Anyone else think Claire should DIE? [Archive] - { Flicks N Shows | Fringe Division | Red Panda Resources

Princeex86

01-12-2006, 01:55 AM

banshee

01-12-2006, 02:01 AM

I love it when main charecters die!

I really want jack to go, but I'll settle for any of the big 10!
speakith for thyself then lol because I want Jack to stay & don't want to lose any more of our talented cast.

Charlie lied to Claire, & as a new mother you will be protective of your child. It's really as simple as that. She definitely doesn't deserve to die. Especially because when you think about what Charlie has gotten angry at others for-feeling like ppl were keeping secrets from him, that he was sitting at the kids table etc,. he of all ppl should understand why she's upset.....I think it'll work out in time but ,imo, Charlie was using his father role to Aaron to distract him from his drug use. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but he has to deal with his issues so he doesn't need something to keep him from drugs vs. being able to do it on his own. He'll be a better caretaker to Claire/Aaron when he takes care of himself. And maybe after awhile, Claire will try to help him. Right now I think she's just hurt & looking out for the baby.

HelloooClareece

01-12-2006, 02:26 AM

Claire, IMO, should have talked to Charlie instead of turning her back on him. He saved her baby, and almost died because of her. The least she could have done was show him forgiveness. My opinion of her has changed.

davereese

01-12-2006, 02:40 AM

Well, let's look at if from the other side. Charlie convinced Claire to go to the caves. Charlie said he would protect her but she got kidnapped anyway. He read her diary without her permission. He killed the kidnapper so the couldn't figure out what he was up to with Claire. He didn't protect Aaron from Danielle. He has had an addiction to heroin and though he has "kicked", so to speak, he still caries around a statue full of heroin - in fact as we find out at the end of 23rd psalm - and keeps a stash of multiple statues full of heroin in secret from everyone else. He's smothering to Claire and he's presumptuous of his place in telling Claire how a mother should act - which is, coincidentally or not, always done in a way that demeans Claire's capabilities as a mother.

So, I don't think Claire is being unreasonable. She's already been in a situation where someone encouraged her pregnancy and then left her with nothing. What's to say Charlie likes playing house now but in a short amount of time - after Claire and Aaron have become emotionally attached to Charlie - Charlie doesn't get sick of playing Daddy. Or worse, what's to say that Charlie's tendency to find fault with Claire's mothering skills doesn't increase and eventually move from mild verbal rebuke to degrading rebuke to actual physical violence. Or what's to say when the pressure get's to tough, then he won't relapse.

As you can tell, I don't think it's so one-sided. In fact, I think Claire is showing a proper level of discretion and caution.

dave

come on, seriously, after all charlie did for claire since being on the island, the fact he had drugs is going to totally turn her away from him? whats he going to do, give heroine to the baby?

i mean list of things charlie has done for claire:

getting her water
helping her with her tent
carrying her bags
almost getting killed trying to protect her
got hit in the head with bag of rocks and gunpoweder burned inhis forehead to get her baby back
takes better care of her baby than she does

and alot of other small stuff im forgetting and she dumps him like that? i mean shes a real idiot.

oh, you know dont even think about the fact he may be dangerour when he aKILLED someone.....no...its the DRUGS that are totally the wrong thing....jez what a ditz

but then again, she is the moron who got with a guy who would obviously leave her, didnt use protection had a kid she was gonna give up and got on a plane because a weirdo told her to. seriously, SHE SHOULD DIE NEXT, just kill her already. all she is is eye candy, her character is terrible DIE DIE DIE DIE. lol

but on a serious note. she sucks. i mean, charlie is teh shiznet.

Tater Salad

01-12-2006, 02:48 AM

when charlie needs someone to be there for him and believe in him she coldly turns her back on him? thats why i think she should die. she was a cold hearted vincent.

When you have a child, your first born child, come back and post about why Claire should die.

No matter what happened in the past in regards to Claire wanting to give the baby up for adoption. She loves her baby. She has known Charlie for 45-50 days. Not even two months. For her to trust a man with as big of a problem as Charlie has, is a big deal for a mother. Especially, when she just found out he's been lying to her.

When you have a baby you are very protective of it. Placing your newborn baby in the hands of a drug addict is not smart. Placing your newborn baby in the hands of a drug addcit who is hiding the fact that he is addicted to heroin is just plain stupid.

spackidagoosh

01-12-2006, 03:04 AM

I disagree. I speak as the proud new father of a 6 month old and Charlie has done alot more for Claire than anyone else on the island. Add that to the fact that Claire knew of Charlie's previous drug use. Charlie deserved the benefit of the doubt.

Oggie

01-12-2006, 03:09 AM

come on, seriously, after all charlie did for claire since being on the island, the fact he had drugs is going to totally turn her away from him? whats he going to do, give heroine to the baby?

i mean list of things charlie has done for claire:

getting her water
helping her with her tent
carrying her bags
almost getting killed trying to protect her
got hit in the head with bag of rocks and gunpoweder burned inhis forehead to get her baby back
takes better care of her baby than she does

and alot of other small stuff im forgetting and she dumps him like that? i mean shes a real idiot.

oh, you know dont even think about the fact he may be dangerour when he aKILLED someone.....no...its the DRUGS that are totally the wrong thing....jez what a ditz

but then again, she is the moron who got with a guy who would obviously leave her, didnt use protection had a kid she was gonna give up and got on a plane because a weirdo told her to. seriously, SHE SHOULD DIE NEXT, just kill her already. all she is is eye candy, her character is terrible DIE DIE DIE DIE. lol

but on a serious note. she sucks. i mean, charlie is teh shiznet.

No, I dont think Claire should die. Unfortunately she is dead on, but for the wrong reasons. She threw Charlie out because she thought he was using drugs (At this point I still think he isnt, but I wouldnt be surprised if I was wrong on that), the real reason she should throw him out is because he's becoming obsessive and posessive. His overprotectiveness twords a baby that isnt even his, his judging and bossing of Claire, and now his stashing of a horde of the statues/with Heroine in them.

Charlie's personality is breaking down, he runs around demanding respect from everyone. He wants to be in the loop. When all he has to do is actually BE in the loop to get the respect he wants. If Charlie keeps following the path he is taking, he's going to end up doing some very bad things.

God's tom

01-12-2006, 03:21 AM

Lija

01-12-2006, 03:28 AM

I stopped giving Charlie the benefit of the doubt when he stood beside Eko at the burning plane & joined him in praying the 23rd Psalm - all the while with the drug statue in his possession. If he was in any way repentant, he would have thrown it in the fire, & asked eko to help him destroy the rest of his stash.

My thoughts exactly! While it was burning, I was yelling at the screen, "Throw it in, Charlie, throw it in!"
He didn't listen. *grin*

Funny how you can almost tell who the parents are in this thread by what they write... .

piscescat

01-12-2006, 03:41 AM

I think Claire simply doesn't need another man in her life who's going to let her down. I think she's right to put her baby first before her friendship with Charlie. He lied to her - that's huge. He's an addict - that's huge too. I don't think she's been irresponsible with Aaron, simply inexperienced. Who else is a parent in the group? Weirdly, no one except Michael and he hasn't given her any baby tips. (He did parent Walt in his infancy and toddlerhood.)

Hopefully they can reconcile in time, but for the story, it's more interesting to have them not reconcile. Charlie has some demons to deal with and that'll take time. Seems he was doing ok until they discovered the Mary statues. Temptation is tough for an addict. At least so far it seems he hasn't used again but you know it's hanging over him and as the pressure mounts it's going to be harder to resist.

kingkamloops

01-12-2006, 03:45 AM

Charlie is a recovering heroin addict and Claire is just cold, cold,cold.And a basketcase, but Charlie needs her support to get over his addiction. It seems that Claire cares less for Charlie than Charlie for Claire. He's done nothing but help Claire.She seems to want to do nothing but push him away lately. So let her cover her own butt 4 a while.If she wants to be left alone send her to the bunker and quit depressing everybody. ain't i a meany?!LOL Charlie is gonna get worse before he gets better just wait

cowichan_cutie

01-12-2006, 04:08 AM

... The worst part is Charlie is still shifting blame for his actions to others. He blamed Eko for Claire finding out, he blamed Liam for his being a junkie. He'll probably blame Claire now for his decision to use the drugs. She needed to send him away and he needs to get help.

The only reason I'm disappointed by her decision is that I thought this would be an opportunity for her to return some friendship and maybe help him instead of just turning him out. Charlie really needs some support right now and after all he's done for her, I was hoping it would be Claire.
my thoughts exactly!

do we know that charlie's using again? no. but everyone (claire and people on this thread) are jumping to conclusions that he is.

it's pretty typical for addicts to lie and to never to take responsibilty for their actions (believe me). and once addicts (of any description, drugs, booze, food, gambling, etc) go clean, they are always recovering. 20 years clean, and they are recovering. and charlie, as a recovering addict, is figuring all of this out on his own. he has no treatment centre, no NA meetings, no methadone, and now, no support from his closest friend, a friend who he has helped enormously.

addicts need support, not judgement and rejection.

addicted2much

01-12-2006, 05:47 AM

I liked Claire in this episode. It's nice to see her stand up for herself and not be the poor girl with a baby.:smile:

Dezdemona

01-12-2006, 06:07 AM

She has no reason to forgive Charlie at this point. He lied to her. We were shown just how bad he lied when we saw his stash. She was justified in not wanting him near her or her child.

He is dangerous. Plain and Simple. Until he is clean he needs to stay away from her and her child.
:shesaid:

Charlie's drug problem isn't about Claire, and it won't be her fault if he goes back to using again. He needs to take responsibility for himself, which he apparently hasn't begun to do since he's still blaming his brother for getting him hooked in the first place.

I disagree. I speak as the proud new father of a 6 month old and Charlie has done alot more for Claire than anyone else on the island. Add that to the fact that Claire knew of Charlie's previous drug use. Charlie deserved the benefit of the doubt.
Befefit of what doubt? He was flat out lying when he told her he didn't even know the drugs were inside the statue, and she was right not to believe him. Why should she trust the next thing to come out of his mouth? Sorry, but she behaved in the only way that made sense, IMO.

Heartless_child

01-12-2006, 06:41 AM

Claire should NOT die because she will forgive Charlie eventually and he will get rid of the drugs for good. Then Charlie will be back to his old self, when the next Charlie or Claire centric episode comes up it will most likely happen then, because if one of them died it would just ruin Lost for me.

Snabbygail

01-12-2006, 07:17 AM

I think it will be nice to see Claire stand alone on her own two feet. A single women can raise a child without the help of a man. Charlie hasn't been much of a man lately has he? It really got me when Charlie pulled back the brush and we see his stash of Mary statues. I thought "That little creep". All this time playing house with Claire and then squireling away drugs. You don't keep a pile of drugs unless some where deep in the back of your mind you intend to use them. Anyway, my point was that I think I'd like to see Claire raise the baby more on her own. She's more confident as a mother now.

pacejunkie

01-12-2006, 07:56 AM

He kept that stash of statues for alot of complicated reasons. The main reason probably being that he didn't trust himself to not screw up his life and that he knew eventually he would get to a place where he would want them again. Like he said, having them around made him feel safe. They are a safety net for the inevitable moment when he messes things up, which he always believed he would do. Trouble is, this kind of thinking only creates a self fulfilling prophecy, because now that the stage is set, all he needs is a bad day for an excuse and he's off and using.

MaggieRyanJr

01-12-2006, 08:04 AM

I think the show is bold when it kills characters, but I also feel sad because it limits storylines. I am glad that there is now conflict between Charlie and Claire. For a while, when the spotlight shone on Jack, it seemed that Claire and Charlie's character arc consisted of sliding into the blissful new parent roles. I find it far more interesting now that they are in conflict. Not only does Claire barely know Charlie, she is leery of his choices in the past and fearful for the safety of her baby. And Charlie is only clean and sober for a few weeks, he must feel pressure and fear as well...

nonyabizwaz

01-12-2006, 08:24 AM

Wow! I've never read a thread where I want to comment on so many different comments! I

What gets me is that he must have been going back to that plane and stocking up.

Honestly im surprised he hasnt partaken yet.

come on, seriously, after all charlie did for claire since being on the island, the fact he had drugs is going to totally turn her away from him? whats he going to do, give heroine to the baby?

.

Do you seriously think she dumped him because she thought Charlie would give the baby heroin?? Come on. There's a reason they don't let people who are under the influence of drugs or alcohol drive or fly planes, etc. Their judgement is affected. Why would she let Charlie take care of the baby if his judgment is impaired?!

Claire did the right thing, but goodness, she didn't have to be so heartless about it. She's going to drive him right back to to the smack!

Come on. You really think he was hoarding all those statues for nothing?! He's going to partake regardless. He's just looking for an excuse. Someone to blame other than himself. Just like he did when he told Eko it was his brother's fault for getting him addicted.

I agree. I think hopefully Charlie will not start using againor stop using if he does. And he will go talk to Claire or something.

Charlie WILL use again. This is TV. Whenever there is an addict in a show and the storyline is about his addiction and subsequent recovery...it is a given that the addict will once again go back to the addiction. It would be nice if Lost strayed from that recipe, but I don't think so.

I think Claire needs to learn how to forgive.

It's not about forgiveness. It's about the safety of her child.

Anyway we'll get a Claire flashback soon so maybe we'll finally get back to whatever the heck happened to her when she was kidnapped for a week!

Ya think? I'm thinking we have to go through all the flashbacks of the new tailees first. And about 3 more each for Jack and Kate before we see one of Claire's again. :biggrin:

I stopped giving Charlie the benefit of the doubt when he stood beside Eko at the burning plane & joined him in praying the 23rd Psalm - all the while with the drug statue in his possession. If he was in any way repentant, he would have thrown it in the fire, & asked eko to help him destroy the rest of his stash.

Good catch!

Charlie is a recovering heroin addict and Claire is just cold, cold,cold.And a basketcase, but Charlie needs her support to get over his addiction. It seems that Claire cares less for Charlie than Charlie for Claire. He's done nothing but help Claire.She seems to want to do nothing but push him away lately. So let her cover her own butt 4 a while.If she wants to be left alone send her to the bunker and quit depressing everybody. ain't i a meany?!LOL Charlie is gonna get worse before he gets better just wait

Claire will do fine without Charlie.

I think a lot of posters are confused. Just because you have the hots for the little troll we call Charlie ;) doesn't mean he's always right!

Charlie will return to heroin because that's what's being set up in the storyline. But I also believe he will get better again.

