Long Lost List - What Kate did Episode 2:09 [Archive] - { Flicks N Shows | Fringe Division | Red Panda Resources

waltisfuture

11-30-2005, 09:04 PM

For a little change of pace, and hopefully to motivate more involvement by posters, I brought over Kates bio from the LLL. Enjoy!!

Kate Ryan/Kate Austin played by: Evangeline Lilly
Flashback episodes: Tabula Rasa, Whatever the Case May Be, Born to Run, Exodus: Part 1

Reason for trip: Extradition to the United States; was a fugitive in Australia.

Origin of name: Unknown, although "Kate Ryan" may be derived from "Klondike Kate Ryan," a famous Canadian frontierswoman

Aliases: Kate Ryan, Maggie, Annie, Joan Heart, Kate Jansen (?)

Profession: Unknown

The cryptic Kate is not quite the innocent figure she initially seems to be. Although the details of her original crime are unclear, Kate has now admitted to the other survivors that she is a fugitive from justice. Prior to the flight, Kate was involved in an elaborate bank robbery in New Mexico, in which she presented herself to the bank manager as an innocent bystander, while she was actually romantically linked with the bank robbers' supposed leader. Posing as a "Maggie Ryan" applying for a loan, Kate was rounded up by the robbers as one of the hostages.

When another hostage overpowered a robber, Kate grabbed one of their guns, but she immediately claimed not to be able to use it. The lead robber then took Kate into a back room, and after a quick kiss, hit her to continue the ruse. The robber brought in the bank manager and claimed he would kill the seemingly innocent Kate, unless the vault were opened. Thinking he was saving her life, the bank manager complied. In the vault, the robber revealed that Kate had actually planned and organized the whole operation. Appearing intent on shooting the manager, the robber was stopped by Kate, who instead shot the leader in the leg, then forced the manager to open a safety-deposit box. Inside was a single item: a small toy airplane.

Sometime later, Kate turned up in Australia as a fugitive. Using the name Annie and claiming to be Canadian, she arrived at the house of an Outback farmer, who, in exchange for help around his farm, offered her a wage and a home. Months later, in the middle of the night Kate attempted to sneak out of the house. The farmer caught her and insisted he drive her to the train station the next morning.

On the road, their truck was followed by a US Marshal. The farmer had seen Kate's picture on a wanted poster at the post office and turned her in for the cash reward. Kate grabbed the wheel and drove off the road, rolling the truck. Despite being free to escape, Kate pulled the injured farmer away from the wreck, giving the Marshal time to capture her.

On board Flight 815, she was in handcuffs, sitting next to the Marshal. Just prior to the crash, she asked the Marshal a favor, which she later claimed was to make sure the farmer receives the reward for turning her in. As the plane began to break apart, the Marshal was injured. Kate stole the keys to her handcuffs, but made sure to apply the Marshal's oxygen mask before putting on her own.

Although initially claiming that she was from Canada, in Born to Run, it is revealed that she actually grew up in Iowa. When she recived a letter that her mother, Diane Jansen, was dying from cancer, Kate took a chance and went home. There she met and reignited the romance with her childhood boyfriend Tom Brennan, now married and a doctor at the hospital. The two dug up a time capsule they had buried 15 years earlier, which revealed a tape recording and a selection of Tom's toys, including the little airplane. Kate also convinced Tom to arrange a visit with her mother, who was being guarded, apparently in case of her daughter's appearance. However, once Kate revealed herself to her mother, Diane began screaming for help, and Kate was forced to flee. She asked Tom for his car keys, but he demanded to go with her, saying that the police would be easy on her if she co-operated. Kate sped through the parking garage, direcly at a police car blockading the entrance, but an officer fired off a few shots as she passed, and then crashed into another car. Kate turned to Tom and saw that he was either dead or unconscious. She runs away, leaving behind Tom's toy plane - which she later retrieves from the safety deposit box during the bank robbery.

Kate has seemingly led a life of deception: In Born to Run, Kate travelled around the country with a car trunk full of license plates from various States, and she used hair dye to disguise her appearance. When Sawyer dumped out the contents of her backpack, she was carrying the passport of the dead Joanna, presumably to use for future false identification.

Since arriving on the island, Kate has been involved with most of the major developments that have occurred to the survivors, from the recovery of the transceiver, to the discovery of the repeating transmission, the polar bear, the cave-in, the decision to move to the caves, the hunt for Ethan, and the final confrontation with him. This is due in no small part to her friendship with Sayid, Charlie, and Hurley, as well as her seeming infatuation with both Jack and Sawyer, although her relationship to Jack has suffered because of her continued manipulation and equivocation. Kate delivered Claire's baby boy (Aaron) in the middle of the jungle, while Jack was trying to save Boone's life.

She revealed to Sawyer that she was married previously.
http://www.answers.com/topic/characters-of-lost

-Kate tells Jack she is a vegetarian in (WALK)

-Jack hints at Kate's tendencies to want to roam by his comment in (WALK) : "If I didn't know any better, I'd say you have a problem staying in one place for very long, Kate." This comment was made when Kate tells Jack she is going with Locke to hunt boar, and try to help Sayid by placing his antenna in a tree to try and triangulate the source of the French transmission.

-Kate tells Claire she is a Gemini. (WR)
Traditional
Gemini traits

Adaptable and versatile
Communicative and witty
Intellectual and eloquent
Youthful and lively

On the dark side....

Nervous and tense
Superficial and inconsistent
Cunning and inquisitive

waltisfuture

11-30-2005, 09:05 PM

More insight to Kate is given during Season 2. In (ADRIFT), Desmond has demanded that Locke tie Kate up and put her in a room.

Some observations from the episode are:
*Desmond says to Kate, "You be a good girl" This makes Kate uncomfortable. In a way that appears she's heard those words before in another bad situation.
*Also she looked very upset that Locke was locking her in a closet. Fear of being shut in? Could be her fear of being caught and confined doesn't sit well with her.

1:22 BORN TO RUN Flashback Cast & Summary]
Tom Brennan (Brennen?)
- Relationship: Kate's childhood love, the man she killed
- Played by: MacKenzie Astin
- Notes:
- Worked at a hospital in Iowa near Cedar Rapids, apparently in radiology, may have been a doctor. His office was near the MRI machine.
- Married to Rachel, who was visiting her mother.
- Son Connor will be 22 months next week.
- Tom is shot by the State Trooper when Kate flees the hospital, he refused to leave her and tried to convince her to turn herself in.
- Drives a BMW.
- The toy plane belonged to Tom, he got it when he flew to Dallas alone as a child.

Fascinating Other Facts: MacKenszie is a former roommate of Dominic Monaghan. Sean Astin (Sam Gamgee in Lord of the Rings) is his brother.

Diana Jansen / Jensen
- Relationship: Kate's mother
- Played by: Beth Broderick
- Notes: Very sick with cancer, is afraid of Kate and calls for help when she sees her.

car88win

11-30-2005, 09:06 PM

Awesome idea WIF! That's a perfect thing to do from now on. Your so on the ball!

flora

12-01-2005, 12:58 AM

Thank goodness this is already up!!!! Yay!!! However it was the very last thread on the very last page of this epi. Booooooo!

Okay...I've got three minutes left before the show starts. Woo-hoo! I'm going to take notes "live" again 'cause it's so fun!

flora

12-01-2005, 01:06 AM

1. Fire on beach. Seen that before...wonder why no one's told them to put those out in case the sea pirates use it as a beacon. ;)

2. Jin looking all tossled. Aw.
Sun looking happy.
(Why did they use the tent out there in front of everyone? Sayid really should tell them about the Love Shack, unless of course Rose and Bernard are using that.)

3. Another thumbs up by Hurley (a la to Walt when first boarding the plane)

4. Sayid digging grave with large piece of wood.

5. Sawyer asked for Kate...Jack says she'd been watching over him for the past 24 hours.

6. "I love her"...d'oh!

7. Kate in a tree (looks like WTCMB beginning)
Gee...she must be tired...dropping fruit, sighing like that.

8. Oh lookie, it's the Black Stallion! I'm going to hereby call Kate

9. Country song as "dad" pulls up. Gee, he looks like the marshal. Song mentions "Alabama" and "Montana" but I don't know what it is.

Is Kate supposed to be a teenager? White shirt, jeans.

What a sleaze...that father figure...

Kate hops on moto and seems to contemplate.

All the lights in the house are on.

Okay...now all the lights in the house are REALLY on...quite brightly too...oh, that's a fire. Silly me. (J/K)

flora

12-01-2005, 01:15 AM

Another country music song playing when Kate gets to the diner.

Kate says she is 24 when her mom asks for Id when she wants a beer. (If this is her 'original crime' that would push Kate into her late twenties/early thirties...which makes sense if she's supposed to be the same age as Tom, the doctor, who obviously had to go to Med school, residency, ect.)

Kate's mom obviously tries to lie about injuries on her arm (?) and Kate stops her- "Don't..."

Kate's mom: I made my bed.
Kate: You're bed is no longer there.

Just remember that you were here and didn't see me.-Kate
Katherine, what did you do?- Mom
I took care of you, Mom.

Jack-Kate convo.

Mr. Eko walks up to A-L.
Hey.
I'm going to go to the funeral.
I don't think I'm going to make it.
I think most of them realize it was an accident.
A-L says nothing...what is she burying? That stick looks an awful lot like Mr. Eko's staff.

Sayid in grey polo shirt? What's up with that? Where did that come from?

"Shannon and I were strangers. We would never have met were it... We would never have spoken. But we did meet. We did speak. At least... (Locke smiles slightly)...I loved her. "
Sayid cries. Funny, he was a bit more together at Boone's funeral. (Sarcasm)

Jack adds dirt to her- "May she rest in peace".
Next, Locke, then Sun and Claire.

Kate turns on music...it's cheezy country music and she seems pleased about it!

Kate says Sawyer should enjoy being fed by her (like a baby).
Says she saw a horse- "That's what you get when you don't sleep."

"You killed me. Why did you kill me!!!!!" Says Sawyer as he tries to choke (grab by neck) Kate...suddenly sitting up slightly and looking wide-awake.

flora

12-01-2005, 01:25 AM

Alarm going off...

image of record player...end of record...repeating.

Sawyer on the floor.

Locke struggles to push in the numbers...22? He knows what they are by now! No excuses for mistyping, Lockey-baby!

Charlie catches up to Kate.
"You missed Shannon's funeral. A couple of them came, not her..."

"Seen polar bears, seen monsters...well, heard monsters." Charlie to Kate when she asks him if she thinks horses are on the island.

Marshal behind Kate in line buying tickets to Tallahassee. Agent "on the phone".

"Kate Austen, you're [?]for murder...Your mama gave you up, Kate."

Charlie by signal fire. Tells Jack he saw Kate and she asks about horses. Jack takes off...looking kinda peeved.

Jin..smiling Jin! What a cutie! Locke, Jin, and Michael are in the hatch. And Eko.

Michael asks about blast doors. No one else had noticed before.

Locke says Desmond didn't say anything, but he did leave a movie. Eko says he would like to see the movie also. Locke says "The more the merrier"

What happened in the hatch, Kate? Why did you leave? I found Sawyer on the floor...
Is he okay?

"I'm sorry that I am not as good as you." Kate to Jack.

Kate breaks down and cries. (yup, lack of sleep will do that too)

Kate goes in for "the kiss"- not Jack! Whoa...and it's quite passionate...and Jack is into it! (Kinda a mood killer just having heard Sawyer say he loves her.)

Kate runs off...Jack calls after her.

flora

12-01-2005, 01:40 AM

The guys are watching the orientation film.

Alright...so you've been pushing that button every two hours ever since you got here? Michael to Locke,.

All I heard [?] about electromagnets... Michael.

What do you think? about the film? what do you think? Locke to Eko who was sitting there silently. Eko stands up and still says nothing.

Kate at Shannon's grave with Sayid.

Sorry I missed it...the funeral...I had to be with Sawyer so... (looks out to the waves, looking distant in that patented Kate way.)

Do you believe in ghosts, Sayid?
I saw Walt in the jungle just before Shannon was shot. Does that make me crazy?

They have quite the little cemetery going now. Lots of crosses.

Marshal and Kate going to the arraignment (sp?) asks if she is comfortable because it's a long drive.

Marshal asks why... says Kate got straight A's, kept her nose clean except for a few speeding tickets. Calls her mom "white trash"/divorced Kate's father/marries a drunk...

Why now? WHy after all these years did you decide to blow [?] up?
Did he knock on your door late at night?
He never touched me.

Another car wreck with the Marshal? Seems to be a trend.

They struggle. She kicks him out of the car, leaves him there. Sees the Black Stallion. Oh yeah, I was going to call Kate "Alec" now but I didn't finish typing.

Michael asks why Locke can't just type in the numbers at any time but he shows him that you cannot type anything until the alarm starts to go off. He then asks if he can look at the computer equipment. Locke says "don't break it"

Eko has something for Locke. I have something

Long before Christ... begins Eko. Judah, idolatry, ect.
Gee, you're really going back to the beginning.

Eko tells story of Josiah and the temple.
Asks Locke if he knows this story (after he paused after "i found a book"- Josiah to the sec'y)
Eko explains that he found the Bible in another hatch.
I believe what's inside there will be of great value to you.- E to L

Locke looks skeptical...like he's being preached to, but he opens up and discovers that the Bible was hollowed out and contains a film- with Marvin Candle, what do you know!

flora

12-01-2005, 01:55 AM

Ax chopping palm wood. It's Jack.

"Hey" says Hurley, approaching.

So, Rose's husband's white. Didn't see that coming.

So, who's taking care of Sawyer?
Sun is.
What, are you mad at him?
Hurley explains that Sawyer always used to come there to chop wood and now there's Jack chopping wood. He calls it transference- a term he picked up in the mental hospital.

Sun asks Kate to watch Sawyer when she stops by to check on him. (She still hasn't gotten any sleep!!!)

Kate walks into an Army recruiting office. Walks up to the desk of Sgt. Sam Austin.

Sits down. Hi, dad.
The police and US marshals are looking for you. You shouldn't be here.

Kate says she waited outside for two hours and they're not watching.

Kate says she was making a scrapbook and asked his CO for pictures of him. Some had dates. Saw pics of her dad in Korea up to 4 months before she was born. Asks him why no one told her.

Sam says Kate's mom loved Boyd...

Sam says that he never told Kate because he knew that Kate would kill [Boyd?]

Kate: why didn't you? (Re: Sam wanting to kill 'the other man')
Sam: Because I don't have murder in my heart.

I have to call him. - S to K, re: marshal

Kate: Can I have an hour? (Sam nods, Kate hugs him. Says, "Bye, Daddy.")

It wasn't that you drove my father away. or the way you looked at me. or because you beat her. it was because you were a part of me and I would never be good...it makes me sick...

Sawyer- "that's about the sweetest thing I've ever heard".
Kate- Sawyer?? She smiles...he's back.

Bunk bed.

Are we saved?
No, Sawyer, not yet.

It's clear that Kate considered "Daddy" her real father, calling him such even if it seems he's not her biological dad. It was Boyd [?] the man she killed. So...it's apparent there wasn't much love there, but when Jack asked Kate last season in WTCMB what she did she said she killed the man she loved, meaning Tom. Interesting that she didn't flashback to the original crime when formulating an answer.

flora

12-01-2005, 02:03 AM

Locke and Eko at table. Splicing together film?

What are the odds? -Locke.

Somebody made this film. Some one else cut this piece out. We crash. Two halves of the plane crash...what are the odds?

Don't mistake coincidence for faith. (Oh...that is juicy!!!!!!!!!!!)

Sawyer- You've got to be kidding. C'mon, we've been rescued.

Poor Sawyer...he looks downright crestfallen. "Son of a bitch," he says, disappointed.

Here I thought you were yanking my chain.

You need a haircut.

Maybe you ought to take me back inside...

Kate looks to see what Sawyer's looking at and it's the dang Black Stallion again!

Oh...this is so "The Black Stallion"...look at Kate and the horsey.

Sawyer asks, "Do you know that horse, [?????]"
Kate: Yeah, I do.

Tequila and tonic, that's your drink, right?
A
You sure you eant to waste that on me?
I thought you could use a drink, I know I could.

Are you going to try to convince me that everyone doesn't hate me.
Only if you try to convince me that every woman isn't crazy.

Michael fumbles with computer, Eko and Locke watch film.

Film splice: do not use for anything but the numbers especially don't use the computer for communication, do not use it for anything but entering the code (we know already)...otherwise it might cause another "incident"

Computer says "Hello"...but isn't that a different type?
Who is this?
THis is Michael. Who is this?
Dad?

flora

12-01-2005, 02:04 AM

Preview: Dang, Eko uses the King James translation of Psalm 23. Dang, dang, dang. I was counting on him having a different translation.

flora

12-01-2005, 02:39 AM

I'm too sleepy now...but I'll put my notes in the outline form tomorrow. Good night!

