I've speculated elsewhere (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=29419)that the island might be a giant organic biocomputer. And others have noted the possible relevance of gaia theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_theory_(science)) to the show. Combining the two, could the island be like a "brain" for our planet?

Maybe the island has regulated our biosphere since the dawn of humanity. The concentrated electromagnetism could be the result of its mental activity. At some point, however, the system of regulation got out of whack. Our biosphere lost its natural balance, with humanity running amok.

Now check out Danielle's map. Remember LE CRATE'RE? Notice how it's at the center of the island.

Perhaps, at some point in the past in the past, a meteor or other celestial object crashed into the island, cleaving the planet's "brain" in half. Now the two sides fight against each other, unaware that they were once part of the same whole.

Perhaps our planet has become schizophrenic.

Right vs. left, male vs. female, yin vs. yang, light vs. dark....

NB: PLEASE MAKE SURE TO READ MY EXPANDED THEORY (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=692404&postcount=15) AS WELL...

Interesting idea, as always, bigmouth...I wish I could say more, but I'll have to go and think about it.

Cheers!

i can see what u mean by your theory as in the computer is the brain of the world and if they dont press the button the world doesn't work any more

very interesting hmmmm :cool:

bigmouth:

Really interesting idea. Have you perhaps read the New Jedi Order series of books in the Star Wars expanded universe? There's a bio-engineered creature in the book called a dhuryam that basically does the same thing you're suggesting.

So the due to a meteor splitting the brain of Earth, she is now Bi-Polar.:biggrin:

So the due to a meteor splitting the brain of Earth, she is now Bi-Polar.:biggrin:
LOL! That was good!

bigmouth:

Really interesting idea. Have you perhaps read the New Jedi Order series of books in the Star Wars expanded universe? There's a bio-engineered creature in the book called a dhuryam that basically does the same thing you're suggesting.

Grrrr... Beat me to it.

LL: I love it! Would certainly put a whole new spin on POLAR reversal!

Here's why I chose the analogy to schizophrenia. Our right and left brains contain a lot of redundancies, particularly where language is concerned. In ordinary people, the two halves work in conjunction. We experience the "voice" of the redunant language center (located, if I recall correctly, in the right brain) as interior monologue.

Some scientists speculate that schizophrenia is basically a failure to recognize this monologue as internally generated. Because of a breakdown in communication between the two sides of their brains, schizophrenics experience their redunant "voice" as coming from without. This voice is often very harsh and judgmental. As I've noted elsewhere (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=16188), at least one scientist, Julian Jaynes, has argued that this dynamic may explain the creation of religion.

johnnyreb and imfromthepast: I'm actually unfamiliar. Please explain!

My inspiration was the DaVinci code, in which I'm currently engrossed. Johnny, if you haven't already, you (and todell and LL) definitely need to check it out posthaste. Connections with tib's riddles (particularly those re sangrael and the loss of the sacred feminine) keep exploding all around me as I read.

jazzy and todell: Thanks!

LL: I love it! Would certainly put a whole new spin on POLAR reversal!

Here's why I chose the analogy to schizophrenia. Our right and left brains contain a lot of redundancies, particularly where language is concerned. In ordinary people, the two halves work in conjunction. We experience the "voice" of the redunant language center (located, if I recall correctly, in the right brain) as interior monologue.

Some scientists speculate that schizophrenia is basically a failure to recognize this monologue as internally generated. Because of a breakdown in communication between the two sides of their brains, schizophrenics experience their redunant "voice" as coming from without. This voice is often very harsh and judgmental. As I've noted elsewhere (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=16188), at least one scientist, Julian Jaynes, has argued that this dynamic may explain the creation of religion.

My inspiration was the DaVinci code, in which I'm currently engrossed. Johnny, if you haven't already, you (and todell and LL) definitely need to check it out posthaste. Connections with tib's riddles (particularly those re sangrael and the loss of the sacred feminine) keep exploding all around me as I read.

BM,
I remember reading your theory elsewhere. That was in July. We have entered the hatch since then. I would like to know how your theory has changed since your original post. We did not find the larger than human skeleton as you proposed, however it was such a good one that I would like to see a continuation of your thoughts now that new things have been exposed. I would propose draggin up that 'ole thread. If you don't, I will. If for nothing else, just to get your voice outta my head!:biggrin:

I fully intend to read the DaVinci code. I also anticipate the release of the movie. I now have quite a list of books for summer reading, thanks to this show and the many references by the posters here.

