I've never been a Charlie fan. Recent episodes
made me rethink some, but after this episode
I've totally converted. The evil Charlie is a kick ***
new character. His screw u interaction with AL and
the pistol was funny as hell. He has a lot more depth now.

So I assume there are a lot of recent converts.
Any old Charlie fans now turned off by his new
attitude?

Mazel Tov Dumpy! :clapping: Just thought I'd stop in to say that when I read your post. As you probably know, I've been a Charlie fan through all the ups and downs and I can honestly saw you would have to search far and wide on tv to find a more complex character. *ducks to avoid the rotten tomatoes*.

I'll resist the urge to spread the Charlie love here but I will just say that I much prefer snarky, punky Charlie to "I won't leave you Claire" Charlie. Getting dumped by Claire was the best thing that has ever happened to him. He actually seems more confident now that he can totally be himself and doesn't have to be on his best behavior all the time. I've noticed reading on other boards too that a lot of viewers are coming back around to our bloody rock god. I thought he would have to redeem himself first for that to happen but it turned out all he needed was a bit of his old attitude and bravado back. He can stay dark as far as I'm concerned and that's okay by me.

I suspect this thread may be moved to the Charlie forum at some point. Stop by there any time you want to talk Charlie.

I wouldn't say that I'm converted, I always liked Charlie, but I must admit that I like him a lot more since he went this dark.... is that weird? :ermm: and I really enjoyed watching him in TWT :smile:

I have to admit, I've been a little not happy/not interested in charlie lately, but that whole scene with and and the 'bum/gun' converstation was wonderful... my second favorite scene to the 'got milk?' scene at the end...

I loved Charlie in this week's episode. I was getting a little tired of his patheticness, so it was fun to see him mouth off to A-L. I hope he keeps it up!

The writing was awesome this week. Especially when it came to Charlie, he got some great lines. I've always loved Charlie, but for some reason, I love him more. If that's even possible. I hope to expect more of this Charlie in future episodes to come.

Wee, a Charlie fan convert! :biggrin:

I'm biased cause I've always loved Charlie, but this week's snarky Charlie was great. I loved his one-liners.

I'll resist the urge to spread the Charlie love here but I will just say that I much prefer snarky, punky Charlie to "I won't leave you Claire" Charlie.
Amen. When his only role was to whine about not being on the 'A' team and play straight man to Hurley, I have to admit that I rued the wasted potential. I'm loving the developments with the character, though - Charlie and Henry were the two main redeeming qualities in this episode. The last four or five episodes have boosted him into my top four or five.


Getting dumped by Claire was the best thing that has ever happened to him.
Well, from our point of view, that's true, but I don't know about from his. I think he really needed some support and to belong somewhere, as a recovering addict. In fact, one of my gripes with Charlie's development is that, after all he's been through, he's apparently not back on the drugs. For some reason it seems like the writers don't want to tick off his fans or something by doing that, but we're supposed to believe that he's still enough of an addict to hoard the drug statues, but not enough of one to actually take refuge in the horse when his life starts coming apart? When Sawyer handed him that statue, I almost yelled, "Brilliant!" - when Charlie refused it, I felt a little deflated and cheated.

I prefer Charlie's "complicated" relationship with his heroin. And the fact that he was unjustly judged.

And I too am liking Snarky Charlie.

Ive always liked charlie. He's not my favorite...but not my least favorite. Just about the middle for me. I DO like the dark side...and I am glad he is back to his snarky comments. I hated his fake little family w/ claire & aaron. They werent even a couple. I like him better with out claire.

I like both Charlies the good boy with Aaron and the dark one with Sayid, but I do feel like he got the short end of the stick when Lock took out his anger on him. I do hope him and Claire get back together, but only after Charlie has had his time "alone" with Lock making a fool out of him. Thats just me though I hold grudges

Well, from our point of view, that's true, but I don't know about from his. I think he really needed some support and to belong somewhere, as a recovering addict. In fact, one of my gripes with Charlie's development is that, after all he's been through, he's apparently not back on the drugs. For some reason it seems like the writers don't want to tick off his fans or something by doing that, but we're supposed to believe that he's still enough of an addict to hoard the drug statues, but not enough of one to actually take refuge in the horse when his life starts coming apart? When Sawyer handed him that statue, I almost yelled, "Brilliant!" - when Charlie refused it, I felt a little deflated and cheated.

I understand because I also wanted him to actually do the drugs. I liked Charlie when he was sneaking off to take hits last season. But, I don't think they have him resist for the sake of the fans. I guess I have to admit that for people to really respect this character and root for him, he has to show that he has at least some strength. Giving in again to the heroin might be realistic, but it would take away what strength the character has. Plus, the struggle would be over because once you go back, then where do you go? On again, off again would get old too.


