This may sound out there and may be reading too much into something, but...

On my second viewing of the episode, I noticed that the box that Kate picked up out of the food supply crate had the words "Macaroni and Cheese Supper". Now on the face of it, this seems pretty innocuous, but in my experience, the word "Supper" is a pretty regionalized word and really only used in the Midwestern US.

And beyond that, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find the word anywhere in your local grocery store, regardless of where you live. Just for reference, look at a box of Kraft Mac & Cheese...it says "Macaroni and Cheese Dinner".

Now, what does this mean? Probably nothing, but I thought that it might be a clue about a couple of things...First, it might tell us something about the company that DHARMA is getting to produce this stuff...Or secondly, it could tell us a little bit more about DHARMA and where it might be located in the US/world.

I know that I might be reaching on this, but I'm interested to hear what you think.

This was a good catch. Can we get a screen shot, if there isnt one on the board somewhere?

I Agree with the whole supper thing being midwest.

I grew up in Iowa and dinner was used for interchangably for an evening meal or a fancy lunch. But, supper was the evening meal.

I am down in Florida now and saying supper draws a few chuckles from friends. (i say cupboards also, as opposed to cabinets in the kitchen, but that is a whole nuther story.)

The strange thing is, I don't recall ever seeing the coloquial term used on a box of say Mac and Cheese.

An earlier forum mentioned the use of the term "Theatrical Glue" as opposed to Spirit Glue or Spirit Gum, on the bottle found in the med hatch.

Not everything revolves around United States terms for food, remember Hanso was not American, there are also people from different countries on the island

Agreed, DublinLad. I use the term, it's common in England.

Good Call Dublin dude!

I would think that a company like Dharma woudl have boxes/labels for all of its foodstuffs printed by some source. If that source is in another country which happens, then mayeb they call the evening meal supper.

1st learning oppoortunity for this thread:

I have not seen Mac and Cheese boxes from any other country. I know they would be in whatever langauge is predominate in that country, but would the words translate to DINNER or SUPPER?

2nd Learning opportunity:

In an English speaking countrys, i.e. England, is the evening meal called Dinner or Supper?

---

(EDIT: as I posted, Fickle had already posted so that is cool-- Supper is common in England. So modified question, does the word "supper" appear on advertising and such? or is it regional like in USA?)

Supper generally refers to a smaller evening meal later than dinner/tea/whatever the 'main meal' is called, though it's often a personal distinction - it can refer to the main evening meal as well. There probably are regional ties to its usage, but despite being a Linguistics student, i'm not in a position to look it up right now :smile:. As for its use on advertising/products, it really depends on what the product is. It does happen, but it's not so common that I can think of an example.

Thanks Dublin for providing some more context on where this word is used throughout the world. I didn't mean to imply in my original post that this was purely an "American" word.

I've just gotten the same weird looks that Rolland has gotten because of my Midwestern upbringing, so when I see those things they just jump out at me. It'd be the same thing if I saw the word "Pop" on a soda bottle sitting in the hatch.

I live in the North-eastern US (a place called NY) and many people use dinner and supper interchangeably - pretty much depends on nothing - I use both words but dinner seems more used by some people. As far as the labeling goes, I've seen it as Macaroni and Cheese, Cheese and Macaroni, Cheesey Macaroni, etc.. not sure that either name makes any difference. I tend to think that box was just the prop of choice to show it was a food drop.

For some reason, I tend to think of "dinner" as the content (the actual food), as in "Macaroni and Cheese Dinner", whereas "Supper" is the event itself (the evening meal)...As in "The Last Supper", not "The Last Dinner". It seems like "to sup" means "to eat"....:)

Good input folks, Thanks! I do soemtimes forget about the show being on world wide, not anything against the world, I just forget.

Frosty: I would laff if I saw POP on a can in the hatch or anywhere else for that matter, (always makes me think of Shasta's old commercials. "I wanna POP [echo] I wanna SHASTA- SHASTA!)

Pack- I agree the Mac and Cheese thing, makes for a quick easy reference to long shelf life foodstuffs.

As for threads this is proably the least mind racking and non-stressful one i have read in a few...

Still makes one wonder, all the foodstuffs we have seen are 'generic packaged' Dharma Brand. Except: Appolo Bars.