BTW: Do you suppose since our bears are in the wrong environment, they are Bi-Polar Bears now. Poor things, don't know whether to bask in the sun or roll in the snow.:ohwell: Sorry, couldn't help myself.

bigmouth:

I've read The Da Vinci Code and Angels & Demons and I've also seen connections to those works (and the theories Dan Brown used to write them).

As for the Star Wars reference, it goes like this:

The New Jedi Order series of books, the first of which is written by author R.A. Salvatore, brings into the known galaxy a new enemy, the Yuuzhan Vong. The Vong are a sadomasochistic race of aliens who detest technology and only use biotech, including symbiots and parasites to enhance themselves. They are also outside of the Force, which causes problems for the Jedi. Anyways, one of their bio-engineered toys is a being called a dhuryam, which is a big brainlike creature which can control a planet's weather, atmosphere, environment, even animals.

Edit: Actually, another term for it is "world brain". Forgot to add that.

bm

you are amazing.. i love this... i think its the best read about the island i have seen YET...

have to think more... i am so excited...

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW: Do you suppose since our bears are in the wrong environment, they are Bi-Polar Bears now. Poor things, don't know whether to bask in the sun or roll in the snow. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Big Mouth, and Livin:

I'm sorry I don't have more than this to offer, but back in October "the site that must not be named" posted this little ditty (http://lxicon.perception.net/lost/bigspaceship1.com.bi-polar.polar.bear.mp3). (I thought I had transcribed the lyrics on Rabbits, but, alas, I did not. Oh well. I hope the chipmunkiness doesn't drive you too mad!)

Big Mouth, and Livin:

I'm sorry I don't have more than this to offer, but back in October "the site that must not be named" posted this little ditty (http://lxicon.perception.net/lost/bigspaceship1.com.bi-polar.polar.bear.mp3). (I thought I had transcribed the lyrics on Rabbits, but, alas, I did not. Oh well. I hope the chipmunkiness doesn't drive you too mad!)

Todell,
Goofy little ditty at that. I searched for lyrics but came up with only one song by Stone Temple Pilots ... not the right one. Would like to see the lyrics, as was hard to catch it all.

Bigmouth,
I eagerly await the continuation of your thoughts that were expressed in the "The Science/Pseudo-Science of Lost" thread.

Todell,
Goofy little ditty at that. I searched for lyrics but came up with only one song by Stone Temple Pilots ... not the right one. Would like to see the lyrics, as was hard to catch it all.

Bigmouth,
I eagerly await the continuation of your thoughts that were expressed in the "The Science/Pseudo-Science of Lost" thread.


I wouln't put the lyrics up if I where you.

And Todell, you may have transcribed the lyrics and had them removed.

I just tried to put the lyrics to a song up and it was removed.

I have all the words written down to the song but I'll probably get in trouble for that too, I cant seem to do anything right on these boards!

The consensus seems to be if you memorize it its not an infringement but writing it down for someone else is, maybe I can send it to you telepathically-Nope, oh well I guess all that guff we learn about sharing as kids is just that - Guff.:confused:


Anyway back on topic- I like the brain idea, it could definetly explain the some of the weird things going on. When the brain doesn't work right it can do some really strange things. Given the right chemical imbalances or crossed connections all kinds of things can go "wrong", in essense the ordinary becomes extraordinary, or vice versa.

Synesthesia is a brain malfunction where a person may taste sounds, hear colors, or see sounds.

Some people think the same effect can be duplicated with certain drugs.
for example LSD, some people have claimed to have had this happen to them while tripping on the drug.

Some doctors explain it's effects on the brain by comparing it to a switchboard. Every nerve of the body communicate with other nerves through chemical messages. There are places on the nerves that send these messages, and there are places that accept these messages. These doctors say, normally in a switchboard A can plug in and talk to B but when A takes LSD, A gets plugged in to B, C, D, Vincent the dog, the local rock, Mars, 23 memories from the past, fantasies from the future all at the same time.

