As the starter of the Thread..I will withhold my opinion of the show as to not steer it one way or another. There are several new developments worthy of discussion. Lots of new directions. Let us debate, discuss and enlighten one another...

Who wants to talk about tonight's show??

they answered not 1 but 2 questions(one which was brought up in the show). After the slow pace of some of the previous shows i say good.

I'm actually pretty disappointed in this season as a whole.

I was really excited about tonight's episode, and even told someone that it may end up as the best episode yet....but it was not only boring, but also a letdown plot-wise.

Kate's reason for killing her dad was lame. The extra film footage was lame. Kate's acting was kinda weaker than what she normally gives.


I'm really worried about the future of my favorite show, and this didn't go a long way towards calming me down.

This was my favorite episode thus far this season! There are so many clues and questions derived from those clues in this episode.....the whole thing makes you think. Especially the part with Michael at the end.

I didn't think it was the greatest episode ever! but I did like some parts of it. I was disappointed that Kate did not turn out to be as basass as she has always been in my mind. I always figured that she had lived a life of crime, that by the time she commited "the crime" she had been doing bad for a long time, and maybe liked it.... but, I was wrong. I liked her speech to Sawyer about why she killed Wayne. I just thought her crime would be more... evil and horrible, that's all.

The interaction between Locke and Eko was okay. I didn't read much of the hype. There were 2 billion posts about it, so it annoyed me and I stopped looking. I liked when Eko put Locke in his place :-) Don't confuse coincidence with fate. However, his I-am-so-mysterious-that-I-can-not-talk-like-a-normal-person things is slightly annoying me.

Claire was there! yay! I can't wait until she gets back for real. I have been missing Claire.

I thought that Hurley was good in this episode. Whever he showed up, I loved him. Jin and Sun were also excellent.

Hmm... listing out all the parts I liked made me like it a lot more. I'm glad the horse on the island was really there, but at the same time I was like -- hmm? okay, Kate saw a horse for two seconds a long while after committing the crime? huh? so? Okay, so I guess we could say it symbolizes her descent from being a one-murder girl to true crime, but... whatever.

Okay, I'm stopping now. Perhaps more later.

This episode DELIVERED. I can say I am re-energized about the show! The last couple of episodes I was getting a little frustrated, but we are BACK! We have gotten over the tailies hump and were gonna move forward finally! Mysterious message on the computer, film addition, A HORSE?, blast doors, and more. I cant wait to rewatch this!

Rerun next week unless there is some change, but I bet there isn't. WOOOOT 5 out of 5 stars from me!

I'm with Kevonski. FINALLY, after several extremely disappointing episodes, this one delivers and gets back in touch with what made it great last season. Intrigue, mystery, and most importantly - people FINALLY showing an interest in those other 'machines' in the hatch. No conveniently ignoring those, no wondering what they are, what they do, etc... Michael, of all people, saves the day!

High points:
- Eko & Locke. Loved it.
- No Ana Lucia. Well, very little. Rock on.
- More attention paid to the hatch and its mysteries.
- New strange phenomenon - the horse
- Sawyer is back
- We know something/someone else is at work here to deceive, since the film was spliced.
- Someone is on the other end of the computer! Intrigue!
- Michael investigating the computer and the hatch! Finally!

Low points:
- Kate's flashbacks and the big 'revelation'. Big freakin' whoop. Snoozer.
- Kate's acting. Did she forget how to do this?

I'm with Kevonski. FINALLY, after several extremely disappointing episodes, this one delivers and gets back in touch with what made it great last season. Intrigue, mystery, and most importantly - people FINALLY showing an interest in those other 'machines' in the hatch. No conveniently ignoring those, no wondering what they are, what they do, etc... Michael, of all people, saves the day!

High points:
- Eko & Locke. Loved it.
- No Ana Lucia. Well, very little. Rock on.
- More attention paid to the hatch and its mysteries.
- New strange phenomenon - the horse
- Sawyer is back
- We know something/someone else is at work here to deceive, since the film was spliced.
- Someone is on the other end of the computer! Intrigue!
- Michael investigating the computer and the hatch! Finally!

Low points:
- Kate's flashbacks and the big 'revelation'. Big freakin' whoop. Snoozer.
- Kate's acting. Did she forget how to do this?

Vertical, I posted pretty much the same comments on the "Rate this episode poll".

