I fully understand that many of you don't like Jesus, the Bible, Christians, or anything else you can associate with them (which, in this case, includes this episode). The Christian bashing, however, is immature and completely out of place here. This is a forum for us to discuss the show; it is not a forum for us to air our grievances or have arguments about society.

Look at it this way... A plane crashes on a remote island in the South Pacific. The survivors quickly lose hope of any rescue. They now live in fear of kidnappers on power boats, an allegedly debilitating "sickness," tropic-dwelling polar bears, some freaky black smoke that arbitrarily kills people or drags them underground, and an insane French woman with a gun. Amidst all of this, most people would probably be praying. A LOT. Yet, in more than a full season only one scene showed someone on the island praying; and a brief scene at that. Perhaps, just maybe, Christians were as annoyed with the substantial lack of religion as you were with its brief presence.

The fact is, we in the forum don't write the story--we have to take what's handed to us. Locke is a hunter, and circumstance made that fact public knowledge. Jack is a leader, and circumstance made that fact public knowledge as well. Eko is a Christian. Let Christians be Christians.

I like Christian just fine. I just think he was a crappy father to Jack. I also think he cheated on his wife. But, it's a TV show, just entertainment. Christian Sheppard is a great character.

Oh...wait.....THOSE Christians. I like them just fine, too.

I like Christian just fine. I just think he was a crappy father to Jack. I also think he cheated on his wife. But, it's a TV show, just entertainment. Christian Sheppard is a great character.

Oh...wait.....THOSE Christians. I like them just fine, too.
You are a genius.

Edited for clarity:
I really meant that. Your post made me laugh quite hard. Sorry if my vagueness caused some hard feelings.

You are a genius.

Thank you. You know, it's just a TV show, right? If you want serious, okey doke.

I am a Christian myself and I find that I am able to draw people into discussions about Christ and Jesus much easier if I am not ramming it down their throats or standing on a high horse telling them how crappy they are. Lead by example. Live the life. Light the Way.

I can tell you that no one is gonna change their views about Christianity because someone got all huffy about it and told them they were bad, bad, BAD for thinking the way they do or saying the things they say. I know plenty of Bible bangers that send curious people running for the hills.

Judge not lest ye be judged.

Love they neighbor as thy self.

Words to live by. Just a suggestion.

Now, I will go back to being a genius. :)


Edit: Hey, no hard feelings. I just knew this thread was gonna start an uproar...trying to de-fuse it.

I concur, and I am not even religious (wait, does math count as a religion?). Atheists are their ilk rarely have the foresight to understand that their anti-religion dogma is just as bad as any religions proselytizing

I fully understand that many of you don't like Jesus, the Bible, Christians, or anything else you can associate with them (which, in this case, includes this episode). The Christian bashing, however, is immature and completely out of place here. This is a forum for us to discuss the show; it is not a forum for us to air our grievances or have arguments about society.


Curiously, you say "This is a forum for us to discuss the show; it is not a forum for us to air our grievances or have arguments about society." but yet you title the thread "Enough Christian Bashing". That sounds like a grievance. That sounds an awful lot like a statement on society to me. It sounds to me that you are telling people how to think, feel, believe and how to behave within certain parameters of society. No?

Ditto for "The Christian bashing, however, is immature and completely out of place". Again, a grievance and a statement about how people are behaving in a certain society. Curiouser and curiouser.

Turn the other cheek my friend. :)

I concur, and I am not even religious (wait, does math count as a religion?). Atheists are their ilk rarely have the foresight to understand that their anti-religion dogma is just as bad as any religions proselytizing
Anti-relgious 'dogma' could never be as bad as out and out religious zealotry
**Edited to remove offensive language.**

The fact that so many affluent upper middle class christians now seem to think of themselves as some sort of minority is laughable, even further more is the notion that they are somehow 'oppressed'. The day criticising such a huge force in world events and cultural problems becomes 'racist' or 'prejudiced' is the day that democracy has utterly failed




**Mod edited because the language in this post appears to be flaming.**

Anti-relgious 'dogma' could never be as bad as out and out religious zealotry, perhaps when 'not believing' becomes as destructive a force, as crude and ignorant a presence and as openly against progress as religious zealots have been again and again for several thousand years...

Interesting, my post was neither all-inclusive or in reference to fanatical partisans.

...then perhaps you'll start to reach something of a point.

Dear sir, your "frothing at the mouth" response has made my case for me.

The day criticising such a huge force in world events and cultural problems becomes 'racist' or 'prejudiced' is the day that democracy has utterly failed.