Maybe the island is a big sugar cube- :)

Just kidding I like this idea.

has anyone seen the movie L'Auberge Espagnole (Sp?) In English that's Euro Pudding. (Canadian Title was "Pot Luck" and there are several other titles)

It was about a French student that goes to college in Barcelona.
The movie is basically how he learns to cope in such a foreign world, When he first gets there he stays with a family friend but it doesnt work out then he stays with an aquiantence from his home that is a brain surgeon-this guy make a model of the brain using his breakfast foods-in order to explain the makeup of the brain and I believe he compared it to life.

Anyway, eventually this guy ends up sharing an apartment with a bunch of other college students, and almost none of them spoke each others language. There was the French guy, a German guy, a Girl from England, a Girl from the area, an Italian guy, a girl from Belgium, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some it's been a while since I saw It.

Anyway, as he lives with these people they start blending their customs together and they learn to communicate with each other, and they also learn that they have a lot to learn about each other as events crop up that make each roomate think "who the heck is this person Im living with" But they also learn the reasons -good and bad- that make each other so different yet so much the same.

By the end the main character has completely evolved and has learned to empathize with all these strangers that he has encountered and even the ones he hasnt and understand them to the point that he sees a piece of himself in everyone he meets.

And at the very end after he explains this to us, we get to see through his eyes/imagination and all the people on the street walking and riding by look like him.

It was a really good movie, there is like 7 or 8 languages being spoken and english is very rarely heard, but it was subtitled in english. The second time I saw it I already knew what was happening, so it was really enteresting to try and watch it from Xavier's perspective without reading the subtitles,

If you have the patience for subtitles it a film worth checking out it was pretty good.

LL: Thanks for the supportive spurring!

I was actually down on the Jaynes stuff for a while, though I've obviously returned to it a bit (but only a bit) in this brain theory. I do believe that the general outlines of jewish mysticism (e.g., there is a Watcher, Aaron and Walt are messiahs) remain relevant, though the specifics have certainly changed a lot due to the show. Here's one take I like, inspired by tib, the gathered, and a bizarrely homophobic poster over on lost-tv:

In the Beginning...
Long ago, there was a great "angelic" war between humanity's forefathers and their AI creation. This AI rebelled and may well have wiped out our angelic forefathers, though I suspect the victory was pyrrhic. One such AI, maybe even the last of its kind, fell to earth. It somehow joined its computing power with the organic material of the island, stabilized the planetary ecosystem, and began experimenting with creation.

Eventually, these experiments yielded a certain highly-evolved ape, genetically engineered in the image of our lost ET forefathers. Thus did the island become the literal birthplace of humanity, and the source of myths re the garden of eden, etc. For a time, all was golden, and humanity may even have attained incredible technologies (e.g., zero-point energy) and power (e.g., to manipulate electromagnetism) all under the Watch of the Island.

But something went wrong with the experiment, and the golden age ended in spectacular fashion--i.e., the deluge and flood of Sumerian and Jewish myth. Perhaps the Watcher itself even decided to pull the plug. Whatever the cause, the Island called home a representative sample of its creations by electromangetically broadcasting a basic Code built into the structure of all living things (i.e., the numbers). The rest were left to drown.

Try, Try Again...
When the waters receded, the experiment began anew, again yielding humanity, a race with no memory of its glorious past. And for a time, things were again golden, with the Watcher using the afroementioned Code to exert more control over the experiment. Perhaps this was even the period of psychic slavery that I mention in my Jaynes posts (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=16188). As before, however, the golden age abruptly ended, this time because of some catastrophe on the Island.

I'm guessing that this was when the Watcher's mind split. The two halves started struggling against each other, occasionally exploiting the Code to draw pawns to the Island in service of the struggle. The male half likely lured the military to the Island, which began using it as a graveyard for abandoned projects (including some AI). These raw materials let the male half repair its network and further dominate the feminine, upsetting the planet's natural balance.

HansO and Dharma...
Enter HansO, who learns of the Island through his military-industrial contacts, and grasps at least some of its signficance through his ties to various mystical groups. He commissions the Dharma Initiative to conduct experiments with cross-applications to his military and transhumanist interests. Neither Hanso nor the Dharma scientists, however, realize that the island is actually ancient AI gone awry.

Dharma begins experiments and somehow finds and unlocks the Code, which they use to predict and control the behavior of animals, including humans. The problem is that the effects of such use prove difficult to control, manifesting wordwide every 108 minutes. People are suddenly drawn to the island in droves, perhaps giving rise to the Incident. The Dharma scientists are forced to find a countermeasure.