Regarding Kate's acting. This is EL's first acting role of any import, ever...first outside of the infamous LoveLinks advertisement. She was essentially a model and was cast because of her looks, not her talent. And in episodes like tonight's, it showed like a meteor shower bombarding downtown LA.

The only thing I disagree with you on is the horse. With Charlie's moth and Saywer's boar, we have used the animal analogies already and it seemed stale and old.

Here's a thought, why did the hatch blowing up with dynamite not cause Kate to flashback?

Pretty much agree with everything Vertical said. Double bump for no (little) Ana Lucia. I agree that Kate's revelation was a snoozer, but I expected that. I actually thought the acting was better than in Kate's last flashback episode, which was truly terrible.

Great episode w/ some excellent parts - loved the bible reveal and "dad?". I was freakin out. I agree that Kate was kind of a snoozer. not to sound terrible but I thought that wayne should have done something worse than get drunk, slap around the mother & give her looks for her to justify murdering him. If he had sexually abused her and she found out that he was her real dad and couldn't handle it-it would be justifiable homicide.OMG - how can I forget the kiss? It wasn't as hot as kate and sawyers kiss but it was workin for me - I was shouting at the TV "do it! do it!" but no such luck. At least jin got some booty - I am glad to see them back together. I am disappointed that we didn't get to see more bernard and rose but thought it hysterical when hurley said that stuff about rose husband being white.

I thought for sure I'd be disappointed to learn what Kate did. I didn't think I'd ever want to know, but right now this might be my favorite episode of the show so far. Man, this season is even better than last year!

Kate's reason for killing her dad was lame. The extra film footage was lame. Kate's acting was kinda weaker than what she normally gives.


I liked it, it was still good to me, but I agree with all three of these points! :)

Vertical, I posted pretty much the same comments on the "Rate this episode poll".

Regarding Kate's acting. This is EL's first acting role of any import, ever...first outside of the infamous LoveLinks advertisement. She was essentially a model and was cast because of her looks, not her talent. And in episodes like tonight's, it showed like a meteor shower bombarding downtown LA.

The only thing I disagree with you on is the horse. With Charlie's moth and Saywer's boar, we have used the animal analogies already and it seemed stale and old.

Here's a thought, why did the hatch blowing up with dynamite not cause Kate to flashback?

Yeah, I know EL hasn't had any acting roles outside of this one, so I don't mean to be overly critical of her here. I just mean that up until now, she has done incredibly well for her background. But tonight she completely fell flat on delivery.

As for the horse - this extends beyond an animal analogy, though. Yes, it's a tired vehicle for character development, but this one is different. A moth and a boar are not unusual things to see on this island. They were used as cheesy, somewhat contrived methods of getting Charlie and Sawyer to realize something about themselves... but the horse... totally different. What in blazes is a HORSE doing on this island?

Don't mistake my enthusiasm for this new mystery for unadulterated approval of it. I am happy that they're introducing another cool wrinkle, but at the same time, I am not happy at how conveniently contrived this one is. I will simply hold out hope that there is some other explanation besides "the island is fabricating things from peoples' subconsciousness'.", because that wreaks of uninspired writing. I hope there's more to it than that.

The scenes with Locke, Eko and Micheal and the preview for the next episode were awesome. The Kate back story was boring and the kiss was tacked on and pointless.

But, thats the great part about Lost. It has something for everyone, some liked the kiss and that Kate backstory while others like myself dig on the mythology and mystery of the island itself.

Despite my objections with the begining of this eps, it still gets 4 stars.

Oh, almost forgot..

They saw the polar bear and it was real.
They saw Walt and he was real.
They saw the horse and it was real.
Jack saw his dad... wanna bet that was real too?

Yeah, I know EL hasn't had any acting roles outside of this one, so I don't mean to be overly critical of her here. I just mean that up until now, she has done incredibly well for her background. But tonight she completely fell flat on delivery.

As for the horse - this extends beyond an animal analogy, though. Yes, it's a tired vehicle for character development, but this one is different. A moth and a boar are not unusual things to see on this island. They were used as cheesy, somewhat contrived methods of getting Charlie and Sawyer to realize something about themselves... but the horse... totally different. What in blazes is a HORSE doing on this island?