Most grocery stores offer store brand products that are packaged in 'its brand name' packaging. The items themselves are made in a plant that would produce for more than one store tho. I guess Darhma could buy brand name foodstuffs from the same production facility as "Publix" or "Hy-Vee" or "Walmart". (I don't know any names of generic stores in other countries, sorry)

******** Another thing it makes me think of tho is the MRE's (Meals Ready to Eat) we used in the military. They were all genericaly packaged in plain olive drab wrappers with names like "Steak, Salisbury, One Each" or "Macaroni and Cheese Dinner". But we did get "Hershys" Choclate bars... Hmmmmmmm

Well, the DeGroots were from Michigan.

Not everything revolves around United States terms for food,

.....um, yes it does.....didn't you get the memo?

just "winding you up" DublinLad....that's what the Irish say. see, i'm an american and i know something about other countries. like take curry chips for example: i know some of the finest curry chips can be had in Dublin. if the box said "curry chips" we'd know the box came from the Ireland/UK region....or that little chip shop off of Clontarf rd. (?) i used to eat at.

i still think the choice of word is suspect. regardless if it's common in a lot of places, it doesn't appear like that too often (from what i've seen)...especially on a box of generic food rations....there for a reason, (geographic?) even if a very small reason.
JR

I'm glad that I could provide a respite from all the deep thinking that's going on these days.:smile:

Not to say that I actually believe that this "supper" thing is a huge clue or anything, but wouldn't it be just like TPTB to drop something small (but significant) like this in the middle of an episode where so much else is going on.

And for Rolland...Shasta rules...lol!

Not everything revolves around United States terms for food, remember Hanso was not American, there are also people from different countries on the island



I agree if you get fish and chips in england it's well known thats its called a fish and chip supper (well atleast where i am).

In Engerland, we say supper

Off topic here, is an American Hungry Man XXL any good, you know the one with "more than one pound of food!"

Dumb question but is peanut butter a universal constant? I know many Australians came on board and protested that there were, contary to what Claire said..LOTS of Australians who loved peanut butter. So is it around in other countries...

I always thought of it as a thing where the taste was aquired in childhood....

Supper is also common in Australia, how common it is on labels I'm not sure but when I hear 'supper' said in a sentence the first thing I think of isn't America its Britain for sure...it's a very British word.

edit: and you get curry chips here too and yes there are stacks of people who love peanut butter in OZ but I'm not one of them!!

Not to say that I actually believe that this "supper" thing is a huge clue or anything, but wouldn't it be just like TPTB to drop something small (but significant) like this in the middle of an episode where so much else is going on.


agreed. and i think the whole american thing is what they were going for.

i'm assuming the bulk of the viewers are american. so i would assume that the bulk would find "supper" on that box to be odd, OR they would have grown up using it and felt it odd because it's not used a great deal.

if you're European, you'll find it is used in and around where you're from...and that's probably the clue. small, probably insignificant, yet ultimately has a purpose.

JR

I am from Virginia, and say Supper, my hubby however is from Washingtong State and HATES when I use the word! He thinks it is sooo country, so I try to say dinner from now on! I agree that it isn't a word that anyone would put on a box in the store! Who knows, I wonder if we are supposed to read too much into this?

I actually like the parallel to military food. I wondered myself why Apollo bars are the only branded food in the hatch. Even Boone had one when they first crashed. Why not Dharma Initiative Chocolate Bar? It's true military food comes in generic packaging but many people have seen images of the GIs giving out Hershey bars. That and the US Army knife Ana found on one of the Others makes me wonder who had the military background in the organization?

I wonder if we are supposed to read too much into this?

we (I) already have by talking about it this much.

JR

Peanut Butter as a universal comstant, like the speed of light?

JK

I realize that there are so many different cultural foods out there. It is easy to forget that what I take for granted may not even be a common food elsewhere.

As an added escape from reality to the show this board is fun.... Honky made me laff just now...

I tried vegmite once.....once....

So another question: If the food/playing cards/medicines are labeled per station, might we see some "Flame Hot Sauce! [Careful it BURNS] " or "Pearl Oyster Stew"????

Good question.

Talk to much about any detail? Its not possible..at least not since I've been a member of the 'lage'. :D

My parents say supper. They are 'mountain' people. I say dinner. I didn't grow up in the mountains.

I thought the things were called "Kraft dinners' in Canada? The things they used to throw at the Barenaked Ladies when they were onstage? (That was a group of fully clothed very talened Canadian MEN btw so don't get excited :D) We just called them Mac and Cheese.