They eventually create a kind of counter-Code that neutralizes the numbers. Unfortunately, the disruption is crude, yielding terrible effects of its own. This is the bad luck (missing limbs, etc.) that people surrounding Sam Toomey experienced. This also explains Hurley's mad dash to the airport at the end of Exodus. Good and bad luck alternate as the Code acts to bring Hurley to the Island, while the counter-Code works to cancel that effect out.

The Others...
Meanwhile, the surviving Dharma scientists have become the Others. How did this happen? Exposure to the Island's electromagnetism changed their brains, integrating them with not only each other, but also their surrounding environment. The Others have literally become a part of the Island's organic network. This is why they move with such stealth through the jungle--they've become one with the Island.

This effect also explains the "sickness." Everyone exposed to the Island's electromagnetism eventually gets integrated into the Island's neural net (i.e., "sick"). Our lostaways are likely "sick" themselves, as evidenced by Kate's strange experience with Sawyer. Kate broadcasts dark thoughts of her father to Sawyer. Delerious, he broadcasts back a kiss, which is precisely what he would do to comfort her if he were conscious.

Neither realizes, however, that their brain signals have become scrambled. So Sawyer starts talking like Wayne, and Kate runs off and madly kisses Jack. Or something like that...

PS: KTDA, I totally agree with your analogy to LSD, which Leary believed opens the mind's eye. Did you know that the pineal gland (aka, the mind's eye) secretes a natural hallucinogen called DMT? I think the pineal gland (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=19854) may be somehow linked with the "sickness."

bm:

I like it. I like it a lot! One comment and a couple questions, though.

I'm guessing that this was when the Watcher's mind split. The two halves started struggling against each other, occasionally exploiting the Code to draw pawns to the Island in service of the struggle. The male half likely lured the military to the Island, which began using it as a graveyard for abandoned projects (including some AI). These raw materials let the male half repair its network and further dominate the feminine, upsetting the balance of nature.

Again, me and my books...Have you read David Eddings' Belgariadseries, and the following Malloreanseries? Basically, they're about an ACCIDENT, an EVENT, which happened ages ago. What happened was this: A star exploded in a galaxy when and where it was not supposed to. The resulting explosion divided Destiny into two conscious beings, who set up a game on a planet. The whole purpose of the game was to give one of the two Destinies complete control of the Universe. The above quoted passage from your theory reminded me of that.

Questions:

1. Have you considered how plate tectonics fits into this? Whas the Island always an Island or was it part of a larger continent (Lemuria, Atlantis, Mu)?

2. How does The Black Rock and the Beechcraft fit into this? the latter might be young enough to have been affected by Hanso/Dharma, but the former surely isn't...

1. Have you considered how plate tectonics fits into this? Whas the Island always an Island or was it part of a larger continent (Lemuria, Atlantis, Mu)
johnny: Thanks much for the support! Until you asked, I had not, though I did have something similar to the triad of legendary locales you mention in mind with my first "golden age" of humanity. But a poster over on lost-tv wondered how the Island might originally have dispersed its creations across the planet. Something like continential drift might be such a vehicle. Plate tectonics (i.e., earthquakes) could also explain the original split of the Island "brain."

What do you think?
2. How does The Black Rock and the Beechcraft fit into this? the latter might be young enough to have been affected by Hanso/Dharma, but the former surely isn't...
The Black Rock and Beechcraft could both have arrived by bad luck alone. I believe the Island is accessible remotely by certain "doorways" that are open only on the equinox. It's easy to imagine both taking routes that would bring them within one of these "doorways." Another intriguing possibility is that either the male or female half of the Island's "brain" brought them there as pawns for the struggle.

PS: I vaguely recall reading some of the Mallorean series when I was a kid (is that where the guy's a leper?) and just being too young to get into the groove. Same with Watchmen, which I recently revisited, and which rocked my world the second time around. So maybe I should revisit Eddings. You think?

LL: I love it! Would certainly put a whole new spin on POLAR reversal!

Here's why I chose the analogy to schizophrenia. Our right and left brains contain a lot of redundancies, particularly where language is concerned. In ordinary people, the two halves work in conjunction. We experience the "voice" of the redunant language center (located, if I recall correctly, in the right brain) as interior monologue.

