Okay, is it just me or did anyone else wonder something about the newly found-n-spliced section of the Orientation filmstrip? It seems to be alluding to the INTERNET because how else could anyone use the computer to communicate with the outside world? But if the entire filmstrip was made in 1980, that was before the internet!!!!!!! There would have been no danger of anyone using the computer to communicate with anyone off the island...right? So, I think the Hanso Foundation/shadowy international cartel/OTHERS slipped up, somehow trying to make the Lostaways think they just happened to discover the missing bit of the filmstrip, when really they made this last bit RECENTLY, cut out a few frames of the original, and set up this whole situation for the Lostaways to discover the alleged "missing section", so that it could be an "addendum", a warning not to attempt to use the net, although Candle never used the phrase "internet" or "web", but how else would they communicate over the computer?!

One prob with my above theory of the timeline discrepancy:

If the Hanso Foundation is powerful and resource-laden enough to do all that they have done thus far, why couldn't they themselves just seamlessly splice in that newer section of film before flight 815 ever crashed? Was it because Desmond, a lower level "other" who isn't in on everything and possibly has idealistic stars in his eyes about whatever is going on, would have caught on to things if someone showed up in the hatch, took the filmstrip, and returned it with the new bit? YES, that could very well be it! Desmond would have realized it was tampered with. But how could the top dogs know that Desmond would run away from the hatch due to a specific sequence of events, I mean, they don't control EVERYTHING...do they? And had he stayed, he would have eventually seen the spliced-in bit along with the rest of the Lostaways. Anyway...so this prob with the theory still stands, why couldn't the Hanso bigwigs simply splice in the new part themselves? They could have done a very seamless job of it, considering how high-tech they apparently are.

Still, this is very weird. I mean, in 1980, when the filmstrip was allegedly made, the Hanso Foundation wouldn't have had to worry about anyone using the computer to communicate with the outside world...or even with another computer on their own "network" on the island. There was no internet or "intranet"! Then again, they are SO cutting edge with their remote accelerated viewing and genetic experiments, that it is certainly quite plausible that they had one of the earliest internet systems going...but the rest of the outside world did not, so there would be no way to communicate to anyone OFF the island. Perhaps the warning was meant to stop them from figuring out how to communicate with anyone in other Dharma stations ON the island, such as what Michael and Walt were apparently doing in the last scene? Maybe that idea was threatening enough to the Hanso boys, that the low-level people would start communicating and figuring things out, like that things were not as idealistic as they had been led to believe, and sinister things were going on?

Anyway, bottom line: what up with Candle admonishing hatchies NOT to use the computer to attempt to communicate...computers couldn't really do that in 1980, so...???

The internet started as ARPANET back in the 60's... back then it was really only available to the military and research institutions... so it's not that far-fetched that the Dharma Initiative would have access...

Besides, computers could communicate with the "outside world" through various means long before the internet came into its own: modems, BBS's, various other networks.

Maybe Kelvins partner was using it to communicate with other people in the other hatches, and they figured out what was going on and started a rebellion, thus becoming the others, and the people who believed in the hatches like kelvin were left there to stay, waiting for there replacements.

Um, there was an internet - of sorts - in 1980 - and it would have been possible to communicate via email or messages to government or university computers. (ARPANET, USENET, etc.)

More info: http://www.walthowe.com/navnet/history.html (easy to digest history)

There was certainly no "World Wide Web" at the time - we had to wait for Al Gore to make that, didn't we? (kidding!) Oops - and the link above just proved me wrong on my Gore joke, darn it!

There were computer modems in 1980. You could dial into another computer's modem and communicate with it. Ever see the movie Wargames? It worked kind of like that. The famous hacker Kevin Mitnick was arrested for breaking into corporate computers and mainframes in the late 70's using dial-up modems. In fact, he was the inspiration for Matthew Broderick's character in Wargames.

What the message in the film indicates is that there may be a telephone communications line somewhere on the island.