Don't mistake my enthusiasm for this new mystery for unadulterated approval of it. I am happy that they're introducing another cool wrinkle, but at the same time, I am not happy at how conveniently contrived this one is. I will simply hold out hope that there is some other explanation besides "the island is fabricating things from peoples' subconsciousness'.", because that wreaks of uninspired writing. I hope there's more to it than that.

I think it's fine that TPTB decided to hire an untrained actress, but they should keep her to simple stuff until she gets the hang of it. Or get her an acting coach. After tonight, I feel safe in assuming she doesn't have one.

I gotcha about the horse, but remember, we've already seen a polar bear and a ship from the 19th century. It would not be unusual for horses to have been on that ship and escaped onto the island after the shipwreck (okay, so I live near the Outer Banks of NC where such escaped horses still exist today). So, I interpreted what I saw as the horse on the island escaping its fate from the shipwreck (or rather, it was descended from horses who escaped their fate), much like Kate escaped her fate when the car crashed.

But I totally see your point.

At least we didn't see that stupid plastic plane again. Thank the stars.

This episode was a welcome return to the excellent writing this show's been missing. Good main plot, good sideplot, good throaway lines ("So, Rose's husband is white." :)), all-around consistent episode. Previous Kate eps have been irritatingly coy, but this one was a corker. I was absolutely riveted, perhaps more than ever this year (or at least since the premiere).

I liked it. It was pretty good. No complaints. Nice balance of character/mythology and some questions answered and a few more raised.

Kate is conflicted and Sawyer is his old Snarky self. Michael was useful and Locke and Eko has some kind of weird vibe going on. Is Jack going to try and save another 'damsel' in distress?

Hurley was funny and Charlie wasn't a jerk..

And there are apparently horses on the island...

awsome episode. im glad weve got everyone back in their place and we can move on, i did like the talies story but i prefier the main guys story.but anyway you guys mentioned it all, oh, the ending... DAD? freaking awsome, i always thought in the back of my mind that would happen and it did!!!! Cant wait till next episode! it will be a long 6 weeks!

Jack's dad being real too?

Wow...that would be amazing...

I think it's fine that TPTB decided to hire an untrained actress, but they should keep her to simple stuff until she gets the hang of it. Or get her an acting coach. After tonight, I feel safe in assuming she doesn't have one.

I gotcha about the horse, but remember, we've already seen a polar bear and a ship from the 19th century. It would not be unusual for horses to have been on that ship and escaped onto the island after the shipwreck (okay, so I live near the Outer Banks of NC where such escaped horses still exist today). So, I interpreted what I saw as the horse on the island escaping its fate from the shipwreck (or rather, it was descended from horses who escaped their fate), much like Kate escaped her fate when the car crashed.

But I totally see your point.

At least we didn't see that stupid plastic plane again. Thank the stars.

Here, here. If we never see that plastic plane again, it'll be too soon.

And personally, I'd be grateful if your explanation for the horse turned out to be the actual explanation. I don't like the thought of imagination-manifestation, a-la Michael Crichton's "Sphere" (Mind you, I LOVED it in that book, but don't feel that it has that kind of place in this show), and I am not sure I like the idea of people observing the lostaways and 'releasing' this horse to spark Kate's memory. Waay too complicated and far-fetched. So the idea of a 'transplanted' horse (or an entire race of horses) is much more comforting... although bizarre, given that we haven't seen any of them up until now.

Here, here. If we never see that plastic plane again, it'll be too soon.

And personally, I'd be grateful if your explanation for the horse turned out to be the actual explanation. I don't like the thought of imagination-manifestation, a-la Michael Crichton's "Sphere" (Mind you, I LOVED it in that book, but don't feel that it has that kind of place in this show), and I am not sure I like the idea of people observing the lostaways and 'releasing' this horse to spark Kate's memory. Waay too complicated and far-fetched. So the idea of a 'transplanted' horse (or an entire race of horses) is much more comforting... although bizarre, given that we haven't seen any of them up until now.

I try, you know, I try really hard to give these writers the benefit of the doubt. I hope there is not just one horse on the island that morphed there to "save Kate". I am more like Jack, I need a rational explanation for why things are.