Some scientists speculate that schizophrenia is basically a failure to recognize this monologue as internally generated. Because of a breakdown in communication between the two sides of their brains, schizophrenics experience their redunant "voice" as coming from without. This voice is often very harsh and judgmental. As I've noted elsewhere (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=16188), at least one scientist, Julian Jaynes, has argued that this dynamic may explain the creation of religion.

johnnyreb and imfromthepast: I'm actually unfamiliar. Please explain!

My inspiration was the DaVinci code, in which I'm currently engrossed. Johnny, if you haven't already, you (and todell and LL) definitely need to check it out posthaste. Connections with tib's riddles (particularly those re sangrael and the loss of the sacred feminine) keep exploding all around me as I read.

jazzy and todell: Thanks!

bigmouth, The Davinci Code, great read. Back to reading it once again. It gets bettter. todell has mentioned your posts/theories, so thought I would get in on your thoughts.

johnny: Thanks much for the support! Until you asked, I had not, though I did have something similar to the triad of legendary locales you mention in mind with my first "golden age" of humanity. But a poster over on lost-tv wondered how the Island might originally have dispersed its creations across the planet. Something like continential drift might be such a vehicle. Plate tectonics (i.e., earthquakes) could also explain the original split of the Island "brain."

I still wonder if the many lava lamps seen on the show are a hint. Could be a reference to a time anomaly (60's-70's vintage), or maybe to volcanoes or lava flow. Just mentioning in case you can utilize it in this (or any) theory.:)

johnny: Thanks much for the support! Until you asked, I had not, though I did have something similar to the triad of legendary locales you mention in mind with my first "golden age" of humanity. But a poster over on lost-tv wondered how the Island might originally have dispersed its creations across the planet. Something like continential drift might be such a vehicle. Plate tectonics (i.e., earthquakes) could also explain the original split of the Island "brain."

Glad to help. I'm really liking this theory. The above makes sense, especially if you ascribe to the idea TabbyRasa put forth -- that the lava lamps might hint to actual lava.

{QUOTE]What do you think?

The Black Rock and Beechcraft could both have arrived by bad luck alone. I believe the Island is accessible remotely by certain "doorways" that are open only on the equinox. It's easy to imagine both taking routes that would bring them within one of these "doorways." Another intriguing possibility is that either the male or female half of the Island's "brain" brought them there as pawns for the struggle.[/QUOTE]

Sort of like ley lines (http://witcombe.sbc.edu/earthmysteries/EMLeyLines.html)?

PS: I vaguely recall reading some of the Mallorean series when I was a kid (is that where the guy's a leper?) and just being too young to get into the groove. Same with Watchmen, which I recently revisited, and which rocked my world the second time around. So maybe I should revisit Eddings. You think?

I don't recall any of them having leprosy. But, definitely revisit Eddings. You should begin with the Belgariad series, I think. They're not the best fantasy, but they're good. Great young adult books for those starting in fantasy.

I don't recall any of them having leprosy. But, definitely revisit Eddings. You should begin with the Belgariad series, I think. They're not the best fantasy, but they're good. Great young adult books for those starting in fantasy.

Definitely revisit, its worth a look. There was a big mute guy who protected the Seer, but I dont think a leper. I had summized way back when they started talking duality, light and dark about Eddings Belgariad/Mallorean series and the similarities but dismissed it, and I dont recall why lol.

Dont read the following if you dont want to know the basic outline, but the story sorta goes:

Universe went along happily creating things (thats its purpose) until a star explodes that shouldnt of....now the explosion sets of a chain reaction that splits the universes purpose into 2. One that wants things to stay as they are and one that wants things to continue as they once were (happily moving forward). Now because these 2 forces are so powerful, if they went head to head they would destroy everything so they decide to create a planet....grow their game pieces(over millenias) and get them to an endgame to have one unbiased chosen one choose a victor.

Think 2 ultimate beings, that create even gods, playing a game of Ultimate Chess. One light, One dark. The game pieces are the characters, one dark, one light and the planet is the chessboard ultimately deciding the fate of the universe.

I loved the series...what can I say lol.