Heh... computers have been used to communicate since even the late 60's/early 70's... email was being used as early as 73... even USENET which is still around now was started in 79...

No idea why you think computers couldnt communicate in 1980...

Wide area networks are from 1984, but surely there were ways to communicate from one computer to another before that, only they weren't generic, but manufacturer-specific, and more like local networks.

In this case, it is not beyond reason to suppose the different hatches could be connected so communication among them by computer means were posible. What would be surprising (to say the least) is to find a way to connect to the Internet from the Island (or, at least, from the hatches).

Besides, computers could communicate with the "outside world" through various means long before the internet came into its own: modems, BBS's, various other networks.


Yep. Telex comes to mind.

And if you want to get picky, it is a film. Not a filmstrip.:biggrin:

IBM employees have been able to communicate within their own networks for years and years. Kinda like IMs to each other. On a very similar screen w/basic green typing, like on the show. Worked there through all of college.

That's why it made sense that they reached someone else on the island. Meaning, they may not have internet connection, but the computer is set up on some type of LAN network. I'm sure Michael will find where it leads to!

FYI: while working there, I was also priviledged to 'test' the internet via Prodigy as a part of my job. That was late 80's, and we were already able to do most things we do today -- buy clothing, look up information, etc (although it was very limited then). They also were able to watch tv on their computers (although it was very choppy then), connect to news services to download current news to computers and get quotes from the stock market. Obviously, I worked in a testing area.

Not only that, you could use computers to communicate with other computers long before the Internet was ever invented. I did it myself many times before my computer even had an Ethernet jack.

Tons of people used to use dial-up BBSes to communicate with each other. As another example, back in those days the Space Shuttle didn't use the Internet to communicate with ground control and it still doesn't.

The Internet's prevalent now, but it wasn't the first way to hook together computers and it certainly isn't the only way.

The internet started as ARPANET back in the 60's... back then it was really only available to the military and research institutions... so it's not that far-fetched that the Dharma Initiative would have access...
Ooooh, fantastic point/post! I was wondering just when it really started because I know it was loooooooooooooooong before it was in common use, but I didn't realize that the military (!) and research institutions (!) had it way back when as far as the '60's!!!!! Okay, now I'm really into geeked out overdrive theorizing mode here! This all fits in! All the research on the island was on the cutting edge and even Bed, Bath & BEYOND the cutting edge of science and technology at the time it started and today. So, like I said in my original post, if that is so, it is totally plausible that they had an inTRAnet, anyway, but I didn't realize how far back the inTERnet went with the military. I had been thinking, okay, even if they could communicate within their own network, there is no danger of anyone from the island getting a message to any computer OFF the island, or there wasn't in 1980, to be clear about what I'm saying. But, if the military had the net and if there is a military connection here, then the Hanso boys would have cause for worry...which leads to the thought that, even if the military of one or more countries is a part of this, only certain specific, ultra-top-secret departments of the military that know about it and this whole insistence on not using the computers to communicate with the outside world (which would have just been other military computers that had the net, at the time in 1980) was to keep the whole works ultra-top secret because only the tippy-top figures in all the international pieces to this puzzle know Thing One about this! Not even the mainstream military knows about this. It is only the ultra-elite "Hanso Foundation Board Member" types. Shudder.

Anyway...okay, so I can see how they could have had the net in 1980. But if the spliced bit IS part of the original, that begs a whole NEW set of questions, like:

Why was it cut out?
Who stuck it in the bible?
What up, what up, what up?

I'm going to need some protein today. The brain, she is on overdrive here! I read a hilarious quote in someone's signature line of their post yesterday, something to the tune of:

"If LOST fans were looking for Bin Laden, he'd be found within two hours."

ROFLMBO!

Quick comment to end this thread .... OVER ANALYSIS!!!!