As for Claire dying, I don't think that will happen just yet. Maybe she will disappear somehow for a while. The psychic's warning was said for a reason. The baby MUST be raised by her. You know we all want to know why. And the only way we'll find out why is if she DOESN'T raise the baby. So, for that to happen is for her to be out of the picture. Whether she'll be out of the picture temporarily or permanently, I don't know.

Whew. Done. Carry on with the debate!

pippyn1

01-12-2006, 08:43 AM

[quote=Tater Salad;700815]When you have a child, your first born child, come back and post about why Claire should die.

I personally find it very bold to assume that just because somebody doesn't agree with the general Charlie-bashing, that this poster may not have a child.

On another note, of all the posts I've read in this thread people keep saying that they wouldn't want their child to be near a drug addict and so on and so forth...but I think we shouldn't forget that these survivors are not living under normal circumstances and we all can't even imagine what it would be like to survive with strangers in a deserted place. I don't believe that too many rules of normalcy and regular society are possible to be implemented. As for secret keeping and lying and that being a trust issue, shouldn't everybody on this island not trust anybody? They all lied in the past, they all kept secrets, some killed, one applied torture and they all just try to survive on the island. As for Charlie keeping the drugs, hm...as for now we can only assume if he has or hasn't taken any of the drugs. We don't know for sure, but as a person with a cigarette addiction I have to say personally I get bervous if I don;t have cigarettes around, but when I have them hear I can go for a long time not having any but the thought of them being around for the time when I want one is comforting. I know it's weird but just trying to think about the way Charlie might deal with this.

As for main characters dying, I understand that sometimes the storyline requires change in character and actors having other obligations and opportunities, but I simply hope that LOST will not end up with the flaw of some other shows that by season 3 or 4 you end up having none of the characters that you liked, disliked, cheered for and dispised left and being dealt a new hand of characters even before you were able to explore the original characters.

Now there, here are my 5 cents worth...not trying to flame or anythign like that...just posting an opinion

P.S: And I do have a firstborn :-)

pacejunkie

01-12-2006, 09:03 AM

Monkey

01-12-2006, 09:49 AM

I have children too, and one of my best friends is a former heroin addict, and this may sound crazy but I would trust her with my children. I know she is really a good loving person that had a hard life and made bad choices, but she hurts herself far more than she hurts others. I guess I'm really saying that when you know someone well enough, you may decide they're okay to have around despite the drugs. I know my continuing support and friendship was very important to her over the years, and she always kept her drug issues separate from us, although I knew they were there. And there were times she would lie.

Maybe Claire just doesn't know Charlie well enough yet to be able to make that decision and be there for him. I think Charlie is very much like my friend in that he is more a danger to himself than others.

FORMER. That's the key word.

Claire caught Charlie in a bold face lie about not knowing what was in the statue. So why should she believe him when he says he hasn't used it? As far as she knows he is at the least a recovering drug addict in possession of drugs. HOw can she know if he is clean? She can't so she has to protect herself and the baby first. And while I wouldn't stop being friends with Charlie or try to help him, I still wouldn't really want him living with me.

Cluck

01-12-2006, 09:49 AM

Even though it has been obviously a majority decision that Claire did the right thing.... I just have to add my opinion because Claire DID do the right thing.... Not only is Charlie a drug addict that hasn't worked through his issues yet... but he has also become very creepy and almost compulsive obsessive about Claire's baby... which she did imply to Locke in a previous episode.

but then again, she is the moron who got with a guy who would obviously leave her, didnt use protection had a kid she was gonna give up and got on a plane because a weirdo told her to.

Okay Prince I can respect anyone who has an opinion and you are entitled to yours, but in my opinion the part of your posting shown above is a bit of lets say... a stretch. (and I must add ...a little offensive). We don't know that she didn't use protection, and it takes TWO to tango... and the guy did tell her that he wanted the baby so it wasn't that obvious that he would leave her.

Okay... she did listen to a weirdo who told her to get on a plane... but maybe that can be explained by hormones or something.

Regardless, a drug addict has to work out their issues and learn to love and respect themselves before it is healthy to take care of and love and respect someone else including a child.

SHE DID THE RIGHT THING

.

LiK

01-12-2006, 09:58 AM

Cluck

01-12-2006, 10:01 AM

i hope her character does something useful other than whining and holding a crying baby, she's getting annoying like shannon. seems like her baby will be more important to the plot than her

maybe she'll be the next to die, just my opinion
Charlie whines a LOT more that Claire does.... do you think he is getting annoying too? Or are you just stereotyping women as whiners

Slopster53

01-12-2006, 10:03 AM

She's right to boot him, he's stashing heroine in the woods for chrimmeny's sake.

LiK

01-12-2006, 10:12 AM

Charlie whines a LOT more that Claire does.... do you think he is getting annoying too? Or are you just stereotyping women as whiners

dude, don't accuse me of anything :mad: ... all i said was SHE was whining and i said shannon was annoying, i hate charlie too but SHE hasn't done anything useful at all in the series. a useless character. stick to the the topic..it's called 'Claire should Die'

why don't you keep your personal attacks to yourself...

Cluck

01-12-2006, 10:23 AM

dude, don't accuse me of anything :mad: ... all i said was SHE was whining and i said shannon was annoying, i hate charlie too but SHE hasn't done anything useful at all in the series. a useless character. stick to the the topic..it's called 'Claire should Die'

why don't you keep your personal attacks to yourself...

Hey jeez chill out.. sorry buddy... it wasn't a personal attack.. just a couple of questions.

LiK

01-12-2006, 10:34 AM

Hey jeez chill out.. sorry buddy... it wasn't a personal attack.. just a couple of questions.

alright, let's move on...

Cluck

01-12-2006, 10:38 AM

alright, let's move on...

OK LiK - I am really sorry if I came off as insulting... totally didn't mean to do that

pacejunkie

01-12-2006, 10:39 AM

Did anyone notice this little bit of foreshadowing? I thought it was interesting that instead of Claire saying to Charlie that she didn't want him near the baby or taking care of the baby she said, "I don't want you sleeping anywhere near the baby", a very specific concern. We know from the press release and pics of Charlie's episode in two weeks that he might do something with the baby while sleepwalking or in a dream state. Claire's statement foreshadows this perfectly.

LiK

01-12-2006, 10:43 AM

OK LiK - I am really sorry if I came off as insulting... totally didn't mean to do that

cool, it was a misunderstanding, it's my first day posting here, i dunno what everyone's posting sensibilites are yet...let's continue our speculation :cool:

LiK

01-12-2006, 10:44 AM

diabolo237

01-12-2006, 10:44 AM

LiK and Cluck, lets play nice. No need to argue, everyone has an opinion.

Baileysdad

01-12-2006, 10:45 AM

alright, let's move on...

Everybody take a breath and relax. Personal attacks wether vaugue or imagined are still personal to the person involved. Let's remember not everyone agrees with our logic on certain things. This thread was reported to the mods so I wanted to step in and tell everyone it's group hug time and to keep the debate civil and on topic or we will have to either close or give warnings.

Thanks to all for making this such a great site.

LiK

01-12-2006, 10:47 AM

Everybody take a breath and relax. Personal attacks wether vaugue or imagined are still personal to the person involved. Let's remember not everyone agrees with our logic on certain things. This thread was reported to the mods so I wanted to step in and tell everyone it's group hug time and to keep the debate civil and on topic or we will have to either close or give warning. Thanks to all for making this such a great site.

yup, we're fine now, thanks.

Laurieg

01-12-2006, 10:57 AM

Why was Claire wrong to push him away? He has been making her question her role as a good mom for a little while now. She brought that up to Locke. Now she finds out he has been hanging on to the herion. Mr. Judgemental has a few issues of his own. Which I'm sure pissed her off. After he has made her question weather or not she is doing right by her own son at times.

He is over bearing towards her because of that need he has to take care of someone. To do it right. Claire is starting to feel a closed in by this.

It was the perfect excuse to make him back off.

Is it going to be Claires fault if he uses the herion? NO if they were in the real world, he would face hurt feelings and disappointments all the time. He would relaps, like most addicts do.

He can not stay clean based on well things are going with Claire. It's his addiction. It's his job to stay clean for NO ONE but himself.

jackMEsawyer

01-12-2006, 11:20 AM

I would never allow a drug addict with drugs in their possession near my kids.

Ditto!
She is being a "Responsible Mum" and thinking about her baby's well being.
If Charlie were to use unknowingly to Claire and she took the chance letting him around her baby...something could happen she would be to blame allowing it.

I would take NO chances with my child.

I think she did right. Charlie apparently has issues still (the friggin stash of drugs in his little hiding place). He is not trustworthy.

Overshot

01-12-2006, 11:27 AM

I wish I could remember the thread/post I made a long time ago concerning how I thought it wrong to let a junkie care for an infant...

crookshanks

01-12-2006, 11:34 AM

Yes. I've thought so for a while. She only had one back-story and her only purpose on the island right now is her baby. She was very evil to Charlie. Except for Aaron, her character is doomed.

elfdream

01-12-2006, 11:42 AM

I think its pretty much agreed that Claire was RIGHT to tell Charlie to go away. She is upset that he lied, upset that he has the drugs and has the safety of her baby to consider and she just isn't thinking straight. She gave a pure and emtional reaction.

And in the end it will be good for Charlie as well even though he doesn't see it now. He might well use again, even blame Claire but the thing is... he has to use the old cliche 'hit rock bottom' and acknowledge all of his responsiblity in this mess. He took the drugs because he WANTED to...not because Liam held a gun to his head!

And I'm sorry. Charlie is not a dirty rotten scoundrel. He was a good guy before the drugs. He was decent, responsible and tried to do the right thing. He is now an addict and addiction is a DISEASE. Look it up. He's going to have to struggle with this for the rest of his life..but the thing is there is hope that he can come through this and be the decent person he once was. He is just going to have to go through some really rough times now and I don't mean physical withdrawl. He's going to have to face his own feelings and demons without drugs and without Claire/Aaron to distract him and that is NOT going to be easy.

I would hope that if he makes an honest effort to clean up that Claire will support him and remember that underneath all that there is a good and decent guy who did so much for her struggling to come out.

mommamia

01-12-2006, 11:44 AM

I wouldn't let any tweaker near my babies, no matter what they did for me.

It's my children, their safety that matters most in the world.

elfdream

01-12-2006, 11:46 AM

I wouldn't let any tweaker near my babies, no matter what they did for me.

It's my children, their safety that matters most in the world.

But would you feel the same after they cleaned up? If they went to meeting every week and showed responsiblity for their actions ?

I would.

pacejunkie

01-12-2006, 11:50 AM

But there are no meetings to go to on the island. How is Claire ever going to know that he is trustworthy (if he ever becomes trustworthy)? Even at the end he was still lying to her, he just apologized for lying earlier because he was trying to worm his way out of trouble but he's still keeping secrets with that large stash of his.

elfdream

01-12-2006, 12:00 PM

That's where the drama comes in. How on earth is Charlie going to become clean in his present situation? How will he regain the trust of his friends?

FabFourLover

01-12-2006, 12:02 PM

First of all, I totally agree with the folks in here who say Claire did the right thing getting Charlie away from Aaron. As a mother, I totally understand her reasons for wanting to keep him away. She only has his word he isn't using and he admited himself he was an addict. I would have done the same thing.

However, what annoys me about Claire is her total lack of respect for Charlie's privacy. Before she knew about the herion, she told both Locke and Eko about the Virgin Mary statue Charlie had. Then she took Eko and showed him the statue.

Why this bothers me is this. A episode or two ago she complained to Locke that she and Charlie were "raising" Aaron and she didn't "remember marrying him". I AM married and I wouldn't go into my husbands private space and take something of his to show someone else without his permission unless I thought it was something dangerous, which at the time, Claire did not know.

When she was having her conversation with Eko ( and earlier with Locke) she should have said something like this:

Cliare: Oh, are you religious? You should talk to Charlie
L or E: Why?
Claire: I don't know, I just get the feeling he's really religous.

OR, if she found it necessary to mention the statue, when Eko asked to see it, she should have said..."I'm sorry, if you want to see it, you'll have to ask Charlie" For someone who feels Charlie has somehow invaded her life uninvited, she is a classic pot calling the kettle black. Just IMHO

connrick

01-12-2006, 12:11 PM

I am not annoyed with Claire. Charlie has basically made it his "priority" to raise Aaron. WHO ASKED HIM?? Claire sure didn't ask him. She even told Locke that Charlie treats her and Aaron as if they are married.

He's a junky!!!! For him to say that Claire needs to learn how to be a "Mum" is embarrising. Stay away from Claire and go do your heroin.

Jin is trying to catch fish and he is Singing?? Help the guy out. Jin gave him a look like What the ---- are you doing here??

What is his role on this island?? I am happy Claire shouted him out. If not Claire it would of been Locke.

lookinLost

01-12-2006, 12:16 PM

McGuane

01-12-2006, 12:26 PM

While I am unlikely to ever be "annoyed" at Claire for anything, I did notice she was awfully forthcoming with Charlie's spiritual info.

I blame the writing. It was very obviously a quick and easy way to get the statue info to Eko. A shortcut that did make Claire look blabby

terriblylost

01-12-2006, 12:27 PM

Onoe other observation about Claire though------I thought she looked too made up-----a little too heavy-handed on the make-up---just my ho

I had the same thought, especially when the short clip showed Libby and Hurley (:) Libby and Hurley, hum). But hey, I am sure they have makeup which was looted from the baggage and maybe they just felt like cleaning themselves up and getting pretty. Maybe they had taken showers at the bunker.

I was kind of annoyed at Claire for how she treated Charlie. I mean they are on crap hole island for God's sake, everybody needs to cut everybody else a little slack. I men A.L. killed someone and looks like everyone is well on their way to forgiving her. But I see where Claire might over react a little too, having her baby kidnapped, being kidnapped herself, losing her memory. I am sure she doesn't know who and how much she should trust when it comes to Aaron.

DangerKitty

01-12-2006, 12:31 PM

It's not like Claire rifled through his backpack. Charlie had the thing hanging out of it at one point and she saw it. When she tried to ask him about religion, he blew it off. Maybe she thought she was helping Charlie by putting the seemingly very religious Eko with Charlie to discuss it. I dunno, if I was stuck on an island for all that time, I would probably yammer on about any ole thing.

