warm me toward her all that much. (Boo-hoo, I'll have to work in Walmart or Mickey Ds like other 18-year-olds). And except that Kate likes him, I'm not sure we've seen anything redeemable in Sawyer (possibly firing the gun at the Walt-snatchers). But we still like/liked them just fine.
Good point. I never liked Shannon, even to the end. She was a spoiled rich girl. Sawyer is growing on me as I learn more about his past and sympathize with him a little better. I would agree that he still has something to prove to his fellow survivors, but I would add saving Michael's life and going back after Jin (all while wounded) as redemptive moments. He also called them "friends", albeit when he didn't think they were in earshot.

I also grow weary of "I hate her because she hit Sawyer'. Oh..then you should REALLY hate Sayid and Jack..and Charlie while you are at it...heck even Kate took a swipe at him.
Hurley, too, for that matter.


Hate everyone who is mean to wittle helpless Sawyer. The funny thing is..Sawyer didn't seem to 'hate' her. His fans seem to hold onto grudges longer than HE does.

True, because he knows that he deserves the abuse, even seeks it out.


Notice I haven't defended Ana yet. She probably suffering from some sort of PTSD. She is slightly unhinged...going 'round the bend'. She's not 'right'. Things about her are twisted. She is coming across as cruel and abrasive. (so did some of the other characters in the begining of the show but that is another thread). Some say she has not shown remorse..although I think when she visited Shannon she looked very contrite and she had tears in her eyes when she faced down Sayid. That looked pretty remorseful to me. However she hasn't had a lot of time to show remorse. She's barely come to terms with the fact that she shot an innocent bystander.

So I hope that I 'get' it. I think she is a great addition to the cast...if nothing else the character is good for debate and has injected some...controversy into the show.
Oh yeah, no doubt. And I think she looked very remorseful after shooting Shannon....horrified, even.

I would like to see an episode where she ends up helping one of the other castaways and starts getting like more. Like helping Claire with her baby.:)
I think we almost certainly will.

At first I thought things might really blow up when Ana gets to the Losties' camp and sees Claire with Aaron, and Charlie with Aaron...but I think maybe I was confusing Ana with Danielle. I don't think Ana would kidnap someone's baby, but I can see her getting overly protective, over-reacting, and overstepping her bounds. Seeing that little family will surely bring up a lot of pain that she'll have to work through.

I never mentioned anything bout ana kidnapping the baby infact i meant the exact opposite. If u read my earlier posts i was commenting on the way ana feels she has to protect others to compensate for the death of her baby. So she might feel the need to protect claire and baby (being a new mother on some remote island with psychopaths on it)

Thanks for this thread...I don't like how people are making her out to be the world's worst human being..

So far we have seen Charlie and Locke as the only ones giving a flying flip about her...no one else seems to care all that much.

So if Ana started poking around and asking questions I just don't think the rest of the group would notice. Charlie would ..that is if he and Claire haven't had some kind of spat and aren't speaking.

Maybe this will be where Libby comes in - she's a clinical psychologist and maybe can do some hypnosis stuff to get Claire to remember. Now, that I could see, and it would certainly start to clear up the mystery about that incident. That still leaves a bad taste in my mouth...amnesia my arse.:mad:

But, no way is Ana going to do anything harmful to Claire. I'll bet you 10 I-TOLD-YOU-SO's on that one...:biggrin:

Oldwiz

I never mentioned anything bout ana kidnapping the baby infact i meant the exact opposite. If u read my earlier posts i was commenting on the way ana feels she has to protect others to compensate for the death of her baby. So she might feel the need to protect claire and baby (being a new mother on some remote island with psychopaths on it)
I didn't think that you did...I was merely stating what my thoughts were...we're cool.:cool: Actually I agree with you...Ana was protective of the 815 children but they were taken and I think she feels somewhat responsible...so she will be even more diligent if/when she has a chance to take care of another child. I think your point is why she went off at the domestic violence call...she had her eye on that baby and the mother didn't take her baby upstairs when Ana ordered her to, and Ana lost her cool.

Maybe this will be where Libby comes in - she's a clinical psychologist and maybe can do some hypnosis stuff to get Claire to remember.
Oldwiz Ana will also need help after what happened. In addition to Libby, I think Rose and Eko are good candidates to help her over the rough period. I suspect that Ana has been clinically depressed for quite a while. Ooooh! I can see the group sessions now! Libby treating Ana, Sayid & Sawyer as they sit around the campfire on the warm tropical beach sipping banana daiquiris or maybe just some good old fashioned home brew. I assume by this time someone has set up a still?

And not Charlie? Walking around with heroin in his backback? That guy needs help NOW!

Of course in his situation he needs to actually 'ask' for it first. That should take half the season.

Ana will also need help after what happened. In addition to Libby, I think Rose and Eko are good candidates to help her over the rough period. I suspect that Ana has been clinically depressed for quite a while. Ooooh! I can see the group sessions now! Libby treating Ana, Sayid & Sawyer as they sit around the campfire on the warm tropical beach sipping banana daiquiris or maybe just some good old fashioned home brew. I assume by this time someone has set up a still?

LMAO!!!

Poor Libby, she'll have a nervous breakdown just LISTENING to all the problems these people have! The poor woman will never get to sleep...

I think it's interesting that she was put into almost the same situation but on a different side. She probably thought if Sayid had as much rage and anger as she did that he would kill her but he didn't. I think she probably feels worse that he didn't.

She might still want to live on her own. I don't know if I could, if I was put into the same situation, face the group right now. I would need some time to myself. But maybe someone will convince her otherwise. And if she does decide go to the caves I could see her distancing herself from everyone.

It's interesting that you should say this, because I got the distinct impression that A-L reminded Sayid of Danielle. His reaction as he watched her give Michael her list of demands was interesting at the very least. As someone who self-imposed a sentence of exile on himself, which led to meeting Danielle, who was also alone, I couldn't help thinking he could relate.

Elf/Honbun:

As an alternative, she might try to find Danielle and team up with her...:rolleyes:

Oldwiz

It sure would (bring out the torches and pitchforks)!:biggrin:

I just don't think it's needed. I think she's totally motivated to find them already and the more I think about it the more I think she'll try to find Danielle (when she learns of her). I'll bet Ana, Michael, and Danielle get together somehow.

Oldwiz

I really see Sayid in that group as well. Getting Walt back to Michael is going to be a priority for him IMHO. It was something Shannon wanted to accomplish to prove herself.

It's interesting that you should say this, because I got the distinct impression that A-L reminded Sayid of Danielle. His reaction as he watched her give Michael her list of demands was interesting at the very least. As someone who self-imposed a sentence of exile on himself, which led to meeting Danielle, who was also alone, I couldn't help thinking he could relate.
I really see Sayid in that group as well. Getting Walt back to Michael is going to be a priority for him IMHO. It was something Shannon wanted to accomplish to prove herself.

I agree. I think Sayid will understand and relate to Ana more than people think. Certainly not on a romantic level but on a 'soul' (for lack of a better term) level.

Oldwiz

I think it's interesting that she was put into almost the same situation but on a different side. She probably thought if Sayid had as much rage and anger as she did that he would kill her but he didn't. I think she probably feels worse that he didn't.
True...also, because she killed (in cold blood) someone who killed someone SHE loved (her unborn baby), she could not comprehend that Sayid would not do the same. Sayid was teaching her something.

Whoever it was that commented on Ana and Sayid having something in common about being alone...going off alone...understanding each other that way...I agree.

I also love AL, she completely kicks ***. It's sad, but i really think the reason so many people are trashing her on this site is because they have their own preconceived notions about how female protagonists should be and act. It's so rare to see a character like her on television who embodies the same traits that an audience would easily admire in a male hero, but is motivated by issues that stem from the very core of femininity. How great is that?
if anyone is still reading this thread, I'm excited about a "what if?" idea i have...

what if AL recognizes Kate the criminal? And what if she knows that kate has done something really, really bad? But the losties already love Kate b/c she's so sweet and cute, and everyone dislikes AL b/c she's the crazy tough chick who killed Shannon?

hey, why are they censoring the word ***? is *** a bad word now?

what if AL recognizes Kate the criminal? And what if she knows that kate has done something really, really bad? But the losties already love Kate b/c she's so sweet and cute, and everyone dislikes AL b/c she's the crazy tough chick who killed Shannon?


It remains to be seen how many of the losties love Kate. To love her would imply a certain level of trust, which many of the losties may not really place with Kate since her "outing." I do find it puzzling that Hurley and Charlie seem to have forgotten all about that little incident.

I would think that A-L might be hesitant to judge someone else's crimes, given her own guilt at this point. If that weren't the case, she surely would have killed Sayid after his confession that he had tortured and killed men in the past, one of whom he had tortured in the last 48 days. If she knows something, I think she'll be withholding that information for a while. I'm having a hard time imagining that Kate could have done something worse than what A-L has done.

I don't know, I'm sure most people will whole-heartedly justify Kat'es killing....no matter what or why....while Ana will still be "evil". :D

Seriously though, hilbot, I loved your...

It's so rare to see a character like her on television who embodies the same traits that an audience would easily admire in a male hero, but is motivated by issues that stem from the very core of femininity.

Exactly.

I went to this PTSD website and yup, sounds like what Ana's going through.

http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/facts/general/fs_effects.html

I went to this PTSD website and yup, sounds like what Ana's going through.

http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/facts/general/fs_effects.html
Ana and many others in the lost group. Thanks for the link.

preconceived notions about how female protagonists should be and act. It's so rare to see a character like her on television who embodies the same traits that an audience would easily admire in a male hero, but is motivated by issues that stem from the very core of femininity. :biggrin: :biggrin: Nice way to phrase it.

Thanks Controversleigh and Fogey! Great thread!

Thank you for starting this thread! What I really liked about this episode is how it went into Ana's background. A friend (a non-'lager) and I were talking about the show before this episode when I wasn't sure what to make of Ana and he said, "I don't know but I think she's been through a lot." I think this episode explains a lot about how Ana acts. Honestly, I would not be the most congenial person if I were shot while pregnant and had a miscarriage...I really cannot blame her for being aggressive, because I think it's caused by this tragedy and her guilt of having shot people. I think largely she is trying to protect herself and her loved ones. I did like that she and Sayid shared the feeling of guilt, and this episode also explained a question I had, which is why she always asks people if they have kids. I respect Ana, because of what she's been through and although her temper may flare at times, I think she's been strong in how she has dealt with everything.

I think Jack may have his partner in misery, the way Kate has Sawyer. Ana lost her "spouse" when he probably left because she chose her job over her life and the life of their child. And Jack, well, that's a big one isn't it. Something rocked that relationship as well. I for one love Michelle's work. I wanted to cry when she shot Jason and said "I was pregnant" -- well done.

I was crying at the end of the episode. I've noticed the writers like to end with sensitive moments and those always get to me, and this time especially when Ana and Jack's eyes met.

I was crying at the end of the episode. I've noticed the writers like to end with sensitive moments and those always get to me, and this time especially when Ana and Jack's eyes met.

Me too and I'm regular grown man. Lots of credit to the actors and music the show uses in these moments. I knew exactly what Jack was thinking when he looked at Ana. Sayid too he looked so broken and beaten when he looked at Jack.

Getting back to Ana. She is a very tortured soul. She feels guilty over killing Shannon and perhaps over killing that Jason too, knowing deep down that a good cop wouldn't do that. Perhaps it didn't make her feel better like she expected.
The writers could've made this episode more dramatic by having Ana point the gun at herself and Sayid talking her out of it because they are "both dead." It was great the way it was though.

I think she does feel guilty over Jason...I don't see how one could kill someone without it having some sort of emotional effect on them. I'm not really saying that from a psychiatric point i.e. not necessarily including people who have problems with chemical imbalances in the brain or whatever but from more of a psychological view...although I have never taken psychology in my life so I could be all wrong.

Just stating the facts. In essence Ana-Lucia is a murderer, if what we saw really happened, she is a premeditated murderer. Extenuating circumstances (if this says cirfairyduststances it will make my night. Darn it's been fixed) Jason
She killed Goodwin in self defense. She killed an Other in self defense.

Mr. Eko killed 2 Others in self defense.
Charlie murdered Ethan
Sawyer murdered the Shrinp Guy, oops probably wrong guy. Tried to kill the Marshal oops, missed.
Kate, well she says she killed someone
Jack killed the Marshal - mercy killing
Sayid various killings and torture - War related (added by popular demand)
We now have 8 killers on the island. We understand the motives for most of them and Kate is still hanging out there.

Then there's Danielle that says she killed everyone on her team.
Craphole Island one of the worst places to live in the world.

Just stating the facts. In essence Ana-Lucia is a murderer, if what we saw really happened, she is a premeditated murderer. Extenuating circumstances (if this says cirfairyduststances it will make my night. Darn it's been fixed) Jason
She killed Goodwin in self defense. She killed an Other in self defense.

Mr. Eko killed 2 Others in self defense.
Charlie murdered Ethan
Sawyer murdered the Shrinp Guy, oops probably wrong guy. Tried to kill the Marshal oops, missed.
Kate, well she says she killed someone
Jack killed the Marshal - mercy killing
We now have 6 killers on the island. We understand the motives for most of them and Kate is still hanging out there.

Don't forget about Sayid. He admits to torturing and killing while in the Republican Guard.

Just stating the facts. In essence Ana-Lucia is a murderer, if what we saw really happened, she is a premeditated murderer. Extenuating circumstances (if this says cirfairyduststances it will make my night. Darn it's been fixed) Jason
She killed Goodwin in self defense. She killed an Other in self defense.

Mr. Eko killed 2 Others in self defense.
Charlie murdered Ethan
Sawyer murdered the Shrinp Guy, oops probably wrong guy. Tried to kill the Marshal oops, missed.
Kate, well she says she killed someone
Jack killed the Marshal - mercy killing
We now have 6 killers on the island. We understand the motives for most of them and Kate is still hanging out there.

Kate feels responsible for her friend’s death, but did not actually kill him. Although she probably could face some charges in his death since he died as a result of the crime she was committing. So I don't think she should be in your killer count. However Danielle could make number 6 if your are not restricting it to flight 815 survivors.

Kate feels responsible for her friend’s death, but did not actually kill him. Although she probably could face some charges in his death since he died as a result of the crime she was committing. So I don't think she should be in your killer count. However Danielle could make number 6 if your are not restricting it to flight 815 survivors.There's still Kate's original crime. The Marshal was on her trail before the accident happened with Tom. She may feel responsible for Tom but I believe her admission to killing someone stems further back.

Don't forget about Sayid. He admits to torturing and killing while in the Republican Guard.I was going to put Sayid on the list, well I guess he's a vague as Kate is. We haven't seen either one kill anyone.

The list has be edited. Now I really don't want to live there.

I was going to put Sayid on the list, well I guess he's a vague as Kate is. We haven't seen either one kill anyone.

He's not quite as vague as Kate. He was very graphic in his description of shooting the guy that planted the bomb on the policeman's car, the one that ended up killing the policeman's family instead. He told Charlie he did it without an ounce of remorse. Of course, we saw him shoot his superior to help Nadia escape. I think there are an awful lot of killers on the island, justified or not. Hmm...

Hi, I've decided to join this thread. :smile: I do understand Ana Lucia, and I admit I can relate to her profuse quick anger a lot of times. If I were to put myself in Ana's shoes, when that guy shot her in the stomach and killed her baby, I probably would have been emotional with a grudge and shot him myself. Having said that I hope I don't sound freaky.

There's still Kate's original crime. The Marshal was on her trail before the accident happened with Tom. She may feel responsible for Tom but I believe her admission to killing someone stems further back.

Wait....I thought the Marshal was chasing her after all that stuff happened. I'm sure that first she was with Tom and opened that time capsule with the plane inside it, then got him killed, then pretended to be a bank robber in order to get the plane for some reason, and then as a result of that the Marshal was on her tail. I think she must have killed someone a while back.

Oh yeah, and Locke indirectly killed Boone. Nice thread by the way.

He's not quite as vague as Kate. He was very graphic in his description of shooting the guy that planted the bomb on the policeman's car, the one that ended up killing the policeman's family instead. He told Charlie he did it without an ounce of remorse. Of course, we saw him shoot his superior to help Nadia escape. I think there are an awful lot of killers on the island, justified or not. Hmm...I forgot the guy he shot so Nadia could escape. Well he's on the list and of all the Killers. Kate doesn't look so bad now.

It's so rare to see a character like her on television who embodies the same traits that an audience would easily admire in a male hero, but is motivated by issues that stem from the very core of femininity. How great is that?

That sums it up so perfectly.

MR drew a tough, tough card joining the show as Ana-Lucia. The way AL has treated the established characters is pretty brutal: beating them up, imprisoning them, ordering them around and finally killing one by mistake. Heck of an entrance.

I think she's a great character. I don't feel all warm and fuzzy about her mind you, but I can't wait to see her next move. Her interactions with a number of characters should be very interesting. She's certainly set up to cause friction on many levels within the group. Eko seems to be her only lifeline right now. She will have an interesting road to redemption and I look forward to seeing some of her walls come down.

I'm interested to see how her relationship with Libby changes. Libby basically turned on her, holding the Nathan thing against her. A bit of a slap in the face IMO considering Libby egged AL on with suspecting Nathan. The look AL gave her in that scene was priceless.

I loved the scenes with her talking to Sayid alone. The way she fidgets with the gun. The look in her eyes when she says "I feel dead". The final eye contact with Jack, so so much conveyed in that scene.

I think she's a good addition simply because she is a woman of action, she's not going to be content sitting around camp. She has a clear mission, find the kids. She and Michael will spur the group into finally going on the offensive against the others. Now they have the firepower to do so without leaving the main camp vulnerable. Game on.

Well said, duckyislost. It seems to me that many here are not separating "what Ana did" from Ana the person (I know she's a fictional character, btw). And hating the doer, not the deed. She is not without redeeming qualities and potential to change for the better, IMHO. So many have eloquently stated positive traits in this thread that I don't have much to add at this moment.

If nothing else, her character has a purpose in the story and it will be fascinating to see how things play out.

Regarding MR the actor...I think she must have known very well how this role would be very controversial and generate some negative reactions. IMHO she's a very smart woman because she is not going to be forgotten any time soon.:biggrin:

I think the problem is that a lot of us don't see ANY redeeming qualities.

I think the problem is that a lot of us don't see ANY redeeming qualities.
I don't see that as a problem. If everyone had the exact same opinion on every topic, our discussions would consist of one interpretation followed by a whole bunch of
"me too"'s, "same here"'s, and "yes I was going to say that" and nothing else...not very intellectually stimulating or even interesting...JMHO. And we wouldn't be learning much from each other. Might as well just slam our minds shut.

We wouldn't even need menus in restaurants.:)

Very true. And this ties in with the "murder list" too. We all have different opinions about each instance, I'm sure, even though we're all (hopefully) against murder as a general principle. But the potential "grey areas" they've introduced to us have blown my mind a little. Murder for revenge, murder to protect a loved one, murder as duty, murder as mercy, etc. But Ana-Lucia's crime is the one that gets right to my guts- murder as justice? Is there such a thing? And is her character so compelling to me because i am forced to admit that i might have done the same thing?

(ps- Excuse my Canadian spelling)

I'm still hoping to see more of her back story soon. The "I was pregnant" and when did she know, why "I was a cop", her physical recuperation. And on the Island, why she said "they took a lot of things" after Michael said "they took my son" (discussing The Others). Even if we've been shown everything that's important from the Tailies' 48 days, I still wonder what that meant.

I don't condone some of the things she's done but I do want to know the "why"'s, and I do want to see her change for the better.

Very true. And this ties in with the "murder list" too. We all have different opinions about each instance, I'm sure, even though we're all (hopefully) against murder as a general principle. But the potential "grey areas" they've introduced to us have blown my mind a little. Murder for revenge, murder to protect a loved one, murder as duty, murder as mercy, etc. But Ana-Lucia's crime is the one that gets right to my guts- murder as justice? Is there such a thing? And is her character so compelling to me because i am forced to admit that i would have done the same thing?

(ps- Excuse my Canadian spelling)OK you got me :mad: I read your post several times looking for the "Canadian spelling".

I would not call Ana's killing of the perp "Justice". Revenge or vengeance are the words that come to my mind, not justice. Although I will grant you justified also occurs to me. Er nit picking here, aren't I.:redface:

She may feel responsible for Tom but I believe her admission to killing someone stems further back.
Regarding Kate, If her original crime includes a killing, I am willing to bet it will turn out to be a case of self defense.