I don't even know where to begin with this one. Does anyone else find this funny?

This thread doesn't appear to be about the episode. Moving the thread to Off-topic.

I have failed to see any christian bashing, why must you play the martyr, 80% of Americans are christian. Christians in this country are in no way persecuted, Christians control ALL aspects of this society. They control the Senate, House, Executive and Judicial branches of our government. Sorry, if you really feel it, but I just dont see it.

Curiously, you say "This is a forum for us to discuss the show; it is not a forum for us to air our grievances or have arguments about society." but yet you title the thread "Enough Christian Bashing". That sounds like a grievance. That sounds an awful lot like a statement on society to me. It sounds to me that you are telling people how to think, feel, believe and how to behave within certain parameters of society. No?

Ditto for "The Christian bashing, however, is immature and completely out of place". Again, a grievance and a statement about how people are behaving in a certain society. Curiouser and curiouser.
WHOA! HEY! I should've been a little clearer in my thread title. I should've called it "Enough Christian bashing on the board" as this episode set off a firestorm of anti-Christian remarks in several different threads. My point is that whether or not we on the board like Christianity is irrelevant. Eko is a Christian. We shouldn't be having arguments about "Chrisitan religion bull" or "Bush's crusade against Islam" or anything else outside of the show.

The point of this thread was to ask people to reduce the political chatter and stick to the show. I felt it was pertinent as the board was becoming rife with some rather hateful remarks that clearly don't belong.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings. Sorry for any confusion.

I have failed to see any christian bashing, why must you play the martyr, 80% of Americans are christian.
If you'll reread my original post you'll see that I'm not playing a martyr or anything of the sort. I'm not even referencing being personally attacked. I'm just saying this board shouldn't be used for bashing anyone no matter who they are; we're supposed to be having fun here.

Christians in this country are in no way persecuted, Christians control ALL aspects of this society. They control the Senate, House, Executive and Judicial branches of our government. Sorry, if you really feel it, but I just dont see it.
Again, this is what I'm talking about. No offense but you're way off topic. You're posting your opinion about Christians when we're supposed to be discussing the show. Granted, my post wasn't about the show per se but it was about what was happening on the board as a result of this episode.


***MOD-EDITED - Please don't reply to your own posts, but EDIT them and use the MULTIQUOTE FUNCTION!***

Locke is a hunter, and circumstance made that fact public knowledge. Jack is a leader, and circumstance made that fact public knowledge as well. Eko is a Christian. Let Christians be Christians.

I have to agree with you enormous trousers! :ntworthy:

I like Christian just fine. I just think he was a crappy father to Jack. I also think he cheated on his wife. But, it's a TV show, just entertainment. Christian Sheppard is a great character.

Oh...wait.....THOSE Christians. I like them just fine, too.

OMG Dangerkitty, that was hilarious! :roflmao:

WHOA! HEY!
Again, this is what I'm talking about. No offense but you're way off topic. You're posting your opinion about Christians when we're supposed to be discussing the show. Granted, my post wasn't about the show per se but it was about what was happening on the board as a result of this episode.

Yeah, sorry but the title of the thread is Enough with the Christian bashing so I dont see how im way off topic, I dont see it (the christian bashing) and I stated so, that is my opinion. But the fact that ~80% of this country is christian and they control the Executive, sentate,and house is in no way an opinion, its fact. I didnt say anything negative about christians so whats the problem? Additionally its in the OFF TOPIC section of the board.
And just because someone doesnt like all the christian references in the show doesnt make them a christian basher, it just means they dont like all the references, Id say they are entitled to that opinion. Personally, I find all religion interesting and I enjoy the fact that they are tying in that type of mythology.

Actually your reference to Christianity is quite off. Are you telling me that 80% of the this country is Christian!?! then why the heck did Bush barely win? America is not 80% republican so it can't be 80% Christian.
granted, there are some democratic Christians, and that's fine... but it's a rarity to find a liberal who is "christian" and for that matter, believes in God.

I'm not here to bash political parties, but to just show the inaccuracy of people always saying that America is "just full of middle class christians" The media is controlled by the liberals anyways... and that's a part of our society......as you claimed was controlled by christians. This country is barely 30 percent Christian. It might be the "national religion" if you want to call it that... but that doesn't make them Christians... just because you go to church doesn't make you a christian. Believing in (as in the God of the Bible) God doesn't make you a Christian.