TylerBear

01-12-2006, 12:33 PM

i agree that claire did the right thing, for so many reasons! it doesnt matter if she's a mother that understands her infant or not, it IS her baby, and she will be protective. it doesn't matter how much Charlie has done for her. I know a man that beats his girlfriend, verbally abuses her, but he does a lot for her also... should she give him the benifit of the doubt everytime he tries to get better? That situation is without a child... now add an infant to that picture. I would trust a former addict, i have actually, but the second i hear or see that thier soberity is in jeapordy, they will not have contact with my children.

his stash raised a couple of questions for me. One... he couldn't remember how to get to the plane?? he HAD to have gone back a few times, and not just at night. another lie... this shows me that the statue doesn't just give him security. second..a stash of the statue is smart if he does plan on using again. he'll always have a "whole" mary statue to further his lie about not using. especially since claire knows he has one and is very protective of it.

just a couple thoughts... glad the wait for new eps is over!

Slopster53

01-12-2006, 12:34 PM

Not annoyed with Claire, Charlie has had the boot comming for a while now. The virgin mary stash in the jungle just confirms her worst fears. A question, do we think Charlie has been using again since finding the plane, or is he still grappling with that decision? I don't remember him acting particularly high?

Cluck

01-12-2006, 12:34 PM

I dont' know maybe Im wrong but I see it just as casual conversation and not blabbing. For example, if you saw someone with buttons on that said "I love democrats" and you knew a friend who was a democrat... would it be blabbing to say.. "hey you should talk to my friend, he is into democrats too!"

I chose politics because some people feel that is a personal issue as well.

Sleestak

01-12-2006, 12:45 PM

Onoe other observation about Claire though------I thought she looked too made up-----a little too heavy-handed on the make-up---just my ho
I laughed out loud when I read this. I know the h-o at the end means humble opinion but thats not how I read it at first.:biggrin:

ExistentialAngel

01-12-2006, 12:56 PM

I think Claire acted as a caring, protective parent should. She's already had her baby kidnapped once....she can't take any chances. I mean she only knows Charlie from what she has observed these few weeks on the Island and what he has told her..........

Onoe other observation about Claire though------I thought she looked too made up-----a little too heavy-handed on the make-up---just my ho

Agree on both points. I wondered what the make-up crew was thinking... Normally you can barely tell that any of them have make-up on, was it a matter of bad lighting or were they covering something? If it'd been her dressing up for some reason, I think it would've been mentioned, even if it was just, "Oh, check out this make-up I found... "

I dont' know maybe Im wrong but I see it just as casual conversation and not blabbing. For example, if you saw someone with buttons on that said "I love democrats" and you knew a friend who was a democrat... would it be blabbing to say.. "hey you should talk to my friend, he is into democrats too!"

I agree, and I don't think it was nearly as personal as Charlie telling Locke that Claire was going to give up her baby... which wasn't given to Locke to improve his opinion of Claire. It wasn't as personal as him reading her diary either.

irish lost fan

01-12-2006, 12:58 PM

I think claire was perfectly right to throw charlie out. She probably did not want to because her and charlie are so close but you cant have a heroin addict hanging around a baby especially since he didnt tell her bout the heroin in the statue. I mean what if Charlie was high on heroin and was minding baby aaron at the same time Charlie might decide to bring aaron for a swim or something resulting in sometin disastrous. Claire had to throw him out for her babys sake at least till she can be sure that he is not using but that looks unlikely now after viewing his stash.

All of the same i thought dom and emilie did great acting in the show last night it was a very good episode.

God's tom

01-12-2006, 01:30 PM

I've been annoyed with Claire for some time now. It seems to me thtat whenever someone tries to get too close to her, she gets defensive & hostile. I just dont like how she can be so sweet & innocent at one moment , & turn pure b**** at a moment's notice.

That being said - I think Charlie got what he deserved. I can see him going on the rebound, & getting interested in Libby - creating a rivalry between him & Hurley.

pacejunkie

01-12-2006, 01:34 PM

his stash raised a couple of questions for me. One... he couldn't remember how to get to the plane?? he HAD to have gone back a few times, and not just at night. another lie... this shows me that the statue doesn't just give him security. second..a stash of the statue is smart if he does plan on using again. he'll always have a "whole" mary statue to further his lie about not using. especially since claire knows he has one and is very protective of it.

He was doing everything he could to avoid getting to the plane, so yes, he was lying the whole time.

Also, did anyone else notice when he was adding the last statue to the pile that he was handling it like dynamite? At first I just thought he was being extra careful with it because it was something he cared about but then I realized it reminded me of when Hurley fished the dynamite out of the tree. He was handling it like he was afraid it would explode, meaning if he broke it accidently he knew he couldn't resist using it and he was afraid of that.

elfdream

01-12-2006, 01:40 PM

I noticed his care of it. I wonder if he is relunntant to break it because of his Catholic past?

He is just mixed up at the moment. Conflicted..and still in denial. The man is in desperate need of a harsh wake up call. I think Claire's was just the first step.

I think everyone everywhere agrees that Claire was right to pull the plug on Charlie.

She's a mom..he lied..etc etc.

Charlie won't realize this for some while but its a good thing for him as well. He needs a severe wake up call.

I thought it was a bit funny that Claire was 'busting' Charlie all over the place. I myself thought perhaps she should have at least hesitated before showing Eko the statue...something to the effect of "I don't know..that IS Charlie's and perhaps we shouldn't mess with it'

However in the end this was a GOOD thing as well since there needs to be an end to the secrecy.

I note that Eko had respect for Charlie though..he replaced the one he smashed.

The thing that made me bit my lip was when she threw Charlie out and then bent over her son..cooing over him in front of Charlie KNOWING FULL WELL HOW CHARLIE FELT ABOUT AARON! I'm sure it was like a stab to his heart..and I felt sorry for him right at that moment.

That one little moment ... was just enough to set me off.

jimocean

01-12-2006, 01:57 PM

I love The Beatles.

pacejunkie

01-12-2006, 05:43 PM

I thought it was a bit funny that Claire was 'busting' Charlie all over the place. I myself thought perhaps she should have at least hesitated before showing Eko the statue...something to the effect of "I don't know..that IS Charlie's and perhaps we shouldn't mess with it.

I thought that was funny too. She must have had a sneaky feeling something was wrong about him having this statue even though she couldn't imagine what. It was obviously nagging at her.

I'll note that Eko had respect for Charlie though..he replaced the one he smashed.

Interesting. I didn't see that as a sign of respect, but after Charlie demanding respect from him the jungle, you may be right.

Eight

01-12-2006, 05:47 PM

I love Claire. I'm glad she got rid of that scuzzoid Charlie. Now we can be together . . . once she gets off that craphole island. :biggrin:

Joshypoo

01-12-2006, 05:53 PM

I wouldn't want a lying herion addict around my baby! Sorry Charlie lovers!

elfdream

01-12-2006, 05:54 PM

Actually most Charlie lovers agree with you. She should have pushed him away and whether he will admit it or not.. and its also for his own good.

domslady07

01-12-2006, 06:04 PM

Actually most Charlie lovers agree with you. She should have pushed him away and whether he will admit it or not.. and its also for his own good.
Thank you, What She did was the right thing it's called Tough Love and Weather he is back on The Drugs or not , He will have to make that choice weather he wants the Herion or the two Most Important people in his Life and My hope is that Charlie will choose Claire and Aaron in the End .

nonyabizwaz

01-12-2006, 06:58 PM

Jin is trying to catch fish and he is Singing?? Help the guy out. Jin gave him a look like What the ---- are you doing here??

Um. What?

Princeex86

01-13-2006, 10:31 PM

first off, contraty to someones assumtions, I would like to say that I am a father. I have a 2 year old son, and I know what it is like to be protective of him. Given the situation claire was in, I probably would have done the same thing, ill admit that. however, i would not been nearly as cold as that.

First off, no one can deny that charlie has done ALOT for claire, despite the fact he has issues of his own, he has done alot for her. And she has needed his help, because she really doesnt seem to be able to handle her own life. (i mean look in their pasts, she had a 5 dollar an hour job at fast food, charlie had a hit single)

that besides the point though. Charlie does care about claire, and in my opiion hes done enough for her and been nice enough to her, for her to care about him too. she should at least. I know shes hormonal and a mother and all that, but she was way to harsh on him.

i ALSO happen to believe, that she didnt really boot him for the reason of the baby, i believe she booted him cuz she was angry at him for bashing her mothering skills, and she was prolly looking for an excuse to dump him. I mean, i know he lied to her, that was wrong of him, i know he has drugs, (may or may not be using it) thats wrong too, and its true, that he prolly should have stayed away from them out of his own judgment until he burned all the dope. but....claire needs to grow up.

Charlie, has proven to be a better parent than her, i know its not his child but he has. he also has given claire alot of needed breaks, otherwise she would have had to handle the baby herself. I know that my wife would have gone insaine if i didnt help her with the baby when we had him. (heck, he almost drove me crazy and my wife did alot more for him than I did. lol)

Charlie risked his life to get her baby back cuz she was too useless to go herself. charlie almost died trying to save her. and he broke his back to help her. this does not excuse his addiction, but it gives him points in my book. unlike some here, who seem to think like old school relgion with "only one sin and you go to hell!!" i believe in looking at the good and the bad, and some of the more reasonable people in this thread do also.

if I was in that situation as claire was, I would have explained that I cared about the person, and i feel for them, but I could not allow them near my child while they were in the sturggle. and i would probably also offer my help, at times when my baby was taken care of by others who i could trust more in their care. i mean, the way she was to charlie made it seem an awful lot like "go away i want nothing to do with you" and THAT is wrong. keeping the child safe, is right, but giving him the total boot after everything is not. a lie and an addition is no reason to overlook everything else the guy has done.

also people hwo keep saying "she hardly knows him" shut up already. when your stranded on an island with someone for 50 some odd days, and spending almost all that time with them, you'd get to know them alot better than you prolly know some of your good friends in real life.

I know this because one time I got lost in the woods in Vermont. We were climbing, with a group pre assigned (as in didnt know any of them) and we got lost. only out there for one night, but in that night, i became very close to those people. and I am still good friends with most of them today. thats ONE NIGHT. imagine 50???

charlie however, should have burnt the stash, and should have stayed away on his own accord for the babies saftey, i think he was wrong for that. he needs to grow up some as well, and work things out. I do think he is on the right path though, and claire being cold didnt help him.

now for claire:

im sorry claire lvoers, but she is a totally useless character to the series and always has been. The first season she was pregnant for most of it, and the times she wasnt pregnant she was whinning and yelling that he baby was taken. or that she didnt know how to be a mother (she admits it!) and in the second season, all shes done is carry the baby and complain about charlie acting dady. she has done NOTHING productive for the whole series except give birth to Aron. and unless the series goes on for 20 years, thats prolly not going to matter much either, cuz were more than likly never gonna see him grown.

frankly theres nothing going for her, she either has to get with charlie or die, in my opinion, cuz other than getting with charlie, (OR SOMEONE) she has no purpose.

she really does not know how to be a mom. charlie is right in that area (though he has quite a bit to learn himself id say)

but personally, i find it odd, that people can forgive those who killed people, yet they cant forgive people who use drugs. have we forgotten that sayid tortured sawyer here? people dont seem to have a problem being around him? and hes a trained soldier who could do quite a bit of damage. and thats TORTURE. people dont mind being around AL and she killed shannon (thank god) people dont mind that charlie killed someone....no...its the drugs that bothers them. lol i think alot of peoples priorities are really screwy. and alot of people who are saying claire is totaly in the right are prolly defensive mothers. theyre both wrong. thats the truth.

but claire should die cuz she gives nothing to the series, and the fact she was cold to charlie just makes her uselessness all the worse.

theres not ONE good thing about her, other than shes hot. seriously.

Jenn

01-13-2006, 10:48 PM

I would agree more with Claire if I thought she was doing it more for Charlie's own sake or her baby's. But I personally think she was acting out against him in a way she knew would hurt him...like he hurt her.

I mean her methods are actually right, an addict usually has to reach rock bottom before they ever really get better. But I suspect that wasnt her intention. I mean I wouldnt want a drug addict around my baby, but if it also happened to be someone who risked his life to rescue my baby I wouldnt kick him out so cruely.

Either way I could understand why that would be her reaction, but I personally would have been a bit less antagonistic about it.

elfdream

01-13-2006, 10:53 PM

bport132

01-13-2006, 11:38 PM

Charlie rescued the baby??? I distinctly thought Sayid rescued the baby and Charlie tagged along and slowed him down.

Princeex86

01-13-2006, 11:49 PM

Charlie rescued the baby??? I distinctly thought Sayid rescued the baby and Charlie tagged along and slowed him down.

true, but she wasnt yelling "GET HIM BACK SAYID" was she? and sayid also didnt take a thing of rocks to the head and get burned with gunpowder for her baby did he?

RiverTheBald

01-14-2006, 12:01 AM

Claire was right to kick Charlie out, she just could have been nicer about it.

Something that seems to be getting left out is that Charlie should not have gotten involved with Claire in the first place. Why? Because depending on where they go, recovering addicts are taught not to have any relationships for a specified amount of time because if they do... it's almost like trading one addiction for another. Which is still unhealthy.

And then if something happens with that new relationship, the addict will most likely go right back to the drug they are addicted to. As Charlie did.

I like Charlie, he's one of my favorite characters but he needs to stand on his own for a while before he looks for anything from Claire.

P.S. Anyone who refers to Charlie as a "tweaker" or pokes fun at him because of his addiction should be ignored in this thread... because either they don't care that it's the same thing as poking fun at someone with AIDS or any other lethal disease.

bport132

01-14-2006, 12:18 AM

Princeex86

01-14-2006, 01:05 AM

Charlie took a pile of rocks to the head because he didn't see the trap. He let Sayid burn him with gunpowder so that he could get CREDIT for helping rescue the baby. Charlie makes great effort to APPEAR helpful moreso than he actually supplies effective help.

yeah, im totally sure thats exactly why he did that. people who want attention and are that selfish are always willing to get their heads burned and go through excrutiating pain just to seem helpful.

your just a charlie hater if you honestly belive that. he let himself get burned with powder, because he wanted to press on, so he could get the baby back. because he cares greatly for claire and for the baby. sure he does wanna seem important, but who doesnt?

he may not be the most helpful person on the island, but he does care about claire. hes not a shallow person who just wants attention and really doesnt care about anyone else. he has issiues, but hes not cold.

slickfifty

01-14-2006, 02:52 AM

Claire is (or should be) deep into primordial, maternal protective mode;hell everyone on the Island should be into semi-paranoid semi-primitive survival mode by now. She would naturally gravitate towards the biggest strongest, most able male among the survivors she could to help her protect her child. Strangely, that was why I thot she was striking up a friendship w/Eko. She instinctively KNOWS that Charlie is not going to be strong enough to help her with Aaron. The heroin was just the last straw. She was bitching about him to Locke, plus I think the simple fact is Charlie loves her but she doesn't love him.

davereese

01-14-2006, 04:36 AM

OK, what has Charlie done?

