Okay - I know it's all old stuff - but I watched these eps this afternoon and there's so much in there I'd like to hear other pple's opinions on... lol. So here goes; anything you've got to tell me - I know it's a lot! Lol...

1 It seemed to me Jack was not so much in the leading position as I thought before; he was the doctor, okay, and went for the cockpit. But take Sayid, for instance, who helped calm the people down, set up the transceiver project and the three groups to look over (what was it? technique, water and food?). He took the lead more than Jack did.

2 The relationship between Kate and Jack.
He opens up to her the first time they meet (about the counting). She tells him everything - lays burdens of knowledge on him, takes his hopes away. And comes to tell him she's going on a hike. Why all this?
On the other hand there are Jack's harsh comments; 'it seems to me you have trouble staying in one place for very long' - in a defense against her teasing him that he's worried. Harsher - "I've seen your mugshot, Kate. I am not a murderer." Real nasty! He's not that nice of a guy?

3 Ehm - since I don't drink at all myself - is it normal to have such a strong drink in the middle of the day (after being in the bar at the airport already) when grieving, or does Jack seem to have some (beginning) alcohol issues himself?

4 Jack escaped the monster - that was 'right behind me' by diving into the bushes?

5 Jack woke up in the middle of the jungle - how is that possible? We did see him fasten his seatbelt. The bottle in his pocket was whole.

6 Jack's knowledge on airplanes (weakly explained by 'I took a couple of flying lessons'), his going out for the cockpit, stepping into a fight - his general attitude towards surviving, including his physical posture and stuff, makes me wonder what's behind that. (added later his skill with guns and 'I'm not putting guns in untrained hands')

7 He resents Rose's remarks about his good soul

8 He doesn't want to know what Kate did, he doesn't want to lead the service (asks; 'why me?' and states 'not my business, not my problem' - he doesn't really want anything to do with other people's 'things.'

9 He tells Kate the marshall'll die, yet denies this later and is willing to waste medicine on him. Not very responsible?

hm - this really IS a lot... some things are in other threads already, maybe?
well - I'll hear!

Gosh you really do have a lot to say here. I think I would have to tackle each point individually. Nice points for discussion with slightly different ways of looking at things too. So here goes.:biggrin:


1 It seemed to me Jack was not so much in the leading position as I thought before; he was the doctor, okay, and went for the cockpit. But take Sayid, for instance, who helped calm the people down, set up the transceiver project and the three groups to look over (what was it? technique, water and food?). He took the lead more than Jack did.

You are right in some respects, Jack was a very reluctant leader in the beginning, he did things taht needed to be done but never looked for that role on his own. He was very insecure about leading the castaways as you see in the next episode White Rabbit. Sayid was moe of the up front take charge person, Jack was more the behind the scenes quietly getting other things done and taking care of the wounded.

He opens up to her the first time they meet (about the counting). She tells him everything - lays burdens of knowledge on him, takes his hopes away.

What exactly did Kate tell Jack during the show's first three episodes?

Maybe Jack is one of the others :O lol.. jk

Let me see if I can offer any insight here that makes sense. After all, on those questionare things 3 out of 4 times I'm matched up to Jack, and 1 time to Sayid.

1 It seemed to me Jack was not so much in the leading position as I thought before; he was the doctor, okay, and went for the cockpit. But take Sayid, for instance, who helped calm the people down, set up the transceiver project and the three groups to look over (what was it? technique, water and food?). He took the lead more than Jack did.

Jack had issues of his own. He was seeing his dead father almost from the start. (Hmm! Jack was also the first main person to shed blood on the island, maybe he got the sickness first from the wound? If so why isnt he really freaking out now. Maybe he's a carrier?) And didnt really want to get involved and lead. Not everyone with a type A leadership personality likes to lead. But he is a born leader, the people saw it even if he didnt. I think he came to terms with this right around the time he found the water for the main group...

2 The relationship between Kate and Jack.
He opens up to her the first time they meet (about the counting). She tells him everything - lays burdens of knowledge on him, takes his hopes away. And comes to tell him she's going on a hike. Why all this?
On the other hand there are Jack's harsh comments; 'it seems to me you have trouble staying in one place for very long' - in a defense against her teasing him that he's worried. Harsher - "I've seen your mugshot, Kate. I am not a murderer." Real nasty! He's not that nice of a guy?

I think the telling about counting was to at least in part relieve and calm her for the task at hand (Stiching him up), dont forget that at this time those two hardly knew each other, but some basic attraction was there right from the get go. (At least in my opinion there was. Same was as there was between Jack and Anna-Lucia) Jack offers her some privacy and consoling words by saying that he doesnt want to know, that everybody gets a new start on the island. Later on they have a disagreement (I really should go back and rewatch all of season 1. Those were some really good times...)

3 Ehm - since I don't drink at all myself - is it normal to have such a strong drink in the middle of the day (after being in the bar at the airport already) when grieving, or does Jack seem to have some (beginning) alcohol issues himself?

Hmm, there's plenty of times I've had a good stiff drink during the day. And I dont consider myself anywhere near alcoholicism. On my mothers side runs a long, long line of alcoholics. I think I could be the very first person from my mothers bloodline who didnt turn out that way. On one hand, I dont mind getting really sauced if it's 10 am in the morning if I have no responsibilities for the rest of the day, and on the other hand sometimes I go weeks to months without a single drink. Even with the stereotypical style of television, alcoholism is never as easy to define as everyone likes to say it is.

4 Jack escaped the monster - that was 'right behind me' by diving into the bushes?

Ugh, who knows what happend there. Did Jack really confront the monster and not tell everybody. Was he snatched, killed, and replaced with a different Jack? Did he just get really lucky? As of right now it's on my long, long list of mysterys about Lost.

5 Jack woke up in the middle of the jungle - how is that possible? We did see him fasten his seatbelt. The bottle in his pocket was whole.

And very unbroken. I'm with you on this one, very strange. But who knows. It's documented that Tornados have thrown straws of hay thru tree's and telephone poles without bending or breaking the straw. Chickens and other animals have been picked up and carried sometimes miles before landing uninjured (Same tornado thing). A man fell 2 miles skydiving when his shoot didnt open, landed on the ground, bounced about 10 feet up in the air and only gotten a minor break to his leg. (Also documented. Look it up) Strange things happen. This is also a mystery of Lost and has made the list of my unexplained mysterys. There might be something here, there might not.

6 Jack's knowledge on airplanes (weakly explained by 'I took a couple of flying lessons'), his going out for the cockpit, stepping into a fight - his general attitude towards surviving, including his physical posture and stuff, makes me wonder what's behind that. (added later his skill with guns and 'I'm not putting guns in untrained hands')

Not sure what your driving at. Now that you mention it though, it does seem interesting that he would make a comment "I'm not putting guns in untrained hands." and yet he takes one for himself. Perk of leadership? Or is there more to Jack then we presently know? Did he plan on shooting the person that Sara cheated on him with? Or did he plan on shooting her at one time? Would make for a interesting flashback, wouldnt it?

7 He resents Rose's remarks about his good soul.

Now I'm definently going to have to go back and rewatch. I dont remember this, is this when they were talking on the beach when she was distancing herself from the rest of the group?

8 He doesn't want to know what Kate did, he doesn't want to lead the service (asks; 'why me?' and states 'not my business, not my problem' - he doesn't really want anything to do with other people's 'things.'

This kinda goes back to question 1, but let me add a bit more to it. I think in the very beginning that he, just like everyone else, expected a quick rescue off of the island. Why become involved with people if your just going to get away from them anyways. But as the days go on he realizes that this is not going to happen. Therefor maybe then he became more willing to step into the role of leader instead of letting his best chance of surviving on this island (Remember his speech, live together or die alone.) go to waste.

9 He tells Kate the marshall'll die, yet denies this later and is willing to waste medicine on him. Not very responsible?

If we can fault Jack with one thing (And we have seen this over and over again, with Boone, with the Marshal, with Sara and her broken back, and with the old man who died) is that once he undergoes a course of action he becomes obsessive about completing it. "You will walk again", "I'm going to fix you" This could very well be his greatest hangup, his inability to see reality for what it is sometimes. Either that or he was just trying to keep the marshal as comfortable as possible till he died, take your pick. :)

Well, there's alot here. And I hope I can at least offer you my insight to what's going on with Jack. None of this is proven fact mind you, just my opinion as someone who's watched the show over and over and over again.
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Maybe Jack is one of the others :O lol.. jk

Nothing is written in stone here. He very well could be one of the others. I dont suspect that is the case, but who knows. Maybe the others had lives outside of the island and joined one of the other camps upon arrival? Until we have answers it's all up for grabs.

Jack helped everyone in the very first moment of the plane crash. He took control so many, many times. He made decisions that were not easy or popular. I think Sayid was good also at helping but Jack really did take complete control (although he was reluctant) and really did bring the groups together numerous times to give them reassurance when they were scared or needed it. He thought of the group first even when he was freaking out about Locke, he was able to turn around when Kate mentioned how scared everyone was and how they needed him I think Jack isn't perfect so not every moment has the perfect reaction but looking at the whole picture or what he does the majority of the times, I'd say he does an excellent job leading. In terms of Kate, they connected almost instantly. In the first moment of his needing her to help him, and sharing a story about coping with fear (which Kate was able to utilize at a later point) I think it shows the immediate bond and connection these two have. Kate did want to open up to Jack about her past but he told her not to, because they all start fresh on the island. But you really got the feeling that these two were somehow comfortable right from their first moments together. And both of them were protective of each other, and wanted to watch out for each other. Jack ran from the monster, just as they all did, but Kate was frantic when she thought something may have happenned to him and was willing to go back to find him, Isolated comments do not make Jack mean or nasty but in some ways show some of the frustration he was having with Kate. I think again, it is not the isolated comment that is telling but rather the bulk of the reactions that Jack has had with Kate which are pretty supportive and caring. In terms of drinking in the afternoon, I think when your dad just died and your stressed out by problems getting the plan together and anxious in general (maybe he had some intuitive feeling of impending disaster) a stiff drink is not unusual for anyone. Jack waking up in the jungle just like all the other islanders was not any more unusual in that most of them did not sustain many injuries overall. Could be something about the island which has been mentioned by several islanders at different times. I think Jacks background story in regards to flying/guns etc. has yet to be completely explained. His desire to not give up on the Marshal is like his attitude towards everyone who he tends to. He cannot let it go and wants to heal the person at all costs. Sometimes this has paid off like in the case of Charlie who others may have stopped trying to revive early on, but Jack just kept trying and Charlie was alright. He mentioned to someone how he was 'no saint either' and so I think Rose saying her comment just made him uncomfortable in that he knows he has flaws also and does not want anyone to think otherwise. The overall picture of Jack is pretty terrific with your flaws and mistakes thrown in here and there.

What did Kate tell Jack the first 3 episodes? She told him about the distress signal - 'I wanted to tell you'; she came to him especially to tell him she went on a hike; she wanted to tell him what she'd done; (and about Locke - but that's not really a point).

Not sure what your driving at. Now that you mention it though, it does seem interesting that he would make a comment "I'm not putting guns in untrained hands." and yet he takes one for himself. Perk of leadership? Or is there more to Jack then we presently know? Did he plan on shooting the person that Sara cheated on him with? Or did he plan on shooting her at one time? Would make for a interesting flashback, wouldnt it
You about got what I was driving at - maybe Jack was not just an innocent spinal surgeon, but something else as well (i've heard the word airforce).
It's hard to imagine Jack revengeful, though.

Now I'm definently going to have to go back and rewatch. I dont remember this, is this when they were talking on the beach when she was distancing herself from the rest of the group?
Yes, it was then. Maybe 'resent' is a strong word here by the way, but when she said that, it seemed (to me at least) he did not agree.

Maybe Jack is an Other
This is an idea I've heard before, and it's cool - but...
it would mean memories were toyed with (Charlie's, Rose's, Locke's - they all saw him on the plane), and his own as well - which could fit in with the 'crazy-jack-is-not-just-a-surgeon'-thing. But..why would the Others brainwash one of their own so he'd be the hero of the pack!?
Would be cool though ; "Jack suddenly realised, "I wasn't on the plane..." "
Heck - maybe there was no crash - I think this could be possible, lol.

5 Jack woke up in the middle of the jungle - how is that possible? We did see him fasten his seatbelt. The bottle in his pocket was whole.


This was actually discussed on another thread and I think someone said that in the dvd one of the producers said it was done for dramatic effect. But you do bring up a good point about the alcohol bottle being intact. Another theory could be that he was moved into the jungle by someone


7 He resents Rose's remarks about his good soul

I don't know if Jack resents Rose's remarks, but I do think he was uncomfortable with her remarks. Jack has some self esteem problems. He has been told by is father that he not good enough he believes that he killed his father, so at this point in the show he is not exactly feeling good about himself.

On the side --
just happened to catch a clip of exodus 2 (was it?), with the dynamite and stuff.
Dudes - when you just watch all the epis you don't really notice it, because it goes gradually I guess, but - Jack's like a whole different person/leader;

so the island did teach him - to make decisions and stand for them - to learn him to get what it takes. amazing - you should really compare 1.2 with 1.? (season finale)

[QUOTE=Jackaroo;762491]Okay - I know it's all old stuff - but I watched these eps this afternoon and there's so much in there I'd like to hear other pple's opinions on... lol. So here goes; anything you've got to tell me - I know it's a lot! Lol...

1 It seemed to me Jack was not so much in the leading position as I thought before; he was the doctor, okay, and went for the cockpit. But take Sayid, for instance, who helped calm the people down, set up the transceiver project and the three groups to look over (what was it? technique, water and food?). He took the lead more than Jack did.

I'm sure I'm making this up. But when Jack makes his speech in WR, he very unintentionally, takes away Sayid's chances to be top dog. If you pay attention to Sayid in that scene when Jack gets back you might see what I'm talking about. Or I'm just insane and enjoy staring at Naveen Andrews. Which I am and I do. But that seemed to be the moment when that non-power struggle ended. I love that Jack got some power, and he didn't even intend or try to go for it.



6 Jack's knowledge on airplanes (weakly explained by 'I took a couple of flying lessons'), his going out for the cockpit, stepping into a fight - his general attitude towards surviving, including his physical posture and stuff, makes me wonder what's behind that. (added later his skill with guns and 'I'm not putting guns in untrained hands')

I always thought he stopped trying to fly cause he wasn't good at it. Like he was used to excelling at everything.

More season 1 stuff please. I love it. :)