I don't like Ana Lucia's character. And I don't think the writers intended anyone to. As I've said in other posts, we've gotten used to a formula flashback=sympathy. Collision totally turned that on its head which I think is brilliant. Ana Lucia's insides are deep dark inky black. Girlfriend's got issues. One's which won't be solved overnight like Charlies heroin addiction (well even that looks like it will get further development this season). It should be interesting. And even though we "understand" why she's at the breaking point, no one should let her handle a weapon for a while. "No gun for you!"

I don't see that as a problem.

It's a problem in the sense that from TPTB viewpoint, we were supposed to regain sympathy for her based on this episode. It didn't work for many viewers (especially since I never had sympathy for her in the first place,so I don't know what I was supposed to regain.).

It's a problem in the sense that from TPTB viewpoint, we were supposed to regain sympathy for her based on this episode. It didn't work for many viewers (especially since I never had sympathy for her in the first place,so I don't know what I was supposed to regain.).

Why do you assume that was the purpose? Maybe the point was to show that she hit rock bottom. She probably thought she had hit rock bottom with the loss of her baby and her husband/boyfriend, but as she found out, things can get worse. The look on Jack's face, at first I thought he saw AL hanging from a tree. She has completely bottomed out and she has no where to go but up.

I "get" Ana-Lucia. Every irrational action. Every overreaction. The fear, anxiety, need to control the situation for fear of everything falling apart. Someone has to take charge. You have to do what you have to do. It's not easy being the leader, not everyone is going to like you or agree with your decisions. You will be hated and respected at the same time. You will do whatever it takes to protect those who are counting on you. GOD, do I know how she feels. That's my everyday life as a Mother. A coincidental similarity? Hmmm.... I wonder? :undecide:

I would not call Ana's killing of the perp "Justice". Revenge or vengeance are the words that come to my mind, not justice. Although I will grant you justified also occurs to me. Er nit picking here, aren't I.:redface:


I'm not sure it's nitpicking. I'm struggling with the same issues myself. What Ana did, when she killed Jason, was not justice. There was no impartial judgment. Nobody heard his side of things. Ana set herself up as judge, jury and executioner. Ana killed Shannon by accident because of her fear, her past, and the things going on around her. She didn't know that Shannon was not a threat to her. Yet, we have no idea why Jason did what he did. Was he acting under duress? Would we consider his actions "justified" if he were robbing a pharmacy to get medicine for a sick loved one that he couldn't afford to buy? It's the classic morality test isn't it? If we forgive Ana what she did to Jason because of her circumstances, we have to completely disregard the idea that Jason may have had his own circumstances.

I've seen Unforgiven, and it was an exceptional movie IMHO. The difference between Munny and AL for me is that the actions of the Munny character, good or bad, fit the logic and rules of the world and time in which he lived. In the world of Lost, which is supposed to be "real reality," according to TPTB, Ana-Lucia's vigilante killing of Jason doesn't fit the character. She's a young police officer, born to a mother who is a police officer. The law is central to her identity. For the writers to portray her disregard of the law without offering a substantial explanation seems implausible to me. The loss of a child will make a person want to kill, but to cross the line and actually do it with cold calculation requires a catalyst that IMHO I don't think we have seen. I'm not saying we won't see something like that, but for the moment I don't find that part of her story believeable.

Thank you, Stircrazy!!! I'm a mom too, and i think we're coming from the same place. Before I had my baby i thought i had experienced the entire gamut of life's emotions, but i had no real concept of motherhood as the awesomely powerful, life-changing force that it is until i experienced it myself. Sure, we can judge AL from an audience perspective and impose our own views of morality on her character, but i do not question her motivation or her "dark insides" or whatever. She was a lioness who had her cub taken away.

Hi Fogey, i called it "murder as justice" not as my own interpretation, necessarily, but justice in AL's mind. Because she could have let him go to prison forever, but in her mind that wasn't enough. Only killing him would be real justice. (seems like she's re-thinking that, though)

(as for Canadian spelling, "grey" & "principle" vs "gray" & "principal"? I'm not too sure about American spelling. Just please don't throw me in the pit :)

Why do you assume that was the purpose? Maybe .

I didn't assume anything. There was a quote from TPTB stating such.

I didn't assume anything. There was a quote from TPTB stating such.Would TPTB have perhaps succeeded if they had made the flash back slightly longer so that we saw the interaction where Ana hesitated at the door to allow the perp to show his ID and was rewarded for that consideration by being shot multiple times? I think seeing her actually suffer that violence would have made a substantial difference in the audience reaction to her later revenge.

Hey all.

I like Ana Lucia.

She's such a wild card (which I believe is her function on the show) and I think she has potential as a key villain on the show or at least the henchwoman of a key villain.

I really like AL as a character. I adore those tough chick, take no prisioners, no holds barred strong female characters. Yet in many ways she is so very very fragile.

I agree with hilbot in saying that people don't like her because she is a female doing what would be applauded in men. But somehow her protecting of the weak tallies, especially the children, seems like a femine trait to me. She just does it in an agressive way that is putting people off but it's the only way she knows how. A momma bear if you will or as said above a lioness.

In elfdreams first post on this thread on pg. one she lists out our first preconcieved ideas of out losties and they have changed for the better now. I expect the same for Ana Lucia but it's going to be a long hard slog for her. Her personality dosen't seem like she's going to win friends and influnce people right off the bat. I think Eko will be there for her and be a lifeline and I can see her eventually having some sort of bond with Jack and possibly Sayid.

Her presence is going to have a big big impact on "our" castaways and hopefully get them out and moving around the island. We were getting too complacent with "our" favorites and everything was nicey nice, she's going to stir the pot and I can't wait. We aren't going to get any answers about this island and the others by them just staying in the caves or on the beach.

Tela

I agree with hilbot in saying that people don't like her because she is a female doing what would be applauded in men.

I don't want to run into a pro-Ana thread but I do have to say I hate that people continue to say this towards those of us that dislike her. I'm sure there are some of those that it applies to just as the opposite may be true. However, for a great many of us and certainly everyone I've personally talked to, it has absolutely nothing with her being a woman. If she were a man, I'd still dislike her. I don't care for her personality especially in how she acts towards others around her and I don't care for the bad name that she gives to police work. It's just how I feel but it has nothing to do with her gender. I love strong women but truthfully outside of physical strength, I don't see her as one.

Would TPTB have perhaps succeeded if they had made the flash back slightly longer so that we saw the interaction where Ana hesitated at the door to allow the perp to show his ID and was rewarded for that consideration by being shot multiple times? I think seeing her actually suffer that violence would have made a substantial difference in the audience reaction to her later revenge.

I don't think that would have made a difference for me - I would have needed more.

To be fair, if Jack hadn't given Sawyer that gun, Shannon would still be alive.

A firearm in Sawyer's hands, never seems to work out.

Would TPTB have perhaps succeeded if they had made the flash back slightly longer so that we saw the interaction where Ana hesitated at the door to allow the perp to show his ID and was rewarded for that consideration by being shot multiple times? I think seeing her actually suffer that violence would have made a substantial difference in the audience reaction to her later revenge.

Maybe for some people. My reaction to her revenge is that I don't care for the means she used to get it.

As a character, she's a good one. She evokes strong emotional responses from the viewers. That she evokes a strong negative response is just as good as a strong positive response. She strikes a chord, so she's either a well-written or a well-acted character. I just don't like her yet. I'm not even sure the writers mean for me to.

*raises hand*

I get it. This thread was an awesome idea. :-) I haven't finished rerading through it yet, but I must give kudos to Controverseleigh for the tragic hero analogy. I don't think Ana Lucia will end up quite being this, but its a nifty idea, and much closer to the point then, "ahh. ana lucia sux and should totally DIE!!!"

I think AL's a very compelling character. She's real. Someone wrote about how if she were a man, there wouldn't be this sort of reaction to her. I agree.
I can't wait for things to begin developing between Jack and AL... along with Sawyer and Kate of course.. that's going to be an interesting dynamic..
To me, MR is a great actress. She brings out powerful emotions in her character and she draws the audience in so well. Just the fact that there's so much controversy and discussion going on about AL is a testament to her talent. And of course, to the genuis of TPTB.
Cheers!

Why do you assume that was the purpose? Maybe the point was to show that she hit rock bottom. She probably thought she had hit rock bottom with the loss of her baby and her husband/boyfriend, but as she found out, things can get worse. The look on Jack's face, at first I thought he saw AL hanging from a tree. She has completely bottomed out and she has no where to go but up.
I disagree. I think there's still plenty of down for her to reach. For one thing, despite her regret over killing Shannon, her basic arrogance still remains. She was demonstrably not ready to be back on patrol, but she thought she knew better than the shrink, the captain, and her partner. I predict she won't stay in the background for long, but will soon be jockeying for leadership of the whole damned group, telling Jack and the others how everything should be done. I think her real flaw is that she overestimates both her intelligence and abilities, and she doesn't work well with a team. She's hyper-sensitive to having her authority challenged, first by Nathan who ended up in the pit, and subsequently dead, because of her unfounded suspicions. I submit she was biased against him because he challenged her authority, and she fixed on him as a suspect based on that bias. When she later thought about it, it was easy enough for her to figure out it had been Goodwin all along. She acted the same toward Sawyer, whom she beat down for challenging her authority... and by what bloody right does she even think she HAS any authority over Jin, Michael, and Sawyer anyway?

With the guns back at camp, I predict she'll want to start an army, with her as the general, of course. IMO, she has so much hate and rage in her, she's the last person who should be anywhere near either leadership or guns. I don't like the character. Whatever her pain, I think her behavior toward others is hateful, including members of her own group. The way she turned on Eko and sneered at him that it was his fault Cindy had disappeared, the way she was ready to just abandon Sawyer to die in the jungle, the way she intimidated everyone with the gun after she killed Shannon, forcing them all to sit around and wait while she tried to figure out how to save her own butt. Lots of people suffer tragedies in their lives. Some were unlikable even before it happened, some turn into monstrous versions of themselves afterwards. It doesn't make the tragic event any less sad, but it does tend to alientate any sympathy one might otherwise feel toward them.

As has been stated by so many others, and is often ignored, I would find her personality just as ugly and her behavior just as hateful if she were a man. In fact, I think if there's a gender bias, it probably runs in the other direction. Poor Michael was getting ragged on for being obsessed with finding Walt, even though the child was literally ripped from his arms only a few days before and he did nothing to endanger anyone else when he ran off to find him in the jungle.