1. In Pilot, he tags along to the cabin of the plane and manages to fall when they are running from the "monster" making Jack come back and save him. Somehow, Charlie ends up getting back to Kate before Jack and has no idea where Jack is - so Kate has to go looking for him

2. Charlie goes with the signal party where he adds nothing to the party other than trying to impress Shannon that he used to be in DriveShaft and acting like a giddy schoolkid when he hears Danielle's radio message.

3. In a pathetic attempt to impress Shannon, Charlie goes about trying to catch a fish. Once he gets the fish, Shannon pretty much humiliates him since it's obvious she was just using him

4. Action man Charlie runs up to Jake, waking him, to tell him that there is someone out in the water in trouble. Charlie can't go because he doesn't swim. Later, Charlie and Hurley tell Jack the water supply is getting low. After Claire faints from exertion - the water is all gone.

5. Charlie manages to step on top of a bee hive and then, despite being warned by Locke not to move, proceeds to move and cause the bees to swarm out. Then Charlie has to have Locke point out that his guitar is right above his head.

6. Going through withdrawel, Charlie can't play his guitar and manages to "help" move luggage by spilling open a bag and trying to steal the diazpam. Jack catches him. Later, Charlie throws a fit in the caves when (by coincidence?) the cave has a cave-in. Finally, Charlie does do something useful - he makes it through the a small tunnel to reach Jack, unpins jack and figures out that they are close enough to the top of the turf to climb through.

7. Charlie convinces Claire to go move to the caves even though Claire doesn't want to go.

8. Claire begins having nightmares about her baby being stolen. Charlie offers to stay with her and protect her. When Claire decides to leave and go back to the beach, Charlie isn't there. Charlie does track her down but then leaves her alone again to go get Jack after Claire has ONE contraction.While going back for Jack, Charlie runs into Ethan and tells him about Claire.

9. Charlie protects Claire by getting strung up and hung from a tree. Luckily, Jake the miracle maker manages to get Charlie's heart beating again. Once conscious, Charlie knows nothing to help anyone find Ethan or Claire.

10. Charlie rummages through Claire's personal effects looking for her diary. When he can't find it, Kate leads him to Sawyer who Charlie slugs. Sawyer admits to Kate he didn't read the diary. Charlie does read the diary, though. Claire manages to make it back to camp without any of Charlie's help.

11. Ethan returns and pins Charlie to a tree - telling him that if he doesn't bring Claire back he will kill a person everyday, leaving Charlie for last. Charlie goes back and tells Jack to find out what to do. He doesn't tell Claire what's going on even though she asks him. Later, after a death in the camp, Claire figures out the Charlie has lied to her about what is going on. Then, with Claire agreeing to act as bait, the gang of five (Kate, Sawyer, Jack, Locke, and Sayid) that actually know how to use a gun set out to catch Ethan. They manage to capture him but in the struggle, Charlie who wasn't supposed to come along gets a gun and kills Ethan before they can figure out who he was, what he was doing, and what he did to Claire.

12. Charlie fails to understand that Hurley is acting weird and just blithely let's him go to find Danielle. When jack and sayid figure it out they immediately go after Hurley. Charlie decides to follow along. Hurley walks across a rope suspension bridge fine but when Charlie walks across, the bridge manages to break leaving it so that Jack and Sayid are seperated from Hurley and Charlie. Shots ring out and Charlie runs away and loses Hurley. Luckily, Hurley mets Danielle and gets a battery and info about the numbers from her.

13. Charlie makes a nuisance of himself while Jack is trying everything possible to save Boone's life. Then he is unable to find out people's blood types. Then, when info comes in that Claire is going in to labor Charlie flies into action - arriving to Kate to tell her that she will have to deliver the baby.

14. Charlie promises Claire that with him watching out for her, no one is going to take her baby away from her.

15. While taking the baby for a walk to give Claire some rest - Charlie can't get the baby to quit crying. It takes Sawyer reading to the baby to calm the baby.

16. Danielle comes out of the jungle and tells Charlie she needs Sayid right now. Charlie leaves Claire alone with Danielle, who then takes the baby.

17. Charlie goes with Sayid to rescue the baby. He slows Sayid down, has to rest, comes across the Virgin Mary heroin statues, gets hit in the head by a booby trap of rocks, makes Sayid waste more time by cleaning up and cauterizing Charlie's wound,

18 Charlie begins to berate Claire's mothering skills while hiding his secret heroin stash out in the open in the Virgin Mary statue.

19. Charlie starts getting jealous when Locke spends time with Claire and shows her how to swaddle the baby.

Yeah, Charlie is a winner.

dave

first off, contraty to someones assumtions, I would like to say that I am a father. I have a 2 year old son, and I know what it is like to be protective of him. Given the situation claire was in, I probably would have done the same thing, ill admit that. however, i would not been nearly as cold as that.

First off, no one can deny that charlie has done ALOT for claire, despite the fact he has issues of his own, he has done alot for her. And she has needed his help, because she really doesnt seem to be able to handle her own life. (i mean look in their pasts, she had a 5 dollar an hour job at fast food, charlie had a hit single)

Arad

01-14-2006, 05:33 AM

The correct answer here is definitely that they are BOTH a little immature.

Charlie still has problems with honesty about his addiction. He's distraught. In an inner battle. He doesn't know how to be totally truthful.

Claire is relying on instinct because, quite frankly, that's all that is working for her. If she's greatful for Charlie's help, she hasn't shown it much.

They both have their severe flaws that, as of now, are really becoming detrimental to their relationship.

kingkamloops

01-14-2006, 07:16 AM

:biggrin: it's all part of charlie's master plan to get the Others hooked on heroin...that's why he saved all those statues.:biggrin:

nonyabizwaz

01-14-2006, 07:39 AM

Wow! Don't hold back! Tell us how you REALLY feel! :)

I didn't like the coldness of her behavior either but I put on blinders and told myself it was because she was young..and she seems to have a bit of a temper and 'reacts' rather than thinks things through.

Reading this made me wonder...do you think Claire has a history of addiction somewhere in her past. Not necessarily her, but perhaps a family member? Maybe her father? We have only had one flashback on her. Perhaps time will tell...

The thing I don't understand is that if people really love this character they should want him to get better. He wasn't going to get better until he had some kind of wake up call to knock him out of the denial he's living in. It might be painful but sometimes a peson needs just that.

Claire's kicking him out (although I didn't like her method) wasn't just good for her baby..it will in the end be good for Charlie. Eventually. He might use some first but I think he will come around.

Woohoo! At last! Thank you!

OK, what has Charlie done?

1. In Pilot, he tags along to the cabin of the plane and manages to fall when they are running from the "monster" making Jack come back and save him. Somehow, Charlie ends up getting back to Kate before Jack and has no idea where Jack is - so Kate has to go looking for him

2. Charlie goes with the signal party where he adds nothing to the party other than trying to impress Shannon that he used to be in DriveShaft and acting like a giddy schoolkid when he hears Danielle's radio message.

3. In a pathetic attempt to impress Shannon, Charlie goes about trying to catch a fish. Once he gets the fish, Shannon pretty much humiliates him since it's obvious she was just using him

4. Action man Charlie runs up to Jake, waking him, to tell him that there is someone out in the water in trouble. Charlie can't go because he doesn't swim. Later, Charlie and Hurley tell Jack the water supply is getting low. After Claire faints from exertion - the water is all gone.

5. Charlie manages to step on top of a bee hive and then, despite being warned by Locke not to move, proceeds to move and cause the bees to swarm out. Then Charlie has to have Locke point out that his guitar is right above his head.

6. Going through withdrawel, Charlie can't play his guitar and manages to "help" move luggage by spilling open a bag and trying to steal the diazpam. Jack catches him. Later, Charlie throws a fit in the caves when (by coincidence?) the cave has a cave-in. Finally, Charlie does do something useful - he makes it through the a small tunnel to reach Jack, unpins jack and figures out that they are close enough to the top of the turf to climb through.

7. Charlie convinces Claire to go move to the caves even though Claire doesn't want to go.

8. Claire begins having nightmares about her baby being stolen. Charlie offers to stay with her and protect her. When Claire decides to leave and go back to the beach, Charlie isn't there. Charlie does track her down but then leaves her alone again to go get Jack after Claire has ONE contraction.While going back for Jack, Charlie runs into Ethan and tells him about Claire.

9. Charlie protects Claire by getting strung up and hung from a tree. Luckily, Jake the miracle maker manages to get Charlie's heart beating again. Once conscious, Charlie knows nothing to help anyone find Ethan or Claire.

10. Charlie rummages through Claire's personal effects looking for her diary. When he can't find it, Kate leads him to Sawyer who Charlie slugs. Sawyer admits to Kate he didn't read the diary. Charlie does read the diary, though. Claire manages to make it back to camp without any of Charlie's help.

11. Ethan returns and pins Charlie to a tree - telling him that if he doesn't bring Claire back he will kill a person everyday, leaving Charlie for last. Charlie goes back and tells Jack to find out what to do. He doesn't tell Claire what's going on even though she asks him. Later, after a death in the camp, Claire figures out the Charlie has lied to her about what is going on. Then, with Claire agreeing to act as bait, the gang of five (Kate, Sawyer, Jack, Locke, and Sayid) that actually know how to use a gun set out to catch Ethan. They manage to capture him but in the struggle, Charlie who wasn't supposed to come along gets a gun and kills Ethan before they can figure out who he was, what he was doing, and what he did to Claire.

12. Charlie fails to understand that Hurley is acting weird and just blithely let's him go to find Danielle. When jack and sayid figure it out they immediately go after Hurley. Charlie decides to follow along. Hurley walks across a rope suspension bridge fine but when Charlie walks across, the bridge manages to break leaving it so that Jack and Sayid are seperated from Hurley and Charlie. Shots ring out and Charlie runs away and loses Hurley. Luckily, Hurley mets Danielle and gets a battery and info about the numbers from her.

13. Charlie makes a nuisance of himself while Jack is trying everything possible to save Boone's life. Then he is unable to find out people's blood types. Then, when info comes in that Claire is going in to labor Charlie flies into action - arriving to Kate to tell her that she will have to deliver the baby.

14. Charlie promises Claire that with him watching out for her, no one is going to take her baby away from her.

15. While taking the baby for a walk to give Claire some rest - Charlie can't get the baby to quit crying. It takes Sawyer reading to the baby to calm the baby.

16. Danielle comes out of the jungle and tells Charlie she needs Sayid right now. Charlie leaves Claire alone with Danielle, who then takes the baby.

17. Charlie goes with Sayid to rescue the baby. He slows Sayid down, has to rest, comes across the Virgin Mary heroin statues, gets hit in the head by a booby trap of rocks, makes Sayid waste more time by cleaning up and cauterizing Charlie's wound,

18 Charlie begins to berate Claire's mothering skills while hiding his secret heroin stash out in the open in the Virgin Mary statue.

19. Charlie starts getting jealous when Locke spends time with Claire and shows her how to swaddle the baby.

Yeah, Charlie is a winner.

dave

Okay. To summarize, what you're saying is: Charlie is Gilligan. :biggrin:

LovingEmilie

01-14-2006, 07:45 AM

you crazy??

Claire is the best!!!

elfdream

01-14-2006, 10:50 AM

Let's see..what has Claire done?

1. Got pregnant to begin with a doozy of a boyfriend.

2. Went to a spooky psychic.

3. Went back to the same psyhic even though he was harassing her instead of calling the police on him.

4. Got on a plane when she was eight months pregnant.

5. Was sad because 'no one would look her in the eyes'. Maybe because every was struggling with their own survivial issues. Dhu-uh. Oh..and Charlie helped her with her luggage and brought her water.

6. Refused to go to the caves where there was fresh water and a doctor so Charlie had to bribe her to go.

7. Honestly believed she was attacked in the caves and goes off back to the beach ALONE? Charlie at least went with her even if he couldn't be of much help.

8. Screamed at Charlie to GET JACK and so he left her alone even though she believed she had been attacked.

9. Came back without her memory. Big help. I know..people will give her a pass for her 'trauma' but not Charlie. I guess people get over being hanged and nearly dying by the next day.

10. Didn't go around and try to find if there were other mothers on the island who could help her! Instead she whines while her baby cries so Charlie has to take it to find something to quiet him down and he finds Sawyer and evidently pesters the relunctant Sawyer to help out.

11. When the warning about the others comes she fusses about not being able to get ready and carry the baby at the same time. Honey..you grab your baby take what you can and RUN!

12. Is mad when Charlie tells her the truth about waking the baby up and running toward someone who is screaming!

Now I will say all of this is tongue in cheek. I actually LIKE Claire and I don't want her to die..but there are two ways of looking at every situation. I honestly don't think she the clueless person I just outlined here..but like Charlie she is young..immature..with a LOT on her plate. Charlie is clueless but I think deep down he cares about Claire..and I think Claire knows that. He just needs some realy tough love right now and Claire really needs to bond with her baby without distractions.

Cluck

01-14-2006, 11:16 AM

Under the what Charlie has done post by davereese which I totally loved, you forgot one:

20: Treated his best friend on the island, Hurley, like a total jerk twice when Hurley tried to tell him the truth about him being a lottery winner and then again regarding the peanut butter incident.

I don't see how Hurley can like Charlie at all... he treats him like dirt.

I know Claire has not contributed much but at least she hasn't made things worse like Charlie repeatedly has.

ladyrune24

01-14-2006, 11:36 AM

i agree that charlie is having problems, but heres the thing.......charlie hasnt DONE any of the drugs he has. heres the thing people, i have never done drugs in my life, but I have had friends who i have helped recover from drugs. and the absolute worst thing you can do is kick them away. [QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]

No, as far as WE KNOW, he hasn't but he has started the lying about them and hiding them again which means she'll never know when to trust him.

[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]what charlies said was true, having it there, makes you feel safer, when you have the option TO DO the dope, it helps you make the decision to not do it. its when the option isnt there for oyu, when you dont have a choice in the matter, that you start to get the withdrawel, sometimes the thing your resisting has to be there so you know your resisting it.[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]

As true as that might be, it also makes it very convenient to fall off the wagon or have just one more "for the road." Which returns to the trust issue that he himself ruined.