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:23 AM

General Episode and Character Info

When Jack has a drink with Ana she asks if he is trying to convince her that everyone doesn't hate her. He retorts that she shouldn't?? try to convince him that every woman in the world is not crazy. (Is her referring to Sarah???)
sledgeweb If the Marshal is right, when he apprehends Kate - in Season 1 - he says (at the airport) that he had been after her for 3 years. So, that would place events in tonights episode 3 Years Before Plane Crash. Kate says she is 24 in this episode.
Assuming that the Marshal caught Kate at the bus depot shortly after the crime, which does make sense.
Michael responding to the message on the computer.
Sgt. Sam Austen was in Korea. A connection to Jin's father the fisherman?
Where was the timer at when Kate left Sawyer alone in the Hatch?
belshep Blast doors and windows are used in commercial and industrial installations designed to protect personnel and property from explosions and explosion borne missiles.

Common Applicatons:

Refineries
Banks
Aerospace
Defense
Test Cells
Laboratories
Haz-Mat Facilities

riccool Remember, the hatches and doors we have seen are marked Quarantine on the INSIDE. This screams to me that these blast doors are added insurance to keep people in from somthing bad happening outside.

AquarianStella Consider that the overall theme of "Lost" is second chances, redemption, forgiveness, etc. and this is being conveyed through religious and mythological motifs.
In Jungian psychology (Carl Jung), "The Shadow" is one of his major archetypes. We're just beginning to see references to shadows and I predict we'll see a lot more before the mystery is resolved. One must confront his "Shadow" and reconcile with it before being made whole (or reborn)...according to Jung. Still more black/white and Yin/Yang...

Mr. Eko said "the shadow of the valley of death" very purposefully ..."Everything happens for a reason". I believe that Mr. Eko knows what's happening on the island.
notlost, justexploring What I thought was significant about what Eko said was that King Josiah was a child. He was 8 or 9 when he became king. I've always loved that story because a child was able to accomplish what all the previous adult kings could not. And he had the book of the law read aloud for all the people to hear.

It is interesting because they took the children.
lockeisthekey King Josiah began his reign at 8 years old, but the events that Mr Eko spoke of began when King Josiah was 26 (in the 18th year of his reign).

Josiah totally cleansed Judah of all the false idols, etc, and took the
people back to the basics. After Josiah died, His son took over when he was 23(King Jehoahaz), and he went right back to all the idolatry.

ExistentialAngel New International Version, King James Version and a Hebrew-Greek study Bible I have all say, "valley of the shadow of death." In the Hebrew-Greek study Bible "shadow of death" is underlined and a superscript gives the Hebrew word it comes from, which is "salmawet" (there's a couple marks on the letters I can't type) which translates as "shadow, darkness, gloom, blackness."
Vertical Someone clearly has been in both hatches. They took the splice from the original film and moved it all the way across the island.

That said, in my opinion, the missing 'splice' represents temptation. The fact that it said, repeatedly "Whatever you do, DON'T USE THE COMPUTER TO TRY TO CONTACT ANYONE ELSE" just screams "Hey, I want to try that". Classic psychology... the more you know you shouldn't do something, the more you want to do it.

Temptation. Using the computer to contact someone is akin to eating the forbidden fruit from the forbidden tree of knowledge. Yes, you will learn everything and become aware, as Adam and Eve did when they ate the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, but you will also sacrifice your 'immortality' (another 'incident' will happen).

The hatch represents the Garden of Eden. It has everything you could ever want - music, food, shower, washing machine, dryer, exercise bike, weaponry, electricity, and a partner to share it with... you can live there forever, safe, happy, etc. With one condition - Use the computer to punch in the numbers and ONLY the numbers.

In the garden of Eden, God provided everything Adam could ever want - safety, companionship, natural beauty, immortality, pure happiness... provided they did not eat from the forbidden tree of knowledge.

Someone has attempted to remove the temptation of using the computer for communication, by removing the source of that temptation - that particular splice of film. But now, instead of Satan convincing Eve to eat from the tree, we have Ecko bringing the splice back, enclosed in a gutted bible... returning the temptation to the Garden of Eden.

And our final shot was of Michael eating the forbidden fruit - using the computer for to communicate with someone else.

Be prepared to see the wrath of God, and don't be surprised to see our lostaways evicted from the hatch now that they've betrayed their single commandment, just as Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden for disobeying God.
EyeAmLost let's not forget the video mentioned something about not letting the people from station 3 try to persuade them to use the computer for anything else other than what it's intended for.

i can see locke stopping michael from trying to communicate with walt. kinda like when bernard heard boone on the radio and ana told him to turn it off.
Eve eating the apple brought sin into being, so using the computer (being tempted by Station 3/Eko) results in another incident.

Fun anagrams
mr_find Gerald & Karen DeGroot - Great Eden Goal

Marvin Candle - Man in Cave

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:31 AM

General Episode and Character Info
crashsurvivor Though I'm sure it's just an inconsistancy, did anyone besides me notice his hair was different at two points on the film?

Both times occured when Locke & Mr. Eko are watching the tape and Michael is examining the computer. I noticed the change around the time Dr. Candle says not to use the computer for anything other than entering the code, his hair is thicker, and his face appears a little younger. Right afterwards, when he speaks of the isolation that occurs at the hatch, his hair is shorter, thinner even, and his face seems to be more strained.
Dr. Candle from the Swan Hatch video http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=candle16hc.jpg
Spliced section, where Candle appears younger http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=candle26nu.jpg

Originally Posted by ArchangelRJ

ACtually, I think I interpeded that scene a little differently than you guys... when Eko said "Do not mistake coincidence for fate" the look Locke gave him seemed to say "You're right, it was fate." After all, remember Locke's speech to Jack in Exodus. He's a firm believer in destiny which is obviously bound to fate. He made it quite clear to Jack that none of this was an accident. In fact, his exact words are:

"Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an accident - that we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence - especially, this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason."

Notice his use of the word coincidence... he clearly doesn't believe in it.

My interpetation of the Locke/Eko scene was that Locke got so excited that this stranger he just met happened to be carrying the missing piece that he forgot about fate for a minute, and had to be reminded by Eko. I think the point of that scene was to establish Locke and Eko, not as rivals, but as friends, or maybe even brothers (in a figurative sense of course). After all, we already have the big established rivalry with Jack/Locke, why create another?

Also, I don't think Locke was getting uncomfortable with the whole Old Testament thing. I don't thik he has another against religion either... he even refered to Jesus as "Jesus Christ", something I've never heard someone that wasn't Christian do. Maybe he believes it, just doens't practice it as much as Eko does.

Diaz I understand what you are saying and you are right we do see it differently. The quote you gave by Locke to Jack last season is an affirmation that Locke believes in Fate and not coincidence. His spiel tonight about the missing splice was another exposition on how finding it was an example of Fate NOT an example of coincidence.

Eko clearly sees the danger, in his mind, of relying on Fate instead of Faith. Happenstance and coincidence exist for the sake of themselves not at the whim of Fate. He tells Locke to not confuse the two. Locke's profession of Faith is a False Faith. Hence Eko's being sure to tell Locke the story of the re-affirmation of the Covenant. This lesson could come from many places but since Eko seems to be religious he uses the Old Testament.

Locke does not believe in coincidence. He has shown it time and again. It was even shown when we saw the last confrontation between him and hid "Dad." In that scene his Dad told him there was not an explantion for why he did what he did. "Do you think you are the only person that has ever been conned?" was the approximate line.

Locke thought it was the fulfilment of Fate to find his Dad when in reality it was simply a means to an end. It was a distraction from Faith. A path that leads you away from what you should know (or have Faith in.) In the case of Locke and his Dad, Locke should have Faith in the fact that his Dad used him him to get a kidney he needed and that is all he wanted from Locke.

Instead of accepting that, Locke continued to believe that there had to be more and that Fate would not be so cruel. He is always de-crying out loud why he is being forsaken. If he had Faith he would realize it does not ever forsake you, instead he is the false-believer that searches endlessly for an answer to which he does even know the question. In his version of Faith (Fate based faith) he looks for "favor" but does not realize that "true" Faith does not give favor but rather expects it in return.

For me there is no doubt that Locke is the antithesis to Eko.
beagle1962 i think eko has faith, while locke believes more in fate--two different things, but i'm not sure he was referring to this. he may have just wanted locke to understand the difference between the two.

Coincidence:

an event that might have been arranged although it was really accidental
the quality of occupying the same position or area in space; "he waited for the coincidence of the target and the cross hairs"
concurrence: the temporal property of two things happening at the same time; "the interval determining the coincidence gate is adjustable"
the ratio of the observed frequency of double crossings-over to the expected frequency, where the expected frequency is calculated by assuming that the two crossing-over events occur independently of each other.
a coincidence occurs when unexpected parallels can be drawn from two or more events. In the popular sense it is used to describe events (or, more accurately, combinations of two or more events) which are of low probability.

Fate:

destiny: an event (or a course of events) that will inevitably happen in the future
destiny: the ultimate agency that predetermines the course of events (often personified as a woman); "we are helpless in the face of Destiny"
destiny or Fate concerns the fixed natural order of the universe. It is the invincible necessity to which even the gods must accede, as the Sibyl of Delphi confessed. Destiny is fate, personified in Greek culture by the three Moirae (called the Parcae by the Romans), with a Nordic counterpart in the three Norns. The "doom of the powers" in Norse mythology is Ragnarok the battle which even Odin must inevitably face, at the end of the world.
the destined result of life after a sequence of fated events. Kismet, Karma, destiny are other names.
the normal outcome of differentiation of a cell’s progeny.
fate, even in the waking world, has a wide variety of misconceptions and misunderstandings. As a dream symbol, it becomes that much more complex to interpret. If, in your dream you recognize that you are on a path that is motivated by fate or, a dream character actually tells you that fate has a hand in your life direction, you can be certain that you are experiencing a profound and meaningful dream experience.

elfdream Patsy Cline was..ahem..'white trash' that made good. She and Sawyer would have been 'kindred spirits' I live close to her hometown and everything there is Patsy Cline this or Patsy Cline worked here or sang here or stood on this street corner or whatever.

The Marshal called Kates mom white trash.

Another shot of Eko's stick
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=843

cardielost But let's not forget that Kate also committed insurance fraud. There's cold-blooded for you.

Kate seems to h ave a strangely dissociative personality in which she reacts to symbols of things rathr than the things themselves. For her, Tom's toy airplane so represents her love for him that she goes to absurd legths to get it back. And Wayne represents her hatred of herself. Many people in that state of mind would kill themselves; Kate kills Wayne.

So it's only natural that a horse who wandered by the scene of primal Kate car crash comes to represent her life on the run.

Cardie

flora Kate's mom: I made my bed.
Kate: You're bed is no longer there.

flora "Shannon and I were strangers. We would never have met were it... We would never have spoken. But we did meet. We did speak.

Does Sayid not recall Shannon in the airport? Sounds like he doesn't to me.

flora Locke says Desmond didn't say anything, but he did leave a movie. Eko says he would like to see the movie also. Locke says "The more the merrier"

Eko, "I would like to see it too, if you don't mind"

Kate asks Sun if he said anything. Sun thinks she's talking about Sawyer. I think she was talking about Jack???

Sayid hangs a necklace on Shannons cross. It looks like there is a heart on it?

When the Marshal is talking to Kate in the line up, he says that Tallahassee is full of strip malls and Waffle houses. Did this mean something???

When Kate tells Jack that she's sorry for hurting Sawyer, and Jack says sarcastically, "Are you?" Kate says, "Yeah, I'm sorry"...I'm not as perfect as you, as good as you" She tries to walk away, but Jack grabs her arm (which triggers her phobia) I also think Jack may have experienced this fight with Sarah??

Wayne asks Kate what that smell is (gas) and she says it's probably his breath. LOL

Eko asks Locke if he's familiar with the story of ??. Locke says, "No fraid I don't" Eko says, "I believe what's inside there will be of great value to you" Is Locke religious??? or does Eko see his priorites are mixed up??? This whole piece can have so many meanings. (double entendre...is that the right phrase??)

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:33 AM

Flashback Cast

Marshall Edward Marrs smoked.

Sgt. Sam Austen - the man Kate believed to be her father all her life, until she decided to make him a scrapbook for his birthday, contacted his CO and received pictures from him with dates that proved he was in Korea 4 months before her birth.

Wayne - Dianes new husband, who turns out to be Kate's actual father.

2 cops in the bus depot?

Red Shirts & Supporting Cast
Several sightings around camp as well as at the funeral

Secrets - Kate murdered her father

Sayid told Kate about seeing Walt in the jungle just before Shannon was shot.

Sgt. Sam Austen was not Kate's father. Sam, "I didn't tell you because I knew you'd kill him, and your mother loved him"

flora Just remember that you were here and didn't see me.-Kate

Character Connections

Visions, Hallucinations and Dreams - Kate sees the black horse in the jungle. Sawyer sees the Big *** Black horse too.

Character Info:
--> Symbolic tattoos, clothing or jewelry - Kate is wearing a black bracelet.
Diane is wearing something on her wrist?

--> Meaning of names
Sam - short form of Samson, Samuel

Sam - Hebrew: To hear

Samson - From the Hebrew name Shimshon which probably meant "sun". Samson was an Old Testament hero of exceptional strength. His uncut hair was the source of his power, but his mistress Delilah betrayed him and cut it. Thus he was captured by the Philistines, blinded, and brought to their temple. However, in a final act of strength, he pulled down the pillars of the temple upon himself and his captors.

Samuel - From the Hebrew name Shemu'el which could mean either "name of God" or "God has heard". Samuel was the last of the ruling judges in the Old Testament. He anointed Saul to be the first king of Israel, and later anointed David.

Diane - French form of Diana

Diane - Latin: Celestial Hunter

Diana - Probably derived from an old Indo-European root meaning "heavenly, divine", related to dyeus (see Zeus). Diana was a Roman goddess of the moon, hunting, forests, and childbirth, often identified with the Greek goddess Artemis. Diana Spencer, the Princess of Wales, was a famous bearer of this name.

Zeus - The name of a Greek god, related to the old Indo-European god *dyeus whose name probably meant "shine" or "sky". In Greek mythology he was the highest of the gods. After he and his siblings defeated the Titans, Zeus ruled over the earth and humankind from atop Mount Olympus. He had control over the weather and his weapon was a thunderbolt.

Wayne - From an occupational surname meaning "wagon maker", derived from Old English wægn "wagon". Use as a first name can be partly attributed to the popularity of the actor John Wayne. Another famous bearer is Canadian hockey player Wayne Gretzky, likely the greatest in the history of his sport.

Wayne - Old English: Wagon maker

Russ - short form of Russell

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:34 AM

--> Birthdays / ages - Kate mentions she is 24 to her mom, when her mom asks for ID for the beer Kate requests.

Sgt. Sam Austen had a birthday coming soon.

--> Employment history - Diane Jansen works as a waitress at a greasy spoon.
Sgt. Sam Austen works in a US Army recruiting office???

Philosophy & History References - When Michael hears the 3 beeps on the computer, the timer is at 51

= Area 51
http://www.fas.org/irp/overhead/groom.htm

Literature, Film & TV References - The policeman standing in the phonebooth was a shout out to The Third Policeman??

nicole94 re: the matrix comment

You DO realize that Michael is also in the Matrix as the one who reads the codes and send people into and out of the Matrix

Re: the tv show, The Mole

happypixie But don't forget the new stuff at the hanso site.
when who is this was typed in the answer was MOLE
My thought is that some one is messing with them
all the info is at this site.
http://lost.cubit.net/index.php

one definition for mole is a spy or double-agent that forms their backstory and establishes their cover within a group before embarking on espionage....

Charlie while talking to Kate says, "A few of them came...Not her...That would have been awkward....sounds like there experience was like Lord of the Flies"

Art, Graphic Art and Comics - Janis Joplin t-shirt. There's a good cap kicking around.

Songs of Lost
Patsy Cline, Walkin after Midnight is played by Kate in the Hatch.

The End of the World, in the diner where Kate's Mom works, is Skeeter Davis

Janis Joplin t-shirt on Kate while sitting on stairs waiting for Wayne to come home.

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:36 AM

Religious References

At Shannon's funeral, Jack says, "May she rest in peace"

Funeral hymn - http://www.musicanet.org/robokopp/usa/restnobl.htm

Rest, noble Martyr! rest in peace:
Rest with the true and brave,
Who, like thee, fell in Freedom's cause,
The nation's life to save.
2. Thy name shall live while time endures,
And men shall say of thee,
"He saved his country from its foes,
And bade the slave be free."
3. These deeds shall be thy monument,
Better than brass or stone;
They leave thy fame in glory's light,
Unrival'd and alone.
4. This consecrated spot shall be
To Freedom ever dear;
And Freedom's sons of every race
Shall weep and worship here,
5. O God! before whom we, in tears,
Our fallen Chief deplore;
Grant that the cause, for which he died,
May live forevermore.
Doxology:
To Father, Son and Holy Ghost,
The God whom we adore,
Be glory as it was, is now,
And shall be evermore.