I don't have any use for the character of Ana and I'm not particularly happy about her addition to the cast. I don't think the actress is particularly skillful, and I resent the amount of time and energy that has been given over to this character in recent episodes.

While it's true that there's a lot of venom being directed toward this character by some posters at one extreme, I'd like to point out that some of her defenders are equally unpalatable with their insulting air of superiority, i.e. as if only THEY are intelligent enough to get what the writers mean, such as in the first post on this thread. I've seen hundreds of well-reasoned posts explaining why people don't like the character, or don't find her particularly sympathetic, written by people every bit as intelligent as this group purports to be.

As one of "this group" I'd just like to say that I've never even thought of people that like AL as being more intelligent (and I'm sure no-one else has either). The only thing that annoys me (and many others) is that people judged AL from the moment she appeared on screen either because she hit poor Sawyer or because they just don't like the actress. Nobody knew anything about the character then and now that we do know some things about her, we still hear the same old "I hate her because she hit Sawyer". That is not a valid reason for hating a character (especially because Sawyer has been hit by quite a few people) and people that say stuff like that are not necessarily unintelligent, it just seems that they just don't bother to think about why they don't like her, they just like saying "I hate her".

You, on the other hand, have obviously put some thought into this and have explained your reasons for not liking her (as have many others). That's fine with me, I can understand your point of view and if every AL-hater would write posts like you do, there wouldn't be any arguments over the subject, only discussions.

I like AL because I think she's an interesting character, there will be loads of fights with the fusies and it will be interesting to see how she will behave now that she's with a bigger group. I think we'll see a softer side to her soon, we already did after she shot Shannon - she looked really freaked out and sad about what she'd done. She has made some grave errors of judgement (e.g. Nathan) but she's done it all for a good cause (to save the kids). She makes rash decisions and doesn't think about the consequences, but she has a good heart IMHO.

I agree with Lost in Translation. I didn't mean to make a generalized blanket-statement suggesting that all anti-AL-ers were somehow misogynist. I just haven't heard any respectful, articulate arguments until now- it's all been "What a Psycho! Someone kill her! etc."
I also agree with LiT that AL has good intentions, they've just gone crazily awry. I think she's suffered a lot, and blames herself for the loss of her baby, and is now obsessed with thoughts of duty and protection. Her rash, split-second decisions make sense now, too. She let her guard down for one second (Jason) and the consequences were enormous.
And yes, i understand the point of view that people who suffer tragedies do not have a special license to go all crazy. But if there were special licenses, I'd give one to Ana-Lucia. :)

For those who saw what the writers meant for us to see. For those who saw truth and emotional drama. For those who don't re-write and misinterpret scenes in their heads so they can hate someone that irks them, makes them jealous, threatens their ship, etc. For those with a real grasp on the idea of great creative writing and strong character developement. For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroine who after much trauma finally just snapped and had an emotional breakdown and therefore lashed out at after being betrayed and abandoned by the world, and for those who know that her throwing down the weapons was a first step at the road to emotional recovery, this thread's for you.

And for the love of God if you bash....there's dozens of threads for that. The producers need to know know that there are some people out there who actually UNDERSTAND their show and it's poignant characters. I couldn't even start a 'dear producers' thread without mindless trolls trying to outdo/undo my message. Apparently I can't even talk to the producers about her and support the character without the bs following me in there, which I think that speaks for itself. Anyway, for those who see truth and the truth of human emotion and brilliant writing of said emotion, rather than the dime a dozen 'pick and choose and unfoundedly hate' mentality, this thread is for you!

Hello Controversleigh,

Count me in.

It has probably been said here before but I even understand her dislike for Sawyer now: He reminds her of herself (or perhaps her cop boyfriend who left?). I found her identification with Sayid especially poignant as well. What a powerful scene that was. (Now I want to watch it again.)

To the writers: YOU ROCK BIGTIME.:ntworthy:

P.S. It been taking me some time, especially considering the holidays and all, but I am beginning to get a feel for my new digs here. There is so much to read through, and with the different format (from LG at ABC) it is rather time consuming! But with time I will join the ranks here at the fuse and, hopefully, become a little more productive!

She's in Fast and the Furious...just saw it this weekend. A Bitty there too. I can't wait til her and Kate match up...gee, wonder who'll win that battle?

How can anyone not love the woman? She is adorably hot and so huggable.

I also agree with LiT that AL has good intentions, they've just gone crazily awry. I think she's suffered a lot, and blames herself for the loss of her baby, and is now obsessed with thoughts of duty and protection. Her rash, split-second decisions make sense now, too. She let her guard down for one second (Jason) and the consequences were enormous.
And yes, i understand the point of view that people who suffer tragedies do not have a special license to go all crazy. But if there were special licenses, I'd give one to Ana-Lucia. :)

First, I'm not anti-AL. I, too, understand her rash, split-second decisions. Those do make sense. What I have yet to understand is the cold methodical way she hunted Jason down and killed him. I understand that losing a child is an unspeakable horror. If she had gone nuts in the police station when he was brought in and shot him there, I would have understood that. It would have been the heat of the moment. What I don't get is the premeditation, given her calling as a police officer. The two just seem to be incompatible. Really, that was my only problem with the backstory. I just can't accept that it's automatic for someone like AL to hunt down and kill her attacker with calculation because of the loss of a her child. It would have been automatic, and IMHO, very sympathetic, right or wrong, had she done it in the heat of the moment of seeing him again. For all of those who have said they would have done the same, it's not that I disagree with the sentiment. It would be natural, instinctive, to want your child's killer dead. It's the premeditation without supporting characterization that I find troublesome. If we find out later she wasn't all that dedicated to the job, but was merely trying to please her mother by her choice of profession, OK. Then it will make sense. I just think that there's a certain level of idealism involved when a young person joins the police force, which necessitates an explanation somewhere down the line.

For those who saw what the writers meant for us to see. For those who saw truth and emotional drama. For those who don't re-write and misinterpret scenes in their heads so they can hate someone that irks them, makes them jealous, threatens their ship, etc. For those with a real grasp on the idea of great creative writing and strong character developement. For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroine who after much trauma finally just snapped and had an emotional breakdown and therefore lashed out at after being betrayed and abandoned by the world, and for those who know that her throwing down the weapons was a first step at the road to emotional recovery, this thread's for you.

Wow. I'm rather stunned by the arrogance of this. So, anyone who disagrees with you:
1. Doesn't see truth and emotional drama
2. Re-writes and misinterprets scenes
3. Doesn't have a real grasp on creative writing and strong character development

Gee, I guess I'll just watch my Hillary Duff movies over here and listen to Celine Dione and miss the good old days when TV was all happy and bright and fun and filled with shows that my little old dimwitted mind can actually grasp!

I don't know if it was on this thread, but someone mentioned that Sayid shot a fellow officer. I totally forgot about that. Or chose to, due to the fact that I like him now. Or is it my feelings about world events that has made this not seem so horrible?

Anyways, it sure made me think back to what all the other lostaways have done, and how easily I have forgiven them, and/or justified it.

Just some food for thought.

I don't know, I'm sure most people will whole-heartedly justify Kat'es killing....no matter what or why....while Ana will still be "evil". :D


I don't think anyone justifies anything Kate has done, but they did see her treat everyone else on the island all right, at least fairly. (Ana's shown no conception of fairness whatsoever toward Jin, Sawyer or Michael, or toward Sayid, or even Shannon.) I did see Kate express remorse once over that death, whatever it was, and I would Ana a chance if she would show some remorse. She's shown panic and near-psychotic behavior (what was she proving with that warning shot to Michael? That she really is unfit to hold a gun?) but no actual remorse.

Look, I've trashed Ana fairly severely here on the boards. They show her in a lot of closeups mouthing off so hatefully, so it looks like she's dogtalking the audience itself (not to mention pointing guns and firing shots at them), so why would anyone be so surprised at the overwhelming negative response to her? But, even so, I *still* haven't given up on her redeeming herself. It would involve something big and her sacrificing something or another, I'll admit, but I don't thing she's beyond redemption. I don't think "I'm so bad" and another good cry can do it but I think she can redeem herself.

I don't know if it was on this thread, but someone mentioned that Sayid shot a fellow officer. I totally forgot about that. Or chose to, due to the fact that I like him now. Or is it my feelings about world events that has made this not seem so horrible?

Anyways, it sure made me think back to what all the other lostaways have done, and how easily I have forgiven them, and/or justified it.

Just some food for thought.
WIF, I think it was back a few pages but there are several murderers and killers on the island. Right now Kate seems to be the most innocent of them all. We haven't seen her kill anyone, it's just her admission that she has killed someone that puts her on the list depending on how much blame you give her in Tom's possible death. Heck if A-L can take 4 hollow point bullets through her bulletproof vest, why can' Tom survive?

For those who saw what the writers meant for us to see. For those who saw truth and emotional drama. For those who don't re-write and misinterpret scenes in their heads so they can hate someone that irks them, makes them jealous, threatens their ship, etc. For those with a real grasp on the idea of great creative writing and strong character developement. For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroine who after much trauma finally just snapped and had an emotional breakdown and therefore lashed out at after being betrayed and abandoned by the world, and for those who know that her throwing down the weapons was a first step at the road to emotional recovery, this thread's for you.

And for the love of God if you bash....there's dozens of threads for that. The producers need to know know that there are some people out there who actually UNDERSTAND their show and it's poignant characters. I couldn't even start a 'dear producers' thread without mindless trolls trying to outdo/undo my message. Apparently I can't even talk to the producers about her and support the character without the bs following me in there, which I think that speaks for itself. Anyway, for those who see truth and the truth of human emotion and brilliant writing of said emotion, rather than the dime a dozen 'pick and choose and unfoundedly hate' mentality, this thread is for you!




Ummm, the entire series is about an island full of damaged people. Is anyone on this island emotionally healthy? And if so, would we tune in?

Yeah, I love the writing - that is why I watch........ thanks.

Ummm, the entire series is about an island full of damaged people. Is anyone on this island emotionally healthy? And if so, would we tune in?
Umm Emotionally healthy, whatever that is,
Vincent
Rose
Bernard
Aaron
Libby probably
Possibly Sun now that she & Jin are reunited.
Did I hit on a character we can focus on week after week yet?

OK being biased, I could tune in to watch Sun read the phone book & be happy for at least an episode, but I agree re emotionally healthy characters and would we watch them.