[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]
frnakly i can see all the parents here saying "no one with drugs is comign near my kids" but your thinking of that from your own point of view, not claires. most of you are probably responsible parents, claire has no clue wtf she is doing in parenting, she would be a parent if she could read the side of a condom package. and she was going to give it away. the way she did it didnt show concern for her kid,[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]

NOW whose being way harsh?!! Just because she's a first time mom doesn't mean that she can't be responsible. On top of that, how many first time single moms who find out their child might be come something that scares the bejesus out of a psychic wouldn't have thoughts of adoption? HELLO! I give her great responsiblity because she didn't go out and have an abortion and move on like a lot of people do when things don't work out right, especially when the father dumps you less than halfway through your pregnancy. Plus, when you're planning to give it up for adoption because you think two parents would be better than you on your own, that's responsibility too because you are thinking what's best for the baby considering you are still going through carrying it to term then labor to have it. IF YOU BELIEVE ANY MOTHER WOULD DO THAT, THINK AGAIN! THEN CHECK OUT THE ABORTION RATES.

After she crashed and up until she had the baby, of course she was trying to distance herself from it, considering she was going to give it up then you find out someone's trying to take it from you. Didn't anyone understand why she didn't name the baby until it was taken? She was trying to reduce the hurt when she lost the baby, like anyone would do, but she couldn't! Hence her panic when Aaron was taken. An irresponsible parent wouldn't have cared! IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A RELIEF! Claire didn't react that way. SHE WANTED HER BABY BACK!

[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749] it showed more that she was angry that charlie lied, and more of an ecuse to get him away so she could feel important inraising her child. [QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]

What a crock! It showed how protective she was. Heck, yes, she was angry. If you are any kind of parent, you would be, but she already knows she's important to her child. It's been confirmed by the psychic and all of the other castaways, except Charlie who constantly criticizes her and undermines her confidence repeatedly.

[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]she doesnt know what shes doing, as it was proved charlie knows more about raisiing the kid than she does.[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]

How in the world do you figure that? What has he done that is so much better than she has, other than preach to her? He couldn't even stop Aaron from crying. He had to have Sawyer read to him. That was Sawyer, not Charlie. Charlie just begged Sawyer to keep reading. That's an important part of child rearing <tongue in cheek>:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]and dont give me those "well its not his right its her child" issiues, because too many times i have seen that as an excuse when people beat their kids or have them living in pig pens and when goodhearted people come in to help they get "its not your place not your kid" meanwhile no one thinks of what is best for the child.[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]

The minute I see her beat Aaron or put him in a boar pen, I'll be in agreement. Of course considering she was more concerned with changing his diapers and getting him to sleep than making her own escape to the caves, I don't see that happening.

[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]personally claire has not shown me she is a good mother. for starters second, it seems that her baby saftey is an excuse just to get even with charlie for lying to her. [QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but don't you think you should support this with an instance when she intentionally put her baby in danger before making the accusation? Or just admit that your feelings for Charlie/Dom won't allow you to see he might be wrong and you're helping him blame other people for what he's responsible for?

[QUOTE=Princeex86;700749]are you all forgetin that charlie saved her baby? hello? "GET HIM BACK CHARLIE!!" when she needed him but when he needs her, when charlie needs someone to be there for him and believe in him she coldly turns her back on him? thats why i think she should die. she was a cold hearted vincent.

HELLO! CHARLIE DIDN'T GET AARON BACK!! I REPEAT, CHARLIE DIDN'T DO IT!! Charlie was there. SAYID IS THE ONE WHO GOT AARON BACK! Sayid figured out where Danielle was going and LEAD Charlie to her. Sayid even patched Charlie up when Charlie set off the booby trap that Sayid told him not to touch. Sayid convinced Danielle to HAND OVER AARON THEN handed Aaron to Charlie so that he could look good in Claire's eyes. And how does Charlie repay Sayid? By telling all who will listen how HE, Charlie, saved Aaron! But of course you'll probably say it was Sayid's fault that Charlie didn't save Aaron, right? Because Charlie, a recovering addict, needs the benefit of the doubt no matter how many times he might screw up because that's the fault of the people around him that won't continually understand him and support him until he gets them killed.

:redface: <pant, pant, sorry, rant over now, breath, breath> Sorry, but I get so tired of everyone blindly defending Charlie and not taking into account what's really going on, like CLAIRE'S POST HORMONAL STATE AND THE FACT THAT CHARLIE BETRAYED HER TRUST. If she seemed excessively anger, maybe it's because she stuck on an island in the middle of the south Pacific with little or no hope of rescue with child-kidnapping "Others" and monsters, plus her trusted friend has been withholding an IMPORTANT piece of information from her.

BTW, I do believe if it was for the fact that she's a single mother with the responsibility of raising Aaron in extremely dangerous circumstance (I.E., if she was free and single with no responsibilities), she would be there for Charlie and a lot more forgiving and understanding.:smile:

elfdream

01-14-2006, 01:13 PM

First off calm down. :)

Second I have seen only a few posts of people who blindly defend Charlie. Not EVERYONE is blindly defending him. Most are saying that Claire SHOULD kick him out for many reasons. The safety of her baby (even though Charlie has not shown any inclination that he would harm Aaron in any way), the trust issues..this is the second time he's lied to her...and the Charlie lovers just need to face that fact that Charlie NEEDED it.

I do not though understand the harshness that is directed toward Charlie. Its as though some think he is evil incarnate or something. We have seen that he was a good guy before the drugs..he was a good guy after he burned his drugs..right up until he found the new stash. Then his behavior started to spiral downward again. No..he wasn't the most perfect responsible person on the island but then..none of them fit that description..not even Jack. He had annoying habits and mannerisms but then..who doesn't?

He might annoy us and we might think him useless on the island (an idea I find interesting. We are all supposed to live our lives in such a way and learn certain things 'just in case' we are stranded on a desert island so we can be of some use? I'm sure a musican from Manchester Englahd had LOTS of oppotunities to do just that.

Face it..most of us would be 'useless'. That's the point of the show. How would people survive such a thing they were NOT ready for?

Claire was right..but at the same time Charlie is NOT a lost cause.

elfdream

01-14-2006, 01:15 PM

I don't see how Hurley can like Charlie at all... he treats him like dirt.

Because Hurley is a better person than we are.

lostcasts

01-14-2006, 01:49 PM

I kept thinking about how unkind everyone was being to Charlie. The sense I got was that he hadn't dropped off the wagon, but his stash showed that he's dangerously close to doing so. He even says in the episode, having it close made him feel safer. Remember people, we're not talking about being addicted to tic-tacs, we're talking about heroin.

But I left this episode thinking clearly... if someone doesn't help him, he'll fall off the wagon. So where is anyone to help him? Claire isn't concerned with helping him. Locke was, but in sort of a weird way. I hope someone steps up with some heart to help him out. In this last episode, everyone was just trampling on him, and he's not even started using again!

ladyrune24

01-14-2006, 02:08 PM

This last ep was not everyone trampling on him. It was Eko trying to find his brother and having a hard time getting Charlie to help him. The minute that Charlie showed him the plane, Eko changed his manner with Charlie and even replaced an item that Eko took from him. Eko didn't judge Charlie and even included Charlie in his brother's cremation.

As far as I could tell, Eko and Charlie bonded with the "my brother is the reason I'm involved with this stuff" thing. If Charlie, especially after knowing Eko's a priest, askes Eko for help, I'm positive that Eko will be there for him. Hurley will be there for him. Jack and even Locke will be there for him, if they didn't have to run after Mike who has a slightly more pressing problem. I count at least five beople besides Claire off hand that will help him if he will just ask and let them.

I even believe that Claire will be there for him if she has time away from Aaron. Claire's initial anger and reaction is based on the fact that he was hiding and lying to her about the statue. She feels betrayed and like she can't trust him, just by herself. Add the responsibility of Aaron, his condescending tone towards her role as a mother, their current circumstances and her elevated hormone level = huge explosion.

She knows that Charlie is trying to help her and has been a big help. Eventually, when she calms down, she will help him as much as she can, but trust, when a baby's life is involved, will be a lot harder to come by.

If anyone was jugded harshly in this thread, based on the title, it was Claire. Most mothers and fathers I know would have acted similar in those circumstances.

eTux

01-14-2006, 03:01 PM

Claire's actions were understandable, but I think many fail to see the point why and are just scratching the surface with the "I wouldn't want a drug addict by my child". It's a valid reason - but when have things been as simple as that?
Still with me? So here goes - Charlie has done quite a lot of things for Claire indeed - he shot the person who wanted to harm her and her baby (Ethan), he was there during Aaron's birth, he went on Aaron's rescue mission, he helped Claire take care of Aaron, he got her peanut butter ( ;) ) - and I'm not going to mention all the stuff before her amnesia. You can say that he hasn't been overly succesfull at many of the tasks, but, hey - it's the thought that counts, right? ;)

While Claire is not sure how she feels about him - it's quite obvious that he's the person that cares the most for her. Whom she can trust the most, as many of the other survivors are avoiding her (from what we can judge, anyway). So I think finding out the person who you've trusted and cared for (somewhat, at least?) has lied to you - which is a pretty big thing - would be a big disappointment, downright humiliating even. Who can you trust, if even the ones closest to you can't be honest with you? I think she's trying to protect both herself and her baby from that as well as the posibillity that he might fall for the contents of the virgin Mary statue again.

And then there's Charlie - who doesn't take responsibilty for his actions - shifts it on others. He hasn't gotten over his addiction problem yet - only used Claire and Aaron's company and apparent need for him as a substitute for heroin - up until now, at least. So it will be pretty interesting to see where the storyline develops for both of them from now on.

Bottomline - neither Claire nor Charlie are perfect - they're perfectly flawed though - which means there's plenty of room for character development, and that's one of the things LOST is loved for, isn't it? :biggrin:

Oh, and I totally agree to the person who said Hurley is a better person than the rest of us :biggrin:

Laurieg

01-14-2006, 04:00 PM

There is also the simple fact that he was crowding her. Scolding her like a child when it came to Arron. Like she said it's like they are playing house only she doesn't remember getting married. Well if that is the feeling she is getting from him, then he was being far to vocal about how he feels about things he has no say on.

I think the herion was the perfect way out for her.

elfdream

01-14-2006, 04:34 PM

I don't know...the last few episodes we haven't seen Charlie with Claire. We've seen him with Hurley..we've seen him walking through the woods talking to Kate but we haven't seen him with Claire for quite some time. I don't think he was 'crowding' her as much as people say he was.

He was being bossy though...and I find it odd that as outspoken as Claire is why she just didn't call him on it earlier. She said she doesn't remember marrying him..that's true. So why wait for an excuse like heroin to tell him to back off?

pacejunkie

01-14-2006, 05:47 PM

I find it odd that as outspoken as Claire is why she just didn't call him on it earlier. She said she doesn't remember marrying him..that's true. So why wait for an excuse like heroin to tell him to back off?

Wow, I leave the board for twenty four hours and I can't believe all the good discussion I missed!

Claire waited until now to boot him because she is also ambivalent. Despite the way Charlie was behaving she knew he was dependable, which is something Thomas wasn't. Thomas left her and Charlie was sticking by her and she was very reluctant to turn someone away who was showing loyalty, even a slightly dysfunctional kind. I'm not sure if its the heroin or the lie that bothered her more, but I'm guessing the lie.

When Charlie first told her about his addiction last season, she didn't judge, but she then went on to open up to him about her visit to the psychic. They were sharing intimate secrets and learning to trust each other. Even after learning of his secret, she agreed to go back to the caves with him. The drugs didn't bother her as long as he was honest. She was far more upset about learning Charlie had lied to her about Ethan returning and wanting her back. Trust is everything to Claire.

So take this situation. When she first found the statue in his bag and asks Charlie about it, he lies. When she discovers whats inside it, he lies again. Then he tries to tell her he's not using but since he's already lied twice, can she believe that? We all thought he had only one statue and so does Claire. Turns out he has a whole Mary village and therefore he is still lying to Claire (and to himself when he says he doesn't need it).

I think Claire would have reacted much differently if when he first found the drugs on the island he came to her and said, remember when I told you I had this drug problem? Well I just found alot of drugs on the island and I need help now because I won't be able to resist them. She wouldn't have turned her back on him in that circumstance. But we know that wouldn't have been realistic behavior for an addict so this is how it has to be.

By the way, does anyone else think:

1. That Charlie will ask Eko to hear his confession?

2. That when Hurley and Charlie talk this week about their women problems, Charlie doesn't say anything to Hurley about the drugs and his lies but rather tries to make it look as though Claire was being unreasonable and unfair? I'm thinking that conversation will be a setup for Hurley to then feel betrayed when Charlie is outed on the beach in the next episode. Charlie won't have a friend left in the world.

Cluck

01-14-2006, 05:49 PM

Because Hurley is a better person than we are.

mmmm well maybe.... But when someone who is suppose to be your friend treats you like dirt, thinks your lying, and make you feel guilty for your actions and you still continue the relationship.... most therapists would diagnose you as a co-dependent with a low self esteem.

I know what you are getting at though. Forgiveness is an admirable quality.

pacejunkie

01-14-2006, 06:06 PM

I don't think Hurley has a lot of choice about who his friends are on the island. Charlie may not always be the best friend but they are single, close in age and often have fun when they are together. Hurley is just putting up with Charlie's occasional off hand remarks. And you have to admit the lottery story is pretty hard to believe. I don't think Jack bought it either but no one is getting on HIS case.

lostgurl

01-14-2006, 07:32 PM

mmmm well maybe.... But when someone who is suppose to be your friend treats you like dirt, thinks your lying, and make you feel guilty for your actions and you still continue the relationship.... most therapists would diagnose you as a co-dependent with a low self esteem.

I know what you are getting at though. Forgiveness is an admirable quality.

I really dont see how Charlie treats Hurley so bad. The only thing that was a little harsh was when he made the comment about Hurley having money. I don't think thats a huge deal. I'm not so sure I'd believe someone telling me they won millions of dollars in the lotto either. I do remember scenes where Charlie and Hurley are playing golf and dancing around being goofy, and when they were on the beach with the golf club and Jack and Kate came along. They seem to be doing very well together.