INPUT EKO'S STORY - OLD TESTAMENT

Charlie The story Mr. Echo told can be found in chapter 22 of 2 Kings. Which leads to the renewing of the covenant in chapter 23! Interesting...
TabbyRasa long b4 Christ, the King of Judah, there was a man ________
at that time, a temple was in ruin
so people worshipped idols, false gods, kingdom in disarry
.....
we must rebuild the temple, give all of the gold to the workers so this will be done
....he had no gold
....
"we found a book"
"do youknow this story?"
"no afraid I don't"
....ancient book, the Book of Law
you may know it as the Old Testament
...rebuilt the temple
on the other side of the island, we found a place much like this
and in this place, we found a book
(unwraps Bible)
I believe what's inside there will be of great value to you
(locke opens Bible)
film roll inside

Weird Props and Recurring Imagery
--> Airplanes (toys and real)
--> Amputron 4200
--> Batteries
--> Boxes,
--> Bronze Cuckoo - Walt's little birdie
--> Butterflies & Moths
--> Compass
--> Creepy Dolls

--> Eyes - I think I saw an eye on the decal of the Army place???

-->Globes
-->Green Lantern Comic Book

-->Handcuffs - Kate is handcuffed my Marshal Edward Maars while in the car heading to the arraignment in Iowa

After the car accident, Kate gets the Marshals key to unlock her cuffs.

Locke removes Jin's handcuffs and says, "Free at last" Jin shows Michael who says, "Looks good!"

-->Lamps - in Wayne and Dianes cabin, which looks a lot like the one in the Hatch we see this episode???

-->Locke's Dog Whistle
-->Peanut Butter
-->Posters
-->Sawyer's Letter
-->Suspicious Pen Sightings
-->Tarot

-->Rain, Water, Death and Violence - When Kate and the Marshal get into the car accident it is raining.

--> Other - Kate uses the Marshals keys to unlock her handcuffs.

Parallel Plots & Recurring Themes
--> Broken Families - Sam Austen and Diane ?? were married. Sam went to war in Korea and Diane had an affair with Wayne Jansen and got pregnant. Sam returned and accepted Kate as his daughter. He left Diane when Kate was 5 years old. He wanted to take her with him, but Diane wouldn't allow it. While making Sam a scrapbook for a birthday present, Kate discovered by the dates on the back of the pictures, that Sam was not her dad, but Wayne was.
DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT????

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:39 AM

--> Character Parallels - While speaking to Sawyer in the Hatch, Jack mentions that Michael told him that Sawyer had removed the bullet with his own hand. Jack says, "You'll have to teach me that some day" This reminded me of Jack saying to Kate that he'd never learned the 'whisper in the ear' trick in medical school (Collision)

If the black horse represents Wayne, and he appeared to Kate after the accident, it is eerily like Jack seeing his dad.

Both Sawyer and the Marshal grabbed Kates throat.

Melt 4 Jack I think the Marshal was possessing Sawyer at the beginning of the episode when "Sawyer" spoke to Jack. The first thing he said was "where is she," ironically the first thing the Marshal said to Jack when he was unconscious and Jack was treating him. And we know that the Marshal and Kate had a thing together because in epi 3 he said to Jack "she got to you too didn't she?" Maybe the Marshal loved Kate and since we know he's dead, he could have been the spirit that spoke to Jack and the one that grabbed Kate by the throat.

Wayne blowed up good like Arzt.

HelloooClareece
One kills to protect a loved one (Kate/Mother) and the other kills to avenge a loved one (AL/baby). They both feel justified in their actions. It seems they would both kill for someone they loved.

flora Another thumbs up by Hurley (a la to Walt when first boarding the plane)

flora I saw Walt in the jungle just before Shannon was shot. Does that make me crazy?

Kate thinks she's going crazy. "I'm probably crazy and this doesn't matter. Maybe your in there somehow. You asked me why I did it. It wasn't because you chased my father away, looked at me that way or beat her. I hate that your a part of me. (no good in me?) No good will ever happen for me. When I look at Sawyer, I see you Wayne. It makes me sick. Sawyer, "That's the sweetest thing I've ever heard. Who the hells Wayne?"

Kate tells Sayid, "I went crazy....Do you believe in ghosts, Sayid?" Sayid replies that he saw Walt in the jungle just before Shannon was shot....Does that make me crazy?"

flora So, who's taking care of Sawyer?
Sun is.
What, are you mad at him?
Hurley explains that Sawyer always used to come there to chop wood and now there's Jack chopping wood. He calls it transference- a term he picked up in the mental hospital.

Jack says, "What are you a shrink now?"

Charlie tells Jack that Kate was acting a little (balmy?) and she was asking about horses.

flora Are you going to try to convince me that everyone doesn't hate me.
Only if you try to convince me that every woman isn't crazy.

While Kate and Jack are fighting, hugging, kissing .... Kate mumbles .....crazy.....driving me nuts????

Melt 4 Jack I think the Marshal was possessing Sawyer at the beginning of the episode when "Sawyer" spoke to Jack. The first thing he said was "where is she," ironically the first thing the Marshal said to Jack when he was unconscious and Jack was treating him. And we know that the Marshal and Kate had a thing together because in epi 3 he said to Jack "she got to you too didn't she?" Maybe the Marshal loved Kate and since we know he's dead, he could have been the spirit that spoke to Jack and the one that grabbed Kate by the throat.

--> Free Will vs. Fate - Eko tells Locke not to confuse coincidence with Fate. (in regards to finding the film strip in the bible)

--> Reasons for Being on the Plane

--> Recurring Phrases - Several people said, "Hey!" in this episode. Hurley to Jack, twice.

Mr. Eko walks up to A-L. "Hey....I think most of them realize it was an accident"

Either Kate or Charlie say Hey when they meet up in the jungle.

Wayne says, "Hey girl" to Kate when he comes home.

TabbyRasa "hello again" L to Eko
"hello" Eko

TabbyRasa Hello?
>:
Hello ?
Who is this?
This is MIchael. Who is this?
Dad?

Sawyer, "I thought you were yanking my chain" Someone else used this phrase before???

TabbyRasa "home sweet home" Sawyer Sawyer said, "We're Home", when the raft neared the island.

--> Other - Attempt to use the computer for anything other than entering the code....only function.....Isolation....Communicating with the outside world is strictly forbidden....compromise the integrity of the project......Worse!...lead to another incident. Does this parallel with Eve eating the forbidden fruit?

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:41 AM

Numbers References -
Sawyer asked for Kate...Jack says she'd been watching over him for the past 24 hours.

Kate mentions to Diane that she is 24 years old (when Diane asks her for ID for the beer)

Kate asks for a 1 way ticket to Tallahassee

We see 23 - 22 on the timer.

Locke inputs 22 by mistake.

We see 23 on the timer again (different time)

The timer returns to 108 00

Locke tells Michael about the 4 minute warning.

The car the Marshal is driving has a license plate = 32929
http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ford8ea.jpg

Kate tells Sgt. Sam Austen that she's been waiting outside for 2 hours and there are no cops around.

The date on the pictures that Sam's CO sends to Kate, makes her realize that he was in Korea 4 months before her birth.

Sam tells Kate that she was 5 years old when he left Diane and wanted to take her with him.

Kate asks Sam if she can have a 1 hour head start.

sledgeweb If the Marshal is right, when he apprehends Kate - in Season 1 - he says (at the airport) that he had been after her for 3 years. So, that would place events in tonights episode 3 Years Before Plane Crash. Kate says she is 24 in this episode.

This would make Kate 27 at the time of the crash (Way off Shannon's estimate that they were close to the same age, or do we have Shannons age wrong?)

When Michael hears the 3 beeps from the computer, the timer is at 51.

Michael comments that they have to push the buttons every 2 hours.

Locke tells him that there are 2 people per shift, every 6 hours and that everyone is on the roster.

There are 3 graves in the cemetary now.

Replaying of the film, Dr. Candle mentions the 4 minutes to input the code.

Kate pays for her bus ticket with ??? Need cap

Accidents - Kate and the Marshall are in a car accident on the way to Iowa for her arraignment.( . He is lighting his smoke and swerves to avoid a deer.Was it the Gold car?)

Kate almost falls out of the tree while getting fruit for Sawyer.

Mr. Eko walks up to A-L. "Hey....I think most of them realize it was an accident"

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:45 AM

Misc. Symbolism -

BowieCokeMirrorIn some cultures horses represent love, relationships, and compassion. I'm thinking Polynesian culture in particular.

2002 was the chinese year of the black horse, apparently.

RexTheShark A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Wayne.

Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Wayne.

People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Wayne will never speak unless he has something to say.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?

Well listen to this. I am Mister Wayne.
Note: Kates dad's name was Wayne

http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/prophecy/revbook/seals1-4.html

The Third Seal ... A Black Horse
Rev. 6 - 5: And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6: And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

From the parable of the labourers in the vineyard, we learn that a denarius (translated 'penny' in this verse) was then the ordinary wage for a day's work. (Matthew 20:2-13)

Here we are shown a symbolic picture of hyper-inflation, crippling food shortages, rising prices and mass starvation! The rider on the black horse represents famine world famine! when food prices for even the barest of life's necessities will sky-rocket out of control. Can you imagine the world's economy so depressed that a man would work all day for the price of a few loaves of bread? I'm sure that not many of us can imagine this happening, even though rising food prices are all too familiar. But, according to this prophecy, runaway inflation coupled with frightening food shortages are due to occur in the last days. Indeed, in many countries they have already arrived, Prices are rising daily in all the markets of the world and there is very little anyone or any government can do to stop them.

The rider on the black horse may not be moving at speed in the West, but I can assure you that in the East, in South America and Africa he is out there in the field and he is soon to break into an earthshaking gallop. Famines generally follow war. In this and the Olivet prophecy Yeshua the Saviour confirms this when he says:
Matthew. 24 - 7 Nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom and there shall be famines.

http://www.answers.com/topic/four-horsemen-of-the-apocalypse

Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (əpŏk'əlĭps) , allegorical figures in the Book of Revelation in the Bible. The rider on the white horse has many interpretations—one is that he represents Christ; the rider on the red horse is war; on the black horse is famine; and on the pale horse, death.

http://www.greatdreams.com/animals.htm

HORSE - denotes a 'wild' nature, can be sexual connotations involved In ancient lore horses sometimes see visions, hear voices and speak. The horse is capable of quick starts but panics easily. The horse has tempestuous emotions. Dreams of horses striking out blindly are often interpreted as a longing for integration. In the book of Revelations there are a series of horses in Chapter 6. The white horse can represent qualities necessary to master, balance, and control the sex life. Fear of riding a white horse an ambivalence of feelings. Seeing four white horses represents the purification of the four lower centers. To see seven white horses swimming, means that when the spiritual quest is finished would come power and life. When balanced, this energy brings courage, persistence, drive, energy, and patience. On the negative side, the red horse usually represents dangerous, negative emotions for 'red' usually means "stop". The black horse in the book of Revelations relates to a necessary balance of the male and female qualities of the soul. Riding a black horse represents a need to control the energies of the body, usually sexual. The pale horse represents the thymus gland and represents the affections of love. Being halted by horses denotes a necessity to control and redirect the emotions. Falling off a horse shows rejection of some of the dream warnings. To follow a horses foottracks represents following Christ's footsteps.

abbybaby All I got out of it is that Kate and the Marshall were driving through farm country and a horse got lose, this horse saved kate at home and reappeared on the island to save her again, remeber, she thought she was going crazy, then sawyer saw the horse too.....kind of like Shannon thinking she was crazy for seeing walt then Sayid saw him too..............hummmmmmmm

farscaper87 I thought that the black horse was the spirit of her biological father, Wayne. First protecting her in death as he hadn't in life, then on the island forgiving her.

I agree that there are parallels to Sawyer's boar, though.

beagle 1962 Dream symbolism:
If the horse is black, you will be successful in your fortune, but you will practice deception, and will be guilty of assignations. To a woman, this dream denotes that her husband is unfaithful. To dream of dark horses, signifies prosperous conditions, but a large amount of discontent. Fleeting pleasures usually follow this dream
.A black horse means death or separation.
BLACK HORSE a passionate sense of mystery
BLACK HORSE fleeting pleasures
BLACK HORSE mysterious and unknown passions
A black horse means you {sic} will power is undeveloped and you should practice making decisions.
if you have a black horse in a dream, you better start making some decisions, because it's telling you that your will is very, very weak. You are giving up to other people your ability to make decisions
Other references:

Rev 6:2 KJV) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

When John looks through the window he sees a White Horse. There are going to be four horses that ride, White, Red, Black, and Pale. When they come, they don't take a turn around the track and relay to the other one and then the next one comes out. The first seal breaks and the first horse is released, then we will see shortly after the next one is released and so on. As we look at the horses that are released, they have a causative affect. The White horse causes the Red horse to go into motion, the Red triggers the Black horse, and the Black horse ultimately causes the Pale horse to ride. They are all on the track at the same time. If you talk to the Seventh Day Adventist, they will tell you that these events were set into motion along time ago. That the white horse is Jesus and he rode for a thousand years, then that Red horse was Attila the Hun. The horses are not things in the past but are yet in the near future.

What is the traditional Interpretation of the Black Horse and rider?Now the lamb opened the third seal and the third beast, the Man, told John to come and see. John saw: "And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine (Rev. 6:6-7)."

Now the "black horse" (Greek: hippos melas) symbolically represents famine. The rider with the balance and a measure of wheat shows forth the ration of wheat and barley for a days wages (Rev. 6:5-6; compare Zec. 6:2,6).

A penny for a measure of wheat and 3 measures of barley is the "day’s wage" for food [See "PLIM REPORT" July/Aug. 1993 p. 35-36]. Now a measure of wheat is equal to about a dry quart.

There were many famines in the Old Testament, beginning with Abraham (Gn 12:10) and the Children of Israel’s migration into Egypt looking for food (Gn. 42:5-6). Now many Bible scholars have trouble with the rider on this horse being the Messiah.

What is the true interpretation?

The Black Horse and its rider represent both the physical and spiritual famine (Deu. 8:3; Amos 8:11; Jn. 6:51-67). We have had countless famines over the last 2,000 years, which show that this plague constantly repeats itself on mankind.

The Messiah spoke to Israel in parables. He said that He was the living bread (Jn. 6:28), living water, and His flesh was food (Jn. 6:51-62). He told them: "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life (Jn. 6:63)." Those who refused to eat His words are in a spiritual famine.

Now the nations of the world are in spiritual famine already, which they do not see. As part of the world is already suffering from famines, there will be great physical famine coming on the whole world likened unto Egypt when Yahweh plagued it.

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:47 AM

Major Lost Mysteries:
--> Monster / Security System - Charlie mentions the monster when Kate ask if he's seen a horse on the island. He says he's seen polar bears and heard the monster.

--> Polar Bear - When Kate asks Charlie if he's seen a horse on the island, he mentions the Polar Bear and the monster.

--> Hatch - Sawyer thinks they have been rescued, when he wakes up in the Hatch, in a bunkbed.

Michael works on the hardware after discovering the blast doors that recede from the ceiling, in case of an explosion.

Michael, Eko and Locke watch the film.

Locke and Eko watch the newly found filmstrip of one of the missing sections.

Sawyer attacks Kate and she fights back

--> Whispers
--> Others
--> Black Rock

Misc. Unsolved Mysteries - Was Sawyer possessed by the spirit of Wayne, when he asks Kate why she killed him?

Were the redshirts going to be allowed to see the Hatch? Locke said that everyone is on the number pushing roster.

flora Kate says Sawyer should enjoy being fed by her (like a baby).
Says she saw a horse- "That's what you get when you don't sleep."

Dream or Hallucination from sleep deprivation?

People Puzzles:
--> Sceve: the Mystery of Scott and Steve

--> Walt's Special Powers? - Walt communicating with Michael on the computer.

-->Clues to Locke's Mysterious Condition
-->Clues to the Death of Dr. Christian Shephard

Character Travels & Island Exploration

Maps & Landmarks

Lost Timeline

Geography of Lost (Places They've Been or Mentioned)

Tallahassee, FLORIDA!!!

Iowa for Kates arraignment

Sgt. Sam Austen was in Korea.

flora Country song as "dad" pulls up. Gee, he looks like the marshal. Song mentions "Alabama" and "Montana" but I don't know what it is.

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:50 AM

Booze
Wayne comes home drunk.

When Kate goes to the diner to see her mother, she asks for a beer.

Diane calls Kates motorbike a 'death-trap' without a helmet, and that she wasn't going to help your cause by getting her drunk.

Jack approaches Ana on the beach and mentions that her drink was tequila and tonic. He shows her his little bottles of booze. She asks about the tonic and he says they are running a little short of mixers. Ana asks if he's sure he wants to waste that on her. Jack says she looks like she could use a drink and so could he.

Drugs

Sex - Wayne comes onto Kate while she is putting him to bed. He asks if she is going to remove his pants. YUCK

He mentions a few times that she is beautiful, and even gets snarky that she's not replying to his compliment. DOUBLE YUCK

TabbyRasa the kiss - Jack and Kate...she kissed him first

Food - Kate gathers some fruit for Sawyer and is mashing it to feed to him when he wakes up. She says he'll get a kick out of her feeding him like a baby.

Weapons - Ana appears to be making a weapon while sitting on the beach (when Jack has the drink with her)??

Fights
Kate attacks the Marshall when he tries to arrest her at the bus depot? We see he has a bandaid on his nose, later in the car.