I prefer Charlie's "complicated" relationship with his heroin. And the fact that he was unjustly judged.

Well put. I think this is what makes it acceptable to me that Charlie has not used the heroin yet. Clearly, he still wants it around. It makes him feel safe, but he knows it would destroy him so he tries to resist. He told Jack he really wanted to use it and I believe him. I believe he was about to use it when Locke busted him in the jungle and took the statues away. If Locke had not been there, he absolutely would have used the drugs. It's that struggle that I find interesting. I know alot of people are sick of the heroin story but its such a part of who he is that I'm glad the drugs are still around out there somewhere and that therefore you know the issue will come up again for him.

I even wonder if Charlie took a statue or two from the stash when he helped himself to a gun. There were seven statues and you know Sawyer had at least one, but you don't know if he had all seven.

I understand because I also wanted him to actually do the drugs. I liked Charlie when he was sneaking off to take hits last season. But, I don't think they have him resist for the sake of the fans. I guess I have to admit that for people to really respect this character and root for him, he has to show that he has at least some strength.
Well, we saw that he had the strength to get off of the drugs in the first place. Not that he would have had much choice eventually, but he did burn the last of it, and made it through withdrawal without harming himself or anyone else. He also had the strength to resist for awhile even when he found the Nigerian stash. What's more, he's got the 'likeability factor' that gets the viewers to root for him - we know that he's not a mean person or a true 'villain', but a basically decent man battling ferocious demons. He makes us laugh sometimes.

Recently, though, he's been dumped by the person he needed most, unfairly accused, ostracized, humiliated, and beaten up. So self-centered a person as Charlie is bound to try and seek some kind of revenge, which we've seen - great! But I just can't buy the fact that he wouldn't give in to temptation, given all we know about his personality. In addition, I think it would make a juicier story if he went all the way back, and truly hit rock bottom, maybe even betrayed the group to the Others. (If he hasn't already - mighty suspicious how he knew about Henry and put himself in position to lead Sayid and Ana into a trap.)


Giving in again to the heroin might be realistic, but it would take away what strength the character has. Plus, the struggle would be over because once you go back, then where do you go? On again, off again would get old too.

Yeah, that's a point, he can only be redeemed so many times. I don't know where the writers are going with the 'Darth Charlie' subplot (but I'm sure enjoying the ride) - if he's going to end up 'warm and fuzzy' again or, as I said, reach a point of no return in his descent. But as long as they're taking him in this direction, I think the heroin abuse would be a logical part of it, and keep viewers like me engaged in the storyline. I think he can go on and off, at least a few times, as long as there's more to it than that, and Charlie's continuing struggle with the drug adds dimension to his character.

I'm gonna follow the Darth Charlie comments. First of all, I actualyl kind of like the new wup butt charlie instead of the baby whinny Charlie. While I don't know if I like Sayid's influence on Charlie (although I like Sayid), I always tend to favor and increase in the badassity of the characters, which Charlie seems to be evolving into. I get the chance that Charlie is toughening up, which I think has needed to happen ever since he was abducted.

I haven't become totally converted but I am liking this dark-side Charlie much better than the rather pathetic Charlie. I enjoyed his interaction with Ana and the gathering breakfast scene. I also like that they have moved him more into a center of action and away from that "happy little family" scenario.

Well, we saw that he had the strength to get off of the drugs in the first place. Not that he would have had much choice eventually, but he did burn the last of it, and made it through withdrawal without harming himself or anyone else. He also had the strength to resist for awhile even when he found the Nigerian stash. What's more, he's got the 'likeability factor' that gets the viewers to root for him - we know that he's not a mean person or a true 'villain', but a basically decent man battling ferocious demons. He makes us laugh sometimes.

There have definitely been other examples of Charlie's strength. One big one was choosing to have Sayid set fire to an open head wound rather than return to the camp without Claire's baby.


Recently, though, he's been dumped by the person he needed most, unfairly accused, ostracized, humiliated, and beaten up. So self-centered a person as Charlie is bound to try and seek some kind of revenge, which we've seen - great! But I just can't buy the fact that he wouldn't give in to temptation, given all we know about his personality.


Well, one thing is after alot of this happened, Charlie no longer had access to his drugs. If he had them after the Locke punchdown, he most likely would have used them. As far as after the con with Sawyer, I think at that point Charlie's desire for revenge was feuling his addiction. He made a point of telling Sawyer he didn't participate in the con for the drugs but to get back at Locke, a point he seemed proud of. But that doesn't mean he didn't take some of the drug statues anyway for that security he craves. Like we said, a complex relationship. Once he had gotten back at Locke, he may have already started to come back up to the point where he could go back to resisting the drugs.