Overshot

01-14-2006, 08:22 PM

i'm pretty sure at some point, someone else will get bored on the island and decide to try heroin with Charlie. Then he'll have some friends again. Who knows, maybe the Others are really just junkies walking around bootin' black tar heroin they find here and there.

beagle1962

01-14-2006, 08:52 PM

....but claire should die cuz she gives nothing to the series, and the fact she was cold to charlie just makes her uselessness all the worse.

theres not ONE good thing about her, other than shes hot. seriously.
(quote edited for space)
i''m not here to debate the charlie was wrong (he was), claire was right (she was) issue. it's been done quite thoroughly in this thread. i do feel the need to say something about claire, the character. while she may not have contributed much to the group, she is very important to the show in that, she was told by the psychic, "danger surrounds this baby...your goodness, must be an influence in the development of this child". if absolutely nothing else, she needs to remain on the show for that reason: to serve the plot.

Princeex86

01-15-2006, 12:47 AM

(quote edited for space)
i''m not here to debate the charlie was wrong (he was), claire was right (she was) issue. it's been done quite thoroughly in this thread. i do feel the need to say something about claire, the character. while she may not have contributed much to the group, she is very important to the show in that, she was told by the psychic, "danger surrounds this baby...your goodness, must be an influence in the development of this child". if absolutely nothing else, she needs to remain on the show for that reason: to serve the plot.

unless they have a huge time jump, or the show goes on for 10 years, were not going to see how the child developes anyway. and other than aron, shes totally useless.

and when you think about it, she doesnt even know how to raise the baby. so shes doubly useless. i mean, everyones hating charlie cuz hes hurting himself, no ones thinking OMG heres an irresponsible mother here who not only cant handle her own life, but might end up damaging this baby cuz shes stupid!

cuz she is. I mean, all claire has been for the series is a way to make bad stuff happen. cuz shes useless and cant do anything herself. like with the kidnapping the birth, the baby kidnapping, name one significant thing that happened to her (other than giving birth) that wasnt a dissaster?

alot of what charlie does, many not be entirely john wayneish, and he may not be actoin hero boy, but alot of what he does, that screw up hurts only himself, alot of claires screw ups have put ALOT of other people in danger. for starters.

seconds......no one seems to comment on the fact that like i say, she AINT a good mother at all. and she really doesnt have a point in the series. maybe the KID has a point, but she doesnt.

personally, she should give the kid to jin and sun and then jump in the ocean. but thats my opinion.

charlie is far from perfect, and he has alot of internal issues to work on. But I see interest and hope in his character.

i see no interest in claire. her first backstory said it all, shes an idiot so she had a child. she worked 5 bucks an hour, had an artist as a boyfriend, who had no other job (nothing against artists, i am half artist half author, and i have many frends who are, but when your living with someone, who is NOT sucessful and artist is their only job...theres something wrong) and like i say....she prolly wouldnt have a kid if she knew how to use a condom or a pill right. one thing that thomas said that i take into efect there is (you were SUPPOSE to be on the pill) makes me think she wasnt. tho i think hes a total *** too for what he did, but hell it just shows how much dumber she is for trusting him.
then she goes to a pshycic for life advice, personally when you go to anyone for life advice it shows that you cant handle life on your own, but when you go to a pshycic you need help. especially when he harrases you and you humor him and then listen to him. and then get on a plane he tells you too....ya see....im failing to seee ANYTHING intelligent or worthy that shes done in anything we've seen of her.

but if you think about it, which makes it a little worse, is charlies backstory and claires are sort of similar. they wre both betrayed by people they cared about. because of it they both recieved burdons, claire the baby, and charlie the heroine. wouldnt it make more sense to depend on eachother than be pushing the other away? yeah....but you know, cant make anything that simple ever.

thats all for now.

beagle1962

01-15-2006, 12:53 AM

just one question--ok 2:
1. you are an author, what do you write?
2. do you need a proofreader? i'm available....

sorry, 3:
3. you know the old saying about opinions, right? ;)

kitten_kath

01-15-2006, 01:11 AM

and when you think about it, she doesnt even know how to raise the baby. so shes doubly useless. i mean, everyones hating charlie cuz hes hurting himself, no ones thinking OMG heres an irresponsible mother here who not only cant handle her own life, but might end up damaging this baby cuz shes stupid!

seconds......no one seems to comment on the fact that like i say, she AINT a good mother at all. and she really doesnt have a point in the series. maybe the KID has a point, but she doesnt.

personally, she should give the kid to jin and sun and then jump in the ocean. but thats my opinion.

...she prolly wouldnt have a kid if she knew how to use a condom or a pill right. one thing that thomas said that i take into efect there is (you were SUPPOSE to be on the pill) makes me think she wasnt. tho i think hes a total *** too for what he did, but hell it just shows how much dumber she is for trusting him.

thats all for now.

Mostly I've left this thread alone, but... what???

Yes, she is struggling. She wasn't prepared for this, she wasn't intending to have to raise this child. To say that she is useless because she doesn't know what she is doing??? You can read every baby book on Earth and speak to all the "experts" you want and still know NOTHING about what you are doing when you give birth. It is entirely different when you actually have that little person with you... all the classes in the world cannot and will not prepare you for that. What you are seeing there is entirely realistic of that. You would be hard pressed to find a Mother anywhere in the world who has not felt that at some point. Add to that, the fact that she wasn't expecting to be doing this in the first place, no modern convieniences, the trauma of the plane crash and the massive life changes that they have had to go through so far... well, she is coping so well, it shocks me.

She probably wouldn't have had a child is she was on birth control??? If you knew anything about it, you would realise that no method is 100% effective and as proof of that I offer the existance of the small child currently running around my house, lol :biggrin: . You are basically implying that she is stupid for getting pregnant and it is all her fault... I find that rather insulting.

The main point of this thread was pretty much some people thinking that Claire was wrong for getting rid of Charlie because of the drugs. So you decide to insult that character and call her a bad Mother. The fact that she is thinking of Aaron (a newborn who is unable to care for himself), over Charlie (An Adult who needs to take responsibility for his own situation) shows that she is being a good Mother. A good Mother will not choose a drug addict still carrying the drug over ger own child.

Kitten.

Princeex86

01-15-2006, 01:19 AM

Mostly I've left this thread alone, but... what???

Yes, she is struggling. She wasn't prepared for this, she wasn't intending to have to raise this child. To say that she is useless because she doesn't know what she is doing??? You can read every baby book on Earth and speak to all the "experts" you want and still know NOTHING about what you are doing when you give birth. It is entirely different when you actually have that little person with you... all the classes in the world cannot and will not prepare you for that. What you are seeing there is entirely realistic of that. You would be hard pressed to find a Mother anywhere in the world who has not felt that at some point. Add to that, the fact that she wasn't expecting to be doing this in the first place, no modern convieniences, the trauma of the plane crash and the massive life changes that they have had to go through so far... well, she is coping so well, it shocks me.

She probably wouldn't have had a child is she was on birth control??? If you knew anything about it, you would realise that no method is 100% effective and as proof of that I offer the existance of the small child currently running around my house, lol :biggrin: . You are basically implying that she is stupid for getting pregnant and it is all her fault... I find that rather insulting.

The main point of this thread was pretty much some people thinking that Claire was wrong for getting rid of Charlie because of the drugs. So you decide to insult that character and call her a bad Mother. The fact that she is thinking of Aaron (a newborn who is unable to care for himself), over Charlie (An Adult who needs to take responsibility for his own situation) shows that she is being a good Mother. A good Mother will not choose a drug addict still carrying the drug over ger own child.

Kitten.

of course, one thing i love about people is that if you insult one mother, every mother in the world thinks your insulting them.

frankly its dumb to get insulted over what I say about a fictional character. secondly i do know about kids, as ive stated i am a father of a 2 year old son.

but being with my wife through all the hormonal stages and whatever, its always been my opinion and hers that hormonal attacks are no excuse for acting stupid. cuz when your dealing with a child, any imparity on judgment is something that cant be excused no amtter the source.

i mean, if people are going to gointo the excuse "shes hormonal from giving birth!" well, is that the excuse people use when mothers kill their children because of post pardon depression/phsycosis? cuz frankly i dont find the hormonal imbalance a good excuse for murder.

and understand i bear no insult to mothers on this thread, and i think its taking all this a little to seriously if people are actually getting insulted cuz im saying claire is a bad mother.

you can all make excuses for her, but no one can really prove shes of any use at all. if you can please state it. if not, stop throwing every excuse n the book out there for her. cuz excuses dont mean crap. people wont take excuses for charlie, so dont make them for claire.

Laurieg

01-15-2006, 05:18 AM

I think Clair is doing the best she can with what she has to work with.......Oh that would be nothing, except a wooden cradle that Arron is quickly out growing.

Her reaction to Arron being kidnapped with right on target. NOT everone acts fast. Some people need the time to fall apart, put themselves back together and then act.

They can't all be fighters and trackers. So the fighters and trackers ran off to get Arron back.

but being with my wife through all the hormonal stages and whatever, its always been my opinion and hers that hormonal attacks are no excuse for acting stupid. cuz when your dealing with a child, any imparity on judgment is something that cant be excused no amtter the source.

i mean, if people are going to gointo the excuse "shes hormonal from giving birth!" well, is that the excuse people use when mothers kill their children because of post pardon depression/phsycosis? cuz frankly i dont find the hormonal imbalance a good excuse for murder.
Mr. Cruise ,when did you join the site?.....belch

LostPack

01-15-2006, 06:34 AM

The original post asked if anyone else thought Claire should die. The overwhelming response was "No". The reasons given for sentencing her to death were totally non-compelling. We generally don't vote for death of people because of some perceived ungratefullness to another person who wasn't coerced into doing the nice things they did. We generally don't vote for death because a person is overwhelmed with having a child after surviving a plane crash and being stranded on a strange island after being kidnapped which was after being told by a psychic that she had to keep the baby which she doesn't have previous experience doing and due to her circumstances is learning on the fly. Most people don't legitimize a persons life based on the overall contributions they give to a group - those that give more don't get a bonus allowing them to live over someone who gives less or knows less.
It just seems very harsh to call for the death of character because she excercized her right to not have someone with her that she doesn't currently feel comfortable having there.

McGuane

01-15-2006, 09:16 AM

At the risk of fueling a poster, excuse me an author, who is obviously just trying to be provocative, I have to jump in here.

Don't even want to go off much on the "stupid for getting pregnant" stuff. You can point to any of the characters and say they were dumb for getting into the particular situations that led them to the island. She was very young, apparently had no family support, and trusted a man who wanted her in the good times and booked the moment the going got real. If this is a convictable offense, then clear the jails because the woods are full of young girls exactly like this.

Useless? Contributed nothing? The moment the Claire character captured my heart was the moment she showed she was anything but what you described. It was the scene where she asked Jack to do a memorial for the fuselage victims and he declined. She said, "Maybe I'll do it then". And so she did.

Here is the character with the most obvious reason to be self-absorbed and self-pitying, but here she is sitting in the blazing sun sorting through piles of belongings looking for any sort of humanity to attach to the victims. Obviously, the others see her as the leader of the effort; remember even Sawyer turning over belongings to her? Then she performs what had to be the heartwrenching task of presenting whatever she could gather about the scores of victims as they were cremated. Useless? I hardly think so.

She was also pretty useful to herself when she escaped her kidnappers and found her way back to camp through the dense jungle while nine months pregnant, Again displaying her charitable nature, she didn't even go postal on her "friends" for never bothering to look for her. (I've always hoped she never found out Locke and Boone were looking for the dog, not her, when SHE found THEM)

Of course, she has been physically limited both before and after the birth. Was not going to be much help hunting, etc. But even in full, and what had to be very uncomfortable, pregnancy, you never saw her complaining, demanding extra attention, etc. In fact, except for feeling a bit lonely and isolated, she was so darn cheerful that some posters wondered if she fully grasped her situation. Immediately, and I mean within HOURS, of giving birth (again with minimal complaint) on the jungle floor, she's up and about and pretty much back in the regular routine. We see her attending funerals, doing laundry, arranging quarters for herself and her child.

Of course there is a learning curve to taking care of a newborn, espec in circumstances like Claire is in. If you've ever had one, you know how completely frustrating caring for a small baby can be, even in the comforts of home with full equipment. So sue her if the frustration and physical exhaustion gets to her sometimes. But in general, like most of the others, we see her taking care of herself, contributing where she can, and not being a burden to anyone.

IMO, if this character seems useless, its because she has been woefully ignored this season. Hopefully, this situation is about to rectified (see spoiler section).

And lol to the poster who offered proofreading service to His Authorness. Looks like you may need help and I volunteer to work the overflow.

Cybele

01-15-2006, 10:30 AM

One thing that seems to be forgotten. At the very least, I haven't seen it posted here and I read all of the posts so far.

Remember back when Locke first helped Charlie with his addiction? He said it had make a choice and the island would take care of him (obvious paraphrase!). If he waited until his stash was gone to quit, it wasn't the same as giving it up voluntarily. As a result of doing that, he found his guitar. I think that Charlie is keeping the heroin around so that he is making a conscious choice. He COULD do the heroin if he wanted to, but he isn't. The heroin is sealed in the statues, but he is very careful with the statues so that they don't break.

Regarding Claire... I think she was already tired of him and this was a good excuse to get some space from Charlie. I got that feeling from the "I don't remember marrying him" conversation. There is a deep bond between them, however, so I don't see the separation lasting.

Jenn

01-15-2006, 12:07 PM

of course, one thing i love about people is that if you insult one mother, every mother in the world thinks your insulting them.

frankly its dumb to get insulted over what I say about a fictional character. secondly i do know about kids, as ive stated i am a father of a 2 year old son.

but being with my wife through all the hormonal stages and whatever, its always been my opinion and hers that hormonal attacks are no excuse for acting stupid. cuz when your dealing with a child, any imparity on judgment is something that cant be excused no amtter the source.

i mean, if people are going to gointo the excuse "shes hormonal from giving birth!" well, is that the excuse people use when mothers kill their children because of post pardon depression/phsycosis? cuz frankly i dont find the hormonal imbalance a good excuse for murder.

and understand i bear no insult to mothers on this thread, and i think its taking all this a little to seriously if people are actually getting insulted cuz im saying claire is a bad mother.

you can all make excuses for her, but no one can really prove shes of any use at all. if you can please state it. if not, stop throwing every excuse n the book out there for her. cuz excuses dont mean crap. people wont take excuses for charlie, so dont make them for claire.

I would like to say I dont in any way think that Claire is suffering from post-partum depression or 'hormonal issues'. I think it's your standard new baby stress topped with being stranded on an island with limited medical resources.