After the car crashes, Kate punches him. The Marshal chokes her so she kicks him and escapes.

While hallucinating (being possessed?) Sawyer chokes Kate and she defends herself, resulting in Sawyer being found on the floor.

Bondage / Captivity
Kate is taken as a fugitive by the Marshal and his 2 sidekicks. The Marshal is transporting her in handcuffs to Iowa for her arraignment.

TabbyRasa Shannon's wrapped body, brown cloth, 3 black ties...that one black tie looks like a blindfold

Diane and Kate were trapped in an unhappy/unhealthy family situation.

Sickness/Injury - Sawyer still has a fever and Jack tells Kate to keep him hydrated.
Sawyer has a hallucination?

Sun is giving/preparing medicine for Sawyer.

Jack mentions Sawyer pulling out the bullet with his own hand.

Sawyer chokes Kate and she fights back??

Kate, "How's that wrist" Diane, "I hit it on that shelf in the kitchen" Diane has a black wrap on her left wrist.

Kate, "When I look at Sawyer, I see you Wayne. It makes me sick"

Hygiene - Someone has been using the Washer and Dryer (the door was open on the dryer)

Automobiles - Kate owns a motorbike

The Marshal transports Kate in a car (the infamous Gold one?)

Wayne drives a truck.

Island Technology / Inventions - Ana is building a shelter?
Sayid has a hand-made shovel to dig Shannons grave.

The Morgue: Body Count and Funeral Rites - Shannon has had a funeral. May she rest in peace.
Jack throws in the first handful of dirt. You see a line forming that appears to be Locke, Sun, Claire, Charlie, Jin .......
Sun has a bunch of yellow flowers (yellow means friends?)

Goofs - Dirt Merchant Anyone else notice that after the accident, which knocked the marshall silly and deployed the car's air bags, there was s hot of Kate backing up and driving off with what appeared to be no front end damage to the car? Oops...
BowieCokeMirror ...and wouldn't the airbag be an annoyance when you're trying to drive off in it?
Some posters think they see a hand in this scene.
http://www.hostmypiconline.com/images/Picture%202zz.png

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:51 AM

Games all_games There is reference to at least one game or toy in every episode.

S1E1
Model Plane- Jack makes a model plane from leaves when speaking with Kate
Tennis- Jack passes a tennis shoe hanging in a tree
Checkers or Chess- Charlie’s shoes resemble a game board

S1E2
Backgammon- Locke and Walt; Walt and Hurley
Comic Book
Checkers – Walt asks if backgammon is like checkers
Dice

S1E3
Puppet Show- Sawyer refers to Sayid’s demo of the plane flight and crash as a puppet show
Tabula Rasa- Tabula is an ancient game from which Backgammon is thought to be derived
Whistle
Sawyer says -"You're trying to save a guy who last time I checked had a piece of metal the size of my head sticking out of his bread basket."

S1E4
Axis and Allies War Game- Locke and GL12 in office
Crossword Puzzle – Shannon doing one
Tennis- Walt is playing with a tennis ball

S1E5
Dolls- Discovered by Jack when he finds the caves
Tennis- Jack’s father is wearing tennis shoes

S1E6
GO -the black and white stones that Jack finds with Adam and Eve are stone pieces used in the Chinese game GO

S1E7
Stuffed Teddy Bear with ribbon around its neck and other toys that Charlie’s niece Megan Pace has in her sandbox

S1E8
Con Game- Sawyer is a Con Man and entire Flashback is about a con game being played on Sawyer’s victim
Pool- there is an 8 ball on the table
Make Believe- Charlie and Claire play "Make Believe" with peanut butter

S1E9
Golf- Hurley builds course

S1E10
Toy Plane Mobile over crib in Claire’s dream
GO - The black and white stones that appear in Locke’s eyes during Claire’s dream are pieces
used in the Chinese game GO
Word Jumble- Ethan Rom=Other Man
Toy Plane on Claire’s night table

S1E11
Backgammon - Hurley and Walt play
Fantasy Island- Was a TV show; Sawyer calls Walt "Tattoo" a character on the show
Hatch- The hatch is found. Could be a reference to Richard Hatch the first winner of survivor

S1E12
Toy Plane – Kate takes it from the safe deposit box at the bank

S1E13
Tennis- Boone plays tennis with Blonde girl; and Walt plays fetch with Vincent and a tennis ball
in several other episodes

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 07:51 AM

Games all_games

S1E14
Comic Book and golf
Poker – Boone wears a t-shirt with a "Four of a Kind" of Aces on the front
Model Ship in Lawyers Office
Whistle

S1E15
Golf Course- Charlie tells Claire a golf course was built

S1E16
I Never- Sawyer and Kate play this drinking game

S1E17
Game theme- the entire episode relates to game themes of starting over, new lives and going back to the beginning.
Crystal Chess Set was on a coffee table to the right behind Jin in Mr. Paik’s office
Golf- Jin plays golf with black rocks
Backgammon again

S1E18
Lottery- Hurley
Connect Four – Lenny plays in mental hospital
Sims – Lenny’s last name is Sims
Dominos, Jig Saw puzzles, Blocks, Ball, Lego, Chess Set, stuffed animals and many more games
and toys are in the psych ward where Hurley visits Lenny
Counting Beans Contest- Sam Toomey wins when he uses the numbers
Hockey- Visible on Hurley’s TV
Tekken- Hugo Reyes is on the production staff for Tekken and characters in the game include Alex, Polar Bear, Jin, Jack, and Marshall Law
Target Practice- Charlie tells Hurley they were target practice for Danielle
Football- Hurley wears a football jersey
Baseball- Diego Reyes wears a baseball jersey
Quest- Charlie says to Hurley "What inspired this little quest"

S1E19
Mouse Trap – Locke selling in Toy Store
Foosball table- when Locke was talking to the Private Investigator in the break room.
Toy Store, was also visible in S1E4
Football – Locke’s mother asks where they are in Toy Store,

S1E20
Football - Sarah wearing a football jersey night before wedding
Baseball – Christian Shepard talks about the Red Sox
Sugarplum fairies- Charlie counts Claire’s contractions in Sugarplum fairies: A reference to the game hide & seek. "Many UK children count in Sugarplum fairies while they hide their eyes. There is also a Sugarplum fairy in the game Candyland

S1E21
Half Life- terrorists playing Half Life video game
Sayid and Essam playing soccer

S1E22
Baseball- in backseat of Tom’s car when with Kate
Baseball with name "John Locke" on it; John Locke Mercer and Aaron Boone were baseball players, Yankees have the same numbers retired (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42)
Baseball cap in Time Capsule
Toy plane seen again
Minnie Mouse Doll on backseat of Tom’s car
Teddy Bear Magnets on Tom’s refrigerator
Gameboy- Desk clerk at motel is playing with a Gameboy
Survivor- Sawyer says "You gonna vote me off?"

S1E23
Toy Plane seen again
Crazy 8’s- Old man’s hat in airport says it
Word Seek Puzzle- Shannon does one in airport
Choosing Sticks- to see who carries the dynamite

S1E24
Gameboy - Walt playing Cabella’s Big Game Hunter ‘05 Adventures
Operation- Locke mentions when moving dynamite
Soccer team- in Airport with numbers on backs

S2E1
Ping Pong Table- in Hatch
Racing- Checkered flags on Desmond’s bike
Pente is thought by some to be the game on the coffee table in the hatch; Pente is played with black & white stones; Pente is a variation of the game GO; Pente is the name of Charlie's solo album as listed on the Driveshaft website
Sound of Computer in Hatch beeping is the noise from Pong, the first video game

S2E2
Riddle is the password to the hatch "What did one snowman say to the other snowman?"
Stuffed Toy Polar Bear- Michael gives Walt one when he is leaving for Rome with his mother
Race Round the World- Desmond states he was on a solo race around the world
Dart Board in the Hatch
Stuffed Rabbit- Desmond has one in the hatch and grabs before leaving
Boomerang- on Libby’s stick

S2E3
Many games are shown in the hatch.
Computer Games - the Orientation film says not to use the computer for anything else, perhaps a reference to not using it for games.

S2E4
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - The game also features fast-food restaurants where the characters can go to "re-fuel". One of the restaurants is called the "Cluckin' Bell"."Have a cluckity-cluck-cluck day" is the exact thing employees at the Bell say to CJ, the GTA character when he leaves the restaurant. Also, the chicken hats they wear are identical to those of the GTA Bell employees also.

S2E5
Stuffed Teddy Bear with Sayid’s tie (DVD extra feature) being carried by child as Jin and Mr. Eko are hiding in grass

S2E6
Teddy Bear on Shannon’s chair
Doll House
Stuffed Lamb
Tea Set
Backgammon
Stuffed Rabbit in Shannon’s bag
Raggedy Ann Doll in Shannon’s apartment
Stuffed animals on Shannon’s bed

S2E7
Teddy Bear
Boomerang tied to stick
Skiing/Race

S2E8
Golf
Crossword Puzzle
Ping Pong
Dart Board
Boomerang
Pool- Jason Playing

Hanso Website
Fear Factor -Joop van den Ende, a self made billionaire, on the Forbes list, owes his fortune to television production....is credited with pioneering the format that is now the basis of reality shows like Fear Factor, a popular NBC series
Games- Joop spent his birthday playing games, see the Press Release http://www.thehansofoundation.org/lep.html

Mega Lotto Jackpot Site
Lotto
Contest to win Washer/Dryer

sawyerkissme

12-01-2005, 08:43 AM

waltisfuture

12-01-2005, 08:49 AM

Well, I'd say I have something to add but you guys are so all over this list. Deb (car) has told me soooo much about it, and how hard you guys are working. Any idea when ? I haven't seen her to ask her yet.

Cool job!

As soon as possible. It's techy crap that's causing the delay. All the info is input right up to Collision, so keep the Faith. :rolleyes:

General Episode and Character Info

John_Locke Anyone heard of EMP ? The blast doors may well be there to protect the computer from an Electro Magnetical Pulse facility emitted from what i believe is
The Hanso Foundation Electromagnetic Research Initiative (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/emri.html) somewhere on the Island.

The Swan (Station 3, aka. The hatch) being the central hub for
The Hanso Mathematical Forecasting Initiative (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/mfi.html)
EMP will quite efficiently render any circuitboards and transistors, and almost anything else that uses electricity dead. So If an EMP was switched on somewhere on the island, the computer system as we know it may very well be destroyed, and that is the function of the blast doors...to shield the computer from an EMP.

wavenest I think one book was after all these years???

diggitydirgeI was just rewatching the epi, and I noticed Sayid on the TV when Kate enters the Army recruiting office her dad works in. If you have Tivo, go frame by frame as you see the TV right after Kate enters the office and you'll see it. Plain as day, but very quick in real time.

Why was Sayid on TV? Did they give him props for what he did to help on the suicide bombing incident?

http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=721

http://members.tripod.com/~SunnyGal_2/index.2html

"HELLO" MY FRIEND, "HELLO"
"Don't Hide The Scars"
I wept all alone, suffered on my own
I didn't think that anyone would understand until you opened up and shared your painful past with me.
Then the wounds that I kept hidden were touched by heaven's hand
Because God used you and all you have been through.
Don't hide the scars --- Don't be afraid to let them show.
'Cause someone who hurts will see theirself in you
There's healing in knowing you are not the only one
You can touch another's heart
Don't hide the scars.
Everyone must go though dark nights of the soul.
And bear the pain and all the wounds that life can bring ---
For in the worst of times, we need the strength of another ---
With God's love flowing through them, we can find the faith we need.
So no matter where you stood, it all works out for good.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma/Shayna143/hello.html

Neil Diamond
Hello again, Hello

Hello again hello Just called to say: hello. I couldnt sleep at all tonight And I know its late But I couldnt wait. Hello my friend hello Just called to let you know I think about you evry night When Im here alone And youre there at home. Hello. May be its been crazy And may be Im to blame But I put my heart above my head. Weve been through it all And you loved me just the same And when youre not there I just need to hear. Hello my friend hello Its good to need you so Its good to love you like I do And to feel this way When I hear you say: Hello my friend hello. Just called to let you know I think about you evry night And I know its late But I couldnt wait Hello.

Wif Maybe Kate was playing Russian Roulette, and letting fate decide. If the lighter ignited the explosion while she was sitting there, she dies, and if not then she kills Wayne?

No ideas on the how though. I like the idea of it being a cigarette, so it could parallel they way that Sawyer let off the flare, but it seems unlikely.

Colonel Sanders Did Kate say he was "in" Korea or he was in the "Korean war"?!?!?! Anybody catch that?

Also is this pic: http://timdorr.com/images/Lost/thatsjustsayid.jpg You can see that her dad has the patch of the US 6th Army on his sleeve. I did a little research and could find no mention of that Unit ever having been in Korea.

Maybe he went into the 6th Army after he served in Korea!? The 6th Army was deactivated in 1995.

(I hope it's ok that I linked to your pic timdorr!!!!!)

6th Army patch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Sixth_Army

History of the US 6th Army: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Sixth_Army

Thruthefog
"The Lord is my Shepherd" - 23 Psalm

Jack Sheppard - Seat 23 A

Probably not a coincidence either!!!

Lost_In_Louisiana

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/250026_tv29.html
This article talks in depth about the Ana-Lucia hate, including this:

"A few episodes into the second season, the Ana Lucia hate postings littering the Internet are numerous. Some of the interesting ones are available at www.losttv-forum.com (http://www.losttv-forum.com/) and www.thefuselage.com (http://www.thefuselage.com/), home of The Official Ana Lucia Hate Club, and of course, www.televisionwithoutpity.com (http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/). Such threads are not particularly unique; hundreds of sites run on malevolent feelings towards TV characters."

lostbylost There was supposed to be a two man crew manning the Swan station. When Kelvin saves Desmond on the beach he is alone. What happened to his counterpart? He took the piece of film and tried to get off the "Island" but ended up on the other side just like Michael, Jin and Sawyer did. When Desmond first brings the film out it is hidden behind some other books. This piece of film was hidden inside a book. Me thinks the same person was at work.

LostPack - side by side of Dr. Candle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/elpack/candlecompare.jpg

Janis Joplin shirt that Kate is wearing
http://www.luckybrandjeans.com/product.aspx?l=00020076012400000000&p=LBX07201

LOCKE THE HATCH

12-01-2005, 08:54 AM

Games all_games

great post waltisfuture!

what can you say about this:

that maybe this is all a game...

sawyerkissme

12-01-2005, 08:56 AM

Thanks Waltisfuture! That's great!

PhillyGirl2873

12-01-2005, 09:40 AM

OK. Here are my notes from last night:

Start with a scene of the beach. Jin comes out of a tent, then Sun (awww!). Hurley smiles at them
Sayid is digging Shannon's grave.
Jack is tending to Sawyer. Sawyer asks for "her". He says, "I love her."
Kate is climbing in the trees again looking for fruit. She sees a black horse (reminds me of black stallion)
Flashback - a drunk guy comes up to the house (Wayne, Kate's step-Dad, no Dad)
Kate puts him to bed, leaves the house, gets on a motorcycle, and leaves...house blows up.
Kate goes to a Diner, her mother is a waitress there. Her mother's wrist is bandgaged. Wayne beats her. Kate got an insurance policy out on the house in her mother's name. Leaves her mother with the policy and leaves.
Shannon's funeral service, Kate does not go and Ana does not go.
Kate is tending Sawyer and he stirs, starts to strangle her and says "Why did you kill me?"
Charlie quote: "Sounds like they went all Lord of the flies out there." Seemed like a nod to all the Lord of the Flies discussions here.
Marshall stands behind Kate in line at the bus depot? She's buying a ticket to Tallahassee.
Jin finally get the cuff cut off.
Michael notices Blast Doors in the hatch. They are in case of an explosion. Hmmm.
Locke has Michael and Eko watch the Orientation film.
Kate to Jack, "I'm sorry I'm not perfect like you, I'm sorry I'm not as Good!" (paraphrasing, Lots of "good" talk in this episode remonds me of Goodwins's comment about taking the Good.)
Kate kisses Jack! :kiss:
Locke and company agnowledge the splices in the film. Mr Eko gets up and leaves.
Kate is in Marshal's car. A Black horse runs across the road. The same Black horse, at least looks the same.
Nothing can be typed in until the 4 minute countdown.
Eko tells story - King of Judah, Josiah gave gold in order to rebuild the temple. His secreteary comes back without the gold. He has a book. "we found a book" - ancient book. The Book of Law, the Old Testament. Then Eko gives Locke the book they found in the other hatch. Locke opens it, it was hollowed out and has the splices from the film in it.
Jack is chopping wood. "So Rose's husband is white. Didn't see that one coming." Then Hurley asks Jack why he is mad at Sawyer. Jack says he's not mad, but Hurley mentions transference? from his time in the institution.
Sgt Sam Austen - Kate's Dad, but not really. Kate was scrap booking and found pictures. Her dad was still in Korea when she was 4 months old (need to confirm 4 months). Wayne is her real Dad, Kate asks why he never told her. He said that he knew she would kill him. She asks why he never killed him and her dada says. Murder is not in my heart. She said when she found out Wayne was her father she realized she could never be good. She saw Wayne in Sawyer. Sawyer wakes up.
Eko to Locke - "Don't mistake coincidence for fate."
Sawyer "We've been rescued." Sawyer thinks they've been rescued, but Kate takes him outside the hatch.
Jack takes tequilla to Ana. (How'd he get alcohol? I thought it was all broken during Kate's fall?)
Film splice: even though in isolation in Station 3 must not use computer to try to communicate with the outside world. Could lead to another incident.
Computer: "Hello?"
Mike: "Hello"
Computer: "Who is this?"
Mike: "This is Michael. Who is this?"
Computer: "Dad?"