But if you want to know a secret, in my heart of hearts I would like it if Charlie had taken the statues, left a few for Sawyer to find and is now secretly using again. Like the first time we discovered his secret stash when we thought he had only one, he could be stashing and/or using again and we don't know it yet. There was a time when I would have said no way, but with this new dark Charlie, and after I was so totally fooled when he revealed that stash the first time, I would say anything is possible now. We'll just have to wait and see.


In addition, I think it would make a juicier story if he went all the way back, and truly hit rock bottom, maybe even betrayed the group to the Others. (If he hasn't already - mighty suspicious how he knew about Henry and put himself in position to lead Sayid and Ana into a trap.)


That may still happen. But as for Henry, for some reason this is one of those things many people are commenting on, such that they seemed to have forgotten the final scene in One of Them. Sayid sat down with Charlie and told him all about the man in the hatch that Rousseau found and Sayid beat badly, convinced he is one of them. I don't know why so many people have forgotten that and are all saying, how did Charlie know about Henry. Sayid told him everything because Charlie was the one person who would understand. Charlie is not working with the Others.

Yeah, that's a point, he can only be redeemed so many times. I don't know where the writers are going with the 'Darth Charlie' subplot (but I'm sure enjoying the ride) - if he's going to end up 'warm and fuzzy' again or, as I said, reach a point of no return in his descent. But as long as they're taking him in this direction, I think the heroin abuse would be a logical part of it, and keep viewers like me engaged in the storyline. I think he can go on and off, at least a few times, as long as there's more to it than that, and Charlie's continuing struggle with the drug adds dimension to his character.

If he returns to drug use, I'll be right there with you enjoying the ride. :smile:

I think it would be interesting if there is an all out Other attack but Charlie isn't around to help fight because he's off somewhere getting high.

There have definitely been other examples of Charlie's strength. One big one was choosing to have Sayid set fire to an open head wound rather than return to the camp without Claire's baby.

Yes, great example. The fact that he ever leaves the beach after the close brush with death he had speaks to his courage also.

That may still happen. But as for Henry, for some reason this is one of those things many people are commenting on, such that they seemed to have forgotten the final scene in One of Them. Sayid sat down with Charlie and told him all about the man in the hatch that Rousseau found and Sayid beat badly, convinced he is one of them. I don't know why so many people have forgotten that and are all saying, how did Charlie know about Henry. Sayid told him everything because Charlie was the one person who would understand. Charlie is not working with the Others.

:doh: You're right. I completely forgot about that scene, thanks. I blame ABC! It's been so long since that episode aired because of all these blankety-blank reruns! Anyway, that does weaken my Charlie-as-traitor theory, although I still think it would be a cool development. As I (now) recall, that scene was very ambiguous and left Sayid's motivation for coming to Charlie up in the air. Now they are hanging out and building stuff. Interesting...


If he returns to drug use, I'll be right there with you enjoying the ride. :smile:

I think it would be interesting if there is an all out Other attack but Charlie isn't around to help fight because he's off somewhere getting high.
He's already killed his quota. :smile:

I really like the darkside Charlie. I was never a big Claire/Charlie fan. Those two didn't seem to have any chemistry. I *do* however like Charlie as a sidekick with Sayid. Frankly, I'm surprised to see more folks buddying up. Its only natural in times of crisis for groups to form.

~F

Dark Charlie is definitely more interesting than Charlie with Claire. But I think that we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg with him. Charlie almost seemed gleeful when the balloon wasn't where Henry said it would be on the map.He wants to see Sayid get revenge but I think that he going to be living through Sayid if it happens. Charlie is not yet satisfied with the revenge that was taken on Locke. Afterall it couldn't be public where he could gloat in it or rub it in on Locke.Even when Ana said something about Locke and Jack being concerned only with Jack and Locke Charlie smirked( it was more than the comment being funny -- there was maliciousness in his response). I love Charlie -- always have but I do like the snarky Charlie better.

When Sawyer handed him that statue, I almost yelled, "Brilliant!" - when Charlie refused it, I felt a little deflated and cheated. I know what you mean... I would have felt that way too, except that Charlie has lied so convincingly about the drugs all along, that I don't know what to believe. I don't think the fact that he refused the statue tells us anything, one way or the other.

In F+W when he told Locke he had gone out to destroy the stash I didn't believe it. When he told Jack at the end that he hadn't used, I wasn't sure whether to believe him or not. And when he told Sawyer that if he wanted the drugs he would have taken them before he told Sawyer where they were, my first thought was "I bet he did just that." At least, I hope so!


But if you want to know a secret, in my heart of hearts I would like it if Charlie had taken the statues, left a few for Sawyer to find and is now secretly using again. Like the first time we discovered his secret stash when we thought he had only one, he could be stashing and/or using again and we don't know it yet.
That could explain why he was more like his old snarky self this episode. I thought he seemed pretty relaxed, considering everything that's going on.

