So, we are all talking about Jack's comments to Zeke being less than eloquent...I agree totally; but what about what Zeke said to Jack, Sawyer and Locke. What was the purpose? To tell them that they are in danger, duh, I think they already know. To let them know that they were being watched, I think they know that too. The lostaways are already afraid of going into the jungle, they rarely wander much further than the hatch....I just don't understand why Zeke didn't interact more with Jack, Sawyer and Locke if he didn't intend to kill them. Zeke didn't have to reveal whatever he was doing with Walt, but he could have told them, "We've been on this island for 8 years, there's no way off." or "If you find anymore hatches, don't eat the food, it's ours" or something instead of, "if you cross this line, I'll kill you" Baisically I'm wondering what was the point of the conversation? Was it just to entice Jack into crossing the line? Another psychological experiment?

That's a great point, I never thought of it that way....

I'm still a believer in the different "other group" theories out there right now. Could it be a ploy to get there guns or get there guns before another group does...? If they know about the hatch, why not raid it, grab all the food and good stuff and take off????

The theory of just introducing another factor into the experiment makes sense to me. Now danger has come to them (ala taking Walt and possibley Mike as well) Now it puts the Losties on the offensive and see how they react.......

So, we are all talking about Jack's comments to Zeke being less than eloquent...I agree totally; but what about what Zeke said to Jack, Sawyer and Locke. What was the purpose? To tell them that they are in danger, duh, I think they already know. To let them know that they were being watched, I think they know that too. The lostaways are already afraid of going into the jungle, they rarely wander much further than the hatch....I just don't understand why Zeke didn't interact more with Jack, Sawyer and Locke if he didn't intend to kill them. Zeke didn't have to reveal whatever he was doing with Walt, but he could have told them, "We've been on this island for 8 years, there's no way off." or "If you find anymore hatches, don't eat the food, it's ours" or something instead of, "if you cross this line, I'll kill you" Baisically I'm wondering what was the point of the conversation? Was it just to entice Jack into crossing the line? Another psychological experiment?

This bothered me as well - Zeke makes a long analogy about them being like strangers taking their shoes off and going into rooms they're not supposed to, but then never explains what he's referring to. He never tells them what they're doing he doesn't like.

I guess you can say he provoked Jack. I like the idea that it is another experiment. Notice he was really only talking to Jack, and if the Others know anything about Jack, they know he wont just let this go. I mean he wants to start an army.....Jack's Army!

My guess is "Zeke" can't let them get off the island now because they know too much. If they left and told what went on there whatever goverment whos territory that island is on would definately send in troops to investigate. Because he can't let them go I guess he's just establishing his dominance in no uncertain terms. "this is our island" Hence- You play by our rules and don't cross the line!

He made three things clear to me.
First he has Walt.
Second that side of the isalnd is theirs, stay off it.
Third you people are still alive because I let you live.

This bothered me as well - Zeke makes a long analogy about them being like strangers taking their shoes off and going into rooms they're not supposed to, but then never explains what he's referring to. He never tells them what they're doing he doesn't like.


Exactly, he doesn't mention the hatch or bunker.. He could be just referring to the island, not the hatch.

When Jack mentions Ethan, Zeke replies something to the effect of, "Nice theory." I don't think Ethan was a part of their others, not because he doesnt confirm he was or wasn't, but because he basically dismisses it.

I think he was deflecting attention away from the subject of Ethan. That's how it goes. When someone gets too close to the truth you either dismiss it or deflect it by changing the subject.

When I was watching it I thought immediately that they (the Others) were former Dharma/Hanso people. The way he talked about "opening doors", "eating our food", etc...the door was the hatch, the food was the food stored there.

I'm so glad this was brought up. I was so frustrated last night. I kept yelling at the t.v. for the Losties to ask questions. How come when anyone comes in contact with an "Other" do they never ask any questions, like, Who are you? How long have you been on this island? What are you doing here? Why do you take people? What are these bunkers? What's the deal with the polar bear? Do you know the French chick?

Instead, no one asks anything. URGHH!

Thanks for letting me vent! :smile:

Well, thinking of it from Jack's point of view. You already lost the battle, first rule is to survive to fight the war. They didnt probe or ask questions, so they got sent home packing with their tails between their legs. How far do you push a stranger who has the means to kill you when you no longer have a way to properly fight back.

Look at the terrain. They may have been outnumbered. The opposing side had at least 1 hostage at gunpoint, your side is in a heavily lit area, while theirs is in a poorly lit area. Did anybody else notice that good old Gordon's Fisherman from the 9th plane of hell was keeping VERY much in the shadows. If the first round of the firefight didnt kill him outright, then he had a amazing shot at getting into the darkness while his people picked off the Lostaways. Jack was smart to keep his mouth shut.

When he said (paraphrase) "Don't cross this line", I thought he was talking about entering that part of the island rather than a behavioral thing. Kind of like, you stay in your yard and behave and we will let you live. Anyone else get that? Or is it just me?

I'm so glad this was brought up. I was so frustrated last night. I kept yelling at the t.v. for the Losties to ask questions. How come when anyone comes in contact with an "Other" do they never ask any questions, like, Who are you? How long have you been on this island? What are you doing here? Why do you take people? What are these bunkers? What's the deal with the polar bear? Do you know the French chick?

Instead, no one asks anything. URGHH!

Thanks for letting me vent! :smile:

Completely agree with you...
It's akind of frustration, we want the losties to ask our questions to "the others" or whoever they are...
Jack can say : "hey wait a minute, we crashed on this island and we nned help, we can work together, but let me know first who you are and where you come from ? And yes, of course, have you ever seen this damn black smoke, or a black horse or maybe a polar bear, and yes if you see a grey-hear man wearing a nice tuxedo, he's my father..."
But it will not be our favorite tv show if it was like that right ???