Hopes this helps.

Oh, and someone found Sayid on the TV when Kate went to visit her Dad. http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=639910#post639910

flora

12-01-2005, 10:11 PM

Whew! After almost two hours straight of typing and organizing (that's twice as long as I spent on the computer typing notes as I watched the show!), I've finally put my notes into the outline. Sorry I'm not including everyone's insights into this outline but I was going crosseyed as I was trying to correspond my own notes to the outline for the past two hours. :sleeping:

- Flashback Character Profiles
Kate had never before been involved with the law and got straight As in school.

- Significance of Lostaway Names
Did anyone hear what Sawyer called Kate when he woke up? ???????

- Religious References
Eko tells Locke the story of Josiah from the Bible. How he wanted to rebuild the Temple because he found “the Law”, the Talmud, the five books of the “Old Testament”.

- Literature, Film & TV References

The Black Stallion. Yes, the Black Stallion. Kate sees this image on the island (well, she saw it in the States too, but…) and at the end when she comes up and “makes friends” with the horse it is just as Alec did in the Black Stallion. What is significant is that in The Black Stallion, Alec and the horse bond after a shipwreck causes them both to be stranded on the same island. Kate, until the end of the episode, views the horse with fear and mistrust, not sure that it is real, but eventually walks up to it and pets its muzzle…on the island!

- Music: Songs of Lost
Does anyone know those Patsy Cline songs?
Country song as "dad" pulls up. Song mentions "Alabama" and "Montana" but I don't know what it is.
Is Patsy Cline also playing at the diner when Kate arrives?
Inside the hatch, Kate puts on Patsy Cline and seems happy to hear it.

- History & World Affairs
Story of the Temple/ Josiah/ idolatry in the Holy Lands before the advent of Judaism and Christianity. . Eko’s story to Locke.

---> Daddy Issues

Kate kills her biological father, believing he was her stepdad. When she catches up to the man she considers her “father”, it is clear that they still have a bond and when she leaves she calls him “Daddy”.

Sam (Daddy) tells Kate he never told her about Wayne being her biological father because he knew she would kill him.
(When she asked why he didn’t kill him himself, he replied, “Because I don’t have murder in my heart.” OUCH!)

Sam gives Kate an hour to get away before he calls the Feds and tells them that she has been there. (Compared to her mother turning her in in the first place!)

When explaining to Wayne/Sawyer why she killed “Him”, she explained: It wasn't that you drove my father away. or the way you looked at me. or because you beat her. it was because you were a part of me and I would never be good...it makes me sick...

The computer asks Michael after he types in his name, “Dad?” Might be Walt…who knows yet?

---> Mommy Issues

Kate kills her father for the sake of her abused mother.
Kate’s mom was the one who turned her in.

---> Black and White Sightings

Gray, in-between black and white: Sayid wears a gray polo shirt at Shannon’s funeral. This is a new shirt for him and reflects his somber mood.

Marshal calls Kate’s mother (and family) “white trash”
Hurley says to Jack, “So, Rose’s husband’s white. Didn’t see that coming.”
In the flashback where she blows up her father, Kate is wearing a white t-shirt. (Janis, I know)

---> Other Light- every light in the house was on as Kate sped away on her motorcycle before the house exploded

- Say What? Repetitious Phrases---> Destiny (Fate)- Locke marvels at the odds of surviving a plane crash, having two halves of the plane’s survivors meet up, having the two pieces of the film meet up. Asks Eko, “What are the odds?”
- Faith-
Eko tells Locke, “Don’t mistake coincidence for faith.”

“Hello”- Locke and Eko said “Hello” last week, this week computer starts by saying, “Hello?”

“What did you do/ What have you done?”
Katherine, what did you do?- Mom
I took care of you, Mom. - Kate

Repeated Gestures-Hurley gave Jin and Sun the thumbs up just as he did to Walt when he boarded the plane

Love-"I love her"- Sawyer to Jack, while feverish, when asking about Kate. (think of all the declarations of love on this show! Jin and Sun, both in flashbacks and before the raft set out; Jack at his wedding)

- Numbers

Jack says that Kate had been watching Sawyer for the previous 24 hours before he sent her out for fruit for him.

Kate is 24 years old in the flashback (her mother asks her for ID when she asks for a beer)

Locke almost mistypes the number “23” as “22” as the alarm gets dangerously close to going off.

Locke explains to Michael that he can only enter the code at certain times due to the “4 minute” rule

Michael asks Locke incredulously, “Alright...so you've been pushing that button every two hours ever since you got here?” (He didn’t say “108 minutes”. Two hours is 120 minutes.)

Kate waited two hours outside her daddy’s Army recruitment office to make sure that the Feds weren’t watching the place.

Kate says she saw pictures of her dad up until four months before she was born.

Locke in his “what are the odds?” spiel says, “Two halves of the plane crash…”

- Accidents

Eko tells Ana-Lucia that everyone realizes that her killing of Shannon was an accident.

Evidently chemistry tells us that combining the marshal and Kate with automobiles causes car accidents. :rolleyes: Florida, Australia...

---> Car Accidents

On the way to Iowa for Kate’s arraignment, the marshal lost control of the car (trying not to hit a deer? Which turned into Kate’s Black Stallion? Or something like that). Kate and the marshal struggled until she pushed him out of the car, saw the horse, and sped away.

---> Fatal Falls and Broken BonesIt wasn’t fatal, but Kate dropped fruit while collecting it for Sawyer and nearly fell out of the tree herself due to not having slept.

->Not broken or fatal, but abuse:
Kate's mom obviously tries to lie about injuries on her arm (?) and Kate stops her- "Don't..."
It is obvious that her husband abuses her.

->Under this category but I’m not sure how:
"You killed me. Why did you kill me!!!!!" Says Sawyer as he tries to choke (grab by neck) Kate...suddenly sitting up slightly and looking wide-awake.

flora

12-01-2005, 10:11 PM

dang thing cut me off!

- Misc. Symbolism
Black horse-
Could be a sign of the Apocalypse
Could be a symbol of sexual desire
Could be Kate’s “Totem Animal” or “Guardian Angel”

Monster Sightings
- Polar Bear Sightings
When Kate asks Charlie if he thinks there could be horses on the island he replies, "Seen polar bears, seen monsters...well, heard monsters."

“Ghosts”/”Haunting”/Whispers of the Dead
Like Sawyer who thought somehow that the boar who was molesting him was the spirit of the man he killed, Kate hears her dead father coming through Sawyer.

Later at Shannon’s grave, Kate asks Sayid, “Do you believe in ghosts, Sayid?”
To which he answers, “I saw Walt in the jungle just before Shannon was shot. Does that make me crazy?”

- The Hatch
Michael examines the computer equipment. Is the first to notice that there are blast doors on the roof of the hatch in the main room.

- Walt's Special Powers?
He can instant message, evidently.

- Miscellaneous Unsolved Mysteries
Was that really Walt on the computer?

Confirmed by missing film piece that using the computer for anything other than entering the numbers may result in another “incident”- still don't know what the "incident" was.

- Mysteries Resolved
“The computer must never be used to…” section that was missing from the Orientation film said that the computer must never be used for anything but entering the code, absolutely positively NO COMMUNICATION!

Kate's original crime was killing her father because he abused her mother.

- Sickness and Health
Kate (and Sun for a little while) nurse Sawyer.
- Lost Food
Kate feeds Sawyer a mashed up (mango? What was that mushy thing?) Tells him that he’d probably like her spoonfeeding him like a baby.
- Lost Hygiene
Kate tells Sawyer he needs a haircut.
- Lost Dogs
Sawyer says, “Son of a Vincent!”
- Lost Cars yes
- Lost Fights yes
- Lost Guns yes
- Locke's Courting Gifts (does sharing the orientation film with Eko count?)
- Happy Hour (Booze on Lost)
Jack walks up to Ana-Lucia who’s sulking all alone with a tiny bottle of tequila and the best substitute for “tonic” he could find.
“Tequila and tonic, that’s your drink, right?” – Jack
“You sure you want to waste that on me?”- Ana-Lucia
“I thought you could use a drink, I know I could.”- Jack

Kate asks her mom for a beer when she goes to the diner after blowing up her father.

-Sex- Jin and Sun came out of the tent looking purdy dang happy…Hurley noticed too! (Heck, maybe Bernard and Rose for that matter- it's not as though we saw a lot of them in this show!)

Not sex, but Kate moved in and kissed Jack. It was a passionate kiss.

- Places the Lostaways Visited or Talked About
Country song mentions Montana and Alabama.
Kate tries to buy tickets to Tallahassee, FL when she is arrested.
Kate and the marshal are driving to Iowa when they have a car accident.
Kate’s dad was stationed in Korea for a time.

- Lostaways & Law Enforcement
Uh…the entire flashback of this episode!!!

- Weird Props and Recurring Imagery
Kate collecting fruit up in a tree resembles the beginning of WTCMB where she was up in a tree collecting fruit. Are there any other Lostaways who climb trees?
-->Handcuffs
Michael uses tools inside the hatch to finally get that handcuff of Jin! (Poetic, since it’s because of Michael that Jin has had that thing on his arm this entire time!)
Kate wasn’t handcuffed when she was in the accident with the marshal? (Check…otherwise it would have been hard to fight him, push him out of the car, and drive away)
-->Rain, Water, Death and Violence
Wasn’t it raining when the marshal and Kate had the accident on the way to Iowa?

Parallel Plots & Recurring Themes
--> Broken Families
Kate accused her biological father of pushing her Daddy (in reality, her stepdad) away. But Sgt. Austin says that her mother always really loved him.

--> Character Parallels
When Jack was seeing his dead father walking on the island he spoke to Locke for a second opinion. Locke said that as a doctor, what would he tell a person who is hallucinating after getting almost no sleep. / In this episode Kate drops fruit up in the tree, nearly falls herself, sees a black horse that she’s not sure is there and tells Sawyer that she saw it and “That’s what you get when you don’t sleep.”

“Saint Jack”/ worthiness/self worth/self esteem[U]
- Kate tells Jack, “I’m sorry that I am not as good as you.” (Recall Sawyer’s self loathing.)

Ana-Lucia when Jack brings her tequila and tonic first asks, “You sure you want to waste that on me?” and then “Are you going to try to convince me that everyone doesn’t hate me?”

[U]The Marshal and Kate in transit
On the flight the marshal tells Kate it’s a long flight and asks if she wants anything to drink though she’s obviously uncomfortable with being shackled and everything!
On the way to Iowa for Kate’s arraignment, the marshal asks Kate if she is comfortable because it is a long drive.

The Marshal and Car Wrecks- The Marshal chasing Kate in the farmer’s truck caused an accident in Australia. In Kate’s flashback they were both in an accident on the way to Iowa.

Chopping wood - Hurley comments to Jack that Sawyer used to come to the same spot to chop wood and now Jack was there, looking bothered, chopping wood. Hurley tells him it’s transference.

Shared “hallucinations”?-After claiming that she had seen Walt and having no one believe her, Shannon goes off searching for him. Ironically in the end, it was Sayid who saw him first before she did and before she made the fatal mistake of chasing him. / at the end of “WKD”, Sawyer sees the black horse before Kate does. He says, “Maybe you ought to take me back inside.”

Misc. Ana-Lucia, Jack, and tequila and tonic. The second time we've seen that.

Funeral rites:

Sayid dug Shannon's grave with a plank of wood.
Shannon’s funeral.
Sayid’s elegy: "Shannon and I were strangers. We would never have met were it... We would never have spoken. But we did meet. We did speak. At least... (Locke smiles slightly)...I loved her. "
Sayid cries.
Jack adds dirt to her- "May she rest in peace".
Next, Locke, then Sun and Claire.

Before the funeral, Eko walks up to Ana-Lucia who is sitting by herself, digging or something. (is this a parallel to Sayid's digging the grave?)
I'm going to go to the funeral.- Eko
I don't think I'm going to make it. – Ana-Lucia
I think most of them realize it was an accident. -Eko
A-L says nothing...

Later Charlie catches up to Kate after the funeral:
"You missed Shannon's funeral. A couple of them came, not her..." (ref. to A-L)

Hope of rescue:
The signal fires at Camp Lostaway are still burning.

When Sawyer wakes up and sees he’s in a bunk bed he asks: Are we saved?
Kate: No, Sawyer, not yet.
Sawyer- You've got to be kidding. C'mon, we've been rescued.
Upon discovering that they’re still on the island, Sawyer says, “Son of a Vincent.” (Ha ha!) “Here I thought you were yanking my chain!"

:scooter: <-look, it's Kate!

:wavey: bye for now!

flora

12-01-2005, 10:13 PM

Damn! I forgot that Sayid was on the tv in the Army recruitment office...

Just like Hurley was in the background in Jin's flashback.

Though everyone got that one...except me, the silly typist who doesn't keep her eyes on the dumb tv! That's why they call it watching television, silly wabbit! Derf!

flora

12-01-2005, 10:15 PM

Oops...add to "booze": Kate's dad was an alcoholic.

flora

12-01-2005, 10:26 PM

Damn. Now it's been almost two and a half hours and I'm still picking up missing pieces.

Insurance policy- Kate took out a policy in her mother's name (but surely arson and murder wouldn't be covered, it couldn't be!)

Beds-
Sawyer realizes he is in a bunk bed.

Kate's mom says, "I've made my bed."
Kate says: "Your bed is gone, Mom."

Damn...am I the only one who hasn't noticed that "beeeeyotch" is being changed to "Vincent" on the board now?

flora

12-01-2005, 10:44 PM

Crap!

Add one more to the good/bad/self loathing category (can't believe I forgot it!)
It wasn't that you drove my father away. or the way you looked at me. or because you beat her. it was because you were a part of me and I would never be good...it makes me sick...

shootfire

12-02-2005, 01:30 AM

- Religious References
Eko tells Locke the story of Josiah from the Bible. How he wanted to rebuild the Temple because he found “the Law”, the Talmud, the five books of the “Old Testament”.

Actually it's not Talmud. The Talmud was a much later work, which includes rabbinic discussions of the law. It is generally accepted that The Book of the Law is the source for most of the body of Deuteronomy, not the entire Old Testament AFAIK. The Pentateuch, like the Torah, is also called The Law. One might be able to stretch it to say the Book of the Law is the source of the Pentateuch, the first five chapters of the Bible. It just depends on whether you believed in the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch/The Book of the Law. It's a source of controversy among Biblical scholars.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_tora.htm

PhillyGirl2873

12-02-2005, 10:53 AM

Sorry, a little off topic, but Flora, you are cracking me up. :laugh:

Sam G

12-02-2005, 12:05 PM

http://wigantonight.co.uk/images/screen2.jpeg
http://wigantonight.co.uk/images/screen.jpeg Thanks to AlexJ

The shelves on the way into Wayne and Diane's house. Looks like a picture of Kate riding a statue of a horse and a trophy. Picture of Diane.

There is also a picture on the nightstand in Wayne's bedroom.

I haven't had time to read through the list but will do that today.

PhillyGirl2873

12-02-2005, 12:20 PM

Now I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but I was under the impression that Kate owned the house. Is that right? Or did I make a mistake?

Sam G

12-02-2005, 04:28 PM

No I don't think she owned the house but she did buy the policy for her mother.

flora

12-02-2005, 04:37 PM

Actually it's not Talmud. The Talmud was a much later work, which includes rabbinic discussions of the law. It is generally accepted that The Book of the Law is the source for most of the body of Deuteronomy, not the entire Old Testament AFAIK. The Pentateuch, like the Torah, is also called The Law. One might be able to stretch it to say the Book of the Law is the source of the Pentateuch, the first five chapters of the Bible. It just depends on whether you believed in the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch/The Book of the Law. It's a source of controversy among Biblical scholars.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_tora.htm

Yes, you're right. I always get the Talmud and the Pentateuch messed up in my mind. D'oh!:confused:

What's worse is that I meant to say "Torah".

I need to lay off the crack.

scoobie

12-02-2005, 04:37 PM

I'm confused as to the order of events of Kate's life. She first killed the man who turned out to be her real father, then she escaped and went on the lam. When did she come home to see her mother, rob the bank, finally get caught for the last time in Australia? I'm not clear on what happened when.
Thanks.

flora

12-02-2005, 04:49 PM

Kate's flashback order (I think)
1. What Kate Did
2. Born To Run
3. Whatever the Case May Be
4. (can't remember title off the top of my head, but it was the very first one- in Australia) Tabula Rasa! Duh...I can't believe I forgot that!
so-
1. WKD- killed her father, got arrested for the first time, went on the run
2. BTR- came back to visit her dying mother, accidently gets Tom killed, but has to run off before she grabs his little toy plane
3. WTCMB- Kate finds the Halliburton case with the guns and her "personal effects"- ie, the little toy plane
4. TR- Kate is caught in Australia
5. (bonus)- Exodus- Kate and the marshal in airport in Sydney

TabbyRasa

12-02-2005, 04:52 PM

flora

12-02-2005, 05:11 PM

If that's true, then we're being shown flashbacks in reverse order?