That could explain why he was more like his old snarky self this episode. I thought he seemed pretty relaxed, considering everything that's going on.
Reminds me of something I read in another board... something along the line of "Charlie must be back on the smack because he is amusing again".

But I don't think so. The guy is spending a lot of time with the most perceptive guy on the island... and I trust Sayid better judgment - he would not ally himself to someone who is using. Also, he spent an entire day on the trek. You would think that Sayid and Ana would notice something odd about him he was “back on the smack”.

But I don't think so. The guy is spending a lot of time with the most perceptive guy on the island... and I trust Sayid better judgment - he would not ally himself to someone who is using. Also, he spent an entire day on the trek. You would think that Sayid and Ana would notice something odd about him he was “back on the smack”.

Not necessarily. Charlie's pretty good at hiding it and he was out on his own in the morning collecting papayas. They can't keep tabs on each other every second, people sleep, people go to the "bathroom".

I'm not saying I think he's using only that Charlie's fooled everyone before and the only one who figured it out the first time was Locke. He's pretty high functioning when he's using that by his behavior it wouldn't be that obvious. I just wouldn't put it past him or be surprised. I believe he wasn't using up until recently, but he very well could have taken the statues back.

I haven't become totally converted but I am liking this dark-side Charlie much better than the rather pathetic Charlie.
Me too. Dark Charlie is much better than pathetic, "look-at-me" Charlie. I know I have a long, long way to go before I'm converted but I think it's possible. I want to be converted because I think it would make my Lost viewing experience and time on this board more enjoyable if I liked the character since he has a strong fan following here.

Maybe it's a weakness in my own character, but I just can't stand needy, whiney, childish adults (especially men -it's an immediate turn off even if they look like Brad Pitt). And these are the characteristics that have been written into the Charlie character since the Pilot. One think that others seem to like about him that I hate is his smart-alec snarkiness. He just seems so childish to me and can't pull it off the funny snarky line like other characters did/do such as Sawyer or Shannon.

If they teamed up Charlie with my favorite character Sawyer, I think I would come to like Charlie a heck of a lot more. Characters like Jack seem to blow Charlie off and treat him like a child which only lowers Charlie's credibility in my mind. Sayid is respecting Charlie right now but that seems odd to me.

I like Charlie as he is the only English character BUT..... He is giving England a bad name though, abduction (Sun) (Baby Aaron), smack head, lies out his arse, gone crazy (DREAMS) he moans a lot like a little girl as well. then again he reflects us ENGLISH quite well, LOL :)

I like good and bad Charlie. :D I like it when he is 'trying' to be good but then I like it when he just snarks for the sake of snarking. :D If they make him 'good' again I hope they drop the whine and leave us the snark!

As far as the drugs go...I have an idea that perhaps he's not 'using' at the moment but will go back at any time if the situation is extreme. For example he gets back to camp and finds Sun is pregnant. The idea that he was dragging a pregnant woman around and scaring her to death might play on his conscience and send him 'over the edge' so to speak and back to using. Hey..if he is using he probably won't even notice or care if Jin beats him up. :D

I've never been a Charlie fan. Recent episodes made me rethink some, but after this episode I've totally converted. The evil Charlie is a kick *** new character. His screw u interaction with AL and the pistol was funny as hell. He has a lot more depth now.

I really dispised Charlie up until The Whole Truth ep. I believe his buddying up with Sayid might be the best thing for him right now. He's back in with a group that has a purpose. If they continue on this course, I can see real potential for his character and hopefully the companionship will keep him off the stuff.

I always liked the character Charlie. But i liked it when he was with Hurley than when he is with Sayid now.

I've never despised Charlie or any of the characters for that matter. I've always pretty much had a take him or leave him attitude. Although, I do love the scenes with Hurley and Charlie. Especially the scene when they are trying to fish. That's one of my favorite of the two of them. Also, the scene where Charlie is trying to calm down Aaron and is singing. Heck, I guess there are a lot of funny Charlie scenes. However, he has irritated me with his attitude toward Claire and how she cares for Aaron. It's not like he know any more about raising a child.

I found it kind of funny by this episode. Charlie did something that pretty much makes everyone hate him on the island. Yet he knows almost everything going on on the. He helped Sawyer in "TLC" and in this episode he's helping find Fenry's balloon. I wondered why? Then I thought, maybe it's because people were thinking, "Well, i'll get Charlie, whose he gonna tell?". Maybe, I don't know. Just odd.

It's not like he know any more about raising a child.

That we know of .....

The thing about that is though even Claire admitted he was right. We all much preferred Locke's method of dealing with her in those scenes...but we also have to take into account Charlie was grouchy because of the pressure of having the heroin around. Not an excuse but it probably explains why he was so brusque and abrupt with her...and everyone else around him as well.

That of course isn't an excuse to 'like' him. Annoying is annoying no matter what the reason might be.