Actually your reference to Christianity is quite off. Are you telling me that 80% of the this country is Christian!?! then why the heck did Bush barely win? America is not 80% republican so it can't be 80% Christian.
granted, there are some democratic Christians, and that's fine... but it's a rarity to find a liberal who is "christian" and for that matter, believes in God.

I'm not here to bash political parties, but to just show the inaccuracy of people always saying that America is "just full of middle class christians" The media is controlled by the liberals anyways... and that's a part of our society......as you claimed was controlled by christians. This country is barely 30 percent Christian. It might be the "national religion" if you want to call it that... but that doesn't make them Christians... just because you go to church doesn't make you a christian. Believing in (as in the God of the Bible) God doesn't make you a Christian.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with everything you just said.

The majority of Democrats are christians and approxiatly 80% of the population of the United States of America are christian. Here's a link with the state by state break down.
Its a little outdated but I dont believe the religous percentages have changed that much of the last few years.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/2002/2002-03-07-no-religion.htm

You rarely find a liberal that believes in God?? I think I'm just gonna leave this whole post alone. I really think you need to do some serious research on the subject your talking about.

Oh yay a thread about CHristians where I can make my very first post!:)

"Christians in this country are in no way persecuted,"

I am Christian and I have been attacked for it and put down. I have been told to keep my religion "in the prayer closet" and "in church." People don't want to believe that there are people out there who hate Christians and who make no excuses about being loud about that fact and in some people's faces over it. My bf's grandpa is a radical atheist and he goes on and on and people just roll their eyes at him because he brings up his atheism constantly. It's his own religion. Meh. You know? He believes it and preaches it and those of us who are Christians, we just remain silent. I've sat through his ramblings biting my tongue.

I don't mind the Christian stuff in Lost, and I very much enjoyed the backstory on Eko. I do get worried though that they will not treat the Christian aspect with respect.

I don't see why anyone would be upset with the Christian stuff in the show as it's just a show and the island shows you people from all walks of life, and Christianity exists in society.

So I guess if you don't like Christians you really should get some help to cleanse yourself of that hate because it will only end up hurting you in the end.

People believe what they want to believe, anyway. Some people want to believe Christians are bad, and they will make stuff up and make broad generalisations to support their personal feelings.

If you want to be respected then you must be respectful and of course calling someone's faith a "myth" isn't being respectful. I sure don't go around attacking other religions or putting down people of faith.

As for "judge not", Jesus also said "go and sin no more." So you shouldn't forget that He wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade, and He wasn't a hippie man preaching do whatever you want it's all about the love, mon. Nope! LOL:)

I haven't seen any bashing as such. I have seen concern from people that Christian imagery might take over the show..and that is a valid point. I wouldn't want to have my favorite show full of character who were into house cat worshipping all the time. I mean I respect people who hold deeply held beliefs but I just wouldn't want what I don't happen to believe in my face while I'm trying to watch my favorite show.

However having said that I don't think there is anything to worry about. The Christian imagary I have seen is usually connected to characters who happen to be Christians.

If you want to be respected then you must be respectful and of course calling someone's faith a "myth" isn't being respectful. I sure don't go around attacking other religions or putting down people of faith.


I assume you are addressing this

"Personally, I find all religion interesting and I enjoy the fact that they are tying in that type of mythology."

I didn’t attack any religion or put down anyone’s faith. I simply meant that I have enjoyed all the religious imagery in the show, Christian, eastern philosophies, South Pacific mythology, etc and I am glad they are tying those ideas in with the show. But in response, I believe this may be the root of the problem, we see religion from two very different sides. The Greeks and Romans believed in their Gods and religions also and now it’s mythology. Most current religions serve the same purpose as extinct religions or myths, they explain creation, they explain us and give us a path to walk upon in life. Maybe the difference between mythology and religion is simply the time in which you live. (JMO) So I view all religions in the same way, to me they are different paths to live your life by. That doesn’t mean I look down upon anyone or any religion. If we see religion in different terms it doesn’t mean I am attacking or degrading you or your beliefs, we just differ and that’s all it has to be.

I'm fine with anyone's religion as long as they're not fanatics about it or try to force it one me. But as far as I can tell people are only 'bashing' Christianity within the context of the show. They just don't agree with Eko's religion. I don't see that as being much worse than someone who doesn't happen to like Jack posting a thread saying how terrible he is. I like Jack, thus I am free to disagree with the opinion. This being only my opinion anyone is free to disagree with it as well.

Lol, i'm hardly going to trust something from the media which is controlled by people who can put out whatever they want and people will eat it, blood and all.