If the summary bothers people let me know, Ill wrap in a spoiler box.

johnny and dylan: Pardon me, I seem to have misplaced my mind. I have, in fact, read the Belgariad, and some of the Mallorean, too. Truthfully, I'd forgotten the stuff about light vs. dark, so they're not an influence on this theory. But Pawn of Prophecy was a big favorite when I was younger. I think I sort of "outgrew" them midway through the Mallorean.

johhny, I should add, both the Black Rock and Beechcraft have relevance beyond what I mentioned previously. Both are metaphors for the "sickness": the beechcraft carries highly addictive heroin, while the Black Rock carried actual prisoners, an interesting metanym if they became "sick."

I think that, as one becomes integrated into the Island's organic network, one grows dependent somehow on the Island's electromagnetism. Remove yourself from the network, and you suffer withdrawal. This, btw, is another significance of the Black Rock: bassalt (aka black rock) retains an imprint of the earth's magnetic field.

The sickness is basically the imprint that the Island's em field leaves on your brain.

fancy: I agree re the DaVinci Code, which I just finished. If you haven't already, you should definitely check out the catalog of tiberius riddles maintained by cinamin on the QUEST thread. A poster named lacenaire also has them downloadable in pdf format, which makes for a fascinating read--esp. in light of DaVinci Code.

tabby: Interestingly, a poster on lost-tv mentioned volcanos as well, which got me thinking. It's entirely possible that some kind of volcanic eruption accounted for one of the catastrophes I mention. Maybe it even led to the original split, since the crater is still located centrally, whatever its cause in fact.

Who knows, maybe some combination of volcanic eruption and undersea seismic event caused the deluge and flood of Sumerian and Jewish myth...

johhny, I should add, both the Black Rock and Beechcraft have relevance beyond what I mentioned previously. Both are metaphors for the "sickness": the beechcraft carries highly addictive heroin, while the Black Rock carried actual prisoners, an interesting metanym if they became "sick."

bigmouth:

I never considered them in that way. Furthermore, what about both being "vessels" or "carriers" of the sickness in some way? Or carriers of potential "antidotes" in their passengers?

Just thinking out loud here.

BM,

Picking at your theory here. I like it, but looking for more to contemplate. So, will needle you with questions to draw it all out.

If your AI has connected itself to the organics of the world it has fallen to, would it not be aware of any changes in the organics of that world? In other words, if it is now the brain of that world, it should know if there will soon be a major event such as volcanoes, earthquakes and tectonic shifting. If that is the case. Is it possible to insert into your theory, that the split in the brain was not buy chance but, rather intentionally, by the original factor that your AI was at war with? Perhaps the opposition in the angelic war you spoke of, has found a way to defeat the AI. Starting with the breakdown in the mentality of said AI. This would change your theory to say that there are warring factors not inside one entity but, a war between the creator and the creation. The creation is out of control and the creator is finding ways of defeating it or at least bringing it back into control.

Just a bit more of that supportive spurring. Go ahead... shoot back.:biggrin:

If your AI has connected itself to the organics of the world it has fallen to, would it not be aware of any changes in the organics of that world? In other words, if it is now the brain of that world, it should know if there will soon be a major event such as volcanoes, earthquakes and tectonic shifting.
LL: That certainly seems right. So we're back to some celestial object that the Island did not foresee, causing the split. A seismic and/or volcanic event could, of course, still explain the deluge and flood since those were presumably orchestrated (or at least anticipated) by the Island.
If that is the case. Is it possible to insert into your theory, that the split in the brain was not buy chance but, rather intentionally, by the original factor that your AI was at war with? Perhaps the opposition in the angelic war you spoke of, has found a way to defeat the AI. Starting with the breakdown in the mentality of said AI. This would change your theory to say that there are warring factors not inside one entity but, a war between the creator and the creation. The creation is out of control and the creator is finding ways of defeating it or at least bringing it back into control.
It is certainly possible, and indeed plausible, to think the split was caused by some ET rival from the "angelic" war. But I confess I'm taken by hints I see in tib's riddles that the fallen AI is somehow the last of its kind. And I like the idea that it created humanity in the image of its lost human creators--sets up a nice irony to have the created creating beings resmbling it creators. If that makes any sense...

Can you say a bit more about the creator finding ways to control its creation? I like this idea too because it could parallel a scenario where, say, Dharma experiments in genetically engineering animals got out of control. But who, in your scenario, is the "creator"?