Okay, so I have tons of reading to catch up on the current conversation, but I have to say that I agree with the fact that people need to stop bashing everyone. The writers know what they're doing. Just because they're not doing it the way you'd like, doesn't mean the character development is horrible.

And I also have to say, that I agree that after this past week's episode, I DO understand Ana better. I understand where she's coming from and why she acts the way she does. However, I still don't like her character...but that's just my personal opinion...it's not because I don't get her and it's not because her character has supposedly "not been developed enough," it's just because I don't like her attitude toward everything (even after knowing why she has that particular attitude).

But...that's just me...

*goes back to scrollling through this thread*

And I also have to say, that I agree that after this past week's episode, I DO understand Ana better. I understand where she's coming from and why she acts the way she does. However, I still don't like her character...but that's just my personal opinion...it's not because I don't get her and it's not because her character has supposedly "not been developed enough," it's just because I don't like her attitude toward everything (even after knowing why she has that particular attitude).

Exactly! She's clinically paranoid. She kills and puts people in harm's way unpredicatably because she can't control herself. At least with Sawyer and Kate there seems to be some consistent thought behind their wrong doings. In fact, this episode made me like Sayid even more for his ability to get through to AL.

Wow. I'm rather stunned by the arrogance of this. So, anyone who disagrees with you:
1. Doesn't see truth and emotional drama
2. Re-writes and misinterprets scenes
3. Doesn't have a real grasp on creative writing and strong character development

Gee, I guess I'll just watch my Hillary Duff movies over here and listen to Celine Dione and miss the good old days when TV was all happy and bright and fun and filled with shows that my little old dimwitted mind can actually grasp!

I am glad at least someone noticed this. It has been bugging me since I first laid eyes on this thread.

Wow. I'm rather stunned by the arrogance of this. So, anyone who disagrees with you:
1. Doesn't see truth and emotional drama
2. Re-writes and misinterprets scenes
3. Doesn't have a real grasp on creative writing and strong character development

Gee, I guess I'll just watch my Hillary Duff movies over here and listen to Celine Dione and miss the good old days when TV was all happy and bright and fun and filled with shows that my little old dimwitted mind can actually grasp!.
Arrogance? No. Not at all...for those who this applies to, and they know who they are, it is true. I never said those who disagree with me fit those discriptions (so stop putting words into my mouth, ok?)....I was referring to some people who you can say to, "Ana shot that guy for revenge." and they simply reply, "No she's a dumb biotch, that's why...she's psycho!" And things of that nature...if you can't accurately express what was shown right in fron of you b/c you hate her THAT much, then you fit into those categories. If your going to misinterpret my post then please don't comment on it, thanks. :)

If Ana hadn't listened to Eko and moved through the group through the jungle (rather than stick to her plan of following the beach) then Cindy would still be alive. Not to mention Shannon.

Ana was right. It was too dangerous. Why was Sawyer's life more valuable than Cindy's?

For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroine who after much trauma finally just snapped and had an emotional breakdown and therefore lashed out at after being betrayed and abandoned by the world, and for those who know that her throwing down the weapons was a first step at the road to emotional recovery, this thread's for you.

I think this statement is the one people are staking claim with. You say AL is all that so she is all that and anyone who disagrees with you shouldn't post in this thread so you and those who do agree can voice your opinions unchallenged over and over again?

While I would agree that AL suffered a great trauma, I would not describe her as a heroine or say she feels betrayed and abandoned by the world. She is indeed crazy in the clinical sense of the word. Was she crazy before the plane crash? It would seem so with the whole revenge thing. So what's her deal? She made a mistake that cost her baby's life and her relationship and she can't forgive herself for it so she overcompensates. She did the same thing when she decided to stay on the beach and it was the wrong choice. Her core struggle is the same as Jack's, she wants to be the hero, but can't admit her own shortcomings in order to reach the place she needs to be to be that hero.

So put that in a thread and Locke it!

(That last comment is a joke, mods. Don't warn me again.)

You got me singing This Bud's For You.. and all I drink is Diet Coke. I'm going to attempt one time to shed some light on this overblown issue.

For those who saw what the writers meant for us to see. For those who saw truth and emotional drama. For those who don't re-write and misinterpret scenes in their heads so they can hate someone that irks them, makes them jealous, threatens their ship, etc. For those with a real grasp on the idea of great creative writing and strong character developement. For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroine who after much trauma finally just snapped and had an emotional breakdown and therefore lashed out at after being betrayed and abandoned by the world, and for those who know that her throwing down the weapons was a first step at the road to emotional recovery, this thread's for you. With all the above in mind - everything mentioned - there are those of us who actually see Ana for what she is - based 100% on her actions. There are those of us who don't make excuses for what she chose to do or how she went about doing it. Some of us just look at exactly what we see and form our opinion of her based on that. In every single situation in life 2 people can see the exact same situation and both have completely different interpretations and feelings with regard to it. Neither person is right or wrong. It doesn't mean one person is more intuitive than the other nor that one person has a better grasp on things than the other. I saw what I saw. You see what you see. I dislike Ana and think she acts like a dictator based upon how I saw her treat people and that she has no regard for anyone except herself -again based on what I saw her do. You think of her as a strong heroine who lashes out because the world abandoned her (which I never saw - actually so far she's the only one I've seen with a rather caring and involved parent), and she was betrayed by someone (again all I know is Danny and her split up and she said it was for the better) and trauma - (yes losing her unborn child was traumatic, but I can't see that as justifying everything I've seen her do)
And for the love of God if you bash....there's dozens of threads for that. The producers need to know know that there are some people out there who actually UNDERSTAND their show and it's poignant characters. I couldn't even start a 'dear producers' thread without mindless trolls trying to outdo/undo my message. Apparently I can't even talk to the producers about her and support the character without the bs following me in there, which I think that speaks for itself. Anyway, for those who see truth and the truth of human emotion and brilliant writing of said emotion, rather than the dime a dozen 'pick and choose and unfoundedly hate' mentality, this thread is for you! From what you say here, the only people who UNDERSTAND the show are those that see this character exactly the same way you do. And somehow you seem to believe that they (the producers) need to know that you understand them - as though they're losing sleep by knowing there are people that strongly dislike her and that there's others that gets "it" and gets her. I totally understand that there's 2 sides to everything and there's going to be people that love characters and others that hate the same characters. But that doesn't mean that if I'm on the love the character side I'd ever think that my view was the right view and everyone that didn't agree was just plain not paying attention. Things don't work that way. There isn't one truth here. Especially when you are trying to base those truths on a scene that you are interpreting. Part of creative is seeing things in an abstract way - and so it can be seen in more than one way - and that no one way is an absolute. If we watched a scene where all we see is a black ballpoint pen on a desk - that would be an absolute. But once that pen does something - say - runs out of ink - our interpretation of that could be completely different - because we're using our creativity to assign some motivation to the pen. I could believe that it was just used and at the end of it's writing career. You could think the manufacturer screwed up and didn't put enough ink in it. And someone else could think it just dried up. It doesn't mean we understand the manufacturer or don't. It's just how we are seeing things.

Wow. I'm rather stunned by the arrogance of this. So, anyone who disagrees with you:
1. Doesn't see truth and emotional drama
2. Re-writes and misinterprets scenes
3. Doesn't have a real grasp on creative writing and strong character development
Gee, I guess I'll just watch my Hillary Duff movies over here and listen to Celine Dione and miss the good old days when TV was all happy and bright and fun and filled with shows that my little old dimwitted mind can actually grasp!
Arrogance? No. Not at all...for those who this applies to, and they know who they are, it is true. I never said those who disagree with me fit those discriptions (so stop putting words into my mouth, ok?)....I was referring to some people who you can say to, "Ana shot that guy for revenge." and they simply reply, "No she's a dumb biotch, that's why...she's psycho!" And things of that nature...if you can't accurately express what was shown right in fron of you b/c you hate her THAT much, then you fit into those categories. If your going to misinterpret my post then please don't comment on it, thanks. :)
People aren't trying to put words in anyone's mouth - but reading the words you use and how you think that everyone is misinterpreting Ana and misinterpreting you and the way you are phrasing things, does read as very arrogant - because it comes off as you and the people who "like" the character are right and those that don't like her or agree with you are not as informed and can't see the truth. Somehow you've managed to see the truth and unearth the creative intent of the writers and producers, but the rest of us just can't see it and should just sit back and let you hob nob with your contemporaries who get it and not interfere with the enlightened ones who understand.
The bottom line is that everyone sees what they see and no one is wrong or right. You can't exclude people because they don't see it your way - that is arrogant - and you can't generalize that all that agree with your viewpoint are the only ones that get it.

I posted in this thread because I felt a lot of sympathy towards Ana Lucia and felt that this episode expalined her actions. By no means am I saying that the fact that she killed Jason and Shannon is justified My interpretation of the show may not coincide with others, but I think we all need to step back and remember that this episode can bring up delicate political topics like capital punishment and that we all need to be respectful of each other's political views. I'm not posting this to cause trouble, and everyone here has been perfectly repsectful so far. I just want to keep it that way :)

If Ana hadn't listened to Eko and moved through the group through the jungle (rather than stick to her plan of following the beach) then Cindy would still be alive. Not to mention Shannon.

Ana was right. It was too dangerous. Why was Sawyer's life more valuable than Cindy's?

Interesting point, although we don't really know for sure if following the beach would've been less dangerous.

It never came to a vote, but even if Ana had pushed the issue, she might've been able to convince Cindy, Bernard (who just wanted to get back to Rose ASAP) and maybe Libby. I think Eko, Michael and Jin (who really are the only ones who could lead Ana and the rest to Jack's camp) would've refused to leave Sawyer.

Basically it was an impasse; the people Ana needed to lead her to the main camp, are the same ones who would've objected the most to leaving Sawyer. Ana never really had much leverage in that situation.

There is room on the island for two leading ladies, just like two leading men are used by the writers in the Sawyer and Jack characters. I hope people realize they sound a tad bit frightened that another female lead just might have better qualities than .......Kate...
That's one of the most bizarre comments I've seen yet since I haven't seen ANY "qualities" in Ana Lucia to date. She leads by fear and intimidation and is so self-pitying and self-involved that it's not even funny. People who don't like her fear her? Think of her as competition for Kate? Not bloody likely. At least Kate has a heart and has helped people out from the very beginning. Not insulting them and beating them down the way Ana does, even with her own people.

Originally Posted by SawyerSandwich
If Ana hadn't listened to Eko and moved through the group through the jungle (rather than stick to her plan of following the beach) then Cindy would still be alive. Not to mention Shannon.