And I thought I was the only one who found it odd that they used the word "supper" and not "dinner."

And.. the deal with the Apollo bars.. someone said that it could be a military thing because you always see soldiers handing out hershey bars to kids! Well, my hubby was in Iraq for a LONG time.. and they didn't have heshey bars (because they were in the desert and all chocolate melts in TWO seonds flat) but they did have Skittles. I did notice in ONE episode that Hurley mentioned that the chocolate bar didn't melt. Seems to me that the chocolate would melt with the islands temperature, unless it was a special bar that Dharma made tha wouldn't melt. This would stand to reason why there is only ONE kind of candy bar on the island!

I didn't actually expect to foster so much discussion from my first post. I was just happy to have noticed something that hadn't already been dissected ten times over.

Anyway, I think it's been pretty well established that supper is not just a term used in the US.

But maybe we can get at this from the macaroni and cheese angle. Does anybody know if macaroni and cheese is sold and has popularity outside of the US? Because if it's primarily a US food, then that together with the word "supper" might enable us to narrow down where this food is coming from.

To keep this one going...if only cause its one of the few threads that hasn't hurt my brain or ticked me off...

I'm from the deep south and here we say "supper" for a big, late afternoon or early evening meal. "Dinner" is used for the regularly scheduled final meal of the day.

In the case of the mac-n-cheese, I agree with those who think perhaps it was packaged in another country and somehow "dinner" was translated into "supper".

it's an interesting thread because it involves learning about different cultural aspects of the various countries or regions that everyone is from.

it's not just someone presenting a ridiculous theory only to have someone bitchily put them down.

you actually learn something about someone else, all the while still discussing the show.....sorry to get "up with people" (i think that's just an american thing) on everyone, but a good read without all the drama is nice sometimes.

JR

People in England and the whole of Britain use supper as a word for dinner.

do you really think this is a clue? something that was put there intensionally? it seemslike an obscure way to give a hint to the audience.

Okay, my turn ...

Where I grew up, a carbonated beverage was called a "coke" despite the brand. For example, "What kind of coke do you want?" "Pepsi." "OK"

The noon meal was refered to as both "lunch" and "dinner." The evening meal was "supper" and it occured at "Dinner time." For example, "Come on kids, its dinner time ... come and eat your supper."

However, if it was fancier than usual and then it was refered to as "dinner." "Let's all go out for dinner tonight?"

As much as I want to believe that the labeling was a clue (the camera did linger on the box for more than the usual one to two seconds), I think we are making to much of this.

I'm from Scotland and we use the word 'supper' - a lot!!

:smile:

In fact, as well as using it to refer to a late evening snack/meal - if you go for a take away meal at one of our greasy 'chip shops' - (our chips are your fries.......). any meal you get with chips is called a 'Supper'.
eg you would ask for a 'fish supper', a 'pizza supper' etc.

Did the macaroni cheese have chips with it?! he he!

Think you are DEFINITELY reading too much into this......!!

Funny you should mention Coke....same way around here when I was growing up. EVERYTHING was Coke. Never heard "pop" till I was in the military.

do you really think this is a clue? something that was put there intensionally? it seemslike an obscure way to give a hint to the audience.

sure, because it lets us know that the food is being named and packaged in europe or somewhere thereabouts.

i don't think it's a HUGE clue or anything....i just think it's a less obvious way of telling us where it's from then say using "colour" other than "color."

all this talk of chips is making me hungry.

JR

I agree that the chances of this actually being a hint are remote. I just thought it might be a fun topic for discussion.

When I was growing up we called it pop. Then I moved to Texas, said the word "pop" and got more than a few chuckles from my friends. I quickly learned that in Texas, it's "coke", regardless of the brand.

Anyway, back on topic...

Does anyone know whether mac and cheese is eaten or has any popularity outside of the US? It might help determine if the word "supper" is applying internationally.

we don't get mac and cheese here i don't think (you're not referring to MacDonalds i assume?) ... so can't help with that one.

Do agree to this being a fun topic though - would be amused if there was something in it!
:biggrin:

Dumb question but is peanut butter a universal constant? I know many Australians came on board and protested that there were, contary to what Claire said..LOTS of Australians who loved peanut butter. So is it around in other countries...