Obviously, our definition of Christian is different, and i can agree with you to disagree. I hope i didn't sound mean or trite. have a good day :)

Speaking only as a poster here...not as a minimod...

I have been hesitant to post in any of the threads related to Christianity lately. However, since Enormous Trousers pmd me, I decided to share my thoughts here. I am a Christian, and while I believe the same basic tenets of Christianity that most of the Christians here seem to believe, I also believe that I have seen controversy perpetuated on both sides of the aisle. I wouldn't call it all "bashing" though. Everyone hasn't fed the controversy, but some have on both sides. Sometimes it seemed intentional, and sometimes it wasn't intentional at all. I have been guilty of stirring religious controversy on this board myself in the past, albeit absolutely unintentionally and on a comparitively small scale. Sometimes it happens simply because of a poor choice of words, or misperception. As a poster, I would like to see that stop, but I realize it's probably unrealistic. All the same, I look at it this way. Sometimes the way to respectfully disagree is to not say anything at all.

IMHO, Christ was very plainspoken about the roles of the Christian. One of those roles is peacemaker... There have been several attempts at starting civil threads related to Christian themes. The problem is that once a post is made that someone finds offensive or erroneous, some posters find it impossible not to respond, as if it is their duty to set everyone straight. (I'm not talking specifically about one side or the other here. Both sides have done this too.)

From a Christian standpoint, I was taught, and I believe, that some people will choose not to accept God in any form or fashion, and that it isn't my Christian duty to change their minds against their will once that choice has been made. You can try to reach someone a few times, but after that it's a waste of spiritual energy. I think the same is true of this controversy. I just don't believe an impersonal message board environment is a good vehicle for Christian debate. It's very difficult to communicate these matters in the spirit in which they are intended in person, let alone a message board. Therefore, arguing our points with a non-believer is just a spiritual drain. Clearly, someone who asks us about our faith is looking for answers. In the appropriate venue, I think that's a wonderful thing to respond to. I'm also not saying we can't support each other, which is equally wonderful. I just think there must be some way of doing that without being antagonistic to posters who do not share, and cannot abide, our faith.

I think that the basic things that people found "wrong" in the show have been clearly delineated. To what purpose were these things done in the show? I don't know, though I have some ideas. The point is that the motivations of the writers and their characters are all speculative right now and I would like to discuss them. I think it would be great if we could discuss Christianity in the show in a less antagonistic atmosphere. I know A.C.T.S. is in the Off-topic groups, but has anyone considered or tried starting a Lost-related group for Christians on Christianity in the show? It wouldn't preclude discussion in other areas, but it would allow something of a safe-haven for those who wish to avoid controversy.

I, personally, do not wish to agitate myself or anyone else by continuing to dwell on the controversy. Nor do I wish to "fight the good fight" in an arena that ultimately has no bearing in the real world. This is a message board about a T.V.show. I would rather choose my fights instead of reacting every time I am apparently baited.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents...for what it's worth.

:clap: Well said shootfire.

I also agree that you should not try to push your beliefs on someone who doesn't want to hear it. If someone wants to hear about Christ then I am more than happy to share but if someone makes it clear they want nothing to do with Christianity then I wont push it.

Also people keep saying that Eko is a christian yet I thought he was Catholic. :confused:

Protestants, Catholic or Orthodox... they are all christian beliefs...based around the bible.
The difference is what each direction emphasize. If any christians on this board chooses to open a thread, non-christians are not forced to reply to such a thread. And vice versa.

If u somehow must do so, respect each others views, and if its proves hard, walk away, and no bashing!!!

To those who dont share christian beliefs, you are all welcome to post as long as your post's dont harrass, use derogatory terms, and dont violate the rules of this website.

Also people keep saying that Eko is a christian yet I thought he was Catholic. :confused:

*pssstt* Catholics are Christians....:smile:

Edit: JL beat me to it. :biggrin:

I would just like to add that the origonal poster and myself have taken the time to talk this over in private and it is all good. Problems arrise at times when vocal inflections are missing and all you have is the written word.

We have handled this in a respectful, and dare I say, Christian, manner. Although the original poster did not intend to spark off a controversy, it is kind of nice to see some exchange of ideas.

carry on....

I would like to say that I enjoyed the thought process of reading this thread.

What I enjoy about the lost is bringing in the background knowledge of viewers to interpret the script with it's symbolism so that it is more enjoyable on a intellectual/metaphisical way.