Ana was right. It was too dangerous. Why was Sawyer's life more valuable than Cindy's?

Why is Sawyer's life worth LESS than Cindy's? This is just one more example of Ana's terrible judgment and unsuitability as a leader. In what military movie have you ever seen the leader leave a wounded man behind to just die in a jungle? It doesn't happen. People make super-human efforts to get their wounded comrades back to medical help, she didn't even stop to consider it before saying he should just be left behind. And when Cindy gets taken, she SNEERS at Eko that it's all on his head. Way to treat your lieutenant, sure. Does anyone really think this woman is ANY kind of heroine? I think she has no heart. Hell, maybe even no soul. Stone. Cold. Screw-up.

If Ana hadn't listened to Eko and moved through the group through the jungle (rather than stick to her plan of following the beach) then Cindy would still be alive. Not to mention Shannon.

Ana was right. It was too dangerous. Why was Sawyer's life more valuable than Cindy's?

And Eko knew they wouldn't be able to go by the beach - maybe they would all be dead now if they had listened to Ana.

And Eko knew they wouldn't be able to go by the beach - maybe they would all be dead now if they had listened to Ana.
Did anyone figure out another reason why he didn't want to go that way, other than it was a peninsula they would have to go around, making it further and taking more time? He gave it a long look that made me wonder if he knew of some other danger or risk with that route.

They needed to get Sawyer to medical help as quickly as possible. That and carrying him was slowing them down, leaving them at risk out in the open for longer.

I really don't see how they could have done better...without a crystal ball to foretell the future, pills to make themselves invisible, or the ability to teleport themselves quickly to the Swan hatch. The island is dangerous for many reasons and they aren't all that familiar with the territory yet. There was no quick and easy risk-free choice.

ETA: cbikle...good points!

Amen brutha....... :)

Some people only shop at Walmart, others prefer family owned boutiques. Some think Olive Garden is real Italian food. Some eat Wonder Bread and think it's bread. Some people eat Chef Boy-Ar-Dee...(which I can't even spell) Point being - there are those that simply prefer cookie cutter things/entertainment/food and don't want to be motivated to think critically. To each their own - but don't bash one way or another when someone who prefers that which we are professing, speaks out in favor of it.

Fo

For those who saw what the writers meant for us to see. For those who saw truth and emotional drama. For those who don't re-write and misinterpret scenes in their heads so they can hate someone that irks them, makes them jealous, threatens their ship, etc. For those with a real grasp on the idea of great creative writing and strong character developement. For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroine who after much trauma finally just snapped and had an emotional breakdown and therefore lashed out at after being betrayed and abandoned by the world, and for those who know that her throwing down the weapons was a first step at the road to emotional recovery, this thread's for you.

And for the love of God if you bash....there's dozens of threads for that. The producers need to know know that there are some people out there who actually UNDERSTAND their show and it's poignant characters. I couldn't even start a 'dear producers' thread without mindless trolls trying to outdo/undo my message. Apparently I can't even talk to the producers about her and support the character without the bs following me in there, which I think that speaks for itself. Anyway, for those who see truth and the truth of human emotion and brilliant writing of said emotion, rather than the dime a dozen 'pick and choose and unfoundedly hate' mentality, this thread is for you!

I think Ana is like pepper - RED pepper. She will add spice to the recipe.

Sawyer wasn't a wounded soldier. He's not exactly a team player. In fact, he wanted to leave Michael behind earlier.

We can speculate about anything, but according to what we were shown in the episode, following the beach was the safe route with more visibility, etc. Braving the jungle was the dangerous shortcut because they were likely to encounter the Others. They took the extra risk to get Sawyer to the doctor faster, even though it seemed likely that he wouldn't survive anyway under the primitive conditions. They did encounter the others. Cindy (and Shannon) paid the price for that decision.

All I'm saying is Ana was right.

"Her killing Shannon was just a plot device to get rid of Maggie, so forget that part."

That is an astute of an observation that many fans seem to overlook. They had to get rid of Shannon some way didn't they...she wanted out. So IMO the way they did it was great for the show.

Thanks to the originator of this thread and sor so amny people who enjoy the ride that this show is. Plot twists and bad people with good reasons for being bad are the very foundation that this show is built on!

Kudos to the writers for giving us so much to talk about!

I read an article today called "Shedding light on a 'Lost' villain" that may be of interest to this thread. Below is the end of the piece which I found interesting.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/250026_tv29.html

Somehow Ana Lucia is less worthy of redemption because she's the most thoroughly unredeemable of women: a tomboy, and a b****.

Then again, that's how we know her now. "Lost" is, above all, a show about revealing layers. Until now, we've had a lot of people who are pretty or enigmatic on the outside revealing the secrets within, some of them vicious and ugly. Ana Lucia flipped this around, making the challenge to Rodriguez to make us dig for some solid point of empathy. Should we watch to see whether that happens -- and we probably will -- the girl's obviously doing something right.

I read an article today called "Shedding light on a 'Lost' villain" that may be of interest to this thread. Below is the end of the piece which I found interesting.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/250026_tv29.html

Ooooh. That was good. Thanks!

Her Character will eventually be liked, just like Sawyer.

I read an article today called "Shedding light on a 'Lost' villain" that may be of interest to this thread. Below is the end of the piece which I found interesting.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/250026_tv29.html
That article says it all. Nothing more to add.

AL bashers please read it and take a break.

Her Character will eventually be liked, just like Sawyer.

I wouldn't be at all surprised.

I read an article today called "Shedding light on a 'Lost' villain" that may be of interest to this thread. Below is the end of the piece which I found interesting.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/250026_tv29.html

That article is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever read in my life...and I've read a lot of crap.

Here's a few debunking comments:

So, when Ana Lucia shot Shannon (Maggie Grace) through the gut at the end of the series' first November sweeps episode, that was, to many, the last straw. Never mind that Shannon was the least deserving of sympathy of all the previously known survivors, that the shooting was a terrible accident, and that the regret on Ana's face was immediately, torturously palpable. Ana Lucia haters merely detested her even more.

So we're not supposed to pass judgement on Ana Lucia on her actions and attitude, but it's cool to say Shannon is the least deserving of sympathy of all the previously known survivors?

Still, it makes me wonder what is it about Ana Lucia that has made her so uniquely unappealing to such a wide swath of "Lost" viewers. Interesting character studies of her abound, but the simplest theory is this: She's not cute.

Sexy, sure. Beautiful even. But not cute.


Aren't cute, sexy, and beautiful completely subjective terms? The author goes on to discuss Kate, Sun, and Claire being cute, but there is no discussion of other female characters such as Libby, Rose, or the since abducted Cindy. I wouldn't call Cindy cute, though I know others would, but I didn't hate her. Talk about omitting relevant information and creating demons where there are none.

They despise her perpetual scowl, her take-charge nature, her inability to be reasoned away from her dictatorial decisions in leading her fellow survivors from the back end of Oceanic Airlines flight 815.

Because dictatorships have proven to be effective means of governing throughout history, right guys?...Anyone?...Bueller?!


The campaign against Ana feels a bit different in that it is, at its core, impatient and a tad hypocritical. Like everyone else on the island, her past has shaped the way she's reacting to the cruel circumstances of the present. She was a trained law enforcer who, when the plane and chaos exploded around her, fell back on her training to take charge, just like Jack (Matthew Fox) did for the primary group. She saved lives and helped organize her fellow survivors. But, unlike the other group, the Tailie group was smaller and less cohesive -- prime prey for the Others, the island's disturbing residents.


Ok, first off, that end sentence is tacked on and irrelevent to a paragraph about a comparison Jack, but writing critiques aside, many people hated Jack for assuming leadership and asserting the philosophy he did. I myself think he is a poor leader and have had disdain for the choices his characters makes ever since his cliche "We have to work together or we'll all die" speech. However, as annoying as Jack may be, he stills questions his own fallibility at times and you can see his inner struggle. The only time AL stopped to listen to anyone was when Sayid was tied to a tree and at her mercy, everyone else was gone, and Nathan and Shannon died injustly. Oh, and with Jack his rise to power made sense while with the Tailies it seems like Eko would make a much better leader than AL, but he knows it would be stupid to challenge her because she is unstable.

Somehow Ana Lucia is less worthy of redemption because she's the most thoroughly unredeemable of women: a tomboy, and a bitch.

This comment has to be the most baseless of all. What makes her a tomboy, that she's a cop? Who decided that she was a tomboy? How is Kate not a tomboy with all the action hero like events she has been through?

I'm sorry. The author of that article can't see past her own bias long enough for me to take her commentary seriously. She decided to like AL before she was AL simply because of her appearance.

There's people like the author on one extreme, people who form the hate clubs on the other, and then a bunch of people in the middle who raise legitimate concerns about AL's charactey...and those in the middle are being forced to take sides in the battle because those on the author's side don't believe the hate clubs have a right to exist. Hmm, sounds a lot like the current American political climate, doesn't it?

I agree 100% with Jayemel. I commented on this article on another thread but you said it better than I did. I'm really tired of people saying I don't like Ana Lucia because she's a woman in charge. I'll have to check for some articles where the author doesn't allow their own biases into their writing (or is at least honest when it comes to their bias).

I think there are many people who judged her not because of her character on the show, but because they aren't crazy about the actress. My husband is one of those people and it really colors how he sees her on the show. It's a bit unfair.

I've given up trying to understand the way my husband brain works.

Oh, most definitely . . . poor man.
Then again, I don't get me either?
I'm trying to keep an open mind about Ana Lucia (but don't tell my husband).

Jeesh...I would think that most men would find her very attractive. Maybe they feel threatened by her? She doesn't come across as being very submissive.

I'm a man and I don't feel either attracted to her or threatened. I don't like her personality, the way she treats others, and I don't like the decisions she makes...

AL is totally my "exhusbands" type. He did marry me after all. Bossy, controlling, frowning and HUMAN.

notlost & stircrazy: Funny! :D Btw, I haven't seen any of MR's other work yet.

RaceTheSun...just to clarify...my comment was about MR, not about Ana-Lucia. It just seemed to me that MR would be considered attractive by many. Sorry if that offended you.:)

I think it's kinda funny the way that a character is beloved or attacked almost instantally -- I mean people were up in arms before we ever saw her flashback

I think it's kinda funny the way that a character is beloved or attacked almost instantally -- I mean people were up in arms before we ever saw her flashback

Not sure why, but sometimes people just have visceral reactions to how an actor portrays a character.