Maybe, if there is a whole herd of horses, we will find out that Kate is an expert polo player. Locke can make saddles and bridles out of tanned boar hides :)

I have to say this episode was great. I was completely spoiled for the last 3 episodes and they are my faves of the season. I thought Evangeline did a fantastic job and seeing her and Sawyer back together made me smile.:biggrin:
How I have missed Sawyer!
"that's the sweetest thing I ever heard" :rotflmao:

Have to agree about unsatisfactory reasons for roasting Wayne alive.
If mom tolerated abuse, she was the one with a problem.
Burning a man alive seems to imply a more 'personal' type of attack. It seems that we should really find out later down the line that Kate was indeed 'touched' by her real father & and not in a good way.

I'm still jazzed about an episode about Kate and what happened with her. I still think that she's the most interesting charactor and I absolutly love EL and I thought she played the emotionally unstable lead quite well.

The following is practically a psych analysis of Kate's situation so if you don't care, I appologize and feel free to skip to the next paragraph :smile:
I thought that her reasons for killing her dad were understandable (in a homicidal way...) and I didn't think that they were lame. Having a step dad abuse your mother and speak to you in 'insinuating' ways is one thing because you can, in a sense, seperate yourself from him because he's not your flesh and blood. If you suddenly found out that he was your real father, that seperation that you've developed over time as protection is suddenly gone. And in Kate's case, the man that she's been able to turn to as her real father, the idea is suddenly gone. In my opinion, if all these factors were in play, it could totally cause certain people to become homicidal and I thought it was totally believable.

The two questions I have ringing in my head after this episode are these: why the hell did Kate kiss Jack and oh dear, how is that going to impact their relationship. Second, a horse?! WTF? I mean, I get why it's important to her, but what's it doing on the island and why the heck can Sawyer see it?!

Three cheers for Sawyer waking up and being back to his sarcastic loveable self! "Who the hell is Wayne?" hehe, classic!

This episode had me on the edge of my seat more than a few times!! The next one (six weeks?! Aww I guess they deserve Christmas too) looks nutso! :)

I thought it was excellent! We got to see lots of interactions among our Lostaways.
Eko rocks! "Don't mistake coincidence for fate." Oh yeah, he and Locke are going to be interesting to watch.
Sawyer's awake! It was good to have him back again, and his reactions to the hatch, and to still being on the island, were classic. And he makes Kate smile, dammit, and I like that about these two being together. That damned triangle is going to be interesting, but I really think Kate/Sawyer is the better match. Jack so rarely makes her smile, you know?
Jin & Sun are having a second honeymoon. Hurley's discrete little thumbs-up was cute, Sun being eager for Kate to take over Sawyer duty so she could get back to her man was even cuter. And Jin is free of his handcuff, finally!
Mike, the blast doors, the computer, "Dad?" Whoa!
Liked Kate's back story and thought EL did an excellent job. I'm not completely convinced that Wayne never abused her. However, even if it was limited to the kind of leering and innuendo we saw, if she's been getting that from the guy since puberty...yuck. Bad enough from a step-father, but once she finds out he was her real father, disgusting in the extreme.It was all good, and felt like a real episode of Lost. I'm so relieved to be past The Ana Lucia show. I'm so overdosed on that character that I'd like to see her stay in exile for the rest of the damned season. Three lines with Jack each episode should be just about right.

I thought the writing and charachter interactions were a lot better. I think actually answering some of the smaller questions was good also. Kate never appeared to be a badass, just a girl in a bad situation that tried to make the most of it. She acts like someone who, was mentioned in another thread, their whole life is gone, mom, dad she hates, dad she likes, husband, and sweetheart. She relies only on her self.

I, too, say that this was the best epi of the season! LOVED it.

I loved this episode. I forget who it was last week that said that last week's episode felt like a "reset". I think he was right. This episode felt like we picked up with the mysteries of the island again after all the survivors have been reunited. Excellent episode. It had all the spark and excitement and mystery of the 1st season that I loved.

PS. Baileys dad. Thanks for another critque thread.

I really enjoyed the episode.

I thought the flashback was one of the best of the year, and certainly the best Kate flashback. It actually answered some questions and didn't leave us all hanging for more answers.

I also enjoyed the pacing of the episode. We saw lots of cast members, and the momentum from the beginning of the season was somewhat restored.

PhillyGirl,

You're welcome...I am glad we didn't get a lot of two word responses...this episode was one that really moved things forward and I can't wait until the next one!

Just as Hurley did in the episode....:thumbsup:

What about Hurley's role..his thumbs up to Jin was priceless but I was rather confused about his talk with Jack.