Wide area networks are from 1984, but surely there were ways to communicate from one computer to another before that, only they weren't generic, but manufacturer-specific, and more like local networks.

In this case, it is not beyond reason to suppose the different hatches could be connected so communication among them by computer means were posible. What would be surprising (to say the least) is to find a way to connect to the Internet from the Island (or, at least, from the hatches).
Exactly, dat was my entire point. But now that I read all the bril posts in response to my original post, I realize that there was a "military net" of sorts before 1980...way before, apparently. But, like you just pointed out, all of these early "internets" were more like "intranets", a local network of communication. "Local" meaning, even if the computers were not all on the same site, it was still a closed network. You could only communicate to computers on your same network...unless I'm wrong there, too *lol*. So the Hanso Foundation must only have been worried about someone from the Swan Station communicating with some military computer (or computer on a military and/or research network) at the desk of someone who does NOT have the top-secret knowledge of the Dharma Initiative, etc., which would include pretty much everybody except an elite few.

ah well, ajceder, aren't you the party pooper!

i was quite delighted to find this. i actually posted someting related on another thread - here: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=638918&postcount=80

and if this is over analysis then there's a bunch of folks out there doing the exact same thing. thanks so much all of you geeks, for the info, especially geekwitch for the link.

and also YEAH IT'S A FILM not a tape or video... i totally feel your pain, lostgenie.

I am not so sure that they wouldbe able to communicate with someone outside of the island, did Candle say "the outside world"? It would make sense that they could communicate with other people on the island via the computer, and it would also make sense why they would not want them to, it might interfere with their research, but if they didn't want them communicating with anyone else in the first place, couldn't they have just not connected the computers or allowed internet access?

Maybe Kelvins partner was using it to communicate with other people in the other hatches, and they figured out what was going on and started a rebellion, thus becoming the others, and the people who believed in the hatches like kelvin were left there to stay, waiting for there replacements.

I agree Josh, I'm hooked on the idea of a rebellion from the participants of the experiments. Exactly.

Heh... computers have been used to communicate since even the late 60's/early 70's... email was being used as early as 73... even USENET which is still around now was started in 79...

No idea why you think computers couldnt communicate in 1980...

Google's Usenet archive actually hints January 1, 1981 is the oldest message they have or at least close. So no, it wouldn't be a stretch at all.

Computers have communicated since the early 70's

What u see on the hatch computer is a command line interface. This gives u root access to any computer system if u know the syntax, and parameters of the language it uses.

The internet and the computers of mid-90 up to present date are different... they have
GUI'S (Graphical User Interface's) wich means u have a desktop with icons and symbols for the programs u want to execute.

In a command line environment u tell the computer what folder to open, type in what file or program u want to run etc. A computer today and back then can send the same data...its all bits and bytes... today with broadband and faster wire technologies we just send alot more of it...and we send it faster.... thats really the biggest difference... oh... and the Internet of old...Arpanet/Darpanet were Military research and Scientist developer networks not accessible to the public.

The Dharma Initiative could well have set up their own little 80's system with networking on the island....Altough it would have required the likes of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Nicholas Negroponte and a bunch of other long-timed famous geeks and Early Computer Visionaries. And finally the likes of the guys at the Rand Corporation...who dreamt up the Internet.

And in the end.... it may also help explain the cable Sayid found.

And in the end.... it may also help explain the cable Sayid found.

right, if there is even a possibility of communication with the "outside world" then there must be a LAN cable or something connecting the island and outside world.

this is the subject of couple other threads as well. i posted the following on 'em and just gotta share here, since we're all talking 'bout the same thing... whether the computers could communicate with the outside world.

why not? don't forget there is a radio tower on the island. cannot the individual terminal station be connected to a mainframe that then converts info to as radio signal and then...?

i found this interesting info about SETI, which is not a totally parallel situation but does address some of the issues:

http://www.wap.org/journal/seti/setiathome.html

Back in the early 1970s, after Al Gore invented the internet, that computer they have in the Hatch has less computing power than a Black Berry.