With me, it's Sam Waterston's character from Law & Order. On the show he plays a very zealous prosecuting attorney. Whenever he loses or thinks he will, he gripes and complains about "justice (and/or the law) not being served", but is not above twisting the law and coercing/threatening to get a conviction.

On the surface, Waterston's character seems complex and interesting and Sam is a very good actor, but something in how his character's penchant for standing on a soapbox while simultaneously doggedly persuing a conviction (sometimes, deliberately against the wrong person, just to "force" the real culprit to confess so that a loved one won't be convicted) just irks me.

That's really true about Waterston. I've seen him in tons of stuff and he always preaches! I'd never thought about it before.

What could I possibly say other than, I agree.

At first I have to admit she annoyed the hell outta me, the way she was with sawyer, jin and mike. But once you see what really makes her tick, her need to protect those shes come to care about, and feel loyalty in return, shes no different than any of us.

Shes just a little misguided, acts first thinks later, which I'm sure will be resolved somehow by Locke as it usually is.

I feel compassion towards her, but she is so harsh that I don't really like her. I understand why she is so brusque but I don't really like it.

I feel compassion towards her, but she is so harsh that I don't really like her. I understand why she is so brusque but I don't really like it.

Totally.
BTW your baby is SOOO cute!

Oh, and with Jack his rise to power made sense while with the Tailies it seems like Eko would make a much better leader than AL, but he knows it would be stupid to challenge her because she is unstable.


I was watching Orientation, and it occured to me, people describe AL as paranoid and neurotic, that she may be, but hey, no more than anybody else on that island. She has the right to be considering what she's gone through personally and recently on that island.

Another thing I feel I have to mention :D, when it came to that button, Jack was almost as annoying as AL. You know, you can't judge a character from the surface alone, you have to think about what makes that character like that from within his/herself. Jack obviously has a problem believing. You could put him on the line with Scully when she first started out with Mulder...except Scully was a tad more likeable, but I digress, they both had a problem with believing and with faith. And that's something Scully worked over, and I'm sure Jack will work over as well. Deep down, he wants to believe.

It occured to me that Eko would make a better leader than AL, and I wondered why it hadn't been that way in the beginning. So I figured this, AL's got a big mouth, she's a cop, she likes to be in control. Mr Eko is already in control in his own way, and he has a relationship with AL which I think sort of keeps her anchored. He' s the only one who halfway understands her, which is why he hasn't challenged her outright, other than excerising his mastery of sanity when Al does otherwise. He doesn't need to challenge her. He's bigger than her, he could wing her back to LA if he wanted, lol.

My two cents. :D

It occured to me that Eko would make a better leader than AL, and I wondered why it hadn't been that way in the beginning. So I figured this, AL's got a big mouth, she's a cop, she likes to be in control. Mr Eko is already in control in his own way, and he has a relationship with AL which I think sort of keeps her anchored. He' s the only one who halfway understands her, which is why he hasn't challenged her outright, other than excerising his mastery of sanity when Al does otherwise. He doesn't need to challenge her. He's bigger than her, he could wing her back to LA if he wanted, lol.

My two cents. :D

I agree, although I hadn't really thought about it. Eko would be a much better choice for leader. Also, people would probably look to him just because of his physicality. I wonder why it wasn't like that. Having a big mouth usually causes people to reject you, not embrace you.

The only thing with Eko is that he puts his religious beliefs first. If he was selected as the original leader, the talies would have been wandering around for the first 40 days with Eko ignoring them while he maintained his silence. To her credit, Ana really had the intention of trying to protect the tailies as best as she could.

The only thing with Eko is that he puts his religious beliefs first. If he was selected as the original leader, the talies would have been wandering around for the first 40 days with Eko ignoring them while he maintained his silence. To her credit, Ana really had the intention of trying to protect the tailies as best as she could.

But maybe he wouldn't have had to be silent for 40 Days, perhaps if he had set things up, they wouldn't have been ambushed and he wouldn't have had to kill those people.

But maybe he wouldn't have had to be silent for 40 Days, perhaps if he had set things up, they wouldn't have been ambushed and he wouldn't have had to kill those people.

I don't see how Eko being the leader could possibly have prevented that. I don't think anything could have been done differently that first night.

How could Eko have "set things up"? What "things" could he have set if he was completely ignorant to what was about to happen? I don't think he is a type of Medium who can see into the future and predict what is about to happen. How is he capable of setting "things up"???

How could Eko have "set things up"? What "things" could he have set if he was completely ignorant to what was about to happen? I don't think he is a type of Medium who can see into the future and predict what is about to happen. How is he capable of setting "things up"???

Perhaps as a leader he would have had different people on watch -- instead of himself --and therefore other people would have been on watch -- rather than just him--
Boy what's with the attack? Just discussing an idea.

That is what I am doing....discussing...not attacking. If you preceived it as that, I am sorry. I was just wondering how he could have done it without speaking.

For those who saw what the writers meant for us to see. For those who saw truth and emotional drama. For those who don't re-write and misinterpret scenes in their heads so they can hate someone that irks them, makes them jealous, threatens their ship, etc. For those with a real grasp on the idea of great creative writing and strong character developement. For those who actually see Ana for what she is....a strong heroine who after much trauma finally just snapped and had an emotional breakdown and therefore lashed out at after being betrayed and abandoned by the world, and for those who know that her throwing down the weapons was a first step at the road to emotional recovery, this thread's for you.

And for the love of God if you bash....there's dozens of threads for that. The producers need to know know that there are some people out there who actually UNDERSTAND their show and it's poignant characters. I couldn't even start a 'dear producers' thread without mindless trolls trying to outdo/undo my message. Apparently I can't even talk to the producers about her and support the character without the bs following me in there, which I think that speaks for itself. Anyway, for those who see truth and the truth of human emotion and brilliant writing of said emotion, rather than the dime a dozen 'pick and choose and unfoundedly hate' mentality, this thread is for you!

Thank Goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I'm sayin :) Before I finish reading this thread, I just had to say it!
While it is everyone's perogotive to like or dislike someone's character traits, some of the Hateful things I was reading about this character, and then somehow by extention, the actual actress, was just bigoted and unfounded, and really says something about society today, it's kinda sad, we're supposed to be so civilized yet some of the comments I have read are shameful.

And how come everyone is so quick to condemn Ana for what she has done, and not Sayid for what he Must have done in his military carreer?

I had no problem with her characters toughness from the beginning, and after seeing Ana's backstory and learning someone killed her kid, and that mom is a cop, etc., it all came together for me, and also reminded me of the comment about "not trying to make much sense of the actions of a mother who has lost a child."

Thank Goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I'm sayin :) Before I finish reading this thread, I just had to say it!
While it is everyone's perogotive to like or dislike someone's character traits, some of the Hateful things I was reading about this character, and then somehow by extention, the actual actress, was just bigoted and unfounded, and really says something about society today, it's kinda sad, we're supposed to be so civilized yet some of the comments I have read are shameful.

And how come everyone is so quick to condemn Ana for what she has done, and not Sayid for what he Must have done in his military carreer?


I had no problem with her characters toughness from the beginning, and after seeing Ana's backstory and learning someone killed her kid, and that mom is a cop, etc., it all came together for me, and also reminded me of the comment about "not trying to make much sense of the actions of a mother who has lost a child."

I didn't get all the hating at first either. It would be one thign if people disliked her, but they all-out despised her...I couldn't understand it.

I had seen all the Ana-hatred going on before she even showed up, so I resolved not to make judgements on her too quickly. I remained neutral until "Abandoned" ( I never really had a problem with her in the first few episodes. I was just kind of...passive) when I decided I liked her. After "The Other 48 Days" I decided I REALLY liked her. And after "Collision" I adored her.
:ana-lucia

Hey...I never noticed the tie-in thingie there. "Don't try to apply reason to her actions...she's a mother who lost a child..." Heh. Cool.

And notlost, justexploring, I wasn't trying to attack you, if you're talking to me.Stupid inability to express tone and emotion over internet...

I think maybe the reason that people are so quick to judge and to hate Ana is because she is such a real character. I think people connect with the characters because they aren't the typical cardboard, flat tv characters. They have a truth and deminsion to them -- so people react to them like real people -- and let's face it -- the world is FILLEd with people who judge quickly.

iamicurus -- sorry for the quick reaction -- Happy New Years and all

I think maybe the reason that people are so quick to judge and to hate Ana is because she is such a real character. I think people connect with the characters because they aren't the typical cardboard, flat tv characters. They have a truth and deminsion to them -- so people react to them like real people -- and let's face it -- the world is FILLEd with people who judge quickly.

iamicurus -- sorry for the quick reaction -- Happy New Years and all

It is also possible that many people (females included) are uncomfortable with Ana-Lucia because she doesn't adhere to society's belief of how a woman should act. Yes, a woman can be strong-willed, but I suspect that many believe that she should not be an assertive leader. Society demands that women - whether in real life or in fiction - should be subservient to men. They might feel that it's okay for women to be strong, but not in such an overt manner. I suspect that society prefers that women be more passive and also be subtle and possibly manipulative in getting their way.

I agree 100% with Jayemel. I commented on this article on another thread but you said it better than I did. I'm really tired of people saying I don't like Ana Lucia because she's a woman in charge. I'll have to check for some articles where the author doesn't allow their own biases into their writing (or is at least honest when it comes to their bias).

I think that the writer, Melanie McFarland, may have exposed why so many fans dislike the Ana-Lucia character. And I also think that many fans have ridiculed or dismissed Ms. McFarland or the article, because they don't like being exposed.

It occured to me that Eko would make a better leader than AL, and I wondered why it hadn't been that way in the beginning. So I figured this, AL's got a big mouth, she's a cop, she likes to be in control.

How do you know that? How do you know that Eko would have made a better leader? Would he have figured it out that Goodwin was a spy for the Others? Would he have made the sensible suggestion to leave the beach in order to avoid further attacks from the Others?

The answer to these questions is that we don't know. Deep down, we really do not know what kind of leader for the Tailies that Eko would have made during those first 48 days. Yes, he can be astute and wise. But this is the same guy who had peevishly refused to tell Jack about the circumstances surrounding Shannon's death, until it was almost too late. And this is the guy who had flipped out and refused to talk for 40 days after killing two people in self-defense. It's amazing that Ana-Lucia was criticized for flipping out after she had accidentally killed Shannon, yet everyone understands why Eko had reacted the way he did after the death of those two Others.