I always thought of it as a thing where the taste was aquired in childhood....

i had peanut butter on toast about half an hour ago....mmmm. gooey. i used to hate is as a kid tho.

i sometimes use supper as a snack before bed too, i usually call dinner 'tea' (not to be confused with cups of).

maybe TPTB just thought it would be cute to have 'supper' instead of 'dinner' and it doesnt mean any more than that

I grew up where we called the meal supper.. but the time was dinner! I also grew up saying "soda" and "coke" even if it wasn't COKE wasn't the specific brand we were talking about! My hubby says Dinner... and NEVER heard it called supper until me! He however calls coke and soda "POP." I laughed sooo hard the first time I heard him say "Where is a pop machine?" I was like.. WHAT?? Sooo funny how different words stand for different things in different parts of the world!

I never used the word 'coke' generically. I'm from Virginia btw..and never called it 'pop' either. We always called them 'soft drinks'.

I think its a funny touch by the TPTB. Supper, from an American understanding, seems more formal than dinner.

Mac and cheese is good food, but its far from formal. I just cannot see those words together.

Maybe its an oxymoron like "military intelligence" or something. :biggrin:

So, pretend you are on the Island.... and you get food drop with a box of Mac and Cheese Supper.

What else would you hope to find?

I would love to see them find a nice bottle of Jack or Jim to go with some of the "Nozz-a-la Soda" that is bound to be in the stash. I jsut wonder if they would call it Dharma Brand Sour Mash Whiskey?

(the Nozz-a-la is a Dark Tower reference. another much loved [by me] tale that racked my brain...)

Can you imagine when they team got the drop with the new WASHER AND DRYER?

"I am not carrying it you carry it!"

But seriously, when I was 12 and moved back to Iowa... it took me forever to figure out why we were having DINNER at 1pm... In southern Californina DINNER was always what we called the supper that we went out for... to like a restaraunt. Supper was at home.

Then they really messed me up with SUNDAY BRUNCH!

Well, it's not British usage, because (at least from what I've seen when over there) in the UK they tend to just call it "macaroni cheese" instead of "macaroni AND cheese".

As for myself, being Canadian and accustomed to generically referring to all boxed mac'n'cheese as "Kraft Dinner", I immediately just assumed they'd put 'supper' instead of 'dinner' so as not to step on any product copyright toes, LOL.


P.S. And we call it "pop" here! Anything else sounds odd to me.

Is it Kraft Macaroni and Cheese or Kraft Cheese and Macaroni?


Who effin' cares, man.

...that is all.

Well, it's not British usage, because (at least from what I've seen when over there) in the UK they tend to just call it "macaroni cheese" instead of "macaroni AND cheese".

As for myself, being Canadian and accustomed to generically referring to all boxed mac'n'cheese as "Kraft Dinner", I immediately just assumed they'd put 'supper' instead of 'dinner' so as not to step on any product copyright toes, LOL.


P.S. And we call it "pop" here! Anything else sounds odd to me.


I grew up in Milwaukee Wisconsin and always called it soda.

For some reason we called a drinking water fountain, the "bubbler". Don't know why. Let's see TPTB use that one! LOL! - Jeffer1965

So what's the cultural confusion here? Mac 'n cheese is totally American! It's the "new world" version of Fettucine Alfredo--meaning, a substandard substitute. Like Wonder Bread and Velveeta, it's straight out ofthe WASP mid-west.

So the DeGroots brought the U Michigan cafeteria cook along with them to the "communal research center" on the island. Knowing that such a simple meal should never have been referred to as a "dinner" in the first place, s/he corrected Kraft's blatantly commercial hyperbole for all time in her/his small world.

Definitely a regional tip-off. How important? Not sure.

BTW in NYC we say "soda" for all carbonated beverages and of course it's pronounced sode-err like on a Sopranos episode. Didn't hear the "pop" thing until i traveled to Canada in '78.

Frosty: I would laff if I saw POP on a can in the hatch or anywhere else for that matter, (always makes me think of Shasta's old commercials. "I wanna POP [echo] I wanna SHASTA- SHASTA!)

I am sooooooo laughing at this! Gotta go find my Jordache jeans!

You know, all this talk about Apollo bars (and I hope I'm not re-hashing an old topic) has me wondering: how exactly did Boone snack on an Apollo bar in an early episode if they hadn't opened the Hatch yet? I don't remember the episode in question, but did it come off the plane? And are we to assume that it was somewhat of a normal brand in the Lost universe? I would guess no, since I think when Kate first found it she was puzzled as to what it was...