It would be fun to ping the network though.

mferris. dude.
the computer they have in the hatch may well have a hecka lot more power than a blackberry. that apple II can be just a terminal connected to all those big-@ss machines you see in the room there. they may constitute a mainframe, or connect to one.

mferris. dude.
the computer they have in the hatch may well have a hecka lot more power than a blackberry. that apple II can be just a terminal connected to all those big-@ss machines you see in the room there. they may constitute a mainframe, or connect to one.

I've been wondering if that was an Apple II. I could never really see it that well.

Early use of Arpanet/Usenet was limited to copying files and documents from one computer to another - there was no such thing as e-mail back then. It also required a telephone line to connect the computers. Any line coming from the island would have to drop at some computer that understood it - this was original TCP (no IP then).

'Communicating' in the way they used it is anachronistic - it didn't exist except in predetermined circumstances under very limited conditions. It was most commonly used to simply transfer files or run batch jobs.

Either the date of the film is wrong or Dharma had one long-*** telephone cable...

Oldwiz

I think you're right... didn't Al Gore invent it in the 90's?

:biggrin: (j/k)

The movie Jumpin Jack Flash was filmed in the 80's. Similar type of communications. Those green monitors are rather unlovingly referred to as dumb terminals as all they did was act as the interface to a much larger computer - hence all the equipment behind them. Looks pretty much 80-ish to me.

Either the date of the film is wrong or Dharma had one long-*** telephone cable...

So what in the world is a secret orientation film doing with a copyright date, anyway? What do they want to do, license it for home video or something?

I think it would be possible to communicate with the outside world if they have some kind of phone line set up. Islands like Hawaii have been able to phone the mainland long before 1980 (i think at least :)). Don't know if it's satalite or what...?

OK. So assuming pre-internet, the person somehow gets a BBS number and dials it. It doesnt have to be anything military.

Hi everyone. I've been looking at this site for awhile. I love the show and probably will be getting season one on DVD soon.

As far as the communication thing goes most of the theories are right. The guy on the video did not say anything about the "internet" or even communication with "the outside world". He simply said: "do not use the computer for anything other than entering the numbers" he was very vague about communication in reference to the computer.

Now the thing I am not getting is the connection between Mr. Eko's story of the Tannakh/ Torah (Old Testament) and the Dharmic view the story has taken in mysteries being uncovered in every single episode. Maybe Mr. Eko is there to show Locke he isn't really as much a man of faith as he thinks he is. He said: "don't mistake fate for coincidence". I think that kinda floored Locke.

P.S.

Man, who ever made your avatar sure had time on their hands. It is pretty funny though.

right, if there is even a possibility of communication with the "outside world" then there must be a LAN cable or something connecting the island and outside world.

The New Section of The Film Transcript:

THE FILM: When the alarm sounds, either you or your partner must input the code. It is highly recommended that you and your partner take alternating shifts. In this manner you will stay as fresh and alert [splice] utmost importance that when the alarm sounds the code be entered correctly, and in a timely fashion. Do not attempt to use the computer [splice] for anything else other than the entering of the code. This is its only function. The isolation that attends the duties associated with Station 3 may tempt you to try and utilize the computer for communication with the outside world. This is strictly forbidden. Attempting to use the computer in this manner will compromise the integrity of the project and worse, could lead to another incident. I repeat, do not use the computer for anything other than entering the code. Congratulations, until your replacements arrive, the future of the project is in your hands. On behalf of the DeGroots, Alvar Hanso and all of us at the Dharma Initiative, thank you. Namaste. And good luck.

The Film did indeed say: Don't use the computer to communicate with the outside world. So by outside world he probably means
A) Off the island
and/or
B)Other stations within the island

Both are highly likely IF the new Film is originally from the Front-enders hatch. Since their hatch was an isolation hatch any communication would un-isolate them.