I'm not stating that Eko would have made a lousy leader. What I'm trying to point out is that we don't know what kind of leader he would have made during those first 48 days. We'll probably never know. And up to her shooting of Shannon, Ana-Lucia must have been satisfying the other Tailies as a leader. Or else they would have turned their backs on her, not long after the crash. They certainly weren't hesitant about opposing some of her decisions - regardless of whether she was right or wrong.

I'm not saying that Eko would have made a better leader, I am only specualting that because he was a different person, things may have occured differently. I was trying to communicate the idea that anything is really possible -- especially on the island. People were assuming that without Ana Lucia things would've happened just the same. Maybe but maybe not.
My husband doesn't like Ana Lucia because he doesn't like the actress that plays her. I didn't really have an opinion about her and was surprised to find so Many people agreeing with my husband on the 'Lage. I mentioned elsewhere that it was surprising how quickly people formed opinions.
I also think it might have to do not with her strong leadership, but with the harshness with which she leads. After her flashback you understand that she is deeply wounded person and that she has reasons for being so harsh, but they might find her style difficult.
I also think the Tallies stuck with her because together was better than alone. I mean did they really have any other option?

also think it might have to do not with her strong leadership, but with the harshness with which she leads.

Ana-Lucia's leadership didn't become harsh, until after 12 other Tail Section survivors (including two children) had been snatched by the Others and she became suspicious of Nathan. And it really became harsh, after she realized that Goodwin had been a spy for the Others. Her harshness had sprung from the Tailers' past encounters with the Others . . . and her paranoia, which was a result of their experiences.

Would Eko or any other castaway have responded the same as Ana-Lucia? I don't know. I don't even know how Jack would have responded if he had been with the Tailers. However, I do know that Jack has made his own mistakes in leadership of the Fusies, and that he sometimes came off as self-righteous, rash and judgmental.

No one on that island is perfect. In fact, just about most of the characters are pretty screwed up. But I get the feeling that while the imperfections of the other Lostaways are tolerated, Ana-Lucia's are not. Why? I don't know. I personally suspect that sexism has played a large part in this lack of tolerance toward her, because many feel that as a woman, she has no business being occasionally ruthless or even a leader. However, I might be wrong.

I think maybe the reason that people are so quick to judge and to hate Ana is because she is such a real character. I think people connect with the characters because they aren't the typical cardboard, flat tv characters. They have a truth and deminsion to them -- so people react to them like real people -- and let's face it -- the world is FILLEd with people who judge quickly.

Actually for me, she's one of the biggest cardboard cutouts and least realistic characters on the show, especially the back story.

It is also possible that many people (females included) are uncomfortable with Ana-Lucia because she doesn't adhere to society's belief of how a woman should act. Yes, a woman can be strong-willed, but I suspect that many believe that she should not be an assertive leader. Society demands that women - whether in real life or in fiction - should be subservient to men. They might feel that it's okay for women to be strong, but not in such an overt manner. I suspect that society prefers that women be more passive and also be subtle and possibly manipulative in getting their way.

I think that the writer, Melanie McFarland, may have exposed why so many fans dislike the Ana-Lucia character. And I also think that many fans have ridiculed or dismissed Ms. McFarland or the article, because they don't like being expose

Actually that's completely wrong and I think you'd find if you actually read or heard the majority of people who don't like Ana Lucia, you wouldn't be so quick to assume that's our reasoning for disliking her. Those who say we just don't like her because she's a woman and they shouldn't be leaders seem to be those who just don't really understand why we really don't like her and are reaching for reasons to explain it. I am all for strong, independent, and courageous women. I just don't happen to think that Ana Lucia is one. I think she is actually very weak, makes a lot of stupid decisions which if she wants to be a leader is very dangerous, is used to getting her own way, doesn't treat people with any respect, and I don't think she's believable at all as a police officer (they really did a bad job researching it for her background if they even did at all).

I wouldn't mind being "exposed" so to speak if she covered the real reason that people dislike her. I haven't read the article in awhile since my comment on it and don't really have the desire to look it up again but the author is exactly like how I mentioned above. She obviously likes Ana Lucia so she's pulling reasons for why people don't out of nowhere. She's assuming to know when in reality she doesn't and instead is using her own idea of stereotypes that might be true but in many of our cases is not. I'm sure there are some that dislike Ana Lucia for reasons both you and the author said but the point is most that I've encountered both online and in real life do NOT think that way. We think her article is BS because it's filled with her own biases and has no proof behind anything she says.

- Whether Ana-Lucia is female, male or a cross-dressing fricking Martian
eunuch is irrelevant! Her moral choices and behaviors show her to be weak
in character and morally corrupt as a human being.

- Back in civilization, when her interests no longer coincided with the laws governing
social order, she tossed them away completely. In fact, we were clearly shown
that she derailed the legal process that would have punished Jason by refusing to
identify him so the case against him could move forward. She threw out morality
altogether and executed Jason herself in cold blood. She fired six bullets into him
without even flinching.

- On the island, she again surrendered her humanity and codes of civilized behavior.

She imprisoned and starved Nathan, was prepared to torture him.
She bullied Jin, Michael and Sawyer even AFTER she knew they were just crash survivors. Her authoritarian attitude and aggressiveness doesn't come from strength, it comes from weakness, from the need to assert authority over other people indiscriminately just because you can, i.e. because you have the power or the gun.
She did NOT show good leadership traits since a good leader would have sought cooperation from the Fusies, not ordered them around, especially in light of the fact they were leading her and her group to greater safety in the bigger camp. Even after her group and the Fusies had joined together, she maintained a primitive, tribal view of her group and theirs.
She was prepared to abandon an unconsious Sawyer in the jungle, without any sign of regret, which is just barbaric. We're meant to see that as abhorent since they took the trouble to show us that EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON PRESENT disagreed with her decision. They've all been through the trauma of the crash, On top of that, the Tailies have been attacked by "the Others" on land, and Michael, Jin and Sawyer were attacked on the raft, with Michael's own son being snatched right away from them. Despite that, none of the others have abandoned their humanity, or their ability to do the "right thing". Ana doesn't even seem to know there IS a right thing any more.
After shooting Shannon, her response was to take EVERYONE hostage till she could figure out how to get herself out of the jam she'd gotten into. That was a totally feral response, completely centered on herself. And again, her interests put Sawyer's life at risk, despite the protest of the other members of the group.In sum, what we were shown was a person who quickly throws out any rule book, any code, any guideline for civilized behavior when it conflicts with her personal interest. We've seen that she is capable of reverting to a primitive code of conduct under circumstances where others are not tempted to do so. There's no way Eko, or any of the others would have stood for just leaving Sawyer behind. Does anyone doubt that Ana was fully capable of simply walking away and leaving him there? I don't, since that would have been in keeping with everything else we were being shown about her.

I don't find anything to admire about the way Ana-Lucia handled herself in those first 48 days. My reasons have NOTHING to do with her gender, her race, or who the hell she might flirt with/get involved with. I'd really appreciate it if Ana fans would stop telling me they know what I think better than I do!

We can point to all her painful experiences, and to the stress of being on the island, and use those to "explain" how she got to the point she did. However, the others also went through equally painful experiences, notably Michael, who had Walt literally pulled from his arms only days before, and NONE OF THEM allowed themselves to sink to the same level of savagery as Ana-Lucia. That's the key difference. That's what we've learned about what's inside this character.

Played by a different actress, I could find the character fascinating. Unfortunately, I didn't get any of the emotional nuance from the character that would have drawn me. On the contrary, I found the crying scene so forced that I was pulled out of the story in embarrassment for the actress, and was so impatient with the one-note performance after this episode that I really wished I wouldn't have to see her again. I hardly think that's the effect they were going for.

But this is a pro-Ana thread.:)

It's in the regular episode section not the only pro-Ana section. That to me, means it's open to debate.

Wonderfully put Dezdemona.

gee whiz
people are getting a little tense in her
the beauty of the 'lage is the freedom to debate and speculate

It's sad that apparently there aren't enough "I hate Ana threads" on the fuselage, so people have to seek out more places to share their "hate". How can people spend so much time theorizing, debating, hypothesizing, analyzing someone or something they "hate" so much? You must be exhausted.

The increasing usage of the words "evil" and "hate" on the 'lage have made me sad and literally sick to my stomach. Why not just avoid that which disgusts you so much?

Was that off topic? oooops. I GET her.... hmmm..... Yeah pretty vague.

I totally get the character and feel disgusted by the judgement and visceral hatred of a FICTIONAL character by some people on this board. She's been through more than I can ever imagine going through even if it stopped at being shot 4 times and losing my baby. Compounded with the crash, the decimation of her crew, including 2 children, by the "others", and Goodwin's betrayal I feel that she was justifiably paranoid when 3 men show up that she has never seen. Expecting her to be nice to them off the bat is absolutely unreasonable. Seeking cooperation from them when she still fears they are "others" trying to trick her would be asinine.
Killing Shannon was an accident caused by her fear. If you were in a jungle and heard creepy whispering you'd shoot first and ask questions later wouldn't you? Now she has to face a new group of people who she fears will hate her for it. She's understandably defensive. She doesn't trust any of them, rightly so given her experience on the island.
What some would call "feral" or "uncivilized" can also be interpreted as justifiably paranoid and terrorized. It all depends on who the interpretor is I guess. The only thing I know for sure is that almost every character on the show is flawed.
Oh yeah....and did I mention they were fictional? It seems to me that for the judgemental people on this board, they would be better served to save their animosity for child molesters, gang bangers, serial killers, and other rather creepy people who actually EXIST. Fictional characters, bad are good, are to be enjoyed.

Confession here... so I felt pretty passionately negative about both AL and Shannon (Boone bugged me too) until their back stories were revealed.

But... I can still see how their characters are weak and flawed even while feeling compassion. That's what makes me hang in there with the show and root for Sayid when he really gives his heart to Shannon who is obviously flawed. And then I pee all over the floor when she gets shot. And think for weeks I thnk, "gee, I wonder what Shannon would be like now? Would she team up with Michael and search for Walt? Would Michael & Sayid form this bond and become kick hiney commandos knocking down trees & stuff?"

I'm rambling. But I am committed to the characters and I trust the creators of the show.

And I am waiting to see the dark sides of Jack and Hurley.

(Did you hear that Damon? We are on a first name basis, right?)