When I read that 108 was an important number to another religion, I researched it. If I was a non-christian I would investiagate that as well because it is not only part of Eko's character but also Charlie's. When someone told me that Aaron was Moses' brother, I had to admit my old Testiment knowledge was a bit sparce and I looked into that as well.

I think that if someone was to turn their back on some this information because they didn't agree that it was appropriate it is they that would miss out. Too Bad.

One thing I'm thinking about after reading this thread is: We have a Leader named Shepard who is not the Priest. I find that interesting.

Another thought: Many people made the connection between Hitler and Hanso. Hitler had a very strong opinion about religion. I wonder if that will fit in to the societies that are developing on the Lost. If you think about it, many world countries have issues with all or any types of religion. If the Lost is a type of sociology project, maybe this issue is important on this level.

I understand both sides of this "debate" - I hate it when a Jehovah's witness shows up at my door - and I also dont believe in shoving my faith down someone's throat. (Now if someone raises a social issue like gay rights or abortion, & I feel I need to say something, I will.)

But this was the reason I started A.C.T.S. - so we Christians on the board could feel free to discuss our faith without coming off as preaching to the non believers . My faith tells me to spread the Gospel, so - at the very least - I'm gonna make it clear to anyone who reads my profile that I am a Christian. And if anyone's interested or just curious - they know where to find us.

I concur, and I am not even religious (wait, does math count as a religion?). Atheists are their ilk rarely have the foresight to understand that their anti-religion dogma is just as bad as any religions proselytizing
What an unfounded and silly statement.

*pssstt* Catholics are Christians....:smile:

Edit: JL beat me to it. :biggrin:


But you said it and made me laugh!

JL - you are so pc I didn't even realize you were correcting someone.

Lol, i'm hardly going to trust something from the media which is controlled by people who can put out whatever they want and people will eat it, blood and all.

Obviously, our definition of Christian is different, and i can agree with you to disagree. I hope i didn't sound mean or trite. have a good day :)

Regarding the percentage of Christians in the US population, that survey was done by the
American Religious Identification Survey 2001 (ARIS). I doubt they have an agenda , as I doubt your allegation that there is a liberal bias in the media, but I know you believe that so I wont try to give your reasons why a liberal bias in the media is a falseshood. (do you really think USA today has some secret agenda?) All that aside, I ask that you look up your own info (on the different religions of the USA), pick any source of information you would like and compare what percentage of US households follow what religion. I think much as the survey I referenced showed, any source you will find will show the same numbers.

good day to you as well

Well everything on the news (mostly CBS and CNN) is anti Bush and anti positive. I mean.... it's not very common for the news to do stories about good things happening. I'm really sorry if i offended you on making not so nice remarks about liberals. I truly am; my bad. And i'm sure we only notice things about the news that irk us, so maybe you might think the news is to righty i dunno lol.

Anyways, thx John_Locke and Shootfire

From a sort-of neutral position (ex-Christian who has studied a number of religions from a theology viewpoint) I find that it's about 50:50. I think the problem is that when you are a follower of a certain set of beliefs (be they religious, political, musical or sport) you tend to see aspects of your favoured religion/politics/music/sport everywhere as you are familiar with them. Naturally you would comment on these aspects.

Unfortunately not everyone will agree with your opinion. It doesn't make one person right and one person wrong - they both have valid opinions. How you disagree with someone, now that is the key, and unfortunately the internet is not always the best place to try and have a discussion. I have had discussions online with friends with differing opinions that would have played out totally differently if we were face-to-face.

If everyone took a little more time to think about how they phrase their comments and the language that is used, it might go some way to alleviating the perceived bashing (where it is unintentional - there will always be trolls).

That said, I still get annoyed by some innocent comments, and I'm sure some of mine annoy others :) You can't please everyone all of the time, but as the recent Danish cartoon debacle has shown, you can exercise judgment and hopefully not put your foot in your own mouth.

ETA: Oh, and in reply to the original post - if you make comments about a certain religion, on a multi-religion board such as this, you should expect that there will be at least 1 person who disagrees with you. If an episode references something controversial (be it religion, politics, race or the tastiest breakfast cereal) there will be a discussion - so long as it stay on-topic and relevant to the issues raised by the episode, I personally don't see a problem.

If someone were to start preaching about their religion/politics/musical tastes/insertownhere where it had no relevance to the show, then I'd probably get narked :)

Seems to me that Christianity is the only religion left people seem to have no trouble picking apart. I doubt the people who do it would do the same with any other religion. Wouldn't be PC now would it?