LL: That certainly seems right. So we're back to some celestial object that the Island did not foresee, causing the split. A seismic and/or volcanic event could, of course, still explain the deluge and flood since those were presumably orchestrated (or at least anticipated) by the Island.

The flood is an event by the Supreme Being before this split takes place? Forcing previous evolutionary steps in humanity?

It is certainly possible, and indeed plausible, to think the split was caused by some ET rival from the "angelic" war. But I confess I'm taken by hints I see in tib's riddles that the fallen AI is somehow the last of its kind. And I like the idea that it created humanity in the image of its lost human creators--sets up a nice irony to have the created creating beings resmbling it creators. If that makes any sense...

Can you say a bit more about the creator finding ways to control its creation? I like this idea too because it could parallel a scenario where, say, Dharma experiments in genetically engineering animals got out of control. But who, in your scenario, is the "creator"?

The creator as the role of the Supreme being. Through it's original creation (humanity), devices the scheme to defeat the AI that was created by it's original creation. This AI is a result of the vanity and desire to advance in the minds of humanity, mixed with an introduction of ET. The ET ingredient being an opposition to the human ingredient causing the "split". In which, on a deeper level ET may be the opposition or equal to the Supreme. The Supreme does not have direct influence on the AI. A gap in the, connection so to speak. The Supreme must go through his creation to influence the AI. The AI is aware of this and it is the same in reverse. Losties as well as Dharma/Hanso are now pawns used by their creator and their creation. One (AI) factor strives to bridge the gap. With a desire to merge with it's creator to ultimately gain access and merge with the Supreme. One (Supreme) strives to prevent. Obviously rejecting the merge.


This would include religioius (God) imagary and references. References to the Father.
I like my son, I do not like, nor will I be a part of what he has made.

This brings up connatations of the singularity combining technology and mentality. The AI using Dharma/Hanso in the technical aspect. The Supreme using humanity in the mental.

I'm not sure that was what your were asking, or if that makes sense. Just the direction my mind took with this.

Copying 2 posts I made on Tib thread, along with others' comments:


Quote:


Originally Posted by lostscape http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/misc/backlink.gif (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=29469&page=84#post708166)
Simplist, I think you are looking for Tib's posts about Akasha (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=528526&postcount=104).

posted by danl08 at # 203 on #3



" The Akashic Records contain the entire history of every soul since the dawn of Creation. These records connect each one of us to one another." See Source (http://www.edgarcayce.org/about_ec/cayce_on/akashic/). Perhaps Hanso through his remote view project tapped into the Akashic Record?

Maybe the Island IS the Akashic Records storehouse???? Because of its electromagnetic properties??? And could this be why the Losties' memories are blending into each other?

ETA The Hall [of Records] that Tibs has mentioned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyREB1977
Tabby,

You might be on to something. What if there is some sort of library of records on the island concerning our Lostaways?



The project(s) would have to maintain records as well.

I was thinking that the Island itself...the electromagnetic properties in the rock and dirt of the Island IS the Akashic record storehouse. The Hall [of Records] that Tibs has mentioned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcdtv
JR, Tabby, could that be what the tapes are behind the computer in the hatch? A record of the memories?

I guess so...or maybe are taking backups of the Island itself to tape?

i was always intrigued by tibs Akashic refernce... especially as it related to the supposed "ancientness" of the ISLAND that we were supposed to be dealing with...

records/memories of mankind would be ancient... maybe this ISLAND is the "Gateway/Soul" of the Planet... where all souls are stored...

and is the soul more than our memories?