In Kate's case, yes, and in the case of most of the other ones who have had more than one flashback, I guess. It seems that early last season they focused on the flashback that showed what the character (Kate, Jack, Locke, Charlie, Michael and later Hurley) were doing in Australia, but Sawyer and Sayid's first flashbacks were much further back and it wasn't until their second flashback shows that we saw what they were doing in Australia. I think they got tired of that formula and wanted to show some other aspects of the characters' lives other than "why were they on the plane?" to leave some mystery for some people. Even our first "tailie" to get a flashback, A-L, had a more distant flashback because it didn't explain why she was in Australia either. So it looks like for the most part they started going forward back, but it might just be an accidental coincidence because it's not uniform among all the characters' flashbacks.

waltisfuture

12-02-2005, 05:26 PM

great post waltisfuture!

what can you say about this:

that maybe this is all a game...

Like a lot of the info on here, it is other posters stuff that I just copy and paste here. That excellent list is credited to the poster Games all_games

Actually it's not Talmud. The Talmud was a much later work, which includes rabbinic discussions of the law. It is generally accepted that The Book of the Law is the source for most of the body of Deuteronomy, not the entire Old Testament AFAIK. The Pentateuch, like the Torah, is also called The Law. One might be able to stretch it to say the Book of the Law is the source of the Pentateuch, the first five chapters of the Bible. It just depends on whether you believed in the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch/The Book of the Law. It's a source of controversy among Biblical scholars.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_tora.htm

Thanks shootfire.

http://wigantonight.co.uk/images/screen2.jpeg
http://wigantonight.co.uk/images/screen.jpeg Thanks to AlexJ

The shelves on the way into Wayne and Diane's house. Looks like a picture of Kate riding a statue of a horse and a trophy. Picture of Diane.

There is also a picture on the nightstand in Wayne's bedroom.

I haven't had time to read through the list but will do that today.

That's the ticket. I cruised all the caps last night and they only have the one of Kates mom, and I knew I saw more of them. It definately looks like Kate on the horse, and I love the little horsey statues.

Kate had to be married for the short period of time before she was 24........killed her hubby/physically abused him

Did Desmond have more film in the book he took?

Geoff27
A forum search for "font" didn't seem to turn up what I was looking for, so...

When Michael is typing his "hello" conversation on the hatch computer, the font that the letters appear in is absolutely not a typeface that would be available on an ancient Apple. Ancient Apples didn't have different fonts, let alone Times New Roman complete with serifs. As far as I know, the monitors simply weren't capable of displaying anything other than the generic computer-font-- which certainly wasn't as fancy as Times.

Of course this probably doesn't mean anything, but I felt like nit-picking it anyhow. The prop people couldn't get their hands on a real Apple II monitor for the closeups? Weird.
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=1006

Pioner I don't think the computer is supposed to actually be a mac. Is just an old computer.
Also, if you look close, the letters come out very smoothly, like they were appearing from behind a curtain, and I don't think and old mac could do that. Those animations are surely done with a modern computer, just with an old look. Screenshot:
http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=da8km.jpg
I didn't notice that, and it definately looks hinky in that cap. Can anyone say "Ghost in the Machine" There are way too many good theories floating around right now, so I'm going to post the hightlights and we'll have one place to come back to, to see if we can fit it all together.

Me Black Horse. Chinese Calendar

Horse years are notorious historical turning points. Turbulent, untamed, and chaotic. The Yang force is at it’s peak during Horse years, requiring action and movement. The Horse is accompanied by Fire, this can bring the Water element of 2002 to boil. Horse years demand independence and freedom . The Horse prefers to be in the midst of social activities, debates and company.

This would defiantly describe Kate and what we saw last night

frayadjacent My take is the horse seems to be helping Kate and is on her side. It possibly represents Kate's freedom, both literally and symbolically. It helped her get free from the marshall by causing the car crash. On the island it helped her to let go of the pain of killing her father. It is very similar to Sawyer's boar.

black horse/white polar bear

ADD to NUMMBERS LIST jshamoon Did you guys not realize that 51 backwards is 15!!! Add that to the certain someone who SPEAKS backwards and you get your answer to who it was on the other end...

waltisfuture

12-02-2005, 05:36 PM

Map of states to figure out where Kate was when the Marshal caught her.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/health/0202/map.us.rash/map.us.rash.gif
Although it is sometimes called the "Corn State," Iowa really is a breadbasket for the U.S., with 90 percent of its land devoted to farming. The main products are corn and hogs. Named for the Iowa River, which was named for the Iowa, or Ioway, Indians, Iowa joined the Union in 1846 as the 29th state. The wild rose is the state flower and the capital is Des Moines.

Note: breadbasket is a part of the game Operation

KateAustin

Aliases used:
Maggie (During Bank Robbery)
Kate Ryan, Katherine Ryan
Annie (Australia)
Joan Hart (letter at motel in Born to Run .)

When the Marshal asked Kate if she was visiting family in Tallahassee, maybe she was, and one of these last names will come into play later on.

Diary Girl (from the ABC diary) mentions a trial, kidnapping, nightmares, Louisiana, being a victim and being in the hospital. The diary is not canon, but this is interesting.

Day 17 (Con't)
the panic going through the camp about Claire (the pregnant lady) and Charlie - They've been kidnapped! Everybody is pointing the finger at this creepy guy named Ethan, but nobody really knows what the hell is going on. I spent most of the day looking for them with Michael and a few of the others, but we didn't have any luck. I knew there was something wrong with this group and now I have to worry what some sicko is doing to Claire. God, it's like the nightmare is starting all over again! You can't tell me that I survived that week in Louisiana to be thrown back into this again. I told myself every single day in the hospital that all I had to do was stay alive. Just survive and make it to the trial and the rest of my life would be perfect - that's what this trip was supposed to be about!
I'll tell you one thing: I'm not going to be a victim. Not again ... No way! From here on out, I'm taking care of myself and if anyone else tries to pull anything, I'm going to be ready for them.

HAE Of course Jack is angrey at Sawyer. Jack is pissed at Sawyer for winning over Kate (or at least Kate's concern) and to add insult to his lost status in the eyes of Kate, he also has to perform Sawyer's task of wood splitting.

Hurley had great insight.

Re: transference.........I also posted that maybe Hurley's friend Johnny (who is very skinny) may have had the eating disorder (Hurling)

belshep The reason I think the marshall is part of Kate's transference is that when Sawyer was mumbling "where is she?", it was almost identical to the scenes with the marshall doing the same thing when he was delirious - it was even shot similarly.

And the scenes of the car accident, when the marshall is knocked out and Kate fumbles in his pocket for the handcuff keys - very, very similar to the scenes of her doing the same thing on the plane.

So I think there are visual connections between what happened with the marshall and what happened/happens on the island. And because the horse shows up when she's with the marshall, I just think it's possibly related to him.

Stephen Stills does say "Love the one you're with". This is a song from my youth, and it seems to fit with Sayid. He can't be with Nadia so he commits his love to Shannon, and maybe someone else in the future?

flora

12-02-2005, 05:40 PM

I don't think it's a given that Kate was married before she was 24. She may have married on her 18th birthday just to get out of the house...or she may have married someone after she was on the run in order to create a 'real' alias and alibi/cover.

waltisfuture

12-02-2005, 05:42 PM

Cap of Kate's mom? (younger) and what could be a horse riding cup
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=73

teddy bear and accordian magnets like on Toms fridge
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=75

2 blue books in Hatch - 1 with a ribbon on it
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=151

Waynes belt buckle with a long horned steer on it
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=76

Dianes black wrist band on her left
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=108

Box behind Kate in the Hatch
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=165
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=181

Heart on Shannons necklace?
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=517
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=519
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=520

Blindfolded Shroud for Shannon
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=204

Bookshelf behind pingpong table
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=275
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=276

77661 on timer. This is probably just where the timer was at when the shot was taken and means nothing.
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=283

Blue Bus Coach Lines
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=319

Calendar in bus depot has yellow sticky notes over the year. LOL
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=322
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=333
Note: picture in the hallway
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=336

What's with the giant can opener and funky box on the table?
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=600

Kate and that darn plane??? This is at the end of the caps, but I don't recall seeing this during the show???
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=1021

Imperial Oven Kitchen island
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=856

TabbyRasa

12-02-2005, 05:42 PM

flora...thanks for responding about the flashback eps!

flora

12-02-2005, 05:44 PM

Hey guys! Six more posts and I'm at 2400! (Same week "24" is mentioned so many times...coincidence, or island mystery- you decide!)

Too long staring at too many details!

flora

12-02-2005, 05:51 PM

waltisfuture

12-02-2005, 05:55 PM

http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/What_Kate_Did_Lost.htm

CHARLIE: Oh, right. A few of them came -- the new people. Not her -- the one who killed Shannon -- that would have been a bit awkward. They seem to have had a rough time of it. It looks like they went bloody Lord of the Flies out there.

[Kate stops and stares into the distance] You haven't listened to a word I've said.

CHARLIE: A little while ago in the jungle. She was acting kind of barmy, asking me about horses on the island.

KATE: Please, this place is crazy -- it's just -- I can't -- it's driving me nuts.

THE FILM: From the moment the alarm sounds you will have 4 minutes to enter the code into the microcomputer processor [splice] induction into the program. When the alarm sounds, either you or your partner must input the code. It is highly recommended that you and your partner take alternating shifts. In this manner you will stay as fresh and alert [splice] utmost importance that when the alarm sounds the code be entered correctly, and in a timely fashion. Do not attempt to use the computer [splice] for anything [splice]. Congratulations, until your replacements arrive, the future of the project is in your hands. On behalf of the DeGroots, Alvar Hanso and all of us at the Dharma Initiative, thank you. Namaste. And good luck.

The spliced in section

THE FILM: When the alarm sounds, either you or your partner must input the code. It is highly recommended that you and your partner take alternating shifts. In this manner you will stay as fresh and alert [splice] utmost importance that when the alarm sounds the code be entered correctly, and in a timely fashion. Do not attempt to use the computer [splice] for anything else other than the entering of the code. This is its only function. The isolation that attends the duties associated with Station 3 may tempt you to try and utilize the computer for communication with the outside world. This is strictly forbidden. Attempting to use the computer in this manner will compromise the integrity of the project and worse, could lead to another incident. I repeat, do not use the computer for anything other than entering the code. Congratulations, until your replacements arrive, the future of the project is in your hands. On behalf of the DeGroots, Alvar Hanso and all of us at the Dharma Initiative, thank you. Namaste. And good luck.

[Michael hears a bing sound. He looks at the timer which has stopped at 51:00. He hears the bing sound again. He looks at the monitor which displays a word.]

MONITOR: Hello?

MICHAEL: Alright, so you've been pushing that button every 2 hours since you got down here.
LOCKE: That's right.
MICHAEL: How does that even work?
LOCKE: I set up 2 person shifts -- 6 hours -- everyone's on the roster.
MICHAEL: Don't they want to know why?
LOCKE: I think the film's pretty self-explanatory.
MICHAEL: Really? All I heard was something about electro-magnets and an incident. What about all the missing pieces?
LOCKE: Oh, you mean the splices? Yeah, just a frame here and there, I think -- nothing important. [to Eko] What do you think? About the film -- what do you think?

[Eko doesn't say anything, but gets up and leaves.]

KATE: Because I'm going crazy. Do you believe in ghosts, Sayid?
SAYID: I saw Walt in the jungle just before Shannon was shot. Does that make me crazy?

[FLASHBACK to Kate in handcuffs in a car with the Marshal on a rainy night.]

MARSHAL: It's a long drive back to the arraignment, you comfy [he laughs]? Why now?
KATE: What?
MARSHAL: Nice, corn fed farm girl like yourself -- no history of violence, straight A's, no record, couple of speeding tickets -- just got to wonder, why'd you kill him now? [Kate doesn't respond] Oh, right, yeah, don't tell me. You wouldn't want to incriminate yourself, not after you were so smart planning it. That jury back in Iowa sure ain't going to get hung up on pre-meditation. And a gas leak, come on, it's amateur hour from top to bottom.
KATE: Sounds like you've got it all figured out.
MARSHAL: I do have you all figured out.
KATE: You don't know anything about me.
MARSHAL: White trash mom divorces dad, starts up with some guy who's a drinker. He knocks her around a little bit, she marries him, because, you know, that's what happens. And then this drunk, this Wayne, he moves into your house, and you get to lay there every night and listen to him doing your mom right there in daddy's old bedroom. And even that wouldn't be so bad if he didn't beat her up all the time. But she loves him. She defends him. If that don't make a person want to kill somebody I don't know what does. But the question is now, why now? Why after all these years did you just decide to blow poor Wayne up? He come knocking on your door late at night?
KATE: He never touched me.

[Locke walks toward the kitchen and finds Eko sitting at the table.]
LOCKE: Hello again.
EKO: Hello. I have something I think you should see. If you don't mind, I will begin at the beginning. Long before Christ the king of Judah was a man named Josiah.
LOCKE:Boy when you say beginning, you mean beginning.
EKO: At that time the temple where the people worshipped was in ruin. And so the people worshipped idols, false gods. And so the kingdom was in disarray. Josiah, since he was a good king, sent his secretary to the treasury and said: "We must rebuild the temple. Give all of the gold to the workers so that this will be done." But when the secretary returned, he had no gold. And when Josiah asked why this was the secretary replied, "We found a book." Do you know this story?
LOCKE: No, I'm afraid I don't.
EKO: What the secretary had found was an ancient book -- the Book of Law. You may know it as the Old Testament. And it was with that ancient book, not with the gold, that Josiah rebuilt the temple. On the other side of the island we found a place much like this, and in this place we found a book. [Eko unwraps the book and pushes it toward Locke] I believe what's inside there will be of great value to you.

[Locke opens the book. A square has been cut out, and inside is a piece of film.]

[Jack chopping wood, as Hurley approaches.]
HURLEY: Hey. [Jack doesn't answer] So, Rose's husband's white, didn't see that one coming.
JACK: Is there something you need, Hurley?
HURLEY: No, just taking a walk, thought I'd say hey. Who's taking care of Sawyer?
JACK: Sun is.
HURLEY: So, you're like, mad at him?
JACK: [laughing]: Why would I be mad at Sawyer?
HURLEY:Maybe because he's the one that always comes down here and chops wood, and now you are? It's like, transference.
JACK: What are you a shrink now?
HURLEY: Well, that's what they call it in the mental hospital.
JACK: I'm not mad at anyone.

KATE: I was making a scrapbook -- a surprise for your birthday. So I called one of your COs to get some pictures of you in uniform. The pictures that he sent me had dates on the back -- photos of you in Korea up until 4 months before I was born. Why didn't you tell me that Wayne was my father? Why?
SAM AUSTEN: I didn't tell you because I knew you'd kill him. And your mother loved him. You were 5 years old. I wanted to take you along with me. She wouldn't let me.
KATE: So why didn't you kill him?
SAM AUSTEN:Because I don't have murder in my heart. I'm going to have to call them.
KATE: Can I have an hour?

[He nods, and Kate hugs him.]

KATE: Can you hear me? Sawyer? Wayne? [Sawyer stirs] I'm probably crazy and this doesn't matter, but maybe you're in there somehow. But you asked me a question. You asked me why I -- why I did it. It wasn't because you drove my father away, or the way you looked at me, or because you beat her. It's because I hated that you were a part of me -- that I would never be good. That I would never have anything good. And every time that I look at Sawyer -- every time I feel something for him -- I see you, Wayne. It makes me sick.
SAWYER: That's about the sweetest thing I've ever heard.
KATE: Sawyer?
SAWYER: Who the hell's Wayne? [he opens his eyes] I'm in a bunk-bed?

[Kate turns to see the black horse.]

KATE: You see that?
SAWYER: If you mean the big *** horse standing in the middle of the jungle, then yeah.
[Kate approaches the horse and nuzzles it before it walks away.]
SAWYER: Do you know that horse, Freckles?
KATE: Yeah, I do.

ANA: You sure you want to waste that on me?
JACK: Figured you could use a drink. I know I could.
ANA:Are you going to try to convince me that everyone here doesn't hate me?
JACK: Only if you're going to try to convince me that every woman in the world's not crazy.

waltisfuture

12-02-2005, 05:59 PM

Someone caught on to the brand of cigarettes that the marshal was smoking! (Man...get a life! Yeah...follow my example...sure!)

Anyway, get this: they're called "Rosetta".
Rosetta = allusion to "Rosetta stone", the tablet that made it possible for archaeologists to finally decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics after centuries of not being able to. The Rosetta Stone had the same script written in several languages on it enabling scholars to be able to compare the known languages (Ancient Greek, whatever) with ancient Egyptian.