Take care,

Wally

I think it was obvious that he was referring directly to Locke opening the hatch when he mentioned that they had opened doors they shouldn't have. Everybody looked at Locke and he seemed to shrug at that statement.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are cameras or some other observation method in the hatch because they knew Locke had an additional gun hidden on him.

I think it's as simple as you don't give the enemy too much information.

It's kind of like that joke in Austin Powers where Dr. Evil puts them in an insanely easy trap to escape and then tells them his diabolical scheme.

He may have known Locke had an extra gun on him because of the way Locke was walking or something other than having cameras in the hatch.

I think they did send Ethan into spy on the Losties, because when Jack said Ethan's name, Zeke almost let his cards show. There was a brief moment where he looked like he was going to flinch.

I think Zeke's "Nice Theory" comment about Ethan may have just been a nod to everyone on the boards.

Well, "Zeke" did quote Alvar Hanso after saying "a man much smarter than anyone here once said:" so it's probably safe to say he's a Dharma guy. Which is why he seems to know about the hatch. I'll be surprised if Jack didn't tear the hatch apart looking for surveillence cameras or microphones in the coming episodes.

Wowz, this episode really startled me. But then again at least it was realistic. And for me this all gives me a completely different view on Lost.

First of all I think that Zeke's group is in the same position as the losties. They just have to survive, but have been there for a long time. So they are not waiting for a bunch of newbies bringing danger to them. That's why they want to keep seperated from them.
Obviously the Zekes don't care about what the losties did to that hatch or they would have interfered. So they are not interested in it, because they have other ways to survive.
I think the referal to taking of your shoes etc. is just to make clear that losties should respect the Zekes cause they've been there much longer.

The experiment part, I'm not at all convinced the zekes are experimenting with the losties. The experiment that was on the island once has since long been terminated is my guess and the leftovers are the dangers that confront our losties and the zekes. I mean if the experiment was still going on, don't you think they would have renewed the computer? It's way to old to be reliable.

Feedback plz...

First of all I think that Zeke's group is in the same position as the losties. They just have to survive, but have been there for a long time. So they are not waiting for a bunch of newbies bringing danger to them. That's why they want to keep seperated from them.

If they want to keep seperated from the Fusies, maybe abducting one of their children while blowing up their attempt to leave the island isn't the best way to do that...

And the dude quoted Alvar Hanso. Come on!

Exactly, he doesn't mention the hatch or bunker.. He could be just referring to the island, not the hatch.

I think the "opening doors you shouldn't be opening" comment while giving Locke a pointed look WAS a very obvious reference to at least one of the hatches.

I hadn't thought about the fact that they can't exactly LET the lostaways leave for fear of exposure...that is a pretty insightful thought.

I'm not convinced "the others" are part of the psychological experiment, well, or I should say I'm not convinced they are/were the LEADERS of it. I'm more inclined to think they were themselves the original lab rats and they went awry.

When Jack mentions Ethan, Zeke replies something to the effect of, "Nice theory." I don't think Ethan was a part of their others, not because he doesnt confirm he was or wasn't, but because he basically dismisses it.
I think he was more speaking of Jack saying that they didn't have a lot of people. Jack used Ethan as an example and Beardo just said "nice theory." And then Jack was proven wrong.

One set of Others. There's no reason their'd be two with the same child snatching habbits and the super good hunter / tracker / disappearing off into nowhere skills.

I don't think the Others can get in the Hatch - if its their food and guns why didn't they take it earlier? Desmond was in there under "lock down" keeping them out but once he departed the Others are well aware that its a small group of confused crash victims who would be easy to overpower. But they do nothing directly attacking the hatch to retreive the food or guns which are stored there. Why? Does the reset button have something to do with this? The monster? The Others also seem to be well aware of what the Losties are doing in the hatch but aren't interferring while claiming its their stuff/house. Someone posted that Locke took his shoes off when he first entered the hatch at some point - I can't remember but if its true it gives more credibility to the fact that the Others are very aware of the goings on inside the hatch.

When he said (paraphrase) "Don't cross this line", I thought he was talking about entering that part of the island rather than a behavioral thing. Kind of like, you stay in your yard and behave and we will let you live. Anyone else get that? Or is it just me?

I think "the line" is figurative. As in, if you commit an act of war against us, then you'll have yourselves a REAL war, as opposed to the "misunderstanding" they supposedly have now.

And I soooo agree about the lack of asking questions being frustrating. I think most human beings would be asking questions. It seems unnatural for them all to stand there with menacing looks on their faces, instead of asking questions.

Here is what I think. Ethan wasn't working with "Zeke", but he might know Ethan. There are more than one group of others out there. I think that is pretty obvious by the way each group behaves and operates.

Jack did not ask many questions because all he knows about other people on the island is that they are aggresive, and you don't start asking silly questions like how to get off the island. If they knew, they probably wouldn't be there. And especially if they are holding the woman you love hostage.

Why they didn't ask Kate about what she saw?

a) they might do it during the next episode or two
b) they assumed they blind folded her right away.
c) as Javi said before, they can't show every itsy bitsy detail of them having water cooler discussions.

If Zeke et al are "The Others", why did they take so many from the Taily camp but no one (or very few depending on your own personal theory of what happend to Joanna). Possibly The Zekes need the Lostaways for some unknown reason? Perhaps they need them to push the button or will need them in the future; so instead of killing or abducting them now they are letting our Losties live, but with the stipulation that they (the Zekes) are in charge.

Now what could the Zeke's possibly need them for? I have no clue, this is just half of a theory!!!:blushing: