i'll admit i am a Jack loyalist. but i even feel bad for the Locke fans after tonite. what was up with that whining on Locke's part? "you wanted to start an army but who knows why you didn't invite meee... wah" man, i laughed outloud during that. what a baby. sorry Lockies... :cool:

No, I don't think Locke is a whiner. Locke knows Jack doesn't trust him. he said that to prove he knows Locke doesn't trust him.

You know whats whiny? Jack : "shut up"

You know whats whiny? Jack : "shut up"
I thought that was within reason. Locke changes the combination twice, takes away all the guns because he opposes violence/war, & then he's speaking about the rules of engagement of being at war so that Jack will let Sayid torture the guy.

"shut up" is the opposite of whiny.

Yeah, explain that one Locke. If torture is okay because its something that happens in a war, then why hide the guns? Weapons are part of the reality of war too. Why leave your side defenseless if you're at war?

Correction - Locke took the weapons away to avert a big disaster. I spent four years in the Marine Corps and agree that the best way to handle the situation would not have been for Jack and a few stragglers to go rushing in full steam. Moves have to be calculated and that cannot be done in the heat of the moment. However passionate one may be, that just leads to more mistakes.

Locke was doing what he does - he was beating Jack at his own game and both he and Jack knew it. Jack wanted to go to war but wasn't willing to accept what goes along with it. That just shows that Jack was acting on pure emotion and no actual logic, which is a nice, quick way to get yourself killed. At least Locke acts with some common sense...not to mention calculation...

Go Locke! I personally found Jack more annoying. And whiney!

"shut up" is the opposite of whiny.

Not when it's because you don't have anything else to say because, well, you're whining that you didn't get your way. Sounds like a little kid who's upset that he has to do what his parents tell him ... you know, the people in your life that know better than you yet you hate to admit it - or don't have enough common sense to yet...
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Yeah, explain that one Locke. If torture is okay because its something that happens in a war, then why hide the guns? Weapons are part of the reality of war too. Why leave your side defenseless if you're at war?

Defenseless? They're not - they have the weapons. But, why go rushing into a gun fight with a knife, on someone else's territory? That's what Locke was preventing.

They're both whiney. Both of them are ideologues that are having trouble keeping faith in their beliefs and taking it out on each other and everyone else on the island.

"shut up" is the opposite of whiny.
That I agree with. But I didn't think anyone was "whiny"

Yeah, explain that one Locke. If torture is okay because its something that happens in a war, then why hide the guns? Weapons are part of the reality of war too. Why leave your side defenseless if you're at war?

perhaps cos he is already in league with the Others

Correction - Locke took the weapons away to avert a big disaster. I spent four years in the Marine Corps and agree that the best way to handle the situation would not have been for Jack and a few stragglers to go rushing in full steam. Moves have to be calculated and that cannot be done in the heat of the moment. However passionate one may be, that just leads to more mistakes.

Locke as doing what he does - he was beating Jack at his own game and both he and Jack knew it. Jack wanted to go to war but wasn't willing to accept what goes along with it. That just shows that Jack was acting on pure emotion and no actual logic, which is a nice, quick way to get yourself killed. At least Locke acts with some common sense...not to mention calculation...
Jack conferred with the group & agreed to speak w/Sun before taking action. It was within reason to want 2 guns to canvas the area for a potential Others lurking after a failed kidnapping.

Jack's MO has always been to apprise the group of what they're doing (HC,Ex,MOFMOS) & to create a plan...Of which those plans were made w/Locke/Sayid..In TLC he could have simply told ppl if you leave camp you do so at your own risk as they search the area.

Wanting to train an army suggests preparedness & not rash action..The Others have already snatched Walt, ravaged the TE's, shot Sawyer, blew up the raft & left Michael et al for dead. In HC they set up just defense & Sceve got killed. So I think it's logical to want to create an offense/defense.

When he's personally involved like trying to find C/C,Michael, Boone for i.e Jack has a tendency to be impulsive. However, with the group I've found him to act in their best interest.

Locke's actions always have double motive to me. In CM he knew Sawyer was innocent & cast suspicion on him like he wanted Sayid to torture him. I don't know what his motive was here because he did try to imply to Jack in TLC they couldn't be sure if the Others were a threat.

Locke's actions always have double motive to me. In CM he knew Sawyer was innocent & cast suspicion on him like he wanted Sayid to torture him. I don't know what his motive was here because he did try to imply to Jack in TLC they couldn't be sure if the Others were a threat.

man, i forgot that Locke gave him that knife... seems so long ago.

yes, Locke sure does like to spin things his own way, doesn't he? He blamed the Others for burning the raft, even though he knew it was Walt ... he doesn't think that the attack on Sun is worth revisiting the idea of some sort of protective force, yet one word from Danielle the Demented and he's all for some torture? And let's not forget his tantrum in DEM ... Boone is dying, and Locke is wailing at the hatch saying "why are you doing this to me"

Locke doesn't wear panties. He wears manly boxers, or boxerbriefs. Now Jack on the other hand doesn't have any pantylines.. therefore wears a girly thong.

i'll admit i am a Jack loyalist. but i even feel bad for the Locke fans after tonite. what was up with that whining on Locke's part? "you wanted to start an army but who knows why you didn't invite meee... wah" man, i laughed outloud during that. what a baby. sorry Lockies... :cool:

I didn't see that as whining...I saw that as Locke saying:

"You did what you thought needed to be done without consulting me....now I'm doing what I think needs to be done without consulting you."

I just know it felt good when Jack told Locke to 'shut up'.

I've been neutral about Locke until the past few episodes but I'm mad at him at the moment..and yes I hope its temporary.

What's the difference anyway? Who knows about this army? Kate doesn't and neither does Locke. Who did Jack recruit anyway? It seems that a lot of people don't know about it.

I laughed out loud when Jack told Locke to 'shut up.' He sounded like a teenage girl (no offense to the teenage girls out there.) Either that, or they sound like a married couple. I think Locke is more interested in gathering information and forming a strategy before making a move and Jack just wants to go out and shoot some island hillbillies. Locke is against anything that's going to risk lives without having a formulated plan. I think he regards Henry Gale as a fountain of knowledge, and with that knowledge they can act on their feelings without it being an illogical, passion-fueled rumble. But, you know, I'm a Locke loyalist through and through.

This episode just shows how much more open to suggestion Locke is getting. He allows torture because Sayid looks him in the eye and says it has to be done. Then he doesn't even try to get jack to let him go when the clock is counting down, no passion at all this episode. I actually like this Locke better than the punch out Charlie Locke. I hope he finds out what he is looking for on the island.

i think Locke's knickers were in a bit of a twist about the army situation. when Ethan was threatening to kill, Locke was part of the plan, and its just personal differences that have made Jack freeze him out now. locke would be perfect to lead the army.
but Jack's knickers are far worse:rolleyes:

DISCLAIMER: Terry O'Quinn is a God among men and a giant among actors and the character he plays with such utter brilliance is one of the most interesting and faceted in TV history.

But damn if this isn't the best thread title EVER. Sometimes, some things just need to be said and yes, Jack telling Locke to STFU is, to paraphrase a friend, a very "boooyah" moment.

Locke is a conundrum even to himself at times .

I thought Locke was acting very in character this episode. Jack was the one that was very close to snapping. He complains that he has to be a leader then gets pissed when others make decisions without him. He encouraged Sayid to torture Sawyer but all of a sudden is disgusted by Sayid torturing someone else. Jack used to be one of my favorites but he's heading downhill fast. He reacts angrily without thinking things through. Not very doctor-like.

I didn't see that as whining...I saw that as Locke saying:

"You did what you thought needed to be done without consulting me....now I'm doing what I think needs to be done without consulting you."

That's how I see it. Jack doesn't respect Locke at all dispite the fact Locke offers good advice 99% of the time. Locke can't trust him because Jack can't see Locke's points or doesn't care to see them.
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I laughed out loud when Jack told Locke to 'shut up.' He sounded like a teenage girl (no offense to the teenage girls out there.) Either that, or they sound like a married couple. I think Locke is more interested in gathering information and forming a strategy before making a move and Jack just wants to go out and shoot some island hillbillies. Locke is against anything that's going to risk lives without having a formulated plan. I think he regards Henry Gale as a fountain of knowledge, and with that knowledge they can act on their feelings without it being an illogical, passion-fueled rumble. But, you know, I'm a Locke loyalist through and through.

Locke > Jack. Period.

Not that it has much bearing on the current discussion, but I wonder if Locke's war game hobby will come into play with the army. Either way, Locke and Sayid are the only ones I would trust to make any military decisions. I don't remember who all Locke told he was a box company sales manager, I know Boone was one. Locke has the look and skills of a seasoned veteran.