In other words...a thingy that 'unlocks' the mystery.

ROSETTA STONE SITES

http://www.rosetta.com/RosettaStone.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/rosetta.html
http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/egypt/hieroglyphics/rosettastone.html
Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone
The Rosetta Project
http://www.rosettaproject.org/live

Tigrrr Did anyone notice the brand of cigs the Marshall was smoking? I saw 'Rosetta'. Is it some random name or is there a significance? I looked up 'Rosetta Stone' in wikipedia and it was all talk about King Ptolemy, taxes, temples, a treasurer. Hmmm... Didn't Mr Eko mention something about a treasurer?

czardingus Have to give this some thought...this could be a BIG hint because of what the Rosetta stone signifies. It unlocked ancient Egyptian writings for translations, because it had the same text in several languages - including Egyptian. Prior to this, a lot of Egyptian history, religious belief, and ritual was unknowable. Much like the island itself, Egypt's mysteries were in plain sight, but unfathomable.

TabbyRasa, I read your post re: the flashbacks out of order, and added it to my list of things to look into to. Good call!!

waltisfuture

12-02-2005, 06:07 PM

Books in Hatch - TASG LILY JO_M.........IIASC LEXYJOUM.........217 (ING)

Just my guesses...........I need help on these ones

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=155

Books in Hatch bible looking book.........ING (217).......The Advocate Devil..........Green book.........3 more

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=156
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=166
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=173
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=174

Redshirt jewelry

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=199
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=200
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=201
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=202

Charlie's necklace

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=207
Heart on Shannons necklace?
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=517
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=519
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=520

Film strip Eko gave Locke

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&meta=lastup&cat=0&pos=384

I found this on Ebay........it's a book on tape

http://cgi.ebay.ca/AUDIOBOOK-The-Advocates-Devil-by-Alan-M-Dershowitz_W0QQitemZ6991267893QQcategoryZ29792QQrd Z1QQcmdZViewItem

The Devils Advocate was a movie, and here is Wikipedia's explanation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_Advocate

waltisfuture

12-02-2005, 06:18 PM

Lost_Addiction_UK Perhaps the incident was the Others attacking the hatch - someone tried to communicate with another computer in a hatch, except the hatch had been taken over by the Others and the Others pretended to be from the Dharma to gather information about who was in the Swan station, and then attack/kidnap from it once they knew enough. After this "incident", blast doors and guns were provided to the swan station for protection, the residents were warned, banned from communicating on the computer. Typing in the numbers every 108 minutes could be to stop the blast doors from shutting. Just think - the others would not know the code, so if they took over the station, and the code was not entered, the doors shut them in, preventing them from jeopardizing the rest of the dharma team/project. This is also why the computer can not be used for communication - incase a scientist reveals to the others the 4,8,15,16,23,42 code and they could have free roam of the hatches on the island without being stopped.

At the moment, i think the others could be planning another go at taking over the hatch. They know new people are on the island, they kidnapped a child, and are using the facade of walt to gain information of the hatch from Michael to take it over. Since they know the new people are on the island, they are initiating communication again, in the chance that someone who has not seen the video will reply and fall for their trap, in this case Michael.

sandyg2 Here is my theory on the Incident....

The Incident was an uprising amongst the 2 employees in station 3, Kelvin and his partner. The partner was trying to contact the outside world using the computer and Kelvin eliminated him, which was the incident. Kelvin then spliced the film and hid it in his bible. After the incident, Kelvin was given Desmond by the Hanso Foundation because they had sponsored his race around the world. In order to keep Desmond from finding the spliced film, he hid the bible in the Arrow Station.

wrreckage I like the idea of the computer being able to tap into peoples thoughts or emotions. Thats a good one, I hadn't thought of it before. It would make sense considering that Candle said in the film that using it to contact the outside world could result in another "incident". It also makes me wonder what is going to happen now that Michael has apparently used the computer to (apparently) contact Walt. Especially considering that Walt is already responsible for several incidents himself. Could there be unforseen repercussions from using the computer to (ostensibly) tap into Walt's mind, which is already obviously somehow special or different?

Concerning the animals, I have another theory. We know that Dharma (and also Karma) are terms that are related to Hindu philosophy, and that the Hindi belive in reincarnation. I think that possibly figures from the castaways pasts, people from their pasts who have unresolved issues with the castaways, are being reincarnated as animals on the island. This would explain the Sawyers Boar (representing the man he killed in austraila), Kates Horse (wayne), and possibly even Walt's Polar Bears, and maybe the dissapearance of Jack's dad's body from the coffin. I suspect we may see an animal analogue of Jack's dad on the island, an that he may have to resolve his underlying issues with his father in the same way that sawyer and kate had to get past their unresolved issues with the people they killed. In a way, Jack was partially responsible for his dad's death.

Relatedly, there obviously must be another hatch or hatches on the island, because Walt is obviously using a computer terminal to talk with Michael (or is he?). Perhaps the monster / security system is there to guard the hatches against intruders. I think the castaways were able to get into desmond's hatch because the electromagnetic properties of that part of the island prohibit the monster from guarding that area. And the Tailies were able to enter their hatch because it had been abandoned and no longer needed to be protected.
AND
I have to speculate that maybe the Dharma Initiative Higher-ups released the "monster" to prevent outside interference with the project (remember - the monster was referred to as a "security system" by Rousseau, and she said that it was obviously put in place to protect something. I think it was put in place to maintain the integrity of the project by eliminating outside threats or interferences. And remember, it probably isn't a monster at all. When it grabbed Locke by the legs and tried to drag him into the hole, there was a distinct mechanical sound that was reminescent of a chain being cranked on a winch.

SMoK9977
I was discussing this with my husband last night and we collectivally think that the incident was more of a chain reaction causing several smaller incidences with each experiment going on on that island.

We know from the web site that there were several experiments going on. Parapsychology, Zoology, Electromagnetism etc. What if the electromagnet experiment was the catalist? Maybe the electromagnet caused part of the psychology experment to get kind of crossed with other experiments?

Don't modern day "Ghost Hunters" measure different magnetic and engergy fields when they're investigating ghost sitings?

What if the computer, being so close to the source of the electromagnetic field is actually able to pull in thoughts from other people on the island? When they say don't use the computer to contact anybody, I don't think they meant that it can be used like an internet to connected to anybody, but can be used as a physical interface with somebody's thoughts.

This could also explain how there seem to be manifistations of people's thoughts appearing on the island... Jack's father, Kate's horse, Sawyers quote from Frank, Walt's polar bear, etc.

Locke seems to have been able to subconciously tap into this force, but maybe the computer is a physical link to it.

waltisfuture

12-02-2005, 06:26 PM

Last but certainly not least. I numbered them to make it easy to answer you.

flora

1- Lost Dogs
Sawyer says, "Son of a Vincent!"
- Lost Cars yes
- Lost Fights yes
- Lost Guns yes
- Locke's Courting Gifts (does sharing the orientation film with Eko count?)

2- Weird Props and Recurring Imagery
Kate collecting fruit up in a tree resembles the beginning of WTCMB where she was up in a tree collecting fruit. Are there any other Lostaways who climb trees?

3-->Handcuffs
Michael uses tools inside the hatch to finally get that handcuff of Jin! (Poetic, since it’s because of Michael that Jin has had that thing on his arm this entire time!)
Kate wasn’t handcuffed when she was in the accident with the marshal? (Check…otherwise it would have been hard to fight him, push him out of the car, and drive away)

4-->Rain, Water, Death and Violence
Wasn’t it raining when the marshal and Kate had the accident on the way to Iowa?

Parallel Plots & Recurring Themes
5--> Broken Families
Kate accused her biological father of pushing her Daddy (in reality, her stepdad) away. But Sgt. Austin says that her mother always really loved him.

6--> Character Parallels
When Jack was seeing his dead father walking on the island he spoke to Locke for a second opinion. Locke said that as a doctor, what would he tell a person who is hallucinating after getting almost no sleep. / In this episode Kate drops fruit up in the tree, nearly falls herself, sees a black horse that she’s not sure is there and tells Sawyer that she saw it and "That’s what you get when you don’t sleep."

7 Shared "hallucinations"?-After claiming that she had seen Walt and having no one believe her, Shannon goes off searching for him. Ironically in the end, it was Sayid who saw him first before she did and before she made the fatal mistake of chasing him. / at the end of "WKD", Sawyer sees the black horse before Kate does. He says, "Maybe you ought to take me back inside."

8- Accidents

Eko tells Ana-Lucia that everyone realizes that her killing of Shannon was an accident.

Evidently chemistry tells us that combining the marshal and Kate with automobiles causes car accidents. Florida, Australia...

9---> Car Accidents

On the way to Iowa for Kate’s arraignment, the marshal lost control of the car (trying not to hit a deer? Which turned into Kate’s Black Stallion? Or something like that). Kate and the marshal struggled until she pushed him out of the car, saw the horse, and sped away.

1 - Son of a Vincent = Hilarious
I never thought of Locke's courting gifts.......GOOD ONE

2 - I read posts re: Charlie in a tree, but I don't recall that........ANYONE??

3 - Locke cut off Jin's handcuffs with a big ??
Kate reached into the Marshal's pocket and got the keys out. A few posts back, I copied someones post re: parallel to her doing it on the plane too

4 - I believe it was

5 - I think Sam Austen really loved Diane. So much so that he let her have her dysfunctional life and keep Kate?

6 - AWESOME CATCH

7 - DITTO TO #6 :biggrin:

8 - LOL on the chemistry lesson

9 - Horse caused the accident, not a deer as I posted earlier. BIG MISTAKE ON MY PART

coupons

12-02-2005, 06:44 PM

waltisfuture

12-02-2005, 07:21 PM

cool catch on the 51 backwards
Why are most taking it for a fact that Wayne is her father? The 'mother' and Sam lied to her for 24 years, Math only proved (if there was no leave) that Sam was not her father.
Do you really think someone of the caliber of Wayne would let Kate go visiting (as she would have had to have been older than 5 for tracking) someone she called 'dad' if he knew she was his? The 'mother' loved Wayne so much she chose to drag Kate through her abusive life with her. Why wouldn't she share that it was their child if it was?

I'm a little unsure of all that too. I have a feeling there is more to her story than we've seen, so I'm keeping an open mind on the 'Wayne is her father' thing too. Can we believe anything about Kate or what she says?? It's getting quite confusing, but in a good way. :biggrin:

More transcripts from the same site as before

DIANE: You want to ride around on that on that deathtrap of yours without a helmet -- I'm not going to help your cause by getting you drunk.

JACK: Keep him hydrated -- maybe mash up some of that fruit and see if you can get him to eat it. And everybody'll be at the beach so don't forget the button.

She left the button and Saywer

LOCKE: What happened?
JACK: I don't know.
LOCKE: Well, you said...
JACK: I don't know, John.
LOCKE: Well, where's Kate?

What is John referring to here??? What did Jack say???

MARSHAL: Tallahassee? I spent a week in Tallahassee one night. It's all strip malls and waffle houses. What's a pretty girl like you going to do down in Tallahassee?
KATE: I'm sure I'll find something.
MARSHAL: I'll bet you've got family down there, huh?
KATE: Actually, I'm just visiting.

[Locke using bolt cutters to cut the handcuff off of Jin's wrist.]
JIN [shaking Locke's hand]: Thank you.
LOCKE: Free at last, huh?

Bible page

http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=645

2 Chronicles 5:4 - 6:1-18

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%205:4-6:18&version=31

Through the hole you see the page 2Kings 25:20-26 and Jehoiachin Released 2Kings 27-30

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2019-30&version=31

I think I missed some of these numbers

LOCKE: 4, 8, 15, 16, 22. Gah. [He hits the backspace key as there are 5 seconds left on the countdown] 23, 42.
[The timer resets. Jack lifts Sawyer back into the bed.]

shootfire

12-03-2005, 01:37 AM

History Reference

When Locke cut the handcuff off Jin's wrist he said "Free at last." I believe this is a reference to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s famous "I Have a Dream" speech.

When we let freedom ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

http://www.mecca.org/~crights/dream.html

http://www.negrospirituals.com/news-song/free_at_last_from.htm

TabbyRasa

12-03-2005, 03:26 AM

I noticed a couple more things:

When Kate walked out of Wayne's house, on her way to the bike, there was an owl hooting ( who...who... ), not sure sure how many times. There was also a very large beautiful tree in front of the house... 3 feet in diameter or so.

When Kate left the diner, her mother asked her "What did you do?", and "Kathryn,
what did you do?" (twice). Obviously related to the epi's title.

Her fake-dad Sam called her "Katie".

waltisfuture

12-03-2005, 07:55 PM

History Reference

When Locke cut the handcuff off Jin's wrist he said "Free at last." I believe this is a reference to Martin Luther King, Jr.'s famous "I Have a Dream" speech.

http://www.mecca.org/~crights/dream.html

http://www.negrospirituals.com/news-song/free_at_last_from.htm

Love it. Wasn't it your post I just read that said her faux dad Sam and mom Diane = Cheers? Love that one too.

Tabby, I thought of the tree too and that it might look like the tree of life, then totally forgot about it until you brought it up again. Thank you

An owl. That would be great for us "the monster is a bird" theorists. :rolleyes:

What does an owl represent? I sure hope not as many things as that dang horse.

bearsgonefishin

12-03-2005, 08:01 PM

Character Connection

The Marshal and Sawyer both choked Kate
The Marshal and Wayne both told Kate she'd never be rid of them

car88win

12-03-2005, 08:06 PM

Good catch bears. I hadn't thought of that... That's good on the phrases as well. That's what we are looking for! Thanks!

TabbyRasa

12-03-2005, 09:17 PM

Tabby, I thought of the tree too and that it might look like the tree of life, then totally forgot about it until you brought it up again. Thank you

Yw, yes, I thought of the tree of life as well. Interesting, considering it was in front of what became the house of death.

An owl. That would be great for us "the monster is a bird" theorists. :rolleyes:

What does an owl represent? I sure hope not as many things as that dang horse.
Many associate the owl with wisdom...it's also a creature of the night...would have to look into it for more info though. Did you notice that I spelled the hooting as "who...who"...I guess I still wish that Kate didn't set/allow the fire on purpose.

And speaking of the beautiful (dang) horse...I hear ya and you're way too funny:biggrin:, someone pointed out the horse is a Night Mare. But we don't know the gender of the horse yet. There's a very interesting analysis of Kate/Wayne/Sawyer/Marshall/horse on a thread called "Kate helped Wayne to death and Sawyer to life" or something like that.

waltisfuture

12-03-2005, 11:24 PM

Tabby, I missed the Who Who? :wink1: Have you read Juice the Theory?

--> Recurring Phrases -
Sawyer, "I thought you were yanking my chain" (What Kate Did)

Jack is explaining that she is paralyzed from the waist down for the rest of her life, when Sarah says he's yanking her chain, right? Jack says no, and she tells him she can wiggle her toes. A miracle has happened. (MoSMoF)

Sam G

12-04-2005, 01:03 AM

It seems we have finally found out what Kate real name would be. Kate Jansen, if Wayne is her biological father that's the last name they have for Daine and Wayne in the transcripts.

dasummahchicka

12-04-2005, 01:29 PM

i didnt see jin with any handcuffs in the beginning of the episode...had he been handcuffed since he washed up on the island with the tail survivors?

and who was pushing the button when kate left? was she only gone between two buttom pressings?

shootfire

12-04-2005, 04:33 PM

Love it. Wasn't it your post I just read that said her faux dad Sam and mom Diane = Cheers? Love that one too.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence WIF. It was kind of funny though. I just realized it as I was typing their names. I can't think of a single parallel between the two couples, well...except that maybe they loved each other, but couldn't be together. :smile:

And speaking of the beautiful (dang) horse...I hear ya and you're way too funny:biggrin:, someone pointed out the horse is a Night Mare. But we don't know the gender of the horse yet. There's a very interesting analysis of Kate/Wayne/Sawyer/Marshall/horse on a thread called "Kate helped Wayne to death and Sawyer to life" or something like that.
I also keep thinking about The Black Stallion by Walter Farley. In the book, a boy, Alec, was shipwrecked on a desolate island with this horse. In the book I believe the shipwreck took place off the Spanish coast, but in the movie it was the African coast IIRC. Hmm....
ETA: More juvenile literature?

It seems we have finally found out what Kate real name would be. Kate Jansen, if Wayne is her biological father that's the last name they have for Daine and Wayne in the transcripts.
I don't think Kate's legal name would be Jansen. Kate believed for all those years that Sam was her father. Her mother let her believe it. It would kind of destroy the illusion if she didn't have his last name.

i didnt see jin with any handcuffs in the beginning of the episode...had he been handcuffed since he washed up on the island with the tail survivors?

Yes, he has been wearing one half of the pair of cuffs ever since Michael hacked them apart in HOTRS.

and who was pushing the button when kate left? was she only gone between two buttom pressings?
When Jack left, he said she was the only one there, and not to forget the button. It appears she was only gone between two button pressings.