Just another random thought in this increasingly random thread ;)

I thought maybe they used "supper" to avoid ticking off the people at Kraft. And did anyone else ever think it was strange that they call it "dinner" when mac and cheese is usually served as a side dish, not main course?

I thought maybe they used "supper" to avoid ticking off the people at Kraft. And did anyone else ever think it was strange that they call it "dinner" when mac and cheese is usually served as a side dish, not main course?


I think by calling it "dinner" the Kraft(y) folks were hoping to superimpose the lofty status that their tasty dish deserves onto what had heretofore been considered a mundane side.....:D:D:D:D

I grew up in New York, and use the word 'supper' much more often than the word 'dinner' when I speak about that meal. Everyone in my family background is from New York so there were no other regional influences.

Ok so I was looking at ascreen cap of the BOX of SUPPER.

It is quite large. Larger than the Extra Large Kraft Mac and Cheese Dinner.

So maybe it is a size thing?

Like a dinner feeds 3-4 and a supper feeds 6-8?

Yeah that is it.

Oh and someone asked about Hungry Man XXl's meals. They are an acquired taste.

And for those of you who maybe spent a few years living on the ruff in college or on some low pay, you might remember when MAC AND CHEESE with PEANUT BUTTER sandwiches was a SUPPER!

Hot Dogs too, if you had a few more Shasta cans to return to the store for your deposit back. (5 cents a can in Iowa, the DeGroots in MIchigan got 10 cents.)

I'm too high class for that now. I go straight to the Easy Mac.

I cannot believe the interest that this thread has generated! One word on a box and everyone goes crazy! :)

From the time I've spent living in London, I can tell you that "dinner" and "supper" are used pretty much interchangably nowadays, though "dinner" technically implies a more formal meal (ie, we would have "Sunday Dinner" - turkey, veg, roast potatoes, etc) and "supper" for like a takeaway ... though it's not a set-in-stone thing anymore, you can use them interchangeably.

I would guess that the Dharma products are probably manufactured in and shipped from Australia/NZ or SouthEast Asia (being the two closest industrialized areas to Mystery Island). Both of those areas use British English (as does most of the rest of the world, save America), so "supper" doesn't really seem that odd at all.

And for the record, on behalf of all college students everywhere, not every student lives on Mac & Cheese and Peanut Butter! No thank you!

I from the south, born in ATL, Ga but parents kidnapped me and trucked us all to N.kakalaka when I was eight. We usually had supper even though urybody new it was dinner. As far as Mac & cheese out of a box, well no self respecting southerner messes with that. If there is one, I doubt Dharmas distrubution center is in the US anywhere.

I thought the things were called "Kraft dinners' in Canada? The things they used to throw at the Barenaked Ladies when they were onstage? (That was a group of fully clothed very talened Canadian MEN btw so don't get excited ) We just called them Mac and Cheese.
If I had $1000000 we wouldn't have to eat Kraft Dinner, but we would. We'd just eat more! ;)

However, if it was fancier than usual and then it was refered to as "dinner." "Let's all go out for dinner tonight?"
This is usually how it was for me growing up as well, especially when I stayed with my grandparents. My husband often jokes with me about my use of "supper".

You know, all this talk about Apollo bars (and I hope I'm not re-hashing an old topic) has me wondering: how exactly did Boone snack on an Apollo bar in an early episode if they hadn't opened the Hatch yet? I don't remember the episode in question, but did it come off the plane? And are we to assume that it was somewhat of a normal brand in the Lost universe? I would guess no, since I think when Kate first found it she was puzzled as to what it was...
Hmmm, which episode was that when Boone ate the Apollo bar? Maybe Boone, like Hurley in "The Whole Truth" if he was telling the truth, found the food in the jungle?

Id have to disagree. We say "supper" in the south and I am teased mercilessly by everyone I know from around the states and globe....

I NOTICED THAT TOO!!, im glad im not the only one

Hmmm, which episode was that when Boone ate the Apollo bar? Maybe Boone, like Hurley in "The Whole Truth" if he was telling the truth, found the food in the jungle?


It was one of the first from Season 1....he offered it to Shannon, and she, mimicking our favorite four-legged friend, said she would wait for the rescue boat.:biggrin::biggrin:

yeah, I'm not sure if it's a big clue because you can't trace the word supper to one exact region, unlike the drink 'screech'.