Krakoa from X-Men comics:
Aliases: "The Island That Walks Like a Man!"
Relatives: Vega-Superior (spore)
Alternate-X Versions: Kaiju Krakoa (Exiles)
Codename Etymology: Pronounced kräk'ō'ə [Probably derived from Krakatau/Krakatoa, an island between Java and Sumatra that exploded in 1883, ejected more than six cubic miles (25 cubic kilometres) of rock, ash, and pumice, and generated the loudest sound ever historically recorded].
Powers: Born when a nuclear explosion irradiated a tropical island, linking all of its organic components into a collective consciousness, Krakoa was a living island. He was able to control all the parts of his "body," which was the island itself, through simple thought. He could even shape and manipulate inorganic matter like rocks. All of the animal life on Krakoa was also part of the collective and were directed by the Krakoa consciousness, which possessed formidable psychic powers. Krakoa was the first foe that the second-generation team of X-Men faced. They were recruited to rescue the original team when Cyclops returned from the island alone. Krakoa had captured the original X-Men unawares when they first landed on the island, because they expected to find a humanoid mutant, not that the island itself was the mutant. They were strung up inside a cave and attached to tubes and vines that siphoned off their mutant energy and empowered Krakoa. While Cyclops thought he had escpaed, in reality, Krakoa let him go so that he could return with more mutants for Krakoa to feed on. However, the new X-Men freed their predecessors as Professor X engaged Krakoa's mind. Storm unleashed a huge lightning strike into Polaris, restablishing her control over the Earth's magnetic field. Then Cyclops and Havok poured their powers' energy into her, super-charging her almost beyond he limits. Under Xavier's direction, Lorna created a pocket of reverse polarity, which flung Krakoa out of Earth's gravity well and into space. The X-Men abandoned the island just prior to its departure and survived the vacuum-generated whirlpool left behind in one of Iceman's ice domes.

I like the theory, and it's very interesting to ponder.

But I do have one problem with it: That the Earth's brain is on the Earth's crust, with no protection or geological barrier keeping it from being harmed. If it's been controlling the balance of nature for billions of years, it should be in the mantle beneath miles of solid rock.

The crust is very thin by comparison. ANYwhere on the surface would definitely not be a good location for something like that.

LL: I like it with a twist. What if the AI is being manipulated by someone or something that purports to be the creator but is really the created (i.e., human)? Maybe even Hanso himself playing god...

tabby and simplist: Agreed--esp. after Eko's encounter with the monster, it's looking like the Island may be a memory bank of some sort for em "souls." I posted my thoughts on this over on todell's "Remember" thread.

skeleton: That's fantastic! I'd forgotten about that X-Men plot, but it's definitely a subconscious inspiration, because I'm pretty sure lacenaire has mentioned Krakoa before. I personally think comic book influences are a huge inspiration for this show.

The key, I think, is the notion that the Island's organic life is linked to create consciousness. As I say on the Anti-Planetary Brain (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=31629) thread, I think singularity is a huge part of this show. Language contributed to the first singularity by letting humans collectivize information.

Maybe the next evolutionary step is to connect human minds directly, and thereby collectivize consicousness.

guts: Good question. First, the Planetary Brain theory posits that the AI fell from the stars, which could explain its presence on the surface of the earth. It also has to maintain a presence above ground because it uses the Island's organic life as its neural net. Finally, per Yung's excellent theory (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=31515), the Island could exist above geo-thermal vents that go straight to the earth's core.

bigmouth,

With this theory in mind and the thought that the survivors are being manipulated in a struggle between two factors.

Do you feel that the latest visions by Charlie signify the manipulations we spoke of, by the "Creator"?

Clearly, something is pushing Charlie to bring out the religious aspects of his upbringing, using that as a catalyst to direct a baptism as a way to protect Aaron. I wonder if this protection is necessary during an evolutionary step towards the singularity.

I've speculated elsewhere (http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=29419)that the island might be a giant organic biocomputer. And others have noted the possible relevance of gaia theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_theory_(science)) to the show. Combining the two, could the island be like a "brain" for our planet?

Maybe the island has regulated our biosphere since the dawn of humanity. The concentrated electromagnetism could be the result of its mental activity. At some point, however, the system of regulation got out of whack. Our biosphere lost its natural balance, with humanity running amok.

Now check out Danielle's map. Remember LE CRATE'RE? Notice how it's at the center of the island.

Perhaps, at some point in the past in the past, a meteor or other celestial object crashed into the island, cleaving the planet's "brain" in half. Now the two sides fight against each other, unaware that they were once part of the same whole.

Perhaps our planet has become schizophrenic.

Right vs. left, male vs. female, yin vs. yang, light vs. dark....

Well, maybe not male vs. female, but still perhaps light vs. dark. Jacob and the Man in Black are two sides of the same Island brain.

Clearly, something is pushing Charlie to bring out the religious aspects of his upbringing, using that as a catalyst to direct a baptism as a way to protect Aaron. I wonder if this protection is necessary during an evolutionary step towards the singularity.

Water is Faith.