I really cant see how anyone could think shes a bad mom because we havent seen much of her with the baby besides her just carrying it around. It seems like a random conclusion to come to based on barely any facts. She kind of stressed early on with the baby but shes a new mother. I dont care how many books you read, classes you take, advice you get from mom and dad it's still both a miraculous and scary thing. You also have to remember that these are not normal conditions for a new mother...no 24 hour emergency line, no store to run and get diapers, no daycare...

Given Claire's rocky ride on the island combined with the fact that she is now raising a baby she almost chose not to raise, I dont see any issues with her and the baby.

Unless your whole issue is the fact that she once wanted to put it up for adoption?

TheMe

01-15-2006, 01:23 PM

ennui108

01-15-2006, 02:51 PM

of course, one thing i love about people is that if you insult one mother, every mother in the world thinks your insulting them.

frankly its dumb to get insulted over what I say about a fictional character. secondly i do know about kids, as ive stated i am a father of a 2 year old son.

but being with my wife through all the hormonal stages and whatever, its always been my opinion and hers that hormonal attacks are no excuse for acting stupid. cuz when your dealing with a child, any imparity on judgment is something that cant be excused no amtter the source.

i mean, if people are going to gointo the excuse "shes hormonal from giving birth!" well, is that the excuse people use when mothers kill their children because of post pardon depression/phsycosis? cuz frankly i dont find the hormonal imbalance a good excuse for murder.

and understand i bear no insult to mothers on this thread, and i think its taking all this a little to seriously if people are actually getting insulted cuz im saying claire is a bad mother.

you can all make excuses for her, but no one can really prove shes of any use at all. if you can please state it. if not, stop throwing every excuse n the book out there for her. cuz excuses dont mean crap. people wont take excuses for charlie, so dont make them for claire.

All right, I'm delivering a low blow here- You say that you are the father of a two year old child. That would imply to me that you are an adult. I find this especially interesting because up until this point, I was certain I was reading the writings of a twelve year old girl. I mean, I'm not a great speller myself, but geez! Holy run on sentences, Batman!

pacejunkie

01-15-2006, 03:17 PM

Princeex86

01-15-2006, 07:03 PM

All right, I'm delivering a low blow here- You say that you are the father of a two year old child. That would imply to me that you are an adult. I find this especially interesting because up until this point, I was certain I was reading the writings of a twelve year old girl. I mean, I'm not a great speller myself, but geez! Holy run on sentences, Batman!

lmao nice batman quote.

yeah, the funny thing is i actually make my living as a writer. haha, but you think ur insults to my spelling are bad, your nothing compared to my 3 editors. theres nothing bout my spelling you can say that I havent heard.

lol one thing i would like to adress to the thread:

i didnt actually mean claire should die because of what she did to charlie. that was me being harsh in words, wut i relal mean is: she was a vincent to do so. at least in the way she did it. i think that much as been established at least, that she was way too cold to him.

John_Locke

01-15-2006, 07:34 PM

come on, seriously, after all charlie did for claire since being on the island, the fact he had drugs is going to totally turn her away from him? whats he going to do, give heroine to the baby?

i mean list of things charlie has done for claire:

getting her water
helping her with her tent
carrying her bags
almost getting killed trying to protect her
got hit in the head with bag of rocks and gunpoweder burned inhis forehead to get her baby back
takes better care of her baby than she does

and alot of other small stuff im forgetting and she dumps him like that? i mean shes a real idiot.

oh, you know dont even think about the fact he may be dangerour when he aKILLED someone.....no...its the DRUGS that are totally the wrong thing....jez what a ditz

but then again, she is the moron who got with a guy who would obviously leave her, didnt use protection had a kid she was gonna give up and got on a plane because a weirdo told her to. seriously, SHE SHOULD DIE NEXT, just kill her already. all she is is eye candy, her character is terrible DIE DIE DIE DIE. lol

but on a serious note. she sucks. i mean, charlie is teh shiznet.
Charlie wasn't honest with Claire, He read her diary, lying about statue, and he's a recovering Junkie, now in possesion of heroin. Claire did the right thing. Her obligations are to her baby, not Charlie. He started to act all possessive around her with Aaron, I guess that was Charlie telling himself drugs didnt matter, hoping Claire and baby would make him a better person. The truth as i see it, Charlie cant be trusted.... not until he is clean, and the drugs wont have any hold over him. Claire's descision was the right one. A former rockstar-turned-junkie around a small baby...not something you want as a parent. So her cutting the ties with Charlie justifies she should die ???
Explain the logic, cause i dont see how or why that can be justified, it all sounds like a statement from someone not completely in touch with the full set of moral values. So if a person suck, kill him/her ?

nonyabizwaz

01-16-2006, 07:14 AM

By the way, does anyone else think:

1. That Charlie will ask Eko to hear his confession?

2. That when Hurley and Charlie talk this week about their women problems, Charlie doesn't say anything to Hurley about the drugs and his lies but rather tries to make it look as though Claire was being unreasonable and unfair? I'm thinking that conversation will be a setup for Hurley to then feel betrayed when Charlie is outed on the beach in the next episode. Charlie won't have a friend left in the world.

Totally thought #1. And you're probably mostly right on #2. But that may be what it takes for him. Eventually.

(quote edited for space)
while she may not have contributed much to the group, she is very important to the show in that, she was told by the psychic, "danger surrounds this baby...your goodness, must be an influence in the development of this child". if absolutely nothing else, she needs to remain on the show for that reason: to serve the plot.

Which, to me, is exactly why she's gotta go. What's the point of making such a big deal about Aaron needing her influence...her goodness...if we don't get to find out how it would play out if she's not in his life? That doesn't necessarily mean she has to die. But she should definitely go missing for an extended period of time so we can find out what exactly would happen!

All right, I'm delivering a low blow here- You say that you are the father of a two year old child. That would imply to me that you are an adult. I find this especially interesting because up until this point, I was certain I was reading the writings of a twelve year old girl. I mean, I'm not a great speller myself, but geez! Holy run on sentences, Batman!

Ahem. So are you saying that a 12 year old BOY wouldn't make the spelling errors? Only a GIRL?! Isn't that a bit sexist? ;)

pacejunkie

01-16-2006, 08:40 AM

While I don't think Claire deserves to die (that's just plain silly, as Rose would say), I do think the storyline may dictate that she go missing for an extended period again or be killed off entirely eventually. They're not going to be searching down babies to play Aaron for the next five or more years. That's going to get cumbersome. And if I were Emilie, I'd get sick of playing a role where I do nothing but carry around a baby all the time. Plus, Emilie is doing movies and doesn't she still commute from L.A.? It would make sense to me if the actor wanted to leave by next season. It would also be great story fodder for Charlie to have to go on without her. Maybe the Others would take the baby (that's an easy out for the writers and casting people) and Claire dies going after him herself.

I just don't think they are doing much with her character and when Shannon's story hit a dead end, she got killed off.

irish lost fan

01-16-2006, 08:48 AM

i disagree with some of your statement (pacejunkie). Im sure there's much more storylines for Claire this season. They just haven't had much time to concentrate on her this season because of the tail section and the hatch and Shannon dying. There is a lot more of Claire to come im sure of it. (this is more my personal theory than facts i don't want Claire to die or disappear)

elfdream

01-16-2006, 09:48 AM

IMO, Claire's been a bit standoffish and resistant to Charlie from the get-go. Is there a nagging voice in the back of her mind saying "you alone have to raise the child"? Maybe she was just waiting for the chance...

That being said, I think she was a little extreme and a little harsh, and will probably mellow and be his friend again in future episodes.

The psychic didn't say 'you alone'. He said 'you yourself'. I know..picky picky. :) That could be interpreted any number of ways.

Claire pushed Charlie away in the very begning because she was just getting over Thomas..but remember on the trail when Charlie said "I told you I could take care of you' how she smiled and let him feel the baby kick? She was starting to warm up to him then.

She was wiling to learn to 'trust him ' all over again after he killed Ethan..and even SOUGHT HIM OUT for a walk during "Outlaws'.

She cut his hair, the walked on the beach..she let Charlie watch Aaron while she took some much needed alone time.

The way she kissed him after he made the baby carrier, how she hugged him when he and Sayid brough Aaron back..the way she smiled when Charlie gave her the peanut butter..

Its funny how people forget all this when they say things like she was never into Charlie from the begning. Yes she had her reservations but she was not 'pushing Charlie away'. I think she was starting to warm up..until....

I think perhaps Charlie started to change when he found the statue. It was a struggle for him and Claire was unconsciencely picking up on it. She didn't know what was wrong but that Charlie was getting bossy and taking over. I think she was probably thinking they need space but in one sense she needed him. Who else would spend time with her and help her out. The statue gave her the excuse to send him packing..

And I have to remind the Charlie lovers again and again that Claire's actions will in the end be a GOOD THING for Charlie. It might hurt now but in the end it will be better for everyone...all the way around.

pacejunkie

01-16-2006, 11:33 AM

It turns out I may have unknowingly been on to something about Claire. One of the writers has stated that You will be learning more about Claire, her baby, AND Danielle in the coming weeks. And although I can't guarantee that nothing bad will happen to any of them - - without real jeopardy, there are no stakes in this story - - and the chance that people we care about will come to harm, well... isn't that why we all keep watching in the first place? I wrote the next Claire episode (along with Dawn Kelly) and I know I can speak for both of us when I say that we hope you enjoy it. Source: Matt Raggs

I'm so excited for this episode!

irish lost fan

01-16-2006, 11:37 AM

I hope nothing bad happens to claire. It would be such a shame to kill her off or get rid of her. Aaron could be kidnapped or somethin then that would open much more of Claire although that could be borderline copying the Michael Walt story.

pacejunkie

01-16-2006, 11:51 AM

It would be like Walt and Alex's stories but then the Others do want children and Aaron appears to be special like Walt, so it would make sense. Maybe Charlie bounces back from his drug stupor by then and really rescues Aaron by himself this time (without Sayid's help) and Claire takes him back.

irish lost fan

01-16-2006, 11:59 AM

Thats possible too. Claire would be so happy but then that would be like exodus and i don't think that would be good for a Claire storyline. We need something new and exciting like Charlie and Jin coming to Claire's rescue but not being able to save aaron. I agree what you earlier said bout them casting loads of babies to play aaron. They might just get rid of him. It could make Claire go mad and she could start shoutin stuff like. I need to raise this baby because if i don't the baby will etc etc etc.
and the other survivors will probably think she's lost it too but then Charlie will be there to believe her, cause he has heard the psychic story.

Laurieg

01-16-2006, 12:21 PM

Well here is a sick plot twist. Which I hope doesn't come true.
Claire gets killed off and Ana takes over the raising of Arron as a replacement to the baby she lost.

pacejunkie

01-16-2006, 03:27 PM

Well here is a sick plot twist. Which I hope doesn't come true.
Claire gets killed off and Ana takes over the raising of Arron as a replacement to the baby she lost.

Now there's a storyline I'd like to see :smile: . I think Danielle deserves a baby too though, even though she crazy.

elfdream

01-16-2006, 03:48 PM

Ok..now you all have gotten me to start having some weird theories about the upcoming Charlie episode.

You don't think Charlie is rescuing Aaron from Ana do you? Eek!

pacejunkie

01-16-2006, 03:49 PM

Seriously though, I would bet Ana is still pretty scared of babies and she would want to stay as far away from Aaron as possible. Libby on the other hand, that could get interesting...

myothercarisflight815

01-16-2006, 04:49 PM

Ok being a mom... I hope Claire's Mother Bear skills kick some "other" hiney. In terms of the story though if something were to happen to her... the psychic said that Aaron must not be raised by another. So I would rather see Aaron raised by one of the boars than by an other. ahem.

irish lost fan

01-16-2006, 04:55 PM

I can't believe people seriously think Claire will die. She's not going to ( i hope ) it would be stupid to kill off the mother of her baby. Then her first flashback episode would have made no sense. Richard Malcolm wanted Claire to raise the baby, he wouldn't have sent her to the island to her death, he knows she will be kind of safe there to raise the baby therefore she won't die ( i hope )

Baileysdad

01-16-2006, 10:10 PM

Pondering moving thread to "I'm just not that into you" section as this is straying from the 23rd Psalm epi section...

Myha

01-17-2006, 07:03 AM

elfdream

01-17-2006, 07:04 AM

We still haven't figured that one out. Either one would fit in this situation.

turnip_head

01-18-2006, 09:07 AM

Ok just my opinions. In the real world when a woman finds out that her boyfriend has lied to her, the smart ones do the exact same thing as Claire. The thing is though, Claire and Charlie aren't really serious or anything. People on here are basically saying Claire should have nicely told Charlie to leave. That is just stupid, and unrealistic. If things go like they do in the real world, Claire might possibly forgive Charlie. But even if she doesn't, why should she? Should Claire just be like "oh charlie has done so much for me, who cares if he lied to me about his drugs." I can understand how people might have been upset with Claire a little when she first kicked him out, but as soon as you saw Charlie's stash of the statues, you should have been happy with what Claire did. Charlie has a stash of heroin, he still blames other people for what he does and still lies about it, and still people are upset with Claire. I just don't get it.

elfdream

01-18-2006, 09:29 AM

Perhaps if we had seen a scene of a Claire confiding to someone and being in a bit of conflict about it "What shall I do about Charlie..he told me he was a drug addict and I found this heroin. He's been good to me and the baby but lately he's become so bossy...this whole situation scares me...I have to think abotu Aaron before anything else"...et etc etc and then concludes that she needs to give him the heave ho..it might have been better received.

However one of Claire's traits, for good or bad, is that she 'reacts' quickly to events. She gets mad and throws a temper or stomp off into the woods or whatever at the first sign of conflict. I think that's actually what is setting people off. Her 'reactionary' way of handling things..not the fact that she actually told Charlie to go away.

turnip_head

01-18-2006, 09:49 AM

Speaker

01-18-2006, 09:50 AM

i have to agree with the thread title because i think claire would be much hotter as a bruenette or even with black hair.

she should definitely dye.

LadybirdKate

01-18-2006, 09:55 AM

:biggrin: Perhaps if we had seen a scene of a Claire confiding to someone and being in a bit of conflict about it "What shall I do about Charlie..he told me he was a drug addict and I found this heroin. He's been good to me and the baby but lately he's become so bossy...this whole situation scares me...I have to think abotu Aaron before anything else"...et etc etc and then concludes that she needs to give him the heave ho..it might have been better received.