TabbyRasa

12-04-2005, 11:11 PM

shootfire:
I also keep thinking about The Black Stallion by Walter Farley. In the book, a boy, Alec, was shipwrecked on a desolate island with this horse. In the book I believe the shipwreck took place off the Spanish coast, but in the movie it was the African coast IIRC. Hmm....
And didn't the boy rescue the horse from abuse? Not sure. There was a sequel book, too, The Black Stallion Returns. (ETA title)

More on the horse: someone noted that when Kate was in the car with the marshall, she saw the horse and cried out, and the marshall swerved....so she saved the horse's life. I'm not sure if she cried out because she saw it, or because he swerved after he saw it. In any case, the sighting of the horse did result in Kate's escape. They also mentioned a strange look on Kate's face after the wreck, when the horse ran off. Who knows, maybe stress and excitement due to wreck and escape? Or did she recognize the horse?

This is just a note about the episode title. What Kate Did. OK, we saw her do certain things...but are we making any false assumptions? And what about "what Kate didn't do?" There's also at least one thread about "What ELSE did Kate do?" that I haven't read yet.

shootfire

12-05-2005, 01:35 AM

shootfire:

And didn't the boy rescue the horse from abuse? Not sure. There was a sequel book, too, The Return of the Black Stallion.

You may be thinking of Black Beauty by Anna Sewell. There was abuse in that book, her only book AFAIK. Actually Walter Farley wrote a series of books about the Black Stallion and other horses. Interestingly, Alec rescued the wild Black Stallion during the wreck, only to be dragged ashore by him later. While on the island, they learn to trust one another for their survival. Once rescued, it is learned that the Black won't let anyone touch him except Alec, who trains him as a racehorse.

darkpiranha

12-05-2005, 03:24 AM

TabbyRasa

12-05-2005, 03:25 AM

You may be thinking of Black Beauty by Anna Sewell. There was abuse in that book, her only book AFAIK. Actually Walter Farley wrote a series of books about the Black Stallion and other horses. Interestingly, Alec rescued the wild Black Stallion during the wreck, only to be dragged ashore by him later. While on the island, they learn to trust one another for their survival. Once rescued, it is learned that the Black won't let anyone touch him except Alec, who trains him as a racehorse.
Thanks! Still, I remember that a man was whipping the stallion severely (at a loading dock or port), and I think it was in The Black Stallion Returns, set in Arabia, (now that I've done a little research, I was close but wrong on the title). Can't confirm the whipping yet though. Farley wrote a LOT of books about the black stallion. This one is interesting because on one of the horse threads, someone mentioned horses spooking at shadows. The Black Stallion's Shadow The Black suddenly develops a fear of shadows that threatens his career as a racehorse.

TabbyRasa

12-05-2005, 03:33 AM

What if "I killed the man I loved" was really in reference to Boyd?

What if I create a whole scenario where this is the case, and then defend it to the end of the world, defying all attempts at logic and common sense?

Sorry... brain still reeling from the "two orientation films" theories... and banging my head with a hammer hasn't helped much.
darkpiranha...I feel your pain. I tried to read that huge thread. But we're just trying to be thorough.:) And TPTB have a way of leaving doors open. But who is Boyd?

shootfire

12-05-2005, 03:43 AM

What if "I killed the man I loved" was really in reference to Boyd?

What if I create a whole scenario where this is the case, and then defend it to the end of the world, defying all attempts at logic and common sense?

Sorry... brain still reeling from the "two orientation films" theories... and banging my head with a hammer hasn't helped much.

Huh? I don't get it. :ohwell:

Can't confirm the whipping yet though. Farley wrote a LOT of books about the black stallion.

Tabby, there's a copy in my son's room, I think. I'll check tomorrow some time.

TabbyRasa

12-05-2005, 04:07 AM

Huh? I don't get it. :ohwell:
I think darkpiranha read one too many posts about the spliced film, and reading my post about What Kate Didn't Do was the straw that broke the camel's back. He/she was poking fun at me, and it WAS funny.:biggrin:

darkpiranha

12-05-2005, 04:52 AM

oop! Sorry, TabbyRasa, I wasn't making fun of you, I was making fun of me, in that I put forth a theory that sounds as crazy as the "two orientation film" thread I was referring to. The difference with mine (and with the theory/ideas you put forth) is that we won't stubbornly defend these ideas past all sense of reason like some people are.

It's like arguing with a child who crosses their arms and refuses to listen to the facts you're presenting to them. I was that child once. I remember when I was about four years old absolutely insisting that the words to "Joy to the World" contained the line "Joy to the fishes in the dip-you sea, joy to you and me", when clearly the words are "deep blue sea". My brothers and sister still rag me about that to this day. To all of you here, I admit I was wrong, but to them, I have never admitted my error.

Hmmm... I just thought of something.

Joy to the world...
All the (abducted) boys and girls...
Joy to the (tattooed) fishes in the deep blue sea.
Joy to you and me.

okay.. time for me to break away from the computer and get some sleep

waltisfuture

12-05-2005, 05:19 AM

I found this on DocArzt's site re: Are those horse stables in the background?
http://www.thetailsection.com/

http://www.thetailsection.com/uploaded_images/lost-s02e09-stables-750935.jpg

TabbyRasa

12-05-2005, 05:38 AM

I found this on DocArzt's site re: Are those horse stables in the background?

WIF, I don't think so, not tall or wide enough. And the openings so large, for dog houses. Very odd looking! 3 of them, 2 lined up and one at an angle...hmmmmm.

ETA: Just noticed on re-viewing...car wreck scene with marshall. Just as the horse starts to run in front of the car, it looks like a lion's face just above the horse's hindquarters...it's gone or the camera moves, then it appears again just before the horse runs past. Maybe it's just my grainy tape. No screencaps of this on lost-media...but there are 2 screencaps with white fog/smoke in front of the car.

When Kate left the hatch and Locke had to quickly enter the numbers, the clock was at "00:23" seconds, and the number he typed in wrong was "22", and then changed it to "23" (obviously).

waltisfuture

12-06-2005, 02:03 AM

WIF, I don't think so, not tall or wide enough. And the openings so large, for dog houses. Very odd looking! 3 of them, 2 lined up and one at an angle...hmmmmm.

ETA: Just noticed on re-viewing...car wreck scene with marshall. Just as the horse starts to run in front of the car, it looks like a lion's face just above the horse's hindquarters...it's gone or the camera moves, then it appears again just before the horse runs past. Maybe it's just my grainy tape. No screencaps of this on lost-media...but there are 2 screencaps with white fog/smoke in front of the car.

When Kate left the hatch and Locke had to quickly enter the numbers, the clock was at "00:23" seconds, and the number he typed in wrong was "22", and then changed it to "23" (obviously).

I saw your post on the lion elsewhere and went hmmmm. There was talk somewhere about lions, snakes etc., but I don't recall where or in what context. I'll keep my eyes open.

Gilgamesh - Vol. 3: A Wake for the Undead (2005)

MVO

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808718454/details

Director Masahiko Murata seamlessly incorporates elements of ancient mythology into a futuristic epic of post-apocalyptic chaos in his sci-fi anime GILGAMESH. Sometime during the 21st century, a terrorist act destroys a scientific research facility built over the tomb of the ancient Sumerian king Gilgamesh. Occurring on October 10th, the catastrophic event is dubbed Twin X (for its date, 10-10) and produces an earth-wide electromagnetic imbalance that transforms the sky into an undulating swirl of color known as "the Sheltering Sky." As war, famine, and disease wreak havoc on the weakened planet, two supernatural forces engage in a life-or-death struggle for world domination: Orga, a band of mutant psychics led by a mysterious countess; and Gilgamesh, an army of winged assassins under the charge of the evil scientist who triggered Twin X, Enkidu. Thrust into this calamitous milieu are orphaned brother and sister Kiyoko and Tatsuya, who find themselves torn between the opposing factions in a deadly battle of shifting alliances. Dark and brooding, GILGAMESH unfolds at a suspenseful pace and is rendered in a muted, nearly colorless style of animation that is perfectly suited to its gothic subject matter. This third volume continues the thriller anime series with four more episodes.

AND [Gilgamesh - Orphans of the Apocalypse (Vol. 1)]

Here's more....from Vol. 1

http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=70033227&mqso=70001419

The world has come to an end, of sorts, in this thrilling anime adventure. The skies roil with strange visions, killers take wing (literally) to find their prey and humans are cowering in fear. Amid all this chaos, a brother and sister arise from the shadows gifted with supernatural powers. The overlords know what they're capable of, a knowledge that's driven them to hunt the pair down. Can the siblings get away before they're found?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00096S3SQ/ref=pd_bxgy_text_b/002-5711226-8148037?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130

Editorial Reviews

Amazon.com
The dark adventure series Gilgamesh (broadcast 2003) is designed to appeal to an audience of self-styled Goths. A supernatural event known as the "Double X" destroyed much of human civilization and turned the sky into a reflecting dome. Double X was an act of terrorism engineered by "Enkidu," the pseudonym of Professor Terumichi Madoka. Kikiyo and Tatsuya, Madoka's orphaned son and daughter, become the targets of two groups of psychic teens: "Gilgamesh" and "Orga." Tatsuya's untapped supernatural powers may be the key to restoring the world: but which group should he trust? To heighten the mood, the filmmakers use a monochromatic palette of grays with only a few touches of muted color. The results are so dim, it's hard to see what's going on--not that there's much to see: the animation is very minimal, with held frames and camera movements over still artwork. Gilgamesh plays like a leaden mixture of X, Hellsing, and Boogiepop Phantom. (Rated TV-14 V: grotesque imagery, violence) --Charles Solomon

Product Description:
Enter the world of Gilgamesh. Where the sky has been turned into a psychedelic mirror and civilization is only a shadow of its former self. Where beautiful assassins transform into terrifying winged creatures. Where children are born with amazing powers. And where a brother and sister are hunted by organizations with dark agendas. Gorgeous animation, breakthrough character designs, and stunning visuals make this suspenseful, addictive tale of mystery, magic, and espionage the first gothic anime masterpiece of the new millennium.

Editorial Reviews

Product Description:
After a raging battle in the Core Settlement, the young psychics of Orga are haunted by questions about their Countess (and themselves). But when they sneak into the mysterious Mitleid Corp’s archives, a pack of terrifying cyborgs quickly ends their search for answers. The Countess, however, has discovered valuable information—about both Tatsuya and his sister. Still, the young psychics under her control demand answers. So the Countess invites them to a suspiciously public ceremony for the dying leader of Mitleid. There, the group meets "a monster from the previous century", the aging monster’s manipulative henchman, and his creepily ethereal daughter who, like everyone else in this twisted, macabre world, hides more than she reveals. And what of the gothic assassins of Gilgamesh? They crash the dark party to give the faux funeral real purpose. So put on your blackest attire, your most deceptive stare, and prepare yourself for the next nightmarish chapter of GILGAMESH!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00096S3SQ/ref=pd_sim_d_2/002-5711226-8148037?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130
Gilgamesh - Orphans of the Apocalypse (Vol. 1)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A2UC5Q/ref=pd_sim_d_1/002-5711226-8148037?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130
Gilgamesh, Tablet 02: Cage Without a Key (2005)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AP31H4/ref=pd_sim_d_2/002-5711226-8148037?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130
Gilgamesh - What Side Are You On? (Vol.3)

Sam G

12-06-2005, 12:09 PM

I saw your post on the lion elsewhere and went hmmmm. There was talk somewhere about lions, snakes etc., but I don't recall where or in what context. I'll keep my eyes open.I didn't hear about the lion but the snake was from the special effects house that made the polar bear. There were pics of it but we haven't seen it on the island.
As for the stables in the background. It looks like a movable horse ring. They have these fences that you can put up and move around. Or they look like the jumps that horses go over, lined up next to each other.

shootfire

12-13-2005, 03:58 AM

I'm a little unsure of all that too. I have a feeling there is more to her story than we've seen, so I'm keeping an open mind on the 'Wayne is her father' thing too. Can we believe anything about Kate or what she says?? It's getting quite confusing, but in a good way. :biggrin:

MARSHAL: Tallahassee? I spent a week in Tallahassee one night. It's all strip malls and waffle houses. What's a pretty girl like you going to do down in Tallahassee?
KATE: I'm sure I'll find something.
MARSHAL: I'll bet you've got family down there, huh?
KATE: Actually, I'm just visiting.

[/FONT]

Been trying to figure out why the marshall mentioned Tallahassee three times.

History Reference

Tallahassee is located in Leon County which is named for Ponce de Leon.

Sam G

12-13-2005, 12:31 PM

Been trying to figure out why the marshall mentioned Tallahassee three times.

History Reference

Tallahassee is located in Leon County which is named for Ponce de Leon.There's also Sawyer's Tampa Job, which took place in Florida, also.

bearsgonefishin

12-13-2005, 12:54 PM

Been trying to figure out why the marshall mentioned Tallahassee three times.

History Reference

Tallahassee is located in Leon County which is named for Ponce de Leon.

Sawyer called AL ponce de Leon, someone mentioned that Ponce de Leon was searching for the fountain of youth, Dharma is kinda searching for the same thing with their Life extension program, plus Gilgamesh was searching for immortality. I like the way that all ties together. Makes me think they are all clues about whats happening on this island.

Sam G

12-14-2005, 07:37 PM

The cigarette lighter Kate was flipping on the steps. We see Sawyer, Jack and Kate all use a light like that. In Part 2 of the Pilot Jack uses it to sterilize the razor he is going to use to operate on the Marshal. In TR Sawyer throws one to Kate to light a campfire.http://www.lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=61

There is an octagonal box in WKD that is on the bookshelves in Wayne's house and it is also in the Hatch.
http://wigantonight.co.uk/images/screen2.jpeg
http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=829&pos=487

waltisfuture

12-14-2005, 07:48 PM

Hey everyone

Awesome new stuff. I've been busy with life and haven't taken any time to bring stuff here, so thanks a bunch.

The lighters is super interesting Sam G, have you found a way to include it in your Juice theory?

shootfire and bearsgonefishing........that rocks. It looks like we'll have to read up on Ponce de Leon so we know what to watch for in future eppies, or for that matter, past eppies too.

car88win

12-14-2005, 09:27 PM

Thanks Sam....I saw where you were talking about that box on another thread. We'll have to add those to the wierd props section!

LostLaura

12-20-2005, 06:05 PM

This is my first post (I hope I do okay!), and the last post to this thread was a few days ago... but I just wanted to mention a juxtaposition that occurred between this episode and "Outlaws" that I haven't seen mentioned (possibly because it's too obvious?). When Kate and Sawyer play "I Never", this conversation transpires:

SAWYER: I've never been in love.
KATE: (surprised) You've never been in love?
SAWYER: I ain't drinking, am I?

Now, he could have been lying, but I'm pretty sure we are supposed to believe him there. Therefore, although he is delirious when he says "I love her" to Jack in this episode, I think we are supposed to see the connection between these two statements and how much Sawyer has changed / how much Kate has changed him (?).

::hoping that was a good first post:: :blush:

LostLaura

car88win

12-20-2005, 06:30 PM

That's a great observation LostLaura. We'll have to put that in our parrallel plots or something along those lines. Pretty good for your first post I might say. :wink3:

Aaronia

12-20-2005, 09:37 PM

Hi, I have made a summary of what was posted in a thread that I started, to put it here. I hope it helps the people who is doing all this wonderful work:

In “What Kate did” Kate…
a) sees a horse in the jungle
(Flashback)
b) brings Wayne into the house
c) helps him through the kitchen
[this used to be her home, when she was a child (?)]
- says “Watch your step” a couple times
d) puts him to bed
e) brings him to death by…
f) blowing the house up, when leaving it

(in "Exodus") - Kate wants to carry the dynamite sticks, after Arzt’s explosive death (sounds to me like she feels that she deserves this kind of death more than the others in the dynamite expedition)

Kate…
f) helps to blow the hatch, to enter it (pointed out by Suck_Shaft)
… (back in “What Kate did”)…
e) helps to bring Sawyer back to life
d) helps him out of the bed
c) helps him through the station’s kitchen
[says “You’re home” to Sawyer (2x8)]
b) helps him out of the station
says “Watch yourself” a couple times
a) sees the horse in the jungle

So, that’s a complete parallel between the two scenes. Suggestions are: 1. she is metaphorically undoing her deed in her way to redemption, 2. she is more at home in the island as in her mother’s house, 3. the horse underlines the whole process, it seems to signal moments when she has a chance to help somebody in a death/life situation, pointing out to a deeper meaning of some horse like that in her past. There is an obvious in-between parallel with the time when the marshal was dying in 1x3, in 2x9 she had also an opportunity to take care of the marshal when the car crashed, with another special horse appearance.

Other two possibilities to parallel f) (house explosion) in this episode (not having to go as far as Exodus):

f.1) when Sawyer and Kate are out of the station an anxiety is brought up on the viewers about an impending ‘incident’ in the station (where blast doors had already been shown) and many of us think of it in terms of an explosion
f.2) when Kate run out of the station, leaving Sawyer lying on the floor and the execute-button unattended, there was high danger of an ‘incident’ too, so that, if it had to be an explosion, Sawyer would have died in it (like Wayne), due to her inability to deal with her fears and her past.

The thread can be read in
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=28718 (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=28718)

Edited to make a few corrections