However one of Claire's traits, for good or bad, is that she 'reacts' quickly to events. She gets mad and throws a temper or stomp off into the woods or whatever at the first sign of conflict. I think that's actually what is setting people off. Her 'reactionary' way of handling things..not the fact that she actually told Charlie to go away.

I totally agree with this one...they need to show her conflict more or some more depth. Unfortunately, I have a theory that they are going to kill off Charlie --or have him overdose or something in order to develop HER character. It will give her a guilt trip, and probably lots of " I should have been nicer boo hoo" scenes...and don't forget the psychic DID tell her that she MUST raise our favorite turnip head alone. I hate to think this because I'm starting to like Charlie more. He annoyed me last season. He was a wicked cute hobbit though! :biggrin:

irish lost fan

01-18-2006, 10:30 AM

turnip_head

01-18-2006, 10:50 AM

You never know guys Claire might confide in someone in the next episode to see if she was right in what she was doing. The last episode was kind of a shock to see Claire throw Charlie out. The shock effect would not have been there if she went off to confide in Locke or something.

I think that will happen. I hope it does. I doubt Claire will stay mad at Charlie, but I am glad she showed him that she isn't going to put up with his crap. But then again, it looks like Charlie isn't done with that crap, so hopefully if Claire does decide to forgive him, she won't end up believe more lies.

elfdream

01-18-2006, 11:00 AM

Claire had plenty of time to think about it while Charlie and Eko were off in the woods. How many times has she gotten mad and stomped into the woods? I know there was that one time when she was attacked and then nobody believed her about it. If you think she should have given that more thought, well, thats dumb. How many people would be attacked and sit around and think about what to do? very few, unless they are idiots. Claire has trust issues already, and then she finds out Charlie has been lying to her. Come one, I just don't see why anyone thinks she was wrong for what she did. I am proud of her. She is a grown woman and can do whatever she wants to do. The fact that charlie lied to her shows that he must not have feelings for her like we thought, or he woudln't have lied. He is a liar with a drug problem, and Claire has a kid. Maybe claire did think about it for a little bit, but as soon as she looked at Aaron that should answer her question for what she should do. Her kid is important to her, and she will do whatever it takes to keep drugs away from him.

Read this carefully. No one is saying she is wrong for kicking Charlie out. Everyone agrees its the right thing. She has a kid and in the end it will be better for Charlie if he is shown some tough love.

And I'm also not saying that the way Claire reacts to things is a BAD trait. I'm just saying it appears that's the way the character is written. Its neither bad nor good. Sometimes its a good thing because quick thinking can save the day and sometimes its not.

And she should have thought before she stomped off into the woods ALONE. She thinks someone is attacking her and she goes off ALONE. I'm sorry but I have would have tried to have gathered some kind of group around me first. She didn't think it through..just like she didn't think it through when she woke Aaron up and went toward the screaming.

The psychic did not use the word 'alone'. He said 'you yourself must raise this child'. I know..picky and pendantic and it could be interpreted to mean the same thing... :)

None of these characters are perfect and I LIKE Claire..but that is just something I have noticed about her.

turnip_head

01-18-2006, 11:26 AM

why would Claire gather a group of people that she is already trying ot get away from. she was mad at those people because they talked her into going to the caves, then she got attacked, and none of the cave people believed her. if she had someone she could trust, maybe she wouldn't have went alone.

oh, and yes some people are saying claire is wrong for kicking charlie out. some people are saying she should have thought about it (which i disagree with because there really isn't anything to think about) and some people say she should have just pretended like nothing happened because charlie had done so much for her. i disagree with both.

elfdream

01-18-2006, 11:54 AM

I would have at least waited for a group of peope heading back to the beach and joined them.. or asked if someone I trusted if they would walk back there with me. I just wouldn't have taken off alone but then I'm a complete weenie.

And if anyone thinks Claire was wrong for kicking Charlie out or ignoring the whole situation they are idiots.

turnip_head

01-18-2006, 12:00 PM

thats just the point, she didn't trust anyone. As far as she knew, someone in the caves attacked her. She had no clue who, so she couldn't trust anyone.

Boonesgurl

01-18-2006, 12:07 PM

isnt there a rumour that charlie shoots claire though or something? because that would suck.

irish lost fan

01-18-2006, 12:11 PM

What the f***? Where did you hear that?
That is so stupid if it is true.

Heartless_child

01-18-2006, 04:46 PM

Charlie wouldn't unless he was pushed to his limits and even then I would find it hard to believe. Charlie cares to much for Claire and Aaron and wouldn't risk his last chance for anything.

lmwwashington2

01-26-2006, 12:23 PM

Okay... I needed somewhere to vent after last nights eppy and this seemed like the appropriate thread.... After the way Claire and Locke treated Charlie last night I REALLY want something bad to happen to Aaron (sorry kid, your sacrificed in my fantasy) and Charlie is somewhere that everyone knows he had NOTHING to do with it... then I want Claire to feel SO bad about not listening to Charlie and realize that Aarons death is on her so that she offs herself. Then Locke... well, I just want him to fall off a cliff or drown or something right now, not really caring how he goes, maybe let Charlie throw a few punches at him first!

*DEEP BREATH*

Thank you... I feel much better getting that off my chest... hopefully these Characters redeem themselves in the future! I'd like to like them again... well, Claire is hopelessly annoying but I'm willing to change my mind if she gets on her knees and begs Charlies forgivness for her stupidity!!!!:drowsy:

JAZZYJ

01-26-2006, 01:48 PM

irish lost fan

01-26-2006, 02:11 PM

I don't like what Locke was doing to Charlie, but Claire was only thinking of her baby. She doesn't know what Charlie is going through because Locke is becoming over protective of her. Charlie told Claire to get Aaron baptised and she did, so she was listening to Charlie. I think Claire still really likes Charlie, she just needs to hear his explanations and stuff. But Charlie did go over the top a bit.

SwitchGotLost

01-26-2006, 05:03 PM

I used to think Claire was the most beautiful, sweetest thing on the island. Then the baby was born and she lost a lot of her charm in my eyes. Maybe it's hormones. Or the fact that her totally beautiful eyes just hide the fact that she can be an ice queen. Maybe saying she should die is going a bit far, but she's got a long way to go before I'll like her as much as I did in the first part of season one.

Cluck

01-27-2006, 03:04 PM

Claire sucks, Charlie is only trying to do the right thing. The island is making him a little confused but he has good intentions, Claire just needs to be a little more nice, and Charlie needs to not go down the crazy path he is on.

Trying to do the right thing??? Ha.. I am sorry but no matter how confused you are the "right thing" is totally not to start a massive fire that can burn down a whole camp, steal an infant and try to go dunk the infant in the ocean when you know you can't swim.. I see absolutely no good intentions - I see a completely screwed up person.

its.mrs.b

01-27-2006, 10:02 PM

Trying to do the right thing??? Ha.. I am sorry but no matter how confused you are the "right thing" is totally not to start a massive fire that can burn down a whole camp, steal an infant and try to go dunk the infant in the ocean when you know you can't swim.. I see absolutely no good intentions - I see a completely screwed up person.

I see a person whp had a close encounter with a monster while stuck up in a tree the previous island day. I think while we focused on Eko and the monster, Charlie, had some fallout and that is what is causing his vivid dreams and crazy behavior.

Wonder what happened to Locke? Both Locke and Jack seem to be showing an extreme lack of leadership skills lately. Sayid is in mourning. I sure hope Eko does something quickly or the losties won't need the others to do them in. Last week it was kate, this week it is Charlie. Who will bear the unreasonable wrath of another lostie next episode?

And Claire? I agree with those who have posted that she should have had some conflict or pain about throwing Charlie out. She did care about him, At least i thought she did, You don't break up with someone and not feel some loss or ambiguity or regret. I am glad she cared enough about Charlie to follow his advice and baptise Aaron. At least she is still showing some respect for Charlie's wishes.

Tom_Zarek

01-29-2006, 05:47 PM

Anyone else notice the dislike of Claire on this thread is lukewarm at its warmest point?

Cluck

01-30-2006, 03:50 PM

Anyone else notice the dislike of Claire on this thread is lukewarm at its warmest point?

Yes I have been wondering why it is in the "I'm just not that into you". It seems to me that most of the posts would fall into the "All is good" category.

elfdream

01-30-2006, 04:10 PM

Some people might be mad at her at the moment but most people don't want her to die.

LockeHurleySawyer

01-30-2006, 07:39 PM

I still like Claire. She is being very protective of her son. If the flight didn't crash she probably would not have him in her arms right now, Aaron would more than likely have been with his adoptive parents. Soon after his birth he was kidnapped by Danielle so her natural maternal instincts are being protective to her son. She has bonded with the child and I think more and more she is learning to trust herself as a mother.

evanesco75

01-31-2006, 03:08 AM

I agree that Claire's main concern was her baby; as it should be. What bugged me was her lack of attention to Aaron when the fire's on. Locke expressly tells her to stay there with the baby and what does she do? She turns her back on him to check out what's going down with the fire-where there are plenty of people to handle it!
It's actually easy for charlie to snatch aaron again, which wouldn't have happened at all if the woman had bothered to keep her eyes on the baby. I mean, the baby's been taken before, for f***s sake! Get a clue! What needs to happen for her to ensure she's got an eye on the kid at all times?
Maybe they should set up a baby guard or something LoL!

Cluck

01-31-2006, 08:53 AM

I<3Dom

02-03-2006, 05:26 AM

Some people might be mad at her at the moment but most people don't want her to die.

so true I was kinda upset but if you remeber at the end of the eppy(fire + water)
she got the baby
baptized(sp?) like charlie asked her to

evanesco75

02-03-2006, 07:00 AM

Oh I don't know, I think this is stretching it a bit... She was only 4 feet away and she did hear him and turn around before he got too far. At that moment the fire was the imminent danger and I would have been keeping an eye on the fire to judge if I have to grab the baby and run.

See, I don't agree with that. If I wanted to keep an eye on the fire to make sure I could get away if it lurked too close, I would've held the baby in my arms; I wouldn't have stood with my back to the baby. Why give Charlie the opportunity to even grab Aaron at all? I'm not saying she's a bad mum; not at all. But she tends to get a bit scatterbrained at times, especially during stress (e.g. stomping off on her own when she was preggers, trying to ignore/ supress her labor!) Again, that's an extremely realistic quality i.e. lots of people can't handle stress all that well, so kudos to the writers for portraying her that way.

But if we're commenting on her behavior vis a vis Charlie's, then I really feel that by the point the fire started, she should've had the sense to realize he probably had something to do with it (after all, the last time a fire erupted, it was for a specific purpose: destroying the raft). So far, fires haven't randomly started anywhere. I would've made sure I immediately gathered the kid and got to a safe place e.g. in the company of those who weren't trying to kill the fire (I'm positive there were a few bystanders who didn't venture too near it; it wasn't as though the entire camp was putting it out).

Just seemed a bit dim to me, is all. Which doesn't mean I dislike her. She' a real character, and people can identify with her.

Charlie_Junk_God

02-12-2006, 07:42 PM

Hmmmm i kinda agree with you, I suppose as I realy like Charlie as a Character I'm gonna want to side withhim, I feel Claire was a tad heartless in bootin him out ,but I totally understood her when she said she needed space, which is fair enough.
Charlie was just worried an freakin out and also bein a bit 2 needy, I think Charlie acted so irratioanlly because he's been more active in parentin Araon than Claire has and she has made up 4 it buy recroutin Locke as a Father figure.
This all probablty boils down 2 Daddy abondonment issues, I think shes been a bit aloof and very stubborn as a character and relucktent to trust people ,which has been made worse by her havin the baby kidnaped ect. I don't hate claire, but she is really startin to annoy me.
I just felt that she has pushe Charlie 2 far and cloer to takin the smack again...but after the Long con ..who know's...

Tom_Zarek

02-15-2006, 08:50 PM

I think Claire must pay for being so heartless to Charlie. I bet somehow Aaron might disappear.

Wilson

02-16-2006, 05:12 AM

its.mrs.b

02-17-2006, 04:34 PM

Who's going to take care of Aaron if she buys the farm?

She's probably used to guys doing little things like that for her; she's cute, after all, and she's probably had her fair share of guys with problems hanging around; I'm guessing Charlie wouldn't be the first drug addict in her life. I say she's justified to send him packing, at least for a little while.

Aaron's natural father is a real loser. He abandoned her and the unborn baby, but only after hanging around long enough to keep Claire from getting an abortion. I think Claire has parental issues - we don't know anything about her and her family, do we? But she is a classic codependant.

That's a good question.. what happens to Aaron if Claire dies. It's supposedly so important for her to raise Aaron. Why? Did the psychic know about Dharma or the others or the other others <g>? As a single parent, and especially as a single parent to this particular baby (for reasons we haven't been told) Claire needs to grow up fast. Part of parenting Aaron means providing for him incase something happens to her. I have been wondering why more attempts on her life have not been made already. If the others want Aaron, the eaiest way to get him is to kill her.

Claire needs to make some kind of provisions for who would take care of Aaron should she die. Is there a lawyer on the island? :biggrin: Of course, enforcing the guardianship rights of whomever she picks might not be easy, it is a start. Perhaps Echo could perform a marriage ceremony or a legal guardianship in case of death will type thing. (is any one able to follow me? lol. I am rather ditsy today and not expressing myself well.)

Charlie has definately been a better parent to Aaron than Claire has. If Claire should marry someone or set up legal godparents, who better than Charlie? Yes he is a recovering drug addict but who on the island has better credentials. The only 2 I could think of are Jack and Sun. I wouldn't trust any baby with Locke - I don't like the way he "parented" Boone at all. Who would give someone an hallucinagenic to keep him from butting out of his sister's life (ok, I over-simplified it, but...).

I don't think Jack would make a good father. His reaction to Sarah's mention of pregnancy was awful. He has too many unresolved Daddy issues. (so does every one on the island, though.). Sun might be a good choice, but I don't think Jin would want the job. Anyway, on an island of murderers and theives, she is just a little bit too "perfect". I think she has many more secrets than just the speaking English thing, She is her daddy's daughter, afterall,

So given the lack of good choices and given Charlie's desire for the job, and all the sacrifices he has made for the baby (like his brother, he gave up drugs to parent a baby and to help the mother). Charlie gave his life for the baby.. if Kate and Jack hadn't of found him at he last moment, he would have died hanging from that tree. He had Sayid pour gunpowder on his face and light it up so he could continue to get Aaron back from Danielle. He may not be a great choice, but he isn't a bad one. He has potential :rolleyes: . He is the best choice right now, and Claire needs to act right now. Anyone agree?